Next Level Soul Podcast Episode 279
Quantum physicist Amit Goswami joins Alex Ferrari to explain why he believes consciousness is the ground of all being, what quantum nonlocality suggests about a domain beyond space and time, and how expanding your consciousness through love, creativity and meditation leads to a more fulfilled life.
Key Takeaways
- Amit says consciousness is the ground of all being, and that matter exists as possibilities of consciousness to choose from.
- He describes nonlocality as communication without signals, and links it to quantum entanglement.
- He argues that a domain outside space and time, which he says spiritual traditions call heaven, is needed to make sense of what physics has measured.
- He calls creativity a quantum leap, and says the heart reaches that leap more easily than the rational mind.
- He says including another person in your care is an expansion of consciousness, and shares how a seven-day meditation ended in an experience of oneness.
- He defines fulfillment as satisfaction, a kind of happiness, and says to feel that expansion as often as you can.
A Hunch About a Better Physics
Amit says he was fortunate to have an intuition that there is a better way of doing physics. In his view, many people treat physics as if it does not matter to our lives, as if it only describes the objective, material world. He believes physics has to be the basis of all science, including biology, psychology and us as human beings.
His hunch was that quantum physics holds the answer. He credits the great scientist John von Neumann for pointing in this direction, and says the paradoxes people raised against bringing consciousness into physics could be answered. The insight came one night during a conversation with a friend. Amit says the paradoxes can go away if we realize that consciousness is the ground of all being, and that matter exists as possibilities of consciousness to choose from.
Possibility Waves and the Domain Beyond Space and Time
Alex asks how Amit defines consciousness in relation to quantum physics. Amit starts with the idea that quantum objects are possibility waves. We never see a single object as a wave, he explains. We only see it as a particle at the moment we measure it, so the wave cannot simply be brushed aside. He says the Copenhagen interpretation sidetracks this question, and that it still shapes how many physicists think.
From there, Amit says these waves of possibility reside in a domain outside of space and time. He points out that spiritual traditions have said this all along, calling that domain by names like heaven. The domain of potentiality, he says, is what we call consciousness, or more accurately the unconscious, since there is no experience in it yet.
Entanglement and Communication Without Signals
Alex shares that near-death experiencers often describe instant communication, and asks what instant communication means in physics. Amit answers that it is communication without signals. Inside space and time, any signal needs time to travel, and the speed of light is the limit Einstein described. In the domain of potentiality, Amit says, nonlocal communication needs no signal, so distance does not matter. He says this is the basis of what we call quantum entanglement.
Einstein called it spooky, Amit explains, because Einstein could not conceive of anything outside space and time. Once you accept a domain beyond space and time, he says, the spookiness goes away. Alex describes entanglement as something happening to a particle here and being mirrored instantly on the other side of the room. Amit adds that two objects can communicate through space and time, and also outside of present time.
Alex presses on how far apart entangled objects can be pulled. Amit says to think of the electrons as possible electrons, living in the domain of potentiality. As they move apart, they are only potentially moving apart, and neither is manifest yet. The correlation shows up when one manifests, he explains: if one electron spins one way, the other must spin the opposite way. How does the second one know, at a distance, with no signal? Amit says Einsteinian relativity cannot answer that, because it cannot happen inside space and time.
Alex links this to near-death experiencers, who tell him there is no time on the other side. Amit replies that in the domain of potentiality, time is no longer real time. Alex also asks whether the expansion of the universe is faster than light. Amit says that is a separate question for cosmology. His point is that experiments on Earth have separated objects by kilometers, where space is not curved, and the communication still outruns light, which he takes as nonlocality.
Why Materialists Resist the Evidence
Alex asks why materialists have such a hard time accepting this. Amit gives several reasons. He describes sophistry, the practice of denying reality by giving the appearance of rationality. He describes what the philosopher Karl Popper called promissory materialism, the promise that someday we will explain the nonlocality of the brain. Amit says Richard Feynman showed that computers cannot do what the mind does, and that materialists answer by saying the brain is more than a computer.
His deeper answer is about the heart. Amit says scientists are rational people, and the rational mind separates you from consciousness and from the direct experience of nonlocality. For him, the vehicle is love, which we feel in the heart. He says he and a colleague run master’s and PhD programs in quantum science, and that about 80 percent of the people who come to those courses are women, who he says feel the heart better than men in general.
Alex calls this the Galileo effect. Amit agrees and traces it to Descartes, whose line “I think, therefore I am” tied the Western mind to rational thinking and left out the emotions. When Alex says even a blade of grass has consciousness, Amit adds that animals do not think but they do feel, and that feeling is enough for cognition. Liking or disliking someone is a way of acknowledging them, he says, and a pet is the clearest example.
The Brain, the Mind and Near-Death Experiences
Amit says creating a confusion that the mind is created by the brain misses the point. He argues that brain and mind are nonlocally correlated, and that an association does not mean one produces the other. He says materialism often uses red herrings, and he gives an example from a news story about the parietal lobe going quiet during near-death experiences. Amit says the parietal lobe gives us our sense of identity with the body, so when it is suspended, we lose that identity and have an out-of-body experience. But he says this does not explain a person seeing their own body being operated on, which he calls a nonlocal experience.
Alex adds that some experiencers describe what doctors did, and the details were verified. He also raises how near-death experiences share themes but look different across cultures. Amit says some of the memories come from the collective unconscious, an idea from Carl Jung. In Western culture people may see Jesus, and in India they may see a different figure, he says, but what is behind the images is the same. He adds that the collective unconscious is always nonlocal.
Amit says people were once far more connected, before the rational mind took over. Hunter-gatherers lived very physically, he explains, and later men and women worked together in gardens, where families formed. He calls this tribal consciousness, though he says the nonlocal connection runs much deeper. If two people are connected nonlocally, he says, your memory can be as easy for me to reach as it is for you.
Alex raises the placebo effect as another puzzle for materialism, adding that modern medicine is amazing when you need it. Amit calls it a clear case of mind over matter. In his view, mind is an aspect of consciousness, and consciousness goes beyond both matter and mind. He offers this as his reading of the science, not as medical advice.
Quantum Leaps in Creativity
Alex asks whether even Einstein played the violin to get ideas and took quantum leaps in his work. Amit agrees that Einstein took quantum leaps all the time. He says creativity is a quantum leap, a discontinuous jump, and intuition is a small one. It needs an open, accepting mind, and he says too much reliance on the rational mind makes you lose that flexibility.
On the materialist view, he explains, creativity is just a reshuffling of existing knowledge in the brain. Under that definition, AI programs like ChatGPT could be more creative than any human, and he says that is why people worry. He mentions Stephen Hawking’s fear that machines might take over. Amit’s answer is that a machine can never be nonlocal, so it cannot intuit or take a creative leap into the domain of potentiality.
He says we can reach that domain through the brain, but it is much harder because of our rational mind. The heart, he says, is very easily quantum. Because potentiality is infinite, Amit believes human beings will always be a step ahead of machines. Alex adds that a machine cannot love.
Oneness and the Expansion of Consciousness
Alex asks how quantum physics explains oneness. Amit says oneness reflects nonlocality. We do not feel it in ordinary life because our memories condition our experience, and ordinary experience comes from the ego, which he describes as an identification with our personal history. The ego is far more constricted than what we are capable of, he says.
Speaking of the Vedic traditions, Amit calls their authors researchers of consciousness. Without telescopes, he says, they studied what happens inside through meditation and creativity. He says there is nothing in the Vedas that quantum physics cannot explain. He also names Abraham Maslow and Carl Jung as people who described similar experiences, and says these experiences are not uncommon.
Then he defines expansion. Including another person in your consciousness is an expansion, Amit says. Caring for you as much as I care for me is an expansion. He shares that he had a moment of realizing he could love everyone, and that the ability lasted for two entire days before it faded. To get there, he says, he did a seven-day meditation through all his waking hours. On the seventh day, outside his office at the university in Oregon, the world became one with him. He says he became one with everything.
Loneliness, Connection and the Next Generation
Alex asks whether more scientists are coming to this view. Amit says there are some quantum physicists, and more people in transpersonal psychology, and that he has no grudge against anyone who cannot accept it yet. He points out that the recent Nobel Prize was given for work on nonlocality, which he calls an exception. Even so, he says, materialists still believe the brain will explain everything someday.
Amit says his answer is teaching. He and a colleague give master’s and PhD degrees, and he says students are convinced because they get all the details. Alex says he sees more curiosity about these ideas than ever, and that conversations like this plant seeds. Amit agrees and points to the next generation, describing a workshop on love in Brazil where a 16-year-old thrived with ideas like nonlocality. In his view, a quantum individual does not feel the loneliness of an isolated one, because love is a nonlocal connection.
Fulfillment, Purpose and Following Your Bliss
Amit defines a fulfilled life as satisfaction, which he describes as a kind of happiness and expansion of consciousness. His advice is to experience that expansion as often as you can in your waking hours. He adds that we also notice, a little, whether we slept happily or not.
Asked what he would tell his younger self, Amit says to change your worldview as quickly as you can. He lived as an isolated intellectual until he was 37, when his intuition came. He says relying on intellect alone leaves you disconnected from consciousness, from love and from your own body.
Amit adds that Einstein, late in life, told a friend he had found one thing he never found, which is love. Amit offers it as a warning about living only in the intellect.
He describes God as unity consciousness, the ground of all being, and suggests the best word is nonlocality: oneness without an exchange of signals. He says we should be careful about making God into images, since those are only archetypes pointing to the source. The purpose of life, in his words, is to follow archetypes like love, beauty, justice, truth and wholeness. Power and abundance are fine, he adds, as long as they are combined with love. His final message is to ask the big questions about the purpose and meaning of life, and to follow your bliss, as Joseph Campbell said.
On power, he says people can chase riches or influence without love, and he names Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela as people who combined them with love. The same goes for truth. If scientists combine truth with love, he says, they will explore it to empower people, not to manipulate them.
Spiritual Takeaways
- Care for others as you care for yourself, which Amit calls an expansion of consciousness.
- Creativity can arrive in leaps, not just steps, so stay open to intuition.
- Try to feel that expansion often during your waking hours.
- Pair power and abundance with love.
- If you want to explore more, visit Amit’s site at amitgoswami.org.
Please enjoy my conversation with Amit Goswami.
Guest Links: Connect With Amit Goswami
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Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Amit Goswami?
Amit Goswami is a quantum physicist and author who joins Alex Ferrari to talk about consciousness, quantum physics and spirituality. He says he and a colleague run master’s and PhD programs in quantum science, and his website is amitgoswami.org.
How does Amit connect consciousness and quantum physics?
Amit says consciousness is the ground of all being and that matter exists as possibilities of consciousness to choose from. He believes this idea answers the paradoxes raised against bringing consciousness into physics.
What does Amit mean by nonlocality?
He describes nonlocality as communication without signals. Inside space and time, a signal needs time to travel. Outside of it, he says, objects can communicate instantly, and he links this to quantum entanglement. He adds that entangled objects are not yet manifest, so when one shows up as a particle, the other is correlated with it instantly, with no signal crossing the distance.
Why did Einstein call entanglement spooky?
Amit says Einstein could not conceive of anything outside space and time, so he called instant communication spooky. Amit says it stops being spooky once you accept a domain beyond space and time.
What is the domain of potentiality?
It is the domain outside space and time where Amit says possibility waves reside. He says it is what we call consciousness, or more accurately the unconscious, since there is no experience there, and he compares it to what spiritual traditions call heaven.
Does Amit think the brain creates the mind?
No. He says the brain and mind are nonlocally correlated, and that an association does not prove one produces the other. He believes confusing the two misses the point. In his view, mind is an aspect of consciousness, and consciousness goes beyond both matter and mind.
How does Amit explain near-death experiences?
He says suspending the parietal lobe may explain the loss of identity with the body, but not seeing your own body being operated on, which he calls a nonlocal experience. He also says some of the shared themes come from the collective unconscious. He adds that the images vary by culture, but what is behind them is the same.
Can AI be creative, according to Amit?
Amit says that if you define creativity as reshuffling existing knowledge, AI can do it. But he says a machine cannot be nonlocal, so it cannot intuit or take a creative quantum leap. He believes people will always be a step ahead of machines because potentiality is infinite.
How did Amit experience oneness?
He says he did a seven-day meditation through all his waking hours. On the seventh day, outside his office, he felt he became one with everything, and that the ability to love everyone lasted for two entire days.
How does Amit define fulfillment and the purpose of life?
He defines fulfillment as satisfaction, a kind of happiness and expansion of consciousness, to be felt as often as possible. He says the purpose of life is to follow archetypes like love, beauty, justice, truth and wholeness, and to follow your bliss. He adds that power and abundance are fine when combined with love.
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Follow Along with the Transcript
Amit Goswami 0:00
We can make the brain to take a quantum leap as well. However, that is much more difficult because of our rational mind getting super mystery. But the heart is very easily Quantum. So we have to find our identity in the heart in order to discovered this quantum reality.
Alex Ferrari 0:29
I'd like to welcome to the show Dr. Amit Goswami How you doing Dr. Amit?
Amit Goswami 0:34
Glad to be here.
Alex Ferrari 0:35
Thank you so much for coming on the show my friend. I'm looking forward to our conversation about quantum physics and spirituality, and how those two worlds seem to be getting closer and closer, despite people's attempts to pull them apart.
Amit Goswami 0:52
And did you know we read every day news about how loneliness is becoming an epidemic in America. But we don't realize that they don't in essence, because we don't acknowledge love, we don't acknowledge heart. And all this is really ultimately non acknowledgement of consciousness as the force behind us. Beliefs that matter is everything is really creating havoc in the entire world in the form of global climate change and what have you for assertion of politics. But people just have no idea. The intelligencia just completely denies everything. No, it has to be batteries everything.
Alex Ferrari 1:36
Well, let me ask you Dr. Amit what began your journey of being a renegade, a quantum physicist because that's what exactly you are is kind of a renegade, because you are connecting quantum physics and spirituality in a field that frowns upon that your colleagues I imagined frowned upon it when you started to come out publicly like this, what started your journey like this?
Amit Goswami 1:58
Well, I was pretty fortunate to have an intuition that there is a better way of doing physics than people do it. People do it like I take physics does not matter to our life, as if it's all about the objective world material world. But actually, it physics has to be the basis of all science, including biology and psychology, including us human beings, then physics got to do better than that. So I have a hunch that quantum physics has the answer for that. The hunch based on something that John von Neumann great scientists already pointed out, except that what he suggested, paradoxes could be raised against the way of intruding consciousness at our personal consciousness. And then one night by was talking with a friend. And during that conversation, the insight came to me that the paradox is all can go away. If we realize that consciousness is the ground of all being and matter exists as possibilities of consciousness to choose from. That's the solution of the quantum paradoxes.
Alex Ferrari 3:06
I mean, it sounds fantastic. So how can can you tell me? How do you define consciousness as a relation to quantum physics?
Amit Goswami 3:14
Exactly. So quantum physics leads consciousness because the quantum idea that objects are possibility waves, this idea is revolutionary. People try to sidetrack it, and that's called the Copenhagen interaction and that still controls the mind of many physicists side to sidetrack this problem of what does the fact that object is a wave I mean, originally, they tried to suggest that objects are waves. But we of course, do not see them as waves you only see them as particle as something that they can brush aside. But the fact is, we can never see a single object as a wave we already see it when you measure it, we see it as a particle. So how can you brush that aside? Because single objects can be isolated from the physics of single objects got to be important for neurobiological systems or psychological systems. So are we are a single object. So I was looking at that from that point of view, and then it's obvious, it's obvious that the waves are waves of possibility. Resolved residing in a domain outside of space and time like the spiritual traditions are telling us all along that space. Time is not the only domain there is the domain that transcends space and time. They are calling it by names like heaven and there was a lot of misconception about whatever it contains. And that made it easy for the virtual this bias to take place historically, but quantum physics is clearly ruling that out because there is a concept called non Roca. ability, which suggests that objects quantum objects, if correlated, if they interact come in close together, they can communicate instantly. But instant communication is not allowed in space and time. So the fact that they can communicate instantly suggests that there has to be a domain outside of space and time. And that domain is the domain of potentiality is the government that we call consciousness, or unconscious to be more accurate because there is no experience in that domain. This is what we call unconscious, a concept that tried already introduced even before quantum physics came along,
Alex Ferrari 5:40
There was that I've spoken to many near death experiencers people who have gone to the other side, based on their experiences, and they talk about this instant communication, this downloading of information instantly. So it kind of connects with what you're saying. But from a quantum physics point of view, what does that actually mean communication instantly? Because I get in the near death experience, and the afterlife, I get that it's soul to soul. Communication is different. I've heard it from many many different sources, but from the practical quantum physics world, how do you explain that?
Amit Goswami 6:17
It's communication without signals. Right. The question is space and time requires a signal to travel from me to you, but communication outside of space time works without signals and therefore does not need any time lapse between poor communication in signals always traveled with a fine art spirit, these are the Einsteins great discovery called theory of relativity, the speed of light is the maximum speed limit. So when based on time, there is always a signal required for communication and signal must take a certain amount of time to travel the distance between the objects. However, in the domain of potentiality, when nonlocality is possible non local communication is possible, what it means that however, the distance between the objects or the it doesn't matter, they will communicate instantly anywhere, and how that is because there is no signal involved. So, non local communication is signal rest communication.
Alex Ferrari 7:22
So, is that kind of the basis of quantum entanglement
Amit Goswami 7:26
That is the basis that we call quantum entanglement is the phenomenon we call quantum entanglement.
Alex Ferrari 7:32
What can you explain? Because I, you and I both, I mean, I can't say I understand quantum entanglement, but I understand some of the basic ideas of it, and you explain it to the layman of what, what revolutionary, quote unquote spookiness that Einstein called it the spooky physics, physics, what is exactly happening? And why is it so revolutionary in the idea of quantum physics and quantum mechanics.
Amit Goswami 7:56
Einstein called spooky, because to Einstein, who discovered the theory of relativity, it is imperative that everything occurs in space and time, Einstein could not conceive outside of space and time, and therefore he calls such communication spooky, but as soon as you accept that there is an outside of space and time, a domain of potentiality, as we call it, then the spookiness is no longer exist, because it's the inside space and time what the rule is, you cannot exceed the speed of light, or traveling. Without space time, there is no such rule. And therefore, any period, including infinite speed is possible. And so communication Calacatta at infinite speed instantly, is not spooky, at all, because the communication is according to the domain of potentiality. Or otherwise, think of these two objects, they can communicate through space and time, they can also communicate outside of present time,
Alex Ferrari 8:59
Because it's so Because from what I understand with quantum entanglement, if something happens to a neuron or an electron here, and you put it on the other side of the room, if something happens to it here, it's connected in an instantly happens here. And they kept trying to move it farther and farther away with space and, and time essentially. And no matter how far away they think it didn't do it out into space or something along those lines, were they able to track it to the point where it's just like, well, this doesn't make any sense anymore. In the materialistic sense.
Amit Goswami 9:28
If it's right you're getting tangled up, think of the electrons as possible electrons, they are a domain of potentiality. And so when we start moving apart, further and further, they are potentially moving apart further and further. Neither of the electrons are manifested yet okay. Sure, many manifest electrons. But the manifestation will have the sign that they are communicating before manifestation how because whichever When one electron is manifest, the other electron is correlated with that way, the entanglement cannot be denied. For example, we say if an electron is spinning this way, then the other one must be spinning the opposite way. But how does the electron know at a distance without any signal? This is the puzzle that Einsteinian relativity, physics cannot answer. It cannot happen in space and time. So it must be happening. So this domain of outside of space and time, that's the total and we think, epic computer that says that we are still thinking that everything is always in present time. No, whenever I don't look, objects of quantum physics becomes objects of domain of potentiality.
Alex Ferrari 10:50
It's so interesting, because again, I'll go back to the near death experiencers, who tell me we I always ask what's time, like there and they go, there is no time. There is no time, you know, one minute here could be two weeks there, if you want to even try to give it some sort of revenue.
Amit Goswami 11:10
Because time becomes a potentiality is no longer real time. Like we have objects in prism.
Alex Ferrari 11:17
But it makes your head hurt to start thinking about these kinds of things, because we're based in this kind of space and time realm, if you will. And to think beyond that's kind of like the question is like, Well, God has always been has never had a beginning nor end, or the Source Energy has never had to be, that's like for us, it's impossible, because for us, everything has a beginning and everything has an end. So you start to think like your head starts to hurt after a while. One thing I wanted to ask you, and I've heard this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, that there is something faster than than light in the space and time which is the expansion of the universe itself is faster than the speed of light. Is that true?
Amit Goswami 12:00
No, this things are very difficult to put in. It is a it is the result of very complex theories that we're talking about. Indeed, in general theory of relativity, such statements can be made, but in truth, they have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Sure, that is that is something else completely, we are talking about in a place and time where space is not carved. And therefore all those questions aside issues. In the in the presence of car space, can there be speed passed up in the spirit of blood, these are other issues. On Earth, we are doing this experiment, there is no curvature of space here to warrant that kind of issue. There is some conflict between quantum physics and general relativity that is not solved yet. But that's problem of high high level problem of physics. They're important only for cosmology, nowhere else. So those problems separate from this problem. This is problems with drought on Earth. Pigs have been separated by kilometer, we have experimental setup, separate by kilometer. And even then we find that objects are moving faster than the speed of light, don't curvature of space, you cannot give that kind of argument here. So where is this faster than light communication coming from? And it has to be quantum nonlocality according to a domain outside of space and time, because in space and time this could never happen.
Alex Ferrari 13:37
Well, let me ask you this. Why do you believe in this because you you are or were inside of the machine. Why do you believe that? Materialism and materialist have such a difficult time accepting these obvious provable facts about what's happening? Our entire conversation and they're just basically ignoring it. They're just like add spooky they're using like dismissive words like spooky, because they don't want to deal with it because it throws their entire foundation of their theories out the window. Why do you think they have such a difficulty embracing scientific facts?
Amit Goswami 14:14
Well, there are ways to you know, you have heard about people who can avoid discussion by rational seemingly rational arguments. It's called sophistry following a Greek word, Ancient Greece scientists, they're called sofas and this still exists. sophistry is a way of denying reality by giving the appearance of rationality. So the appearance of Christianity is brought about whenever there is some confusion, there is something that we are not quite sure yet. The rational argument that is always made by scientist is that the brain is something of an unknown phenomenon, and therefore the brain could do things, perhaps, that we have not figured out yet how the brain does it. So there say that although it is true that in principle, nonlocality certainly is reality, and therefore we are saying, in principle, this unconscious realm does exist the domain of potentiality. But they're saying it's not relevant to the macroscopic scale in which we become the brain. And it is not us really, there is no us. But it is the brain which does peculiar things, brain is able to do all kinds of weird things. It's called promissory materialism. It's Karl Popper, a very world renowned philosopher called this promissory materialism. You cannot argue against promises like this, but someday we'll explain the nonlocality of the brain. But this is the contention. Richard Fineman who was a very great physicist of the last century, he proved that computers cannot do it. And so if we look at brain as a computer, certainly brain cannot do it. But they always say no brain is just not a just a computer, it also can cognize and it can have even nonlocality it can do quantum measurement. So all kinds of things. That's the say, that is promissory, we have enough uncertainty about brain structure to leave a little bit of doubt in everybody's mind, and they take advantage of that. So this is going to continue. The I'll tell you the real reason Aleksei this does not take around US intelligence to find the real reason the real reason is that scientists are rational people. rational mind separates you from consciousness separates you from this non-local experience for the nonlocality to explain it instead. Brian is not the first vehicle the vehicle is actually love, which occurs in another organ, which we have the heart which has immune system and the heart. But the it is very difficult to lead for intellectuals to experience this expansion of consciousness that we call nonlocality directly, and because they never experienced that they go along with the fact that way. So it could be that we are just machines, although they themselves are constantly saying we are creative, we have free will we are relating to the world, we can make changes, we take ourselves so seriously. But underneath they believe that all of this would be that this is all just empty. And brain is the real actor behind our actions. Right.
Alex Ferrari 17:54
It's like trying to quantify love. It's something that we've all felt in one way shape or form. But we can't pin it down. We can't
Amit Goswami 18:04
We cannot pin it down with concept. We cannot bring it down with rational mind. And so we know who is going to take us out of this move all this quagmire. I think that is very clear, you know, any seminar drive teach any courses that Valentina and I, you know, we have a we have a PhD program, master's program for quantum science, what we teach our students learn, but this material this will never accept this kind of thing, because they will forever be tied by the very construction that they suffer from. They never experienced heart they never experienced love, which is a well known fact that very few of the rationalist experience ever have experienced the extent of what we call love. But of course women do. And you know what I was going to say that women flocked to our courses, majority 80% that come to physics in this way quantum science we call it our women into sleeping, feel the heart much better. Of course there are people like you and me who also feel the heart. But women in general, build the heart much better than men. And saving grace Yeah.
Alex Ferrari 19:32
So is this so what you're saying about the establishment of the materialists is basically the Galileo effect.
Amit Goswami 19:38
Yeah, it is thought of that. Even before it was different before Galileo you know there Descartes statement I think, therefore I am. Therefore we lost our mind is forever attached to that Descartes statement. Although new entities themselves have long refuted, Descartes there is a book even beautiful book de cartes error Descartes was that he did not recognize the emotions, personal of human being. So the Cartesian thought that we are just consciousness is just part of rationality thinking, that is the big block.
Alex Ferrari 20:17
Well, I mean to be in we could you also could debate too that animals do think at a different level, not maybe it's as sophisticated as we do. But there is consciousness there. There's consciousness as a blade of grass.
Amit Goswami 20:28
And the language Alex, we knew without this understanding, or using the word thinking, No, animals don't think different animals do not think period. But animals do feel, and oh, feeling is enough for cognition. Say, if I feel you directly, or you, like the feeling, or I just like the feeling, but it's a combination or not, is also a cognition, I'm acknowledging, I like you. So I embrace you, or I dislike you, I repel you. Right? So one can cognized with feeling. And this is what typically animals do. It's very clear from their behavior, data and like or dislike, but it's the complex. A pet is a clear example. Oh, what to some people, because I like this. And they will avoid some people with a cat in very clear,
Alex Ferrari 21:23
Very clear with a cat and very good, definitely clear with a dog as well. Without question, without question. So let me ask you this, this idea, and this is this is where I want to bring it back to spirituality because this is where I find fascinating the realm of, quote unquote, past the veil, the other side, where we go after we die. How does that is that the idea of multiverses the idea of other realms, how does that work within the structure of quantum physics? Or does it?
Amit Goswami 21:58
It's really again another red herring this other universes question does not even arise, unless you are thinking of very large scale of things, other universes, by definition can come cannot communicate with the universe, this universe in any kind of way, right. So, the point is that if the other universe situation is just not a part of this dialogue, this dialogue, what is happening is the person's brain is incapacitated. Art has failed person brain is not working, there is no brain potentiality word brain potential anymore, the EEG is clearly showing zero right. So, consciousness is brain dead, brain is not evoking consciousness anymore, person is brain dead. So, this person is now having coming back after a while, when the brain is wired, and saying that Oh, I had all these experiences that could not possibly be explained by my past experiences, they will experience or not in my brain, for example, I experienced myself hovering in the ceiling, and looking at my body being operated on this could not be in my brain already. Unless we are already recognizing pic ordination or something, which is either. So, this is the kind of thing and all normal experience that is taking place, which cannot take place in a material brain, we already are good. So that material objects unless they are communicating through this consciousness, they cannot have non local experiences. So in this way, we are that kind of phenomena already suggest that something very different than our usual conceptualization is taking place. But you know, materialists always sidestep this issue. I'll give you an example recently. Apple news, put this worldwide in order to that they have a huge reach. And they were talking about the an experiment that has been done that somebody's reporting the debt when they were being revived brains parietal lobe. This is the lobe that's in the slightly in the back from the center. In this is pronto, this is per year, and part of the parietal lobe goes out of action, they're suspended in the near death. Now that explanation is actually the explanation of why near death experiences are out of the body experiences because what the product or group does that gives us an identity with the body. It has all the body images. That is that is processed Is 20 per year Tableau, this is well known. This is this is where our sense of looking at a mirror, we get want to get a sense of where we are in orientation about our body, all laptops from the party. So when that is suspended, what happens is that we lose the identity with the physical body. And we identify more with mind and feelings. And that's the out of the body experience, we are no longer identified with the physical body. And it is true that the parietal lobe we already have predicted that that peripheral luck shall be suspended when that experience happens. But to conclude from that the brain Razak now have a brain explanation of near death experience, this is completely false. Because there is no brain. This is not a brain explanation of near death experience, which also involves nonlocality that hovers over your own body being operated apart. That cannot be explained by material brain because material objects can never have gone local experiences by itself without the help of consciousness.
Alex Ferrari 26:11
In with near death experiences as well. I've spoken to doctors and researchers who have talked to 1000s, not only 1000s of near near death experiences in this country, overseas in Africa, in different cultures, and they're all different. They have similar themes, which is also interesting, how can how can we all kind of generally go through a life review, there's always generally a council of elders, there's might be there certain elements that are common and many of them. But then when you go into an aborigine who dies there, they're completely different, but have similar themes, but are presented in a different manner. How is it because if it was supposed to be a human thing, then all of us would just go back to the same programming? And we're like, okay, we all see the tunnel of light. Okay, we all go down the path, correct?
Amit Goswami 27:07
Yes, so so this this near death experience, some of the memories come from the humanity's collective memory called collective unconscious. That's the explanation of why they are similar, but not exactly similar. They're described in terms of different images. The measure is different. But the idea is the same. For example, you see your kids, that idea is the same. What canes depends on the culture, you see a spiritual teacher, they can depends on the culture, their Western culture, they would see pictures like Jesus in Indian culture, they will see God except for Cuba. So with it, it's and that makes it very clear that the images themselves that we are seeing is not relevant, but what's behind the images, the ones that are present, that is the same. So Collective Unconscious is a construct concept that Carl Jung developed, that we now have so much evidence that we cannot deny it. The explanation of the similarity?
Alex Ferrari 28:14
Well, I mean, even the concept of collective unconscious is non local, it is,
Amit Goswami 28:20
Of course, always non local. So we weren't connected people at one time, we were connected before we became rational, it everybody more or less advises that we are employed, we are hunters and gatherers, there was no rational mind, mind was very physical. At the later stages of the hunters and gatherers era. Now people acknowledge that there was a phase in which garden agriculture was available, men and women work together in the garden with simple instruments, like a hoe was paid, in that Teasle families developed and will have developed, and therefore we are also very connected. We can non-local with each other. That's now we call it tribal consciousness. But actually, it's much deeper than that. It's very deep non local connections that we have with each other. And that is how we build the collective unconscious when you are not locally connected, if you have a memory, I will also have easy access to that memory, because we are connected known locally. So your memory and my memory will be simultaneously may have the same experience.
Alex Ferrari 29:30
And again, not that is not in materialism at all it lives in. It's beyond that.
Amit Goswami 29:39
Yeah, we miss it. No two people can be connected without signals. Only
Alex Ferrari 29:46
Because they're sticking only in the physical space and time. That makes so much more sense now so when you go beyond space and time, and this where this quantum entanglement and things like that go, Well, let me ask you this then how quantum and physics explain oneness, this concept of oneness, which is seems to be awakening in society now that we're all connected in one way, shape or form.
Amit Goswami 30:11
Yeah. So the explanation is that two levels. One is that oneness itself reflects a nonlocality. And why don't you explain? Experience nonlocality in our ordinary consciousness because we get conditioned from our memory. The experiences don't come to us directly. Because of this conditioning, we could, and occasionally tap those experiences to call by special names like creative experiences or intuition. But ordinary experience comes from a state of consciousness that we call the ego. That is an added suffocation with our personal memories, our personal history. So this ego has obviously much more constricted than we are capable of nonlocality, oneness. The ego is not one anymore. It's it's detached from that oneness. This is what causes the problem. So we have to go beyond the go, which requires in quantum sciences requires a discontinuous transition, quantum leap. Creativity is that quantum leap. Intuition is a small quantum leap. And this is the thing Quantum Leap requires. accepted, accepting mind. Quantum requires an open mind. And this is what the material is don't tap. If you are using your rest of my too much you lose that flexibility. You're not creative anymore, in that sense. Creative in the quantum sense.
Alex Ferrari 31:45
Well, let me ask you this, even Einstein, if I'm not mistaken, even Einstein played the violin to get ideas if I'm not mistaken. Correct. So yeah, he was he took quantum leaps within his work, correct?
Amit Goswami 31:59
Yes, yes. He took quantum leaps all the time. He was the greatest Quantum Leap persists for us outside experiences are concerned. There are bigger quantumly purrs, Jesus. They're examples, but they did not discover in the outside world. They're discovering their insight work, the nature of consciousness.
Alex Ferrari 32:17
Can you explain them? Can the materialist explain creativity?
Amit Goswami 32:21
Well, they don't. But they sidetrack issue by confusing creativity to them. creativity happens because of a reshuffle of the existing knowledge in the brain. So for them, the purpose is beautiful. In a way Alex, look at this, this AI programs like chat team, they can be more creative than any human being if you accept the materialist definition of creativity. This is why people are really worried. You have seen this got a lot of publicity, Stephen Hawking before he died, he had this premonition that human beings are going to be overtaken by this AI, he really was super afraid, that human beings that that they are gone, machines are bound to take over because machines are much more creative than us, he was also tied to this definition of creativity, creativity is just an existing Resharper of all that is no, but a human being cannot possibly access the kind of access that these machines have this AI programs have already. So, this is the reason for that fear. But of course, for us, it is very simple, no commission can never be non local. Therefore, they cannot Intuit they cannot be creative in the quantum science, they cannot take creative leap to the non local domain. And therefore human beings will always be superior to a machine always be able to do things that a machine cannot talk. But the answer lies how we reach this non local domain most easily, we can reach it through the brain, we can make the brain to take a quantum leap as well. However, that is much more difficult because of our rational mind getting super mistake, but the heart is very easily Quantum. So we have to find our identity in the heart in order to discovered this quantum reality. And this is the problem. So in a way, realizing that we cannot be superior two dimensions is good for us. Because this is the end of the rational era if you stay with the rational mission to take over no question. So you have to find our intuitive and creative quantum domains in order to retain the supremacy of our machines.
Alex Ferrari 34:45
It because you're absolutely right it these AI that are being created and learning at astronomical speeds right now like chat GPT they are, they will have access to all knowledge. Everything that exists up to a certain time, they have access to more than you or I could ever possibly have access to. But yet, AI is not creating things out of thin air in the way that you are, I can create ideas
Amit Goswami 35:20
That we talked about, so they don't have access to potentiality. And this never discovered potentiality is to always be there because it's infinite. And so human beings will always be superior to machines, because we bring it down to machine availability, but only after we have done it creatively, then we can put it on the internet and machine will have access to that. But we always have access to the rest of it rest of the potentiality. But you look the trick of infinities, that infinity to minus infinity is still infinity. So that reality will always be there for human beings to explore, and machine can never recall us will always be steps ahead of machines.
Alex Ferrari 36:06
And that's because we are able to do things and connect with things in a quote unquote, spiritual space that a machine could never which is that love, a machine can't love. It doesn't have that potential
Amit Goswami 36:21
It's a lovely word, spiritual space. This domain of nonlocality is what? The spiritual space or heaven? is, that is it?
Alex Ferrari 36:34
Well from from the end, please correct me from the Vedic perspective, from the Vedic texts, which I've heard that many quantum physicists have read the Bhagavad Gita, and have gone deep into the Vedas, because they were talking about these concepts 1000s of years ago, 1000s When we were supposedly supposed to be hunter gatherers, but supposedly, you know better than I do, because that's not my culture. But I've studied the Indian culture and Hinduism and the Vedas. And as I've gone deeper and deeper to them, like they were talking about things, so I mean, so fastly far superior to what we even know now that even quantum physicists have I forgot who it was the father of the atomic bomb. Isaac, you know who I'm talking about? The guy who created the atomic bomb. He quoted the Hi, yes, exactly. He quoted the Bible with that. Can we talk a little bit about this because the non the nonlocality and potentiality of the Akashic Records, the idea of that? Can you talk a little bit about that and how that relates to quantum physics?
Amit Goswami 37:48
Yeah, they do, indeed, the Vedic researchers, and that's what they are. They don't have to be called mystics. They were researchers of consciousness. They had no material, savvy, material instruments like telescope was not available, so they could not study matter. But they could meditate. And they learn to meditate very, very well. Because when you don't have outside distraction, you only can look at inside you are a researcher, what you do you study as much as you can, what happens inside and the day with meditation with creativity. And they discovered this stretch of consciousness that we are now discovering and explaining. By the way, there is nothing in the vagus that quantum physics cannot explain. Quantum physics explains everything in the Vedas independent. This is the big power that we have uncovered. It took us 7000 years. But finally, we have understood consciousness as these researchers who are describing it. And not only that, some of us have, partially I don't claim to be enlightened by no means like Jesus or Buddha. But I do claim to have the experience of oneness. This is not as far out as people think. Now Abraham Maslow also described similar experiences. Carl Jung described similar experiences. So these experiences are not uncommon. They are quite common. In fact, my associate Valentino and his or my co author, she also has experienced nonlocality, oneness, so this oneness experience, if you have it, what it is, is that you experience yourself much bigger, much more loving, much more inclusive about others. What does that mean include my ability to include another in my consciousness is an expansion of my consciousness. Here I am only me and then introduced that's an expansion of my consciousness. I care for you as much as I care for me. That's an expansion of consciousness. And this expansion when we are able to do it to an infinite amount, those specific moments, in that moment of realization, I knew that I can love everyone. Not only that, that that ability to love everyone lasted for two entire days before he faded away. So leaving me no doubt that this is this is something very real I'm experiencing.
Alex Ferrari 40:28
And so, how did you get there? How did you get there?
Amit Goswami 40:31
I had to do a seven day meditation non stop meditation in all waking hours to get there. It's, it's not even to describe it. It's hard because, you know, how do you meditate every moment of the time. But what happens is part of it is unconscious part of its conscious, we call it a dooby dooby to process. But that's what happened. And I was tenacious I was determined that I'll do it as long as it takes. So on the seventh day of doing this, I went out of my office, that the university where I work, and there was Meadows just outside and was working on the trees in Oregon is beautiful. So had all of a sudden the world become one with experience that unless you have it, we'll never get the flavor of it. But that's the only way to describe it. I became one with everything.
Alex Ferrari 41:31
Let me ask you, do you believe that there's more people like yourself more quantum physicist and materialists who are starting to come over to this side, if you will, to start explaining things being accepting of these ideas, this new generation coming up?
Amit Goswami 41:49
There are no quantum physicists. Their hand is strapped, who just passed away very recently, he wrote a book which is very similar to mine. Case to blood also has written a book about Gods Professor Noah Ricard, I think. So there are quantum physicists. But there are many more from in transpersonal, psychology, Stan Grof, for example, or you may already have mentioned, a star god, that's an Italian great transpersonal psychologist already does show the rate. That's another transpersonal. Psychologist. So there are much more paper in psychology. much fewer people in quantum physics that has this kind of experiences, when you have these kinds of experiences. By the way, you mentioned near death. All those near death, people actually one moody who has researched it, they understand quantum physics perfect. So but then it is simpler. For people who are just rationalist to use mathematics all their life and cannot go beyond mathematics. It's very hard for them. So I have no grudge against anybody why they can't accept this. I only just pray for the opening up. People who are really creative can like teacher Fineman, towards the end of his life, he started going to SR Institute, one of the makers for consciousness research. So the two great ones so Feinstein was alive right now I'm sure he would get into consciousness research. So but the unfortunately today, people will give Nobel Prize to are of a different kind than in the olden days where people really were creative.
Alex Ferrari 43:36
Well, aren't there aren't and please correct me if I'm wrong? Haven't there been given Nobel prizes to theoretical physicist and quantum physicists as well?
Amit Goswami 43:46
They were, they were up to a point. But now, we give Nobel Prize too often or just experimenters who do just an experiment which is very limited in terms of its scope, although this year, this year, the Nobel Prize was given to the discoverer of nonlocality. Right, I thought so. Now, this is the this is an exception. Finally, after 40 years, we have given Nobel Prize to ask pay, and an Osprey who was instrumental for discovering nonlocality, 1980
Alex Ferrari 44:21
So them and let me ask you this, though, if that's the case, Nobel Prize is the ultimate prize in the world of physics. Doesn't that send a signal? It should help.
Amit Goswami 44:36
It should help. It should help but we need to go further because that there is still that barrier. Materialists can always say but the brain is macroscopic brain is high temperature or I have already proven that yes, the brain can indeed invoke consciousness and therefore can experience nonlocality. So consciousness you have to under Standard quantum measurement theory in the right way. But these arguments still are not accepted by the material this because they still continue to believe that there will be something new about the brain that we have not found yet that will convince everybody that this phenomena can be explained by the brain. Mr. Again, can you stop history because part of the part of what the brain does, they can create as a red herring like the example I gave you very low is dormant in the entity experience. Therefore shall we have found the material explanation because of this, we are having near death. That doesn't explain the entire near death experience, namely the nonlocality explicit nonlocality that they report they were able to see their own body operated upon how could they see that without proper quality,
Alex Ferrari 45:56
And verify and verifiable to because they could tell you tell the doctors what they were doing? And there's like, there's no way
Amit Goswami 46:03
They could find out from general considerations.
Alex Ferrari 46:06
Correct. So then then perfect example of what we're talking about is the placebo effect in the medical field. It's unexplainable. It is a spooky, and they can't grasp it because they only are stuck in the materialist world, worldly doctors in general. God bless them. Look, if I get shot, don't rub a leaf on me. Modern medicine is amazing. But there is other it can go beyond what the materialists look at, and the placebo effect is exact example of that.
Amit Goswami 46:38
Placebo effect is that clear cut example of mind over matter. But of course, even calling it placebo effect that try to let sophistry product perceived by effect when it's an anomaly, how the mind are really consciousness, we just use the word mind to confuse ourselves. The word mind is the mind is not conscious that mind is an aspect of consciousness. Consciousness usually uses the mind to give meaning to physical objects and other objects. consciousness goes beyond what matter and mind. This is the point. But the materialist confuses everything by using this Cartesian works. Descartes started mine this consciousness. And so we begin to say, okay, mind is always associated with the brain. And for Brian, it could be a membrane phenomenon. And that side, neuroscience dissolves. That's an example of, for example, we think and today we can move things by changing we can, we can make those currents amplify those currents and they can start moving objects or we can convert it into words that are spoken, we can convert our mental thoughts into words that a computer will speak. So in this way, we create a confusion that as if our mind is being created by our brain. But the point is, is the brain and mind that associated them nonlocality correlated, that does not mean that they are, one is being produced by the other. It's just an association, it does not have a causal connection does not mean that there is a causal connection, when produces the mind. But all this becomes red herring. And, you know, ordinary people doesn't have the time to engage with these issues enough to refute. And so, if you see 100 articles talking like this, and then one or two articles talking the opposite, where like we are doing right now, but right at the same time that your this interview will be broadcast, imagine 1000s upon 1000s of interview will be broadcast which have deepened the material is prejudiced. So we are just not being able to compete in that kind of way. The one way to compete, we are already doing it, I told you about this institution where we are giving masters and PhD degrees. And they are convinced because they are getting all the details. Any psychologist that comes to talk to me, in a matter of just two hours, I can start changing his worldview beginning. I'm not claiming that we're accurate state changes right away. In fact, miraculously changing right way is not the right way of teaching anywhere. But I will I will make it clear enough for them to realize that there is something definitely is just as the non idea of nonlocality.
Alex Ferrari 49:50
Well, I'll tell you what, though, from my point of view, I believe that there is more curiosity about these things now more than ever seen in my lifetime. And these conversations, plant seeds, that they might not flourish today, they buy flourish in a few years. But they're planting seeds. And I think that is the way that these great shifts happen. Because people will start, people are talking about quantum physics had parties, what 30 or 40 years ago that was academia only. Now is people talking about do you know about quantum entanglement? Or do you know about the split the split? The theory of it? Are these kinds of conversations on a YouTube show? These were things that were not talked about quantum physicists, we're not being brought on to shows to talk about theories. So people are interested. And I do think that is a shift happening. And I think we do have a fighting chance to shift out of this older, materialist industrial way of looking at our lives that are not serving us anymore. It served us for a while, but doesn't serve us now.
Amit Goswami 51:01
Yes, I completely agree with you. And that is the hope of the future, the new generation is going to make a huge difference. I find this all the time. You know, the last workshop, I'm in Brazil right now, we just finished a workshop on love. And the 16 year old showed up, which, of course, but but she showed up. And she was thriving with this concepts like nonlocality how love because of a strong locality is why it is so make such an impression on us. It really connects us with the other that we love. It forever gets rid of the idea that I am isolated. That loneliness that comes to in Newtonian individual is completely absent. For a quantum individual. Once you realize quantum physics, there is no role leanness for you.
Alex Ferrari 51:56
That's so true. Because the delusion is that we are separate the ego is created the delusion that we are separate. But once you understand you are bigger, a bigger part of a whole, that we are all connected. You don't think that depression goes down, loneliness goes down, I was talking to a neuroscientist the other day, who's been studying the brain, on faith, and on God for 30 years. And depression goes down, suicide goes down. You handle problems in life differently, not religion, just faith is judges that there's something bigger than you and that you're connected to it. That concept is extremely powerful,
Amit Goswami 52:35
And important. And this is the concept that modern materialist science has gotten rid of. And by doing that it is literally destroying our civilization. We seal identity with our environment anymore, we destroy the environment, because we don't feel identity anymore with our fellow human beings will read the news in Texas just this way. A neighbor was doing simple criticized by the neighbors and his brother has gone out and just kill people at random and run with this kind of thing would never happen with connected people with even connected for a moment. But how can people get so delineated sold separate, independent object, that without hesitation, the machine like think, Okay, I have a machine that can kill people when die melanated. So I'll kill these people and run away. So this is an extreme example of what materialism is doing to us. Of course, you know, what happens is that nobody says Oh, which is the worldview that happens all the change that happened six years ago that is causing all this, nobody makes that connection. And this is our people who do make this connection, their voices just get lost in the 1000s other voices, which don't make this connection. But of course, you are also right because the young people do here, young people do see connection. They do interpret, you know, the other news that is attracting everybody's attention that young women feel suicidal, so much one in five,
Alex Ferrari 54:14
Because of social media
Amit Goswami 54:16
Right! So people are aware that this is causing havoc with also our young people, so many young people feeling suicidal, so many young people feeling that they're lost without meaning and purpose. So we will say more and more of that occupy occupy and Wall Street, that kind of movement. Young people will bring that up and we will see changes. My feeling is that we will see changes.
Alex Ferrari 54:45
My friend, I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests because I can keep talking to you for hours. By the way. This is an endless conversation to say the least. But these are few questions ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Amit Goswami 54:59
Living I feel like fulfillment to me a satisfaction. Satisfaction is the kind of happiness and expansion of consciousness. So what we have to do in order to be fulfilled, we have to get the expansion of consciousness experience as frequently as you can during the waking hours. And three our unconscious enough to not even even have basically a good experience during our sleep because we do remember a little bit of it, we know where if we slept happily or we slept on happy, right. So this is the key. You know, I have developed with psychologist Sunita Papandreou scale of happiness, where we have actually shown that's pretty short word, meditation, creativity and all that really does create stage. So higher and higher happiness, people do develop this ability of having more and more satisfaction in their lives, more and more expansion of consciousness to include others. And then they can be free of physical disease, mental disease, not only that, they can start scaling the ladder of happiness.
Alex Ferrari 56:10
If you could go back and speak to your younger self go into a time machine, which we'll talk about physics. If we can go into a time machine and you could speak to your younger self, what advice would you give him?
Amit Goswami 56:21
Well, I would say that look, try to change your worldview as quickly as you can, because that will open you up towards how to live properly, I was living completely isolated as an intellectual before I was 37. And that time that intuition came, and ever since I gave up total dependence on intellectual theory, and that's really the key of everything. For intellectual person, there are other things that are also captured. So there are other kinds of ways to get drenched as well. But But intellectuals i being one myself, I know is a state to nowhere, because you really become disconnected from consciousness from love from your own body. And that is just such a unfortunate road towards loneliness and unhappiness. What can I say? Einstein towards the end of his life lammeter to his friend, you found one thing that I never found, which is love. Look at this person who is the greatest, most creative person we recognize, so far as our creativity is concerned, is acknowledging that I'm unhappy, I'm unhappy and I'm unhappy. And the lot of every materialist rationalist, no exception. How do you define God or source? Well, this is that unity consciousness that we're printing about a minute we can, we can get very confused by making God in terms of our images. But if we don't do that, if we try to accept the fact that okay, this better be very abstract, it better not be something that I can put in front of me and visualized, because it is afterall, the ground of all being. So let's not make history images, or if we make us the images, realize that this is only part of what God is only an archetype that leads us to what God is. So the best word we can find is really nonlocality. Non local oneness oneness without an exchange of signal,
Alex Ferrari 58:30
What and what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Amit Goswami 58:32
Okay, the ultimate purpose of life, therefore, is to follow these portions that God called archetypes, with values that that will lead us to God, namely, love, beauty, justice, truth, wholeness, of course, even power, even abundance. And those things are also part of that. But you have to combine power with love abundance with love. So love is a very crucial point that marks or makes us different. People can search for being rich without love. People can search for being powerful without love, like Putin. But if we combine it with love, then we can become a Tandy, we can become a Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. And then we become capable of loving people as well. And then we'll use our power to share power to empower people. And same thing with truth. If scientists combined truth with love, then they will explore truth to empower people not to become manipulators of people.
Alex Ferrari 59:38
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing?
Amit Goswami 59:41
Okay, this is a very, very good question, Amitgoswami.org. That's the website. So you just come to the website and everything that I've talked about is available on the website, Amitgoswami.org
Alex Ferrari 59:58
And we're and do you have any Final messages for the audience?
Amit Goswami 1:00:02
Yes. A final message is of course your path to oneness, the purpose of life, the meaning of life. Ask those questions. And if the answers come, it will come, it will be in form of one of those archetypes that I have mentioned. Follow that archetype. Believe what Joseph Campbell said, Follow your bliss. The archetypes are our bliss to follow. And then life becomes happy. As Alex asked me earlier, what gives us fulfillment is archetypes purpose to life gives us to feel that.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:35
Dr. Amit thank you so much for this conversation. I hope it is one of those seeds that has dropped and many minds around the world, my friend, I appreciate you and the amazing work you're doing so thank you, my friend.
Amit Goswami 1:00:47
Thank you.
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