Profound Near Death Experience with Lee Papa

Lee Papa 0:00
I made a deal, and I said, I will go back and be this beautiful soul's mom until he doesn't need me anymore. That next morning, I woke up and half my face was paralyzed. I didn't know when the last time I had water. I didn't know the last time I had eaten. I could feel it lifting outside of my body. What if our near death experience is, what our belief is?

Alex Ferrari 0:24
Don't attach yourself to worldly things, because that's one of the causes of suffering. But you had that on the other side.

Lee Papa 0:31
Life is supposed to be contrast, so that we can learn from the contrast and bring back that wisdom and knowledge into our soul experience. The three main things were, my takeaway was that there is no attachment on the other side.

Alex Ferrari 0:55
I like to welcome to the show Lee Papa, how you doing Lee?

Lee Papa 0:58
I am so well. Thank you for having me.

Alex Ferrari 1:00
Thank you so much for coming down the next little studios. I appreciate it.

Lee Papa 1:03
It's beautiful here.

Alex Ferrari 1:04
Yeah, you're enjoying Austin?

Lee Papa 1:05
Oh, well, for the minute that I've been here, yes,

Alex Ferrari 1:09
It's not normally this cold, yeah? Layers, layers, layers here. Yeah, don't worry. The devil will cross the street in about three months. It's gonna be all day, every day, 110 you know, I'm from Vegas, so you feel a problem, not a problem at all, not a problem. So we're here to talk about your near death experience and what happened to you. So what? But before we go there, what was your life like before this near death experience?

Lee Papa 1:35
Well, you know, it was full of drama. Interesting. Yeah, it was full of the external. I was married, had a young child, elderly mother living with me, and I was seeking my happiness externally. And I think a lot of us do that, and I was ill all the time. I always kind of had anything that came down the pike. I got it. And so I reinforced that by saying, you know, don't get near me. I'll get that, which we know manifests that exact thing. But the key was that I was I was unhappy, and didn't really realize I was unhappy. There was some missing part of me that was trying to be filled externally and and so the near death experience is really what brought to light all of that contrast that I was living in, seeking externally, seeking not only happiness, but recognition and and the word seeking is really important too, because I realized that my whole life, I've been a seeker and a seeker of things that were unknown. It's like I came in knowing that there was something I needed to know and and so I did that for as long as I can remember, trying to make known the unknown.

Alex Ferrari 3:17
So were you spiritual before?

Lee Papa 3:19
I would say yes, born and raised Catholic, but Catholic light, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 3:25
A friend of mine calls a cafeteria Catholic.

Lee Papa 3:28
Yeah, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 3:29
Pick and choose what you like, yeah.

Lee Papa 3:30
Although my dad had studied to be a priest, it was really my mother, who, you know, brought us to church in the in the early days, until she was going through her own, I guess, dark night of the soul when she stopped going and but, you know, it was part of the, you know, the church group, communion, exactly, confirmation. Went to Catholic grade school, Catholic High School. But really knew something was off, that I didn't get the concept that there was only one chosen people, right? And, yeah, and, and so I definitely was open to, let's explore this. Let's explore that I I would go to different services that, you know, I went to a Baptist funeral once, and I just thought, this is the way that you go right the go through the whole morning process and then the celebration, like absolute, beautiful service, explored the New Age Movement. Felt, you know, definitely resonated moved to LA. Definitely resonated with that. You know, the Bodhi tree command, the best bookstore there ever was, and, and so then I just explored, just looking for Yeah, just wanted to know. And then when something would resonate, I went down that, that road.

Alex Ferrari 4:59
So yeah, sure. Very similar story to me. I just kind of started going around figuring out things, listening to reading books, reading different philosophies, different ideas, just to try to figure it out, figure it you know, because I was told this one story, and I'm like, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. At least it didn't make a lot of sense. Just as a fun side note, do you know what my confirmation name is? No, I was an evil little boy when I when I was confirmed. You know that they you create your own confirmation name, and the priest has to read that name out loud in front of everybody. And my friends bet me you won't do it. I'm like, Oh, yes, I will. And my name was Bartholomew Humperdinck. And when that man got to my name, and he's like, son of you could see him angry, he had to say it, and he said out loud, and all of my friends started to die.

Lee Papa 5:59
Very telling about you.

Alex Ferrari 6:00
Oh, absolutely, Oh, absolutely. You could see the signs of my defiance early, early on. Okay, so you're seeking right now. You're going through your life trying to figure things out, and then then you died. So tell us what happened on that day.

Lee Papa 6:21
Well, again, I was in LA got married later, little later in life, and my elderly mother was really struggling, and she had fallen, and she was from the East Coast, and she, you know, spent 45 minutes on the floor kind of thing, right? And so my new husband and I, we just said, you know, something has to be done here. So family meetings, kind of situation, we decided she's going to move in with us. We're entrepreneurs. We had more flexibility than my siblings and and it was a big move. So we moved mom to Vegas. We ended up going to Vegas, which was kind of a funny side story. We were trying to figure out where to move away from LA because it was just too expensive for us to continue there and bring mom. So we were looking at different areas, and a friend of mine said, Why don't you try Las Vegas? And we were like, Las Vegas, not really vibing like no state income tax. Hey, we're moving to Vegas. So when we moved to Vegas, and mom, you know, as an elderly person, and spending, you know, 40 some years in the same home, that's a big move. Oh, and as much as we really tried to make that transition easier for her, there's only so much you can do that's just that was big. So mom struggled. So we were now with a young child, amazing and my elderly mom, and when we first moved to Vegas, within months, my husband was in a major car accident. He was rear ended at a light. I, you know, side note mourned my little my little 325, I convertible, you know, car. But the the major thing that happened was that it really changed the trajectory of our lives. He saw this truck coming. He had nowhere to go, and it barreled into him at a standstill. So this once very playful, easy going, very healthy and fit, human changed in that moment. So he dealt with chronic pain. You know, we were, we were looking at this. This is a new chapter of our life, and it just really changed everything. And then we were in the middle of a lawsuit. And if anyone has been in a major lawsuit like that, it there's nothing positive about the process, and he ended up journaling every bit of his pain every single day for years, volumes. And so again, what does that do? That just deepens and embeds the disability? And so we were struggling, and we were not going to make it, but we kept trying right this young, young family and and so he was dealing with his own pain and trauma and and I was dealing with my own, you know. Need to fix everything, you know. So, mom, oh, I had to fix everything.

Alex Ferrari 9:42
You had to die. Yeah, you had to die. That's the only way that you were going to deal with this

Lee Papa 9:47
Orchestration of this is that, you know, I was just starting this, this concept of understanding more about Reiki and energy healing and Crystals. Fell in love with crystals, and for a minute, you know, I was shoving crystals underneath the mattress of my husband's side of the bed, right thinking that miraculous thing was going to fix him, kind of, you know, funny now, in retrospect, but, but it was the drug, you know, it was the the breadcrumbs that were was leading me to this full awakening that could only happen with this process. So it's a long story getting there, but so he decided he was going to go on of a passion of meditation. So 10 days noble silence, he was going to go and really do this deep inner work. Great. That was wonderful. You don't have a phone. You don't have any communication with the outside world. Once you go into this retreat, that's what it is. For 10 days, all inner work, total silence, meditation. Well, as he was getting ready to go, I was sick. Once again, I had some upper respiratory condition or something that was going and I wasn't getting better, and at that time, I was starting to really look at holistic approaches to wellness. I was raised in that bucked it for a while. Now it was coming full circle, and so I was didn't want to go to the doctor. I really was going to get well on my own. And he said, I really don't want you to, I don't want to leave you like this, right? If I'm going to, if you can't contact me if something goes wrong. So I said, Okay, I'll go to the doctor. I'll get some antibiotics, which I did. And as I was leaving the doctor, he was saying goodbye. He had traveled to Colorado for this retreat. We said our goodbyes on the phone, and then I just couldn't leave it right. I just couldn't rest. I had to get things done. And it's like I was, I was just a woman on a mission. I was getting, like, security system put in the house. I was, you know, I was not, not taking care of myself. And then in a few, a couple of short days, I just went down and and then I again, just like this next level of down where I didn't know if I had, I didn't know what was happening with my son. He was, you know, two at the time, yeah, and my elderly mother, who was always around, somehow vanished. She was not to be found. I was kind of trying to call out in a whisper. I didn't know when the last time I had water. I didn't know the last time I had eaten and and so I felt myself drifting off, and yet my conscious mind was alert enough to say, you have to get someone to take care of your son, right? So, so I got the phone, I contacted my friend who is my son's godmother, and she came and took care of him, and as soon as I knew he was okay. My spirit left my body, and I could feel it lifting outside of my body. And with that, that beautiful release it was, I was in a a space of light, the brightest and whitest of lights you could ever imagine. I describe it as lightning strike white, and I didn't have a body. I was a sphere of light within the light, which is interesting, because you figure, you know, if you're if you're light and you're in light, how do you know the difference? But there's like, this differentiation of it. And it was just bliss. It was just sweet relief. And, and very quickly, I understood that this was this was it, and I could transition. And I had no qualms about leaving this suit behind. And, and then I noticed that there were these two light beings that were off in the distance. Again, depth perception is kind of a interesting thing when it's just all light. But I could see the these two beings coming towards me, and it felt comfortable. They felt not necessarily familiar, but safe. And as they got close to me, they spoke to me telepathically and said that, basically, it is not my time, but I had free will to choose whether to stay or to go. And I was like, going, I felt like it was, I was getting off of a roller coaster ride. You know, woo hoo. This was, like an amazing ride. I'm done. Let's just go on. But what they said to me is that before I made this decision, there were things to know, and it wasn't. Quite a life review. I call it a relationship review. Whereas I didn't see physically, it was more visceral, and so the key relationships in my life would wash over me, and I would feel just the extraordinary love and wisdom and knowledge that I gleaned from the experience and and then that person would wash away, or that soul experience would wash away, and then the next one would come, and then I would have that experience. And I only really recall my husband first, my mother, my husband and my son, so my husband came again, washing over and remembering that we were not in a good place. We we really didn't even like each other at this point, Oh, yeah. And so we were just kind of getting through and yet, in this light, in this experience, just extraordinary love and the wisdom and the knowledge of the experience. No woulda, coulda, shoulda, not. You know what's gonna happen when I'm gone. Just grateful for the experience. And then as he washed away, my son came and felt like it was strategic and what they were doing these beings felt like they had a job to do. And so Alex, I couldn't tell this part of the story for months, if not a year after it happened without really just breaking down and sobbing, because the pureness of the love was just beyond words. And it was softer, softer and pure. I was just so grateful to have the experience of birthing. And my son was only two years old. So, you know, it was just gone to college a lot, you know, long experience, but just pure. And yet, after that experience, of that, of this soul experience washing away, I was like, Okay, let's go. So the three main things were, my takeaway was that there is no attachment on the other side, and just pure love. So there's no death, pure love and no attachment. Now coming from a person that was very attached previous to this. I mean, I was a helicopter mom, and anyone that doesn't know that term, you know you are on that child all the time. Yeah, right. And now you know, not on a lead, but just definitely eyes on to this child all the time, and very attached, very attached to all my relationships and all my experiences. So this was very much a lesson for me of this feeling of non attachment but pure love. And so when I said to these beings, okay, that's great, you know, let's go, they said, there's just one more thing that you need to know to really make this big decision, and that is that this being would not be able to fulfill his destiny if he loses his mom at such a young age. So apparently, he had lost his mother in previous incarnations, and I have kind of a side story about that. That was, were you shown this? No, but I had an experience with my son where he said, I am. He had going to take this little side story, but he was very young. I was teaching him how to cook in Thanksgiving morning breakfast, right? And so post near death experience, and he burnt himself on the stove and and I grabbed him, I'm putting essential oils on it, right? I'm rocking him, I'm holding him, and he's crying, and he says, I want my mommy. And I said, I'm right here. I'm right here. I've got you, right? And he said, No, I want my other mommy. And it flashed back to this previous, you know this experience, yeah, so well, not a more of a recognition. Oh, he's talking about his previous life. He's talking about his previous mom. And I said, Honey, if I could bring her to you right now, I would, but you were in this experience now, right? So anyway, going back to the near death experience, they said, We want you to feel the feeling of what he would feel at the loss of his mom. And at that, I had this wash over me, this visceral feeling of the most excruciating pain you could emotional pain you could ever imagine. I described it as. Has shards of glass ripping through your soul, and you don't wish that on anyone, much less a child. And so that did it.

Alex Ferrari 20:10
So they basically killed you after you died. It sounds like it is,

Lee Papa 20:17
And you know, and that's been kind of a controversial thing, like, Why? Why would you know, in this loving place, you feel this pain? And I always go back to they had a job to do, and I still had free will. I still could say he'll be fine. Because, really, I remember saying he's going to be fine. His dad's a good dad. He's going to be fine. They're going to be fine. But there is a connection there, right? And, and I do believe that we, we choose our parents and our experiences and, and so kind of made a deal, a bit of a negotiator. So even on the other side, or this tweener space, as I call it, before I actually was, you know, going on the light train home. I made a deal, and I said, I will go back and be this beautiful souls mom until he doesn't need me anymore. And and then I get to go when I want to go. And so, no long, drawn out illnesses, no, you know, but when I get to choose, I get to go and boom, I was back in my body

Alex Ferrari 21:24
That simple.

Lee Papa 21:25
And I sat up and went, what the expletive just happened to me? Because I didn't know I was calling it a fantasy of death. I went from being, you know, kind of on my death bed, to being almost completely better, sitting up alert, and everything was beautiful. Everything had just like a film on it, a residue on it that was just different. Everything felt alive and vibrant and beautiful. I don't know how long I was sitting in my bed looking at these inanimate objects in my room, from the hinges on the door to the doorknob, in just awe of how beautiful everything was and and I was like, I need to get some help. What's what's this going on? I reached out to my sister at the time, was studying metaphysics and meditation, and I joke in the book, because she's a Leo and and she's very, very big person. Leo ish, yeah, very big personality. And she was silent while I just detailed everything of what happened, until I was like, So what do you think? And she was very exuberant, and she's like, you had an exit opportunity, and you know, that's so amazing, and people don't always remember them, but you know, there's a reason, and it was just a little too much exuberance at coming straight back.

Alex Ferrari 23:02
So this is like, right, right, right after, yeah, I Yeah, you didn't even process it.

Lee Papa 23:06
No, I was trying to get process right. I was trying to understand again. I was calling it a fantasy of death, so I didn't know. So then, and I have no idea how much time you were there, yeah, I was there, or even after how long I sat in my room staring at everything, but I was still in bed when I contacted my sister and then reached out to my dear friend who was on her spiritual path. Brenda, I can feel her now because she's on the other side. She guided me to her spiritual mentor from Houston, Texas, and I reached out to her, left her a voicemail, and she contacted me like almost immediately, and she said, Tell me. And I told her exactly what happened, and she said, near death experience. She said, It's textbook. She said, Do you feel this way? Did this happened. And I was like, Yes, I feel this residue on me. She's the one that gave me the term residue, and, and she said journal. She said it will start to dissipate slowly, slowly, and within two weeks it'll be gone. And boy, to the day, she was right on and, and so that first couple of days was just pure bliss. No matter what it was that was happening, it was just, is the residue? Residue brought back? Yeah, it was amazing. And, and so I eagerly brought my son home and with new eyes of understanding what this experience was, and

Alex Ferrari 24:45
Held them a little bit tight.

Lee Papa 24:47
Yeah, take a second.

Alex Ferrari 24:51
So let me go back for a second when you're in your near death experience. You said that there was a controversial part, which is the shards of glass going. Through your soul, that that that pain that you felt, just for everyone. I mean, I've talked to probably about 120 near death experiencers at this point, so I have a nice, vast experience of it. And from my understanding, it should not be controversial at all. This is from my point of view, and from my experience in research, is that you're absolutely right. They had a job to do. Their job was to persuade you, because you have free choice, but to persuade you just like no you can stay. But this is the result. So this is the cause and effect of what you're doing, just like we have cause and effect here. There was a cause and effect, because you're still one foot there, one foot here, kind of thing. So for people listening, yeah, it's completely fine. I've heard multiple times that there's things that happen on the other side that are negative. To show you, either it's self inflicted, like they have a hellish experience because they were Catholics, and they have to go through that in order to come back out, they always get saved. They generally don't leave from hell, generally. But that experience is not something that should be controversial, and I wanted to put that out there for people to who are listening, because it's, it's it's all love, it's all beautiful, it's all bliss. But there are moments to you, like, have to understand, like, if you leave you, I see you're you're high right now, right would that? Would that be a fair you are toked up high as a kite, LSD, meets marijuana, meets all of them all together, and you are not thinking about this, this meat sack that you've left behind, and also the other people in your life, because you're so high sometimes, at least from what I've understood, that they have to remind you, okay, cool, we get it. You're you're here.

Lee Papa 26:49
The Bliss is beyond compare, right? And so the greatest high ever, if you will. Well, yeah, I mean, like we, oh, so many different topics on on that, but yeah, and it's the non attachment that's the big bit. It's just this extraordinary love and no attachment. So

Alex Ferrari 27:13
Let's, let's dig into that for a little bit like, so no attachment. That's what the Buddha said. He's like, don't attach yourself to worldly things, because that's one of the causes of suffering, but you had that on the other side as what the Buddha said. So you didn't have an attachment to anything physical. You didn't have an attachment to even concepts outside of you, like we have an attachment to our career or or an idea of what we would like the world to be. That was all gone, right? That was all gone. So the amount of peace that you must have felt, the amount of bliss you must have felt, was so off the charts. It's not even explainable, right? So why would you come back? What like? So they had a they had a tough sell.

Lee Papa 27:57
Yes, I totally agree, and they knew exactly how to get to me, of course, right my son, and so knowing at that moment such pain right in such great contrast to the bliss that I was Feeling, it was an, you know,

Alex Ferrari 28:23
So your yours is, out of all the next near death experiences I have, I've never heard this kind of like relationship review review, that's a great term I've heard. I mean, life reviews are very common, and this is a version of a life review, but it's not exactly it was kind of like a relationship review, like you said, so that's a really interesting way it's so when you were there, did you What did you see? So it's all just light, or was there like a field? Did you see your pets there? Did you see a relative there? None of that.

Lee Papa 28:53
No. And what is interesting, because I haven't like you. I mean you, you've talked to a lot of people that have experienced near death experiences, and I chose for a long time not to listen to others, of course, because I didn't want it. I wanted mine to be just pure, great. I didn't want to kind of that's common, by the way. Oh, is it very to muddy the waters in any way

Alex Ferrari 29:19
At the beginning, a lot of near death experiencers don't once they understand what they have, it's so precious that they don't want it, at least at the beginning, to listen to others, because it could influence it's still too fresh to write hasn't been solidified yet. Once your story is solidified and you completely own it and understand it, nothing you hear will affect it. But at the very beginning, it's so kind of in motion that you really so you're very It's very common, very, very common for that to happen. But years later, you'll read, you'll start, you go to an ions conference, you know, that kind of stuff.

Lee Papa 29:55
Yeah, I and I have since spoken and and watched some videos. And things like that. But what I did find interesting, even in the process of writing the book, I was in a coffee shop in California in Three Rivers, which I absolutely love, that place, and I was writing and very much in you know, the mindset of this experience. And I was met by a woman in line who, you know, it's a small town, so people talk. And she said, Excuse me, Are you Lee, Papa? Are you writing? And that was a surreal experience. Yeah. Are you writing about your near death experience? You know, yes, yes, I am. And she said, you know, my husband had a near death experience. I'd love to tell you about it. She was so exuberant and just so happy to share. And I just, I was very eager to hear her. And she described it almost as if she had had it herself, right? She was really owning this experience. And they were very Christian based, and so their near death, or his near death experience, was very Christian based right met by Jesus had the experience. So at the end, she said, we're so glad we were right. And it hit me in that moment, and I, you know, I said to her, I'm so happy that you had that experience. It must have been just, you know, your husband must have been amazing experience. And so later, as I was writing, and then I think the drive home, it was more like, what if I love the what ifs because it helps us stretch. What if our near death experience is, what our belief is, right? And you touched on that before, exactly what it is, right? And so I thought, well, I believe in Jesus. I love me Jesus, right? I love me some Jesus. Why didn't Jesus show up for me? But what was he was booked

Alex Ferrari 31:54
He's the hardest working man in show business. He's at everybody can't be everywhere, no?

Lee Papa 32:01
And what's funny is, because of my Catholic upbringing, I never really had a relationship with Jesus.

Alex Ferrari 32:10
Well, in the Catholic religion, doesn't

Lee Papa 32:12
I never really had a relationship with the Bible, right, right? And so at that time, I was in the process of really seeking anything but Jesus, but I believed in Jesus, so as I was kind of dissecting this, and over time, you know, I would have talked about statuary, right? So, I mean, I even have, like, a Bucha on me, right? So I was seeking other avenues, but never, never really a relationship with Jesus. But anyway, through that experience, I was like, oh, okay, these two light beings met me. I didn't like have a relationship with light beings, but maybe that was the closest thing to my my belief at the time to be my guides. Maybe they are my guides. One One was, I don't think I mentioned this one was very masculine in energy. The other one was feminine in energy. He was the one that was masculine was on, you know, the taller side, a little fuller. The one that was feminine was a little smaller, and and they communicated with me individually, and then also as one thought so that I found very fascinating. But yeah, they I believe it's that it's based on our belief system. And I also think that I was in this between space, so I hadn't really quite gone through and I think some people go further than I did, oh, yeah, and come back with different experiences. Maybe that's why I didn't see my dog or my family, or it's other.

Alex Ferrari 33:56
Yeah, it seems that everybody is everyone's everyone's near death experience is custom built for the person who's going through it. So if you are Christian, nine out of 10 times Christ will show up, or Mother Mary, or someone like that that's in the hierarchy of that religion or that that that belief system, you don't see a Hindu generally have Jesus show up or Vishnu show up. To you, though, I did have one of my favorite, favorite, favorite stories near death experiences, an atheist died, and when he went to the other side, Jesus was there, but Jesus was dressed in a suit and tie with his hair pulled back in a ponytail. And he knew who Jesus was, but he didn't believe in him. He goes, You. Jesus goes, Yes. He goes, Why are you dressed that way? He goes, it's the only way you would take me seriously. Isn't that the most amazing story? Me so. So as far as custom building it, they will design that experience for the person, for what they need at the moment that they're at in their life, you needed that. You really probably didn't need to go through a life, a life review. You probably didn't need to meet uncle Bob and Aunt Jane at this time in your life, that's not what you needed. What you needed was a reassurance of what you were going to miss if you left. And it really put things into perspective. It's kind of like it's the ultimate wake up call. Dying is generally the ultimate wake up call. Would you agree?

Lee Papa 35:37
I would totally agree. Yes, it was, yeah, the most profound experience of my life, which, and I think I can, you know, a lot of near death experiencers come back with what you would call gifts, which I believe that we all have, we just haven't opened them up, right? And my strongest one is, is feeling? Is the visceral feeling? So people call that empathic or Sure, and I think that that came from that part of the near death experience where you felt, I felt, yeah, right, I felt it. That makes perfect sense. And yeah, so

Alex Ferrari 36:21
It's it's interesting too, like the hellish near death experiences, which are rare, by the way, they don't they maybe two out of 100 will have or two out of 500 will have a hellish experience. Generally, always they are either a Catholic or Christian, or it's part of their belief system. And I've spoken to them, and they've said, No, I went through that because I needed to go through that because I believed I had to. I was I was upset about things I've done, or I felt guilty about things I'd done. So I'm like, I need to be punished. As a good Catholic, we all know this, we need to be punished, and that's why they would go through this hellish experience, only to be saved. Generally, it's always an angel, Jesus, someone like that, will come and save them from the dip, the pit of where they're at. And they're pretty visceral too. They're pretty gnarly, depending on how bad it is. But the funny thing is, I've always noticed is the second they ask for help, all they have to do is ask, and it's it's done. It's there. They're there. The angel or, I mean, Archangel Michael or Jesus will show up as a bright light, and all of the negative energies that are around them will just scatter like roaches because they cannot handle that kind of light, the light that you're talking about. So it's really for people to understand. It is something very, very custom designed. But I want to ask you a question, why do you think it happened to you?

Lee Papa 37:56
I'm sure many different reasons. I that key thing about no attachment. I was very attached to all kinds of things, right? So material things I needed to learn the the lesson of non attachment and and I I learned it also after by things being taken away, and they do that too. Oh yeah.

Alex Ferrari 38:23
So it's more subtle than dying

Lee Papa 38:24
Multiple times. I don't know how I think that sometimes that was more painful than dying. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 38:31
It can be depending on your attachment. Yeah, absolutely

Lee Papa 38:34
Strong attachment to stuff. Now I have no attachment to stuff.

Alex Ferrari 38:37
Oh yeah. I mean stuff is, take it with you, yeah, as I said, as I say, there's no u hauls behind a hearse. A near death experience told me that Dan and Rick Lee said that

Lee Papa 38:49
That's a good one. Yeah, so I think that that was one of the main reasons. And and I also was told that I would, I would come back and be this, you know, some people call it light worker, but I would be a teacher in this realm. And previously, I had had a Reiki experience that the gal the Reiki Master said this was my first experience, and I started to have this feeling of My Spirit lifting outside my body, and this was prior the near to the near death experience, and she had told me that I would be this light worker, and I just thought, you got the wrong girl, Right? That's, that's not, yeah, that's not, you know. And then in time, you know, you your your life happens. And so this is what led me to the work that I do. And so I believe I was on I needed a boost to get on the right path. So it was most importantly for my son, so that he could. To fulfill his destiny, and then and then to to be here for the big show, which is what I think we are in right now. And yes, and so that's why I'm here.

Alex Ferrari 40:13
Yeah, I I agree with you. We are in the big show right now, as I was telling you earlier, I believe this is the bull in the china shop era, which is everything seems to be breaking everywhere all the time, and there's generally always a bull. Things over left and right constantly. So this is a very exciting time to be alive, I think so it's a very exciting time to be alive. It's also can be terrifying. Can be exciting and lovely and blissful. So it all depends where you're at

Lee Papa 40:45
Right our perception of anything is that will change your experience.

Alex Ferrari 40:51
So you said earlier that you believe that we choose our parents and we choose our experience. So are you talking about a blueprint, a soul blueprint, essentially or so contract that you go before you come in. I've spoken to pre death experiencers so they like, they remember organizing the the layout, like, Okay, this life, you're going to do this, this, this, you're going to be a woman, you're going to be. These are the parents you're going to choose. You're going to go down this road and laying all that out. Is that what you

Lee Papa 41:18
Yes, and I've never had that experience, but in my teaching that came to me as a way to describe contrast in our life. Okay, so I use the parable that you just described. You know, how do you know that there's light if you haven't experienced darkness? So we are in this experience of darkness, so that we can bring the light and understand the power of who we truly are as light beings. I just got that light beings movement Fair enough. And so when you are in heaven, I'll just use the term heaven Sure, 24 hour bliss. What could be better than that?

Alex Ferrari 42:02
No, 24 hours, but I get you, not so much clocks.

Lee Papa 42:08
But it's kind of like, you know, you have that million dollar view. Let's say your thing is an ocean view, and you have this extraordinary ocean view. But over time, what happens is, you stop seeing the ocean view, you stop being in awe of it, because it's there all the time. So it's kind of like heaven. So you're like, Oh, well, maybe I want to go back down. Maybe I want to have another experience. Maybe I want to learn more about forgiveness. And you don't learn about forgiveness by forgiving people. You learn about forgiveness by having a reason to forgive. And so you decide you're going to go back down, and you send out a telepathic message. You know, it's, let's, let's experience some contrast, and meet me on cloud nine if you're interested in going so your soul group that is interested in going, meet you in the conference room on cloud nine. And you choose, right? I'm going to be this. I'm going to and that's why for us to judge is ridiculous, because we've been all things and every

Alex Ferrari 43:08
Every race, every flavor, yeah, and we're just talking about this earth, right? But only imagine, right? The rest of this universe, exactly.

Lee Papa 43:17
And so you're looking around the conference room table, and, you know, like the one thing that you really need. So you've already chosen your parents and, you know, middle class family, and you're gonna have these siblings, and you're going to choose certain people to come into your life that are going to be very key. They might come for a short period of time and just give you a message, or they might be there for a Chapter, or, you know, the whole time, and then, let's say it's an abuse situation. That's what you you know, that's what I chose, because I know that that would be the most powerful thing for me to be able to overcome. And so you need somebody to show up for you and be that person that is going to be really the key to the very thing you wanted to learn in this life experience, good and bad and yeah. And then way down at the other end of the table, this soul, who you have had so many incarnations with the Oh, it's you just love this being with all your heart. And they lift their hands saying, I'm going to be that for you, and then you've developed this extraordinary blueprint for your life as you come into this experience. So the lesson is that nothing ever happens to you. It's always happening for you, and it's a tough pill to swallow when you've been taught the fairy tale that life is supposed to be bliss and wonderful and happily ever after, when life is supposed to be contrast, so that we can learn from the contrast and bring back that wisdom and knowledge into our soul experience

Alex Ferrari 44:58
And nobody you. Gets out of here without some sort of trauma, some sort of negative contrast in our lives. Not he wants soul. Everyone has to go through that. You know, even the Masters, even Jesus, all of them go through. I mean, he went through a few negative things, and all of them do. So it's almost a delusion to think that everything has to be perfect or blissful all the time. That's not why we're here. It's not there's ups and downs constantly. But what, as you're talking about this blueprint, the one thing that that you had in your blueprint is an exit ramp. So while I always use the analogy of a highway like there's mile markers that you have to hit. How you get to the mile marker is up to you completely. That's the Free Will part of it. But you will be born in the United States. You will be born a woman of this of this culture and this religion and this monitor the social status, because those are things that are kind of in, are in on pen, if you will not pencil, you can't really erase it as easily. So those are the mile markers, um, but then occasionally, if you did, like, you know what? Just in case, at this age, I'm gonna have an out. Just in case I want to restart or I wanted to go do something else. And these out ramps happen. It's like an exit, an exit opportunity, because that's an exit opportunity. Will you have a choice to come back? Not an exit like I'm going to die? No, you have a chance to go back. Would you agree?

Lee Papa 46:31
I would totally agree. And what was fascinating about that is that when I had the center, we had a guy come in who was a palm reader, a palmist, I guess, a palm reader, right? And and he looked at my palm and said, huh, did you have like, a major accident or something at this age? And I was like, No, I didn't have any major accident. And my business partner said, Excuse me, your near death experience. And I was like, oh, because he said, accident. I didn't connect it, so it's written in my palm. This exit opportunity was there.

Alex Ferrari 47:07
It's there. I'm looking at my palm. I'm good, I'm good, spitting it out there, I'm good. I don't

Lee Papa 47:13
Yeah, you can do this extension.

Alex Ferrari 47:14
I could just keep talking to them. I don't need to experience it. Thank you. Well, I've had people who've died two, three times, and I'm like, stop it. What's wrong with you? Stop dying. But they need these kind of like things along the way. It's pretty fascinating. Do you fear death anymore?

Lee Papa 47:32
No, no, no, no,

Alex Ferrari 47:35
Not at all. Right, no, that's a common Yeah, that's really common. Yeah, it's because you've seen the other side.

Lee Papa 47:40
Yeah, this is, this is hard. What we're doing is is definitely and I think that those of us who are on the trajectory of spiritual development, sometimes we have a harder time of it, because you know, I I made the statement, not sure that I should have, but I made the statement of, this is my last go round. So apparently, there are lots of lessons to learn when you make that statement. And so you learn the lessons the hard way, right?

Alex Ferrari 48:19
And also, you know, when you're in in the stuff, as we like to call it, the you're like, I don't, I don't want to do this again. But when you get to the other side, you're just like, wow, it's a completely different perspective. It's kind of like when you have children, when you have a child, the birthing experience those first two or three years is absolute hell. You can't sleep. That's all this stuff. And then, like, a little bit later, like, Huh, you kind of forget about, would be nice to have another kid, right?

Lee Papa 48:47
Exactly like you.

Alex Ferrari 48:49
You literally, I think, on a on a biological standpoint, we are, are something happens to us that we forget the pain that we went through those first two or three years are

Lee Papa 49:00
Yes, they're very sleep deprivation,

Alex Ferrari 49:02
Sleep deprivation, and just like your lower back and all of it, and that's from my perception as the dad. I can only imagine what my wife went through, you know, just experiencing that, and then all of a sudden, you're like, you know, I think we should have another, another, another kid. I think, no, I think

Lee Papa 49:23
It's like, it's like, you the memory of the pain is that you can just, you can't viscerally feel the pain. It's just like a it's a dream, distant memory.

Alex Ferrari 49:33
It's so but that's kind of what it is. I think, would you agree because you were on the other side? Is it kind of like that? You like, Oh, that was nice. Was that? Oh, that was a rough and you look at it from a perspective like, Oh, that was a rough lesson. I had to learn that, oh, that was, I remember that one. Oh, it's kind of like how we do our own life. We kind of go back to our own life, review and look at things that happened to us when we were younger, and go, Oh, that, yeah, that breakup, oh, my God. I thought the world was coming to an end back then. But Thank. I already went through that, or, thank God, the lessons I learned from that. I imagine that's amped up so much more when you're on the other side.

Lee Papa 50:07
Again, I go back to the whole attachment thing, right? So you just feel the wisdom and the knowledge of the experience, the love and the wisdom and the knowledge of the experience, but the non attachment, and that's probably why I do the work that I do now, which is mindfulness, because that's awareness of your thoughts and actions in the world around you in non judgment, right? So the the judgment piece and the attachment, like the leaning in, right? So prior to the near death experience, I leaned in to everything, every drama, trauma contrast. I completely was in it. I was in the middle of the tornado. But post and not immediately post, it takes time to continue to grow and learn and expand. I practice that observer. Look at that. Look at that happening. Look at that Uber not coming when it was meant to come this morning, right? Oh, look at that stress starting to build up because I don't like to be late. Okay. Where's that coming from? You know? So the observer sure is a very interesting place to be, and I think is a a more evolved place to be, yeah, less less contrast, less resistance.

Alex Ferrari 51:29
So what happened when you came out of the closet, this near death experience closet, I'm assuming you didn't shout it from the with the top of the the mountain at first. Now you're all in but once you write a book, once you write a book, you're pretty much all in your public but I'm imagining that. I mean, I've heard stories that they've lasted 10 years, 20 years. No one says anything, and it must eat the person alive, not being able to constantly hiding that. So how long did it take you and what happened? Friends, family, colleagues after that,

Lee Papa 52:01
After I came back, and my son was back and was so yummy that next morning I woke up and half my face was paralyzed, and I laughed, because you were so high, you were still bliss. I was still in blissville and not attached. So I took my son to, you know, daycare, and with with a paralyzed face, oh, that's fine. And, and I it really was comical. I drove myself to the emergency room, and I'm like, Can you do something about this? And they all rushed in thinking that I had a stroke, right? And I knew I didn't have a stroke, and, and it was Bell's palsy, and the doctor was saying, you know, you may or you may not get your face back, and I'm like, I will, and with acupuncture and, you know, Reiki and stuff. Within weeks, six weeks, I had my face back pretty, pretty much. So my husband calls straight out of the retreat, what's going on? I couldn't meditate at all. I know something's going on. I'm like, Well, yeah, but we'll wait until you get home. No, you got to tell me. Now, I said, everything's fine. I had this experience, but I need to tell it to you in person. Okay, so he comes home, and he's sitting on the other side of, you know, the the couch, and we're facing each other, and I tell my story, beginning to end, he's just watching me. And, of course, 10 days of noble silence. He's not going to be a, you know, Chatty Cathy, but I could hear what he was thinking. And this was the first time that, first of all, that I could really hear what somebody was thinking. And secondly, that I didn't care,

Alex Ferrari 54:06
Didn't care of the good opinion of others.

Lee Papa 54:08
I did not care. And afterwards, I I, you know, explained everything, and then I went, Oh, wow, you don't believe me. And he said, It's not that I don't believe you. I'm sure some people can resonate with that. It's not that I don't believe you, because the mind is a very powerful thing, and it can make you believe X, Y, Z, right? And I said, You know what? It's okay. I said, because I don't need you to believe me. For the first time in my life, I don't need you to believe me, because this was the most profound experience of my life. And no one, no one can take that away from me, sure. And so that probably was like one of the last nails in the coffin. But we did hang out there for a little while longer before the, you know, we transitioned to our we. Relationship, which, by the way, we're great friends. But I didn't come out completely. There were some friends that I shared the experience with, and again, I could feel the words were coming out one way, and I could feel what they were thinking like she's lost her mind. And so that's that led me to not really sharing with so many people, but I knew that there was something that I need to do. So I did have some spiritual friends, and just started building on those relationships. And then I opened, you know, I was guided. I could hear my guides now never could before. And I was guided to open up this little center, these two rooms. And I, you know, did through the guidance and the support of the non physical. And two rooms became 4, 6, 12, 13 in an executive suite, and people flooded in. It was run by volunteers and and then it became 6000 square feet. Jeez, it was amazing. It was open during 11.11.11, we had an extraordinary opening, and that was just a miraculous thing that happened and

Alex Ferrari 56:23
But Lee I have to ask you, so you know, you're talking about listening to spirit guides. You're talking about dying and going back all this kind of craziness. I say, I say this for people listening who think that you're just nuts or or that this like, not only woowoo, but you're like, you're listening to spirit guides now, and this and that, yeah, did you ever question, like, Am I losing my mind? Did that really happen? Was that? Like, how did you psychologically process this massive experience, spiritual experience, because a lot of people, their logical minds are pretty powerful, and when they come back to like, they'll start to explain things away, or like your husband or your ex husband was saying, like the minds a powerful thing. All this now and and now spirit guides are talking to you. So you seem like a pretty grounded lady, right? So you're not, you know, you're not full Woo, right?

Lee Papa 57:24
So, yeah, weird.

Alex Ferrari 57:26
So how did you process it, and how did you deal with it, and did you ever question this?

Lee Papa 57:30
Oh, yeah. So, yes, great question. Thank you. Yes, all of that, I had experiences like, it's not a non stop communication all day long, right? Exactly, then I probably would do something about it. But I've had experiences that have been what people would call extraordinary and and that it impacted me so greatly that there was no denying that I had it. Number one, the near death experience. Number two, during a meditation, I had Mother Mary come to me, and it was so visceral and so powerful, I dropped to my knees and sopped my eyes out. And then, you know, I got the message. And then that was it. So it's not it. It's not something that you can even describe to someone to in a way that they would be able to feel what you have felt. I've had an angel come to me so things that would be considered, you know, fringe, or Woo, woo, or, you know, supernatural or whatever. But because I had them, each little breadcrumb is leading me to, Oh, okay. This is real. This has happened. This is pre or post, some pre, most. Post, okay,

Alex Ferrari 58:50
Like the angel, yes. Post, okay. And did you physically visually see it? Or was in my eye?

Lee Papa 58:56
No, my eyes were closed, but I saw it, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough, yeah. And as soon as I went, it went away. Of course, soon as you grasp right, which is a really great lesson. And there was another one that was very powerful. It was at my home, and I was guided to to build a garden in the back, a square foot. You know, these Square Foot Gardens in Vegas, there's there the dirt is not very good, so you have to build it above the ground.

Alex Ferrari 59:34
Yeah, we don't get our food from Vegas.

Lee Papa 59:37
It was during the the financial and the real estate collapse, yeah, we were losing our house. Yeah, it was just awful. And then my guide tells me to build this garden in the back. Of course, my husband thought you're losing your mind. This post, this post, yeah, post. And I think sometimes the timeline Sure, and so the. He let me. I'm trying to think yes, post. I can't remember now. Anyway, so I was guided to do this, this garden, and planted these little baby plants, and they were growing. We didn't have the irrigation, so we were just watering them, right? And I was out there one morning in my 90 you know you, it's all blocked walls, and see you and and I'm watering now. I'm a Virgo. I'm very like you said. I'm grounded. I'm been a business person my whole career, and I'm watering counting, 1-234-567-8910, right? That's to me, that seems normal, right? You would water each little block a certain amount, right? Make sure that everybody gets the same amount of water. And all of a sudden, I hear outside of my head, stop counting. I whipped around and what? Stop stop counting.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:01
Feel the water, very Bruce Lee. Maybe it was Bruce we don't know.

Lee Papa 1:01:07
Karate Kid, feed the water Yes, right? So I'm like, Okay, this is weird. And so I tried, and I struggled, to just feel the water. I kept wanting to go back to counting. And so then I went through this process of just learning to feel the water. And so I was getting trained, and things happened like this, and then in my dreams, I'd wake up with information from my dreams, just blurting it out of things I didn't know previously. So I feel like I had gone through this process of like a school, right? I was being schooled in this more supernatural way of living, and so hearing guidance, it's weird. I don't always. I don't hear it audibly like that. That was a rare experience. I hear it more inside as a knowing, but it drops in this part of my consciousness, and then for a long while, I shut it down. I didn't I didn't want to have it. I didn't want to know. I didn't want to have it. I just wanted to be, you know, normal, and just lead my life. So yes and no, I came out of the the near death experience and psychic closet. When I opened up my center, I wrote the first the book I actually this is the 10 year anniversary, Second Edition, which I tell people definitely buy this one versus the first one. I'm a much better writer, and this comes with 10 years of spiritual wisdom, where, although the experience has been unchanged, the writing's better, and the wisdom has 10 years on it, which now I'm fully kind of out of the closet where I was leaving those two worlds kind of separate, because I do, you know, I I train and I speak on stress relief and mindfulness and corporate environments, meetings and events and things like that, and then, and then I had this experience, The Near Death Experience, center really just started bringing them together openly on my website in 2024

Alex Ferrari 1:03:27
And but that's the the timing was better. Now people are more. People are ready for this. People want to hear this. Anytime I talk to people about near death experiences, people, it's not like, You're the devil. That doesn't that doesn't happen. Yeah? But now they're just like, so what? What happens on the other side? And I talk to people who are very religious, and it reaffirms a lot of things that they believe in, but it you could see in their head, they're like, if there's something, like, yeah, so Vishnu was there, and they're like, what? And like, oh, yeah, well, that was that was that one person and and Buddha showed up in another. What did Jesus shows up in a lot of them. And it's fast. It's fascinating. I wanted to ask you something though you were mentioning, like, this guidance of you, like being kind of guided throughout your life, but I post the near death experience on, like, to open up the center to learn these skills to and you're kind of being trained very, very much like a martial arts masters being trained by, you know, training you like that very much, like a Mr. Miyagi or something like that, if you will. If you've said Karate Kid, yes, yeah, let's not do the crane right now, the worst karate move in history. No one would ever fall for that in real life, but anyway. But this, this idea that we, that spirit, is constantly working through us, because we are the conduits here in this space. They can't and I've heard this again and again, they can't interfere unless asked. It. They can't come down and move things around, because that's against the rules, if you will. Like, obviously, if Jesus just decided to show up in Bucha, let's say Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, Yogananda, Babaji, they all showed up on Times Square tomorrow. And like, we're here to you guys, obviously don't know what you're doing. We're here to help all this stuff. They can't do that in their incarnations. They did as much as they could because that was their mission. But it seems that more and more people like yourselves, light workers and things, are being guided, because this is the time that we need all of this wisdom, all of these ideas and every flavor known to man. People might not vibe with me, but they might vibe with you, and we're saying the same thing, yes. Is that? Do you agree with that?

Lee Papa 1:05:45
100% and I've tried to not do this, by the way, there was a period of time where I tried really hard, and I feel like God was like, okay, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead and do that. Let's Yeah, let's see how that works out for you. Yes, I think that we talked about the big show. I think that this is an extraordinary time. You You know, you talk about the bull in the china shop, I usually say the birthing process, and we are going through it. And the contrast is, is a lot, you know, and people are going through the contrast within their own personal lives, and there's contrast in the world and on the earth and and it needs to happen. Yeah, and I think we are very lucky, and I also believe that we chose, just like I chose, to come back. We are very lucky to be here during this time and and to learn to be open to what is coming, not only in our own lives, but as a whole, as a collective and and we've been preparing for this all along. And I think that you know I talk about the breadcrumbs we have to learn to allow our beliefs, to stretch our beliefs about ourselves, like if you feel unworthy, if you feel less, than allowing that healing and allowing your belief to shift and to change, to how spectacular and amazing you are, to our beliefs about our spiritual beliefs, which, you know, we've talked about how our evolution of spiritual beliefs and to be okay with where you are at the time, and also be okay that this might change, because otherwise, if you are so entrenched in your belief, whether it's spiritual or personal, that you don't allow any growth. You will atrophy absolutely and and what happens when that happens, deterioration, correct. So be pliable. Be malleable. Allow for it to be open with, with the what ifs just like I needed to be open with. Well, what if my near death experience in the way that that rolled out is not the only way? What if there are many different variations of it, but the whole key to it was that there was love and acceptance.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:15
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so for people watching this because I know a lot of people who watch these stories and these kind of episodes, they're either having someone who's dying, someone who had just passed, or just curious about is, is and Jane, okay? Is my son okay? Is my mom? Okay? Is my pet, okay, all that stuff. What message do you have for those people listening?

Lee Papa 1:08:46
Yes, yes, they are okay. They're better than okay. This is better than we're doing. Yes, this is the toughest part. They graduated, and it kind of takes me back to that Baptist funeral that I went to, oh, so many years ago. Yes, we're going to mourn because we have attachment here, and we don't want that person to go but when we can get to the point where we're happy for them, because they are, they are living the life and that, it's not that they are not attached to you. It's that they still love you, and they have that wisdom and knowledge that is far beyond our restrictions that we have here. But to keep talking to them have a relationship, there's no reason not to have a relationship. I had. My mother came to me post when she passed and and I still talk to her, and she still has the same personality, and sometimes I feel her, and sometimes I talk to the air, and don't hear, you know, any kind of essence of a reply, but I know it gets through

Alex Ferrari 1:09:54
Fair enough. Now I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask on my guests, okay, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Lee Papa 1:10:01
I wish I would have prepared for that. What is my definition for living a fulfilled life? Self love and self care has to come first before you can love and care for others and that you are not your body and that you are this beautiful, extraordinary soul that is here to have experience without harm, without harm to self, without harm to others, and in that give yourself the freedom to have full experiences.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:41
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Lee, what advice would you give her?

Lee Papa 1:10:45
Oh, there's so many I could list, like multiples, but the main one, I guess, would be, you are everything that you need within you. You don't need to look outside yourself for anything.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:59
How do you define God or Source?

Lee Papa 1:11:02
God source the divine universe, spirit, creator, love. All the names Jesus, it is for me, the purest love and creation all came from this one source.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:21
What is love?

Lee Papa 1:11:23
I don't know how to define love. It's a tough one.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:28
It's a tough one. If you could ask God or Source one question, what would it be?

Lee Papa 1:11:34
What took you so long, to wake me up?

Alex Ferrari 1:11:39
Fair enough, I was waiting for the second part of that, like long. What did he take so long? Or she? And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Lee Papa 1:11:48
I believe the ultimate purpose is to love, to exemplify love, and to experience. I go back to that because we chose to come here for an experience and and that's different for everyone.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:05
And where can people find out more about you? Pick up your book, Temple of all knowing the 10th anniversary edition, obviously, is the one to buy, yes and find out more about what you're doing in the world.

Lee Papa 1:12:14
Leepapa.com, L, E, E, P, A, P, A.com, everything's on there. Social is live mindful, Lee, L, E, E and lee@leepapa.com is my email.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:31
I'll be careful with that. Oh no, no, no. Well, just prepare for the emails. That's all I'm gonna say. And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Lee Papa 1:12:40
So we're living in this extraordinary time, and it's very easy to lean in to the contrast and the resistance of you know, all the things that are happening in the world. Just know that you are here for this amazing, transformational time of the Big Show, enjoy it. Lean back a little bit, be that observer and say, you know, this is an extraordinary time to be alive. And even though there's a lot of contrast, spend time in what's really working, the beautiful things that are really working in your life, that we are together today, that you are having a cup of coffee in your kitchen, that you have the ability to smile, to hug, to say hello to Someone. So the very simplest things in life are really the most amazing and joyful.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:45
I couldn't agree with you more. Lee, it's been such a pleasure and honor speaking today for you sharing thank you for sharing your story and sharing your energy with me here and with the audience. I appreciate you and everything you're doing to awaken the planet. So thank you.

Lee Papa 1:13:58
I appreciate you too. Thank you so much.