ATHEIST Woman CRUSHED By STAMPEDING Horses; What She Encounter WILL SHOCK YOU! with Lesley Lupo

Lesley Joan Lupo was born in Chicago and raised in a boisterous, tight-knit family. She attended college in Albuquerque, NM, and graduated with a B.A. in Psychology and a B.F.A. in Studio Art. At the same time that she studied science, art, and psychology, Lesley reawakened her intuitive awareness and crossed paths with many inspirational teachers, including Native American Medicine people, a West African Shaman, and a Wiccan High Priestess.

Lesley has lived and traveled all over the world, including 2 1/2 years in Rabat, Morocco, and several stays at ashrams in India. For nearly ten years, Lesley was the Vice-President of Operations at Tanque Verde Guest Ranch. After a stampede of horses nearly killed Lesley, she experienced a profound near-death experience (NDE), resulting in her inspiring and poignant new book, Remember, Every Breath is Precious (Publication date: November 2018).

Her book offers a unique glance into the afterlife and invites the reader to venture beyond everyday life to understand the undying reality of their Soul. Her book has already been endorsed by Dr. Pim van Lommel, Dean Radin, Ph.D., Dr. Raymond Moody, Ken Ring, Ph.D., Ervin Laszlo, Ph.D., Bruce Greyson, M.D., Suzanne Giesemann and Dr. Gary Schwartz (who authored the foreword).

For the last 23 years, she has been a highly-sought after Intuitive Therapist at the famed Canyon Ranch Resort in Arizona and, for three of those years, as the Spiritual Programs Coordinator. Lesley is also a certified NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) therapist and a Reiki Master.  In these roles, she counsels and guides her clients on their own inner journeys. Her client base includes Hollywood celebrities, politicians, royalty, and business leaders from all over the world. Through her private company Lights the Path, she works one-on-one with clients (in-person, via Zoom, and phone) to support their spiritual healing and transformation.

Lesley also teaches workshops on improving relationships. Her popular workshop: Light Your Path — Cultivate a Life of Self-Worth, is soon to include a workbook and companion e-course. She now serves on the Steering committee of the Tucson IANDS and is the Vice-Chairman of the Spirituality Leadership Council for the nonprofit Eternea. Lesley also guest lectures in the Psychology of Religion and Spirituality class at the University of Arizona. Lesley also teaches a bi-weekly workshop at Canyon Ranch called “Science of Near-Death Experiences.”

Lesley enjoys creating mosaics and jewelry, meditation, beekeeping, and organic gardening. She happily practices “detachment” (win or lose) by watching her favorite Chicago sports teams. She resides in Tucson, AZ.

Please enjoy my conversation with Lesley Lupo.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 296

Lesley Lupo 0:00
And the one horse that I was in the saddle was upset because it's like, if there's a mountain line behind me, you're holding me back there lady, and is kicking out me and hitting me trying to get me off and then finally, like, scraped me off by running me into the hay barn, which is concrete, and it crushed my skull. And I watched myself drop, you know, I mean, I was still stuck in the stirrup for another step or two. And then it was really interesting, because as I watched it, it wasn't that difficult to watch. It was almost like watching you take off a jacket and throw it on the bed. You're done with it. If there was a certainty that this is no big deal, you're just choosing to let go of your body in that way.

Alex Ferrari 0:53
I like to welcome to the show, Lesley Lupo. How you doing Lesley?

Lesley Lupo 1:06
I'm great.

Alex Ferrari 1:07
Thank you so much for coming on the show with you and sharing your remarkable story with my audience. My very first question is, before we get into your near death experience, what was your life like prior to having that near death experience?

Lesley Lupo 1:20
Well, um, my, I was working and living on a dude ranch. Personally, I was like borderline atheist, I had no interest in spirituality, I had no interest in intuition. I have no interest in that at all. I basically was very turned off to it. I mean, I worked hard. I was a good person. But it was more like being good for my integrity route through them being good because of some religion, you know. And I was kind of anti religion because I just felt they were, you know, hogwash. So but I was, I was living and working in a dude ranch, which is seven days a week, and I loved horses, and I was the owner's wife. So I was very busy doing all the different aspects of it. And I have two small children. And so in a lot of ways, I was very busy, almost like too busy to recognize that there was this kind of inner drum going on that was making, you know, there was a big section of my life that was very unhappy, that I kept putting to the side feeling I'll get to it some day. Not today. Not today, you know. I was very busy.

Alex Ferrari 2:48
So yeah, you basically were caught up in the drama of life, essentially.

Lesley Lupo 2:52
Yes, very much so.

Alex Ferrari 2:54
And you're like, there's something else about me, that's just not feeling right. But I can't get to that, right. I'm too busy doing this stuff.

Lesley Lupo 2:59
Right, right. And keep, it's almost like I was treading water. And just keeping my nose above the water. And I had to work really hard to do that. Like, my time was when I was with my children was phenomenal. I mean, it was nice being the wife of the owner, because then I could see my kids all during the day, I have a nanny that would bring them down for meals, and or I could go up to the house and hang out with them. So I loved being a mom, that was the one part of my life that gave me an intense amount of joy was hanging out with my babies and, and just being a mom and watching their growth. And you know, how they evolve and change. You know, it's wonderful.

Alex Ferrari 3:45
No, did you So you weren't raised with religion at all? Or did you have? Okay, but you just kind of said, This doesn't make sense to me?

Lesley Lupo 3:54
Yes, very much. So I was raised Roman Catholic. And by the time I was eight or nine, I was like, I had declared myself an atheist, I think when I was nine, too, because the nuns, I just, I would battle them, because what they were saying was, you're only going to have him if you're baptized Roman Catholic, and I was like, that doesn't work for me. I mean, even at that age, I was like, no. So

Alex Ferrari 4:19
Yeah, that was one part of I was raised as well. Roman Catholic, and it's just kind of like, so you mean, the other 3 billion or 4 billion people in the world are just like, sorry, potluck, you're not the chosen.

Lesley Lupo 4:32
You're going to hell. That's what terrified me. I said, where are they going? And she said, Hell, and everybody in the class went, Oh, because they don't tell you that. They just say they're not going to heaven. Well, I raised my hand. Where did they go? Hell? What about the people that died before Jesus was born? They're all in hell. I mean, I just couldn't wrap my head around it.

Alex Ferrari 4:52
There's there's a few holes in the story. Let's just put it that way in the plot, if you will.

Lesley Lupo 4:57
That was a long time ago to I'm not sure how they feel now, but that was pretty. It just turned me off and I kind of said no, then there is no God.

Alex Ferrari 5:10
So you kind of threw the bat the baby out with the bathwater with Yes, I did. Everything she like there is no god i, if this is God, I don't even want to talk about it.

Lesley Lupo 5:19
Right! That's exactly what I said, if there's no God, because I don't believe this would happen. And that was it. I figured no. And then went into science. Even in grade school in high school. I went into science, because I liked the certainty of it.

Alex Ferrari 5:35
Right, because it's predictable, and it was solid and, quote unquote, rock solid. Because there's one thing I've noticed in human history, every moment in human history, they think they have it all figured out.

Lesley Lupo 5:47
Yes. And then they go, and that's, I like the way they're doing it now. And one of the things I would always work with my clients that say it seems to be, or when you meet someone new they seem to be, as far as I know, right now, knowing that you may change your mind, you're giving yourself permission to think for yourself rather than, you know. In fact, I raised my children saying question all authority, ask questions, if you have them, including me, if we or if I say no, we'll sit down talk about it. You know, and, and that was wonderful. And now it's fun to see them doing that with their children. You know,

Alex Ferrari 6:29
Yes, it is. But when they're super young, it gets taxing.

Lesley Lupo 6:34
Oh, no, yes, yes.

Alex Ferrari 6:36
But yes, gonna be I always tell my wife, the skills are going to be excellent when they're teenagers, and adults. But right now, it's driving me up a wall.

Lesley Lupo 6:46
Right! And I'll tell you, you have to be careful what you say to them. I've told my daughter, she was mad at herself. And self loathing is something we all have to overcome. Really, it's inherent in humanity. Because children hate themselves when they make mistakes. And I was trying to a pewter and this is actually logically true, you, I said, you have to make like this. You have to it's going to take you 50,000 mistakes before you really begin to get it. So then I was miffed at her about something. And I said, you know, I was crossed with her. She was mom, I haven't made my 50,000 Mistakes yet. And I'm like, Okay, shut my mouth, you know?

Alex Ferrari 7:30
Yeah end scene, end scene.

Lesley Lupo 7:33
Exactly. You're right. You're right. We don't.

Alex Ferrari 7:37
So or so you definitely, you know, kind of rejected religion rejected God, and everything essentially went right into the sciences. Tell me what happened on the day that you had your near death experience.

Lesley Lupo 7:49
I, I went down, horses are very unpredictable. And we had a cowboy who had come to work and he was still intoxicated from the night before. So I sent him home because you don't want an accident. So I jumped into the wrangling department, I was helping out at the end of the day, we were unsettling. Well, I was bringing all the horses in to be unsettled. And there was just one horse we had called Houdini that could get out of any knot or any corral, we had to keep him separate. And he, um, he undid the latch, and he ran down to the hay barn with historic with a saddle on. And so I was like, oh, no, because if they roll, they can break their back because of the saddle, they'll a lot of horses got out there and start rolling, and another horse had gotten down. So I grabbed a couple halters I told the guys, I'll go get them. And I started going down. And I saw that they were standing right next to each other. And I thought, oh, that's terrific. I'll just go in between, I'll get them both at one shot. Because there are like, you know, they're like, glued into each other eating. And they're ignoring me and I'm trying to poke my way through. And so finally, I was at a point where I turned around and they grabbed the backs of the saddles, and I was trying to push my way through between them. And all of a sudden, I left my body. I am if it was if you had said to me, right then what is this? I would have said it's my mind, you know, is leaving because and I it was as if I went back 15 feet or so. And I was watching what happened and I was like really shocked that was so shocked. I couldn't even think you know, it was just watching. And then all of a sudden, one of the horses screamed and started running. And I was had been turned around and I watched what happened and that spun me around and my arm went into this saddle, you know where the stirrup is, up to my armpit. And I was struggling to keep my balance as these horses were running. And the one horse that I was in the saddle was upset because it's like, if there's a mountain line behind me, you're holding me back there lady, and is kicking at me and hitting me trying to get me off. And then finally, like, scraped me off by running me into the hay barn, which is concrete, and it crushed my skull. And I watched myself drop, you know, I mean, I was still stuck in the stirrup for another step or two. And then it was really interesting, because as I watched it, it wasn't that difficult to watch. It was almost like watching you take off a jacket and throw it on the bed, you're done with it. If there was a certainty that this is no big deal, you're just choosing to let go of your body in that way. And I remember thinking, I wonder if everyone leaves their body because the one thing I knew was that I was dead. I knew it was not a dream. I knew it was not going to be I was unconscious, I knew that I was dead. It was very, it was a certainty like I'm talking to you. And the other thing, I started laughing, because I didn't feel anything of the distress. I mean, my body fought and screamed, and pain and terror. If somebody had witnessed that, they would have said, Oh, my God, she suffered horribly. And yet I didn't. I didn't suffer at all, because I didn't kind of know what was I mean, I was watching it. And I felt this peacefulness. And this kind of like, I don't know, if you'd call it wisdom to know that I was okay. The body wasn't and I'm not the body at that moment. And then I started kind of like, I felt lighter. It's almost like my cells separated and this beautiful little breeze was going through. And I felt very light. And I felt so much joy in all my senses. It's almost like I felt twice as alive as I did when I was in the body. Because all my senses were completely awakened. Like I'm looking at you. And if you notice, as you get on your peripheral vision a little further, it gets blurry. Well, it wasn't blurry, it was all sharp. And I could hear so many sounds. That would have been faint where, where I could hear them. I knew what they were the birds or the lizards crawling around, you could hear them scrabbling along. And the colors, the smells, and everything was beautiful. It wasn't like I was being overloaded with information. It was just like really looking at everything in a way I've never even seen it as much as I loved the ranch and loved the horses and I love nature. It was even more beautiful that way. And and I just had to kind of try to adjust to that. Because I felt like really electric and everything was in my brain or my consciousness was moving very quickly. But I was right in step with it.

Alex Ferrari 13:41
Interesting so but you are still are so the body is on the ground at this point. Yeah. You're disconnected. You have not felt anything that's been going on. So you actually kind of like did a preemptive pull out if you will. Right for it. Anything happened? Right? So you're watching all this you having all this feeling? This is all still on Earth. You're still in the ranch. Looking around. You could see behind you as well.

Lesley Lupo 14:07
I would say no, I didn't see 360. But my my peripheral vision was 180 wider. Was more than 180 it was almost like, you know, maybe

Alex Ferrari 14:18
240 yeah, something like that. But like something like here, but you couldn't see behind. I'm asking this question because a lot of Near Death Experiences say they can see behind themselves and stuff but you're still on the earthly plane. Right. What happens next?

Lesley Lupo 14:32
Well, I saw down at the very bottom of the field at the horse, the pan horse pan. The last two rides coming in. They were the fast rides. And I felt such nostalgia because I used to bring the rides in you lift up them you bring them in, but then everyone saw me and they raced over. And it's hard to explain how you move because it's not like linear walking like this. It's just I look someplace and I'm there. So they were all clustered around the body. And then I was there right next to them. And they were turning me over. And this one man started doing CPR on me. And another man jumped off his horse, and they were helping them and the cowboys were taking the horses away, but the people had stayed because the guests all knew who I was, you know, they, the one thing about this ranch is people like 70% of the people that go go back. So it's like a big family every week. So they all knew me. And they tried to resuscitate me. And I'm like, no, no, I'm fine. Don't do it. Don't do it. Because I didn't want. I liked where I was. And then, but everything now I've I've heard some people talk about a tunnel of light where they're going up. And I felt like I was above the ground. But it's almost as if everything started changing around me, like two songs dated started fading out. And the upstairs, faded in. And so and I felt like things were moving. And there were these three beings that looked like bright light that were kind of going around me, almost like to keep me from whatever, I don't even know getting bumped or something. And then finally, this other world, which is like a beautiful forest, with vines in the stream in it and all that just kind of started coming into view. And that's when I would have completed my transition upstairs is what I called it. And I I was groggy was is alert is that it was on earth at this vibration. I guess I was very groggy when I first got there.

Alex Ferrari 16:59
And okay, so you're groggy? What's going on as a gift, please continue what happened,

Lesley Lupo 17:04
Okay. think the first thing that really hit me was that I could feel no fear. I had, it's as if all that fight or flight or freeze reflex that we have in our DNA in our very core animal brain was gone. And everything was so beautiful. All the things like the trees and the flowers and the vines and the ferns. Everything was it had like an iridescence on it. So if you look at a ribbon that's white, or then you're looking at a ribbon that's white with iridescence, it's like this is earth, this has happened. And just looking at everything, it was like I was just marveling I was just walking around the the amount of love that you're getting from, everything you're seeing was it's indescribable. And I've talked to a few people who have had near death experience, I've gone to some of the conferences, and everyone says the same thing it is so hard to to describe. And that's what I tried to do in the book. It took me a long time to write it, because every time I'd go back and reread it, I think of another sense whether it was sound or smell or, you know, feeling to add to it. So I was trying to get people to realize that this is like this much of what you feel up there. And just walking around touching things. And the interesting thing is, if you ever go out like a daybreak or sunset, and you look at a tree, and the sun's behind it, and all the leaves are lit. Now you have the picture, the whole tree is like that. And the bark is lit and everything is almost like lit from within. There wasn't like shadows, like we have like I live in a little forest and I'm looking out the window, I see a lot of shadows. There weren't any shadows, but everything was kind of glowing in itself. And then I noticed a table. And again, there were some people standing around it. So I went over there. And they were all like Welcome back you know, and and if I knew them, and then I noticed the woman that was sitting to my left was a woman that when I was really young, I would see some of these light beings around. And I thought everyone could see them. But they couldn't. So I got teased about it until I realized okay, They can't see them. I was like 5 6 4 5 6 7. And you know, they would just appear sometimes it's almost like our heard these times. And then or you'd feel like a sense of everything kind of lightening up like cooler air and a little breeze when there was you're in the house. And then I would see one of these beings and they would never talk to me just once we talked, but that was the love that I felt. And I was a gifted student. So to keep me happy in school, when you're teaching things like reading and writing, and, and all that, because I could do that when I was in kindergarten, then they put me in the library. And I would read encyclopedias, which I thought was really cool. So I was trying to figure out who these people were, and I figured they weren't devils because I was being raised Catholic. So they must be angels, you know. And so because they, I always felt so happy and loved, I just felt so much love coming off of them. And then I noticed there were a couple of, of these light beings that I had seen when I was on earth. But the only two people that talked to me on this table, there was 11 people, we sat down. And we started talking and I was feeling very groggy, you know, and, and at times when it was interesting, because if I ask a question, like Mina was on my left, and Raul was on my right, and meno would start to answer, or I'd get one word, but the whole thing like was an immediate download. So like, in my book, there's times when we have conversations that go on for pages, but the whole conversation was like, immediately downloaded and comprehended immediately. So then, they told me, I had a choice, that I could choose to stay up there, or I could go back to Earth. Now, if I had made that decision, right, then I would not have come back, it was so nice. And so Rahu said, Let's, we went to a place, it was a place that I used to like to go to there's a big cave up behind a waterfall, and I used to go and meditate in there. And on the way there is when I saw this amazing light, I didn't even know how to describe it. It was just this ball of consciousness, which I came to realize was like the source or the, the ultimate consciousness. And it was aware of me, with all my little quirks and foibles, it was aware of me and adored me. And if you remember from childhood, we are taught to adore God. And for really lucky God will like us, or pat us on the head, you know. And this was like, I could feel this intense love from me. And then I could also feel this adoration back coming towards me, like this complete and head to toes. Love. And then I noticed something else. When I was looking up at the sky, it was a different type of sky, it was almost like Patchwork, instead of one solid color. And I noticed it was like I was looking through the floor of another realm. And Ron will explain that to me. He said, there's many realms, there's, you know, a multitude of realms. And you can go up and you can turn around and you can come down and you can go into the divine world, I call it the Divine is like the go all the way up to the top and come back again. So and thinks this is a problem, because some of the times I asked a question upstairs and they answered me, it made perfect sense. And then when I came back to Earth, I'm like, What did you mean by that? You know, like, my brain is back in gear and human body. I'm like, huh, I shouldn't have taken notes or something. So

Alex Ferrari 24:34
It seems like you were talking to a council of elders. It sounds like

Lesley Lupo 24:39
Well, that was actually be as part of my group up what I was told was that there was a group of us that had in part of them came down. And that's when I went into the hall of records and I was talking to this very tall Being. And it was interesting because when I would look at someone, it's like I would know their name. And when I met her, her name was like a discordant series of sounds and I couldn't get it. And she said, on earth, I'm called Saraswathi. And she was the goddess of knowledge in Hinduism. Well, I didn't know who she was. And at the time at all. And so, we talked a lot about why I chose to come down. And this is another thing. I said, Why did I come down now, and she drew a picture, and she drew a little dot, and then a very deep V with a thought, and then a doubt at the end. And, of course, it made perfect sense. She said, it looked like to me, I thought, maybe there's a crack in the wall. And it wasn't until decades later, when someone did my astrology chart for that day. And Jupiter and Venus were here, and Pluto was at the bottom of that V. And I have like 26 minutes, he said, to come in and go back without any damage. And that was just wild, you know, because that was like decades later. And then then the Wii made sense to me, I just kept thinking it was like a crack in the wall I slipped through, I didn't understand that. But

Alex Ferrari 26:25
Now the whole by the way, the Hall of Records is that kind of the Akashic Records, which

Lesley Lupo 26:29
I think so. I mean, that's, I'm assuming. So, you know, she didn't call it the Akashic records. But it was a record. I mean, it was a huge hall, had all these little drawers that had either scrolls on them, or books in them. And she said, I used to hang out up there. And I would read because it's constantly being added to, because as we grow, you know, it almost seemed to me the impression I got was that as human consciousness grows, the divine grows, and the angels go and all the other light beings also elevate. So it's a collective energy. That's expansion, you know, and, and one of the biggest lessons, I think, that I heard was the fact that it's not going to be like one person, being able to change the course of history anymore. There's too many people. But the more that we link arms and work together, which is so nice to see people of different religions, putting down the swords and the guns and saying, We all love God in our different ways, and the respect that goes in, you know, to people that realize these are things that are not worth dying over. And the fact that people are becoming more global, and working for global goals, right, and, you know, healing the earth, and, you know, the weather and the, they're beginning to say that there's more important things than one person hoarding it all, and that it has to be shared. And that's that kind of the cooperative businesses, you know, it used to be very competitive. And the last decade, some of the cooperative businesses are the ones that are making the most amount of money. And you see with the millennials, and everything, where they will go and buy things from a company that says, I'm giving a percentage of the profits away. And here it is, and check it out on my webpage, it's all up there, people in the manufacturing are becoming more transparent, which is really good. So there's a whole bunch of movements like that. And that was one of the things that they mentioned to me that one of the things that I was kept come down for was to my group, was to stop the spread of this generational prejudices. So you take someone who is not going to be hating on someone just because they're not Catholic, and put them in a Catholic religion. And the person says, I can't do that, rather than I will do that and get brainwashed into thinking that well, we're all going to have an Oh, you poor guys. Oh, well, you know, and that's what you see people challenging like the guy from the tobacco company that challenged it, and you see that over and over again, people shifting things, you know, and making sure that they are in a place where they're being more inclusive. And I think one of the biggest things you see On the internet, is where you see humans will jump into a river to save a deer that, you know, a baby deer. And you know, we're the only animal on the planet that will risk our life to save another animal. And that's not our species, not our path is got no relation to us. But we see that. And that's the best part of humanity. And personally, I think except for White Sox fans, no, I'm kidding. Personally, I think, sorry. Personally, I do think that most of humanity are very decent. And I feel there's a lot of misinformation. And again, it's time to question, ask questions, not burn things down, just ask questions. Do the research, when you're getting information, where's this information coming from? Trying to find like the truth out, because that's what they were saying is going to change it is when we begin to work as one, instead of all these different countries and these different cities and different colors and different religions. It's like, No, you're all one, you know, and that's something that you see more and more apparent, you know,

Alex Ferrari 31:19
So when you're alright, so we're still, we're still upstairs. You're at the Hall of record. So you basically came in the world changed around you. There's three beings, you went to a council of elders, you had conversations. Were there any other conversations there?

Lesley Lupo 31:32
That yes, in the cave, I walked in the cave, and Jesus was there.

Alex Ferrari 31:37
Well, okay, what cave? What cave are we talking about?

Lesley Lupo 31:39
Well, when we left the table Raul, when I went to a cave behind a waterfall, he said, You used to like to go and just it's it. Still there? Yeah. And so we went there. And when I walked in, it was beautiful. It was like a white marble. And it was actually carved out like a circle, you know, like a big, round circle. It was beautifully done. And I walked in, and there's Jesus. And I'm just like, well, if I would have been downstairs, I would have gone What are you doing here? Go away, you know, because I was like, no, but this, you know, he had all this lighting, he told me to rest. And he started putting this. He took, it was it was sandalwood and Rose, oil smelling. But he started putting up on all my chakras. And he said, You've done an immense amount of work, it's time to to rest, we appreciate what you've done. And just relax here. And we talked a little bit again, about the decision I had to make them make. And he said, If you stay ill, everything will be fine. If you go back, everything will be fine. So don't worry about that. You got to do what you want to do kind of basically, in a nutshell. And then I it's almost like I close my eyes, or i I must have taken it's almost like the equivalent of taking a nap. And when I opened he was gone. And you know, again, you had all that love coming off of him every being you met, it was just but some of them were a little taller than others. And his aura was so bright, you couldn't see his feet or his bottom of his legs because he was kind of blurry. And then when it came out, that's when I went up to the hall records, talk to Sarswati. And then when it came out of the Hall of Records, there was Mina standing there, the lady with the blue dress that I'd seen this chap. I used to call her the Blue Lady. And then we went into a smaller room and there was only six of us at the table. And Raul and Mina were there and then a couple other people. And then me. We started talking that's when we got into heavy duty questions. Like what happened, you know, what you want to do? And after that experience of Jesus with a little anointing, and the nap, I felt didn't feel groggy anymore. I felt complete, I felt energized. And when we saw when we were talking, I asked a lot of questions like, What happens if I stay? What happens if I go? If I stay? What did I do before? And it was like my soul group was responsible for planting these. What I came to call blindfolded bodhisattva. And they're, you know, let's talk about the Dalai Lama Dalai Lama. He came down, he's a bodhisattva, who he was born into a very spiritual family. The monks knew the date and the coordinates. They went to the village they found him. They brought him in his family back to the monastery. So He had very special training, you know. And around the mid 1800s, global consciousness had shifted. Because when you think about people who may have been like Teresa of Avila, or some of the saints, and holy people in all the cultures, they were born into cultures and families that recognize the gift of that child. And they got the proper training, so that they'd learn how to focus and learn how to be in the spiritual place, because this is all about this is all about being in the physical and you forget the spiritual, so But where do they go? They go into churches and monasteries, and mosques and temples, and people that are called go. But what about the people that aren't called and are, you know, hungover from the night before or doing, you know, really being really nasty to each other. So around the mid 1800s, another group of bodhisattvas, volunteered for another level to bring up. And that was to be born into very young families, not older souls, but younger souls, and being having been experiencing the teachings and having the wherewithal to say, No, I can't do that. I can't follow you in that. And it started in the 1850s. And what they showed me was, right before and during World War Two, a huge amount of these very, very old souls came down, because with World War One and World War Two, there were so many people that were killed in these wars, of just pure hatred, humans killing humans, that they kind of loaded the deck. So in the 40s, and 50s, you have a lot of very old souls coming in, which was going on with that when you got the hippies coming in. Because in the 60s and 70s, was a huge shift. And these were people that were being born in the 40s and 50s and 60s, that would kind of go in a different direction and say, No, we can't do it just because you say we should do it. And we had a lot of social upheaval, we had a lot of marches, we have a lot of people dying in Vietnam, we had a lot of crazy things going on. And that was what fueled that. And so what they showed me was, these were Bodhisattvas. But they were blindfolded. Because it's not like they remembered who they were like, apparently, when the Dalai Lama saw the monks, he was five or six. He was playing in the earth, he saw the monks, he ran into the family altar, grabbed some beads set by mom and ran out. And she's running after her my career going and these monks they met, they brought them in. And they were convinced that this in fact, they touched foreheads when they met, and he's a baby. So he knew who he was. The block vine folder, bodhisattvas don't know who they are there. They don't know at all. Now, I started calling them Houdini kids because I was watching a documentary on magicians and here's Houdini, and they start to blindfold him. He's standing on a platform. And my guides are going thinking, watch this, watch this, you know, because blindfolded bodhisattvas is a mouthful. And they blindfolded him, they put him in a sack, where they tie them up, then they put them in the sack threw him in the river. And it went that's exactly what these blindfolded, bodhisattvas experience because they have to find within themselves, the spiritual path without any teachers, in some of them suffered so much that they they just said, I can't live like this. There's got to be something else. So I came to start calling them Houdini kids. And I've got a lot of information about these Houdini kids on my webpage, because many of them have felt like I'm a changeling. I started for many years, I did these workshops for people that you know, Houdini kids, without really naming it. It was actually learning about self love and forgiveness, self forgiveness, and you know, really being at peace with who I am with all my dings and dents. And it was something that When I would have individual sessions and I'd say, oh my gosh, you're Houdini kid. And I tell them what it was this one woman put her head on the desk and she started crying. She said, Oh my God, that makes so much sense. Because they've come down, they felt isolated, they felt they were spurned by their community, or culture or family or a combination. And they, they were like, okay, you know, and all of a sudden, they realize, wait a minute. If you knew, and you volunteered, you're a very old soul. And you just you have all that light with him. And then people will bump into other Houdini kids and love God, wow, we've all been kind of the isolated ones or the changelings are the the ones, I had one man tell me, he used to sit in his window. Because at one point that on the news when he was like 10, or 11, there was a big deal because two babies had been switched at birth, accidentally. And they were now six or seven years old. And they realize, and they found the parents and said, You guys have the wrong child. And that was the trauma of Wait, wait, that's my son, you know, it's really not. And so he was listening to that he was like 10, or 11. He said, Oh, that happened to me, I'm Switched at Birth, because I don't relate to any of these people. And so it was a really nice thing to understand that this group had come down. In my group, my soul group upstairs was the one that placed these bodhisattvas, the blindfolded Bodhisattvas. And what we would do is, it was almost like looking at the big map. And where these old souls were, were these little lit, they're about as big as a piece of rice. And what you have to do is, if you have a soul here and a soul here, then you placed it in between far away from the Centers of light. And the more you do it, then the shorter the area becomes. So now there are a lot of these Houdini kids on the planet. And they're the ones that just kind of say, even these kids that are 15 and 14 years old, that are stopping the world, you know, and saying no, I mean, that's magnificent.

Alex Ferrari 42:26
So all of this is happening in this room. So he's basically like in this small room there explaining all of these things to you. Right? Yeah, it's an exchange of information. And you're able to retain this information, which is rare, because most of the times it's forgotten when you come back. Like you get glimpses, but you don't have such detailed, like, really real information.

Lesley Lupo 42:47
Well, you know, it's interesting, they asked me at one point, do you want to remember this yes or no. And I, we talked about it, and I chose to, okay, and they said, okay, but you have to know how isolating it's going to because once I said I would go back, it's like they flipped and they were trying to talk me out of it in a way. And they knew they knew, Okay, it's gonna be very isolating. And the one thing that I think a lot of people have had NDE's don't talk about is the fragility that we feel. It's like, it's like, sometimes I feel like I'm just a house of cards. Because certain things will. Kind of, it's like you're watching something, and you feel so much overwhelming pain, because you're watching the news. And you feel the helplessness, that hears people doing extraordinary things that are short sighted, and, and detrimental. And you can't just walk up and go Bibbidi Bobbidi, boo, and get them to understand that what they're doing is so wrong. And that was I think that very helplessness that made me feel so bad, before they accident that I just had come to a place of feeling very helpless. And that's why I because I when I was talking about Searge Flauke, so why did I come? She said, Well, first of all, you have this. Secondly, you had lost hope. And so you came back, and now you can come or go. And I was supposed to leave when I was 21. I had come down with one of my group, and we were going to meet up as a couple and die in a car accident. And literally days before the car accident. I chose to go back to Chicago. We were in Albuquerque, and then he was killed in the car accident. And I was in Chicago and he kept trying to talk me into staying with him. And I said no, no, gotta go back. Got it. earn my own money. So pay for my own college. Kid the monies are paid for and no god do it myself, you know. And that was, then I went back. And four days later he's dead. And I'm in Chicago. And I'm like, Wait, what just happened? Because I would have been in the car with him.

Alex Ferrari 45:18
That's a you heard this in the other side? They told you this?

Lesley Lupo 45:21
Well, they told me yes, they are. They didn't tell me about the car accident. They just said you had gone down with someone, and he came back and you chose to stay. That's all they said. It was when I came back down here. And I began to reflect that I realized, well, you know, it was something that came back to me was the sense that I, I bailed, I decided not to go, in fact, I had this amazing meditation vision that showed how you disconnect, like, when you're getting ready to die, people will kind of start drifting away from Earth pole. And it's got you got these little threads on you that are breaking. And so we were doing that. And I kept looking at the Earth. And finally I let go of his hand, and I went back to Earth, and he was kept going. So that's why everyone has always told me that whenever I've worked with anyone who's, you know, gifted in intuition, they always go God, you love the Earth? You know, I see the I guess I do cars that come back a lot.

Alex Ferrari 46:33
So that I was there any other, you know, remarkable information that they told you in that meeting?

Lesley Lupo 46:38
It's all such a blur, but it was basically working towards hope. They said you came down the first part of your life who are bringing down forgiveness, because you were very forgiving, ever. Anyone that hurt me, I've always forgive them. I never held a grudge. And I'm Sicilian, you're supposed to handle grudges, you know, I couldn't do it. And it's very forgiving. And I'm very protective of the people I loved. And but very forgiving. You know, when people make mistakes, we all do, we all do. So she said this part is you're going to be installing hope and showing people the light within themselves. So I had devised a few exercises, for people to begin to not be so attached to the roles they play, learning what the motivation is, for, like I have had a dog attack me. When he stepped in a leg trap. You know, he's my dog, they adore you. But he stepped on the leg trap. And I was moving very slowly. But he wound up attacking me because I put my hand near there was a button to push and it would have opened it. But he didn't know that. And we were hiking up in the mountains in New Mexico. And so I jumped back I didn't he ripped my jacket, he attacked me so vicious, a big duck. And I didn't know what to do, then a hiker hurt us. And he came and he did what I shouldn't and took off his jacket covered or Ryan's head, push the button jump back in front of me holding up the jacket. Orion was fine, then he was limping. Now the mortal wound. But the one thing is I never got angry with him because he begged me, because you know what, of course. But that turned into a life lesson. So if someone comes up and says, Let's see your ugly, fat and stupid, I would look at them and go, Well, you're really hurting, rather than take it personally. So at a young age, I learned through these experiences. And that's one of the things that Sarswati told me was you learn, you take an experience and make it a life lesson, which makes it easy to teach. So if someone comes up and is in your face, you can look at them and say, well, there's their bear trap. So that's an easy thing for people to incorporate right away. And then learning how not to get caught up in the roles that we play. Because you have this immortal soul. And so one of the things is when I do have the impulse to slap people, because I do, I don't do it. And I just laugh and I go, there's that human part of me so your immortal soul is like this picture your favorite little candy mines chocolate truffles. So here's the chocolate truffle that's love and that's your immortal soul. And then you got a wrapper around it to protect it. That's a human consciousness, fight, flight or fear. So when I feel like the urge to slap someone, I just laugh and say oh, There's the rapper because that's not me. That's not me. I am the immortal soul. I am the party me that stood outside my body. When I was outside my body, I was less the code. I wasn't, you know, something, I wasn't a ball of light. I was me. And I have all my human memories. But I was in my light body, I was in my immortal soul.

Alex Ferrari 50:25
So at what, at what point? Do you say I? Okay, I'm going back. Did you just kind of slam back into your body? Did you kind of just go very quietly into the body? How did it go?

Lesley Lupo 50:39
There was the room that we were in. When we went in there. It was a long room. And the firewall was kind of wavy, it looked like a wall. I thought it was a waterfall because there lots of water, you know, fountains in thought, and I thought it was an indoor water fountain. And when we decided we talked about it, I went over there. And when I first kind of began to go through that energy, it was energy. I thought it was a tiny little room. And it wasn't it was actually again, a bigger room. And Raul was with me at that point. And everything started like slowing down. And I felt like I was being squished. In fact, I always say I felt like I felt like I was being squished into a sausage casing again. And at one point, it was it was almost like painful. And the sound instead of all the beautiful music or singing, or voices, or whatever I heard because I could barely hear it. I could, it was like one note, and it was like, huh, getting lower and lower. And it was almost painful. And I went like that. And Raul stopped the process. And he said, You don't have to go. And I said, No, I will. And then he leaned forward and he said, Remember, every breath is precious. And that's why I titled my book that way. Remember, every breath is precious, because there are times when I am here on the planet that I have to kept go what was the thinking, you know, I wish I was back home. But I then I remember, every breath is precious. Every Breath You Take is sacred and precious. And that will you know, get me back into that expanded state because the world squishes you. And it's learning how to balance my humanity with my spirit. It's not to erase my humanity. It's to integrate it. You know, and I think that humanity's evolved enough to where we can be human and spiritual. In fact, there's a great Indian Saint Sri Aurobindo, and around 1900 or so he had written a paper on, it was time, if humanity had evolved, it was time for the monasteries to open and the temples and for spiritual people to go into the business world and change business and make it spiritual. Well taken 100 some years, but it's happening, you know.

Alex Ferrari 53:27
So you so then you came back into your body? And what happened? Did you feel all the pain?

Lesley Lupo 53:31
Yes. Well, it was interesting, because the first thing I remember was, like, I felt like I hit the ground. You know, it was like, everything was squishing, squishing, and then all of a sudden, I'm jolted. And everyone, later on had told me that they had stopped trying to resuscitate me, told one of the Cowboys go find Bob, she's gone, you know, and they didn't know what to do. There was no respiratory, there was no pulse. They had done CPR for five or six minutes. When we calculated it later, I was dead about between 12 and 15 minutes. And they have given up and then all of a sudden, I jolted and sat up now, the only thing I remember is I remember seeing a blue sky that was solid blue. And there was a couple ladies there, and they could see the edge of the hay barn, and some trees and then I passed out. But apparently I sat up and they the man was a doctor who was trying to do the CPR said, everyone's going Listen, Leslie, are you okay? And I said, Of course I am. Me. So wait, wait, wait. You said what's your name? And I said, Well, they're calling me Leslie. And then he said, where are you? And I said, Chicago. He said, How old are you? And I'm like, I'm 14. And by that time Bob came up. And here's this older man is walking up and they said, Do you know who he is? And I said, see my father. And they're like, No. And then I began to pass out. So I was in a coma for a couple of weeks. And then it came out of that. And I had a lot of amnesia, because I couldn't remember a lot. And my mom was really patient, she came down, and she would come to the hospital every day and read to me or talk with me, and bring me lots of pictures. And I didn't remember but I wanted to tell everyone about my experience of surgery that I could remember, minute by minute. You know, it's something so embedded in you, when you have those experiences, you don't forget them, you know, completely. And so my doctor didn't like that. And he was convincing everyone that I was in a psychotic state, and you came in one night. It was really terrifying because it was I felt so helpless. He sat down on the bed. And he started poking me on the shoulder. And he said, If I hear one more story of your hallucination, he said, I'm gonna fill you up with drugs. So many drugs, you won't know if it's day or night, and I'm going to put you in the psych unit. And he could have, and I was horrified. By the time he finished that I turned away from him. And I was sobbing. And there was a nurse in the room when he blew the door open and came in and started yelling at me, and then marched out. And she came over and started rubbing my back, you know, and I was crying. And she said something, and she said, I've heard this story before. And I was like, what? And she said, Some people talk about this. When I because she was an ICU nurse. She said, Some people talk about this. And the next night, she came back with another nurse, and they sat on the bed and we just talked for a few minutes. I was just so terrified, but and then I shut down. I didn't talk about it to anybody. Because I was so afraid that it would be used against me and I couldn't be put into another, you know, into a psych ward, because my parents believed him. My family believed him. My husband believed him, everyone believed him. And they would have signed any paper to put and they would have said yes, take her put her in there get her better. They thought it was a defect, you know,

Alex Ferrari 57:48
How long did you stay closeted, as a near death experiencer?

Lesley Lupo 58:33
But let's don't forget the planets only 6000 years old, obviously. Yes. You know, that's a good point. You know, like, the dinosaurs. That's fake news.

We forget these things. But the thing that's interesting is my analogy is that someone who's a firstborn is like pre kindergarten. And older souls are like masters and PhDs. And the world is about in fourth grade right now, overall, that's how I look at it. But it's hard to talk physics with a second grader. That's one of my favorite things. I tell people, like, don't waste your time. They don't get physics. They're working on subtraction, the Milan, you know, it's great.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:51
It's a great, it's a great analogy. Leslie, I want to thank you so much for telling this story. And, and, you know, not only sharing the story, but what you've had to go through and the psychological, you know, think route told you. I mean, they told you on the other side, you're going to be isolated, this is

Lesley Lupo 1:01:10
You're going to be isolated and really told me that I am, you know, so funny, is they go, you know, it's gonna take you like, even two to three years to get back in your body physically, because I was so damaged. Sure. I show my cat scans, which I took from the hospital. I don't know how I thought of doing it. But I did. And I show my cat scans to neurologists and radiologists now today, and they look at it and go, No, you should be that. I go ha tricked you. But they told me and you know, I'm just like two or three years, what's two or three years? You know? Yeah, well, then when you're on Earth time and you're walking like a snail, two or three years is a very long time would be a very long time before. It would be it would be a burden. You know, for a long time.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:01
Did you ever think that there would be a time in your life, that we would be having these conversations in public like that? No.

Lesley Lupo 1:02:08
No, till I met IANDS No. I just thought for the rest of my life. It's a secret.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:15
It's very interesting how these conversations are becoming not more accepted. But also just people are so much more fascinated and interested in the story of

Lesley Lupo 1:02:25
Netflix to the series. And you know, who also changed my life was Dr. Bruce Greyson.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:31
I've had Yeah, it's great. had him on the show.

Lesley Lupo 1:02:33
I was I saw an article about him and I wrote to him, and he wrote me back and sent me his questionnaires. I went through 100 questionnaires. Well, because I don't know computer stuff, and I don't have a printer. He sent them to me in hardcopy, and because I can't answer yes or no questions with Josie yes or no. Because there's always like, well, I don't know it's kind of that. So I would write a lot and write on the back of it. And I gave him so much more information. So he and I are dear friends and he gave me a lovely he gave me such a good endorsement for my book. It was just so sweet. He's a great guy. He has so much to change and Pim Van Lommel he's another man that I met. That gave me a great endorsement, you know?

Alex Ferrari 1:03:22
Well, I'm gonna ask you a few questions ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Lesley Lupo 1:03:29
I think I think to be at peace. There's a beautiful saying and I'm gonna have to butcher it cuz I can't remember it word by word that it's talks about. And no, you'll know it. It's a piece is not being half not living in a life without, you know, trials and tribulations and tears. That piece is being in that life and having that sense of peace within. And for me, one of the turning points was when I was taught how to live out you know, I accept being human. I accept being a mother, I expect set being you know, all the jobs I do. I accept all that. But that's not who I am. And for me, the fulfillment comes from the peacefulness of knowing that feeling love, enjoying nature, seeing love in all its forms. And that makes me feel very fulfilled and knowing that there's a group consciousness, like, if you meditate, if you're just still yourself and wish that there was peace. You have to realize there's 10s of, you know, there's millions of people doing it at the same moment, and that you are actually connecting. And it's nice to know that and begin to feel those connections. Because like, it's said there's a lot of really good people in the world, that are working towards making the world a better place. And being involved in that. In, in a, in a minor level, you can't give everything away. It's like learning when to work and learning when to play, learning when to relax, learning when to go lay in your bed and cry for an hour, you know, I mean, it's just keeping things in balance and, and at the very core, always remembering that I am an immortal soul. And I'm here to bring hope. And I'll do it to the right people.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:34
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to your younger self, what advice would you give her?

Lesley Lupo 1:05:39
So much unhappiness, and so much self judgment, I would tell her that she's going to be okay, and that, you know, I'm happier now than I've ever been. You know, because I don't have anything in my life. I don't have any one in my life in my inner journey life. You know, we have intimate love, which is for family, friends and relationships. And then we have unconditional love. And when I learned that unconditional love doesn't include the word vulnerability, I can unconditionally love anyone. But if you're going to be close to me, you have to be my peer in integrity and openness and gentleness, you know, and it's just kind of learning to find your tribe. And I would say that one day, you're not going to feel so alone. You're going to find a lot of people who are just as curious and quirky and crazy as yourself, and you will have a lot of fun.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:49
How do you define God?

Lesley Lupo 1:06:50
It's it's immeasurable. It's indescribable. It's, it's the intensity of love. It's such a, an acceptance. And to me, God is only love. There's no judgment, there's no hatred, there's no thing addictiveness, like in a lot of different religions, God is the purest sense of feeling, adoration and feeling, how to feel adoration, I mean, true adoration, and feeling adored, in return. It's the highest level of love, and total acceptance,

Alex Ferrari 1:07:30
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Lesley Lupo 1:07:31
To grow, to learn and to grow, I'm gonna learn and grow until I die. I'm never going to sit down, you know, I'm retired. But starting a new career, I'm taking classes and making art again, because I had a psych degree, and I had an art degree when I graduate. So I'm going back to my art, and the purpose of life is to help others. I think the single thing that makes us happiest, is we can help someone, just even an inch, and you can see them be able to do it themselves and take care of themselves. And they don't have to keep coming back, you know, for an adjustment. I think the course is helping others and installing help for others.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:19
And where can people find out more about you and your book?

Lesley Lupo 1:08:22
Oh, my webpage. I have a web page. It's Lesley Joan Lupo. Lesley And my book is on there. And it's called Every Breath is Precious. And I'm actually on the cover of the book. That's me with the horses.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:44
Very nice. And yeah, your party messages for the audience?

Lesley Lupo 1:08:47
Thank you all for listening. Thank you for being interested and keep keep asking questions. keep learning, keep growing. And don't give up. Don't Don't Don't ever give up.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:00
Lesley, thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing your story with all of us. I appreciate you.

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