For 20 years, Rose Thornton enjoyed a national reputation as an expert on old houses. The author of nine books, Rose has been featured on everything from PBS’ “History Detectives” to BBC Radio. In 2016, her husband committed suicide and two years later, Rose was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness.
After a “routine” medical procedure, Rose bled to death. In heaven, she was told that if she agreed to return to earth, she’d be restored to wholeness. Subsequently, medical tests affirmed that not only had the disease disappeared, but she was also healed of the crippling grief.
Please enjoy my conversation with Rosemary Thornton.
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 340
Rosemary Thornton 0:00
I felt myself awakening from what seemed like a deep dreamless state. And man, I was catapulted out of this body and I mean, catapulted, like toast out of a toaster, I went flying off. And I remember thinking, I remember thinking about all those nd ebooks. But also there was just a knowing. And I knew that I had died. And the first words out of my mouth in this new experience where my heart is stopped. And then I thought, How do I know that? I don't know. But I know. That's right. And I was floating away in blackness, a lot of people say, could you see your body? No, I couldn't see my body. And I really think that's God's mercy.
Alex Ferrari 0:45
I'd like to welcome to the show, Rosemary Thornton, How you doing Rosemary?
Rosemary Thornton 0:49
Hi, how are you?
Alex Ferrari 0:50
I'm good, my dear, thank you so much for coming on the show and, and sharing your journey with all of us. So my very first question I have for you is what was your life like prior to your near death experience?
Rosemary Thornton 1:02
That's a really good question. You know, I've done about 75 of these. And I hear pretty much the same questions. But that's a good question. You know, I met him I met my second husband in 2006. And I was so grateful to find him. I had been through a messy divorce had five years of living single and I had some success as a writer. I'd written books on architectural history. And in fact, after our first date, my one of my stories, because I had I had good publicity. One of my stories about one of my new books was written up in the Wall Street Journal, above the fold, no less. No. So I was very proud that it looked like this happened all the time. You know, here's this new young, this new fellow, I'm trying to impress that I say, I was in the Wall Street Journal today above the fold, like, wow. So he and I were married 10 years, and I thought it was a good marriage. In fact, in my wedding vows, I think I thank God for bringing him into my life. The answer to a lifetime prayers, my first marriage had failed after 24 years. And if anyone has been through divorce can tell you that's, that's hard when you put your best energies efforts in person to a marriage in the field. So I really thought Happy Days that arrived really, truly I thought all those hard years were over. And then everyone, nine and a half years of marriage, came home for lunch one day and ended his life. And as a sensitive soul and a writer to say I was devastated would be an understatement. But we had a good life. In fact, there are times that I was prone to sadness, typical creative type, you know, ruminate over everything, think too much all the time. And he would frequently tell me we have a good life, you know, look at all the wonderful blessings we have in our life. And for him to do this. For about two and a half years, I just just lost my mind. And I learned how to in the vernacular of the day, I learned how to mask I learned how to pretend to be fine, because nobody wants to be around somebody who's like, Oh, my life is awful. So I learned how to I liken it to the Romulan cloaking device from Star Trek. Are you familiar with?
Alex Ferrari 3:05
Of course I am. Yes. Well, I mean, look, we all put a little bit of Romulan cloaking devices on all of us most of the time, like, Hey, how are you feeling? Is that Is that how are you going? How are you feeling? is the thing that you say to everybody? You always say fine, but never really fine. Are you generally. So we all put a mask on, but you really had to put on not only a mask, but a performance to really cloak. What was going on inside.
Rosemary Thornton 3:29
That's the right word. It was a performance effect. I'm kind of fascinated Well, I love words. I'm a writer. The word personality comes from the Latin word formask. So our personality is often just something we done to survive in this world. But yeah, took a lot of energy to minute maintain that. And as you know, from the Romulans they can't fire when they have a cloaking device. So that's very true. So much energy.
Alex Ferrari 3:54
You can not attack while cloaked.
Rosemary Thornton 4:00
So I thought we had a good life. So yeah, this this blew things up. And you know, I learned so much. I guess I used to be one of those people that was afraid of the homeless, you see them out. They look unkempt and smell funny. And, you know, they have the scary look in their eyes. And one of the great blessings, if you could say that from this experience was, in fact, just about six weeks ago, I saw a woman not much younger than me out in front of a big Cathedral in central part of Illinois, and she had a sign up and said something like, you know, need a few more dollars for food or something. So I went over to her and I said, my name is Rose, what's your name? And she said, she gave me your name. And I said, Terry, how did you end up here with what's going on? And she said my son killed himself. And I don't know what to do. She said, I used to have a good job. I drove a BMW. I lived in a beautiful house in a beautiful neighborhood. And she said I lost my mind. And I lost my health insurance which is what happens to People like that, and can't even afford a psych ward after that. And she said, now I'm out on the street begging, I don't know what to do. She said, nobody wants to talk to me anymore. And that's what happens, people get tired of hearing the sad stories. But what they found out about trauma survivors is we have to tell the story over and over and over again, typically for two to three years, just just to sort it out in our own heads. So I found that and I gave Terry a little bit of money and told her I would pray for her and I did, but I can't tell you how many homeless people I've encountered. That story begins with my mother killed herself, my husband killed himself, my daughter and killed herself knew that American Psychological Association came up with an assessment that said, losing a close loved one to suicide is one of the most severe traumas a human being can know. And yet, in this country, we don't know how to deal with people. I mean, my husband was a successful professional, I was a writer who had some success, we had lots of fancy friends, had big parties and lived in a lovely home. And after his death, man, those folks were gone. Folks all disappeared. And even now, seven and a half years later, I'm not in touch with one of those people. And yet the people who rushed into the fray, were what we would call the working class. They were the people who didn't have much, but they knew pain. And they had the inner strength, which I think I finally developed. They had the inner strength to deal with somebody with as much pain as I was facing. And that's, that is the blessing, if you can call it that, that comes from experience of this magnitude is you learn what you know, another quick example. I know, this is not what we're talking about. But I ran into I went to a Christmas party travelled 1000 miles to go to a Christmas party with a lonely friend. He was alone and didn't have anyone to spend Christmas with. So I went up there. And after we ate the the hostess, the hostess of this fancy swore a was standing at the kitchen counter, kitchen sink, doing the dishes, and she was sobbing. And I saw everyone gathered around the table was kind of looking at like, what do we do? She's the hostess is up there sobbing. And I looked at her and I thought, Man, I can't watch that. And I got up and I walked over to her and I put my hand on her back. And I said, what's going on? What's wrong? She said you wouldn't understand. I said, Well, I might not. But tell me, you know, sometimes the burden shared has halved. I do believe that. And she said, she said my husband killed himself five years ago. Oh, yeah. Sure. I had no idea. And she said he and I had an argument. And he went out to the front porch and sat down and used a gun. And she said, I can't face holidays anymore. She said, I try and put on these big fancy parties. You know, I make sure all the silverware is just right. But I can't deal and I smiled at her. And I thought it's kind of inappropriate to smile. And I said, oh, golly. I said, I understand better than you think. And I told her my story very briefly, and she smiled. And then before long, I said something perhaps borderline inappropriate to her. I said, these men can really screw you up in the head, can't they? Except they don't I use the word screw. Yeah. Yeah. She laughed. And she said, that's what he did. And I felt so comforted. And then I was able to just you know, kind of hang out with her for a bit. So it's funny how many funnies the wrong word. coincidences are miracles where God chooses to remain anonymous, I think
Alex Ferrari 8:29
Synchronicities, synchronicities if you will.
Rosemary Thornton 8:31
Yeah, yeah. So I know that that was the right place for me to be.
Alex Ferrari 8:36
Wow, that's pretty remarkable. So it seems that so before the near death experience, were you coping? Were you or were you still kind of in that lost space before
Rosemary Thornton 8:49
I had three. That's a good question. I had three daily prayers. I prayed every day because I believe in persistence. You know, the Bible tells the story of the man who comes to came remember, I think it's the judge's house. And begs and begs and begs and begs and won't go away. Actually, it's a woman I think goes to somebody's house and begs and begs and begs will go away. And finally the judge says and desperation. All right, all right. All right. I'll give you what you want. So I'm a big fan of persistence. But I prayed three prayers every day one was I asked God heal me or let me die. I felt dead. I felt like my soul was black, black and out that there was no light left in my soul or my heart. And I just felt like I might as well be dead because I'm dead, mentally and emotionally and spiritually. And then the second prayer was that when I do die, because I knew it wouldn't be long, that there'd be no life review. I had seen what happened to me after my husband's death. And I lost my mind and I was an embarrassment. I humiliated myself in many, many ways. And I saw I said, God, please, when I die, spare me that because I'd been a big fan of nd ease. I'd read pretty much every nd e book I could get my hands on before my experience. And then my third prayer was decision fatigue, there were some legal messes that had to be dealt with after my house. Some stuff and there were a lot of very hard decisions that had to be made involving attorneys and such. So I asked God, spare me these decisions. I can't handle any more. So, in fact, I had a financial advisor, take me aside and she said, So rosemary, where do you see yourself in two years? It's said without missing a beat, I said, I'll be dead. I'm not going to survive this. Back to one point, I went to a family member and said, I'm, I'm dying. And not to be melodramatic, but I'm not going to survive, I'm circling the drain, all either die by my own hand, or I will, I will succumb to something. So I'm not going to survive this. And so many people don't know what to do when somebody says that. So anyway, that's where I was. And I was going out to lunch with friends and you know, pretending. And you know, an interesting thing happened. I was at a fancy restaurant somewhere eating by myself on this particular day, but somebody opened a door to my side, and the wind caught the door, and it's why I'm very, very hard. And it slammed so hard and it startled me. And I jumped up out of my seat. And I yelled, with children around and everybody else around I yelled, what the eff is wrong with you? It's a nobody in particular, but It startled me so badly. And I you know, people were just gaping at me and I, I left my jumped up and ran out of the restaurant was so humiliated by Oh, no, but I was still pretty messed up. And then 29 months into it, I'd had a bunch of physical symptoms, very disturbing symptoms, including some, some bleeding and you know, gynecological problems, bah, bah, bah. And I went to a doctor, and I went to a couple doctors, I showed up to three, and I was diagnosed with cervical cancer stage two, and I said, you know, God, I was pretty clear on this. Heal me or let me go, I meant fast during illness,
Alex Ferrari 11:51
Details, details, you gotta, you're putting the order in, you gotta be detailed.
Rosemary Thornton 11:57
And during a related surgery, somebody made a boo boo. And then I awakened from that surgery, bleeding profusely, it had been a cervical biopsy, and I awaken on the recovery, bleeding a lot. And they told me an RN, I said, Look, something's gone wrong. 59 years old, I can tell you something's gone wrong. I'm bleeding. Once you get home, lay down, you'll be fine. So three times I protest and three times she told me just to go home and lay down. And I did. And once at home, it was getting worse and worse and worse. And I had a friend staying with me. And I told my friend I said, call an ambulance, some bleeding to death. And ambulance game took me to another hospital, a little er, that was actually not connected to a hospital, and they made more boo boos. And, you know, I used to tell this in front of live audiences. And when I would tell the part where they gave me a morphine derivative as a drug you handed it for I don't know why, but they did. Everyone in the audience gasped, because when a patient presents with dropping blood pressure and profuse bleeding, you don't morphine depresses it further.
Alex Ferrari 13:01
Yeah, I was gonna like I even know that like, you know, give someone who's bleeding wants you to get a whole bunch of aspirin while you're at it. I mean, I mean, seriously,
Rosemary Thornton 13:10
That's kind of grease the skids to the afterlife, you know?
Alex Ferrari 13:14
I mean, you want to go faster. Here's some morphine as a slow you're right, it goes right down. Exactly. Wow.
Rosemary Thornton 13:19
And I had never been in an ambulance and I get into the car and this very kind RN about my age is attending to me. And I was so frightened because now I made a decision, okay, I'm, I'm gonna live you know, I've, I've agreed to go to the hospital. And I grabbed this RNs hand and I said, promise me, you're not gonna let me die. And she was so compassionate and so motherly, and she grabbed my hand, she squeezed it and got right in my face very, very sweetly, almost as a mother consoling the child and said, Oh, honey, we're not gonna let you die. We have many solutions for this. And then they gave me the morphine derivative, and away I went. And the thing is, to the onlooker, it was a pretty peaceful passing. And in my experience, what I was experiencing the thing is it after they gave me that Dilaudid I don't know the time my friend was at my side, I'm on this gurney and a little cubicle in an ER. My friend said that after they gave me the Dilaudid, I just passed right out. And you know, the thing about that though, it was actually Dilaudid morphine derivative of the thing about that is I didn't have much blood volume at that point. So that's allotted. And I don't know technically, if I bled to death, or if the Dilaudid was just fine. No blowed my little heart. It's going, I need fluids I need so
Alex Ferrari 14:40
He's giving me morphine.
Rosemary Thornton 14:43
Let's finish her off. But my friend said, he looked at the blood pressure cuff which is, you know, inflating and deflating automatically and the medical staff have left the room and he said at one point it said 35 over 20 or 33 over 25 as my blood pressure, which is mean you We're on your way out. And he stood up to go get help, because I, you know, she's dying. And as he did, my eyes popped open. I don't remember this, but he said, you reached your hands up to heaven. And you know, wiggle your fingers, almost like a child reaching for a parent and said something. And he said, he got up and stood over me and looked right in my face. And he said, You looked right through me. You were talking to somebody that you could see, and nobody else could. And you know, there's a term for this. It's called terminal lucidity. Have you heard of that? Yes. At the very end of life, we get a burst of energy.
Alex Ferrari 15:32
Yeah, there's, I've spoken to a few hospice, doctors who studied and at the end of life, and that just to see what happens to people as they're going, and there's just that moment, they just come up and they'll say something. And if you're in hospice, it's a little bit longer time for that. So they can see what's happening in dreams and people talking and who comes to you and they'll say things. But yeah, at the very moment, you'd like it happens. And then and then you're done.
Rosemary Thornton 16:03
Next, was i i fell back on the gurney, I've been trying to sit up, which is pretty impressive for somebody the blood pressure of 33 over 25. But I fell back on the gurney. And he said, and then you just went real still. And meanwhile, I was having the time of my life. I felt myself awakening from what seemed like a deep dreamless state. And man, I was catapulted out of this body and I mean, catapulted, like toast out of a toaster. I went flying off. And I remember thinking, I remember thinking about all those nd ebooks, but also there was just a knowing. And I knew that I had died. And the first words out of my mouth in this new experience were, my heart is stopped. And then I thought, How do I know that? I don't know. But I know that's right. And I was floating away in blackness. A lot of people say, could you see your body? No, I couldn't see my body. And I really think that's God's mercy. Because I learned later, my friend, the medical staff did come rushing in when they heard the blood pressure alarm going off, and he said they ushered him outside into the wait outside the little room and brought a crash cart in. He said, Actually, it was kind of funny. Their nurse came running into the room first. And he said, she did a sternal rub. Have you heard of that? Where they take their knuckles and rake them over your sternum? Yeah, elicits a pain response. If there's any life at all, you'll you'll wiggle or jolt or something. But he said she did that for a minute and nothing. And he said and then she, she went over to the blood pressure cuff machine and check the plug at the outlet like, well, this thing isn't working. It looks like she's dead. And then, you know, jostled the machine. I'd
Alex Ferrari 17:47
Like you to put some aluminum foil at the top to make sure you got the reception. Well, okay, so Alright, so So other than the ridiculousness that's going on in your room as you're dying, or did what happened when you catapulted out?
Rosemary Thornton 18:04
It was so fun. It was such a great time. I was catapulted very dramatically. And that and that was my first thought was my hardest stop, and then is I'm floating in this perfect blackness. And I hear a lot of people talk about the love, they feel, I would say the predominant emotion I felt was peace. In fact, I, as a writer, I've always had high anxiety, you know, and I do overthink everything and just a little bit nervous all the time. And a little bit neurotic, I might say. And I thought, this is the most perfect peace I've ever experienced. And I thought about that Bible verse, the peace that passeth all understanding. So keep your hearts in mind. So Jesus Christ, and I thought, this is that piece. This is what Paul was talking about is perfect peace that no words could ever describe. So I felt this piece and then my next thought was, you're dying. And then being the ever appropriate writer, I thought, actually, you're not dying, you're dead. Because when you're floating onto your reward, getting the tense right is very important. And I thought that was funny. And I laughed out loud because I thought he or she will are dead. Unexpectedly I might add and dealing with wailing away from your body and dealing with grammar. And the beauty part is I thought it was so funny and I laughed out loud. And I heard my funny little giggle and I thought okay, I don't have breath sounds don't have vocal cords. I don't think I don't know about ears. And yet I'm producing sound and I sound just like I've always sounded and I started life in broadcasting, I might I have a I actually have training in broadcasting so I know what I sound like. And I thought this is great. Everything I am has gone with me my McCobb goofy sense of humor, my silly little giggle the sound of my voice. And I thought what did I leave on that gurney and I realized the fear the anxiety, the worries the Whoa, everything negative was what I left behind and what went with me was me you I really am interesting. So where did you go next? And that was very comforting. By the way. It was very comforting to know that everything I William went with me, this floating went on for some time. And at some point in this blackness as I'm still floating further and further away, and the thing is, I had always had this inherent fear of the dark. And I remember thinking, I'm in pitch black, I mean, you know, kind of came to your hand funny. And I thought I had I'm not afraid. So maybe I'm not really afraid of the dark. And very early on in this experience, I felt a massive presence join me and I mean, massive, and he was he she was to my left and much taller than me. And I turned my head up and look to the left to see him her. And I thought, this is interesting. I'm turning my head to the left to look over my left shoulder. And I thought, so I have some sort of form. You know, I'm not just some ethereal spirit floating away. But I turned it, I'm smiling, because I'm like, wow, this is so much fun. And all these are the ebooks I read. Nobody told me how much fun this is how just good you feel, how happy or how relieved? How relieved. And so I asked this massive spiritual being I said, literally, with a happy smile. I said, and who were you? And the answer was before again, before I could even finish the sentence the question the answer was immediate. You are the image and likeness. I'm the original. I was like, wow, that's Genesis 125 and 26. Yeah, were made the image and likeness of God. My whole life. If I had to have one Bible verse I never quite understood and always wanted to understand better that would be that I think that's what I get. How cool is that? How great is that? There's an original. So this went on, and in some ways, so flooding in this blackness. I felt the presence of what you might call spiritual beings or angels. But it was they were welcoming me home. And it wasn't with words, but it was with a feeling like she's back. She's back. We're so glad you're back. And I could summon up the whole sum up the entire experience. In three words, it would actually be pretty easy, but it would be welcome home, dearie. You know, my whole life. I've been a weirdo and an oddball. I've just been that kid that from the playground, to career life, just different, you know, but it was like these people got me and they were so glad I was back home. So glad. And that was so comforting that I was with my tribe, you know. And it was like, they were saying, we know this was a hard one. But you're back. And I don't know. It's just so so Comforting. Comforting is the word you know, or how Bombeck once wrote an entire essay on the word comfort uncomfortable. She said it's become a word we don't use much. But comfort is the is a great word. So a lot of things happened to me in this experience. One of them was in while I'm still floating away in this blackness, I remember thinking I've I've had this experience before, like, even in this lifetime. I've been through this before somehow. And one of the spiritual beings with me said, Remember, your mom told you, you were given up for dead as an infant, I was three weeks old, and I contracted a disease and the doctors sent my mom home and said, This baby's dead. She's not gonna survive another couple hours. And yet, the next morning, my mom went home and prayed that night and the next morning, when she came back in to a non Catholic hospital, but a nun handed me over to my mom and said, this baby isn't better. She's healed. So the angels in this experience said you didn't almost die that night. You crossed over then, and you were sent back. And I thought, that explains why I've been a weirdo my whole life. You know? I mean, I remember when people would die. And I'd say, oh, did you see? Did you see? Our aunt just walked through, she's gone to heaven, she suffers. And they, my mom, God bless her would say you didn't see that. And you're not going to talk about that anymore. So you learn early on to shut up. You know, you learn early on to be quiet. So this was all kind of explained to me. And I do remember a predominant feeling. Because I was scheduled to start chemotherapy and radiation it was we get this right. It was once a week chemo. And it was five times a week radiation. And I hadn't been in to get the you know the tattoos yet for the radiation. But I was supposed to start the chemo tutorial and then start chemo. And I remember thinking I don't need to worry about that anymore, do I?
Alex Ferrari 24:21
Well, I mean, when you die, it kind of knocks out your itinerary. On Earth without question. So when you're when you're up when you're up there did you Did did? Did the God listen to you? Or did you have a life review?
Rosemary Thornton 24:39
No life review, which was great. And the thing is, I could remember because my background is architectural history, you know, and I had a friend, a fairly good friend who is a licensed architect. And when I showed him the home I was buying on the East Coast. He said oh my god buy that home and I said, why? And he said, well, because there's no way to get a gurney in the front door. It was a cool house had a massive fireplace right by the front door. And he said, There's no way to get a gurney in house. Now I was like, Oh, I'm never gonna need a gurney, you know, blah, blah, blah. Well, I remembered in his death experience, the firemen trying to get a gurney in the house. And they couldn't, they couldn't get it up the stairs and around the corner. But I remembered, I didn't have a life review. But I remember this firemen trying so hard, because I was still conscious when I was taken out of the house. I'm trying so hard to be helpful. And I thought, well, they showed me so much love, you know, total stranger. And I thought about how much love they should. But my predominant feeling really and truly was that I got early release for good behavior, I felt like I'd been somebody open the prison doors and let me out, I did not want to go back. And this, this just went on and on. And I'm gonna write a book about it because it was pretty detailed experience. And then at some point, I'll never the transition. But at some point, I'm no longer floating. But I'm in a white room, and I'm on my feet. Now I'm no longer floating, but I'm on my feet in his perfect white room. And about 15 to 20 feet in front of me is the door. And it was shut. I remember being a little disappointed that the door was shut because I thought hey, I'm supposed to just go through that door. And I that door ought to be open for me. Because I'm walking through this white room and it was perfect white. And I observed that there were no light fixtures, no traditional light fixtures, it was just illuminated from within. Yeah, cuz I'm looking for sconces. But I had a spiritual being or an angel with me at this point. And I asked when there was this mist or fog in the room. And I asked about that it was very, it was not just falling, it was encircling and very busy mist around me and I asked the angelic being with me, I said, I feel like I'd be able to focus on one of the individual droplets. And the angelic being said, your eyes are not acclimated to this new environment yet, so you can't see it. But what you're seeing these are particles of light. And that when we go to heaven, we have to be cleansed of the muck. And that was the word that was used the muck of Earth, which is a word I just don't use much in everyday language, you know, but that the muck and the denseness. And the heaviness of Earth has to be washed. And this was like most akin to a spiritual carwash. And as my friend said, leave your muddy boots at the door. We don't go to heaven with the heaviness further. The other thing that was explained to me very clearly was we have a spiritual identity. And sometimes we get so accustomed to these physical disease process that we think, you know, like, I am a diabetic, I have hepatitis, I have this we identify with a disease and that the purpose of this was to strip that away and say, no, no, no, that's not your identity, your real identity is spiritual Child of God, that's who you really are. And so that's, it's kind of a reminder, and the other thing somewhere is I'm walking because I see that door, and I think, okay, I know the gig. I everybody on my way I'm doing the door, you know, there wasn't like, oh, what should I do? I'm like, clear path. 59 years old, time served, let me out. And as I'm doing that one of the messages that was very clearly conveyed to me. And I don't know if what juncture because, you know, we want a timeline, we want to chronology. You know, this happened first, and this happened in middle This happened in the end. But I N Stein said to those of us who are committed physicist, the past, present and future are only illusion, however persistent. So while it looks to me, like this thing happened, and it isn't this, it's really hard to say, but at some point in that white room, I was told that if I agreed to go, or if I ended up going out, agreed, but if I ended up going back, then I would be restored to wholeness. And it wasn't said that you'll be healed of the grief, you will be healed of this disease, but you'll be restored to wholeness. And, and so I get to the door. And I'm so grateful that I'm at the door and I don't even know about I remember thinking when I'm first in this white room and see the door 15 to 20 feet ahead. I remember thinking I don't know if I have legs, but I know if I have an intention, I can perambulate toward that door, which now cracks me up that I used to work for ambulator you know, I think walk would have done but I didn't know and I'm so disappointed that I didn't look down at my feet, my legs, my hands, see what I look like. But I've heard that from other people have had this experience. So I get to the door. And I got to put my right hand up to move through the door and pretty interested by the fact right handed on Earth and right handed in heaven, you know, so that that's part of my identity. But I paused and I asked the angel that there was with me or spiritual being whatever I said, Is this the divine will for my life. And what I was gonna say is this the divine will for my life that a medical mistake sends me onto my reward. And before I could even get is this the define the answer was again immediate and the answer was no, no, but whatever. You decide, you go with all God's blessings and mercy and grace and love and care. And that was the answer to that third prayer or the second prayer that I can't handle any more decisions. I mean, this is a pretty big decision, decide if you go to heaven, or stay on Earth. And I was told, it's okay. And one of the things one of the takeaways for me on this is if we are trying to do good, if we are trying to do the will of God, we're not going to make a wrong decision. Because even if we take the long way around the barn, you know, we're gonna end up back where we need to be. And it has been such a blessing to me, when I'm faced with a hard decision, I think, Oh, what do I do? What do I do? And I think, just listen, listen to God and the angels. And you're, even if you get it wrong, God can help you navigate out back out to the right path. So that was the answer is no, yeah. But whatever you decide to do, you go with all the blessings. And so I thought, all right, I'm going, I'm done with this earth. I am so over this. Because one of the things about being the suicide survivor, as we are known, is that you become a 21st century leper. Nobody wants to be near you. You're scary. You know, I can't tell you how many people with visitation, walked past the casket, and said, I mean, closed casket, of course, and said things to me, like, I just lay down and die. If anything ever happened to my Bobby, like, Oh, you're right. I didn't love my husband as much as you love him. Got it.
Alex Ferrari 31:31
I know what to say, I have no idea what to say or do or say the wrong thing. We and it's also it's also I've had, I've talked to so many people who've gone through what you've gone through and and also losing children and you know, it, these are pains that you can't quantify. It's something you cannot express or quantify, and people who have children or have a spouse, they automatically go to like what would happen if that happened to me. And then they just get scared, and they have no idea what to say. And then they say something wrong. You know, like what? I was talking, I was talking to a trauma survivor the other day, and he's like, yeah, they would just come in to like, I just get over it. Like if like lads, yeah, like it because they just truly have no arsenal of what to say to somebody who has gone through that. So sometimes, you know, they try. Sometimes it just like, I don't want to deal with you too. Can you just move on?
Rosemary Thornton 32:25
Like, and they're all that. I know. And all that stuff they say became clear to me fairly early on in his process, all that stuff. They say it's for their comfort. All right, themselves comfortable. Yes. And there's a guy who does grief counseling online who lost a beautiful teenage daughter to disease. I think it was a flu or something. But somebody actually said to him, if you hadn't gone if you hadn't given her that cough syrup, she'd probably still be alive. But she's not saying that to comfort him for saying that, because they think oh, I'll make sure I don't make that mistake. And the thing, the one thing I will not answer on a podcast, there's a couple, but one is why did he do this? You know what? Doesn't matter? It's done. He's dead. He's gone. And the India Oh, my gosh, I had one podcast I threatened to disconnect on because he's like, it's important to know. And I'm like, no, no, that's Kim. Oh, wait, he's dead.
Alex Ferrari 33:19
Horrible question to ask my.
Rosemary Thornton 33:22
I'm prepared for it. Now.
Alex Ferrari 33:24
I'm ready. Are you kidding me? That's irrelevant to the to the story. I mean, it truly is irrelevant to this. I'm a filmmaker. So as a filmmaker and a screenwriter, you kind of like, doesn't matter. It's called the MacGuffin. Like, it's like it's just the point. Its point of what moves the story forward in a narrative standpoint. So I would never ask a question like that just as another human be. What are you talking about? So, so you're the rules?
Rosemary Thornton 33:56
Gonna say Yeah, and I get to the door and I'm ready to push through and you know, whatever. You decide to be ritually bless. I'm like, Cool. I'm out of here. You know, you don't have to ask me twice. You pay me to get out of jail card, I would go. Right. And then and then I am shown a scene and to say it was people I tried to call Division I realized people are misinterpreting that like, and I had some dream and heaven. But what happened was, I was in a room like kind of mentally in this a silent observer in a room where this nurse who showed me such kindness is sitting on a little metal stool, and she sounded surrounded by linens and the hospital supplies and everything. She's in this little quiet supply room, and she's leaned forward on stool hit her hand sobbing uncontrollably, and I'm watching this I'm like a silent observer. And it wasn't just a vision. I was in the room with this woman. You know, and this was a potential future. This wasn't happening because they're busy trying to get my heart going again, you know, but she's sobbing and through her tears, I hear her say, I promised that woman I wasn't gonna let her die and I lost her. I was like, Ah, this isn't fair. She looks to be about my age. She's 59. She has lost people before She'll get over it. You know, life goes on. And then, and then I didn't just observe her. But I felt that pain, I guess in the solar plexus that grief that deep, haunting grief and regret and despair and self recrimination, all the rest of it. And I recognize that as same thing I'd felt because the last conversation I had with my husband before he did this was over the phone, we had an argument that he started, which I've learned, by the way for all suicides writers, that's very common. It's like they have to get their angst up to go through with the act. But I felt that same angst with her. And I remember thinking, if I can spare one human being that much suffering, I think I have to go back. And you know, the moral of the story is, God knows as empaths God knows how to get us, you know?
Alex Ferrari 35:53
And I was, so was like, so what happened? So what happened after
Rosemary Thornton 35:56
Oh, cool, is in a millisecond, I was there was no backwards wish there was no, you know, there was no rolling backwards back in that body and that er, and I opened my eyes and like, Wait a second. And I remember being pretty ticked because I thought I died, there was a lot of energy involved to die. And I remember there was an angel on the upper left hand corner of the room, just like a being of light. on us. It sounds crazy, but it's like an energy ball of light. And I could see that angel up there. And I said, mentally, I said to the angel, hey, I believe it was Robert's Rules of orders. We had a first, we didn't have a second. And we certainly didn't have a discussion phase. I don't remember agreeing to this. And the angels just kind of angels aren't really good at answering questions. The angels just kind of looked at me said, Hi, you're back. And very early on, I don't know, the precise timing because I, you know, had bled to death, your brain activity slows a little bit and then doesn't have any blood or oxygen. But, uh, that nurse was back in my face. I think it was the same nurse. But my eyes were open. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And the nurse says, What is your name? And I said, Rosemary. And she said, What year is it? I said, 2018. And she said, where are you? And I said, a crummy excuse for an ER. But she kind of took umbrage at that. And she goes, have you know, this is an accredited facility. So I loaded? That's amazing. Because the thing is the thing that's really close, I was dead. Well, more than 10 minutes.
Alex Ferrari 37:27
And so you were clinically. So you were clinically dead? You were out for more than 10 minutes.
Rosemary Thornton 37:31
And I didn't find out about that on the next day at the hospital where they explained to me, yeah, your heart stopped. So that that was correct. I mean, I have documented medical evidence, my heart did indeed stop. But I was gone for more than 10 minutes. And the thing is, I interviewed to write my book, I interviewed a lot of medical personnel. When when you bleed to death, that so much that you your heart stops beating, because it's just a pump, you know, ran out of fluid, they plug the leak, refill the tank, and restart the heart. That's the order in which they do things. They cannot do CPR on somebody who's bled to death, because it just forces more blood out of the system. So I was well, more than 10 minutes with no blood supply to the brain. So when that nurse said, What is your name, I actually interviewed an anesthesiologist about this, because they have to make they have to doctors often make decisions about bring somebody backwards have been too long. And he cried when I told him the story when the nurse said, What is your name and all that? And I said, Why are you becoming emotional? And he said, You have no idea how relieved the medical staff was when you responded intelligently to their questions. Because when you bring somebody back after five minutes, it's an iffy proposition. You don't know. The belief is that after five to six minutes, there'll be substantial brain death. And there wasn't in fact, I think I got a serious upgrade. As my friend Brian says, I didn't come back as Rosemary v2, I came back as Rosemary v 27. But they loaded me in an ambulance pretty quick. You know, when you died a little er, they can't do like, oh, well, you go get out of here. Yeah. And then in the ambulance, they were afraid I died too. And I was taken to a trauma center. And there I was there for several days. And my friend who observed this, he had been a Vietnam era medic. And he said, Because he didn't see me again till they wheeled me out to the ambulance. And he said, You've heard the expression white as a sheet. He said you were literally white as a sheet and he said, but your lips were dark blue, and under your eyes was dark blue. So it was a pretty profound experience. And then I was at the hospital for several days and they took good care of me and I was sent home and I wasn't really ready to go home because you know, in the hospital, they bring you applesauce and jello and drinks and you say, I think I'd like a cranberry juice now and boy, it's right there. But the doctor came in and that was the other interesting experience after you bleed to death in a big corporate hospital. You get the doctor that's been around a while. You don't get the doctor that you know might make a boo boo here and there. You get the doctor has been around. He was very kind and he's the one who explained to me that they thought I would have substantial heart damage because of the severity of my heart attack, which is technically what I died from was a heart attack. But I said, No, no, no, don't don't worry about that. The angel said, If I agreed to come back, I'd be whole home fine, fine at all. And they'd still really offer all the little tests, you know. And the doctor, I met her every morning, that nice, lovely doctor would sit down at my bedside and say, Mrs. Thornton, you're very lucky woman. There's no damage to your heart whatsoever. In fact, your hearts very healthy, which did not correlate with the first blood tests that showed I'd had substantial heart damage from elevated enzymes. So this went on and on and they sent me home, not because it was time to send me home. But they said my white blood cell count was so low from having blood out that I was, well, the way the doctor explained it, which was very thoughtful. He said, If you pick up an opportunistic infection from the hospital, he said, we won't be able to save you. So it's like, oh, I guess away we go. And then it took some time, I had to find another doctor, I went back to the original oncologist for us was to start the chemotherapy. And he said, You're You're we're having your tutorial on Monday. And then a few days after that, we'll start you on the chemo. You know, a few days after you've recovered from this ordeal, and I said, Well, I actually I was healed in heaven. And I was told if I agree, come back, I'd be healed. And they used to do this portal thing where they make your chart online, make it available online. He put in my chart, I was mentally ill. So I had to go find another oncologist. And another state. oncologist was a lot more interested in the fact that I had bled to death from a cervical biopsy, then I was healed in heaven. It's all good news. But I did want an affirmation. You know, I wanted to be sure. And that second oncologist was very kind and very thorough. And there was another surgery. And she took lots of flesh from a lot of places and had it checked by multiple, what do you call the people who do those biopsies, the lab people anyway, you have to walk people, and even have them present in the operating room and self samples, blah, blah, blah, blah. But she it all came back. In fact, what she told me, she said is not only do you not have one cell of cancer, anywhere that we've looked, she said but your flesh is so pink and pretty imperfect. I wouldn't we've you've ever had cancer had I not seen the original test? Because I don't know if you know, so once you get diagnosed with something like this, there's MRIs with contrast, MRIs without contrast, PET scans, physical exams, and at the first doctor, I mean, the real the thing that started all this is a lot of physical symptoms, a lot of very disturbing physical symptoms. And, you know, I've already had people say all the usual stuff, oh, you never had cancer to begin with? Well, that's not what three doctors said, you know, actually was two doctors in what did they call it a nurse practitioner? It was visible upon examination? And why would three people lie at three different offices, you know? So it's funny people come up with all these excuses. You know, our constraints are the simplest solution is usually the right one. Oh, yeah, people because people can't believe that we're spiritual beings.
Alex Ferrari 43:10
So that brings me to my next question. So I, as you know, I've have spoken to I think, nearly 100 near death experiencers at this point, my show, and a lot of times people, you know, the constant of oh, they were just dreaming, oh, it's some sort of liquid that went off in their head, and you're dying, all this kind of stuff. Or for the skeptic who's watching right now, because you actually are interesting, because one you had admitted to being a near death experience, you know, enjoying those stories. So you add an obscene amount of these stories in your mind already. One, two, you're a professional writer. On top of this, you're unique. I've never had that happen before. So for everyone listening who might be questioning the validity of this experience, what would you say to them? Because you I mean, on a on a logical standpoint, you understand where I'm coming from? Right?
Rosemary Thornton 44:10
I do I do. And my favorite is when people say she's just in it for the money. Of course, she wrote the book.
Alex Ferrari 44:16
Millions, right, you get millions, don't you from the books, millions,
Rosemary Thornton 44:20
These people. I have a co author who wrote a couple architectural books with me. And we repeat that line as laughter so silly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're in it for the money. How much did we lose on that second book? All we lost five grand on that one? That one wasn't too bad.
Alex Ferrari 44:37
That's everyone thinks I have published books. And I know like, you make it look, if you self publish, you make some money. If you're smart, and you have an audience, but no one's retiring.
Rosemary Thornton 44:49
Publish picture books.
Alex Ferrari 44:51
No, no, no, no picture books are way too expensive to publish yourself. So that's the thing. Yeah, people always use that excuse unless your last name is King, Patterson or Rowling, you're not gonna get super rich off of these things generally speaking.
Rosemary Thornton 45:06
The other thing is, you know, the the urine in it for the money. I love that one. Because one I had who was actually involved to mega hospitals corporate on a mega hospitals were involved in the killing of Rosemary. You know, if I was in it for the money, I would have sued them to Kingdom calm, and I probably would have gotten a fair settlement. But I, I chose not to sue because when you sue somebody, you're declaring war on an individual and I didn't want that I wanted to seize. And the second thing when I was being loaded into that ambulance to be transported from the little er to the trauma center, I remember thinking, wow, my whole life I spent reading about nd ease. And this was nothing like any of them. I never heard about a white room now subsequently, I've gotten a lot of emails from people saying, I went to a white room to,
Alex Ferrari 45:58
I've heard, we've had, yeah, we've had a couple of white rooms, but not like yours,
Rosemary Thornton 46:03
But to the scoffers I say, if I was going to write a book about this, I would follow the traditional patterns, I would not come up with all this crazy, you know, not so much love puppies floating away. perambulate white room, I would have stayed truer to the original. And then the other thing, you know, this is just the brain shutting down. I hear that a lot. Okay, when I died, I had stage two cancer visible upon physical exam. When I came back, it was gone. Now that's not the brain shutting down. That's something divine. That's something spiritual.
Alex Ferrari 46:37
And then that's when people say, Oh, well, you didn't have cancer originally. And oh, there must have this. Because it's it's so fascinating. It's fascinating when I because I hear this all the time because of the people interview would I interview near death experiencers channelers in spiritual gurus, and when they talk about miraculous stuff, they people just like they don't know how to talk to you because you're a suicide survivor. The same thing is like they don't know how to talk to you if this exists in the world, because it completely disrupts their paradigm, their programming to the point where like, well wait a minute, if there is a heaven then that means Wait a minute, oh, and and they start shirts, short circuiting. So either they attack you, or they come up with something to make themselves feel better, so they can go to sleep at night. So like I can't live in a world where there are near death experiences. Because if that world exists, that means that there's bigger things in the world, I'm that I'm really not who I am and, and it just starts to spot you start going down a rabbit hole of all of these things that just your foundation is disrupted. So that's why it didn't do that so much.
Rosemary Thornton 47:40
And so one of the things that happened, and I remember this so clearly, I've read multiple places people say when they had an NDE, it was like waking up from a dream when it dies. And that was my experience. When I when I was floating with my body initially catapulted out of my body. I remember thinking, I had 59 years went by in a flash and I was like, This is reality. This experience I'm in now you know, floating away from my body is reality. It really was like waking up from an intense dream. And me that's the best description I can come up with. But the scoffers I've had so many scoffers and I get the emails too. I get either you know spawn of Satan. Oh, obviously
Alex Ferrari 48:22
these demonic demonic Well, that's it that's it. That's a go to your possessed demons were you imagine when I have a channel on the channel, someone live on my show that like that's the devil. I'm like, obviously, it's the devil. He's just talking about peace of love.
Rosemary Thornton 48:39
Right? The fruit of the Spirit. What have I done with my life, I sold off all my personal possessions. I saw I had a fancy new shiny car I bought I sold it. I bought a used Prius. See, I don't know if you're familiar, the Prius. Prius look like a Cadillac is big. I got rid of most of my possessions. Pretty much all my furniture. And I moved 1000 miles due west Midwest because I like to watch corn grow. People laugh at that I put it on my match.com profile. Let's just say my online dating profile. And I like to watch corn grow. I literally love it. You ever really watch corn? It's fascinating.
Alex Ferrari 49:16
It is a faction that sat and watched it but it is a pretty interesting crop from where it starts to where it grows up to pretty quickly. It's pretty awesome.
Rosemary Thornton 49:25
Yes, it is. I mean, take it it's a little itty bitty seed. And it's it's shoved into the ground. You know, it's just trounced into the dirt. And it looks like all hope is lost. And then they give it a little a little fertilizer. You know, they put more poo on it. You know, it's not enough to be trounced in the ground, and now it gets poo on top of it. And then it gets soaked. And then it springs forth. And I just something about corn. I love watching things grow and I'm in love. I mean this thing changed me a lot it changed it. I had a neuroscientist travel from a nearby state ate to meet me and we went out had a lovely dinner together. And she said, the reason she believes my story is not because of, you know, the cancer and it's gone. And it's she said, human beings are not hardwired to change that quickly, the brain just doesn't switch from this way to that way in an instant. She said, But you did something profound happened to you to go from one's deep grief. And the thing I was told in heaven, about my husband's death, and this is probably the most important, which I tend to forget. But I was told that everything that had happened around his suicide, and all that misery had been encapsulated, which is a very interesting word. And that's often what we use in architectural, like if a house has a contaminant, you know, lead paint or other certain ways. Yeah, I don't even like saying the word. But that's what they do, they will often encapsulated because the process of removal can release more contaminants into the air. In some cases, when they tried to do this in school buildings, they have to destroy the school building, because it's just releasing it everywhere. But I was told that this whole misery which is what it was, had been encapsulated, and it was a thing, and it had happened, and it was there. But it couldn't hurt me anymore. And that was profound that was explaining it to me in a way that I could understand. So that gave me so much peace, and I still cry over him. And I still feel sad at times, but I'm not in the depths of hell anymore. You know, the Bible says that I make my bed and held our there, I'd set up housekeeping in hell. I was just I had settled into that. And this experience said, You're not going to get to stay in hell. You know, that's not that's not what you're made for. That's not where you're supposed to live. So it took me out of hell. So the healing of the disease process is very important. But you know, Psalm 23rd, Psalm 23, says, He restoreth my soul, my soul got rebooted, my soul got restored. That's the real healing. And the thing, I just, I mean, this happened five years ago, next month, this whole thing, the Near Death Experience occurred. The thing I just thought about the last six months because this, I don't remember anymore, but the experience continues to unfold. My body was on that Gurney, it's my soul or my essence or my spirit that went to heaven. But that's where the healing happened. And when I went back to my body, the cancer was gone. So I mean, it's not my body that got hold up to heaven for a reboot. It was my, my consciousness, my spirit, my essence, my soul. So I really believe and I get in a lot of trouble for saying this, too. But I really believe the next great frontier in medicine is going to be spiritual healing. I really do.
Alex Ferrari 52:47
I understand what you're saying. Now, Rose, let me ask you, when you came back out of this, and you had this experience, it seems that you did not have any issues psychologically dealing with what had happened. Did you come out of the closet? Start talking to everybody? Hey, guys, you know, this is what happened. Did you? Did you keep it quiet for a while before you kind of came out? No, I didn't sound like you're like, I've been waiting for this for a while. I want to talk to everybody. Because a lot of people hold onto it for decades, sometimes because they can't process it. You seem to have been able to process this experience, in that sense, very, very easily. And you start yapping about it to everybody who will listen.
Rosemary Thornton 53:33
Well, in fact, several people said you're going to write a book about it. I said, I've written I'm not going to be a 10th. You know, I'll share the story with people that it will help and bless but there will be no 10th book we are cooked and done on this book business. But yeah, I couldn't I couldn't shut up, you know, I couldn't shut and that is a neophyte mistake. You know, we all do that. And then I learned to be more circumspect. And then I did write the book, but I didn't write the book until I was sitting in church about six months afterwards. And I know that sounds crazy, but an angel appeared to me at the end of the pew and said, Hey, where's the book? I mean, I thought the angels be loving light and grace and gentleness. Yeah. And he was dressed like a warrior, you know, the sword and the fancy warrior armor. What do you call it? The protect? Yeah, the armor. Thank you. And he was like, hey, stop worrying about your pride and your physical because I'd been having a tummy ache for several days. He said, Stop worrying about your stomach and your pride. write that book. I was like, okay, so I went home and started on the book. But yeah, I felt very directed book. The book is I've had a lot of good comments if you go to you know, the world's number one bookseller. The reviews are either this book is has helped me so much or she's from Satan. There's nothing in between. And you know, what I get the most trouble for is using a feminine pronoun to describe God. Now if, if I met the original in heaven and this experience, if I met the original and I I'm female. Why can't I say that God might have feminine qualities, but that's what produces the most the most.
Alex Ferrari 55:08
Really? Well, you know, why is
Rosemary Thornton 55:10
In the book, my father abandoned the family, he was bad news. Not a nice guy. Bla bla bla bla bla, I think of God is Father Mike. No thanks. I think of God is Mother, I think yeah.
Alex Ferrari 55:23
Well, it's because Michelangelo did not paint a woman on the Sistine Chapel. That's an old white dude with a beard. And that's what everyone is holding on to. And also Charlton Heston is Moses. But that's just the images that you it's stuck with us throughout history because of that. That's why Santa Claus looks the way Santa Claus does. But Satan Nick never looked like St. Nicholas never looked like the Coca Cola, literally the Coca Cola marketing budget that was created. But it's really interesting. And again, that's that goes back to what I said earlier is when you rock someone's foundation of their programming, it really they fight, they slash out, or they comfort themselves in by whatever Oh, that couldn't this or that? Because and that's what this show does is a general statement. It challenges people's foundations so often, that people who are ready for it, tend to listen to it. And people who aren't it's the devil's work its demons work is it's funny to some some of the stuff is hilarious. I read the comments are genius. We're really good writers. Let me ask you, what is the biggest takeaway you got from this near death experience in your life?
Rosemary Thornton 56:40
This sounds trite. But we do take things too seriously. You know, and we really are. My favorite story. St. John the Divine at the end of his life, he knew Jesus he walked with Jesus who was the last surviving disciple of actually walk the earth of Jesus who come up to him at the end of his life, say, what was the like, you know, walk with Jesus talking with these shores of Galilee. So it wasn't really like, he would only say five words to them. Have you ever heard the story? No matter what anybody said was like, geez, what did he dress like? What were sandals like blah, blah, blah. He would only say five words. In the five words were little children love one another. And I think that's what we're supposed to do. Is we're just supposed to love you know, it's so easy to judge judge comes from ego. Somebody told me years ago, ego stands for edging God out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. So I do think we are just supposed to be loving. And now when I see homeless people, how you see homeless people get a job. And now I see homeless people. And sometimes I just cry and usually not usually, sometimes I talked to my kind of listen for, you know, am I getting a message here? But every homeless person I've talked to lost somebody to suicide, I'm sure that's just the angel said, Hey, you, you you could talk to him.
Alex Ferrari 57:54
Yeah, yeah, you're not the only one. Really, like you can help somebody with what's gone through. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions as all of my guests rose. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Rosemary Thornton 58:06
I don't know. When my kids were little. I have three girls, my kids were little when I would send them off to school, I'd give them a kiss on the head. And I, I'd say a prayer, that God would help them realize their full potential. And I think that's what we're all supposed to do is realize our full potential I'm not sure the pathway. I think it's just listening and loving. I really do think we're supposed to love, love, love, love to a fault. You know, if somebody loves I just read a story, Fred? Oh, gosh, what's his name? I think his name is Fred winter, a pastor 15 years ago, not far from where I live, some crazy guy walked into his church and shot him and killed him. Now on the face of it, that seems like such a tragedy, but maybe that was as a result of that. There's been a lot of awareness about Christianity and the problem, mental illness and all kinds of kinds of stuff. And we say, Oh, what a tragedy. But what if, you know what if that's just the gig? What if that's the cost of love, as we have a few years shaved off our life? I think it's better than everybody being armed and chasing each other around the block with a knife. I guess what I'm saying if I buy loving somebody, if I love somebody, and my life ends, what the world might call prematurely. I'm okay with that. You know, I really am. I used to say, how long our life is supposed to be.
Alex Ferrari 59:31
Fair enough. If you had a chance to go back in time and talk to little Rose, what advice would you give her?
Rosemary Thornton 59:37
Oh, my gosh, these are toffees, you should have sent these in advance. Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know and be kind to yourself, be gentler with yourself.
Alex Ferrari 59:51
Amen. How do you define God?
Rosemary Thornton 59:54
God, God is love. Love is God. And also there's words, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Logos, you know word God, God, God loves words. You know, if you're a wordsmith, man, you gotta go on on. I think God loves words. And I think the biggest thing for someone I've been having this thing about, you know, I'm aging. And I look in the mirror, and I think and look at pictures like, Oh, you're so old. You're not attractive. And then I think you're talking about God's creation. So I think we have to be real careful. The words we speak over ourself.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:35
Yes, very much so
Rosemary Thornton 1:00:36
God is the word and words are God. And words are very powerful.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:41
And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Rosemary Thornton 1:00:46
Love, love alone is life.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:50
And where can people find out more about you and your book, books in general, but this book specifically?
Rosemary Thornton 1:00:56
And the others are about old houses, who cares about that nonsense. Plus, they're all out of print. Now. My book is remembering the light, how dying saved my life. And I do talk a lot about suicide, surviving it, suicide, we're coming up to September, which is suicide prevention month, which I personally is too. Because every time I hear about that, I think, you know, it's the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, if only if only I'd been in for my husband, so he could talk out his troubles, he'd still be alive, wrong. There is nothing I could have done to stop this. And there's nothing I could have done to make it happen. I believe with teens and young people, maybe we have a chance, maybe sometimes, maybe we have a way to talk them out of it. But once a grown person decides to do this, we need to give the survivors a break and say, You know what, there's nothing you could have done you did everything just right. My website is temporarydeath.com Because I did not come near death. I did die. And my my book is remembering the light how dying saved my life.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:54
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?
Rosemary Thornton 1:01:58
Ohh, I'm grateful for the opportunity. And if you can contact me through my website, but the biggest parting message I would have is if you have survived the suicide of somebody you dearly loved. You know, it doesn't matter what you had to do to survive. But if you learn how to live around it in time, and it does get better. Just I think you'd learn how to live around that spot in your heart.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:28
Rosemary, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your amazing journey with us and I hope that this conversation helps a lot of people out there so I appreciate you my dear. Thank you.
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