Divine Encounters Episode 120 | Near-Death Experience Story
Lee Papa was a wife, a mother to a two-year-old, and a daughter caring for her elderly mother when she says she became so ill that her spirit lifted out of her body. In this Divine Encounters episode she tells Alex Ferrari what she says followed: a lightning-white light, two familiar beings who told her it was not her time, a review of her closest relationships, and a promise she made to stay for her son. She also describes the glow she says stayed with her for two weeks, and what it taught her about love.
Key Takeaways
- Lee says that before her experience she was married, raising a young son, caring for her mother, often ill, and seeking happiness outside herself.
- She describes years of upheaval: a move to Las Vegas, her husband’s serious car accident and his long struggle with chronic pain.
- Lee says that when she became very sick, she made sure her son was safe, and as soon as he was, her spirit lifted out of her body into light.
- She describes being “a sphere of light within the light,” in bliss and sweet relief, and meeting two light beings who felt familiar and safe.
- Lee says they told her it was not her time, and that she had free will to stay or go.
- She calls what followed “a relationship review,” in which her husband, mother and son washed over her with love and wisdom, and no regret.
- Her takeaways: no death, pure love, and no attachment. She says “You are everything that you need within you.”
| Guest | Lee Papa |
| Episode | Divine Encounters 120 |
| Life before | Married, with a two-year-old son and an elderly mother living with her; often ill and seeking happiness externally |
| What Lee says happened | She became very ill and alone, arranged care for her son, and her spirit left her body |
| Where she says she went | A space of brilliant white light, which she calls a tweener space |
| Who she met | Two light beings who felt familiar and safe |
| What she was shown | A relationship review of her husband, her mother and her son |
| The message | There is no death, only pure love and no attachment |
Who Is Lee Papa? A Seeker Who Was Always Ill
Lee describes herself as married, with a young child and an elderly mother living with her, “seeking my happiness externally.” She thinks a lot of us do that. She was ill all the time, she says, catching anything that came along. She was also unhappy, and did not quite realize it.
There was a missing part of her that she was trying to fill from outside. She says she has been “a seeker of things that were unknown” her whole life, as if she came in knowing there was something she needed to know. She once went to a Baptist funeral and thought it was a beautiful service, the way it held both the mourning and the celebration.
Moving Mom to Vegas
Her mother was from the East Coast, and she had a fall and spent about 45 minutes on the floor. Lee and her new husband, who are entrepreneurs, had more flexibility than her siblings, so after family meetings they decided that mom would move in with them.
They were living in Los Angeles, which was too expensive to continue, so a friend suggested Las Vegas. Lee and her husband were not sure at first, but there was no state income tax. For a woman who had spent more than 40 years in the same home, the move was huge. They tried to make it easier, she says, but there is only so much you can do. Mom struggled.
A Car Accident That Changed Everything
Within months of arriving in Vegas, Lee’s husband was in a major car accident. He was rear ended at a light, with nowhere to go. A once playful, easygoing, healthy and fit man changed in that moment, she says. He dealt with chronic pain, and they were in the middle of a lawsuit, which she says has nothing positive about it.
He journaled every bit of his pain, every day, for years. She feels that deepened and embedded the disability. They were struggling, and not sure they would make it, but they kept trying. He was dealing with his pain and trauma, she says, and she was dealing with her need to fix everything.
She had started to learn about Reiki, energy healing and crystals. For a while, she laughs, she was shoving crystals under the mattress on his side of the bed, hoping for a miracle. For more on those practices, see our glossary entries on energy healing and crystal healing.
The Silent Retreat and a Woman on a Mission
Her husband decided to attend a Vipassana meditation retreat: ten days of noble silence, no phone, no contact with the outside world. He traveled to Colorado for it. Just before he left, Lee was sick again and was not getting better. She wanted to heal on her own, with holistic approaches she had grown up with. He did not want to leave her like that, with no way to reach him, so she agreed to see a doctor.
After they said goodbye on the phone, she could not rest. She was a woman on a mission, she says, putting a security system in the house and not taking care of herself. A couple of short days later she went down, to what she calls the next level of down.
Alone and Drifting
She did not know what was happening with her son, who was two. Her elderly mother, who was always around, had vanished somehow. She was trying to call out in a whisper. She did not know when she last had water or when she last ate.
She felt herself drifting off, and yet her conscious mind was alert enough to say: you have to get someone to take care of your son. So she reached the phone and called a friend, her son’s godmother, who came and took care of him.
As soon as she knew he was okay, she says, her spirit left her body.
Lightning Strike White
She could feel it lifting outside of her body. With what she calls a beautiful release, she was in a space of light, the brightest and whitest light. “I describe it as lightning strike white,” she says. She had no body. “I was a sphere of light within the light.”
She notes the puzzle in it: if you are light, and you are in light, how do you know the difference? But there was a differentiation. It was bliss, she says. “It was just sweet relief.” Very quickly she understood that this was it, and that she could transition. She had no qualms about leaving the suit behind.
Two Light Beings and a Choice
Then she noticed two light beings off in the distance. Depth perception is an interesting thing, she says, when everything is light. She could see them coming toward her. They felt comfortable. They felt familiar but safe.
They spoke to her telepathically. “It is not my time, but I had free will to choose whether to stay or to go.” She says she felt like she was getting off a roller coaster. Woo hoo, an amazing ride, I’m done, let’s go on.
But the beings told her there were things to know before she decided.
A Relationship Review
“I call it a relationship review,” Lee says. It was not quite a life review. She did not see it physically; it was more visceral. The key relationships in her life washed over her, one by one. She would feel just extraordinary love, wisdom and knowledge from the experience, and then that person or that soul experience washed away, and the next one came.
She only really recalls three: her husband, her mother and her son. With her husband, she remembers that they were not in a good place. They did not even like each other at that point. And yet in this light, there was extraordinary love and wisdom. “No woulda, coulda, shoulda,” she says. No worry about what would happen when she was gone. She was simply grateful for the experience.
Her son came next, and it felt strategic, she says, as if the beings had a job to do. The love was softer and purer. She was so grateful to have experienced giving birth. For related context, see our glossary page on life review.
The Deal She Made
Even there, in what she calls a tweener space, before she went on what she calls the light train home, Lee made a deal. “I will go back and be this beautiful souls mom until he doesn’t need me anymore,” she told them, “and then I get to go when I want to go.” No long, drawn-out illnesses. When she gets to choose, she gets to go.
Then, she says, she was back in her body.
Sitting Up in a Beautiful World
Lee sat up in bed, bewildered. She had gone from nearly on her deathbed to almost completely better, alert and everything beautiful. Everything felt alive and vibrant, she says, as if it had a film on it, a residue that was different. She stared at the hinges on the door and the doorknob, in awe of how beautiful everything was. She had no idea how long she sat there.
She was calling it a fantasy of death, she says, because she did not know what else to call it. She reached out to her sister, who was studying metaphysics and meditation. Her sister, a big personality, listened in silence until Lee asked what she thought. Then, with great exuberance: “you had an exit opportunity.”
Lee reached out to a dear friend, Brenda, who was on her own spiritual path and who she says is now on the other side. Brenda guided her to a spiritual mentor in Houston. Lee left a voicemail, and the mentor called almost immediately. She told Lee, “It’s textbook,” and said to journal. She said the residue would dissipate slowly and be gone within two weeks. Lee says that to the day, she was right.
The first couple of days, Lee says, were pure bliss. No matter what was happening, it was beautiful.
Three Takeaways
Lee names her three main takeaways. First, there is no death. Second, there is pure love. Third, “there is no attachment on the other side, just pure love.”
That last one hit hard, she says, because she had been very attached. “I was a helicopter mom,” she explains, with her eyes on her child all the time, and attached to all her relationships and experiences. So the lesson of non-attachment alongside pure love was a big one.
She also learned: “You are everything that you need within you.” You do not need to look outside yourself for anything. And she believes “the ultimate purpose is to love, to exemplify love and to experience.” We chose to come here for an experience, she says, and that is different for everyone.
Where Her Account Sits Beside Other Near-Death Stories
Lee’s mentor called her experience textbook. Researchers have studied accounts like this for decades; in 1983, Bruce Greyson published the 16-item NDE Scale, a tool still used to describe what people report. What it all means is still debated. In Lee’s story, what stands out is the relationship review and the lasting, shimmering residue she describes for two weeks.
For the bigger picture, read our complete guide to near-death experiences and the glossary entry for near-death experience. We share accounts like Lee’s as experiences, in the person’s own words, and we do not make medical claims.
Questions to Sit With
- Lee spent years seeking happiness outside herself. What are you still waiting for something outside to give you?
- In her review, her marriage was strained, yet she felt only love and no regret. What relationship might you look at with softer eyes?
- She calls herself a helicopter mom and learned about non-attachment. Where could you hold something you love a little more lightly?
This week, take ten quiet minutes and write down three relationships that matter. Beside each, write one thing you are grateful for, with no editing and no wishing it were different.
Spiritual Takeaways
- Lee says there is no death, only pure love.
- She says there is no attachment on the other side.
- She describes a relationship review with love and wisdom, and no woulda, coulda, shoulda.
- She says you are everything that you need within you.
- She believes the ultimate purpose is to love, to exemplify love and to experience.
Please enjoy my conversation with Lee Papa.
Guest Links: Connect With Lee Papa
- Lee Papa’s official site
- Lee Papa on YouTube
- Lee Papa on Facebook
- Lee Papa on Instagram
- Full NDE story with Lee Papa
Listen to the Episode
- Watch this episode ad-free on Next Level Soul TV
- Download the MP3
- More episodes: Divine Encounters
- Listen to Divine Encounters on Apple Podcasts
- Listen to Divine Encounters on Spotify
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Lee Papa?
Lee Papa is a near-death experiencer, wife and mother who shares her story on Divine Encounters. She was an entrepreneur who was caring for her elderly mother and raising a two-year-old when she says her experience happened.
What happened to Lee Papa before her near-death experience?
She says she was sick and alone while her husband was away on a ten-day silent retreat. She arranged for her friend, her son’s godmother, to care for her son, and then felt her spirit leave her body.
What did Lee see?
She says she was in a space of the brightest, whitest light, which she calls lightning strike white. She had no body and felt like a sphere of light within the light.
Who did Lee meet?
She says two light beings came toward her. They felt familiar and safe, and they spoke to her telepathically.
What did the beings tell Lee?
She says they told her it was not her time, but that she had free will to choose whether to stay or to go. They also said there were things to know before she decided.
What is a relationship review?
Lee says it was not quite a life review. The key relationships in her life washed over her, one at a time, and she felt love and wisdom from each. She recalls her husband, her mother and her son.
What was the deal Lee made?
She says she promised to go back and be her son’s mom until he does not need her anymore, and then to go when she chooses. She says that means no long, drawn-out illness.
What was the residue?
Lee says everything looked alive and vibrant, as though covered by a film. A spiritual mentor in Houston told her to journal, and that it would dissipate within two weeks. She says it did.
What are Lee’s main takeaways?
There is no death, there is pure love, and there is no attachment on the other side. She also says you are everything that you need within you.
What is Lee’s view of life’s purpose?
She believes the ultimate purpose is to love, to exemplify love and to experience. She says we chose to come here for an experience, and that is different for each of us.
Is a near-death experience proof of an afterlife?
Next Level Soul shares near-death experiences as lived experiences told in the person’s own words. Researchers continue to study and debate what they mean. Nothing here is medical advice or a medical claim.
Keep Exploring
- The complete guide to near-death experiences
- What is a near-death experience? (glossary)
- Life review explained (glossary)
- Lorna Byrne on dying with her baby and being told to go back
- Karen Lorre on being asked one question that saved her life
- Jeffrey Olsen on being told to go back after losing his family
- Sheila Gillette on a divine meeting after giving birth
- Wendy Rose Williams on meeting her soul group
- Browse more free masterclasses and the Divine Encounters podcast.
Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:00
Tell me what your life was like before you died.
Lee Papa 0:08
I was married, had a young child, elderly mother living with me, and I was seeking my happiness externally. And I think a lot of us do that, and I was ill all the time. I was kind of had anything that came down the pike. I got it. And so I reinforced that by saying, you know, don't get near me. But the the key was that I was unhappy. And didn't really realize I was unhappy. There was some missing part of me that was trying to be filled externally. I realized that my whole life, I've been a seeker and a seeker of things that were unknown. It's like I came in knowing that there was something I needed to know. And so I did that for as long as I can remember, trying to make known the unknown. I would go to different services that, you know, I went to a Baptist funeral once, and I just thought, this is the way that you go, the go through the whole mourning process and then the celebration, like absolute, beautiful service. My elderly mother was really struggling, and she had fallen, and she was from the East Coast, and she, you know, spent 45 minutes on the floor kind of thing, right? And so my new husband and I, we just said, you know, something has to be done here. So family meetings, kind of situation, we decided she's going to move in with us. We're entrepreneurs. We had more flexibility than my siblings, and it was a big move. So we moved mom to Vegas. We ended up going to Vegas, which was kind of a funny side story, we were trying to figure out where to move away from LA because it was just too expensive for us to continue there and bring mom. So we were looking at different areas, and a friend of mine said, Why don't you try Las Vegas? And we were like, Las Vegas, not really Biden like no state income tax when we moved to Vegas. And mom, you know, as an elderly person, and spending, you know, 40 some years in the same home, that's a big move. And as much as we really tried to make that transition easier for her, there's only so much you can do that's just that was big. So mom struggled. So we were now with a young child and my elderly mom, and when we first moved to Vegas, within months, my husband was in a major car accident. He was rear ended at a light, you know, side note mourned my little 325, I convertible car. But the major thing that happened was that it really changed the trajectory of our lives. He saw this truck coming. He had nowhere to go, and it barreled into him at a standstill. So this once very playful, easy going, very healthy and fit, human changed in that moment. So he dealt with chronic pain. We were we were looking at this. This is a new chapter of our life, and it just really changed everything. And then we were in the middle of a lawsuit. And if anyone has been in a major lawsuit like that, it there's nothing positive about the process. And he ended up journaling every bit of his pain every single day for years, volumes. And so again, what does that do? That just deepens and embeds the disability. And so we were struggling and we were not going to make it, but we kept trying right this young family. And so he was dealing with his own pain and trauma, and I was dealing with my own need to fix everything. I was just starting this concept of understanding more about Reiki and energy healing and crystals. Fell in love with crystals. And for a minute, you know, I was shoving crystals underneath the mattress of my husband's side of the bed right thinking that miraculous thing was going to fix him. So he decided he was going to go on a Vipassana meditation. So 10 days, noble silence, he was going to go and really do this deep inner work. That was wonderful. You don't have a phone, you don't have any communication with the outside world. Once you go into this retreat, that's what it is for 10 days all inner work, total silence, meditation. Well, as he was getting ready to go, I was sick. Once again, I had some upper respiratory condition or something that was going and I wasn't getting better. And at that time, I was starting to really look at holistic approaches to wellness. I was raised in that bucked it for a while. Now it was coming full circle, and so I was didn't want to go to the doctor. I really was going to get well on my own. And he said, I really don't want you to leave you like this, right? If I'm gonna, if you can't contact me if something goes wrong. So I said, Okay, I'll go to the doctor. I'll get some antibiotics, which I did. And as I was leaving the doctor, he was saying goodbye. He had traveled to Colorado for this retreat. We said our goodbyes on the phone, and then I just couldn't leave it, right? I. Just couldn't rest. I had to get things done. And it's like I was just a woman on a mission. I was getting like, security system put in the house. I was, you know, I was not not taking care of myself. And then in a few, a couple of short days, I just went down. And then I again, just like this next level of down where I didn't know if I had I didn't know what was happening with my son. He was, you know, two at the time, my elderly mother, who was always around, somehow vanished. She was not to be found. I was kind of trying to call out in a whisper. I didn't know when the last time I had water. I didn't know the last time I had eaten, and so I felt myself drifting off, and yet my conscious mind was alert enough to say, you have to get someone to take care of your son, right? So I got the phone, I contacted my friend who is my son's godmother, and she came and took care of him. And as soon as I knew he was okay. My spirit left my body, and I could feel it lifting outside of my body. And with that beautiful release, I was in a space of light, the brightest and whitest of lights. I describe it as lightning strike white. And I didn't have a body. I was a sphere of light within the light, which is interesting, because you figure, you know if you're if you're light and you're in light, how do you know the difference? But there's, like, this differentiation of it. And it was just bliss. It was just sweet relief. And very quickly, I understood that this was this was it, and I could transition. And I had no qualms about leaving this suit behind, and then I noticed that there were these two light beings that were off in the distance. Again, depth perception is kind of a interesting thing when it's just all light. But I could see these two beings coming towards me, and it felt comfortable. They felt familiar, but safe. And as they got close to me, they spoke to me telepathically and said that, basically, it is not my time, but I had free will to choose whether to stay or to go. And I was like, going. I felt like it was, I was getting off of a roller coaster ride. You know, woo hoo. This was like an amazing ride. I'm done. Let's just go on. But what they said to me is that before I made this decision, there were things to know, and it wasn't quite a life review. I call it a relationship review. Whereas I didn't see physically, it was more visceral, and so the key relationships in my life would wash over me, and I would feel just the extraordinary love and wisdom and knowledge that I gleaned from the experience, and then that person would wash away, or that soul experience would wash away, and then the next one would come, and then I would have that experience. And I only really recall my husband, first, my mother, my husband and my son. So my husband came again, washing over and remembering that we were not in a good place. We really didn't even like each other at this point, and so we were just kind of getting through and yet, in this light, in this experience, just extraordinary love and the wisdom and the knowledge of the experience. No woulda, coulda, shoulda, not. You know what's gonna happen when I'm gone? Just grateful for the experience. And then as he washed away, my son came and felt like it was strategic and what they were doing, these beings felt like they had a job to do. The pureness of the love was just beyond and it was softer, softer and pure. I was just so grateful to have the experience of birthing. And my son was only two years old. So even on the other side, or this tweener space, as I call it, before I actually was, you know, going on the light train home, I made a deal, and I said, I will go back and be this beautiful souls mom until he doesn't need me anymore, and then I get to go when I want to go. And so no long drawn out illnesses, but when I get to choose, I get to go and boom, I was back in my body. And I sat up and went, what the expletive just happened to me? Because I didn't know I was calling it a fantasy of death. I went from being, you know, kind of on my deathbed to being almost completely better, sitting up alert and everything was beautiful. Everything had just like a film on it, a residue on it that was just different. Everything felt alive and vibrant and beautiful. I don't know how long I was sitting in my bed looking at these inanimate objects in my room, from the hinges on the door to the doorknob, in just awe of how beautiful everything was, and I was like, I need to get some help. What's this going on? I reached out to my sister at the time was studying metaphysics and meditation, and I joke in the book, because. She's a Leo, and she's very, very big personality, and she was silent while I just detailed everything of what happened, until I was like, So what do you think? And she was very exuberant, and she's like, you had an exit opportunity, and you know, that's so amazing, and people don't always remember them, but you know, there's a reason, and it was just a little too much exuberance of coming straight back. I was trying to understand again. I was calling it a fantasy of death, so I didn't know. So then, and I have no idea how much time I was there, or even after how long I sat in my room staring at everything, but I was still in bed when I contacted my sister and then reached out to my dear friend who was on her spiritual path, Brenda, I can feel her now because she's on the other side. She guided me to her spiritual mentor from Houston, Texas, and I reached out to her, left her a voicemail, and she contacted me like almost immediately, and she said, Tell me. And I told her exactly what happened. And she said, near death experience. She said, It's textbook. She said, Do you feel this way? Did this happen? And I was like, Yes, I feel this residue. Well, I mean, she's the one that gave me the term residue. And she said, journal. She said, it will start to dissipate slowly, slowly, and within two weeks it'll be gone. And boy, to the day, she was right on, and so that first couple of days was just pure bliss. No matter what it was that was happening, it was just beautiful. So the three main things were, my takeaway was that there is no attachment on the other side, just pure love. So there's no death, pure love and no attachment. Now coming from a person that was very attached previous to this. I mean, I was a helicopter mom, and anyone that doesn't know that term, you know you were on that child, yeah, right, and not on a lead, but just definitely eyes on to this child all the time, and very attached, very attached to all my relationships and all my experiences. So this was very much a lesson for me of this feeling of non attachment but pure love. You are everything that you need within you. You don't need to look outside yourself for anything. I believe the ultimate purpose is to love, to exemplify love and to experience. I go back to that because we chose to come here For an experience, and that's different for everyone.
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