Divine Encounters Episode 087 | Near-Death Experience Story
Susan Grau was four and a half, almost five, when she says she climbed into an unplugged freezer in a garage to keep playing with older boys, and the door closed behind her. In this Divine Encounters episode she tells Alex Ferrari what she says happened in the dark: three lights, a well that held every prayer, a golden path, and a room of knowledge. The conversation explores what a child’s near-death experience can teach about trust, love and walking your own path.
Key Takeaways
- Susan says she was four and a half when she was trapped in a freezer, and that she knew without being told that she was going to die.
- She describes three beautiful lights, which she understood as angels, telling her to stop screaming because they would get her mommy.
- She says she was pulled, without any tunnel, to a Greco Roman room where a well held a swirling, living flow of prayers.
- She describes a golden path whose builders were angelic beings, who told her people are not the pavers; their part is only to walk the path.
- Susan says she was shown a room of knowledge where souls prepared for their next incarnation, and a field of animals she calls the room of companions.
- She says she felt unconditional love that she has been looking for ever since, and that she was told it was time to go back.
- In her telling, the lesson underneath it all is that self love is the most powerful thing we learn here.
| Guest | Susan Grau |
| Episode | Divine Encounters 087 |
| Age at the time | Four and a half, almost five |
| What Susan says happened | She was trapped in an unplugged freezer in a garage and, she says, died |
| Where she says she went | A Greco Roman room with a well, a golden path, a room of knowledge, a field of companions |
| Who she met | Three lights she understood as angels, and an angelic being who told her it was time to go |
| The message | Self love is the most powerful lesson; people walk the path, the angels pave it |
| Time away | About 18 hours before she was herself again, by her account |
A Game With Older Boys
Alex asks Susan what her life was like before she died, and she answers with one afternoon. She was playing with boys who were older than she was. They opened the garage, a place the children were not allowed to go. Inside stood a freezer, and Susan says it was not plugged in, though at four and a half she did not recognize that.
The boys told her that if she wanted to keep playing, she had to get them popsicles. So up she went, into the freezer, facing inward. They closed the door. At first she thought it was part of the game. The garage was separated from the house by a distance that felt enormous to a little child, with a fence and a tool room between. She remembers thinking she was in on it. We are playing a game.
When the Game Stopped Being a Game
Then she heard the garage door thud, and she says she realized she was in trouble. Susan says you innately know you are going to die, even when you do not know what death means. She knew animals on the land went away. That was all she understood.
She started screaming at the top of her lungs, like a trapped animal. She remembers the high-pitched sound of terror, and says her mother later compared it to the cry of cats in heat and told her that was the sound of terror. Even retelling it now, Susan says, she can feel it. The shelves had locked her in place, and though she was a skinny little thing, she could not turn around. It was pitch black. She says it felt like a coffin, though she had only seen one and did not know exactly what it meant.
Three Lights and a Gentle Voice
In the screaming, Susan says, three amazingly beautiful lights came in front of her. They told her to stop screaming. She kept screaming; she did not know who they were. Then she felt a powerful angelic source stop in its movement, almost look at her, though it was a light, and say, “Stop screaming, Susie, we’re going to get your mommy.”
She says they did not exactly speak the words aloud; that is simply what it felt like. And she felt herself pulled by forces. She did not look back and see her body. She did not go through a tunnel. She just felt the pull.
The Greco Roman Room and the Well
Susan says she ended up at the bottom of a set of stairs, looking at a Greco Roman room that was open to the sky, with pillars that were cracked and old. She knew she needed to climb to the top, because in the center of the room would be what she calls a well. The moment she thought it, she was standing at its edge. She still does not know why she felt compelled to be there.
She tells a lovely aside. She studied for her doctorate under Dr. Raymond Moody, and he once asked whether the well might have been her tunnel. Susan says she had always told him she never saw a tunnel, and that his question was an aha moment, only eight or ten years ago. If you would like to hear Moody himself, he is a guest in Divine Encounters episode 100.
A Well Made of Prayers
Looking down, she says, she saw movement, and now it looks to her like one consciousness shaped like DNA, made of words and twirling. She could hear prayers. One person pleaded for a mother with cancer. A teenager wanted a car. All of it flowed into one well.
Susan asked the lights where she was, and they said, “you’re in the room of knowledge.” She knew what a prayer was, since she had spent her first five years Catholic. She asked whether they answered all of those prayers. They told her that sometimes what people desire the most is not good for them. She did not like hearing that; it sounded like her mother saying that wanting something does not mean it is good for you. Yet she says she felt so alive. Everything in the room pulsed, like breathing.
The Golden Path and the Pyramids
The lights glanced toward another place, and Susan saw a path like the yellow brick road in the Wizard of Oz. She says she remembers it as clearly as the lollipop kids and the ruby slippers, and she thinks children make such things even brighter. At the front of the path stood pyramids, and the pavers looked like golden building blocks.
People were pulling blocks from the bottom of their pyramids to pave their own paths, and the paths came out crooked, out of shape, all over the place. They dropped to their knees and begged for help. Susan says she knew the pyramids were their life journeys, and that pulling from the bottom is like Jenga: it unbalances everything. Beautiful angelic beings then came and pulled the pavers out, rebuilt each pyramid from the bottom, and watched it go still. Then they took blocks from the top and began paving the path themselves.
Susan asked what they were doing. “We are the pavers. You are not. All you have to do is walk it.” She says she knows this is metaphor, and that she works with children who have near-death experiences and understands how they translate what they see. She asked how a person knows they are walking it right. The answer, as she remembers it, was that they bless and block everything. A person can get through a wall battered and bruised, or can shift, and shift again, until they see the path being paved.
Words She Has Never Forgotten
She says she remembers the next words verbatim and has repeated them for decades. Humans know what feels best, and the angels know what is best, but humans do not listen. “What you try to control controls you, and what you run from will chase you on your journey.” And then the invitation: “Walk into your power.” They would be there.
Susan admits she did not understand any of it at the time. She just remembers it. Other things happened in that room that she does not detail. Then she flashed into another place.
The Room of Knowledge and Coming Incarnations
Many people call it the Akashic records, she says. She calls it the room of knowledge, because that is what she was told. It was not really a room; it was a place, all interconnected, like a mall with different stores except they were not stores, where souls learn and grow. Susan says she was 65 when she described it for this episode and that nothing virtual existed in her life at that age, yet looking back it felt virtual, with books or tablets appearing in front of families. For a short explanation, see our glossary entry on the Akashic records.
She watched people say what they planned to do, and she heard others answer that it was far too much to handle. They said they could do it. She asked what they were doing and was told they were getting ready for their next incarnation. She says she did not understand the word until someone later asked whether she believed in reincarnation, and she knew exactly what it meant.
The Room of Companions
Next she says she was taken, or popped, to a place she was told was the room of companions. She was really happy and knew she was safe. Animals were everywhere, beautiful ones, not only squirrels but everything you can think of. She was in an open field of daisies and dandelions in colors unlike anything she had ever seen.
She tells us that when angels speak, the words and the music come out together, like whale song, like speaking to their young. That, she says, is why music is so powerful. It touches every part of the soul and can take us to any memory we choose. She calls it a power source that comes from the afterlife.
Unconditional Love and a Wall of Faces
Susan describes a mountain to her left with a being on it, and she badly wanted to climb it. She says a beam of radiance came toward her, pure and beyond anything she could name. “I was everything and I was nothing.” She felt perfect in every way, not practically perfect as Mary Poppins says, and filled with what unconditional love feels like. She says she has never felt it since and is always looking for it.
To her right, an angelic being floated out of what she calls a cobblestone cottage, and Susan could think only that she wished she could float. In front of her stood a giant crystalline pyramid of energy, bigger than anything she had ever seen, with faces and bodies inside it. She wanted to put her hands in but could not get through. She says now that had she passed through, she would not have come back. She saw the spirits on the other side, and the love, pulsing like every blade of grass and every flower.
Time to Go, and What Her Mother Heard
Then, she says, the angelic being told her, “It’s time to go.” Susan was next to water, and the being explained that water is for cleansing. Susan assumed she meant she would be washed before returning to her mommy. She now thinks of the clairs in intuition, clairvoyance and its cousins, which she says relate to clear water. The being told her she would go through many experiences on her journey, and that she would help people.
During all this, Susan says, she saw her mother and spoke to her. Her mother moved as if she heard, though she later said she only felt her baby, three times, saying the baby was in the freezer. Susan says her mother had been medicated at the time and did not trust her intuition at first. When she finally flung open the garage door and the freezer, she spun Susan around. Susan was ashen, with blue fingertips and toes, and not breathing, her mother said. In a panic she ran for a phone, screaming for help, and dropped her. Susan cracked open her jaw and still carries the little scar.
After: Seeing People and Learning to Trust
Susan says she was herself again about eighteen hours later. After that, she told her mother she saw people under her bed, in the corners of her room, in the windows and the hallway. She was terrified. She thought they were the boogeyman, would not walk down the hall alone, and covered her head. They never hurt her. Eventually life went on, and at five, she says, you forget quickly.
She now holds a doctorate and works with children who have near-death experiences. Her closing thought is the one she says sits under everything. “Self love is the most powerful lesson we have to learn here.” If we can touch it even for a moment, we want more, and through it we learn acceptance and love of others, growth, and trust in the journey. To place her story beside others, read our complete guide to near-death experiences.
Questions to Sit With
- Susan says the angels told her people are not the pavers, only the walkers. Where are you trying to pave a path that is not yours to pave?
- She heard that what you try to control controls you. What are you gripping tightly right now?
- Susan says she has looked for unconditional love ever since. Where could you offer a small piece of it to yourself today?
This week, notice one moment when you are forcing an outcome. Pause, breathe out, and say quietly, “I only have to walk it.”
Spiritual Takeaways
- Susan says she was told that people walk their path and that angelic helpers pave it.
- She says what we try to control controls us, and what we run from will chase us.
- She describes prayers as one living flow, and says sometimes what we want most is not what is best for us.
- She says music is a power source that comes from the afterlife and touches every part of the soul.
- In her words, self love is the most powerful lesson we learn here, and it grows acceptance of others.
Please enjoy my conversation with Susan Grau.
Guest Links: Connect With Susan Grau
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Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Susan Grau?
Susan Grau is a near-death experiencer who says she died at four and a half after being trapped in a freezer. She later earned a doctorate, studied under Dr. Raymond Moody, and works with children who have near-death experiences.
What happened to Susan Grau as a child?
She says older boys told her to get popsicles from an unplugged freezer in the garage, and the door closed behind her. She says she could not turn around, screamed, and then three lights came and told her they would get her mommy.
Did Susan go through a tunnel?
No. She says she did not see a tunnel or look back at her body. She felt pulled to the bottom of a set of stairs and a Greco Roman room, where she saw a well. Dr. Raymond Moody later asked whether the well might have been her tunnel.
What was the well Susan describes?
Susan says it held a swirling, DNA-like flow of words, which she realized were prayers from many people. She says she was told it was the room of knowledge.
What did the pyramids and golden path mean?
Susan says she understood the pyramids as life journeys. People were trying to pave their own paths and unbalancing them. She says the angelic beings told her they are the pavers and humans only need to walk the path.
What was the room of knowledge?
She says it was an interconnected place of learning, which many people call the Akashic records. She watched souls plan their next incarnation, and some said the plan was too much but they believed they could do it.
What is the room of companions?
It is the name Susan says she was given for a field full of animals, with daisies, dandelions and colors she had never seen. She says she felt safe and very happy there.
What did Susan feel when she met the radiance?
She says it was pure unconditional love, and that she felt perfect in every way. She has never felt it again, she says, and is always looking for it.
Why did Susan come back?
An angelic being told her it was time to go. Susan says she believes that if she had passed through the crystalline pyramid she would not have returned.
Is Susan’s story proof of an afterlife?
Next Level Soul shares near-death experiences as personal accounts in the guest’s own words. Researchers continue to study and debate them, and nothing here is medical advice or a medical claim.
Keep Exploring
- The complete guide to near-death experiences
- A short explanation of the Akashic records
- Angels in plain language
- Dr. Raymond Moody on naming the near-death experience
- Ingrid Honkala on drowning at age two
- Devi Grace on crossing over at four years old
- Jacob Cooper on dying as a child and meeting his angels
- Steven Noack on dying at four and seeing a blueprint behind reality
- Browse more free masterclasses and the Divine Encounters podcast.
Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:00
Tell me what your life was like before you died.
Susan Grau 0:08
So I was playing for it with some boys that were older than me, and yeah, and they opened up the garage, and we weren't allowed in the garage, and there was a freezer in the garage. It wasn't plugged in. But I didn't know that I was four and a half. I was almost five, but I didn't even recognize, oh, it's not plugged in. And they said, if you want to keep playing, you got to get up and get us popsicles. So up I go into the freezer, facing inward, and they close the freezer door. And at first I thought, Oh, this is a game that the garage was separated from our house by a distance for a little child, and there was like a fence between us and a tool room. I mean, it was quite a distance. I remember just thinking, I'm in on the game. This is part of the game. We're playing a game. And then I heard the garage door thug, and I realized I'm in trouble. And it was really interesting, because you innately have this knowing that you're going to die. But I didn't know what death meant, really, except for, you know, animals on the land. But I didn't understand totally. I just knew you went away. That's what I knew. And I started screaming at the top of my lungs. I was like a trapped animal, and I can remember that high pitched sound of terror, and my mother likened to hearing the cats in heat have a very high pitched sound when they're mating. My mother likened it to that, and she said, That's the sound of terror. And just even saying it, I can feel it, you know, this experience, and it was terrifying. I was horrified. I didn't know what to do. I couldn't turn around, you know, because the shelves had kind of locked me, and I was a skinny little thing, but I couldn't turn around. And I remember screaming at the top of my lungs, I remember seeing three amazingly beautiful lights that just kind of came in front of me because it was pitch black and it was like, I felt like I was in a coffin, but I didn't know exactly what that meant. I just had seen one, but I didn't know what it meant. They said, Stop screaming. And I kept screaming. I thought, I'm not stop I didn't know who they were. But, you know, I know they come as we understand them. And so I all of a sudden, and I understood angels, and I felt this powerful angelic source stop in the movement, and almost felt like it looked at me, but it was a light, and it said, Stop screaming, Susie, we're going to get your mommy. And then it felt like it was, but first, you know, they didn't say it, but that's what it felt like and I felt myself being pulled. It felt like forces that were pulling me, but I wasn't I didn't look back and see my body. I didn't go through a tunnel. I just felt this force pulling me, and I ended up at the bottom of a set of stairs, and I was looking at a Greco Roman room, and it was open, and it had pillars that were cracked and old and it had an open ceiling, and then I knew innately that I needed to get up to the top of these stairs, because in the center of that room was going to be what I called a well. I don't know why I felt compelled, but I needed to be there. And the moment I thought it, I was there at the edge of this well. I always called it a well. And I studied for my doctorate under Dr Raymond Moody, and he said to me, Susan, did you ever think that the well might have been your tunnel? Because I said to him, Raymond, I never saw a tunnel, and I that was like the aha moment for me. And that wasn't that long ago. It was maybe 810, years ago. That was my first like, what, you know, I looked at him like, Are you kidding me right now? I never thought it, because it was just what I saw. And I looked down into this beautiful well, and I could see movement. Now, looking back, it looked like one consciousness of DNA, and it was words, and it was moving like twirling, like DNA, and I could hear prayers, and people were saying things like, my mom is going to die. Please, God help her. Don't let her die. She has cancer. Don't let her die. And I heard, I'm going to turn 16, and I want a car. God, please tell my dad to get me a car. I mean, I was hearing all of these amazing prayers, and they were all going into one well of consciousness. And I looked over at the lights, and I asked them, Where am I? And they said, you're in the room of knowledge. I don't think I understood it then, but now I have to say that even when I say it, it's overwhelming to me, and now I'm going to start sniffling. And I said, do you answer all those because I knew they were prayers. I knew what a prayer was. You know, I grew up in my first five years Catholic, and so I knew what a prayer was. And they said, No, Susie, sometimes what people desire the most isn't good for them. And I didn't like hearing it. I wanted my mom used to say, just because you want it doesn't mean it's good for you. Now go to your room, you know. And so I was waiting for the rest of that. I was waiting, you know. And I thought, I don't know if I like this, you know, feeling like what they just said to me, but I felt so alive. Everything in the room pulsed. And I'll explain that as I go, it was like breathing everything. And then I they kind of like glanced to another area, and I looked, and I saw this path, and it looked like the yellow brick road I'd seen the Wizard of Oz. So I remember this so clearly, like everyone can remember seeing the Wizard of Oz. You know, you remember the lollipop kids. You remember. All of it, right? You remember the ruby slippers and the witch, and that's how it was for me, because it was so alive. And I think for children, they make it very even brighter. So it's pulsating life. And I remember seeing this path, and on the front of the path were these pyramids, and I could see that it was pavers look like golden pavers. And I can only describe now as an adult, I think I thought then that it was just blocks. It was just like building blocks. And I saw people pulling from the bottom of these pyramids, people, and they were paving their path, and it was really crooked and out of shape, and it was all over the place, and they dropped to their knees. And I innately knew that those pyramids were their life journey. And when you pull from the bottom of pyramid, it's like Jenga, you unbalance it. And they were unbalancing their life journey because they were trying to pave their path. Looking back, I really understand that, and I have for a lot of years, quite honestly, and they were saying, for the love of God, help me. You know, nothing's working. It's not going my way. God do something, you know? And I watch these beautiful, angelic beings come in and start pulling the pavers out. Now, this is all metaphorical for me, and I know that children see it as metaphors because they can't understand and I work with children who have nde's, I have my doctorate, so I know how they see it. And so they took the pavers out, and they came back, and they started building back the pyramid, or putting it back to the bottom. And I watched it stop moving. It was just flat, still as still can be. And they went to the top of the pyramid, they pulled off the pavers, and they started paving these angelic beings. And I said, What are you doing? And they said, We are the pavers. You are not. All you have to do is walk it. Now, I know they put the questions in my head, because I asked them, How do you know if you're walking it right? And they said, We bless and block everything. Make no mistake, you can get through a block or a wall battered and bruised at best, Susie or you can shift on your journey. And if there's another wall, you can shift again until you see us paving your path, you think. And they pointed to what I thought was my head. You know what's best for you. We know what's best for you. Problem is, humans don't listen. What you try to control controls you, and what you run from will chase you on your journey. Walk into your power. We'll be there. And I'm like, the heck do they mean? Like, what does this all mean? I didn't understand it, but I remember it verbatim. I've always said those quotes, because I remember it from them, and other things happened in that room, and then I flashed into another room. Everyone calls it the Akashic records. I call it the room of knowledge, because that's what they told me it was. And I say a room, but it's really not a room. But I don't know how to describe it any other way. It was like a place. It was all interconnected, and it was running just like we would if we go to the mall, and there's all these different stores, you know, there's all these different places, except they're not stores. It's a place all interconnected, where you learn and you grow. And I was standing there, and I was watching families and they I saw these like, I want to say tablets, but they weren't. There was nothing virtual in my life. Then, you know, I'm 65 years old. There was nothing virtual in my life at the time, but looking back, it felt virtual. And I I watched these books or tablets, books maybe come in front of them, and they were going, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that, and I'm going to do this. And I heard them say, Oh no, no, no, that's way too much to handle personal and they go, I can do it. I know I can do it. And I said, Where am I? And they said, you're in the room of knowledge. And they and I said, Oh, what are they doing? And it was so interesting to me, like, so Wow, what is this? And they said they're getting ready for their next incarnation. I didn't know what they meant later on in life. Someone said to me, Do you believe in reincarnation Susan? I went, Oh, my God, there's that word. And I knew exactly what it meant. And then I flashed, you know, there were other things that happened in this space, and then they walked to me or popped me. I don't know how to explain it. There are no human words. So this sounds so benign when I talk about it, but it's a close eyes that I can get to it. I ended up in another space where there were animals, and they told me I was in the room of companions, and I was really happy, because I saw all these animals, and I knew I was safe. And you know, they were everywhere, these beautiful animals and everything, and you know, not just the squirrels and everything you can think of. And I was in this open field, and there were daisies and dandelions, and the colors were unbelievable. They were like nothing I'd ever seen in my life. Journey and the music. When the angels speak, I can only know them as angels for me, but when they speak, the words and the music come out at the same time, and I can only describe it as like the whale song, they're speaking to their young, but they are speaking in song. It's why music is so powerful to us. It touches every part of our soul, and it will take us to any memory we choose to be in. It is the power source, and it comes from that the afterlife. I just had this beautiful experience there, and I looked to my left, and there was this, what I would call a mountain, and there was this being, what I maybe source. Was on this beautiful mountain, and I wanted so bad to get up that mountain. And I was sitting in this field, you know, playing with animals or whatever I was doing, you know. And it just like taking it all in. And the whole time I wanted my mommy, but not then, not then I looked at when I looked to my left, and I felt that it was like, I need to get up that mountain. I need to get up that mountain. And I wanted to feel this energy and this beam of radiance. Nothing you've ever seen, nothing you've ever felt, came toward me and it was pure, nothing you can imagine. I was everything and I was nothing. I was perfection. There wasn't anything wrong with me. I was perfect in every way, not practically perfect as Mary Poppins says, perfect in every way, and I remember that coming at me, just filling me with this sense of this is what Unconditional Love feels like. I've never felt it since I'm always looking for it, but I've never felt it. I looked to my right, and that an angelic being came floating towards me out of this. I call it a cobblestone cottage. It came out, and all I could think of was, I want to float. I wish I could float. I was floating, I'm sure, but I wanted to float. And that's all I could think of. And I was little, I was me, and I think when you're going to go back, you are you. But there was this beautiful pyramid, again, crystalline energy in front of me. It was shaped like a giant pyramid, but it was an energy. I've never seen anything so big. And I could see faces and bodies inside of this and this thing, and I wanted to put my hands in it, but I couldn't get through it. And I know now, if I had gotten through it, if I had been able to do that, I wouldn't have come back. It was the other side, it was the final and I was seeing faces, spirits on the other side. I was witnessing them and the love. It was like pulsating, just like every blade of grass, every flower pulsating with life, everything, everything, even your breath, if there was breath, would pulsate. And she said, It's time to go. And I didn't know how I felt about that, but I just knew that I was next to water at that moment, and she explained to me what water was for cleansing, and I thought she meant she's gonna clean me up, because I was in this field to go back to my mommy. That's what I thought she meant, like I'm gonna get washed. But that's not what she meant. And she said, everything is burst of water. And you know, later on in my journey, I know about the Claires. And Claire means Claire in French, and Claire's are what we learn to connect with the spirit world and to know our intuition, like clairvoyance, is clear, seeing what Claire means, and it's clear water, but water is extremely significant to us and to the spirit world. And she said, you know you're going to go through a lot of experiences on your journey, and you know, we want you to know you're gonna help people. Now during this time, I did see my mom. I remember seeing her, and I was talking to her, and she'd move her body like she was hearing me, but she said she didn't really hear me, but she felt me, and she was hearing your baby's in the freezer, and she wasn't listening because she was medicated from being institutionalized. She was on Valium, that's what they gave him, and so she didn't listen to her intuition. And so she had heard it three times before she realized, oh my god, this might be true. I'm not sure about what happened when she got to the garage, but I think she told me the garage door was closed, and if I recall, right? And she said she thought I couldn't open it, so I wasn't there, so she was going to turn around, and something told her, Oh my God, my baby's in the freezer. As she flung open the garage door, and she opened up the freezer, and I was facing inward, and when she spun me around, I was ashen, she said, and my fingertips and toes were blue, and I wasn't breathing. And there were no cell phones. There were no garage door openers. And that was in the my day she went to run and get a phone screaming for my sister, who I believe was at school. So you know, she was just screaming for help, and she dropped me because she was running to get a phone, and she was in a state of panic, and I was big enough at five that picking me up might not have been easy in a state of panic, and the neighbors all heard her screaming, and I fell, and I cracked open my jaw, which I still had my little scar. So when I got better, and really got better, which was like, 18 hours later I was back. Basically, my mom said that I would say, you know, I see people, and I said, they're under my bed, they're in the corner of my room. They're looking in my windows, they're in the hallway. They were everywhere. I couldn't even go potty. I wouldn't walk down the hallway without calling someone. I was terrified. I thought they were the boogeyman, and I would cover my head and say, Go, wake, awake away. And they didn't, but they never hurt me. And then when I wasn't scared anymore, and life was going on, I was five, you forget really quickly. You know your fears, if it's gone and they come again. And that was kind of my life journey. Self love is the most powerful lesson we have to learn here. And if we can get there, even for a moment, we want more of it, because it feels so good and through that, we learn to be an acceptance and love of others. We learn to grow and trust the journey, and that's the purpose.
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