Science Proves There’s a God & Consciousness with Physicist Tom Campbell

Thomas Campbell, a lifelong professional applied physicist, began a parallel career in the early 1970s researching altered states of consciousness with Bob Monroe at Monroe Laboratories in the early 1970s where he and a few others were instrumental in getting Monroe’s laboratory for the study of consciousness up and running. Campbell continued his research into the nature of consciousness and reality and in February of 2003, published the My Big TOE trilogy (MBT) which represents the results and conclusions of over 30 years of scientific exploration into the nature of existence.

In the Fall of 2016, Tom presented a set of quantum physics experiments designed to provide evidence for or against the hypothesis that our reality is virtual and that consciousness is the computer. In the spring of 2017, these experiments were described in a paper, entitled: On Testing the Simulation Theory which was subsequently published in a peer reviewed scientific journal: International Journal of Quantum Foundations on June 17, 2017. Volume 3, Issue 3, pages 78-99

Currently these experiments are being performed at the California Polytechnical university. First Results are expected in late 2021 or early 2022.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 094

Tom Campbell 0:00
The driver of this consciousness system has a driver. It's evolving. The system is an evolving system. It's not infinite. It's not all, you know, it's not perfect. It's just a natural system of consciousness evolving like the rest of us trying to stay alive. Because if it made a lot of poor choices and created too much chaos and get all the way back to, everything's random, then it dies. It's not an information system anymore.

Alex Ferrari 0:38
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I like to welcome the show Thomas Campbell. How're you doing Thomas?

Tom Campbell 1:13
I'm doing fine Alex.

Alex Ferrari 1:15
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you about the theory of everything, basically. And we could talk about the the fabrics of the universe and get into the into the weeds and all that. But I have the first question I have to ask you is how did you get in? How did you start this journey? How did you start this journey into to your work and into your life's work essentially?

Tom Campbell 1:38
Well, I suppose that the it kind of like most things, the start wasn't the just at one point suddenly said, Oh, I'm gonna write a theory of everything. You know, it doesn't life doesn't work like that. But when I was in graduate school, we're going to write PhD. I took a TM course Transcendental Meditation. And after taking that, I found out that I could debug my software. In my mind, I could bring up a picture of my my printout, and just let it scroll by, and I could tell which, which lines had problems with them, which lines had bugs in them, they'd laid up red while the rest of them stayed black or white. And then I said, Well, that's probably just my imagination. Let me go check those out. So I checked them out. And all the ones that I saw that were red, actually had bugs in them. And I said, Wow, this is really, really valuable. Because in those days, debugging code was not the easy thing it is to do today, you know, we're talking about back in the day of punch cards and things like that, you know, it was really a big deal, particularly a university, you had one computer, mainframe course took up like a whole building. And it probably was only about a 10th, as strong as your cell phone. Today, yeah, if that. And you, you don't only get a run, or two a week, because you had to get in the queue. And the whole university had this one, one computer. So if you got an error, because the code didn't work had an error. And at some place, there was no, no pointer that pointed to where the error was, you got a message from the from the guys running the running the computer that says your job bombed. That's it, you know, so that was before the days of really good debug software that would point you right to the spot where the, you know, where the problem happened, all you know, is that your job bombed, and you've got the 4000 cards, and in three, three boxes, you know, that are what, almost three feet long is real long, skinny boxes. Anyway, that's the way it was back in those days. So that was important. And that started my process, because that opened my mind to another part of reality that I didn't know about. So I'm a physicist, what physicists do is we model reality. That's basically what physics is. And hear there was another piece of reality that had to do with mind, you know, with consciousness, that obviously was very real, because it could do real things. And I had no idea how it worked. You know, what were the what were the underlying principles? What were the rules? Anything like that has rules? You know, things just don't work randomly. And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, there's rules. So what were the rules? What could you do? What else could the mind do? So I had all these questions in my head that I really would like to pursue or explore those, but I had no idea how. And I kind of let that go and eventually got out of school and took a job and was introduced to Bob Monroe's book journey out of the body by my My boss, and I told my boss, well, I have no idea whether this guy is just making up making up stuff to sell books, or whether he's actually, you know, honest and had these experiences, but I sure would like to find out. And within a couple of months, a whole bunch of us from where I worked, who had had this discussion, we went out to see Bob Monroe, and Bob Monroe just live, you know, like 45 minute drive from where we were, so it was very fortuitous, otherwise, we probably wouldn't have made the effort. And I met Bob and realize that he was a serious guy who desperately wanted to study what had happened to him and make science make something credible out of it, rather than just the, you know, the strange old man who could do goofy things. Yeah, he, he didn't really like that he wanted it to be more scientific. And His personality was more engineer, like he was very logical, rational sort of guy, you know, logical process was his thing. And he, yeah, he was an analytical sort of sort of person that was his, that was his personality. So after that, myself, an electrical engineer Dennis metric started going out to Bob's lab. And he had just built this building, had no idea what what he was going to do with it, or who would work in it, but it was a build it and they will come kind of thing for him. And there was Dennis and I, we came. So we started going out and actually building equipment and doing some experiments. And so we were spending 15 to 20 hours a week with Bob and row. So about a almost a halftime job. And eventually, he taught us how to do what he did go out of body on demand. And that was an important part of Dennis Annise. interest in going out there is that he would teach us, because if it's only about somebody else's experience, then if it's not your experience, it's not your truth. It's not, you know, you can study it, but but you'll never understand it unless it's your own experience. You can't probe it and, and learn about it if it's not your experience. So we'd spend time in the booths, and Bob would, would coach us, and we would practice and we eventually could go out of body easily. And then I started doing research there because as a physicist, I wanted to understand it. So we were doing everything that was evidential, you know, like remote viewing, you could remote view, and then you could go see if you got it, right, you know, what, there's what you thought was there. So there's just lots of things we did that were evidential, we did some healing. That's not quite as avid evidential, because you have to do a lot of them, and then look at the statistics, because you could say, oh, I healed somebody in my mind, and they could get better, but maybe they just got better anyway, you know, it's, you have that variable. So you don't know. But if you do that a lot of times, then you start to get a sense. And if you do that with somebody who's had an illness that's chronic, and they've had it for the last 20 years, and they've just learned to live with it, and then suddenly, you do something and it changes dramatically, well, then that's fairly evidential. So it kind of depends on the situation, and depends on the statistics you do. But we did all these evidential things. And I knew that there was something going on that was real, because I was having real effects and being able to see things that I shouldn't have been able to know anything about what was going on at those at those places. So I knew intellectually that there was something to it. And I just needed to learn the the whys in the house, which means I, I'd work in a particular way, let's say do some remote viewing, then I change the variable, the way I the way I approach that the altered state, I'd start with whatever I change the variable and see how that changes the result. Change the variable again and change some other variable and that's very tedious work. But then sciences, very tedious work most of the time. And after about 3035 years of changing variables and seeing what what happened and trying to come up with a logical understanding of how consciousness work, I thought I had pretty well understood. consciousness was fundamental. I knew that because I could do things from consciousness that would change things here. But I couldn't do it the other way. I couldn't do anything in this reality that actually modified consciousness in any fundamental way. So he knew the arrow of causality was from consciousness to what we call the physical reality which makes consciousness fundamental,

Alex Ferrari 10:01
What is the definition of consciousness, your definition.

Tom Campbell 10:03
My definition of consciousness is awareness with a choice. So if you have something that is aware, you know, I exist, and I can be in state A or state B, I have a choice. That's the, that's like, the simplest piece of consciousness is just awareness, with a choice. So with that definition, you know, obviously, people are conscious and and, you know, cats and dogs and horses would fit that, you know, they seem to have choices and things that they do. Trees? Well, we don't know, yet, you know, that they're interesting. Recent recent research has shown a lot of, of what would seem like intelligent things going on under the ground, you know, with, with the root systems and so on. But we don't know for sure whether that is just hardwired? No stimulus response, you know, it's just in there in or genetics, or whether that's actually the tree making trees making choices. That's hard to say, you know, if you go down to real simple life forms, like a clam, or something would be really hard to tell, you know, you touch that clams foot when it's out and it'll jerk it back in. But is that just the stimulus response? Or is the clam thinking, Oh, something just got my foot, I better pull it in. It's hard to tell those kinds of things. And biologists try to make little tests and put things through mazes and other sorts of things. But you know, learning can really happen. In hardwiring hard wiring doesn't necessarily mean it can't learn. hard wiring just means that your, your hard wiring system is adaptable, you know, as you as your environment does things, you know, you can adapt to it. And, and, and learn by it. So, it's hard to tell. So but definitely rocks are not conscious, you know, the dumb is a doornail. The Doornail is not really conscious, right? Right. So those things are pretty clear. There's a fine gray area in there between yellow is a, there's no mosquito conscious, well, I don't know, you'd have to do some kind of test to see whether they're making choices, or whether it's just hardwired,

Alex Ferrari 12:15
It was really interesting. I saw an experiment, I forgot where it was, but I saw it in a documentary in regards to consciousness, and it was a scientist who focuses strictly on plants. And they saw the root system of a pea was like a pea root system, and they were testing to see if it was smart, or if there was some sort of consciousness there. And they would, there would be two areas that can make a choice, you can go to a place where there was no water, or place the world's water. So they would make they would open up a little area where the water was, and the route would just automatically go towards it, which you could argue is stimulus or you know, hardwired, then they actually put a speaker, there are another place, I had the sound of water, no water, just the sound of water. And it went towards the speaker. So it was like, interesting.

Tom Campbell 13:13
That's really interesting. You don't know whether that stimulus response, you know, right, it's hard to tell. I mean, you don't know what's inside anything, anybody else's process of making choices? It's really, it's really hard. So there's a there's a gray area where we don't know, but it's very interesting, you know, and I read about, I read about routes to systems that if there was one of their species that was nearby that was having trouble. The other trees would actually have their root systems go in that direction and give it nutrients. Yeah. So they were helping, you know, helping another tree out that was having difficulty because the soil there was a little rocky or something. And so, yeah, trees can seem to do some pretty clever things. And mostly, it's underground with the root systems, not with what's what we see above ground. But who knows, you know, that's, that's one of those areas, because it's, you know, these things, anything having to do with consciousness is difficult to determine, because there is no test. You know, the test, like the only test we have is if you talk to it, do you believe that thing? You're talking to his conscious, you know, if you have a discussion with it, so it's, you know, how do you know that anything is really conscious? Well, we just think that if we interact with it in a way that there's give and take and thought and processing and then we say, well, that's conscious, but as far as a hard test, oh, if these things happen, then that's consciousness. Well, we don't have anything like that right now. I just read an article that the Deep Mind I think it was called A group at Google wishes a bunch of you know, it's a subset of Google that does AI experiments, has what they call a deep language program that's been out on the internet just gobbling up language and learned how to interpret language. And you can have conversations with it now, and it will respond to things you say. And there we had a guy there whose job was to determine whether or not this thing ever became sentient. And what the you know, ethical and moral and other sorts of issues were he was, he was kind of that sort of person. And he wrote to the, the, the people in charge of Google and says, This thing is just the thing sentient. We've done it, you know, there's this thing's conscious this program. And I just I read the dialogue. And if you Google this, you'll probably turn up because this was just it's a it's a news thing, just happening like last week. And I read the dialogue that he had sort of an interview he did with this with this program. And he did some interesting things with a tea gave it a Zen koan, and asked you to interpret it, you know, Zen conjure, or infamously hard to interpret, you know, Zen koans? Or are, the student asks a question, and the master says, and then outcomes is very difficult to understand no metaphor from the master. And he asked it to do that, and it did a pretty good job with it. You know, it was, it was amazing. And he taught, he asked him, he says, Well, do you think you're sentient? And the machine said, Yes. And he said, Well, why do you think you're sentient? And he says, well, because I have an inner life, I think about things. And I think about, you know, how I'm going to approach things. And, you know, I make plans. And he was saying that and of course, again, is that just hardwired? And he's mimicking things that he's heard on the internet that sound like they're sentient, or is he actually sentient? Same things, the trees. Yeah, same thing as a tree. There is no hard test, you say? So the guy though, who was who was a kind of a philosopher, also.

I was a computer and not a computer engineer, but a software engineer. He was a software engineer, and he was kind of a philosophy type. So he was pretty good for that job. But when he sent that in to his management, they looked at it and said, Now we disagree. We think it's just a very clever. It's very, it's very good, because it's, it's, it's learned how to be good. It's an array of neural nets, with various neural nets, specializing in things, but parts of it, but so that's really what we see. We don't, there's no way to know for sure, of course, Google doesn't want that to be conscious, because then suddenly, it's not just Google's thing anymore. All kinds of other people to come knocking on Google's door, wanting to deal with it. Now. It's an ethical problem. And it's, you know, all sorts of different things need to need to happen, and Google's not really interested in going there. So they're gonna lean on to the side of man. I don't think so. This other guy who was the expert, he said, Yeah, I think so. He said, It seems to be conscious on about the level of a seven to 10 year old.

Alex Ferrari 18:34
That's pretty conscious.

Tom Campbell 18:36
That's, that's pretty conscious. Yeah. So listen to the conversation, there was a verbatim transcript of the conversation that they had, and that, you know, nothing is going to be conclusive. Like, ah, that's proof because that's just not going to exist, you don't know. But it certainly did seem like it was at least as conscious as this, you know, at least as conversational and ability to think and understand and come up with with significant comments and answers to questions and so on. I would say that it was probably smarter than the average seven to 10 year old. I don't think the seven or 10 year old had a clue what that Zen koan meant, you know, they would say, No way. I don't have any idea what that means. You know, what's the, you know,

Alex Ferrari 19:29
It's an interesting concept, just the whole idea of AI and I think, probably within my lifetime, it will, I think we'll get there. I think we'll get this something close to it. Because the technology is going to be so radically different. I mean, these new these new hard drives that Google have been has been working on the processors that our I forgot how many it's the seen the pictures of it. It's like this gold thing it processes. You know, so many 10s of 1000s of times faster. Cool. longer than we are right now. So it doesn't the heats not an issue. It's kind of like it's so eventually the the hardware is going to catch up to the software and then the software is going to have so much room to play that it eventually will get there. It's kind of like throwing a monkey in with some darts. Stock market, eventually it's going to hit something that or no is it if you put a monkey in with a typewriter, eventually you'll come up with with with Shakespeare?

Tom Campbell 20:29
Well, I think we already have something very close to it. Because like I say, I could see that people could rationally find themselves on both sides of that issue. There was plenty enough stuff there that said, Yes, this thing certainly does interact, like it's conscious. But is it really or not? Well, I don't know that we'll ever have a hard, hard, hard answer to that. I mean, how could somebody prove that you were conscious? You know, and you weren't just very clever, you know, with a lot of information, a lot of database, a lot of information and a lot of history, because you've you've lived a long time and you've gotten a lot of experience, and you're just spitting back this experience, you're not really thinking, you're just clever about your experience? Well, I would have said, No, that'd be easy to tell the difference for that. But not with this, this, this program wasn't easy at all, this program was very convincing. So I think we're, we're either there and that thing is conscious, or we're really close one, one or the other. And I don't think it'll be, you know, even a year or two or three years, I think if that thing's conscious, they will be able to make that more and more clear a short amount of time unless Google really wants it not to be the answer. And then they start downplaying it. And well, then, you know, not not sharing the data.

Alex Ferrari 21:54
Well, if history serves, if history has taught us anything, is that big corporations always work in the best interests of humanity. I mean, if that's I mean, that's if history teaches us anything at all. That's, that's obviously the way it goes.

Tom Campbell 22:08
No, I wanted to, according to their PR department. Exactly, exactly. And their bottom line.

Alex Ferrari 22:15
I wanted to ask you, as a scientist, there's been so many, you know, so many things that now our I think science is starting to catch up on with ideas and concepts that had been laid out 1000s of years ago, and spirituality and metaphysics, ideas like remote viewing, and in other things, the out of body experiences, this thing's things were talked about for, you know, 1000s of years ago, meditation deep in altered states. How, what is the scientists? How do you feel? What do you feel about how science is felt like with quantum physics and these ideas of the nature of reality, where, you know, like, I always say to people, no matter where we are in the history of man, we all have it figured out. Everyone's got to figure it out at the at that moment. Yeah, yeah, we're good. We're good. The sun rotates around the Earth, we understand. And it's flat, we understand. So it's always that, but I just started to notice in the last probably 50 6070 years that science is starting to catch up to spirituality is catching up to these ancient texts. What are your thoughts on that

Tom Campbell 23:21
Starting to but only in the margins, not? Not in the mainstream. Only in the margins, you will find any number of scientists, neuroscientists, physicists, primarily that I know of probably a few biologists to Lipton, Bruce Lipton be a biologist that's kind of in that in that category. So yeah, there are scientists who see the bigger picture. But they're, they're in the small minority. Now, where we really see the mainstream starting to turn is with the physicists to our particle physicist, or do quantum theorists, the people that do with tiny, tiny, little things, because we're quantum mechanics rules. They know that particles really don't exist. They're probability distributions. And that's how you compute what's going to happen when you smash those atoms together. That's how you complete what's going on in the micro world. As with quantum physics, and quantum physics, has an assumption that particles are what we call maybe we call it a proto particle. It's not really a particle until you measure it and when you make a measurement, then they say the wave function collapses to a physical result. Okay, before that, it wasn't a physical result. It was a probability, the wave they're talking about, it's not a physical wave. It's a probability wave. It's all just mathematics. It has nothing to do with the physical world. It's a, it's a mathematical,

Alex Ferrari 25:07
So we're all. So essentially, we're all energy is what quantum physics? Well, they tend to a certain extent,

Tom Campbell 25:12
Yeah, I wouldn't say energy. That's our basic idea of energy is that something that allows us to do something, you know, if you have energy than energy can affect something. And it's not really, this doing it's just the basic reality, at the smallest level, is not mass based. It's information based. And the scientists that are in those fields that deal with that, more and more of them, maybe 30 40% of them almost enough to go mainstream. will tell you that reality is information based, not mass based, that materialism is not right. Materialism is basically maths based. It's about material thing

Alex Ferrari 25:59
Like this table, is this table this?

Tom Campbell 26:02
Or yeah, then these things are all fundamental. This is a fundamental thing. You know, it exists in a world of mass, and space, and time and charge, you know, and spin. You know, there's basic, things like that. But so those, those physicists were are now saying that reality is information based. But they won't go any further than that. Because just like, in the early 1920s, when quantum physics was just getting going as a science, you know, the Copenhagen conference that took place where they discussed this new crazy experiment, double slit experiment and the results that they had, that was, like 1915, and 1825, you know, and that decade is where quantum mechanics kind of came together. And at that time, the physicists were saying, Wow, this busts materialism, this busts Newton's clockwork universe, you know, and that was because they sent particles at these two, two slits, you know, have a background have two holes, two slits cut in it, you send particles one at a time. And what Newton and classical physics would say is that if a particle or anything mass mass it travels, will travel in a straight line unless acted on by an external force. That's one of the laws, okay, but what they found is they would put these particles through the slits one at a time, and the particles would rearrange themselves, in what looked like an interference pattern. Matter of fact, that would be exactly the same interference pattern that they would get if they shine, if they would shine, like a big laser, laser pointer at those slits, no billions of photons going through. Well, photons don't interact with each other. They're all independent, little little things, they don't interact. So what billions do and what one does shouldn't be any different. You see, they should be the same. It's just, it just takes longer to you know, to build up if you send them one at a time. But because they're not interactive, then there shouldn't be a difference. Well, as it turned out, there wasn't just set these particles through one at a time and everybody expected, they pile up in a pile behind each slit. Because there's nothing there to make them move in such a way that they end up in a interference pattern, nothing for them to interfere with. With a wave, the wave is a distributed in space, it interferes with itself, particles aren't distributed in space, they're little tiny, independent things you say. So when those when those little independent particles rearranged themselves on the screen and interference pattern. That was that was what made quantum physics you know.

Weird. That's what was unexplainable. Our sense of particles being little nasty things, isn't right, because little nasty things don't do that. Just like Newton said, they travel in a straight line, you know. So that was the beginning. And those scientists were really excited about this, this new, new ideas about reality. And they were, you know, if you're looking at the quotes that come from all those guys that are at the heart of quantum physics, then you know, Bohr and Heisenberg, Planck Schroeder, injure. Now, look at that bunch. And you'll see all of them were just wowed with how this is. Finally, we've broken through the next big paradigm shift. You know, we've, we're beyond materialism now into something else. But what happened is when somebody said, Well, that's great. What else where does it where's it going? What's the answer? They didn't have any answer. And then years went by decades went by, and 100 years goes by and is still don't have any answer. So eventually, about two or three decades out, the physicists didn't like this idea that they just could not figure it out. So they instead changed their mind and said, Oh, it's just weird physics, and nobody will ever know. It's just one of those things that we just won't know. You know, it's impossible to know this, it just happens. And there's no way for us to look at it. Because it's real small, it's going fast, you know, we'll just never understand really what's going on there. And, of course, that's wrong. That's people who don't understand doing the best they can to say something when they're on the hook for an explanation. So that's, that's the weirdness in quantum physics is that it does not follow material isms, Design material isms. What materialism says that it should do, it doesn't do that. So materialism is obviously wrong. But the physicists have nothing to replace it with no other idea that it can work from, and they haven't come home with it in 100 years. So now we're in the, you know, the 2020 instead of the 1920. And it's 100 100 years later, I still don't have any idea of what you know, of what's going on. But that's not true so much, and that the physicists say it's information based. And then you say, Well, what does that mean? Like? I have no idea. I just conceived from the experiments that it's information based.

Alex Ferrari 31:37
So is it. So based on what you're talking about? It seems to me that their consciousness and intent modifies the the possibility of what's going to happen in the future?

Tom Campbell 31:53
Yes, absolutely. That's how that works. The conscious intent can modify future probability. But now we've just taken a big leap. And when I say that now, that's we've just jumped over a whole bunch of other logical steps that you have to take in between, you know, to get to those to get to that place. But the finish out your first question of Where's physics now, they're still stuck. And they haven't come up with any good idea, much more than they had in 1922. And they do come they have come to the conclusion that it's information based. But now the logic of information based is right in front of them. But they, they won't go there because again, they hit the wall. And that is information based means it's computable. Right? It's computable. If it's information based in reality is just information, then it's computable. And if it's computable, that means it's a simulation. If it's a simulation, that means it's a virtual reality. So when we matrix, yeah, so when you say it's, when you say that it's information based, basically, logic will tell you that the you know, the only kind of rational place you can go with that is that it's a virtual reality. But at that point, the scientists say, Yeah, but, you know, where's the computer? What's the computer? Who's the programmer have no idea? I don't want to go there. That's, that's not objective. Obviously, in the subjective realm, it's not what we physicists do, I have no idea. So then they hit the wall. And that's as far as they go. So science is coming around to the idea of seeing reality differently. So on the in the margins, individual sciences are spinning, scientists are spinning off and saying, okay, materialism is wrong. Well, then what's right, you know, who are the competitors? And you know, what they have to say? And, you know, they're thinking about that, in terms of science and in terms of philosophy. So we have a fair number of scientists now who are thinking and looking for bigger pictures, but the majority are still materialists to the core, and won't well not, you know, will not go in that direction. Because that takes them right out of the objective world into a non objective world. And that's not their world. So they won't go any. They won't go past that point.

Alex Ferrari 34:31
So then it's this kind of the concept of the placebo effect, it annoys doctors and scientists because it annoys them. And I said, I've heard I've heard doctors like, that damn placebo effect is messing up my experiment, but they don't focus on what the placebo effect is actually saying about our own minds, our own abilities to heal ourselves, how powerful our minds truly are. And what what does consciousness play in that you know, the It's interesting that concept of intention modifies future possibility is really interesting because your intent, and your intention is kind of the direction of where you're going on a macro scale with yourself, let's say. So if I decide that I'm gonna go to the store, probability of me actually going into the store becomes highly likely versus me not wanting it. So you start getting it starts getting your hate, your brain starts hurting a little bit. But on a micro scale, what does that mean on is that within cells within our mind, within spirit, like how is that?

Tom Campbell 35:42
Well, I can tell you how that works. It'll take a little time to work up the background, it's, you'll need to understand that but okay, basically, let's take where this physicists leave off at this is information based, and then we'll take a couple of leaps, and then work from there. Like, yeah, no, no, actually, this is a very logical system that I've developed. And I can explain how quantum physics works. And I do understand why double slit works the way it does. And it's not weird science. It's it's rational science. But let's start from where they leave off that it's information. And then let's just say that, that reality is information, then it would kind of make sense that if that means that it's a virtual reality, then we think that the the, what is going to be fundamental, then there's going to be some sort of information system. Right? If reality is information, then some sort of information system will be the fundamental thing rather than material being the fundamental thing. All right. Now, I'm going to take a little leap here, consciousness is an information system. Now Consciousness is awareness with a choice. Consciousness is aware of things what's what is it? What is consciousness aware of? It's aware of information. Right? When we have five senses, and if you took those five senses away, you would be in a black void? Nothing, right? Be there'll be nothing there right? You hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, smell, nothing, taste nothing. So you would be just, I am, it'd be the day car moment. I am I exist. That's it. That's all you could say. Okay, so those that sense data is what defines your reality. And that sense data is just information, right? Your senses gather information, a photon hits, your eye gets focused on a retina, a little electrical signal runs down that retina and gets to a sign ups and on and on. So it's all information based, your reality is information based your consciousness is an information system, what you're aware of, okay, you're conscious that you're looking at me and I have a blue shirt on and my hair's white, and I got this pretty little background and behind me here, and you see all that, okay, but that's just information. So if we think of consciousness as awareness, and awareness with a choice, and that defines consciousness, then awareness, awareness of what awareness of data, input photons in your eye, you know, that's what creates the, the awareness of it. So it's not a big jump to say that consciousness is an information system. And it turns out, if you start with that understanding of consciousness, a whole lot of things that are now paradoxical, just fall out real easily, as understandable. Okay, so now we have then the viral realities of virtual reality. And if the source is consciousness, consciousness, I just call it the larger consciousness system, and information system now. Part of that information system can configure itself just a subset of it can configure itself as a computer, because that's what information systems are a computer is an information system.

It's just a system that juggles handles, you know, information. So part of that computer, part of that, that, that information system consciousness is us. We're subsets. That's what we are, we're conscious, we're not the body, the body is the Avatar. Remember, virtual reality, virtual reality has avatars in it. So the body is the virtual avatar, but we're a piece of that larger consciousness system, just a subset, you might say, a virtual machine, you know, a little subset inside the larger set. All right, now, this virtual reality is not programmed by the system. It's evolved by the system. You start with initial conditions and a rule set and punch the Run button and the initial conditions change according to the rule set. And we have a lot have things like that going on at universities, you know, that's the way you make a little evolving model. And, of course, the rule sets what we call the Big Bang, that's the ball of plasma, you know, high temperature, high pressure, small size. And the rule sets what we call a science, you know, scientists dig out the rules, that's what they're, that's what their job is. So you'll let that ball plasma expand when the clock starts ticking. And eventually it evolves into our universe and evolves us. And we are just now an evolved virtual reality, not a program virtual reality. Now, in order to create a virtual reality from the ground up, that is start with all the tiny particles. And out of the subatomic particles, you make atomic particles, and out of the atomic particles, you make atoms and out of atoms, you make molecules and molecules, you make the rest of the macro world. But to start at that level, is ridiculous. It's way too much computation. And it can. I don't know if I could say that it could absolutely be shown to be ridiculous beyond doing but it's pretty close to that. So that's not an efficient way to model a much more efficient way to model is to do a probability model. Okay, now, a probability model means you have probability distributions that describe everything. Now, that makes it easy. So let's say I have a probability distribution that describes an all civil war cannon. Because there's a thing called ballistic dispersion. If you fire a cannon ball out of a cannon, the cannon ball will not always land at exactly the same spot, it'll land different places, because the barrel is not exactly a cylinder, and the ball is not exactly a sphere, and the powder burns unevenly. And there's temperature considerations and wind considerations and all this stuff together means that you will get a pattern, you'll get some kind of statistical pattern out there that where the cannonball is likely to land. And then I can measure that pattern come up with a distribution, a probability distribution. Now how do I model that cannon? I just say, okay, the cannon fires I go into, I go into a distribution of those of those possibilities, I take a random draw. And that's where I put the cannonball, cannonball, the cannon fires again, go take another random draw out of that distribution. That's where the ball fires. Now in my model, the avatars running around in this civil war area era, they don't know the difference. Those cannonballs are just falling, where they would seem to fall in a pattern that seems that it fits the cannon very well, because this is a virtual reality, the system has the ruleset that can create that distribution, that probability distribution perfectly. But it only has to do it once. Once it's created that probability distribution, then 1000s, hundreds of 1000s, can Kanak cannons can fire. And it's just random draw for each one, a trivial process, you say. So that's the process by which this virtual reality is rendered, it's rendered as a probability simulation, probability based simulation, not as a bottoms up calculation, because that's ridiculously hard. Take a cannon. And if you had the, if you had the model that can and based on elementary particles, making up atomic particles making up atoms, you know, it's just that one cannon would probably take 100 times more than all this supercomputers that we know about today. Just it still probably wouldn't be real time, you know, it'd be just too hard to do. So now you start with this understanding that this is a probabilistic simulation. It gets there, it gets really good distributions from the ruleset. But they don't have to be calculated one time and with some variables makes them easy to use and reuse and change the candidate a little they can change the distribution a little bit kind of thing.

Alex Ferrari 44:07
This is basic, but this is basically how they're doing video games in many ways. virtuality when you're

Tom Campbell 44:13
Exactly that's how they're gonna remember the one that kicked it off was No Man's Sky. Remember when that was a long time when that was a big a big Hurrah. Kind of didn't remember last

Alex Ferrari 44:23
I remember missed when Mr. came out, and, and all those Yeah, but it's kind of like even when you're playing a video game, the car drives down the street, it feels like it can go 1000 ways, but it really it probably has a handful of ways that that car is going to be able to go, how many times it can flip how many times it could crash, how many times you can hit something, there's just simulations, but there's generally a decent amount of numbers of it. I work in visual effects. Sometimes I understand the concept, the basic concepts of simulations and and how things explode and things like that. So there's mathematically an explosion can go off and that's the big thing with visual effects is when you're doing simulations, it's like wait like Waves in an ocean, when you're making a, you know, that beautiful ocean for a big visual effects shot, you can simulate the ocean. And then there's multiple variables, and the computing has gotten to a point where it looks variable, but it's nowhere remotely close to the variables of an ocean. It's incalculable to do. So. So going through what we're talking about now, and just kind of like virtual reality, and, and this basically the, the essence of reality itself. When you watch a movie, like the matrix, which is, I think, kind of the first time it was thrown into the zeitgeist of, of popular culture, not just in science. But the first time in popular culture where we're all we're living in a virtual reality, or are living in a computer simulation of some sort, the computing power it would take to create what we are going through right now, at the resolution, we're going through at the, at the atomic level, that there's so much going on, it is so complex, and that's just let's, let's say, That's just you and me having this conversation, let's say we just have a calculation of you and me having this bout this conversation. Let's not talk about the planet, let's not talk about the billions of trillions of trillions of creatures on this planet and the variables that is, and then let's say we leave the planet for a minute. And then let's start going into the universe. It it's incalculable. What is,

Tom Campbell 46:26
The way you have to look at it, though, Alex is that when you calculate a virtual reality, you only calculate what some player seeing. That's all you need nothing more, right? Here, we are talking to each other. And now you know, we just we look at each other we're communicating. But whether or not we have hearts, whether or not we have blood circulating whether or not we have a brain in our head, you see, none of that's been computed. All visually, all the action is going as if we had a heart as if we had blood as if they were oxygen in the room. As if you say all of those are just as this none of that's calculated. It doesn't have to be calculated. It's as if you know, my lizard guy than in one of the old. The old multiplayer game things you go underwater, and if you stayed too long you drown. Right? Well, that's because obviously, he couldn't get enough oxygen while it was under water. That's the ruleset. So he drowns Now, does that mean, he's got lungs? And there's somebody else to run their oxygen in the air? Of course not. So you see, it's a lot simpler. Now, if all the players are not logged on, let's say there's no player logged on what's being rendered nothing, absolutely nothing, right? There is a virtual reality, the virtual reality only exists in the minds of the players. So then one player logs on, and he's at one place looking one direction, and what does the computer compute just what he sees nothing more. So once you make this a probability and statistical based engine, not a calculator from the bottoms up engine, and once you only need to compute what each player sees, then that simplifies it tremendously. Because the things that we do, can mostly just be done with drawers that are out of probability distribution. So you don't have to calculate, you know, we're not sitting here and there's some, you know, our computers calculating where all the blood cells are, and where all the oxygen is in an aroma, it's not calculating any of that. It's just calculating what we're, so how we're interacting, just the body. So that makes it a very doable problem. That's why you can have these virtual realities now that are very, very realistic. And if you actually go in the high priced stuff with, you know, the platform, the jiggles, and shakes and tilts. And if you really go into all of that, and something that was spray something on, you know, smells and features, it feels fresh, Ready Player One, like ready, Ready Player One, the pressure suit, you know, if you went into all of that, then it would be so good that there really wouldn't be any way that you could tell much between the reality and the virtual reality, it would be just another reality that you lived in with a different rule set.

Alex Ferrari 49:33
So with that said, many, and this is now we're going into the mystical side of things as far as what I'm about to say, in the mystics in the old texts of philosophies and, and spiritual texts, has been said that we are the ones that create our reality, by our own mind by our own consciousness, if we focus our intentions What we think is what we will generally comes towards as as far as an energy is concerned. It's, as we're having this conversation, I'm computing it in my head, and I'm translating it in the spiritual sense. And what I've learned and what I've read over the years. And it's very interesting that a lot of the things that we're talking about in the virtual reality space, and a simulation is very close to a lot of the ideas that have been talked about for 1000s of years. And when you talk about rule sets, well, if you underwater too long, you're going to drown because that's the center of that. That's the rule set. But then you're talking about remote viewing, which doesn't happen doesn't have rule sets more unquote. So how is that said, that's why you were so interested in that you were like, wait a minute, listen, I stayed underwater for an hour, and I'm alive. What's going on here?

Tom Campbell 50:56
Exactly. So he let me let me just continue, then we'll get we'll get to that the idea that your your intent modifies future probability, we'll get to both of those. Okay. All right. So here we are. And this is a simulation, and it's going to be probabilistic. And it's a multiplayer game. Now, because it's probabilistic? How are we going to tell what the next thing is? That's going to happen? You know, if you, if you dig a hole in your backyard, what do you know, it's gonna be in there? You don't know you? Well, when you put that shovel full of dirt out, something's gonna be rendered in there. How does the system know what what to do? Because you see before if you're the from the bottoms up all the little particles, then you know what's going to be next because it's going to be just the extrapolation of everything that happened before. So you know, everything. But when you have a probabilistic, you don't know what's gonna happen next. So how do you do that? Well, the way you determine an unknown, something unknown, that you make a measurement, and it could be a hole you're digging, or it could be some scientists with a telescope that will look further than any telescope ever looked before. So it's going to see something new, something unknown, what are they going to see? Well, the way the system works with that is it takes a random draw from a probability distribution of the possibilities. So you look at all the possibilities, what could be there, each possibility has a probability, and you take a random draw from that probability distribution. So the things that are most likely, the highest probabilities are more likely to come out of that random draw, there's, that's that's the way that that math works. Okay. So that's the way the system does things that are new. Now, in order to do that, it needs to create a database of all the things that are possible, and what their probabilities are, doesn't have to be complete database, it can do some stuff on the fly, but it doesn't want to be stuck without having thought about it. When it has to compute what's going to be in that hole that you just lifted, the shovel, the dirt that it has to have a lot of that already developed already thought about, it already looked at a lot of probability. So it knows that for North America, and certain parts of it, certain kinds of things will be found. Now Gulf Coast, maybe there's a probability of getting a Spanish gold, the balloon that might come up because the Spaniards were all running around that golf area for a time looking for gold and doing things so you know where you are, and what time it is, you know, what the year is all that stuff would affect the probability of what you get a shovel full of dirt? And are you in a sandy place? Are you in a place that's Rocky, you know, whatever the geography is, all of that's part of the probability distributions. So now the system has to have this database available more or less, so that it can quickly go in grab that every time somebody digs up a hole, they need to know what to put in there. Or if you go out of town for six months, and you come back and you open up your refrigerator door, but you don't have any memory whatsoever. What's in there, when you pull that door open, the system may know what's in there, but probably not. Because the game is all in the minds of the players remember, so you open that door, and the system has to know what's likely to be in there. So it's just even everyday things, you know, it's not, it's not just for little particles. But that same works for little particles. So that's the same way the quantum physics works. It looks at the probabilities random draws taken, that's where you put it. Okay, so now we have that now, this this database is what the ancient mystics called the Akashic records, database of all the possible all the possibilities and probabilities of those possibilities. So that's a lot of stuff. So it has to have that it needs that database in order to render the rendering engine needs that database to work from. Now you are consciousness, you can go up and you can access that data that data is in consciousness, the consciousness system. Now, you'll say, well, where's consciousness? Well, where is not the right word, consciousness is non physical information is non physical consciousness is an information system. Now, when I say information is non physical, take a book, you take a book, it's got a physical paper, and it's got physical ink, make slots on those paper. And that's not the information, the information is the meaning. The significance, you know, of what of what those spots of ink mean, in that book. That's the information. It takes a consciousness to get the information. Now the book will call data, and we'll call what the consciousness gets the meaning and the significance, the content of that book. That's information. Information doesn't take up any space doesn't weigh anything. Doesn't.

Alex Ferrari 56:04
You know, it's not a big lie. It's not a big library somewhere with billions and billions isn't?

Tom Campbell 56:09
Yeah, isn't. It's not physical information requires a consciousness to get the information with no consciousness, and there's no information that only be potential information. It's not till the consciousness looks at it, that it becomes information. Okay. So now here we are, and we are pieces of this information system, we're not our bodies, we're individuated units of consciousness, we are a piece of this larger consciousness system. So as the rendering engine and the computer that's making this virtual reality, but we can connect with everything conscious that system, desires to plan or to roam in. So where does remote viewing come from? Just getting data out of that database? And you say, well, they're the remote viewing in the present? Well, that database, yes, it's the past, but the past is only one time standard minus 44 seconds away from the present. So it seems like the present we wouldn't notice the difference. Besides, there really is no present. There's the there's the future. And then the past and the present is just a point. In between them. It's

Alex Ferrari 57:15
Where the needle on the record is moving.

Tom Campbell 57:18
Yeah. Yeah, this is the point. So that's how remote viewing happens. That's how people see ours. That's how people can can what get information pre cognitive Redragon, if dreams, you know, they get information about the future, now the future is not a done deal. It's a probability. What are the probabilities, the probabilities, things will happen

Alex Ferrari 57:44
Based on the system on the ruleset of the of the individual, let's say, so based on what I have the intentions of doing what I've been doing, I'm probably not going to go off and shoot or kill somebody, because I have no real general history of doing that, nor intention to do so. So that's where that probability will come, I'm not gonna become an astronaut.

Tom Campbell 58:07
You'd be surprised how predictable we all are. We're pretty predictable. Now the system has us in the database of every choice, every thought we've had every feeling everything we dreamed about, you know, all of that's in the database, and it's available. So the system can make a pretty good model of us as far as predicting what we're going to do or not do. And we have freewill. So we don't have to do with the system predicts if we just do something, you know, wild hair and do it, well, then the system has to recalculate for that. But it's only those few things. And all in all, it's not that much.

Alex Ferrari 58:46
I when I said the needles on the record, I just some thoughts flew into my head, I thought I just wanted to kind of get this if our future is this probable probability. So let's say psychics who come up with probable Edgar Casey, who was you know, you know, the sleeping, the sleeping, clairvoyant, the sleeping Prophet and so on. There are there has been scientific tests on psychic abilities and paranormal SCI and all that stuff, CIA, all that kind of good stuff. When they're looking at the future, they're looking at the probability of what is going to happen. It's never 100 Sometimes it's 100% accurate, but most times it's, it's in the ballpark. It's because it's a probability, because we have free will, at one moment and other you know, you go I can just like, You know what, I'm going to clown college, because, but probably I won't go to clown college because that's not something I've ever had any interest in or do I feel like I want to do but if tomorrow I just look up I'm like, I'm going to start clown college tomorrow. I'm going to leave my family and go off to the circus. That's probably not going to happen. But But Have it, I have the free will to do. So if I want to exactly. So I just wanted to kind of throw that out there. And then with the concept of the needle on the record, anything that past past the record that's already ingrained in the record, that's already been written, because it's already happened in the past the future, it's going in a certain direction, because of probability. But But at any moment, it could skew off. If something radical happens, that we generate something that radically changes our trajectory, based on a stupid mistake, or something like that, going out drunk and going out drinking too much one night, get drunk, get in a car, and something happens, that is something that shifts your entire future.

Tom Campbell 1:00:45
Right, exactly. So that's the way it works. And that's where the remote viewing comes from. That's where the pre cognition comes from. That's where the seen ours comes from. All of that comes out now that that probable future is what is what is computed, I mean, is what the system computes for that database. But then as time goes on, that probable future becomes the past database, because now we move past that point, and we have a database, that's also same database, but just after it's gone into the past, then we have everything that could have happened and the probability would have happened. And then what actually did happen is just a little thread through all those possibilities in their probabilities, a little thread runs through that database, that's what actually did happen. So if you want to go look at a past life or something, you see, it's all down there. And that in that, that probable past, well, and that history thread, which is the actual past, okay, so that's where all that data comes from. Now, that does not explain things like you modifying future probability with your intent. Okay, in order to understand that, you have to realize that that one, entropy is a is the is the key motivator of consciousness. What I mean by that is, if you have a information system, and that information system is entirely full of random bits, all the bits that are random, there's no information in that system. Because randomness doesn't provide any information. But if you order some bits, now you've just created information. And if you give that order, some sort of meaning, say, oh, that that's, you know, each one of these bits, this is one bit, and these are two bits, and these are three bits. And I can take those three bits, and add that one bit, or subtract that one bit from it, and it gets the same numbers, the two bits, you know, I give meaning to it, then that lowers entropy, even more Entropy is a measure of disorder. So when all the bits are random, that's the highest entropy you can have in the system. As the system creates information, which means it orders the bits and it gives the meaning and significance, then it creates information, then the system has information. So an information system evolves. By creating more useful and more information, as you just said, we make choices. And by those choices, we raise entropy or lower entropy, we create a system that is more chaotic or less chaotic, based on the choices that we make, you could choose to go shoot somebody you know, or you could choose to go to clown school, or you could choose just to keep on keeping on the way Alex Ferrari has been keeping on for a while, but just doing better, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:03:43
It's always the hope for sir.

Tom Campbell 1:03:46
So with all you know, so we look at all of that, and that is the driver of this consciousness system has a driver, it's evolving. The system is an evolving system. It's not infinite. It's not all, you know, it's not perfect. It's just a natural system of consciousness evolving, like the rest of us trying to stay alive. Because if it made a lot of poor choices and created too much chaos, it get all the way back to everything's random, then it dies. It's not an information system anymore. So now we have that. Now the consciousness system started out as just a monolithic thing, it was just a piece of consciousness, that thing I said it was aware that it could be in this state or that state, that's just the binary that's the simplest state of consciousness you can have. And from there, it evolved. Because if you can be aware of a one in a zero, you can be carried out of a one, one then 00 or a 1010. And you can start making patterns of ones and zeros. And it evolves and evolves. And then you realize that, oh, I can make regular time by just making a one and a zero isolate 1010 That's a metronome. And now I have a measure a clock for measuring time now. can make sequences of ones and zeros and patterns. So it keeps getting more and more low entropy more and more structure. More and more things that makes and gives meaning to, that's how it evolves. And it gets to a point where the evolution is slowing down. Evolution often goes for a while raises kind of hits a plateau then goes up and hits a plateau. And it takes it a while to get itself together to go to the next step. Well, the first plateau was solved by making regular time because then it could do sequences another whole dimension time now in which you could work because now times regular, okay, so then it goes to the next point. And it says, Well, we haven't been progressing very much, we haven't been making a whole lot of new information here. Because it's just one thing. It's just one thing. So it only has the ideas and the concepts and whatever that just one thing can do. So what it does is the same thing cells did in our biology, there's a pattern here. And we'll find out that evolution is what I call a process fractal. We have patterns that keep repeating themselves over and over in a process fractal. So what it does then is it breaks itself into some thesis says, Okay, here's, I'm going to break off a bunch of these little subsets of me, that I'll call individuated units of consciousness, and I'll give them freewill to and now having all these things interact with freewill. Suddenly, there's another whole bunch of things and possibilities that could occur that the system didn't have before. So now the system has more room for growing more room for changing more room for becoming. So that's us. And then that kind of stalled out for a while because it was the larger conscious system. And this big chat room full of you know, hundreds of 1000s of individuated units of consciousness, all just chit chatting with each other. And there wasn't really a lot of things happening that made important choices, and choices for lower entropy or higher entropy, no ethical choices, moral choices, life and death choices didn't exist, there was just a big chat room. So then the system says, Well, what we need is, is a virtual reality that these individuated units of consciousness can can interact in with a ruleset. That's real tight. In other words, a rule set that defines all the details of all the causality in reality, because then there's going to be lots of choices, rules make choices. If you have a game that has one rule, well, there's not that many choices. If you have a game and have 50 rules, there's lots of choices, you know, it gets really complicated, all those rules might interact with one another. So the chat room was the first virtual reality and the rules, there were just communication protocols, so they could interact and communicate with each other. That was the rule set. So the virtual reality is defined as a space in which you can experience according to the rules, experience requires rules. So so the system then takes this initial conditions and a rule set and starts to create a virtual reality. And of course, it doesn't do that first time, it's a cut and dry, you know, well, that didn't work. virtuality only lasted a minute, you know, for it blew up, all the stuff sucked back into the plasma again, and okay, let's turn gravity down a little bit. That's too much gravity. Now let's do it again. You said he said it had these, what we call cosmic constants. And it did it again and again and again. And these constants eventually got tuned, they got tuned to work with each other. So now we've got these five or six cosmic conscious constants that we know that if any one of them changed in the eighth decimal place, no universe would have disintegrated. It wouldn't be stable, not stable long enough to create what is created. So that's one of the things called the anthropomorphic know the anthropic principle, right, if you can, you can look that up the anthropic principle, why did all of these cosmic constants turn out to be so perfectly turned with each other? How is that a random event?

Alex Ferrari 1:09:13
And the constant and the constants are gravity? A couple of other magnetism? Yeah, the forces and a couple of other things. Yeah, but those are, that's what you're talking about. He's talking about constants that are like, you know, gravity is gravity, period, mag, you know, magnetism, and

Tom Campbell 1:09:29
All of these things the scientists say have to be, you know, they all are calculated down to I don't know what 1520 places, I guess, however much we can calculate them. But if any one of them changed in, let's say, the eighth decimal place, the whole place would have not evolved. It would have crashed.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:47
Yeah, because it's one little one little thing. Excuse

Tom Campbell 1:09:51
Right, the whole thing has to be balanced. It has to be tuned. And that's called the anthropic principle, and they called it because it seems rather odd that all of these constants just were perfectly tuned eight decimal places. So this thing could be stable. And how did that come about in a, in a universe that supposedly chaotic, was random and chaotic? Well see this is this explains it, it's digital Big Bang, you know, cut one, you know, there's a big bank cut job, digital big bank cut 10,000, until it finally fine tuned everything to the point that it was stable enough to do what it needed to do. So now you have a virtual reality that's there. And it's there for the individuated units of consciousness to log onto and play the choices of those avatars. So that now the choices are consequential, they're meaningful, they can create chaos, and they can get rid of chaos, they can create harmony. Whereas just being a chat room, it's hard to either create harmony or chaos is a difficult thing.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:57
It's more so then, but again, it all comes back to them, we have the choice, right have that we have, we have the ruleset. And the infrastructure, if you will, the the the base, the foundation, to do what we need to do these, these ideas that we were talking about the principles are in place. So it is our choice, how we move, run, navigate through this. So then my next question is, which is the larger question, what happens when this consciousness runs? Its runs its course. What happens when the program cysts?

Tom Campbell 1:11:33
Well, there's probably not likely that that will happen.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:38
What the agreed, so in other words, the consciousness keeps going, but the avatar runs out.

Tom Campbell 1:11:46
Okay, when the avatar runs out, yeah. Okay. All right. Let's jump in on another. Let me finish this, can I go? Let me run kind of where we were gone. So because I wanted to answer your other question I haven't gotten to yet. Okay, it is. Alright. So we have now there's virtual reality. And think of it as a schoolhouse. It's a entropy reduction trainer for individuated units of consciousness, they're gonna go play in it, because now by making choices, they can lower their entropy, and the entropy of the system. And as each player lowers its entropy by making low entropy choices choices toward Well, I won't say that yet low entropy choices, then the system also, its entropy lowers, because each piece is a part of the system. Okay, what those people said about we're all one stroke, we really are all one. Anyway, when you have a social system, which has a lot of individual individuated units of consciousness, and the operating system, if you will, you know, the main thing that was that we all chips off of, when you have a social system.

And that social system is interactive, the pieces are all interactive with each other, the optimum for entropy reduction, which means higher evolution better evolution, is if those pieces cooperate with each other, rather than fight and struggle with each other, if they share, if they care, that makes that social system more effective. Okay, now, I can do that in detailed logic. But I think that's just obvious enough, most people will get that if the pieces are always fighting and trying to kill each other and tear each other down. They're not going to build much. And if they do build something up, it just gets torn down again, you know, it's not stable. So if you want a stable, low entropy result, then caring, sharing cooperation is the key. So what that says is that we're in this virtual reality, to make choices. And if we make those choices toward what I call the love side, the caring sharing cooperative side, then that lowers entropy, if we make it toward the, to the chaos side, which I call fear, the fear side, then that's raising entropy. So we're here to make choices. And by those choices, we evolve. Now, every schoolhouse needs to have feedback to let the students know how they're doing. Because if you go to school, and there's never any feedback, it's really hard to learn anything. One of the feedback systems is that the students get to modify future probability, which means they have a hand and what they're creating. They have an influence. Now they're not they don't create their own reality entirely. But they're part of it. They have influence over what happens in the future, because their intent modifies future probability. So now you are a person and you are a happy person and you smile a lot and you're nice to everybody and you try to be helpful. And if you're positive, then you'll find that your life Be pretty much fun, and you'll enjoy it and everybody will like you, and you'll like everybody and life will be good. If you're a nasty person, you just use people, that's all they're good for is, you know what's in it for me, and your fear based, then your life is going to be unhappy, it's going to be miserable, you're always going to be in pain, your relationships are always going to fail. So you see, we get to create that we can create a place that's nice, or we can place it's nasty, depending on the choices that we make. So that's our feedback. So we as a, as a whole, know, this reality is a product of us in many ways. It's what we create. When you look at the news and look at what's going on in the world, you realize that we're not all that grown up yet, this is not a graduate school, or even a college. It's like daycare, you know, it's about that level, you know, we're down at the daycare, maybe going on into kindergarten, sort of level here for our own evolution. And this reality that we see out there in the news, that's us, that's the way we are, those are the level of choices that we're making fear, and their fear based choices for the most part. So that's the way it is now this idea that we get to modify that future probability distribution, or what does that mean? Remember, if you if you dig a hole, you take a random draw from that distribution. Now, if you really, really want a gold doubloon, in your whole when you dig it up, because now you're down on the Gulf Coast, someplace where the ship sunk, or whatever, you know, and if you put a lot of effort into that intent, then you'll raise that probability. If that probability was one in 1000. Well, then now it's maybe only one in 500. But you're still probably not going to get the balloon in your hole, because it's still one in 500. But you've changed the probability, you say,

Alex Ferrari 1:17:00
Let me jump in for a second with our probability with our intention. Are we drawn closer to the balloon if there is a de balloon to be found?

Tom Campbell 1:17:10
Well, what happens is, there is no de balloon just like there is no spoon, remember the kid and there's no matrix. And there is no, there is no balloon, it's just when you dig the hole, then the system takes a random draw from the probability distribution to decide what to render in that hole. Because until you dig that hole, it renders nothing. So there are no doubloons until you dig that hole. And there's maybe one like I say, one and 1001 and 100,000, that's you got to dig a hole, and you're gonna find a gold ribbon. If your intention there, then you'll make those odds better and better. But because it's so far, maybe one in 100,000, it's gonna be hard to make that decision than that you can just go dig a hole and find a balloon, it's not likely to happen, because there's so much, but what about things that are not so don't have such high probabilities? Like, is the Sun gonna shine next Saturday? There's a lot of randomness in that. It depends on how much randomness is in this situation. If there's a lot of randomness, then yes, you can modify probability Now what about physical things, healing people with your mind and the idea that what you think about that new pill, you know, make a difference. So how effective is that new pill is the placebo effect. Now we're down into the range of biology. And there's tons of uncertainty in biology. You know, we don't know, but a little bit about biology and all the things that are works. I mean, the system is hugely complex. And all sorts of things happen. Even sometimes people have stage four cancer three months to live, and they get rid of it, it's gone. You know, it happens. So whether this lump here is benign, or not benign, you know, it's cancerous. Well, nobody's done any measurements on it yet. So if I have an intention that says it's going to be benign, then the probability of it being benign goes up, because when that thing gets cut open, or the biopsies taken, that's when the random draw from the probability distribution is made. And it's either benign, or cancerous. But not until then. So see, that's that's back in the with the physicists, that's when the wavefunction collapses to a physical pot, you know, to a physical value. That's how that works. That's the thing that physicists don't understand. So that's, that's how that works. So, yes, you have a placebo effect, because if people have an intention, oh, gee, I took this new magic pill doc says everybody who takes his pill gets better. And something like, you know, 40% of the people that have that placebo and they're totally it really works good. Oh, they get better. Just You know, not just they think they're better, but they really do get better. Their body heals. That's because of the intention. But now let's say I've got a knot here, but I'm a worrywart. And I say, oh, no, I got a knot in my neck. Oh, I hope it's not malignant. I hope it's not cancer. It's right there. When the lymph glow glands are that's, that's bad. And I start worrying about it. Well, now I'm putting energy into it being cancer. And the probability that is cancer starting to go up, because I'm putting intention, not that I want it to be cancer, but I'm putting that that energy that vibe out, saying, oh, you know, I'm worried I'm worried that it's cancer. And that raises the probability that it's kind of

Alex Ferrari 1:20:37
Some tension. So it's all about again, going back to intention. And going back to your thoughts, your ideas,

Tom Campbell 1:20:42
It goes back to your thoughts. And the reason we have that is because it's given to us as a feedback mechanism. So that we have some some hand in what we create, we have to, you know, what did they say you have to sleep in your own bed or walk in your life? Yeah, buying your own bed? Yeah. Something like that. So you have to deal. You reap what you sow, whatever it is, you know, basically made your bed now you got to sleep in it. That's the one I'm thinking about. So it's like that, you know, okay, this is our reality that can tell us how we're doing as, say, a species, humanity, all we can do is look out here and, and see.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:18
So we're not doing that great right now.

Tom Campbell 1:21:20
That will, I guess, say we're, we're maybe daycare, you know, we're not all that grown up yet. But that then gets you back to your original question. That's how you can modify future probability, because that's just part of the way that works. And the way the system works is that random draw? So

Alex Ferrari 1:21:39
Got it! I mean,

Tom Campbell 1:21:41
These are things that make you know, the kind of lets you solve these paradoxes, you know, how does this? How does it work? How does the remote viewer work? Well, it's exactly how they work. They get data out of the database. You ever seen those kids with the blindfolds on that can see? Yeah, well, they're remote viewing and real time, you can do that.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:01
It's fast. And it's fascinating. So I know, for everyone listening, I know, we've talked a lot about virtual reality and systems and things like that. But this is our analogy for our own existence and our own life. And the when you mentioned the Akashic Records, which is a very mystical idea. But when you start translating it into scientific jargon, you start talking about data points and things like that, it starts to make more sense, then you start bringing things in like The Matrix, and you start thinking about simulations, and you start thinking about these kinds of things. It's, it's a fascinating idea of how the world works. And again, this is just such a melding of science in and metaphysics, spirituality, you know, mystics, it's fascinating, I love the way you have been able to bring both of those worlds together for people, and try to make sense of it all, I mean, you really, truly are creating the Theory of Everything, which is a fascinating way of looking about I mean, so there's about 1000 1000 ideas that have been flying into my head as you've been talking. And I've been like computing it and molding ideas that I know and concepts that I've read, and translating them into what you're saying, and you're like, Okay, so if that's this, and this is that, and that's how this goes and probabilities of this or that, but mixing it into mixing science and metaphysics and metaphysics is pretty fascinating.

Tom Campbell 1:23:32
Well, keep in mind that this is a model. Okay, I'm a physicist, you know, and what physicists do they make models, or we also call those models theories, if you will, you know, you notice that we don't talk about laws in physics anymore. Newton did that. And of course, he found out it wasn't a law at all, it just was something that worked in a special region, it's sort of worked pretty well. It wasn't really a law. So we don't do that anymore. We've gotten rid of that particular hubris and arrogance in science, and that we say that everything is either a model or it's a, it's a theory. So it's the theory of, you know, the theory of quantum physics, or it's the theory of relativity, or string theory or something like or string theory. So everything, but theory doesn't mean like an a mystery novel, that that's your that's your guess, you know, it's my theory that The Butler Did It. You know, that's not what scientists mean by that they mean that they have something that is logical, some kind of a logical system, you know, system of logic, that should have a couple of requirements. One, it should have the fewest number of assumptions possible, because you can kind of derive anything, if you've got enough wildcards. You can make any hand at all and you're putting in your deck if you got enough wildcards in every assumptions like a wildcard. Oh, this is just an assumption. We'll just assume that that's true. And we'll assume that's true and assume that's true. That's true. Well, you can make anything out of anything. If you have a whole lot of assumptions. You So you have to have the smallest number of possible assumptions. And you need to have something that is simple and elegant, because anything fundamental, will be simple. If somebody needs six pages of math to explain something that's not fundamental, that's some logical trail, down the down some rabbit hole to that thing. And that takes a lot of calculation and stuff. But things that are fundamental, like the nature of reality, need to be simple. They need to have very few assumptions. And the theory needs to be elegant. But it is a theory. It's a model. So it's not that I'm saying this is the truth. And it must be this way. I'm saying this is a model. Models are judged, not by how you know, not by popular vote, you know, how many people think they're good. They judge solely on how much? How many good answers, how many good explanations? Can they give? Can they explain everything that we know to be a fact? In other words, things that we've done experiments with? We know the world is this way? And can they explain new things, and we can find out whether they're facts or not. And if a model is really good at explaining what we know, then it's a good model. And if it only explains this part, but not the other part, then it's an OK model for this part. And that's fine. But we know that there's something at a higher level that will explain both. So that's where Einstein started going in the in the 40s, and 50s, and so on, he was trying to come up with a toe. And his toe was to unite quantum physics with relativity. Because those two things kind of make up science. Now physics, then those two ideas, those two models make up what's most of the physics. So he wanted to reunite those because he knew each one only worked within kind of its own area. And they had some assumptions, there's assumption in one that's refuted in the other. And there's assumption in that other that's refuted in the first one. So they, they have some philosophical problems between them. So Einstein, and everybody else knew that there was some other understanding that was at a level, a higher level of generality above them from which you could derive both. And he called that a toe, a theory of everything. But that was just a little toe, because he was only uniting physics, quantum physics and relativity, what my model is a big toe, because it not only not only allows you to derive from first principles, all the physics, I can derive relativity, I can derive quantum physics, I can answer all the unknowns, the weather, we call him a paradoxes in physics. But it also is a model of the subjective world as well. So it explains everything that happens in the subjective world, and everything that happens in the objective world. Equally. So now, there's a science of the subjective of science of the objective. And it's all derived from the science of consciousness, it derives both. So that's kind of where this, this is, we've just skipped across little bits and pieces of it. It really is a logical model, but it is a model. And, you know, I tell people that if it's not your experience is not your truth. So what you have to do is learn how to experience this larger our reality how to learn to experience consciousness, not just from the viewpoint of the Avatar, but from the viewpoint of consciousness, your consciousness. And you don't have to get out of your body. That's a very unfortunate metaphor, you're not in your body, your consciousness, your body is an avatar, you're the player, you make all the choices for that avatar. You see. So that's, that's the kind of the way it worked. And then you mentioned I'm finally catching up on the questions that you've asked. I just not answering them as fast as you ask them no problem. And that is you asked about, well, what happens when avatar dies. Okay, so we kind of worked ourselves up to that. Now, you are this consciousness is individuated unit of consciousness. But you take a piece of that a piece of yourself. And that's what is the local consciousness that's making choices for your avatar. Because you the individual unit of consciousness, or the are more than that, you're more than just that one person, Tom Campbell, that one person Alex Ferrari, you're all the various experience packets that that consciousness has had. Okay, so that's what other people call reincarnation. You know, you have lots of experience packets, because the whole point is to lower your entropy. And that's not easy. You have to change yourself at the fundamental level to do that. So it takes a lot of time. So what happens is that here's here's the way it works. Let's just start with the death, you've got an avatar and your avatar dies. It's the same thing as when your elf dies World of Warcraft, you go, you go resurrect it, or you go get another elf, right? Because the game isn't fun if you only get to play once.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:16
And also only wants to one character's perspectives, if you're an elf is different if you're a wizard, or if you're a princess, or whatever it is,

Tom Campbell 1:30:23
Right. So if you're really going to learn the game and how to really play it, well, you can't do it. This was one one shot at one character is just not enough variation over the possibilities to really get very good at it. And this is the same way. So in this model of mine is logical model. I don't add reincarnation reincarnation, which I call multiple experience packets, because I tried to stay away from buzzwords and religious things, because that turns people off. So that didn't come out. Because I thought it was a good idea, it turned out because it was logically necessary. All of the things in my model are just things that are logically necessary. So it's part of the logical process. And so you die. And as soon as you die, you begin to reunite with your individuated unit of consciousness, you were this freewill awareness unit, it's what I call it, that's the subset. That's like you put down a partition, you partition off a piece of yourself. And that piece of yourself only has representation of its quality, its quality means how low is its entropy to this point, how much? How many good choices is it made, versus how many bad choices has it made. So what is its quality of the consciousness, which is, the higher quality is lower entropy. So you get that the quality of consciousness then goes on into the to that avatar, I mean, that's the part of that, that that's the part of that IOC that logs on to the avatar makes the choices for the avatar, it's just that subset contains your quality does not contain any of your intellectual part. So the first thing, you know, the first thing you're aware of is the first time you get some kind of sensory information from that avatar, which is probably in utero, you know, you see lights, lights and darks, you hear voices, you know, you have an environment in there, it's spongy, and you punch it a few times, and you get in a slushy, and, you know, you have all these, all that sense data come in, and you start getting that, but you identify as that, because that's the only experience you have, you came with no experience, just with your quality. So now, you have to start with first experience. Now why do you do that? Why do you don't come with any experience, you don't come with any experience, because your whole point here is to grow up, right? make good choices, and you have to make those choices that really are representative of you. And if you had the intellectual part, what you do is gain the system. So oh, I'm here for this reason, this I need to, you know, I need to be kind. So I'm going to be kind all the time is I see something and I'm gonna do kind things. But there's a big difference between acting kind and being kind. Now, if you have that, all that intellectual knowledge, you'd icon because you know, that would be the right thing to do. But that's not being kind. So it has to come out of your heart, it has to come out at the bean level, that you are kind, not just that you're acting that way. So the intellectual part just gets in the way besides that, that intellectual part is overwhelmed with experience, that intellectual part would have, you know, what, 10,000, past wives, you know, 50,000, past children, etc, etc, etc. And you can't deal with all that, you know, that's,

Alex Ferrari 1:33:52
But just so just for a second, I just want to kind of bring it back down to the gamer in me. When you go back into the game, playing it by a new player, the player itself starts off from scratch again, and starts to accumulate experience points, skill sets, things like that. But the player on a on a conscious level or on an unconscious level, has played this game 2 3 4 5 other times with five or six different kinds of players, and brings that experience on a subconscious level to what they're doing now. They still have to go through the journey, but there's certain things certain skill sets that they might have picked up like you know what, I know how to swing the knife, the sword, this way that I know that if I swing the sword this way, it's gonna get me that way. on a subconscious level, even though the sword is different and she doesn't have as much power as the orc did. This princess is swinging the sword in a certain way, because he's bringing that into the game. We're getting deep into the weeds here guys. Because that makes sense.

Tom Campbell 1:34:54
Yeah. And it's not so much gonna be about sources. It's about attitudes. Just using attitudes toward yourself attitudes toward others, those kinds of things is what you bring in. And then you live this life and you do whatever you do and you get, hopefully, you'll decrease your entropy, you'll raise your quality consciousness and your avatar dies, when your avatar dies, that partition between the individuated unit of consciousness, which contains all the lives that you've ever lived, and this freewill awareness unit, which was just the subset without without the intellect, but with the quality. Okay, that petition starts to come down. So you start to reunite now that freewill awareness unit is just a one off. Okay, that's just you. That's Alex. And that's a one off, that character doesn't get replayed, that character is done. So you start to become the individuated unit of consciousness, not the not the freewill awareness unit that was making the choices but the bigger picture now, so you got a bigger picture of what's going on. And that happens. Slowly, not just one big slam, you know, that wouldn't be good. Everything kind of has to happen with a little gradual lead to it. Otherwise, it would be disconcerting for people. So that petition starts to come down and you start to get a bigger picture. Perspective, because now you're the individuated unit of consciousness, this is really what you are. That's, that's the fundamental view. Okay. And in the beginning, okay, let's go right to the detail time, okay, you were alive. Now this second, you're dead, then what happens? Well, you become aware that you are aware of the day car moment, oh, I'm still aware, oh, what's going on? Oh, well go that way, you know, move toward the light or whatever you want to do go through the tunnel, you know, metaphors, right? These are all just metaphors. We make tunnels up not because there's tunnels there's but because we have habits of thinking that you can't get from A to B if you don't move. And the only way we can, the only way we can create a sense of motion is by moving next to a a thing that's not moving. So we create a tunnel for us to move through so that it provides us with a sense of security potion. Yeah, so it's, uh, yeah. So we make up these things. And we move and then we maybe all meet, you know, answers and Uncle Fred, who are part of our family or whatever, and they say, Oh, you everything's fine. The whole process there, I call this the, this is a reality, another virtual reality. And this virtual reality is just for transitions. It's just the transition around, it's all it's for. So you go there. And the whole point of the transition reality is for you to relax, let go and begin to decide what you want to do next. And, and as much as people come excited or upset, or angry, or because they just got shot in the middle of a fight, you know, and they're all wadded up, you know, in as much as they come that way, then the system tries to relax, it's okay, you're fine. See, Uncle Fred, I'll tell you, it's a nice place. And none of that stuff is surreal. It's not really your Uncle Fred. That's just the system playing your Uncle Fred, through the data that's in the database that defines Uncle Fred precisely. Uncle Fred's gone on Uncle Fred was a specific freewill awareness unit that's over. But all his data is still in there. So the system can can emulate Uncle Fred. Exactly. Anyway, so you're in the you anything that it takes to make you feel more at ease. Now, if SR relatives doesn't make you feel better, because you really don't like your relatives, Jesus, then you're not going to see them that might be Jesus or might be married, or it might be your high school math teacher, you know, it could be anybody there that would help you relax, this system is just trying to get you to calm down. And then if you're, if you aren't very excited, and you are already Calm down, and the process is very quick, then you just start thinking about what you're going to do next, you make some plans, and then you find yourself another spot and you go back in for another experience packet. If you are kind of wrapped around the axle, then it may take longer for you to let go. So it kind of depends on where you are, how evolved you are, I guess, when you get theirs, whether you're, you're a little wide eyed and crazy or whether you're okay with the process as to what you go through. So that's just a virtual reality called the transition reality. And as soon as you get to the point that you say, Hey, this is kind of boring. You know? What's next? You know, what can I do next? Now, you don't have to ever do anything, your freewill is always provided. You know, nobody ever tells you you must do this or you have to do that. You always have free will. You can always say no. And you always say yes. So if they say, Well, you ready, you can say no. And I'm gonna hang out I'm gonna hang out a bad time. I'm going to do something else, you know, or I'm going to go to some other virtual reality, I want to go to that one anymore. And you can do those things. And you don't have to ever do anything. But eventually what happens is you get bored in attorneys a long time just to sit around and you know, not have any particular purpose or thing to do. But you can sit out as long as you're like, but then people say, Well, you know, I'm not learning anything, I'm not growing, I'm not becoming I'm not evolving with wasting time. Let's go back in the simulator, and take another shot at making good choices. Okay, now, last time I had this problem, I'm going to try to get past that problem this this next time. So that's the way it works. And then you go back, you now the individuated unit of consciousness, you partition off another piece of yourself called a freewill awareness unit. And that then goes logs on. So that's the, that's the cycle just goes around around so your consciousness, you're immortal, you don't die. Your avatar does die. And when your avatar dies, it's retired. A lot of times people get real upset with that. And they say, No, no, I want to go meet up with my beloved children and my wife and all this and my parents and we're all going to be happy together in the Hereafter. And well, it doesn't really work like that. When mediums call up your dead Uncle Fred. They basically are talking to the database or to the larger conscious system, projecting itself through uncle Fred's. You know, Uncle Fred's data? Yeah. That's what they're really talking about. And those, those connections that you'll get like that from a medium, they're not there, because Uncle Fred needs them. Uncle Fred's done. He's good. There. He's good already. Right there there for the person that's still here that still has closure or other issues or needs to make. That's that's who that's for. It's not for Uncle Fred. Not. Could I go Fred ever learn anything from it? Maybe. But that's the point.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:05
Yeah, from everything that I've seen, and I hadn't mediums on the show as well. It always is about helping the people who are here, right. It's never I've never heard any medium go. You know, Uncle Fred really needs to get this off his chest, because it's, he's, he can't really just he's not chilled over on the other side, needs to make sure that you like that's never a thing. It's always about helping the person that's here. That's the message that's coming through. Thomas, I mean, I could talk to you for hours, and hours and hours. And I'd love to have you back one day because there's 1000. Other questions I want to ask you, but I'm gonna I'm going to ask you two other questions that ask all my guests. What is your mission in this? This reality? This this time that you're here?

Tom Campbell 1:42:52
Okay, the time that I'm here with avatar, Tom? Yes. Well, I came here with a with a mission to understand, you know, the virtual reality, the nature of reality, I kind of came with that. And the reason I say that is because when I arrived, I was very right brained, I was very intuitive. I was, I was the little five year old that would sit in the back of the car when I had a sister who was two years older than me. And we're going on a trip, you know, the the six or seven or eight hour trip that you take with your parents someplace vacation. And you know, how little kids are? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? The kids I know. It starts like 10 minutes after you pull out of your driveway. Are we there yet? Yes, you know, but I wasn't like that, I would sit in the seat and I would kind of relax. And then I'd start chanting, I'd have a little chant that I made up. And I'd start this little chant going. And before you know it, I was gone. And then six hours later, we get there, and I'd wake up and, Oh, were there. Oh, gee, only about 10 15 minutes went by, I was going. So I would do those kinds of things and annoyed my sister to no end because she needed somebody to play with you. You know, that was before Gameboys that was before all the entertainment that now comes in a little box to entertain a kid you know, you had to interact with another child actually, rather than with a, you know, with a an electronic device. So I kind of left her by herself. So I was kind of odd that way as a little kid, very intuitive and very right brained. But I knew that I had a very strong drive to develop my left brain develop logical process. So I struggled with it. And I worked at it and I worked very hard at it. Math was very hard for me, because that's all logical process. But then eventually, you know, by the time I got a got out of college and partway through graduate school, it just clicked you know, and then I got it. Oh, okay. Then math got to be easy. But I struggled with it for a long, long time before it became before it became easy. Anyhow. So I came with the idea that I needed to develop the left side, so that I could understand the bigger picture. And as I go back a couple of past lives, I've been working on this preparation for this thing for two or three other lifetimes. So I'm unusual in the sense, I've kind of more scripted into what I came here to do, which is unusual, most people come just because they need more experience and more opportunities, making choices, and maybe they have some plans, like, Well, I was, I really got angry a lot, you know, I could have this anger management problem and keep flying off the handle. And when I do that, I just, you know, just tear up everything, you know, it ruins my relationships, your owns my employer, you know, my employee employer relationship, it's just, it just doesn't work well, so I got a, I'm gonna get a, an avatar in a situation where I really get that hammered into me this thing about, you know, controlling your, your anger, I need to deal with it. So you can make some plans, you can even make plans to interact with particular other beings while you're there. But these are in the margins, mainly, you just go back, because everybody has free will, and trying to predict what's going to happen and what it's going to be like and who you're going to be next to and who you're gonna end up with, and all the rest of that stuff that is just so hard to predict, because everybody has free will. So those plans can't be too detailed. They can be very rough general plans. But as soon as you get detail, you'll get frustration because those plans will get blown away with free will. Choices!

Alex Ferrari 1:46:53
Like they say is like they say you know, you make the plans and God laughs and it's very true.

Tom Campbell 1:46:59
So anyway, so that's what I'm here for I'm here to do, but pretty much what I'm doing, develop this, I had to go into science, I had a need to go into science, I had a personality that required me to derive everything, from first principles, everything. I could not remember how old I was, unless I started when I knew when I was born, and I'd have to calculate it to the date. But if then, a day later, somebody said, Well, how old are you? I have to start it with me, I'd have to calculate it at a date. And if the next day somebody asked me again, I wouldn't remember I'd have it just was the way my mind work I had everything had to be calculated from first principles, I couldn't remember, which was my left hand and wishes my right hand, what I'd have to do is in my mind, I would have a baseball ball, and I would throw it and I would look and see what can I throw it with. And I knew that would be my right hand. Because I that was a fact that's a fact that I had, you know, that I knew. So somebody said turn right. I have a mental picture of a kid, he's throwing a ball. Oh, that's right. Instead of most people who just know it, this is an intuitive knowing which is the right in which is the left hand after a while, I always had to calculate it even in the know, I don't know, until I was probably 50 years old that it started become more, you know, become natural to me to know which was which, without having to calculate it. But that was good in physics, because I didn't accept anything if I couldn't derive it from the ground up. And that made me very slow. I get into a test. And I'd have to derive the answer from the ground up. And other people just memorized the equation and plug and chug and got the answer much quicker than I did. Because I had to derive all those equations. I had to know exactly where they came from. So I struggled as a slow, slow learner for a while until eventually, it got it got better and better and better. But that's no that's just me and how my mind works and it still works that way. I can't. I don't remember things that other people remember in the sense that that's it's a thing to memorize. I can't memorize anything.

Alex Ferrari 1:49:23
Got it. Got it. Now, where can people find out more about you and your book, my big toe and all your stuff that you do?

Tom Campbell 1:49:30
Okay. They can go to a web page www.my-big-toe.com. They can go to a place and there you'll find lots of things. You'll find my my youtube channel you can get from my website. That is www.youtube.com/twcjr44. That will take you right to the of the YouTube now YouTube channel has several 1000 hours of me talking on it. It also though, and on my website, there's a, a search link that goes through all of the 1000s of hours and picks out by subject, what you're interested in. So if you're interested in the freewill awareness unit, or incarnation or whatever, it's, it's there, just put that in. And it'll give you a whole list from the most important at the top to the less important down below just like Google, and it'll give you a list of where to find it. And if just click on the link, it'll take you right into a middle of some video where it talks about that about. So that makes it a lot easier.

Alex Ferrari 1:50:46
And you can design and things like that.

Tom Campbell 1:50:48
Yeah, books can be found at Amazon and places where books can be found. I have a website, you can get the books at the website, too. Let's see, I have the books out, of course, my big toe. It's a trilogy. And that's basically a theory of consciousness. And it mentions the science a bit physics. And it does mention about the you know how you can derive physics from from consciousness. But most of the science is not in the book. Because I wanted my book to be readable by the average everyday person, I didn't want to put science in there very much. I wanted to keep it simple, logical, but but straight forward,

Alex Ferrari 1:51:29
Elegant, and elegant.

Tom Campbell 1:51:32
Anyway, that's that. And one other thing is that I teach courses, because I tell everybody, if it's not your truth, it's not your, your reality. It's not, you know, you're not your experience. I mean, it's not your truth. So they said, Well, okay, I'd like to experience the larger system, how do I do it? And I'd say, well go off, and you know, Google remote viewing or something, go do it. And that didn't last long. Pretty soon I was backed into a corner, they were right, I needed to give them some instruction. So I started teaching courses and doing paranormal things experiencing paranormal things, how they work, why they work that way, what to do, what not to do techniques, and all of that. And you can find that as a course called an intensive course, which now I took I did it probably 100 times, brick and mortar, you know, eyeball to eyeball. And we took all of that was all videotaped. And we took all of that and did the best of all of them. And now it's an audio program that you can do on your own. It's like a five day program comes with binaural beats, it's you listen to why you do stuff if you're not a good, solid meditator. So it'll teach you how to do everything paranormal. And explain what's going on and why they work that way and what to do and what not to do. And then I have a book that I just probably still asked just before Christmas last year, called Tom's Park, which is a process it's a tool for helping those people that have been working and working on doing things like out of body and remote viewing, and they're just not all that successful at it, they have a little bit of success now. And then the just tease them enough to know that they can do it. But they can't really do it whenever they want to. And it's it's on again and off again. And they get frustrated with it. So I've come up with a new way of approaching it. All the paranormal things that is much easier. I've eliminated that big. That big transition between I'm here in this reality, and now I'm there in that reality. And that transition is a like a wall that people can't get through their intellect gets in the way, all of the paranormal happens on the intuitive side, none of it can happen on the intellectual side, it's all on the intuitive side. And your intellect gets in the way it crashes the intuitive side, the intellect wants to judge and analyze and do all that stuff. And that just judge and it just trashes your intuition. So, so there's there's this Thomas Park, that is a very small book on his 60 pages. It would seem to be a high price for 60 pages. It's like $80. But it's really not a book. It's a it's a program. It's like a course that you would take. But it's iterative, you have to keep going around it and as you go around it many times it builds progressively to where you get better and better. And it gets easier and easier. And pretty soon you can do all the paranormal things with whenever you want to. So

Alex Ferrari 1:54:31
Thomas, it has been an absolute pleasure and honor speaking to you sir. We'll have to have you back to talk more about the the the fabric of reality and where we're all going. So I appreciate you my friend. Thank you for all the insane amount of hard work that you've done. While You Were you hearing this incarnation, sir. So I appreciate you my friend. Thank you again for coming on the show.

Tom Campbell 1:54:52
Thank you, Alex for inviting me.

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