Hawaiian Shaman: The 7 Life Principles with Jonathan Hammond

Jonathan Hammond is a Maui-based teacher, energy healer, shamanic practitioner, and spiritual

counselor. Before beginning his work in holistic health and spirituality, he had a career as an award-winning actor, appearing on Broadway and on television.

A graduate of Harvard University and the University of Michigan, Jonathan is a

certified Master Teacher in Shamanic Reiki, Usui, and Karuna Reiki, and the advanced graduate studies advisor for Shamanic Reiki Worldwide. He teaches classes in Shamanism, energy healing, spirituality, and Huna at the Omega Institute for Holistic Studies and around the world.

Jonathan has training and certifications in Cherokee Bodywork, Huna, and Ho‘oponopono, and is an ordained Alakai (leader or guide) through Aloha International. He has completed the core curriculum studies at the Foundation for Shamanic Studies, and has been initiated through the Minoan Fellowship in Wicca.

In addition to his background in energy medicine, Jonathan completed four years of training at One Spirit Learning Alliance (OSLA) in New York City, and was ordained as an interfaith minister in 2008. He is currently a faculty member at OSLA, where he teaches Shamanism and interspiritual counseling, and he is the founding leader of OSLA’s monthly shamanic circle. Jonathan has also studied Shamanism, energy healing, and meditation privately, with prominent teachers in North and South America, and has worked alongside shamans in Mexico, Brazil, Bali, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Hawaii.

Jonathan now spends his life deeply committed to empowering and healing people by bringing indigenous Earth wisdom to the modern world, and leads international spiritual retreats through his company, The Living Project.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 080

Jonathan Hammond 0:00
Because there is an aspect of you got to stay in your lane sometimes you know because not everything is your work to do and not every fight is your fight to have.

Alex Ferrari 0:19
I've been able to partner with Mindvalley to present you guys free. masterclass is between 60 and 90 minutes, hovering Mind Body Soul Relationships and Conscious Entrepreneurship, taught by spiritual masters, yogi's spiritual thought leaders and best selling authors. Just head over to nextlevelsoul.com/free.

Today on the show, we have Hawaiian Shaman, Jonathan Hammond and Jonathan and I speak about shamanism in Hawaii, the seven principles of life based on his teachings and so much more. So let's dive in. I'd like to welcome to the show, Jonathan Hammond. How you doing, Jonathan?

Jonathan Hammond 1:08
I am amazing. Aloha!

Alex Ferrari 1:10
Aloha, sir. Aloha, thank you so much for coming on the show my friend I we were just talking about my my adventures in Maui and the Big Island and like, like we're saying someone's gotta live there. You know, it's thank you for making the sacrifice. We really do appreciate it.

Jonathan Hammond 1:26
It's tedious. But someone does have to do it. Yeah. And actually, it's cloudy. today. It's uncharacteristically cloudy last few days and I and whenever it's cloudy, that's my day to do errands, because I always have whenever it's nice out, which is all the time I always have FOMO you know about like, I'm not supposed to be doing errands. I'm supposed to be at the beach. So

Alex Ferrari 1:46
I had to be at Costco right now I need to go I need to go to the beach, or hang out or, you know, buy a pineapple. Well, this I wanted to have you on the show. Because, you know, I've never had a shaman or a shaman practitioner on the show before. And I'd love to hear your point of view, your spiritual point of view and what you'd be teaching and things. So first question is what is a shaman? We've heard that term thrown around in the zeitgeist for for a long time. So what is the definition of a shaman in your opinion?

Jonathan Hammond 2:17
Well, shamans, a healer, healer of relationships, the relationship we have between ourselves and others, the relationship we have with our mind and our body, the relationships that others and others have with each other, and ultimately the relationship that everyone has with the planet. And so there was a there's a very nature of centric viewpoint in in as a shamanic practitioner. So we're looking at nature as a template, because nature is just a spontaneous and unapologetic unapologetic expression of itself. And so we look at nature as as a way as a template to teach us how to be. So a lot of times when people want to be shown because they need healing. It's because they've been they pulled away from their nature, their organic nature, and in some way and they've assimilated to the culture, or they've assimilated to their family, or, or they were simply taught or shown things about themselves as children that aren't actually them. And so So, a shamanic practitioner is about go back to who you actually were before you were socialized who your natural self, your organic self. And so and we use nature as a as a model for that.

Alex Ferrari 3:32
So do we healer. So we spend most of our lives trying to forget the things that were pounded into us by family society, the world at large, and trying to find that trying to get back to our our true nature, our true selves. And that's why I've never met a yogi who's upset. They're generally very, they're very, I found I've connected back to who I truly am. So I have to ask you the question. The next question is, how did you go from actor to shaman practitioner because as well I've I'm in the film business, as you know, so many people were like, so you do a spiritual podcast, I'm like, yes, because even artists and filmmakers and actors were human as well. We'd like to go through

Jonathan Hammond 4:25
But it's not that much of a leap if you think about if you think about acting, you learn the lines you learn the blocking you hope or inspiration to come through. You know, and and it's the same skill set. It's just about channeling it's just that I'm I'm channeling in a different way. And for me the I was never a fame driven actor. It was always about the artistry and about the telling of stories. And about the the the inspiration that comes from telling good stories and helping people illuminate things about their life through art. I just didn't get to do that as much as I would like to, you know, because to business and I always had, I always had a very rich spiritual life, but it was never, it was just something that I thought was just for me. And and then it got to a point as we're going back 15 years now, but it got to a point where I would be in a be in a production or something. And I would think to myself, I can't wait for this to be over. And I'd say to my actor friends, do you feel that way? There's no, nope, don't feel that way. You know. And so that was a real, that was a real moment. And then I actually had a moment on Haleakala volcano. When I, when I was traveling here to come here many times that was very much like a spiritual visitation. And I wrote about in my book, and I was basically told it's time to, it's time to stop doing that and become a full time. A spiritual teacher was very much it was very much something that that that happened on on Maui. It was just something that happened that I can't I mean, I describe it in the book, it was just this force that sort of came over me and

Alex Ferrari 6:06
Did you hear a voice did you did you what was it?

Jonathan Hammond 6:09
I mean, it was it was this sense of I was sitting on the volcano, and I and I, there was white out of clouds, you know, and I could couldn't see my hand in front my face. And there was this force that came that where I had to lie down and you're lying. I'm like, sharp lava rock. But for some reason, when I lie down, it was like, I was in the most comfortable reclining chair in the world, which was weird. And then there was this weird kind of life review that started happening. And there was just this sense of, of that, I knew that it knew that it was happening, that I was having a conversation, or some sort of, I couldn't describe it in any other way than that. And one of the messages was, it's time, it's time for you to change your life. So that that happened up there, you know, and, and it was scary, because I, you know, I at that point in my life, I still hadn't paid my student loans back from drama school, you know, you know, it was like, a big a big change in my life. No, but but one that one that I made. So

Alex Ferrari 7:12
It's so interesting, because I've been to that volcano. And I, it's one of the most magical meme, I'll take one of those memories. There's something that happened at that volcano, to me and my wife, we were there on our honeymoon. And I'm sure this happens all the time, because you live there. But when you when you drive up a certain time of day, you actually drive up into clouds. I've never had that experience before. So you are literally in a cloud, you can't see very far and you put your hand out. And it's not raining, but it is raining. So it's kind of like you're like this weird middle. It was such a magical thing. And then we like get past the so now we're above the class and I were looking down to the clouds when you're at the top of the of the volcano. And it was such a magical I didn't have a spiritual thing like you. But it was just a magical thing that I just never forgot. I was like, wow, that was just amazing.

Jonathan Hammond 8:09
Yeah, Hawaii has 21 If there are 23 different climate zones in the world, and why has 21 of them? Really. So yeah. And I remember I remember one time going up there and I experienced snow, rain, sleet, a rainbow and sunshine while walking through the parking lot.

Alex Ferrari 8:30
That makes sense. That makes absolute sense.

Jonathan Hammond 8:33
It's so it's very, there's just a real Vortex here. It's just the nature is really just so alive. The land is is so alive. And uh, you know, when when I moved here I had to it was really it was really I had to, it felt like like a pilgrimage like I had. It was it was where my home was supposed to be.

Alex Ferrari 8:51
Is it is it me because you came from New York, you know, and I recently lived in LA. So when I was going from LA to Maui, I never forgot the feeling that I felt walking off the plane. It feels like you walk into a wall of relaxation. It is the weirdest the energy, everything slows down. The people around you just the energy there. And then you go back and you get off the plane in LA and you're just like, well, there's the energy again, or you get out in New York, you'd like literally feel the kinetic thing about those big cities. Is that something that you I mean, you live there now so that must be you're used to this.

Jonathan Hammond 9:28
And there's actually there's there's some kind of spiritual anthropology about this land and about Hawaii, which is that that, that at one point, they talked about the continent of Mu and Mu and which was this huge landmass where Hawaii sits in the middle of the South Pacific. And the and the folklore is really around that these off planet beings, angels or some sort of spiritual beings in some way descended to this part of the world because they were at attracted to the water because the water holds memory. And they in some way infected the water with the god molecule or with aloha, you know, and because we're all we're all made of water and and relying on water was like, at a time when the earth was evolving toward love these off planet beings came here. That's one of the that's one of the stories. The other the other theory is that that, that Hawaii is is a place where all the different esoteric systems from around the world converged. And so we don't really know whether or not it's the source or the recipient, but it's just a very, very, very charged, charged land in charge place. And, and, and that's why there is the sense here of you know, everyone's shouting love with each other, you know, instead of Hello, we're literally saying love to each other. And there's something about about the land that and the people that live here, that is very much their, their real people to their, you know, they're real people do with problems and lives and, and husbands and wives and mortgages and all that, you know, but but there is something about about the land here that is that, that brings about that that feeling of of, of inner light or in open your heart, there's just something to it.

Alex Ferrari 11:17
Yeah, it's pretty magical it is, it's really a pretty magical place. And I look forward to seeing the other islands I've only been to two of the islands I want to go to, to the bunch of the other ones as well. Now, how do how do indigenous healers see the world because you obviously work with indigenous, you've worked with indigenous shamans and things, how do they see the world?

Jonathan Hammond 11:39
Well, they see the world as, as the world is a reflection of their thoughts. So the world one of the principles in the Hoonah philosophy in the Hawaiian shamanic esoteric philosophy, the first principle is the comes from a Hawaiian word called E. K. And the translation is, the world is what you think it is. So not just that your experience of the world or your experience of life, your experience of reality is based on your thoughts. But that reality itself, changes and shifts based on your thoughts. So if you think of the awareness as a blank canvas, on to which you are projecting your inner world, and that that blank canvas shifts and changes and creates itself based on what's being projected upon it. So from a shamanic perspective, everything is alive, conscious and wants to connect with you. So that's what and because because I have that Outlook, you know, and that really is a belief. So for instance, if you if you have a question about your life, and you think I'm going to take a walk in the forest to find the answer to that question, and that's your intention, the forest to start talking to you, if you don't have that belief, it just be a nice walk in the forest. So from a shamanic perspective, we're looking at everything as sentient, everything is a lot, everything has a consciousness, even even rocks, that everything everything in some way. Has an aliveness to it. Everything has a purpose. You know, and because because we also look from a shamanic perspective, at the unity at the all that there's the university, the unit, there's only the one and we are all apertures, single apertures connected to the all but still a part of the wall. Another way to think of it is, we are all individual waves on the ocean, but can't separate ourselves from the ocean. So we look at so we look at that our life and our existence as as part of that interdependence as part of the all. And when you start doing that, and you realize that everything is there to connect with you, there's a different kind of belongingness that, that, that comes about, about that, that I am here for a purpose. And that because I'm connected to everything included, that means that my unrealized potential is literally sitting right next to me, because there's only one thing you know. And so it's a very unitive unity of consciousness. The third idea about shamanism is really about the idea that where we place our focus and attention invites in energy to bring to us to create the nearest available equivalent of what we're putting our focus and attention on. So it's really about the power of the mind. And it's really about the idea that we are truly co creating our reality through what we're thinking. We all know this, but we all know this on some level. But but from a shamanic practitioner, we really we live by that we live by that.

Alex Ferrari 14:44
I mean, it seems to be working out okay. Because you're living in Maori. So so so you're doing something right, sir, you're doing something right. You know, you're, you're definitely looking at things a little differently. But that's very it's very true because you I mean, everything round us we create. I know that's so difficult for people to some people who are in different places in their lives to understand. But like me sitting here talking to you was created by me, I built this up, I built up the show, I built up the set that's around us, literally, I had it in my mind at first, and then I'm like, then I'm going to create this, I'm going to create a company, I'm going to create a brand. And this is my intention with what I'm trying to do. And it was all created by me. And then and funny thing is, is when you start going down certain roads with your creations, certain doors open up, that might have been close to you before. So it's really interesting to see in. I mean, I think the law, the concept of the law of attraction was was is a very basic law, in the spiritual spaces. It's been kind of abused over the last 1015 years, you know, ever since this secret came out, it was the best and worst thing for it, because now it becomes almost a joke. Because you're like, Oh, you think of the law of attraction, this and that. So in the way we create our own, our own experience is somewhat connected to the law of attraction, correct.

Jonathan Hammond 16:12
It is in the law of attraction, I know what you're talking about, it does invite in a kind of spiritual materialism, you know, which is about you know, it's I want a bike, I want a bike. I want stuff, you know, another way to think of it is that a shaman would see waking reality as a kind of dream as a dream. And if you think about if you think about sleeping dreams, if you were to go have your sleeping dream interpreted, what would be interpreted would be that everything that appears in the sleeping dream is reflection of something about you. And so the shaman looks at the waking dream, and everything that appears to us in the waking dream as a reflection of something about us. So it's really looking at this idea that that, that what is inside of us presents itself to us through through the outside world, because that's the that's the frequency that we're connected to. Even the idea of the old brain science would say that, you know, the meat in our head is the is the originator of consciousness. But the new brain science really talks about that the meat in our head is a receptor of consciousness, and that that's actually more like an antenna. And so that every reality is there for the taking, because there's only the unity and what we are connected to tune this into our particular channel. And then when we're tuned into that channel, the the people places and things of that channel present themselves in our waking reality.

Alex Ferrari 17:39
It's interesting, because there was, there's a story when I was a kid, were a cousin of mine, he would go to clubs, and back when we used to club and we clubs, and he's like, every time I go in a club, I get into a fight. And he goes, I don't know what's going on. Like every time I have to get into a fight like and I'm not like looking for it, but it always finds me. And I told them, I'm like, Man, I go clubbing all the time, I've never been in a fight, right? So what is a goes, maybe I'm just throwing this out there, it could be you. Because if if you keep going to 50 clubs and 50 clubs, you get into 50 fights, it's not the clubs. Really, it's it seems to be the you're the X factor in this equation. But it's it's an example of who you are. And what you do, you attract. And it's, it's very true.

Jonathan Hammond 18:25
And well, and we all have an unconscious mind. And what that means is that we have material inside of us that unless it's it's excavated, and given given awareness of lies, it's actually running the show, you know, and so like your friend, I would say that he's got a fight inside of him that there's anger in there, you know, and it's unclaimed anger, you know, and because it's unclaimed anger, it shows up in these ways. So so if the world is what you think it is, the world is what you think it is both consciously and unconsciously. That's why the the, the material in our unconscious that we're not aware of, part of the healing work is bringing that to the fore. You know, we we don't like to acknowledge that we all have darkness, but we all have darkness. And once it sees the light of awareness, that darkness becomes something else you can work with it, you know, and so and with without the light of awareness, it just shows up in these ways where I keep finding myself in certain negative patterns over and over again. That's because there's something in there that just needs awareness. It's not that stuff isn't bad. It just it just it just needs the acknowledgement, the acknowledgement that it's there so that we can work with it.

Alex Ferrari 19:39
That makes that makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. You were talking about being connected to everything and I think we've always feel like we're disconnected when we're here in this place. In this reality. We are we are inherently told that we're disconnected from everything else. We are not connected to you and I aren't connected I'm not connected to the soil, I'm not connected to the planet, I'm not connected to anybody, you know, you feel so disconnected where I've had many near death experiencers on the show, who talk about when they're on the other side. All they feel this connection, they feel connections to everything, and everyone and you can experience everything, and everyone instantly, and it's like this thing. So why do we find it so difficult to connect, and understand that that we are all connected, if I hurt you, you're truly just hurting yourself and so on?

Jonathan Hammond 20:33
Well, separation separation really is an illusion, but it's an illusion that's gotten a lot of legitimacy. It's what's wrong. It's what's wrong with a with a planet, it's what's wrong is the sense of, I mean, I'll use nature as an example. So does this is actually true dolphin excrement, actually provides a kind of fertilizer that produces an kind of green algae that grows in these huge patches, it's so big, these green algae patches over the over the sea, that you can see them from space, they're huge. And these algae patches provide 50% of the world's oxygen, which means that every other breath you take is born of dolphin poop. That's how interconnected we are. And that's how and that's why the idea, the idea that we're not looking at things ecologically. And you know, but But what's interesting about about the younger, the younger generation is that they came in they incarnated, not all of them, but many of them with an ecological mindedness. Yep. And I believe, I believe it's connected to this, you know, it's connected to the fact that that, that this is a symbol of our interconnection, you know, and on some level, on some level, because they all have always had that in their hand, a sense of that interconnection is, is more organic for them. And I think that's, that may be one of the reasons why, why so many of them are ecologically minded, because they certainly weren't taught it. You know, they certainly weren't taught it. So. So yeah, this is, it's a really important thing to look at that, that, when I criticize, what I'm criticizing, is just what I'm running through my own system, you know, when we hurt people, hurt people, all of that stuff, you know, to really, really look at the fact that we really are, it is a global village, we are all in this together, you know, and it can become overwhelming, because there is an aspect of you got to stay in your lane sometimes, you know, because not everything is your work to do. And not every fight is your fight to have. But, but a sense that we are that we are all just an individual expression of the all.

Alex Ferrari 22:49
It's interesting that you use the internet, I mean, you and I are both have similar vintage. So we we understood the days when there was three channels, those kinds of days, where now, you're right, like my kids, they they just grew into this world, they grew into a world where there was an internet, where everything's connected, you can talk to you can see everything, all the time, every bit of human information is available, essentially at your fingertips at one way, shape, or form. Where you and I did not have that we were not raised with that at all that interconnectedness was not there. So you know, there's so much stuff going on in the world right now. There's so much stuff. And I asked this a lot of my guests and like we've got the environment is fighting back on us. Economic worries around the world. I predicting I'm not the only one that there'll be some sort of economic strife, big crash, where do you know the way our system works? So we're due for one of those anytime now. We've got, we're on the brink of world war three. As well, we've got a pandemic, that it seems like, unlike other times in human history, it's affecting the entire planet at the same time. So the political strife that's happening is not just happening in America, it's happening in every country. That same kind of tribalism is starting to pull apart other countries as well. And you see it around the world. And people are starting to get there's like an uprising, if you will, like of chaos. There's so much going on in the world. What do you think is happening? I'd love to hear your point of view or the shamanistic point of view of this time period in human history because it feels like there's something definitely happening. There's something going on there's a shift of some sort.

Jonathan Hammond 24:43
Yeah, this this has been prophesied. This is this this time on the planet. You've heard of the Mayan calendar. You've heard the Quechua people, the Cherokee people talk about the Rainbow Coalition. The Quechua people talk about the the eagle and the Condor meaning the masculine feminine flying together in the same sky that and that this would be that this would be a time of of great tumult in order to, in order to evolve further, we cannot continue our binary thinking good, bad black, white Trump Biden, Vax, on facts, you know, all of that, that, that polarization is, is the foundation of what we're talking about with the separation. And even the idea of all the non binary people, you know, sexually or otherwise, the people who are don't identify with the polarized, you know, they say, I'm not that and I'm not that, can I be something else. And they are, they are, they are incarnating at this time, as well, because we are moving toward something that is more unified. And I think the chaos is just when old systems die. There's when healing is happening. There's always resistance even with even individually with my own clients, a healing and resistance are two sides of the same coin, if you have one, the resistance will come up. And so there is a lot of resistance happening right now. Because we are we are moving into a different a different way of being in a different age. Even even Carl Jung wrote a book called ion in Carl Jung, like the 20th century best 20th century German from where I said, but he wrote a book called the ion and in 1951, and he said in December of 2020, he wrote this in 1951, would be the end of the Piscean age, which was an age that he characterized as the 2000 years starting with the birth of Christ, where we would be in a battle between good and evil, a battle we would lose, and that in December 2020, we would begin the Aquarian Age, which would be, which would be an age for the next 2000 years of individuation, meaning that rather than the polarizing light and dark, we would integrate that and that everyone would individually integrate that and we globally. And so, sociologically would integrate our darkness in such a way, that's why, you know, all of this stuff that has been going on, but it's still being looked at the, you know, the, the, the sexual exploitation and the racism and the, and the, and the greed and all of that, that's all coming to the fore right now. Because that's all the stuff that we would like to pretend wasn't there, but it's coming up to be healed. You know, and, and we're right on time, you know, so even though it is very difficult, from where I sit, it is about that we're all evolving, and that it needed to happen. You know, and I hope that I hope that, that and we can only each individually do our part, we can, you know, but a lot of people aren't doing their part. So you know, if you're, if you're, if you're oriented to do your part, do it, you know, but, but that's, that's where that's where we're going. And so I despite the fact that it's very difficult, I do really have a really positive outlook, you know, and I hope that we wake up, you know, I mean, I think at a certain point that the Earth may shake us off, like too many fleas that make you know that, you know, that may happen if we don't wake up, but I think that the invitation. And what do I mean by waking up? It's nothing, highfalutin connection, love, mutual respect, being of service. And then you know, over nature, all of that stuff. It's very, it's really simple. What's being asked of us right now. But we all have to do our part.

Alex Ferrari 28:24
It was It seems to, it seems to be that there are different ages that we go through. It's really interesting. I had another guest on a little while ago, talking about, are you familiar with the yugas? You illegals, right. So you understand the universe? And the different titles of existence and how like how the pyramids were built? Makes no sense. We couldn't build them today, if we tried. Like, literally, it's impossible. So was there a time that we were actually more evolved than we are now we actually had to devolve. And now we're going, we've passed like the lowest point. And now we're on our way back to the evolution going back up to where we, you know, all the knowledge that was lost in Alexandria, all the lot of the knowledge that was lost with the Mayans, and all this is supposed to happen, we're not supposed to have that kind of information. It's interesting, because if you start thinking about things in that, that kind of framework, it starts to make more sense as far as the time the cycles of, of what we're supposed to be. Is that fair?

Jonathan Hammond 29:31
Yeah. And, you know, the, that was one of the indigenous cultures that I didn't mention, when I was talking about it being prophesied. But yeah, I mean, this this has been characterized as the Kali Yuga. And Kali is really, you know, the goddess of destruction, but she's also the the goddess of birth. You know, it's it's super interesting, too, that the Coronavirus is supposedly born at bats, and bats from a shamanic perspective represent death and rebirth, you know, and You can't have one without the other. And so there is this, you know, there is this reset going on. And even the idea of, you know, those two years, if you were doing it right, if you were, if you were able to do it, right, those two years, were about go home, look at yourself, right? Though, you go look at your relationships, go look at your job, go and just, you know, go look at how you're wasting your time, go look at you know, and it really served that for a lot of people, all of my clients, you know, the pervasive narrative on CNN was just how terrible everything was. But all my clients were just, and not to make it about me, I just think that this is the narrative that isn't talked about, were really growing, and learning and sales and recalibrating what they considered important and all of that, you know, and, and I think that's going on to you know, so I think, you know, there's this big evolution going into this big devolution going on right now, you know, and so and that's where everything's bumping up against each other.

Alex Ferrari 30:59
Right! And in order for things to grow, there has to be there has to be some, the old has to go for the new to grow. And, you know, I forgot who said it, but chaos is the fertile ground for change. And that's where we're kind of I mean, if we're not in Kea, and I don't think we are, we haven't hit bottom yet, I think we still got a lot more to go in the sense of the shifting and things. Things there. Look, you know, again, you and I are of similar age, things that are happening today, I would have never even thought of we would have looked at as insane. If we were mentioned this in the 80s or 90s, or even in the early 2000s. If you say some of the things that the things that people are doing things that people are saying, the way countries are behaving, the way the world is the environmental stuff, the pandemic, we would have been looked at as insane. So things that had been rock solid, for lifetimes, all of a sudden, just shift like completely shift. I mean, just to use an example from our, our industry of the film industry. For what 80 100 years, movie theaters. Yeah. Movie theaters. Yeah, it was a part of our existence, now. They're fighting to stay alive. They're in a place that. So for someone like you and me to think that like, oh, that movie theater is gonna go away. It's insane, is insane.

Jonathan Hammond 32:35
Yeah, you know, I can only say this is the nature, the nature of healing. And particularly, if we're really going to go with the idea that everything that happens to us is a reflection of something in us. What that really means is that the stuff that we don't like, is the stuff that happens to us that we don't like, is supposed to be from a from a healing perspective, a light bulb, you know, it's a light bulb. Why is this happening? What what, what about me? Am I not seeing what about my consciousness? And am I not aware of this curating this experience, it's always a light bulb, it's always been through darkness is a tool. And it's a tool, and it's leading us somewhere, if we didn't, you know, and divinity, divinity, Source Energy is in the darkness, if we didn't have evil, we wouldn't have anything to wake up from. So we can assume that even in the even in the evil, the divinities hand is there, you know, and so the idea that these these changes are happening, that there is this tumult is about, like, the light bulb, that it's time to really look at things that we haven't looked at, and, and, and time to change things that that aren't working in the same way. You know, and as much as I see that, like something like movie theaters would be something that, that, you know, we've been established for any blockbuster, Blockbuster. You know, there's, there's other dynamics that are that are that going on, that are going on, that make that not something that people want to do in the same way, you know, and I don't think I don't think it's the people are, are not interested in being entertained. You know, I just think that there's there's, that people are changing, and people are reprioritizing. You know, I mean, when I, you know, I had an office in New York, you know, and what COVID did was indicate to me that I don't need to have an office in New York, you know, and I start my day at 6am, and I get in the shower at 550. And I'm ready to go and, you know, and so, there has been these real, like, lifestyle changes that are in alignment with with the technological advancement and, and I think that that's, that's by design, you know, because it's giving us more time, it's making us work not as hard. There's a lot there, that's really, really good.

Alex Ferrari 34:53
How can we, you know, look at bad things happen to everybody. I want one or another, okay, and the term Add as relative because one person is bad thing is another person's good thing. It all depends on perspective. You know, an incident is an incident period. But how can we better look at those as opportunities to grow, as opposed to get caught up in what it is. And I know that's a very difficult conversation to have. Because if some someone you love dies, it's hard to see if there was a tragic incident or it's hard to see things. But you know, just me walking the earth as long as I have. There's things that happened in my past that at the moment, the world was ending. Yeah, but a few years later, like, Thank God, that didn't happen now. So how can we lens, shorten that hindsight window? If you will?

Jonathan Hammond 35:48
Yeah. It's, it's really about choosing to see it. And I know what you mean, it's a difficult conversation, because it can look like blame the victim, it can look like, you know, that on some level, okay, so if everything that happens to you is created by your thoughts, then, why did I receive or why was I hurt this way, or why, you know, and all of that, and sometimes we need to pull the lens back far enough to see an evolutionary perspective. You know, I mean, even the idea of, of a woman who was not was only taught innocence, as an ideal, who is only taught, you know, if you're a good girl, and you cook, and you make yourself look pretty, like you're good to go, you'll get yours. And that girl doesn't get hers, you know, she has to, she has to, you know, she has to learn things about herself, and about what the world is in order to exist in the world safely. And so something may come up, and I'm just using a young woman as an example, something they can't come up, that makes her but have to deal with the reality of what life is, you know, and, and it could be very dark, you know, and, but these things do, do get have an evolutionary purpose, even even death, the thing that we're also afraid of what I've experienced with with death with people is that when someone dies, I have seen the reverberation will effect of healing happen around the person that dies, that on some level, someone learns something, someone else gets something else somewhat like, there's always there's always gifts with the death, even some of that thing that we're all so afraid of, that we think is so bad, you know, but what I have seen is that it is that there is an evolutionary benefit for the people who are left behind from the person who dies, you know, and who knows what's happening, you know, to the person, but who actually passes and where they're going next, but they're definitely going somewhere next, you know, and I don't necessarily mean, floating on a heavenly cloud of ice cream, you know, I mean, I think there might be going to, you know, to learn more lessons, you know, you know, the, the, if you think of the universe is just wanting to experience itself, it's wanting to learn about itself, you know, and so it's not about becoming enlightened, it's about learning stuff by doing stuff. And if you're learning stuff by doing stuff, that's what the universe is doing. You know, and it's when we're stuck in our routines and our habits and our habitual way of thinking, and I don't like that person I don't like and I want to, and I still disagree with that person, I want to kill them. You know, we stopped that process of learning, you know, we start that process of, of growing, we're infinite beings, you know, so, so it really is, it's the choice, it's the choice to look at what's going on. Why is this happening? Why is this happening for me? You know, you know, if you break your arm, you go to the doctor, you get it fixed. You break your arm, you go to the shaman and say, Why did I break my arm?

Alex Ferrari 38:40
What was what is this trying to tell me?

Jonathan Hammond 38:43
Meaning that meaning that what's underneath it? What what what inside? You curated the circumstances to break your arm? You know, what are you not looking at? What what does that mean? What's the symbol of that? What is that? What is that speaking to? You know?

Alex Ferrari 38:59
Let me ask you, because we talked a little bit about this earlier dreams. What is the shamans point of view on on dreams because dreams are so powerful. You know, I believe that every dream has some something tell us in one way, shape or form as we grow older and and, you know, I've been trying to figure out and interpret dreams and so on. What is the shaman shamanistic point of view on dreams for people?

Jonathan Hammond 39:24
Well, the shamanic outlook is a symbolic Outlook, you know, so we're, we're, we're really big on on on symbol, you know, and, and the idea that if you if you change, even even something as simple as you put a ring on a finger on a certain day with people watching and that symbolizes a whole new way of being in the world with someone as husband and wife, just through that symbol, you know, and so and so we're so in shamanism, you know, we do something called the shamanic journey, which is where we are which is sort of like a shamanic meditation. But it's where we go to either different places in the psyche, different realities, there's a lot of different ways to think about it. And in that it and we create a conscious dream in order to meet with, with, with spiritual beings in order to receive healing in order to receive wisdom, and a lot of that comes through the language of symbol. You know, and so if someone's doing a shamanic journey, and they're seeing, they're seeing an eagle, you know, there's a, there's a whole lexicon of, of ideas about about what that means that we're all connected to, you know, or if they are seeing if they are seeing, they're doing a shamanic journey about a problem, and they're seeing a big mountain, that seems very difficult to climb, you know. So then in the dream, they fit in this shamanic journey, they figure out how to climb that mountain, and the symbol of the mountain represents their hardship. And we're beginning to work on the hardship energetically and symbolically. So that's a way to think of think of how we think about dreams.

Alex Ferrari 41:06
Now, there are the seven Hoonah principles. Yeah. Can you tell us what those principles are?

Jonathan Hammond 41:12
Yeah, I told you, the first three the world is what you think it is. So the world we are creating reality with our thoughts. Second one is about limitlessness. Meaning that there is no separation, there's only there's only the one, we're connected to everything. The third is about inviting in or working with energy, based on where we're placing our focus and attention, you know, so if you're placing your focus on attention and attention on becoming a cardiologist, all kinds of energies are invited in to make you a cardiologist. And the more you put your focus and attention on it, the more energies that you'll get in that direction. The fourth principle is about that now, is the only place that exists, you know that there is only that there's only the present moment. The fifth principle is about Aloha, which means whatever you're doing, just add Love is love present. What's loves perspective is love perspective, present in the moment with what you're thinking with the idea of limitlessness with the idea of what you're putting your attention on in the present moment. The the the sixth principle is, is a Hawaiian word called mana. And that, that simply means that we have the power within us to create our reality that we are we know that nothing outside of us is more powerful than us, unless the authority within us grants the thing outside of us to be more powerful than us. And the last principle is about effectiveness. It just says, if it doesn't work, try something else. There are all kinds of ways to do something, you know, that anything is possible if you can figure out how to do it, you know, and so these are ways of these are ideas that are ways of working with life, and curating the life you want and manifesting the life you want, based on the idea that all the power to do that comes from what you're thinking about the realization that we're all connected, what you're putting your energy and focus on whether or not love is present, doing it in the present moment, because you have the power to do so and be flexible, and the right thing will emerge. So my the Hoonah principles are, are the way in which, as I worked with all these indigenous shamans across the world, the one thing that I saw was that they were all thinking the same way. And the Hoonah principles, which is what my book is about was the way in that's why I call it the shamans mind because it was the way in which all these indigenous healers tended to think, and it just happens to come from, from the Hawaiian paradigm. But it's a very universal way of thinking.

Alex Ferrari 43:44
Now, I heard you talk about the 100 Monkey effect in another interview, what is the 100 Monkey effect?

Jonathan Hammond 43:52
Yeah, 100, the 100 Monkey effect it it actually a lot of the principles that are involved, but essentially, there was an experiment done where on on a Japanese island, this true story that that monkeys were taught to wash their sweet potatoes in the sea before they before they would eat them. And what began happening was other monkeys on another Japanese island having not been taught that started to do the same thing.

Alex Ferrari 44:20
Interesting.

Jonathan Hammond 44:22
Yeah, if you think about it, it's just, you know, even the idea of like, that viruses that a certain virus will mutate on a worldwide scale with no connection with each other. So as the virus mutates, and in one country and another country, that the virus mutates as well, there is this sense of there's a consciousness as a consciousness with the with the consciousness with the with the monkeys, there's a consciousness with the virus, you know, there's a consciousness. There was a study done about a certain plant in Africa that was exposed to a pesticide and mutated In order for it to survive, and that same genus a plant worldwide began to mutate similarly, having not been exposed to the pesticide

Alex Ferrari 45:08
interesting, I never heard this before. Yeah. So that's the 100. Monkey effect.

Jonathan Hammond 45:13
Yeah. Yeah. It's just this idea that we're all that's why that's why what you do is affecting, you know, my Hawaiian teacher, Serge king, he says, If you want to heal someone, think of them and you feel good.

Alex Ferrari 45:25
Interesting. That's another interesting way of looking at things. So there's also something else you talked about, which is the danger zone. What is the danger zone? Besides, besides an amazing song, for an amazing, ageless, and the sequel and the sequels coming out in weeks,

Jonathan Hammond 45:45
You know, the danger zone is that's my, that's my term for you, we're one thing and you know, you're supposed to become the other thing. And there's this space in between, where the old way isn't right and the new ways and formed, but you're getting there. And in the danger zone is the place where you can bail on the new way. And just go back to the old way. Or another way to say it is that in order to change your vibration, you have to say no to what you previously said yes to. And when you start saying no to what you previous said, yes, yes. Do you go into the space, where the new way to do what you've said no to the new way is a coming into being, but it's not there. And that's a place where where people bail on themselves, and they build on their own healing, and they build on their own evolution, because it's a groundless place, you know, because I'm not that and I'm not that yet. You know, and, and we're all evolving, if we're doing it, right, we have entirely different iterations of ourselves, you know, and physiologically that happens every seven years, every every cell in your body is new, about every seven years, you know, and we're supposed to be doing that, in terms of in terms of our own evolution doesn't mean that you're necessarily leaving your your family or anything like that. But just in terms of in terms of our personal growth, we really are supposed to be shifting and changing. And so and so a lot of times when that feels tumultuous or uncomfortable, or scary. That's why That's why you want to work with someone you know. And that's why having a spiritual outlook because No, because you can only traverse the danger zone with faith. Because you're not that Yeah. You're hoping to be Yeah, So faith is a real key key component in terms of our evolution. You know,

Alex Ferrari 47:33
I have another question for him. And why are we, as people as just as beings, so afraid of living? You know, there's so many, we're afraid of so many things. And again, I'm not talking about the tiger on the corner. Yeah, I'm talking about this, just afraid of following your dreams, following your purpose. Believing in yourself not beating yourself up on a constant. We're just afraid all the time, this fear that is always there. Why do people have that? That fear that they're always just afraid of just living their lives?

Jonathan Hammond 48:10
Yeah. Well, first thing that comes up is just what were we taught. Because if we're supposed to be something that our family with human on the radar, you know, that if we're going to come to that, we're going to come to it from ourselves now, because we were taught that, and we were taught that where we're going is, is something that isn't okay, you know, so so that that's the first thing that comes up is just how are we socialized? Test, you know, that's a big thing. If you think of, if you think of there's, there's a part of the brain called the default network, and the default network is this part of the brain that is constantly trying to re ignite or recalibrate a continuity of selves. So it's scanning the past and scanning the future to keep doing what it understands to be you, you know, and so and that's the reason why making a change, even a positive change is difficult, because the default network is going and saying thing, and that includes all our bad habits, you know, all the all the all the things about ourselves that we don't like that's in there, too, you know, and so we have this continuity of self that is meant as survival that is meant to keep us safe, you know, and so and the reason why psychedelics are actually making such a resurgence right now is that psychedelics use therapeutically are about the destabilization of that default network so that new so that we become more suggestible and new realities and new ways of being and new ways of thinking of ourselves can come in, you know, so we're really up against them some biology, they're, you know, they're you know, we're trying to protect ourselves and so, so and that's about like doing what we know you know, and doing and that we and too many habits too much repetition too much of the same, you know, Right, that's a that's what I'm saying experience, experience. And the idea of curating a life where you are learning and experiencing whatever it is, you know, is, you know, that is that is putting you in flow with what the universe is doing, and certainly what the earth is doing.

Alex Ferrari 50:17
Now, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions asked, with all my guess what is your mission in this life?

Jonathan Hammond 50:24
I was a mess with child. And so everyone who comes to me has an inner child that has also been messed with, who has very funny ideas about him or herself, and about who they think they are. And so, and it's about taking care of them. It's about taking care of them. You know, people say to me, in my private practice, you work with kids, and I don't, but my answer is, all I have is kids. You know, so it's about it's about taking, taking care of the children who didn't, who didn't get what they needed to traverse life safely. And with a sense of Outlook and positivity and love and growth, and, and inspiration, you know,

Alex Ferrari 51:08
And what is the ultimate purpose in life?

Jonathan Hammond 51:10
To live, to get to experience to, to love in the present moment, to that, you know, and that may sound you know, solipsistic or, you know, egocentric or something, but it's not, it's about like, it's about becoming a human being and not a human doing.

Alex Ferrari 51:43
Fair enough. Now, where can people find your book and more about what you offer the world?

Jonathan Hammond 51:47
Yep, you can find me at mindbodyspiritmaui.com, mindbodyspiritmaui.com. My book is wherever books are sold, The Shaman's Mind, I think I have a copy of it here. It's shamans mind. So that's it. That's on Amazon. And you know, there are all kinds of places on the internet to get it. So there's that those are the best ways to reach me. And I've classes and teaching at the omega omega Institute in New York and in July and some online classes as well going so if you just go to my website, it's all on there.

Alex Ferrari 52:19
Jonathan I appreciate your time, my friend, thank you for what you're doing for the world. And I I do appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your knowledge with us my friend. Thank you so much.

Jonathan Hammond 52:27
Aloha Alex. Really great to be here. Thank you!

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