Alex Ferrari 0:00
So before we get started today, guys, I wanted to let you know that this is one of these interviews that you really got to strap in because it is going to break your notion of reality. It's going to break your notion of the soul of why we're here and what we're doing. It is one of those powerful, powerful, powerful conversations that are so profound that it changes you on a deep, deep level. So sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Panache. Is everything is happening right now? Is everything already done?

Panache Desai 0:35
One of the things that we've become entangled in is time. This illusion of time. You and I, as people that are watching this, as next-level souls, what we have to do is see beyond all this stuff. The moment you become aware of the fact that you're in it, you're free of it. The purpose of suffering is to show us where we are not aligning with the broader will, or the greater will, or the grander will of the design that's happening.

Alex Ferrari 1:00
But what happens when you're with a partner and you wake up before they do, or maybe they're not even meant to wake up in this lifetime? How do you deal with it, even though you still love them?

Panache Desai 1:12
And all I would like to share, in my humble opinion, is that the person.

Alex Ferrari 1:26
I like to welcome back to the show returning champion Panache Desai. How you doing, Panache?

Panache Desai 1:31
So good. That's a lot of pressure. It's good to be back. I love you. It's great to see you. You look wonderful, Alex. You look wonderful.

Alex Ferrari 1:37
Well, I appreciate that. That's very kind of you, my friend. So listen, our last conversation-it screwed me up in a beautiful way. It made me read. It screwed me up, man. I remember afterwards, I was just like, "What the hell just happened to me? Like it was such a beautiful reframing of reality, and it. I love your perception, your perspective on things, and the way you frame it is. It's not that it's not exactly the way I have framed my own story. It's a. It's a framing of a story. It's a foundational story that I've created for myself to function in this reality, which is insane as a general statement. But I mean, it's just insane. This this is intoxicating. It's insane. This is crazy, in a beautiful, lovely way, and everything in between. But the way you frame your ideas, it's close enough to what my story is, but it's just looking at it from a different point of view, which is so beautiful, you know what I mean. Sound like it's complete. Like the night, the the sky is purple. I'm like, dude, the sky is not purple. The sky is blue. No, no, the sky is purple. No, it's it's blue. But look at it from over here, and is there a sky at all? What kind of thing is how our conversation is. So, um, I'm so excited to to get into it with you in this this conversation, my friend. So I'm going to throw you a really softball first question.

Panache Desai 3:07
Sure.

Alex Ferrari 3:08
About reality and the illusion of and the illusion we live in. Now we've discussed before that everything is going on at the same time, essentially. Correct? Like there is no past, there is no future. It is a construct of this reality of this linear, linear time that we're in. Yeah. So if everything is going, is everything is happening right now? Is everything already done?

Panache Desai 3:32
Yes. So think of it in terms of, and this, and I'll give you like a really easy kind of visual to to kind of wrap your head around this one. Just imagine that we're in a web, and this web consists of form, phenomenon, experiences. And as human beings, we've become enmeshed or entangled in this web. If you want to speak of it in terms of science, then maybe there's some quantum entanglement that we have with reality. Maybe we are this infinity, and what we identify with, we become enmeshed in or entangled in. One of the things that we become entangled in is time. This illusion of time, right? In spirituality, in certain circles, they talk about dimensionality, higher dimension, lower vibration, a shift in dimension. But really, where we are now, Alex, is a movement out of time, out of dimension, and out of all of these things. And here's what I mean by that. So just close your eyes for a moment. Just take some breaths, brother. And we're just going to get present to you, and everyone tuning in all over the world, just getting present to this notion of a web seated where you are, laying down, just becoming aware of your breath, and this web consists of what you call the matrix, the simulation, the Maya. What you call ego and identity is simply what you have resisted as a part of your experience of being a human being. So. Identity is just a manifestation of resistance in a resistance. So, Alex, what we're going to do is allow your light and your love through the power of your own acceptance. Because if you do anything with this, you just become further enmeshed in it, further entangled in it through the power of your acceptance, we're going to wholeheartedly accept the illusion itself, and the part of the illusion that we're going to accept, as it pertains to your question, is time. As we do this, we're going to begin to invite your infinite light, your love, your consciousness to begin to lift up and out of the web, all of a sudden it begins to lift up and out of this person, this identity that believed that you were called, Alex. It begins to lift out of that. Then it begins to lift out of your past, your time, your circumstances, your future, and everything in between. And then eventually, it begins to lift out of the web itself, until all of a sudden there is no Alex, there is no web, there is no attachment, there is no identification, there is just a pure potential, and this is really who you are. This is what you are, and this is where you are. Just continuing to rest in the awareness of your breath, and Alex, and all of you all over the world, just experiencing yourselves as the freedom, as the liberation, that you are the witnesser, the watcher, the observer, and just noticing that time doesn't exist here, duality doesn't exist here, separation doesn't exist here. There's just the infinity that you are, beloved. There is nothing else. Alex, just take some breaths and just let us know how you're doing or what you're experiencing.

Alex Ferrari 7:18
We're starting in hot, my friend. We came in hot to this conversation, I love it. So what I was seeing is I went straight in, and I have a fairly visual mind. So I, what I see is almost an entanglement, not as a web, but for whatever reason, fascia, kind of. If you know what I mean. So yeah, this entangling of fascia, which is a webby, but even more intense than a web, mixed in, and I actually saw myself lifting up. It's like this flat plane, but then as I lifted myself up, I see me like this, Alex. Yes, but then I lifted out of Alex as you were guiding that, and then all of a sudden, I see Alex. But then I look around, and at first I see a timeline because that's how I perceived reality. And I'm seeing all of my lives going backwards. Let's say, in my timeline, in all of my lives going in the future. And then what I saw was that it all turned into almost a circular. There was the line disappeared, and it turned into almost different realities or different stories being told all at the same time. So it was kind of like I see all my lives happening as the observer, and then I look up, and in the up, I just feel the love, and I'm like, you are not this. These stories, you are not these characters. You are not. This is an experience. This is a. I hate to diminish it by saying it's a game, but it's the only analogy that comes to mind is that video game. You are not Mario,

Panache Desai 8:56
Right

Alex Ferrari 8:57
You are not Donkey Kong. You know, you are the player, the observer watching it all. So that's what I that's what I felt right away.

Panache Desai 9:07
It's beautiful because it is a game, and you know the acceptance of what's going on in reality is the alignment of the personal world with the divine world. It's what all of your prophets, saints, sages, and messiahs have spoken of since the beginning of time. So the very second you begin to come into an acceptance of what's going on. You're outside of the game, right? And this is where attachment and identification are the root cause of all human suffering, because there's what's happening in life. You're suffering because of your attachment and identification to what's happening in your life. You're not suffering because of what's happening. Being human isn't going to stop anytime soon, and after a while, you realize that the more you expend expend this energy toward trying to have it be different or control it, or the more you get stuck in it, the more deeply entrenched you become in it, right? Because it becomes another aspect of identity, and what is identity? Identity or ego or creates itself is just a. Manifestation, the cumulative manifestation of our own resistance to what, to what's going on, to what's unfolding, to life. See, so everything that we're exploring and everything that most people are exploring pertains to the web. I've always been more interested in who we are beyond the confines of the web

Alex Ferrari 10:19
Because that's very that's very confining. It's a box. The web is a box. It's it's just it's essentially a stage or a movie screen. It is is very limited in in scale comparatively to everything else that's around us. So I I understand in concept in in in philosophy what you just said in regards to attachment of attachment and association with the illusion is the cause of suffering. But you and I love and I love what you're saying. Like if you detach from it, you're outside of the game.

Panache Desai 10:55
Right.

Alex Ferrari 10:55
But when things are happening to you, and now I'm being devil's advocate here, when things are happening to you in life. Exterior things happening to you is stress and people and and people screwing you over, people loving you, people all those things. That's that's something you could arguably detach from, not easily, but easier than the next thing I'm going to ask you. But when life is starting to hit you internally. Pains, sickness, illness, chronic pain-that's really much more difficult to detach from because it is inside of you. It's not outside of you. So, what do you have for those people who are sick, are or are in pain, or are things are happening to them on a physical level that they can't really attach to? At least that I can't. I can see. I mean, you can mentally. I am not here, but you know what I mean.

Panache Desai 11:52
No, I know exactly what you mean. So, I mean, we've been blessed enough now for like 1792 days to have people from all over the world come to call to calm, and you know, some of those people are going through cancer. Some of them are going through chronic pain, chronic illness. I mean, you know, real people living real lives. And see, the illusion is that the direct path is not taking into consideration what's happening in life. That couldn't be further from the truth. Actually, the direct path absolutely takes into consideration what's happening in your life, and that's exactly why you experience the freedom. So, so many people, Alex, have gone through cancer, chemo. You know, so many people have gone through physical pain and discomfort, emotional pain, psychological pain, trauma, all kinds of things. And what they've discovered actually is that their acceptance of what's going on inside of them in relationship to what's happening, alleviates the suffering. There's still the physical discomfort. There's still what you have to do on a daily basis to support your body. There's still the things that are unfolding as a part of your journey. Of course, there are, right? All I'm saying is that the acceptance of what's happening frees us of the need to suffer because it is happening, right? And in some cases, and you and I have both experienced this a lot. Right, is that sometimes it takes somebody to go through something at the level of their health, like that their mortality has to be challenged for them to finally wake up to the truth of who they are. And so, I think what we have to do a better job of as a spiritual community is to actually embrace the purpose of suffering. The purpose of suffering is to show us where we are not aligning with the broader will, or the greater will, or the grander will of the design that's happening. So when they say surrender, surrender doesn't mean just surrender to the parts that are wonderful and warm and fuzzy, like you're in a Care Bears movie and perpetually being hugged by Care Bears who are doing the Care Bear share perpetually with you every day. No, sometimes like you have to embrace some wild stuff, right? And you have to go through some really intense and challenging things, and that's okay. I think that we've been trying to solve challenging things when we don't need to solve challenging things, we need to actually wholeheartedly accept and embrace challenging things, because it is these challenging things that allows us to accept the powerlessness or the lack of agency that we feel in the moment, that then allows us to open up to the grace and allows us to come to peace with what's going on.

Alex Ferrari 14:20
This triggers a question in me in regards to challenging and suffering. I've kind of looking around have in my own life because I've had my own struggles and my own things that I've been dealing with and overcoming it. And throughout my life, we all it's life. We all go through stuff. But what I've noticed, and I started to really notice it is that we as a society have really given our power away to comfort, and comfort is and and there's look there's nothing wrong with being comfortable. It's we it's our right in many ways that we can. Comfortable to relax somewhere, relaxing in a hammock, something simple, sitting in a hammock, enjoying a cocktail if that's what you like, or a nice drink, or just enjoying the sun, or whatever that comfort is for you. Sitting and watching a movie, whatever that comfort is for you, it's okay. But I've just seen that comfort and convenience has overtaken humanity in the last 100 and I'd say 120 years, 150 years or so, because our lives are so drastically different than 100 years ago. Than when I was born or when you were born, it's so drastically different. It is, and as we become more and more convenient, and more convenience is brought in, and more comfort is brought in. We're losing something from our experience when we're there's people out. There's a Gen Z specifically. They're going back out and doing things that are not convenient, like renting a movie at a video store, getting physical media so they, which takes longer time and arguably not nearly as convenient or comfortable as streaming, but they're going back because they're searching for that thing. They're just like, I don't want to be disconnected anymore, and that's a small example as opposed to cutting your own wood to stock your fire so you can eat and cook that night-that's gone for many people around the world, and especially in Western civilization. And I'm not saying we have to go back to that, but there, there seems to be we seem to be lost in comfort and convenience, and we are. And we were joking about it before we came on. The invoice is coming. The invoice is coming because we don't move as much in our lives. Our bodies are not built for that because of convenience. So, what's your thoughts on that?

Panache Desai 16:49
No, that's beautiful, Alex, and and that's a wonderful sentiment well articulated because I feel like we're living in the era of fast food spirituality too. You know, talking about comfort and convenience. You know, it's about the consumption of content, and it's not really about being with who you are or embracing or accepting the parts of yourself that are uncomfortable. You know, I think that Alex, you and I are who we are today because we've experienced discomfort. You know, and I would like to think that when we have had an aversion to something, as much as it may be uncomfortable, we've been willing to to actually be with it and to to actually explore it and to open our hearts to it enough to where we begin to just uncover where where this aversion is coming from. And I think that what we've been sold is a bill of goods in the transformational space and the spiritual space that you're going to miraculously all of a sudden hit some panacea, and everything is going to be wonderful, and you're not going to be challenged ever again. And you know that nothing bad is ever going to happen, or nothing you know challenging is ever going to occur. And that just couldn't be further from the truth. And that's actually just a level of delusion that we have to overcome. What I've discovered is that life is still very much happening. There's still stuff. There's stuff happening in our bodies, in our lives, in the world. However, the freedom comes from recognizing that we can be at peace with what's going on, that we don't have to be at odds or in opposition to what's going on, and that is the promise of freedom. the The freedom is not in something changing or the eradication of everything that's uncomfortable to be with inside of ourselves, or the discomfort that we feel in the presence of others-that's not it. That goes back to this kind of reductionist model where we've got to get rid of things in order to be who we are. Right? For me personally, I think it's just more powerful to be equipped to be the human being that we are, and to be rendered capable to have our experience, regardless of what it is. Why? Because we're not living in the insanity that it could be different or that it should be different. We're just finally living in the truth that it's what's happening, and that we can, through the acceptance of the fact that it's happening, step out of this kind of fast food spirituality where it's just content, content, content, and actually cultivate an inner depth of spiritual wisdom that's our own that we live from, so that we can trust ourselves and trust our hearts.

Alex Ferrari 19:08
But Panache, that's so much work.

Panache Desai 19:10
It can be right. Well, it can be, but but the thing is that it's already happening. So so the work. So where's the work in it? Right. Like everything in your life is happening anyway. It's not like you have to go out and put yourself. I'm not asking you guys to go skydiving anytime soon. All I'm saying is, hey, life is doing a good enough job of capitalizing you. Life is the guru. Life is the shaman. Life is the healer. Life is the mystic. Life is the teacher. You don't need anything else. So, how about we lean into what life is showing us about ourselves? How about we, if we're going to say that we're conscious, well, then why don't we use our reality as an avenue and a mode and a medium through which we discover who we are, through which we discover what we are, right? And the first thing we have to do is become aware of the web, and where we're enmeshed or entangled in the web. The very second we start to do that. We start to unwind identity. We start to unwind this survival-based creative self, and then we find freedom. Then we find freedom in life. Then we find freedom beyond anything that I could ever articulate in words. What most of you experienced at the beginning of the call as a result of that brief meditation that we did, and that's really the point. You know, this this polarity, this duality of high vibration, low vibration, has really just gotten people stuck in in this notion that if they could only do something differently, something else would occur in their lives. But that just puts them at the at the at the happenstance of cause and effect again, right? It's like I have to do something in order to avoid something. No, beloved, you're going through what you're going through, and I get that it's hard, and I get that it's challenging, and probably taking every ounce of your energy to go through it. But you're going through it why? So that you can let go, so that you can focus on yourself, so that you can bring your attention, your energy, your resources back toward yourself, which is where they needed to be, so that you can realize that love and acceptance was never outside of you, that you had to prioritize yourself, you had to prioritize your time, you have to use your life as an avenue through which you devote yourself to the vessel and the vehicle that you are. That's why challenge occurs. That's why good people go through challenging things. It's why people who are on a path of being benevolent and being of service in the world go through calamities. They go through them. Why? Because it's where your your your spirituality becomes evidenced. It's the proving ground of where you are in yourself.

Alex Ferrari 21:44
It's a test. It's a test.

Panache Desai 21:46
It can be, yeah. But at the same time, it's it's not because there's no pass or fail. There's just suffering and not suffering.

Alex Ferrari 21:54
As as Ramdas says, if you think you're spiritual, then go spend a weekend with your family.

Panache Desai 21:58
Yeah, and and for most of you guys, right? Like you know, chronic pain. Wow, what a journey you've chosen. You know, a medical journey, a diagnosis. What a journey you've chosen. How courageous are you? Like, how how much do you want to know the truth of yourself that you're going through these things? And is it easy to go through? No, but you have to make it harder.

Alex Ferrari 22:22
That's beautiful. I never even thought about it that. I mean, I have thought about it that way, but you've just kind of brought it back into the light. Which is, I mean, I've heard so many times it was like when you see someone suffering or sleeping on the street or going through tough times. A lot. I forgot which mystic told me this, but they're like the cour the courage it takes to come into this life and incarnate through that that kind of trauma, that kind of struggle, it really does because it takes you to a place where you really need to discover who you are, what you're truly. It's a it's a difficult challenge. It's essentially it's like this life is the gym of the soul, and it depends on how much weight you want to push and how much you want to work out. It could be light, or it could be really, really, really difficult. And and that's exactly what we're going.

Panache Desai 23:15
Just just please don't forget that you decided to go to the gym and you enrolled in the gym membership.

Alex Ferrari 23:21
Right, and it's really difficult to cancel.

Panache Desai 23:24
Super hard.

Alex Ferrari 23:26
It's super hard. You have to go a lot of paperwork.

Panache Desai 23:28
This gym owner has some really stringent laws about how you cancel. That's a lot of fine print that you didn't read.

Alex Ferrari 23:33
A lot of fine print, man. It's a monthly membership. I tell you. I wanted to ask you. There, there seems to be right now so in so much insanity in the world, and and I I know that insanity is happening. It's been worse before, but we're able to see it so much clearer than we ever have as as a species. So times have been worse than they are now, but now we see so much happening around us, I mean, I just saw yesterday that there was an election in Germany, and for the first time since World War II, a far far right party won power. That first of all, terrifying because that never ends well, which when Germany's in that world, I mean, historically speaking, but that's one example. And there's there's examples of leaders like that throughout the world, different different countries, different companies. There seems to things, different organizations, religion, and so on. Everything seems to be absolutely going crazy right now. Why? Why? Because people are going to go, Panash. Why is this all happening? Why do we need to see all of this?

Panache Desai 24:47
I think that there is complete manipulation of the algorithm that you are experiencing, and a complete curation of the content. And sometimes, that what you have to realize you can't be naive about it is that sometimes the algorithm or curation of that content comes. From other powers in other countries that want you to be at odds with each other, so that's the first thing. Second thing is that throughout human history, rather than taking responsibility and accountability for ourselves, we've always blamed a subset of people or a group of people. It's very convenient to to make it about someone of a different race or a different socioeconomic background or a different gender, or a different sexual orientation, and that's not anything new. So what we're doing is we're just growing up, we're maturing. But you know, just like any child star who becomes famous, it's messy. You know, they're growing up in public, and you know, it's messy. It looks crazy. It's like, what's going on? We don't even understand this. Like, what is happening right now, and we're just that messy species. You know, we're just we're just going up in public, and you know, and and of course, when you observe this from a place of connection and oneness, it's just like it. Of course, it looks crazy. It doesn't make any sense because we all know what the answer is. We're all the same being. We're all the same soul. We're all the same light, love, and presence. Right. So it's this hyping up of the illusion. So I guess another way of saying it is that peak insanity is peak illusion, Alex. Right? Like the matrix. We're

Alex Ferrari 26:10
We're getting we're getting to peak insanity.

Panache Desai 26:12
Yeah, yeah. We're peak insanity, peak illusion, peak matrix. But at that point, doesn't that make it easier for you to come back to the truth of yourself, like isn't sanity then coming back to the wisdom of your own heart and your own agency and your own autonomy and the love that you are and advocating on behalf of that, and isn't that why it's happening? Maybe when TV devolved into reality television, that should have been an indicator as to where we were headed. All of a sudden, we moved away from storylines and content and stuff that actually was scripted and somewhat meaningful and had some creative essence to it, to all of a sudden just drama and being bombarded by drama and upset and whatever, right? So all of a sudden, television became fast food television. It's like you know, and in that same way, what's happening in the world is you and I, as people that are watching this, as next-level souls, what we have to do is see beyond all this stuff. This is why we have to really love each other. This is why we have to really love ourselves. It's why we really have to advocate on behalf of one another. It's why we have to advocate on behalf of the best for one another. Why? Because we're advocating on behalf of the best of ourselves. And I get it. You know, when you look at the world, it is insane. But why is it insane? It's insane because people are lost. They're projecting. They're making it about other people. They're blaming other people, and it's not about other people. It's not about anything else. It's convenient to do that. However, at some point, we have to start to take a look at ourselves and be honest with ourselves about ourselves, and that's where the freedom comes from. You know, Alex. Honestly, I don't even really watch the news anymore because is it really the news, or is it just manipulated content on an algorithm and a timeline that people want me to see that that hijacks my psyche, and then all of a sudden I'm down some rabbit hole, and I don't even know why, or I'm looking at somebody that is just another human being and looking at them as if, in some way, shape, or form, they're different than me, or that I should be afraid of them. I mean, it's just wild. And the other thing is that now we don't even know what real content is, as opposed to AI-generated content. So it's like, what are we even looking at anyway? Right? What have we been looking at? And so the truth is, that's why I'm grateful for you and for this because we get a dose of reality, and we get a dose of what's important. We get a we get a precious pause, an oasis, a respite in the middle of the insanity and the illusion that we can come back to, and that we can touch into that in whatever way we see fit. If that's near-death experiences, so be it. If that's Eastern mysticism, so be it. If that's Christian mysticism, so be it. If that's a channeling, so be it. If that's something that's you know a divining of some other world or some other dimension through a medium, so be it. It doesn't matter. Actually, the funny thing is that the version of the world that we're living in is the same version of the world, and it's only a matter of time until people finally figure that out, and that's why we're here. So, in this time of insanity, peak insanity, we have to move into peak love and acceptance.

Alex Ferrari 29:16
And you can't have that peak love and acceptance unless you had the equal power of insanity to push you that way. Because if everything's hunky dory, or even if it's just meh, if it's meh, you don't go up here and go. We need love, and no, no, you need this to counterbalance that. I've noticed that throughout human history, when there is a power that comes up, there's another one to counterbalance it. It's just kind of almost natural.

Panache Desai 29:47
No, it's beautiful. It's like you have to become successful to realize that it's not about being successful. You're still suffering, you know. And and in that same way, it's like the illusion we have to get peak illusion to realize that wow, this is an illusion. This is absolutely. Bonkers, and now I'm not the only way that's feeling that way, and that's when you begin to start to ask questions and begin to cultivate some curiosity and begin to look at alternative mediums or modes of exchanging information like this one. You know,

Alex Ferrari 30:13
Yeah, I always jokes like no one looks for Jesus when they're in the Amalfi Coast, sitting on a yacht eating lobster and drinking champagne. They're not looking for answers then, because you're fine, right? It's when they're in Skid Row, you know, living on the streets and they're broke and everything's gone. That's when all of a sudden you start looking for Jesus, as uses Jesus as an example.

Panache Desai 30:35
No, that's beautiful because there's no greater catalyst, right, for for awakening than suffering and challenge, right? Which brings us all the way back to the first question. You know, I get it, guys. Listen, it's not easy out there. What you're going through is supremely challenging. But do you have to suffer, beloved, while you're going through it? Can we go through it peacefully? I know you can because I've had the pleasure of witnessing people go through stage four cancer and chemo and every kind of medical diagnosis and issue imaginable peacefully. Why? Because they embraced the fact that they were going through it. They made peace with the fact that it was happening.

Alex Ferrari 31:11
And it's this acceptance that I love about what your message is: is that look, what happens happened. It's about how you deal with what happened. The only thing we have control of is how we deal with what comes at us in life. Not, I mean, yeah, it's innate to be angry at you know a car accident. Let's say that you get a little fender bender, you're going to be angry, but like, but it's already happened. The milk is spilt. Why are you going to yell at the milk?

Panache Desai 31:39
And sometimes milk soured, right? Like, not only is it spilt, it's soured too.

Alex Ferrari 31:44
On top, yeah. And so, what are you going to do? Yell at the milk? No. What do you do? The milk is the milk. It's just it's what it is. It is a tool, a catalyst to I feel to test you in a certain way to see where you are. And sometimes, sometimes you make it. Sometimes you don't.

Panache Desai 32:00
That's why we have to get off. That's why we have to get off the vibrational, moral, and spiritual high ground and finally start to live a real life and be a real person, and and just be in the truth that the milk is spilt and it's sour, and and then figure out who we are in relationship to that as an individual and the community. I feel like Alex, this is the greatest opportunity ever. You know, when we started Call to Calm, it was a time of uncertainty during the pandemic. You know, we had like three to 5000 people every day. You know, from all over the world, nobody knew what was going on, and I just showed up every day for free. It's still happening for free. You know, Call to Calm is still going strong. 2000 people from all over the world, and the reason why they come is because they're real people living real lives. They want to be. They want to have some semblance of peace and connection in the midst of their experience. They know there's more, but they don't know how. And so, this acceptance that we're exploring is actually, in some ways, the only thing that works. You know, it takes us back all the way to the web at the beginning and the meditation. You know, the only thing that frees you of the web, the matrix, the Maya, the simulation is your acceptance of the fact that you're in it. You have to come into the acceptance of where you are now in order to be free, and this is your freedom. This is what your prophets, your saints, your sages, your messiahs have spoken of since the beginning of time, and this is the time that we're living in-the time of revelation, the revelation of what? The revelation of who you are beyond this created self, beyond this habitual sense of resistance that you've confused as the truth of who you are. This is your opportunity now, and and as someone who says that they are spiritual and who is on a spiritual path, it is your responsibility now to step into that on behalf of everyone else, because we are a part of a collective, right? We are a part of 8 billion people, never increasing number every day, and that's just the human beings. That doesn't take into consideration everything else on Earth and life everywhere else, and every other reality and every other universe beyond that. And so, if you are indeed a manifestation of light, love, and presence, then at some point you have to start to allow that light, love, and presence through your acceptance and transparency to begin to permeate the world around you.

Alex Ferrari 34:14
Panache, there's I sit down quite often and and just think about things philosophically.

Panache Desai 34:21
I never would have guessed that about you, Alex.

Alex Ferrari 34:23
Right? I just sit down sometimes, especially when I'm traveling. I'll just sit and think deep thoughts, and you know. And I've said this before, and and I've I don't think I've talked about it in detail, but you know, as you as you start getting over a certain age hump, the perspective of life starts to change a bit, and you start going, "Oh, wait a minute! I'm I'm over halfway done with this game now. Oh, okay, this is. Oh, okay. It's it's a very different mindset from 30 to 50. It's a very different mindset. And I was thinking about like you know how how we get caught up in our own little dramas and our own little things, and that we don't we think we're and I don't and I don't want to diminish by saying this, but we think we're so important that the whole world revolves around us.

Panache Desai 35:18
Yeah, we're really not.

Alex Ferrari 35:20
We're really not, and in the scope of, let's just stay on this planet for a second. Let's not go out into the universe. Let's just stay on this planet. In the scope of this planet, we are not even a grain of sand. In all the humans have ever lived on this planet, they all went through dramas. They all thought they were the center of the universe in many ways. They all thought that they were this thing because their ego told them to. But in the grand scheme of things, you know, you start. I don't know if this has happened to you, Panache, but as as your idols start to die off in your life, you know, and and I've had a lot of of my idols die off early. Some died off, you know, in old age, and you start to realize like what happened to their their legacy, their you know quote unquote legacy, or what did it mean, and did they leave the earth in a better place than they found it? The person that comes to mind, and this this actor when he died, it hit me like I was in mourning for a week when Robin Williams when Robin Williams died when he passed, and I I got the pleasure of meeting him once a few months before he passed, and I don't know why, but when he passed, it hit me like I mean literally like it was a family member dying, and I didn't understand why. I was like, "What, what? And it was the fact I think that he brought so much love, so much joy to the world. And in in my own experience, I grew up with him from when I was a kid. And but in in 500 years, is anyone going to think? Remember who Robin Williams was? In 1000, in 10,000, how many people have lived before us? So in that scope, in that picture, and what I'm trying to do is frame an idea here, is that this idea that we choose to come down, to incarnate, to challenge ourselves, to evolve as a soul to understand who we truly are through these experiences, that makes sense to me. So much more sense than a lot of the narratives that have been brought down by religion, because that makes sense to me. What's your thoughts of this whole conversation I just had?

Panache Desai 37:35
Well, I love it, and and I I get it because we just recently experienced like Dolly Parton posse, and you know living in the state of Tennessee, like Dolly Parton's a national treasure and the closest thing to an angel I think you're ever going to meet in person. And I never got to meet in person, but she lives right around the corner from me. And the outpouring of love and the flowers and people stopping to take pictures and I mean, you know, it was it's massive. And but why though? Because it's it's it's how that person made us feel, right? It's it's the feeling, it's the love that we share. It's it's the the contribution isn't financial or through the expansion of their own personal empire or footprint. The contribution is through how they make people feel, the feeling that they deliver into the world, and when we examine that, like in our own lives, and you know, some of you are famous who are watching this, and some of you are just going about parenting or whatever, and you're famous in your homes, you know, in your own way, you know, you've got to get to a place where you realize that you have that same capacity. And see, as it relates to evolution, Alex, and you love this narrative about the soul evolving, and I love you for loving this narrative, and you tried to sneak it in the last time we had an interview a few times. You sneak it in now, thinking that you were going to get away with it this time.

Alex Ferrari 38:47
No, no, I want to hear. I want to hear it.

Panache Desai 38:49
And I think that can we really be a contribution and deliver the love that we are into the world while we're still a work in progress, right?

Alex Ferrari 38:57
Right.

Panache Desai 38:57
Meaning, meaning that so many people are waiting for them to overcome things, to move beyond things, to move beyond challenges, to move beyond perceived limitations before they finally start expressing. What I would like to say is that the part of you that's the light, love, and presence is already whole and complete, and is already expressing completely and totally. And the reason why someone like a Robin Williams or a Dolly Parton, Robin Williams is a wonderful example because he had his own challenges and he went through his own his own things in his life, and yet people remember how he made them feel and he brought joy into the world. Whether he ever experienced that or not is another conversation for another day, right? However, the feeling that he brought into our lives, the joy that he brought us, the the worlds that he brought to life through his acting and through his ability, right, will never experience again because there'll never be another person like that who can bring that reality into being. But in this way, all of you that are watching are that same potential impossibility. The world that you're bringing into being, the feeling, the sentiment that you're sharing. The love that you're conveying-that's never going to be conveyed ever again in that way, right? Like there'll never be another Dolly Parton, right? But at the same time, there's never going to be another you. Now, as it relates to legacy, and I hear this a lot, you know. Listen, all of this could be a fart in the wind, or it could be the best thing that ever happened. That's not for us to determine, right? That's going to be determined and defined by everyone else, and and by whether the love that we are was received, whether whether they had the capacity to be in it, whether they could actually utilize any of this that we're sharing. Our role in all of this is just to present it, to be available, to actually allow this expression to happen through us into the world, to allow people to experience that peace and that connection and that harmony that we know is possible for them-that's all we can do, right? So I think there's embracing who we are. There's the emanation of the love that we are that naturally occurs. It's happening all the time. You can start now from wherever you are. So many people right now are going through intense health challenges or on medical journeys, and guess what? They're on these calls with me, and they are literally the most powerful inspiration to everyone else on the call. Why? Because they're at peace in the midst of it, and nobody in their life can even begin to understand how they're so calm and so at peace in the midst of what's going on, and it provides them an opportunity to express why they're able to be at peace, and so what is the feeling and the sentiment that you wish to contribute into the world, and can you then allow that to occur? And the answer is yes. No matter what your circumstances, no matter what you're going through, you don't have to be famous. You don't have to have a global footprint. You can start now from where you are, and I promise you that somebody at some point is going to feel that, and somebody will remember you because of that. Not because you need them to, but because it's just an effortless expression of the truth of who you are in this world.

Alex Ferrari 41:55
Panache, there was a story I saw that was so beautiful. There was a, I think it was a high school janitor or a middle school janitor, or something like that, and he worked for like 30 years, 40 years as a janitor, 50, I think even I mean he was he's there forever. He was a staple. He was an institution, and he just showed up every day, and was always a helping hand, helping kids. And that one man, and there's 1000 millions of janitors around the world every day that do that work, but the way he did it, he approached it with so much love, so much caring. He changed people's lives by interacting with them, and he was-he never wanted fame, he never wanted anything. But when he was close to his retirement, I think I think the school got together and like bought him a car or something like that, or bought him a house. I don't know something massive, and it just it was this beautiful gift back to him. It was this beautiful return of energy that was so beautiful. And and you're right, it doesn't have to be. You don't have to be super famous. It could be just in your own community. It could be within your own family to create that love, and it will, and people will remember that, and that's that's fine. That's beautiful in that way.

Panache Desai 43:14
That's why I love our interactions because we take something that can sometimes feel amorphous or esoteric, and we make it just very practical and very available to everyone and actionable, and and I feel like that's why people really resonate when we you know with these conversations because you know we just want people to be able to live from the truth of themselves in whatever way you know whatever way they can and I think that's our yearning because we love people you know we and we want people to love themselves and and to live that love in their own lives, and and that's the reason why I wake up every morning, and that's why you get up. It's why we do this, you know, because we want to convey that feeling and that sentiment to others, and we want this to become an avenue and a platform through which that feeling and that sentiment then ripples out beyond us. In order for it to powerfully do so. Going back to your question that you tried to sneak in there under the radar, young man, of this evolution, of this evolution and this timeline that I love you for. I love your timeline and I love the evolution on the soul level. But the greater truth is that the soul doesn't need to evolve. We are evolving in our experience of the soul. Okay, so everything is already inherently present. Yeah. So to go back to Robin Williams. So to go back to Robin Williams, just to give you a concrete, and just to give everyone, wasn't the comedic genius already inherently present in Robin Williams? Wasn't the music already inherently present in Dolly Parton? Right. So isn't the love and the light and all that we are inherently already present within us? That's not something that we have to develop. That's something that one day we finally allow.

Alex Ferrari 44:51
I there's no disagreement, and I completely agree with what you're saying. I think you there again, and I think I love you too, brother. I think it was a miss. I think last time. There was a misunderstanding in the way I'm saying it, or how you're receiving it, because I I agree with you. There's no disagreement. I think that they in the term maybe the way I'm saying it, the soul's evolution. The soul is perfect. You're absolutely right. Yeah. But then, if the soul is perfect, why incarnate into this reality to deal with challenges and in different family situations, in different religions, in different this, why do that? Because it is seeing something within itself, the soul. Yeah, it's seeing something within itself through this experience. It's not that it's evolving, but it is. There has to be some reason why it's doing it. Yeah, the reason. Tell me.

Panache Desai 45:41
The reason is because I wanted to break from the infiniteness of it all.

Alex Ferrari 45:44
So this is a this is a quote unquote vacation.

Panache Desai 45:47
I'm on sabbatical.

Alex Ferrari 45:48
I'm sabbatical. I'm a spiritual sabbatical coming down here, and some of us choose different kinds of sabbaticals. Some go to the Abalfi Coast and eat gelato all day, and there's others who struggle and go through a bunch of other stuff.

Panache Desai 46:03
Listen, it's just when you when you go to the movie theater, you can go and pick whatever kind of movie you want. You can go and watch a movie where you're scared out of your mind and you can't sleep for a week. You can watch a movie where you roll around laughing. You can go watch a movie where it's artsy and creative and it makes you kind of think about your notion of reality. You know, like so. So, so the thing is that I think that the illusion that's happening here is that life is for some other purpose other than edutainment. It's just, it's just we're just having a break from the infiniteness of it all. So the illusion is that we left the infiniteness of it all. We didn't, right? So right now we're still in oneness. We're still the same light, love, and presence, right? It's just we're experiencing it in this form, which, if you think about it, is a wonderful break from the perpetual monotony of just infinity, everlasting.

Alex Ferrari 46:52
Well, then let me ask you this: Then there is a there's a gentleman that's right behind you. His name is Buddha.

Panache Desai 46:58
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 46:59
And he's quite famous, and he is famous for finding "quote unquote" enlightenment under the tree that he meditated under, and then, and Jesus was an enlightened master, and Yogananda was, and you know, there's many masters who've walked the earth, but from my understanding, in from a Eastern philosophical point of view, when a soul reaches quote unquote enlightenment like Buddha, you the game is essentially over. You don't have to come back here. Not have to, but you don't want to come back here because you've played the game 1000 times, a million times, and you're like, I know everything. I, I've mastered this level, and then there's another level, and probably another level, and that we don't understand yet, or another realm of existence. So then, if there is no evolution of the soul, what does that mean for Buddha? Because I imagine Buddha or Jesus lived multiple 1000s of lives, maybe I don't know how many, and started off pretty rudimentary, but then evolved to this place, which is an ascended master, or like in finding enlightenment. I, what do you think of that?

Panache Desai 48:12
I think it's a wonderful story and a wonderful assumption. I don't know that it's based in reality.

Alex Ferrari 48:19
Okay,

Panache Desai 48:20
And here's why, because first of all, Buddha and Jesus were were world renowned or spiritual because of their ability to have a revelation as it relates to the mystery of life, right? But you know, to this day we still have gelato. Why isn't the person who who uncovered the mystery of gelato just as well renowned and remembered? So the truth is that you know I mean he should be he or she should be so I mean the thing is this right that I feel like we're in this Maya we're in this simulation we're in the matrix this is all languaging that we use right so what made Buddha or Jesus unique in regard to that was the fact that they were aware of the fact that they were in it. The moment you become aware of the fact that you're in it, you're free of it, right? So as it relates to the progression or linear path of Jesus or Buddha or any great being from any tradition, right? Who knows? Like, you know, did they go through some linear journey through time, where they had to evolve from, I don't know, an amoeba to finally being Buddha. I don't think so. No, I think that that's a very basic way of looking at reality. You see, if we really are this infinity and we're everywhere, then that means that we're just experiencing ourselves in different forms everywhere, all at once. It goes back to this idea of a sabbatical or a break from the infiniteness of it all, right? So, what does that mean? Well, that means that the potential is inherently present. How do we liberate that potential by realizing that we're living in this illusion and we're empowering? How we do that doesn't matter, right? Other people will articulate the same thing that we're talking about in different ways, right? But they'll use words like, "Well, you know, I finally feel like I'm enough, or "You know, I realize that success wasn't the answer, right? But if we keep this notion of linear progression alive, then what we do is we keep this idea of hierarchy of human experience alive, and all I would like to share, in my humble opinion, is that the person who invented gelato is no more special than the beautiful being behind me, or any other being that lived on this planet, because everyone is uniquely a part of the same light, the same energy, the same contribution, delivering that in their own unique way into the world, and different people resonate with things in different ways, and that's all it is. For some people, gelato may be their oneness; it may well be their freedom, right? And so, what I'm saying is, Alex, that yes, it looks like there's a linear progression through time. However, there's just the constant of the infinity that we are, and when we go back to the meditation and we go back to allowing our energy to finally just be freed of this illusion, this spider web, well, then we can see everything is fully formed, everything is totally inherently present, and every part of creation is expressing itself in exactly the way that it needs to, and they're just doing it in different in different. So the movie that we signed up for was the movie of the greats, the Mahatmas, right? That's our jam, right? We love that, right? So we resonate with that. It just so happens that this happens to be one of the Mahatmas, right? One of the great beings. You know, you have so many wonderful Mahatmas behind you, right? Great souls, right? But I would like to contend that every next level soul is a great soul. Every person who's here is that, right? And I would also like to say that you don't have to wait for your next lifetime, or you are also not circumstantially impaired because of your previous lifetimes before you demonstrate that capacity, and let's just take all the mystery out of it. Let's just say that this is everyone's last lifetime, because it only ever took one of us to remember the truth. So as long as one of us remembers the truth, we're all free.

Alex Ferrari 52:16
So basically, what you're saying is this is an interesting concept. Is that, and I don't disagree with anything you're saying in regards to, you know, that Jesus, Buddha, and the Mahatmas that we're talking about, they all essentially became neo. They understood that they were in the Matrix, and then they could free themselves like he did, and then play within it. Once you understand the game, that you understand the rules, you see the code. You can do things that nobody else does, which seems magical, but it's only magical or special because you don't see it. But I, I just realized, oh, I'm in a game, and that's what enlightenment is essentially for Buddha. He, he just. So it's not that he's more, and I agree with you. No soul is more special than another. Just because Buddha or Jesus or any of the great souls discovered within themselves and woke up within themselves that this is this reality doesn't mean that we're not capable of it. And I say that all the time, like just and Christ said it. Everything I can do, you can do, and more.

Panache Desai 53:24
Right!

Alex Ferrari 53:25
You know, the kingdom of heaven is within you. These are all things that we're all capable of. We've been lied to that we are lesser than, that we're not good enough by this toothpaste kind of thing, but the truth is that we are more powerful than we ever can imagine we are. It's just the realization, true realization, not intellectual realization, but true realization of that-the truth of what this is-and that's the difference. And I love that.

Panache Desai 53:57
And the reason why I'm sharing this with you is because there is no hierarchy in God.

Alex Ferrari 54:01
Agreed.

Panache Desai 54:02
And so, what we have to do is watch out where sometimes these concepts and notions that come from hierarchical cultures or communities all of a sudden become referenced as it relates to the soul, because what it what it implies is that the amoeba does not share the same potential as the Mahatma, and the truth is that the amoeba is the Mahatma, and the Mahatma is the amoeba. There is no separation or duality or difference in any of it, right? And also, if we if we continue to operate inside of this hierarchy, and in India, this hierarchy is very prominent, and you know it's prominent in other parts of the world too, where all of a sudden, you know, somebody has this awareness and somebody has this recognition, and all of a sudden they're special. They're not special; they've just become a possibility or potential for the rest of us, and and we and we should not treat anyone ever as special or different just because they have a different perspective or awareness into reality than we do, because every perspective and every every unique manifestation of life is just as valued and is loved by God actually, and so I'm great. For all of these great beings who have walked the earth, my problem is that everyone's a great being who's walking the earth.

Alex Ferrari 55:07
But but most of us don't realize it.

Panache Desai 55:09
Well, you're you're you realize it. However, you've got stage fright.

Alex Ferrari 55:20
You're like I am Meryl. I am Meryl Streep. I am Daniel Day Lewis, but I'm like I. But I don't. I don't want to come out there. Oh, there's there a light? Oh no no no no! I'll go back here. It's it's it's always fascinating talking to you, Banash, about this stuff because we go deep down rabbit holes. So then, let's let's take this to the next level, if you will, because this is a question I get asked to all about all the time. So, what your your thesis of reality is that everything is perfect as is. Okay, so if everything is perfect, and I get this asked all the time, where does "quote unquote" evil fit in? Can a murderer can a murderer's soul stay untouched? Can Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great's soul be untouched based on the horrors that we perceive not perceive that we saw them do in this reality? Millions and millions of people. I mean, Genghis Khan killed 10% of the population of the Earth. Yeah, at the time. So

Panache Desai 56:25
Yeah, it's a very it's a very profound question, and I get asked this a lot, and I know you do too, and and so many other people do as well. So the the the thing here is that first of all, humanity human beings can be totally barbaric, and we can also be completely beautiful, right? So, we can't obfuscate the fact that we can be totally barbaric, right? We have. So, what's happening here is that we have a reluctance to inherently embrace the parts of us that are more animalistic, as spirit as a spiritual community. And the truth is that, if anything, being spiritual means opening our hearts to the parts of ourselves that are more barbaric and animalistic, because every human being has that potential. Just like we have the potential to live in the freedom and to live the truth, we also have the potential to be cruel and to be vicious. And we've demonstrated that throughout the ages. Right? The difference is that in the modern world, we are less vicious and less cruel and less barbaric than we have been, and that's the part that nobody talks about, you know. So they use this point as a point of invalidation, and the reason why they use this point as a point of invalidation is because typically they've experienced some form of injustice within themselves, and I get it, I get it. Abuse, torture, violence, turmoil-all of these things that happen to us, really hard, really defining if we allow them to be. However, after all, we have to realize that we're allowing them to be, right? And what's amazing, Alex, is that you know, and I've shared, I've been sharing this a lot lately. It's not how we start that's important. You know, you you could have been born into a situation or a circumstance that was abhorrent on every level, and everyone could agree that it was just terrible, right? Or a moment in human history where all of a sudden humanity turned against a particular race or gender or religion or manifestation of life that it agreed was the threat, right? But after a while, we have to holistically observe humanity, and we have to open our heart to the totality of what it means to be human inside of ourselves. And until we reconcile that within ourselves, we're going to live in this evil, good polarity, this heaven and hell polarity inside of ourselves. So, do we have the capacity for all of these things? Of course, we do. We're human. We have the capacity for everything that every other human being has done before us. We have the capacity for all of it, right? Do we have to continue to live in the injustices that we've experienced? No, but that would require something of us. It would require our willingness to accept and embrace the fact that what happened happened. Once we finally accept the fact that what happened happened-the trauma, the abuse, whatever it was-then we no longer need to seek evidence of the fact that it's safe to be who we are from the world that's never going to come. So the reason why people hyperfixate on everything that's happening in the world-the violence, the good, the evil-is because they have to do that. They have to do that because they have to remain safe at all costs, and this is just what the mind does. The mind puts everything into boxes. So when somebody needs to do that, it's because they have not opened their heart to the part of themselves that was impacted or affected by life in some really hard way, in some really deeply painful way. Now, I believe that if we can open our hearts to the evil in the world as you perceive it, or the injustice in the world as you're experiencing it, and we can open our hearts to all of it, eventually we'll get to a place where none of this needs to exist anymore. I feel like the reason why it carries on in the world is because we haven't opened our hearts to it. We haven't been willing to see it and embrace it and be inclusive of it as a part of who we are. As beautiful as we are as a species, we can also be barbaric and brutal. There's no denying that.

Panache Desai 1:00:15
The question is, can you make peace with that? Because if you can, then you can allow the love that you are to shine, and at that point you will no longer exclude anyone from your love, ever again. You'll have compassion and empathy for them because you'll realize that they're not separate than you. They're not different than you. You don't even have to forgive. Nothing needs to be forgiven, because in that moment there's no longer any separation.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:41
But Panas, would you agree that the the root cause of a lot of a lot of issues in this world is the illusion that there is not enough, in the sense that if I have 10 apples. I've taken five apples from you, so now I must fight you, or I must hoard apples in order to survive, or just because my ego says it. And there comes to a point where now I have 5 million apples. I can never eat this many apples in my entire life, and arguably many will go rotten because I'm hoarding them. That I'm seeing that play out on the world stage more and more every day, and I don't, I don't see a future in the current path that we're in. And I don't say that in a not not anonymous, not in an anonymous way, but in a practical way. In other words, things have to change in order for us to survive. Because if we continue down the path of destroying the planet, screwing people over-I mean, putting crap in our foods just for money, not taking care of people health-wise because of money, not educating people the proper way because of money and power and and all this kind of stuff. This can't go on because it it was able to get to a certain point, but now we're at almost a hyper level with AI and technology and and the world. It just can't. We can't support it. The planet can't support it. Our our species can't support it, so where do you see us moving forward? And first of all, do you agree with what I'm saying? And

Panache Desai 1:02:28
I think what you've shared, Alex, is so beautiful, and it's and it's how I've experienced life actually in so many ways. I maybe would articulate it a little bit differently. I think the disconnection from our own personal power leads to us externally trying to acquire power. So because we're so disconnected from the power that's within us, we now have, you know, interests, global interests, now trying to secure power externally. But it's all just a, it's all just a separation and duality game, right? And and then the reason why all this stuff happens is then they have to go and acquire these external manifestations of power because their power depends upon them, right? The continuation of their power depends upon these things, but this is all because people are lost in the illusion, the Maya, all the stuff that we talk about here, all the stuff that all the all your other guests talk about here, right? So the only way to be free of all of this is to come back to the heart, come back to the love, come back to the truth, and to cultivate an all-inclusive relationship with your humanity, you know, and to reclaim your own personal power, to understand that there is an infinite source of power within you, a sustainable source of power, because it is the rediscovery of that sustainable source of power within you, and agency and autonomy that's going to allow us to cultivate a sustainable source of power externally in the world.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:49
I mean, literally, as you were talking and you said something, it's like a giant poof went off in my head, and it a lot of things started, and then it's like that domino, that giant domino that falls, and then all of a sudden things start to clear out.

Panache Desai 1:04:04
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:04:04
Is the this the source when people are when you have a trillionaire. You know, there is a place of like, well, who is that person without his money? What is can that does that person have true power within themselves, and then you look at a a monk who is penniless and yet has so much more power within himself or herself, like so much more power within them, and and I don't know why that realization just hit me. Like, oh, all these leaders around the world that are trying to conquer others, and like it's because they feel powerless. They truly internally feel power. Because if you have true power, you don't need to. You don't need to do things like that. There's because it's a sickness. I mean, once you have, there's a certain money level of money you get in life. At this point, like you can't spend it anymore.

Panache Desai 1:05:02
No,

Alex Ferrari 1:05:03
You you can't. You you have four generations covered, like if not 10 generations of your family covered. You can't, and you want more, and you want more, and you screw more people over, and you take more from the earth, and you and and and you hurt more people to get more, more, more, more, more. It's a sickness because they are truly powerless. And I never connected those two dots. But you're absolutely right. There are leaders around the world right now who are starting wars, who are trying to take. There's CEOs. There's companies who are just trying to to take, take, take, take, take. And us as a people, we're starting to just get exhausted. We're just like you know what? We're not going to put up with this anymore,

Panache Desai 1:05:45
Right?

Alex Ferrari 1:05:47
But I never, I never connected those two things, and it's so true because you look at, you know, as you know, I love Yogananda and Buddha and and Christ. They didn't. It's not that they can't have money. It's okay to have money. You need money to do things.

Panache Desai 1:06:02
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:06:03
But it didn't define them. They they were as they were as powerful without $1 than they had with a lot of money. And what did they do with their money? Help put things out into the world, trying to to help humanity. It's so beautiful, man. I just thank you for that because it just came within myself.

Panache Desai 1:06:23
So, so just to just to bring the point home for everyone else, they're chasing false power. Yes, false power. False power. False power is power that is based in impermanence. When you're connected to the true source of power, when you're awake to the true source of power within you, you you realize that there's an infinite power at work far greater than you could ever imagine that's unfolding everything

Alex Ferrari 1:06:46
Because anything that you any anything that you really grab from outside of you is impermanent by the nature of the reality that we live in

Speaker 1 1:06:54
Exactly

Alex Ferrari 1:06:55
But the power that's within ourselves is infinite

Panache Desai 1:06:58
Yes

Alex Ferrari 1:06:59
And and has no end, and we're tapped in essentially into our own our own power. That is so much.

Panache Desai 1:07:07
It's infinitely available to all of us right now,

Alex Ferrari 1:07:10
Instantly.

Panache Desai 1:07:11
Yeah, and it's the answer. It's really the answer. It's really the answer to finally access the love that you are, the joy that you are, the grace that you are, the beauty that you are, the truth of yourself, and to live from it-it's really the answer. And the funny thing is, Alex, when you're connected to that, none of this other stuff really matters anymore. People can do whatever it is that they think that they're supposed to be doing. It doesn't matter anymore. You're not paying attention. You're staring at a tree or appreciating a beautiful squirrel, or chipmunk, or woodchuck, or just appreciating a sunrise or a sunset, or life-you know-people who have lived well don't need to live long. I would rather live well than live long. And to live well means to make the most of every moment that we have, and to not be distracted by all of this stuff outside of us, all of these narratives, all of these things that are going on-are they happening? Yes. You know, to quote my favorite spiritual teacher, Danny Rojas from Ted Lasso. Danny Rojas from Ted Lasso, the most enthusiastic character you've ever seen in your life.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:19
I love it.

Panache Desai 1:08:20
Football is life. Football is life. Football is life. But you know, he had a revelation. Football is also death. And in the moment he had the revelation, once he could finally accept the fact that football is life and football is death, he was free. While he was living in the illusion that football is life, he couldn't accept the other side of it, which is it's also death too, and in that same way, to be human is beautiful, but to be human can also be brutal and barbaric. Can we, as a community, hold both of those truths equally within ourselves? Is that not why we are here? And then to determine for ourselves who we are, the only way to do that is to embrace the perceived polarity within ourselves, the misconnection, the disconnect, whatever we call it, and to put an end to it inside of us. Yes, human beings are all things that we've been throughout human history, and by virtue of the fact that we are one, we're all of it. The question isn't that. That's obvious. That's obvious. It's evidenced every day. The point of personal power that we have here is who do we want to be in the midst of that? How do we want to live? Danny Rojas, Swami Danny Rojas.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:29
I mean,

Panache Desai 1:09:30
From the Bhagavad Gita of Ted Lasso, bro. I mean, Sri Lasso Gita.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:35
I mean, Ted Lasso is is one of the most spiritual shows I've ever seen. There's no question. I'm I'm in the middle of of the fourth season right now, and I'm just like, this is amazing. And you know what it is about that, and I don't want to go down this road too much. But when you when you watch that show, there's very few shows that have so much beauty and optimism

Panache Desai 1:09:55
Right

Alex Ferrari 1:09:56
Within the drama. It's so rare to see a character. Like that, and he struggles. Ted Lasso, I mean, he's a human. He struggles. He has to deal with stuff. He, you know, he had to get a divorce. He had to like there was stuff, but how he approaches it is something that we should all, I mean, really thrive to try to be. Because in many ways, that character, his outlook on life is is so beautiful and profound. It's it's a it's such a. I mean, I started watching. I hadn't seen it in a while, and I was like, "Oh, let me just pick up the next season. I started watching it with my wife, and we're just sitting there going, "My God, I feel good after watching this. That's rare. That is rare in today's media landscape to feel good,

Speaker 2 1:10:41
Right!

Alex Ferrari 1:10:41
Like truly good inside after watching something. It's like watching mrs. Doubtfire. Like you feel good after watching mrs. Doubtfire. You feel really good about it. Yes. So, Panash, I want to ask you. This is a question I get asked all the time, and I'd love to hear you your thoughts on it. We're talking about awakening. We're talking about awakening within the the matrix, the reality. This this this thing that we're going through, the Maya. But what happens when you're with a partner and you wake up before they do, or maybe they're not even meant to wake up in this lifetime. How do you deal with it, even though you still love them? But they're not. Yeah,

Panache Desai 1:11:31
Socrates. Socrates once famously said, "I am who I am today because of my wife.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:36
Amen to that, brother. Amen to that.

Panache Desai 1:11:39
And in that same way, a lot of our goddesses out there are who they are today because of their husbands.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:44
Yes, agreed.

Panache Desai 1:11:45
So your relationship is not an impediment to anything, actually, because you see the illusion is that the other is the source of the love, in the same way that certain entities right now think that power is the is the accumulation of certain resources that are outside of them, in that same way, you're living in the same the same delusion that love exists outside of you. Now, the funny thing is that you're not experiencing the love in somebody else's body. You're only ever experiencing the love in your own body. You've never felt the love in anyone else's body, so love is totally a self enclosed experience. It has nothing to do with who you're in relationship with. You can live in a state of love within yourself all the time, and and that's the whole point is to get to a place where your happiness and your your freedom and your creativity and your love is no longer governed by anyone else or their love or their lack thereof of self love, because if you're beholden to the other for the source of what dwells within you, you'll never find it. In that same way, please don't ever put anyone on a pedestal or make anybody greater than you, because they're not right. Everybody is you. Everyone's a human being. We're all of it, and I think that more and more, this is the end of the illusion, the end of the illusion is to really embrace the fact that we're all the same. We're all the same human being. We're all the same energy. We're all the same love. And so, in relationship, if you've woken up slightly ahead of your partner, it's because you were supposed to. Maybe you just need a little bit longer to kind of integrate it and accept it. Maybe they, maybe they don't, but also maybe that was the purpose of the partner. Maybe the purpose of the partner was to get you to attend workshops and seminars and read books and watch podcasts like this, so you could finally figure out that you were the source of the love that you were looking for, and that there is not another person in this world that's capable of loving you in the way that you can love yourself, because they're not you.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:42
Well, then is romantic love a lie that we've been sold?

Panache Desai 1:13:45
Yeah, romantic love is a total is a complete lie. Jerry Maguire is a liar. You complete me is the worst thing that ever happened to humans. Hello, Jerry. Where was that in your manifesto, buddy? Talking about representing your clients, but you just introduced a whole love, a whole can of separation and duality into that movie through the articulation of the words "you complete me. That was terrible. Now we've got people walking around looking for people to complete them. So here's the purpose of relationship: companionship and intimacy. Companionship and intimacy. Do I have companionship and do I have intimacy? You know, it's funny, Alex. In most couples, in relationship dynamics where I've been blessed enough to kind of mentor people or guide people through these dynamics, if there's companionship and intimacy, there isn't a problem in the marriage. There's only ever a problem in the marriage or the relationship when there's no companionship or intimacy. You don't need the other person to love you. You don't need them to be the source of your safety and security. You can be that for yourself. But a wonderful part of living in this world, this illusion, this Maya, is that there is the illusion of the other, and that you can have companionship and intimacy. With another person who's just you in a different body, which is kind of weird when you think about it, but that's exactly what's going on.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:07
So then, why is humanity so eager to give their power away? Why is it so much easier for me to say, "You tell me what to do, Panaj. I am not capable of it, or I'm scared of it. Is it because we are truly on an on a subconscious or innate level afraid of the power that we have within inside of us because of the programming of society telling us that we're not enough?

Panache Desai 1:15:36
You just ask the question of all questions. It's because we believe consciously or unconsciously that we have to suffer to find belonging in this world, we don't want to be empowered, because we're afraid we'll be rejected or abandoned, and we won't fit in, we won't be accepted, we won't be loved. Meanwhile, you're not being accepted or embraced or fitting in anyway. But every single oh, let's do this, Alex. Close your eyes for a moment. Just take some breaths. Let's do this, all of us together, because that was the question of all questions: is why do we continue to to live in these illusions? Just becoming aware of your every inhalation or exhalation, seated where you are or laying down. Just becoming aware of a truth. The truth is that there is some form of suffering that you've held on to your entire life to remain related to your family, people in your life, in the hope that if you hold on to it, you'll be a vibrational match to them, and one day they'll love you. So you have actually suffered, and held on to suffering in an attempt to be loved by those who have modeled to you that suffering is the norm. Where this suffering resides is in the area of the heart chakra. Just becoming aware of your every inhalation and exhalation, and just allowing whatever form this suffering takes to begin to just be lifted up and out of you like gray ash or smoke, excepting in this moment, the diminishing who you are has not brought you the love that you have been seeking, then actually now you can have the courage to live your truth in this world, and to no longer in any way diminish yourself with the hope that one day somebody in your life is going to love you, Alex. As best as you can, just describing to us what's happening, just allowing this suffering that takes the form of a sadness more often than not-it's like a shroud over the heart-to just be lifted up and off of you.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:23
First thing I felt was guilt. I felt guilty because I love that other person so much, as as if they were myself, and I don't want to. In many ways, I don't not want to love them that much. It's it's very it's very profound and very powerful at the same time because it's it's it's sad but happy at the same time because, and this is something I think we need to address. Just because I identify the power within me does not negate the power within the other person. Just because I, I identify the love, the infinite love that is within myself, that I don't need others to be happy, does not negate my love or affection for the other person who is my companion in this life, and this is where I feel that some people get lost, get caught up in the in the minutia or the the mud of it a little bit because of that guilt feeling. It was the very first feeling that came into my my my mind.

Panache Desai 1:19:35
So was guilt the glue that kept you related with your family? Was guilt the glue that kept you all connected, on an unconscious level.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:44
Oh no, on a on a conscious level, some of the family, absolutely!

Panache Desai 1:19:47
Perfect. So can you see, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:19:49
Extended family, yes, yeah, yeah.

Panache Desai 1:19:51
So can you see then that it's always some form of suffering that we hold on to, knowingly or unknowingly, because we want to remain related. To people, we want to fit in and belong. And the reason why you can go see every healer, every teacher, every guru, go to every sacred site in the world, the reason why you won't let go of this is because, first of all, the only person who can let go of it is you. No one's powerful enough to do that for you. You have to. You have to finally feel safe enough in yourself to let it go, and secondly, and the reason why you have to feel safe enough to let it go is because you have to be willing to experience your life beyond it.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:31
But again, Panache, it's a lot of work, Panache. I have to say,

Panache Desai 1:20:33
Can be, it can be, can be, or it can just be what's happening, probably.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:39
I've said this so many times to people because you know we put out this show and we put out tremendous amount of content and we have Next Level Soul TV and there's a lot of stuff, but what I find disheartening is that people's egos will say, "Hey, I'm a spiritual person because I watch multiple shows or I listen to certain books or I read certain books or I go to certain retreats or seminars or conventions, and I'm like, look, look, look! I'm I'm doing the work. I'm doing the work, but they're not.

Panache Desai 1:21:11
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:21:11
The real work is hard within themselves, or it does it has doesn't have to be hard, but but it it's something when it's I mean I I could say it's hard because, like, looking yourself in the mirror and being honest with yourself-yeah, that's a challenge for most human beings on the planet.

Panache Desai 1:21:27
Yeah, I think that's why we have to redefine what being a Next Level Soul means. I think being a next-level soul means being a human being, being profoundly human. I think, I think that's the next iteration or evolution of the spiritual community is to pivot out of enlightenment and oneness and all of these things into authenticity. I think spirituality 2.0 is just authenticity.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:52
Yeah. Oh, no question. No, no question.

Panache Desai 1:21:56
So that's what it means to be a next level soul is to be you. To to find to find a sense of grace and a sense of compassion and empathy for yourself in the midst of your experience because guys we're all real people living real lives every single one of us and that's something that you're never going to be able to escape the question is how would you like to experience that with some modicum of grace or with the harshness of everything that you believe you have to meet yourself with because you're not living up to some illusion of perfection that was designated by some other human being who may not be living in that same perfection that they're telling you that you have to live in.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:32
My final question to you, my friend, is: Is there a question that still keeps you up at night that you have not been able to tangle to to to work out.

Panache Desai 1:22:43
I don't think that there's a question that keeps me up at night. I feel like sometimes it is hard for me to witness what human beings do to themselves. I feel like that that can sometimes be challenging for me, and that's when I have to remember, Alex, that I can show up every morning. I can share everything that there is to share, everything that flows through me, offer everyone every opportunity possible to move into the totality of themselves, which is what they've been praying for and asking for and yearning for for their whole lives. And at the end of the day, people are going to do with that whatever they're going to do with that. I can tell you that I love you with all my heart, whether you choose to be who you are or not, and ultimately, I think that we have to get to a place where we find a sense of acceptance and love for ourselves, no matter what. I think sometimes to be spiritual is its own affliction. You know, we we judge ourselves in 16 dimensions, sometimes multiple universes. You know, it's it's hard out there for a spiritual person. I think it's easier for your average layperson who isn't aware of all of these things. And what I'll say to you all is, all I want for you, you're hearing the sound of my voice, is for you before your last breath to know the magnificence that dwells within you. That's it.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:59
Panache where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in this world?

Panache Desai 1:24:05
Well, come on over to panachedesai.com and come and hang out with me at Call to Calm. It's wonderful. You know, we've got 2000 people from all over the world, just like you, every morning, 197 countries, and the whole point is we'll get together or share what's going on, do a meditation like some of the things we've done here, and if your curiosity is piqued at any point, there are other things that you can participate in. But just know that it's not a technique, it's not a teaching, it's not about me. It's about supporting you and being empowered in yourself, so you can navigate being a human being, so that you can be who you really are, so that you can be like Danny Rowe has to know that football is not just life, football is also death, and return to your happiness and your enthusiasm again. Right, celebrate who you are. That's where we're going, Alex. We're moving into a time of celebration: the celebration of being human, the celebration of being awake, the celebration of being alive. Not as a journaling exercise that's forced upon us every day because we need to shift our vibration, but just as a natural expression of thank you God, because I will never be able to thank God for this experience of life. I'll never be able to thank this infinite power for everything that's unfolding every day. So, yes, is it challenging? Yes, it's all so beautiful. It's all of it. It's everything in between.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:26
Panache, thank you again so much for being here in this conversation. And I hope one day that we have the ability to do this in person somehow, some way. If the the universe, if we can connect, because I have a feeling that if if you and I get in the same room; it's going to be one hell of a energetic exchange, my friends. I I appreciate you, my friend, so much.

Panache Desai 1:25:48
Yeah, I love you, Alex. I just and I just want to take a moment, you know, just to thank you for everything you're doing because you're so beautiful in who you are, and everything you express is so heartfelt. And you know, and and I, it's been a joy for me to experience you and this community, and I just want everyone who tunes into Next Level Soul just to know how precious they are. Honestly, how beautiful you are. You know, it's. I'll tell you, I I never read the comments after interviews, and I I was and I thought, well, you know, I just want to go check the comment section after the Next Level Soul podcast. I did the first episode, and do you know? I I just even if people weren't quite on board with what I was saying, you know they respected me enough to not have to diminish who I am in order to hold on to their perspective, and that's a beautiful testament to this community. It's a wonderfully inclusive community where we can be, we can be loving of other people's perspectives, even though we're not fully on board with them, or we don't fully resonate with them. And that, to me, was such a breath of fresh air, Alex. And that's a testament to you. And so I just love you. I just am so grateful for you. I'm grateful for everyone who comes to Next Level Soul. I've had the pleasure of meeting so many of your community members. They've they come to call to come, you know, and I just I love this community. I love I love what you're doing here, and just thank you so much for for everything. I mean that.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:09
Well, I I truly appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. It means a lot you saying that. Thank you so much. It is it is it is work, but it is more mission based than it is a job in many ways, and and I'm I'm just trying to leave the planet a little bit better than when I found it.

Panache Desai 1:27:28
Well, you know what? I love you, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone who's watching this. We love you, Alex. That's it's. I love you, and we love you, Alex. So my friend. Yeah, I just know that.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:38
And thank you for everything you're doing, my friend, to awaken this planet, so I appreciate you more than you know. Love you very much, brother.

Panache Desai 1:27:45
Thank you, bro. Love you too.