The Secrets to Better Relationships with John Gray

John Gray is the author of the most well-known and trusted relationship book of all time, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. USA Today listed his book as one of the top 10 most influential books of the last quarter-century. In hardcover, it was the #1 best-selling book of the 1990s. Dr. Gray’s books are translated into approximately 45 languages in more than 100 countries and continues to be a bestseller.

Dr. Gray has written over 20 books. His most recent book is Beyond Mars and Venus: Relationship Skills for Our Complex Modern World. His Mars/Venus book series has forever changed the way men and women view their relationships. John helps men and women better understand and respect their differences in both personal and professional relationships. His approach combines specific communication techniques with healthy, nutritional choices that create the brain and body chemistry for lasting health, happiness, and romance.

His many books, blogs, and free online workshops at MarsVenus.com provide practical insights to improve relationships at all stages of life and love. An advocate of health and optimal brain function, he also provides natural solutions for overcoming depression, anxiety, and stress to support increased energy, libido, hormonal balance, and better sleep. He has appeared repeatedly on Oprah, as well as on The Dr. Oz Show, TODAY, CBS This Morning, Good Morning America, and others.

He has been profiled in Time, Forbes, USA Today, and People. He was also the subject of a three-hour special hosted by Barbara Walters. John Gray lives in Northern California where for 34 years he happily shared his life with his beautiful wife, Bonnie, until her passing in 2018. They have three grown daughters and four grandchildren. He is an avid follower of his own health and relationship advice.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 070

Dr. John Gray 0:00
Because what happens when men are angry and they talk, they get angrier and angrier. And what's happening biologically is his testosterone is going down. His estrogen is going up. He's going into hormonal imbalance

Alex Ferrari 0:23
I'd like to welcome to the show, John Gray. How you doing John?

Dr. John Gray 0:27
I'm doing great happy to be with you.

Alex Ferrari 0:28
Thank you so much for coming on the show I've your books have helped me along my my life's journey and I didn't even know how much I needed them till I got married.

Dr. John Gray 0:38
True for a lot of people you know a lot of people are single go what do I need this for? And then you get married. You realize men and women are different sometimes.

Alex Ferrari 0:45
No, I remember when your book Men Men are from Mars, you legendary book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus came out. And I remember I was I don't know how old I was right? In my 20s. And I started reading it. And it was very, I mean, it just opened my eyes to so many things. So I did go in a bit more prepared for relationships, but then really had to dig deeper in after you get into some serious relationships.

Dr. John Gray 1:10
Yeah, relationships bring up everything that we need to grow from.

Alex Ferrari 1:14
No question, no question. Now how did you begin this journey down the road of how did you come up with this concept the and the idea of men are from Mars, Women are for me this by the way, arguably one of the best titles for a self, you know, a nonfiction self help book ever.

Dr. John Gray 1:31
Yeah, you know, what's unique about that book? And then I answer your question is is not even so much focused on self help, but just identifying how we misinterpret each other.

Alex Ferrari 4:58
Right! Exactly.

Dr. John Gray 1:40
There's so much and we have unrealistic expectations. But kind of how I grew into that book was, as a kid, I never thought I'd be a relationship expert. I was just a regular kid growing up getting high, enjoying sex, all that fun stuff in the 60s as a teenager. And then after Woodstock, I just got so high, I crashed, I said, you know, must be another way. And the Beatles had just said that there is another way you can get high without crashing and that's by learning meditation. So I learned TM, I met Maharishi, just when the Beatles left I met him and stayed with him for nine years. He was a major mentor in my life. I was his personal assistant, I live with him. I taught his teacher training programs. So he was a big influence. They even had my poster they did my brain, you know, back in the 70s, when we started doing research on the brain, they even had a poster they put up on all the centers, 3600 centers with my picture and my, my brain function showing meditation can put you in the state. So I'm basically 50 year meditator is big, big part of my life. And so I was a celibate monk. During that time, I was just I mimicked him, you know, it's like, a master's degree is where you master something outside yourself. You know, bachelors is kind of getting a, an array of knowledge. And then some people go to the Masters, okay, there's something I'm really drawn to, I want to become that I really became him in a sense, and it could give you an answer to any question he would have. And then it was time for me to do my own thing. It was just a natural shift for my PhD, which is original thought. And that happened around 28 years for me and came out into the world and started having sex, haven't hadn't had sex and nine years didn't masturbate that whole time. A real a real monk doesn't masturbate and a real person who doesn't masturbate that for a man, the semen actually starts coming out of your skin I used to when I sweat, it'd be the smell of semen. But it really is going into the brain. I guess I just, I was just looking online and just seeing a lot of famous stars and celebrities other than your geniuses in the past. Practice celibacy chosen celibacy, not, I like to get laid, and I'm not and I'm going online to have sex. That's a whole different thing. But actually learn to integrate that lifeforce energy and only share it when you're feeling a lot of love, because then you don't get drained. Otherwise, people are being drained all the time now. And so anyway, that was my journey. So when I started having sex, at 29 years old, again, after nine years of chosen abstinence, the the I had lots of girlfriends, and I would say to them, Look, I don't I'm a monk, teach me what makes you happy in your body. And somehow that was very acceptable, and even attractive to them. And they did. And I realized, gee, you know, I've been having sex, but I didn't know all this stuff. Women are all different. They had different experiences and so forth. So I thought, I'll just start teaching seminars on sex. That's how I started out because we're very different when it comes to sex and then Nobody disputes that but then keep the sex going. You have to have good communication. So then I became expert on communication. And I became an expert relationships, ironically, was the one thing my teacher Maharishi didn't teach. He never talked about relationships. And part of when you leave a cult It's kind of a cult, you know

Alex Ferrari 5:02
Nice call, it was a nice call.

Dr. John Gray 5:03
Very nice call. It's a nice call. Now he's crazy ones but still there as a teacher, they say that you're not allowed to teach TM if you leave the organization. So anyway, you know, you teach what you need to learn. And actually, I'm a master of meditation. So that wasn't really what I needed to learn. So I didn't teach it anymore. I thought, what else can I teach and it turned out to be ironically, everything he didn't teach. So I kind of had my, you know, kind of like grew up in the shade of a big tree and I got planted somewhere else can do my own thing. And what what TM does, or meditation, different meditations people do, it does open up your creativity to solve problems. So I became a problem solver. The people take my seminars on sex and making love then it turned into them wanting counseling from me. And then I saw in counseling, the big problem was women didn't understand men at all. I mean, they didn't get us at all. And men certainly didn't understand women. And I grew up my understanding of women for men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, through about nine years, I sat in a room, counseled women eight hours a day. And literally people say how can you say women are like this. I said, because eight hours a day, hundreds of women came through my office, and they all had the same complaints about their husband. It was like, you know, we all have our own unique differences. But when it comes to the things that bother us, the most, anything that's bothering you is really misinterpreting reality. You know, now I'm 70 years old and happy guy, successful guy. And I just don't get caught up in misinterpreting reality. Nothing bothers me really. And yet, I still have passion, I still disagree with things. I try to avoid the heated debate about all the trans stuff, it's just like, I just think it's going in the wrong direction. We need to realize that men and women are very different. You can't really know your sexual identity till you're even start knowing it when you go through puberty. See, the big difference between men and women is that men have on a biological level. In order to be stress free, our testosterone levels have to be 10 to 20 times higher than a woman's, and a woman's estrogen levels need to be 10 to 20 times higher than a man's and certain things make estrogen certain things make testosterone, but that doesn't show up till you're in puberty. For a boy at puberty, his testosterone goes up 10 times. And our girl her estrogen level shoots up as well and starts having her period or hormones. So we don't even know who we are in terms of our sexual identity. And I know this most controversial thing, but I just finished the whole talk was coming out of me. It's what's going on in the world today all this discussion. Sure. Back when I wrote Man are from Mars, that was that was the beginning of where the University started saying nonsense things like all gender differences are just constructs of society, and that men and women really aren't that different at all. And I agree, you know, society defines us as men and women, I don't wear a dress, I mean society. If you're in Scotland, men can wear dresses, you know. So that's society saying things. But most societies are actually I would say all historically, they create a culture that particularly supports men and promotes and producing testosterone and a culture that promotes women and producing more estrogen. Because if women can't double their estrogen in the presence of a man, the species will die. To get pregnant, women's estrogen levels have to become 20 times higher than a man's. And so you know, there's certain biological functions evolutionary wise, we created cultures that support well being. Because if we look at heart, the body, okay, we have this thing called stress hormones and stress hormones are great for short term, you know, running away from a tiger as great. But you have to be able to not be in the stress hormones all the time. So I looked at stress hormones, and notice that when men are having stress hormones, their testosterone levels are low and their estrogen levels are high. And when a woman is experiencing stress, always her estrogen levels are low, and her testosterone levels are high for her as a woman, and any man who's experiencing well being the average guy when he's not stressed, his testosterone levels will be 10 to 20 times higher than the average happy woman and a happy woman. Her estrogen levels are 10 times more than a man's and then they'll double when she's turned on. If a woman has an orgasm, it becomes 20 times higher than a man's. So these are real simple things. This is not complicated stuff, you know, people's, you know, we need more research on it. Well, we always need more research on things, but nobody's ever looked at these very simple hormonal differences in terms of in the context of how do you have better relationships. For example, if a woman is low estrogen uh, basically she's in a state of chronic stress all the time. And women are you know, it's a it's a big deal. What are these women do often to find relief is with this huge industry in America called counseling. And that's how I learned this stuff. I'm counseling women all day long. And I learned that women didn't like me solving their problems. Once I started listening more, I had a waiting list for my therapy sessions. And then I started learning that if I can get women to cry, then they leave really happy. And what that is helping them experience their emotions of vulnerable emotions that they don't share at work. And it turns out that when you share your vulnerable emotions that you don't share with anybody, you're actually producing lots of estrogen. And that's very important for women, otherwise they can't get pregnant and nature reward you if you're still capable of spreading the species.

Alex Ferrari 10:42
Let me ask you, because I have to ask, I've had a few people on the show who have been in the presence of Marashi Maharishi, what was that experience like being in front of a Ascended Master like that for and you? I mean, I've talked to a lot of people on the show, you know, eight weeks, a couple of weeks here nine years. I mean, that's unheard of. So what was that like?

Dr. John Gray 11:09
It was magnificent. And my life now is more magnificent. But you see one of the everybody has their you know, if I was a pro basketball player, just throwing loops, hoops, I think it's Scott would be if he's really in the flow, it's ecstasy of shoes. So that's one way to experience ecstasy is being good at something. Well, I became really good at meditation and to become really good at meditation means that you become celibate. This lifeforce energy goes up your spine and lights up your your brain. I mean, it's amazing. That's why all of your great Yogi's are all celebrants. They're all celebrates. Now what I am, I'm still a great yogi to yesterday, I took the day off I meditated 16 hours, okay, and meditative ecstasy and in that place all the time, and it's, I'm still a celibate, although I've learned how to have sex without ejaculating. See, that's the the very high yogic state is that you no longer have to transcend life, you go up to find your high self, then you learn to bring your high self down, and to all of your energy centers. So you create success, you pay bills, you make money, you have sex, you raise children, you have grandkids, you live in the world, but you bring the divine into the world. So if we think of ourselves as humans, the human part of us just a conditioned animal, okay, everything we do, we think we have free will. We don't until we make mistakes and suffer and then we realize that our suffering is caused by us and nobody else, then the divine comes in. That's the divine awareness is that we are responsible for creating our reality. So when I'm upset, I still get upset. It's part of being human, how quickly I come back to not only feeling good again, but feeling better, and learning a lesson. See, all of our freewill is, is we're an amazing species, which is, when we suffer we can, we can say, oh, I can correct that. And I can live differently, I can do different. I can talk to my wife differently. I can talk to myself differently. I can interpret reality differently. The ability to see things differently. That's why TM would teach about creative intelligence, creative intelligence is to be able to look at something new instead of repetitive intelligence create. So let me let me create a way of looking at my wife's complaining about man, I'm getting mad at her. And then I'll react back like an animal. Why not think of a creative solution to not react back like, let's not talk about this right? Now. Let's focus on why I love you so much. And you can do that as a simple thing. If you stop yourself from escalating, you know how arguments start relationships and just rises up. As soon as you're escalating an argument you're in a fight or flight state, men's testosterone levels are going down. This is see a lot of what I say is counterintuitive, because it's opposite of the way people believe today, we're just going in the wrong direction of nonsense. When a man actually gets angry, he needs to stop talking kind of like what they would teach you in boot camp. If you're upset, stop talking. And what Buddha taught if you're upset, stop talking. Forget it. Now you apply that logic to a man he mostly taught men that technique. If you're with your wife, and she's upset, what do we instinctively do? We say things like, Forget it. Don't worry about it. No problem. Hey, why get out? Why? Why bring this up again and again. And again. You know, that's what we say. Because we don't need so much estrogen. When you talk about problems, you produce estrogen. If somebody's listening to you, and your stress level goes down, and when your stress level goes down, you have no problems. Your brain dead balances the problem realizing it's not such a big deal. Now that's what women need. That's why we have an industry called therapy, where 90% of the people who come to counseling are women. They just want to talk and complain, basically.

Alex Ferrari 15:03
Let me so let me ask you this, because I've I've meditated probably the my record is four hours, four and a half hours. Good for you. I mean, I meditate every day, at least an hour to two a day. It's was my goal. That's fantastic. I try, I truly try to do that at minimum. And what I can't I can't even comprehend where what happens at a 16 hour meditation session.

Dr. John Gray 15:28
Well, it's different now than it was then now it's in those days, I had to move, my body would shake. Because it because it had certain blocks to the energy flowing through. So as long as you know, you see people they're doing their little job of beads, they keep doing something, okay, that releases any worry of blocks. For me, it was like, it was just literally like this ticker, like ticker for hours and hours and hours. And if you could imagine and not imagine when you're thrusting having sex? Is there any problem with the time?

Alex Ferrari 16:02
No, do you don't really think about time at that moment.

Dr. John Gray 16:05
I don't think about time at all. So if you imagine that ecstasy, if I just go like this, there was ecstasy, and I would go through, what I now have identified is basically 30 34, levels, 30, to 34 levels of different perspectives. Like, here's a classic, if you read some spiritual books, you'll see you'll see different enlightened type people will describe it differently. And that's because they're experiencing it a bit differently. So here's one classic one, which is you're meditating, you realize that the space around you is unlimited. That was just the most fun thing that I would call that my first real awakening of enlightenment, that was at 28. But even at 24, I remember when I was meditating, that's when I used to meditate like an hour or two. And, and we probably have had this experience, the way I described it, as my mind has found its resting place. Yeah, that's such a nice see, when you're when your mind is, is resting, and you complete it, and then there's a flow, okay, then there's the flow,

Alex Ferrari 17:06
And there's no time and their time stops, you're in this kind of blissful and I use the word bliss, more than anything else. Ecstasy is a good word as well. But it doesn't really kind of grab, explain the feeling that you get, like, you walk out

Dr. John Gray 17:21
Whether different levels say bliss is a level, another level of ecstasy, another level is softness, a cloud like feeling of just merging into softness, all these different levels. And what they are is, you know, most people know about the seven energy centers, people who have chakras. So we're all born with certain energy centers that are that are more developed, and others depend on others to develop, that's why we're drawn, we're attracted to other people. Because in that person's presence, there's a connection that awakens that energy center that maybe is not so open. You know, this is, I have this thing where, you know, for years before I became really famous, and everything the I would have these classes, always 32 people it was like that each person had certain energy connections, they would bring out the best and be as a teacher. So we're drawn to people that have channels, certain channels that are open, that helped to open us through resonance, and we helped open them through resonance is kind of like some women, they just have a channel and you're turned on sexually to them. Others you're not turned on to, you know, just this, it's, it's about the energetic fields connecting. And so, meditation is when you create a channel between different chakras. So one of those channels, which creates bliss, one creates a softness, one creates a level of just a peaceful unboundedness. There's my favorite, I can turn on any of these 34 levels, and then I'm kind of in all of them at the same time. But the focus on one creates a distinct experience. And one of them is where you have this, this presence that comes from behind you and just permeates through you. And there's no you. That's my, when I listened to Ramana Maharshi talked about his experience. That's one of the levels you know, there's all different levels, I can relate to anybody's spiritual experience, you can then see what energy channels are open for that person. And TM awakens, mainly what people experienced during the TM technique is a certain people were drawn to that because Maharishi would his resonating with him with what would help you experience bliss. And then, you know, I remember it was like some kind of cosmic shift on the planet. He called it the dawn of the Age of Enlightenment. But we'd have these classes where they'd be like 1000 people, 2000 people, we'd be all these hotels and we'll be meditating all day doing yoga, then meditating and yoga and meditate. It was like, I was like, the second that were who really started to have like, real, profound, unbounded awareness. I mean, literally, you walk around, you're just, there's no limits to your content. isness is just infinite out there. It's an amazing experience it was just blew me away. Now that lessens when you're now bringing that unboundedness into this body and opening up other centers. But that's one, which TM did a lot. So you hear a lot of TM meditators. And it was like, this other guy did it that around the same week, I started happening to me and they started having another one. And then it was like 1000 people, we're all experiencing unbounded awareness, that's free consciousness, no limits to it. Then the after a while, about a year or two of that. I remember feeling there's this unbounded awareness. But I want to be that unbounded awareness. So I want to be that. So then that becomes another spiritual experience where I am that as opposed to just I'm experiencing unbounded awareness. And then but there's a joy in that each level has its own amazing joy. And then there's I am that. And once you are that, then there's another, another experience to that. Which is that's all it's all inside of me. It's all inside of me. And the only other time I had that experiences, I was on iOS, Tosca. And it was like the whole forest and all the animals are all inside of me the noises were in me, because it's all within me. You can one with your surroundings. Yeah, no, that's I am that but that I am is different. It's a different experience of I'm one with everything around. Everything irrelevant inside of me as me. And then then you realize that's sort of the dissolution of the ego. Which is it? Is it if I'm that but that's in me than I am. Then who am I? That I am that over there that I am so. So that's another one of these classic phrases I Am that I Am that you can wonder about until you experience it. It's amazing experience because once I that which is all then there's no me. So you kind of wonder who am I? And that's a whole nother Hindu teaching where they would practice neti neti, which I'm not this I'm not this, I'm not this, not this. I remember, Raj knees had a fun exercise where you imagine you've died, and you're gone. And everybody's at your funeral. You know, it used to put that in my seminars a long time ago. That's a fun experience of not not being he said, when when I'm not that. Because I'm that and then that I am I am that I Am then suddenly, Well, who am I? That's your the awareness of your awareness of something. Okay? So it's awareness of awareness is a little bit like that, but it's bit more profound. So once you have I'm not, I'm not this individual ego now. Because what am I then I this is this body and whatever. And it's all one, one, then you connect with source. And if, you know, when somebody's being creative, and they're writing something, or you're you're making a movie and all that you're actually you're right there at source, okay, it's this point out, it's just, you know, the flow, you're in it, and that's the state. And then there's, there's that. And then there's a total surrender that happens, where you realize that, you know, the, the source is doing everything for you, particularly when you're in touch with you're dependent on that. So it's no longer I'm doing it, I'm dependent on that. And I remember for me, always, I'm one of these people who's the first time I do something, it's like, I do it really well. And that's because I was more in touch with source. I've been doing yoga since I was three years old. As a child, I used to, at least it's 20 minutes and next to the heater every morning. And I what I didn't know then as I was going into meditative trance. So my as part of my family, you know, if you were an actor, you had actors who are parents, they be actors, you sort of pass on the lineage. My mother was the you know, my dad taught me yoga, three years old, all doing yoga, the family and this is in Houston, Texas. You know, this is like their way into the spiritual world. And my mother had an esoteric bookstore. And she never advertised as this. She had so many books in her own library, that she eventually said, I'm gonna buy a house and just run out and not run out, just loan out my books. And eventually, people wanted to buy books, and it became the biggest esoteric, spiritual bookstore in the country that added another wing to the house. They didn't do this had a little tiny sign that was it. It's pretty much what I do. I don't do people always ask me for marketing skills. And we're, you know, I just take the calls, that's all I do. Just, you know, it's kind of a bit like that. Law of Attraction thing that everybody is got on for a little while. I've actually in that movie called The Secret. They cut me down to like, only like 1/10 of what I had to say, because it's not just about attracting what's going on inside. You have to learn how to process all the subconscious thoughts. It says it's not going to happen. You know, people don't have that just think positive. You could just be denying emotions, and denying your doubts and denying your fears and then you Gotta go Why hasn't happened yet? Well, because you haven't processed all the obstacles within your being to having all that come into your life. And it's, you know, a success is tough. You know, you look at all these six I know that sounds terrible for people aren't that successful. But what happens is look at movie stars, and how crazy their lives are. Look at rich people how often crazy their families are, you know, in a sense, in Hollywood, you're not a star until you've gone through rehab.

Alex Ferrari 25:27
It's like a, it's like a path, a path.

Dr. John Gray 25:31
But what that is, if you went understand going to rehab meant your life was really, really awful and bad, and people don't understand that. Because the more safe you are to be yourself, okay? Now, once you have some achievement and success, people trust you, they appreciate you if Oh, I can be me, I'm so great, I can be me. Then Then basically everything that's unlike you comes out of you. So you see that, you know, that like bunch of spoiled kids. Same thing happens in marriage, where you know, when you start taking your clothes off with somebody, when was the time when you're growing up where you took your clothes off all the time, your baby. So people get all gooey and baby like and your love is so beautiful. It feels that that's all this essence of who we are and we came in. But can we handle all of the suppressed and repressed emotions and experiences that and belief systems that are limited that formed at that time? If you look at the first seven years of life, researchers say that you're basically all the time in a dream state you're producing theta brainwaves, and theta is what we're producing and hypnosis are in our dream. And so we're constantly being hypnotized. Our whole self esteem as we start out is based on our parents and their heritage and their experience. And then we sort of work these things out. If we start becoming self aware and conscious that we can say, okay, if I'm feeling angry, well, why am I feeling angry? How am I misinterpreting reality? And how can I shift out of that, just noticing it isn't enough, you have to have technology and skills. And these skills are not really known that much through history, because there was an old saying about Pandora's box, you know, you've heard of Pandora's box. So Pandora's boxes desire, you keep your as long as you don't have personal desire, and you're more of a community collected, you don't have a me, because as soon as you have personal desire, then then you have passion. And if you don't get what you want, then you're passionately negative. So that's the demons that come out as soon as you start having self esteem and you start looking at what do I want? And so cultures to great extent and push down people from what do you want, what do you want as opposed to a collective it's the family, you respect to parents, you respect society, you give your life your country, you know all that, that thinking and then you got Buddhism over here saying, for some people would interpret it to be give up desire, when really he was saying give up attachment to desire, but it was minimizing desire, because, you know, if you analyze some content people in life, they don't, they're happy with what they got, they don't desire more. And what happens is kind of like a man when he retires, he stopped wanting and his testosterone goes down, he dies within three years once he retires, that's what the statistics show life insurance policies

Alex Ferrari 28:21
With desire, John, when we the concept, I love that the concept you're talking about that? You know, are you saying that we as a species are as people eventually like the Ascended Masters, the yogi's of the world, they these these people? Do they just think of themselves completely connected, that we are all one as opposed to an individual person that's like it separate from everybody else?

Dr. John Gray 28:52
Okay, I think I think of it like that I just talked about it happens for me, it's just where I put my attention. There's one one part if when you're when you're in the source, you're one with all right. But the experience of one with all is there's no one. It's hard to describe these things. You're, you're part of the part of source, just what is and there's an awareness of what is and so according if we go to the source, you and me are the same, but I see you completely different. I'm completely different because I also am integrated that I'm also an individual, a easy way to say it is like there's a big ocean. And you're WAV and I'm a WAV and we're all made out of the same thing. If you go back to maharishi's teaching TM, which is a great beginners technique for everybody and maybe some people do it the rest of the lives with with Marguerite, she used to take these flowers and he would look to see the little petals, the green petals and the white flower and the green stem. If you go a little in, you'll find the SAP and even though it turns white here, it's still sapped and even though it's green here, it's still sad So that's the, the unmanifested state of life. So the source is a one source one ocean. And part of enlightenment is to recognize that you are one with the ocean and you're a wave on the ocean.

Alex Ferrari 30:12
And you are the ocean. It's like taking two bottles of water out of the ocean. You're separate. You're both water

Dr. John Gray 30:21
You're in a bottle, you know, I'm the ocean. I'm a little piece of the ocean.

Alex Ferrari 30:25
Right but then the insanity is that like, I'm the bottle

Dr. John Gray 30:30
The insanity is and the bottle and also there's another insanity that I'm the ocean. Right? Okay that there's a another saint in India. I like talking about my experiences in India. I've been doing like a lot a lot. But another state Mayor Baba is quite famous. And he he used that to beat himself every day. Just to what what was he do? He can't remember exactly. Now it's going back too far with with Mayor Baba. But Mayor Baba went around to mental hospitals. And he said, half the people in mental hospitals are all God realized. And that they think that they're one but that they think they're god. Okay. So many Jesus's in the middle hospitals, okay, and in the Buddha's in mental hospitals. But see, they have this experience, and they no longer hold it in the bottle. But they think they're the ocean. And, and part of being logical and reasonable. And living in this world is yeah, I'm one with the ocean, but I can't even lift more than 150 pounds, okay. And I have all these human traits. And you we are human, the human part of us is, is a part of us, there's an old saying, which is to err, to make mistakes is human. And then add to that and to be divine is to learn from those mistakes, and change your ways change your way of thinking, change your way of behaving, behaving. And what's happening in the world today is we're going to a little regression at greater freedoms. See, this was the 60s and I'm going to talk a little bit about what's in my book, which I think for relationships out here beyond Mars and Venus. Because what's happened in the world today is dramatic changes. And it started after World War Two. And what were two was supposed to be the, the world the war that ended all wars, right. And so what you saw in the 50s, and then into the 60s was freedom, more freedom, when you have more freedom than anything which is suppressed inside of you comes out, okay. There's just that's why you see people who get lottery tickets, they win the lottery, they're really happy for a while, then they go right back to the unhappiness that they had before. It's literally when you feel I'm safe, I can be myself that every part of you that you push down to be yourself comes out. So that's looks like that's all therapy is about is to look at all of our conditioned reactivity comes from unprocessed experiences from childhood. Because imagine, here you are a child and your parents are punishing you. And you feel like oh, if I'm not perfect, I don't deserve to be loved. That big misconception. We're all imperfect. And we all deserve to be loved. But we have to learn how to learn from our imperfections and continue to grow. So it's a real simple thing. And a child doesn't know who they are. We all come into this world. Sure. With love and and openness and mainly just open and loving. Put it that way. Joyful, joyful, hopeful, you know, it's a wave of positivity. And but who am I to deserve that we look in a mirror just like today, I had to look in the mirror and brush my hair. How do I know who I am is how I'm treated or how I'm seen by others. So if I'm being punished a simple basic thing is that then, oh, well, I was I was imperfect. And so I if I'm imperfect, I don't deserve to be loved. I deserve to be punished. I deserve to suffer. I don't get to do and how to change that conditioning. So that when you make mistakes here, I'm an adult and make a mistake. Okay, learn my lesson and let it go. Instead of holding it on, you see, we tend to hold on hold on, and some people it makes them so lacking love that when they make a mistake, they want to admit they made a mistake, because they're so deep down inside, afraid that if somebody found out I made a mistake, I would lose love. And so, so we have a lot that all you know, it's a whole world of psychology and our suppressed feeling and all that. So when I hit these high levels of enlightenment, all that stuff came up, and that's called dark night of the soul. That's another stage of enlightenment is the stuff comes up and you have to It's like crazy stuff. It's you have to tame your arrogance. You have to tame your outrageousness. You know, there's kind of a cliche of these these big stars, they have such big egos and you have to give him some latitude because everybody's saying yes to them all the time. Um, you know, so and so they become very impatient, they become very irritable, they get depressed, they want to take drugs to avoid all the feelings. And then, you know, I do all the meditation stuff. And for me, I then went to China. Were my ideas are continuing the blossom. China has no problem saying men and women are different. America, I was cancelled in America in 2000. You know, I am the ultimate sexist and the idea of universities. You know, one of my daughters went to Berkeley and, and her social studies, that teacher was holding up my book, you know, saying this is the sexism, because metaphor, Mars was the number one best selling book of all books in the 90s. And it was ugly. And the teachers, you know, dissing my book, and quoting me and my daughter, there's just said, you know, I know the author of that book. And I don't think he's ever said that. I know, he wouldn't think what you just said, Have you actually read that book and the teacher? To her credit? She said, No. You see that just to say, men and women are from different planets means you're a sexist, as opposed to, what I sincerely want to do is help us understand our differences in a positive way. Because if we don't understand our differences in a positive way, then when they show up, men think women are crazy. And women think men are narcissists. That's what's happening today.

Alex Ferrari 36:22
So what is it? What are the biggest differences between men and women in the way we communicate with each other?

Dr. John Gray 36:27
Okay! We're talking two time periods. Okay, so let's talk a little about men are from Mars. And usually people relate to this when they have children. Because in the old days, people used to get married and have kids, right. So as soon as you're getting married, you have kids, you've made a commitment, your heart is open. First of all, you're getting naked with somebody. That means all your conditioning is going to come up. Because it brings back all the childlike emotions of fear. You know, children are crying all the time. You know, they're, they're laughing, and they're crying, and they're all that's a lot of emotional pain of feeling. Nobody hears me, nobody's there for me, I have no power, I can't get out of this crib. You know, these are all repressed emotions, and they don't show up until you feel more mature and self esteem and more in control of my life than the feelings of out of control powerlessness. Start to come up and even betrayal. You know, such a big deal. But oh, my partner betrayed me we make such a big deal out of betrayal. When a child has that emotion, because one day we're happy and attentive to the child, we begin to think, Oh, everybody loves me. And then one day, you're having a bad day, and I'm being ignored. I've just been betrayed. This is the way couples are, you know, it's a couple they spend time together man's attended to her, she's loving Him, He's loving her. And then he needs to go to his cave. Okay, that's a very popular phrase of men are from Mars. Now we have man cave, and all these things that became part of our culture. This is like really important for women to understand that for men, when they get really close, they need to pull away. And I talked about that, like the rubber band theory, I said, and men are from Mars men, they get really close to woman and a certain point, they just need to back off find themselves again, oh, they don't, they're not thinking by myself, again. They're just thinking I need to be do my own thing. I can't just be with her all the time. And women shame us for that if they don't understand this, because connection when you're together and you're sharing and all that connection increases estrogen. Being alone increases testosterone. Feeling independent, increases testosterone. So now, biologically, people didn't understand hormones a long time ago, they just understood that, hey, he needs to go off and do his thing. Don't take it so personally. But today, we all think we're supposed to be the same. And it was sort of built into a marriage even because the man was the provider. So he would go away, because he loved her. Think about that. I'm going away to do my job because I love you. And a woman's going sure he loves me because he going away. But now we have a society where women don't need men to go out and make the money. They're out there making the money to do so now. They're both going away. Right? And, and connection. She's not getting the connection she needs. And we see that by women's hormonal imbalance today. You know, I was just having a debate with some woman talking about, you know, there's no sexes and I and she said, I know all about hormones. I couldn't have children. I had to have four years of hormone injection. I said, you know, people don't really need to take hormones if they're healthy. Women are designed to make babies. I remember one time with Connie Chung did an interview with me. She was this big interviewer assuring and she was ferocious feminists. Right and, and I as I knew her husband, I'd seen him put his hands on the women back backstage. So clearly they didn't have a monogamous relationship. And clearly she was a workaholic. And, and not a happy woman clearly and so she wanted to interview me one of the highlights of my success by me in New York and I knew Connie is I'm not going to walk into somebody who's so negative. And so I said, Okay, I'll do an interview, but you have to come to California. And so that they call back and they said, Okay, we'll meet halfway in Chicago. And she interviewed me for three hours. It was it's one of those typical things a hit piece, okay, first, the first hour was really sweet. Next two hours, we just hit peace, hippies, hippies, hippies, questioning everything I say again, and again. And again. Fortunately, I was trained. And I'd learned through experience how to deal with this because this is such a controversial subject. I had to learn to keep my cool. All right. If you lose your cool, you're not always trusted. And she was sitting in a director's chair, you know, the elevate up on it. And I'm on my director's chair. And then she started after all these sweet things. She said, she started saying things like, Oh, Your mother must have thought you really exaggerate things? And I said, No, I think my mother thought I had a lot of confidence. And, you know, she'd say, Well, you're not really a man's man, are you? I said, Actually, I'm a stud and I love basketball. But you have these sort of things that get at me. And then she went through in this one question she did like 10 times. Who are these blonde bimbos who just want to talk about their feelings when they get home? This is where she fell out of her chair and she fell out of her chair three times. In this interview, she was so frustrated with me because I kept my cool. Who are these blonde bimbos? And I said, What Connie, they're not like you they're not workaholics and they really care about having a family. What they do is they they rally you up, and then they'll take like a minute, 30 seconds out of this and 30 seconds. And so she kept doing that when kept getting more frustrated with that and but anyway, that was actually the thing that was in the show, which is women, so you say women need to talk about their feelings. She didn't say blonde bimbos. But she said, so women have talked about and you say they need to talk you don't need they don't have to have solutions. See, that was a foreign concept to her. She's so I'm into solving problems, and and back, and I have to say this is back in the 90s. Almost all women knew that they needed to talk and their partners weren't good listeners, you won't see that today. Women basically come home from work and often don't need to talk, they're so masculine. And see they've lost the connection to their femininity, they don't have the experience of talking about what's going on having someone listen, it's not our fault. It's also men don't know how to listen, we'll listen a little bit. So don't worry about that, oh, forget that no big deal, which just makes it not safe for her to express what she's feeling, and how to validate her feelings. That was a big word back in the 90s. I want my feelings to be validated. You don't hear that that much now, but that's really what we need to do. And there's a real problem there. Because how do you validate somebody who is saying, you know, it's difficult to walk in high heeled shoes, you really kind of think well just don't wear high heeled shoes. You know, if I know for me, it looks it's never been that important to me. How I look, not a big deal is what I do. And what men often don't realize how important it is to say things like can you look so beautiful? And and remember how you looked at her in the beginning and look at it that way? Oh, that That dress looks great on you. You're so beautiful tonight. See, these are like little things to say that you don't instant instinctively come up with. But when you start doing it and seeing that makes her happy, then you actually start believing it and noticing it. For example. I go on walks with my wife and she is really very feminine. And she looks at little flowers. She Oh, look at that little flower and look at I would never seen those flowers going to my goal, you know and, and I told her it's so nice to be with you. It's like you bring color into my life. You know, I'm so focused on achieving whatever. And that's not all men. It's what it is. It has a lot to do with the balance of masculine and feminine energy in your body. And what's happening today is a crisis and that the balance has swayed in the wrong direction. Men have gone to their female side but they can't get back to the male. So you know here I'm very masculine. I work hard. I did. I'm very feminine and very soft and tender and loving. I got it both that's that's what our souls are wanting is to incarnate the spirit, which is both masculine and feminine. left hemisphere, right hemisphere, testosterone estrogen, and they're not equal in terms of the same. It's finding the right balance for you. And so if I put myself if I'm playing tennis I'm gonna make I'm gonna make testosterone competition. It makes testosterone. If I'm getting a massage someone doing something for me, estrogen goes up. These are like, you know, I've got a huge list in this book of circumstances and situations, that attitudes and behaviors and circumstances and relationships that will stimulate the hormone your body needs most. And if it's a man today, the hormone men need most is more testosterone.

Alex Ferrari 45:24
Well, let me ask you a question. I heard you in another interview, say that if you inject testosterone, or inject estrogen for women, it does something but it doesn't protect you against heart disease for men and things like that. Can you explain that a little bit?

Dr. John Gray 45:39
Yeah, okay. So better to make it than to take it. And the fact that you need to take it means you're out of balance, you're just out of balance. There's so many ways for a woman to produce estrogen. And one of those ways, for example, is therapy. Not that I'm promoting my business. But therapy has become huge. And 90% of people go to therapists are women. Why? Because they sit there and they talk and they talk and they get addicted to it. I'm not in favor of all kinds of therapy. I will listen to validate. And then I will point out to a woman that she's responsible for everything that happened to her. If you if you just indulge people into their emotions, validate Yeah, you're a victim. Yeah, you're a victim. Yeah, you were a victim. Now, what do you How did you contribute to that so you can change? See, everything about being human is learning to become aware of our imperfections. And then learning from that, and changing, pivoting, doing something new and different and out of compassion? I mean, I have to say, nobody knows how to do this today. Because we're in a different world. If you're a man and you're upset with your wife, generally you get an argument and it escalates. Right? So what the new rule is, soon as you start to escalate, you say to your partner, let's not talk about this now. And let's talk, let's focus on what we're grateful for. That sounds so fake, and woowoo. Right? And we will, but it is what works. It what's crazy, is if you're angry to talk, because what happens when men are angry, and they talk, they get angrier and angrier. And what's happening biologically is his testosterone is going down, his estrogen is going up, he's going into hormonal imbalance. When he goes into hormonal imbalance, blood flow stops, to the human part of his brain. And he's reacting based upon the conditioning of his childhood of his ancestors all the way back to monkeys, even raising your voice as a monkey trait. Monkeys cannot communicate. So they talk about the importance of something, this hurts, well, you didn't change. So this hurts, see it gets higher and higher and higher. This is all primitive conditioning, we need to recognize when we're animals, and stop being animals. And so when are you most a human is when you're feeling grateful, right? When you're feeling happy. When you're feeling hopeful. When you're feeling pride, all of these things is who you really are. And life triggers us to go back into the conditioning of a child or all the way back to being a monkey a survival instinct coming out. We have to regulate that. So I because like you said, it's woowoo so now I'm playfully saying if you want your relationship to be better besides reading my books, join the John Gray cult for three months. That's it, I don't want you anymore. It's a cult leaders want to take over your life. Take your money. No, just give me three months to change your brain. Okay? Because right now, if you escalate in a relationship, arguing back and forth, why are you right? Why is your temper going up? Because you're using it to intimidate the other person to push your point on them. So and why do women complain so much with a complaint when they do not all women complain so much. But when they do complain, why they complain, they want you to change. A loving relationship does not demand change for you to be happy. A loving relationship allows you to experience greater happiness when you're with your partner. So if you're blaming your partner, you need to get a life Life gives us our foundation, then we look to our partner to become happier. And so then what happens is we are not we blame our partners for things we complain about it and then then it escalates. What does it escalate talking? Don't men should not talk if they're if they're angry or upset. Don't talk don't die soon as you put it into words. estrogen levels are going up and testosterone is going down. This is simple rule. Now any therapist today almost any therapist with a no no. This is a safe place to talk about it. I remember in the beginning of my marriage with Bonnie we've married for 34 years she passed and four years ago but we went to counseling at one point and just made it worse. You know I made worse it there. How do you what are your complaints? What do you feel On and we all listen to that. Okay, John, what do you feel when she says that? I better not say what I feel when she says that.

Escalate it, he says, But if this is a safe place to talk, I said, okay, okay, well, I think she's full of it. That didn't happen at all. She's overreacting to the show. And then my wife goes, see, see, that's what he does at home and walks out of the room. Okay? This, this is like child's play, you don't encourage somebody to express negativity at their partner. So what I do in couples counseling is at first, I have to see him alone, till I train them, to see how they ruin their relationships. Because we always as a child, we only see as a monkey, it's always somebody else's fault. That's how you know you're in your monkey self. When your unhappiness is due to somebody else. Somebody can hit me, yes, this bruise came from them. But I can be I can let it go, my body can heal. And I'm not walking around going, gee, I've been bruised, I've been bruised. I've been bruised that bruise, you know, and the way that looks in marriages today, which is just so sad. Well, I still can't trust him. It's, it's 10 years later, he had that affair. I just can't trust him. Are you kidding? He stayed with you after you roasted him over the coals, you know, there's so much extreme at all, or nothing and demands for perfection, never letting go of the past holding on to things and learning how to be in present time. meditation helps that. But it doesn't do it all, after I hit a real high level of enlightenment is at 2020 28, something like that. That's when all the attraction to my Guru went away. Literally, I could do better than him. What I was looking for, and there was in me. And so it was like a letting go. That happened. I didn't know what was happening to me. All I knew is that I just timed to go. Because I was a total devotee. Basically, I absorbed him and was a good guy, but not me, so to speak, I let him sort of be the the father in my life is kind of like that. And again, what's missing today, and particularly in the black community where we see so much violence? What's missing is no fathers. Those guys have fathers. They need role models, and they need mothers who love fathers. How can you feel loved as a male growing up if your mother doesn't love a man, not you as a child?

Alex Ferrari 52:24
Well, let me ask you a question. There's so much stuff happening in the world today. I mean, I feel like the whole world is going through this massive shift between climate change between political issues between the pandemic and now this war, you know, on the verge of world war three, what do you believe is happening to the world? I mean, you've been around a few, a few, a few blocks, a few years, you've been around the block a few times.

Dr. John Gray 52:48
I'm 70 years old, I've been watching the whole thing and it's the loss of self. Okay, now think about what we and you talk about spirituality, Alex is, is finding yourself and others is that unity experience, right? I'm different from you. But I also have you in Me, too. That's what that's what sex is, basically, is that when you're this guy, and you're on your male side, you get horny, you want to go into a woman with love. And by going into someone different from you different polarity from you, you feel ecstasy, you feel joy, if a happiness you feel pleasure by going somewhere else out of you. Okay, this is what a relationship is a teacher for us is that I'm interacting with my wife and she'll say things that bother me, I need to take time to go in and validate that and to do to validate her difference. She's different from me, okay, she likes order. I like mess. But I'm drawn to her because she cleans up messes So, but I'm a messy guy, right. And I didn't realize how messy I was a gel until Bonnie died. That's left my own devices, I was just a mess. So, so I'm drawn to her because there's a sense of order and cleanliness and duty that she has, and I just was not in touch with inside myself. So I'm drawn to her, she has a quality that I want to find within myself. And so by overcoming challenges and arguments, and whatever, were the differences show up resolving them as finding the good and what her perspective is within myself. Okay, so when you don't have a self when your heart is not open, you can't find the good and what others say. So you polarize? You know, we got half the country thinking one way and hating those and these other ones thinking they're stupid, you know? It just is because people don't have the capacity of an adult which is capable of holding opposite simultaneously. I can hear what you have to say without becoming offended. I can hear what you have to say I can consider it I can think about I can find a part of me that if I was in your shoes, I'd feel that way to see that's what men are from Mars. Women are from Venus is all about just teaching men. I mean, they say you got to understand and look at our culture. Here's a little example. And they give some little examples. You go to the airport, what you'll see is pictures of partially naked women on all the covers of the magazines. Okay, this is what's sexy. This is what's desirable. This is what gets front pages if you have one body type. And that's considered beauty, and wrinkles and age not considered beauty. You know, for me, guys, you get older your hair goes gray, you're more trustworthy, you know, you got some wisdom on you, you're getting older is more power. For men, having a young body is more powerful for women. And then it's a downhill after that. So what I have to do is be conscious of the conditioning that our culture puts in her into that she's not desirable as she gets older. And you have to counter that by every day. Oh, I get my wife, four hugs a day. That looks so beautiful. Tonight, let's dress up, create opportunities where I'll dress up so she can wear some pretty clothes that makes her feel more beautiful. Because her body alone isn't as beautiful as it used to be, according to our cultural standards, and so forth. Having a great sex life is important for women to be orgasmic. You know, when a woman's not having a regular orgasm really hard to have self esteem. And then she goes over to her male side said yes, I have self esteem, I'm, I can do this, I can do this. And I can do this. And yeah, and she can't sleep at night, and she's on antidepressants, and she's, you know, having all kinds of psychological issues. She's not happy. And of course, she blames her unhappiness with my husband did this and he did this and he did this, then I would be happy. No, you're just not happy. You have to wake up and realize enlightenment is recognizing you're in charge of your emotional responses. You can't change everything in the world the way you want it right now. But when your hearts open, what you find is amazing ability to love, which says you're not perfect. But you try. That's what I was an audience of 7000 people and everybody, if I have a big audience that I'm going to sign books for five hours, right? So I get about one and a half hour talks, five hours, pictures, signing books. And this is one of that where Bonnie was there. And I it's just a disaster for her because while I'm signing books, they all go up to my wife. Oh, what's it like to be married to John Gray?

Alex Ferrari 57:08
It must be perfection.

Dr. John Gray 57:10
Perfection, you know. So he must go wild up after five hours. It just horrible for her, you know, as the same question even but that was just boy. And anyway, so I said, Listen, I told everybody don't ask my wife to question What's it like to be married to John Gray. Okay. And don't tell her she's so lucky, please. He's lucky to be I'm lucky to find her. All right. So. So I want to bring her on stage. And she's not a stage person. You know, she I'm, I love audiences. She's not she more personal opposites attracting? Then, as she as she agreed? I said, Honey, would you come up? You don't have to just answer those questions once and then you have to hear them again. She laughed. So she come up on stage. I said, So what's it like to be married to me? To answer that question? She says, I love you. Okay, I said, Honey, I think they want more words than that. And then it says, if you can flush that out a little bit, I think they'll feel like they got their question answered. And what's it like to be married to me. And she said, he really tries I say that you have to get it. i My wife loves me, I have a great sex life, we have harmony. And all I have to do is try, you just have to try. Now I would add to that intelligently try. But you know, don't give up. If you're if what you're if you feel like it's impossible, realize you don't know what you're doing and find somebody who knows what they're doing and learn from them. That's what we have to wake up to is everybody needs to have somebody knows more than you about a place where you're not that great. And today, we're really not that great in relationships at all. It's a very, very unhappy world today. And biologically, we're in a very unhappy world, we're looking at men's testosterone levels on the whole order 20% lower than where they would have been 20 years ago. 20% Lower. Now why I say testosterone is so important for men is that you can measure how stressed a man is by the balance of his testosterone estrogen. And I say that not because a lot of studies saying that. But the studies say that when a man is stressed, his testosterone levels are low. And the studies say that when you're emotional, your estrogen levels are going high. So the basically when a man is angry, his testosterone is going down because he's in fear. You know, anger is fear. If you say to an angry guy, that lack of emotional intelligence is another thing I talked about. But the gender intelligence you make quick changes. It's quite amazing. Emotional Intelligence takes a little longer. If you're angry, you're not just angry. You're also disappointed and you're also afraid if you're if you're not afraid, you're like the world is your oyster. You're cool, calm and collected your patient. You know we become irritable and patient are demanding because we don't trust that we're going to get what we want. And the only way you get what you want is to let go, you're desperate ness and your neediness and your negativity and demanding. Meditation teaches us how to pivot. But it doesn't help us to identify emotional intelligence or gender intelligence doesn't allow us to understand what what our reactions are, instead of denying reactions in a sense, I spent nine years and bliss denying all negative emotions, I could do that because I was not out in the world having to earn money. I'm a monk, right. So it's an easy life. If you can enjoy meditation, and fasting and, and other things, you know, I would fast that's a discipline, discipline increases testosterone. Hard work. And it is hard work in the beginning, you talked about it's hard to meditate more than an hour, I'd get it. And now is I can go for unlimited amount of time, but my back does get sore. And you know, I start to bend over. So I have a solution for that I sit in my bathtub for hours and hours. And ironically, I don't drink a lot is quite very cool. So the water just gives me a little more support. So I can just stay in this amazing state was full. And somebody says, you know, what's the point of that? Well, the point of that, is, at least for me, that's that's my chosen vocation, is helping the world by bringing in more light and love. I am one with the collective mind. And when when I am cleansing out my collective mind, on a very practical level, it's helping the world and it helps the world by I get to do my talks, I do this, and I come from a place which is grounded and anchored into Source consciousness. And when you're anchored in the Source consciousness, you just have a good effect on people, people can begin to see things differently. And in terms of the Maharishi, he's teaching, you have creative intelligence, creative intelligence is not repeating what you learned as a child is and what's going on in the collective mind, you're going out of the collective mind, and you come back in, Einstein talked about this concept of collective consciousness. And when you transcend the collective consciousness, you step out. And in order to take another perspective, and then you bring that back in, and you apply it in some way. And anybody who can step out, that's a good thing to do for the world is to keep stepping out to bring in more. And then what happens is, when you bring into the world, it brings you down, people don't realize this is you know, they put Jesus on a cross, you know, the guy was bleeding and in pain. Just because you're spiritually enlightened, doesn't mean good things are happening all that true, very true. You know, my joke about that is, you know, when you're a white sheet, if you're a bright light, the mosquitoes come, okay. The bugs go after the bright lights. But that's for our own soul growth, because everything that can any kind of upsetting thing that can happen to me and things are upsetting. I process it just like that, and come back to seeing Okay, where's my thinking off? Where's my behavior off? Why am I expecting what's not possible? Or expecting too much? Let me keep finding my balance where my heart opens again. So it's kind of a measure of a practical enlightenment is when you're bothered by something, how quickly can you come back to reality, which is everything's okay. Everything's okay. People are learning all the lessons they need to learn. And I know people because they what about that child? What about all this stuff? Horrible? Those people are not creating the reality. I'm only saying what I'm saying is true is when you're in touch with the source. When you're one with the source, then you start creating your life exactly the way that works. If you're not in Source consciousness, you're like a pinball bouncing back history, family feuds conditioning bank. But so the idea of you create your life is anything that has my life, I know I created, I put something out and they came back. And so what what am I putting out that's attracting that to me? And how can I then process it and maybe I can change certain things in the outer world. I can lean into it. I do. Like right now I'm trying to lean into men and women really are different, and the world's going to shit. Unless we learn how to have men and women love each other. It takes a man and a woman to give birth to life. If we want our life to thrive, we need to have more married couples with children. We need to have less divorce, more understanding, more freedom to be ourselves, which is not leaving our partner because we disagree, but to find yourself in them so you can find more harmony, as opposed to being offended by everything which is just a measure of dramatically low self esteem, which is associated with stress. I take offense if that is just a stress reaction, right? You can't have a stress reaction a less if you're a man, you've lost confidence, say confidence produces testosterone and doing something and you're confident to the degree that you're not confident you'll be angry or afraid. Either you'll become passive or you'll get addicted. So when men are not strong on their male side, they go to their female side. And that's okay. The female side is do what you like. Do what you love, do what's enjoyable sleep in, get a massage, eat, have a bowl of ice cream, okay? Do what you like, produces estrogen. And I remember again, as a teenager, I love that song, do what you like, do what you like, do what you like, do what you like, this was a whole culture of men going to their female side. Fortunately, I found meditation to bring me back to my male side, the discipline of meditation, the cause of it, I'm extremists, I don't recommend that much for everybody. But you got to become extremely being you and that's who I am. And that's part of finding myself because I had so many, so much on my female side, okay, I have all these emotions and all these feelings. So I learned how to be a Buddha, where you simply forget all your problems, and you go state of peacefulness, and you don't worry about this stuff. And you can't indulge, you know, it was more of acetic only eating one meal a day, which I still only one meal a day. Now we have science saying that the best thing for your health is intermittent fasting, you know, only eight hours eat during that time. You know, the world has gone the wrong direction. And we see the results of it. And I'm not negative about it. Because I know that people do not change in a positive direction until they suffer going in the direction they're going. Right? You can't pivot and tell us painful. If people just don't change, we are just comfortable people, you know, I will not go to the gym unless I get fat. Okay, I will not give up ice cream unless it made me fat. And if I'm fat, it doesn't feel good to me. Okay, I want to feel nice and slim. I want to be able to do my yoga exercises and it feels really good. I also want to add my testosterone so I'm a healthy man, I'm having great sex. You know, this is a big part of being human. And if people don't want that, that's okay. It but they don't have a choice. What I do is get people least here's the option and talk about it. You know, this is how you can do it even when talk about sex. Let me take a moment to talk about that. Is that okay, Alex?

Alex Ferrari 1:07:05
Go for it.

Dr. John Gray 1:07:06
Okay, so, here what we have is a society which is addicted to sex. Our society is addicted to sex. Women are addicted to being looking sexy. But men are addicted to sex. And I remember a Bill Maher show I was watching and Bill Maher was laughing because you know one of these famous people who was cheating on his wife. He said, Oh, I'm so sorry, I have a sexual addiction. I'm gonna go to the clinic and Bill made the joke. He just says every man is addicted to sex, if you can get him, you know, what's the deal? Okay? So having been a celibate I understand the power of not letting your addictions control you. Having sex is doing what you like anything which is doing what you like, is being on your female side. So what we now have is a culture of men who are addicted to all addictions is when a man has an addiction. He's doing what he likes, right? Even though it's something that's not productive for him, you know? So, if you can't say something's addiction, unless it has it down, you know, I like to make love. I like to teach. I like to write book. So I'm not addicted to those things. That's just me being what I'm here to do. Right. But if it was causing me to ignore my wife all the time, then I would be a workaholic. You know, if my life was being disrupted by some addiction I have so anyway, finally the research came out. And it shows that when men when men have set limits, ejaculates say on Saturday, they did it with 25 year old athletes. You have sex on Saturday, Saturday night, and then you wait they had to like say now you I want you to stay abstain from masturbation, or having sex for six days, abstinence for six days. On the seventh day, their testosterone increased 50%. If they had sex on Saturday night and that sex on Tuesday night, on Saturday morning, their testosterone was their baseline. If you want your baseline testosterone level to be on a ascending scale for the rest of your life, one aspect of it is have sex once a week. If you didn't have sex, then you went to baseline you didn't get you didn't get 50% You have to be in the rhythm of being in a relationship having sex, and then not ejaculating for six days, on the seventh day, your testosterone will increase 50% It's phenomenal. And I had to look back and realize how did my sex life always stay there? You know, I have good communication skills. And that's a big part of it. Because you know, when a woman's not complaining about you, your testosterone goes up in her presence. If a woman's complaining about you, or remembering something you did in the past, your testosterone goes down in her presence. So average men over 40 they tend to lose their interest. And now they're getting charged up by looking at pornography just to get an erection and Many This is really very, very unhealthy.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:03
So John, where can people find your new book Beyond Mars and Venus?

Dr. John Gray 1:10:08
Alex, this this is if you're married, you have kids probably you want to go to Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. But if you're single, or you're just starting relationship, are you having big problems in your relationships? This is the book, it's written 25 years later, Beyond Mars and Venus, it helps men to rebuild their testosterone without having to take testosterone you make it, and how women how they can balance their hormones and make more estrogen and progesterone communication skills that will do that. One simple one, I like to always get something really practical these days, a lot of theory and stories. The your wife's talking, you say instead of giving solutions interrupting her would get to the point, just know, if she talks and she feels heard her estrogen levels will go up, her stress level will go down, and her brain will shift automatically pivot to looking at what's good about you. And at a certain point, she'll feel more sexual desire for you all because estrogen is going up. So one of the major things to do it is how you communicate, when she's saying things that are bothering to try to maintain a distance from reacting. And men have to have a pivot, where do you go to you go to tell me more helped me understand that better. Knowing that every time you say help me understand that better, you're scoring points with her, and her estrogen is going higher and higher, and then she's going to desire you. And that's one of the things you want long before that she's gonna love you more, appreciate you more, because you're giving her a gift that no one can give her. All day long. She's on her male side, pushing that side of her down. So these feelings will come out. Usually they're very overreacted, they're irrational, they don't make sense at all. You could always use logic to break them down. She doesn't need you to do that. That's what you need to do. If you're upset, stop talking. listen more. And if it's still bothering you, because you're losing control, or you're taking everything personally, that means your estrogen is going up. You need to say, let's not talk about this. Now I need to process it or I need to think about it. Go away for a while do something to increase your testosterone, which anything that is challenging anything, you're good at solving problems, that doesn't have a negative result later, which means don't just go watch porn that will give your testosterone a boost, but it will just drop down again. People who watch porn, their testosterone levels go down, down, down, down. And the Billion Dollar Point industry says has no effect on your testosterone. Nonsense. The only research I can find that backup my point of view here. Besides the fact that I'm 70, and my testosterone is 50%. Higher all the time. Is, is you can't say that science. I'm just giving you my experience, because I don't masturbate. I don't ejaculate. And as you know, I also learned something is not this talk, but as a man, how you can have lots and lots of sex with somebody you love. And not have to ejaculate. Because then you always you have sex every day. You know how many my friends at seven years old having sex every day? I have more time to do it.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:04
But I have to ask you how does how does the woman feel that you're not a jack? Is it she take it personally? Does it matter to her?

Dr. John Gray 1:13:09
It's a big subject. I know we're both multi-orgasmic together. It's way beyond ejaculation. Women love ejaculation because it's a surge of estrogen and a man. Okay, it's when basically his body can't handle that much. Her body can't handle that much pleasure. And now your energy doesn't go into her. So a tension builds up. And the Jackie elation is the release of tension, because your estrogen levels soars. So there's this feeling she gets when that happens. It's really good for her. And it's your orgasm. But when you can have lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of orgasms with her. She's on a whole nother plane of happiness and she doesn't lose desire for sex. Women lose desire for sex, and generally speaking is because the man loses desire for her ejaculates you want to pull away, and that's natural, because when you ejaculate, your estrogen goes way high. Now you need to detach you pull away. Pulling away is actually something detaching becoming back to yourself. Again, that's testosterone producing. So now your testosterone level is going to start to go back up again. And your estrogen is going to go back down again. Because you're pulling away happens in bed, you know, you have sex you naturally curl on the other side, you know what just happened? Okay, it's a hormonal shift that took place. But if you never ever have that huge surge of estrogen more than your testosterone, you finish having sex with a big erection. You know, it's it's bigger than it was when it started when you're a teenager, because there's no big release of testosterone, you still have your testosterone, you still have your estrogen, just kind of okay, we got to get going now. Fair enough. That's a life where you're not addicted to ejaculation that most primitive addiction that men have, and using porn is just disastrous. It creates an addiction to I have to have it I have to have it. And you know, this is where we just have to Use abstinence until you're in love with somebody. When you have sex with somebody you love, another hormone gets produced. Even if you're Jackie late, it's called prolactin. And prolactin inhibits the lustful addiction to sex. And it becomes an ecstatic addiction and enjoy addiction to love, so to speak. So this is all advanced training like advanced meditation. There's, as there's advanced sex, and this is a wonderful world of opportunities opens up lots of books on how to have orgasms about ejaculating and the women love it, and the men love it. But it takes training and it takes physical exercises to do it. It but right now we're talking about practical takeaways with men. If you're angry, apologize for it, sorry, I'm getting upset, I need to think about this. And I'll come back and I'll be more loving again. And when you come back, you don't come back and talk about the same thing. And this is what I say I jokingly say, Join the John Gray call for three months. And whenever a man starts to get angry, or a woman starts to get angry, any tension building up through talking, say let's not talk about this. Now, let's do an airy fairy thing, which is to talk about talking about what we're grateful for what we're happy about, and ignore negativity for three months, and you'll change the neural chemistry and the patterning in your brain. The research shows, if you do something new and different, you will grow brain chemical brain, connective tissue, you'll grow it right then. So let's say I don't play piano. And somebody teaches me how to do three chords. And I repeat, repeat them over and over and over. For six hours, over and over and over a huge part of my brain will grow. They will actually grow. Now let's say I already know piano and you teach me some new chords, nothing happens. It's new and different. If you use your willpower, what separates us from animals use your will to say you know what, arguing has never worked. So we're going to join the cult for three months and retrain our brain and they'll come back with a greater sense of ability to not escalate. escalation is the worst thing in relationships, the best thing in the bedroom. So it's our nature, but let's escalate towards the positive rather than escalate towards the negative. And if you can't just shift right into gratitude, you can say if you're already upset, you can't go right back to positivity like that. It seems like woowoo We're faking it. And so if it seems like woowoo you're begging then let's not talk about this. Now. I need some time to come back to my true self. I need some cave time. Women, you find somebody else to go talk with. You need to talk women need to talk when they're upset talking and you being heard actually reduce estrogen lowers or stress. men forget it temporarily. And then then when they when you're feeling really good. Just think about that conversation and think about what a stupid guy you were. I blew it. I said this I shouldn't have done that shouldn't have said that. And just come back. And here's the apology. This is I got so many books. Well, let me I'll try to stop. But as soon as you said that this is the ultimate apology, man. You don't know how to do this. See you you say Oh, I'm sorry. I should have said that. And she goes, yes. Okay. And you kind of like somebody's good looking down at you. Instead, you can say, you know, I realized I said this and this I was so insensitive. I'm sorry. What guy's gonna have his masculinity go down by saying I was insensitive. being insensitive produces masculinity, you know? Guy. So another one is I was insensitive. You know, I said that thing or, you know, I started raised my voice I just want to apologize because I was very insensitive. Okay, so why and it's your energy, you know, is a power goes down if you apologize for something that it wasn't that big of a deal. Okay, if it's no big deal, apologize, but little things you can always say, you know, I was I was so insensitive. I was a bully. Or I was a boy, I can see I was a bully. Or you could say, you know, I realized that when the way I was talking to you and I raised my voice, I was so mean. I can be nicer. Now. I want to be nicer now. So everything is about acknowledging your accountability was something I called adjectives, which are negative nouns to express who you are, rather than saying you're inadequate. Anyway, so there's so many tools that's in my Mars Venus on a date book. There's so many good things there for Even married couples.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:17
I mean, John, listen, you you have, you have helped so many men and women around the world over the last 3040 years at this point. Thank you so much for all the work that you've done. Where can people go to find out more about your work?

Dr. John Gray 1:19:31
Okay, thanks. Thank you for that Alex what they can do? Well, this is a wonderful book Beyond Mars and Venus is on tape so you can listen to it in your car, whatever. The Mars Venus two words marsvenus.com is my website and have free classes, they're free blogs, you go over this stuff. It's we need repetition again and again. I mean, I have a little note on still on my refrigerator. don't solve her problem. Another one I have another one I have is Don't speak, just don't speak. It's it. Of course women want to say, Okay, what's going on inside? And then as soon as you speak, why would you say that? Well, how could you say that that argument starts so as soon as there's some tension go into, or let's not talk about that now. Let's just focus on the positive and appreciate that's another one. Something I appreciate you about you something. I'm grateful for something I'm proud of. Just shift the brain, retrain your brain to not always go to the negative and that's where it escalates, come back to the positive. Thanks so much for inviting me on your show. Alex is a real pleasure talking with you.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:38
And thank you so much for all the good work you've done over the years, my friend, I truly, truly appreciate it. And thank you for being on the show. Continued success and continued health sir.

Dr. John Gray 1:20:46
Thank you.

 

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