The Universe ISN’T REAL! Quantum Physics Reveals CRACKS in Our “Game” Reality with Christian Thagard

In the grand theater of existence, where we often ponder the mysteries of reality, Christian Thagard invites us to consider the intriguing possibility that our world is a finely crafted simulation. Christian’s journey began over three decades ago, diving deep into the realms of consciousness and the nature of reality, culminating in his profound insights into what he calls the “Earth Game.”

Raised within the boundaries of traditional beliefs, Christian’s awakening was akin to taking the red pill in The Matrix. The movie, a cultural touchstone, deeply resonated with him, though he sees our reality as a far more benevolent and enriching game than the dystopian world portrayed in the film. He posits that this life is designed as an adventure, a playground created for growth, exploration, and joy.

Christian’s exploration led him to the concept of simulation theory, which he discusses in his book “Earth Game: The Evolution of Consciousness”. He draws parallels between our existence and video games, where each challenge and obstacle serves as a lesson, pushing us to evolve. “When you tap into your higher self, you’ve got the equivalent of the Internet there, where everything is connected to everything else,” he explains. This interconnectedness allows for a richer, more profound understanding of our purpose and experiences.

Free will, Christian asserts, is the primary rule of this game. It allows us to make choices and learn from them, even when those choices lead to difficult or painful experiences. “The universe weaves it all together, matching your quantum signal with the experiences you need to grow,” he says. This perspective helps frame life’s challenges not as random suffering but as integral parts of our spiritual evolution.

The notion of time in this simulation is another fascinating aspect. While our brains perceive time linearly, quantum physics suggests a more complex reality. Christian believes that time, as we experience it, is a product of our limited physical perception. In the quantum realm, all possibilities exist simultaneously, and our consciousness navigates this sea of potentialities, creating our linear experience of time.

Near-death experiences (NDEs), according to Christian, are another layer of this intricate game. He likens them to a “lobby” or passageway, where individuals are given a glimpse of the higher reality before deciding whether to return to their earthly lives. These experiences often leave individuals with a renewed sense of purpose and a deeper understanding of their connection to the divine.

Channeling and connecting with higher entities, be it spirit guides, ascended masters, or extraterrestrial beings, are also part of this simulation. Christian describes it as telepathic communication, accessible to anyone willing to reach beyond the physical realm. “Once you step outside Plato’s cave, you realize that everything is connected,” he notes, emphasizing the limitless potential for spiritual exploration.


  1. Interconnectedness: Our thoughts and intentions shape our reality, reflecting the profound interconnectedness of all things.
  2. Purposeful Challenges: Life’s obstacles and challenges are opportunities for growth and evolution, integral to our spiritual journey.
  3. Joyful Exploration: Embrace life as an adventure, finding joy and wonder in the journey and the lessons it offers.

In this enlightening conversation, Christian Thagard invites us to view our lives through the lens of a grand, playful simulation designed for our growth and enjoyment. His insights challenge us to embrace our experiences with curiosity and gratitude, recognizing the divine purpose in every moment.

Please enjoy my conversation with Christian Thagard.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 295

Christian Thagard 0:00
When you tap into your higher self, you've got the equivalent of the Internet there, where everything is connected to everything else. And a little imagination and off you go. And it's a ride. It's a rush. And they know what's real. You know, I know what's what's real, is well, I know what's real, because I know it's real. But we don't always know it's real. In meditation whenever ton of takes off for me, it goes somewhere. And I'm on a different level. My dog always meditates right next to me cuddles up next to me, she jumps up and looks my eyes because she knows he's probably looked at my face when we should reach really learn to lick the eyes, because there's probably some tears of joy coming when I'm hitting that good stuff. So she knows even my dog is tapped into the quantum reality.

Alex Ferrari 0:44
I like to welcome the show Christian Thagard. How you doing Christian?

Christian Thagard 0:57
Great, Alex, great to be on your show.

Alex Ferrari 0:59
Thank you so much for coming on the show my friend. I really appreciate you reaching out because I wanted to talk to you about your new book, Earth Game: The evolution of consciousness and basically talking about simulation theory, the nature of reality, why are we here? You know, just simple questions that have easy answers, essentially. But everybody who knows or watches the show knows that I love this, these deep conversations, and these are definitely rabbit holes that are prepared to go down are you sir?

Christian Thagard 1:29
Oh, absolutely. I will have been going down these rabbit holes for 36 years now.

Alex Ferrari 1:35
Wow. Before it was in vogue, before it was in vogue.

Christian Thagard 1:38
Oh, it was strange. Having my my red pill moment back in 1986. There weren't a lot of people you are going to talk to about it.

Alex Ferrari 1:48
Oh, God, you man. I can't even imagine in 86 talking about this kind of stuff. Well, I have to ask you, before we even get started, what happened in 1999? When you walked into a movie theater, and saw the matrix?

Christian Thagard 2:01
I wasn't quite in that space at the time. But I gotta tell you, that's my favorite movie of all time. Right? Even though the reality of the matrix we're in is kind of the opposite. The movie The Matrix, it was great. It was it was aI machines enslave humans do it here. Totally different story which we can talk about it this is a way better game.

Alex Ferrari 2:27
Oh, this is a much better game. But the concept of the simulation was thrown into the zeitgeist by that movie in a huge way that these conversations, people can kind of grasp and wrap their heads around. It could just be like, it's the matrix, but it's different. So I always I love using the matrix as a as an example. And it's one of my top right top to that in Shawshank. I do love sure I do love Shawshank. So my first question is, what evidence or arguments suggest that our reality could even possibly be a simulation?

Christian Thagard 3:01
Well, there's something and and again, this is my my 35 year 36 year trip down the rabbit hole is you start out with what is this? Well, I, I after my sort of wake up call, I had to find out what was that. And so I did a deep dive into everything under the sun. And I didn't arrive at simulation theory until about about 10 years ago. But it's interesting when you do the dive, and you start pulling in everything from every direction, and you start to see how oh my goodness, it's all one mountain being described from a bunch of different perspectives. And you start to see the common themes, or like the the perennial philosophy, oh, the oneness. And you see the Maya the illusion, whoa, this isn't quite what it seems. And then I read about 20 books on quantum physics and, and it's sort of like, well, there's certainly isn't what it seems. And then you dig back on that and you go all the way back to that to the founders of quantum physics, like Max Planck, there's no matter as such, or I regard matter as derivative from consciousness, what this thing isn't even isn't even real. So as it starts to come together, it's alright, what is it? And one of the key questions that I find you got to ask is, okay, is this random? Or is it designed to blame me it's designed, I don't even have to go through those arguments, just everything from the precision of the Big Bang, to the precision of everything on Earth, cosmological constants. He has is, this was designed impeccably, so to what end, and by whom. So probably only about a dozen years ago, or 10 years ago, I read it. Tom Campbell, who's been on the wonderful show, read his his trilogy, might be told where he really dived into it. And I'm not a scientist that Tom Campbell is, but I thought, Well, that's it it, this was created as a place to play. And, and we're the creators, and we're playing in our own creation. And, and everything starts to fit together. Along that that path.

Alex Ferrari 5:15
It's really interesting though, because I was using the concept of a video game, I use that analogy constantly to what we do here, as avatars as players is, yeah, the soul as the player itself, and you go down a hall, and you make a left turn in a monster each you, you have another life, you come back you like he turned down. But now you know that, that monsters around the corner. So you have to figure out the ways out to beat the monster or to avoid the monster so you can get to the farther down the level of the game, and so on and so forth. And that always made a lot of sense to me. But so this idea of a simulation, which is essentially a game, like your book calls it earth game. If this is a game, what are the rules?

Christian Thagard 6:01
Well, before the rules, there's talking about the purpose, why the game? Now I've heard you talk with with some guests about, well, you know, God, and I guess we'll use God because we don't have a better word. Even source with the universe shirt, we have to try to not picture an old guy with a beard. That's like trying to don't picture an elephant Alex, but but, but we'll use it just because it's it's it's easiest shorthand. The notion that God was somehow or the creator was somehow incomplete and had to fix or repair or needed some way to see itself. Well, maybe why not create a playground to play? It's like, think of our movies, where everything is a journey out. There's some conflict, there's some challenge. And then there's a journey home the involution the evolution? And is it like a video game? I just posted on my on my website, an article that just wrote about that. Of the parallels? Yeah, it is, in the sense that if you're playing a video game, there's a you outside the game, who's more real than the you inside the game? Well, there's a you outside this earth game that's more real than the you and me, that are that are inside this game. We compress it down to a lower number of dimensions. And we drop ourselves in. And we do it with amnesia, and with a an illusion of separation, so that God can really have some fun with it. With some challenge, we'll drop it into density, we'll let free we'll run a bit amok, and then we'll find our way home. You gotta leave home to have an adventure. I mean, if Frodo doesn't leave the Shire, no movie.

Alex Ferrari 7:52
Right! If Luke doesn't leave that to when there's no Star Wars. Without question, when you were saying that an idea popped into my head, which is really interesting, because a lot of a lot of people might argue like, oh, you know, we're playing a game and why would God have to create this place to play for? For souls, it doesn't make sense. But then I was like, wait a minute, as a director of a film. That's exactly what we do. As a filmmaker, you create an environment where you invite hundreds sometimes of people to play in different aspects of the creation and the play process. Actors, technicians, storytellers, producers, if there's so many different players, playing a make believe game, and where it's literally fun for actors to play, and directors to play and right, everyone has their fun, but it is a created simulation. That's what movies are. That's what television is. It's a creative simulation that people create from scratch, to go and play and experience and tell stories and maybe if at a higher level, pass along some wisdom, or just purely entertain for entertainment sake. Does that make sense to you?

Christian Thagard 9:12
Yeah. And I'm perhaps the only one I've come across. A lot of people talked about simulation theory. But the notion that this whole reality is, is a game it's play at it, this is God's play. This is this is this is this is exciting. This is an adventure. This is God's adventure. And we don't often look at it like that. We think, oh, geez, we run around and try to fix ourselves or make up for this or worse yet run around trying to fix other people. Well, why don't we live the adventure? Because the stuff the growth stuff, it'll find you it'll find it you'll, you'll stub your toe and that there's no problem. So I encourage you to think about it as Dean Parker. Enjoy this thing. Died into physicality. I mean, in so many spiritual pursuits, we got to transcend the physical we got to get out of the physical Well, maybe not. Why don't we do only enjoy the physical. Now you got to reach beyond you got to reach up above the physical, which is what quantum physics keep pointing, oh, excuse me look up and says, or there's something up here. But just enjoy the ride. This isn't this is a fabulous gameboard that we got here.

Alex Ferrari 10:19
And the game as far as the rules are concerned, you know, what are the rules of this magical game that we're playing?

Christian Thagard 10:29
Rule one, as we all know is is freewill Prime Directive. Now, there's all kind of decent one out there. But everybody's got to kind of leave us alone right now. Because we're at this really exciting part of our adventure, you've talked about this, where we're kind of making a bit of a turn, shifting out of a particular density, some have called it fourth density or third density makes sense to me up into the early stages of fourth density. And we're starting to to reach beyond the physical and into touching into, into multi dimensional, this is an exciting time here.

Alex Ferrari 11:05
So the first rule is free will. So let me ask you this. And this is something that I hear up all the time, because some people get very angry with this conversation because of, well, if it's a game, then what about all the bad things that people can do? And how much all the negative? Were the morals behind all of this? And you know, all the negative and horrible things that happen in the world? How can this be part of a game? How would you how would you kind of talk about that

Christian Thagard 11:30
Oh, sure, that's easy enough to explain, you just start with freewill as rule one density that where where you gotta leave home, okay, you gotta leave home, you got to find your conflict that that's in the, you got to find your your, your your challenge. story in the illusion of separation, we don't realize where we're connected, that we're all of the one, some furs gonna fly, there'll be some bad choices. And, and it gets a little crazy out here. And all that's coming to the surface right now, because I think some of it is let go. But to cut to let go, it's got to come to the surface.

Alex Ferrari 12:10
That's a great explanation. And as you were saying that there was a movie that popped into my head, which kind of illustrates what we're talking about, which is it's a it's a it's a cartoon from Disney called Wreckit. Ralph, I'm not sure if you've ever. Yeah, WreckIt Ralph, which is about a video game, bad guy who just wakes up in the morning and goes out and you know, crushes the building. And he just does the same thing every day. But then he starts getting like, this is like, I don't want to be the bad guy. And then he has to leave. And there's like a support group with all the other bad guys from other videotapes. And he actually escaped the video game. And it goes out. Is that something that's kind of what's happening to us now in a different way?

Christian Thagard 12:52
Well, back to the sort of the racket thing, I think what happens is most people don't realize how this thing works, how it works, it works. The fundamental thing of a technology is your thoughts, your thoughts, you're popping down from the quantum or, or popping down from the quantum being stirred and mixed and basically precipitating at a at a signal or an energetic or vibrational level into creating the reality that is showing up. We think it's all mechanical, physical. And so we run around, trying to move things around trying to work incredibly hard, trying to bully other people into or talk them into behaving the way we think they should. That technology, it doesn't really work. So we're, we're just figuring it out, you're starting to figure it out. And I think your life tracks up a notch or two, when you focus on I call it called in a recent article, your quantum signal that you're sending out from moment to moment. In everything you do, is going to generate the quality of your reality. And look at most people, how often are the people spend in a state of being triggered by this or that or the other thing? Or afraid or angry? Well, why are you going to generate? Plus there's a couple other reasons too. There's a lot allsorts. Probably most of your listeners, okay. But there's also some baby sauce. I think the first time you ever play a really hard video game, you're gonna blow yourself up pretty quick. Okay. So there's some baby souls out there. And it's going to be more of a challenge to get it next time, but the time after, from the other side of the veil, this a lifetime is a blink feels to us like it's forever. But there's a perspective here

Alex Ferrari 14:30
With the analogy of the video game, I mean, it just continuously makes more and more. I mean, the video game itself is a it is in the analogy for life. When we created video games and simulations to go into, it's basically creating this concept that we're talking about. And like you said, it's a blink. When you play a video game, old school video games, you had two three lot you have three lives. And that was it. Then Then eventually you got oh you die. You came back and you just kept going in a game like Zelda or old school Zelda or something like that where you would continuously go, he was.

Christian Thagard 15:08
You've talked about why would people create basically a horror story lifetimes? I can't really I don't make light of it. People have a really difficult time. Absolutely. But think about it. We go to horror movies. We go on roller coasters to deliberately scare the heck out of ourselves. People love horror movies is extremely popular genre. Why? Because we know that the realize is out is not on the screen. But we'll walk out of that theater safe and sound. It really won't be there all that long, we'll get a bit of an adrenaline rush. And that's okay, we can rollercoasters, scare the heck out of ourselves. And then we come back and we pay money to do it. So the fact that people set up pretty challenging lives, or make bad choices and have tough lives. We can be compassionate, I need to be compassionate about that. But it's not that shocking. From my perspective.

Alex Ferrari 16:02
Yeah, and again, without those challenges in life, I mean, everybody, there's not one human being on the planet that doesn't go through some sort of struggle, in one way, shape, or form. It doesn't matter what it is internal, external. There's always something no one comes in, is completely, just golden. Everything just works perfectly all the time. It's a boring game.

Christian Thagard 16:27
What are some things, there are some things in the debt that we all go through? I mean, who didn't experience COVID in one way or another? We're all experiencing, we're all witnessing this this war going on. And yet we experience things differently. And I think what you can wear you wear this technology or this approach comes really comes in effect it is you start getting better luck. No, just traffic part for me, too. I always get the weather I want. No, of course not. And that's the despite meditating every day for 30 some years. But you know what? You can better luck. And when the bumps come along, you can go Oh, plot twist. And you realize, okay, universe, God teach me something, I guess I should be in learning mode in student mode,

Alex Ferrari 17:15
You know, and that's a really great way to look at life. And that's something I've done in my own life is when now anything negative or challenging happens, I stopped for a second and don't go into victim mode. I automatically go oh, is this happening for a reason? What am I supposed to learn out of this? And how can I overcome this quickly, and, and efficiently?

Christian Thagard 17:35
The expression is not original to me, but I like, this isn't happening to me, it's opening form for me, no, I gotta solve the mystery of, I gotta go through it. At the end of it, I'll understand. And I'll go, oh, that's what I need. And that's part of the game. Right?

Alex Ferrari 17:53
Well, and also, you know, if you look at this with this idea of the game, for my generation of gamers, I don't game anymore. But when I was growing up, there was a game called contra back in the 80s, and 90s, for Nintendo and Nintendo first came out, and there was a little very famous code that you can type in, and then you would be invincible, you would have all the weapons all the time, you pretty much cannot be touched. And I would go through that game, you could just slice through this, the game, just slice through it like nothing, every boss would just fall easily everything. After doing that 100 times in my day, I would literally challenge myself, I'm like, let me go back in and see if I could beat this entire game now with one man and one gun. And like, I would just go back.

Christian Thagard 18:41
Again, if Earth game wasn't, wasn't meant to be easy, it was meant to be challenging. It was meant to be fun, to kind of an escape room and a little bit of a sense of the other, we all escaped life. But but you're You're escaping from the constraints, you actually find your way outside Plato's cave into the light

Alex Ferrari 18:58
very, very much. So now, if this if this is possible to perceive, or is it possible to perceive or interact with the Creator, or beyond the simulation in this life? In other words, can the game can Mario talk to the player or even step out of the game? Or even have glimpses of outside of the game?

Christian Thagard 19:22
Oh, absolutely. And you anybody can do it and you do it every day. Now, some people can do it through psychedelics and do ayahuasca and throw up and low and stuff like that, but you don't even need to do that. Meditation The whole point of meditation opens the doors and off you go you're you're you're no longer trapped in three dimensions of space and one at a time. And you're exploring wherever and and and you whatever you can do with psychedelics you can do which is playing around with the with the pineal, which is a gateway, you can actually interact directly with like think I do the you on the other side who's playing the game, you're the avatar within the game, your state drops some of themselves, but not all of themselves in squished into a human suit to play the game here. You can talk to them and anybody else you want. Because once you step outside of this area of this realm of illusion of separation, you do when you tap into your higher self, you've got the equivalent of the Internet there, where everything is connected to everything else, and a little imagination and off you go. And it's a ride, it's a rush. And they know what's real. You know, I know what it's real, is, well, I know it's real, because I know it's real. But one of the ways they know it's real. In meditation whenever kind of takes off for me and go somewhere and I'm, and I'm on a different level. My dog always meditates right next to me cuddles up next to me, she jumps up or looks my eyes because she knows he's probably looking at my face when we should reach really learn to lick the eyes, because there's probably some tears of joy coming when I'm hitting that good stuff. So she knows even my dog is tapped into the quantum reality.

Alex Ferrari 21:06
It's, it's very true. I mean, there's I got to a place now that it's happening, almost every meditation where I go off and and it's just this beautiful, blissful feeling. And sometimes you connect to things and ideas will flow and information will flow. And it's almost a controlled lucid dreaming, in many ways. Because when you're dreaming is your cap don't control if you lucid dream, you have a little bit more controls. But dreaming is also another way to escape this three dimensional place in a sense, right?

Christian Thagard 21:39
Ah, I've read about dreaming. I can't say I fully understand it. It's a lot of it is I think what your brain does when your consciousness checks out, which is another reason about what did another demonstration when your consciousness and your brain aren't the same. It basically does does therapy and sometimes you get some interesting messages in

Alex Ferrari 21:57
It's a it's a I think it's a parting of the veil, just slightly injury but but a meditation is much deeper enough, especially when you start going really deep. You can you're in another world very

Christian Thagard 22:13
Often, either. This was a kind of a fun one to know if you've done this one as often when I wake up, I have music playing in my head. And I Okay, I got to tune I am big music fan. So it's sort of okay, I got the melody. What are the words, and the words are my message for the day. And sometimes I'll take that message into the meditation, and the meditation is waiting for me. I barely get counted down and boom, they're talking. You know, it's it's, it's fun. I mean, anybody doesn't meditate, man. Do it. Do it, do it. It's just a rush.

Alex Ferrari 22:44
Yeah, it's free. And you can do it almost anywhere. Except when you except when you're driving. Now, with this idea of the simulation in the game, what how can you explain the concept of time in this reality? And what is the purpose? If it is a simulation, how time works within it?

Christian Thagard 23:06
Actually, that's that's actually the next rabbit hole on my list to dive down. Because time to me looks like a straight line because it looks linear and our brains are linear. And yeah, when you think about looking at globe behind you, everything rotates the Milky Way galaxies, a spiral, our Sun goes around the Milky Way. The Earth goes around the sun, the Earth rotates, the seasons, astrological cycles, everything is circles. And yet we see straight lines. Well, I'm gonna see those those those circles someday, Alex, I don't know how quick but I gotta explore that. And I think the only reason we see it as a straight line as I think the program itself is, is circles and spirals, okay? We go through them in a linear way. Because our physical brains are wired to be linear, they're wired to be fooled. They're wired to be caught up in the Maya in the illusion in the in the simulation. So you got to you got to access more than your physical brain to, to move beyond linear time and to have all these other adventures. And we're we're starting to do this. That's what this next level stuffs about. Right? Yeah. And there's there's no question but outside the box.

Alex Ferrari 24:22
Oh, there's no question. And as, as the numbers of my show, can show can can testify to people are interested. There's a lot interested in this in these ideas and are looking and searching for these conversations because they are starting to go wait a minute. This doesn't make sense. And then you're like, Well, what can I find information? There's not a lot of it out there just yet. There is but you got to hunt for it. It's a little bit different. One thing about time that I always find interesting is time is a perception as well, because as you and I are speaking right now You're in a different part of the world than I am, we're not next to each other. Your time is different than my time, sometimes literally in time zones, I could be talking to somebody in Australia, who's 12 hours ahead of me, their time is different, and their perception of reality is different. But it's all happening on this planet at the exact same moment, wrap your head around that is if you people wrap their head around that like wait a minute. It's not time is based on the perception of the perceiver. But there's billions of perceivers around the world. And that's just humans. Let's not even get into animals, plants, and other life forms that flew insects and other people, other things that fly around this planet.

Christian Thagard 25:46
Or if you travel fast enough, time slows down.

Alex Ferrari 25:51
Right! That's a whole bunch of

Christian Thagard 25:53
Photons that always traveled at the speed of light in a vacuum. Never experienced time, because they're always traveling at the speed of light.

Alex Ferrari 26:01
But with that said, then in quantum physics, there's this lovely little thing called quantum entanglement, which throws time and space out the window.

Christian Thagard 26:12
Sure! Because okay, I think I wrote a an article recently called Quantum living simplified because I was trying to sum up some of this quantum stuff. Okay, two worlds, quantum world, physical world, okay. In the physical world, we got all these constraints in the quantum world, there's no speed limit. There's no speed limit, because it's it's what's actually what's the speed limit? In in the physical world, I came across this from an Anthony peaks book, who's your wonderful show that it's the refresh rate of the game here is to Planck time, which is the time it takes a photon to travel the Planck length. Isn't that cool? So we have a refresh rate. Bashar who is channeled by Daryl Anka has also been on your wonderful show. The team here has also talked about we got this incredibly fast refresh rate that feels true to me. By the way, all just as an aside all this stuff about you know, your dive and your study and what you go by, and I know you do, you can feel the truth of something. Things just ring true. And if they really rang true, you just get this tingle. And things that aren't doing most people believe them they just for me, they've always got Clank or, or no. But that one about the the refresh rate, I thought, that explains a lot. Because who else? Where else? Have you ever seen an explanation of why we have a speed limit? In the physical world? You know, the speed of light being speed limit? Makes sense, then it seems he knows. Everything starts to fit together. And the implausible, B starts to become like, Duh. I mean, I'm not there. For for me personally, I'm, I'm a way beyond beyond the balance of probabilities. I'm beyond a reasonable doubt on I think I know what we got here. And it's a spectacular,

Alex Ferrari 28:13
It is no it whatever this is, and that's the purpose of what I do is to answer these questions at the dive into these, these mysteries that, that all of us have, at one point or another, ask these questions, hopefully, about the nature of why we're here, what we are, what it is, how can we evolve all these deep, deep, powerful questions? And people I think more and more people are waking up to ask these questions. And I think that's why these conversations are so important.

Christian Thagard 28:41
Can we talk about that? Just just a bit? Sure. Yeah, I think it's different than it was 35 years ago, where you're worried holy cow, I'll get driven right out of the legal profession if anybody finds out I believe in this stuff. So there's something happening now that that that's pretty exciting, that there's some kind of waking up that that we're seeing and can I ask you an interview question now? Next Level Soul where do you get that name because I wrote a chapter called In Search of the next level I've been thinking about this next level for a while. So I'm not suggesting you ripped it off from me or the other way around. But would that delightful name next level soul which really sort of drew me in where did you get that from?

Alex Ferrari 29:23
My meditation? Oh, I literally was like, Okay, God, if you want me to do a show, I need a name that I can trademark and I can have a website with it and all this kind of stuff. And I just went into my meditation and just when I went deep, three little words, Next Level soul, and when it popped up, I'm like, Oh, well, that's nice. That's it. Just like that makes sense. It's literally that magical. It was I asked. Yeah, when it's a meditation, it popped in. I'm like, let me look it up. I looked it up. All the URL, the Euros open trademarks open. I was like, great. This is the one!

Christian Thagard 30:01
See, I first came across a sort of similar notion, maybe seven or eight years ago, I saw some little exercise, I was doing something I was reading to describe yourself in six words or less. Right away, I said, he knows there is another level. So this, this notion of the next level has been on my mind for a while now. So it's in the zeitgeist now. But I wanted to ask you about this, this, this, this awakening, because I'm waiting a long time for people to wake up. Now, when you first sort of take the red pill, you're thinking, Whoa, as soon as people find out about this stuff, they're all gonna dive in? Well, not quite so much. I mean, it's been waiting a few decades, if you will, maybe might be different. Now, even though I feel a little bit like Charlie Brown ready to kick the football, cry on channel by Lee Carol has been on your wonderful show, has said there's about one half of 1% of the population. That's old souls. And these are, we were basically told you're gonna wake up, you're gonna take the red pill, and you're gonna find whatever your lane whatever it may be, you've obviously found yours, Alex, I'm not entirely sure where mine is. But that's one half of 1% disease, do the math, it's 40 million people. That's a lot of viewers for your show. But what happened 1% Somehow I'm thinking and some of your guests have hinted at this too. I think there's a broader awakening coming. And I'm just shooting the breeze here. But maybe 10% of that are going to be the next who they're in or Morpheus shows up and says, Hey, what's going to eat red pill or blue pill? Because most people haven't taken any go. They just avoid it. So when that happens, if that happens, I'm thinking, well, maybe that's my lane, I want to be there for him to show him that, hey, this stuff makes sense. It's pretty painless. It doesn't make it crazy. It makes you mix your saner than you learn, man, it works in your life. Come on in the water's fine. And I know you're gonna be there for

Alex Ferrari 31:59
Well, the thing is this that the way you're looking at it is people waking up. But you're also forgetting the new souls coming in the new generation. They're coming in awake in many ways. My kids look at life so differently than you or I do. And then generations be behind me and you just what they just look at what we did. And just like you guys are insane. Like it doesn't it doesn't connect with them. So a lot of them are pre are coming in pre wired prepared for what is coming. I think that number is going to be a lot larger, I think it's not going to be 10% I think it's probably going to be at least in the 30 or 40% range over time, because it can't just be 10%. There's about

Christian Thagard 32:51
10% A sort of magical tipping point. Because you those are going to be the movers and shakers. And with it. Yes. Yes. The souls coming in. There. There's a lot of going around there. They're not newbies at this, they're gonna step right in, I get that. But what kind of programming do they get? They're gonna need better programming, then here, step in line, or there's a judgy God who's gonna send you to hell. I mean, come on.

Alex Ferrari 33:17
Well, well, that's true. But someone like you and I, when that programming came in, we had to fight through it. I'm assuming for you as well. I had to I was programmed like that as well. And I had to kind of that doesn't make sense to me. And it took years for me to deprogram myself of that, my kids, when I tell them the stories of how I was raised, they just like, what, like I told them, I explained the concept of hell, to my children, like literally a week ago. Yeah, they were on the floor laughing. They could not, they would just like, that just sounds crazy. It didn't make any sense to them, whatsoever. And now it's a joke in the house. But like, ah, like, it just didn't make any sense to them. I know people listening right now like, Oh, those poor children, blasphemy. Listen, it's my is the path that we're on. I don't believe in it. A God that yeah, that punishes you. For mistakes, for eternal, the hell for God Sakes.

Christian Thagard 34:15
I think I was pretty much programming resistant, you know, with all due respect to Bruce Lipton, who, uh, who I love I kind of just didn't listen because I always kind of burned out does that ring true to me even as relatively small child and no, I'm gonna form my own view of what that even did that practicing law for four decades it's sort of this is how you do it in a profession. I think I got a better way I'll try it over here. If you're wired that particular way to know I'm just gonna see the world different but you learn the kind of what can be done.

Alex Ferrari 34:48
You're not really interested in this this this frame of thought here because you know, right now we're talking about the planet being kind of primed for this awakening and things are happening. We can see it over round us, things have changed the way. You know, I know there's a lot of negative things happening in the world. But there's also a lot of positives. And you know, life is good for a lot of people in the world yet it's bad for some, for a majority, a lot of people in the world as well. But compared to where we were as a species 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, we are obviously, moving up in many ways. But if this information was brought to 300 years ago, like I say, all the time, we would have been burned at the stake. You know, they weren't prepared there. They just weren't prepared for those souls, couldn't handle this information, where today, people are open to these conversations.

Christian Thagard 35:47
I think we've come further than we think I don't think we give ourselves enough credit, we're more horrified than we've ever been. But I mean, people people think weren't horrible. How could people not be horrified at slavery? And yet it was in every country in the world less than 200 years ago?

Alex Ferrari 36:03
It wasn't that long ago.

Christian Thagard 36:04
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and we'll look, we'll look back at in it, it's exponential. In 10 or 20 years, we'll look back at some of the things that angle what are those clouds thinking? That was bad. But that's okay. You know, it's, it's not running around judging, it's not running around. It's not about running around fixing and saving, just just play with your own energy play with and pay attention to what you want to pay attention to.

Alex Ferrari 36:28
Now, with this, going back to the concept of simulation and and the game, where do near death experiences come into play here. From your perspective, people who die, go to the other side, see what's going on on the other side? And then come back, what's your feeling on those?

Christian Thagard 36:47
Well, I've come across many accounts, which which all ring true to me that there's a lobby or a passageway or some sort of program that's built on your way into gaming on your layout. And there's a program for near death experiences that if you're, these folks need another chance, you know, Ebenezer Scrooge, like, you want to go back or you want to you want to call it a lifetime? And the consistency of it. And it's obviously I mean, that's that this is this is real. Now, is death exactly the same? I don't know. I've had, I've had experiences personally, where I felt people passing as they passed, felt their joy. This was my father and I was one of my favorite memories. And tell him I'm okay, I should have done this a long time ago. I should I should have crossed over into joy coming from I you could probably feel it coming off. And you're right now. So I know what what this is there's, there's this beautiful lobby past you, and you go back into your Higher Self connected to everything. And then he has been another game.

Alex Ferrari 37:53
And as you know, the last six words that Steve Jobs said when he was passing?

Christian Thagard 37:57

Alex Ferrari 37:58
Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.

Christian Thagard 38:02

Alex Ferrari 38:03
That's his last words. He said in

Christian Thagard 38:06
The my last two words that I hope will be are "Nailed It!" I wish that for everybody. Just yeah, yeah, did exactly exactly what my higher self had in mind my soul had in mind when they spun this lifetime, and maybe even get a few surprises along the way.

Alex Ferrari 38:29
Well, let me ask you this, because this is an interesting idea. I've never actually asked this question on the show before. If this is a simulation, then how and what is channeling, connecting to the other side, other players on the other side, higher game players or masters if we're staying with the analogy of game of game theory here, what what are channels?

Christian Thagard 38:52
Well, telepathic communication, which I certainly experienced is just you just stepping out of the physical in Europe and other quantum and everything's connected and everybody and one of your guests. Channels kleos says, you said you asked Can anybody channel and they said everybody does. And we do so channeling from extraterrestrials, Pleiadians, Sirians and Arcturians will share their own out there. Well, why not? As soon as you step outside Plato's cave, do you connect it to that wonderful internet? Now channeling I recently wrote an article on why all the fuss about earth why don't they also interested here because seems everybody but me is is having someone speak through them. And the only such consistent messages, it feels so genuine. They feel so so, so true. Sure, it all makes a ton of sense. Once you once you get out of the density, where we can connect all over the place and these other civilizations the And they're far ahead of where we are. And they want to help us because they went through worse health than what we're going through. And I'd like it to be a little easier for us. I think that's really cool. Now they're all they're all within Okay, play these games serious game Orion game. By some accounts, and I believe this one Mars game long gone. But when they're when when their atmosphere went, why we use this notion that we're the we're the only thing billions and billions and billions of stars and planets and even billions of galaxies. And we're the only action and the rest of it was just built for no good reason.

Alex Ferrari 40:42
I agree with you completely. And the but there's also the the channels who channel Ascended Masters or spirit guides or connect to their higher self. That's a whole other realm if you will, because there are players, different players.

Christian Thagard 40:55
But again, this this day, once you step outside Plato's cave, it's all connected.

Alex Ferrari 41:03
And just so everybody. You and I both know, Plato's cave is can you explain Plato's cave for everybody who has never heard of that?

Christian Thagard 41:10
Oh, the outlet? I think most people actually come across the allegory as you're looking at shadows at cave walls and trying to discern from that what what what reality is, but they can't they're chained in a cage. So the cat turn around and look outside the cave and actually see what's casting the shadows. And I'd say the same thing with applies to the way thought works in our reality, that it is the driving force of what's creating the events in our lives, even though it doesn't look like that because it's a brilliant freakin illusion and a great game.

Alex Ferrari 41:45
Now, I'm gonna have to be fun here and ask you this question. What about glitches in the matrix glitches in the programming? Is there things like paranormal events, things that people talk about all the time? Is that are those glitches in this simulation? Or is it just part of the program?

Christian Thagard 42:05
You're talking like a black cat in the matrix or? Yeah, you know, butter, not Jiffy peanut butter? Well, yeah, no, all I see. All I see when I walk into Woods every day is I see perfection. I see. I see brilliance. I see perfection. This is. I'm just seeing all of it does it screw up? Sometimes I think it makes the game harder than then they realize they're making it. I think it looks easier. On the other side of the veil. I think we do chew bite off more than we can chew sometimes. And then we have that Homer Simpson goal moment at at in the life review. And then we go okay, I'm gonna send me right back in there. This time, I won't screw it up.

Alex Ferrari 42:49
Well, let me ask you this, though, with this idea of a simulation in the game? How does that mix with the idea that is becoming more and more popular in mainstream that I've ever seen before? It's in our movies. It's in the media, this ideas? People are talking about more and more, which is the multiverse parallel dimensions. Even quantum physics is talking about parallel dimensions and puts it in potential, the potentiality of multiverse. How does that work in with this idea?

Christian Thagard 43:20
You didn't by chance, give chance to look at the article I just posted on my website on parallel realities. I did not get this one wrote itself in one morning, I'm sort of like, I gotta write this down. It came to me in meditation. The question that got me thinking you there was a Scientific American article just this last week. And it was kind of quantum physics really having trouble with this, like it just start quantum physics in here. This notion of kind of single coin be tossed and can come up heads for you and tails for me. And they conclude, well, gee, it can. But then, if that happens, on that theory, you're not really here in my world? No, not really. I'm not really in yours. There's just a version of you here. And I'm a, there's a version of me and yours. And if that happens with every coin toss moment in our lives, which is millions in the course of a day, that just starts going off into crazy Ville. And I come back to the question I always ask is why? Why would the universe create that infinite boondoggle, which by the way of everything that could happen happens? And if every choice is played out, how has free will it goes from being the prime directive and the cornerstone of this game to pretty much irrelevant because everything plays out in every possible direction. So

Alex Ferrari 44:48
I would disagree with you on the free will because the free will is what is it is designing where everything goes. But it is it's not all that every single thing thing that could ever happen at every single moment is happening. But the choice like today, right now I'm going to show you choose left instead of right, well, then the right goes off and the left goes off. And then in those there's like, and there's different branches that keep going off and off, eventually everything happens. But it is not all happening at the same time, at least I can conceive of that.

Christian Thagard 45:20
Here's my theory. For what it's worth how I fit it together, I can divide the notion that I'm the only one here. And all I have in this world is versions of other people, as as my consciousness is tracking through the program. Now, I want my significant other to actually be there with me, if you know what I mean, having sharing this experience, and I conclude that we are sharing it, what's really venturing spinning off into the multiverse in the many worlds is, that's what's happening at the quantum level. But once it drops into the physical level, there's there's no then my consciousness tracks the one path through the game, and we're all tracking the same path. And the universe is which term I use to describe the genius of it all, weaves it all together and kind of puts the suit together and, and matches your quantum signal about this and my quantum signal about that. But are we each alone? No, I think we're, we're we are in this together. And I'd like to feel of that. And it brings to the other day. The the problem with quantum physics is it's trying to explain quantum physics in terms of the physical, you got to go into metaphysics, which literally means beyond physics to make any sense about quantum physics. An example of a misdirection on that is okay, there's got to be other dimensions, but we can't see them. So they must be really, really small. Sorry, yeah, man, but swinging the mess. Okay. So so that's it, that amat didn't make that up, you're not serious scientists. And well, they must be really, really smart. No, again, it's happening at the quantum level, or there's all these different versions of us again, think of the inefficiency of why it doesn't make, it doesn't kind of make any sense. So all these all these alternative futures, they play out, they play out at the quantum level, but we're doing it together. Not in lockstep, but we're, you know, we're doing this as a collective. And I would draw, I would make one exception, again, this is just conjecture. And that's, it appears in the past, like for us, sometimes you get done, get to go down the road, not take and experience the parallel. I think on that one, you probably are dealing with facsimiles of other consciousnesses. Because you're, you've already you're already in that exit lobby. But you get to see who would happen to firewood zigged instead as a find out for you. But, I mean, Tom Campbell just spoke very eloquently about, you know, the inefficiency of playing out every possibility. It's, it's, well, there's infinite and why. And, again, you got to ask, always ask the question, why. Two were called quantum physics has got to do to take the next step. Because remember, it's been stopped for, mostly stuck for for for a century, in shut up and calculate because it works. What it's got to do is is go, Oh, we got to reach up above the physical and income back to the simple phrase, as above. So below, the quantum world is the above the physical world is the below

Alex Ferrari 48:28
Using the analogy of because you were saying, Oh, look, if there's other realities, then it has to be small, like what they say do an Ant Man. But if you look at another show, called Stranger Things, they literally call it the upside down. And everything that lives here, lives there, but kind of in a bizarro way. And it's right next, it's right. We're here. Like, they literally the characters are on both sides trying to talk to each other. And you're like, hey, and like the music or something that it's literally not as far as we believe. It's just the shifting of consciousness that might get us to those other places.

Christian Thagard 49:07
I don't know that show. I got to look it up.

Alex Ferrari 49:10
You have to watch Stranger Things is one of the best shows on Netflix.

Christian Thagard 49:14
Absolutely. Well, thanks for Thank you. I don't know. I don't think there's multiple versions of my consciousness. Playing earth game as Christian Thagar,

Alex Ferrari 49:27
No, no, in that analogy, there isn't multiple versions of you. There's just multiple realities of of this game. So there's different versions of this game that are different in a different way. And but it's not that the throughout the the actual avatar, it can go on both.

Christian Thagard 49:46
That could be the crossover would be the challenge.

Alex Ferrari 49:50
Obviously, you can't just take a bus there or Uber to the other.

Christian Thagard 49:55
I mean, how would I know if there were other versions in Norcross, besides I got enough to think about I hear you know, there's I come back to theme Parker, this is pretty entertaining. And the rabbit holes you get to explore in the did you explore on your show? There's there's no shortage of intellectual fun.

Alex Ferrari 50:14
Yeah. And also I mean, the the programming are hard hardware is limited, like our brains and what we can process in this in this body is a limitation. We can't go beyond it's very difficult to if you stay here in this body, it's hard to process things like the ideas of what we're talking about even sometimes because beyond our comprehension, almost the infinite

Christian Thagard 50:42
Yes and no chapter of my book was five illusions your brain can't get past. Okay? Okay, so your brain can't get past a period. It's, it's, that's by design, just like your your ego self. It's sort of they're stuck in, it can't get out of the linear. Okay? So. But that's not all of who you are. It's just got access to other aspects of who you are. Now, now you go. Now you go wherever you want, your physical body will stay behind. But yeah, well, maybe someday we'll learn to do that too.

Alex Ferrari 51:12
Well, let me ask you this. Is it possible that the player, our soul, let's say is the player behind us the Higher Self cannot play more than one game at the same time?

Christian Thagard 51:25
They can. Well, I mean, you've had probably 1000s of lifetimes, Alex. product you could add might be a little confusing if you met yourself, because you probably recognize yourself, you know, the the soul, when would you know you're looking angle son of a bitch. That mean? That would be a little weird. I don't know. I haven't met myself, but that way?

Alex Ferrari 51:49
Well, because I've heard from spiritual masters. I've spoken to that. And also channels and also near death experiences, that there is no time on the other side. Everything is just happening at the same time. So this idea of a timeline, like okay, I was getting his con. And then I was, you know, someone in the Inquisition and I was someone in the great plague or whatever, that that's a timeline scenario. Like, I lived, I died, I born lived. But they're saying it's all happening at the same time. And that what we do in this current lifetime is affecting the other ones. Like if there's, if there's something challenged that we like we've been taken advantage of for five lifetimes, and we haven't been able to stand up for ourselves. And in this lifetime, we finally stand up for ourselves, it ripples to the other lifetimes, not by for at the same time. It's weird.

Christian Thagard 52:44
I've heard that I've heard that enough times that it makes that ring and rings true. And I can kind of get in meditation, can my can my physical brain rocket? No, that's okay.

Alex Ferrari 52:56
Well, then, let me let me ask you this. Are there any philosophical or religious beliefs in your in your studies that align with the simulation theory?

Christian Thagard 53:06
All of them.

Alex Ferrari 53:08
Please. I'd love for you to tell the audience.

Christian Thagard 53:10
Well, the perennial philosophy that all is one. I mean, I wrote an article called The ABCs of metaphysics, I was trying to see if I could explain metaphysics in about three pages. Who are you you're an at bat piece of God having an adventure now that we're all part of the one that's pretty much every spiritual path at the top of them of the as it gets towards the top of the mountain arrives at that same conclusion, oh, my goodness, we're all we're all part of the one not just inside God, we're where were the two we are where there's anybody piece pretending to be. And I love that as a hologram, where where the whole thing, and as a fractal, we're up there on the, in the Wild West, exploring. So no, I don't find anything that that. In fact, this is the beautiful part of the you know, when you're in a Hindu and Buddhist and even in the teachings of Jesus, holy cow, it offense, it all starts to come together. And that's different lexicons, different perspectives on the channel stuff. Again, it all fits. You get, you get rather adept at translating, okay, they're using this expression, these others are using this expression, these are coming out this way. They're all describing the same thing. And it's beautiful.

Alex Ferrari 54:28
Oh, I've and I have a very unique perspective, because I've talked to so many people in from different walks of life, from quantum physicists, to spiritual masters to Near Death Eaters, and so on, that I keep seeing these patterns. I'm starting to see the patterns. I'm like, Oh, they're just it's a different flavor of the same thing. It's a different flavor that the truth is The truth is the truth regardless of where it's coming from, from a channel or from a near death experience, or quantum physicist talking about spirituality.

Christian Thagard 54:56
And when you talk about simulation, I mean, I'm talking about some ad A teenage alien, that civilization. And again, I'm talking about this is this is God's creation and by simulation, don't mean it's not real, it means there's something more real

Alex Ferrari 55:14
Which is every single philosophy or religion has said one way, shape or form,

Christian Thagard 55:19
They all get to the same maya illusion, whatever and it's the it's, it's really as it starts to piece together and goes, holy cow, we're all climbing the same mountain. It's really comforting. And that's one of those Neil like moments where he goes, I know Kung Fu and you see it all you see the fit and you just sort of go yeah, that feels good. I'm gonna I'm gonna hold up. Yeah, and this is the whole point. This stuff though all these every message I've ever written on this stuff on my website or in my book is pretty upbeat like it this is steel good stuff. This is not just sort of superficial soccer and type stuff, but sort of Whoa, I liked this notion that I'm a itty bitty piece of God having an adventure here. I mean, I kind of liked that diamond works and is playing it's playing as learning a science experiment it's exploring

Alex Ferrari 56:17
Its growth its growth

Christian Thagard 56:19
We forget you know we get so obsessed with things with fixing ourselves or fix and others or what's wrong focusing on what's wrong we forget to play here I mean think Parker Come on. Let's enjoy this. That was again Cleito channel done on your show was there's billions of souls wanting to come here you know, celebrate you won the lottery. Celebrate being here I don't think we celebrate life enough. I tried to.

Alex Ferrari 56:49
Christian I can keep talking to you for hours my friend I really appreciate you being on the show. I'm gonna ask you those few questions ask all my guests What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Christian Thagard 57:03
Pursue what lights you up just find your your lane will be where the joy is. Just go out it as Prasad says without the slightest thought of where it will lead you can't be wrong.

Alex Ferrari 57:15
If you got that opportunity to go into that time machine and go back and talk to your younger self what advice would you give you?

Christian Thagard 57:20
So that's that's an easy one. It's just assume everything will work out. Sometimes I get myself the same advice justice. It was just such good advice.

Alex Ferrari 57:32
How do you define God?

Christian Thagard 57:34
Everything all it is .You mean my dog?

Alex Ferrari 57:38
What is the ultimate purpose of life?

Christian Thagard 57:41
It's play. It's explore science experiment. Theme Park joyride and find the journey home and find the delight in the journey home

Alex Ferrari 57:54
And where can people find out more about you and get your amazing book Earth Game?

Christian Thagard 57:58 That's thagard and my books available on Amazon but I posted since I wrote the book the book is sort of a meta applied metaphysics one on one and I posted 32 articles now since it's since I published the book that are all sort of whatever rabbit hole call to me on any particular date. So that one click access go read them and reach out to me if you find anything interesting people. Always happy talking about metaphysics which is another reason I love your show and I'm not just sucking up Alex, I love your show.

Alex Ferrari 58:35
Appreciate that very much my friend and you have any parting messages for the audience?

Christian Thagard 58:40
Just enjoyed this be in all of it.

Alex Ferrari 58:44
Christian I appreciate you my friend. Thank you again for being on the show and for getting the word out and trying to wake in the world my friend. Thank you again.

Christian Thagard 58:52
Thank you, Alex.

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