Matt Kahn is the author of the brand new book All for Love, published by Sounds True.
Love thy neighbor. Lovingkindness. The love of the universe. From traditional religions to new spirituality, love is the foundation on which all practice rests. We all embrace the idea of love … and then we get on social media. Or read the news. Or visit family.
Whether divided by race, gender, sexual orientation, identity preference, or opinion, the incredible moral and social chasms in our world have become a source of pain and confusion for so many people. We know that love and unity are beautiful ideals, but the question remains: How do we get there?
In what may be his boldest and bravest book yet, bestselling author Matt Kahn invites us to see our differences as golden opportunities to explore the depth of our interconnectedness. Offering wise insights and tangible tools, Matt teaches us how to remain aligned with our highest truths and values while we hold space for the experiences of others.
Throughout the book, Matt shares ten essential principles―mercy, worthiness, bravery, and more―that help us access the highest and most loving qualities within ourselves and those around us. Each chapter contains personal stories and real-world applications, guiding us to reach into our own hearts and give one another the respect, validation, and encouragement needed to make it through the evolutionary shifts before us―shifts into greater unity and greater love.
He is also the author of bestselling books Whatever Arises Love That; Everything Is Here To Help You; and The Universe Always Has a Plan. His books have been translated into more than a dozen different languages around the world. In 2020, Matt was named as one of the 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People in the World by Watkins Magazine.
He is a spiritual teacher and highly attuned empathic healer who has become a YouTube sensation with his healing and often humorous videos. More than 20 million YouTube channel viewers are finding comfort, inspiration, and relief from the challenges of daily life through his intuitive updates and helpful, uplifting heart-centered messages.
Right-click here to download the MP3
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 085
Matt Kahn 0:00
Oh it was during the time of the George Floyd incident when I wrote this I remember looking at the world and what the world was going through and I thought, you know, the world is changing radically, radically and at a very fast rate and of course what's happening in the world is not where the world will stay. But we're moving through some really interesting upheavals and times of collective healing and I thought how will spiritual beings How will all beings any being navigate this type of reality
Alex Ferrari 0:38
I've been able to partner with Mindvalley to present you guys FREE Masterclass is between 60 and 90 minutes, covering Mind Body Soul Relationships, and Conscious Entrepreneurship, taught by spiritual masters, yogi's spiritual thought leaders and best selling authors. Just head over to nextlevelsoul.com/free. I like to welcome back to the show, returning champion Matt Kahn. How you doing Matt?
Matt Kahn 1:14
Returning champion? Oh my god, that was that was great.
Alex Ferrari 1:18
How are you doing my friend?
Matt Kahn 1:20
I'm well as a returning champion. I'm doing wonderful. Feeling great. I'm feeling great. I'm feeling very champion like
Alex Ferrari 1:27
Very good, my friend. Very good. So you were on our some of our earlier episodes a while ago, and you were a big hit, obviously, because you're amazing. And a lot of our audience was asking me to when is Matt coming back? And like soon? Soon soon. He's coming back soon. And here you are, sir, to talk about your new book, all for love. Because God knows, we need a little bit more of that in the world right now.
Matt Kahn 1:53
The world needs some off a little bit.
Alex Ferrari 1:54
Just a bit. Not much, though. Just just a dab will do you as they say. So for people who didn't listen to that first episode, can you just tell us a little bit about how you started your spiritual journey?
Matt Kahn 2:04
Sure. Well, I've been an empath most of my life, which means I've been confusing my feelings and experiences with the experiences of others and trying to connect while managing most of my relationships. And I was successful in surviving that life. You know, I was raised in a family of beautiful people, but much emotional volatility. And it was just hard for me to understand where my experiences began, and where other people's ended. And through a series of very profound spiritual experiences, I came to realize that I have the ability to feel into people's experiences. And then I have the ability to be in tune and helping people be more in tune with their emotions, their feelings, and to heal at a rather radical rate. And so it's been a very incredible, lifelong journey, but one that helped me realize that my life was, you know, training me for my championship run as you introduced me to, to really help champion for the world, the ability for us to become more emotionally intelligent to surrender our, you know, defensive armor, and to really, at this time in history, step forward as heart centered beings, and to see that as we become more heart centered, the world at large starts to become more conscious, and all of the karmic epidemic things that we look at as the problems of the world actually begin to reverse themselves as we start to co create a more conscious reality.
Alex Ferrari 3:31
Fantastic answer, sir. Fantastic, yes. Now, what made you want to what inspired you to write your new book all for love?
Matt Kahn 3:39
Oh, my goodness, you know, it was during the time of the George Floyd incident, when I wrote this, I remember looking at the world and what the world was going through. And I find, you know, the world is changing radically, radically and at a very fast rate. And of course, what's happening in the world is not where the world will stay. But we're moving through some really interesting upheavals and times of collective healing. And I thought, How will spiritual beings How will all beings anything, navigate this type of reality? How do we make it through this type of shift and come out the other end more heart centered and more connected? And I began asking the universe, what does the world really need right now and I instantly began channeling the outline for all for love. And I began channeling What is the theme of all for love, which is the transformative power of holding space, which is a revolutionary approach to how we can perceive ourselves and communicate with others, from the understanding and awareness that everyone is on a profound healing journey, whether they're aware of it or not. And so it was really an opportunity for me to write a book, an owner's manual, a blueprint of how do we really activate the deepest level of empathy and compassion. But how do we allow our sensitivities to make us stronger, more empowered, and how do we connect with other people without having to agree or disagree? How do we really care? Create a Connection of oneness and an ever divided world. And and as the backdrop of the book, I shared some of the deepest stories of my upbringing, and really wove through the book, a really clear view of how I've become the person I've become, which is not just my story, it's all of our stories. So it's, it's one of the deepest books I've ever written. And it's one that I am so incredibly proud of.
Alex Ferrari 5:26
Now, I think you've talked about this in the book, but I wanted to ask you, so many of us worry about what other people think of us so much that it is stifling that it stops our life journey, it stops us it brings pain and suffering to ourselves. All in did, by the way, all of this lives, most of the times lives within us. Like yes, sometimes people say things. But other times it's the perceived idea of what they're thinking of us, or the perceived idea of what they're about to say, behind our back or something like that, which isn't insanity, and it's in its own right. Why do we allow ourselves to be? What is it about humanity in general, that needs to be feel accepted by others, and really value what other people think of us in there's a healthy amount of that then needs a healthy amount, you don't want to be a wreck loose, but what I'm talking about as a toxic side of things?
Matt Kahn 6:23
Well, you know, it's interesting, because in our current society, you know, a lot of it's driven by a sense of popularity, you know, which is basically a world that has been conditioned around the facet of reality television. Right. So each person is now trying to be its own program, trying to fight for its own marketing space and its own viewership. And it's interesting when we got to think I'm I don't think this is a word we commoditize or we are, is that a word commoditize. ourselves as a product would absolutely make ourselves into an object. And I think that was to answer your question, and answer it in a very roundabout way. So let's imagine that we live in a reality where everyone around you, in one moment agrees, you are good enough. We like you, we approve of you five star review, all across the board. Everyone loves everything about you. If you feel into that experience, what is the instinct that arises in your body, what we feel is a sense of relief. But if we tune into the relief, and this is what's so extraordinary about it, the relief is now I can take a break from obsessing over myself. And so what's really interesting is underneath all the superficial levels of trying to impress other people and be all things to all people, we think that we have to have that everyone has to be approving of us, so that we can take a break from this lifelong obsession with being concerned with ourselves. Because the truth is, we were concerned about ourselves, we're in a state of survival. And when we're in a state of survival, we're not connecting with ourselves. So the right intention is that every person has a desire to be liberated from endless despair of self concern. So they can move from self concern to self connection. But the unconscious part is that people are going about it by I will be able to do that once everyone approves of me. So the spiritual invitation is how can I shift from self concern to self connection without having to come through the approval of those outside of me? And that's really a radical invitation.
Alex Ferrari 8:44
So let me ask you that because you know, in the you and I are both of us, sent Marilla vintage. So we we remember the days without internet without social media, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, in the age that we're in right now, when you're saying that we're all commoditizing ourselves as a product, you know, we hear so much about you have to create a brand around yourself. And again, not everybody but there's a certain there's a certain you know, commoditization, even in basic stuff, even if you're on Facebook, or Tik Tok, or Instagram or Twitter, that is looking for followers for likes for approval. When when we you and I were growing up, there's three channels, three channels, I mean, shows used to get 20 million regularly 20 million 30 million viewers regularly. Now that's the Super Bowl. Right? That's, that's the Super Bowl now. Whereas before, so there was there was such a minut amount of content that everyone focused on, where now there is endless amounts of content. It's almost as expansive as the universe itself, and is it and it's continuing to expand on a on a second by second basis. New people are joining you people are doing this new people are doing that. So how is it? How? What? How can we reconcile a world where we're all looking for attention? We're all looking for likes, and we're all looking for approval outside of ourselves. It seems like it's a toxic toxic recipe, which I feel that that's one of the reasons why we're in where we're in right now. But with on the same side, on the different side of the coin, that same power can be used for good to release a message like you do with your work like I do with my work. Absolutely. We're trying to heal the world, we're trying to feed the world good things, through our quote unquote, brands, product, things like that, that we're putting out there. Our product is love our product is educating and helping people through their problems and on life's journey. So it could be fixed on both ways. But there's more, there's more on the other side of the coin that there is under the coin, I think we're trying to switch the pendulum. So what do you think of that?
Matt Kahn 11:00
It reminds me of a teaching I did a little bit ago, couple years ago called the apathy of options. And I did a teaching where I said the example was Imagine going to a restaurant and looking at the lunch menu, and there's 20 options, and you wind up choosing the kale salad as your option, then, and you have an OK experience. Then in a parallel dimension, you go to a different restaurant that has three options for lunch, and you choose the kale salad. Surprisingly, the one that came from the menu with less options is going to be more enjoyable, even if it's the same salad as long with 20 options. And the reason for that is when we have more options because we live in a society that believes more options equals more freedom. The truth is more options creates more indecision, more indecision creates more of a sense of incompleteness or unfulfillment. And then we tell ourselves, I'm not fulfilled in here. So I have to look outside of myself to find what I'm not finding in myself. So the truth is, if we apply that to validation from others, if having less menu options, makes the kale salad tastes better, because less options creates more of an opportunity for film fulfillment. That means the more people we're reaching out to for fulfillment is going to make us be more insecure and doubtful of ourselves. And when we seek that fulfillment only in ourselves, because we're seeking it from a source with the least amount of options, being one with our own selves, we're actually going to start to find the fulfillment that no amount of partner, friend or family is designed to give us on a regular basis. So the interesting thing is we live in a world where more options is perceived as more freedom. And all that does is create more discontent, and the sense of looking outside of yourself, for what is always within yourself, for you to find once you've given yourself less options.
Alex Ferrari 12:51
So in other words, it's like a spiritual Costco is what you're talking about. Yes. Because Costco has one, maybe two options per category. That's right. You don't you can't choose 50 Catch ups. There's generally just the one
Matt Kahn 13:07
1 2 thousand pound tub.
Alex Ferrari 13:10
Yes, there is. It's Yes, it's a 2000 pound sub, but there's one, there's one, one or two or tops like you know, there's one black bean one. That's it. That's it. So And yes, you have to buy a you know, a pilot but but there's only one. So this is just using this as a semi joke, but semi real. When you go to Costco you feel fulfilled, you don't feel there's no confusion, you go in, you buy you get out and you feel great about things most of the times, but when you go to like to a Walmart or one of these big box stores, when there's literally a row of 100 different catch ups or Whole Foods like 100 different organic catch ups like which one should I get? Should I get the one that's, you know, farm raised catch up, or cage free catch up, ah, free, free range catch up, like farm to table catch up, farm to table catch up.
Matt Kahn 14:07
The only time I use it
Alex Ferrari 14:08
The only catch up I like is when the tomato naturally falls because if you pick it, that's murder, but it's bad. It's so funny. It's funny, but it's true. But yeah, so it's kind of like a spiritual COSCO in many ways is when and I love what you said is like you're looking for the one and the one is you inside of you. How do you connect to that higher self? How do you connect to that one? What's, what are some tools? What are some things that we could do to connect it and kind of cut through all the right the garbage that we carry along with us?
Matt Kahn 14:42
Sure. That's a great question. Well, the way we connect with the one, the one I am the one I am that lives within all beings, but the one I am that begins with what you discover in yourself. We have to build a relationship with something that is constant and reliable. So if we look at our reality, we say A external reality is not reliable. In fact, the only reliability about external reality is how constantly it changes what we find to be reliable throughout our lives, what has never ditched a moment of our lives and what has always been there as the breath. So when we build a relationship with our breath, we are uniting or returning to the one I am dwelling within us and dwelling within all beings. But before we can know ourselves as the one I am in all forms, we have to know it within ourselves. So we have to exit the Burning Man festival of infinite options, we have to have a seat at Disneyland while everyone's running around taking the rides, right, our seat of enlightenment is our ride of enlightenment is the bench of Disneyland. And we sit down, and we breathe. And we breathe as a way of saying to ourselves, I am going to be as present with my breath as my breath is with me. And that's the moment where we return to Unity Consciousness. And the rate at which someone wakes up and realizes themselves to be the love of the universe in physical form, is truly dependent upon how reliable and how consistent of a relationship, that person or that one has with their breath. And it literally starts, expands and ends in that profound simplicity.
Alex Ferrari 16:36
And can you also work by going a little bit deeper than just the breath, meditation and quieting quieting things around you to to allow yourself to connect to the source,
Matt Kahn 16:49
I would say that's an I would, I would say that's unnecessary, because we're giving the power to the noise of the outside. And we're saying that I need something from the outside to be different. So I can have a different internal experience, or even the most external internal experience is your own mind, I need my mind to be silent so that I can be more in my heart. And there are people that have that genuine experience. But it's actually in a sickness perception. Because it's still because if we're if looking for validation and other people's approval is what is what creates this discontent, than needing things around us to be silenced. So that we can be centered is just that reframed in a different way.
Alex Ferrari 17:34
I understand what you mean, I understand I understand your point of view on that. But I mean, but the concept of meant me you meditate, right?
Matt Kahn 17:43
I do. But I meditate in a very different way. My meditation style is whether the mind now my mind is not noisy at all. But that's not something I did willfully. That's something that happens spontaneously, but my meditation style and the way I teach it as love the mind, when it's noisy. Love the mind when it's quiet. Love the heart, when it is congested, love the heart when it's open. Because in the beginning, there are experiences people have where they meditate, and they go from profound noise to profound, quiet. And that's a wonderful contrast. But it creates this extreme distortion, where now people need things to always be quiet in order to have that kind of connection. And it creates two locations, it creates noise and it creates quiet or it creates unconsciousness, and consciousness. And what I want to do in my work is I want to break through all of the duality of going from one place to another place. So radically speaking, when we breathe, or when we love, we breathe, if there's no ice, we breathe if there's no noise. And what's interesting as an inquiry about this, because meditation can be taught so many different ways. But meditation is a form of self inquiry. And so what I think is interesting is when people ask themselves, when things are noisy, does it ever interrupt the breath? And just look? And if things are quiet, does it ever interrupt the breath? And what starts to happen slowly, but surely, is that your point of view of the moment is not coming from the interpretation of mind, or how the moment reminds you of a past trauma. But it comes from your new point of view, which is actually the breaths perspective, which is that everything is happening, everything is changing. But if nothing permanently interrupts the breath from coming and going, then we start to settle into more of an all as well perspective of what's happening in our reality. And so I like to teach an inclusive form of meditation versus an exclusive form.
Alex Ferrari 20:00
Fair enough, fair enough. Now, so many of us deal with anger, yes, angry about life not going our way. We're angry, this person's not doing that we're angry that the taxman is knocking on our door, we're angry at, you know, everything, we're angry all the time. How any what advice you have for dealing with anger and letting that anger go. And in, I'll give you my, my, my perception of it is, you have to, for me, at least I needed to identify why I was angry, because anger is just a symptom is not the right it's not the cause. And you could take, you know, quote, unquote, drugs to damp down the symptoms, but you don't know what's causing it. So once you understand, if you do the self work, and go inside and find out, Oh, I'm angry, because, you know, this person took away my teddy bear when I was seven. And that snowballed into I hate this, or I'm angry about that. It's, it's just an example, you know, but, but once you understand that, then you can start working on it. And then that kind of relieves it as for me in my life, but I'd love to hear what you think.
Matt Kahn 21:14
You know, anger is such an interesting thing. And I think that because I teach from such a loving perspective, and for me, it's really important to always teach and look at, you know, there are things that we do let go, there are things that we don't harbor grudges over. There are things over time that we learn to kind of release. But I think we've gotten into a place especially on the spiritual journey, where we're a little too trigger happy with the releasing in the letting go. And it becomes more of a bypass a pushing away, or a trying to avoid in some ways, and I think that when we look at anger, it's such a powerful emotion, and people are so afraid of being hurt by it or hurting other people, especially with our upbringing and our wounds. It's no surprise that, you know, that's the one emotion people want to ditch the most. But what the way I look at things from a loving perspective is that everything is of the highest value as an evolutionary agent of consciousness. And so we have to look at what is really anger. Anger is the fury of fermented passion, that based on a trauma that happens in our lives, there's a certain part of us that shuts down. And when it shuts down in us, it shuts down our inner artist, because the consciousness within us is an expression of art and creation. And so at a certain point, we stopped being artists, artistic, creative, visionaries, we stop dreaming. And we get shut down into survival mode, to try to live in brief for the attention and validation and approval of our family or whoever else is around us. So the anger is really the theory of the inner artist that says, Let me out and let me create. And so we find that the anger might be triggered by people might be triggered by incidents might be triggered by situations. But the true anger is that my artist wants to be set free. And so because creative self expression, is housed in the sacral chakra in our gut, and that is the chakra below the heart chakra. We find that by loving ourselves. And again, when you're angry, we're not trying to go from anger to love. We're just trying to be the safest place for anger to be expressed as we become more mindful and present. Meditation is certainly a technique that helps us to find that balance in that space, we can actually start to express our anger in mindful ways. And we can remember that there's a creative artist in us that likes to use our feelings, and our torment, and our frustrations as fertile ingredients for creativity. And the more we all return to letting our inner artist be the expresser of our feelings is the moment this world starts to elevate, and a depth of emotional intelligence. And so my answer is, we love ourselves more, not less, to make it safe for anger to be felt. And we allow anger to be the creative inspiration for what the inner artists can create, because we only hurt ourselves with anger and harm other people, when our inner artist is still in prison.
Alex Ferrari 24:32
And can you tell me how people can identify these traumas? Because so many of these traumas that we've had, and most of the time in our childhood is hidden from us? Right? We really don't know why we do a lot of the things that we do or why we're angry about certain things, because we just don't have the toolset to to actually do the digging work maybe later in life. But what is how can you it Identify those, those traumas that are causing the havoc inside that are locking down our artists. And so absolutely
Matt Kahn 25:06
Well, I think the first questions we have to ask ourselves, you know, whether it's on a reoccurring basis? What is the most difficult feeling that I feel most often? What is the feeling that keeps coming back and coming back and coming back? And then more importantly, where in my body? Do I always feel it? So we start to understand our traumas by locating it. So first, what am I feeling? And where am I feeling it? Am I feeling it in my body? My feeling in my heart? Am I feeling it? And like someone stabbed me in the back in a moment of timeless betrayal? Am I feeling it my mind? Where do I feel it and some people will say, I don't know where I feel it because we need to take time to actually be with ourselves to be more in tune with ourselves. So in a world that is constantly changing where, you know, I think technology is an amazing thing. But I think the the specific imbalances that we are living in a world where technology is advancing faster than the emotional intelligence of the human species. And so as we start to, personally grow on an emotional level, as we started to all take more time to really build a relationship with ourselves, and not let technology be such a distraction of convenience, we actually start to feel into our bodies, we start to feel where pain is, where is it located in my body. And as we just sit with the pain, we let pain on its own timeframe. Share with us that story, share with us that secrets, but we have to sit with it. Our feelings are like a child that we are fostering, who came from an abusive household that hides in the closet, and we are going to sit outside the closet and let it come out on its timeframe. So it's really the wounds within us that are actually teaching us how to slow down and build a relationship of presence with ourselves.
Alex Ferrari 27:05
Now, in your book, you talk about boundaries are an act of self love. Yes, I love that idea. Can you kind of dive into that a little bit?
Matt Kahn 27:13
Yeah, boundaries are an act of self love. Because we like to think of boundaries as the restrictions I place on other people so they can't hurt me. And in extreme situations, that might be true. But boundaries are really about the act of awareness of ethical value, meaning I'm going to agree to go into this experience with my family, hypothetically, I'm going to be very open to whatever anyone wants to share, I don't impose onto anyone the expectation of what they're going to share how they're going to see me, it's going to be what it's going to be. And if at a certain point, whether it's too much time spent in one location, or it's just the interaction reaches its boiling point. Boundaries, say, Huh, that's all the energy, I have to maintain my highest level of maturity. If I stay, I can feel myself starting to dip into defenses, I can still feel myself regress in behavior. And I'm going to remove myself from a situation as I notice, the need to endure this moment is chipping away at my ability to be my highest ethical self. And so boundaries are really about noticing, like if you had a child, and you went to a family function, and the child is happy, and then the child won't stop crying, you say I'm sorry, we got to take our baby home. I'm so sorry. We have to go. That seems very acceptable. But what isn't acceptable for people to have that relationship with their inner child like, Hey, I'd love to stay more. But little Matt is just having a day and yeah. Boundaries are
Alex Ferrari 28:52
And you guys are all toxic, and you're sucking all the energy out of me. So I gotta go. And then they say, Oh, is it us?
Matt Kahn 28:58
No, no, no, you're so high vibrational, I can't handle it, I need to take a break. not spoil myself with all this richness, and I need to, but it's really about boundaries are really about being aware of your limits. And I think what's amazing is that we find so much inspiration and discovering our limitless nature, which is inspirational and motivational. We can do anything if you put your mind to it, we can accomplish anything. That's true. But bounce with that inspiration is actually the recognition of our limits. And I think what's interesting is that most people are too embarrassed to admit they have limits than to actually use them as guidelines for interaction. And I think the more we understand our limitations, the more we become mature and present to our boundaries. And then we that we start opening up to limitless potential, but in order to do that we have to actually know our limitations.
Alex Ferrari 29:58
Well, I think it's also that Uh, you know, you have to be very comfortable within your own skin to understand and admit that you have limitations, which that's right. Every human being does limitations, because if you told me Alex, I need you to put in a bathroom, I'd be like, I wish you the best with that. I, I want to try to remodel my when another bathroom. God forbid, I remodeled an extra room when I was in my 20s. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I could just put the new floor down. I'll rip out the old carpet. I took a week off of work. I was alone and no girlfriend. I was like, Yeah, I'll just just. And the funny thing is my neighbor's a handyman. And he was like, and he was seeing me do what I was doing. He's like, biting his tongue. But he's like, Hey, man, do you gotta I can't get these corners right on the floor. Can you? Can you help me out? It was a disaster to master the disaster because I didn't at that point didn't go. Yeah, this is not I really shouldn't be doing this.
Matt Kahn 31:01
Well. And you know, either. That is interesting. Because we would say I have to be more comfortable in my skin in order to be aware of my limitations. And what's interesting is we don't become comfortable in our skin until we honor our limitations. And it's backwards, because our ego says to us, if I admit my limitations, I'm going to confirm why I don't have a right to be comfortable in my skin. But the truth is, the reason why this phrase is the truth shall set you free, is that you're only afraid of admitting your limitations for as long as you remain silent. And don't admit it to yourself. The minute you confess, here's my limitation. Here's my growing edge. Here's what I'm not so awesome. At the minute, you say that you literally open yourself up to a moment of freedom. And that's actually the moment you start to feel relief, even though the ego is horrified that it is viewing itself as not the biggest superhero and all of existence. And so,
Alex Ferrari 31:55
Or the thing that you're trying to do beat your ego down to a place that it cannot even withstand it anymore. Like math.
Matt Kahn 32:04
Alex Ferrari 32:06
Matt Kahn 32:07
Numbers, like the best meditation because numbers don't change. They just are stagnant. They don't they don't do anything but show you how well or not well, you are using them. And it's perfect.
Alex Ferrari 32:21
But it's so funny, because in today's world, some people are going two plus two is four. That's that's, that's, that's up to you. It could be six, it doesn't have to be four. That's up to opinion. And that's that's a little bit of the insanity that we're living in right now is that things like math, you can get an argument, though, I will tell you there is something called New Math. I have kids, they brought home some stuff. And they go, how do you add that up? Or how do you do the multiplication on that? And they showed it to me, I'm like, That's new math. That's not the math I knew. And I would show them my math. They're like, that's not the way it gets the same place. It's just new techniques to get to the same place. Totally. But I was like, I've good luck to you, my dear. I have no idea. Talk to your mother, I talked to your mother. It's a joke. It was like that, that new math they're teaching it there is I can validate it, there is new math.
Matt Kahn 33:17
As long as two plus two is four,
Alex Ferrari 33:19
Eventually, eventually how you get there is up to you. You could put the four in the front and the two and the answer will always be the same. But there's a different way.
Matt Kahn 33:28
But in 2022, we say two plus two is four, and someone says that's your projection. So we have some things to work out a little bit, but we're gonna
Alex Ferrari 33:36
Oh my god, do we ever I mean, yeah,
Matt Kahn 33:40
Alex Ferrari 33:42
I mean, God, I mean, I don't want to get controversial with flat earthers. But Jesus, like at a certain point, you just gotta go. Here's a photo. No, that's not photo. No, but there's a photo. Go across the ocean and let me know when you get to the edge. Things like that. It's just insane. It's insane where we are.
Matt Kahn 34:06
And here's the good news about that. The good news of that is the denial of something and again, everything can be photoshopped. And so it is kind of a weird reality where everything's kind of, but But I will say fakes and stuff like that. Yeah, I get but I will say like saying, Hey, here's a picture of someone saying that's not a picture like, that's, that's actually gaslighting. And so the good news about gaslighting is that it's become such a fundamental term along with narcissism in our society, that we're going to be moving through this very, very quickly and returning back to a world where, by the way, there is structure. There is justice. There is a reason there's room for interpretation. But there are rules and there are statutes and principles that we all agree on models that agree on which is mutual respect, inclusivity equality education and food and cleanser Can water for all human beings. And really, if we really want to just kind of broaden this, the greatest focus that we are going to continually return to, is that the fact that there are few people that have a lot, and a lot of people that have few is what creates the disparity that lowers the vibration of our standard of conduct, and makes us strangers amongst each other, instead of family members of a global community.
Alex Ferrari 35:31
Well, let me ask you a question. Because this is something that I've heard so many times, as an as, as a thing. If all the wealth in the world was evenly distributed tomorrow, within five years, it would all be back in the same hands. Interesting, because people like you go and you go to the lottery idea. People win the lottery, and majority of the people who win lotteries destroy their lives, because they don't understand how to deal, right. And they also have pre preconceived notions of money, they have different traumas and all this kind of stuff where we, if you grew up with money, or you actually built that up, you know, the rules of how to deal with large, you know, if I gave some if I gave somebody $100 million, that has never had never made more than $50,000 a year, right? It's, it's interesting to see what would happen. And I actually, early in my career, I actually did a, a series on of commercials on the on the lottery in my state, where I actually saw interviews with 10 lottery winners. Yeah. And I saw what happened to them. Absolutely. It was one, it was one, I'll never forget this, this old guy won it. Literally put it in the bank. Nothing changed in his life. And he he completely, just, I'm not nope, nope, I'm going to work. I'm not quitting my job. Right, right, because of my pension. I'm not kidding you. He had like 20,000,020 5 million in the bank. Awesome. It was and he's like, You know what all my kids are going to college, or paying for that. If my wife walks by a store and wants to buy a dress, we buy it for her now. And there was that extreme it was That's a complete extreme of, in my opinion, a waste, you could have done so much with those resources in the world. Then you go to the other extreme, which was this couple, who literally put a photo of their trailer that they used to live in nothing wrong with that. But they came from a trailer park, they framed it. And they said, after we got our money, we lost all of our friends. We lost all of our family. And the only people we trust, wait for it. Only three people in our lives. The priest, the accountant, and the lawyer. Those were the three people in their lives. And they and they just basically traveled the world excess, just excess excess excess that the house they lived in was obscene, they just it was just so and I saw where that was going, they were like they're gonna, they're gonna destroy each other, they're gonna destroy themselves, like in a year or two, they'll be gone. So it's fascinating that idea of because of also just our own our own minds, our own traumas or on things that we deal with that we might not. So I was just curious what you thought of that idea?
Matt Kahn 38:21
Well, I think that if I were to redistribute the wealth of the world, I wouldn't take all the money that a lot of few people have and give it like it wouldn't just cut checks and distributed equally, what I actually would do or when I feel like needs to be done, what feels like the right move, is that it's not about distributing money to other people, as much as it is distributing basic needs to the people that don't have them. No, agreed. Agree, I think that when I tune into things, and I agree, money doesn't change a lot of things, you know, which is why when I'm talking to someone who's living on the street, whether I give them money, or I don't, which is just based on the moment and how I feel or if I want to buy them lunch or even just have a conversation, ask them their name and talk to them and just let them know, thanks for being a part of you're alive. You're, I see you and give them the gift of dignity, which I do all the time. It's very important. I find that fiscal dollars doesn't really change the mentality, which is what you're pointing to what I think creates the mentality, that van abused as money or as reckless with it is people's historic blueprint for how much of their needs were or weren't met. And I think that as human beings, whether we grew up with, you know, in humble beginnings, or whatever the story of our beginning was, I think that the importance of fulfilling our own emotional needs, and then expand Ending are consciousness to be able to say, what else do I need and what is within my power, to provide myself with that to really focus on what I need, instead of always kind of being lost in the fantasy of what I desire. I think these are the responsible shifts that the world as a world of individuals are going through. And I think my book offer love, the transformative power of holding space is an opportunity for people to go through this like vortex of transformation. And to really start asking the question, why do I have the power to provide myself to give myself the basic needs so that I can expand my perception and start to step forward and be more of a guiding light and a world? Finding the root of its own ethical nature?
Alex Ferrari 40:49
Man, I think the core of a lot of things you write about is love, obviously, yeah. But how can we become more compassionate not only with others, with ourselves,
Matt Kahn 41:02
Compassion begins with perspective, perspective of every pain that we have endured, is the pain that all beings endure, that whether we are identifying ourselves as the victims of trauma, whether we feel as if we have been, you know, hurt by the predators who perpetuate trauma, I think that it's an interesting equalizer, when we realize the pain that we carry from being victimized, is equal to the pain being carried in the body of a predator or victimizer. And as we in the world, kind of wake up out of this weird hypnosis, of taking sides. This is good, this is bad. It's already an obvious thing to know what is ethical and what isn't ethical. We all know what is abusive, and what isn't abusive. But what we haven't done as a world has started to treat this world like a global village, where if there is an issue in this world, it is the it is the issue of the village. And it is the village that comes together to equally offer healing and justice to both sides, whether they're hurt, are the people who hurt others. And so I think we talk about compassion. Compassion is where we come out of the unsuspecting righteousness that is developed out of surviving atrocity and harm. And we come into a perspective that says, I'm not the only one that is hurting. And the one that hurt me is also hurting. And there's also parts of our defenses that say, the person that hurt me, doesn't deserve to be healed. They don't ever deserve to be healed. And that's something that compassion helps us to heal within ourselves. Because one of the greatest ways that we transform ourselves and truly heal the wounds that we carry, is to equally in our minds, pray and intend for the healing of those who harmed us. And that might seem like a big leap for a lot of people, we're going to come to a point in history, where there's only one way this is going to go, and it's going to be that leap. So we may not be ready for that right now. Some of us are already there. But this is what we bring into focus. As long as we know where we're going. Where we're going is, I will be liberated and healed. When I accept that the person who hurt me is in need of healing as well. Because if I can allow them to be healed, even just saying I intend for them to be healed, just to say that once. That means we are now trying to resolve in someone else, what will prevent more people from being hurt. And when we are working as a healer, to heal the wounds of predatorial behavior, we all stop being victims. And that's the high level that compassion is preparing for us to meet and enter.
Alex Ferrari 44:20
Do you think that a lot of the shift that's happening in the world today with all this insanity that is going on? Do you feel that the old systems the old hierarchies, the old things that we've been holding on to for centuries sometimes have to be kind of tore down or changed in order to make room for the new ways of looking like you just said just to your explanation of how to approach things, and that the old systems and people's beliefs in those systems are they're just holding on tighter because they're like I'm afraid of making that leap. I'm afraid of moving forward. I'm gonna fight tooth and nail to the death to hold on to not only what we currently have, but to try to bring us back to where we were 100 years ago in some cases? Because I mean, look what's going on in the Ukraine? Gee, I mean, like, what that? I mean, literally, if I would have told you, oh, yeah, we're gonna have a land war in Europe, you'd be like, you're out of your mind. Right? Where you have, we're literally being pulled back in, right by by the psychopath over in Russia, right, pulled back into a time of World War Two. Right? So what do you think of all that?
Matt Kahn 45:41
Here's the analogy I'll give you because I started as a division. So imagine a bunch of people are in line for a restaurant, and they're outside the door. And they're frustrated, they're upset, and they're all just talking and complain to each other, this restaurants line takes forever, I don't even know how good the food is. And no one has taken the time to peek in the window and see that the restaurant is out of business. So what I'm saying is, is that we who look at this crazy world, which is just a crazy phase of the world, and it's so easy to kind of, you know, look at the insanity and get into that. But it's not a system that's breaking. It's a system that's been broken for a long time. And very few people with a lot of resources, who know that the only way for them to stay in power or to start continuing to build their wealth is through wartime scenarios. And you know, when we look at the return of the divine feminine, what we're really looking at is an old, outdated system that divides people into two categories, whether you call it Democrat, Republican, moderate, conservative, conservative I've done into I'm a humanitarian. And And really, what happens is that people give all of their power in the system to these elected officials, to try to advance things and what is really a community issue. And so this is the time in history, where as we start to wake up out of this, you're on this side, I'm on this side, whatever the conversation is, this is where we start to come together and say, We may think differently, but our pain and our wounds are the same. Let us work together so that both of us can be free. And we can create a world that works for everyone. And so it's not going to be political theater, reaching across the aisle and all that kind of stuff. It's going to be communities coming together, and humanitarian efforts. And once we start to make the choice to come together on a community level, people in that position have to mimic and replicate that, to stay on course with the trajectory of the popular vote. So really, it comes down to us as human beings uniting is one and starting to find humanitarian issues that brings the basic needs to the world. So we can stop complaining about a TV show that we're acting out, we have to break script, unite. And it's the love we offer ourselves. And it's the compassion we offer ourselves. And it's the breadth that we connect to, that wakes us up to this reality and allows us to reach outside of ourselves and connect with others, no matter how differently we think or appear to be.
Alex Ferrari 48:31
Do you think that there's going to have to be an event, something that happens in the on the world stage that will finally bring us together all the aliens attacking Independence Day? You know, are we gonna get are we gonna get Jeff? Is it Jeff Denton? It's not Jeff Daniels. It's a Bill Pullman, Bill Pullman up there, doing that speech on July 4, but it's not just our day, it's the Independence Day of the world. And do we need something like that? And I'm using that as an fun analogy, but some event that galvanizes us to go, what are we doing? Right? We need to work together. It could be the environment, the environments, definitely hitting his back pretty damn hard right now. But you know, there's yellows don't have to explode. I mean, I mean, seriously, like this, something has to happen. You know, there's a new cough to go off like this. Something has to happen that everyone goes, we're out. We got to work together. We got to take that leap. What do you think?
Matt Kahn 49:34
What I truly feel is that. What is actually going to bring the world together as a couple of things. One is the growing frustration of agendas and things change being talked about the change not being implemented. I think that's actually a big part of it. But I think if And when there is ever a framework of, hey, we've decided to acknowledge other worldly technologies flying into our solar system. Here's the specific part. And I feel like I'm being very intuitive when I say this, when and if it starts to become framed of, we are sensing that that might be an enemy. As soon as that is framed, because the majority of souls on this planet, whether they know it or not, do not come from this planet, they come from other solar systems. The universe is a large, large place. Yes. And we are hardwired to know that otherworldly civilizations come from a higher consciousness, they already come from advanced technology, light years beyond anything we know. But why is the earth so valuable to civilizations like that, because we have two things that those beings are learning from through us, we have a physical body, we have a sense of individual self. And more importantly, we have an a human nervous system. One of the most advanced things that other civilizations look at in us is go, what's it like to feel? What's it like to be an individual. And so when we come together as one, we're going to create a portal on this earth where there can be an equal exchange of advanced technologies to create basic needs, and advancements on a societal level of giving other higher conscious civilizations, the chances to learn through us what it's like to feel, grow, and be an individual expression of the totality. And so it's when it when and if that is being made to be a target. If that starts to happen, I truly believe that is when human beings say that's it. That's it, I've had enough. There's no way that's even true, because I believe there has been such a relationship of unreliability between the people, and the people that the people rely on to leave this world that as soon as that starts to be created as kind of a focus, I for some reason to feel like that's when a bell goes off, and a lot of people now
Alex Ferrari 52:12
I think a lot of the problems that we have in society in general, is the issue of not letting go of things of holding on to things that cause us the anger causes us all the turmoil causes us to cancers causes us to illness, because we don't let go of it. And we carry it like a monkey on our back for most of our lives. What can we do to let go of these these traumas, these things, I mean, obviously, certain things you have to work through, you have to identify, you've got to do the work to kind of accept it and move on from it. But so many of us hold on to the angers, the, the the bitterness, the things that we hold on to like, oh, I can't believe you did that to me 15 years ago, really, really, because, because when you're, that's how I always tell people is like when you're dying. You know, when you're going to remember, it's not going to be that John, Joe Blow screwed you over for the money. When you were in your 30s you're going to remember the vacations with your family, you're going to remember the love that you gave, they're going to remember, that's what you're gonna hopefully be remembering at the end. Sure. Because, like, like, like when 911 planes were going down. I forgot somebody said that. It's like, there wasn't a messages left on the phones, of people calling in to their loved ones going. You know what, I'm really still pissed off about what you did to me back and they were all it was all messages of love. Oh, is it love? Love Actually that movie Love actually said that it was a great, great little voiceover. But it's true. Because at the end, that's what we hold on to. So how can we let go of this now?
Matt Kahn 53:52
Well, I think we have to identify two things. One is two things is what are the two reasons why people can't let things go. First reason on the surface is people can't let things go. Because their sense of self is defined by a certain standpoint or grudge. So it's to their ego if they were to let go that would be deaf, of the psychological self. So their life lives and dies by holding on to a certain perspective. The deeper answer from the heart though is that people can't let things go because when you let things go, you become more open to receiving receiving is an act of intimacy and that's what everyone in an inflated over exaggerated ego simultaneously desires and is petrified of like little children that run towards the ocean. And as soon as the wave starts coming towards them, they run away from it. We as a society, desire intimacy and are fucking petrified of intimacy. So secondary gain, the secondary gain the subconscious benefit, and people go I just want to let Cisco, subconsciously, we have things we think we can't let go. Because we're too afraid to admit how intimate is to receive, to be open to be vulnerable, and to allow goodness to come to us, when our minds echo the trauma of last time you were that open, you were hurt, overwhelmed, dominated and traumatized. So if we face our traumas, we find that it is and making peace with our feelings, loving ourselves relating to our breath, the letting go happens as an effect of facing the real fear, which is, why is there racism in the world? Why are people divided against each other, because that helps people hide from intimacy, equality, intimacy, inclusivity is not where the ego knows how to operate and maintain a sense of control. So with the evolution of consciousness that helps us to feel less afraid, and more solid in ourselves to be more intimate. And it's simply as the world becomes more aligned with the courage of intimacy, that all these things are let go of subconsciously, or indirectly. So we can't consciously let go of something, we have to actually look at what is holding on preventing me from facing. And for every human being, there is a different nuance to it. But it all comes down to, I want to receive more. And I don't know how to admit to myself that the thing I want the most is the thing I'm the most afraid of. And that's why we're stuck.
Alex Ferrari 56:45
And I love that analogy of the waves. That's so true. When you're a kid, you run towards them. And then when they come to you, you run away from them and that but you want both. It's, it's you're right, you want intimacy. But yet you're most people are terrified of it. They're terrified of open, we want
Matt Kahn 57:01
The instant gratification of an Oregon do, we also want to care for the person, whether it meets our needs or not. And so, because intimacy has been de compartmentalized, and we've separated the gratification of an orgasm, for example, with the journey of caring and growing with someone, because it's been de compartmentalized. We are trying to have what we desire without being safe enough to receive it. And so we're all living in this world. Not all of us, but on a general way, in different imbalances and in different ratios. We all want things. And we are all afraid to have those things. And what we as a world have not realized is that it's the intensity of pursuing the things that you want, that also builds up a fear of receiving it. And so as we actually stop the hunger, insatiable hunger, like we talked about the options earlier, of looking outside of myself for validation, and looking for I am the one I need to explore, and just spending more time with the One not many options, just one option. That's where we stop moving towards things. That's where we start to heal the fear of receiving. And that's when we start to open up to intimacy. And it's only an intimacy, where we meet each other as equals, we treat others with respect, and we manifest others who can respect us the same.
Alex Ferrari 58:29
Now, why, why is it that we have such difficulty dealing with the reality that's sitting right in front of us? We literally will literally, it'll just, it'll be right here. And we'll just be going nope. Nope, nope, not doing it. Why is that?
Matt Kahn 58:48
Because it's too because it takes time. And we are living in a world. Again, I don't mind the advancements of technology, but that advancements of technology need to be equal to the emotional and conscious advancements of the society as well. I mean, what we've learned from things like Atlantis and other paradigms, and Rome and all different kinds of stories, Easter Island, Easter Island, exactly. So I think that what happens is, is if we look at a problem, and we can't solve it, in less than three seconds, we're instantly overwhelmed. And so what happens is, is we're leaning on technology or addictive patterning or whatever it is pornography, social media, whatever. It's not the thing. It's how it's being used, but we're leaving drug addiction. We're leading on emotional eating, you know, whatever it is even over usage of plant medicine, too often. We're trying to soothe ourselves from the overwhelm we feel when we can't solve a problem and less than three seconds and so that has helps us understand as a species, that we're too attached to a destination with not as much respect for the journey. And the journey is making peace with time, this is going to take time, it's going to take effort, it's going to be a struggle. But if we can do it together, no one has to carry all the struggle on their shoulders, we can all resolve it as one.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:24
I think that if everybody in the world and I think everybody is going to do this starts a podcast. And and, and you start to look at the time it takes to build a real show, with real guests and tight and real listeners and to build it takes a long time. So when I got into this seven years ago, right, I wanted instant gratification. But this, this, this, this does not happen, generally speaking, and I move pretty quickly. But still, it did not move as quickly as I wanted to, to. It's just not now when I think about things. When I think about starting a new company, a new show, I think four or five years out, of course, I don't even think about six months out. Are you kidding? You know, from the last time that we spoke to where we are right now, the show has grown. But I'm still thinking about it like, oh, yeah, this is it's nice, it's going well, but about three, four years down the line, that's when it's really going to kick it's it's going to kick in, it's going to kick in its stride at that point, because I'll have so it's a bit that takes time to think about writing a book. You know, most people can't write it in a month, you know, when I was writing my books, I was like 1000 words a day, 500 words a day, just only chip it. And it takes time, as opposed to like, I need to channel it and be done in a week, which I've spoken to authors like,
Matt Kahn 1:01:52
Well, and you know, and when I wrote out for love the transformative power of holding space, I wrote the first draft in a month and a half. It really just came through me so quickly. But I think the reason why we have an aversion to time is because we rely too much on our human egos, and not too much on our souls essence or our consciousness. And so time is the one thing that chips away at the inflammation of ego. So it's kind of like the one thing everything takes is the one thing your ego is the most allergic to and so we all want change we all want it now. But we there's an aversion to putting in the time to create it. For example, we look at celebrities right we'll see a celebrity on the show. Hey, this person is starting this many movies this money grossed this many millions. This person has these many Oscars. You don't see on the Chiron of their name
Alex Ferrari 1:02:46
Chiron while you just did it yourself, sir.
Matt Kahn 1:02:49
What's it called? Isn't that called the Chiron
Alex Ferrari 1:02:51
Lower Third, sir. low, lower third now, but it was Chiron because that was the name of the machine that actually created the back in the day. Yeah, I used to work on one of those machines. When I started out in college. I know exactly what you're talking about.
Matt Kahn 1:03:05
Well, I'm gonna update my beeper. And I'm gonna update my Blackberry. And I'm gonna go on America Online afterwards and tell my friends about this. And then I'm gonna go watch a movie and laserdisc. Oh, because my Betamax is all broken anyway, obviously, obviously. But the funny thing about what you don't like when I get interviewed, everyone's like mad 20 million views on YouTube, right? But you don't understand the journey of time it took to create that like you don't see like, Charlize Theron or any actress Right? Any incredible actress under their name, how many auditions to get rejected by before they got a yes. And so I think what's interesting is that we have an ability in this world to embrace accomplishment. That doesn't necessarily always involves the journey getting there. Unless we're watching the Olympics, which is why I think the Olympics is so transformative because we often get the story of each athlete and we see the journey training and the pain that goes into it. And really all of us are that athlete. We're all that artists. We're all that actor, we're all that writer. We are all in this artists community called Earth. But I think we just historically have too much of an value for achievement, without the achievement being a celebration for the sacrifice and time put into some degree of passion.
Alex Ferrari 1:04:39
Very good sir. Now I'm gonna ask you two questions. I asked my guess. What is your mission in this life?
Matt Kahn 1:04:46
My mission in this life is to leave this planet more conscious, more loving and more respectful than when I entered it
Alex Ferrari 1:04:54
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Matt Kahn 1:04:56
The ultimate purpose of life is to realize it Your life purpose is not what you do. But who you become while doing it.
Alex Ferrari 1:05:06
Fantastic answers. And where can people find your new book, and more and more about your other words as well.
Matt Kahn 1:05:15
My new book offer love the transformative power of wholeness space available at all major book retailers, Amazon, wherever if you go to my website, mattkahn.org, Mattkahn.org\love. You'll go to the All for Love book page. And you'll see that when you preorder my book right now, as a bonus, you not only get to attend one of my group healing events for free, but you get instant access to a documentary we recently filmed where for the first time it shows me working with people in a healing capacity and following their transformation. And and it's a film that people are flipping out about that you get to watch for free by prayer and pre ordering my book called for love.
Alex Ferrari 1:05:54
Man, I am so happy you came back on the show, sir. I'm thankful for what you do in the world. And thank you for coming on the show and just doing what everything that you do my friend, so I appreciate you and I appreciate what you're doing my friend. So you're welcome back anytime, as you know, sir.
Matt Kahn 1:06:10
Thank you. And I just want to say thank you as always to connect with you and to laugh with you and for everyone that's watching this interview. Thank you for being a part of the ascension of this planet. And no matter how crazy life gets, love is always here to make things right.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:25
Thank you my friend.
Matt Kahn 1:06:26
Links and Resources
- Matt Kahn – Official Site
- All for Love: The Transformative Power of Holding Space
- Whatever Arises Love That
- Everything Is Here To Help You
- The Universe Always Has a Plan
- FREE Gaia Trial: Discover Gaia’s Thought-Provoking Movies and Inspirational Documentaries
- FREE Mindvalley Spiritual Masterclasses
If you enjoyed today’s episode, check us out on Apple Podcasts at NevelLevelSoul.com/apple and leave us a (hopefully) 5-star rating and a creative review.
Want to take your SOUL to the next level? Check out our curated Courses and Books that can help you along your path.