How Differently Would You Live Your Life If You Knew This? with Gregg Braden

Gregg Braden 0:00
The better we know ourselves, the better equipped we are to deal with the crises and the challenges that life brings to our doorstep. And the better we know ourselves, the less we fear change.

Alex Ferrari 0:10
I'd like to welcome to the show Gregg Braden how you doing Gregg?

Gregg Braden 0:28
Alex, I am doing awesome. I am excited to be with you today. This is completely unscripted. We have no idea where it's gonna go. And that's, that's what makes it so exciting. I'm, we're actually not too far from one another. I'm coming to you from a studio just outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm just just to the north of you there in Texas. So I'm happy to be with you today. And I'm really happy to be with your community. So thank you for the opportunity to, to connect a little bit with with this this program.

Alex Ferrari 0:57
I appreciate you my friend. Yeah, I've been to Santa Fe many times is a beautiful, just wonderfully spiritual energy. There's an energy there without question.

Gregg Braden 1:04
Yeah. You know, well, New Mexico is a really interesting, it's an interesting place. It's one it's a large state. That is one of the most sparsely populated states in the country, there's a million and a half people in the whole state a million live in one in one city. And Albuquerque has only 500,000 people for, you know, Santa Fe, Taos, Las Cruces, all these other communities. And, and honestly, the farther north you go, the prettier it is. It's just high. It's what's called High Desert. So it's a lot of mysteries around the indigenous traditions from from Albuquerque all the way up to the Colorado border. So I'm excited to be here.

Alex Ferrari 1:45
Yes, my friend. So my, your work has been I mean, I've been watching you for years and studying the work that you've been doing for a long time, because you are one of these one of these figures who have been able to connect not only human potential, and science, but also spirituality. And that's a rare mix. So how did you begin your journey, combining these, these these, these somewhat, some say out, you know, things that are opposites, but truly, as we've all know, they're all really interconnected.

Gregg Braden 2:15
Yeah, that's, you know, that's the thing. They're, they're not opposites. And what people often asked me, they said, Greg, how did you make what they perceive as a quantum leap. I'm a scientist, I'm a degree, the earth scientist, strong background in life sciences. And I happen to be a scientist in the industry, when computers were really coming into vogue back in the, in the walls, late 60s, early 70s. And through the 80s. Computers had been around, but they were the size of an entire room. And they were being miniaturized to fit on what we now call a desktop or a, you know, a laptop computer. And so I had a very strong expertise in math, physics and computer science and, and so it was a diverse background, a strong and diverse background that allowed me to tap into a lot of different sciences during that time. And, you know, when I was in school, back in the 1950s 60s 70s, we were taught that the sciences were all compartmentalized. So you know, math and physics, were kind of a common language, but you kept biology separate from geology, separate from chemistry, you know, and, and the truth is, the world doesn't work that way. You know, there's just a world there's nature, and nature doesn't know about those boundaries. So it, it was less of a quantum leap, and more of a logical progression of understanding the sciences. And, you know, we talk about spirituality, the truth is that the people have assigned definitions to spirituality that limit our understanding of spirituality, the true definition of spirituality is it's all about relationships. And it's about our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with the Earth, with the past, with the future, with God, with other people, and those relationships are all defined by the sciences. So it made perfect sense for me through a scientific lens to explore these relationships. And I think there wasn't any, you know, great awakening moment. But I will say, a lot of my community know about this, I was during the Cold War years i i was tapped as an earth scientist for my expertise in in computer science. And it gave me a front row view to the horrors that were happening during the Cold War when the the former USSR and the former USA because it's it wasn't the same. You know, it's a very different country. Now, when those two superpowers came about this close During the unthinkable with nuclear weapons, it was an absolutely insane time. And my feeling has always been an Alex that if we know where to look into the past, and how to interpret the wisdom of past civilizations, that we would find the key that would help us to become greater than the differences that separate us and lead to the wars, like the Cold War that I was working in. So I really wanted to devote my my time to finding what is it that our ancestors knew that we've forgotten? Or what did they know that we're only beginning to understand that could help us create the kind of world in reality that we know is possible in our hearts and and spirituality and science? seemed to me like a reasonable path to pursue that. So that's a long answer to a short question. But that's that's kind of the way it happened.

Alex Ferrari 5:57
It's really interesting. You know, the more I've studied over the years of our I'm, I just absolutely love history, love ancient civilizations. I've been to a bunch of sites in Mexico, went to Chichen Itza went to to loom and you just sit there and you just it like Chichen Itza, you just sit there, and you look at this, all inspiring creation. And how, you know, hunter gatherers slash, you know, maybe some Archaea is our agricultural societies built something like that which we would have trouble in today's world, even content, to even think about building something like that, in your experience, from all your research over the years, I mean, there's just, I mean, this is a large conversation, this is a large, large question, but in ancient civilizations, it just seems that the technology that was that as was brought in from the Great Pyramids to go, Coco Pele, Coco, Coco, what's the new one, Coco Bailey, the one they just found in Turkey Gobekli Tepe, a Becca Tapley. That type A that those kinds of sites, which is now starting to rewrite history. We're like, wait a minute, 12,000 years ago, or 10,000 attempt about 12,000 years ago, at the end of the last ice age. This isn't doesn't make any sense. Hunter gatherers couldn't just wake up one morning, build this stuff. So what is your thoughts of did we kind of devolve, and we were once a little bit more advanced. I mean, if you look into the yugas, and the concepts of in an ancient Hindu scripts that talk about the cycles of 24,000 year cycles, and that we were at a higher, it higher societal, intellectual thing, and we start to devolve looking around us, we have devolved. But I just like to hear your thoughts on it.

Gregg Braden 7:46
Sure. Well, it's a big it's a big question. It's an important question. So I'm just going to take about a half step back to give context the question. There's a battle unfolding in our world right now, that's playing out on many different levels. There is a battle for our beliefs, what we believe about everything what believe about climate change, about pandemic, about 5g about, you know chemtrails, all those things, there's a battle for our thoughts. And that battle is playing out every every minute of every hour of every day through the news feeds of legacy media, that are pushing us to embrace a way of thinking that supports very, very specific agendas. There is a battle playing out in the classroom, in terms of the textbooks and the, the teachings, who we are where we come from. And, and this battle is is all over what is called? Well, it's our story, the story of of our past. But all of this, in my experience, in my opinion, is providing cover for an even deeper battle. And there is literally a battle for our very humaneness. Our humaneness is on the line, as advanced technologies are being proposed to replace our biology. So everything from artificial intelligence to chemicals in the blood chips in the brain sensors under the skin, all of this. So there is a battle for the way that we have been taught to think about ourselves. And that battle is fighting tooth and nail to to hang on to what's called the standard model. So the standard model says that we're born into a Dead universe in a dead inert universe, Big Bang just happened to occur and lucky physics is what it's called, and that we are the product of random genetic mutations. Lucky biology is what it's called. And that civilization began in a primitive state and evolve slowly, gradually over long periods of time. This is all part of the standard model that's being fought for Problem Alex is that the data as a scientist, I can look you and our viewers right in the eye. And I can tell you this straight up without any any hesitation, that data doesn't support the Standard Model. The data now tells us that the universe appears to be alive, it functions as a as a living being, it makes intelligent decisions when there's a star that's going to explode and can damage other star systems or other solar systems, they will change their course to avoid the the the energy that's coming from, from these exploding stars and the Hubble Space Telescope and the James Webb Telescope were the first to actually capture these things happening. And it was if it was just once, it could be a fluke. But it was happening again and again. And again. The universe appears to be a living entity alive, conscious humans. There is no physical evidence to support the theory of evolution as we are teaching in our schools that we evolved from primitive, you know, less less evolved beings than we are. It's speculation, it's theory. And now the DNA studies are telling us that we appeared mysteriously about 200,000 years ago. We can extract the DNA from ancient forms of life now and compare their genome to ours. And that tells us Neanderthal is we didn't descend from the underfall. We share DNA because we interbred with them. So we had the Amrutha boyfriends and girlfriends. And some people say they still do.

Alex Ferrari 11:32
I was about to say some people. There's many I've met many of them, sir.

Gregg Braden 11:35
Yeah, well, I was at an event recently. And I said that in the woman on the front row, she made that comment. She said, You know, I still do, and the guy next to her wasn't laughing. So I'm guessing that was probably I was seeing it happening in real time. But so the point of all of this is the evidence doesn't support the Standard Model. The standard model keeps us feeling powerless and separate from our world and makes us vulnerable to other people's ideas of how we live our lives and what kind of society is what kind of a society is possible when it comes to civilization itself. The same thing is happening. When I was in school, you know, again, 50s 60s, early 1970s, I was taught that that civilization began in what's called the the cradle of civilization, the Indus Valley about 5000 years ago, the Tigris Euphrates Valley, that idea is growing right out the window, but it's still being taught in the mainstream curriculum. We now know there was not a single cradle of civilization, but there were apparently six, simultaneous cradles of civilization. Tigris Euphrates was one of them Egypt, there was one there was one in Mesopotamia, well, Mesopotamia, there was one in China. One in northern in the northern Peru, that's called the corral civilization. Mesoamerica was another one of those civilizations. And what's interesting is they all had similar technologies. And they all had the, you know, the pyramidal technologies, they all had our cosmologies that tell us things about our solar system, and our milky way that we only rediscovered in the 20th century. And some of this stuff's 1000s of years old. They had architecture, they had agriculture, they had mathematics. And so the question is, you know, where did all of that come from? What How did all of that happen? And as a scientist, what I have to say, honestly, when you look at the data, and you look at the genetic manipulation, that had to occur, for us to be who we are human chromosome number two, is very well documented as being a fused a chromosome, that's a result of a fusion and genetic manipulation that cannot happen under natural circumstances. And it's responsible for our ability to have empathy and sympathy and self regulation of our biology, it's responsible for a brain 50% larger than our nearest primates. It's all because of that chromosome and chromosome seven, is the reason that we have complex speech and why you will never hear a chimpanzee saying Led Zepplin Stairway to Heaven, because their chromosomes seven does not have the mutations that ours does. Ours all underwent the mutations at the same time, rapidly in the same period of time, not slowly, gradually over long periods of time. And scientists know that these things cannot happen under natural conditions. So as a scientist, I have to say that we have appears that there's some kind of intervention that has happened in our past 200,000 years ago, and scientists agree on the date. So you know, we appeared 200,000 years ago, no, no controversy around that. The question is, where do we come from? That's where the the controversy is happening. So this civilizations that we have been taught. In the past. We were taught that civilization began 5000 years ago. Now what we know is that 5000 years is the most recent 5000 year cycle. And it's we've been taught the history only of the most recent 5000 year cycle. And there was another one before that. And that's where you see things like the Gulf of combat in India, under 120 feet of water, 9500 years old, a city three miles long, five miles wide, that matches the description in the Bhagavad Gita that everybody thought was a fairy tale. And that's where you see other places like corolle. In southern Peru, corolle collapsed, when we are taught that civilization began Karana collapsed 5000 years ago, but it goes back another 2000 years before that. So there's another 5000 year window, and now Gobekli Tepe A. And what we're finding now in Antarctica now that the ice is melting satellites are showing complex archaeological structures here, underneath the ice, that ice has been there for 20,000 years. The question is, who is building this stuff 20,000 years ago. So now you've got a 35,000 year cycle. And these these cycles are very familiar there, there are 5125 year long cycles that are called great world ages. that make up the Mesoamerican calendar, many people call them the Mayan calendar, that are driven largely by climate change. And by Earth location. In space relative to the Sun, Earth does a dance. So it's a tilt and angle and wobble The Earth is doing on a regular basis. Milan Kovic cycles is what these are called in geologic terms. And that drives a lot of the chain. So now we're looking back, we're looking back at pre Ice Age civilizations, you know, over 20,000 years BP before present, and, and the standard model is pushing back on this so. So as a scientist, I can tell you what happens when the discovery is made. Alex, it doesn't fit the traditional model. So whether it's it's evolution for humans, or whether it's civilization, you know, for the planet. If the discovery doesn't fit, it's called anomaly. And then they take the anomalies, and they put them into a pile over here. And they say, you know, we'll come back, and we'll look at that later. Well, now, what's happened is the pile of anomalies is actually so great. It's rewriting the the traditional story. So I have friends in academia, well, they're friends until we have this conversation.

And, you know, when I asked him, I said, Well, how come you can't? Why can't you teach this to your students? Why not? share everything with our young people, give them the old ideas, give them the new discoveries, and let them you know, let them figure it out. And what this particular is a male, He's professor at a well known University, he said, you know, we're going to leave that battle. For the next generation of professors. He said, there's a new generation of college professors, we're going to let them fight that standard model, because we don't want to change the books, we don't want to change what we've taught for 40 or 45 years. So here's the the net result is that we have a generation of young people now that are dedicated, and really want to solve the problems that we have left them. But we're asking them to solve the problems through the same thinking that we use to create the problems. We're not sharing that the new information. So of course, that's changing. It's changing very slowly. And so it's a long answer to a short question. But I think the what we have to say is there has been intervention. And all of the evidence, if you look at the DNA evidence that supports that, through genetic manipulation, cultural evidence, every indigenous tradition I've ever studied, Alex, not one of them says anything about evolution, slow, gradual change, they all say we are the product of a greater cosmic community. We have relations that extend beyond this world. They all say that, from the Tibetans to the shamans in the Yucatan, and certainly the, in the Andes. The native indigenous traditions throughout the Americas, they all say this. So this is the cultural evidence, the archaeological evidence. I'm a consultant as a geologist and a linguist. I'm a consultant on a couple of archaeological projects that are now revealing archaeological evidence depicting direct relationships between people of the earth and people from beyond the earth. And what's interesting is on these archaeological artifacts, there are maps of our solar system that are showing rings around Neptune, for example, that we didn't even know had rings until, you know, relatively late in the 20th century. And, and they're showing, of course, the rings around Saturn, and also the rings around Jupiter, they're showing the relative sizes, they're showing the moons of the different planets in our solar system. But the interesting thing is they're showing it as if you were coming in bound, rather than from Earth, leaving our solar system. And you have to say, Where does that stuff come from? And if you see one or two, you could say, Well, maybe it's a lucky fluke, we're literally talking about hundreds of artifacts, depicting the same things, but they are. They're recorded in different media, different most of it's on stone that we're seeing. So so now we've got archaeological evidence, we've got genetic evidence, we've got cultural evidence and archaeological evidence, because what we're seeing is these archaeological sites are now being dated 25 30,000 years before BP before present, Ice Age or even pre Ice Age. And none of it fits the Standard Model. None of it supports the story that we've been taught. And this is what I know my dear friend Graham Hancock talks about this a lot. David Hatcher Childress you know, a lot, a lot of we've been around for a long time. But But I think what's happening now is that the world is changing. And we're we're up against issues and problems that we can only solve by being honest with ourselves about who we are. And and so now the data supports a news, a new human story. And the question is, do we love ourselves enough? Do we love the world enough to embrace what the evidence is saying to us and follow it where it leads, rather than taking that evidence and trying to cram it into a pre existing story, where it doesn't fit. And that's the spiritual endeavor. I think that's up for all of us right now.

Alex Ferrari 22:11
And it's really fascinating because I think the thing that is changing and I think not just in the the arena that we're talking about, but also in spirituality, in, in religion, in in so many different fields. The information now that was once guarded by gatekeepers is now free and open. I mean, Graham's new Graham Hancock's new series that just came out on Netflix, for God's sakes, is going to be watched by millions and millions of people. And open up conversation shows like this is getting information out there. And the young, the younger generation is watching shows like this and watching shows like Graham's and reading books like yours and Graham's and other other leaders in the space. And they're just they just ask the question, well, we've got evidences,

Gregg Braden 22:58
We've got people like you, who are now dedicating your lives taking everything you learn in your previous industry. And you're applying it to a new industry, where we can share information like this, and there is a new generation. I remember I've known Graham for a long time, we were working in Egypt at the same time different projects. I remember being in Egypt when he and Robert Duvall and others were banned from the Giza Plateau, because of what they had discovered and how it goes against the what was being taught about Egyptian history and about Egyptian archaeology. They were banned from from those sites. And you know, it was a different world, then it was a different world. And we're lucky enough to be here bridging those worlds. And there is a new generation of young people that say, you know, what's the big deal? Let's get on with it. Let's, you know what, let's find out what what's really true. So. So it's it. That's why it's such an exciting time right now.

Alex Ferrari 24:01
Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts on because I know you've talked about this in the past that the new concept, or I'm not sure how new it is of simulation theory. And I've had a couple of scientists on before to talk about that. And it just again, it really quickly if you could explain what simulation theory is, but really quickly, but but the general concept, but a lot of the things that are signs in quantum physics are starting to bring up which which the establishment is not happy about quantum physics, when it came up was pretty much shut. The door was shut on it and hasn't been any major advances in quantum physics since 1980. And from my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that it's getting closer and closer to what the ancients were talking about in spiritual texts from the Vedas. I mean, there's concepts in the Vedas, that now they're just like, Oh, yeah. Maya, which is simulation theory. So I'd love to hear what your thoughts on it

Gregg Braden 24:24
Well, you know, it's a big conversation I can I say the name of a Another video series on your show show, of course. So for those listeners that are familiar with with Gaia, the guy, of course, company, I did an entire series called missing links season number two, the entire season was dedicated to this conversation. I think it was 13 episodes. The bottom line is just to summarize, it's called the forbidden question. In the world of physics. And the question is, are we living in a virtual reality or in a computer simulated reality? And a lot of people will say, Well, no, you know, everything here is real. And the question is, if you were in a simulation, how would you know, that's a simulation if that's all that you've ever known. And the idea is not new. It was first proposed back in 1940s, the thinking that we may be living at that time, the term virtual reality wasn't popular term, but the idea of a simulation was, and and the first computers were being built back in the 40s. And they were saying, Is it possible that, that we are the product of an advanced civilization or maybe we are the advanced civilization, that we've placed ourselves into a simulation, to learn something that's the purpose of the simulation is to learn something in in an immersive environment, to learn something in that environment that you're going to need when you go somewhere else? So when you look at the ancient traditions, every one of them says that this world isn't real. They say we're living the dream, or we're living the you said, the Hindu traditions. That's called the Maya, the Maya is the dream. Christian traditions United say that. This world is temporary, we're from someplace else, we're going to learn something here. And then we're going to leave, it's not going to last long here, we're gonna go somewhere else. So they all all support this. But that's not science. Where the science gets really interesting is 1991. Nick Bostrom, I didn't know we're going to have this conversation. So I'm doing this all from from memory to top my head. It was, it was Nick Bostrom that wrote the first paper. And actually it was a PhD thesis asking, Are We Living in a simulated reality? And, and you now can get a graduate degree in exploring the question of whether or not we are living in a simulation or not. But he, he wrote a paper and he created a very complex algorithm, plugging in many variables from everyday life. And if you're looking at the clock, we're good on time here. I'm looking good. This is good. It's a good conversation. Appreciate that, as well. And the first question you asked, I spoke extraordinarily long. Didn't give give you much time to chime in. So so I'm good. I'm good to go here. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you. So. So what Bostrom did was he created this algorithm plugged in all these variables from everyday life. And the the algorithm came back and said, the odds are, are much greater, that we are living in a simulated reality, then that this is what's called a base reality. Stephen Hawking was exploring this before he died. He said, This is the big question we have to ask ourselves, are, are we living in a base reality? Or is there another base reality out there? And we are one of many simulations? So when you think about this, you know, it actually makes a lot of sense, because in a simulation, who benefits from the simulation? And the answer is, it's the people in the simulation because they are the ones that are learning. When you look at the properties of a simulation, you know, whether it's a flight simulator, teaching pilots how to fly or a docking simulator, so SpaceX can connect to the space station or, you know, a sim simulator. So you can set up solar panels on the surface of Mars, you need to know how you do it before you get there. So so every simulation has a beginning it has an end. Every simulation has rules. If you follow those rules, the simulation is going to go much easier for you every simulation is based upon cycles, the computer will generate cycles of time or cycles of experience that repeat in the simulation. Every simulation, this is really interesting. Every simulation has a way for those in the simulation to communicate beyond the simulation when they need help. So you know, if you're in a flight simulator, you got crossed winds and you say hey, man, I've got cross you're on a radio, talking someone that's not in your simulator. So when you compare those, you compare those to what we're living right now we have the universe has a beginning. And mathematically we can tell you when it's going to complete solar sized solar system and life we have beginnings and endings We have rules that were left to us, by our ancestors long time ago. And if we follow those rules, life gets much easier. We're all told that this is a dream or an illusion or a maya. And when we get in trouble, rather than asking somebody else in the same situation, we were taught that we have the ability and consciousness to go beyond the simulation to ask your higher self, which may be you, your Higher Self may be you outside of the simulation that you're communicating with, or to ask God, you know, who may be the architect of the simulator, ask your ancestors who have died, or, you know, who are now sitting outside the simulation and what seems like a lifetime of 100 years for us, could be 10 minutes in a simulation. It so our entire lifetime, our perception of time could be 10 minutes, we may be the product of a highly advanced, technologically sophisticated civilization. It's very ancient that has run into some problem. And that problem, probably is mirrored in the simulation that could be an ecological disaster. It could be war, maybe maybe we are living in a world where we're about to destroy ourselves and war. And we're all in the simulation, saying, is there another way. And if that's true, it would make sense that you would have multiple simulations. And physics now tells us the multiverse multiverse theory. So you know, a lot of these things, different languages are telling us are pointing to the same thing. When you I just, I just did a, I was just on the webinar earlier today. And there was a physicist that I was talking to that was telling us how we are essentially, we're 99.999. And he went out like six decimal places, empty space, there's not much to us here. So and that is precisely the way you would expect a computer to build an avatar in a simulation. So one of the the interesting things that Elon Musk talks about when he he's a strong believer that we are in a simulated environment, he said, You know, we've only had computers, 60 or 70 years, and we are building environments that are essentially indistinguishable from everyday life, you go to Disney, and you see this on the large scale, you go into some of those rooms, it's all computer generated, it looks just real as hell, you don't know the difference? What would we be able to do as a civilization if we had had computers for five or 10,000 years, which is is nothing in simulation, how, how real would our simulations be and, and then you look at the themes that are playing out in our world today, and the overriding theme of good versus evil, and the ability for us to find a quality of love within us that transcends the hurt in the suffering, and the evil that we find around us. Maybe that's the theme that's playing out here, because we're gonna go to a world where we need to know those things. So we could go on and on. But the bottom line is the science actually now. Now a new a new experiment was done in 2014. That is showing, I mean, this gets pretty wild. It's in the experiments, an object only exists if it's being observed. If it's not being observed, it's not there. Here's here's why that's important. Because in a computer, when you play a computer game, that computer cannot hold an entire city in its memory, because it takes up too much memory. So it's only when you are in that part of the city, that the walls and the buildings become apparent, if nobody's there, you don't need that. What the experiments are showing is in the some in our physics labs simulations, is that things only exist when they're being observed. If they're not observed. As particles, then they become waves. It's still energy. But it is the observation, the interaction that collapses the waves into the particles that we call reality. And that is exactly the way that our computers work with simulations today. So so it's a big question. It's a big question.

Alex Ferrari 34:18
No, that it's, it's fascinating. I mean, I keep hearing more and more of these things. All this information is coming out little by little and kind of like, dripping out for the for the normal public, not academia, to start to digest into understanding the matrix was the big Zeitgeist shift that we started to think, Wait a minute, are we in a simulation? It was the first time well, it went into the zeitgeist.

Gregg Braden 34:41
But the thing about the matrix was the theme what the matrix said is that there's a world we cannot see that influences the world we can see and we we are in both of those worlds. Now the you know, all the Hollywood fighting and all that they did that to make it palatable, but the theme so There is an emerging philosophy that's in the scientific community that says consciousness informs itself through the things that it creates. So in other words, we I write a book or an artist creates a painting or a sculpture. Hollywood makes movies where did those ideas come from it. This philosophy says that those ideas come because we as a mass consciousness are asking ourselves to remember something about ourselves. And one of the ways we're doing it is through our what we call entertainment. But the entertainment is actually telling us something very important about ourselves. This philosophy extends to technology, it says all the technology that we've ever built, is complex it is it mirrors something that we already do within us. And I just did an entire program based upon this. And, as a scientist, I have to say it's true. I have yet to see any technology in the world around us that doesn't mimic what we already do in the cells from the building of the internet, to the way information stored on the chip, even blockchain technology that now is going to revolutionize the way that finance and money what they mean to us in our world. Blockchain mimics the way information is stored in the genome. In the genome, there is a transparent immutable record of every genetic transaction that has ever occurred leading up to the current moment to the current genome. That is the beauty of blockchain technology, because there is a transparent immutable record of every digital transaction that has ever occurred. So it cannot be manipulated the way current, you know, centralized financial systems are and things like that. It looks like the technology that will free us from the shackles of fear and greed, financially mirror, the way that we store information and the cells of our body consciousness informs itself through its creations. So the simulation may be telling us the same thing, maybe our ability to simulate on a computer game, we may be reminding ourselves through that that we are living that in our lives. And if so then how many layers are we into that simulation? Where is our our base reality? That's another conversation I think we could have.

Alex Ferrari 37:30
I do have to ask you because I just found out about this, this archaeological site in Turkey. The gopay Gobekli Tepe, I can never say it, it's great. Gobekli Tepe a Gobekli Tepe, A, it is a game changer for the narrative of, of ancient civilizations. It just throws the timeline of all the stuff that we've kind of talked about through this conversation out the window. Can you tell everybody a little bit just a little bit about what it is? Or what the discovered there?

Gregg Braden 37:58
Yeah, well, this is, it's a beautiful example. To you, My lips are dry. I've been doing the interviews all day today. I appreciate you. Yeah. And I'm sinking lower my chair, I've got to adjust this chair here. I you know, it's a it's a perfect example of where the the false narrative of obsolete science being held in the classroom has hurt knowledge in the past. It's a it's a perfect example, because Gobekli Tepe a, it's a series of mounds, they were discovered in southern Turkey. They were discovered there was a an American archaeologist who made the discovery back in the 90s. And he dated these things, and they came back over 10,000 BP before present. And he had learned what all of us had learned that civilization began 5000 years ago. And, and so to have a date twice, that he said, Well, there's a problem with the machines. He walked away from the discovery of a lifetime. And it wasn't until a German archaeologist went to the same site, and he believed the data. And he very famously said, he said, If I don't leave right now, he said, I'll spend the rest of my life here and he did and he died. I think it was 2000. I think he died in 2017 or 2018 at the site. So Gobekli Tepe A is a series of round temple sites that had been buried intentionally by whoever was living there. They were buried 8000 years ago, and we don't know why they were buried if they were buried to protect them or to hide them. We don't know the answer to that. But now and only a couple of them have been excavated this so Earth penetrating radar is showing there are about 20 of the temple sites. Only a couple have been excavated and and I think one or one primarily is available to the public right now. It's an ongoing archaeological site. But now they're they're showing the dating is showing that was buried 8000 years ago, which already blows the timeline. But that now they're going back over over 13,000 years BP before present? Well, the reason this is a problem, two reasons, one, it's older than 5000 years of the cradle of civilization. But number two, as a geologist is fascinating to me, because the the last Ice Age ended, right around 12,000 years ago. And, and then there was a period of unsettled weather for about 4000 years, when the ice melted, and the great floods happened on the earth, we can see that. So if the Ice Age and around 12,000, and we're now dating 13, to 15,000, that means these were either built during the Ice Age, which is unlikely, or they were built pre Ice Age, and then the ice, you know, was in on all of this, you know, these other things happen that were allowed them to be covered. So the truth is, we don't know who built these and there appear to be no written records. And you find this time and time again, then lead groups into southern Peru every I have for 40 years now. COVID was the first time in 40 years that we didn't go to Peru at least once with a group and and and we'll be going back and 23 What we find in the pre Incan sites, like to Minako and Bolivia and even in some of the archaeological sites in the Sacred Valley in Cusco, no written record. So you see this time and time again, corral, Peru, no written records, or did they have written records that we simply haven't recognized? Were they using a form of communication, that we're only, you know, beginning to understand and that's the evidence supports that then that's the beginning of another conversation. So Gobekli Tepe A is a tangible mystery, because you cannot deny what the evidence is showing. Antarctica is blowing those dates right out the window. The problem is, and Arctic is off limits to civilians. So there's a little place on the Ross shelf where civilians are allowed, you know, a little day trip, but the interior of Antarctica is, is off limits.

Alex Ferrari 42:27
Who's stopping that?

Gregg Braden 42:28
Well, this is what's interesting back in the 1950s. So that the you know, during the Cold War years and article was kind of divided up it was said it was an international, you know, international continent, nobody owns it. But at the same time, the superpowers at the time put military bases China's got their base, America has their base, Russia has their base. The interior, the continent, once you get beyond the ice appears to be desert, there is no ice, it's an it's got to be one of the driest, it's zero humidity, one of the driest places on the face of the earth. Yeah, it's a facet. As a geologist, I'm fascinated by it. So I think it's probably some of the tallest mountain ranges are underneath ice right now the ice is about two miles thick. And it's been around 20,000 years. Now that global warming is melting the ice, what the satellite imagery is showing are complex structures. They're not like little pole huts, you know, in hunting villages. I mean, these are big, complex structures. And they are believed to be relatively intact. And either somebody built them in the ice, or they were there before the ice occurred 20,000 years ago. And there's a lot of mystery around that. Well, you're you're from the film industry in LA, you probably heard some of this, they had film crews that have gone down that have never been seen again. One of them very famously was from I think UCLA, and they were, you know, relatively young people. We don't know where that film crew is, the parents are, you know, working with agencies to try to find it out. So, so I think whatever we discover, when and it will be revealed, when it's revealed, now the article will will blow the Gobekli Teppei dates right out the window, and all of it. All of it says to us is that there's a new human story emerging, we are not what we've been told, we're more so much more than we've been led to believe in the past. Better we know ourselves, the better equipped we are to deal with the crises and the challenges that life brings to our doorstep. And the better we know ourselves, the less we fear change. And this is a big one, Alex because the world is changing and people are being conditioned to be afraid of of the change. And that fear makes them vulnerable to other people's ideas of of what the world should look like. And you know, some of the we need change. I mean, I Think the global financial system for example, it's buckling and collapsing under its own weight because it's unsustainable. Our energy equation on the planet is unsustainable in its current form. The way that we're growing food is unsustainable in the presence of changing climate, which changes the local weather. The good news is that we already have all the answers to all the big problems facing us right now we've had them for over almost 70 years, we've had the answers to the technological answers, to energy to food, to climate, I mean, all finance, we know how to build economies based on sharing and cooperation, rather than scarcity. And in competition, which is what's playing out in the world right now, we already know all this. What's lacking is the leadership that makes these things a priority and makes human life a prior priority in our lives. And when I say leadership, I don't mean America, or Europe, or, you know, China or Russia or anything. It's just the leaders. We're all leaders. We're all leaders. It's about the way that we think about ourselves, and our brothers and sisters on this planet. And then the way that we transform our thinking into the choices that we make, politically, financially, economically. And it's a very empowering way to begin to think about our world. But it all begins with our story. So our story, we've just covered some topics here today that change our story. And that gives us new ways and new reasons to think differently about ourselves and in powerful ways. But I think it's important to do it in kind kindness, I think it is counterproductive to be angry we could be. And a lot of people are as a scientist, here's how I look at this, Alex, I say that we are on a big learning curve. And that we've made choices in the past as individuals and societies based on what we knew at the time, you know, we couldn't possibly have known in the 1950s what we know right now, about DNA and biology and about energy production. So those old ideas they served us, and they got us to where we are. And now we can let them go gracefully. Rather than struggle to try to hang on to things that don't work. And let's embrace the new technologies that are out there and the thinking that makes them possible in our lives. And I think for the first time in a long time, we're going to find out what it really means to be human. And in this beautiful world that supports supports our humaneness. And it's easy to get stuck in little pieces of this and become angry because of where the world is now. But I think we're better served by allowing those pieces to support a big puzzle. Look at that big picture and say, Yeah, you know, the world of the past is changing. And, and the good news is that we do have new solutions that require us to think very, very differently about ourselves and our relationship to the world. And that's why these discoveries are important. So,

Alex Ferrari 48:11
Gregg, I have to I have to ask you one last thing, please, please come back. I can keep talking to you for like five or six hours, my friend. I know you're a busy man, I know you got a lot of things to do. But I do appreciate you spending the time with us today and, and scratching the surface to a lot of these big monsters questions I asked you. So I appreciate that. But please come back my friend, because this was a such a wonderful conversation.

Gregg Braden 48:35
Oh, well, thank Thank you. We'll call this Greg and Alex, part one. And, you know, I think I think it is a really important conversation that we're that we're having. And I have to acknowledge as a scientist, it's a very different way of thinking. This is different than what I was taught when I was in school. And in the scientific community, there's a struggle in the scientific community, because there's the old story, and then there's the evidence that doesn't support it. And the scientists are saying, you know, what do we do with that? And how do we embrace that? And then some of them have pressure, economic pressure, you know, if you teach these new discoveries, you're going to lose your job. No more. No more tonight. Well, I work with some of my dearest friends. Dr. Bruce Lipton.

Alex Ferrari 49:18
Yeah, he's coming out. He's coming on the show tomorrow.

Gregg Braden 49:20
I thought I thought he's gonna be on soon when you see him, give him my love. I will we just we were just presenting in Paris together last two weeks ago, we were just on the stage together. He left his tenure position in teaching biology to medical students, because his experiments did not support the curriculum. He was teaching and he was not allowed to teach with the new discoveries show which today is now leading on science that we call epigenetics. So he will talk to you about that. I'm sure. So yeah, this is where, you know, if we follow the evidence to the story, it leads. I think it's very empowering New World Roll that the weights for the young people and I'm glad that we're around to see it come to fruition. But again, it all comes down to our story in the way that we've been taught to think about ourselves. So thank you for having a platform so we can share these ideas and explore them and and I do I look forward to our next Alex

Alex Ferrari 50:18
I appreciate you my friend thank you for all the hard work and the battling that you're doing out there to help the world my friend I appreciate you.

Gregg Braden 50:23
You're very welcome. Take good care.

Alex Ferrari 50:27
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