Next Level Soul Podcast Episode 195
Louise Hamlin, author of WhatsApps from Heaven, was a lawyer turned potter who says she was agnostic before her husband Patrick died. She joins Alex Ferrari to share, as her own perspective, the signs and messages she says she received, how she moved through grief, and why she believes kindness and love matter most.
Key Takeaways
- Louise says she and her husband Patrick had an idyllic life, and that he died suddenly in 2018 after a short illness.
- She says she survived early grief by living in small segments of time, and that meditation calmed her.
- She describes signs she and her friends noticed, including a flame, feathers, and a song on a railway platform.
- She says WhatsApp messages and two unexplained WhatsApp groups convinced her that Patrick was communicating.
- She explains cognitive dissonance as holding two conflicting beliefs, and how it kept her from being disappointed.
- She believes kindness and love are the two most important things in a good life.
Before Patrick Died
Louise Hamlin met her husband Patrick in 2005. She says they were both middle aged and both divorced, and that they simply met and fell in love. They married and, in her words, had an idyllic life in the countryside. She had been a lawyer and became a potter.
Then, in the autumn of 2018, Louise says Patrick developed some strange symptoms, and within three months he was gone. He was 71, and had always been strong and vigorous. She calls it the most horrific and terrible shock of her life.
Neither of them was particularly spiritual. Louise describes them as agnostic. When they knew he was dying, they talked openly about whether there might be an afterlife. Patrick thought death would probably be absolute nothing, and he told her that was nothing to worry about. He did say it was possible, though unlikely, that our spirits survive. Louise felt the same way.
Living in Small Pieces of Time
Louise tells Alex she was shattered. She felt as if her whole world had dissolved, and for a long time it was all she could manage to wake up and brush her teeth. She describes a huge lake of grief inside her.
What helped, she says, was living in the moment. She could not look back, because remembering showed her what she had lost, and she could not look forward to a future without Patrick. So she cut each day into little segments: get to lunchtime, then get through the afternoon. She found that thinking in very small slices of time made the days possible.
The Signs Begin: A Flame, a Feather, a Song
At first, Louise says, the signs went to her friends, not to her. Looking back, she believes she was so submerged in grief that she could not receive anything. A friend of hers who is a bit psychic asked the universe for a sign from Patrick within days of his passing. She asked to see a flame, not in a fireplace or on a candle. That evening, Louise says, her friend saw a tall thin flame in a neighbor’s garden, took a photograph, and sent it to her.
Louise wanted to believe, but she also believed in coincidences. The same friend asked for a particular song on the radio after the funeral. It did not play that day, but the next morning it came over the loudspeaker on a railway platform. Louise calls that quite extraordinary.
Mediums and the WhatsApp Messages
Louise was desperate to know that Patrick was all right, so she went to a medium. The first one did not connect with him at all. Her advice to listeners is that if a first experience is unsatisfying, try someone else, because she thinks it is horses for courses.
She describes the second medium as mind-blowing. Knowing only their names, the medium named the day Patrick lost consciousness.
Then came the WhatsApp messages. Louise says she once left her phone in the kitchen in an empty, silent house, and came back to find a message box full of gibberish addressed to Maria, a medium she knew. Maria then found a message of her own on her phone, with the words “Darling, it’s me.” Louise says later messages contained details that made sense to her but would not have meant anything to Maria.
The Day She Says She Knew
Louise can name the moment her belief shifted. While walking her dog, she says, her phone was in her pocket. When she got home she saw that two WhatsApp groups had been created at six minutes past eleven that morning, one with Patrick and her, and one with Patrick, his daughter, and her. One was called Hamlins and the other Hamlin family. She says she did not know how to create a group at the time.
Her son, who is also a lawyer, spent a long time trying to find an explanation without a supernatural element. In the end, Louise says, he told her it must have been Patrick. Patrick’s daughter received a notification and asked why Louise had made the group. It was the daughter’s birthday, and Louise sees it as Patrick sending a birthday present to say he was still around.
Asked how it felt to finally go all in, Louise says it was incredibly consoling. Patrick had not been totally lost to the world, or to her.
Two Beliefs at Once
Louise shares that psychologists call it cognitive dissonance when you hold two conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time. She says she sort of believed the mediums, and also believed that Patrick’s spirit had not survived.
Alex suggests it may have been the brain protecting her, so that she had something to hold on to either way. Louise says she had not thought of that, but agrees. She was terrified of being disappointed, and so part of her did not want to believe fully.
Grieving, Dreams and a New Life
Louise says the signs came fairly often in the first year, less often in the second, and that she has not had one for some time. In her view, once she was in a much better place and knew he was still around, Patrick was free to move on to other things.
Her message to anyone newly bereaved is that you can be happy again. Her grief, she says, is part of who she is, and you never really stop grieving, but you can build a different life. She advises people to experience grief rather than bottle it up. In her words, grief is a natural emotional response, and the more you grieve the more it means you loved. Does she fear death now? Absolutely not.
Writing the Book and a Good Life
Louise says she woke up one New Year’s Day wanting to write it all down, almost as if Patrick were telling her to. She wanted the world to know there is spirit survival after death. When she talked with other bereaved people and asked whether they had noticed signs, many said yes but had never told anyone, because they did not want to be thought crazy. She wrote WhatsApps from Heaven so those readers could feel their experiences were validated. She also wanted to write the personal account she would have liked to read, rather than a book from the outside in.
Alex shares a sign of his own, finding a long-forgotten video of Thanksgiving with his aunt just days after she passed. Louise also tells Alex she has explored quantum physics, which has left her feeling that life is incredibly complex and that what we call impossible may say more about our narrow vision.
Asked for her definition of a good life, Louise says it is being kind. She believes kindness and love are the two most important things. She does not know her definition of God, and does not know the purpose of life, but says that if you are kind, love, and help others, you lead a life worth living. Her final words are that our physical life is only a small part of our eternal life, which can put the small stuff in perspective.
Please enjoy my conversation with Louise Hamlin.
Guest Links: Connect With Louise Hamlin
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Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Louise Hamlin?
Louise Hamlin is the author of WhatsApps from Heaven. She says she was a lawyer who became a potter and lived in the countryside with her husband Patrick. In this episode she tells Alex Ferrari what she says she experienced after his death.
Was Louise spiritual before Patrick died?
Louise says not particularly. She describes herself and Patrick as agnostic. Before he died, Patrick told her he thought death would probably be nothing, though he allowed that it was possible, if unlikely, that our spirits survive. Louise says she felt the same way.
What signs does Louise say she and her friends received?
Louise describes a friend who asked for a flame and saw one, friends who found feathers, and a song that played on a railway platform after a friend asked for it. She says she was reluctant to accept them at first, because she believed in coincidences. She shares these as her own experiences and her perspective.
What happened with the WhatsApp messages?
Louise says her phone, left alone in a silent house, held a box of gibberish addressed to a medium named Maria, who then found a message of her own. She also says two WhatsApp groups appeared on her phone that she did not create. Her son, a lawyer, concluded it must have been Patrick. This is Louise’s account and her interpretation.
What does Louise mean by cognitive dissonance?
Louise says psychologists use the term when you hold two conflicting ideas in your mind at once. For her, it meant half believing the mediums while also believing Patrick’s spirit had not survived. Alex suggests the brain may have been protecting her from disappointment, and Louise agrees that was probably true.
What helped Louise through her grief?
Louise says she lived in the moment, cutting the day into small segments, and that meditation calmed the churning inside. She also says it helps to experience grief rather than shut it away. This is her personal experience, not medical advice, and anyone struggling should reach out to a qualified professional.
Why did Louise write WhatsApps from Heaven?
Louise says she wanted the world to know that spirit survival is real, and she wanted bereaved people to have their own experiences of signs validated. She found that many people had noticed signs but never told anyone. She also wanted to write the personal, inside account she would have liked to read.
How does Louise define a good life?
Louise says a good life means being kind. She believes kindness and love are the two most important things, and that if you are kind and loving, you reap it back tenfold. She says she does not know the ultimate purpose of life, but that helping others and giving generously makes a life worth living.
Keep Exploring
- Nikki’s free masterclass on mediumship
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- Browse more free masterclasses and the Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript
Louise Hamlin 0:00
There was a whole lot of gibberish in the message box ready to send to somebody called Maria by whatsapp said my phone had somehow opened itself onto the WhatsApp.
Alex Ferrari 0:19
I like to welcome to the show Louise Hamlin, how you doing Louise?
Louise Hamlin 0:37
I'm doing very well, Alex, and I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.
Alex Ferrari 0:41
Thank you so much for coming on the show. We're here to talk about your remarkable book, what what'sapp from heaven, which is great title, by the way. And it's it's such a beautiful and, and it's a beautiful story. It's a heartbreaking story. There's it has a little bit of everything in it. And we're here to talk about your late husband, Patrick, and how he's been able to talk and communicate with you and all that. But before we get started, can you tell me the story of you and Patrick prior to his passing?
Louise Hamlin 1:13
Certainly. Well, we met in 2005. And we were both middle aged. We were both divorced. And it was extraordinary. We just met and fell in love. And I was incredibly happy. We got married. And we had an idyllic life. He was a lawyer. He was a barrister. I had been a lawyer, I became a potter. And we lived in the countryside. And you know, I just thought the day we got married that it was going to be happy ever after story. So then, very suddenly, in the autumn of 2018, he had some funny symptoms, went to the doctor, he had stage four bile duct cancer, he had no idea. And within three months, he was dead. And he had always been a very strong and vigorous man. He was 71. So you know, change. Yep. Exactly. And it was the most horrific and terrible shock. So yeah, I, I felt quite distraught.
Alex Ferrari 2:38
Well, let me ask you. Yeah. Well, it happens to all of us, will eventually. But let me ask you, were you a very spiritual person prior to his passing?
Louise Hamlin 2:49
No, not particularly. We were both, I think, agnostic, we would go to church, sometimes we like to support the local church. But there was a lot of about the Christian theology that we didn't really believe. And we talked about it before he died. But when we knew he was dying, we talked about whether there would be an afterlife or not. And he said that he didn't think there would be one. He thought that the death would be just absolute annihilation. And he said, that's nothing to worry about. Because you know, nothing is nothing to worry about. But he did say I suppose it's possible that our spirits survive. He thought it was Unlikely, but possible. And I think I felt the same,
Alex Ferrari 3:44
Even during even during the process. So when you were having those those final days conversations. I'd imagine that and imagine even at that point, he still was just like, maybe, maybe not kind of attitude about it. He goes, but probably not is his energy.
Louise Hamlin 4:01
Yes. That was that was it. Exactly. He thought it was very unlikely that there was any life after death. And in it, he said several times, that he wasn't scared of death because he thought it would probably be nothing. He was scared of dying. He was scared of the pain and whole process of dying, but death no no, that would be nothing at all.
Alex Ferrari 4:33
So once he passed, how did you begin to cope with that kind of grief for people listening who might be going through the same thing.
Louise Hamlin 4:42
Alex, I was completely and utterly shattered. I would very happily have died with him. I felt that my whole world had done solved. I, I was incapable of doing anything. For a long time. It was all I could manage to wake up in the morning and clean my teeth. I felt as if I had this huge lake of grief inside me. And I felt as though I was an amorphous blob without boundaries. It it was ghastly, it was really, really difficult. And I found several things helped me. I realized that I couldn't think back, because if I remembered, I remembered what I had lost, which I found unnaturally painful. I couldn't look forward, because the idea of a future without Patrick was, again, utterly painful. And so I came to the conclusion that I just had to live in the moment, which is what I did. And of course, you need lots of people telling you that you should live in the moment. And it can be difficult to do. But because I was just so traumatized, really, by what had happened, I found I could just live in the moment and I would just cut the day up into little segments and think, Okay, I've just got to live until lunchtime. I just got to concentrate on what I'm doing until lunchtime. And then, okay, I've just got to survive this afternoon. And just thinking like that, and just thinking in very small segments of time really helped.
Alex Ferrari 6:41
Now, when did you start getting the first signs from Patrick?
Louise Hamlin 6:47
Well, to start with, I wasn't getting signs, but my friends started getting signs.
Alex Ferrari 6:55
He was he was testing it out before he brought it brought it onto the main show, essentially.
Louise Hamlin 7:02
Well, actually, you know what, I think, I think looking back, that I was just so submerged in my grief that I wasn't, I wasn't able to receive anything. But a friend of ours, who is a bit psychic, she got quite an extraordinary sign within five days of his passing. And she she'd been very fond of Patrick, and she asked the universe one. One morning, Patrick send her a sign. And she asked to see a flame. She said not in a fireplace, or candle, but I would like to see a flame. I'd like to flame today. She then went about her business and forgot about it. And that evening, she went to draw her curtains at night. And there was a tall thin flame coming from the neighbor's garden. She rushed and she got her phone. She took a photograph of it. And then the flame disappeared. And she sent me the photograph and she said, Louise, you know, I don't know whether I should tell you this or not. But I asked Patrick for a sign to tell me that he was okay. I asked for a flame. And look what I've just seen. I've taken photograph on it. And here it is. And she said, that could be a coincidence that I didn't believe in coincidences. And the thing was Alex, I wanted to believe that it was Patrick thing that he was okay. But I did believe in coincidences. So, yeah, I just thought Yeah,
Alex Ferrari 8:48
You're a hard customer. You're hard customer is basically what you're saying here like it's good. It's it's gonna take more than just a flame to break through this wall that I put up.
Louise Hamlin 8:56
Yeah, yeah. I've been a lawyer for goodness sake.
Alex Ferrari 9:00
You because You could argue your way out of anything is basically fine. No, yeah. I got five points on why that's a coincidence.
Louise Hamlin 9:07
I knew I knew and and coincidences continued to stack up they really did. You know, and, and friends had feathers and friends had lights going on and off all the while while they were thinking of Patrick. And I wasn't getting anything. And then eventually, I decided that I would ask for a feather on a train because I was getting getting a train the next day. And I knew that knew all these things had been happening to my friends. And they'd been contacting me saying, you know, I think I've had a message from Patrick. So I asked for this feather on a train and next day, I got on the train, and the compartment is quite crowded. But I saw a couple of empty seats just at the far end. So right and sat down, be pleased to have a seat. And like Lance sit next to me. And there was a little further. Now it didn't convince me. I thought it still
Alex Ferrari 10:13
Oh, another feather. Yeah. Well, you know what, are the chances
Louise Hamlin 10:18
I knew exactly. And, and so it carried on. And then I started getting the WhatsApp apps. And for people who don't know, WhatsApp is it's a sort of texting app.
Alex Ferrari 10:34
It's like a texting phone app for the world, essentially.
Louise Hamlin 10:37
Yes, exactly. And it's used a lot in the UK. So I think it's probably people's preferred method of sending a text. And you can create what are called WhatsApp groups. And you and you have a group, and then you can post on the group and everybody in the group sees the text. So anyway, yeah, I started getting this WhatsApps. For who? Well, what happened was, one day, I left my phone in the kitchen, and I went out, and the house was empty, and locked, and silent. There's no radio on or anything like that. And when they returned home, and went into the kitchen, there was a whole lot of gibberish in the message box, ready to send to somebody called Maria, by whatsapp said my phone had somehow opened itself onto the WhatsApp had or pinned itself onto Maria's thread. And the message box was, was full of lots and lots and lots of words. There are some are proper words, some were not proper words. And I couldn't make any sense of it at all. And nor could I make any sense of how it had arrived on my phone. So I looked at this, and I was really quite puzzled. And I wondered whether to delete it. And I thought, I'll send it to Maria, because Maria is a medium. And I had been to see her a little while before. And she had been a sort of Portal if you like, I had had communications from Patrick, by her mediumship. So I sent it to her. And they said, Maria, I found this on my phone, and I can't think how it got there. And what do you think? And she looked at it, and she replied, Louise, I have no idea. Then the next day, I got a message from her, saying, hey, Louise, look what I have found on my phone, ready to send to you. And it was a shorter paragraph. Some of the words were gibberish, but three times in the paragraph. It said, Darling, it's me. And it also said, Valentine's Day 2019. And it also says Lily's. And Maria Said, I think this must be from Patrick. And I thought, Well, yes. I mean, he called me darling. And it was just really weird. Seeing this message with darling. It's me. I mean, it did give me goosebumps. And the messages carried on. And they contained sort of information that made sense to me. But wouldn't have made sense to Maria. So I was, I was thinking, well, maybe Patrick can manipulate WhatsApp, addictive, extraordinary. But of course, there was a tiny bit of me which thought Maybe Marie Na, and maybe Maria is is making all this up. And I couldn't see any reason why she should have done and actually, she was a really nice, sensible, down to earth, mom and wife, and she didn't do her mediumship so for living, she just did it for friends and friends of friends. And she didn't. She didn't charge much at all it was for pennies, you know?
Alex Ferrari 15:15
Well, let me let me ask you, I want to go back for a second you when you decided to go because we kind of skipped over the part where you went to a medium. So you weren't you weren't from a place of like, there's just these are a bunch of coincidences, to the place where you're like, I need to go to a medium jumping from a place of nonbelief to jumping to going to see a medium. What was that decision process? What drove you to search out a medium, even if it was a friend of the family? Like what drove you at that point? Because a lot of people are in that same space right now who are listening to this who had just don't believe, but there was something that just tipped you over finally broke through the crack through the wall a bit. What was that?
Louise Hamlin 15:55
Oh, I I don't know that it tipped me over. Finally, the thing is, after he died, I was I was desperate to know that he was all right. Okay, and an okay. Most of the thought that he no longer was in any sort of existence. But a bit of me hoped that he was in existence. And if he was in existence, that I was desperate to know that he was all right. I was very worried about him. So I went to a medium and the first medium I went to, just didn't connect with him at all. And she ended up getting a bit ratty with me, because I kept on saying no, that doesn't make sense. No, that doesn't sound like him. No, no. But what I did was I decided to try another medium. And I would advise in any listeners who've had an unsatisfactory experience with the first medium just to try someone else. I think it is horses for courses. And the second medium blew my mind. I phoned her up, I found her on the internet. I phoned her up. I said, Hi, my name's Louise. And I would like to meet you because I want to see if I can make contact with my husband, Patrick. And she said, Okay, when did he die? And I said In February, she said, Well, that might be a bit soon. But oh, he died in the middle of February, didn't you? And I said yes. And she said, Oh, he died on February the 16th, didn't you? And I said, No. I said, he lost consciousness on the 16th. But he actually died on the 18th. In it for 48 hours, he was in a coma. And she said she didn't know me from Adam. She just knew my name in his name. She said, Oh, well, he's telling me he died on the 16th. That's what I'm going to write down. And I thought, My goodness Meili, because I can see why he thought he died on the 16th. And, you know, there are 28 days in February, and she had homed in with no prior knowledge to the day he'd lost consciousness. So I went to see her the following week. And there were lots of things that she said that were extraordinary. But I think that psychologists call it cognitive dissonance, when you have two conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time, and you sort of believe both of them. You know, you know, so I sort of believed the mediums, but I also believe that his spirit hadn't survived. It's,
Alex Ferrari 18:55
Do you think that was because of just a defense mechanism? I guess I'm both says your brain is trying to protect you on both sides and wants to have its cake and eat it too. kind of situation.
Louise Hamlin 19:07
I hadn't thought of that. And I think you're probably right, because I was desperate to think that he did still survive, but and I was really, really terrified of being disappointed. And so I, yeah, I didn't really quite want to believe, because then I could have been disappointed.
Alex Ferrari 19:29
So your brain was protecting itself. It was trying to protect you essentially, in so many ways. That's what the brain does. But it's fast. It's just fascinating, because you'd like at the same, I believe the mediums but look at just in case this medium thing doesn't work out. I got this other belief that will hold me together. Because if you went on if you went on if you weren't 100% on either of them, you're betting the farm, at least you have a 50 50 chance or at least either way, you've got something to hold on to, to continue to move forward. It's it's a it's a really interesting psychological thing that the brain is doing to you. So, so you went to that medium. And then Maria was what? A few mediums after that.
Louise Hamlin 20:08
Yeah, I think I think all in all, I went to probably five mediums of of whom three were great. And two were not so great. But I mean, the ones who were great, were extraordinary. I mean, this first medium I went to, she said, she described Patrick. She said, Oh, he's standing here. And she described what he looked like. She described his character to a tee perfectly. And then she said, Why is he showing me a corn flower? It wasn't any offer. She's a corn flower. And in fact, when Patrick and I had got married, that had been our wedding flower, he had worn a corn flower in his buttonhole. And how on earth did she knew that a corn flower was very special to us, and really had great emotional importance. And then she said, Oh, he's looking at he's pointing to his feet. And he's wearing slippers, and he's laughing. Why is he laughing? And why is he pointing to his slippers? And that makes sense as well, because the funeral director had asked for some clothes to put on the body in the coffin. And I thought, What should I send, and I thought he was happiest when he was outside working in the country. So I sent his his his country clothes, his outside country clothes. But then I looked at his boots. And I thought, oh, it'd be very heavy on his feet. So I sent his outdoor country clothes and his slippers. So it was an odd combination. And I could see why he laughed.
Alex Ferrari 22:06
So okay, so there was, it's just such a fascinating story, because it's, it's a story of someone who didn't have any sort of belief hadn't drank the Kool Aid, if you will, on this kind of stuff prior, someone with a very analytical mind, a lawyer's mind no less, which is even more analytical than you know, you're in the engineering and scientific world of people who can talk there some talk their way out of something if they go if they want to. And slowly but surely. So at what point did you start to feel that he was that this was real. I mean, after that, was it after the first medium?
Louise Hamlin 22:47
No, Alex, I can absolutely pinpoint that point. And it was on the sixth of August. And I've been having these WhatsApps via Maria. And so, you know, wanted to believe, but was a tiny bit suspicious. Still. I was out walking my dog on tooting common in London, and I had the phone in my pocket. And when I got back, I've seen with my son, I pulled the phone out of my pocket, and told me that I had created two WhatsApp groups at six minutes past 11. That morning, one consisting of Patrick and me, one consisting of Patrick, his daughter, and me. And it's quite complicated to create a WhatsApp group. One was called Hamlins. One was called Hamlin family. And I stared at the screen. Because I knew that six minutes past 11, the phone had been in my pocket. I had not created the groups, to be frank at the time, I didn't even know how to create a group. And I stared and I stared. And I thought, Oh, my Goodness me. It's Patrick. It must be Patrick, who's done it. And I told my son, who is a lawyer and in central London, and he spent a long time trying to work out how it could have happened without a supernatural element. And eventually, he said, Do you know what ma'am? It must have been Patrick. There's no other way it could have happened. And it was seeing those WhatsApp groups that may be realized that Patrick was somehow manipulating WhatsApp and was able to use it to communicate and his daughters. She received this notification that I had created this group of her father and me, and she contacted me and said, Louise, why have you created this group? And I said, You know what? I didn't, I promise you. I didn't, like explain what had happened. And it was her birthday that day. And I see it as Patrick sending his daughter a birthday present to say, darling, I'm still around.
Alex Ferrari 25:28
God, what did you feel like when you finally, when you finally went all in on this belief that you're like, Oh, he is here. Like, what were the feelings that were going through you what was the? I just I'm just curious, because to not believe, and to maybe have one foot in one foot out to all of a sudden go, Oh, my God, this is real. How did that make you feel?
Louise Hamlin 25:53
Oh, Alex, I cannot tell you how consoling it was. I it helped me such a lot. It was so concerning. To think that Patrick spirit was still around. And I he hadn't been totally lost to the world. And he wasn't totally lost to me. And he was still communicating with me. It just made me feel so much better. It really did.
Alex Ferrari 26:32
And and there's a there's a chapter in your book called The cheap the Cheap Trick. Can you please everybody the cheap trick with the cheap trick was that Patrick played on you?
Louise Hamlin 26:41
Well, well. The is that are you referring to the music? I think so. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because again, that was the friend who had seen the flame. And she was driving home from Patrick's funeral. And she had the radio on. And she thought I'll ask Patrick for another sign. And she's asked to hear I want you to want me by cheap trick on the radio. And she chose that because it's a song from the 1980s song that she liked. But she had never heard it on UK radio. And anyway, she drove home and the song didn't appear. And when she got home, she turned off the radio. The next morning, she went to the railway station to collect her parents who are coming to stay. And she was standing on the platform waiting for the train to come in. And suddenly over the tannoy guess what they played? i i Is it was quite extraordinary. It really was.
Alex Ferrari 27:58
That's remarkable. How often these how often did those signs come? And are they still coming?
Louise Hamlin 28:06
They they came pretty frequently for the first year, less frequently for the second year. And I haven't had a sign for some time now. As I see it, he gave me several signs, which were absolutely extraordinary and amazing. And left me in no doubt at all, but that he was around and trying to send me love. And expect it was really quite tricky for him. And I think that there came a point when he thought okay, Louise now is in a much better place herself. And she knows that I'm still around, then I can go into other things. That's That's how I see it anyway.
Alex Ferrari 29:04
To go off into the to the resort that is heaven enjoy what he's got to go there. And yeah,
Louise Hamlin 29:11
Yeah. But I mean, he got me he got me through this first two years. He really did.
Alex Ferrari 29:18
Well, I mean, I think also at a certain point, if these signs kept coming every day, then the life would be about the signs it would be a life about about this. And they wouldn't be as much you live in your your life it'd be about this thing. So from my point of view, at least it sounds like it kind of has to wean you off of it a little bit because it's almost kind of like you know, kind of a really reassuring thing that you have to because if you if you become addicted to it like oh god, Patrick has a hit me up today. He hasn't. He hasn't what's happening today. He hasn't texted it. At a certain point. It's kind of like wean you off of it. So then you can like look, you know, I'm okay. I'm here with you. You move on and live, live your life essentially.
Louise Hamlin 30:04
You know, I think that that is exactly what happened, I really do. And I mean, he sent me one sign in particular, which I found very, very moving. I was playing cards. With three friends, we were playing a game called Bridge. And you have two packs of cards in Bridge, and you play alternate hands with the alternate packs. So we played a hand with the red cards, then we played with the blue cards, then we played with the red cards again. And the person dealing with red cards was a card short at the end. So we assumed she'd missed out. And today we counted out cards. But no, she hadn't missed out. So we thought it was a card must somehow have fallen from the table. So we looked for the card on the floor, their card. So this was a bit strange. So we stood up and looked for the cards if we were sitting on it, or it was on our lap, no card. Well, we became more and more determined to find this card, and we could not find it anywhere. And in the end, one of my friends said, it's probably Patrick, I expect it's a heart. So we looked to see which card it was. And it was the nine of hearts. So they said to me, does that mean anything to you? Nice. Well, no. That seems quite random. I mean, the ace of hearts or the Queen of Hearts. Yeah, but the nine of hearts. It, the car did not turn up. Two or three days later, I was telling a friend about this. This friend does Tarot. And she said, Oh Louise, the nine of hearts. It's like the nine of cups. And what that represents is deep and abiding and eternal and wonderful love. And I thought, yeah, that's what I thought as well. And I needed those boosts at the time. And actually, I don't need them now. Because I can just, I just feel loved inside by Patrick. And now I'm able to live a new life.
Alex Ferrari 32:33
Do you Did you ever see Patrick in dreams or in a meditation if you meditate?
Louise Hamlin 32:39
Yeah, I do meditate. And I actually found meditation was really helpful. When I was totally grief stricken. It was the only thing that could calm the churning inside. And yes, I have had two or three dreams, where Patrick has appeared very vividly. And I think that quite a lot of people find that they have dreams. Some of these dreams can be concerning, some can be distressing. In one of the dreams, there was Patrick, but I couldn't reach him. But then in another dream there I was with him. And I can remember waking up and just feeling so happy and so blissful. And then of course, I realized that it had been a dream. And so if that was a bit of a downer
Alex Ferrari 33:34
A let down if you will. Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you, and I think I know the answer. But I'm gonna ask you anyway, do you fear death anymore?
Louise Hamlin 33:46
Absolutely not. Absolutely not!
Alex Ferrari 33:49
With enthusiasm, she says it.
Louise Hamlin 33:53
And, you know, it's, it's nearly four years now since he died. And the first two years were very hard. And my grief for Patrick is, is part of who I am. So I don't think you ever stop grieving. But it just becomes part of who you are. And you find that you can create a new life and enjoy your new life, you can be happy again, which I didn't think I would ever be. And you just carry sorrow within you as as part of as part of you. And I want to say that because I know that when you are first bereaved, you cannot imagine that you will never, ever be happy again. But actually, you can be you will be you lived a different life, not the life you wanted. But you can and create something new.
Alex Ferrari 35:02
Now, when did you get the idea to write what's apps from heaven? Because I mean, there's one thing to have the story amongst your friends and family. But you decided to go public with this. And I have to also have to imagine, as a former attorney, you know, colleagues and friends who weren't privy to this information might have looked at you a little bit differently. Now, after this book came out as well.
Louise Hamlin 35:25
They totally, totally do. And I mean, I did realize that I was putting my head above the parapet, I, I suddenly woke up, it was January, the first I think, and I suddenly thought, I want to write this down. It was almost as if Patrick was telling me to write it down. And it just flowed, I just found that I could write it very easily. Because I wanted the world to know that there is spirit survival after death. And I would love it to become part of normal general discourse. And also, what I discovered was that when I talked to other brief people, if I were to say, and have you read any signs? Most of them would then say, Yes, I have, I think I had, but I've never told anybody because they didn't want to be thought crazy. And this, this response just happened again, and again. And so I wanted to write the book. So that people who were bereaved, and who thought maybe maybe they'd had signs but yeah. Could have could have that experience validated. could know that. Yeah, actually, you can get signs.
Alex Ferrari 37:00
You, if I may share a sign with you that I had. I actually had a an aunt of mine. It was who I was semi close to, but I loved her dearly. And she passed. And two, three days after she passed, I was looking through old VHS is stacks and stacks and I was doing a project. And I put one of these VHS as in. And lo as I'm fast forward, and lo and behold, I found a two minute video that I took in high school, or like in college, have a Thanksgiving dinner with her, my entire family. And I had forgotten that even shot it. It hadn't seen the light of day in 30 years. And lovely tude. And then I filmed it with my iPhone, I sent it to all my family members, and everybody and it was literally two days after like, talk about coincidence.
Louise Hamlin 37:56
Yeah
Alex Ferrari 37:58
It was just like so amazing that that's the way Kenneth came through it your story is so remarkable. And I do appreciate you. Not only sharing it here, but having the bravery to write it down. And as you said, poke your head up above, you know, in the line of fire, if you will, to put this out into the world to help to help other people are going through this. And another question I have for you is for what would you say to anyone who has lost someone in this in their life and is moving through the grief right now?
Louise Hamlin 38:33
Well, I found that living in the moment help, I found that meditation helped. I found that slowly, slowly. With time, I did begin to heal a little bit. And I I think that you just have to experience the grief. I don't think it's a good idea to try and shut it away, and to try and carry on as normal. Because then I think you're just bottling up emotions and they'll come and bite you in the future. So I think experience of grief and know that it's it's not a medical condition. It's a natural, a natural emotional response. And, you know, the more you grieve then in a way it means the more you love the person and so when you're lucky to have that love, but just knew that with time, it does get better. It really does. And I wrote about what I did and, and and and how I navigated my way through it Other people might find different things help. But I thought that it would be useful to people who are bereaved to know what my experience was. Because so many books about bereavement, they're written by sort of so called experts who write about it from the outside in. And I wanted to write the book that I would have liked to read, which was a book of somebody's personal experience, and to learn how they had navigated their way through, and to know that by the end of the process, they were in a better place.
Alex Ferrari 40:40
That's beautiful Louise thank you so much. I'm going to ask you a few questions. I asked all of my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?
Louise Hamlin 40:51
Being kind. I think kindness. I think kindness and love are the two most important things. And I think that if you are kind, and if you are loving, then you reap that back tenfold.
Alex Ferrari 41:13
What is your definition of God?
Louise Hamlin 41:17
I don't know that answer, Jeff. I just don't know Alex, I really don't.
Alex Ferrari 41:25
With all of this new experience, with spirituality, and with Patrick signs and everything. Have you delve deeper into spirituality because of this?
Louise Hamlin 41:36
Yes. And I've also delved into quantum physics, trying to make sense of all this life. And all I can say is, I had discovered that life is incredibly complex and extraordinary. And things that we think are totally impossible, happen on a quantum level. Which means that the impossible can happen and does happen. And the fact that we think these things are impossible, says more about our blinkered vision or understanding than about anything else.
Alex Ferrari 42:22
And last question, what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Louise Hamlin 42:26
I don't know. But I do know that if you are kind, if you love, if you try and be there for others, and help others and give generously. You lead a life, which is worth living. Whether that is its purpose or not? I don't know. I mean, there is the theory isn't that the purpose of life is for us to experience a whole range of emotions and experiences. And maybe that is the case, I don't know.
Alex Ferrari 43:14
And where can people find out more about you? And where can they purchase What'sApp from heaven?
Louise Hamlin 43:19
Well, I have a website, which is Louisehamlin.com. And you can order the book from Amazon from Barnes and Noble or, well, any bookshop really. And I wrote the book, for the bereaved, so people who want to help the bereaved, because I talk about what helped and what didn't help. And also for people who are interested in the possibility or probability of life after death.
Alex Ferrari 43:55
And do you have any final words for our audience?
Louise Hamlin 44:00
I can only say that, having experienced what I experienced, which was totally against all my previous beliefs, we do survive death, our spirits survive. And I think that's concerning for all of us. So if we've made wrong choices, if our lives have not been as successful or happy as we would have liked, I think that we've got to realize we can realize that our life on this earth in our physical body is only a small part of our eternal life. And that helps put things in perspective I think.
Alex Ferrari 44:54
I think a little bit less you don't sweat the small stuff not nearly as much
Louise Hamlin 44:59
See, I think that's absolutely true.
Alex Ferrari 45:03
Louise thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for putting this out into the world and I hope this conversation helps a lot of people out there who might be going through what you were going through and I appreciate you my dear, thank you so much.
Louise Hamlin 45:14
Thank you, Alex.
Alex Ferrari 45:16
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