Verified NDE – I Died in Surgery & What I Saw Changed My Life with Karen Thomas

In the sacred space of today’s episode, we welcome Karen Thomas, a remarkable individual whose near-death experience (NDE) offers profound insights into life, death, and spiritual growth. Her journey from a traumatic childhood and a life marked by seeking spiritual fulfillment to a transformative NDE is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the boundless nature of love and forgiveness.

Karen begins by sharing her life prior to her NDE. Living in upstate New York, she was a physical therapist with a husband and two children. Her spiritual journey had led her through various churches, but she felt a persistent sense of unworthiness and was continuously searching for deeper spiritual meaning. This search was compounded by childhood trauma, including witnessing her father’s death at a young age, which deeply affected her sense of self-worth and spiritual beliefs.

Karen’s near-death experience began during a surgery to address a ruptured disc in her back. During the procedure, she found herself consciously observing the frantic activity of the medical team from above, realizing she was witnessing her own resuscitation. This out-of-body experience transitioned into a journey through a dark tunnel towards a bright light, where she was enveloped by an overwhelming sense of peace and love.

Karen Thomas describes meeting a guide, who led her through various realms and ultimately to a review of her life. She saw her life’s events and felt the impact of her actions on others, both positive and negative. This life review was not judgmental but deeply compassionate, emphasizing growth and understanding. Her guide and the spiritual beings around her radiated love and reassured her that her experiences were part of a greater plan for learning and soul development.


  1. No Judgment, Only Growth: Karen’s life review emphasized that there is no judgment in the spiritual realm, only opportunities for growth. The experiences and interactions in our lives are meant for learning and evolving spiritually.
  2. Interconnectedness of All: Her NDE highlighted the interconnectedness of all souls. The actions and kindness we extend to others ripple outwards, affecting countless lives beyond our immediate perception.
  3. Love and Forgiveness: The overwhelming message Karen received was one of unconditional love and the importance of forgiveness, both towards others and oneself. This profound love transcends all earthly experiences and challenges.

Karen’s return to her physical body was driven by her love for her children and the realization that they needed her. Upon waking, she was filled with the peace and love she had experienced during her NDE, though she faced significant physical and emotional challenges. Her transformation was met with skepticism and difficulty from those around her, as she struggled to reconcile her new spiritual understanding with her previous life.

Despite these challenges, Karen’s NDE instilled in her a profound sense of purpose and a commitment to sharing her experiences and insights with others. She emphasizes that one does not need to have an NDE to achieve spiritual growth and understanding. By seeking spiritual knowledge, practicing meditation, and connecting with others on a similar path, anyone can experience profound personal transformation.

Karen Thomas’s journey underscores the importance of compassion, love, and spiritual exploration. Her experiences offer hope and guidance to those seeking to understand their own lives and spiritual paths.

Please enjoy my conversation with Karen Thomas.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 193

Karen Thomas 0:00
No judgment. This is for your growth experience, and for the growth experience of others.

Alex Ferrari 0:08
I'd like to welcome to the show, Karen Thomas. How you doing Karen?

Karen Thomas 0:26
I'm doing really good. How about you?

Alex Ferrari 0:28
I'm doing very good, my dear, thank you so much for coming on the show, I truly appreciate it. I am excited to hear your unique story or in a boring story, however you want to look at of things that happened to you along the way in life. So before we get before we get to your nde What was your life like prior to your near death experience?

Karen Thomas 0:49
Prior to the experience, I was living in upstate New York small town. I had been a physical therapist for a number of years, had two children, an older daughter and a younger son. And my husband, who had been in the Navy was contacted by a friend of his who lived in Alaska, and had been in the Navy with him. And he said, How would you like to come to Alaska and move to Alaska, and I'm sure you can find some work here. And your wife's a physical therapist, no problem with her findings, any work. And I'd love to see you again. So anyway, it kind of planted the seed. And also during that timeframe, I had been kind of spiritually seeking, had been in my husband's family church for a number of years, and just really felt like, I wasn't suited there, and it wasn't fulfilling needs. So I had had had ended up being talked to by other friends who were in Bible studies and things and they said, Oh, well, you know, it's all about being born again. You know, and it's all about having, you know, a baptism of the Holy Spirit. And we've experienced this and you can too, and, you know, so I had really gotten into reading the Bible a lot and trying to figure out what I was missing. And, you know, hoping that if we did this move, that we'd be able to find a church there, where it would meet these needs, I guess, that I felt like I had. So that was kind of what led up to it. We went up and did interviews, and both of us got offered jobs. And I was offered a job at the main Trauma Center in Anchorage, Alaska, in the acute physical therapy department, and my husband was a machinist, and he got work for Westinghouse and working in Prudhoe oil field repair, machinery repair stuff. So that was kind of the background. So we sold our home, packed everything up, drove all the way across Canada, with two small kids in a pickup truck and dragging a little little car behind us and made our way up to Alaska and, and started a new life there.

Alex Ferrari 3:32
That's very interesting. So when you were looking for more spirituality in your life, and you found what was the religion if you want me asking?

Karen Thomas 3:41
It was Christianity. My husband's church had always been he had grown up in the Episcopal Church. And his dad was an organist. His mom was an altar Guild and I had had experience with just like Methodist Church and a Reformed Church, but you know, really quite different. But still, you know, I just was kind of at sea, you know, feeling like I wasn't quite where I needed to be, or ought to be, you know,

Alex Ferrari 4:13
Even with even once you found this new church, and this new, this new, kind of like the new religion or church that you were looking for you were still kind of like, kind of searching still.

Karen Thomas 4:24
Yeah, definitely searching and when we actually arrived in Alaska and, and got our home there. We did find an Episcopal Church. And it also happened to be what they call a charismatic church at that time. And so it kind of, I thought was along the lines of what, what I needed, you know, and I felt like I needed this, I think because I had always just kind of felt not quite worthy enough, you know, and so I thought, gee, if I can figure out how to hit Have this baptism of the Holy Spirit and, you know, have my my kids and my husband all of us in that, and that that'll make that'll make a difference, then I'll then I'll be worthy enough.

Alex Ferrari 5:13
Got it! Yeah, that whole worthiness thing is a chip that we a lot of us carry.

Karen Thomas 5:18
Yeah. And, and I especially did because I had when I was way back when I was seven years old, I had been with my father, and my mother, and we're out in a boat and the river. And my father had a massive heart attack and died in front of me. And I, at the time had, as a little kid had prayed like, crazy, you know, that he lived. And, and he didn't. And so, from that point on, I just kind of always thought like, Hmm, I guess I'm not good enough.

Alex Ferrari 5:58
Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to hear that. That must have been that trauma must have been something that you carried with you up into this day, obviously, I think maybe you've let go of it a little bit more after your experience. But But you basically that sticks with you, though. It sticks with you.

Karen Thomas 6:14
Yeah, yeah, it does. And was very much sticking with me at that time. You know, and I had these mixed feelings going on. Because I thought, Oh, I have going to have any chance to go to heaven, I have to go through this experience of, you know, being having a baptism of the Holy Spirit. And then the, and my kids have to and my husband has to, and then the other side of me would worry, and say, But wait a minute, my dad who died so long ago, and I also had a brother who was killed in a car accident and other family members and stuff. And I thought, I know that they didn't have anything like that. And in fact, they didn't really even attend church much at all, maybe holidays, Christmas or something. And so the mixed feelings were, I really have to do this, and my family, family has to, but then again, if I get there, and I get to heaven, my father and my brother aren't going to be there. You know, so it was a really a push pull type of a thing.

Alex Ferrari 7:24
Right! And because of what you've been taught, growing up, that was your belief system, that was what you were kind of born into. So I you know, I've said on the show before, I'm a recovering Catholic. So I had a lot of those things. Oh, I understand completely understand the not worthiness I understand that Heaven and Hell concept, all all these things like, you know, and I was the the seasonal, going to church when I was younger, kind of like Christmas, Easter. Yeah, that was basically and it was it was rough, when I just I never, it just never connected with me. It connects with other people that just didn't connect for me. So tell me about what happened on your on the day of your near death experience?

Karen Thomas 8:07
Well, I had been out of work for a couple of months, because at work, I had injured my back. And five years prior to that I had had a ruptured disc and a surgery on my back. And so I was had tried to, you know, recover with it. But it was another ruptured disc. And so I was facing, possibly having to have a spinal fusion, or at the very least have another laminectomy. And being a physical therapist, which is a fairly heavy lifting type of a job. I was really, you know, concerned about losing my career. So I had, you know, contacted people back where we had moved from and said, this is when I'm going to be operated on and, and people that were in the church I was attending and just lots of people and ask them if they'd pray for me that, you know, I would only have to have a laminectomy could keep on being a physical therapist. So got it scheduled. And the morning it was one of the early surgeries, one of the earliest ones in the morning, and my husband and my two kids came and they got me all prepped, and they were able to walk beside the stretcher as they took me down to the operating room area. And then as we got almost to them, or suite, they were sent off to a waiting room. I was brought into the or suite and it was a long area of lots of old wires because it was the Trump main Trauma Center. Same hospital I worked in. So anyway, I was put on my stomach because they were going to be reopening my back and I remember them starting the anesthesia, you know, through the IV and And that was obviously all that I was aware of, until suddenly, I was aware. And my consciousness was literally like up in the corner, upper corner of this operating room suite. And there was a great ruckus going on. The, the surgeon was swearing at one of the nurses and saying to go get bags of blood and, you know, anesthesiologist was up, it was just a big ruckus. And so my attention was drawn back in that direction, just in time to see them flipping my body. And they were flipping out from face down to face up. And so I realized, looking at a, that that's me, that white face thing is me, and I'm up here, my consciousness is, I must be dead. By I have to get to my husband and my kids, I've got to let them know that somehow I'm still me, I'm, I'm, you know, I don't understand this at all. But I've got to find them. So as soon as I started thinking that my consciousness literally went through the wall of the Orion back out into the hallway, I had come down. And then I just went down this hallway, past the other or rooms, and there was a double set of doors and went right through those. And then I was back out into the hallway area, near where my husband and kids had been sent the other way to a waiting room. And so I tried to continue in that direction to try to figure out how to get to them. And just at that point in time, a voice telepathically spoke and said, pay attention to this man. And I realized that there was a man that was rushing toward the direction that I had just come from. And so as soon as they let voice said that it was as though I could zoom in on this guy. And so I could see his eye color and what he was wearing, and, and literally, also could hear his thoughts. And he was thinking, I've got to get in there fast. And as he was thinking that I heard the thoughts of another man who was closer to those double doors, and his thoughts were, what's that guy think he's doing? He can't go in there. He's not a doctor, he's, you know, he was just dressed regular clothes and, and I heard those thoughts kind of biplane, and paid attention in that direction, just in time to see, the guy had initially been told to pay attention to pause. And then as he paused, then the double doors swung open. And he went on through and into the or suite. And once he did, I tried to think to get back to the waiting room again. But I was no longer able to keep myself going in any direction. I felt as though I was pulled. Like I mentioned, like maybe a tractor being like, literally, you know, like I was being pulled upward and I went up through the ceiling of that hallway, and up through another floor and up through the next one ended up out of the hospitals roof completely up the hospitals located near the two GAC mountains, and up almost at the level of like a small, small planes flew all the time. And that's when I began to think, wow, I don't feel the difference in temperature out here. I don't feel any breeze or anything. And then I began being pulled in a horizontal direction and was pulled literally all the way out over the city of Anchorage. And it sits on water. And just at the point where I would have been going out over water, a big dark, rounded, kind of looked almost like a cave opening came on front of me and I was sucked inside of it. And once I was inside this dark, tunnel like thing, then I started going even faster, very very fast. But again, not feeling any sensation of air or anything by me. And as I was in there, I've noticed way off in the distance a really teeny tiny pinprick of light. And as I was pulled, the light got bigger, and it got bigger as I was getting closer and closer to it. And then I just burst out into this full, bright light. And when I did, I was just filled with this enormous feeling of peace and of, of love so much love, and just comfort and just so many words that you know, you really can't even put, put it into words, but just enormous, enveloping love. And as I did I, I thought, Well, where am I and looked where my feet should be, in course, no feet, but didn't see like a brown rocky ground below me. And the whole landscape was very arid looking. And my first thought was, well, I, this isn't what I would think the heaven would be like. And then I heard the telepathic voice again and said, Follow me. And it was from off to my left. And as I looked off, to my left, I saw a man was climbing up a slope.

And as he was heading up the slope, and then, as I heard that voice, I was immediately like, only about a few feet behind them, and going up, also. And so I'm looking at the back of this guy, which was all I could see. And his hair was almost black and pulled back, and was tied with a piece of leather. And His clothing was just like a mid thigh length, you know, very plain off white linen type thing, another tie around his waist, and on his feet, he had sandals. But there were sandals where there were ties that criss crossed up his calves, and tied like right below the knee. And so my immediate thought again was, well, that's not Jesus. I don't know who it is. But I'm pretty sure that can't be Jesus. But followed him, you know, and felt from him a feeling as though he knew me. I should know him. Very comfortable, very welcoming. So I wasn't fearful at all. I just was uncertain, not seeing things I expected to see, I guess I was dead. And as we came up over the slope, the entire landscape changed. And it became very lush and green. Everything was very green, and flower studying this whole field. And then often the distance trees, beautiful trees. And as I looked at everything, I realized that the light that I had burst into wasn't just there where I burst into what it was literally inside everything I was looking at and being radiated out. So the there were gorgeous flowers that were radiating this light and the trees and the leaves. And so I was kind of mesmerized, and that guy, I started calling him my guide, and he had gone on ahead and his teleport Pathak voice again said follow me. And so I was immediately up behind him again. And at this point, he was on the bank of a river. And the river had this gorgeous, glistening diamond luster to it. And I thought Bible verse again, I thought, you know, living waters, and yeah, and then rate across on the opposite bank of the river. I saw my father and my brother, and aunts and uncles who had died, and other relatives that I knew had died. And with them I even saw for people that I didn't recognize, but I just knew that they were my four grandparents that had all died before I was born. And all of them were just like welcoming and like, oh, wow, she's here. Isn't this wonderful? She's here. And you know, I want it to go there so badly. But my guide who was the one who was steering me everywhere, said you have to go somewhere else first. No, you have to go with me. And so, again, I'm following him and he, you know, goes further along the bank of the river and then it winds around and when it wound around, then it opened up into a huge area where in this center of it was this gorgeous building that was like a pearlescent. White. I mean, it, it like everything else was glowing. And then I began to see other other individuals, people, I call them spiritual people. And they were there, outside this building, coming down the stairs of it. And it had huge stairs leading all the way up and reminded me of Roman or Greek because there were huge white columns in front too. And big, enormous door, and my guide had gone up to the door, and I followed up to behind him. And as he approached it, and the doors opened, we were on to an entirely huge, long room that had tight tables all down through the center of it. And on either side, as far up, as you could see, were all of these shelves of books and old scrolls, and, you know, like an enormous library. And the only comment that my guide made to me, as we walked into it and passed the tables was, this is where the Book of Lives is stored. And, but that's not where we're staying, we're going to another place, we continued all the way through and into a hallway, and then into another small room. And once we were in this smaller room, there were all these other spiritual beings are rounding it, surrounding it, surrounding what was like, you would think, a conference table or something, as though they were waiting for us to be there. And once we were there, he said, we're going to review your life up to this point. And so the center of the conference table area looked almost like it was clear, like you would think with a glass bottom boat or something. But as soon as he said that, it turned into like a hologram and began showing everything that had happened in my life. And I was able to experience myself, going through all of these different events in my life, and interacting with, with the other people I was interacting with, and also being able to be down or feel as though I was them. And the main things I was being shown were things where either I had hurt someone, by my actions or words, or had helped someone, you know, both things, both types of events were shown to me. And I was able to really feel the pain that someone else had experienced, or the good that they carried away from our interaction, and rippled out toward all of the people that they then interacted with. So that was such such an impactful feeling. Very emotional. And of course, I saw all these places where I thought I could have done better than that I shouldn't have done this. But everyone that were in the group around me, and my guide, were all just simply saying, they were sending out more and more love and saying, no, no, you're you're learning it was it's all part of building and growing, and understanding others. And so it took away that kind of feeling of, of guilt. And because they were radiating none of that at all. And I got the feeling that this group of people, I should know them. In fact, I felt as though they had helped me plan my life before I ever lived it. And that they were there to kind of help evaluate along with me.

So then I would they let me know that I could stay if I wanted or I could return to my life. But they said if you return to your life, we want to show you some things that will happen upon going back to your life. Some of them for sure will happen. Other things may but if other people's free will, allows them to change the course of things, then they won't happen exactly the way we're showing you because everyone has free will. So I saw these things. And then there's something else I know happened, but I don't remember. It's it's been blocked from my memory because I'm the next thing I'm aware of. I was no longer in that room with all of them, I was in a totally different, smaller Yeah, room with just my guide. And he said, before you decide whether you're going back to your life or staying here, wanted to show you some things. And first he showed me off to my right side. He said, I want you to see the prayers of all the people that you asked to pray for you. And how he showed them to me, they looked like musical notes and a score. And I wasn't hearing the sound of the prayers or hearing anything, I was just seeing each musical note hooking one to another, to another to another, and reaching upward. And he said, every prayer has its own unique vibration. And I thought, I'm not hearing anything. But that was the description I was given. And then as they were coming closer, he said, I also want to show you this. And off to my left. It was as though I was looking through the ceiling of the waiting room that my husband and the kids were in. And the doctor who had operated on me was in the doorway of the waiting room, my husband was standing near him and talking to him and the kids were like a little couch behind. And as I was seeing this happening, I was able to hear my daughter praying that I would live. Because when she saw the doctor, she had thought that it had been a long time that they had been there waiting longer than they were told they would that he had come because I hadn't made it through the surgery. So when I when that prayer, her prayer was added to the other prayers, that's when I suddenly felt all of my emotions rush back into me of being human being Karen, being mom, and wife, and all of that. And I said, Oh, I have to go back, I have to go back, I can't let my kids grow up without a mother, you know, know kind of what it's like not to have a parent. So I had made the decision. And my guides said to me, well, as long as you're going back, you will have proof that this all really truly happened. But you will not be able to remember the things we showed you about your future. Because if you did, you no longer would be operating under free will. You'd be operating under this is what's supposed to happen next, this is what I was shown. So you won't remember those things. But you will have proof of all this. So the next thing I became aware of was waking up in a recovery room with my husband and and my kids on either side. And instantly I was filled with this huge piece and love that I had felt the whole time I have been experiencing this and instant memory of everything that had happened. And at the same time. My bodily consciousness was trying to make sense of what had happened to me. And I was I knew I was in a hospital. But as I was coming out of anesthesia, I could not even remember why I had been in the hospital. And because my stomach was had been filled with blood in everything and was very bloated. I thought I looked down and I thought that and I said Did I just have a baby. I mean, I just That's how muddled my brain operating consciousness was. But at the same time, I totally knew I had had this experience and within a few days in the hospital while I was there for 12 days, actually. But I I found out that the man that I had been told to pay attention to did have a right to go in that operating room. In fact you as a surgeon who had been called in to try to save my life and so I'm After I'd get home from the hospital, and had to go back to have a whole row of staples taken out of my stomach, I had made up my mind that I would ask him about what I saw that day. Because I told my husband that I had had this experience, and I really kind of sense that he didn't understand or just thought that it was all part of the trauma I had been through. So when he took me and we went for, you know, my follow up appointment, I did say to the surgeon, you know, this is what I saw the day that you you operated on me. This is the clothes, you were just wearing regular clothes, and you were coming, described it all to him. And he said, How could you know that? And he said that he had been in his office seeing patients, you know, and in a different area altogether, and they had been paged him. And so he had rushed from where he was and into the hospital and, and ultimately saved me. So that's my story.

Alex Ferrari 31:16
And you're sticking to it. Yeah. That's amazing. That's a remarkable story. I want to go back a little bit into your nde for a minute. When you were when you first got there with your we're assuming spirit guide at this point. That was your spirit guide. When you're going up the the big stairs into the building where the book of life is, or the books of life are the other beings that you saw, what did they look like? What were they were they just do see faces.

Karen Thomas 31:53
I really didn't, didn't zoom in on individual faces. And it wasn't even clothing wise, that all of the spiritual people that I saw, while I was there, all were just in just kind of simple white, you know, almost old fashioned Downey yellow, tall guy type stuff. And nothing specific to a certain time period that you might recognize or anything.

Alex Ferrari 32:26
So no name, no name brands is what you're saying. No Gucci, no Gucci?

Karen Thomas 32:33
Nothing like that.

Alex Ferrari 32:36
So when you were when you were in the in the library, if you will? Is it a fair assumption to think that that was the Akashic records?

Karen Thomas 32:47
Since then, yes, I do. I mean, I, after this all happened to me, I did a lot of trying to figure out what in the world happened to me and has ever happened to anybody else. And and I came across a description of called Akashic Record. And I thought that must be what it was, because it the way others had described it, when I read about it later, fit with what I had seen.

Alex Ferrari 33:20
And the the basically, when you were doing your life review, it was your family members there that you recognize that were there watching it with you. Or was it other beings?

Karen Thomas 33:33
Well, it was the other beings who were there that, you know, I said that I felt I should know them. And I felt that they may have helped me plan my life before I was born.

Alex Ferrari 33:43
So there's kind of, like, council of elders, if you will,

Karen Thomas 33:48
Umm, maybe maybe more soul group. But some of my soul group who were there, you know, specifically for this task and others. I assume. We're still operating with me in my life. But I went back to

Alex Ferrari 34:12
Now, when you since then you've obviously you said you've done some research. So do you believe that you did do a soul blueprint, if you will, or laying out what this life was going to be and what you needed to go through in this life?

Karen Thomas 34:28
Yes, I do. I definitely believe in the concept of soul contract.

Alex Ferrari 34:34
Do you do you think that this was this near death experience was one of your exits? Because I've heard that there are exits? multiple points in a life of a soul that you know, like, you know what? This might be an outpoint if you want to leave. This is another outpoint if you want to leave. So do you believe that, that's what happened?

Karen Thomas 34:54
Yeah, I do. I and I also believe that Well, this is my own opinion about near death experiences. I believe that near death experiences happened to you, when you're getting off track, and what your your contract for your life had been. And when you're getting believing things that are going to take you away from the growth that you had planned experience in your life. And I think the concepts that I had, and was so tied into at that point in time, we're all very much about judgment, and about punishment, or lack of it, you know, or being crossing, I call it crossing all the t's and dot and dotting all the i's. And that, you know, if you didn't do this, this and this exactly, properly, then you weren't going to get the reward that other people were. And all of that was completely erased, in my near death experience, because it was very much, you know, no, no, no judgment. This is for your growth experience, and for the growth experience of others. And it's not a matter of being good enough. And of course, seeing my, my father and my brother in the others there also erased that part of it for me, too, because there they were, you know, and they hadn't crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's. And I knew it for a fact, you know.

Alex Ferrari 36:44
So when you come back, you know, I've heard that, from other near death experiences that you're forever changed, you're not the same person that you were beforehand? How did your family your friends, your colleagues, people around you deal with this new Karen?

Karen Thomas 37:02
Oh, yeah. Part of it. Because, you know, obviously, my husband and my husband's family, and, you know, friends that I had at that time, were all oriented, very much the way I had been oriented before this happened. And so we ended up having to sell our house in Alaska, because my career was done, my husband got laid off to we had didn't have money to stay there, we had to go back and temporarily live with my in laws, and be back in the church that I had been uncomfortable with before. And I began to try to share what I had experienced with people. And, and it just wasn't received well. I guess you can put it

Alex Ferrari 37:57
As you as you can imagine, it might clear room in those rooms, if you will.

Karen Thomas 38:02
Yeah. So, so it was really difficult. And I was very different. I had been going through the born again, Christian wife of, you know, you submit to the husband, all things are done in this order, you follow through, and I just, I just came back with lots of different concepts and feelings about that. And so there was a lot of difficulty. I reached a point where I wouldn't even go to the church anymore, because I was so getting into learning so much more about what had happened and how to integrate it into my life. And so that was difficult. And my husband's and I, our relationship became very strained. And we literally had a separation that lasted about six months. And what we work through counseling we work through, yeah, she's, you know, a lot different. But you know, as he said, I didn't sign on for this.

Alex Ferrari 39:20
So this is not the Karen I brought into my life, this is a different care. But that right! Generally speaking, that's relationships. If anyone's been married for a long time, the person you meet is not the person that you're going to, you know, die with, in many ways. And as you both change throughout your life, hopefully the do diversions that are being changed are compatible along the way because, I mean, I've been married I've been married for a while now. Definitely not as long as you but I've been around the block a little bit and, and I understand that we're different people and hopefully, the different people we evolve to are still compatible and move forward together. This is a Stream. I mean, you died it came back and your, your belief systems change. And when your belief system shames it is difficult to stay in a relationship if, if your core beliefs are not the same, I mean just even. It's not that you'd like Star Wars, you don't like Star Wars or I like coffee, tea. It's, you know, completely different belief systems, I could only imagine what you were going through.

Karen Thomas 40:24
Yep. So it was tough. But, but we did work through it. And we did find that our core beings of who we were, were compatible, does love one another. I mean, at the point where we split for a while, he literally said to me, I said, Look, we can work through anything, as long as we love one another, you know, and as long as we work at it, and I said, You love me, right? And he said, I really am not sure if I do now, and that was really a bad

Alex Ferrari 40:59
Gut punch. That's a gut punch. That's a gut punch.

Karen Thomas 41:05
You know, after that timeframe, and after working, it was yeah, I really do love you and you and our family are more important than the fact that your is different. Now it is you from what you were before.

Alex Ferrari 41:23
Well, let me ask you this, from your perspective, because I get this asked I people asked me this all the time? Why do we have to go through hardship? Why do we have to go through pain? Why do we have to go through challenges and, you know, things that are horrific incident, you know, traumas that we might go through in life, whether physical, mental, you know, all these kinds of things, emotional traumas, why do we have to go through it? And why would we sign up for pain and suffering? That's something that from this perspective, is very difficult to swallow. But I'm assuming from your perspective, from the other side, it makes sense. Can you explain it to people a little bit?

Karen Thomas 42:07
Yeah, I think the big, the big thing that makes it so difficult, is we're feeling as though we have one life, this is it, and we want it to be as positive and as enjoyable. And this, you know, everything to go well, as well as it possibly can. But in fact, it's a blip in eternity. And, and that's very difficult for people to grasp, because when you're experiencing big pain, and big sorrow, it's, it's like, it's everything, and it's never going to end now type of a feeling. But what I've learned over time, is that you don't grow from being perfectly happy 100% of the time, the biggest growth times in your life happen when you have to struggle against something. And also, that one of the most important things about our life here is learning to love other people and, and have real true compassion for them. And when you haven't experienced anything, but a hunky dory smooth ride, it's very difficult to feel compassion for someone else who is having a hard time, much less being able to be there for them, help them and get them through and grow yourself in the process.

Alex Ferrari 43:52
I agree with you 110% I don't know, I am who I am today because of my struggles. Yeah, and I'm assuming you are the person you are today because of what you've gone through. So, I hope that gives people some solace some some some sort of understanding of why we go through what we go through. Now, when you were on the other side, what what did it feel different as far as the reality is concerned? Because this is such a dense, you know, physical plane from my understanding the other side is not what was was Did it feel more real that it feel less real that it feels like you were watching a 4k HD television over there? Or, or we're still in standard, you know, tube TV here. What would it feel like? What did it look like? It really

Karen Thomas 44:39
It felt so much more real. Because I don't even know how to put it into words but the depth of the love and the peace and the grace and the beautiful All feelings that you have, allows you to just have so great and amount of appreciation and, and joy, the joy part of being there as part of what a lot of people don't think to mention, either. So it's so beautiful and so real. And so very true and important. And I think many times here in this life, we breeze through days and weeks, and sometimes months. And we really feel like we're just kind of, you know, going through the motions and, and there just doesn't seem to be real solid stuff that you can attach to sometimes, you know, and if the Where did that time go up. And it's just not the same depth of reality that is there. But we're constantly facing things and and helping us channeling teaching us to grow and understand more. And, like I said, mostly love and compassion. It's really where it's at.

Alex Ferrari 46:10
And what was the biggest takeaway you have from your near death experience?

Karen Thomas 46:19
Basically, that we're all here for one another. And in many ways, we are all part of one another. And that if we're going through life, with all our four, focus on ourselves, and then especially and all if all our focus is on poor me, because of this that I don't like, or that that happened, or this that I wanted, where we're just really missing the biggest amount of happiness, and joy that is really here for us to experience if we turn outside of ourselves and learn to express love toward others.

Alex Ferrari 47:09
Now, did you ever go back to talk to that surgeon and like, kind of recant what you'd gone through?

Karen Thomas 47:16
Well, actually, yes. I was in the, in a study group with a retired surgeon. And I had shared my experience to him. And he said, Oh, you need to try to get a hold of this, this surgeon again, I know, he'll remember this. So I looked at an email, and he was still practicing. And so I sent him an email. And I contacted him that way and, and reconnected. And yes, he did remember, he, in fact, he had taught other surgeons what he did that saved my life. And so they were able to save other people's lives. And and he said other patients had shared near death experiences, too, over the years. So that was really neat to recontact him.

Alex Ferrari 48:01
And did you do you meditate at all?

Karen Thomas 48:05
Yeah, that was one of the big things that I learned over the years was to how to meditate and how to actually reconnect with my spirit guide, who ended up being the one that led me through my near death experience. And so I would see him in meditation quite a bit, normally did not communicate any messages to me. But this one time, he communicated his name, and that he had lived with me 1000s of years ago, in South America. And right after that, I attended a consciousness conference nearby where I live here. It was in Raleigh, North Carolina. And a woman was speaking to other people in between sessions. And I overheard her talking about teaching healing touch in South America. And so my antenna kind of went up when she said, South America. And she described going to this ancient site. And having a young man who was native to South America, who had been in the class she was teaching and took her to this site, and how just naturally adept he was at healing touch and that she was going to invite him to her holistic center, he'd be there next week. And she said his name. And when she said it, this whole time, I'd been feeling like, tingles all through me because she's talking about South America. She's talking about, you know, sacred sites, and then she mentions the name that my, that my, my guide had given me in meditation. And so she said, so I actually We broke down in tears. And she said, What? What is that? What? What's wrong? And so I told her I'd had a near death experience. And I told her the whole story. And she said, Well, let me show you a picture of this young man who was coming. And you know, and she said, I can show you the sacred site, she showed me the picture of him. And he looked exactly like my spirit guide, but in modern clothes, and then she showed me the picture of the sacred site they had gone to. And it was called corral. So pay. And it looked exactly like the bright area that I burst into, when I came out of the tunnel during my near death experience, down to the dry, arid ground, and Rocky, and slope upward and, and I described it all to her. And I said, that looks exactly like it looked. And I said, only in my experience, when we got up over the slope, it was all lush and green and everything. And she said, that's exactly what it's like, it's right near the ocean. And because it sits down lower, it's drier in there. But then, you know, lush and green, otherwise, so, so I got to meet him. And it was amazing. It was an amazing experience. And I thought, He's the age he was 30, some years ago that I saw that I had this experience, but here he is now. And it was just, it was an amazing, amazing thing.

Alex Ferrari 51:36
That's an amazing, amazing story. Thank you for sharing that. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions, I asked all of my guests, what is your definition of living a good life?

Karen Thomas 51:47
My definition of living a good life is always looking for the best, most enjoyable thing in every day, and really absorbing it as much as you can. And also, always be looking for how you can make someone else's life and day a little bit better. And it doesn't have to be a major thing. It doesn't need to be some save the world project type of thing. It's who comes in front of you, who you are introduced to and exposed to, and how you interact with them, to show them, you know, the kindness and the love.

Alex Ferrari 52:36
I mean, it's as simple as giving $1 to somebody on the street. Yeah, something is that $1 might be irrelevant to you, but it might mean a meal to them. And I it's something that you're absolutely right, absolutely right. How do you define God?

Karen Thomas 52:57
Love, love so immense that you can't even begin to describe it. Just I can't think of a better word or a better description. And what is good? Well, I was going to say when I was talking about going through your day and stuff, if there's one thing I've learned over this length of time, since my near death experience, which is a long time is that people will be brought to you through your everyday experiences. And they're there for a reason. And you you probably don't know the reason. But as long as your intention is always, you know, that kindness, that ability to give something, then you're going to be really accomplishing something very important. And that I saw from my life review when I saw the ripple effect of how that went forward from those people to other people to more people.

Alex Ferrari 54:11
I agree with you more, my dear. And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Karen Thomas 54:18
Experience, growth and love.

Alex Ferrari 54:25
Karen thank you so much for this being so honest and raw about your experience and sharing your story with not only us but the world. And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Karen Thomas 54:41
I guess I would just say you don't have to have a near death experience. To be able to learn a lot of what I learned was important that I had to learn was important. Before I came back to my life and it, you can learn those same things yourself. You can study about spirituality, you can you can reach out to others that can can teach you and you can have the same sort of change in your life in a positive way.

Alex Ferrari 55:21
Karen, thank you again so much. I truly truly appreciate you.

Karen Thomas 55:26

Alex Ferrari 55:28
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