Alex Ferrari 0:00
Who was Jane Roberts and who was Seth?

David Cielak 0:03
Something a lot more coherent started to come through Jane. What channeling, in my opinion, shows is we have access through other portions of ourselves to other kinds of information and knowledge. The Seth material is that you try it for yourself, and I don't mean try to channel, but you test it out. If you were to read all the books, and if you did two sessions a day, it would take you four years to read it all.

Alex Ferrari 0:28
According to Seth, what did what happened if there was no physical execution of Jesus of Nazareth,

David Cielak 0:42
According to Seth...

Alex Ferrari 0:54
I like to welcome the show, David Cielak. How you doing, David?

David Cielak 0:56
Good, Alex. Nice to meet you.

Alex Ferrari 0:58
A pleasure to meet you as well, my friend, I'm I'm really looking forward to this conversation because you are neck deep in something called the Seth Materials, and and many people know exactly yeah yeah basically barely above water with the Seth materials, and the the reason why I wanted to bring you on is because I haven't really had anybody on the show that went depth in depth on who Jane Roberts was, and Seth was, and they they and and it's they because it was Seth as a as the being that she was channeling and Jane that the The influence of of Jane and Seth, I look at it upon the same kind of influence as what Edgar Casey did in the turn of the century. It was the introduction to these ideas, introduction to alternative understandings of the universe, understanding of our own history and everything. So, before we just dive in, who was Jane Roberts and who was Seth?

David Cielak 2:05
So Jane, we'll start with her. So she was in the in the early '60s. She had married her husband, whose name is Robert Butts, and they moved to Sarah, Pennsylvania, which is just south of Elmira, and Rob was significantly older, about 10 or 15 years older than Jane. And Jane was an aspiring writer. She was doing writing poetry, writing articles, and putting them in Playboy magazine and some other ones too. But just trying to establish herself as a writer, that's what she wanted to be. She got kicked out of Skidmore for some nefarious thing that happened at a a party where some faculty were. So she's a bit of a rebel, really. You know, small small in stature, but a very much a live wire. But she also had the other side of her, which was kind of a, you know, she liked her own time and her own space, her own ability to focus. So Jane was casting around, trying to establish herself, like she was doing sub teaching at a primary school. I think working in an art gallery, just trying to make ends meet. You know, they were they were not they didn't have much money at all, and an idea came up which was, oh why don't you Jane why don't you do a book on ESP Extra Sensory Perception as it was called in the day, and so they started playing around, and what they did was they thought, "Oh, each chapter can be a certain thing, and then they'll try it out. So one of the things was a Ouija board. They didn't have a Ouija board; they borrowed it from their the owner of the apartment where they lived, right? The landlord. Any rate, so they borrowed it and started playing around, and like within a session or two, they started getting something coming through, letter by letter, you know, a response, and it was from a guy named Frank Watts. Like, anyway, so they so it showed a little bit of promise, and then the second or third or fourth session, Frank Watts got pushed off to the side, and this person started speaking through, who was obviously much more intelligent than Frank Watts, right? And before long, and after that, and not too long after that, Jane started hearing a voice or or a or a language through her, which she would then start to speak, and he said, "Look, I." I don't have a name, but you can call me Seth. That'll do for now. It's you know, in in my in my reality, which is not physical, you would call me an energy personality essence.

Alex Ferrari 5:13
Okay.

David Cielak 5:14
So basically, like a psychological construct, but who's quite alive? Which is interesting. We can talk a little bit about that later, like the dream state, for example, dream dimension in which we all exist. So, at any rate, so something a lot more coherent started to come through Jane, and she would write. She would. She would tell her husband what it was, he'd write it down, and then, and then another development. Not long after that, is she would park her conjugate kind of off to the side and allow Seth to speak through her, and she was somewhat aware, but not fully, of what was being said. But she had the ability to edit if there was a topic. So I'll I'll just use one that I know of that comes to mind. I think it was oh reincarnation. I don't want any I don't want any part of that. So for a while she was blocking Seth's information about that until it became a little bit more acceptable, so she had she wasn't out of control, you know. It wasn't like a takeover job.

Alex Ferrari 6:28
So that's when Seth made itself appear. But the thing that I find fascinating about Seth and Jane is, and please correct me if I'm wrong. To my understanding, they were they were one of the first to channel publicly like this. There have been stories of channeling, and there's books on that were channeled in the 1800s and so on, and and probably older than that. Sure, but to be stated that they were channeled, but to be publicly, you know, holding session. And when I say publicly, I mean she wasn't on the Merv Griffin show or the Ed Sullivan Show, but but she was publicly publishing books and and putting things out there, and the only other person I can think of is Edgar Edgar Casey, who was kind of channeling, but it was a different sleeping prophet. The whole thing.

David Cielak 7:14
What channeling, in my opinion, shows is we have access through other portions of ourselves to other kinds of information and knowledge that has been, and if we think of time, there's two ways to look at time. Actually, there's more, but let's just say two linear, one second after another, and then there's a a way of looking at time is all time happens at the same time. So, for example, time is like a place. So, 1750, the year 1750 exists now. It's still it's still happening. I know this is this is a little bit of a stretch. However, I don't care. It's like, but if if you if you can come to grips with time is it's not mutually exclusive, right? So two things can be true at the same time. No pun intended. It's it's a so with that, channels, people who are able to allow other information through have been existent probably forever if we look at it in time time terms, which is cool. And why would that be? And I'll just I'll I'll put something forward, and it's we'll call them prophets or channels. So Jesus, Buddha, whoever you know. Part of their role is to help us to keep in mind spiritual or energetic truth, and sometimes they come through quite clearly. Other times there can be distortion. They can be idealized and turned into you know a religious figure and so forth.

Alex Ferrari 9:09
I completely get it. And everything that you're saying, if you if you notice, I'm not I'm not shocked. The concept of all all all lives are happening at the exact same time is a concept that's been brought up so many times, and I've asked channels while they were channeling about it. I've asked mystics about it. I've asked gurus about it, and even quantum physicists about it. I'm like, how is this? Because it makes the head hurt to think that 1750 is happening right now.

David Cielak 9:32
It does. It does. Until here's the cool thing about the Seth material. It's it's a weird thing that I discovered in, and I really like I was raised. I was going to be a marine scientist, right? So I was real science heavy, and I just I was shocked by this material because I was like channeling, get out of here. Really, really, really. Yeah, it's like I don't, you know. It's like, however, the materially, the material itself was so like

Alex Ferrari 10:08
Mind blowing

David Cielak 10:09
Because it writes from a helicopter view, looking at how we form reality, and I thought, okay, I'll put all the channeling stuff off my concern. We'll call them concerns. Like I didn't want to be known as a crazy. I didn't talk to anyone. Anyway, put it off to the side, but the material itself was so compelling that I thought, okay, well, I'll read this and I'm going to test it out because I don't trust this to be, you know, really people speaking through other people. Get out of here. I don't think so. So at any rate, so and that's a concern of many people, which I totally get because I was a true doubter, and I think the only way through some of the channeling materials and especially the Seth material is that you try it for yourself, and I don't mean try to channel, but you test it out. So if there's, you know, you want to talk about simultaneous lives, well, how do you access that? You access it through the dream dimension. So you learn to generate and incubate your own dreams. You do some past or future life regressions, and then you test. It's like, what do you get from that? You know, and so I think it's you. You become your own scientist, right? You test things out rather than blindly accept what something or someone says.

Alex Ferrari 11:39
So with Jane, you know we're talking about the '60s, or it's like '63, if I'm not mistaken, correct? When this started to

David Cielak 11:46
Yeah, late '63 is when Seth started quotes coming through.

Alex Ferrari 11:50
So at what point did did she ever doubt it? Did she ever go? Was she raised? Was she was she a Christian? Was she how was she raised? Like what religious background did she have?

David Cielak 12:00
Yeah, she had a pretty tough upbringing. Yeah, she was from a Christian background. Mom was really poor. She had osteoarth no rheumatoid arthritis. Was bedridden. She took it out on Jane. The father left very early in the in the piece. Jane was brutalized by her mother to be, you know, pretty Abused both, and then the the church weighed in, and there are hints of you know sexual impropriety. So it kind of a tough upbringing, very tough actually. Like, and and and that's putting it in the terms of the of the times. So if they were pretty straight up about it in these days, I think it would be horrific.

Alex Ferrari 12:47
Sure.

David Cielak 12:47
So, so with that with that kind of background, her doubts and her husband's. It's like so they brought in psychologists. They consulted with you know people that should know better, doctors, and really, those people had no clue. They really didn't, and so they were doubtful. They thought, you know, is this my is this my subconscious coming through? Am I, you know, do I have a multiple personality disorder? Like, so there were there were high doubts because of of the material and what they were receiving. So they didn't tell anyone, tell no one. It's like imagine if that happened to you. Like I just I can't imagine it really. Like it's it's pretty. But again, the quality of the content was so good that they kept going, and it was really-it wasn't every night they did it. Seth originally kind of arranged to have it on a twice a week basis, and so over over time there were over 1000 sessions, over 32 books and derivative books, probably around 50 all up. Over 4 million words were spoken by Seth over the, pardon me, over the 20 years. Wow! And that kind of you know, if it if you were to read all the books, and if you did two sessions a day, which is about that's about enough. It would take you four years to read it all. Wow! So it's like it's a it's a I I don't know of any other massive work like that, and it's and it's all helpful. It's helpful. There's no it's in my opinion it's dogma free. It's not like Seth is going. Oh, follow me. Do what I say. You know, like do this, do that, and it's so. It's really like, in my opinion, it's become the ultimate self-help book. You know, or ultimate kind of thing that way, where you do it yourself. You grow your spirituality. You don't rely on Buddha or Jesus. Not that they didn't have some good things to say, but there's some distortion and some dogma within all of those all of those realms, which turned me off eventually. Like some,

Alex Ferrari 15:16
Yeah, exactly. I agree. And then Robert, her husband, is is the one who did the transcriptions at the beginning?

David Cielak 15:21
Yeah, so he would no throughout the whole thing, and they tried various ways. But so he, they would do their I don't know. I think it was like Tuesday, Sunday, or Tuesday, Thursday every night, every all those two nights a week, and then you know 9-9:30, and the the sessions would go an hour, two hours, sometimes, sometimes longer. And Robert would sit across from Jane, who would go into a trance. You know, she was smoking cigarettes, having a glass of wine or a beer or something, and the dictation would start. Oh, and by the way, people that are interested, there are audio tapes of Seth speaking, which we have@sethcenter.com that you can listen to when he's speaking with a class. So Seth held a class through Jane at her apartment for a number of years, and there were over 100 100 classes. I think that my former partner now passed recorded. So we have those. It's fascinating because he's interacting with normal, regular people, right? Sure, and dealing with them and their issues and and concerns from a helicopter view, and and trying to help them. It's very it's it's lovely because he's funny, compassionate, strong, you know, unbeliev. He's earthy. It's it's pretty cool. I encourage people to have a listen if you can.

Alex Ferrari 16:59
She was a trance channel, so Seth kind of took over her. Even though Jane was in there, she was like just a little bit to the side. It's what I hear with a lot of channels, like they kind of just step aside and let exactly the energy come through. But I remember watching this is early on when we started Next Level Soul, and I was not familiar with the Seth material at all. Okay, and then in my travels, I came across Jane and a video on YouTube of her channeling, and I was looking at the way she channeled, and it seemed intense. At least that clip was like very passionate, very intense. Almost, I wouldn't say full body, but she was. I just saw her in a rocking chair, sitting there, and she's just like, but you people don't understand, and it's like very, very energetic, eyes open too, not eyes closed, but eyes open, and just really, you know, teaching and connecting with people, and I gotta believe, like in the 60, I mean, if that would have happened 10 years earlier, I think she would probably been burned at the stake, but in the '60s, but but in the '60s in America, that was the hippie movement. That was all of all that was going on. So it was a lot of the the quote unquote weirdos were open to that. There was the the summer of love, and that whole decade was all about that. But Jane is one of those sparks of the New Age movement that came out of the 60s, correct?

David Cielak 18:25
Yeah, absolutely. And really, before before the classes started, they held they had already had a number of years of sessions, right? So they were very cautious because they really did not want to lead anyone down a garden path, you know they were highly ethical and honest people, so they proceeded with a lot of caution.

Alex Ferrari 18:52
Yeah, it's not like it's not like they made it's not like they made billions of dollars off of this. You know, this was a mission. It was a mission.

David Cielak 18:58
They came from nothing, literally nothing, and then eventually they were able to have a comfortable lifestyle. But then it wasn't. They did never. They never became millionaires at any stretch. At to any stretch, unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to see it. And they really had some ideas about abundance and wealth, and which is a fascinating read, by the way. And so, you know, just to angle this a little bit, and it's one of the main themes of the material is you create your own reality. And how do we do that? And he's, you know, the simple message is you create it through your thoughts, emotions, and beliefs. And beliefs are like hardened thoughts, right? So his coaching is: if you don't like certain portions of your reality, you need to change them through changing your ideas and. Your thoughts and your beliefs, and you actually have to examine the contents of your conscious mind. What does that mean? It means you have to examine what do you believe about things. So I'll give you a I'll give you a great example. It's it's my own of fortunately and unfortunately, but when I I grew up, you know, pretty. lower lower middle class. My dad was a mechanic. My mom worked in a in an office. Any rate, we didn't have much, but we were comfortable enough, you know. But at any rate, the rich people who lived in the suburb next door were pretty wealthy, and the belief that I was raised with is, you know, to have a lot of money, you must have done something to get that. You know, you must have done something criminal, or you inherited it. You didn't really earn it, like money, and was a bad thing. So I carried that belief with me, and there was never enough money. Right, at any rate, so I carried that into my young adulthood. So I was always broke, in debt, you know, student loans up to my past my eyeballs, and I had nowhere else, and lots of debt. Any rate, I read the Seth material, and there's a whole section about your beliefs about wealth and abundance and all that. Any rate, I had nowhere to go except up, and so I had to really examine what did I believe about money and abundance and wealth and all that kind of stuff. And it's like it was actually quite shocking because I thought that was a negative thing. It's evil. Money is the root of all evil. All this kind of stuff. So I had to actually change my thoughts and beliefs, and I did. And over time, it's like you know, wealth or money can also be a good thing. You can support things that you want and good things in the world. So, at any rate, my own journey in that small section developed into creating, you know, large large companies and producing lots of wealth and value for people. At any rate, so it's just a small example of changing your beliefs will change your reality, right?

Alex Ferrari 22:24
Yeah, and very much so. So, how is that different from the the law of attraction manifestation talks that has become so popular in today's world? Is it, or is it similar?

David Cielak 22:35
It's similar. You know, to their credit, they brought in different different words, and you know I could pick bones with it, but it you know it's it's very similar. There's a lot more to it than that, and you know it's not just about changing your vibrational level. If lots of people, if you think about it, earn lots of money, and then it's all gone. What happened? So it's not just about your vibrational level; it's about your beliefs and ideas. If you still believe, let's say you earn a fortune as a business person, and then you lose it all, what's going on? There are some. from the Seth material perspective. Is you still have some beliefs and ideas in there that there's something? I'll just make it up, but it's suspect, or there's something wrong with great wealth, and so we see people like that. They build a fortune, they lose it. They build it, they lose it. Like, come on, what's you know,

Alex Ferrari 23:44
Or like lottery winners, yeah, lottery, like lottery winners all the time. Yeah, yeah, get all this.

David Cielak 23:49
Yeah, that would be a great, great story to chase around.

Alex Ferrari 23:52
So then it would be kind of like, to my understanding, then the beliefs that you have actually have some sort of, and we'll get a little bit into the woo here, but the belief system that you have, or the belief, the ideas, or the thoughts that have been turned into beliefs within yourself, they carry a vibration themselves or a frequency themselves, and that is attracting what that frequency is, one way or another. And then now this is just a theory at this point that I'm throwing out there, but it kind of makes sense because let's say you have this belief: money is bad, money is bad, money is bad, and you win the lottery. Well, within three years, the money's gone. And why is it? But if you give that same amount of money to someone who has a different belief system, they could turn that into a. They could help a billion people. They can make a company. It's just all about the the construct the the the form the framework

David Cielak 24:42
That's a good yeah that's a good so this this here's an additive piece to that Alex and that is we can hold two different beliefs at the same time I want money and I'll just use the money thing like whatever it's just you know. I want money. I'm worthy of of earning money, and at the same time, you think, and then they can have an opposing belief like, actually, I'm not a worthy person. I've done all this bad stuff in my life, and so there's two opposing beliefs there, and they're meeting and they're bumping, bumping up against each other. So it shows what that shows is when you have opposing beliefs, you can have two like opposing experiences, right? It could be like you could use that in terms of building a relationship. You know, I'm a loving. I can go. I'm a loving person, and then you can always you can also have a belief in there. It's like, yeah, but I'm not really a worthy person. Like I've done all this bad stuff in my life. So you can have two things going on, and so you start a relationship, and then it blows up. Start a you know it's more complicated than that. But I'm trying to, for demonstrative purposes, show that we can have two opposing beliefs at the same time that creates that reality.

Alex Ferrari 26:07
Yeah, and it's it's those beliefs. One could actually be a conscious relief belief, and another one could be a completely subconscious belief that you don't even know it's there. So you'd be like, why can't I have a good relationship? But in the back of your mind, you're like, oh, my parents had a horrible relationship, and my my only model is that love hurts. So, but something in the front says I want a loving relationship, but the back's like, oh God, anytime I get into a relationship, I don't want to be my parents, and and you don't even know it's there a lot of times. So well, pretty powerful.

David Cielak 26:37
You you don't know it's there, but at the same time, it's not buried very deeply. It's like it's there,

Alex Ferrari 26:42
Right, right, yeah, right, yeah.

David Cielak 26:44
Like if you if you examine your conscious mind, which isn't that hard. So it's like the process is a little bit like you watch your thoughts, and like what you just said about yeah, but my parents, like I don't want to re, I want a relationship, but I don't want one like my parents. Like so, it's kind of this again. It's it's mild, at least mildly opposing. So we create that reality, right? And then the people that don't have that, they go, "Oh no, I can have a relationship, and it can be lasting, enduring, and you know, so forth and so on. I don't have to be like my friend down the street's parents were always at each other, so it's yeah. So we create our reality with our beliefs, thoughts, and emotions, and those are the big drivers of the creation of our reality. And it's we you used the law of attraction, you know, I, I, it's a nice term, and Seth used it before Abraham did. Let's just put it out there, and it's it's more than attraction, though. And what I mean by that is, no, you actually create it. It's not that you attract it from somewhere, although it looks that way. So, in a relationship, you know, in in a reality, we put you want a relationship with a you know create a friend or a loving partner. You actually send invisible psychological detectives out to find the person that's best for each, usually, and then some people have the belief, right? That, and you'll be familiar with this probably, not not because your situation. No, they'll they'll go. I always attract losers,

Alex Ferrari 28:44
Right! Of course,

David Cielak 28:45
Right. Everyone's heard that kind of stuff,

Alex Ferrari 28:48
Of course.

Alex Ferrari 28:49
You believe that?

Alex Ferrari 28:50
My picker, my my picker's broken. Yeah, that's the oh, that my picker's broken. I can't never get a right guy, or I can't get a girl.

David Cielak 28:58
That's right. So you can see the belief and the idea there, and if you replay that often enough, it becomes a belief until you until you deal with whatever the internal beliefs and thoughts are and pause them, put them off to the side. It's like I don't have to believe that anymore. I'm worthy of having you know an equal partner, and we both love it, you know, all that, and then you can create that, and then the invisible, you know, law law of attraction can then start to work.

Alex Ferrari 29:33
Now, is there a Seth teaching that is constantly misunderstood? Is there a big teaching of of his that that people just get man they're not getting it

David Cielak 29:44
Law of attraction and here's the here's the next step up it's actually not a step it's like a flight of stairs but each and every day we wake up walk out the door. Go into the kitchen. We are actually creating the room, creating the coffee maker, creating a version of our partner, of our kids, based on our thoughts and beliefs. Right, and and you go out in the world. Oh, you're also creating the kitchen table. You're creating the egg on your plate, like literally, invisibly. But you are creating it. That's a big step up, and it's like what? There's no objective reality. There's not, so I know that's like it's not that people misunderstand that. It's that it's it's a giant step to the next thing. So when you're talking about law of attraction, I would say that's a step down from creating your own reality-it's just-it's just going. Oh, you-you get what you attract. You know, I mean, yeah, okay. How about you created all, everything? You created your birth. You created your life. You created all the relationships. You created your work. You created the kind of body that you want, like that's a giant step up, right? It's kind of that's a mind blower. And then the question, which I was always interested in, is like I was always curious, like how do things work? And I was curious about how do we, how is reality created? Well, we're just a rock floating around the sun, really. And then there was evolution, you know, just doesn't fit. And then there's the religions.

Alex Ferrari 31:52
No.

David Cielak 31:52
yeah. Well, yeah, got created in seven days. Then he took a break, like really, or six days. And anyway, it's just like this is like a cartoon character, you know. Really, it's like you're talking, you know, speaking from 2000 years ago. You're talking to intelligent people. It's like it's hard to buy this, right? Buy into it. So this answered the the material itself answered a lot of questions that I had in a non dogmatic. I don't have to go kneel down somewhere. Way about how did we get here? What's this all about? How do we create our own realities? And I'm still like I'm studying and I'm still learning a lot. Obviously, you know, if you could see my life, you'd know. Anyway, it's a lot closer to accurate than well. If I pray to X and ask for all the stuff that I want, you know, I might have a chance. You know, or it's if I talk to other wealthy people, I'll become wealthy too. It's like really, come on. So at any rate, it's a lot further down the reality track that when I look into oh, we create our own realities, we create everything. The next question is how does that happen? So we talked about like thoughts and beliefs and emotions and all that kind of thing, but we haven't talked about the fact. Just take it on speculation that we're much bigger than we think we are. We're a lot more complicated than we know ourselves to be, so we actually exist according to Seth. And I, I'm starting. I, I'm not starting, but I already believe it now after many years that we create our realities through the help of the dream dimension. So we exist in other dimensions. So there's an Alex that lives in the dream state constantly. By the way, it's not just when he's asleep. And there's a David, and there's a everyone in the world, all exist in that dream dimension. And then we decide in that dream dimension which events we want to create, right? So we're actually an event-forming group of people and individuals. So we do it individually and in mass. And I've I've proven this to myself, like, and I'm still surprised by it. However, and I know how crazy this sounds. Trust me,

Alex Ferrari 34:43
David. Anyway, you're on the you're you're on the right show, sir. None of that one thing you've said has even raised an eyebrow for me. Really, not one. Okay, don't don't call. This is your people. This these are your people, my friend. Don't worry. Don't worry.

David Cielak 34:58
Oh, good. Thank you. Yeah, that's what. Yeah, I've got an escape hatch out here. Like, at any rate, so you know, so exploring that and then proving it to ourselves-that's where it's at. Like, in my opinion, because if we create our own reality, so what do you want to? What do we want to create today? What do I want to create in my life? What do I want to create in the world if I can help in some way? That's what I, you know, that's kind of where it's at for me at the at present time, and I don't have to struggle around it either. I don't have to work myself into the grave about it, not into it.

Alex Ferrari 35:35
So you mentioned religion and and the dogma and all that kind of stuff. Seth actually had a really interesting take on Jesus and Christianity, which was pretty revolutionary for its day. It's still actually quite revolutionary.

David Cielak 35:51
I think it is, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 35:52
Even even even today, but you know, a lot of other things have happened since Seth said this stuff, so there people are a lot more open to different interpretations of Christ's life, Christ's teachings, what he actually said, where the what the Bible says, the historical document. There's a lot of stuff going on that wasn't available at the time that Seth said what he what you're going to talk about right now, but it's not at least for me. It's not surprising when I saw it, though. I was like, "Ooh, that's interesting. I haven't heard it that put that way. So, can you talk a little bit about what he said about Christianity and the historical Jesus Christ?

David Cielak 36:33
Yeah, I will, and I don't mind if you add in too because I have I have recovered as a Catholic, as a former Catholic,

Alex Ferrari 36:44
I'm still recovering purely because I feel guilty about it.

David Cielak 36:49
But you got to get rid of the guilt, mate.

Alex Ferrari 36:56
Yeah, I know. Tell me, tell me, tell me about it. But I think, but I think I and I and I'll say this, and and please correct me if I'm wrong. I think we both still have a very deep connection to Christ and the true Christ and the true Christ teachings without the crap, without the dogma, without the guilt. Oh yeah, you know, like the love, yeah, the love. What what he yeah

David Cielak 37:16
The pieces of it. It's like the message. So you know, we were talking about channels, and we mentioned briefly prophets that come through and the purpose of them, and obviously we'll just call it you know Jesus. And from the Seth material perspective, Seth came through, and it was like he said there was actually no one who was Jesus. A there were some personages that were around at the time, and what has happened is it has your the culture has created the myth of Jesus as a man, as one person, for its own for its own purposes, and he talked about the you know several of the apostles, Paul and Peter and and their role in the in the drama and his point was you have created a myth around this and some of the messages that were were given have become distorted right and so the the myth, like all the the Greek myths back in the day, that people took that as real. And so in the past, we'll just make it up, but say 7500 years. No, actually longer than that. Longer than that is people have taken the message and taken what they want from the message, like a you know the the commandments, which some of them are really quite good. Killing's bad. Don't do it. Like you know, really like that's a good start. Like you know what that could be. That could be it. And you know George Carlin had a great

Alex Ferrari 39:04
Bit,

David Cielak 39:05
A great comedy routine where he basically took the 10 Commandments and got them down to like I think two or three. Yeah, well worth a listen, by the way. Anyway,

Alex Ferrari 39:13
Great.

David Cielak 39:14
So so Seth took it, and he he wasn't afraid to really front up to modern day views of of the Christ drama and say that's not how it was, but it was quite instructive. And then he said, "But there were a lot of people that were interested at the time in jumping into the role of Jesus, right, of being the guy. And I believe he also said that there was no crucifixion, didn't happen. Sorry.

Alex Ferrari 39:48
So, so before we get before before we get into the crucifixion, because I'm dying to hear about this. No pun intended. He did claim that Jesus was. He did claim. That Jesus was three people: Jesus of Nazareth, John the Baptist, and Saul. And is it Saul? Right? Yeah, Saul. Yeah, Paul. What? Not not Paul, but Paul or Saul?

David Cielak 40:15
Paul. Paul. Oh, so yeah. You keep going. Go ahead.

Alex Ferrari 40:18
Okay, so Paul, Paul, the writer of the New Testament.

David Cielak 40:24
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 40:25
Interesting. Okay, all right. So yeah, tell me.

David Cielak 40:27
So yeah, so the other thing is this area is pretty deep. Okay, and like because I I don't have that much interest in it. I know you do, which is fine, and many people do, and there are people that have you know studying this area, and and Seth has commented on you know there'll be return of the Christ entity, and I think it is Paul, or it's either Peter or Paul. At any rate, they want to return because when they look at what has happened over the Earth, Seth's view of it was they feel it's unfinished, right? They got unfinished business here on planet Earth, and this is in a linear way. And I think he said, was it something like by 2075 that the major religions will be crumbling, you know, terribly. So there'll be a new a new prophet will not be widely recognized initially for who he is or she he, and that man's consciousness will look quite different. People will be able to, especially in familial relationships, be able to look at each other and see their incarnational relations with each other. So, if you, if I looked at you, Alex, I'd be able to see the personages, the reincarnations that you've had over your that are a part of you. So, if you've got eight or 10 other, I'll just make it. I'm making this up. Okay, eight or 10 people, I'd be able to see that, and and families would be able to see that too. So, oftentimes, according to Seth, Alex is a dad to two daughters in this incarnation. His daughters may have been. A father to Alex, who was a girl, right? So it's kind of we they trade off playing roles. We trade off playing roles in order to learn and take on various characteristics. So so

Alex Ferrari 42:57
So a soul family essentially.

David Cielak 42:59
Yeah, except except they trade places, and there's it's not it's not a closed system. There are no closed systems, right? And so that there's you know we have abilities to learn, you know, and and things to create from those. It's like like can you imagine you know walking down the street or in your family, like seeing, oh my God, my daughter was my wife in another, in another lifetime.

Alex Ferrari 43:27
Yeah, when you bring in the concept of the soul family, from my understanding and from the research I've done, is that you're absolutely correct, and Seth is actually absolutely correct. Is that we trade off constantly, but there's groups of souls that just decide to incarnate together in multiple lives, and sometimes they skip lives, and sometimes they don't. But sometimes I'm your mother, you're my father, my father, you're my mother, you're my brother, you're my sister, and sometimes there's a dear friend of the family that happens to be intertwined with the family. So there's always groups, but there's this kind of soul family that there's large amounts of souls that kind of

David Cielak 43:59
Yeah, and they're they're flow in and out, like it's correct. Yeah, it's not fixed. Like I don't know about you, Alex, but within my family, so I've got three adult daughters, and you know the relationships between us are very different. And one, I'm pretty sure we've done something together in in other lives. It's like Jesus, really, and and others not so much, but still close loving relationships, but still significant differences that you can actually feel at least at this point in time.

Alex Ferrari 44:33
Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty magical. So now you also mentioned that Jesus wasn't crucified. I've heard this concept that that because there's many there's actually text, historical text about Jesus's life after the crucifixion, and that he had children, and he was married to Mary Magdalene, all that stuff. What did, according to Seth, what did what happened if there was no physical execution of Jesus of Nazareth?

David Cielak 44:58
I don't know.

Alex Ferrari 45:01
Yeah, we got yeah we got to that part.

David Cielak 45:02
I don't think I was there. Yeah, it's like, like

Alex Ferrari 45:06
According to Seth. According to Seth, I meant

David Cielak 45:08
Yeah. According to Seth, what? So what happened? I don't know that he went into that. I can't recall it. I I mean, obviously, what there were when we look at the you know the the Christ. We'll call it the drama, Christ drama, that we create in order to learn something, right? And you know, another of the big, well, we'll just call it symbolic lesson is he rose from the dead,

Alex Ferrari 45:39
Right.

David Cielak 45:39
Well, so one of the things that is trying to be taught at a basic level is that I'll use a Seth a Seth quote if you don't mind.

Alex Ferrari 45:51
Sure,

David Cielak 45:52
You're as dead now as you're ever going to be.

Alex Ferrari 45:54
Makes sense.

David Cielak 45:55
You're as dead dead now as you're ever going to be. So it means, and the in the Christ drama. He rose from the dead, right? So he's trying to show it's like, oh, there's life after death. You, your consciousness continues to go on. Is the idea, and so when we mention the dream dimension, when we pass, and you know the NDE people have experienced this, and if if you're a lucid dreamer or out of body experience person, which I strongly encourage people to travel that path because it helps you understand what your what what it's going to be like to a degree post post your passing. You're going to be a psychologic. You're not going to have to, you know, eat every day. You're not going to have to do that. So your consciousness will continue on in a psychological way. You'll have a body for a while, but at any rate, you're not going to, you won't need it, right later on. But because you're used to having a body, you'll you'll carry one for a bit. So the idea is that by learning and experiencing your dreams and getting good with that, having some lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences, you start to realize that your thoughts can instantly create a reality. So if you're in a lucid dream, you just go the pyramids, and you're there. So your thought immediately turns into a reality. Whereas where in our in our reality, where we're talking now, it takes a while, right? Oh yeah, I want to go to the pyramids. Well, I got to get on the bus, take it to the ship, take the ship over. You know, pop, pop, pop. It's it's a linear. So we're we're in a beginning training school, kind of, in learning that our thoughts have an an instant impact, but in in normal waking reality, it takes a while. In dream reality, in certain states like lucid dreams, you can have a thought and you're instantly you've created it. And so we have to learn that so that our creations are good ones, right? Like you don't want crappy creations because you didn't take care with the instant kind of creations that we'll be able to have later.

Alex Ferrari 48:31
Yeah, and and from my understanding as well, like in a dream state, you like, hey, I want to be in the pyramid, and you're in the pyramid, but you're you're there. It's instant. In this reality, it's a lot denser, a lot heavier. So when you do start having these thoughts, it takes a lot longer for things. It's not going to just. I want to buy. I want a bicycle. Bicycle's not going to show up. And to be honest, thank God, because we're we're not the brightest sometimes with what we want, and we think we want, and we think we want something, and you're like, and thank God it doesn't come because if I imagine 20 year old with the power to create their reality, I mean the debauchery. It would be scary.

David Cielak 49:12
It would be more than scary. Yeah, yeah, and all the you know for

Alex Ferrari 49:17
Some of our politicians as well, if they had that power as well, would be terrifying.

David Cielak 49:21
Yeah, exactly. Well, and that you know, politics. Thank you for bringing that up. In in Australia, it's called the Dorothy question. Ask say something that you want me to talk about, right? You know, like we look at today's political landscape really around the world, and one of the main things that Seth talks, one of the main things which is I think very powerful, is the means that we use need to be worthy of the ends that we're trying to achieve. Right. So if you want a, you can't just bully people. To get what you want, you have to use excellent, good, ethical, honest means to achieve world peace. For example, like to achieve to achieve peace through bombing the crap out of everyone.

Alex Ferrari 50:14
Not so much. You know,

David Cielak 50:14
The the means are not quite there, right?

Alex Ferrari 50:17
It's not aligned energetically, not aligned.

David Cielak 50:20
Exactly. Yeah, but the mean means to the end.

Alex Ferrari 50:24
Sure,

David Cielak 50:24
The means have to be worthy of the ends that we're trying to achieve. So you know, if we remember one thing from today, remember that one. Like you can't to get what you want or to create what you want. Your means have to be worthy, honest, ethical, so forth and so on. At any rate,

Alex Ferrari 50:44
So so with Seth though in the 60s he influenced and Jane and him influenced a tremendous amount of people. Some that came to mind after I was doing research is Jim Henson, Robert Monroe, who was oh Jonathan the the guy who wrote Jonathan

David Cielak 51:04
Richard Bach

Alex Ferrari 51:05
Yeah Richard Bach as well and there's and and there's probably so many others that like Seth was essentially kind of a a stone that was dropped into a pond and the ripples are still going to this day as

David Cielak 51:19
Great analogy, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

Alex Ferrari 51:23
Yeah, yeah.

David Cielak 51:23
I reckon you know it's still. I question myself. Like I find myself, you know, the head of the Seth Center. It's like, how did I get here? Like, but when I look at it objectively, like, is there value in the material for today? I think I truly believe that there is. It's not for everyone. I tell you, this is a it's a difficult read. Like when I read some of this, I'll read a paragraph and I'll go what, and I'll read it again because I didn't get it, and it's still that way to this day. Not quite, but you know, most it has has its moments where I'm trying to figure it out, and it's like the layers of an onion. It's still valuable today, I believe. It's probably the best guidebook to how we create our own personal, individual, and mass realities that exist. I don't know of anything better to this date, and I stopped. You're in such a great position, Alex, to be able to talk to you know everyone. But I stopped. I stopped comparing and contrasting a while back because I'm too busy trying to create some other stuff in my you know in my reality, that it's like I don't I don't need to keep doing that. I don't mind bumping up against it and reading it a little bit, but you know you can spend a lifetime comparing and contrasting and never get on with it. That makes sense, you know. So,

Alex Ferrari 52:58
And

David Cielak 52:58
What do you want to What do you want to create?

Alex Ferrari 53:00
Exactly, exactly, and of in. that time period when Seth was coming out, is were there? I mean, does it? It sounds to me like the main thesis of set the Seth material is about creating your reality and the power that you have. Is that generally the big broad stroke? I'm sure Seth talked about many things, but that seems to be what you keep bringing up. So it sounds like that's the core. If there's a core teaching, it's about that.

David Cielak 53:30
It is, yeah. You create your own reality from the inside out, which is becoming more a more common phrase, and then being able to apply that, like I'll just use medicine right now, Western medicine, which is basically you know across the world these days with some minor subgroups of of other kinds of belief systems. Currently, Western medicine looks at things from, you know, we create stuff from the outside in. Like, oh, you need you got a hurt knee? We'll replace it. You got cancer? We'll zap it with a, you know, you know, cancer treatment with a poison. We'll kill you. Look, I love my like I've got medical colleagues and I I love them to death. Unfortunately, they're started. They have missed out that illness and disease are meaningful, right? There's actually meaning behind symptoms, and those are messages from our inner selves. It's like, hey, pay attention. You know what's what. Haven't you been focused? What do you need to focus on in your life? And if we refuse to focus, our inner selves will want us to see the issues, and so it will create a dilemma that we need to. So, it instead of zapping it, you can't you can't heal ultimately an interior issue with an exterior treatment. You might you might zap it for a while; it will come back either as the same symptom set or and a different symptom set. Your inner self is not fooled. It it knows so much more than we do about the reasons that we're here and the things that we're trying to solve or resolve. Right. So it's like it's kind of a this may sound quite harsh. However, it's like if I'm not willing to deal. Time's up. You know, can't deal with it on this real. You won't deal with it. You refuse. Okay. Well, there's. You'll get another life, or you will pick another life and attempt to resolve the issues in that. In that, we'll just call it next life. So it's kind of like we've got a long way to go,

Alex Ferrari 56:03
Right?

David Cielak 56:03
As a as a universal culture, but that's okay. It's because time's simultaneous. Like that's you know you won't learn it here. Well, it doesn't matter. Like next, and that is that's you too. There's other issues at play. Obviously, I'm keeping this very straightforward, right?

Alex Ferrari 56:24
Yeah. So if if you don't want to learn it in this lesson, well, guess what? You're already learning it somewhere else at the exact same time that you're not learning it here.

David Cielak 56:31
Yeah. You know, like I I know this conversation got a little heavy just now, but you know that's okay. The other thing is, we have amazing resources, and Seth said something like, and I'll paraphrase it, but it's pretty true. All your problems, you have the answers to them here and now in this day. You can get them through the dream dimension. You can get them through reflection, meditation. There's lots of ways, but all the answers are there, and you also have those other lives because there's constant bleed through from your other reincarnations into this life, and you have access to those other lives in the dream state, in the dream dimension, within inner reality. So, whatever you want to solve, it may seem insoluble. You can actually gain access in your sleep. Ask for it. You can incubate dreams around resolving various things. So that's hopeful. Like that's that's a huge asset. And then the other piece, and I'll I'll stop, but for a moment, is so there's a probable Alex, and I'm going to make this up, but maybe it's true. Did you live in LA for a while, by any chance? Okay. Yes. So there's an Alex that stayed in LA, right? And there's a David. Like I'm in Australia now, and I live between U.S. and Australia. But there's a David that just stayed in the U.S. He never went to Australia and started another life. So we have probable selves, and those probable selves exist in the dream state and in in another parallel. We'll just call it parallel reality, and we have access to all of their solutions to the issues that they resolved in their realities, and they're quite separate to ours, but still related, and they're still bleed throughs.

Alex Ferrari 58:51
Yeah, well,

David Cielak 58:51
So that's on the edge of a reality, isn't it? Like, if if anyone can't follow that. I'm sorry. My apologies.

Alex Ferrari 59:03
Oh no, no. Again, your head starts to hurt after a while. Yeah, if you start thinking about how many parallel realities, and then your dream state, and out of body, and the ethereal, this astral plane, and you start getting into a lot of this stuff, it does. It does hurt the brain because our brain is not capable. The hardware is not capable of handling the the data that we're talking about.

David Cielak 59:24
Well, it's changing. It's changing the. No, it is. I'll just

Alex Ferrari 59:29
But the amount the the amount of data is what I'm talking about. We can't process the amount of data. Process the concepts, but not the amount. Yeah. Yeah.

David Cielak 59:39
Yeah. Yeah. So those concepts can be quite mind expanding, like really. And but here's the other one too: is our senses. We think, oh, our senses allow information and data in. That's true. There's another way of looking at it too. They. Also filter out data, information, and feelings, so they serve that purpose. And so, people that have revelatory experiences, and I've had a number-not a huge amount, but enough. Trust me, enough. It's enough. It's where more data comes in, and it's like it's like drinking the most rich drink you can imagine, like a like chocolate milk when we were kids, right? It's like I want more of that, and it's but it's like that on some super stimulant, and it opens up, and you bring you allow that information, those feelings, in, and you have a revelatory experience. You see the reality behind the reality. Some people call bringing up the veil, and you see your connection with everything, and that everything's conscious and alive. And you have it as a-it's an experience, right? It's not just a concept. No, no, it's a true experience, and it's it's a meal that lasts forever, right? So by opening ourselves to some of these concepts, like we were talking about today, when people have those, other people go, "Ooh, I want to have that too, Right, and so the way to have that is to when you're making a meal, you have to gather the ingredients and you have to break the eggs to create the meal, and so we have to basically look at some of our beliefs and assumptions about reality and allow the allow an opening that reality is more than we suspect, and by doing that, we open the door to having some of these revelatory experiences. Some people will call it enlightenment, or spacious mind experience, or higher intellect. Whatever they they they can be quite different. Or at any rate, within the material, you do it to yourself all the time. So

Alex Ferrari 1:02:12
Sure, yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. Now, has Seth in any of the Seth material? Does he ever do predictions about the future of humanity. Just curious. I don't know. I have no idea.

David Cielak 1:02:24
Yeah, yeah. So I mentioned one earlier. He rarely does, and and the reason why is there are probable realities, right? And he can he can zero in on probabilities for people, and so in probability theory, you can predict so the likelihood of something occurring is you know 80 90% which is a pretty good figure, right? And then, but then there's other probabilities where if you turn left instead of turning right as you usually do, this is what's going to happen, and it can be quite different. So, if Alex stayed in L.A. what would have happened? If David stayed in the U.S. what would have happened? And you can you can track that. So, look, I'll give you some predictions that he did do, and I mentioned one of them. He said by 2075, Five, the third piece of the Christ entity will reappear, and consciousness will begin to have changed. It will already have been changing, but the person will be able to be speaking to. He'll be able to shift people's perspective on you create your own reality, right? And that the point of anyone's power is in the present moment, right? So those two concepts is a is a concept that can then go viral worldwide and create basically an entire new species of humanity.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:09
New concept.

David Cielak 1:04:10
So he did. He did do that one.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:12
Okay. And the religions will break apart. The major religions will break apart by 2075.

David Cielak 1:04:17
They're they're already crumbling. Like I don't know how. You can see the rest of these things. You can see it. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:04:21
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

David Cielak 1:04:21
And which is that's fine. Like, you know, I know lots of people believe in certain kinds of evolution. That's fine, and I do too. So there can be evolutions of consciousness too. And so, obviously, things like wars. Do we really need to kill people anymore? I mean, really? Like, come on! You know, why would why would any good alien want to come to a planet where they're they're killing each other? Like, really? Let's pass that one by. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, it's interesting. So he did that. Like he on a personal level. I'll just give you an. Example, which blew my head. There's a book that Jane wrote in Trance, and it's a novel called I don't know if you've read it, The Education of Oversoul Seven.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:11
No, that's interesting.

David Cielak 1:05:13
Haven't heard of that. So it's a fictional work. She wrote it in Trance, and

Alex Ferrari 1:05:18
So Seth wrote Seth wrote it.

David Cielak 1:05:20
Yeah, yeah, it's a trilogy. Anyway, I am. I don't know why this happened because I never read the book, wasn't interested. I like the the factual stuff. Anyway, and I asked my partner Rick at the time. I go, you know, who's got the intellectual property? I'd love to make this into a movie. He goes, oh yeah, it was sold to somebody, you know, decades ago. He hasn't done anything with it, and I thought, yeah, let's find him, you know. Anyway, through a crazy number of synchronicities, I found this guy, and now we're working together to create this movie.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:00
Good,

David Cielak 1:06:00
And it's like, and it it highlights metaphysical aspects of creation and reality and all that. You know, it's a good story, and but it. So there's that piece. I found the guy, and I'm listening to. We've turned a lot of the Seth material into audio books now, including personal sessions, which is a group of books where Seth was giving information just to Jane and Rob for their about their lives. At any rate, I'm listening to this stuff, and he goes, "Oh, by the way, the Education of Over Soul Seven will be a movie. It will be. And it's like, what? He's talking. about me. Like we've gotten the script written, you know. We're looking around for you know line producers and budget makers and so forth. You know the process, I'm sure. At any rate, he's like he's made a prediction that affects me. You know personally, so it's kind of like yeah, but he doesn't often do it rarely, just not not into it. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:07:10
Any other any any anything yet? So the 2075 with the religions and the Christ energy will come back. Those are two. Those are pretty big ones. It is. Those are pretty. Those are pretty big ones,

David Cielak 1:07:21
And if you think about it, that person would have been born by now.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:24
Correct, technically, somewhere.

David Cielak 1:07:28
Well, or is in the is in is in incubation period, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:07:31
Or or is in about.

David Cielak 1:07:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. So, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:07:40
So so

David Cielak 1:07:41
You know our our our culture. We'll just say the culture of the world. It could go off in many directions, right? It could. There's not just one. Like I want to be in a good one myself, right? But it could go down the gurgler. But that doesn't mean that it life is at the end, as we know it, like it just it changes, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:08:03
Now, if somebody was going to start with to dive into the Seth materials, where should they start?

David Cielak 1:08:08
Yeah, it's in the order of publication. So, one book, the first one is the Seth material, which is based on the first 500 sessions, so the early stuff, and then following that is a book called Seth Speaks. I have this one here. Seth Speaks. It's called. That's the first book that Seth dictated himself.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:32
Okay,

David Cielak 1:08:33
And and then following that, which is probably some people believe this to be the best book ever written, And it's called the nature of personal reality: specific practical techniques for solving everyday problems and enriching the life that you know. Yeah, and by the way, I'm will be teaching a class based on these two books, myself and two colleagues, and that's starting october 1, you know, so you can get these books anywhere. There's there were over 10 million copies of the Seth material books sold over time, and many of them got passed to other people. So the readership was actually huge.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:21
When Jane died, by the way, when Jane died, what happened to all this material? Because there was so much material. Like, what happened to it? Like, I know Edgar Cayce has the the the the organization that cataloged it all and put it all together, and it and it's a resource for people. What happened to it before? How did you get him? How did you get it? Since you weren't directly attached, like how did I get it?

David Cielak 1:09:49
It's a long story. Let's go into it another time. It's pretty cool, actually, what happened. But so where it is now is all of the originals. I would. Say most of it is in the Yale University Special Collections Library at New Haven. So people early on recognized that this was super valuable, and so they made an arrangement with one of their their editor Tam Bossman, and they made an arrangement before their death, that all the materials would go there. All the books are still are still being published, both in the U.S. and Canada and internationally too, around 1215, different languages at least, and so we've we've translated them into Spanish, and it's publishing industry is a complicated thing. Anyway, don't I don't want to go there. Anyway, so yes, so it's all in it's all in print. There's new stuff, derivative kinds of books coming out from time to time. One of the things that I'm looking forward to is there's so much around health, wellness, illness, disease, creating exuberant health that deserves a book of its own, and it it I'm looking forward to publishing something in that in that realm, it's not going to happen next week. I'll tell you. But so let me ask you. Yeah, go ahead.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:27
So let me ask you this: If Seth would speak through Jane today, and Jane was around today, what do you think Seth would say about the world as he sees it now?

David Cielak 1:11:37
What do I think of it? Yeah, I think we're on the right track. We're on the right track, and you know, just having this conversation today, for example, will touch many people. You know, some people will run screaming down the street. Others will go, "Oh, that's interesting. Really, this is this is the granddaddy of of channeling. This is the you know, this is the the golden thing. Yeah, it kind of is. I mean, I've compared and contrasted, and then I finally gave it up. You know, like so. There's a lot of value there for people that are interested, but unfortunately, fortunately, and unfortunately, it's a it's a bit of work. You actually have to work it a little bit meaning you have to read it. There, Alex. There's over 700 exercises, processes, and techniques across the materials that you actually have. You know, you can read it and get something. There's great juice in there, but if you want to, you know, change how you create your reality and be effective in your world. You actually have to do some things. You have to examine your beliefs and ideas. So that's all in there. Yeah, a bit of a slog, but it's not too hard. You know, you can study with other people and attend classes that we hold. You know, so there's ways.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:02
And where can people find out more about Seth?

David Cielak 1:13:06
You can't. It's a it's a secret, mate. Like no,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:11
End scene. Okay.

David Cielak 1:13:14
See ya. Bye. Bye. No, no. Now, if you're, if anyone's interested, go up To sethcenter.com, you'll see all the stuff that we have on offer. Start to read the Seth material. That's a good start. Yeah, and you know, have a have a bit of a look around. Try the reading. See if it's for you, and then that's the way forward. I'd say there's oh by the way there is a Seth. Just by chance, there's a Seth conference on, and it's a freebie. It's on the 19th and 20th

Alex Ferrari 1:13:52
Of

David Cielak 1:13:52
Of September. So

Alex Ferrari 1:13:55
This this will be released after that, probably.

David Cielak 1:13:58
Yeah, yeah. It leads you. It leads you into that. It's um, but it's a different. It's weird conference. It's like I'm not afraid to take a few risks. So the conference, each speaker with I think we've got about 30, has 15 minutes. That's it. Like you know, there's none of this hour long thing that you have to suffer through. So you get to meet a bunch of people that are either into the materials or have an aspect to it. So check it out;

Alex Ferrari 1:14:28
It's amazing. Well, David, thank you so much for for being on the show today and and really explaining to us who Seth was, who Jane was, and and explaining the the the brilliance of the teachings. And I appreciate that you took the mantle of of these teachings to bring it out, man, and to bring it out to the world. I mean, if not, it would be sitting in a box somewhere, you know. So yeah, you know what? Thank you.

David Cielak 1:14:55
Thanks. Yeah, I'll look, look, yeah. We just, you know, I think it's so. Valuable for people to examine this for themselves. Like it's, you know, I don't really care. Like I don't need to make money. I've done all that in my in my past. So yeah, if I can, if we can help by turning some people that are interested onto it, that's great. Anyway, thanks, Alex. Appreciate.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:19
I appreciate appreciate you, my friend. Thanks.

David Cielak 1:15:22
Yeah. Cheers. All right. Bye now.