Divine Encounters Episode 066 | Near-Death Experience Story
Rev. Bill McDonald was staying at an ashram in India when his guru sent him for an ancient palm leaf reading that, he says, named his parents, his birthday and a past life ending in rainbow light. A year later, he says, he left his body during open heart surgery and climbed a hill to meet a circle of rishis. In this Divine Encounters episode he tells Alex Ferrari what he was told, what he was offered, and why he chose to come back.
Key Takeaways
- Bill says his guru sent him, against his skepticism, for a palm leaf reading that he understood to be written thousands of years ago.
- He describes the reader naming his own name, his father’s name, his mother’s name, his birthday and his wife, with no information given.
- He says the reading described a past life as a senior monk in Sri Lanka, and said his last 30 lifetimes ended in a rainbow body.
- He describes leaving his body at the start of open heart surgery and finding himself, fully clothed, at a temple he knew, climbing a hill toward a circle of rishis.
- He says a gentle voice offered him peace, bliss, joy and endless love if he let go, and that his guru told him to come back and teach others.
- His message: it is not about who loves you but who you love, and “whatever love is, that’s God.”
| Guest | Rev. Bill McDonald (William Hector McDonald Jr.) |
| Episode | Divine Encounters 066 |
| Where it began | An ashram in India, where Bill stayed for three or four months |
| What Bill says happened | A palm leaf reading, then an out-of-body experience during open heart surgery in Sacramento, California |
| Where he says he went | A Shiva temple, a hill path and a grove with a circle of rishis |
| Who he met | His guru, about 18 rishis, and a feminine voice from the clouds |
| The choice | Let go into bliss, or return and learn to handle pain in order to teach |
| The message | Love and serve without question |
Rev. Bill McDonald in India
Alex asks what life was like before Bill died. Bill answers by taking him to India. He says he had gone for three or four months at a time, staying at an ashram, and he was not just a visitor.
The guru he was staying with told him to go and get a palm leaf reading. Bill’s answer was a firm no. “I don’t believe in fortune telling,” he told him. The guru insisted it was different. “This will help you on your next stage of where you’re going spiritually,” he said.
Bill describes what he was told these readings are. Thousands of years ago, 18 rishis, holy sages, sat down and channeled the lives of future people who would be born over the following millennia. They wrote the stories on palm leaves, which were engraved and shellacked, and which have to be recopied every few hundred years. Bill notes that recopying can bring errors. The leaves are stored in about 20 places around India, so yours might be in a different city than the one where you ask.
He says he went along without much attachment. He considers himself a new ager but does not chase these things, and he does not need to know who he was in a past lifetime. He is, he says, very childlike about it. Something happens, and he thinks, okay, that’s cool.
The Palm Leaf Reading
You give no information, Bill explains. Men give a right thumbprint, and women a left one. That is all they have. He gave his and went to the place, and about three hours later they called him. In other places, he says, a leaf might not be found for six months, or at all, so the odds were against it. He was prepared to sit there until they found it.
The reader pulled out stacked bundles of leaves and asked yes or no questions. If the answer was no, he moved to the next. It took about seven bundles. At last the reader said, your name is four letters long. Bill is what he goes by, so he thought William was an easy guess. Then the reader said his father had the same name, and Bill is William Hector McDonald Jr. His father was Senior.
The reader named his mother, Marcella, though he pronounced it the way it sounded. He said both parents had passed. He said it was the right time for the reading, and offered a piece of information as a test: Bill had recently worked on a movie. Bill had, three weeks before, though not as an actor, and nobody at the ashram knew. Had he gone a year earlier or a year later, it would not have fit.
Then came his birthday, March 16, his wife’s name, Carol, and that they were still married. Two children, a boy, then a girl. It went through about 40 questions, Bill says, and every answer was yes. He writes books, gives lectures, wrote a book about the ashram. He has two gurus, one of them Babaji, whom the reading described as someone nobody can be a direct disciple of, and the other a living guru.
Bill thought that was the reading. He took out his wallet to pay. No, they told him, that was only the index card, to confirm they had the right man.
A Past Life and a Rainbow Body
Six hours later he went upstairs for the real reading. There were two interpreters, because the language went from the original to one man, then another, and then into English.
They gave him one past life that mattered to his present one. He had been a senior monk in Sri Lanka, at an ashram run by the same man whose ashram he was staying at now. His guru had phoned ahead and asked what Bill’s worst sin was. Bill was braced. He had seen people leave that room earlier in the day in tears, hearing about all kinds of things.
His worst sin, he says, was a thought. The guru was a married man with a beautiful wife, and Bill had thought how beautiful she was, and that he would like to have her. He did nothing. But it was against his vows, the guru read his mind, and he was cursed and sent away. He spent the rest of that lifetime wandering the mainland and the Ganges.
At the end of that life, according to the reading, he was bathing in the Ganges, went underwater, and came up into a blazing light that was the light of Shiva. He became a filament of rainbow colors and was gone. Bill calls it great storytelling around a campfire.
But the readers said that was how they read every one of his last 30 lifetimes, as far as they could go. “every lifetime you ended in a rainbow body,” and yet he keeps choosing to come back into pain and suffering, forgetting who he was, to walk the earth and help others. To explore how traditions describe this idea, see our glossary entries on reincarnation and karma.
A Short Future and a Hill
Then they read his future. This was 2010, Bill says, and they only saw about a decade. “You’re either going to die or Shiva or Babaji is going to ask you to stay.” If he stayed, it would be to work, not to write more books or watch baseball games. The date to watch was 2020.
Bill says everything they predicted for those ten years happened, except his death. One prediction was that he would travel to southern India to a special temple at the foot of a hill, and walk uphill two to four hours. At the top, they said, rishis would be waiting. They would not teach him, they said. They would awaken him. He already had the knowledge.
Open Heart Surgery in Sacramento
The next year, Bill says, he had a major heart attack and ended up in a hospital in Sacramento, California, headed for quadruple bypass surgery. He remembers lying on a steel table, naked and cold, and asking the doctor what would happen.
The doctor described it plainly, Bill says. He would be given a shot and would be unconscious for six to eight hours. His chest would be opened, arteries harvested from his legs, and his heart stopped while a machine kept blood and oxygen moving. Bill asked, “Doc, if my heart’s not beating and I’m not breathing, aren’t I dead?” The doctor laughed and said, technically, but the machine would keep him alive.
He was told to count backward from 100. He got to about 96, and then came the darkness he had known as a child.
Standing at the Shiva Temple
Then, all of a sudden, Bill was standing in his flesh and blood body in a cobblestone square. In front of him was a temple with a bull outside, a Shiva temple. People bumped into him. He could feel them, and they could see him and he could hear them.
He had no clothes on when he went under, he says, so he checked, and he was fully clothed, with sandals. “So I’m a modest astral traveler,” he laughs. He knew it was the temple from his instructions the year before, even though he could not remember its name.
A small path led up a hill, where pilgrims were walking. He had been told he would be out for six to eight hours, so he decided he had nothing better to do. He started to climb. He felt sweat and the incline. The only difference was that he did not feel himself breathing.
Every so often, he says, he felt movement inside his chest, as though hands and instruments were at work. It was as if surgery were going on in his body while he walked.
The Circle of Rishis and the Voice in the Clouds
After about two hours, Bill says, he reached a grove at the top. About 18 men or so, plus one, were sitting around on logs and rocks. They had matted hair and braids and unusual beards. There was a campfire. And among them was the guru who had sent him for the reading.
Bill asked what he was doing there. His guru told him, “you can skip a beat or two, but don’t give up heart.” He said it a couple of times.
Bill explains why that landed. The body he left behind was ravaged by pain. By his count it was his tenth, eleventh or twelfth heart attack, and he thinks he had eight stents. A part of him just wanted to go.
Then the clouds rolled across the hilltop, and a feminine voice came out of them, beautiful and sensual, he says. He pictures her as angelic and gorgeous. She said, “Bill, just give it up. Just let it go. Just stop. You’ve done enough.” She told him he had done what his karma said he was supposed to do. “I’m going to give you peace, bliss, joy and endless love,” she said.
It was tempting, he admits. He said, yeah, okay.
Why He Came Back
His guru gathered him up and said it again: skip a beat or two, but don’t give up. Bill asked why, since the woman was promising bliss and love. What was the guru promising him?
The answer, he says, was hard. If you come back, “you’re going to experience more pain than you ever had,” and the gift of simply blissing out of pain was gone. He would have to learn to handle pain like a regular person, “so you can teach others.” Bill jokes that he asked for the straight version: stay, great pain; leave, no pain.
The guru told him to look at the clouds. They were filled with thousands and thousands of faces: children, old people, teenagers, Indians, Mexicans, Irishmen, people of every kind. If he did not go back in the next decade or so, the guru said, those people would miss something. A smile. An understanding. A healing. Maybe a friendship that makes someone’s day.
“What did you add to anybody’s life?” he asks. Success, Bill concludes, is “not who loves you, but who did you love?” because being loved can be influenced by money, fame and fortune.
For a wider look at what people describe in moments like this, see our complete guide to near-death experiences.
Oneness and Love
Bill closes with how he sees things now. There is just one, he says. “there’s no time, there’s no space. It’s just the oneness.” You might call it consciousness. There is no separation between us. “Only in our minds is there separation,” and when we awaken, we know that we are God.
God is not a person, a gender, a Jesus or a Buddha, he says. God is only love. If anything is definitive, he says, “whatever love is, that’s God to love and to serve without question.” For more, see our glossary entry on oneness.
Questions to Sit With
- Bill was skeptical of the reading, and went anyway because someone he trusted asked. When has trust opened a door that skepticism would have kept shut?
- His guru asked what he added to anybody’s life. Whose life have you added something to this week, even by a smile?
- Bill says success is not who loves you but who you love. Who is on your list?
Today, do one small thing for someone who will never know it was you. A coffee paid for, a message of thanks, a held door.
Spiritual Takeaways
- Bill says a reading named his parents, his birthday and his wife without any information given.
- He says he was offered bliss and chose to return for the sake of others.
- He says pain, learned from the inside, can become the thing that lets us teach.
- He says there is no time, no space, only oneness.
- His message is that God is only love, and that love is to be given and served without question.
Please enjoy my conversation with Rev. Bill McDonald.
Guest Links: Connect With Rev. Bill McDonald
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Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Rev. Bill McDonald?
Rev. Bill McDonald, who gives his full name as William Hector McDonald Jr., is an author and lecturer who tells host Alex Ferrari about a palm leaf reading in India and an experience he says he had during open heart surgery.
What is a palm leaf reading?
Bill describes them as readings written on palm leaves thousands of years ago by 18 rishis, who he says channeled the lives of people to be born in the future. You give only a thumbprint, and the readers search for your leaf.
What did the reading say about Bill?
He says the reader named his name, his father’s name, his mother’s name, his birthday and his wife’s name without any information being given, and described his work as an author and lecturer.
What was his past life, according to the reading?
He says it described a past life as a senior monk in Sri Lanka, who was cursed and sent away after a thought about his guru’s wife, and who ended that life bathing in the Ganges in the light of Shiva.
What is a rainbow body?
Bill says the readers told him that his last 30 lifetimes each ended in a rainbow body, a filament of rainbow colors, and that he keeps choosing to come back to help others.
What happened during his surgery?
He says that after the anesthesia he found himself in a cobblestone square outside a Shiva temple, fully clothed, and climbed a hill where a circle of rishis and his guru waited.
What was Bill offered at the top of the hill?
He says a feminine voice from the clouds offered him peace, bliss, joy and endless love if he let go.
Why did he come back?
He says his guru told him he would feel more pain if he returned but could learn to handle it and teach others, and showed him thousands of faces of people who would miss something if he did not.
What does Bill say about God?
He says God is not a person or a gender, and that God is only love.
Is a near-death experience proof of an afterlife?
Next Level Soul shares near-death experiences as lived experiences told in the person’s own words. Researchers continue to study and debate what they mean. Nothing here is medical advice or a medical claim.
Keep Exploring
- The complete guide to near-death experiences
- What is a near-death experience? (glossary)
- What is reincarnation? (glossary)
- What is oneness? (glossary)
- A man who turned dying into awakening
- How to prepare the soul for transition and find peace before death
- A professor is shown the astral world and the levels of heaven
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- Browse more free masterclasses and the Divine Encounters podcast.
Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:00
Tell me what your life was like before you died.
Rev. Bill McDonald 0:08
When I was in India staying at Ashley, I'd go over India. I'd stayed three, four months. I was I wasn't just a visitor. I mean, I'd stay in really block off some time, and the guru I was staying with at the time said, I want you to go out and get a naughty a naughty palm leaf reading. And I said, I don't believe in fortune telling. He says, oh, no, no. This is different. This is different. I said, No. And I said, No, no, no, no. This is different. You need this. This will help you on your next stage of where you're going spiritually. And I'm going so he told me about what it was because I had no idea what it was. I'm thinking you're reading your palms or something, no, 2500 to 5000 years ago, these 18, I think there was 18 Rishis is holding men sages. They sat down and they channeled the lives of future people going to be born over the next several 1000 years, you know, 1000s of years. And they would write stuff down, and it was written on a palm leaf, you know, the hard part of the palm. They take the frongs off, and then they would, somebody would describe it and engrave it. Then it's shellac it. And it would last for, you know, a few 100 years, and then it deteriorates. Somebody had to redo it. So consequently, someone been redone a few times, which lends itself to errors just by the fact that somebody else redoing it. So I'm told that I'm going, Yeah, okay. So somebody 5000 years ago, or 2500 years ago, has written one of these for me. If you're supposed to have one, you will have one. And the first time I ever heard about these was from somebody that used to be in SRF, and he formed his own group, Ananda, brother kriya nada. He wrote a book about these things, prophecies and things and stuff. And at the time, I'm going, Yeah, okay, this is cool. I'm not much into it, even though I'm a new ager and a lot of neat stuff happens. But I'm not. I don't chase it. I'm not. I don't need to know who I was in the past lifetime. What this is, what that means. I just, I'm very childlike. I just enjoy, oh, that happened. Okay, that's cool. All right. So in this reading I had, and in this reading is interesting, because you go in there and you don't tell them any information. You just give them a thumbprint for your man, you give your right footprint woman, a left front print, and that's all they have. You put an issue or number, whatever you want, next to it, so they know who, who to call in. And so I gave it. I went to this place, and about three hours later, they call me. And now some places, they may not find that for six months or at all, you know, so, but I was gonna sit there until they found it, which is really crazy, because it could take months, you know. So, I mean, because these things are stored all over India, like about 20 different places, so you may go to this place and they don't have yours, it's in deli, and you're in Pune, you know, it's like, what I all I was going all the odds were against it, right? So I go in there. I said, I'm personally the guy calls me in, and then he pulls out these. They look like Phoenician blinds. They're stacked. They'll ask you a question. If you say, No, you put seven wide. That's not you. You go the next one. So this was on about the seventh one of this bundle. And I kept saying, No, it was close, but you know, no. So he finally goes, your name start. Your name is four letters long. Well, my nickname, The name I go by every day, is Bill, right? So I'm thinking William on the Yeah, okay, I'll give him that. Okay, it's good guess four letters bill, yeah. I said, Okay. He says, it starts with B. I go, okay. He says it's B, you or whatever they they mispronounced it, but it was like, B, I L. He spelled it out right phonetically on this thing. It's, it's all about sounds. It's not so much in English. I didn't know that at the time. He says, Your name is Bill. He says, And your father name was being implied that he's no longer around and your father's name was also the same exact name as yours. I'm William Hector McDonald Jr. My dad was senior, so it's exactly the same name as mine. So when he says you had the same exact name as your father, I thought that's pretty good. What do these guys on a Google search or something? What's going on here, right? So then he goes, and your mother's name is, they blew it. They're not saying Marcella, because it's kind of Italian sounding. Of Marcella. I finally figured out what he was saying every Yes, and they said, so both your parents are dead, yes. And then the guy goes, in order for you to know, this is when you're supposed to have your reading. This is the right time. I'm going to give you a piece of information. If this is correct, then we're going to go ahead with the reading. He says, this is written here as a play, but this is written 1000s of years ago, he says, and that it's the guy that's reading it, this guru guy goes, my intuition says, you recently worked on a movie. And I go, Yes, three weeks before, and but not as an actor. And I go, that's true, but nobody at the ashram knew that. And had I been in there the year before? It wouldn't have made any sense. And had I been in there a year later, would have been not recently? No, you know. So it was like, okay, that's the right time. Then he goes, your birthday is March between 14 and 16? Is that correct? I go, yes. Then he goes, 16th. That's pretty good. March 16. Okay. And then he goes, and your wife's name is Carol, girl. My dreams, right, to grow my visions. I go, yes, and you're still married to her. Yes. You got two children, a boy, then a girl. That was true. So it went through 40 different questions. Answered, Yes, all you know. You write books. You currently write a book about you. You know about the gurus ashram you're staying at you wrote a book about your life, work, spiritual books. You give lectures, you give them all that stuff is right on, and then it goes, and you got basically two gurus. And so they gave me that, and was Babaji, which nobody could be a direct disciple, but they said Babaji. And then this guy was with, you know, kind of like a live version. Then I thought that was the end of the reading that gave me a bunch of stuff, and I took out my wallet I was going to pay him. No, no, no, no, no. That was the reading. That's just the index card. So now we can pull up do reading on you. I go, what I just saw, we know we got the right guy. So that was bells and whistles. I thought was the reading, and it wasn't. So six hours later, I go upstairs, and then you have two interpreters, but it goes from one language this thing's in and he reads it, this other guy understands that, and he gives the language this other guy that, and then this other guy gives it to me in English. So they go and they gave me a past life reading. They took one past life that was significant, that was affecting me. So they picked one and said, you had a former lifetime, a significant lifetime in Sri Lanka, but you were the senior monk at an ashram run by the guy that you're presently staying at his ashram. You were at his ashram back then, and then the guru that sent me for this reading in a note or telephone conversation says, I want to know what his worst sin was. So basically, I go, this could be great, because I've seen people leaving that room earlier during the day that were crying. You know, one guy beheaded a bunch of people, somebody burned somebody alive, somebody was an adulterous and a crook and a criminal indict. I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff, right? So I've got my worst sin ever. So the guy says, Okay, I was told to give this to you. I'm going to tell you your worst sin ever. You're at the ashram. The guru was a married man. Had a beautiful wife, and you had a thought how beautiful she was, and you'd like to have her, and I'm going, that's it. Did I do anything? No, it's against your vows, but the guru reads your mind, and you were cursed and kicked out. So then you spent the rest of that lifetime wandering back on the mainland, on India and on the Ganges River, the last, last moments of your life, according to the reading, makes great story, last moments of life. I bathed in the Ganges I'm going underwater. I come up this blazing light, like sunlight right on top. And it's the light of Lord Shiva. Now you can't see Shiva, if you're alive, only if you did right? So there I am being made this light of Shiva. And I instantaneously become this rainbow, like a flight of filament of rainbow colors. And I just, I'm gone in this rainbow light. And then, according to the guy doing the reading, which makes great fiction, makes good storytelling around a campfire. But basically they said, This is how we read every one of your last 30 lifetimes, so far as we can go, every lifetime you ended in a rainbow body, and yet you keep choosing to come back pain and suffering over and over again, forgetting everything you who you were, what you were, and you come back time and time again to walk and tread this earth, to help and assist others. So he went on, and then they went on about now, let's read the future. He says, now your future's not very long. He says, this is like set in stone. He said, But we only see about it. This is 2010, we only see a decade. You're either going to die or Shiva or Babaji is going to ask you to stay. It's not your choice. If you stay, it's to work, not for you to rewrite more books, fool around, watch baseball games, you know. No, none of that. Otherwise, that's your choice. But 2020 there's something going on. If you're going to leave, that will be 2020 so on the predictions that they made for the future of those 10 years, everything except my death happened, and one of the things they predicted was at a certain date in the future, I was to travel to southern India, and I supposed to go to this special temple, and is sitting at the foot of some hill, mountain place. I was supposed to take a journey and walk uphill two to four hours, whatever it took walking up this hill. And the top of this hill waiting for me would be the rishis, and they would impart knowledge. And the guy goes, that's a strong word. He says, all they're going to do is awaken. He's going to open the door for you. Already have this knowledge. Now, the next year I come, I have a major heart attack. Lot of beautiful things happen. I see her test for I have vision of him. Things happen just I end up in a hospital in Sacramento, California, and I'm rolling in the operating room for quadruple bypass, open heart surgery, and the doctors telling me, as I'm laying naked on his steel, stainless steel table, butt naked, freezing my butt off. And I've never been in a hospital room, they don't have the temperatures up because they don't want bacteria to grow, right? So it's always cold. So I'm laying there, and I'm asking the doc. I said, Okay, Doc, what's gonna happen? He says, Well, I'm gonna give you a shot. You're gonna go unconscious six to eight hours from now, you'll be kind of coming out of it. We'll be through the surgery, and then I'll pull you out of that stupor when I think you're stabilized. We're going to cut and rip open your chest. It shows me this, this device that's it looks like pruning shears. It'll click, click, click, cut your ribs. And we're going to hold this thing open. It says, And then. Okay, we're going to cut and we're going to harvest some arteries from your legs, and we're going to harvest, you know, from your and then once we get all that stuff harvested, ready to go, he says, Hey, I'm going to stop I'm going to shock your heart and stop it, or whatever the holiday or stop it. I can't remember if they shock it and stop it. I don't know, somehow they stop it. So he says, I'm going to stop your heart, but I'm cutting your arteries and they're going into this heart lung machine, and we're going to pump blood through that and oxygenated from this big thing, so you don't have to breathe. Your lungs will be shut down. Your heart will be shut down. You're going to be artificially kept alive by this machine is going to pump oxygen into you. I look at the doctor going, Doc, if my heart's not beating and I'm not breathing, aren't I dead? And he laughed to go, oh, well, technically, well, you know, we're they keep me alive on this machine. You know, the flesh and blood's gonna be kept alive. Gives me a shot. He goes, count backwards from 100 I get to about 96 and darkness, that dark darkness I had as a child, except all of a sudden, I'm standing in my flesh and blood body in a patio area a square. It's all Cobblestone and everything. But I'm looking right at a temple, and it has this bull out there, you know, outside the temple, that's Shiva temple. It's got the bull right. And I look around, and people are bumping into me, and I feel them. They looking at me. And they feel me. They see me. I hear them well. Before I got here, I had no clothes on, so I kind of take a look. I got clothes on. So I'm a modest astral traveler. I replicated whatever I was fully clothed, and I got sandals on. And looking around, I go, what was the instructions I had the year before when you get to this temple? And I knew it was that temple, even though I couldn't remember the name of it. And I look up and there's a small path going up this hill. There's some pilgrims walking up there and stuff, and I'm going, I got nothing better do. The guy told me, six to eight hours on behalf, take a journey. I got sweat coming down. I'm feeling the uphill grade. I don't feel myself breathing. That's the only difference. I don't feel like I'm breathing, but I am moving. And my feet are moving. The body is functioning. And every once in a while, my body would have movement inside the chest. It was like there was hands and instruments and things going on. It was like there was surgery going on inside the body. It was like I could feel that there was things going on, right? So about two hours, whatever amount of time it was, I get to this rising at the top, and there's this grove sitting there, and sitting around are about 18 guys or so plus one. It's like Jamaica, all this crazy hairs, you know, and braids, weird stuff, weird beards, yeah, it's all that kind of weird stuff. I'm going in all sitting there, drawing logs. They're on rocks, they're standing they're fooling around. There's a campfire there. There's a mystery person or two there. But also joining this group was this guru that sent me to get that read. He was there, and I looked at him, and it's like, you know, what are you doing? What's going on? And so he looks at me, and he says, you can skip a beat or two, but don't give up heart. What do you mean? Don't give up heart. Said it to me a couple times. There's a part of it just says that body was so ravaged with pain, that body that I left was in such bad shit that was like my 10th, 11th or 12th heart attack. Can't remember which it was a bad shape. I may have had eight stents and everything. So there was a part of me that just wanted to go but then this beautiful female voice comes the clouds, goodness clouds. The clouds kind of roll out on this hilltop a little bit, and then I hear this voice coming from this cloud, and this woman's voice goes and it sounded like it was a very sensual, beautiful feminine voice. I mean, she was like, I'm picturing this 21 year old, beautiful, virgin lady, angelic, Romanian look gorgeous, and I hear this voice says, Bill, just give it up. Just let it go. Just stop. You've done enough. You've done what your karma says you're supposed to do. You don't have to do anything anymore. Let it go. I'm going to give you peace, bliss, joy and endless love. Wow, this is pretty good. Yeah, you know it's tempting. I'm going, yeah, yeah, okay. You know it's so then this guru guy there gathers at the astronaut. He goes, Yeah. He goes back to this skip a beat or two, but don't give up. Don't give up art, right? Don't give it up. And I go, why? She's promising me bliss, joy, love, what are you promising me? He says, you come back, you're going to experience more pain than you ever had your life. You're going to have to learn to deal with pain, because before you get pain and you just bliss out, done with pain, you know, but now that gift is gone, you're going to have to learn how to handle pain like a regular person, so you can teach others. I go, sorry, so give me the straight so I stay, I get great pain. I leave, I get no pain. And then he finally goes, No Look at this. And pretty soon, those clouds, remember, those clouds were filled with visions of the future. These were just images of faces, children, even animals, old people, young people, teenagers, 30s, 40s, Indians, Mexicans, Irishmen, black spanics. Didn't matter what they were, it was 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of faces. And this guru was saying, if you don't go back in this next decade or so, all these people will miss something. They don't have to have it, but they will miss something a gift from you, even if it's just a smile or understanding, a healing, spiritually, mentally, physically, spiritually, maybe you'll befriend somebody. And that makes their day. Maybe you'll inspire somebody, he says, but everyone, these people, will miss something from their lives. In the end, what did you add to this creative world? What did you add to anybody's life? So at the end, it's not about who loves you, because that could be influenced by money, fame, fortune, not who loves you, but who did you love? So to be successful, in a way, there's an ego on my part, also says to be successful. I hope I've missed to me, there's only one, there's just one, there's no time, there's no space. It's just the oneness. You call it, maybe consciousness, but it's just oneness. There's no separation between us. Only in our minds is there separation, but in reality there's when we awake, we know that we're God. There's no logic to retain this memory of who you are. There's separation. So no, God is not a person, a gender, Jesus, a Buddha is only love. So if anything's definitive, I'd say whatever love is, that's God to love and to serve without question.
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