Alex Ferrari 0:00
Simple question, are we going to make it?

Gregg Braden 0:01
We're overdue for a 12,500 year cycle, and it's interesting that it's happening when all of the other things that are happening in the world right now. It's the odds, statistically, are greater that we are living in a simulated, a virtual reality than we are not but they're showing the under the underwater images of these massive pyramids and road complex road systems that are underwater. We will be able to read the writing on those temple walls. Those temple walls are us from another cycle and our ancient past. The more we wake up, the more we create a sense and we begin to become more self sufficient that there's something within us that is so rare and beautiful and sacred and powerful and special that we are worth awakening and preserving.

Alex Ferrari 1:14
Now, before we jump into this episode, if this conversation resonates with you, please like subscribe and share this with whoever you feel that needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep bringing this information out into the world and helps us awaken this planet. Thank you. I'd like to welcome back to the show returning champion, Gregg Braden,

Gregg Braden 1:39
Alex, I am thrilled to be with you. I'm thrilled to be in this physical studio. We always do this on Zoom. Yes, I'm thrilled to be with your audience today. I'm, I'm here in Austin. I haven't been here for almost 30 years, since I've been to Austin. Really, your city has changed a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I'm excited to be on this program. It's, it's the dance, and you're the lead. I'm happy to follow you wherever we go.

Alex Ferrari 2:03
I appreciate you, my friend. I'm so happy to have you back in the studio. And we're going to talk about some fun stuff today, some fun stuff. So, you know, we've talked about ancient civilizations lost history a lot, but the one thing I keep getting asked about is this idea of the cycles of humanity, meaning that there are cycles, the Yuga cycles, obviously, is something that people talk about. But also, like the Younger Dryas, like every 12,000 years, or something like that, we reset. We something happens that's pretty monumental globally, that humanity completely goes, What's your experience on the resetting of civil human civilization multiple times over the last 200,000 years, which goes against everything that we are taught.

Gregg Braden 2:51
Well, I will begin by asking, How deep do you want to go with this?

Alex Ferrari 2:56
The answer is, always, as deep as you like to go, I want to go real deep on it.

Gregg Braden 3:00
I've got a little bit different take, I think, than some of my colleagues, from the sense that I tend to look at things from a higher perspective. I'm a systems thinker. Systems thinkers, typically, they go way out there to see the, you know, the 39,000 foot view, and then they can zero in on individual things that are happening, knowing where they fit into that big picture. Let me just preface this. I think some of our viewers know that my previous life in the corporations, I was a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies, my background, my degree, first degree, was in the earth sciences, but I I merged that with something that was very unique at the time in the 1970s and that was computer science. Computers were just coming into vogue at that time, and I had an affinity for programming. In those days, it was called Fortran the program called Fortran four, and then Fortran 77 originally, so I tend to as a systems thinker, to look at the world, to look at the universe, to look at nature from a systems perspective, and also as a scientist as well as an archeologist. So I think the archeology gives us specifics and moments of time, but the science and thinking from a systems perspective gives us a much broader view. The evidence is overwhelming that we are living in a simulated reality, a virtual reality, which means that somewhere out there, there is another world where we exist, what we maybe call our higher selves, or how we want to think of it, projecting consciousness into this world. But the there were a series. Of experiments that were done back in the year 2001 was the first time this concept was taken seriously. And they're all the ancient traditions tell us, yeah, Maya, we're living the Maya, we're living the illusion, yeah, biblical perspective. The Job says that this world's temporary, that we come from somewhere else. We're learning something here that we're going to need when we get to the next world they know. So the ideas are not new. The first time science really took a hard look at this. Nick Bostrom, in the year 2001 created an algorithm, and he plugged in all the variables of life and civilization and governments and finance and humans and babies and everything into this algorithm. And I think probably even to his surprise, the odds, what he found was the odds, statistically, are greater that we are living in a simulated a virtual reality than that we are not. That has a lot of implications. When I think about your question from that perspective, everything that we could talk about is happening within a simulation. When we think of a simulation today, where's the purpose of a simulation? If you look at a flight simulator for a Boeing triple seven, or, you know, space docking on SpaceX, or whatever it is, in a simulation, typically, we are able to learn something in a relatively safe environment that we're going to need when we're no longer in that level of safety. So suggesting that we're learning something here, and if you look at the definition of a simulation, it's really interesting, because simulations have beginnings and endings. Our world has a beginning, and at some point we'll have an ending in a simulation. If it's a good simulation, you can't tell the simulation from what's called the real world or base reality, but here's where it gets interesting in a simulation, the individual in the simulation can always communicate outside of the simulation for help. They can always say, Hey guys, I've never run into this before. You know, pick up the phone or whatever. We communicate outside our simulation in meditation and prayer or maybe speaking to our higher self. Simulations run in terms of cycles, and this is why I'm saying this in answer to your question, mathematic cycles. There are, you know, the whole idea of fractal geometry is fascinating to me, as a geologist who studied crystallography and Crystal patterns. As complex as our world appears, we are. This whole world is based on about six fundamental patterns that interact with one another that our ancestors knew as the Pythagorean solids. So the tetrahedron, the octahedron, cube, dodecahedron, icosahedron, and different ways of those working together. And when we look at fractal geometry, this is fascinating, because the way a fractal works, it's a very simple equation where you have on the right side or the left side of the equal sign, you have the equation, and it produces something on the right side, and that becomes the input then for the next iteration, and it goes on and on and on. It appears our world works this way. We're we're made of a very few patterns of geometry that are playing out in greater and greater cycles. Time appears to be fractal. I wrote a book called fractal time in the year 2012 This is one of the first times that these two concepts, the concept of time, very nebulous. Fractals, very nebulous. The idea of fractal time was a relatively new concept back in 2012 from these perspectives, putting all this together, when we look at cycles, what we're looking at are cycles of human experience within a simulated reality, assimilated experience, and it suggests that what we see as ancient civilization is just scratching the surface. That we have been here for so long and we've gone through so many iterations, that geologic processes are actually hiding the archeological remnants, because they are so ancient. In other words, crustal tectonics, the plates have slipped over and are hiding some of those civilizations. Or they're under the oceans of risen they're under, under the water. And we find these actually, just this week, just this week, there was an article that came out. This is where, February of 25 there's an article that came out of a lost civilization found in what used to be the Gulf of Mexico, and now, I guess is Gulf of America. I don't care. Sure, it depends on, yeah, wherever, wherever it is. But they're showing the under the underwater images of these. Massive pyramids and road complex road systems that are underwater, and that water the ocean has not been below the levels to create that for periods of time that go back before history was even supposed to be happening. So now the question is, who built them and why are they there? The same thing in Antarctica. You know, Antarctica is right now it's covered well. Global warming is a fact, and it has begun to melt the ice in Antarctica, satellites now can see traces of archeology, and these aren't little primitive fishing huts. I mean, these are complex, multiple, complex structures, expanding, extending over vast periods of space under the Arctic ice. Well, the Arctic ice has been there for over 20,000 years. So one of two things happened, either they they built into the ice to create these or these structures existed before the ice formed. And the question is, who was building complex structures like this 20,000 20,000 years ago? We weren't supposed to be doing things like that. So we're told that civilization began only about 5000 years ago, right? Is what's taught in in

Alex Ferrari 3:00
Is it still, I mean, there's like, literally, Gobekli Tepe stops that.

Gregg Braden 3:00
Yeah. So what's happening is what we're taught. And when I was in school, you're in school, and they're still teaching our kids. Civilization began with what is called the Tigers. Tigers, Euphrates Valley, sure, ancient Mesopotamia is the geographic area there was Babylon Sumeria Acadia. These are cultures within Sumeria about 5000 years ago and and everything that we're taught about history is from that point forward. Now, when you look at the the I do this in my book fractal time, when you look at at the archeological discoveries, what you find is that, prior to that, we're now finding other civilizations that go back between seven and 10,000 years, and there's a whole cluster of those. So you've got a cluster between current and 5000 and another cluster between five and 10,000 now we've got Gobekli, Tepe, 13,000 BP before present, and other sites around that. So now you're looking at another 5000 year cycle, and now we're looking at Antarctica that goes back even another 5000 year cycle. So we're teaching our kids in school. It's not the history of the world forever. It's the history of our most recent 5000 year cycle. 5000 year cycles appear to be driven by cosmologic forces, and the Mayans identified this and their calendar. They if you look at the Mayan calendar, there are four boxes on the the innermost circle of the Mayan calendar, each of those represents a 5000 year cycle in the past. So there's 1234, 5000 year cycles. And then the image in the center represents the fifth, 5000 year cycle that we're in now. So that's about a 25,000 year long cycle, or the precession of the equinoxes. So those 5000 geologic cosmologic processes are driving geologic processes that trigger those 5000 year cycles. And the Mayans identified that. So when we're looking at each of those, it suggests that they go back even further than the 25,000 years that we're looking at right now. But we're not seeing them because they're so ancient. Geologic processes, volcanoes, mudslides, rising oceans, tectonic plates, things like that, have actually covered some of those sites in and so now they're drilling down into the earth, and they're finding, they're estimating where the site should be, and now they're finding those sites proving that that we've been here for much longer than than we've been led to believe, and the mainstream has yet to search up. So to answer your question, what happens is, when they find Gobekli Tepe, so one of the first ones they found was corral in northern Peru. I just led my 47th trip in 45 years into Peru. Wow, and we went to corral. We happened to go to corral. I was actually at the archeological site in 2010 when the lab sent the dating back, showing that it was 7000 years before present. So this is the oldest archeological site in all the Americas, older than the Aztec, than the old Mac, than the Inca and the Toltec. All of those is is. Corral and and so that was called an anomaly, all right. And when they found Gobekli Tepe, now looking at 13,000 and probably older BP, they're calling the they call all of these anomalous but what's happening is there's so many anomalies Alex, that the anomalies are telling a new story. Now, as a geologist, geologists have no problem with this story. For example, Robert shock, sure when he was looking at the Sphinx, the Sphinx, the erosion on the Sphinx, I was friends with John Anthony West before he died, and he was working with Robert shock, what I would have my groups in Egypt when John West would have his and I'd speak to his groups, and he would speak to mine at the hotel, and it was, it was a lot of fun to do that. And Robert Shock was the first geologist as a sedimentary geologist. It said the erosion on the Sphinx is not Aeolian. Aeolian is wind erosion. He said this is fluvial erosion, which means water. So it's the result of fast moving water over long periods of time. The only time that hasn't happened in recent history, the only time that happened was over 10,000 years ago, the melting of the last ice age. And he published this in double APG, American Association of petroleum geologists. Geologists said, Hey, what's the big deal? The evidence is there no no problem at all. The historians have a huge problem, because this messes up all of the accepted chronology of history. So the geology is an agreement because the evidence, but the stories that go with the historic evidence and the way that history has been the sequence of history that now has pretty much been destroyed. And to throw even another wrench into this, we sent probes to the moon, and we sent probes to Mars looking for for bacterial life. So for example, on the moon, they had a little lander that that landed, and it's like a little spider looking device. And then from the top, there's a little tube that pops up and that shoots out what looks like sticky dental floss, and then they reel that dental floss through the dust, looking for bacteria, and bring it into a broth to cultivate the bacteria, not knowing that they're looking for signs of life as bacteria next to the walls of temples that are on the lunar surface that are documented and photographed all the way back to the clementine missions of for the moon, dating to 50,000 years before present. So the question is, Who was there 50,000 years ago doing these? And this is a long answer to your short question. It used to be that the United States, the former United States, because we're not the same country anymore, and the former Soviet Union now Russia, were the only countries that could get there, that had the money and the technology to get there. Well, both those countries are broke, and it's not a priority to go back to the moon. Both those countries signed agreements during the Cold War that they would not disclose what they found on the lunar surface, and they've honored those agreements. Now the countries that have the money and the technology, China is one, never signed that agreement. India just coming up there as well. China and India are the two countries. India has Shiva. One is the name of this spacecraft. I think it's

Alex Ferrari 8:58
Almost as good as enterprise, but not bad.

Gregg Braden 8:58
I think it's great. It's great. So here's the thing. Now, this is all there's a big context here. China never agreed to that, and China has said publicly, when they land on the surface of the moon when they're astronauts. I don't know what they'll call them when they land, that they will televise live to the people of the earth everything that they find. And I believe that they will, they will find the archeological remnants of massive temple sites, if you want to call them temples, 50,000 years before present, and they'll find the writing on those temple walls. My sense for we could have a whole conversation about where this comes from. The research that I've done suggests that we will be able to read the writing on those temple walls, the average person will be able to read, because it won't be et writing from some other world. Those temple walls are us from another cycle and our ancient past, where we cooperated, worked together, did great and beautiful things before. We allowed war to destroy what we had created. And so now look, look at where we are. We're on the precipice of war right now, superpowers of the world. If we land a probe on the lunar surface and we beam back languages of ancient Arabic and Hebrew and cuneiform and Sanskrit, it has the potential. I'm not saying it would, but it could be one of the most unifying experiences, because it would say that we humans are more than we've been led to believe. We're not. We've been told more than we've been led to believe, and at some point in our ancient past, we worked together and created these great and beautiful things. Then how much further could we go if we work together now? And what a beautiful thing at a time when we believe our differences are so great that we must hurt and destroy one another to solve our problems,

Gregg Braden 20:52
Is, are these in the Dark Side of the Moon where people don't see them?

Gregg Braden 8:58
No, no, so Well, some of them are and some they're in craters. They're in in the craters, and sometimes in the shadows of the craters, where it's hard to see them. In 19, I think it was the year 2000 freedom of information was used to declassify because public funding paid for the NASA. Of course, it's all public domain. Yeah, the NASA, well, it should be, yeah, yes and no. So when they when they built, did you ever see the movie? Contact? Of course, there's a great line in contact. So in, and I don't want to spoil this for anyone that hasn't seen, oh, no, no. You spoil whatever you want. It's been 25 years well, but a lot of people have my audiences like you haven't seen. So, so there's a signal. It comes from space. I still hear people of the earth. I hear it in my head right now, how to build a device that will transport them into another world. They build one, and it's destroyed, and everybody thinks that's it. And the philanthropist, very famously says, Why build one when you can build two for twice the price? That's exactly what we did when we built the Cape in Florida public money. There was a cost overrun, very expensive. Why was that? Because we built a second launch facility that is not public at Vandenberg Air Force Base on the California coast. And I saw it when I was out there. Interesting as a software engineer, installing software. I was out there 86 and 87 one, and I had security clearance. I had a pass on the base one day, I got finished early, and I had a car, and it's a it's a huge it's 66 miles along the coast, beautiful rolling hills and flowers and trees. And there's the Pacific Ocean. It's beautiful. And then every, every once in a while, you come up on a facility. So I asked the the MP that was there, I said, can I go for a drive? Can I explore? And he said, Sure. And I said, was there any place I'm not supposed to go? And he says, Don't worry, if you go there, they'll let you know. So I'm driving along, and this beautiful afternoon, yeah, and I come up to a hilltop, and I stopped to and we didn't have phones back then, you know, I had little it was a disposable Instamatic camera I picked up at the drugstore, a 35 millimeter, and I had it with me. And I'm here. I am on the Hill. I'm looking over Pacific, and I happen to look down. It looks like Cape Canaveral right below me. And I thought, well, you know what in the world is this? And about that time, there were two Jeeps that came up this, this dirt road pretty fast, and they were MP, military police. And they said, Sir, we're gonna have to ask you to leave, and we need to take your camera. And I said, Okay, fine, but can you tell me what I'm looking at? And he said, Well, that's Slick Six. And I said, Well, what is Slick Six? He said, when they built the civilian launch facility in Florida at the Cape for the public, the military built a second facility here, and these launches are unannounced. They don't have to announce them to the public, so the space programs can continue from the military side, even though they they in from the public

Alex Ferrari 21:42
So that's not NASA. That would be a different perspective.

Gregg Braden 11:40
It would be the Air Force. Well, this is controversial. We already had what was called the Space Force. When I would go on to the base, it would say, United States Space Force. Trump didn't start the Space Force. We've had it since the 80s. He's enhanced it and he gave it a logo. But we had the Space Force, and we were working on projects like SDI, Star Wars, defense, yeah, we also say that something, yeah, that was a project I worked on the 80s. Well, I was installing software for that. And when they would launch and deploy those, they would launch them to test them, and once they were deployed to test they didn't bring them home. They left them there. So so there was, there was a whole story behind that. Why build one when you could build two for for twice the price? So, so when all of that was declassified, what happened? They did release the images, but and Alex, I can send you a. Pictures of this. I didn't know we're going to have this conversation. So it shows the lunar surface, and they have pixelated out all the things they don't want us to see, which makes it even worse, because here's a tower coming a mile off the lunar surface, and they pixelate out the tower. So now it's even more obvious that there's, you know, some and and elongated structures and things, what could possibly be on the lunar surface that we should not be looking at from a lunar mission from the 19, 1960s 70s and 80s, and those are out there. So, so all to say, when, when China goes, I think there's a potential. Is it landing on I don't know their exact they keep setting it back. And I don't know why they keep setting it back before the decade probably is over. I think it'll be within next year or two, okay, and you can't make this stuff up. I mean, right at the time when political tensions and war is at the greatest, the greatest expressions of war that we've seen since World War Two, and actually talks of nuclear exchange. You know, we haven't heard that talk since, since the 80s. Yeah, of course. What would it mean to see remnants of something that we as a global family, as an earth family, accomplished so long ago that we've forgotten and and all of this is within the cycles of time that we're talking about. So you ask the question about cycles, it makes perfect sense that civilization, everything, is driven in cycles. In a simulation, in a computer simulation, time is cyclic and civilization is cyclic. So the geologic processes are cyclic. The geologic processes that drive the rise and fall of civilizations and the climate processes that drive the rise and fall of

Alex Ferrari 26:48
Well, life itself is a cycle.

Gregg Braden 26:50
Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 26:51
It's that's a thing that a lot of people think, like, you could just go up, up, up, up, up and just kind of like, build on what you did before. But it does. It's like the stock market, like, there are cycles in the stock you can't have a positive day every single day.

Gregg Braden 27:04
Well, the stock market is a reflection of mass investor psychology. The stock market is actually a psychological graph, yeah, of the optimism or the pessimism, yes, of those and the trust and the fear, yep, of those people who are doing the investment. It all runs on cycles. This is, this is, I released a book recently called pure human, the hidden truth of our divinity, power and destiny. And there's a portion of that book where I'm describing how we are more than random mutations. There's an intentionality underlying our existence, not just for us, but but for our world. There. There was a time. There's something called the standard model in science that academia is fighting tooth and nail to preserve right now. The standard model says that the universe is is a result of the Big Bang. And I did a little research. They were male physicists that called it the Big Bang. Of course it is because it was a female physicist. It'd be like the first breath of the new beginning of the new dawn. And much more poetic, yeah, but no, we got we got men, and there's the big bang, you know, bang. So, so the big bang, and they're hanging on to this theory of the Big Bang, and that the universe is dead and inert, and that life is the product of random mutations, the new discoveries beyond what I can even go into, right? I talk about that in the book, show that the universe is alive, that it is more than live. It's conscious. And one of the reasons they're seeing this is the James Webb telescope, for example, is now documented in entire galaxy. So if you can think of the Milky Way Galaxy, it looks like, kind of like a disc on it's like a saucer on its side. And they began seeing these galaxies that would create these jets of plasma from the center of the galaxy shooting up one side or down the other, that would literally displace the galaxy. It would drive it in a certain direction to avoid being hit by radiation, volleys of radiation, or things that would actually hurt or destroy the galaxy. And once they found that, they started looking and it happens again and again. These are conscious acts. This is the way an organism moves out of the way when something dangerous is incoming. So the universe is alive. It appears to be conscious. It appears to be intelligent. Human life is not random, we know. And as a geologist, I'll be clear on this. I believe in evolution. I have seen it in the fossil record and doing my field work, plants, animals, insects, hands down, I support evolution as a theory. It breaks down when it comes to humans. 200,000 years ago, something happened that triggered a series of mutations, not. Slowly, gradually, over a long period of time. They happen quickly, and they happen in ways that our own science. Proceeding of National Academy of Sciences released a paper on human chromosome number two, and the conclude, very technical paper. Conclusion was it cannot happen under natural conditions. It's not something that and it's never happened before? Chromosome two is the fusion of two pre existing chromosomes, Chroma I think most of our viewers know by now, chromosome has telomeres on the chromosome, and that's where they should be, because they protect the DNA. When the cell divides and the chromosome divides, two chromosomes merge. They were fused together artificially, and now the telomeres are on the ends, but they're also in the middle of what used to be the ends of the chromosomes, before they were they were fused together. That doesn't happen in nature. So we know that we're the product of processes that are not random. There appears to be an intentionality, and this is where science is, is having a hard time, because if there's an intentionality that implies a purpose, and science right now isn't really equipped to deal with a purposeful form of life, and this is where we have to cross those traditional boundaries that separate the sciences if we're going to get anywhere with The human story.

Alex Ferrari 31:20
But also, but also, it was like during that time, there were many of our cousins out there, Neanderthal and so on. We aren't, arguably the best we are. I've said this before. We're not particularly well suited for this environment. As you know, if we take all of our technology off, we don't have hair, really, right? You know, we we burn if we're out in the sun, we're going to burn. If it's too cold, we're going to die. If we don't have something augmenting our bodies, we will, we will make it in our natural environment here on the planet. So we're not particularly well suited for this other than our brain.

Gregg Braden 31:58
Well, the archeological stories all say not one. Now I have not been with every indigenous culture in the world, every indigenous culture in the world. I have been with from the Tibetans and through India and Nepal and the shamans in the Yucatan and the shamans in the Andes Mountains, and all through the American desert, Southwest and the Bedouin in Africa and all this, not one of them has a story that says we're the product of slow, gradual, random processes. Every single one Alex says that we are part of a much larger family, a cosmic family, that we're lost. We've forgotten who we are and and that's not science. But when you combine that with what the scientific evidence shows that we are not the product of random mutations and natural processes, then you begin looking at Sumerian texts that say we are the product of an intentional act by a higher a higher intelligence, and all of this fits into the original question. We're looking at civilizations, and we're looking at at processes that are unfolding following mathematic rhythms and mathematic cycles again and again, and against cosmological cycles that follow the math patterns that drive geologic processes that follow the math patterns, the geology drives civilization, civilizational patterns. 12,500 years ago was the Younger Dryas. 12,000 13,000 years before that was another Younger Dryas cycle, 12,000 years before that was another Younger Dryas cycle. They don't call them that, but that's what they were. These are processes where cosmologic Actually cosmic rays, volleys of cosmic rays coming from the center of our Milky Way, are impacting the Earth's inner and outer core in a way that causes what are called perturbations, little ripples in the molten magma, and those ripples push against the relatively thin crust in the weak places that We call faults. So what you see is increased volcanic activity, increased earthquake activity, and that's exactly what we saw 12,500 years ago. Interestingly, we're seeing it again right now. And you look at the triple plate junctures in the Middle East, for example, Turkey and up in that area, the strongest earthquake 7.8 7.9 and we're seeing them again and again. We're seeing volcanic activity in Italy, which is where one of the last three there have been three volcanic periods that all originated in Italy that forever changed the course of a Pompeii. I've been to Pompeii of history. Yeah, it's. I'm saying so these aren't one offs, but we're taught to look at such a relatively small period of time, you got to step back and look at the big picture, and then you can see where we fit into that picture. These are all driven by cycles, so civilizational cycles that you're talking about. I'm not saying that you can necessarily predict with precision, but you can predict patterns and consequences of the events, and we happen to be right now. We're overdue for for a 12,500 year cycle, and it's interesting that it's happening when all of the other things that are happening in the world right now.

Alex Ferrari 35:40
But let me ask you something correct. This is something I find I've been I contemplate a lot, as you can imagine, doing this show, and thinking about conversations I have. And it seems to me that the world is not only changing at a rapid pace, but the old systems are starting to be broken down. I use the Vatican as an example. When you and I were growing up, it was unfallible. It's just like there's no, nothing that can and obviously we've seen that that's different. Same thing for the medical field. Same thing for the you know, for religion,

Gregg Braden 36:13
US government was infallible.

Alex Ferrari 36:15
US government, the economy, all of it money, just its concept of money, but it seems to, and I keep seeing this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, there seems to be agents of I'm not going to call it agents of chaos. And this is not one person. It's different things, but it's the bull in the china shop phenomenon, where it's countries, whether it's politicians, whether it's CEOs, whether it's, you know, religious institutions there start, there's there's, oh, it seems to me that there's multiple bulls in China shops that are going to come in and just tear up the place. But we kind of need the China to be broken so we can build it back up. Does that make sense? Because there seems to be every everywhere, like China. Perfect example is the China story you were just saying with the moon. Like, we're going to put this out there. You know, I know Trump just got put into office as of this recording. And, like, yeah, you want to know how JFK happened. I'm going to release those papers, yeah? Like, that is China in a bull in a china shop. Kind of, what do you think those papers are going to show? I don't, I don't I don't know. He's definitely not a single man, single shooter.

Gregg Braden 36:15
You know what? You know what they're going to show? What are they going to see? Well, this is going to be interesting. What have you seen? Well, I and then I'll answer the other question. I've researched this a little bit. First of all, the papers that are being released are not original papers, okay? Because the originals have been destroyed, fair enough. All right, these are our copies of those originals, and they have been redacted in many places. I think we're going to see hundreds and 1000s, possibly 1000s. I think there's 35 was it 3500 pages of the report, or something like that? We'll get the report, and we're going to see a whole lot of red. See a whole lot of redaction. I think you're going to see black line after black line after black line, and the originals that they say no longer exists. They've been destroyed. Not much is going to be sound shown. I I'm not saying nothing, and I hope that I'm surprised. I hope that I'm surprised, because the evidence doesn't support the story that was reported by the Warren Commission. I remember this when I was a kid. I remember waiting tooth and nail of the Warren Commission sure to come out with a story that was very dis like this, thick and there was nothing in it. I was very disappointed by what came out the bull in the china closet. This conversation is part of other conversations that you and I have had. There is a fundamental struggle that defines all of human history, all of the simulation, sure, and now there's a struggle between light and dark, good and evil, and what you're talking about are expressions of good and evil, as they play out on large scale, in terms of of governments, in terms of nations, in terms in terms of organizations, in terms of economies, and all of those things they Have to collapse that what those systems are collapsing under the burden of their own and the weight of their own lies, the lies cannot be perpetuated. So they they they're collapsing under the weight of of of the information that has been held for so long, what we don't know, and we're entering into a really tenuous time, because what does it mean to an entire society or an entire nation, if you no longer trust anything about your nation, any longer you don't trust the medical system, which the pandemic took that nail in that coffin pretty. Much for everyone you you don't trust the economic system. We're with $35 trillion and we're 125% over debt to GDP. We're broke. We're more than broke. If that was you and me, we'd we'd be in bankruptcy right now, right? We don't trust the economy. We don't trust politicians. Don't trust our law enforcement anymore because we've seen law abused at the highest levels and turned against people for political purposes. Now the church is being gutted from the inside out, and a lot of people don't trust religion anymore, if you don't trust religion and your country and your healthcare professionals anymore. What is there left to trust? And people need to trust something, and it makes them both powerful and vulnerable. It's powerful in the sense that they're waking up to, they're waking up from the illusion. They're vulnerable in the sense that people need something to believe in. They need something to trust. And here's the vulnerability. Powers that be are more than happy to give us new systems and a new religion. And this is precisely what the World Economic Forum is driving toward. The UN is driving toward they're trying to collapse borders to make us borderless nations with common finances, common economic systems. Well, the euro was kind of the first step. The Euro was an attempt at doing that. Now there, there's an African Union, there's a European Union, and now there's a very distinct movement for an American Union. And I would not be surprised to see a common currency between Mexico, Canada and the US, and see that within very, very short term, that would be the Amero. That's what it would be. Yeah, and we would still have our nations, but we're driving more toward toward toward that the dissolution of the nationalism and the dissolution of the national identity, is that a good thing or a bad thing? It's all in how it's done. If it's done from a place of kindness, love, love and benevolence and genuine care for our brothers and sisters, it could be a beautiful thing if it's done for economic gain, for power and control, it could be a nightmare, and we get to determine how that happens. We're going to have ideas, and we'll be coerced into accepting those ideas, and we'll have ideas imposed upon us unless we say something and this all comes back to have a new book pure human. Part of this is the replacement of human biology with technology to help facilitate all of the things that we're talking about.

Alex Ferrari 42:39
What I find fascinating is going back to the euro. I mean, Europe has obviously a very long history, and each country has a very strong identity. Yeah, in Europe, but they were, many of those countries were convinced by the powers that be that they should abandon their own money in their own monetary systems to join a union money. I found that pretty fast, because that's you're basically taking a part of their country out.

Gregg Braden 43:22
This happened in the 90s, and I remember, I watched it very closely, because the ideas were in the Cold War years in the 80s. And I was very I was, I was a senior computer systems designer for a company at that time called Martin Marietta. Today it's Lockheed Martin in the Cold War years, and I was, although I was working the tech side, I was fascinated and very clued in to what was happening geopolitically, because that was driving our business. And it was, it was during that time the euro was introduced as a way to prevent war. They said, if these countries have a common economy, they're not going to invade one another. And it actually worked. Makes no sense for that period of time. What happened was the system was abused, and the inequities between Germany and Greece, for example, two very different economies, very trying to use the same the same currency didn't work, or or England, and that's why, that's why England pulled out.

Alex Ferrari 44:29
Never joined, yeah, they but even though they were part of it, they always kept the pound.

Gregg Braden 44:32
And they kept the pound. Yep, British, British Pound. Yeah. So there again. It's not that the ideas are good, bad, right or wrong, it's the thinking underlying them. And I think what we're seeing when we talk about a simulated reality and we talk about civilizations within that simulated reality, what we're talking about are the same principles. Playing out in different magnitudes. So the principles that played out, you know, in in Scandinavian countries, in the 1500s the same principles are playing out now on a global basis. So we're seeing it's the same principle playing out different levels of this is what a fractal is. So we're seeing fractal patterns. So if our viewers aren't familiar with the fractal, if you think of the old idea of an atom, for example, it used to be a mechanical model with a nucleus in the middle and electrons moving around, looks a whole lot like a solar system with the sun in the middle and planets. Looks a whole lot like the Milky Way, with a black hole in the middle, and solar systems moving around same pattern, different scale. So we say that the atom is a fractal pattern of a solar system. All right, so from that perspective, the rise and fall of civilizations are fractal patterns that we've seen play out throughout history, the rise and fall. The US Dollar is a fiat currency, which means there's nothing backing that currency. 1971 Nixon pulled this off the gold standard. So we have what's called a fiat currency. Be the lifetime, the fractal lifetime, of a fiat currency throughout history is about 100 years. Well, ours, ours, started in 1913 so we're overdue. We should have just let that currency collapse and started with something different, but we tried to prop it up. You mean, like in oh eight, in oh eight, rather than letting the system reset, which is what it was trying to do under the burden of its abuse, the fractal abuse that had been happening, we didn't allow it to reset, and we've we've tried to fix it, not you and me, but the powers that be. We tried to fix it by buying the debt, which set us into a spiral that we now have $35 trillion in debt every what that means is every new dollar that is put into circulation dilutes the value of what's already there. So when you look at a chart between 1913 and right now, over 98% of the value has been lost. That's why eggs are four to $5 a dozen or gold right now is 29 20 2920 35 something like that. But it was. It almost broke 3000 it did. So here's here's the thing. And this is a very different way of thinking about it, the price of gold never really changed. What happened is the dollar is so weak, it takes more of those weak dollars to buy that ounce of gold. Or the price of gas never really gas is gas, but the dollar is so weak it takes more of those dollars to buy. That's what inflation is all about. This is why our economies are in trouble right now. But these are all fractal patterns. And when you understand that the whole concept of fractal time, the book fractal time, is that when an event happens, whether it's an emotional event in our personal lives, a love, a loss, a breakup, a death, a marriage, a divorce, you know, whatever it is, good things and bad things, those events set into motion a pattern of energy that will repeat on a predictable basis. Now not the exact event, but the pattern will repeat on a predictable basis. And actually built a calculator, and it's available on our website. People go to the book they can check it out of when you can reasonably expect those patterns to show up again in your life or in your nation or on your planet doesn't make any difference, because in a simulated reality, we're working on a few patterns that were set into motion a long time ago that continue to play out, but every time they express, the expression gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and now we're reaching, appear to be reaching some kind of a limit, Alex, where we will have to see some kind of a reset. Doesn't mean doesn't mean the world ends, doesn't mean that we end, but the way that we're used to doing things has to change, because what we're doing now is unsustainable. So the bull in the china closet you're talking about is the breakdown. It's interesting. If you look another way of thinking of this, you're familiar with cymatic pattern. Cymatics, for any viewers that aren't Cymatics, is the science I actually worked with. The gentleman that brought this over, Hans Jenny, developed this principle in the 90s. And the gentleman that brought it to the US was a good friend of mine, and we used to talk about this lot in our programs where where sound is pumped into a substance. We could be a liquid, it can be dust, it can be salt, sugar, graphite, sulfur, flour, whatever it is. And every sound creates a unique pattern specific to that sound. You change the sound and the pattern changes again. But here's here's the key. When you are in frequencies, the higher the frequency, the more complex the pattern. All right, we have a frequency of our consciousness and our existence, and as we are increasing that frequency. We're changing patterns in Cymatics. What happens is, every time it goes from one pattern to the next, when one pattern of complexity gives way to a higher level of complexity, a more beautiful pattern, it has to break down to get there, the whole thing has to fall apart to get there. That's the way nature works. Our world is a complex pattern, and our consciousness is part of that pattern. And as we are giving way to a higher a higher level of order, the systems that are unsustainable have to break down. So in a way, we can celebrate the breakdown if we know it doesn't mean that everything is bad and broken. It means that we are in an evolutionary process, and the way nature works is for us to give way to a higher level of order the systems that we have right now that are unsustainable can't, can't last

Alex Ferrari 51:44
So with so many people who are terrified of all this change that are listening right now, where do you see with everything that you've seen, everything you've talked about, all your studies, where do you see us in 10 years? What do you see us into this?

Gregg Braden 52:00
That's a good question. And the beauty is, the better we know ourselves, the less we fear change in the world. Correct the fear that the terrified people you're you're referring to, and a lot of my friends are as well, is because we have hinged our sense of well being on the world around us, right? And when that world is good. You know, when the stock market's good and the kids are good in school and everything's fine, and there's peace between nations, we're good. You come home from work and you got a bad day at the stock market, and all of your savings of 401, k are collapsing. You know, it's a tough day. We've given our power away and hinged our sense of well being on the world around us, the better we know ourselves. And this is where deep, spiritual, not religious, but spiritual awakening, leads us. We begin to understand that we're okay no matter what's happening out there. And the more we wake up, the more we create a sense and we begin to become more self sufficient, rather than relying on external systems for our sense of well being. And you're seeing that happen with a lot whether it's growing your own food or having a few chickens to make your own eggs, or, you know, having a little backup power system in the house, just the things that are important to us, we take responsibility for, rather than giving our power away to another force to take care of us.

Alex Ferrari 53:29
It's kind of like using the example of like, when I was a younger man, I identified so whole, whole wholeheartedly with my career, like I was the filmmaker I was that my that's my identity. When that didn't go well, my life was destroyed. I was a bad place. If, if you give you power to to a relationship, when the relationship is not going well, you you fall apart. But if you're strong within yourself, you can weather all of that kind of stuff. And that's what we're talking about. That's what I do here with the show, awakening yourself

Gregg Braden 54:03
In the spiritual perspective. It's called the dark night of the soul. Dark, dark night of the soul. I talk about this and other books and other programs beyond the scope, probably what we can do well in here tonight. But a dark night of the soul is when I what I call the bulldozer of change comes through your life and levels everything, and then it backs up and it comes through just to make sure there's nothing left standing and you're left with nothing except yourself. And for many people, there are different levels of dark nights of the soul. But you know, for for me, it happened. I had people in my life took all my money, took all my my trust, you know, relationships, everything, and that happened in about a 30 day period of time. I was lucky. It happened pretty quick, my first one, and one of the things that taught me, i. Was that, yeah, those things are uncomfortable when they happen, but I was really okay, and actually, my life got much better. After all that, you wouldn't be here today. If your film career had been a booming success, you'd probably be out there still making films.

Alex Ferrari 55:14
Well, not in today's market, because Hollywood has changed dramatically. But yeah, no, absolutely, if I would have gotten a job as a TV director, if I'd have gotten job doing big movies or something like that, this would have never even crossed my mind. I wouldn't be sitting at this time. You would not. So we would have never met, you know, unless you watch one of my movies or something, but it wouldn't have it wouldn't have worked. So it's, it's fairly fascinating, but you said something that's interesting, the dark night of the soul. I feel like humanity is going through a dark.

Gregg Braden 55:42
Exactly. These are fractal patterns. The fractal pattern, it works from the smallest level to it's the same pattern on a different scale, different magnitude, whether it's an individual going through a dark night of the soul or a society going through a dark night of the soul, which America is doing, as it is awakening to all the things that are no longer true, or the world going through a dark night of the soul. On a spiritual level, that you could say that very accurately, it's exactly what's happening. Your original question was about civilizations, if we are in a simulated reality, which the evidence suggests is true. Math is proof. The scientific studies are telling us, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this is they're telling us. There's not even much of us here. You know, we're pretty much empty space. And Adam is 99.99 you go out 10 decimal places, 99 99% empty space. There's not much of us here. The real us is projecting. We are the avatars. The real us is projecting it, and now we are mimicking that, building our own virtual realities, and projecting this very little there is of us into another, another reality. So from the perspective of a simulation, what we're seeing are fractal patterns, civilizations rise and fall, geologic processes ebb and flow, and humankind and civilization ebbs and flows, always moving a little higher, toward a greater understanding. And this, I think, is the purpose of all of the spiritual traditions and all of the relationships, and all of the mediumship and all of the channeling, it's all about us. And people don't like to think that, but there's something within us that is so rare and beautiful and sacred and powerful and special that we are worth awakening and preserving. And I think that's really what we're coming to terms with now.

Alex Ferrari 57:37
But we've been lied to Gregg.

Gregg Braden 57:39
We have because we gave our power away to forces outside of us correct and allowed them to lie to us rather than relying upon our own divinity. Divinity includes intuition, our own access to truth. We're all over the place with this, there was a scientific journal. It's called the Journal of complementary and alternative medicine that was released. I didn't know we're going to do this, so I'm going to do this from memory. But the conclusion is that the Journal says there's compelling evidence to suggest that the human heart is coupled to a field of energy and information that is not limited by the laws of time and space. What that says is, there's a part of us, our hearts, that is linked to energy, which is information that's not bound by the laws of physics. Time doesn't mean the same thing space. This is why a mother, true story, a mother in Brisbane, Australia can have a son in on a battlefield in Afghanistan who's in trouble, and she calls his commanding officer to see if he's okay, and the commanding officer doesn't even know that the trouble has happened, yet the mother's intuition is telling her that her son is in trouble halfway Around the world before his own commanding officer even knows that. How is that possible? Well, we know it's possible because there's a field of information, and I'll just do I have time kind of one step further. Sure, sure, this is fascinating. There was a new study I talked about this in the new book. New Studies have now shown that for every woman, ladies, you'll be fascinated by this for every woman that's ever conceived a life in her womb, whether she brings that life full term or not, that the not only does her blood circulate through the life of the fetus, but the fetus blood circulates through her and the fetus DNA actually lodges in very specific organs in the mother's body, particularly in the liver, is where they found this and will be alive in the liver of the mother, and as long as the mother is alive. Yes. Now what the engineering journals are showing is that DNA, and this is their language, DNA is literally a fractal antenna. What does that mean? So an antenna tunes a signal. We all know that fractal antenna means that the DNA is tuned to multiple signals across a vast bandwidth, which means we're taking in lots of information. So So what does this mean? It means that the mother is literally energetically connected to her son or daughter through a signal of DNA that's in her body and in their body, and this is how the intuition, this is how a mother knows when her children are in trouble, interesting. And this is also why it hurts so much when a parent loses a child. I just lost my mom to COVID, and it kicked my ass, and I couldn't, I didn't, because it made no sense. Why would it hurt so much? It hurts, because when the parent dies, or when the child dies, there literally, this isn't a metaphor. There is a severance of an energetic connection that we have had all of our lives, and the loss of that. It physically hurts to have that energy cut off. It physically hurts. And people say this. They actually say, you know, it feels like somebody kicked me in the gut. You know, hear people say that, or, you know, they say they lost, you know, a part of themselves. That's the exact words you hear a mother say, I feel like I lost a part of myself or something. And, and they did. It's just a part of themselves that's not in their body. It's their DNA that's in their child, or the mother's the mother's DNA that's still with us, or the father's DNA. Isn't that interesting. It's fascinating. So so this is there's so much more to us. We're only beginning to understand the complexity of how we work, but this is the dark night of the soul is as we It includes the loss of loved ones, and as we go through a dark night of the soul, it doesn't change what happens, it changes the way we feel about what happens, and we begin to have a deeper sense of trust and respect for the gift of our bodies and who we are, who we are and and a deeper sense of accomplishment that that we're okay no matter what happens out there, that we're okay because we have learned not to hinge our sense of well being To the exterior, to the world, outside of us.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:42
A simple question, are we going to make it?

Gregg Braden 1:02:45
Totally! We are we going to make it we, we're already making it. We're already healed. Good. And I want anyone listening to this that is having a health challenge to really think about this. I was with a group of scientists recently, we're already healed. You're already healed. If your body is displaying something that is anomalous, you're asking for a deeper layer of healing, a deeper level, but your body is healing millions of times every single day to maintain who we are today. Of course, we're wired to thrive. We're wired to thrive in times just like this. And I believe anybody it's tough. This is a tough world, and lot of people are leaving this world. If you're still here, you're here for now. You're here because you've got something that the world needs. You've got something valuable to give to the world that the world needs right now. So when the universe taps you on the shoulder with an idea and says, Hey, maybe this isn't what you were trained to do in college. It's not what your degree or certificate says, and it's not what you've done all your life, but this is a part of you that the world needs right now. Step up, because we need you and and if you've got an idea, man, this is I was, I was on a plane a couple of years ago, and I had a an Air Force Cadet sitting next to me, and we were talking about the world, and he said, you know, my wife and I decided we would never bring a child into the world the way it is right now. I know a lot of people are saying that. And I asked myself, Why not? And he told me, you know, he said the world's a wreck. And I said, you know, I understand where you're coming from. I said, May I offer you another perspective? And he said, Yeah, what's that? And I said, Why? Why would you deny a soul the opportunity to come in to this plane, this planet right now, when everything's up for grabs, when everything's all buttoned up, nice and tidy, it's pretty hard to get a new idea across. When everything is in chaos and the world's up for grabs, one soul, one life, one idea could be anchored. It could change the whole world and turn this world around. We can love this world into peace. The ideas of. One soul to get off the plane. We're in baggage, and he didn't say goodbye. And I saw he grabbed his bag, and he was running and out the door. And I said, Hey, I didn't say goodbye. So where are you going? He said, Are you kidding? He says, after that conversation, I'm gonna go make a business. And I thought, I thought, yes, one one more, one more coming into the world. You know?

Alex Ferrari 1:05:20
It is that that's a true story. We just have to go, have you go through everybody, have everyone have that conversation? No, it's, it's a problem right now. A lot of the new, younger generations don't want to have kids because of multiple reasons.

Gregg Braden 1:05:33
Well, they have been led to believe a certain narrative and a certain focus about the world. This is, this is a beautiful world, and we and the world hasn't always been this way. Now I talk to young people that don't know any any other world, and I say the world has not always been the way you see it right? Now, this is an anomalous time. It's a rare, precious moment in the history of of this planet when we have the opportunity to make choices and to build a new world and the new human that's emerging based on what we know in our heart to be true, breaking away from those old patterns. So in a simulated reality with fractal cycles of civilization, we may be, and this is exciting me. We may be at a point where we're about to break a fractal cycle in in a way that doesn't repeat the hurt and the suffering and the hate in the past. And I say this to young people in the room, we all know a new world is coming. We know that I don't think we want the new world based on the hate and the suffering that this generation that saw, that we saw in the 20th century. We don't want a new world based on that. So this, this is the generation that has the heart and the soul and the strength and the will. It stops with us, that hate stops with us, the the ideas of retribution and of getting evenness that stops with us and with us, we have the opportunity now to start because the systems are unsustainable, because they're falling apart. Let's build something new. Let's love this world into peace, and let's build the world that we know is possible in our hearts. We can only do that when we accept the deep truth of what it means to be human and our human divinity. And so now the question comes down to the same question we always have to ask, Do we love ourselves enough to do just that? Do we love ourselves enough to accept our humanness without judgment, to accept the power of human divinity, the gift it was given to us 200,000 years ago. And that's not the question you answer with words. You you answer that by the way you live your life. And that's, I think, what's what's up for all of us right now?

Alex Ferrari 1:07:56
Greg, where can people find out more about you your new book and everything

Gregg Braden 1:08:00
You can't I'm a secret.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:03
You're on the Dark Side of the Moon. No, they're blurring out your temples,

Gregg Braden 1:08:08
You know? Thank you. Our website greggbraden.com, Gregg 2 G's means it's not a Gregory. My mom did that intentionally. 1g is short for Gregory. So I'm just a Gregg. 2G's greggbraden.com, you're, you're my Cancerian brother. We just discovered we have the same birthday. We have the same, exactly the same birthday.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:31
What time were you born?

Gregg Braden 1:08:33
6:23am

Alex Ferrari 1:08:34
I was around 5:20 apparently. So I wasn't too far off. Yeah. But that, yeah, well, we just discovered that we're like, You got to be kidding me. We've talked so many times.

Gregg Braden 1:08:44
I love this I love this brother because he's a Cancerian male. And Cancerians, you know, Cancerians, are all about home, family and emotion, emotion, yeah, and that can either be a blessing or it can be a curse, if you don't know how to handle the emotion, and if your home's taken from you for any reason. When, when I began traveling, yeah, for business, the moment I left the door, I was always trying to get back home, and it would wear me out. I would be exhausted until I found that I'm home wherever I am, so you're my home right now, and I'm good with this. And when I leave, I'm actually catching a flight later today to go to my my home in New Mexico, and I'll I'll be home, but it's about home, and it's about this time in the world. And I'm honored to share the journey with you cancerian, brother.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:34
I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you so much for coming back to the studios. And, man, I appreciate everything you're doing, the fighting, the good fight out there and getting this information,

Gregg Braden 1:09:43
The humans must prevail.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:44
We must prevail. We cannot let cybernet take over. I appreciate you, my brother. Thank you again.

Gregg Braden 1:09:51
Thank you a lot. God bless and thank you for all that you're doing in this beautiful studio, with all the the all the hearts and souls you bring in here to share their wisdom. With this vast community that you're creating here,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:03
Appreciate you, my friend, thank you!