I had the honor of speaking to renowned and New York Times best-selling author Whitley Strieber. He began his writing career with a pair of modern-Gothic horror novels, The Wolfen (1981) and The Hunger (1983), which was turned into a feature film by the late great filmmaker Tony Scott.
He is perhaps best known for the third phase of his career, which began with Communion (1989), an autobiographical account of his experiences with strange “visitors” who he says came to his cabin in the New York countryside. This #1 New York Times Non-Fiction Bestseller (on the list for 15 weeks) was also turned into a film starring Christopher Walken.
Whitley has written several other thrillers, and two novels about environmental apocalypse, Nature’s End and The Coming Global Superstorm. Superstorm served as an inspiration for Fox’s The Day After Tomorrow (2004), and Strieber later penned the novelization of that film.
“Hate is like coal, it burns out. Love is like heat, it doesn’t.” – The Master of the Key
In this episode, we will be discussing one of Whitley’s most profound books, The Key: A True Encounter.
This is the unsettling and ultimately enlightening narrative of what happened that night. Strieber was never really sure who this strange and knowing visitor was–a “Master of Wisdom”? A figure from a different realm of consciousness? A preternaturally intelligent being? He called him the Master of the Key. The one thing of which Strieber was certain is that both the man and the encounter were real.
The main concern of the Master of the Key is to save each of us from self-imprisonment. “Mankind is trapped,” the stranger tells Strieber. “I want to help you spring the trap.” In a sweeping exchange between Strieber and the stranger–which takes the form of a classical student- teacher dialogue in pursuit of inner understanding–the unknown man presents a lesson in human potential, esoteric psychology, and man’s fate. He illuminates why man has been caught in a cycle of repeat violence and self-destruction–and the slender, but very real, possibility for release.
In its breadth and intimacy, The Key is on par with contemporary metaphysical traditions, such as A Course in Miracles, or even with the dialogues of modern wisdom teachers, such as D.T. Suzuki and Carl Jung.
It was a pleasure speaking to Whitley. Enjoy!
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 004
Alex Ferrari 0:03
I'd like to welcome to the show Whitley Strieber. Man How you doing Whitley?
Whitley Strieber 0:07
Hi. Good to see you again.
Alex Ferrari 0:10
Good. Thank you so much for coming on the show I am. I mean, you are a prolific writer. I mean, as we were speaking about earlier, you've written 40 books or so in your career,
Whitley Strieber 0:21
probably more than that by now I am a busy boy.
Alex Ferrari 0:24
Exactly. You use the power of the pen or the typewriter, if you will, nowadays, or the word processor or computer at with great power. And, and there's so many different topics we could talk about. But in this conversation, I really wanted to focus on one of your books, called the key the true encounter, which I found fascinating. And, you know, when I was reading the book, just really profound stuff that was coming out of that book. So can you tell the audience a little bit about what the key to encounter is? And can you explain what happened in that night in the hotel room? .
Whitley Strieber 1:01
Sure. I was in room 2545, of the Delta Chelsea Hotel in Toronto. It was the last night of what would turn out to be the last official author tour of my life. I didn't know that at the time. And what happened was, excuse me. What happened was, I was in the hotel room, and I'd had a long day of interviews and pretty tired. So I'd ordered room service. And I had room service up there and lay back on the bed. And few minutes, what seemed like a few minutes, a knock came at the door. And I looked at the got up and on the little desk across the room, that room service tray was still sitting there. So I thought it was the room service waiter. I looked at my watch. And I realized it was two o'clock in the morning. And I thought I should I do this. But you know, I wanted to get rid of the tray. And so I opened the door and this man came in. He was about 5859, you know, not short, but not tall, either sort of average height, rather slight. You're on dark grey trousers and turtleneck as I recall. And he had white hair a very kind face an older face, I'd say he was in his 70s 60s or 70s. Or maybe older if he's one of those ages, sort of people that are around see. While he walked into the room immediately and walked over to the window and turned around standing there for in front of the closed window. curtains are closed, and the air conditioning thing. And by that time, I had realized I had a total stranger in my room and has nothing to do whatsoever with room service. So I moved to get him out. I thought to myself, this can't be good. This guy is here at in the middle of the night. I'm definitely need to get him out of here right away. So I started to move toward him. And he said, You're chained to the ground. And I said excuse me, and he said, I am here on behalf of the good. Please give me some time. Now. I at this point, I'm thinking it's a fan. He seems perfectly okay. But it's still a middle of the night. And so I'm still very uneasy, and I say who are the good thinking that he's gonna say at some cult group or something? I didn't know quite what he was gonna say. He says, Those whose lives are directed toward ascension. And I'm still not happy with this. I say You mean like religious types. Then he said the first thing that kind of stopped me. He said belief impedes release. The Ascension I refer to is a process of finding God within the universe without I mean, I'm quoting from the book, but this is these are quotes these I wouldn't say these are exact quotes because it was not until two years later that I actually wrote this down. It was all sitting in My head the whole time, but I was going back and forth. Did it happen? Did it not happen? Any I call Danny the next morning from the hotel and said, because I'm, I'm bad about deciding things didn't really happen that did, especially if there's high strangeness involved. Everybody's like that I'm not alone. At least I hope not. So I called her in the morning, and I said that this actually happened. And that she needed to, I needed to count on her to tell me to write this all down. And to end to not let myself convinced myself, me convinced myself that it didn't happen. And so anyway, back to what's happening here. He, after that, I said, when he says this thing about ascension and finding God within the universe without I then say, what does that mean? And he says, mankind is trapped. And I'm thinking, What in the world is this? And he said, that there were a couple of other things. And he said that the Holocaust was the important, most important event in the past 2000 years. And that sort of stopped me the Holocaust. We don't like to think about that very much. I don't I mean, I don't nobody does. I know about it. We all know about it. There are some people out there especially more lately. They are denying it. But it happened. All right. And it happened. Of course it did. And he said, then I said, the Holocaust is the most important event of the past 2000 years. He said, You were meant to have acquired the ability to leave the planet by now. But you were still trapped here. You may be irretrievably lost.
Alex Ferrari 7:17
This is a pretty this is pretty tough conversation to have at any time at night, especially. But especially at two o'clock in the morning from a stranger in your hotel room.
Whitley Strieber 7:26
Oh, right. But I'm being drawn into it by what he's saying. That's what I'm telling you. I mean, I never heard anything like that before in my life. I mean, it all cost. It's something that happened, the Germans went crazy. They killed all the Jews. It happened. The but I didn't think of it in terms of being a historical event with this terrible resonance in our own lives that he was describing. And then he says, and this has caused me a lot of trouble in certain circles, because there's lots of anti Semites around. I said, Why has the Holocaust prevented this from leaving the planet? I'm getting a little bit confrontational now. Because not only do I have this guy in my room, it's two o'clock in the morning. I'm nervous about this. But he's also really interesting. He's interesting, very interesting. So. So I say that, and he then says, it reduced the intelligence of the human species by killing too many of its most intellectually competent members. Well, you know, you could say that about any war, anything. I mean, wars kill good people. World War, one stripped us of the whole of the best of European civilization. And World War Two, kind of did it even worse, and yet, we all we survived. I mean, the civilization survived. Now, but then he gets more specific. See, he says that because of the Holocaust, it's why you're still using jet 75 years after their invention. Now, it's 100 years and we're still using them. So then he says, the sentence that stopped me and this meant that guy is going to stay, I'm not going to throw him out of this room. He says, the understanding of gravity is denied you because of the absence of a child, the child of a murdered Jewish couple. This child would have unlocked the secret of gravity, but he was not born because his parents went, the whole species must stay. And boy, I mean, you can find some really super anti Whitley Strieber stuff, especially lately. On a holocaust denier websites, because they they don't like to think about that. They don't like they don't want that to be true. This guy said so many other things that have turned out to be true. I think it is true. Go ahead.
Alex Ferrari 10:15
So you were you were writing about things because it because you were writing in the book that this this stranger was saying things that was kind of beyond the technology at the time. So when you were writing the book, you there were these technologies actually became true, like the gases. And a couple of them forgot something in regards to gases and artificial intelligence or something along those lines.
Whitley Strieber 10:40
Oh, yeah. There he was. He was, he was very into artificial intelligence. And talked about it a lot. And no, every single scientific claim that he made is coming true. I got the idea for the superstorm book. For two places. The first I met a guy who told me about a huge storm that had devastated Hawaii probably 10,000 20,000 years ago, and that you gave was so devastating that you could see places in certain cliffs where they had been gouged out open, gouged out by gigantic winds. So it was sort of in the back of my mind. And he proceeds to explain, you know, he might have known it was in the back of my mind, he was he was something very special. He proceeds to explain later on in the conversation, the mechanism behind climate change. And, you know, I listened to all of this. And when I went home, I didn't write the book down, but I did begin researching this. And I would just go deep into there was not a lot of research about this superstorm concept on the surface at all. But if you've got deep into papers into scientific papers, about the end of the last ice age, you began to see stuff that agreed basically with what he was saying. Weird, very scary things. And and then I read I found something else, which is haunted me ever since. There's a glaciologist I think he might still be with us named Blarney Thompson, who studied glaciers in the and Peruvian Andes. And he found at the bottoms of many of these glaciers, which were all about 5000 years old. plants that had been quick, Frozen, so fast that their their cells hadn't been destroyed, like frozen food is quick, Frozen, Frozen, in other words, in a matter of seconds. And now all these 1000s of years later, they're still at the bottom of glaciers. Well, what does that tell you? It tells you that the climate changed in non a day or a month or a year or an hour, but in seconds, it's seconds.
Alex Ferrari 13:40
Whitley Strieber 13:41
Yeah. And there are places in Alaska and in Russia, where there are some very strangely preserved animals that were what died with food still in their maths. Something happened. And here's another thing about this. The same time this was happening in our area. A man who was now known as bootsy The Iceman and was in the tea roll in the Stone Age and he was traveling through an Alpine meadow. When he was struck by an arrow and killed. He fell down and it began to snow. We found his body under that snow 5000 years later. In other words, he was in an Alpine meadow. He was killed, it starts snowing. The Snoke never melts again. It turns into a glacier. 5000 years later, it's just beginning to melt. What does this tell us? It tells us that something fundamentally changed on Earth's surface 5000 years ago, very suddenly and also going back 12,000 years when you see those quick frozen plants I mean and and animals. This happens, and this is the Genesis is why I began to think in terms of some kind of a phenomenal storm. And he had described, he had said that the Gulf Stream would stop flowing. And when it did, there would be a sudden and dramatic change in the climate. Now, right now, right now, the Gulf Stream is stopping flowing. And when it stops flowing, you're going to have all overnight, this unbelievable change in climate now. When I first published superstorm, which was based on the ideas and the key, and to an lesser extent on what I heard from the man, the man that I talked to in Hawaii when I published that I published it along with Art Bell, and we went out to on the hustings together with it, and we were just scorned. Matt Lauer the disgraced today show host, just sneered at a song today, the day show he was he was such a creep, but you know, he was a big star at the time. So it hurt our book bad. And people scoffed at the idea of the superstorm. Until a few years ago, another paper comes out. And this is a paper about the superstorm scenario written by something like 15 of the most important climatologists in the world. And it this paper lays out the fact that it does actually happen. Now, right now, as we are talking, there is a subtropical storm developing off the coast of South America in the Atlantic, one of the only two we've seen in the past 25 years. And there is every evidence that the that the Gulf Stream is weakening, it is highly likely that we're going to see more very powerful hurricanes. Now, we've already seen a devastating and very strange storm system that froze, Texas half the death and
Alex Ferrari 17:38
most of the country. It was like that it like literally took like 40% of the country. And it was reared weird. I mean, yeah.
Whitley Strieber 17:45
Very, very bizarre. Yeah, all it's happening. It's happening.
Alex Ferrari 17:52
So let me Alright, so let me ask you are so while you're talking to the stranger, there's a couple questions I wanted to ask you, because there's so many different topics that he covers in the book, and that you cover in the book? Can you Why, why? How can we overcome the crippling fear that controls most of us? In your opinion?
Whitley Strieber 18:20
Well, we have to do what we've done in the past and live past it in order to survive. The ancient Romans had experiences like that. And they their empire collapsed, their whole world collapse, not just their empire, but everything they understood about the world changed. And we're going to experience a lot of change, it's just going to happen that way. Life changes, nothing stays the same. But here's the issue in my mind. The question is, is it going to completely disrupt our world and cause a massive decline in population maybe a total decline? Or is it going to be something that we can where we can kind of hang on to things and and keep our world together? I don't know the answer that question. But right now I have my doubts. Because, you know, we just went through four years of pretending it wasn't it didn't exist and it wasn't true. And then prior to that the Obama administration was not very aggressive about it at all. It wasn't very important. Important to them. And back all the way to the Reagan years it was always denied by most administration's are the ones that didn't deny it more or less. ignored it.
Alex Ferrari 19:54
Yeah, remember, I remember that that Reagan took off the solar panels that Carter put up on the lighthouse.
Whitley Strieber 20:00
Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I have a, I have a, the sense that it's, it's at this point, it's really very sinful to do that. And because of another thing, the master of the key said, I grew up Catholic. And, of course, therefore, I'm terribly interested in sin.
Alex Ferrari 20:32
And you feel guilt and and you feel guilty about it, because I was also raised Catholic.
Whitley Strieber 20:38
The Catholic guilt trip, is it? Well, it's not all bad.
Alex Ferrari 20:44
Of course, of course,
Whitley Strieber 20:45
of what what was good about the Catholic guilt trip when I was a kid is, I have never to this day, it tasted food, as good as the hot dogs that I used to eat on the sly on Fridays fish day. And in our diet, I Archbishop was very strict. And as far as he was concerned, if you violated and ate meat on Friday, you had committed a mortal sin. So I sneak off to this hotdog stand on Fridays. And I tell you this right now, biting into one of those hot dogs was just wonderful. And knowing that now, the Mall of Hell has opened up below me, should I die? I go down and down.
Alex Ferrari 21:32
Yeah, I've always found that an issue like so you can murder someone or eat a hotdog on Friday? Yeah. And it's it's so according to you, sir. You, according to you, our Bishop, that that's the same, something fundamentally are there problems at all
Whitley Strieber 21:49
archdiocese and diocese. Some work not nearly as strict but ours, Archbishop Lucy was a great friend of my grandfather. And he used to come over to the house for dinner. And I played many practical jokes on him. But in any case, that's neither here nor there. He was that that was my, my, that was that was the Catholic guilt trip as far as I was concerned.
Alex Ferrari 22:18
So why, in your opinion, do you think that humanity is so self destructive, because we are constantly destroying ourselves as a whole as a species, but yet also as individuals? You know, so many times we are just doing things that we know it's going to hurt us. Like, you know, you smoke, you drink, you eat the wrong things, you don't do the thing you do things that you know, is, you know, consciously it's going to hurt you, but yet you continue to do it. Why are we so self destructive? Why are we programmed that way? Well,
Whitley Strieber 22:59
one of the things that interesting things that happened when I was writing the book, a new world last year, and not in 2019, rather, that I begun being able to write my books with with a lot of direct communication with other levels of reality. I mean, call them the dead or aliens or whatever they are, I'm not really sure. But they're, they're all right in, they're real. And they do they, I am able to work with them. And one of the things that was pointed out to me was that all of this is actually not our fault. What denying it is wrong. And like, as I was getting ready to say about the master of the key, his definition of sin is denial of the right to thrive. And that, to me, is the best definition I've ever heard. Because if you, you, you pretend that global warming isn't happening, you're denying uncounted millions of people the right to thrive in the future, builds billions you are weighing yourself down with a very evil thing. When you do that, or when you're passive or when you vote for somebody who who, who believes that any of that it's it's it's all denial of the right to thrive. But so in the in a new world, I was very curious about, you know, who is to blame for what's happening and the visitors response was, it's your design you were you were designed and you came out. I mean, either somebody designed us effectively if we were tampered with in the past, which I think is a very definite possibility or nature. Something, something went wrong in nature. And the reason is, we have no season out sexual seasonality, we're always ready at all times. We're not like other animals, which are only ready you know, a few few months of the year. We have, we're naked, we have big, prominent genitals and sex, sexual organs, breasts and, and male genitalia and so forth. very prominent. And we have excellent minds and big memories, very vivid memories. You combine all of that together, and you're going to get us sex maniacs species, just like we are compared to the others. We're always add it here. And human beings are the most sexy creatures on the planet. And that's why it's overpopulated. It's a design flaw. You see that when they said it was not, it's just the way you were designed. And if it was somebody who did this to us, then they want us to experience the upheaval that's coming. But or they made a mistake. Nature, then nature made a mistake.
Alex Ferrari 26:21
And I mean, the platypus is a perfect example of a mistake. But joking.
Whitley Strieber 26:28
We're not platypus is We're here. We're concerned, we got all kinds of beautiful children.
Alex Ferrari 26:35
Oh, my God, he's
Whitley Strieber 26:36
got grandkids I adore and, you know, you got all his human beauty in the world. Wonderful minds everywhere. A beautiful home beautiful art music. No,
Alex Ferrari 26:53
no, this the stuff that we can create, that mankind can create is remarkable. I mean, it's absolutely remarkable the beauty that we can create, one of the things that the master of the key, as you call him, said, What I found was such a profound, he said a bunch of things that were profound. But the one thing I found so profound was that we will drown in our own garbage in our own materialism. And I found that such an amazing metaphor, not even, it's not even a metaphor, it's the reality, we are literally drowning in our garbage. I mean, the oceans are being polluted at rates that we can't even comprehend. All this materialism and creation of product this is there is no other era, or time period in human history, where there was this kind of commune, commercialism or materialism where it's just consume, consume consume our entire economy, our entire world is wrapped around consumerism, if we don't consume, the world stops, like when we shut down the world for the pandemic last year, for a month, which was, I don't know how I would say, four to six weeks where literally, the world almost shut down completely other food and basic stuff. You saw, like, everything came to a grinding halt. And what are they? What are the powers that be want people to do once things go by? Go by? Go by?
Whitley Strieber 28:23
Yes, the only thing that keeps the engine Keep going, keep the engine keep the engine running. Yeah, but look at it this way. If the engine doesn't run, you got no food, you got your, your we're all broke. We have to the strangest thing about us and money in many ways is that we can't we can't live without passing these mysterious little pieces of paper to each other. And, and and and that's the way we give each other goods. There's something very strange about that. Very strange, which is
Alex Ferrari 29:00
essentially worthless paper. I mean, it's it's it's just it's like this post it this post it has the only difference between this posted and $100 bill in my pocket is that one has been given the power. And everyone agrees upon that that is worth something. This is everyone's
Whitley Strieber 29:18
currency. We all agree it's has value. But you know, people say well, we should go back to the gold standard. That would be an even greater catastrophe. Because there's not enough gold around to support the currencies.
Alex Ferrari 29:31
It would be 30. I think it was like 30 or 40,000 an ounce gold, if not starts to get into the $100,000 an ounce. Oh, it
Whitley Strieber 29:39
would be much more than that worldwide. I mean, if you think of just the United States, but if the whole world ends up going going back to gold as it would have to if the United States did, you'd see gold in a million dollars an ounce very quickly.
Alex Ferrari 29:52
Right and, you know, for whoever has an ounce of gold then probably a good thing. But, but you're right but that would be It would just be it's just a strange thing, but the whole people immerse all this in their chief. Oh, my God, they would Oh my god, it would be it would it would I can't even comprehend that, oh, oh my god, it would it really would be. But the materialism of meeting things needing physical objects going after things that, you know I was looking at that I was looking at the other day we had a we had a death in our family, she was 94, you know, she lived a long life. And you just at the end of it all, no matter what they have a cat, we get it, you can't do anything with it, it's it's essentially almost useless. The material stuff around you unless it actually provides a service to you, like your home, like your car, like the clothes you're wearing. These are things that you need to survive, but after a certain point, unless it has some sort of issue. And let's add something that really adds a tremendous amount of value to your life. It's it's just extra stuff that essentially essentially ends up owning you, as you move. When you move your stuff with you. We have to we have an entire industry of storage to store ours stuff that we don't even use. It's It's madness. It really is madness.
Whitley Strieber 31:19
Well, it is in a way and we were you know, it started. It started back in again in Roman times, because prior to that people did not have a lot of stuff. But then the Romans had the honors course, which were you you had to get. You had to a Roman aristocrat had to gain certain honors in his life in her life, and mostly is it was a male oriented society. And wealth was important. And these people afforded to absolutely enormous amounts of wealth. You know, we talked about there being too many billionaires in our world. And that's probably true. But in the Roman world, it was like more than 99% of the wealth was owned by under point oh 2% of the people. So it was just so unbelievably top heavy. But these people began to amass enormous amounts of wealth. And that continued that process continued because leaders began to need feel a need to express their power by the size of their palaces and fortresses and so forth. And that became a tradition in the Western world, not so much in the eastern world. But in the Western world, it well it did and then it kind of infected India when the British came, and soon the the Maharajas, we're all competing with each other to build the most beautiful possible palace. And the people were left sleeping half naked under bridges. And so that that has that's, it's the nature, it's part of human nature. Now, in this incredibly wealthy society we have in the Western world, everybody, to some extent, can do a little of it, and we love it. We love it, we're addicted to it.
Alex Ferrari 33:33
That's the term addicted, addicted, it's
Whitley Strieber 33:35
addiction material. World is an addiction. I mean, I'm sitting here in a room full of beautiful books and all kinds of paintings that Annie acquired, and I'm, I would not trust myself to acquire paintings that we have one painting in the house that I thought when I bought that painting has lost so much value actually, that you can feed it dollars and they just disappear.
Alex Ferrari 34:06
It's a black hole, if you will. It's like,
Whitley Strieber 34:09
oh, exactly. He hated it from the very beginning. And, and but she let me, let me keep it up. All of her paintings. I gave all of her paintings to the kids, my kids couple of years ago, but anyway, I've I've still got some of it here. And it's beautiful stuff. And I love being around it. And that's just the nature of man, this human nature.
Alex Ferrari 34:33
Let me just again, if it's stuff that provides value to your life, your everyday life I get but there's some stuff like and it only happens really when you move. When you're like, you know, I've been carrying around this thing for I'm now old enough to know that I live like I've been carrying stuff around for 20 years. And in the case of the one day I might need it. That whole mentality of like one day I might need it and the one day I might need it. Never comes and if it does come, you go, could I just if I really needed that could I've just bought it again, instead of lugging it around with me cost of housing it. And it's it's pretty, it's pretty remarkable. But I also wanted to there was another thing that the master key said, which was really, again profound was the connection between the three great teachers, Christ, Buddha and Muhammad. Yeah, and the different the different energies that each of them have. Can you explain that a bit?
Whitley Strieber 35:37
Yeah, that's one of the most fascinating parts of it, he viewed the those three religions as all of a piece that they were each a piece of something larger. That and it was in terms of three different forces, that the, the active force was Islam, because it is very expansive, and very missionary, much more so than the other two, the passive force was Buddhism. And the reconciling force that balances the two, is Christianity, Jesus's teaching. And it's a very interesting way of looking at a much larger picture of religion than we ever look at, because we look at it at them from within our religion, we're all believers by nature, and used to say, the human species is too young to have beliefs, what we need are good questions. And that that's very true. And, but but we have beliefs. And so if you're a Christian, you can't you're not interested in Buddhism, or if you're Muslim, it's even wrong, in some cases, to even study the other religions. And if you're a Buddhist, you, you don't think that the Christians and the Muslims have much of any value to say, but it's not true. All three of them have great value, he was right about that. And if you look at them in the context of each other, if you look at Christianity through Muslim eyes, or Buddhist eyes, you see a whole different set of values there. And it works just as well, for the other two, looking through the the, the the eyes of Christianity, you see, at Buddhism and Islam, you see a very different set of values there. And I now I don't mean that, you know, the believer, eyes, which reject or that's a rejection. No, I reject that. Because it's not that's Buddha, not Jesus. But a different eye. An open eye, suddenly, you find real wisdom of a whole new kind. It's a very, very powerful statement in the key, I'm glad you brought it up. Most people don't think twice about it, but it's really powerful.
Alex Ferrari 38:11
No, it's extremely powerful. And he also said in there, there's like, that I forgot what the specifics was that, that in in Islam, you give yourself to God, Inc, I forgot what the Christianity is. But within Buddhism, you look inside of you for it within meditation and that kind of energy. But I forgot what the Christianity was another thing that the Christianity kind of another energy, which was three full different energies. And when he said that, when I heard that I was just like, that is so profound, because I mean, I think the era that we're in, and I think it probably started, arguably, in the, in the 20s and 30s, when, you know, people like Yogananda came over and started showing, you know, teaching people about yoga and meditation and those kind of elements. That's when the concept of inter in the West, at least, of looking inward for God, and looking within yourself for the answers began in the West. They had been in the East for probably a few 1000 years. We know Yogi's and those kind of things. But But I think now, meditations a thing that is not because I mean, I'm old enough to remember when meditation was like, You're weird. My mother meditated in the 70s. And my my in laws or her in laws, looked at her like, she is crazy. It's so and I come from a Latino background. So it was completely foreign thing to them, where now there are apps, and everyone now understands the science of meditation. And if you want to just look at it, from the physical standpoint, what it does to your physiology, how it is and there's things that there's still can Have you explained in regards to meditation and the benefits of meditation and looking inward? But I just found it. Do you remember the other what Christianity was? And as far as
Whitley Strieber 40:10
Yeah, but before we go there, I'd like to talk about just a little bit about Hinduism, which he says yes, things about correct. He says that big in this is really one of the ones he's wonderful sentences, the gods of the Hindus are structures of personality purified into their essential meaning. You know, I, I see a sentence like that, I think to myself, how dare you worry about whether or not this guy is really you? You can't say that? What are you putting yourself up on a pedestal, I didn't say I never would have ever thought of a thing like that. But it's incredibly brilliant. He says, Hinduism is the path of soul knowledge for knowledge of the gods is knowledge of the soul, the great systems of self knowledge, where the Egyptian religion and Hinduism, no amount of scientific knowledge of the unconscious will provide as much food for the energetic body as true relationship with the Hindu gods. Isn't that
Alex Ferrari 41:15
incredible? I mean, it's a remarkable Yeah, I remember listening to that, as well. I was like, Wow, that is. And to a certain extent, you could look at the gods of ancient Greece, and all the different personalities there, and how you kind of, you know, they're all reflections of humanity, which I always found fascinating about Greek mythology, but also the gods of Hinduism, and how that, yeah, has been brought together,
Whitley Strieber 41:42
they're actually elements of the personality of the, of the of the being,
Alex Ferrari 41:47
Whitley Strieber 41:50
a part of every one of us. And suddenly, this religion that seems so very foreign to us in the West, comes to vivid life if you start to see what they really are. And the other thing that you were asking about though, he says, seek the kingdom as a Christian, give yourself to God as a Muslim, right? Find your new companion in the dynamic silence of Buddhist meditation. In other words, you seek God, through the teachings of Muhammad, you move toward the kingdom, which is the the kingdom of love. It's the kingdom of the five, the in the Gospel of Thomas, there are the five trees in paradise. And the number five, Jesus's teaching is actually all about sacred numbers, but we don't see it that way anymore at all. We've literalized it and debased it, sadly, but in any case, the number five was in the Egyptian system and in the Pythagorean system considered the number of love because it's, it adds up the number of man of the male, which is three, and the number of the female which is two, and that becomes five. And so it's actually the number of love. And when he when he says when the, the master of the key says, seek the kingdom as a Christian, he's saying, live out of love, live in love. That's what he's saying. I did not know that at this time. I knew nothing about the Gospel of Thomas at the time. And I knew nothing whatsoever about the number five and Pythagoras is elucidation of it in the context of his knowledge of Egyptian Egyptian secret. So I didn't know any of that. And
Whitley Strieber 44:11
but, you know, I'd say this document that the book The key is filled with depth like that, that I did not know about when I was even putting it down on paper.
Alex Ferrari 44:25
One of the one statement that he said that I actually wrote down because it was so so wonderful, a wonderful quote, which was that hate is like coal. It has an end But love is like heat. It does not. And I just was like, Oh, so beautiful.
Whitley Strieber 44:41
Yeah, and it happens to be true.
Alex Ferrari 44:43
It's absolutely true. Because hate does disappear. Hey, oh, Hey, kid disappeared, but love just goes.
Whitley Strieber 44:50
Well, yeah, well, he's he viewed evil as being entropic. That is to say, it, it's like, it's like Absolute Zero, it comes to an end. There's no, there's ultimately nothing left there. It's,
Alex Ferrari 45:09
it burns itself out, it burns itself out, burns itself out.
Whitley Strieber 45:11
And but love burns forever. It goes on and on and on,
Alex Ferrari 45:16
through generations upon generations upon generations about
Whitley Strieber 45:19
it just doesn't stop. But But hey, we live in, in, in a universe that's on a journey into ecstasy. And I don't mean sexual ecstasy only but that's part of it.
Alex Ferrari 45:30
No, of course, of course now, do you? I just this is a very profound question. What is your definition of the soul? Because the show was called next level soul. So you know, we're trying to take the soul to that next level with what I'm trying to do in this world. So what is your definition of it?
Whitley Strieber 45:53
Well, I would like to talk in terms of a system as I see it. And this doesn't come so much from the key as it does from the pyramid text in the temple of buenas the in the pyramid of Uno's in Egypt. This text is the oldest religious text in the world. But I think it's something else. I think it is not the first religious texts so much as it is the last text of soul science, of a repeatable science of the soul. I think we had such a science long ago, because you know, this text is 3000 years old. And if you look at it, and you look at the ideas in it, they're highly sophisticated, highly developed ideas. That wasn't the first that that that is the end product of a long evolution of thought and observation. And basically, what it sees in terms of the human structure is, there is a physical body, it is constantly flowing impressions into the spine, which accelerates them. In it the view, Egyptians viewed them as a column of it is a column of light. And these impressions of life are accelerated in this column of light, and then fed through an electric body, the second body, into the soul, the soul, the active part of this triad is the physical body, and the personality moving through time. The passive part of it is the soul, which is outside of time, and which has generated many bodies. And I wouldn't be surprised if souls don't generate more than one body at a time sometimes. But this is, this is very passive. And you talk about meditation, real meditation is about in engaging the body and the soul in a new way. And that's done through this other body, the second body, when you go out of your body, which I happens to me every once in a while. You're not in your, that's not your soul, that's your second body. That's the part that's absorbing everything from this life. The soul is it and it's and transmitting it to the to the soul and the soul is absorbing this and in the Egyptian belief. Once the body was dead, and the soul had absorbed all it could have the life. It was then at a point where it would weigh itself against the 42 negative undertakings of the what were known as the laws of MMA, and if you had lived a good life, you would ascend. And, you know, I had a personal experience of the degree of detail that is actually hidden inside us. years ago, I believe was 1987 or 88. And February. I got a call. I was in the cabin in upstate New York. And it was a weekend and there was a sound outside like a like a bugle blowing a very haunting sound and I knew what it was immediately it was the visitors and they were calling me. So I just about 630 in the morning, just barely light and I jumped out of a bad grip put through on my slippers and robe. and ran outside. And I could hear this sound because they the little ships they have, when they're idling, they make a funny sound like a clinking noise almost. And I could hear that sound and out beyond the little woods that was, was beside our house, our cabin. And so I thought, oh my god, they're down in the clearing the place where they'd originally taken me up. And so I went out out across our deck and onto a little hill. And I could see through the winter naked woods that they were there was a something there. And I could see some figures around. And I hesitated because I thought, well, if I go down there, and they don't let me come back, what happens to an and my boy, or child, what happens to them.
Whitley Strieber 50:53
And then I heard in my mind, this voice say, Come on, come on. real rough voice. And I thought, maybe that's not what I want to do here. Maybe I'm not gonna go down there. So I turned back to the house. And the minute I put my hand on the doorknob of the door to go back in the house, there were three cries above the woods that were the remain To this day, the strangest sounds I've ever heard. They were so precision that they they were unbelievable to hear. The precision in them was uncanny. But at the same time with this ultra super machine like precision of tone of tonality and separation. There was incredible emotional depth, they were the most moving sounds I've ever heard old. So I went into the house anyway. And I was sitting on the bed side. And there was something was in the house in the bedroom with me that I could not see. And the next thing I knew, I was suddenly walking around in this strange space with these tall, thin, what looked like wooden columns. And I kind of was gliding along. And I thought what the heck has happened to me. And then I recognized one of the things in the room. It was my mother's desk from my baby hood from from her bedroom when I was a little boy. And I had been taken back to the moment I first walked. And it was as if I was inside my baby body. With my adult mind, it was completely seamless. And after we die, this is how our lives will look to us in every detail. Now, I didn't answer your question directly about the soul. But I've answered it enough indirectly about the process. That is that life feeds the soul. And why it is so important that we feed it good food.
Alex Ferrari 53:16
Good. That's so that's the experience of what we what we call living the experience of coming to this to this law, you know, field of existence as as human beings, right and experiencing it through different, different, you know, adventures, if you will, you know, being a male being a male, in a white male in the United States in 2020 is a lot different than you experiencing life as a Jew during the Holocaust. Like that's two very different experiences or you know, as a slave as it's essentially different. So but all of those experiences are what feed the soul and the one thing I found was interesting too about the book about the the master of the key he also said that there is this is so controversial. I think too many people is that evil and good is that doesn't really matter. There is no true evil, there's no really true good. It's just it is what it is. And I know that's hard to wrap our heads around and I've heard that and by the way, he's not the first to say that. That is something that you know, religious masters have said for you know, for many years and generations. Exactly. So but it is still a difficult concept because we use like oh if there's evil in the world and like Yeah, but I don't know I it's just a concept I didn't know if you wanted to kind of dive into a little bit. Well,
Whitley Strieber 54:57
he wants us to look at it objectively. Rather than subjectively. And subjectively, we look at it as something that's wrong and that, that we should have, we should not allow, objectively, we see it in terms of the inevitabilities of life. And you will find that nobody except a crazy person wants to do evil or believes they are doing evil at any time. Those SS officers thought they were doing good, they thought they were helping the world. If some of them even after the war, were even. They were surprised at how angry the world was at them, they thought that they had done everybody a good turn
Alex Ferrari 55:59
well is because everybody is the hero of their own story. To be able to sleep at night, you have to be the hero of your own story.
Whitley Strieber 56:07
Now, the he does not he just he, he he, he has more than one vision of evil. I mean, he says, make no mistake, the people can become so heavy that they sink into the earth. Just as the energetic body can enjoy extraordinary pleasure, it can suffer excruciating pain. You have in your body, a few million nerves, but in your energetic body, every tiny bit of being can experience the totality of ecstasy or agony. So, you know, you gotta be aware of that.
Alex Ferrari 56:53
That's pretty heavy statement. It's a pretty heavy statement. Do you believe? Do you believe that we're going to destroy ourselves? Is there any hope for us as a species?
Whitley Strieber 57:07
We will go through a significant upheaval on planet Earth. It's already gonna it's gonna have starting
Alex Ferrari 57:15
Whitley Strieber 57:16
Right? It's already well underway. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it is not. It is not going to it's not going to go away. And how many of us will come out on the other side? And what condition we will be in? I don't know the answers to those questions. I'm not sure. I don't think it's going to be like it is now I think there are going to be many fewer human beings on the planet soon. For the simple reason that you set it yourself for the planet is filling up. And we are going to go through die back of the species. And you can see in the history of the planet. This happens all the time. It's nothing new, and it's just part of Earth's life, then we're part of Earth's life, too. Now, there is one thing though, that's a kind of wild card. It's the human mind. And I think that it's quite likely that this will get out of way out of hand before it gets better. But that we will save ourselves and we will save ourselves through the use of science, technology, and a new vision of mankind that starts with the soul, not with the body.
Alex Ferrari 58:48
There's one that I don't mean to interrupt. Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, there was one there was one thing that I remember that as you were speaking remember this comment where that when there are discoveries, there's things that we take for granted now. And we can perceive now that was essentially black magic 100 years ago.
Whitley Strieber 59:10
Alex Ferrari 59:12
there's just tons and tons of stuff. I mean, the internet and phones and and television and radio and flying. I love the flying quote that was in the book where he basically says that that the book The the Wright brothers, when they were flying, they actually flew and in the New York Times said that that's that that's fake that didn't really
Whitley Strieber 59:39
know the one of a very famous scientist in that time. A few months before they flew published a big paper saying, showing how heavier than air flight was impossible.
Alex Ferrari 59:52
Right. And we laugh about it now but at the time, it was almost it was just insane. They didn't think it was considered
Whitley Strieber 1:00:01
a miracle. And some people thought of it as demonic. Of course, they always are. Anything new is demonic. We love, we love the demonic. It's so entertaining.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:12
Right, exactly. Now, before we go, I wanted to talk to you about your new book, Jesus, the new vision, can you talk about a little bit about what caused you to write the book,
Whitley Strieber 1:00:21
what caused me to write the book is I am very deeply engaged in work with my wife, who is she may be physically dead, but she's still here. And that's why I wear both rings. And she is brilliant, and incredibly vivid presence, I work with others among the dead, I suppose, and possibly with entities of that aren't even human, there never have been, I don't know, this work takes place at a certain hour of the day. That in, in some yoga traditions is known as Brahma who heard the time, the time of creation, it is about an hour and a half to two hours before dawn. And I'm up at that time every, every morning, doing my meditation, which is what I call the sensing exercise, which I learned in the, in the gurdjieff Foundation back in the 70s. I've been doing it for more than 50 years now. And when I do it at that time, I get I become engaged with a level of creativity that's very powerful. And I listened to it. And it is directed me to write the three books I've written recently, after life rebel revolution, about my experience of rediscovering and an entirely new way after she died. A new world the story of the that is about understanding how to actually communicate with the visitors. And now Jesus a new vision, which is using the knowledge that comes to me from that level where there is essentially perfect knowledge of history. I was able to rewrite the story of Jesus in human terms. Yes, the resurrection happened. And yes, also he was human. And what it says, The resurrection says, it says about us and about what we are not that we can all die and come back as beings of light. But there is more to us. And his teaching, coming back to the five trees in Paradise is that union with the good leads to love. And as you were saying earlier, love is the most powerful form thing in the universe. And he said that we will not understand I asked her after she died. And one of the first questions I asked her was about gravity. Because I know that the that people in China, United States, Russia, France and England have known that there are ships around here that, that that function without gravity, that are gravitic. They have control over gravity. And she said we will never understand the gravity until we understand and can live by the fact that the universe is based on yearning, there is a great yearning that causes causes the universe to exist. As Annie was passing away as as she died and her soul left. A book flew open on our bookshelf. It's called physics from Fisher information and he was very familiar with it. And it through flew open to a page on which there was in yellow Mark marks a lot.
There was a phrase marked out the universe began as a single primordial quest for knowledge. And it is getting into touch with this level of consciousness. They will also bring us to the understanding we need to express mankind into the universe beyond and if we are to survive the upheaval that is coming. This is how we will do it. Right well Be because Elon Musk succeeds in sending 150 people to Mars, it will be because anybody can go. And we can find new worlds for ourselves. But it's not just science that it requires. We have to come to peace in ourselves and with our own souls, and with this universe, and all of this is not directly contained in Jesus in new vision. But it is a new vision of how to be a good human being, how to live as he lived, and why he lived that way. And why we should too and it's easy Believe me Don't you know read the book if you're going to try this read the book rather than the Gospels I read translated the Beatitudes, which are his basic moral code myself, it because they, the translations that we have are not adequate. So that's Jesus in Eurovision.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:07
Willie, thank you so much for your time and for the work that you do and trying to help souls around the world to go to the next level. So I do. Yeah, my friend.
Whitley Strieber 1:06:17
It's fun to wake up. Never think it's not.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:21
Thank you, my friend.
Whitley Strieber 1:06:23
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