While obtaining his degree in communication studies from Oakland University, Curtis Childs experienced an internal battle with depression that led him to question God and his lifelong interest in Swedenborgian theology. After a period of intense suffering, he recovered from his depression with the help of modern medicine, therapy, and a return to the spiritually uplifting messages he found in Swedenborg’s writings.
Curtis is applying his education and desires to help others find peace through Swedenborg’s insights by producing and hosting this weekly webcast. He’s happiest when he can use Swedenborg’s concepts to help someone solve something they used to think was unsolvable.
Curtis has appeared on many international radio shows, podcasts, and YouTube shows, such as Talk Gnosis, Sunday Morning Spiritual, The Butterfly Moment, Dark Thirty Radio, and We Don’t Die Radio, and has been a speaker at several conferences, including TCCHE and IANDS.
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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 297
Curtis Childs 0:00
He talks about heaven, the world of spirits, and hell, Heaven and Hell are psychological states. This is another way in which he wildly divergent from the traditional Christian understanding yet still uses similar terminology. Heaven is fundamentally a state in which you enjoy doing what is good to other people to heaven is the joy of doing what it's good to other people. Hell is the joy of harming other people. And that might sound strange, because we don't really think of it like that. But really, what why, why do people like why do you flick that guy off in traffic? Why do you try to get the last word and why do you try to route what do people conquer each other and try to rule because there's this, Hey, I like to be on top ego, ego. So the joy of ego.
Alex Ferrari 0:57
I'd like to welcome to the show Curtis Childs. How you doing Curtis?
Curtis Childs 1:00
Doing really well. Thanks for having me on.
Alex Ferrari 1:02
Thank you so much for coming on the show my friend, I'm excited to talk to you. You have a you're gonna introduce me and introduce my audience to a very interesting fellow to say the least. And his work. And we're going to talk about the afterlife from his perspective. And it's going to be an interesting conversation. So my first question to you, man is what got you caught up in all of this stuff that you do with your YouTube channel and the work that you've been doing for, Now for a couple of years now apparently,
Curtis Childs 1:31
We have, we have more than 1000 videos made just looking through and explaining and delving into and exploring Emanuel Swedenborg material. And that's not like, if you're going to start a growth strategy for YouTube. It's not like, oh, everybody's searching Swedenborg. You know, nobody knows who he is.
Alex Ferrari 1:49
That's not a hot topic is that he's not trending.
Curtis Childs 1:53
We all just sell out and talk about Swedenborg is what? No, that's not what it is. Yeah, it was 2010 when I made my first YouTube video about it, and that was really, back, before I even knew that YouTube had any depth to it, or future. Well, I just thought if if you fall off your skateboard, and your friend records that he puts it on YouTube, or if like a cat jumps into a box, they'll put that on YouTube. But at the time, I was trying to figure out, how can I get the word out about the power of Swedenborg experiences and ideas to change lives because it had changed mine. And I was so I was looking up what's there on YouTube. And when I got there, way, way back in the day, it's changed a bit since then. But there was a very polarized conversation where you had it was sort of in the throes of new Atheism. It was like a Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and a lot of their followers, were really finding YouTube as this way to kind of look at what was wrong with Christian theology and tear it down. And then you had on the whole other side, some, I feel like Christian fundamentalists who were saying, well just believe, just believe. And there was nothing in the middle. And I felt like oh, Swedenborg fits right in there, the people who are looking for, like a more credible, rational kind of bringing together of the mystical and the everyday but also of the science and spirituality, which I know you talk about on your channel a lot, which I want to really get to, because I feel like Swedenborg is the clashing of of science and spirituality. I mean, he was absolutely, that's a new story in itself. But so I was looking around and I saw actually, on YouTube, people are having these these conversations about the big things in life that does it, does God exist? And so I thought, Okay, I'll see if we can, we can find any way to sneak Swedenborg into that conversation. So I mean, that's the short story of how I got on there. And the longer story is that I had been going through some struggles, I had some mental health issues. It's like 1819, like everybody does at that age, I was depressed, I had all these negative thoughts, and I was constantly worried about things I had, you know, obsessive compulsive, where you have to, you have to feel like you have to, okay, I've got, I'm not really gonna tap the microphone, because that's bad for the sound. But I would feel like I got to tap this thing seven times, I really did a little. And I just felt like, I knew it was stupid. But also I was like, Oh, I better just do it. Because what if something bad happens? I was just a mess. And it was around that time that I had heard of Swedenborg, before my parents had actually read Swedenborg I knew what that it was around. But it was in that time when I began to realize, oh, this is describing my mind and how it works. This is actually a really powerful, like, what are the levers that can pry me out of these sort of pits that I'm in and from then on, I knew that it's like if everybody was thirsty, and there was a drought and you found like, there's a there's actually a well over here that still works. You'd want to tell everyone about it. So I kind of feel like I'm just trying to pass along the value that That Swedenborg material had for me that I do it probably for the same reason you're doing your show, which is we're trying to make life better. And the world as it is, and as we understand it isn't quite do it. So what's that missing piece? Right? What, why? Why isn't life so great, we got all this amazing technology and everything, but people are not that happy a lot of the time. To me, I feel like Swedenborg has something to offer. It's that missing piece. So that's what I'm trying to get the word out about it and how it can help
Alex Ferrari 5:29
Do you do you think that like, for me, that was Paramahansa Yogananda like that, that was that was my guy who started that was the that was the rabbit hole I went down. And and it was really interesting to see how that changed my worldview. And that just opened me up to so many different views. And I always say to people, like, you know, there's so many different ways to climb the mountain. There's so many different paths to take, but we're all going towards the same top. Would you agree with that?
Curtis Childs 6:02
Yeah. Well, it has to be you can't, you can't just say what I'm doing is right, and everything everyone else is doing. Right. They don't know anything. And then there have been, you know, there has been some religious traditions that sort of take that view on
Alex Ferrari 6:20
You're being kind,
Curtis Childs 6:21
You may say, a bit of a maybe it's a feature, not a bug because it keeps people in your church, because if they leave it, then you know, they got hell or worse. But there's no way that that's true. There's no way that that's you think about the depth and complexity of all the human beings on planet earth. And the way that it doesn't matter what your tradition is, or what your rituals are or your background. There's always like, goodness and love. And then the opposite of that. It doesn't matter. It could be a village village in India or in the Philippines, that there can be kids. And either they're going to include someone or they're not. That's the and this was something that was very remarkable about Swedenborg, in his time will start to break into that conversation. But so Swedenborg timeframe, if anyone hasn't heard of him, he's Emanuel Swedenborg. And he was living. He was born in the late 1600s, but really did a lot of the work that we're gonna be talking about in the mid 1700s. He lived in Sweden. That's why his name was Swedenborg. Actually, it started out as spread very, but when he got ennobled, it changed the Swedenborg trivia you don't need there it is. But he is one of the many facets of this revelatory or mystical journey he went on was, he came out of it saying that you don't have to be a Christian to go to heaven. He said he saw this afterlife and it was full of people from many different religions. And that actually more important than your religious ideology, which could actually be a stumbling block if it if it locked you into self centeredness, materialism was, Are you are you following God as you understand God? And are you living basically a 10 commandments kind of style life, not not murdering, not not killing? Those Gentle, gentle things, we can all agree on that stuff that if you don't agree, it's like, I don't want to sit next to you. It's not that other things don't matter. And it's not that they can't be powerful tools. It's not that there aren't particular truths that can be really useful. Otherwise, why would I be so locked in on the Swedenborg thing, but the primary thing that makes your your life what it is, is what ultimately like what you love, and then how you try to follow what is good. So Swedenborg came out saying, Oh, no, you don't have to be Christian to go to heaven. And at the time, it's all Sweden was a theocracy. And he actually his works got put on trial for many reasons. That was only one of the shocking things that he he said, But absolutely. You can't you can't believe that if there's a divine force behind it all that only one little sliver of life matters. One little group of people, or one belief is and everything else is nothing. What? why would why would you provide such a limited access to the tools necessary to live a happy life?
Alex Ferrari 9:11
Right, and it's just it even when I was growing up as a Catholic, I was just like, so if you were never if you were born in the Congo, somewhere never heard of Jesus. Never heard of Christianity. And all of a sudden, that person goes to hell, because he never has contact with it. Like it always. Yes. They always kind of free up like even as a kid and like, Hey, that's pretty rough. Like it's just basically potluck.
Curtis Childs 9:35
Oh, my gosh, and you can just if you're sitting here halfway around the world, you can just like, oh, yeah, maybe it is. But if you're just sitting there in front of that little kid who was born in the Congo, and you saw them and they're playing with their little friends and having their little life, there's no way there is no way that if there's a God that is responsible for their existence and mind that God is just gonna dismiss Well, who cares what happened to you? And this is essentially an example that that's who Meanwhile used as well to highlight that it's, it's a ridiculous and and cruel idea to believe that and he said it's a symptom of what he said was the main problem or malady that can afflict religions, which is what he called Faith alone, which is where you have doctrinal ideas, but there's no love that drives them that they're not in the service of love. So you can have very different doctrinal ideas than me, if your ideals are in the service of love and love, it has to be love for the entire human race, it can't just be for you, or your family or your particular group you're in. If you're, if you're using your doctrine ideas, to try to move you toward a life that serves the human race, then basically, we're of the same religion, if you want to call it that, or the same spiritual path because our intent is the same, which is also the divine intent, which is to make it so that every bring as much happiness to everyone as possible,
Alex Ferrari 10:53
Right. And it's just different flavors. It's just, it's just completely different flavors and different spices to the dish,
Curtis Childs 11:00
Do you if you want to get into some afterlife stuff. And we're,
Alex Ferrari 11:05
That's the first thing I want to get out of.
Curtis Childs 11:07
This is this is a great segue into that we were talking about different flavors, because Swedenborg described the different kinds of religions that people have not just as, it's okay, we can make it work, but it's necessary and good, that there are all these different religious traditions. Because each of those traditions, you just think about Islam, Hinduism, Confucianism, the different kinds of people, that those traditions, mold, they end up being different kinds of people. And Swedenborg says, in the afterlife, you need all different kinds of people, because the afterlife works together. So what he called heaven, which is just meaning. The other side, the other side, it is it works the same way that the human body works, okay. So if you look at the way that your body is, it is a total model and picture of intimate cooperation, your heart, your heart needs, your lungs, your lungs, need your heart, neither is anything without the other, ever, even going all the way down to the cellular level, every cell gets everything it needs from the body, and gives everything it can back to the body and both thrive from that. And it has total. So it's just total unity. But it's a unity of incredibly different parts. Think about the difference between your your frontal cortex and your toenail. You can even tell those came from the same thing, but they both need to be there. And so we all become different kinds of people through our different paths of life on Earth. And so some of us are a little more like, like the eyes. Like if you're really into learning and understanding things, maybe you're kind of like fulfilling the function of sight. So you can serve the the the grander human race, and that way, somebody else might be more like the hands and more like a practical, Doer sort of person. But overall, you need to have all these different kinds of people so that we can make this this ultimate sort of ultimate manifestation of the human form, which Swedenborg calls heaven, which is when everyone's working together, just like all the parts of the body work together.
Alex Ferrari 13:10
So beautifully, elegantly put, it really is.
Curtis Childs 13:13
It's cool. And this is why this is why I do YouTube videos, because the ideas, they're very cool in there. But Swedenborg is like what he has a weird sounding name. He came from a long time ago. He's like, the last it's dense, it's philosophical. But I know that there's really cool things in there that are helpful. So we're trying to take the time to like, open it up and add it to people's repertoire.
Alex Ferrari 13:35
Yeah, cuz he's in. It's similar to some of the old yogic texts. I mean, you start going into the old yogic texts in the Hindu tradition, Jesus, man, I mean, you try to get into the Vedics. I mean, just I mean, 1000s and 1000s of scrolls, and really dense, but there's gold in those pieces. So trying to grab little pieces here and there and trying to rework it for a modern conversation is very important is what I do in my show. It's what you do in your show. That's why I wanted to have you on because I think these, you know, that one little bit makes so much sense the human body and it's all about cooperation, and, and it's all about love. And if you've spoken to near death experiences, I've spoken to a ton of near death experiences. The common thread, as there are many with these stories is love. That there is love, unconditional crazy, some some some unspeakable kind of love. Like it's almost a currency up there. They're next on the other side, wherever it is.
Curtis Childs 14:33
Yeah. And if it wasn't that if it wasn't love, I don't think you and I would be doing we're doing great. If it wasn't, I think that if I didn't feel like trying to move in a spiritual direction and educate people to try to move in that way, if it's not leading us toward something where there's more love, where and that love leads to life being better. And what's the point then I don't care about spirituality then if it's just because think It has been moving us towards. I think about just the different kinds of pain I've suffered in my life and the pain I've seen other people go through, unless we're working on fixing that. I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. Like things can change a ton, but not necessarily get better. It's not just if we do any if, if we're all spiritual, but we, he doesn't mean things are gonna get better. I think about pre social media, pre Internet, and it was like, Wow, this amazing technology is coming in now. Anyone in the world, you can see what they're doing. And you can click like it. And now I've got a seven year old daughter, and everybody's like, how do we keep kids away from social media? Because it's destroying their mental health. So it's like, okay, things would have sounded really cool. You can connect with anyone anywhere. But unless there's love in the social media, unless there's love driving it, it doesn't necessarily make anything better.
Alex Ferrari 15:49
So you need to tell me life's not all about likes, or and bigger cars, and more bling?
Curtis Childs 15:55
Please subscribe to my channel, if you're watching, by the way.
Alex Ferrari 15:58
I mean, it's not about I mean, it's, yeah, I would agree with you. Because if it was, if any of the things that I would talk about or had people on the show talking about would be talking about more materialism, I've never heard somebody say, happiness is outside of you. Like, in when you hear that run the opposite direction, because and that's yes, that goes with organized religion sometime, that it's outside of you that we are the ones who can help you guide you through to the afterlife, all of that, or materialism or money or, you know, the flesh, or wood or whatever it is. I if I hear that, it seems right, it just rings and puts flags up so high. It's all but every major spiritual teacher that I've ever heard of, including all the top guys from Jesus, the Buddha, that all of them say the same thing, that the power is within you, and you have to go within the kingdom of heaven is within you, and so on and so forth. And that's what meditation is. And that's what you start going in deeper and deeper. And you start to realize that the happiness is truly you could have a billion dollars, it doesn't matter. If you're not you that hole inside, you can only be filled by something inside you not from something exterior, would you agree,
Curtis Childs 17:20
I think you could probably find billionaires that are unhappy, and people with meager means that are happy. So the key must be somewhere else. I don't think I think it would be unrealistic to say, Money makes no difference, likes making a difference, because they sure can. But it's about what's your priority, that you're saying. If somebody says that the thing, the most important thing, that thing that is is God or that we're looking toward is money, or its likes or it's any other measure of external stuff, then you got those alarm bells going off. But But for example, it's good that your channel has as many subscribers as it does, because it can provide a use, it allows a megaphone for these conversations to happen, that hopefully make people's lives better. And I know just knowing that YouTube channels that I watch, it's such a cool feeling when you've had a hard day and your favorite creator has got a new video, you know, you can just sit there and you're in your happy place and watch it and learn something and kind of return to that sphere. I've had people say with our stuff, they'll put it on when they're going to sleep. Yeah, me too. It's okay. It's sort of at first sounds like hey, man, you're going to sleep but but I only do that you can only do something like that with something that you trust, and you feel safe. And and you know that that the love is going to is going to be guiding it there. So absolutely. There can be a drive to but it can't be to materialism and an end. And it can't be to eminence. In an end those things have to serve usefulness, which is make making a difference that was a big thing Swedenborg was really big about is it's not like you can't say I want to bring my podcast to the next level or I want to take my business to the next level. I want to earn more. But why? Why are Why are you doing that? And if it is because I want to be able to better serve the human race, then, then that's suddenly spiritual.
Alex Ferrari 19:20
Right! It's absolutely and that's the thing. A lot of people think that you have to be, you know, penniless and meditate for 30 years in a Himalayan cave to be spiritual, which I think the way you just stated it and I in a complete agreement with you. The more money you have, the more resources you have, but it's at the end of the day. What is that for? Because at a certain point, man, you know, you and I both been around the block a couple times. I'm a bit older than you but generally speaking you you know you're a parent, so you already definitely got some some shrapnel if you will of life. And at a certain point, the house could only get so much bigger. The car could only get really so much fancier really really close? At a certain point, you're good, like your basic needs are covered. Then when you that's why I see these people with any 10 billion I need 20 bioliquid? Why, like, what is the purpose of it, but if you're using those resources that are being funneled through you, and I do truly believe that it's a responsibility that you have a lot of followers, if you have a lot, if you have a large audience, if you have a lot of money coming through you, how you funnel it, and are responsible for it, to better humanity, to serve others, that is the most important not to build a bigger castle for yourself. You know, at a certain point, the castle is going to be big enough, like you don't need anymore.
Curtis Childs 20:45
Well, it's just like, ah, you know, I built this new wing, but now, I want another wing on my castle, because
Alex Ferrari 20:51
It just keeps it just keeps going and going and going. It is it's an endless endless pit you fall into?
Curtis Childs 20:58
Well, I love what you said about oh, sorry, sorry, go ahead. I just saying I liked what you said about, it's a responsibility. Because if if everybody who is going to try to follow a spiritual path goes off and they're in a cave meditating, and they don't have any money, then who's going to who's going to define the culture, and who's going to shape the conversations, there has to be people, if anyone's watching, and you feel like I shouldn't try to affect the world, you gotta go impact the world. But but doing it, seeing it as a responsibility, sweeten the way Swedenborg describes it as the negative way, the ego way is to say, well, this position I'm in of whatever exists to serve me. So if you think if you're a politician, and you think I want to become the governor, so that I'm the governor, and I live in the governor's mansion, and everyone invites me to these parties, and that's, that's very cool. And I can, you know, call up my friends in high school and say, Look how much better I am than you. Or you can say, well, the governor's office, that is a great responsibility, and the real honor here goes to the office. So I better not screw this up. Because there's a lot of good that can be done, then I feel like that's, that's a great, that's a great the side of ambition that really works for the human race.
Alex Ferrari 22:10
I forgot who said this, but I think it was someone I think it was a yogi, or this is a while ago, they said that they that the yogi's had to get out of the caves, and go into the boardrooms and start running these companies in a spiritual way, because they wield so much power in the world, that if you had a spiritual and you can see it with companies now in the 80s, you never saw that. But you started to see it in the 90s in the early 2000s. And currently that there are companies who are becoming like, well, how can we help? Yes, we need the bottom line. But how can we help humanity. And it's so important that you just don't sit, you know, alone. And it's just you alone doing it? Spiritual Path, and the spiritual growth is a solitary thing. In many ways, it can be a group thing. But at the end of the day, we leave the planet the same way we came into it alone, and they can. But you could do it, you could help others do it around you. But it is something that you really need to kind of go out and into the world and help shape reality helps shape people's ideas. That's why we do what we do every day.
Curtis Childs 23:21
Totally. I love it. Yeah, we can. People can give tools. And I've got I've got to be on the receiving end of so many cool tools. But in the end, that change happens one person at a time. So any organ, religious organization, or anything that's telling you, your spirituality depends on us. That's not true. The only real spiritual force is us looking inside and saying, what what? Do I not want to act on that wells up inside me? What do I want to act on? If I get the impulse to steal that person's cookie? I wouldn't want that to happen to me. So I'm actually not going to do it, even though I want to, if I get the impulse to go and help that person, I'm going to act on it. Because I know I would want that on a basic level that that's the force that changes the world that you'd but it just takes a buy in from a large group of people.
Alex Ferrari 24:06
Without question. So there's, let's get into a little bit into the afterlife, because this is something that my audience loves to talk about. And I think it's a conversation that almost everybody at one point or another is going to have in their life. Like hey, what's what's on that other side? What's when this runs out? What happens? So I know Swedenborg has a real clear idea of what happens immediately after. My question is what is it and how did he come upon this information?
Curtis Childs 24:35
Yeah, I think, as I said before anybody is interested in out of body or near death experiences, spiritual experiences in general, and particularly the way that those and the scientific world intersect. Absolutely should know about Swedenborg because Swedenborg was up until his mid 50s. Just a successful renaissance man polymath A guy so he was in Sweden, which was a world power at the time. And he was doing everything. So he was a the assessor of mines, which was Sweden's mining industry was one of the most important industries on the planet. He was in this position where he was overseeing a lot of the mining there. He was an inventor, he had invented military equipment for the Swedish military, as well as mining equipment, all kinds of things there. But he's also a very well respected scientist and written these huge principios on anatomy, founded the scientific branch of crystallography, first person to suggest the nebular hypothesis. First scientific journal in Sweden, he started that went to he was part of the Swedish government, House of nobility, so on and so on, and so on. Very smart guy, and very well known to the point where as I understand it, if he would show up in London, let's say the newspaper would say Swedenborg came to London. I don't know who is equivalent would be today. I feel like
Alex Ferrari 25:58
The Kardashians, the
Curtis Childs 26:00
He's the Kardashian. Back then. If you think about what would happen today, if Kim had out of body experiences? Well, I think it might be like a Neil Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yeah. Although it back in the day, individuals could do so much more scientifically, because science was a lot less complex. And so he was he was a huge deal. Very well known, I think if Neil deGrasse Tyson tomorrow set, got on Twitter and said, I've been having spiritual experiences. And I now have the ability to have them at will, I'm going to spend the rest of my career cataloging and explaining how the afterlife works. That's what Swedenborg was. So he, he he, the entire thing is documented from the time when he was in his mid 50s, to the end of his life in his 80s. He, in his mid 50s, he was keeping this travel journal, just because he's saying I'm going from London to Amsterdam or something. And it was just keeping track of that back in the day, it was dangerous to do that. You could your boat could sink, there was actually pirates that there's a lot going on. So you want to keep track of your travels and where you're headed. But in that he starts to record his dreams. And he starts to analyze his dreams, which is his back before dream analysis was a thing actually, nowadays, psychology has been very influenced by Swedenborg Carl Jung read a lot of William Swedenborg, William James, a lot of psychology, and particularly sort of mystical psychology has been influenced by him, he started to write down his dreams, and they got visitor and more strange. And eventually, he started to have experiences that were outside of that dream box, like just in hypnogogic state when he was waking up, he would see something or talk to someone. And he writes every one of them down and writes somebody thinks the interpretation is and then at some point, he has a couple of really powerful experiences in visions, which really changed the trajectory of his life. And something seems to have like snapped open. Because from then on out for the last three decades of his life, he was having these experiences at will every day and cataloged the entire thing. So it's between then and the end of his life, he wrote 30 volumes worth of material that he's accustomed to writing big, long scientific work. So his afterlife stuff reads just like that. It's very organized. It's very, it's both descriptive, like he will tell stories, but he's also very philosophical and will tell it's like a physics lesson on how the afterlife works and why people see what they do, when they go where they do. So he published, yet not only like 30 volumes that he published, but he also kept a journal of all the spiritual experiences, you get so much raw data, and then insights from that, that I feel like anybody who's looking to have a complete picture of the afterlife, you know, stitch together what's in between near death experiences, those sorts of things. Swedenborg is definitely worth checking out. He did talk about it again, this is a couple 100 years before Raymond Moody coined the term near death experience in life after life. Which by the way, there was a whole section about Swedenborg in that book, life after life. Yeah, which, which is cool. So right from the beginning, because Raymond Moody was looking to find we've got this modern phenomenon of people having these experiences, this has got to happen have happened in history. Where did this pop up? And there was a couple of chat he had a comparison to the Bible to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. One other one that I can't remember but also Swedenborg because there's so much similarity to the world near death experiences describe. So the the life after death process, actually, our channel is called off the left eye. And that was me, starting out my journey on YouTube thinking how is anyone going to be interested in this stuff at all? I just flipped open went to Sweden works books, and I looked for a cool phrase that didn't have any religious baggage attached to it. And it said off the left eye, is it from the story of him waking up being shown what it's like to wake up in the afterlife. He wasn't his body wasn't in physical danger, like you have with a lot of near death experiences. But he says that he was shown it but kept in a state of consciousness enough that he could recall it and write it afterwards. And he said that and At first, he could feel his body kind of shutting down. And his breathing slowed a lot, but his spirit, he could feel his spirit breathing. And that started to, to rise. And then he said, it felt like there was a poll. And his spirit left his body, and then went through this series of awakening steps in the spiritual world. According to Swedenborg, all of us are in the spiritual world, right? Now you have a body, and then you have consciousness, and your consciousness is your spirit. So that part of you exists in the spiritual dimension, or he called it the spiritual world. So that's the terminology I like to use the spiritual side of life, you're already there, in terms of the spiritual part of you. And he said that your spirit has all the features that your body has. So you have spirit, your spirit has eyes, just like your body has eyes. So to him, initially, he was surrounded by what he calls angels. But I know in Christianity, that word sometimes means these specially created beings that only live in the afterlife. But to him, angels, that just means people who had been living here and who have died and, and crossed over to the other side, that's Angel, who's surrounded by these really loving angels, he called them celestial angels, which those are people who are particularly devoted to love you. And they made sure that when he was experiencing this transition, that nothing, no disturbing thoughts or feelings came into his mind, they were kind of shepherding him, protecting him, and just sitting with him there until he was starting to stir in the Spirit. And then from there, new kinds of angels came up to him, because his mind was starting to stir. And so there's, there's angels that are more mind focused. And so those he said it, he said, it seemed like they pulled a covering off of my left eye. And that's when I received the gift of spiritual sight. Because everything is symbolic. There's so much symbolism in the afterlife. I think that's part of why I know that I know you you started are still in film. And in movies so much. There's like, here's the scene where the hero finally grabs the sword. Sure, it's like it's just, it's meaningful beyond this, oh, now he has a sword. This is like there's meaning in this moment. Swedenborg would call that a correspondence, because to him a sword is a symbol of the truth and the power of the truth. So when we see somebody when King Arthur, or I've just been rereading Lord of the Rings, so I'm thinking about that a lot. Oh, yeah. Like Aragorn has got that sword. And why does it matter so much, because this is a symbol of the kind of power that the truth can have in your life. So the spiritual world is full of that symbolism, that we actually get our appreciation for it by sort of that the Spiritual World seeping in, so they pull the covering off of his left eye. And then from there, it's kind of choose your own adventure. So you get angels are there and they'll show you anything, you want to do anything, but you get to follow your heart then, and you kind of gravitate toward people who love the same kinds of things that you do. So love on the other side plays a role, similar to what gravity plays here. The gravity? Yeah, so So that's a correspondence as well. So in the physical world, why am I in this chair? It's because of gravity. Why? Why is why is the earth around, it's because of gravity. I'm not a physicist, but I think that's the basics of how it is. So gravity is what pulls you to where you are there. Love does the same kind of thing. So people who love and care about the same sorts of things will gravitate toward each other. And this forms spiritual communities. It's the reason why you end up with sort of your, your your soulmates or your people or something because love love there is absolutely a primary force that that shapes everything, because that whole afterlife is spirit based rather than physical based. And Spirit is love and thoughts of the things we experience in our consciousness. So it's like both similar to the world we have here, but yet fundamentally different in the way that it's organized and what it does. So after you wake up, you then are free to go freedom is a hugely important thing. You're free to go and pursue, what kind of things do I want to love? And what and what kind of people do I want to hang out with? And then from there, there's as many different afterlife situations as there are different people. Because everyone is unique. Right?
Alex Ferrari 34:23
Everything's custom made for you kind of like a near death experience. Every near death experience I've heard is custom made even though there are elements that are similar.
Curtis Childs 34:31
Absolutely. And the the spiritual world because it's spirit based. So because it's consciousness based, even your surroundings are a reflection of what's inside you. So the kind of house that you have, you know, people will have dreams and in dreams, they'll be in this house and you'll be like, Well, this was my house, but it wasn't really my house. It didn't look like my house, and almost from what I can find in almost every school of dreams. interpretation, house is a symbol of the mind. And I know if I have dreams where, or like the attic is getting expanded, it just feels like okay, I'm, I'm learning something new, I'm thinking of something. So they're the things that are in use are the kind of things that you love and the things that you think about, that creates the environment so that the home that you're in is a reflection of your mind and heart it would be particularly who you are, that even the landscape and like the flora and fauna, there and will react and match a certain community. So the people that are living there, and this is a lot like in movies as well. Because if you go into let's keep on Lord of the Rings, if you go into Mordor, there's not like bunny rabbits living there and butterflies, because it doesn't fit right. So we just know it would ruin the mood. But spiritually, it would be because the gentle, kinder animals correspond to loving kind affections and scarier, more abrasive animals correspond to harmful ones. So you actually see in the spiritual world, this kind of cinematic life playing out, okay, there's a few things I could go on forever, but I want
Alex Ferrari 36:06
Alright, so Alright, so is this more of his adventures in the afterlife? Or does he have an actual layout of what happens after someone dies?
Curtis Childs 36:15
Yes. So when you die, you start out in what he calls the world of spirits, which he talks about heaven, the world of spirits, and hell, Heaven and Hell are psychological states. This is another way in which he wildly diverges from the traditional Christian understanding yet still uses similar terminology. Heaven is fundamentally a state in which you enjoy doing what is good to other people to heaven is the joy of doing what it's good to other people. Hell is the joy of harming other people. And that might sound strange, because we don't really think of it like that. But really, what why, why do people like why do you flicked that guy off in traffic? Why do you try to get the last word? And why do you try to route what do people conquer each other and try to rule because there's this, Hey, I like to be on top Eagle eagles. So the joy of ego, right? So world of spirits, here, here in this world. You don't know You don't know if a person is wrapped up in the pleasure of helping service or the pleasure of ego. This is why you have to lock your door because you don't know who's gonna come down the street, what they're going to if they're going to think it's alright to steal from you or not. So here, it's all you don't know. But in the spiritual world, the afterlife, things get sorted out. So the world of spirits, he says is this midway between heaven and hell, where you have a chance to really get down to the core of what what you want to do and what you want to love. And then you go and you kind of commit to one or the other? Am I going to be committed to ego? Or am I gonna be committed to love, because those two things need to be separate, because if you're committed to ego, but still have some good love, and you and stuff that's actually going to be painful for you and the other people you're interfacing with. And then if you're committed to what's good, but bring ego along, that's going to be painful. So So you have this chance, and everyone takes a different amount of time. There are some people just know right away, like, No, I'm going to heaven. That's what I want to do. Some people, they have to sort out and find out who they are, but nobody gets forced to go anywhere you got your own love, leads you to go where you want to go. So you get you get into the world of spirits. You spend your time figuring out who you really want to be basically unpacking and uncovering who you've become, throughout this life on earth based on what you loved and what you believe in how you acted on that. And then you go and you find your community is where are the people who who are most living the same kind of life that I am loved and not just live, like we all like to play golf, but like who loves the same kind of thing that you love, and who, who has the same kind of belief about life that you do. And those people like I said, that gravitating force of love pulls you in to this community. And that's where you really get to begin your eternal life or your your meaning your your timeless life in the spiritual world. There's not time and space, the same way that there are here. It's it's sort of seems like it but it's really more about your psychological state. So if you're excited about something you're eager about something that will seem to go faster, but that so you get into these communities and then you start to play your your part in the bigger I talked about the human body. It's like each each little cell is like one of those communities that starts to do do what you do and to Swedenborg the thing that makes human life interesting, as well as the afterlife is the joy of doing something good for the human race. So it's we were talking about you can't just go live in a cave and meditate. get bored of that. You can't just have money. You can just sit there and have a ton The money, you get bored of that the only thing that's like evergreen, in terms of the joy it gives is the joy of doing something meaningful and useful. So like, again, if Yeah, go ahead.
Alex Ferrari 40:10
Well, let me ask you this, though, because one of there's a bunch of stuff I want to unpack there. One. So when you're in the afterlife, and you're finding your, your soul family, if you will, that's a term that's used a lot. The soul family of souls that you spirits or souls that you live with, and not live with, but are like connected to Yeah. What is what is Swedenborg talking say about the concept of reincarnation, and multiple lifetimes, you know, because that's the one thing that always caught me too. In Christianity, it was like, so if I was born this dude, in you know, of a certain color in a certain country, I would have either power, or I would not have power, or I would have this experience or not that experience. And if I was born a woman here, I was like, the only thing that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me that you only had the one shot. This is just my personal opinion. And then when I did reincarnation came, and I was like, Oh, that makes sense to me. What did he say?
Curtis Childs 41:06
Yeah, well, I think that I like the idea of something that makes sense. So if you're saying, hey, this opens it up. So I don't want to argue against that. I will give you a possible alternative to reincarnation that that Swedenborg does back in his day, I don't think that reincarnation was a thing. It wasn't in, in Europe, in in Western Europe. I don't think you had the idea of that. But he does kind of offer a a sort of solution to the idea of why do so many people experienced past lives? What sort of unprompted because to him, okay, so spiritual world has a lot of characteristics to it. And one of them is lack of time and space. One of them is the gravitation of love. But in the other one is the fluidity of mind. So there's a much more effortless transfer of information and feeling there. Here, we can talk, you and I can talk and I can go into his microphone and go all the way through the servers and get there and people can listen, and then try to picture what it is I'm talking about. But there there's a lot of people near death experiences will say I can just tell what he was thinking, I got a download, there's like instant, it's instant, instant, it's permeable. Even Swedenborg says that actually, if you go into a community, in the afterlife, you start to think sort of like they do, you're influenced by their he talks about auras like that, this emanation of your life and mind going out from everyone. So you're able to do that. And you're also able to share feelings. He talks about people who are feeling a certain kind of joy, being able to just really tangibly indirectly pass it to somebody else, and say, Hey, check this out, here's some joy that you can have. So there and not only that, that we we actually while we're on the earth, are constantly surrounded by spirits, because we actually couldn't have consciousness that the link of consciousness goes from the Divine through the Spiritual World, ends up in the physical world. So we're constantly surrounded by spirits, actually, our our spirit, even now is traveling from community to community based on the way we change in our life. It's just a nice, long way to get to the answer I want to give you but I feel like I got to have this background here. When we're the reason why little kids are like they are that why are they so spontaneous and open and joyful and free is a distinctly different phase from what I remember, then what we have now is because when your little Your spirit is around the celestial angels are the deepest angels that Swedenborg talks about. As you grow up, your spirit changes and it starts to go around more spiritual or intellect oriented angels, and you have to have that if you're gonna be able to build a mind and grow. But your The point is that your your spiritual company changes what you experience. And there's enough permeability so much so that Swedenborg just just offhand, in his book Heaven and Hell says that usually when your your mind interacts with spirits, you do so out of your own memory, so that you they they don't bring in what they've experienced from their life into the interaction, you they actually take on some of your memory and from there influence you in certain ways, hopefully to do what's good. Sometimes, though, they're the the equivalent of a leak or something where you can actually experience someone else's memories as your own. So it would be Yeah, so it would be like my wife's friend, one time I was describing to my wife and her friends. You remember when we did this thing? Remember what you were over there? And we went to this and we went to that, and they were all trying to remember what she was talking about. And finally, they were like, oh, no, that was an episode of friends that you're talking about. That was that was that didn't happen. Do you think it happened? So that that can the idea that you can get a feeling that you've been somewhere just even through the crudeness of media, but that there is the possibility for you to experience someone else's memories. And so you feel like I've lived that life? Now, so So Swedenborg, it was like, No, this is, it's like the womb, like you develop in the womb for nine months. And there you set up the bait, you don't set up who you're going to be, but you set up the basics, like the foundation of who you're going to be, and then you're born and you go and live your life. So this life is like the womb to the spiritual world. So you don't define who you're going to be forever. Swedenborg is very clear that you continue to grow and change and do a lot of the stuff that I think we did this whole show called do we reincarnate? Because there's sort of like, a yes and no, and that a lot of the aspects of like, the cyclical development that people talk about in reincarnation, Swedenborg does describe, but he talks about it happening on the other side, he doesn't talk about you changing your entire personality, but at times you forget who you were, and these kinds of things. Well, yeah, so it's an interesting mix. But to him, it was this is this is the the foundation point. That is to say, though, I do anytime someone's saying like, hey, this, I like reincarnation, because it makes me think, yeah, that makes more sense that you'd have a shot at different things. And it brings me more toward love, then I'm like, well, who knows there could be something in it. So I don't feel like I want to say no, there's not reincarnation even though I see a different possible alternative in the way Swedenborg describes it, I think, the idea that we're both looking at, which is like how would you really get it so you can empathize with people, and, and not just, and that everyone gets a fair shake at life. So there's got to be some truth that makes that happen.
Alex Ferrari 46:43
But also, to be now to go on the other side of that, and I agree with I love his point of view on this, that it's kind of like the reincarnation happens on the other side. Right, he also could have been seeing it through the, the the lens of his time. And that that concept that never even been brought up to him. He wouldn't even know what it was in many ways. So the concept of reincarnation is still happening, but on the other side, because that's how he could explain it. So it could, who's to say is the bottom line? Oh, yes, who's to say is, you know, the Vedic text? The right, you know, the right way or, but the concepts are the same, which is very interesting to me. That the idea that there's an evolution of the soul, whether it happens here, or on the other side, According to Swedenborg, is a very interesting idea. Again, different paths to the same top of the mountain.
Curtis Childs 47:43
Yeah. And what's it? What's it for? What's it for, like you were saying? I ran into the idea of reincarnation, and I like it, because it didn't make sense to me how you could just live this one life and you kind of have a silver spoon in your mouth, and then you don't really know. Because Because what's that about? If you drill down, it's about fairness. And is, is is God or is life really fair? So I think ultimately, that that's even kind of the mountain on the mountain that everyone's trying to get to in their different ways?
Alex Ferrari 48:12
Well, I mean, to answer your question, no, Life is not fair. No one in the manual said, I got the manual know if you got it. But there's no. In The Life Manual. No one said life is fair. My kids say that all the time. That's not fair of like, where anywhere? Does it say? Things are supposed to be fair? Yeah, you know, that concept of fairness is irrelevant in the world. Anyone who spent any time down here, it knows that because we've all seen good things happen to bad people all the time, and ourselves as well. You know, things happen to us. And we're like, why did that happen? To me, I'm a good person, I, I do this, I take care of people like why did this happen? Why did it? It's it's not that fairness is irrelevant. In this conversation, it always has been. But if you understand the idea of everything, the idea that I kind of live my life by is everything happens for me, not to me, or through me, not. To me, that changes the perspective of living so much, so rapidly. Because if you believe everything that's a struggle, or something happens to you, is an opportunity for growth. And it could be something as simple as stubbing a toe, or it could be something as losing a loved one. In everything in between. That's a growth experience. And that makes sense to me, because there's nobody walking the earth that doesn't have struggle. That's what this place is built for.
Curtis Childs 49:43
Yes. I think that's very well said. If there was nothing good that could come out of struggle, then wouldn't wouldn't God just want to get rid of struggle? Right entirely. Otherwise, it doesn't seem doesn't seem fair at all. Swedenborg calls it divine power. evidence that the to me through me that you're talking about where he says, and this is something I've really that's really come in handy for me in dark times in my life is that everything, even the things certainly are going to be painful can be painful, and can be demoralizing and confusing, and unfair. And all of their ways. There's nothing at all that's allowed that good will not come out of eventually, or that will not ultimately lead to good. So I've had, I've had difficult things happen to me. But even I can look back in some cases, my initial Depression period that I was talking about. Without that, I don't know if I would have gotten into spirituality. As much as I have. My I did have when I was when I was six, my sister died in a car accident. Oh, I think that I think that was the moment when I was like, well, we gotta fix this life thing. You know, like, this is this is not good enough. This is not okay. Right. So I think that in the picture that Swedenborg paints, when you get to the other side, like there's certain stuff, it's temporary and certain stuff that's eternal. So the pain that I go through is temporary, but the lesson I learned is eternal. What are the growth that I go through, it stays forever. So in the end, let's say somebody has this really difficult childhood, but they grow up to be someone who becomes an advocate for the welfare of children, which is always how it goes, It's always somebody who had something difficult, right? But Bill Wilson and Alcoholics Anonymous, whoever it is, they struggle with it. And then they come out and do this great good the fire they have and the understanding of human beings and how they suffer and how they need to be cared for. And the difference between what's good or not good to be done to a person that stays with you forever. So any anytime I go through something, the way Swedenborg describes it, there's there's a couple of things that might be happening with it. One is I could be learning contrast, if I learned the difference between what is what is good, and what is or what is right and safe and anything that's positive. If I know what isn't, then I'm so much happier in the positive when it comes. It could be for the sake of freeing me from my own ego. If if I had just like set out in my career, for example, and everything I just always gone completely right all the time. I would be absolutely, I'll be so full on myself. I'll be so self centered. And those things you never have to break. But it's been a difficult things in my life that made me say, okay, okay, maybe I don't have to be better than every other person. Maybe we can all just be a big family together. I really think that that's the way the essential way that you grow spiritually. So sometimes hard things allow that to happen. And sometimes Swedenborg talks about how in Providence has this phrase evals have to be seen before they can be removed. So sometimes I have to either personally, I have to, like blow up at someone and to realize I've got a problem. Like I got a problem, and I gotta get at that. But in society, what when, when tragic things happen? Don't we point back and say, well, we're not never, we're never gonna let that happen again, we're going to come together and make sure that that we now we understand this thing that maybe was just tolerated in there. Now we know that's not good. We're not going to let that happen. So I do I love what you're saying about the things almost things happen for a reason. But but that nothing can be going on that good can't come out if I feel like that's one of the most powerful tools you can get.
Alex Ferrari 53:28
I mean, that's so beautifully said as well, because I mean, look, if I wouldn't have almost made a $20 million movie for a mobster when I was in my 20s and was my life threatened for a year and had post traumatic stress disorder for three years after it. And I wouldn't be doing the work that I'm doing now, which started with trying to help people prevent them to go through what I went through in the film industry, which then just spawned into now spirituality. But without that, I'm not who I am without that event. Right? So if you start taking these events out of your life, you'd start devoid of who you were. And you're absolutely right. By the way, when I was young, I was I had a lot of success very early made a lot of money for my age. And I was unjust could not be in the room with me my ego was so out of control. I was an I mean he was think I was still a sweet guy but I was just so it to me, it was just to finally the universe. God whatever you want to call it just Okay, it's time and then the pounding starts little by little until it just starts getting harder and harder to all of a sudden you look around you're like, Am I almost bankrupt? That I had my life threatened for a year like what what's going on? Like I don't even know when to get out of my house anymore like it was it was that but you need those those things, because those were the lessons I needed to learn. Because if not, I would have never been useful part of society useful for myself useful for my family? I wouldn't have a family. an ego like that would not allow to your father. Yeah. Can you imagine? When you were like 20 like to just be like, Oh, I must sacrifice for this thing or this creature that I don't even know.
Curtis Childs 55:22
Yes stop messing with my flow here.
Alex Ferrari 55:24
Yeah, I mean, I mean for the first what is it the first I would say the first month of my of having kids, they destroy you mentally and physically.
Curtis Childs 55:35
Very, it was so scary when it got to be like, six or seven o'clock it started to get dark in the evening. And I remembered like, Oh, we're not going to sleep at all tonight. I forgot what it was like What day was so fun. We're not going to sleep this entire night.
Alex Ferrari 55:49
And you know what the funny thing is, is that I would just look and I was just like a be upset at them. I'm like, You know what, like, I don't even know you. You're just showing my poor wife. I known her for years. I don't know you. They don't give you eye contact. They don't acknowledge your existence, but they just want and want and want. And then the disrespectful, very disrespectful newborn. But, but then the day comes when they connect with your eyes. And they smile at you. And then you're done. And then it's over. And you've now for me, I mean, of course I'd love my children I'd from the moment they were born. But dude, the beating that you get for that first 30 days. But when they finally connected your eyes, I just remember that moment. So clearly, they look at you. They acknowledge your existence. Yeah. And then they smiled. And I'm like, damn it.
Curtis Childs 56:42
All right, you got me. You got I'm in it for life. So thank you for sharing a couple of important moments from your life. And I just see what we were just talking about. So clearly in there. Like if, if your if your babies had not put you through that bootcamp before that would that I contacted meant what it meant? Would you still have the bond that you have right now, right? That's like comparison, like, I know what it's like to be doing all this for somebody that that may be like, he doesn't have the same return. But then I really get how special it is that there's a human in there looking out at me. But also your your story about your early success and your ego. You from how you're talking, you wouldn't want it to still be that guy. Oh would rather be that guy than this, if you just kept succeeding the whole time. So because now you have this depth to you, that you understand, like you've been on the other side of, there's a lot of people who want to have what you had, which is I want to be successful, I want to have fame, but you can come and tell people, here's the reality of it, and the depth that you gained and the understanding of what's right and wrong, that you have that in you forever. Like that's always gonna be a part of your spirit. And it's well worth like, I wouldn't wish that the pain you're talking about in those three years after the guy threatened you and the money going down? Like, I don't think I don't think God or anyone is like, Haha, look what, look what's happened to you. But I just know there's this treasure that comes out on the other side, which is like a human being that understand something about love.
Alex Ferrari 58:01
Right. And I think Jim Carrey is who I want to get on my show one day. I'll call him. I know him. He called Jim. I appreciate that. No, but what he said so he said this statement and it just was so rang. So true. He goes, I wish everyone on the planet could have everything they ever wanted. Because so they would know that it means nothing. Because he's literally a guy who got all his dreams. Yeah, super rich, one of the most famous human beings on the planet, was making people laugh, did what you want it to do, had power have fame had money, had every luxury or have the flesh and have of the money and physical material. And then at a certain point, he said, this, this means nothing. And you could start seeing him switch. And he's like, now he's become who he's become. He's an artist now. And I think he's he's semi retired, if not retired from acting, because he's like, I don't, I'm good. I don't need to keep doing this anymore. That is such an powerful lesson. But I could tell you that and you'd be like, that sounds philosophical. Yeah, he's lived it. And that's the part that we're talking about. You have to go through it yourself.
Curtis Childs 59:19
Right! And think how many kids I remember being whatever like 13 and being all insecure and just thinking yeah, well, if I was just super famous, super rich, super talented at everything that would fix it all. That would fix it all. Like that's the only there's one problem with life. It's not that let me get that. And for for Jim Carrey to have gone through what he went through and to be able to say credibly Think about how many kids he can help now to be like, listen, there. Yes, we have sort of a hole in us that we're trying to fill. But that's not this, this sort of ego dream coming true. Don't feel that it actually literally doesn't fill that hole. Then that points is to what how can it really be full because you want it everybody to be as happy as they think they would be. If they got all their egos, you want everyone to feel full, and you want everyone to feel comforted, and like they're connected, and they're part of something. That's why I'm excited about Swedenborg. And spirituality is because I think it slowly uncovers the reality of a world in which everybody can win together, rather than there's a couple of winners. The truth, the truth sets you free.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:23
And I look at I've had the pleasure of speaking to some Oscar winners and having deeper conversations with them about what had happened after he's like, they'd like said, always, the common thing was like, it's cool for a little bit. At the end of the day, it just turns into something you put on the shelf. Yeah, and, you know, one guy's like, I don't pay for lunches anymore. You know, I haven't paid for lunch at eight years in this in Hollywood, because everybody wants to buy me lunch, because I'm still an Oscar winner. But overall, it doesn't mean a whole lot. It's just, you know, and but the thing is, is so many actors and so many people in, in that industry, that's the pinnacle. And they think that will fill the hole, oh, once I win the Oscar, I'm, I'm good for the rest of my life, or I win the Superbowl. I'm good, right? When the Masters perfect, everything will be perfect. It it's not about the destination, it's always about the journey.
Curtis Childs 1:01:22
And that there's a, that's the, the sort of hollow promise of self centeredness. It's like if I if I am going to focus on myself, and I get myself to the place where myself wants to be. There's nothing actually to that. Whereas Swedenborg what he discovered and saw played out in the spiritual world, it's funny because his books are, yes, they're this travelogue, through heaven, and hell and world spirits and everywhere. But it always comes back down to basic human psychology like that, what we care about that actually, the only thing that is fulfilling is doing things that make everybody happy, make the human race better, that when you think the good of everyone, that's something you can, you could never have achieved enough, you think I did that great thing, made these people happy, I'm gonna get out and do it more that that is what he calls heaven, because that's something that can get bigger and better forever. And the more that you win, that the more the rest of us win, rather than it being a zero sum game. Because the more that you're doing your thing, and helping the world, I get helped by you, the more that I'm helping the world, I help you. And it's this positive feedback loop. And it's actually just like the human body, like we're talking about before the way Heaven is organized, the healthier your spleen is, that's better news for the brain, the healthier the brain is, it's better news for the elbow. It's not like one of them's like, I can't believe that the right foot gets so much attention without either one, you're going to fall down. So that that's anybody like we're talking about before kid in the Congo person born into privilege, everyone's got the human body, they can see right there, that's kind of the map of the destination, you know, right in front of you.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:58
And that's such a powerful idea. Because if you understand that you need to help that kid in the Congo, or that other person on the other side of the world somewhere that's not right in front of you. That's, that's your left foot over there. You know, that is your left foot. And you know, the person up in Sweden is your eye, if you have to put it all together, and you have to help everyone together. Because if you don't all work together, like the body, then the body breaks down, then we all start to break down. And I think that's what I'm hoping that that's where we're starting to go with this awakening that is happening around the world. I think you've probably seen it as well as I have with our numbers and what people are watching and things like that. And you specifically from 2010 to now, you I'm assuming things have gotten better, more people are more interested in these ideas, or just curious about spirituality in deeper questions than they were before and are open for this stuff.
Curtis Childs 1:03:57
I think that I was I was surprised right away at how interested in spirituality people were, how independent they were, that they were there were willing to take that journey. And how many people had had some kind of spiritual experience themselves. But also just how willing people are to work work on the spiritual path. That it's been like a good dream the past 10 years, I didn't ever think this many people would be interested. And it absolutely changes the way I think about humanity. When I think out there, I just think oh, there's so many people who maybe don't hear about on the news, but they're living good lives. They're doing their little good things. And if you knew any one of them you could fall in love with them. I absolutely think that there's way more good out there than we usually see.
Alex Ferrari 1:04:44
Now there's one thing I wanted to talk to you real quick because in your on your YouTube channel at work, you did a video called The reunions, the five types of reunions you get in there. Can you just touch on those because I thought that was fascinating.
Curtis Childs 1:04:56
Getting to see someone who you thought was dead but they're still alive. I have on the other side, China. I know like recently, my grandma died, who was really close to. And when she did, I started to feel like, man. Like, I almost know, more people on that side than here now or there's really starting to be a gravity shift that since I do think our consciousness survives. And I think that those people are still alive there. And I think we get to go see them. I'm starting to get excited. I feel like I can't wait to like, see all these people and see how they're doing and what do they look like now? What are they up to now? So I just think and I've had a concept of the afterlife my whole life, I think somebody who maybe even didn't and thought had just given up hope that they'd ever see their wife again, to get reunited like that. That is the coolest in the world. Swedenborg describes this. He doesn't. He's, as I said, it's very, he is a man of the Enlightenment, very practical minded. So he'll he'll describe it in terms that aren't that sensationalized. So say, people were overjoyed to see their friends again, and their friends overjoyed that they had come back, but you don't get the kind of richness and depth you'll get in some nd e experiences. But he talks about not only people reuniting with each other, but the means to which by which because of the nature of the spiritual world, you can really be made whole and reconnect and, and uncover things that you can't in the way that you're here. The one one particular scenario that he talks about in and we covered in that episode is he talks about a family where there had been two brothers, and one brother had died young, and the other one had not. So by the time the whole family has lived through the parents who have died, the younger brother who was already in heaven, he was there, the the older brother finally dies. And when he gets to the spiritual world, there was a little bit of tension between him and his family, because his older brother had become really kind of a jerk, because he had become self centered. And, and he had always resented the attention his younger brother got, and that it kind of distanced him from his parents. And so it was this whole mess, but because their time and space are not fixed in the same way, you can actually be and this is, I guess, a little reincarnation II, you can be brought back into like younger stages of your life, you can be brought back into a younger state of mind. And so because of that, they were able to do this almost like processing session where the the, the abrasive older son was brought back into being like 10 or 11 years old. And he was able to just like, say, like, what he felt like, wasn't fair, and it softened his parents hearts. And they really made this breakthrough in his his brother who had died and had been at what we would call an angel the whole time was just so loving and accepting. And like I, you know, all I want is for you to have all the happiness I have. And the older brother just broke down was crying. And it was this power of this stuff that had been hardened and calcified in life, and people didn't get along, it just melted away. Because in the spiritual world, you couldn't really get to what's important. So this is touching scene of like the possibility of human reconnection.
Alex Ferrari 1:07:53
That's beautiful. And that there's another thing that you talked about on your channel, which I think my audience was really interested in is what happened immediately after Jesus Christ passed.
Curtis Childs 1:08:04
Yes. So Swedenborg is, is fascinating in that there was a guy named DT Suzuki, who was by a lot of people credited with bringing Zen Buddhism into the West, he was one of the earliest I think it was in the 20s. He was one of the early guys in that, but he wrote this book about Swedenborg, which was called Buddha of the North, because he felt like Swedenborg Gers material was, was so compatible, too similar to compatible with and similar to Buddhism, that that he would say, Look, this is this is like Buddhism, from from the North. That's so even though Swedenborg resonates with a lot different things he is uses a lot of Christian terminology and things that Christians thinks are important, like the Bible, and particularly Jesus Christ, he thought were totally important. So he talks about Jesus is like, there's the unknowable divine, that's infinite, and you can't comprehend it. And Jesus is that divine saying, Hey, I'm gonna get into a form that you can give a hug to, and you can understand and so, so damn, Jesus was absolutely important, not in the same way where you have to, there's a lot of Christians that say, you have to know the name of Jesus Christ, and say it or else you get in trouble. But to him, Jesus Christ is love personified. So anybody who's living this life of love really sort of knows Jesus, you could say it because you know, the character. But so, so the advent of Jesus Christ, though, on the earth was really important, spiritually. It was essentially God, writing this balance that had gotten out of whack in the world that so many people were choosing the ego and violence and it was just like destroying the whole spiritual environment and making it so people were really at risk of just the human mind being destroyed, basically. And so Jesus Christ was this amazing phenomena where he came back into clear that up, teach people Love was but even though you'd see some stories in the gospels, there was this huge spiritual meaning to everything that he was doing. So after Jesus Christ got crucified, it wasn't, According to Swedenborg, it wasn't like you get in, I guess, Catholic. I'm not sure in other doctrines where there's a Father God was angry at the human race. And so Jesus Christ is a sacrifice that appeases the anger of Father God, which I have some issues with. Yeah.
Alex Ferrari 1:10:26
It's a couple, there's a couple holes in that plot.
Curtis Childs 1:10:28
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm not sure about the motivation, not believable character. So but
Alex Ferrari 1:10:33
Yeah, but just in general, that God's angry alone is a problem.
Curtis Childs 1:10:38
One of the first one of the first videos that I made is called Why God can't get angry. And it just was just a simple thought experiment. That was we were just talking about babies earlier. And you think about the you getting angry, grows proportionately more ridiculous and humiliating, the less powerful that person is compared to you. So if like, you and I are about peers, and we bump into each other's cars, and we're mad at each other, it's still like, you don't want to blow up like that. But it's not the same as if there's a little kid or even a baby. And you're like, I hate your little baby. Because the baby has no power doesn't know what it's doing. You're so much more cognitively adapted. So that for God, let's take that and crank it up to infinity for God, to get angry at me at Curtis, who like barely know, like, I like oh, where's where's my keys? I can't find my key like, I don't know anything compared to God, and he's
Alex Ferrari 1:11:35
You're gonna need you're an amoeba, your
Curtis Childs 1:11:39
Best case scenario, and for God to get mad at me, like you've really triggered me there. I'm mad at you,
Alex Ferrari 1:11:45
That stuff gets triggered. That's amazing. All right. So you were saying, let's go back to Jesus Christ.
Curtis Childs 1:11:51
I'm just saying Swedenborg has a line in his book, true Christianity, where he says it's impossible for God to even look at us with a frown. Right? Because to do that would be against his essence. Okay, so. So Jesus is, that's not the truth. There's not to appease the anger of God, Jesus Christ is there to save us from ourselves. Because we are just unmask choosing the things that are destructive, so that it wasn't just you can't just take the physical world in isolation, because there's people in the spiritual world and people in the physical world. So not only was everyone the physical world is like downstream from the spiritual world. So the one of the reasons why everyone here was getting so callous, and cruel, is because that's the way it was going in the spiritual world. So many people were there, were choosing the same kind of thing. So Jesus was having to go in and set everything in order, and get it in. Because, again, even the worst person who's doing the worst things to people, still, God is not mad at them. God does not feel like I hate you, and you're my enemy. But he is going to say I have to, you have to go over here. Because if if you're here, you're you're you're harming other people, and that's harming you like that is getting you more entrenched in the evils that you've decided to grab onto. So we had to take like this master kind of sorting, to take these people put them put everything in order so that people can't harm each other, and that there's freedom restored. So people can choose spiritually, there's this whole complex process that Swedenborg describes over many, many books of what was going on there. But essentially, it was to create balance, again, so that we would have the freedom to choose what we want to do, and what we want to love and who we want to be. Because that's essential. You can never choose anything good if you don't have a free choice, because you think about if anyone says, Hey, let's love me or else, there's no love there, like it has to be freely chosen. If you say to your kids, like you have to visit me, it's not you know, it doesn't work. So the nature of love is that it can only happen when both parties are free to accept it. So people have to have the choice to love what's good or not. And that was that was going to go away if Jesus didn't make a move right then so it was kind of like the last last ditch effort, but it really worked.
Alex Ferrari 1:14:09
My friend, I could talk to you for another two, three hours. question that I'm gonna ask you a few questions. So I'm gonna guess. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Curtis Childs 1:14:20
Being useful, being useful and really organizing your life around? How can I be useful? And I would say I've watched in myself, that desire might sort of ego turn into slowly turning into a desire for usefulness. I can see it when things are starting the good that I do starting to matter more than how I come off. Even before this interview. I was like, Well, I was feeling like I hope I don't screw this up. I sound like I know what I'm talking about. But what I'll say now is like okay, well, I hope some good comes out of this. And I'll say like a little prayer, and I'll say like, just like help free me from my concern for the ego so that I can just get in there and I know somebody's gonna be watching this and get something positive out of it, let me think about them. So I feel like I can see myself and then the more I can move my life to support that, I started to like, go running and those kinds of things so that I can have a clearer mind so that I can do this better. The more I put the different parts of my life around usefulness that's fulfilling, I think, to have people to which you want to pursue their happiness. So I think about, we're talking about building up houses and trying to get them better. I do that now. But like, what's exciting to me a lot of the time is like, I know, my wife would love that. Like, if we were if we could have that my wife would think that was really cool. So to be able to do things for people. Yeah, that that plus usefulness, and then not, but not trying to go too hard core on the spirituality, don't think I'm going to be spiritual every single minute. And I'm only gonna be reading Vedic texts in a cave, my home because I like man, I gotta play in new Zelda game came out, I gotta be playing that, you know, I gotta be go go do some rock climbing. Like, there's other stuff I need to be doing. Because I'm a spiritual and a physical being at the same time. So I got to take care of that physical side, I just can't let it lead things.
Alex Ferrari 1:16:11
What advice would you give your younger self, if you can go back in time?
Curtis Childs 1:16:15
Relax. And don't don't try to hang on to stuff so much. I used to think I could just like ring any, like, if I'm thinking this, I'll change this. And we'll do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. And don't worry about don't worry about all that stuff. Just just trust the process. I say trust the process. You're fine. Where I am now is good. And I didn't get here. Because I engineered it or something. It just trust the process. You'll be okay.
Alex Ferrari 1:16:39
How do you define God?
Curtis Childs 1:16:41
God, so God is love. And love is love is human. So the everything that I strived to try to become is to try to imitate and emulate that humanity. And the thing that I recognize and other people that I love that that is all kind of a reflection of this, this, God who is is a person is somebody that that I can love. Like, I love other people, and I don't know, I don't have the clearest picture of everything that he's like, but sometimes I get this sense of like, okay, there's my hero, like, that's my hero, and I'm gonna try to like, do what would make him proud. And I really believe he's trying to make the world better. So it's kind of like this, this thing I can be inspired to follow and know that ultimately, eventually, I'm going to be living very intimately with God in whatever way that is. But it's sort of looking forward to that that time.
Alex Ferrari 1:17:35
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Curtis Childs 1:17:37
The ultimate purpose to life is to create a world in which everybody is cared for in every way they need to be cared for, and to take joy. In doing that we would all be in this state where it's like, no, we're not happy unless every kid has got a table of friends to sit with. Everybody's got their health and just the effort toward that the constant effort toward that. That is, I can't think of anything better.
Alex Ferrari 1:18:07
And where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing in the world, sir?
Curtis Childs 1:18:11
youtube.com/offthelefteye, you search Swedenborg on YouTube, you'll get there too. That's a great place to start. We got a ton of videos with this. And if you just leave a comment, or anything like that, we can direct you anywhere you need to go.
Alex Ferrari 1:18:22
And do you have any final words for our audience, sir?
Curtis Childs 1:18:24
Well, I want to say thanks to you for for not only having me on, but for for pursuing what you're pursuing. And I've from the conversations I've seen you having, I feel like you've got a good heart and you're like setting a good example to people, that people just watching. Everything is going to be okay. I mean, that's what I found out in my life, and the work that you're doing to pursue spirituality, which is why you're watching this channel. It's that it means a lot. It's not going to waste. There's been times when I felt like God doesn't even matter, but it totally matters. Keep going, not just me, but even even there's like angels on the other side cheering for you like you got this. You can do it. Keep going. So I would say keep going.
Alex Ferrari 1:19:03
Curtis, I appreciate you for being on the show and this great conversation and for the amazing work you're doing in the world, my friend. Keep it up and I appreciate you man.
Curtis Childs 1:19:11
Thanks for having me. That was so fun.
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