Paul Davids is an author, artist, and award-winning Hollywood film director. As an author, his most recent book is the ambitious 514-page non-fiction AN ATHEIST IN HEAVEN – THE ULTIMATE EVIDENCE FOR LIFE AFTER DEATH? It is co-authored with Professor Gary E. Schwartz, Ph.D., a scientist who is also a prolific author.
In 1990, Lucasfilm contracted Paul Davids to co-write (with his wife, Hollace Davids) six STAR WARS books that weave stories featuring the STAR WARS characters that continue the STAR WARS saga after RETURN OF THE JEDI. Those books, which sold millions of copies in many languages, are THE GLOVE OF DARTH VADER, THE LOST CITY OF THE JEDI, ZORBA: The Hutt’s Revenge, MISSION FROM MOUNT YODA, QUEEN OF THE EMPIRE, and PROPHETS OF THE DARK SIDE.
He has written, produced and/or directed 12 feature films, mainly distributed by Showtime (ROSWELL, 1994) and NBCUniversal International Television (STARRY NIGHT, THE SCI-FI BOYS, JESUS IN INDIA, BEFORE WE SAY GOODBYE, and THE LIFE AFTER DEATH PROJECT), with a film slated for release in 2016: MARILYN MONROE DECLASSIFIED.
His entertainment production career started with the classic, original TRANSFORMERS animated episodes. You’ll find his name on 79 of those Marvel Productions shows as a production coordinator, and he also wrote some of the longtime favorites.
He is a graduate of Princeton University, where he was an award-winning poet, leading to the publication of three books of his poetry, beginning with POEMS TO READ WHILE DRIVING ON FREEWAYS (AND OTHER WAYS TO DIE LAUGHING). Paul Davids’ very first book (also co-written with his Hollace Davids) is a cross between Hawaiian mythology and fiction about Mark Twain’s early travels. The legendary Stan Lee wrote the foreword. It is called THE FIRES OF PELE: MARK TWAIN’S LEGENDARY LOST JOURNAL.
Please enjoy my conversation with Paul J. Davids.
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 330
Paul Davids 0:00
She researched the tomb of Mary in Pakistan, she knows it's real. It's there. And that they they built, I think television towers right there right above the grave, and they have a fence around it because they didn't want anybody fooling around with it. But clearly grave markers. Now let's go to the part of it, claiming that Jesus went to Kashmir. So this was the most dangerous part of our trip, we went to Kashmir, I took my crew to Kashmir, it was recommended by the United States government that Americans not traveling Kashmir was a dangerous, you know, it was war there. Pakistan claims Kashmir, India claims Kashmir at that time, India had control of they had soldiers with rifles every couple of blocks. It was a military zone.
Alex Ferrari 0:56
I'd like to welcome to the show, Paul J. Davids. How you doing Paul?
Paul Davids 1:10
I'm doing well.
Alex Ferrari 1:11
Thank you so much for coming on the show my friend, I'm I am super excited to talk to you. Like I was telling you before we got started. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while, because we're going to talk about the missing years of Jesus and this mystery that's been going around and he made a movie about this topic called Jesus in India. And we're gonna go down the rabbit hole a little bit because you actually traveled to a lot of different places around the world and been investigated and kind of followed, followed this author who wrote another book about the same topic around the world and China trying to figure out the answers to this. What by first of all, what made you want to make this movie in general?
Paul Davids 1:53
Well, the author of the book, king of travelers, Jesus's last years in India, Edward T. Martin, had been suggesting to me for a couple of years that we make a film, you know, based upon this mystery in his book, and I was slow to accept the invitation, let's say, I turned him down a couple of times. And as a devotee of Yogananda, I look for signs of something out there suggests to me what I ought to be doing. And I think it was in 2005, I felt that I was receiving the suggestion from Yogananda, that it was time for me to go to India. And what was going through my mind was, as Baba ji had sent him to the United States, he was now sending me to India. Yogananda was, and but how was this going to happen? Well, this was just something that floated in my mind during a meditation and I didn't know whether to take it seriously. But I did begin to look for an excuse to go to India. And my university. I'm a graduate of Princeton. And I received a flyer from them about how they were having a opportunity to go to India to go to the tiger preserves, and I thought, well, maybe that's the answer. So I put in a deposit. And then friends talked me out of it. They said, That's not the way you want to go to India. And then Ed Martin called me again, you know, he had asked me multiple times at various conferences, about making that film. And he said, Paul, I want you to know, I'm going back to India. I'm continuing my research there, I really think that what I do and my travels there should be filmed. Would you consider once again, putting this together? I said, Give me 24 hours. So I called up a Neil Urmila, who is from India, who was editor on my film Starry Night, and an associate producer on that film. And I told him, I was thinking about it, and would he want to help? And he said, Absolutely. He said, You know, I would forbid you to make this project without without me. And he had so many contacts in India, he was very capable of setting up the whole journey. And so after thinking about it, and and realizing that yellow hat productions, my company had enough money in the account to sponsor this trip to India and get the filming underway. I told Ed Martin Yes, yes. I've changed my mind. We're going to make the movie. Jesus in India. And from there, the next step was planning where we were going to go and in the end and ended up being 4000 miles of different destinations.
Alex Ferrari 5:12
We know it's so funny that that you say Yogananda because I think Yogananda was the first time I heard of the the idea that Jesus was in India. And it's a very intriguing idea. And you know, and I was, I'm a recovering Catholic, as I've said, on the show, many, many times before. And, you know, to hear, I always wondered that, too. As a child, I was like, 12 years old, to 30 Pretty much. It's a dead silence. There's nothing there.
Paul Davids 5:42
There's one sentence
Alex Ferrari 5:42
What sentence is it?
Paul Davids 5:44
One sentence in the Bible covering those 18 years? If I can quote it correctly, I think it was. And Jesus grew in knowledge and in wisdom and in favor with God and man, that covered 18 years.
Alex Ferrari 6:02
I mean, that's a that's almost as good as the Indians takes the fort. Because it's just like, you know, just one line, but it's gonna be three weeks of filming. miscript encompasses a heck of a lot. So, the idea of Jesus being in India, and after studying Yogananda and going down the yogic philosophies as I have, as the more I did my own research in it, and I came across your film came across these books, and Yogananda wrote a book about it as well and actually wrote a lot about Jesus in India. The idea started to make more sense to me, personally, because a lot of the things that Jesus did in India, oh, excuse me, Jesus did in his when he came back, sounded a lot like yogic powers, in your experience, what are the connections between Jesus's abilities? You know, the things that the miracles that he performed, versus the miracles that Yogi's performed in Indian traditions?
Paul Davids 7:09
Well, that's a tough question. That's a very, very tough question. Because you need to line up all the examples of the yogic miracles. Sure. Yogananda mentions a lot of them in his book. But I'd like to take it from another tack and say that Ed Martin, had spent his life researching this project really, for writing his book, he was a mountain climber. He was a teacher of English as far as a second language. And he researched Jesus in India. He got into trouble in his fundamentalist church, when he began asking questions about those missing 18 years, and he was told Ed Martin, you should be worrying about your own salvation, not what Jesus was doing, if God had wanted you to know that it would be in the Bible. And that wasn't good enough for him. For me, the starting point on this ad pointed out, look, the Bible takes Jesus up till he was at 12, speaking with the wise rabbis in the temple and astonishing them with his knowledge. So what would have happened next? Well, the next year, he would have had a bar mitzvah, he was Jewish, it would have been 13. And you know that once? Do Jewish young man became a man through the bar mitzvah. He was married off, they always arranged a match. He wouldn't have been able to remain a bachelor if he had stayed. And then came the question about the Silk Road between India and and Judea. The story of the three wise men in the Bible, and the fact that the gifts that were given was gold, incense and myrrh. And ad pointed out to me those three gifts or specific gifts given by Rishis Holy men of India, to Holy personages, so why, why gold, incense and myrrh unless those three kings are the three wise men were from India. There was the trade route on the Silk Road. And so the hypothesis was, you know, did Jesus return the visit by taking the Silk Road when he was about to reach 30 Jean, probably going with a caravan and go to India and spend many, many years there. So how to investigate this? Well, there were many ways. Of course, it's like a 2000 year old Cold Case. And you can't absolutely prove it. So you go with the adage that where there's smoke, there's fire. So you look for the smoke. Where's the smoke? Well, one of them is that there's the Jagannatha temple. In Puri, I believe it is in India. It's around 2500 years old. And nearby. A couple of things nearby Yogananda was there for years at the ashram of his group tree tesselaar. But Also nearby is the Shankar Acharya. That title is sort of the equivalent of Pope and Catholicism the Shankaracharya. There there actually think for Shankar Acharya is in Hinduism. And I think the main one you would say is there near the Jagannath temple. And we wanted to have an interview with him. And this is where, if you want to interrupt for questions, please
Alex Ferrari 11:20
No, please no, continue. I'm sitting here like around a fireplace, please tell me.
Paul Davids 11:25
Well, I was told by a Neil, who became a fellow producer of Jesus in India with me that there was no chance that I would be able to get an interview with Shankaracharya. Forget it. He said, it's very, very unlikely that the Shankaracharya would even agree to see you and have your picture taken with him. He said, maybe, maybe I could, being you know, native of India. But we went there to the headquarters of the Shankaracharya. And I got to see one of his I don't know whether to call him a helper or an assistant or Lieutenant but and I mentioned to him that I should be considered an honorary Hindu as a devotee of Yogananda because they weren't going to meet with me. It's just a white guy from America. Fair enough. talking to him about Yogananda. He said, This is a different story. I'll check with the chakra Acharya. And the next thing I knew I was being ushered in to a room where the Shankar Acharya was with my video crew, and sat down there to having an interview, which was in Hindi. I kneel or mele asked the questions. And he later worked on the translation of it. The Shankaracharya insisted that their tradition is solid that Jesus was not only in India, but that he was there at the Jagannath temple. He practically wanted to tell me Jesus's course of study. What becomes really interesting is that you see many similarities between a lot of these Hindu teachings and what became Christianity where Christianity differ so much from Judaism, which has a stern God, a punishing God, a God that taught an eye for an eye a tooth for to
Alex Ferrari 13:48
Angry, angry, jealous, revenge, insecure, revenge.
Paul Davids 13:53
And, of course demanded worship in many, many ways and animals. This is, you know, prevalent in, in Judaism. I'm ethnically Jewish. I have not been practicing of Judaism again, I took an interest in the Self Realization fellowship and the teachings of Yogananda This is what really spoke to me. But in Christianity, it's not an eye for an eye. It's the opposite. It's a you know, if If someone slaps you, turn the other cheek, let him slap the other cheek. You know, if he if he takes your coat, give him your shirt. You know, this is it has something in common with Hinduism. And Far Eastern religion but but not Judaism. So when, according to these theories, when Jesus at about age 30 returned, and was baptized by his cousin John, you wasn't it in the Jordan River?
Alex Ferrari 15:02
I think so. I think so. Yes.
Paul Davids 15:05
So he was coming back with teachings that would challenge the very heart of, of Judaism. And you can imagine the Orthodox rabbis in Israel at that time, we're not going to be friendly to someone that wanted to tamper with, you know, with with Jewish religion, which is very strict letter rules like 1000s, and lots of rules, right. So, the interview with the chakra, Acharya was just one of our destinations. I also want to mention that at Martin who had been rejected by mainstream religious scholars and didn't want to hear about Jesus in India, but as a graduate of Princeton, I was able to obtain a video interview with Elaine Pagels, who is one of the great biblical scholars, one of the one of the great experts on all of those scrolls that were found. I think,
Alex Ferrari 16:14
Ohh the Dead sea the Dead Sea Scrolls or
Paul Davids 16:16
Well, the other scrolls there were a lot of scrolls found in an urn.
Alex Ferrari 16:21
Yes, you're right. Yes.
Paul Davids 16:22
Not Hammadi, I want to Yeah, I don't think I know. Yeah.
Alex Ferrari 16:25
And they were, they said a lot about Jesus is some lost teachings and things.
Paul Davids 16:30
Well, I mean, yeah talked about a teacher of wisdom. I don't think there was a name attached. But it was clear from those that a sect arose in Israel that challenged the prevailing religious order. So Elaine Pagels, I got an interview with her. And she personally didn't believe that Jesus was in India, because she found the concept very difficult that she called him a village rabbi had gone all the way to India, if she didn't have any explanation for the missing years. However, as she analyzed it, she said, the thing is, as biblical scholar, we can't rule this theory out. We can't rule it out
Alex Ferrari 17:19
As a as a good academic would. If you have new evidence, you have to keep things open and fluid because you're never right. No one's ever rock solid. Remember, the earth used to the Sun used to revolve around the earth. Galileo had a rough time with that situation.
Paul Davids 17:40
But for her, it was even more than that, in not being able to rule it out, suddenly put ad Martin with his theories on the playing field, as a serious, you know, religious scholar and not a kook, let's say, and not a kook, because the Elaine Pagels can't say didn't happen. All my authority, I could say didn't happen. Now, that wasn't the tact that she took. So the film, Jesus in India, let me say it's streaming online, it may be a little hard to get the DVD. Now the nice thing about the DVD is it had a lot of a lot of bonus features. But the movie is streaming for free. Along with many of my other movies, because I've made I think 12 feature films now many of them are controversial topics that I think would be of great interest to your listeners. But I have now set up my website. The website is Paul David's, and then a hyphen. artist.com. It has my paintings, it has hundreds, my paintings. But now when you go to the menu, the second category is films streaming. And it has the poster of I think 12 by mu, hotels in series. And if you scroll down and you go to Jesus in India, you will find a link. And I'm having a problem remembering I think it's on Amazon. And it's on Amazon can be seen there for free. And, you know, we worked for a couple of years on and it really tells tells the whole story with all the evidence that we could put together and there was a lot.
Alex Ferrari 19:32
So let me ask you when Jesus was in India, during those times in your movie, it was insinuated that he stepped on a couple of Hindu priests toes, as well as a quote unquote troublemaker because he was starting to chat a challenge the ideas of the caste system and the injustice within the Hindu traditions as well.
Paul Davids 19:57
Yeah, that was suggested from our You search that he may have needed to flee where he was in,
Alex Ferrari 20:04
Charlie Chuck, troublemaker this Jesus kid. Yes, yes.
Paul Davids 20:08
And then the story is that he went to the birthplace of the Buddha. I don't know, you know, maybe,
Alex Ferrari 20:16
Maybe, maybe not sure.
Paul Davids 20:18
It was really interesting about the missing scroll, you know, way up in Ladakh, which is, I don't know, like 14,000 feet elevation up in the Himalayas. There is a Buddhist monastery, Hemis monastery. And I think going back almost 100 years now, we can say it's been reported by many travelers, that they had a, an ancient document that spoke of Jesus's travels to India. And there were about four or five well known explorers who saw this when they were at Hamis through the decades, and it was translated. You can find the the document and it it begins after the crucifixion. Do I have that right? Well, I know it's sort of a flashback from after the crucifixion deals with his travels as, as a young man in India. And the whole story is mapped out there about taking the trade routes, and who he met with and how Christianity evolved from his travels and his exposure to Hinduism and Buddhism. We of course, really wanted to see that manuscript, confirm that it really existed. One of the people see this is where I don't have all the names to the tip of my eye. That's fine. That's fine. It was the the Russian explorer
Alex Ferrari 22:07
Nicolas something or other yeah, I forgot his last name. But yes,
Paul Davids 22:12
I think he was the first he was up there. And he broke a leg while he was there, and had to spend weeks recovering. There he was shown the document. And then there was the great Russian painter. Again, the name begins with Nicolas, and I apologize to your listeners, right at the tip of my tongue. But he claimed to have seen the document also and confirmed that it was there. And a couple of other needed noted people did as well. Well, when we went there, we were shown the area where the document would be if it was there, without them confirming this. So these are our ancient documents. And they're locked here. They're locked, you can't see any of them. And I looked at the cupboards, the shelves and and, you know, the doors with just glass and there were no locks on those doors. What there was what it was a strip of yarn just tied, closed. Anybody could have taken a scissors in No, no, no, no, no. Because the head of the monastery had left years ago with instructions that nobody was to open. And there you go. And they said until he returns. Well, believe me with the problems in Tibet. And the Chinese Communist, they didn't even know if he's still alive. Was he ever going to return? Well, we had an interview with one of the monks there who said, Listen, he's he's heard the story, you know, many times through the years. And he said, one of the problems were, if we were to confirm this, this ancient document, Christianity would be very upset, you know, the Pope would not like that. He made it clear that there was pressure on them. You know, at some point, something was exerted on them that they were not to reveal this document anymore. Politics, Politics, if you will, but in his wording. It was very clear that, you know, they had the document, but he danced around it, how he was talking about it.
Alex Ferrari 24:45
It's interesting. It's really interesting, because, I mean, I just recently came back from a trip to the Vatican, and I was over there. So you've been there as well and and walking around the Vatican and Going through the museum and going through St. Peter's Basilica. And us, at least for me, I just looked around I'm like, my god, this has nothing to do with Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with this his teachings. This is all about the power of maintaining power and maintaining control. And the end, the one thing I didn't notice is, and I don't know if you went through I'm sure you went through the the museum as well. The embarrassment of riches. Yes, that is at the end. By the way, Harrison we
Paul Davids 25:31
My I interrupt to say I just remembered Nicholas Notavich was there. There it is. Yeah, there it is. That first question. I still haven't got the name of the of the
Alex Ferrari 25:40
It'll to you. It'll come to you. But as I went through, but as I'm going through that museum, I'm just going oh, my God, this is just how much did they like pillage over the centuries? Because they had things from all sorts of cultures. I'm like, How the heck did you get this out of they'll look at that. And then like, oh, there's Rafael's frescoes. And oh, there's, you know, Michelangelo did this on the weekend. And like, it's so much, and I'm like, that's only what they show. So then let's not even talk about the archives and what lives in the library underneath the Vatican. How much knowledge have they taken over the years and possibly suppressed knows?
Paul Davids 26:18
There's a lot of claims that they have documents proving that Jesus made it but it doesn't go with the official story. So it's not what I want to say I was at the Vatican and I had an interview with Monsignor Corrado Bellucci. Yes, who was the lead exorcist for John Paul the second. And actually, I didn't get to interview him there where I got to interview him. He had come to a UFO conference in Italy. Amazingly, Monsignor Corrado Balducci was Vatican spokesman to say, yes, there are aliens. Yes, there are visitors from space. It's true. These are not angels. They're not demons. They're devils. They're not devils. God created a lot of real estate. Would God have wasted all that real estate with all the other planets and stars? And he said, we should accept this, we should greet them. We may have a role in converting them. Obviously, obviously, you have to convert them, but he would say you know that they're real. Well, interesting. The lady that had invited me to the conference, Paula Harris. She's Italian Harris's her married name. She, I said to her, you know, making this film Jesus in the eye. Do you think I could get an interview with Greta Bellucci about Jesus in India? And she said, Oh, my God, absolutely not. Don't Don't go there. Pause. Don't you dare bring it up with him. He'll never talk to you again. He may never talk to me again. He doesn't want to hear about that. You know, because he thinks it's just nonsense. So I said, But what he let me have an interview with him about UFOs. And she said, of course, go go have an interview with him about UFO. So you want to object to that. So being very clever.
Alex Ferrari 28:20
Obviously, I could see where this is going.
Paul Davids 28:22
Yeah, I had the interview with him about UFOs. And I said, you know, I'm you know, Munson you are. While I was doing research about UFOs in India, I heard from some people in India, a very strange story that I didn't know what to do with. And I just wonder if you had ever heard of it? Because I see there are people in India that believe that Jesus was there in India. Did you ever hear anything about that? Well, that opened up the door, and he did begin talking about it. And he absolutely insisted it never happened. He said, the whole story of Jesus is contained in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, of course, and acts. And I went when I asked him, you know, but what about the missing 18 years, you know, that they're not covered? What what? Missing 18 years? I've never heard of this. I'd never heard of this know the whole story. It's there. And then I had a translator there that asked him again, but once he knew are no no, no, they it jumps in the Bible from age 12 to and he just played down and just said no, I this I've never heard of, no, no, no, this and then he said this Jesus in India story he said, it's false, a false a false. You say it in Italian. And when I put the film together at the interview with the Shankar Acharya who say absolutely, it's true, we know it's true. And that we have cutting back and forth with Muncie you're saying false is a false and false. So you get the divergence of the points of view. But I want to say, by the time I came away from India, I was pretty convinced of all the things we came across and that we we found. And not only that, the other part of the story, the, if you will, the dangerous part of the story, as far as Orthodox Christianity is concerned, is the theory, a conjecture that Jesus survived the crucifixion. That wasn't the end of his physical life in the human body.
Alex Ferrari 30:35
Before we, before we go, before we go down that road, I just want to dive a little bit back in a little bit too, because I'm definitely want to ask you about that as well. Going back into his time in India, I'm gonna play devil's advocate, no pun intended. And add a lot of people thinking like, well, what what's the point? Why did this little 13 year old Jewish boy decide to jump on a caravan and go as a tourist or something over to India? So what is the purpose of it? I mean, I I kind of know the answer, because I've studied Yogananda but what did Yogananda have to say about that? What do you in your struggles? What did you have to say about that?
Paul Davids 31:15
See, I'm not sure I remember what I know that Yogananda emphasize the return visit of the three Wiseman and I don't know whether they claim was back and then that he went with them. I don't I don't got it. Well, I mean, if you look at it, but I do think if they were getting ready to marry him off,
Alex Ferrari 31:35
He's like I got so because it again from looking at it from the eyes of a spiritual master in the yogic philosophies and the yogic traditions and the Hindu traditions. Those kind of things like a you have a mission in this life. You need to be trained, here's your master, you need to be trained in this, this and this that because this is the this is what you came here, and it's kind of revealed to them, just like it was for Yogananda, just like it was a huge Vishwa here and Maha Sai Baba Ji, and this lineage that we're talking about, and that that one just very small lineage, very powerful, but small lineage. And there's so many lineages of yogic of Yogi's and masters who eventually become Ascended Masters. But that, again, because of that knowledge that I had when I heard the story of like, oh, yeah, the three kings or three Wiseman came back, hey, it's time for your training. Let's go. And they can take them to India. And then I heard and I don't know about you. I heard he went to Egypt as well. And he went to Nepal and Tibet, in the Tibetan Himalayas as well. Have you heard anything about that?
Paul Davids 32:47
Not Egypt, just Egypt as a child, it's in the Bible. But Nepal and Tibet. There's a very interesting, ancient painting, showing Jesus in Tibet with I mean, it was clearly in Tibet. That's, of course, I don't know that it was 1000s of years old. It could have been hundreds. It just been based upon, you know, the legends. But one thing we haven't touched on, it's very compelling about all of this, the connection between Christianity and India, through St. Thomas. So after the crucifixion, at some point, Thomas did go to India. It's absolutely a fact. There are Thomas Christians in India, as a matter of fact, my assistant director on the film was Thomas, the devout Thomas Christian. And in Chennai was called Madras and now I think it's called Chennai or vice versa. Not only do they have St. Thomas's original Christian church there, which was, you know, it was rebuilt. I mean, it had to be restored, but that's where it was. The foundation is still there. It has incredible artifacts. We filmed in there. And there is a grandiose Basilica, honoring St. Thomas, the Basilica of Thomas there in Chennai. And why? Why Jesus sent him to India. Why? To spread the good word to spread the teachings in India. And it worked. I mean, it did but his presence there did become the foundation of Christianity. In India. It's incredible. But this connection between Jesus and India is there, proven historically through Thomas and the Catholic Church acknowledges this because John John Paul the second went to the Basilica of St. Thomas in India, to honor Thomas. This is the Thomas the doubting Thomas, who said, you know, unless I can put my hand in the wound, you know, that astounding time as did go to India, the Catholic Church accepts that. So if it for those who are the skeptics or scoffers or dismiss this, why, why did that happen? That's historic fact. There was this connection between Jesus and India, it was important to him. It's also well, that gets us to that second part of the story you didn't want to get to yet
Alex Ferrari 35:43
Go for. No, let's get there now.
Paul Davids 35:45
All right. And let me just say that it's, let's bifurcate the story. It's two different theories. The one is the theory between the ages of 18 and 30. And there's a lot of where there's fire, there's smoke, there's a lot of smoke for that you see in the movie. The other is the claim that the Jesus didn't die on the cross, that He was taken down. That he was still alive. They had to take him down, because by the end of the day, it was Sabbath. They weren't going to have them up there on the cross at that point, but he was on the cross, they say, what, five or six hours and usually, it took people who were crucified a lot longer than that, to die. And then the the Lance, piercing his side was that the blood and water came out. Well, if he was deceased, the heart wouldn't be pumping, to pump the fluids out of a wound, you have a question there. So the thought is of some people that when Jesus appeared afterwards to the disciples, it was really him, the one who had been crucified. And when he said to Thomas, feel my wound, put your hand in, this is where I was pierced. That was, that was Jesus in the body. They say, according to this theory, it was also described that he not only he ate with the disciples may why why would a discarnate spirit who had come to appear before His disciples to eat, it's not consistent, it's only appropriate for a physical body. And then he walked ahead of them to was it Galilee. And then that's a very human thing to do doesn't sound like a spirit, the way it's described in the New Testament at that point. And there came the feeling that he had to get out of town. Because if he was supposed to have been executed, and they didn't finish it, he didn't want to be found there. So the the theory was that he with his mother, Mary, departed to go back to India. And there's, there's a twist in this, that became the very basis for why author Ed Martin spent so many years of his life even investigating this. He was in the Peace Corps in Afghanistan before the wars before Russia, came in and had the war before the United States. Before that. He was a Peace Corps worker in Afghanistan. And he said one day he he liked to drink beer, and he went into wherever you could get a beer there. I guess it was, must have been an American Embassy because the alcohol may have been forbidden otherwise. And there was a beer there that he'd never seen before called Murray beer. And it was spelled m mu R R. E, I think. And he said, I've never heard of this. What beer is this? And the Afghani serving him said, well, that that is from Mother Mary. That is from Mother Mary. Because she died in the town in Pakistan that we call Marie. He said what you know, there is a tomb for her there. There is a grave for there, sir. What how is this possible? Oh, yes, yes. When she was coming back to India with Jesus, she died and root in Pakistan and they named the town Marie. That's why we have Marie beer. The first time Edie heard the story and you gotta realize Edie was very much a fundamentalist. I mean, he was raised that way. He went to church three times a week. For him his life was about Jesus and understanding Jesus like when he heard this, it just put his head into a spin and and And he thought what they're claiming Jesus was in India. So that began his quest and then another researcher who passed away recently and I'm again, sorry, I forgotten her name, but she wrote a book about Jesus in Kashmir. Because clay claim was his final destination was cashmere. And she researched the tomb of Mary in Pakistan. She knows real. It's there. And that they they built, I think television towers right there right above the grave, and they have a fence around it because they didn't want anybody fooling around with it. But clearly grave markers. Now let's go to the part of it, claiming that Jesus went to cashmere. So this was the most dangerous part of our trip, we went to Kashmir, I took my crew to Kashmir, it was recommended by the United States government that Americans not traveling Kashmir was dangerous. You know, it was war there. Pakistan claims Kashmir, India claims Kashmir at that time, India had control of the head soldiers with rifles every couple of blocks. It was a military zone. And when I got there with my crew, my crew, well, our objective was to go to the tomb there that is said by some to be the tomb of Jesus to be the real, actual tomb of Jesus. And they rattle off all the reasons why, you know, it's it's acknowledged by the Muslims there that this is a holy personage percentage wasn't cremated as into would have been. And the positioning of the casket is east to west in the Jewish tradition, not the Muslim tradition. And there is a stone carving there of the prophets feet, showing the crucifixion scar on the on the foot. So you start adding all this together? Well, when I got there, I was cautioned, Paul, you and Ed Martin, you cannot go to the tomb. It's in a Muslim district. They might kill you. So my friend and CO producer, I kneel. He led the Hindus on my team there to the tomb. And it was forbidden to film in the tomb at that point in time, because the Muslims were so upset. They say it's a Prophet from Egypt, all right there who had been persecuted in his homeland. And he came here where he was treated well, well, you know, they are no friends of Judaism, they wouldn't have said it's a Prophet from Israel. He lived his early years in Egypt. So they say he's a prophet from Egypt. But they didn't like the speculation about that, because in Islam, there's a tradition about Jesus, I think, ascending to heaven. And it's blasphemy to claim that. Well, my crew snuck into the structure that houses the tomb, and filmed there. They didn't get a lot of film. They didn't get as much as I would have liked. But they did get some film. And as they were climbing out, a crowd of Muslims had gathered. A policeman had come over, they were getting ready to arrest them. And this is all on film, because they kept the cameras rolling, and they were Muslims. They're screaming, you know, what have you done? You know, this is blasphemy. And the police, there was a policeman there was getting ready to arrest a needle. But Neil said, Look, you know, I'd like to talk to you about this a little bit. You know, I said, I said, you know, I'm, I'm from India. Go, I think and, and the policeman said, Oh, gola. He said, He says, I have a nephew who's playing in a soccer match this weekend in Goa. And Neil said, Oh, really, I have a relative. He plays soccer in Goa, maybe they're playing. They began a friendly conversation. You see her soccer, and the policeman said, Go, just go. And that was that was the end of the arrest. Was that lucky?
Alex Ferrari 44:56
Paul Davids 44:58
So, before we conclude, because we're almost an hour now, and I know we can go a little bit over, but I do really want your listeners to know about some of my other films as well.
Alex Ferrari 45:11
Absolutely. And we're definitely going to definitely want to get to that. So I just have one more question in regards to, to Jesus, it from your research into this whole, the whole story of Jesus. And, you know, what is your ideas? Or what are your thoughts about the Council of the Council of Nicaea, Nicaea and removing certain books, and basically structuring the story narrative of Jesus, by the by, to my understanding the Roman Emperor Constantine did this? Yes. Because the Christians are just getting out of hand, and we need to control the situation. So that like, let's, let's say, Hey, I'm Madonna, Christian, now to and here's the book and, and kind of like if you can't beat them, join them, but control it is, what is your understanding from your research about what happened at the council?
Paul Davids 46:03
That I that is what happened, you've described it very well, they got rid of whatever books there were. In the Bible at that time that didn't fit with the story. I think I've heard that reincarnation was in some of those books. I think it probably included the Gospel of Thomas, which Elaine Pagels at Princeton is an expert on. And it was at that time, I think that they decided which were going to be the holy books of the Bible, and what was going to be excluded. And it was a political decision. It would seem, I mean, some I'm sure there are many believers who feel that it wasn't political. It was inspired by God. They were he was instruct obviously, you know, we can say, we don't know, there's so much we don't know about all of this, and it'll never be a sob story. But what makes it so interesting, that it's a mystery with so much evidence that goes against the traditional beliefs of, of Christianity doesn't detract in any way, not from the world significance of Christianity, it changed the world as we know it. Look how many billions of Christians there are today and how many people believe they find their salvation through that? How many miracles are reported and believe me, I'm a believer in in miracles and many of those reports I one of my films before we say goodbye, deals heavily with Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Hispanic American emblem, if you will for Mother Mary, based on a miracle that happened in 1531, with an encounter between a peasant and a holy mother, who imprinted her image on his cactus cloth that should have faded away and dissolved admitted decrepit and 50 years and here it is about 500 years later, and the image of the Holy Lady is still on that cloth that never deteriorated, never deteriorated. It's still on display in Mexico City, at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and we filmed there with the movie before we say goodbye. But I want to mention what has been really, I think it has become well, my chief work I've done a lot of work about UFOs you know, I was the executive producer of Showtime's movie Roswell, some major stars, Kyle McLachlan, Martin Dwight Yoakam that was 1994 recently in April, a film I was executive producer of called accidental truth, UFO revelations came out. And this really brings the UFO story right up to date. Many of the people who were in the latest of the congressional hearings are in the film, including Congress, timber shed. I'm very proud of it, it's a must see. But apart from the interest in UFOs, and special effects my film The sci fi boys I have made three films that all have the title The Life After Death Project, life after death project one the life after death project two personal encounters the life after death project three sales encounters. And again, if you go to my website, I'll say it again. Paul, David's iPhone artists.com. And you go to the menu and then click on film streaming, you find access to all of my films, including these three about life after death. This became of absolute supreme importance to me in 2009, this whole question about can we prove that there's life after death and it Is spirit communication, in some cases real between someone who's deceased and a loved one who's still alive. And strange, strange things began happening in my life. After my great mentor in film passed away Forrest J Ackerman. He was an atheist. He didn't believe in life after death. He was also a futurist though he invented the term sci fi. He was very, very interested in science fiction and how it projects the future that we might have. And he said to me, you know, Paul, he's about 92. At this point, he said, and I don't think there's any life after death. I think it's like, you know, an old computer, you know, when that motherboard goes, you know, throw it away. That's the end of it. He said, you know, but just in case, it turns out that I'm wrong. He says, If I wake up after I die to some great science fiction convention in the sky, he said, you know, maybe I'll drop you a line. I'll try. If I could, I'd drop you a line. I said, I, I tried, he said, Don't count on it. For God's god's sake, though, he wouldn't say that he didn't believe in God either. At that point he didn't. I think he's changed his mind now that he's passed away. But what happened was, so he was an editor and editor. So what does it mean to drop some of the line? In my case, it happened with a piece of text. With a document, I printed out a computer. I went out. The ink had been drying for a couple hours, I knew the ink was dry. I was alone in the house. When I came back. I picked up the document, it was normal and ordinary. I was out of the room for five minutes. And when I came back, the document had been strategically targeted, physically changed, for words had now been blacked out by some kind of ink or something that was still moist. Hadn't there was no moisture when I left the room. And it was so neatly done. It was clear those four words had been chosen. I was alone in the house. What do you get from that I get a ghost. I was scared. I was scared really? At first because I wasn't thinking, you know about 40. Forrest J Ackerman. We call them for a and that this could be the line he said he was going to drop me. Well, if you see the movie, The Life After Death Project one, you'll see what happened in my life because of that blackout of those four words, went to the head of the chemistry department in Purdue University, Jay Siegel, who's now deceased. And then the document went to the College of New Jersey to a chemist there. I had scientists working on this for years who came away not only did weird things related to for a start happening in their lives, just for investigating this, but they're on record as saying science can't explain this. And you'll see it in the life after death project. One also involves fabulous scientists Dr. Gary Schwartz, University of Arizona Tucson, written many books. He has studied mediums for about 15 years, separating the wannabes from the ones that really do have a gift. And we filmed a couple of those who have a gift in life after death project one and you will see it's absolutely extraordinary what they're bringing across from Forrest J. Ackerman, who died at the age of 92. I was his friend for most of my life, I met him when I was 13 years old, I won a contest in his magazine, I was a teenage filmmaker. And when I got to Hollywood, studying at the American Film Institute Center for Advanced film studies, I spent a lot of time with FAR US House was a great museum. So I'm telling your listeners, you can see that for free. It's a must if you want to see an extraordinary array of evidence that personality, life survives the end of the body. Wherever it is, whatever form it takes, can reach out and still communicate with us. It's real. Most of my life, I never would have believed in it, you know, but it happened to me. Then there's the life after death project to personal encounters, in which I have talked to around 20 different people from all walks of life. You know, librarians, archaeologists, nurses, doctors, people who can confer And that they've had contact from deceased friends and loved ones it's real. By the time you've seen number two, this incredible wealth of evidence and then number three is a life after death project three seance encounters, the others are on Amazon. This one is on Tubi. And Samsung counters. We were actually given permission to film seance and do research paranormal research at the home of the late Forrest J Ackerman, the home that he had owned, we were there with a team of scientists for four days and three nights. And that was all filmed. Live. That's what you'll see in number three. So I encourage your encourage your listeners, your those who are watching. To explore that, I want to mention just one or two others of the projects, I have a project that's done completely in fun.
It's maybe sort of a cross between Monty Python and weird owl. But it's called Professor hack hard drive hacks the universe that's on Tubi you go to my website, you can have a link to it on the Tubi channel. And this is me having fun where i My father was a professor at Georgetown University. And I created the character of a funny professor I called Professor hack harddrive who speaks in rhyme, about all kinds of controversial things about the crazy modern world that we live in today, you know, so that subjects tattoos is one of the subjects WikiLeaks, airport security, marriage and divorce, it's, it's well worth seeing you have time ends since it's 19 separate skits, each one about four or five minutes, particularly the one on tattoos, and one on the Big Bang. Those are early in the movie. It's called Professor hack harddrive hacks the universe,
Alex Ferrari 57:04
I appreciate that I appreciate that we will definitely I'll put a link to all of this stuff in the show notes to make sure people can go check out your the work. Now I'm going to ask you a few questions asked all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Paul Davids 57:19
Well, I think I've lived a fulfilled life, because I felt driven to create projects that would open people's minds to things that they may have just outright rejected or never considered. But things that I think have merit and are probably real. Some of these things are scuffed as conspiracy theories, whatever that means. I mean, the point is, when you look at the topics that I've chosen, I've chosen topics that broaden the mind as to what reality really might be, as opposed to just what conventional thinking it makes us think the other aspect is not just this opening of the minds through the topics. But painting. I'm a painter I have been since I've a child. One of my films is about Vincent van Gogh called Starry Night. And I've painted now hundreds of paintings. I just I know I've always had a gift for it. But it's you talk about what's a fulfilled life. It's been very fulfilling to me to leave these artworks of beauty, which will be, you know, one of my legacies. So there's been that there has been books, I've just lived a fulfilled life in every way and family too, because I've been married 51 years to the same
Alex Ferrari 58:56
There you are. How do you define God?
Paul Davids 59:00
Well, I don't think we should try to define God. I think God is beyond all definition. But they the the aspect of God would I think that the word implies is the prime mover, the prime creative force by which all of this that we experience exists. And some people don't believe there is a prime moving force behind all of it. I look at the intricacy, the structure, the design of everything around us how it all interconnects and I say to think that there isn't a fast intelligence behind all of this is nonsense.
Alex Ferrari 59:49
And I couldn't agree with you more. And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Paul Davids 59:57
I don't think any of us knows the answer to that. But shouldn't the ultimate purpose, I think, I think there are all different kinds of ways that you can live your life, there are certain ways that are more constructive to helping the human family. And there are ways that are really, really destructive. And there are a lot of people out there that are driven by terrible, destructive, even murderous impulses and lack of honesty and willingness to steal, and losing all self control and devoting himself entirely to drugs or whatever it may be. They've lost their way. So when we're saying there's life of a purpose, if it has a purpose, it's not any of that, you know, it's it's to it's to try to live one life in a way that we can fully appreciate the extraordinary mystery of creation. That's what it is for me.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:01
And last question, do you think that any of it anytime in the future, will people accept this idea of Jesus in India? Will the mainstream eventually checking in 100 years 200 500 from now?
Paul Davids 1:01:15
Well, you know, I hate to be a pessimist. But the fact is, since we can't prove Jesus in India, without documents that are a couple 1000 years old, in our hands to be examined, I mean, we're having enough trouble proving the Shroud of Turin write a lot of things about the Shroud of Turin that would make you think this must be the burial shroud of Jesus, and then they come up with a carbon dating that contradicts it. Well, there are people that are challenging the whole nature of the way that carbon dating was done and still insist, there's no agreement. I don't think they'll ever be agreement about whether Jesus was India, just as like there won't be agreement throughout all of mankind, whether Jesus was the Messiah, but some people will accept it. And it's wonderful to contemplate, but maybe it's more important to contemplate Jesus's words in the message of his life that we know about already. And that this about the India origins of some of Christianity, it's a sidebar, you know, it's a historical curiosity. But what Christianity is trying to say is, look at Jesus's life as we know it. Look at what he taught, don't go away from what he taught, it's a value to everyone, regardless of what your native religion is. I think that's important. You know, because I was not raised a Christian and but there you go.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:49
Paul it's been a pleasure, sir, talking to you. Thank you so much for not only having this conversation, but the work you've done to enlighten the world. So I appreciate you my friend. Thank you again.
Paul Davids 1:02:59
Thank you for having me.
Links and Resources
- Paul J. Davids – Official Site
- Jesus in India – The Movie
- Life After Death Project
- Art by Paul Davids
- Before We Say Goodbye
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