Divine Encounters Episode 115 | Near-Death Experience Story
Anton Grosz was 37, a scientist who had never thought much about God, when a meditation habit led to an out-of-body moment that changed the way he understands reality. In this Divine Encounters episode he tells Alex Ferrari what he says happened the following weekend: pain, a tunnel of light, a space of brightness with more dimensions than he could name, and a prayer he says came out of him on his knees. He also shares the college lesson he believes prepared him for it.
Key Takeaways
- Anton says he was 37 and “hadn’t thought about God at all” when he took up meditation and found he was a natural at it.
- He describes one night suddenly finding himself below the ceiling, looking down at his own head, with no fear at all.
- He says that the next weekend, a second attempt led to intense physical sensations that he later recognized in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, then a light, a tunnel and a space of brightness beyond anything he could have imagined.
- Anton describes a feeling of many more dimensions than three, and a peace he says he cannot put into words.
- He says his first words when he could move were “I am reborn in God,” and that his life made a complete right turn.
- He recalls a college psychology test that taught him to trust what he himself experiences, and a voice that later told him why he had waited so long.
- His message: strip away the adjectives and we all share the same feeling of I am. Why would anyone hurt someone they know is themselves?
| Guest | Anton Grosz |
| Episode | Divine Encounters 115 |
| Age at the time | 37 |
| Life before | A scientist who had not thought about God, with a new meditation habit |
| What Anton says happened | A first out-of-body moment during meditation, then a second, much stronger experience a week later |
| Where he says he went | Below the ceiling, then through a tunnel of light into a bright space with many dimensions |
| Who he met | No individual beings; he describes a vast peace and a greater reality |
| The message | We are one, and the adjectives that divide us are not who we are |
Who Is Anton Grosz? A Scientist Who Tried Meditation
Anton is direct about where he started. He was 37 years old. “Hadn’t thought about God at all.” But he had picked up meditation, he says, and it created peace inside. It was very, very peaceful, and he felt he was a natural at it.
Being a scientist, he says, he is used to proving everything. That matters for the story that follows, because he comes to it the way a researcher would: with curiosity, and a wish to test.
The Night He Found Himself Near the Ceiling
One night, meditating before bed because it calmed him down and he had a big day at work the next day, Anton was sitting on a couch looking at a candle flame. For reasons he cannot explain, his breathing had gone very still. Suddenly he was below the ceiling, looking down at his own head.
His first thoughts were almost comic. “If this is me up here, who’s that down there?” He says he took a breath, went back into his body and thought, wow, that’s cool. He was not afraid at all.
Then the scientist in him kicked in. He wondered whether the way he had been breathing, or not breathing, was what did it. He wanted to try again, and thought that if he stayed out longer he could look around more.
The Following Weekend
The next weekend, Anton’s wife was downtown shopping with their daughter. His nine-year-old son was playing in his room. He decided it was a good day to try leaving his body again.
We are going to leave out how he went about it. He did not take lightly what he describes, and he stresses that he did nothing foolish. But this was a risky experiment with his breathing, and Next Level Soul does not suggest anyone try anything like it. Anton shares it as the way his story happened, not as a method.
What matters is what he says came next. He felt pain in the body. He began shaking as if in an earthquake. Then he felt as if he were drowning in a flood, and then as though he were burning up in a fire.
Earth, Water, Fire, Air and Ether
Later, Anton says, he learned that the Tibetan Book of the Dead describes steps like these in the process of leaving the body: the loss of the earth element, the water element, then the fire element. The next is air, which he says he had already given up. The only thing holding him to his body, as he puts it, was the ether element, which sounds pretty nebulous to him.
In the moment, he says, he asked himself whether he was conscious, and concluded he must be, because an unconscious body would be breathing. The pain got worse. Then he realized he was dying. He remembers saying to himself, “No, God won’t let me die while I’m looking for him.” He stops there. What did I just say, he thought?
Readers curious about this tradition can browse our glossary entry on the bardo.
A Light, a Tunnel and a Space of Brightness
Then he saw a little light on the top of his head. It grew bigger and bigger. He thought: that must be the tunnel from Raymond Moody’s book, Life After Life. He says his wife’s sister had read it after her husband died young, and she passed it to him. It had left him wondering whether body and mind are really separate.
He says he went through. He was in a space of brightness, “more incredible than anything I could have ever believed existed.” Greater, brighter. And with it a feeling of far more dimensions. He says we think of three, but that is nothing. “There are so many more.”
He also describes a peace that he struggles to name: “the peace, the comfort, the joy, the wonders.” Alex, he says, I can’t tell you.
Back in the Body, and a Son at the Door
At this point, he says, his body took a breath and fell off the bed. It moved around the floor in distress while inside he remained at peace. His wife came into the room, having driven home from shopping. Their son had already gone out to meet her in the driveway, to put her mind at ease. He told her, “Daddy’s not dead.”
As he rolled on the floor, Anton says, he felt wires pulled out of his head like an old telephone switchboard. Then they were put back, but in a different place. He says he could not understand any of it then.
“I Am Reborn”
When he could finally control his body, the first thing Anton did was end up on his knees, hands folded in front of his face. His first words, he says, were, “I am reborn in God.” He was embarrassed to hear himself say it.
But “my life made a complete right turn at that point.” He says he knew that everything people have said about God was true: “there is a greater reality.” It may not be provable by Newton’s laws, he says, but it exists. From then on, everything was different, and “I know what I experienced.”
The College Test That Taught Him to Trust Himself
Anton shares a story from his college years in the early 1960s, when five dollars was a lot of money. A sign on campus advertised psychological testing, so he signed up. In the last room there were five desks with panels of red and green lights and buttons. A professor told the group it was a test of reaction speed: push the button under the color you see, faster and faster, until someone misses.
At one point, Anton says, a beep sounded. Someone had made a mistake. He and the person next to him disagreed about whether the light had been red or green. Voices rose. He insisted he knew what he saw. Then the professor held his arms and said, “easy, son, it was red.” It was not a test of speed. “It’s a test to how you handle peer pressure.” He told Anton, “You stood up for what you experienced.”
Anton had pushed that memory out of his mind, he says, until after his experience. Sitting on the couch crying, he asked why he had to wait so long to learn that God exists. A small voice answered: “if you knew this from the beginning, how could you have shared it with people?” He had stood on both sides of the river now, and he could share it.
Take Away the Adjectives
Anton’s message is about identity. The feeling of existing is the same in all of us, he says, once you get rid of the adjectives. Rich, poor, black, white, old, young, male, female: when anyone says I am followed by an adjective, those are only adjectives. In meditation, he says, we drop them and arrive at the feeling of pure existence.
“Why would I hurt you if I knew that you were me?” That is the decision, he believes, that humanity has to make now.
If this idea speaks to you, the glossary has entries on oneness and consciousness.
Consciousness and the Long View
Anton ends on a big, speculative note and offers it as his own. He wonders whether consciousness has grown through levels, from rocks to plants to animals to humans, and whether humans are here to build a home for consciousness that can last longer than a human body does. Who says, he asks, that the feeling of I Am has to exist in flesh and blood?
He is open about not knowing whether humanity will make it. If this planet does not, he says, perhaps another will. But his conclusion is simple: “I am, you are, and we are one.”
Where His Account Sits Beside Other Near-Death Stories
Common themes in near-death experiences include leaving the body, a tunnel or light, a profound peace, and a changed view of life afterward. Anton’s account has all of these. Researchers have tried to measure such accounts for decades; in 1983, Bruce Greyson published the 16-item NDE Scale, which is still used to describe what people report. What it means is still debated.
For more context, start with our complete guide to near-death experiences and the glossary entry on near-death experience. We share these accounts as experiences, in the person’s own words, and we do not make medical claims.
Questions to Sit With
- Anton learned to trust what he experienced, even when a room full of people disagreed. Where have you doubted your own experience?
- He says that if you take away the adjectives, we are all the same feeling of existing. Which adjective do you lean on most to describe yourself?
- A voice told him he had to know both sides of the river to share it. What have you lived through that you could share with someone on the other bank?
Sit for five quiet minutes this week. Drop every label you use for yourself, one at a time, and rest in the plain feeling of being here.
Spiritual Takeaways
- Anton says there is a greater reality, even if it cannot be shown by ordinary measurement.
- He describes a peace and joy that he says cannot be put into words.
- He says that without our adjectives, the feeling of existing is the same for all of us.
- He says that knowing we are one changes how we treat each other.
- He says that trusting what you have experienced matters, even when others disagree.
Please enjoy my conversation with Anton Grosz.
Guest Links: Connect With Anton Grosz
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Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Anton Grosz?
Anton Grosz is a scientist who shares his near-death experience on Divine Encounters. He was 37, newly practicing meditation and not thinking about God, when he says his out-of-body experience changed his life.
What happened to Anton Grosz during his first out-of-body moment?
Anton says that during a meditation at night, he suddenly found himself below the ceiling looking down at his own head. He took a breath, went back into his body, and was not afraid.
What happened the next weekend?
Anton says he tried to repeat the experience and felt intense physical sensations, then saw a light on the top of his head that grew into a tunnel. He says he passed into a space of brightness. Next Level Soul does not suggest anyone attempt what he describes.
What did Anton see on the other side?
He says he found himself in a space of brightness that was more incredible than he could have imagined, with far more than three dimensions. He describes a peace, comfort and joy that he cannot put into words.
What does the Tibetan Book of the Dead have to do with it?
Anton says he later learned that the Tibetan Book of the Dead describes steps of losing the earth, water, fire and air elements when leaving the body. He says the sensations he felt matched what he later read.
What did Anton say when he came back?
He says that as soon as he could control his body, he found himself on his knees saying, “I am reborn in God.” He says his life made a complete right turn from that moment.
What did the college test teach Anton?
Anton says a psychology test in the early 1960s turned out to be about peer pressure. The professor told him he had stood up for what he experienced. He says that lesson came back to him after his experience.
What did the voice tell Anton?
He says he asked why he had to wait so long to learn that God exists, and a small voice asked how he could have shared it if he had always known. He says he understood he could now share it with people who do not know.
What does Anton mean by taking away the adjectives?
Anton says that words like rich, poor, old, young, black, white, male and female are adjectives that make us different. In meditation, he says, you drop them and find the same feeling of pure existence.
What is Anton’s message?
He says “I am, you are, and we are one.” His question for humanity is why anyone would hurt another person if they knew that person was themselves.
Is a near-death experience proof of an afterlife?
Next Level Soul shares near-death experiences as lived experiences told in the person’s own words. Researchers continue to study and debate what they mean. Nothing here is medical advice or a medical claim.
Keep Exploring
- The complete guide to near-death experiences
- What is a near-death experience? (glossary)
- Oneness explained (glossary)
- Raymond Moody on the man who named near-death experiences
- Dr. Manmit Kummar, a scientist who left her body and heard spirit guides
- Dr. Scott Taylor on 30 years of near-death exploration
- Rob Gentile on being shown the quantum secrets of the divine
- Jack Morrigan, an atheist, on a life-changing near-death experience
- Browse more free masterclasses and the Divine Encounters podcast.
Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:00
Tell me what your life was like before you died.
Anton Grosz 0:08
I'm 37 years old. Hadn't thought about God at all, but I got into this meditation. Hey, let me try it. Let me see what it then I read it, and it always creates peace inside. It would be very, very peaceful. And I kind of was a natural I felt really, really good at it. And so I would meditate. And one night, I was meditating just before going to bed, because it calmed me down. I had a big day at work tomorrow, the next day, and I'm meditating. And for some reason, when I was sitting on the camp looking at a candle flame. But I had let all the air out of my body, and I don't know why I had done that. I just did and suddenly I was below the ceiling looking down at my head, and I thought myself, oh my god, if this is me up here, who's that down there? Or if that's me down there, who is this up here? And I took in a breath, and I went back in my body, and I thought, wow, that's cool. Yeah, I wasn't afraid at all. And I being a scientist, right? You know, having to prove everything, I realized, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if I left my body because I didn't have any air inside. I wonder if that bus, the meditation, is what made me, you know, go, you know, a top of my head. I gotta do this again, and I have to do it, and I'll keep my breath out longer, because I'll bet if I'd stayed out longer, I could have looked around more and seen more from outside, so there was no fear at all. The next weekend, I decided to try it again. My wife is downtown shopping with our daughter. My nine year old son is playing in in his room. I decide, hey, it's a good day to do it to leave my body. So I breathe out, and I lie on my bed with my hand folded like this. I'm on my stomach, leaning on my elbows, breathe in and out three times, let the all the air out, and I say I'm not going to breathe again until I'm unconscious, because I knew that the body will normally bring things in. Now, I didn't do anything stupid. I put tape on my nose or mouth. I mean, you know, I'm not bad off the wall, but I said I'm not going to breathe in until I leave my body again, like I did, you know, last week, and the clock goes around once, and the second hand goes around again, and I'm beginning to get, whoa, some pain in the body. I begin shaking like I'm in an earthquake, and then I feel like I'm drowning, like in a flood, and then I feel like I'm burning up in a fire. And I later learned that, according to the Tibetans in the writing The Tibetan Book of the Dead. But these are the first three steps in leaving your body and dying. You lose the earth element, the water element, and then the fire element. The next thing is the air element, which I'd already left and didn't have inside my lungs. The only thing holding me to my body was something called the ether element, which sounds pretty nebulous to me anyway, there I am, and I'm asking myself, am I conscious? Am I if I were unconscious, I'd be breathing, and I'm not breathing now, so I won't and I held it out, and I held it out, and the pain got worse, and I thought to myself, suddenly realized I was dying, and I said to myself, No, God won't let me die while I'm looking for him. And I what, what did I just say? And then I saw a little light on the top of my head, and it got bigger and bigger, and I thought, oh my gosh, that must be the tunnel of going through into the light that Raymond mood would, he wrote about in his book, life after life. And there was another sad thing, my wife's sister's husband, a young man, died from childhood diabetes at the young at a young age. And so she had read life after life, and gave that to me, and I had compared it was, gee, what if body and mind really are separate. That was the only step I could in any event. There I am, this tunnel, this light, you know, gets bigger and bigger bigger, and I suddenly went through I have not breathed, of course, it's been over three minutes and no air in the lungs, and I was in a space of brightness, unbelievable, greater, brighter, more incredible than anything I could have ever believed existed. And further, there were a feeling of greater number of dimensions. How do you describe but three dimensions that was nothing. There are so many more, and it was the. Know, incredible. At this point, my body is in such pain. I took a breath in. I fall off the bed. I start moving my body going around like it's in an epileptic fit. But inside, I was at such peace, Alex, I can't tell you, the peace, the comfort, the joy, the wonders, the feel inside. Well, my body is going crazy on the floor at this point, my wife comes in the room. She is driven home from shopping. Our son, who had looked in the room, has gone out to meet her at the driveway and to put her mind at ease, he says, Daddy's not dead. Daddy's not dead. Then I'm rolling around while I'm rolling on the floor, you know, in this peaceful thing, I can't move. I feel wires pulled out of my head like the old telephone switchboard. And then at some point, they get put back in. But I feel them being put back in in a different place. I can't understand any of it at the time, and then when I can finally control my body, the first thing that happens is, I am on my knees on the ground. My hands are folded like this in front of my face, and my first words are, I am reborn. I am reborn in God. And I was so embarrassed to hear me say that, but my life made a complete right turn at that point, and I knew that everything that people have said about God it was true, there is a greater reality. It may not be out there where we can physically prove it by Newton's laws, but it does exist, and that's how it happened. That's where my life changed, and from that point on, everything is different, and I know what I experienced, and that's true. And all of this makes me feel that I'm on this path that has led to the writing of this book. How did I get here? The idea that when I was in when I was in college, I had an experience, which seemed like it was meaningless, except now looking back and maybe the most important thing that happened there was a I was walking across campus, and there's sign psychological testing going on $5 and in early 1960s $5 was a lot of money, man. So I had nothing else to do. I went in, signed up. I went into all the tests. And the very last room I went into, these were, you know, grad students who had a thesis and needed, you know, some documentation, some, you know, for their for their pieces. And the very last room I went into, there were five desks, panels with lights on them and buttons, red light and green light, and a buttons underneath. And there were four other students who were in there, and they said, oh, here comes another one. We can do it now. We can we do the test? And the professor said, Okay. He said, Professor, standing in the corner of the room, he said, I'm going to push a button. This is a test how fast you can go, you know, and your reactions I'm going to push on. It's going to be the same for every panel, and each of you push the button. If you see green, push the button under green. You see red, push the button under red, and we're going to keep going faster and faster until somebody misses, and that'll be the end of the test. So we start doing it. Push red, I push green. I push red, green. And then suddenly, beep. The professor says, oh, somebody made a mistake. And the guy at the end, he says, Who pushed red? I said, I did. He says, It was green, you missed? I said, No, it wasn't. It was red. He said, No, mine was green, and the professor said they'd both be the same. I did, but mine was red. And the woman over on the next side said, Well, mine was green, and I don't care what yours was, mine was red. And he said, Well, you're you're wrong. All of us had green, you had red. You calling me a liar. I know what I experienced. And we started, you know, raised this and went at each other, and I suddenly felt my hand, my arms held back behind me. It was the professor. He said, easy, son, it was red. You were correct. This is not a test for how fast you can react. It's a test to how you handle peer pressure. You did very well. You stood up for what you experienced. Now here, take this shit, go get your $5 and you know, that's it. Boy, I was so, so upset, and I pushed that out of my memory until I had this experience, and I even remember sitting, you know, on on the couch, crying, why? Why, Lord, did I have to wait so long to learn that you existed? And I heard this little voice in my head which said, if you knew this from the beginning, how could you have shared it with people? Who, who didn't know it you've stood on both sides of the river now you can share that experience, feeling of being, of a living, of existing is the same when you get rid of all the adjectives that make you and me different, when anyone says I am and then they said adjective, rich, poor, black, white, old, young, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, male, female, they're just adjectives. Get rid of them all in meditation, we do this. We get down to the feeling of the pure existence. It's the same for us all. Why would I hurt you if I knew that you were me? And that's the decision humanity has to make right now. Now, are we going to survive? Who knows? Does the Creator care? We're here so that we are, you know, can, you know, survive? But I'm sure there are other planets somewhere in the galaxies where other living beings. So if this one doesn't make it check that one off. Okay, that one didn't work, but another one will as each level of consciousness has grown. You know, rocks to plants, to animals to humans. What if one of the reasons humans were here was so that we could build a housing for consciousness that could survive longer than humans can. Who says that consciousness, the feeling of I Am, has to exist in a piece of meat, in flesh and blood, maybe it could exist in metal and silicon and other things. Imagine when the sun gets hotter, right? We know that it's going to turn into a red giant at some point, creations that we are putting together now, I am, you are, and we are one. That's the way it should be and we should know.
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