On today’s episode, we welcome Satpal Singh, an individual whose spiritual journey and teachings emanate from the profound depths of the Sikh tradition. His life story is not one marked by dramatic upheavals but rather a gentle unfolding of spiritual awareness, cultivated within a deeply religious Indian household. Satpal’s narrative reminds us that profound realizations can emerge from the seemingly ordinary rhythms of daily life.

Satpal Singh grew up in what he describes as a “Sunday Sikh” household, attending the Gurdwara on Sundays while living a relatively typical life the rest of the week. It wasn’t until his late teens that he began to question and explore the deeper spiritual questions that would eventually shape his path. “As most children do, you tend to inherit your parents’ definition of your religion,” he reflects. This curiosity led him to meet his first mentor, a simple family man who introduced him to the concepts of oneness and meditation, reshaping Satpal’s understanding of his own spiritual tradition.

This mentor’s teachings opened Satpal’s eyes to the internal journey that lay at the heart of his faith. He began to see that the spiritual masters of his tradition were pointing toward an inner transformation rather than mere external practices. “When I started to meditate and had breakthroughs in my own self-discovery, I realized that what I had been taught as religious practice was actually about something much more profound happening inside me,” he explains.

In this exploration, Satpal found that meditation and the guidance of a mentor were crucial. He likens meditation to navigating the ocean: daunting without guidance but deeply fulfilling with the right direction. “You need someone who’s been there before to show you the map, even though the journey is ultimately yours to take,” he says. This understanding underscored the importance of persistence and proper guidance in one’s spiritual practice.

Satpal’s insights into spirituality extend beyond personal experience to broader reflections on how we understand and practice our faith. He distinguishes between religion and spirituality, noting that while religion often binds us to specific beliefs and practices, true spirituality sets us free. “Religion seems to bind you down, while spirituality breaks all those divisions, making life much more unifying,” he asserts. This perspective encourages looking within for answers rather than seeking external validation or salvation.

A significant theme in Satpal’s teachings is the concept of oneness, a fundamental principle in Sikhism that emphasizes the unity of all existence. He challenges the divisive nature of ego and the human tendency to see ourselves as separate or superior. “The fact that you believe that you are is the reason why you can’t be happy in life,” he says. By letting go of this self-importance, one can begin to see the divine in everyone and everything, fostering a sense of unity and compassion.

Throughout his journey, Satpal has also encountered the challenges of balancing spiritual practice with everyday life, especially as a parent. He candidly shares how his spiritual teachings are tested and reinforced in the chaos of daily family life. “Every time that happens, I go to bed at the end of the night and think, where’s all that spiritual training gone?” he admits, highlighting the humility and constant learning involved in truly living one’s spiritual beliefs.


  1. Inner Transformation: True spirituality involves looking within and transforming oneself rather than merely adhering to external practices. This inner journey leads to profound self-discovery and enlightenment.
  2. Oneness: Embracing the concept of oneness helps dissolve the ego and fosters a sense of unity with all existence. Recognizing the divine in everyone and everything can transform our interactions and our world.
  3. Persistence in Practice: Consistent meditation and the guidance of a mentor are crucial for spiritual growth. These practices help navigate the complexities of life and maintain a sense of peace and purpose.

Satpal Singh’s journey is a testament to the transformative power of spiritual practice and the profound insights that can emerge from a life dedicated to inner exploration. His teachings remind us that spirituality is not about grand gestures or dramatic experiences but about finding peace and oneness in the everyday moments of life.

Please enjoy my conversation with Satpal Singh.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 278

Satpal Singh 0:00
I think it's about finding peace, whichever path you're on. I think that's what I'm trying to do as my purpose like forget whatever else I do in the world can I learn to be happy and peaceful in in my day to day life and that that's that's that's a big enough challenge in life, let alone anything else that you try and achieve

Alex Ferrari 0:19
I like to welcome to the show Satpal Singh, How you doing Satpal?

Satpal Singh 0:33
Very well Alex, nice to meet you how you doing?

Alex Ferrari 0:36
Very good, my friend. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you about all things spiritual and deep. And let's see where this conversation goes my friend.

Satpal Singh 0:46
Well, thank you for having me. I mean, I was saying that I've enjoyed some of your shows. So it's a it's a real pleasure. And thank you for reaching out to me as well.

Alex Ferrari 0:54
Absolutely, my friend. Absolutely. So my first question to you is, how did you begin your spiritual journey?

Satpal Singh 1:00
I always hear these life coaches and various spiritual teachers around the world. And they always have these fantastical stories about huge childhood traumas, and then going through these these these big changes. And I've asked myself that question so many times, like how come I don't have an interesting story. And I think I grew up in a fairly normal, religious Indian household. My parents brought my my me and my sister up in a relatively religious upbringing. And our sort of spiritual background is that we come from the Sikh tradition. And I like to think of us as you know, as my childhood as, as the Sunday Sikhs, we would go to the temple, the Gurdwara on a Sunday, and then Monday to Saturday, you just live your normal lives. And there was never really any sort of deep philosophical kind of questioning of my faith or anything like that I was pretty comfortable with it as a child growing up into my teenage years. And it was only in sort of my late teens that I developed a real fascination for some of the deepest spiritual questions. And I think where it came about was, as, as most children do, you tend to inherit your parents definition of your religion. And it's only in sort of the teenage years where you start having those conversations with friends and your peers. And you realize that not everybody sees even your own tradition, or your own religion in the same way, and everybody has their own viewpoint. And rather than putting me off, that actually really fascinated me, I was like, How come we both belong to the same tradition, but you have a completely different understanding about the rules and what what you can do what you can't do, how you view life. So it kind of really piqued my curiosity. And I started to dig a little bit deeper. And I was very fortunate, around the age of 20, to meet what I call now my first mentor, and again, wasn't some sort of priest wasn't some sort of spiritual, enlightened teacher, he was just an ordinary family man who had seemed to have had the right answers to things, and was just able to open my mind to look at my own spiritual tradition, with this kind of fresh lens. And he started to teach me around concepts around oneness, and introduced me to meditation. And that, to me was where things really started to change where I started to meditate, and realize that the religion that I'd grown up with was really talking about something fundamental and internal that was going on within me. And when I started to have breakthroughs, and in my own journey in my own self discovery, and then diving back into the spiritual texts, and saying, Oh, wow, this is actually what they're talking about, I've never really questioned what they were talking about the spiritual masters, we're talking about an inner journey. And that, to me was just the whole revelation that there is ultimately something going on within you that you need to discover, as opposed to it just being a set of practices that you need to follow.

Alex Ferrari 4:13
Yeah. And so many times, we're told that everything will find salvation outside of ourselves, never within ourselves. And that's kind of what I think you and I are both trying to tell the world a little bit more that the answers are actually within you.

Satpal Singh 4:27
And that's the same message that's come from almost all spiritual traditions, which is stop looking outside. There is something so profoundly beautiful within you that you've never really gone to look. And when you do, you need a guide. You need somebody to actually show you the way because a lot of the times people who just sit and close their eyes, it lasts maybe 30 seconds before they give up because it's I don't know what I'm looking for. My mind is too busy. And it's only through that persistence. some guidance and having your hand held by the right people and showing you look for this, go do this, go try this. And that's when you begin to discover there is a completely different way of living life, when you come to discover some of the secrets that are held within you, and I just found that whole thing. So moving. So life changing, that I actually decided that that was going to be my my path in life was just to go and share whatever little bit I had experienced within myself to just help everyone else kind of uncover those things.

Alex Ferrari 5:35
Would you? Would you agree with this analogy that meditation is very much like going into the ocean on a boat. And if you truly don't know where you're going, or don't have a way to navigate through the ocean, it's just, it's daunting, and you can get lost. And you could just go, you know, what I just want to get out of here, because this doesn't make any sense to me. Where if you do have guidance, or some sort of navigation, to where you are trying to find, it becomes a very enjoyable trip.

Satpal Singh 6:05
Completely. I say that whenever you try to meditate, it is ultimately something that you have to go on your own. Although others can guide you, it's almost as though they can only show you the map. But ultimately, it's a route that you have to take on your own. But you do need that map, you do need someone who's been there before. And I mean, it's it's true of anything, I take the example that if you want to succeed in any field in life, the first thing you want to do is go and find a mentor, go and find somebody to shadow. You know, if you want to be really successful in business, you start following all the business entrepreneurs that are out there, and you know, watching their YouTube channels or reading their books, you need to know how others have done it. And for no other reason than to just see one of the pitfalls that they've encountered. So that you know, to sidestep some of those and avoid some of those as well.

Alex Ferrari 7:00
Now from your journeys, what kind of misconceptions Do you think they have come out of spirituality? Because it is a word that is tossed around? Very frequently? And there's a lot of misconceptions from people on the religious side, the dogmatic side? And also people who are from the agnostic side who just feel like they have different perceptions of that word. What is the definition in your idea? And what are some of those misconceptions?

Satpal Singh 7:23
It's very interesting. So for me, coming from more of an Indian Eastern spiritual background, I never had a problem with this word spirituality. And it's only when you start looking at it from different people's lenses, you realize that not everybody defines it in the same way. For some people, the word spirituality is just synonymous with religion. For some people, it actually means spiritualism, which means to contact spirits, and run seances, and contact people who have passed on. And sometimes I'm really careful about certain words, because what I might mean about spirituality is not the same as what you might mean. And the way I've come to define it within myself is, religion seems to bind you down. And spirituality sets you free. Religion was meant to set you free, but it starts to become dogmatic and it starts to become almost tribalism. This is what I believe, these are my rules. These are my practices. And you can have countless number of tribes in the world who all have their own fantastical belief systems about what is true and what is not. And that's how you start creating all these divisions. That's how you start deciding that you belong in one box. And the other person, if they don't join your box, then then they're the outside is. And I think spirituality just breaks all of those divisions, it breaks all of those barriers between you and everyone else. And it's a lot more wholesome. It's a lot more unifying.

Alex Ferrari 9:00
Why do you think that so many of us need to, to be right about what they believe in that they have to be like, it's my like, We are the chosen ones, you are obviously going to go to hell because you don't believe with what I say? Or you're obviously going to go to some magical place after you die. And I'm not because I don't believe what you believe. Why do we you believe that that's been such a ingrained almost in our DNA for hundreds of 1000s of years, as opposed to this concept of oneness, which is starting to flourish a little bit more in this time period around the world. I've seen it. And I think you have as well, that people are starting to understand that we're not separate. We're a little bit more. But there's there's still this history. And by the way, we're still in it a lot. Why do you believe that that's the case.

Satpal Singh 9:56
I think we can't really understand people's behaviors. until we start to have an understanding of what an ego is. And most people are acting out of their egos, as I'm sure you and I are as well, subconsciously or unconsciously. But I think what spiritual masters tried to do, if they do it right is they shine a light on your ego, they show you what it is that you're holding on to this sense of superiority, this sense of I am, right is so ingrained in us because ultimately, one of the things that we don't want to let go of is this feeling of I am. And so the fact that I Am, I exist, is so crucial to how we understand ourselves. We do whatever it takes to re cement that sense of it. I mean, any argument that you've ever had with another person, the only thing that you're really saying is I am right. And I need you to know how right I am. And the other person is saying exactly the same thing, but I'm right. And I'm gonna keep raising my voice until you decide that I'm the one. That's right, and you're wrong. And so that's what we're doing all day, we're just really solidifying this concept that I am I exist, I'm important, my existence counts for something. And the spiritual masters actually turned that whole thing upside down. In fact, they're saying that is your ultimate cause of suffering. The fact that you believe that you are, is the reason why you can't be happy in life. And it's only when you start to become comfortable with letting go of this sense of self importance, that's when you can start to ease your suffering, that's when you can start to see that there is a better way to live. And it's not by creating divisions, it's not by solidifying and making yourself feel right all the time, it's just about creating those kind of unifying factors, looking at everyone as part of that oneness. And I completely agree with you that we're in such a fortunate time, where oneness really is something that people are awakening themselves to.

Alex Ferrari 12:11
And there's talking, there's talks about it there, you know, my show my channel, I can see people are interested in these kinds of concepts in large ways and your channel as well. And with the work that you're doing 10 20 years ago, that's not the case. But now it seems to really be opening up. And I always say to people, when when you throw an idea out to somebody, and it rocks the foundation of their belief system, it's a chain reaction, if I believe in reincarnation, but that doesn't exist in my beliefs. So if I believe in that, that destroys everything I have in a wait a minute, my priest who I really like he's been telling me lies all these years. And wait a minute, my parents who brought me up, have they been wrong all this time? That can't be it, I must kill you now. Like, it's like it? Can you see how quickly that to the dark side. And that's kind of the history of, of man. In many ways.

Satpal Singh 13:05
I think what's interesting is that a lot of the times people are willing to defend something that they've just been told again, and again and again. And they've been told it so many times. And they believe it's so deeply within themselves that they don't actually understand that it is just a thought. It's just an idea. It's not an experiential truth. And one of the things that I think I try and do with the work that I'm doing is I will only want to share something if I think it's something that I've experienced in my own life. I don't I have no interest in in concepts, I have no interest in theories, because you can have all the theories that you want, but there's only a certain number of things that you can actually know. And when you come to know certain truths. Experience experientially you've actually known them, you've actually tasted it, then you don't want to fight somebody else you want to share that experience with someone else. It's the idea of if you if if the people around you have never tasted a strawberry, and you've tasted it, you don't want to fight the other person, you want to give them the same sense of wonderment that you've experienced. And so that kind of compassion should really come out of your spirituality as opposed to defending a set of beliefs that you don't even know whether they're true or not.

Alex Ferrari 14:33
And to piggyback on your your analogy of the strawberry, it's like two different people who have never tasted a strawberry but have been told 100 times what a strawberry tastes like. And one says it's sweet one says a sour Well, well, my parents brought me up to believe that strawberries are sweet mind brought me up to believe the strawberries are sour, but yet neither of them have ever tried it or investigated those ideas, but yet they will fight to the death to defend it. Exactly. So Bizarre as you. And now it sounds ridiculous, as I've put that, in that analogy, you're like, of course that. But that's what that's what dogmatic belief systems and any belief system, whether it be dogmatic and spirituality and certain concepts and spirituality, and religions as well, it's pretty fascinating.

Satpal Singh 15:17
This is why I really find terminology quite fascinating. Because if you look at just the definition of the word belief, it means to put your faith in something that you don't know to be true. That's literally the dictionary definition to put your faith in something that you don't know to be true. And I always asked myself this question, is that what my spiritual masters experienced? Did they believe in a God? Which means they they think it's there, but they're not? They're not really sure? Or did they know God? And if they knew what oneness was, if they knew a divine experience, then the question then comes back to me, do I know it? Or do I just believe it? And once you start to understand these things, you really can start to see clearly, I don't know what I've been taught all my life, but there's very few things that I actually know to be true.

Alex Ferrari 16:17
Without question, now, we've been talking about spiritual masters and, and gurus and things like that, that people talk about all the time, as you know, so a lot of people look at you for advice and look for you as guidance in your work. Have you ever felt lost in your life? And if you did, how did you overcome it?

Satpal Singh 16:36
One of the things I tried to do in the YouTube channel that I run and the lectures that I'm fortunate enough to give, is, I always make it clear, I'm not a spiritual master, I always make it clear that the wisdom that I talk about is far greater than me, and I fall down every single day. And the reason I'm able to stand up and talk to people about it is because I keep falling down. And this wisdom keeps working on me, I keep having this to bounce back from. And, you know, like, you're right, there are people who would look to me for guidance. And, you know, I've had all sorts of labels and titles thrown at me. And I always say, if you want to know how spiritual I am, just asked my wife and kids, they'll tell you how ordinary my life really is. Because, you know, you can have a facade in front of other people, and you can say all these flowery words, but you go home, and you have two young kids screaming at you. And straight away all of that spiritual training just goes out the window. And, and it's quite humbling, actually, every time that happens, because, you know, I go to bed at the end of the night. And I'm like, so where's all that spiritual training that you give other people? Where's it? Where's that gone? And it's quite humbling, because you realize that you're nothing, you don't have any special powers, you don't have any special abilities. You You're just in as much in need of this wisdom as as the people that you're speaking to. So, you know, the short answer is yes, I fall down all the time.

Alex Ferrari 18:13
You know, the funny thing is, is that I always tell people, you know, it's great that these these spiritual masters that we study like yoga, Nanda or Buddha or Jesus, that's great, but you know, throw them a five year old, and talk to me after that. It's because, you know, most of the spiritual, spiritual masters were we're not did not have families. There's one that does, and I love him live here Maha che, in the in the line of of Yogananda, and I always look to Him and His teachings, because they actually told I think his guru told him, No, you have to go off and live a normal life. So you could show people it's possible. It's just not easy to be spiritually enlightened, or even begin to really composite when you have kids or life or things happening to you.

Satpal Singh 19:04
It's so true. And and this is one of the things that I love about the Sikh tradition and why I speak so much about it. And people don't know. There's a spiritual text in the world, which I follow called the Guru Granth Sahib. And that is written by spiritual masters who all got married, who all had kids. So Guru Nanak, whose name you might have heard of, you may not know that he was married, and he had kids. And he worked on a farm and before that he worked in in, in a store where he was buying and selling goods. And so what I love about the spiritual tradition is that I'm actually learning from masters who saw what it was like to deal with those day to day struggles and, and you know, and it's an observation that I've had many times from many other spiritual traditions. I'm like, give them a mortgage, give them give them A job that they've got to go to everyday, give them a boss who's kind of screaming at them and giving them deadlines, and give them kids. And now let's see how that spiritual practice works. And and it's no disrespect to any of the other spiritual masters that are their spiritual traditions. They're amazing. But one of the things I always I'm concerned about is there are spiritual teachings that are out there in the world which were developed, and were given only to monks. And now because of the internet and knowledge, that tradition is being spread everywhere, but a lot of the times it was actually meant for monks who kind of walked away from life. And this was this was something that my spiritual master Guru Nanak, who lived around the 14 1500s, when he was a young young man, he was invited by many spiritual masters and said, Hey, why don't you come and join us, you're clearly very spiritual. And his response was, the world is burning. And the spiritual masters are sitting up on a mountain meditating, he says, I can't come and join you, I need to go down where the people are, I need to go and be with them, and show them what it's like. And what you realize is some of the practices become a lot harder to practice, the spiritual teachings that are out there, there are a lot harder to do. You can't necessarily meditate for two and a half hours every single day, when you wake up. And the first thing you got to do is get your kids ready for school and catch the train and get to work on time. And then come home and make sure that the groceries that have been ordered and you've got to put dinner on the table, you can't necessarily commit to some of those things. So then the big question becomes, what is a spiritual tradition that I can do in my day to day life? What's that? What's the meditation technique that I can use, that allows me to go to work every day and interact with the world every day? And that's where I think some my work really comes in, because I think it actually starts to answer some of those questions.

Alex Ferrari 21:56
That's beautiful. It's really beautiful. I like I like that point of view. Because you're absolutely right. Many of the spiritual traditions we are, are very monk asked. And it's easier to just sit around for 10 12 hours a day and meditate, eat rice, clean the Fourier, and go back to meditation, as opposed to everything you just said, which is a more complicated life experience, to say the least.

Satpal Singh 22:19
And it's not to take anything away from them. Because it's not easy, it's not easy to do some of those things, either, it's incredibly difficult to just sit with your thoughts. And, and just kidding, right, and, and, and to deal with with a life of of real hardship, because a lot of these monks will, will sit in caves and have nothing to their name, they don't have a phone, they wear the same clothes every day. And it really I mean, it's a beautiful tradition, because it really begins to attack your ego and, and you sit there and you're thinking, you know, my friends are driving around in fancy cars, and what am I doing here just sitting in a cave. So it's not an easy tradition at all. But it's not the only path. That's not the only way to enlightenment, there are ways where you can live your day to day life. And I think for 99% of the world, people don't want to run away from from life, they want to be part of life, they want to enjoy all the sights and sounds and the flavors of life, but actually do it in a much more spiritual way.

Alex Ferrari 23:19
You know, it's really interesting, you said something that I want to kind of dig into a little bit is that there are multiple paths to self realization to enlightenment, where so many believe that it's only the Buddhist way, or the only the Taoist way, or only the Hindu way, or only the Christian way, or the just a spiritual way or a guru Ray, there is from doing this show, and speaking to so many different traditions, ideas, thoughts, I've come to realize, in my own experience, that there is a plethora of ways that you can get to the top of the mountain, everybody is everyone's climbing the mountain from different aspects of the mountain. So the perspectives are very different. But they're all going towards the same peak. And if you let go of the ego, and just follow the path that rings true to you, by the way, your path is obviously ringing very true to you. But it might not ring true for other people, and they might find it in other traditions or other ideas. But there's multiple ways to do this. There's a multiple ways to skin a cat.

Satpal Singh 24:30
I love the analogy that you gave of reaching one destination, which is the top of the mountain and there's many different parts. And I think you really hit the nail on the head when you said that there are parts that will be right for you. And I you know the the example that I think works well is if you ask 10 Different people how to lose weight. they'll all tell you a different way that worked for them. So somebody will say I just jog for five miles every day. And somebody else will say well I I just do intermittent fasting. And I only eat one meal a day and somebody says I just swim every day. And none of them are wrong. They're all different parts now, for you, you might think I don't have time to go for a run, or it's just, you know, I'm not built that way that I enjoy doing that I would rather do something else, you know, I'd rather go dance classes and lose my weight that way, then then then go for a run on the treadmill. So, but you still get to the same destination. And I think it's only again, you really have to have an understanding of your ego, to be able to let go of it. And some of the times when something pinches you and you think that they're wrong, or they're right, anything that makes you that creates a sense of division between you and someone else. Anything that makes you feel superior, that should be sending alarm bells to you on your spiritual path that says, oh, that's another ego. Anything that tells you I'm good, I'm better I'm look how right I am. I'm doing this right. That should just be a real warning sign that you've not seen this aspect of your own ego.

Alex Ferrari 26:04
You mean so like, I can't say I'm the most spiritual? I'm much more spiritual to you. I'm the humblest I'm much more humble than you, sir.

Satpal Singh 26:12
You can say it, but your spiritual teacher may have some some some words for you.

Alex Ferrari 26:19
Right, exactly. It's just but but by the way, that that's another trap. And that's been said by a lot of gurus throughout the, throughout the centuries, spirituality itself and they and the road to spirituality can be laden with traps of the ego going, Oh, I can meditate I can meditate so well that I levitate. I can I have yogic powers now. And look at me, I love this story. I don't know if you've ever heard this look, quick story was there was two Yogi's on one side of a river. And one Yogi said to the other look what I can do any levitated across to the other side. And then the other Yogi just walked across the bridge. And he goes, isn't that impressive? He goes, it is, but you spent 30 years learning how to do that, where I just walked across the bridge. Those are the kind of in that beautiful, it's kind of that the traps of like, if you're going after levitation, or yogic powers, if you're met, that's not the point of it all. It's just kind of noise traps really, at the end of the day.

Satpal Singh 27:21
Completely. And one of the things that I find interesting is almost all the spirit of spiritual dive dialogue that's out there these days, is all about the self and self discovery. And some of the masters will tell you that there are traps there, where if you keep focusing on the self, and I am and I am this and whatever, whatever is at the end of that statement that says I am, at the end of the day, if there's still an I Am, it's a trap, it's an ego. So one of the very interesting things about the the Sikh spiritual tradition is it takes the complete opposite approach. So the whole tradition of the Sikhs is I am nothing, everything is you and it just kind of looks out to the universe and says, it's all you and the tradition is about falling in love. And having a real sense of devotion to the totality of it all looking at the oneness, looking at the oneness of life, the spirit of life, whatever we want to call it, and the whole focus is about you, this is you, this is you, this is you. So every person that you see, you see that divine spirit, you say this is you and you go as far as even saying, this is you even I am nothing my my body is you, my mind is you Everything is created is a creation of the universe, I am absolutely nothing. So it takes a completely opposite approach to that of self discovery. And while they may may seem like two very different parts, ultimately they get you to exactly the same destination which is dropping of the self just letting go of any sense of self importance. And the way that the Sikh tradition does it is it's all about you. And it's it's it's uses mantra, it uses wisdom words, it uses song, and it's just constantly praising. So we're living in a world now where you can have very detailed conversations about your political views, and your ideologies. But as soon as you mentioned the word God, it's almost like the worst thing that you can bring up, you know, in the office or or, you know, talk to me about anything, but don't talk to me about God. And God has become such a I call it a swear word. It's become such a thing that you trigger you can talk to people about, but actually, in doing that, we're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater where we don't. We don't understand what this God thing was. And you know, and understandably, there's so many atrocities that have been created in the name of God. And so many you know, we started this conversation around people who just believe in something and want to fight to the death to defend their beliefs. And so we've, there's so many terrible things that have happened in the name of God that now society as a whole is just shunning that whole idea. And you come across a spiritual like mine, where God is a central theme, except it's not a Mr. God, it's not an old man with a white beard in the sky. It's actually just the oneness. It is the universe, it is the Spirit of life that's within you, and also within me. And if you can, you can let go of some of these ancient outdated ideas of God, it's actually a very beautiful tradition to just have this outpouring of love towards everything, because you see the sameness in them that you see in yourself. So if you have friends, and you have people that you love, it's that same energy that's in everything in the sky, in nature, in trees, in, in the people that you don't like, it's that same essence that that's in all of them. And, and so, if you can try and start to understand what was really meant by this God, it wasn't some kind of father figure. It's really just something bigger, that we're all connected with.

Alex Ferrari 31:13
Right. And from speaking to so many near death experiences, I've I've heard the common theme that love, love is what's on the other side, waiting for us an immense amount of unconditional love. And almost, I think every single one I've spoken to probably 30 or 40, at this point, if not more, have said that as a common theme. And they're just oneness and that there's connection with every other soul, and you can hear it instantly think and feel it. It just throws away this illusion of separation that we live in. And it is all about connectedness. It's all about oneness. And that's what all the great masters have said throughout the centuries, it's, it's pretty remarkable where we're, we're hopefully we're going to be going to

Satpal Singh 32:01
Yeah, I hope so I think for me, oneness is such a fundamental idea. And it goes so much deeper than just, we're all part of the same thing. Or we should kind of look towards our similarities rather than our differences. It's so much deeper than that. And it's, it's so true that ultimately, we are all part of the same thing. i The analogy that that sticks out, in my mind is many waves or belonging to the same ocean. And when you see it in that way, it's so obvious. We're all part of life. And it's just when you start to change terminology, I think, you know, for a lot of times people struggle with the word God. And that's why I tend not to use it that much. For me, oneness is a much more appropriate word. And even that people kind of get confused by and how I like to explain it is, well, let's just replace it with the word life. Are you and me part of life? Say yes. Does life exist within me? And does that same life exists within you? And you say yes. And is life everywhere? You say yes. And so if you just learn how to kind of overcome some of the old languages that are around and start to see that there is a fundamental truth underneath all of that stuff, you start to uncover the there's a real beauty towards all of these various spiritual traditions. And like you said, many people have ultimately come to the same point where it's just a fulfilling, loving, compassionate experience. And you start to dissolve your sense of separation and separateness from everyone else. You can just see it so clearly. Oh, we're all part of that same one life that same lifeforce. You know, to quote, the quote, Yoda and Star Wars, the force, you know, it's, it's here.

Alex Ferrari 33:55
No, I mean, and I do believe that that's one of the reasons why that movie in that that whole story resonated so much because he grabbed from every great spiritual tradition and really brought down this concept of oneness, the force, it flows through all of us. It's, you know, not to go off in a geeky standpoint, because everyone knows me, I literally have a little Yoda behind me. So, but it is, it is very power. That's how powerful storytelling can be. And I've, I've had people tell him I've, I've had people who know George Lucas, who told me they want to create a religion around the force, and George is like, no, no, you've lost the point of what I was trying to do all I know there is no religion. It's a story. It's it's it's the meat and potatoes of society. These things don't don't please don't go there. So he always watches it as much as he can

Satpal Singh 34:54
One of the things I love to do is look out for spiritual messages and meanings within Movies. especially. And you know, again, when you understand it, and you've read enough about it and, and you kind of have have experienced enough, you can see them. I mean, for me there was there's a beautiful movie that came out, I think only a year or two ago with I think it was a Disney movie called Soul. Yeah, and at the end when he just sees this kind of leaf falling, and he remembers just tasting this pizza, and that is the experience, it's just being present in that moment. And it's such a heartwarming movie, to see real spiritual messages, very complex ideas, portrayed in such a beautiful, simplistic way for children. And it's like, wow, that you know, this thing, these things are still there all the time, the matrix, there's so many different things that are out there. And it's wonderful to see ancient spiritual wisdom still kind of coming out in so many different ways, and especially through storytelling and movies, which I know is a big part of your life.

Alex Ferrari 36:03
No without question. Now, so many of us. And so many of us, every single one of us that's alive goes through struggles in their life. How can you can you connect why we struggle in life to our own spiritual growth? How is it related?

Satpal Singh 36:21
In the Sikh tradition, there's a very simple understanding of suffering. And it is anytime that you want something different to the present moment, then you're in suffering.

Alex Ferrari 36:35
Extremely interesting. So any, okay, so that's, it's making my head hurt a little bit. Because I've gone I'm going down and processing that comment. It's so simple, but yet profound. So the moment that we're in right now, you and I are having a very lovely conversation. But the second, I want something that's not happening right now, like I'm like, what I really want him to to is this, he's not doing this. So now I suffer is that an example that?

Satpal Singh 37:07
That's an example of what we do. And every moment and every moment, you'll notice that you're just not able to stay still. And your mind is always looking for some way to improve the present moment, rather than a way to enjoy the moment. And it's a habit. It's what your mind is doing all the time. And I take the simple example of when you're in the grocery store, and you're standing in a queue waiting, waiting to pay at the tail. And the the thoughts that are going through your head is that's got that guy's got too many things in his basket, I've only got one thing I should be quicker than him. Look at how many empty empty tails there are, why can't they open up another tail, and your mind is doing that all the time and you're suffering. And you learn through spiritual guidance, that that's just thoughts, then you don't have to believe them all the time, you don't have to follow that train of thought, you can actually jump off that train of thought and just enjoy standing in the queue, holding your groceries waiting to pay. And it's you can start to learn how to do those things. And suffering is literally just wanting something different. And the absence of suffering is to just be in a total state of acceptance, life is flowing. And you've just got to go with that flow.

Alex Ferrari 38:25
Have you ever experienced in your life where things were going? Just wonderfully? Things were on track? Everything was great at home, your business is doing well, you're spiritual. And then a thought pops into your head that says, What if this all goes away? Or what if John does this tomorrow? Or what if Sally does that tomorrow? And but everything at the moment is as beautiful as you can? It's picturesque. But your mind automatically starts to think about things how we can all come crashing down. How can you or do you have any advice on how to kind of eliminate that deal with that? Because it never, no matter how quiet that ego gets, it could just sit there dormant. Yeah, weeks, months, years, and then all of a sudden, pops right up when it sees a moment of weakness do we do agree?

Satpal Singh 39:25
Completely. And for me, these things are happening every day. There's always a time when my mind can come up with a scenario where it wants life to be better or it starts worrying about the future. Or if you've got nothing to worry about. You start reliving, reliving painful memories of the past just it just starts coming back back up again. And I find myself or my mind doing that all the time. And the only thing that I'm now able to do slightly better is I'm able to catch when the mind is doing that. and sometimes you catch it and you realize, oh, my mind is playing up again and you're able to let go of it. But sometimes there are thoughts that are so that that really kind of pinch a deep part of you like a deep rooted desire that you haven't been able to let go of. And that thought lingers, and it lingers for days, and it lingers for a long time. And the way that I've been able to overcome some of that now is, is I just asked myself a very simple question, which is, hey, are you enjoying this feeling right now. And as soon as I asked myself a question like that, I realized, Oh, I'm, I'm going down this kind of deep, dark hole that I don't want to be in that I've been in before. And I think you have to suffer enough times, in order to realize I don't want to go down there again. And when you can start to see the telltale signs of suffering and depression, and those things start coming up, you quickly start to backpedal and take your steps back, because, you know, if you enter to entertain those ideas further and further, if there's only one deep dark hole that it's gonna take you down, and I've been there, I've been in places where, for weeks I've just been in, in a mental rut. And like you said, there's nothing actually wrong with my life. But your mind is just gone down this, this rabbit hole. And it's only when you've gone down quite a few times that you realize, either I catch it, before it goes too deep, or I just let it go. And that's where a daily spiritual practice is so important, because it's it's, it's that thing that just kind of lifts you out again, and a daily meditation, daily access to spiritual wisdom, whatever your tradition is, having those constant reminders is the thing that kind of keeps you afloat, otherwise, you will drown very quickly.

Alex Ferrari 41:57
It is really truly all about perspective. Because you know, one person if I gave you, you know, in here in the States, somebody just won a billion dollars at a lottery. Literally $1 billion. It took home that was take home, they want 2 billion, took home a billion, because they said hey, why not? And that there's people I know who go, you just won the lottery, the taxes. First thing comes out of their mouth. Now I gotta pay taxes, as opposed to, oh, how many people can I help? Or oh, my God, I could build generational wealth for my family. Or I could build a foundation, I could. Taxes. Now everyone's gonna want money from me, I'm gonna lose my whole like, it's, it's, it's one thing, but two different perspectives. The winning of the lottery is neither negative nor positive, it just is. But the perspectives are so different. I always use the example of a car crash. When people ask, don't believe me, I go, well, in a car crash, the person who got into the accident, like this is the worst day of my life. Oh, my God, I'm okay. But now I gotta get this taken care of my insurance, all this stuff. And then you go over to the mechanic is like, Great day got some more work, same accident, two different perspectives. So there is no real innate, good or bad in things that happened like that. Because, you know, it's just is, it's how we, we throw attachments, and three perspectives on it correct.

Satpal Singh 43:31
You said, it's really wonderful to hear you speak because you're literally saying a lot of the things that I that I talk about. And it's wonderful to hear that as well, you use a very key word, which is attachments. And that's one of the things that we don't really look into that much. Yet spiritual traditions, do point to recognizing your attachments. Because ultimately, when you see something as good or bad is all about what you're attached to. If you're attached to a particular reality, then you will always see things as as how they're going to affect that. And, and we do this with everything where we're attached to our bodies. We're attached to our families, we're attached to staying alive. We're attached to so many things. And what an attachment really means is the way something is I don't want it to change, I want it to stay exactly like this. Or we're attached to an idea that says what's happening right now I want something else. So you can be attached to many different things. And when you start to realize that it's not what you're attached to, that you have to address, but it's the very nature of attachments, which is I want life to go my way. And if it doesn't go my way, then then something's gone wrong. And when we start to realize that if you can just live in harmony with whatever is happening, you know, a conversation that happens in the UK on a daily basis that everyone looks outside of the well, the window and starts complaining about the weather. And I remember coming from India as as a young child and coming here and just noticing people's conversations around the weather. And, you know, you switch on the TV, and they don't even the weatherman on TV doesn't say, it's going to be a rainy day, they start using negative words, like it's going to be a gloomy day, it's going to be a miserable day. So they're giving you an emotion to something that's just a natural phenomenon, which is rain, that they they're actively training you how to think and and what you realize is, we are so conditioned by the people around us, that train us to think in certain ways that they these things just become automatic behaviors. So you know, I'm not surprised if there's somebody who wins the lottery. But because they've spent so much time just living in misery and thinking about things from a negative perspective, it's not actually their fault. It's just a trained response for them to go immediately to the negative. And I think that's what spirituality is trying to do is you're always recognizing your own mental behaviors, and then taking a step back from them and saying, is this how I really want to react? Is this who I really am? Or can I choose to react in in a more enlightened way? Is there a better way to look at this situation,

Alex Ferrari 46:27
And what you said is so, so profound, because programming is what we all have been. It's all all of us have been programmed. From the moment we were born, we were programmed by our surroundings. You know, the scientist Bruce Lipton talks about the first seven years, like, that's when the programming is, is that's when the, the software is being designed for the mainframe that has been brought in. And then he goes, You spent the first seven years being program you spend the rest of your life trying to deprogram yourself. And it's so, so true. Because if you were brought up in a certain religion, that's the programming in a certain society, that's the programming a certain culture, that's the programming and doesn't, it's not your fault. It's what you were born into. And then we can go into deeper spiritual concepts of being incarnated into that specific, that specific path, because that's what you want to to learn and all that kind of stuff. But it is a program. And if you understand that your instincts are programs, you have to learn how to reprogram yourself, right?

Satpal Singh 47:34
Completely, I think Guru Nanak would argue that you are constantly being programmed. And in order to change your output, you need to have a real thought about what the inputs are. And he uses this word sanggup, which literally means those who you surround yourself by and your there's an old Punjabi saying, Jesse Sangha Tesira, angered, which means the people you surround yourself with, change the color of your life. And so if you want your life to be different, you've got to change those surroundings. And that doesn't mean just that, you know, the, the one negative member of your family who you don't want to spend, spend any time with, because we're being programmed, literally by the media that we follow, we're being programmed by the people who we choose to follow on social media. If you're constantly looking at images of people who have fancy cars, and are going on great holidays, and are always wearing designer clothes, well, well guess what your your, your view of life is going to be that my life is not like that. It's not as perfect as them. And so those who you surround yourself with start to impact your programming, and every day we are being influenced, and if we can just choose who our influences are. So for me, you know, I always have this kind of running thing with with my family where, where I'm always trying to maintain my weight and, and for me, the one of the things I started to do on Instagram was I would follow people who were, you know, fitness gurus or whatever. And what am I doing in that scenario, I'm making an active choice that says I want my life to, to beat my health to be better. So I know that I can't do it on my own. So I'm going to constantly be reminded of some of these priorities in order to kind of live a healthier lifestyle. And when you follow spiritual teachers online, what you're doing is you're choosing your programming, you're saying I don't want to be bombarded with these messages, because that then impacts how I how I live my day to day life. I'd rather be exposed to these teachings on a day to day basis. And so those teachings and those programmings they are so that they literally are the thing that that that will change your life chain, change the people around you change your influences, and you will change your life. It's As simple as that,

Alex Ferrari 50:01
I couldn't have said it better myself, I find that is very, very true you are, it's like the old thing grandpa used to say, You are the people you surround yourself with. And it's when you're a teenager, you're like that old man doesn't know what he's talking about. But as you get older, you go, Oh, yeah, that I almost went down the wrong path because of these idiots. Or you surround yourself with really good people like, oh, god, look, I always tried to surround myself with people who are a level or two above me in whatever business or anything, so I can learn. If you're the smartest one in the room. It's not a good thing.

Satpal Singh 50:39
You're in the wrong room,

Alex Ferrari 50:40
You're in the wrong because you can grow. And I've been part of masterminds growing up. In my business where I was like, at the beginning, I was here, but the by a year later, I'm like, they're all just asking me questions. Because I'm doing I'm like, I need to get a new room.

Satpal Singh 50:57
And that becomes hard, where the people who you grew up with your old high school friends, there's expectations on you and family members, and there are expectations on you, hey, he thinks he's better than us, he doesn't turn up to the family events anymore, or he doesn't want to hang around with us anymore. And it's an it's an it can be really difficult because it's not that you don't want you see yourself as better than them. You're just trying to find what's better for your life. And you're you're just being very clear that this is no longer good for me. And it's very hard to break some of those ties, because you don't want to disappoint anyone, you don't want to be the black black sheep of the family. But at the end of the day, sometimes there are people around you and there are things around you that that is just not good for you anymore. And you know, you're absolutely doing the right thing by looking up and seeing who's who's who's a couple of steps ahead of me, who's where I want to be in life. And how do I surround myself with that? How do I learn from from those people, as opposed to the people who are dragging me back down again, and only want to gossip and, and argue and, and kind of keep you in your old bubble. And that's sometimes things that we're trying to break away from

Alex Ferrari 52:10
The crab in the bucket, there. It's a crab in the bucket, people that just keep pulling you back down into the bucket. So they can you can live in their misery, where anytime I've ever known people who are a few steps ahead of me, it gives you an example of oh, I can get there too, because here's an example of someone else who's gone there. And that's what all the spiritual masters have done. And all the spiritual masters have said, like you, too, can follow what we did in our teachings, or what we've discovered along the way to get to, hopefully your own top of the mountain, if you will. Now there's, there's another thing that always comes up in my show, a lot of questions I get asked by the audience is finding purpose in life, that's such a powerful thing. Because if you don't have purpose, or don't have a mission, that you really are conscious of, you can be lost for decades, I was it was last for a long time, till I started to find my path. I was like, oh, so I, I enjoyed this. This is what I feel this is good. I'm helping people this is I think this is where I need to be. And then you find this enjoyment in life. And you're like, Okay, I have a clear path now. It's not as muddy. What would you what advice would you give to people who are lost right now in the forest, trying to find their way to the path that they're supposed to be walking in this life?

Satpal Singh 53:38
I've questioned my own life as to whether there is one purpose. You know, we like to, you know, there's a lot of cliches that are out there on social media that you know, follow your passions or follow your purpose. And to me, I look at it slightly differently, which is can I learn to be in peace, no matter what I'm doing? And sometimes there's a very clear answer, which is no, I mean, I used to have a career in it before. You know, before I was doing what I'm doing now, before I was teaching, and in it, I was successful. I was earning a ton of money compared to what I'm earning now. And on the outside, everything looks perfect. But I would go to work every day and I'd realize what am I doing what what is this work that I'm doing? What Why do I wake up every morning just just to do this? And sometimes there are very clear answers that says no, this is you're meant to do something else. And you have to just kind of follow that you know and trust that there is something deeper inside that that's kind of pointing you in the right direction. But the difficulty comes when what happens when you go down that path when you think you're following your purpose. And it doesn't work out. There's always is going to be possibilities, there's always going to be times where you think your purpose is one thing and life just meanders and finds its own way. And I think that the older I'm getting, I'm beginning to realize it's easy to be miserable, whatever you're doing, and it's very hard to actually try and find peace in, in just be grounded in various scenarios of life. And I think for me, I'm, I'm trying to just find peace in day to day living, and not necessarily worry about what my purpose is because it can change. You know, right now I've got two young kids, my purpose is to be at home and be with them. And in a couple of years time when when they say, Mom, Dad, see you later, we, you know, we're gonna live our own life, then our purpose, my purpose might be something completely different. I might decide at some point that my life is you're not I've done enough of the work that I'm doing right now. And I want to follow something else. So I think it's about having flexibility, and trying to find a way to be peaceful, no matter where life takes you, because sometimes life has a way of taking you to places that you can never imagine.

Alex Ferrari 56:06
I couldn't agree with you more that was such a beautiful way of saying, and and I've never heard it put that way. But you're absolutely right, that there are multiple purposes in our life, depending on the stage of life you're in. When you're a teenager, you have, you know, many purposes. If we look back, it's like to stay alive, essentially. Because of the insanity that we used to do to ourselves. But, you know, I had my first career as a filmmaker, and being in the film industry. And that was my purpose at that moment. And I found much joy and peace in that purpose until I didn't in the way that I was doing it. So had to find other ways. And then podcasting, for God's sakes, came into the picture. And all of a sudden, oh, well, is this my purpose that okay, then a spiritual podcast, really, is this my purpose, though, so it's just constantly shifting. But throughout that those shifts in life, you have to find peace, during the process that it's taking you through, because you might have an ultimate purpose, but it might take you 20 or 30 years, it might take you two, six, look at Colonel Sanders over here didn't start Kentucky Fried Chicken till he was in the 60s, you know, and arguably, that was his purpose in this give us greasy, greasy chick, and tasty, greasy chicken. But it's just an interesting point. Because you're right. You can't know what your purpose is a five, not most people. And you're going to be miserable until you find that you find peace in the moments. And if you're not happy in those moments, start to discover where where you are going to be happy. And it might be leaving this job and might be leaving it like you said it. Making a lot of money, but I'm not happy. I want to go here now. Oh, I have kids now. I want to find a job that I can do at home and still fulfill my purpose. It's always constantly shifting, but the path is, it's just finding the path, whatever that path is, in the way keeps turning and twisting. Correct?

Satpal Singh 58:12
I think it's about finding peace, whichever path you're on. I think that's what I'm trying to do as my purpose. Like, forget whatever else I do in the world, can I learn to be happy and peaceful in, in my day to day life. And that that's, that's, that's a big enough challenge in life, let alone anything else that you try and achieve, can you because outwardly you can achieve so many things, but how many people are are truly happy and truly peaceful? And not many, even the you know, I would argue even the billionaires and some of the richest people in the world may not necessarily be the happiest people in the world. And so we need to we need to just kind of changed the dialogue around what purpose really means. And I think to me, it's not about achieving something, doing something. It's almost not about the destination. It's about the journey. It's about how did you wake up every day? How did you live every day every moment? You know, I I love this phrase that we all want to rest in peace. But that only happens when you know how to live in peace.

Alex Ferrari 59:19
Oh, that's beautiful. That's that's that's a t-shirt, sir. That is beautiful. You should put that as merch and you should start selling that. That's absolutely, it's perfect. That's such a great thing. Because you You're absolutely right. We need to learn how to live in peace. And that is one of the biggest problems we have as a species in general. Now, we were talking a little bit now about our purpose. And in you spoken about the universe, kind of bringing you to where you want to be like, I promise you when you were 20 something if someone told you you'd be doing this, you'd be like you're absolutely mad. If someone would have told me that I would be doing a podcast as a full time job. I'd be like, what? It makes no sense. So we never really know where we're going in many ways the universe, another power, higher power source, whatever is guiding you. Do you have any advice for people to surrender to that force? So render to the guidance that if you look back far enough, you start to realize there was there's somebody's hand something pushing you in directions, that makes no sense to you at the time. But looking back, you go, she's got that happened. Oh, my God, like, It's all perfect. It's all lined up perfectly. How do you surrender to that without giving away your quote, unquote, free will? Which people are like, I have free will i No one's gonna control me. That's ego. How do you surrender to a higher power in a healthy way, while still doing work, because you still wake up every morning, and you do the work. But the outcome is kind of like you let go for the universe to take you where you need to go. Correct?

Satpal Singh 1:01:05
I think surrender is, is one of those things that is easy to say, but very difficult to do on a day to day basis. And you know what, one of the conversations that I have with the elders in my family is they very easily like to surrender to some of the big things in life. Like, they say, Hey, we don't know how long we're going to live or who we're going to marry. And the big, big things, we leave it up to the universe. But the small things I control, if I wake up in the morning, and I want to make a cup of tea, or a cup of coffee, that's my decision, but I don't do the big things. And what I've begun to understand surrender as just allowing life to flow in whatever direction is going to flow. And the analogy that works very well for me, is you see these nature documentaries of this fish that's trying to swim away from the stream. He's trying to go upstream when the rivers going the other way. And I think that's a little bit like how we live our life, we're always trying to go in a different direction. We're always trying to change something. And the moment we're able to just let go and surrender and just flow with the with the flow of life, we realized that ultimately, life was going to take us down this path anyway. And when we can start to become comfortable with the ever changing nature of life, with the ever changing nature of this moment, when you can set no expectations for this moment. That's what I'm beginning to now understand as being surrender, just set no expectations. Whatever happens, I'm okay with it. You know, Jai Krishna Murthy has an amazing mantra that he used in his life, which was I don't mind what happens. When that's just a such a profound statement. At every moment, I don't mind what happens. And again, very easy to say, very difficult to do. Because you're always creating these mini expectations in life, you know, you're driving to work, and there's traffic where you didn't expect it and just notice your emotions. Or notice your emotions. When you're five minutes late to something and you're screaming at the kids quit, get in the car, get your jacket on, get your I told you to do this 10 minutes, all that sort of stuff. And you realize, oh, I really have a long way to go. But when we can start to practice. And that's why for me personally, why mantras are so important. You know, just having phrases, wisdom phrases, that you remind yourself, I don't mind what happens, I'm gonna let go, everything is good. Because everything is God, whatever it is that your your mantra is, allow yourself to just become comfortable with letting go and seeing wherever life takes you right down to the small things. So you wake up in the morning, I don't need to have a fixed routine about my life needs to be this way, you know, if you if you wake up every morning, and you have to have a coffee, what happens the one morning when the coffee machine is broken, then your emotions are all over the place. Whereas if your mantra is, I don't mind what happens. I'm just going to see where life takes me. I'm going to see how the movie plays out today. And I'm just going to take it as an exciting opportunity to see how the movie is going to unfold today, the story of my life. And I think the way that you you start to do that is when you start to see life as not your story, but just the story. If it's your story, then then you're the director, you're the actor, you're the controller. Whereas if it is just the story, then it's just interesting to see how life unfolds.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:40
Why did you have to bring my coffee into this? I mean, there was no reason to bring in my morning coffee. I got very upset inside when you said the machine broke.

Satpal Singh 1:04:49
I think we're the same we have the same reactions. I think

Alex Ferrari 1:04:53
When you said that there was something in my head right when I went to my machine my coffee maker I was like okay, He's gonna be a fight tomorrow. Public. Wow, wow.

Satpal Singh 1:05:05
And that's what our mind does all the time, it creates these mini expectations about how life needs to be. And when, when anything happens that isn't quite matching our expectations. That's what suffering is suffering is how much life deviates from your expectations, and how much you're you're you're not willing to let go of those expectations. And, and peace is the opposite of that. You just flow you place no expectations on life. And you know, I think, you know, maybe to some of your listeners who are who are listening at this point, they can say that all sounds good in theory, but how do I do it in day to day life? I have no expectations. So when I tell my kids to, you know, pick up their plates at the end of the meal? Am I supposed to just be okay with them? Just saying, Mom, Dad, I'm not going to do that today. You clean it, you know? Where do we draw the line? And I think for me, there isn't a real hard and fast answer to that. You've got to decide how that works for you. All I know is time and time again, whenever I've got gotten upset whenever life has gotten me down, I'm able to ask myself this question, what expectation Did you set for this moment? There's a brilliant example that I that I've noticed in my own life. So I do the school run, where I'm dropping the kids to school every day. And every day, the experience is different for me. Some days, I'm driving to school, and I think, Wow, what a privilege. I get to spend this one to one time with my kids Isn't life amazing. On other days, they're screaming and squabbling with each other. And I'm thinking, Oh, my God, this is terrible. And sometimes there's traffic, and I'm thinking, I'm going to be late for work. And what I've realized is, every day the experience is different. Because I have one expectation, which is everyday, there's going to be no traffic everyday me and my kids are going to be getting along everyday we're going to be having these profound conversations. And I'm thinking, Wow, what a privilege that I get to experience this moment. That's my expectation of the school run every day. But life doesn't work like way, life is different every single day. And when I noticed myself getting frustrated, I asked myself this question, what was your expectation of this moment, and then I remember my expectation was that it was going to be smooth sailing every day. And as soon as I realized that I'm upset, not because of what the kids are doing. But I'm upset because of my expectation of what they should be doing. I can let go of that I can surrender, I can let go of that feeling of life, just enjoy it. Just enjoy whatever life throws at you today. And that's when you can kind of just have a completely different experience.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:46
And it is, I agree with you 100%. But I also think that, like you said, there is a balance at certain moments of things in life. So like when your kids don't pick up their dishes, it's not that you let go of that that's, that's a different thing. Your job as a parent is to teach them. So that teen your expectation is that you're going to teach. And that's pretty much what you got to do. How it reacts, you kind of have to roll with the punches. But that's a different scenario as because that's somewhat in your control, quote, unquote, with kids, it's always quoted. But the traffic is something you have no control over the weather is something you have no control over. You know how the stock market works today is not in your control. So you have to kind of let go of certain things as you flow through it. But it is, it isn't. It's not an easy dance, my friend, it is not a dance. And

Satpal Singh 1:08:42
I don't think it's it's to take anything away from personal responsibility. I think there there is, like you said, as parents, we have a responsibility towards our children. As business owners, we have a responsibility towards our team and our staff. As members of society, we have a responsibility to each other. So it's not that you just take this complete, kind of backseat to life and just say, Hey, I'm not even going to do anything. And I'm just going to go with the flow. I think there is a personal responsibility and it and whenever I talk to people, I always caveat what I say with it's not about what you do in life. If you want to be a parent, you want to control your kids, you want to teach your kids you do whatever you want. I'm actually talking about how you react in life. Your reactions is what I'm more interested in, rather than rather than what you do or don't do in life. So teach your kids don't teach your kids that's up to you. But every time they don't do what you expect. Notice how you react and that's kind of where the spiritual teachings really start to kick in.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:45
I'm telling you, you want to get spiritually enlightened have kids because they are the greatest teachers boy, they will test you in ways that you will I mean, oh my like you like take that glass off the table. Take that glass off the table. Take that glass off it Table, and three days later, it's still on the table. And then later that night you hear crash, you're like, that's why I told you what was gonna happen. And then and then the more the more philosophical conversation is, well, did you create that with your mind because that's you believe that was going to be the outcome, or like, US Shut up. Deal with, to deal with that. Now, I gotta clean up this class before someone gets cut and like, oh, but it's not easy.

Satpal Singh 1:10:33
For me, I tell you that the saving grace for me has always been mantras always been Yeah, little phrases that I have to remind myself every day, okay, this is you're getting frustrated again. Just use your mantras, bring yourself back. Because you have to deal with this situation, no matter what that that's life has presented a situation in front of you, you have to deal with it. The question is, how are you going to emotionally deal with it? Are you going to deal with it in a frustrated, angry, bitter way? Or can you deal with it in a lighter way? Can you deal with it in a higher way? And that's where mantra has always just pulled me out. So in, in Guru Nanak tradition, it's called num, the divine name, what is that? What is the name? What is the word that you use? That pulls you out of that? That darkness the the ocean of fire that it talks about? That you're swimming in every day? What is the thing that's going to take you out and it's the higher wisdom, it's it's, it's, it's something so simple as just a phrase or a word that can just lift you back out again. And for me, that's that I can't tell you the number of times that saved me from from really dark places, you know, if we're honest, you know, as sometimes you know, you're talking about parents and being being parents, being being a kind of spiritual mirror. I always say that having kids brings out the best in you. And the worst in you. Sometimes you can act in the ways that you never thought that you could act or real shout and be and say things and do things in ways that you think Wow, where did that come from? You know, is that how my dad used to treat me all of these sort of things start coming in. And it really can bring out the worst in you. And other times it can bring out the best in you can bring out so much love so much adoration so much beauty. And you think wow, like what it but it's a great metaphor for life. It's it parenting is a great way to look at how life life can throw you curveballs all the time. And what are you? How are you going to react at every time? Are you just going to go down this emotional roller coaster where one day you're high and one day you're really low? Or are you able to find that equilibrium? Are you able to find that thing that kind of brings you back to that kind of peaceful state of mind?

Alex Ferrari 1:12:47
When was the moment in your life when you said something that your parents said to you and you're like, oh my god, I'm turning into my dad, or oh my god, I'm turning into my mom.

Satpal Singh 1:12:58
Oh, when is that not happening? And a lot of the times you realize that some of the ways that you parent is hey, my, my parents used to do exactly the same thing. And you realize that programming, what do you think is right is actually just going down to that programming again, which we spoke about before. And it may not be right. I mean, my wife and I are very different. And sometimes she will do things and I'm like, What are you doing? Why would you do it that way? Why would you say that thing? Why would you agree to that? Or whatever it is. And again, she's acting out her programming. And I have to add my own. You know, I think it's made me appreciate my parents in a way that I never did when I was younger, which is oh, maybe maybe I was maybe I was just as terrible as I was. I think my kids are gonna do to me, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:13:52
We were monsters, sir. Let's just call we were a little monsters. And now we realize though, our parents were saints, I can't believe that they didn't put up with that. They put up with us, they didn't kill us. And that we survived our childhood in general with no seat belts in cars. And smoking and airplanes. We're still alive. It's me as a general statement. Oh, my friend. It's been such a great conversation. I'm gonna ask you a few questions asked all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Satpal Singh 1:14:25
My definition of living a fulfilled life is finding wholeness. I think that every single human being has an inner calling, where they know that something is missing. And we spend our whole life trying to fill this emptiness, this void with stuff with relationships with money with this. And we're all we're trying to do is we know that life should feel hole and we don't know where to fill it or how to fill that hole. We don't know how to find that sense of hole This and I think for me, when you realize that it isn't going to happen out there that I have to find where that wholeness comes from that, to me is what a fulfilled life is all about is just feeling full again, feeling whole feeling complete, where you don't need anything more than what you already have.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:18
You can go on a time machine and go back in time to talk to the little boy he used to be, what advice would you give?

Satpal Singh 1:15:23
That's an that's an amazing question. I think I would tell my younger self, there are so many ups and downs in life, there are so many ways and so many things that happen, where you're going to be tested. And there isn't necessarily a right answer all the time. What you've got to do is find the things that bring you peace. And I think for me, if I had told my younger self, if you don't know what to do in life, always be navigated by peace. Let peace be the thing that kind of takes you home, because that's where you're truly going to feel contented and unsatisfied. Don't worry about what other people do. Don't worry about what other people say. Or sometimes in life, when you don't know what the right decision is. The right decision is always the most peaceful one. And I try and guide my kids in that way as well. When they asked me what do I want to be in life? I say just be happy, be peaceful, find that. I think that would be my advice to me today. To me.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:30
Today, I would say that's always how do you define God?

Satpal Singh 1:16:36
You really saved the big question. To me, God is like the electricity inside a light bulb. It's without that electricity, we're nothing. It's the thing that keeps us alive. It is aliveness itself. And if you can just realize what a privilege it is, that you are alive, then you start to not want to chase too many things in life aliveness itself is my God. And it is such a wonderful gift to just be there just be in this moment to just be present, to be able to recognize that God is that which is happening right now, in this very moment, this conversation is God, the wind blowing through the trees is God. It is just the isness of life itself. And if you can just stop your mind from going somewhere else and just bring it into the present moment and just look around, you begin to see, God is what is happening in this very moment. All the good and the bad. The ups and the downs. God is the totality of it all. And all you have to do is just open your eyes and see it all around you.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:57
And the easiest question of all what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Satpal Singh 1:18:05
To feel whole, to feel full, and to live every moment in its fullest. And I don't mean that in the sense of Carpe Diem, which is just take every opportunity to go do a skydive or a bungee jump. But what is the fullest way to live every moment? Are you in fullness and wholeness in this moment when you're just eating your food or going for a walk or having a conversation? What is the fullness of this moment, as opposed to your mind always trying to find a better way to this? And I think if human beings can just learn how to have that sense of peacefulness and fullness and wholeness at every moment. The world would be in such a beautiful, better place than it is right now.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:58
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world.

Satpal Singh 1:19:03
YouTube, mainly, I run a nonprofit organization called Nanak Nam, and we provide spiritual education and we try and make ancient spiritual wisdom available to everyone. And we are on on YouTube and all the social media channels just go and look for Nanak Nam. And we also have a website with courses that I've created completely for free. There's no charge. And it's called Living with wisdom. So you can google living with wisdom and you can find a lot more information and stuff that's just that's just there for free. And I hope people do

Alex Ferrari 1:19:40
And you have any parting messages for our audience.

Satpal Singh 1:19:43
The very fact that you are one of the few people on the planet today that's even listening to wisdom like this is puts you in a in a very special place. You are extremely privileged to have access to this wisdom and Your role is to just gain as much of that as possible really drink it in really realize the privilege that it is to have spiritual wisdom in your life and share it with as many people as possible. Don't look down on others don't try to change other people just share. Just like if you've tasted a beautiful fruit or if you've listened to a wonderful piece of music, your natural impulse is to want to go out and share that with the world and share love, share kindness, share peace, and you'll have it returned to you in abundance.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:35
My friend, thank you again, so much for this amazing conversation. We have to have you back on the show in the future, because I know I can talk to you for at least another six or seven hours. So I appreciate you so much for not only being on the show, and for this amazing conversation, but for everything you're doing in the world to help awaken us all. So thank you my friend.

Satpal Singh 1:20:52
Thank you, Alex. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me.

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