Next Level Soul Podcast Episode 003
How much is enough? Matt D’Avella joins Alex Ferrari to talk about minimalism, decluttering and focusing on what is really important.
Key Takeaways
- Matt D’Avella describes minimalism as a lifestyle that helps us figure out what is most important in life.
- He says it often starts with the stuff: clearing out what you do not value and keeping a smaller set of things you love.
- Minimalism helped him redefine success. He says he realized he already had enough to be content, while staying ambitious.
- He talks about learning to say no, especially once success brings a flood of new opportunities.
- Matt describes the “flinch” as backing away from what scares us, and a cold shower as one small way to practice not flinching.
- He says self-doubt never fully goes away, and that you work with it every day.
What Minimalism Is
Alex opens by asking Matt for a definition, and Matt keeps it simple. Minimalism, he says, is a lifestyle that helps us figure out what is most important in life. For Matt, it is a way of asking better questions about your time, your attention and the people you spend your life with.
He says he found the idea soon after graduating college. He is quick to point out that it is not a new idea, though he notes that many more people are talking about it now.
It Starts With the Stuff
Matt says minimalism usually begins with things. Most American homes, he says, have attics, basements and sheds full of belongings, and he calls storage a multi-billion dollar industry. He says houses are far bigger than they were in the 1940s, and we have still run out of room for what we own. Alex jokes that the storage companies like that.
The first step, as Matt describes it, is to clear out what you do not value, care about or even notice anymore. Then you curate a smaller set of things you really love and want to take care of. The payoff he describes is time. With less to manage, there is more room to ask where you want your life to go, what you want to do and who you want beside you.
Redefining Success
This is where Matt gets personal. He says that as a young filmmaker he believed he had to reach a certain place before he could be happy. He needed a nice car, a really nice house and the latest tech gadgets to feel successful. Success, in his mind, came with a shopping list.
Minimalism changed that. Matt says he realized he already had enough to be content. He was still ambitious. He still wanted to make films and to be driven creatively. The difference, he says, is that he stopped letting those goals get in the way of his happiness, and he could step back and enjoy the journey and the process.
He is honest that it was not a lightbulb moment. Life still gets in the way, and everyone has struggles. What he describes instead is greater awareness and acceptance, and more appreciation for what he has and what he had.
Learning to Say No
Matt brings up a book called Essentialism and its idea of the myth of success. You work for years to get there, he says, and then success hands you a flood of new opportunities to say yes to. He says startups and tech companies fall into this trap. They have the resources and the team, so they try to do everything, and they lose sight of what brought the success in the first place.
His answer is to develop the muscle of saying no. If you are looking for happiness and contentment, he says, you have to be selective. If all you are chasing is financial reward, you will say yes to a bunch of other things, and he warns it may not work out well if you say yes to too much.
Cold Showers and the Flinch
Alex shares what he learned from taking cold showers. Every excuse his mind produced for staying out of the cold water, he says, was the same excuse it gave him about making a feature film: it was too big, too far outside the box. In Alex’s view, the brain cares about survival, not about getting you to your dream, so you have to break through that mental block. He says he started warm and cooled the water slowly.
Matt adds that we adapt to this kind of thing, both physically and mentally. He points to a book called The Flinch and a picture from boxing. If you flinch when a jab comes at you, you are not going to win the fight, so boxers train a no-flinch mentality. Matt says we flinch in life all the time. We flinch at the big opportunity, the date that scares us, the film we are afraid to make and the cold shower.
He describes a cold shower as a low-stakes place to practice. It is a little uncomfortable and entirely personal, and the more we embrace uncomfortable situations, he says, the better we get at it in the rest of life.
Matt mentions in passing that he sees no harm in a cold shower unless you have problems with your heart. That is a casual remark, not medical advice. Check with your doctor if you have a health concern.
Self-Doubt and Imposter Syndrome
Alex asks what Matt had to overcome to get where he is. His answer is self-doubt. Am I worthy? Am I the one who should be telling this story? Am I smart, talented or clever enough to have something to offer? Alex calls it imposter syndrome, and Matt agrees completely.
Matt says it never really goes away. He is confident in his filmmaking skills, but whether he can deliver a compelling story, or whether a film will become what he set out to make, is a whole other story. Overcoming self-doubt was one of the first questions he asked guests on his own podcast, because he was dealing with it firsthand.
The more you do the work, he says, the more you settle into it, the more comfortable you get and the more you embrace uncertainty. Self-doubt can stop you from doing anything, so he treats overcoming it as a daily job if you want to make great work.
A Fresh Start in Los Angeles
The conversation opens as a reunion. Alex recalls going to Matt’s house to record an interview for Matt’s podcast around 2016 or 2017, soon after Matt had arrived from New York, and calls it one of the best interviews he has done.
Matt explains that the move was mostly personal. He already had an established freelance career and was shifting toward original content. His wife is from Sydney, and a direct flight from Los Angeles makes family visits far easier than a 23-hour trip from New York. About three months before this recording, he says, they moved closer to the beach, where life is quieter and they are finding some stillness.
Spiritual Takeaways
- Ask what is most important to you, and let that answer decide what stays.
- You may already have enough.
- Practice saying no to good opportunities that pull you away from your center.
- Embrace a little discomfort, and notice where you flinch.
- Keep going while the doubt is still there.
A small practice for this week: pick one drawer, shelf or corner you have stopped noticing and clear it out. Then ask the question Matt keeps returning to. What do I actually want more room for?
Please enjoy my conversation with Matt D’Avella.
Guest Links: Connect With Matt D’Avella
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Frequently Asked Questions
What does Matt D’Avella say minimalism is?
He says minimalism is a lifestyle that helps us figure out what is most important in life. In his telling it often starts with the stuff, by clearing out what you do not value and keeping a smaller set of things you love. The point, he says, is the time and attention that frees up for deeper questions about your life and the people in it. He found the idea soon after college and says many more people are talking about it now.
Where does Matt say minimalism starts?
He says it starts with decluttering. He points to attics, basements, sheds and storage lockers full of things we no longer look at, and calls storage a multi-billion dollar industry. He suggests curating the things you really love and want to take care of. From there, he says, you have more room to ask who you want to spend time with and where you want your life to go.
How did minimalism change Matt’s view of success?
He says he once believed he needed a nice car, a really nice house and the latest gadgets to feel successful. After discovering minimalism, he realized he had enough to be content. He stayed ambitious and still wanted to make films, but he stopped letting those goals get in the way of his happiness. He adds that it was not a single lightbulb moment, and that it gave him more awareness, acceptance and appreciation.
Why does Matt talk about learning to say no?
He cites a book called Essentialism and its idea of the myth of success. Once you succeed, he says, many new opportunities arrive and you feel pulled to say yes to all of them. He says startups and tech companies fall into this trap and lose sight of what created their success. His answer is to build the muscle of saying no, especially if you want happiness and contentment and not only financial reward.
What is the flinch, and what does it have to do with cold showers?
Matt describes a book called The Flinch, which uses boxing as a picture. A fighter who flinches at a jab will lose, so boxers train a no-flinch mindset. Matt says we flinch at big opportunities and frightening choices all the time. He sees a cold shower as a low-stakes way to practice, and says embracing uncomfortable situations makes us better at it throughout life. His remark about heart problems is casual, not medical advice.
What does Matt say about self-doubt and imposter syndrome?
He says he asked himself whether he was worthy, smart or talented enough to tell a story, and that the doubt really does not go away. He is confident in his filmmaking skills, but never certain a film will turn out as he hoped. His answer is to keep doing the work: the more you do it, the more comfortable you get and the more you can embrace uncertainty. He treats it as something to work on every day.
Where can I find Matt D’Avella’s work?
Matt points people to MattDAvella.com, where his social links and his YouTube channel are all collected. The Guest Links section on this page also links to his website and his YouTube channel directly. In this conversation he talks about his work as a filmmaker and about his own podcast.
Where can I find more episodes like this one?
Browse more free masterclasses and the Next Level Soul Podcast. If this conversation raised questions about meaning, you may also like our pieces on living with purpose and finding your soul purpose. New conversations arrive every week.
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Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:10
I'd like to welcome to the show, Matt D'Avella. Thank you so much for being on the show, brother.
Matt D'Avella 0:16
Alex. Thanks for having me. Dude excited to connect with you again, man. It's been a little while.
Alex Ferrari 0:20
Yeah, man, it has been. It's been a minute. I mean, when you when I first when you had me on your podcast in 2016 17 16?
Matt D'Avella 0:31
Probably. Ohhh probably 2017 very early on a year.
Alex Ferrari 0:34
Right! Exactly. I came to your, to your to your house. And we, we recorded, by the way, still one of the best interviews I've had, and I've abused that video everywhere. As you've noticed. I love that. It was it was great. It was a great interview. And, and you had just literally gotten off the boat from New York like you'd like fresh off the boat.
Matt D'Avella 0:56
Yeah, that was a fresh start for my now wife and I we, you know, it was mostly a personal decision. It wasn't let's move out to LA to be closer to the film industry. I had an established freelance career at that time, and I was moving into doing more original content. For us, it was more so my wife's from Sydney, Australia. So to be able to visit family you know, a 23 hour flight from New York is kind of rough. So we got to direct flight from LA and it's a lot easier now to see family but that said it's certainly been great just to be in LA there's so many creative people that I've gotten the chance to connect with. So definitely rivals New York in terms of the creative energy for sure.
Alex Ferrari 1:40
Yeah, with up I just literally got back from New York. I was visiting there on vacation and it is such a different energy man. Oh my Yeah, it is. So I was right in the middle of midtown. Oh, guys staying in town for like for like four or five days. I was just like,
Matt D'Avella 1:54
It would get to you after a little while for sure.
Alex Ferrari 1:56
It just like like you you walk out at like 7am to go to Gregory's to pick up some coffee. And all of a sudden you just like boom, like is it noon is like what is going on? There's so much action going on. Like yeah, the city does not sleep well. LA is just chilled much.
Matt D'Avella 2:13
Right! Well, we lived in West Hollywood. So it's a little bit busier, but definitely not close to New York. And then recently, three months ago, we moved to closer to the beach. So now we're really LA Live. And it's very chill. I mean, it's it there's not as much chaos. So for us, we're finding some some stillness and quiet here, which has been great.
Alex Ferrari 2:33
And I'm in the valley. So you know, we're nice and quiet over here as well.
Matt D'Avella 2:36
For sure. I love it. Yeah.
Alex Ferrari 2:40
Tell me about minimalism. How did it come about? And and first of all, what is the definition of minimalism by itself, and then we'll get into the movie.
Matt D'Avella 2:48
So minimalism is a lifestyle that helps us figure out what's most important in life, it often starts with the things the stuff that you know, of course, most American homes have a lot of clutter. We've got attics, and basements and sheds filled with stuff, I certainly know
Alex Ferrari 3:05
Storage companies like that.
Matt D'Avella 3:08
It's a multi billion dollar industry, right? Our houses are what, like 30 50 times bigger than they were in the 40s. And now we have stored so much stuff that we need to throw them in storage lockers. So I think minimalism, addressed that problem in a big way for a lot of people. And it started with decluttering. And like, let's just clear out the stuff that we don't value don't care about don't look at don't notice anymore. And just curate a set of things that we really love. And we really value and we want to take care of and focus on. But then of course, by getting rid of this stuff, it also allows us much more time to focus on the important things, what we want to get out of life, asking some deeper questions about where we want to take our lives, what do we want to do? Who are the people that we want to spend our time with? So I think that was probably the biggest thing for me when it came to minimalism. And I probably it was just after I graduated college that I found out about it for myself. Of course, it's not a new idea. But there's this resurgence of the idea, many more people talking about it now. And minimalism helped me to redefine what my idea of success was about as a filmmaker, as a creative. You know, monetarily, I just thought I had to get to a certain place in order to be happy, I needed to have all the stuff to have a nice car, I need to have a really nice house. And all these things that tech gadgets that God I needed to be successful and to feel successful. And then I just realized that after discovering that I had enough to be content. I had enough to be happy with where my life was at. Sure. I was still ambitious and I still wanted to make films and I wanted to be driven creatively. And I you know, I still had these things that I wanted to accomplish in my life, but I wasn't letting that get in the way of my happiness. I was able to take a step back and actually enjoy the journey in the process. And not to say that it was a lightbulb flash incident, everything was perfect. And I was content from that moment on because life gets in the way, we certainly have our struggles, and that's part of life. But it's given me greater awareness and acceptance. For the life I'm living and a much more appreciation for what I have in what I had. Greg McEwen who wrote the book essentialism, talks about the myth of success, how you get to the point where you work your whole life to be successful, you finally get it. And then also, you get all these amazing opportunities, all these other opportunities to say yes to things. So people start taking it. And like startups and tech companies fall into this trap, they start trying to do everything they possibly can, because now they have the resources and the team to try to go after it. But then they lose sight of what got them success in the first place. So you have to develop that muscle the ability to say no, especially if you're looking for happiness and contentment, if all you're looking for is financial reward and game, you'll say yes to a bunch of other things. And then you know, it could all in your face, and it could end up not working out well for you if you say yes to too much.
Alex Ferrari 6:11
When I started taking that cold. So technical showers, I realized that one every single thing that my mind was telling me to why should not get into the cold shower, is the same excuses. It told me about not making a feature film, or not doing this because it was such a huge, it was such an outside the box thing, your brains there. And I've said this a bunch of times on my podcast, your brain is there, it doesn't care about your happiness, it doesn't give a crap about view getting to your dream or not, it only cares about survival. It only cares about itself, and a cold showers that in that equation at first, where you have to kind of break through that, that mental block. And trust me do that first month. And you know, it was I started the same way I start off warm and then slowly cool it off. And now like I literally this morning, I went to the shower. And I put on like a little like it's just a drop of hot water, just a drop, just a snack, absolute freezing. But then as I'm watching like, it's too hot, and I took it off, I'll go all the way
Matt D'Avella 7:20
You adapt to it to anything like you adapt both physically and mentally in terms of how you are prepared to take it. And there's a great book that does talk about this. The The Flinch by Julian Smith. And it's about basically, you know, when if you're boxing and you're in a fight, and somebody snaps their their hand at you and snaps a jab at you, if you flinch, you're not going to win that fight. So boxers over time develop this no flinch mentality. So if somebody can't take a swing at them, they have to always be there locked in, if they close their eyes, then they're going to get clobbered. And that's what we do in life all the time. We're flinching at these big opportunities, these things that scare us. And instead we're deciding not to go on that date not to make that film not to take that cold shower. And a cold shower is one of those things that it there's no harm in it. Unless you have like problems with your heart, you're not going to have any the negative repercussions because of it. It's strictly a personal thing your you feel a little bit uncomfortable. And the more we can embrace those uncomfortable situations, the better we're going to be able to do that throughout the rest of our life.
Alex Ferrari 8:30
What's that thing that you had to overcome to get where you are?
Matt D'Avella 8:35
Am I like worthy? Like, am I the one that should be telling this story? Am I smart enough? Am I talented enough, clever enough and we have something to offer a lot of self doubt.
Alex Ferrari 8:48
Because imposter, imposter syndrome
Matt D'Avella 8:51
Completely. And it really doesn't go away. Like I'm confident in my filmmaking skills. But in terms of like whether am I going to be able to deliver a really compelling story or whether this film is going to be what I set out to make is a whole nother story. And no matter what, like I talked about that, from the very beginning is overcoming self doubt. It's one of the number one questions I asked my guests on my podcast, especially early on because it was something that I dealt with firsthand. And the more you do it, the more you settle into it, the more you get comfortable and in just the more you embrace uncertainty, because you can let self doubt kill you and prevent you from doing anything where you can overcome it. And it's something that you need to do every day if you want to make great work.
Alex Ferrari 9:38
Now where can people find you your work and your personal home address? No, I'm joking.
Matt D'Avella 9:44
You can go to MattDAvella.com, MattDAvella.com. And like if you social, it's all on there. You'll be able to find my YouTube channel and everything else from that website.
Alex Ferrari 9:57
Dude, man, thank you again so much for taking the time. Jim, I know you're a very busy man these days so I thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experience with the tribe brother. So thanks again man.
Matt D'Avella 10:07
Thanks for having me. Dude. This is a whole lot of fun
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