Why Does This Happen? Near Death Experiences in Childhood with Dr. PMH Atwater

In the vast expanse of human experience, few journeys are as profound and transformative as those encountered on the edge of life and death. On today’s episode, we welcome Dr. PMH Atwater, a pioneer in the study of near-death experiences (NDEs), particularly in children. Her work illuminates the mysterious realms that lie beyond our physical existence and offers profound insights into the nature of life, death, and consciousness.

Dr. Atwater’s journey into the realm of NDEs began with her own profound experiences. She died three times within three months, each experience different yet transformative. From these harrowing encounters, she emerged with a mission, guided by what she describes as “the voice like none other”—a voice that was not a guardian or an archangel, but a presence as vast as the universe itself. This voice tasked her with researching and documenting the near-death phenomenon, leading to her prolific career.

Her research has unveiled remarkable patterns, especially among children who have had near-death experiences. Unlike adults, children often describe their experiences with a simplicity and purity that is both enlightening and heart-wrenching. Dr. Atwater’s findings reveal that many children who experience NDEs between birth and the age of five exhibit extraordinary mental and artistic abilities as they grow. Yet, despite their advanced capabilities, a significant number of these children struggle with the desire to return to the other side, feeling a profound sense of displacement in this world.


  1. The Nature of Light: Dr. Atwater’s research highlights three distinct types of light experienced by children during NDEs: a powerful, non-specific light; a nurturing black light with purplish tinges; and a communicative white light sometimes interlaced with gold or silver. Children describe these lights as emanating from a greater “God light,” with the black and white lights representing mother and father energies, respectively. This classification underscores the diverse and deeply personal nature of spiritual experiences.
  2. The Importance of Visualization: One of Dr. Atwater’s most practical and profound findings is the power of visualization techniques for child experiencers. Teaching children how to visualize can help them navigate their longing to return to the other side, allowing them to reconnect with the profound sense of love and belonging they experienced during their NDEs while also grounding them in their earthly lives.
  3. The Concept of Home: The sense of “home” is a recurring theme in Dr. Atwater’s work. For many child experiencers, the other side feels more like home than the physical world. This longing for home can lead to significant emotional challenges, including PTSD and a persistent desire to return to the other side. Addressing this deep-seated yearning is crucial for their emotional and spiritual well-being.

Dr. Atwater’s work with children reveals that their near-death experiences often involve encounters with beings, lights, and realms that defy conventional understanding. For example, some children report meeting a “council of elders” or experiencing a life review that includes not only their actions but also the ripple effects of their thoughts and presence on the environment and others. These experiences offer profound lessons on the interconnectedness of all life and the far-reaching impact of our thoughts and actions.

In her book “The Forever Angels,” Dr. Atwater delves into the unique characteristics of child NDEs and how these experiences shape their lives. One striking finding is that many child experiencers, despite their advanced mental abilities, often feel out of place in this world and struggle with a deep sense of loss and longing for the other side. This highlights the need for greater awareness and support for children who have had NDEs, helping them integrate their experiences in a healthy and constructive manner.

Dr. Atwater’s own journey through three near-death experiences and her subsequent research has provided invaluable insights into the nature of life and death. Her work emphasizes that our experiences on the other side are deeply personal and varied, reflecting our individual spiritual paths. She advocates for a greater understanding of these experiences and the development of supportive practices, such as visualization, to help those who have had NDEs navigate their unique journeys.

In conclusion, the conversation with Dr. PMH Atwater offers a profound glimpse into the mysteries of near-death experiences, particularly in children. Her research underscores the importance of recognizing and supporting the unique needs of child experiencers, helping them integrate their extraordinary experiences into their earthly lives. Dr. PMH Atwater’s work is a testament to the profound interconnectedness of all life and the enduring power of love and light.

Please enjoy my conversation with Dr. PMH Atwater.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 156

Dr. PMH Atwater 0:00
And then there's this white or bright light sometimes with gold or silver in it but this white light and this is the light you can talk to this. This is a light you can converse with. And that's the skin good kids about tell me more about these lights. They said well, that white light that's father night

Alex Ferrari 0:40
I've been able to partner with Mindvalley to present you guys FREE Masterclass is between 60 and 90 minutes, covering Mind Body Soul Relationships and Conscious Entrepreneurship, taught by spiritual masters, yogi's spiritual thought leaders and best selling authors. Just head over to nextlevelsoul.com/free

I'd like to welcome to the show Dr. PMH Atwater. How are you doing Dr. Atwater?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:19
I'm doing great.

Alex Ferrari 1:21
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so excited to talk to you. It's you know, we, we had an adventure getting here to this point this morning, which is wonderful. But we're here now.

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:32
Now and I am grateful.

Alex Ferrari 1:35
So my I'm very intrigued by your work. And you know, I've had a lot of near death experiences on the show. And it's one of the topics that really fascinates me and again, so many different walks of life. But what I found really interesting about your work is your work with children and, and young people who have gone through NDA ease, which we'll talk about a little bit. But before we get into all that, how did you start working in the near death experience? Space?

Dr. PMH Atwater 2:02
I died.

Alex Ferrari 2:04
So you had your own NDE?

Dr. PMH Atwater 2:07
I died three to three times in three months. Wow. That's January to January for March. Oh, I think it was March 23, something like that. And then later that fall, I had three major relapses. Um, and oh, how can I put it into words? I I had to relearn how to crawl how to stand how to walk, how to tell the difference between left and right how to see properly hear properly, and rebuild all my belief systems. I was raped, became pregnant. It was because of difficulties with the pregnancy. The three deaths were you know, from their miscarriage. And they were all alone in complex each was different. And the third one yes, the third one voice spoke and lots of lots of you know, aspects to it. But namely, this voice spoke I call it the voice like none other. It was not a guide. It was not a guardian. And it is not an archangel. It was none of that stuff. It was a voice so big. Like the universe itself talking to me. And that voice said, test revelation. You are to do the research. One book for each death. Oh, mmm. Book one was not named. Books two and three were named. Book Two is future memory. If you haven't read that book yet, you need to do it. It because it's not a book. It is a labyrinth. Every sentence every paragraph every page is part of the mathematics. I was given and and used to create the labyrinth. So therefore, you read through it like you would walk through a real labyrinth. You can't skip read or you know, you'll think I wrote a dumb book. In other words, you stay on the path. And the purpose of future memory the book is to bring your consciousness up to the next highest level possible for you at that time. And the third book was a manual for developing humans. It's a fun book you know oh of us. We are ever taught how to be a human being. I mean, when you go to the first grade, what do you learn? When you go to kindergarten? What do you learn? What are you on the sixth grade? What do you learn? Who teaches us how to be a human being? And you know, several? Maybe, maybe it's out, you know, 1500 years ago, 2000 years ago, I don't know how long, long ago, people used Hugh, for the sign of God for the voice of God, who was God. AQ Hughes. So human was God, man, God woman. So it's literal. A manual for developing humans, is to help you be the the human being you are that you were born to be to be a co creator with a creator. I mean, that's who we are. That's what we are. That's what we're here for. So let me be a co creator with the Creator. And that book shows you how.

Alex Ferrari 6:08
So let's go back for a second. So you said you had three near death experiences? And when you went through those three units, what happened? Can you kind of guide us through a little bit of the first three? Well, the all three of them exactly what happened when you went to the other side and what you saw and so on,

Dr. PMH Atwater 6:22
Okay. If you, if you want an exact we'll be here for hours.

Alex Ferrari 6:27
Okay, so just give me give me the Clip Notes.

Dr. PMH Atwater 6:31
Clip note, death, number one. I ran to the bathroom. And I boarded the toilet. And the pain was so bad that I rose up, I swear into the heavens itself. And I was screaming at the heavens. And I heard my voice echo throughout the heavens itself. And when I, when I looked down, this is the funny part. I saw my body all bloody on the on the floor. I'm a neatnik. There's no way I'm gonna own over 10 of that body is my own, because it's all messy. But I kept bumping into the light bulb. And in my case, in my first one, the light was the light bulb. And I kept bumping into the light bulb, and I couldn't figure out why I was bumping into the bulb. And then there there came like blobs. Like every thought i i thought issued a blob in the air, like ink blots, and I couldn't figure out what they were and I didn't like them. And so pretty soon I found myself jerked back into my body literally jerked. You know, you know, you got a rubber band and you're stretching out and then you let go and wham. And I entered through the top of the head where your fontanelle as you know your baby and pull back into my body back to my toes. You're much bigger on the other side than you are on this side. So you have to squeeze to get back in. Well, I was still bleeding. And I couldn't figure out why. So I went to bed and stuffed myself with as many pillows and blankets as I could and went back to sleep. I can always sleep I'm a cop's kid. I was raised in a police station. And they use the field outside of my window and Twin Falls Idaho, we lived outside of town and they use this that field as their gunnery range. And I never ever heard him I never believed my dad that they were shooting guns out there. Because I never heard one when I when I go to sleep, that's it gone. Um, so you know, that was not unusual for me at all. And it finally occurred to me that maybe I ought to go to a doctor time but finally got it got it got the message. I have three children. I have two daughters. And they went on to school and to the best of my ability I got in my car. And it took Oh, it took me seemed like for forever to drive like maybe five or six blocks to the doctor's office and why When I walked in the door, the head nurse was there. And she screamed, she said, I looked like that I had died. So she rushed me under the doctor told him everything that happened. And all he did was laugh. He laughed at me. He said, Here you are, in this condition at your age, and all we do is laugh. What, which was very kind. So he gave me a shot in the right thigh vein. Which, if he would have read my records, he would have known I couldn't take the shot and sent me home. And it took me almost as long to get home, it's to get there. And the minute I walked in the door, the bleeding stopped, the hemorrhaging stopped, like, like, you turn a faucet, and it's gone. But the pain began in especially the right leg. And I thought, well, I just gotta go back to bed again. So I went back to bed again, and instantly asleep. And didn't wake up till the next morning when my daughter was shaking me and saying, you know, should I call the office, you can come come to, you can come back to work. And I said, Yes, call them tell them I can't come. My My legs are lots and lots of pillows propped way high. And that's the first time I ever looked at my leg, right leg, right thigh, and it was crimson red, there was a large bump growing out the side of my leg. And I just couldn't figure out what it was or what was going on. So I decided to call for help. We had a ranch style house. In those days, you didn't have you know what you have now. All we had was a wall phone in the kitchen. That's it, period, end of story. So I began to crawl from my bedroom, through the living room to the dining room to get to the wall phone in the kitchen. And it took me forever to crawl. Because very very painful. And I made it as far as the dining room. And, and I died I just I died and I floated up from my body. And lots and lots of things happened. incredible things happen, being able to see thought create things on the other side.

Alex Ferrari 13:09
Were you met by somebody?

Dr. PMH Atwater 13:10
No, never was the idea that you're always met by someone is false. Most people are met by someone but not everybody. And in my cases I was never met by anyone in all three.

Alex Ferrari 13:26
So did you have so you never had a being you never had a council of elders? Did you have life reviews or anything like that?

Dr. PMH Atwater 13:32
And this one I did. Okay, I had a life review. I had, I had an experience with creation, I had an experience with the void and then I had the the life review. And in my case that life review in club included not only what I did but the result of every thought I had ever thought on the environmental on other people on the world at large. Plus my just being in the earth world of the vibration of my being here that what the causality of that was with the air with the water with the ground with the plans. So I had to hold the assault of my ever haven't existed in the earth plane. And that to me was hell in the sense that nobody ever told me that ever every thought you think goes out and has a life of its own. Nobody ever taught me that nobody ever taught me that my my vibration. Just be In the world, wherever I walked, changes the world, or affects the world, or has an effect on the rocks, the plants, you know, everything, the air. Nobody ever told me that. And that to me was a shock. And I was just looking at that, oh, my goodness. And, you know, many, many things happened being very much in the void and realizing what the void was. Which what was it? You know, the idea that Ah, nothing in the void, there's absolutely, it's completely pure black, there's nothing there. But there is a vibration. It's very similar to when you're, when you're making jello, and you've just fluffed the jello out of it out of the dish onto a plate. And just as you begin to touch that jello on the plate, you're almost almost there. And there's this there's this happening this sense. This, this wiggle. And it's that we call it is responsible for creation. Okay, it's that sense of movement, movement, but not movement. That that all creation comes from? Yeah, it was just fantastic. Um,

Alex Ferrari 17:12
When you came back from your near death experience is that when you started to like, I have to start studying these and start interviewing other people who had these experiences.

Dr. PMH Atwater 17:21
That was my third one. And my third one. That was when I met the voice. That's when I was told to do this work. I was not told how to do it, or how long it would take me. And the only way I could think of where I could do this kind of work this research was to use police investigative techniques, because that's what I knew. I was raised in a police station. I knew police investigative techniques. Now that that's the techniques back in the 40s. And I knew those techniques. So when I was reasonably human, which took a year, lots of things involved with with that. What really helped me to be to discover who and what I really were what was, was in November, when I wasn't getting well the doctor was concerned and my friends were concerned. So they decided together that I shouldn't be taken up to Seattle, Washington to the mind miraculous symposium. And and that would help me and that's exactly what happened. Can you believe a doctor to get up at 530 in the morning to give his patient a you know, a shot in the arm and lots of you know, medicine so I could be trumped up. But that's what happened. And when to the mind, numeric miraculous and symposium and the first speaker, Dr. William Tiller physics at CES at Stanford. He has taught his talk was the eternal Now. And he believed that everything was simultaneous, everything. And at the end of his talk, I can't remember any of his talk, but at the end of his talk, he Yes. There there was this great huge giant screen maybe five six stories tall, I mean, huge green. And on that screen, he flashed up his drawing his graph Have what the eternal Now looks like in physics. How you can draw that in physics. And it was the exact same thing I saw in my third near death experience exact. And I jumped up from that chair and ran out into the foyer and collapsed under a wall sconce. And I just cried and cried and cried. I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. He saw it, too. He knows about it. I'm not crazy. And from that moment on, I began to get well, I got well, right away. And in 1978, I, yeah, I just walked out on my life. I did on the very day I was to become a bank. Executive, you know, in those days, when women didn't become bank executives, but on the very day that I can have a bank take title. I quit my job. I walked into my boss's office on a Monday morning. I was supposed to have a an appointment with my boss I did. I was there and I told my boss, you know, I'm sorry. But I'm quitting my job, and I'm going to chase rainbows. And my boss went white. She said, sit down. Don't say another word. My boss very, very logical, wow. Logical. And, and at four o'clock that morning, she had been awakened by a very unusual dream. When she went to her boss, and said to him, I'm going to have to replace me because I was going to chase rainbows. That's not fair. You knew before I did. I didn't know till nine that morning. She knew at four in the morning. So I sold my home, stored or sold everything I had, my two other children decided to go elsewhere. My son Dan was off taking a cruise School of borders square rigger and in the Atlantic Ocean, and, and decided to join the Coast Guard, my oldest daughter decided to be a drafter at a large architectural firm, my youngest daughter decided to live and, and go live with her father. And so all of a sudden, they were gone. And then I was gone. And I went first, to the Pacific Ocean to watch the sunset silver over the Pacific. And then I crossed the United States, fulfilling all my childhood dreams and wishes. Wow, I wound up in the DC area watching the sun rise golden over the Atlantic. And that's when I began. And I began telling my story. Of course, at a police station, they had a very large police station. And one row was distributed for the public, before the public, and so it's so I told my story. And the frightful thing that happened to me was after I I was over, a woman came up, came up to me with stars in her eyes, and she said, Oh, I wish something would happen like that to me. So I could do it too. And it's like horror. I mean, did I do something to do mislead her? You know, meditation are the other different ways that you can you can learn more about your own soul and spirituality. But she was thinking that she should die because I did and it just horrified me to that. I never talked about my own near death experience again for decades.

Alex Ferrari 24:47
But you were doing the work but you were still doing research.

Dr. PMH Atwater 24:51
Oh, that's what I started to do the research.

Alex Ferrari 24:54
So let me so then let me ask you this because I know you've interviewed, I think over 7000 Things or something along those lines of people with new death experiences. But tell me about

Dr. PMH Atwater 25:04
Nearly 5000 adults and children.

Alex Ferrari 25:06
So tell me about your work with children, because there's not a lot of literature about your other than yourself about near death experiences and children. What What was your what? Tell me about your work with children?

Dr. PMH Atwater 25:23
Well, well, of course, you know, I began with with children many, many, many, many years ago. And I found them very different, of course, in the way they talk about something like this. With the child, you're never above their eye level ever, ever, you can't be or they fear or feel that they must obey. You have to be at their eye level, so that you are a friend. So with the little ones, of course, I spent a lot of time on the floor. And we would just talk and I would just talk about their experience they had and tell me about it. Tell me about it. And then I haven't talked to the parents, what's your child like now? Yeah, well, before that after. That led to more and more meetings and opportunities with children, even those that have grown, maybe were in their 20s and 30s 30s, that were talking about their experiences as a child and what happened to them. And I wrote my first book about that the new children and near death experiences. But then I got to thinking, you know, this isn't enough, this isn't good enough. There's something else here that I need to go much further and deeper with. And that was taking a better look a deeper look at those that had the experience between birth and the age of five. Because those children or different from any other children, even tweens and teens. So there's something going on here. So I devoted years more.

Ah, how can I say this? I found that with those that had their experience between birth and the age of five. They had nothing to compare anything with, right? So there's not this idea of mom and dad and brothers and sisters and this kind of thing. I found very clearly that 90% did not bond with their parents. That doesn't mean they didn't love them. It should never bonded with them. They the way they viewed the world was very different from than any other kid. They knew more than their parents did. They knew more than their siblings did. They knew more than their teacher did. And so they had a lot of problems with attacks and criticism from other kids in school. That was a big issue with these these youngsters. But there was just something really different about these kids. When I say that, I am going to say let's see, do I have some numbers here I can give you I'd love to be able to give you Well, let's see. I don't have it at hand right now. So okay. Yes, I do. Birth to 215 years. I changed that. To birth, just under six these youngsters giving an IQ test when they were older. You know, when they were in school, they're giving the IQ test 48% Now that this is a specific study 397 People all bore at that expense ranges between birth and the age of five. So when they're a little bit older in school, and they take the standard IQ test, they were scoring between 150 to 160 40%, we're scoring between 150 to 160. This is genius. However, if they had, if it was birth to 15 months, if they had a dark light experience, instead of bright light experience, or a white light experience, they were worse, they were scoring 190. And above all of them. Have them. When you're talking about kids, you're talking about three lights, you're not talking about one. When the kids, when the kids talk about light, there is this incredibly powerful, powerful, powerful light, doesn't have any specific color at all, just really powerful light. And then there's this, this dark or black light, some sometimes with purple tinge isn't it. And there's something about this to be very loving, and very wonderful and very nourishing about this black light. And then there's this white or bright light, sometimes with gold or silver in it, but this white light, and this is the light, you can talk to this, this is a light you can converse with. And ask these kids about, tell me more about these lights. And they said, well, that white line, that's father light, that black light, that's Mother light, and dad, all consuming, huge light. That's father. That that's God's light. And the father light and the mother light, they come from God's light. And so they were very, very clear about this

Alex Ferrari 32:17
And multiple kids saying things like this.

Dr. PMH Atwater 32:20
It didn't matter where I was in Canada or the United States or where I was there, they were very clear about the differences between these street lights. And if and if you get the book The Forever angels, please, please, please, everybody on the planet, get the book The Forever angels. Because that that's what takes you through my research of children between birth and the age of a five. And you must read that because these kids are not like any other kids. Their near death experiences are not like any other near death experience are different.

Alex Ferrari 33:03
So what is the typical near death experience? I can say typical near death experience for children at Independence, is it different for a five year old versus a one or two year old? No, no, it isn't. So what is a typical one?

Dr. PMH Atwater 33:19
Well, let me give you some of my cases. Okay, please. In this one case, this is Penny and she's in neutral. She's not born yet. And, and it's her mother's smoking bothers her so much. And she dreads her mother's taking out a cigarette and smoking.

And then that alone, she felt like she was choking and she was dying with another child. This one is Alma. Alma was about two years old. A family friend, a male, a big male with a big tummy would often come to visit the family. And when he wouldn't see her door open, he would go into her bedroom and shut the door and he would rape her curled so you got this big guy on top of her and and she can't breathe and he's raping her. And she leaves her body. Certainly in a near death experience is she's up there on the ceiling. I want everybody to hear this. When a child leaves their body in fright or trauma you Yeah, if they want help, that's their way of saving their soul. That's their way of saving who they are. It is not an out of body trip. It is an emergency save. They're trying to save who they are. So this is what Alma did. She tried to save who she was. And she would, would take these out of body trips. Another one that you'll love, kind of like what I've talked about with lights, this is star and star when she was still hadn't been born yet. was still on the other side, and it was all black, or dark. And she was there with other beings. She was choosing her life to come. And she was kind of, you know, one river rendering you what if, what if, what if, and all of a sudden she's pushed in? And she's stuck on this the other side? Of so for her that was very traumatic. It's like, this perfect world and I get shoved in, you get, you get a lot of that kind of thing.

Alex Ferrari 36:33
But that sounds like but that sounds more like a pre birth memory as opposed to a near death experience. Is that fair?

Dr. PMH Atwater 36:41
Kind of Yes. It kind of No. Okay. When we're talking about pre birth memory. What we're talking about is that stream of consciousness. That, that seems to be that we're all a part of. And I can't just describe this, this is you come in, you take a dip, and then you go back out. And that's all a life is it's a dip.

Alex Ferrari 37:17
And yeah, you're there on the other side. And for many of them, they don't want to take the dip. They get shoved or they get pushed it or for some reason, they're shoved in. And that's trauma. A lot of, of child experiences, especially between birth in the age of five, are very uncomfortable here.

Dr. PMH Atwater 37:48
They don't like being here. And there's Well, let me give you a comparison here. 74 74% of these kids they develop incredible mental abilities, artistic abilities, all kinds of abilities, and they go out and make a very good life for themselves.

There were a number of new hooping who became millionaires a very rich and happy and good life. Yet remember that 74% 74% regretted being here and preferred to be on the other side went through PTSD and wanted to die. It is not unusual with children who who try to commit suicide not unusual at all. Let me give you an idea about this for a child for a small child I'm where they were was so filled with love. So much love so much joy. And they were not breathing there. When they start breathing, that world is gone. So for a child logic to a child is if I Stop my breathing, I can get Sure. So they stopped their breathing to get back their deaths. Yeah, that's it, that's the whole thing a child doesn't realize that killing themselves is not necessarily a good deal and it and it would hurt their parents and, you know, all of these problems could, could occur. So there's a whole chapter in the book PT SD with the nd e 34%. Now that's 397 experiencers 34% were positive about their experience 61% were negative about their experience

Alex Ferrari 40:56
Experience meaning the the Near Death Experience. So is that the white light Black Light concept you were talking about?

Dr. PMH Atwater 41:04
All of them. And the reason for this upset was they all simply wanted to go home. They felt a guilt for wanting to go back, a betrayal for getting kicked out. And, you know, dealing with this, this idea of I still want to go back this this woman, one woman under who was 82 she was still longing to go back. But she's 82 in the in the Forever angels in that book. It's based on people, children who have the near death experiences as a child, and going forward. And they're looking forward. They're growing maybe 2120 to 25. Then I went after those people who were very, very mature, maybe 60 7080. and verify their near death experience. And that 82 Woman Good because she had a sister that was 67 and remembered it if they can verify their experience. I asked them one one question looking back did that near death experience you had did it make any difference in your life and, and the results were just tremendous. It gives us the first and only study we have the great round. That's why Bruce Grayson put it as a great round you see, you see before and you see after coming in coming back, the older person looking back the younger, younger child looking forward, you see the great round. And you realize that this idea of home this idea of belonging, this idea of love is behind all of it. It's behind all of it, either surviving and making life of yourself or regretting it. And, and, and, and, you know, maybe in regret for being here, it's all about home. And what I found is so simple to get rid of the whole thing. Really, for most of them when they're still a child, teach them how to take visualization, visualize visualization classes, teach them visualization. If they learn visualization techniques, when they're a child, then they can go back there stay a little while come back here because this is where their job is. And and that's all it takes to go back and relive it again or be be with their friends and then come back here and everything is fine with mom and dad and and you know in school, that's all it took visualization techniques. And you know I'm screaming as a researcher saying Wake Up World Yeah, Oh, if we, if we want to help our child experiencers here is a powerful exercise we can use, that will make all the difference in the world. You know, incredible. And another thing. And now I'm going a little bit forward here. And I'm talking about abortion. And I, when we need to talk about abortion, and I talked about it in the book. And you know, the woman's right to choose and all of this kind of thing. In my research, that one big major study through 397 people, the vast majority could remember their birth 1/3 could remember life in the womb. Two of them, remembered conception. One of them when she was older, do a picture of it, gave it to her parents, and they were so embarrassed, she was absolutely right, all the positions, everything, she got it all. There's more going on here than what we prefer to look at. And in my own family, I have two daughters and son. And one of my daughters got pregnant out of out of you know, she wasn't married, got pregnant, didn't want the child, far too early in her life. And she came to me and said, Mom, Mom, what do I do? And I said, My dear, it's not the woman's right to choose. It's the soul. You must go to the soul. And talk this over with the soul. You're dealing with a soul here, not just a bunch of cells. You're dealing with a soul of a human being. So she did. She went and she prayed to God, and he got into deep meditation, and she prayed. And the little soul was a boy, little boy. And she explained to this little boy boy that she really wasn't ready at all. And when he please leave. And he said, Sure, no problem. I'm happy to leave, I'll go somewhere else and find another mother. So she got her abortion, she felt good, the family felt good. Everybody felt good about it. If that child had said, Yes, I want to come with you. Then that means there's something special to learn between the two. So when I hear all this news now today about the woman's right to choose, I'm saying to myself, it's the souls right to choose. Get in touch with the soul of that child and find out what the child wants.

Alex Ferrari 48:19
So let me ask you did with all the research that you've done with children, were there any unpleasant or how like experiences that they went through? Oh, yes. So can you talk a little bit about what that is? Because it meets it I understand on older an older person who's been around a little bit that might go through a hellish experience because they're dealing with stuff that they're dealing with and so on and so forth. But a child, it's interesting, so please let me know what what did what did you find?

Dr. PMH Atwater 48:48
Well, in my research base, broadly was one out of seven. In my research of adults and children, one out of seven had a hellish or unpleasant experience, you know, we have to say unpleasant because not all of them are really hellish. With a child, this one child saw, kind of like black beings with pointed fingers, and they were after her. There's a little girl they were after. And she, she was screamed her way out of the experience. We had an I had another case where we wouldn't necessarily call it hellish, but it was to her. Where there was this big stage and on that stage, she was acting out or saw elements in her life, where she was attacked. are getting are having problems with her sisters and she was attacking her sisters. And, and to her that was just awful, awful awful, because she can see how our attacks against your sisters were wrong. She shouldn't be doing that. And she came back so horrified that she did it she had done that, that it just caused her a lot of difficulty until she got older. And could it could then begin to realize that this was not just a warning, but you know, a helpful way of her to just see her behavior and the effect it had on others. So that was another one.

Alex Ferrari 51:04
No do because I've heard other other new death experience stories that that are hellish, like or unpleasant. But then it turns into a positive meaning being of light comes in, you know, takes them away, or it turns into something positive, they just have to kind of go through that first, in order to get to the positive. Was that the case in children? Or was it elegent they came back

Dr. PMH Atwater 51:28
It was the case with children to most of them came back and then dealt with it and began to learn you know what it meant for them what they could do about that?

Alex Ferrari 51:47
But there was a puppet they did they did go to a positive place before they came back? Or did they come back from

Dr. PMH Atwater 51:55
Like that little girl on all these fingers and nails after she came back with that still very real, okay. And her life was machine did not at all deal with that on the other side knows you had to deal with it on this side. So So you you get all of these different types. You know, there are clearly four types of Near Death Experiences. Please tell me that what I call the initial where maybe it's just a brief out of body experience, or the loving nothingness. Or there's a friendly voice, and that's all there is to it. There's the unpleasant or hellish experience. I think we know about that one. We have the pleasant or heavenly experience, not even not even over or over 50% of that I had 48% has a heavenly and then there's the ascendant. The Ascendant experience with the ascendant experience. It almost never ever talks about the family, or anything to do with the family, or the person as an individual. You'll get your past life experiences with the unpleasant or the pleasant, but you don't get it with a transcendent. Let me get give you let me give you an example of a transcendent experience. And this is Ricky Bradshaw. His case was horrendous. And when he was in a iron lung with fighting to come back. He was shown all of history from beginning to end. He was told that he could never talk about the future. He can only talk about the past and now. Ricky Bradshaw became one of the most incredible cases in history. He was ground in half. Actually, he was as sort of a bag boy to go shoot store is like 2020 one's getting money for college. And then these two cars were in front of the grocery store. And there were older ladies. And he was bending over to put the bag of groceries into the trunk of a car. When the woman behind him somehow, for some reason, had problems with the gas pedal or something, and she suddenly learnt lunch, her car lunged forward. And the woman in the car in front van lunged backward. And Ricky was caught in the middle. He fell. So that to two fenders, ground him in half at the mid level, the only thing left attached was his spinal cord. That's it. No, of course, the police came, the ambulance came, He was rushed to the hospital. There was nothing they could do about him. So they just, you know, put wood into one side. Well, unfortunately for Ricky that's having to be a teaching hospital. And and so here's some wouldn't be doctors that are down there. And they go to their head and they say, Do you have any cadavers around here that we can play with? He said, Yeah, you can have this guy over here. And that was Ricky. They put him in another room hooked him all up. And you know, we're doing that the pretend Doctor thing. And all of a sudden the machine begin began to register heartbeat would be doctors thought there was something wrong with the machine.

Alex Ferrari 56:53
How long was he dead?

Dr. PMH Atwater 56:56
Um, long enough for it to be hospital, put in the agenda, the room hooked up by these wouldn't be doctors Gotcha. For them to run and and find a real doctor and bring him back and show him the machinery and saying, you know, there's something wrong with this machine. It's showing a heartbeat. And the doctor screamed and said, he's really coming back. And so that real doctor took over. And then we have the case of Ricky Bradshaw.

Alex Ferrari 57:35
So what happened to Ricky on the other side? He sounds like a fascinating case.

Dr. PMH Atwater 57:39
Oh, my, oh, my lots and lots more than I could ever tell you.

Alex Ferrari 57:46
Can you give me some good guy highlights? I mean, besides the I saw the entire history of humanity thing. That's a pretty big one.

Dr. PMH Atwater 57:58
One of the things that Ricky had to deal with was his lungs wouldn't work. So let's put in an iron lung. And yeah, and he was in this room. Nobody else was there. And and the light kept flicking on and off. And then iron lung kept flicking on and off and he's panicking. What do I do? What do I do? He prayed and prayed and prayed. Nobody told him? Well, of course, they wouldn't tell him that one of the average after effects of a near death experience is electrical sensitivity. He was doing that himself. You know, in my office right here is all set up to handle my energy. Otherwise, I couldn't do a zoom show with you. Let me know where I couldn't handle a keyboard. I can't handle an iPhone or you know, cell phone or that I'm in I mean, my husband could do that but I can't. I brought down the power of many a building or certainly part of the building where I was because of my own electrical sensitivities. So So

Alex Ferrari 59:29
Ricky's surekey, seeing the eyes, the lights going back and forth. So what happened

Dr. PMH Atwater 59:38
Well, he then began slowly but surely to catch on to the fact that may maybe he can handle this through prayer. And he did.

Alex Ferrari 59:56
Dr. Atwater I mean, it's I mean it this is a fascinating Good conversation. Your research has been your research is pretty remarkable in regards to children and what they've been the genius thing that was pretty remarkable. And, you know, they're so closely connected to the other side, I've heard so many times, people saying that children, they, when they're younger, they're pure joy because they're connected to the other side. And as they're conditioned or trained in being a human, they start to slowly get that, that goes away, and they become more what we are, and a day to day basis. But the fascination is of them dying, coming back at a very young age of five year olds and all the common commonalities. Yeah, how many children? Did you interview over the years?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:00:49
Oh, well, I can't really give you a number because my research bases nearly 5000 adults and children, that one major study I did was 300 397. But there's lots of kids besides that. But But again, this idea that we really, really need to take a second look at kids. When they're older, fine, but when they're young, we needed we really need to look at that. It's not what we think, you know, we human beings love a good story. You know, we love all the angels and all this wonderful and beautiful things children are saying, Okay, who goes back to the that good eight years later? 13 years later, 27 years later? Luck friend. It takes for the average near death experiencer it takes seven to 10 years to integrate the experience. Are they ever average child experiencer it takes 20 to 40 years. Wow, a child does not integrate? A child compensates. So you're looking at some you're looking at a whole different package. Because a child as they're growing up, they'll do everything they can to mind mom and dad, or, you know, get along in school do what their teachers do. And when they get older, do what the crowd does. Let me give you an example right now. About three months ago, I received a phone call. It was from from a cop on the beat. In New York City. He was in his late 40s. He was crying. He just got a hold of the book, The Forever angels and read it. He said for the first time in my life. I know I'm normal. This is a big one with kids. Children do not integrate their experience. They compensate. And that's exactly what the cop did. Let's fast. We need to take another look at kids.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:44
Well, I'm Dr. Atwater. I'm going to have a few mlsu A few questions ask all of my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:03:54
Laughter laughter joy no matter what I'm doing no matter where I am. Even if I'm pissed. Laughter and joy.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:08
How do you define God?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:04:13
All that is

Alex Ferrari 1:04:15
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:04:20
It'd be different for different people. But if we're gonna look at it as you are attempting to, I would say we're here to learn

Alex Ferrari 1:04:40
And where can people find out more about you and your work that you're doing?

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:04:45
www.pmhatwater.com. I produce a free monthly newsletter. Get on that website. Go over to newsletter. Fill out the form Um, you're in it's free, it's monthly there's an archive. You can go through the archive and see previous previous issues I warn everybody my newsletter is for the curious if you're not curious, you won't like my newsletter.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:20
And of course they can get your books on Amazon.

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:05:23
Yes. It's on my website too.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:27
Dr. Atwater I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your your research and your journey and your experiences with everybody here. So I appreciate you my dear, thank you so much.

Dr. PMH Atwater 1:05:37
Bye bye!

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