On today’s episode of Next Level Soul, we delve deep into the spiritual cosmos with the ever-enlightening Matt Kahn. Known for his profound wisdom and heart-centered teachings, Matt returns to share more of his journey and insights. His presence always brings a sense of calm and clarity, guiding us through the labyrinth of spiritual awakening.

Our conversation begins with Matt reflecting on the surreal moments of his childhood, where he experienced profound spiritual phenomena. He recalls, “I had these moments when I was young, where it felt like a different part of me would speak through me.” This early connection with a higher consciousness set the stage for a life dedicated to spiritual exploration and teaching. It’s fascinating to hear how these experiences shaped his understanding of the world and his place within it.

As the discussion unfolds, Matt Kahn shares the transformative experience of meeting his wife, Joy. Their connection was immediate and profound, transcending the ordinary. Matt humorously recounts, “We met at a conference, and by the end of the weekend, I was in a committed relationship.” This instant bond was a testament to the deep spiritual alignment they shared. For those on a quest for their divine connection, Matt offers sage advice: “I think that people think that either looking for your beloved, is going to be what causes you to find them. And usually, when you’re looking for your beloved, you’re trying to cast someone into the role they’re not meant to play.”

In this profound conversation, Matt Kahn also touches upon the concept of past lives and spiritual rebirth. He shares a significant realization, saying, “I went through an experience a couple of years ago… where the past lives I did remember, the wisdom has been integrated, the wounding has been healed. And I actually live as this, as if this lifetime is my first and only lifetime.” This perspective offers a refreshing take on the journey of the soul, emphasizing the importance of embracing the present moment fully.


  1. Embrace the Present: Matt’s journey teaches us the power of living fully in the present, integrating past wisdom while releasing old wounds.
  2. Trust the Divine Timing: His story of meeting Joy highlights the importance of trusting the universe’s timing and letting go of rigid expectations.
  3. Love Yourself First: Before seeking a soulmate, cultivate a deep, loving relationship with yourself. This self-love becomes the foundation for attracting a partner who resonates with your true essence.

As our conversation draws to a close, Matt leaves us with a beautiful reminder of the essence of true love and spiritual connection. “When we fell in love, we didn’t just fall in love with each other physically and emotionally, mentally. We fell in love with each other’s connection and devotion to source.”

Please enjoy my conversation with Matt Kahn.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 450

Matt Kahn 0:00
The real one that both of us met were within ourselves. So I stepped into being the soulmate. Whether or not my beloved counterpart was meant to show up in this lifetime, she did the same thing that brought us together. But we were also very detached and settled on whether I meet that person or not.

Alex Ferrari 0:23
I'd like to welcome back to the show returning champion Matt Kahn. How you doing brother?

Matt Kahn 0:37
Thank you. It's an honor to be here. What an incredible setup you have.

Alex Ferrari 0:41
Thank you so much, my friend, I appreciate that. It's been a long time coming, man long time coming.

Matt Kahn 0:46
I just wanted to start out by by saying, because you know, I've known you for a little bit. And I just wanted to congratulate you on on this incredible success. And whenever I get to tune in and watch you and all these wonderful guests, it's such a beautiful level of connection. And I just I love everything you're doing. And so the chance to come back and spend time with you as is truly an honor.

Alex Ferrari 1:08
Oh, I truly appreciate that. Thank you so much. Well, I mean, you are a OG sir. Oh, gee, next level. So you are in Episode 16. I think you I think the first time we interviewed I was in my film set of my old podcast, because I hadn't even built a set for the show yet. And then our second interview we did, I was in my Airbnb in a almost look like a closet. And I'm wondering what you're thinking at this point, you like this guy. He's in a closet. I don't understand what's coming.

Matt Kahn 1:42
I don't know this. These things. I started listening to you. We had a great conversation. Great conversation. Great guy. But honestly, I didn't have any thoughts about those interviews. It's when I sat stepped into this set. And I went, Oh,

Alex Ferrari 1:58
It's funny. When you walked in, you were like, You saw my office where like, the computers are like, are we doing it in here? Are we being interviewed in here? Like, is there a mic anywhere? Like, are we I'm like, no, no, dude, we got a little something.

Matt Kahn 2:11
This is next level Alex.

Alex Ferrari 2:13
This is next level, sir. No. Well, and congratulations to you. You just you're a newlywed. If I'm not mistaken.

Matt Kahn 2:22
Yeah, I'm the Lord of the Rings. I'm married. Joy and I got married on St. Patrick's Day, which was a year to the date of the day we met. Oh, that's amazing. And we met at a conferences, you know, we both speak on stage, we'd never met each other. And we met by the end of the weekend, we both had promised each other and our next relationship where if that is we're gonna take it slower than ever. We promised each other I silently I promised myself this. And so I met her. And then by the end of the weekend, I was in a committed relationship, which was the opposite of that declaration.

Alex Ferrari 2:57
Well, you know, a year later to get married pretty, pretty quick, my friend.

Matt Kahn 3:02
Really quick. But you know,

Alex Ferrari 3:03
As you get older, though, you know, when you know, man oh, and you know, and then you guys are both connected a little bit to the, to the to the source of Yeah. So you guys kind of felt that energy. You're like, why are we wasting time?

Matt Kahn 3:14
You know, it actually is funny. And she tells this story so well. But when we met, we turned around, we met within a few minutes of talking, literally our energy fields connected. And it was literally like the universe saying By the way, you two are together. So you'll figure it out.

Alex Ferrari 3:31
You're welcome.

Matt Kahn 3:32
Yeah, process a journal about it. Whatever, you got to do pull cards, but you're together.

Alex Ferrari 3:37
So so let me ask you this, though. Have you guys been together in other lifetimes is the question.

Matt Kahn 3:41
I think we have. She has more of a sense of that I have a familiarity with her. There's a felt sense of it. But I went through an experience and I think this is maybe I went through an experience a couple of years ago because you know, we've we've had different interactions over the years. And what's interesting is I go through so much growth and expansion as we all do that every time I meet you, I feel like I'm meeting you like, as a new version of myself literally for I meet myself brand new every single day. But I went through this experience many years ago of awakenings where, you know, you remember your past lives, and I think I was his character. And I remember this memory that I went through an experience couple years ago, where it was and I think of levels of consciousness like floors in a building. So at one floor, I remember my past lives, some of them at least, and I process that and I I've been here before and I you know, there is no death, life continues all these realizations. And then I had this experience of going to the next floor. And I suddenly realized that even the experience of my past lives was just a different dream. And I've now have this lived experience where the past I was I did remember, the wisdom has been integrated, the wounding has been healed. And I actually live as this, as if this lifetime is my first and only lifetime, which then gave me an actual real experience of what it means to be reborn not like in a religious sense, but what that really means spiritually, to be reborn. And to literally be in this lifetime, as if it's your first and only lifetime. And so when I met Joy, I had, I'm in this place where all the all the sense of past or even past lifetimes is gone. But but there was a familiarity I felt with her for sure this there was this. I know you.

Alex Ferrari 4:23
Where have you been?

Matt Kahn 5:31
Where have you been?

Alex Ferrari 5:45
Where have you been? I felt that with my wife, yeah.

Matt Kahn 5:50
I've been I've been looking since I was 14 years old. And well, you know, every person you know, are you. Are you. Are you?

Alex Ferrari 6:00
Oh, yeah. We went through. We went through a lot of frogs as they say. Yeah. So it's interesting that when you do meet people like that, and it doesn't have to be romantic, other people like that, that just people like, oh, where have you been? Right? There's this automatic connection and automatic vibe and energy. And there are people that when you meet them, you're like, Oh, get away from me. Get away from me. Sure. I don't know what we what we did in real life. Just go away. Yeah, there's one person I won't mention their name. But I just when I met them, their energy was so heavy, like other people around me had no problem with her. Yeah, but she was the I was like, oh, yeah, I can't I can't. She did nothing to me. Yeah. Nothing. No, not a mean word has ever been spoken to me. Right. Not an action has been done to me. But there was something about the energy I was just like, I got to know not want to hang out with her anymore. So it goes both ways. Right? It goes both ways. So let me ask you since we were talking about your, your newfound love, yeah. your long lost love. Yeah. A lot of people watching are trying to find their divine connection and their other half in this life. What advice do you have for people who are like we were searching. I mean, I was I was 30 when I found mine. And that's it was a good, good amount of time. And you just recently found yours. Yeah.

Matt Kahn 7:38

Alex Ferrari 7:39
At 47. Exactly. So it's different for everybody. Right? Some people are lucky to find them in high school. Right? Some people find them at 80. Right. Which is upsetting. As you're going through the tunnel. Wow. Hey, come on. I'll see you in the next. So what advice do you have for people who are just in just looking and looking and looking? I can tell you one thing though.

Matt Kahn 8:07
Yeah. Well, I have very specific advice. What would you say?

Alex Ferrari 8:10
Well, the thing I'd say is like I stopped looking. Yeah, I stopped looking. I'll tell you exactly how it happened. Yeah, I been single for three years. Yeah, broke up with a bad relationship. And I was I did a walk about in Mexico. Yeah, I went down there went to the pyramids. And I did by myself. Yeah. years ago, went down by myself and went to all the things I just had like a walk about a spiritual walk about even though I didn't know what the spiritual walkabout but kind of a spiritual walkabout and on the plane back, I just said to God, you know, God, it'd be kind of nice if I could find someone who I could love and could love me back. That was the order I placed. And three weeks later, she showed up my goodness, three weeks later, she showed up. And we've been together ever since. That. So I stopped looking. That was my advice, because I was always like, Alright, hello, you. Are you? Are you it? Are you it? Yeah. And that energy? I don't think at least for me, it didn't like, right didn't work for trying to find that other person. Right? The moment I said, I'm good. On my own. Yeah, it'd be nice if I could find another half now that like, I need you to live more like, you complement the way and walk in this. But I need someone to walk with me. Next to me. Right, as a journey. Does that make sense?

Matt Kahn 9:25
It does. I think that part of the confusion. And I have a couple of very specific pieces of advice on this that I think are maybe not expected, but this it will be the truth of what I have lived out. I think that people think that either looking for your beloved, is going to be what causes you to find them. And usually when you're looking for your beloved, you're trying to cast someone into the role they're not meant to play. Right so then you treat someone who isn't your beloved as your bill. Have it and we can see all the sitcoms that are created all of that. So I think there's an idea that looking for my beloved is going to help me stack the deck. But then the other spiritual superstition is looking is what's blocking me, what I would say is that neither looking is blocking or helping you. It's just what you do to pass the time until the moment arrives. So you had an intuition that said, I'm going to meet my wife soon. And so you process that intuition by declaring, I'd like to meet that one. And then three weeks later, she entered your life. So for me, I look at that. And it's very similar with law of attraction, there are some people who think they're creating out of thin air. And actually what they're doing is they're intuiting that it's near. And then their declaration that I'm going to create it or that it's, it's here is actually the acceptance of I accept, this is coming near. And I'm willing to choose that timeline. So I had been looking for my beloved since I was, you know, like 14 years old. And I had, you know, I've heard so many times from people Oh, don't look for the one. So I would not look for the one as a way of trying to stack the deck to bring the one to me. So what eyes closed, not looking for the one one eye open, making sure I don't miss her. So still looking by not looking. And I had been in relationships, and they were all wonderful and preparing me for the kind of relationship I was meant to be in. And I got to a place in my life, where I thought, you know, if it's not going to be the kind of relationship that I've always thought I was meant to have, I'm okay alone, I'm successful. I'm good alone. I cook incredibly, I live a very beautiful life, I serve the world. And that's my one of my greatest passions. So I let my work and my service to humanity be my my beloved, until or if it was meant to happen. And when it was getting closer to Well, as I was, I was kind of out of my last relationship before join, I met what I decided to do. So there's two things that happen. One is, I decided, based on an intuition that I'm going to live, like a single married man, a single husband. So I'm married to my wife, she hasn't materialized in my reality yet. But I'm not going to even go on a date with a woman, unless I have a sense that she could actually be the one or else I'm going to treat a woman in a way. That isn't the role she's meant to play. And I felt like, like I would be cheating on my wife. And at first I was like, that's either super romantic, or I'm doubling down on my weird, say, insane stuff. But but it felt really true of, I don't want to cause play a relationship, I don't want to roleplay this, I want to actually either be in the relationship I meant to be in or not at all. So I would meet people and there'd be interest. And I would know, this would be an exploration. But this is not the one for me. And so I wouldn't even engage in a first date. Because I would only go on a first date with someone I actually thought could be my wife. So like a courtship.

Alex Ferrari 13:32
Oh, and what age did you come up with this?

Matt Kahn 13:34
I mean, this was a couple of this was maybe five or so years ago. So I

Alex Ferrari 13:39
You were seasoned.

Matt Kahn 13:40
Yeah, I was really serious. And that, for me, gave me a sense of closure. And another thing is, when it got close to meeting Joe, and I didn't know this, I was taken through an experience with my guides. And they kind of explained to me something really interesting. And they had said, you know, everyone thinks birth is followed by death. That's why everyone's afraid of death. It's the unknown, but actually death comes before birth. Right? There's the death of being in the womb as one is born. There's the death of the death of being the seed before you blossom in the flower. So death actually occurs, you know, joy would say entropy. That's a beautiful word. She uses a lot that I've learned from her, but she would say that, you know, it's it's a true thing that death occurs in order for birth to dawn. And so my guides had said to me, you're going to meet your beloved, but there's going to be a time where those who come together are separated, whether by death, and end, my guide said to me, Melchizedek said even if you hold hands and walk into the gates of heaven together, there's Gonna be a moment somewhere where you go your separate ways. And so I was walked through a process of processing the death of my wife, as a way of opening up to being able to receive her in a way, where I wouldn't give my power away to the relationship. And we're having this relationship when then make me afraid of losing something, or that I'd be a people pleaser, or that I'd figure out what can I do to, you know, keep her in all the things that we do when our ego gets involved. And so I was taken through this really incredible experience of in order to be the version of myself, that she's welcoming into her reality. And in order to welcome in the version of her that I'm welcoming in, I have to allow the she and I that haven't even come to be to perish. And I processed the death of her. And for me, it was the death of not only us, but I had been looking for my wife for so many years, I also processed, this may not be what's meant to be for me, so I processed the death of the fantasy of my wife that in order for me to meet her in reality, I have to let the fantasy die, I have to stop keeping myself company with visions of me and my wife, and I had to let the fantasy die. And so I went through this very deep experience of letting the fantasy and whatever will be in reality, to die. And to go through that. And on the other end of that, I became a very different version of myself, who at that point was so whole, and was so embodied. And I remember I went to this speaking event in Arizona, who was going to be a keynote speaker, and I had to go to this breakfast thing, you know, and meet all the other speakers, whatever, which. And I remembered, I was in such a funny place. When I went into that breakfast, I was just like, in my mind, like, I hope no one bats their eyes at me, I am so not in this place. And you know, I'm done. And I'm complete and, you know, big declarations. And I walked in, and she and I wound up meeting, like she turned around, and I and we met. And within a few minutes, our energy fields just clicked. And we sat down at the same table. We were both joking that this you know, pre speaker thing felt like traffic school. And what is this, and by the end of that breakfast, we found ourselves just in this, you know, wow, this connection is instantaneous, on every level, not just like the spiritual connection. Like I think we're supposed to be together. But you know, the attraction and everything. And then she was speaking that weekend, I was speaking that weekend. And that weekend, we spent getting to know each other. And by the end of the weekend, we are in a committed relationship because we had both sad that we both didn't want to explore it. Unless this was already fully committed journey together. And if I felt that this actually could be my wife, I don't casually date. I don't do any of that stuff. I want to get to know her. And I want to focus on that. And I want to see what this is. And she was of the same mindset. And so we got into a relationship. We traveled back and forth from Arizona to Seattle a few times. She moved in months later. And on the year anniversary of the day we met we were married. And it's been the greatest relationship that I've ever known. But and I'm sure she'd probably say the same hope. I'm sure she was. Alex, I'm sure she would say the same thing. Alex. Wait, when you muscle test? Yep. She would. She would say that, but

Alex Ferrari 19:21
She's real right?

Matt Kahn 19:23
I hope so.

Alex Ferrari 19:24
I hope so. If not, this is a really bad Six Sense sequel

Matt Kahn 19:28
If not, this is going to be next level soul when spirituality means delusion. Absolutely. Right. Right. So but it is the best relationship I've ever been in. And it's because of the journey that I went through to become the version of myself that we were both meant to be together. She had a similar experience of, I'm only going to take seriously a man I think is my husband. So we were both living as single married people. And the reason I think that's incredible advice is, is thank you is because when you like, if you're a single person and you're just dating, well, let me back up and say this, there's a way that the soul connects, and there's a way the ego engages. So it's, it's, it's very telling. So when the when the soul connects, the soul says I don't lean in. Unless it's a yes, on every level. The ego says, I lean in as if it's a yes. And hope for the best. When I'm not sure. What the ego doesn't know, is the phrase. I don't know. If you hear it, you hear no, you don't hear. I don't Yes. So the ego says, well, but we don't want to just judge the person we don't want to.

Alex Ferrari 21:08
Who knows? Sure. works in the mafia. Oh, no. I mean, she's, I could change her. Right?

Matt Kahn 21:14
Sure. Sure. They're holding a butcher knife. But

Alex Ferrari 21:17
I mean, yeah. over your neck while you sleep. I mean, it's, I'm sure it's

Matt Kahn 21:22
Everyone has it, everyone. Everyone has the thing they do.

Alex Ferrari 21:27
You know what?

Matt Kahn 21:28
That's how they stay safe.

Alex Ferrari 21:29
And it's that's another thing though, that, you know, we're joking about, yeah, but the rationalization of the other person. And, man, I don't know if you went through that. But you you start rationalizing you like, the fear comes in, like I'm afraid of being alone. Yeah. It's just a butcher knife. She, I'm sure that she, you know, took the money out of my account for good reason. Whatever that is, and he or her everybody pleased on both sides. But that rationalization is powerful, and gets people into a lot of trouble got me into trouble. Yeah, I think probably got you into trouble early on. We all rationalize because we were there fear of being alone. fear of being rejected, right? Fear of every all the fears start coming in and use in your ego is like, well, this and that, of course. You know, and all this kind of stuff. Is is something that we really need to keep an eye on when you're walking in. Like when I walked in, yeah. To my relationship with my wife. It was it was so level, there's no question before I even understood what that was. Right? We just knew it. We both knew it. She couldn't wrap her head around me. I was were so opposite. Yeah. So she couldn't wrap her head around me. Because one moment, I am like Robin Williams bouncing off the walls, the neck that our first date, I just was. And she's like, what is happening? I like him. But Jesus, the next one. I'm sitting in a bookstore with her talking deep things. And who is this guy? I couldn't grasp it. Like, but I walked into it just I just knew. And that's I think when you know, when you have that inclination, I just didn't care anymore. I'm like, I'm gonna be me. Right? You know, yeah, I'm gonna be me. And it's going to be well, it's going to be

Matt Kahn 23:26
Well, I think that's how Joy and I were, you know, I know we were we, we just were ourselves. And we're both very transparent people. So there wasn't, you know, it was it was more like conversation of I really like you. How do you feel about me? And it was so refreshing, right? Because that's how that's how we both are. We're both very honest people.

Alex Ferrari 23:48
You didn't wait two days to call her back? That's a real man. That's a dude. Two days, if you want to really make a wait five days, because that's smart.

Matt Kahn 23:59
Yeah, with a 50% divorce rate, right. So that those are the rules guys, those are the rules and the

Alex Ferrari 24:04
If you want a 50% divorce rate, we're not even getting off they're not even getting out of the gate.

Matt Kahn 24:09
Here's the thing about my rules which which are made up but if I if I like when Joy went on a date, and we parted I texted her two minutes later to say I had a great time. Please let me know when you get home. I'd love to see you again. Right immediately Old School alum in medial school love immediately. Like if someone here's the here's the dating rule, if they can't handle your inner sixth grader, Let your inner sixth row send a text. I like you that was I had a great time

Alex Ferrari 24:46
Do I have to hit you with a magazine to get your attention?

Matt Kahn 24:51
Don't make me act weird, they'll make me act and we can act we can act. But so I you know so we both lived in Single married people we both. And so that's the thing. The ego says, if I'm not sure, I'm gonna keep saying yes. And create a relationship with someone that I haven't really gotten a solid yes around, I'm afraid of missing out, I'm afraid of being alone. And so we cast people in the wrong roles. And that's when you get down into a relationship. And one day you wake up and you go, I just can't do it, or, you know, all these different things, and you wind up hurting people. And so for me, I just didn't want to follow that energy. Again, the soul says, until I get a yes. I don't lean out of friendship. Like if someone goes, Oh, I'm feeling this connection with you? Well, I'm not sure what I'm feeling or so far. It's just a friendship. That's the soul. And it's confidence. The ego says, Well, I'm looking for a partner, there must be a sign that this is clearly a sign.

Alex Ferrari 26:01
There's a sign or Spirit told me or this kind of thing it's using the ego is using terminology Yes. To make you because you don't feel that you're thinking that yeah, self fulfilling prophecy. It's thinking you're not feeling it. And there is a there's the situation, the situation, I guess, at the word, distinguish between those two things, right, thank you. That the mental and the feeling. And boy, I lived up here most of my time.

Matt Kahn 26:31
Well, and you know, when you go from, you know, when when when people go from identifying with critical thinking as their mode, motor function most of their life, and then you take in spiritual concepts. And it goes from critical thinking to spiritually critical thinking, then the critical thinking mind is the one that thinks it's observing all the signs, but it's actually piecing together a self fulfilling prophecy.

Alex Ferrari 26:58
That's a scary thing. That's a serious spiritual, what was it spiritual?

Matt Kahn 27:03
The spiritual critical thinking,

Alex Ferrari 27:05
Thank you spiritual critical thinking. It's, it's also called magical thinking, magical thing.

Matt Kahn 27:09
And what's interesting, and you know, Joy, and I both are intuitive, and we both channel,

Alex Ferrari 27:15
You guys. And you guys have the you can easily fall into that world so quickly,

Matt Kahn 27:19
We could. But what's interesting is that it is so easy for and again, the ego doesn't do it to hurt anyone, the ego is trying to be a helper. So it goes, you're so into spirituality. And you've convinced me that you're on some sort of mysterious Easter egg hunt. So I'm going to help you find the eggs even though I'm going to invent them. And it's then we train our egos to be these searchers and seekers of spiritual signs. It's different when it's a sign. Like when it's a sign, it's so obvious, you don't even know what to do with yourself. It's so just like, like, your mind goes blank. There are signs in the universe. But then there are the signs that we are kind of piecing together. Like, you know, oh, I turn on the car radio. And there's a song on the radio, obviously.

Alex Ferrari 28:17
I mean, obviously,

Matt Kahn 28:19
And if it's Mariah Carey,

Alex Ferrari 28:20
Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion. And O'Brien Adams, Bryan Adams back in the day

Matt Kahn 28:27
Bryan Adams,

Alex Ferrari 28:28
Everything I do I do for you.

Matt Kahn 28:30
He is an archangel sir.

Alex Ferrari 28:31

Matt Kahn 28:32
So, and I had been someone early my career where I had gotten, I had understood signs. And I started to know the difference between the universe bringing me aside and then looking for signs as a way of trying to keep myself so. So even in spirituality, we can use fantasy, to keep ourselves company as we process the loneliness of our own Separation from Source. And right. And so I had gotten so whole in myself, even after years and years of awakening. And when Joey and I met, I always say, you know, we met, obviously, we fell in love. But when we fell in love, we didn't just fall in love with each other, physically and emotionally, mentally. We fell in love with each other's connection and devotion to source. When we met, we showed each other our devotion to God. And that's when two people attracted to one another, became husband and wife in the first 10 minutes of meeting, and that's now our life.

Alex Ferrari 29:50
Absolutely beautiful. I hope that helps. A couple people out there because I wish I would have heard this conversation at in my 20s or 30s. Right, you know, yeah, honestly, well it's powerful, it's powerful stuff, and so many people are looking. I'd love that. I'd love the idea that this the spiritual critical thinking, Yes. And that the egos use the spiritual concepts and you're like well, you know I I did everything I was supposed to do I burn the sage. Yeah, you know I am wearing the right crystals, I don't really understand why, you know, you know the psychic at the carnival said I can do like I'm supposed to have he's coming or she's crying and I'm supposed to have three kids with them. Like that kind of stuff. But when you meet the real one, I think you and I are both lucky enough to have met that person. Yeah, is so different. It feels so different it is than everything else you've experienced prior to that. And even if you can't articulate what it is, like when I first saw her, because we were hooked up. My mom looked this up. But mom set us up, which is a miracle in itself. She was trying to get me married off. And when we when I saw her coming out of her house. I there was just it just I've seen I saw pictures of her. We spoke on the phones before FaceTime. And I just say, Oh, well, there you are. And as as the conversations kept going, I was like, oh, okay, don't get me wrong. I was still terrified. I was still terrified. Terrified, but not that much. Right? Not not enough to screw things up. But in the back of my head, like don't get hurt. Oh, my God is that but that's natural, especially when you're younger? Yeah. But when I saw her, I just like, Oh, there you are. And as we started talking more and more, you know, we went on our first date, the next day, we went on our second date, a few days, maybe a third. It was just like, boom, boom, boom. And within a few months, she moved in and we were off and running. It was it was it was scary. But I just like, it's okay. It's just the way it's supposed to be. And I was not next level soling. I was. I know, I think I'd might have started reading Autobiography of a Yogi at that point. I had not gotten through it yet. Because it was too woowoo for me at that time. So it was not like, I had all this stuff in me. I just knew. Sure. And that's something you can't articulate with the ego, you just can't

Matt Kahn 32:21
No you can't. Well, and so I think the advice, you know, is, if there's any part of you that when you're meeting someone this is I don't know, that means do not move past a friendship or an acquaintance ship until it's a yes. So we don't lean into a yes. Until it's yes. I don't know means right now. I don't know means no. And it could change, of course, but I don't know is the same as a no, that's the best advice. The other thing that I think is interesting is that people get caught up in their critical thinking mind, right? Which what what the way I would describe the ego is a tendency to lean on critical thinking as your minds mode of operation right and spiritual. Well, it's very common to say, Oh, the mind is the problem. The mind is not the problem. The mind is a genius, creation, right, if you have a high performance vehicle, but you only know how to drive it in certain modes, you're not going to get the most out of it. So in the same way, the mind is incredible. But when you're only using critical thinking, you're using a very small bandwidth, right. And so I think instead of trying to go How do I know this is the one the one can't be denied? Yes. So if you're not sure, try breaking up with them. I say a jokingly at the same time where Joy and I have neither of us could deny we even both walked away going. Okay, this is this is really Yeah, this isn't much something here. This is much we're in Sedona it's probably the vortex whatever. Maybe it's the celery juice I promised myself I'd never buy. Maybe it's some combination of things. And we both tried to rationalize our way out of this critical thinking, right? Yeah, but the one can't be denied.

Alex Ferrari 34:17
That's such a beautiful and you're absolutely is actually a t shirt, the one that cannot be denied. Absolutely true. Because when you're when you do meet them, this is just there's this whole there's magnetic thing that you have and you just like, Oh, you're my person. That's right. Oh, you're you're my person. Yeah, period. You're my person. Got it. That's right. Got it. So now, it's not gonna be smooth sailing this entire time. Now, we're human beings. We all have our baggage, we all have our stuff cheer. But when you're with them, it just it's like this, that runs like this a little bit as opposed to Rocky, at least from my experience. I've been on both versions.

Matt Kahn 34:58
Absolutely. Well, I think You know, the ego will say, Who do I desire? Right? That's that's the framework Who do I desire? But I think the deeper question is, Who do I desire growing with? Yeah, joy and I desire growing with each other, you and your wife desire growing with each other. So what Joey and I go through in our lives, I mean, I have never wanted children. I have never had children. She has two grown children. I'm now a stepfather. I'm a step grandfather. I'm the dad to a puppy, a cat and a dog. And I went from being this guy who was like, I don't think Lone Wolf Wolf baby, right? I'm gonna dedicate myself to my service to the world, my, you know, I help other people with their lives in that way. And I had this list of here's what I won't do. She destroyed that, because the one can't be denied. And now I'm stepfather. I love the role I'm playing. The children I have, you know, they're grown. They're adults, but we have a great relationship. And I'm finding myself growing in a level of embodiment. That is such an interesting integration of my entire journey of awakenings. And and you know, of waking up and growing up and all these course creative experiences. And on paper, I would have said, nope, nope, nope, no, but the one Oh, can't be denied.

Alex Ferrari 36:37
Listen, so I promise you if my mindless was on the on the trial, and my wife was looking at it before meeting me, she's like, Oh, absolutely. He has a lifesize Yoda. What's a Yoda? Which is a true story, by the way. Yeah, she called her Jota for a while. Jota Jota. Cuz she had no it's like old lady sitting in the corner. I swear to God. And she was talking to a friend of hers and her friends like you will refer to him as Master Yoda. And she's like you to you all together you geeks? Oh, yeah, it's long story. So on paper? I didn't definitely make sense in her world. Yeah, question filth filmmaker doesn't have a steady job goes from job to job money comes in? And I want to know, no, no way. No way. But the one, right.

Matt Kahn 37:22
So if people are going on dates, and trying to piecemeal relationships together and trying to make it work. And then the other thing is, if you're too busy being in relationship with people's potential, and not being aware of the reality, and here's what here's what I did my past. I'll be honest about this. Which is a funny phrase, be honest. So I've been lying the whole time. Exactly. All right. But now we're gonna finally be honest,

Alex Ferrari 37:47

Matt Kahn 37:51
We get to talk for a second. But you know, I would be in relationship with the potential of someone. And what I didn't realize my personal life because somebody is your personal life, the things you learn are different than what you're teaching on stage. Took me a second. And what I realized was, not only am I in relationship with a potential that this person is not ready to step into being, what potential I'm actually seeing them is the reflection of my potential. I'm actually confusing my light for their reality. And then I get in a relationship with them. And then all of a sudden, the person I thought I knew changes overnight. And that's when life says, Actually, we're just introducing you to the person you confused with the light you see in their presence. And so it's amazing. Is that when we let I don't know, be a no, and only yeses, yes. It's easier to feel the "Ohh Yeah" or the this is the person I meant to be with. And I had gotten to a place where I was not sure I was actually ever going to be in a relationship. So even though Joy and I have met and were both each other's one, she stepped into the one who was going to be the best version of her in a relationship it was meant to be I stepped into the one I was meant to be, whether the marriage was gonna happen or I was gonna even meet her. The real one that both of us met where within ourselves.

Alex Ferrari 39:33
If you're enjoying this conversation, I invite you to go deeper down the rabbit hole with me. On Next Level Soul TV. It's packed with exclusive content like live special guests Q and A's daily podcast commercial free access to the entire next level soul catalog early access to episodes before they air and special meditations you won't find anywhere else. We will be adding new exclusive content every month. Plus, you can connect with me during my monthly live streams just go to and join our soulful community today, I'll see you on the inside.

Matt Kahn 40:09
So I stepped into being the soulmate, whether or not my beloved counterpart was meant to show up in this lifetime, she did the same thing that brought us together. But we were also very detached and settled on whether I meet that person or not stepping into my fullest potential, was, might just be exactly the love that this lifetime has for me. And I gotten to a full acceptance of that. And very clear. And now our relationship is that we get to receive the love of the other person from these full versions of ourselves. So I think that, you know, when we're looking for our beloved, it's one thing to kind of be less than or insufficient and lonely, and then expect another person's can to change how you feel. But if we take the real spiritual journey, the alchemy journey of becoming our highest self and form, that doesn't necessarily mean the next day you're going to meet that person, right? It means whether you're meant to meet the person or not, the oneness of love that you want to be in union with will be within you either way.

Alex Ferrari 41:26
Couldn't have put it better myself. So where can where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Matt Kahn 41:30
Well, well, thank you. By the way, my websites, If you sign up for the free newsletter we send out, we also send you a link to our free documentary that was created. It's a documentary that you literally experience healing, while you watch it, and I think actually the URL for that is And it's a free documentary that we created as a gift for the world. And you can check out all the upcoming events that I'm doing, my wife and I are doing together. And really, you know, this is just it's time for the world to reconnect as one. And whether we're spiritual beings, not spiritual beings, however we identify ourselves to be, we're all included. We all have a vital role in this ascension. And we literally need the light and the power of every individual to help this world evolve. And so it's incredible when when, you know, the spiritual community used to be these like little fringe groups. But the most intentional spirit spiritual community is earth. Because we're all spirit. And so it's a beautiful thing to start even just watching the beginning stages of this intentional community remember itself.

Alex Ferrari 42:13
And if I can end on this, can we make #sniffchef?

Matt Kahn 43:01
Sniff chef? Yes. I'm one of those sniffer chefs. That's how I feel when I say channel. I'm one of those channels. I'm one of those channels.

Alex Ferrari 43:12
Sniff channel,

Matt Kahn 43:15
Hashtag sniff channel. It's a thing.

Alex Ferrari 43:18
Let's make it a thing everybody.

Matt Kahn 43:19
It's a thing now.

Alex Ferrari 43:20
Brother you're like a brother from another mother. Thank you so much for coming, man. Appreciate you.

Matt Kahn 43:25
Much love.

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