Divine Encounters Episode 069 | Near-Death Experience Story
M.K. McDaniel was exhausted from months of caring for a dying friend when, she says, a severe illness put her in a medically induced coma and she woke in a dark place she can only call hell. In this Divine Encounters episode she tells Alex Ferrari about the frightening landscapes she says she moved through, the carol that she says changed everything, and the lesson about love and lightness she brought back.
Key Takeaways
- M.K. says she cared for a friend through almost eight months of leukemia treatment, then fell gravely ill herself and was placed in a drug induced coma.
- She describes waking in total darkness, a place she later learned to call the void, then hearing a voice ask, “Do you know where you are?”
- She says the scenes kept changing and getting worse, with no clocks and no time, and that she felt it lasted about two years.
- She describes a demon who offered her a way out if she cut down a field of blackberry canes with kindergarten scissors, and who laughed when they grew back.
- She says she began singing a Christmas carol, others joined, and light, love and warmth flooded in.
- Her message: lighten up, and remember that “It’s how much you love” that counts.
| Guest | M.K. McDaniel |
| Episode | Divine Encounters 069 |
| Before | Eight months of caring for a friend with leukemia |
| What M.K. says happened | She became gravely ill, was placed in a drug induced coma, and describes entering a hellish place |
| Where she says she went | The void, a ruined city, a road to nowhere, a cold shack, then heaven and a meadow with a stream |
| Who she met | A demon, a demon woman, a former fiancé and three women with messages |
| What changed it | Singing “Away in a Manger” |
| The message | Lighten up; it is how much you love |
Months of Caring, Then Illness
Alex asks what life was like before M.K. died. She answers with eight months of caregiving. She had been looking after her best friend, who was going through treatment for leukemia. They thought it would be a two or three month ordeal. It became almost eight months, and by the time he died, she says, she was pretty much a physical and emotional wreck.
A bad flu was going around, and she picked it up. It became pneumonia. She got very sick and had a friend take her to a walk-in clinic. Before they got there, she got out of the car and felt her life force “just kind of leaking out.” She fell to the ground. Her friend carried her in.
She woke in a hospital in an oxygen tent with her family around her. They had come from California and Colorado, and she was living in Washington at the time. She remembers thinking, what’s going on?
A Coma, a Thumbs Up and Darkness
Her family told her she was very sick, she says. This was 23 years ago, she explains, and the condition was new to the doctors. She says they gave her about a 38 percent chance of making it, and that she was something of a guinea pig. They planned to put her into a drug induced coma and intubate her, and to give her a medication so she would remember nothing while she was gone.
She had no other options. Her dad gave her a thumbs up. She gave him a thumbs up and waved goodbye to everybody. Then black.
Then, all of a sudden, she was awake and conscious in total darkness. Later she learned this was called the void, she says, but at the time she thought someone had stuck her in a closet. It was quiet. She did not know whether she was standing or sitting, so she decided not to move in case she hurt herself. She waited and waited.
Fog, a Voice and Running
If this part of M.K.’s story is hard to hear, you can pause here. She describes it without gore, and we will do the same.
Slowly it got lighter, with a reddish glow, she says. She thought the sun was coming up. Fog swirled around her, so she could not see anything. Then she heard moaning and shrieking, and it got warm, and there was a terrible smell.
A voice came out and asked, “Do you know where you are?” Her mind raced. The only thing she could come up with was hell. She says she freaked out. She turned left and ran into the darkness. She did not care if she hit a wall or fell into a hole. She had to get away from that thing.
A Ruined City and a Road to Nowhere
Bright lights came up, she says, and she was in something like New York City after a bomb. Buildings were falling, windows blown out, fires everywhere, people screaming. She hid behind concrete to look for clues.
Eventually a ragtag group approached, like a homeless camp. She offered to help find firewood and water. One man said, “we are all alone here.” She decided it was too frightening and started running.
It happened over and over, she says. The lights would go out and come up on a new scene, and each time the scenario got worse. There was a metal scuttering sound she compares to aliens. She fell, expecting it to hurt, and then it went black again.
There was also a road to nowhere, where she walked and walked. There is no time there, she says. No clocks, and the sun does not rise or set. Afterward, she tried to build a timeline from what she remembered, and the closest she could come was about two years. She says she met two living people on that road and gave each a message, which she says is very rare. She also says someone plans to study the very few people who have reported seeing living people there.
The Demon and the Blackberry Canes
Sometimes she was challenged, she says. One time the lights came up and a huge demon was standing there, far away, holding a big stick. She knew what he was. She says he looked like a bigfoot with a bad attitude.
He asked, “you want to get out of here?” She said yes. He said he could make that happen. He needed one thing from her. He did not seem as if he would hurt her, she says, and in a place like that you adapt.
Behind him, the lights came up on a huge field of blackberry canes, high and twisted, with big thorns. She knows how hard they are to cut, she says, living where she has lived. He handed her a pair of kindergarten scissors, the kind you cut paper with, and started laughing.
She thought he was a creep. But if it was a chance to get out, she would do it. She crawled in and gnawed away at one cane, finally cut it, put it behind her, turned around to grab another, and the first one had grown back. The demon found that hilarious.
“I’m a fighter, I’m a survivor,” she says. She decided to keep cutting if she had nowhere else to go. Then the lights went out and came up on another place.
For a wider look at how people describe distressing experiences alongside the peaceful ones, our complete guide to near-death experiences is a good place to begin.
The Shack and the Carol
Toward the end, the road took a dark turn. She says a demon woman told her, “You’re with us.” She joined a group of women who were led out through the snow, to a hideous little shack in the middle of nowhere. There was no insulation, and snow blew in. They sat on the floor, waiting for customers.
M.K. told her she had been there a long time and this seemed a particularly dark time. The woman answered, “it’s Christmas on Earth. That’s always the worst day in hell.” Up to that point, M.K. says, she really did not know she was dead. Your soul is you, she says, and it is alive whether it is in a body or not.
She decided she was not going to sit there. She started singing her favorite Christmas carol, Away in a Manger, just to annoy the woman. The woman screamed at her to shut up. M.K. kept going. Some of the other women began to sing too. The demon woman shouted and waved her stick. At one point in the song, the woman screamed and leapt at her, and M.K. shut her eyes.
Light, Love and a Familiar Face
When the lights came up, she says, it was a whole different story. Everything was infused with incredible love, light, warmth, joy and bliss. All the rest was wiped from her mind. “I was just swimming in love,” she says. It was wonderful.
Then it began to settle. Everything was still white, with walls and what looked like an archway. Off to her right, weirdly, was an architect’s table with a huge book open about halfway. She felt that someone was showing her something in it. She said she wanted to stay.
She looked up and there was her former fiancé, who had died of leukemia the month before. He had lost his hair and looked blotchy and blue at the end. Now he looked great. Instead of 52, he looked 35, laughing, with brown hair instead of gray.
She thought, he does not know he is dead. Then he laughed harder, and she worked it out. If he was dead, she was dead too, and they were in heaven. She was thrilled. She suggested they go see the angels and butterflies. He told her, she says, that she had too much left to do and that they were throwing her out. She said no, no, no. Then she was gone.
For more on how people describe this kind of arrival, see our glossary entry on heaven.
A Meadow, a Stream and Three Women
She thinks she went to a time out place, a beautiful meadow with a stream. Going back along it, she met three women who gave her messages.
The first handed her a handmade quilt and spoke in a lilting language she did not understand. The second, on a sandbar, in a rocking chair, got up, happy to see her, and handed her a piece of lace. The third spoke at first in a language she could not follow, and then it became English. She said, “Give this to Ron. You must live together.” M.K. found a piece of paper in her hand.
Then the lights came up, too bright. People were screaming. She could not move. She thought, now what? Am I back in hell? Her daughter turned around and said Mom was back, and her mother cheered. M.K. could not talk because of the breathing tube. Her daughter told her she had been very sick and that they had been told she would die, but she was here. M.K. remembers thinking they had no idea where she had been. She had been in heaven, and now she was here, with too much left to do.
Placing M.K.’s Account Beside Others
Not every near-death account is gentle, and M.K.’s is one of the harder ones. Researchers keep working to understand how common and how varied these reports are. In a well-known 2001 study in The Lancet, Pim van Lommel and colleagues found that 62 of 344 cardiac arrest survivors, about 18 percent, reported a near-death experience. M.K.’s was not a cardiac arrest, and what any of it means is still debated.
What stands out in her story is what she says she took from it. The frightening scenes shifted with a single act of defiance and joy: a song. And on the far side, she says, the first thing she met was a familiar face laughing.
Lighten Up
M.K. says God must have a great sense of humor, because the worst thing about hell was that “Nobody had a sense of humor.” It is what gets you through, she says. Lighten up. The stuff we deal with day to day is not that important in the long run.
“Nobody gets in because they got enough money or enough power or enough fame.” It is how much you love, she says, and she links that to the life review. She loves what she hears about it, including being shown how it felt to be on the other side of every interaction. That encourages her to be kind now.
Her list, she says, is the one she gives everyone: “loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non judgmental and useful.” For more on the life review, see our glossary entry on the life review.
Questions to Sit With
- M.K. says she sang a carol just to tick off a demon. What is a small act of joy you can lean on when things feel heavy?
- She says the day-to-day stuff is not that important in the long run. What are you carrying that might deserve a lighter grip?
- Of her list, loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non judgmental and useful, which one is hardest for you?
Pick the one word from M.K.’s list you find hardest, and practice it once today in a small, real way.
Spiritual Takeaways
- M.K. says the soul is alive whether it is in a body or not.
- She says nobody gets in because of money, power or fame, only because of how much they love.
- She says humor is a way through even the darkest places.
- She says the life review shows how each interaction felt to the other person.
- Her message is to be loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non judgmental and useful.
Please enjoy my conversation with M.K. McDaniel.
Guest Links: Connect With M.K. McDaniel
Listen to the Episode
- Watch this episode ad-free on Next Level Soul TV
- Download the MP3
- More episodes: Divine Encounters
- Listen to Divine Encounters on Apple Podcasts
- Listen to Divine Encounters on Spotify
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is M.K. McDaniel?
M.K. McDaniel is a near-death experiencer who tells host Alex Ferrari about a severe illness 23 years ago and the experience she says she had while in a drug induced coma.
What happened to M.K. before her experience?
She says she spent almost eight months caring for her best friend during treatment for leukemia, then caught the flu, which became pneumonia, and she collapsed.
What does M.K. say she experienced?
She describes waking in darkness, then a series of frightening scenes she calls hell, including a ruined city, a road to nowhere and a cold shack.
What was the demon’s offer?
She says a demon told her he could get her out if she cut down a field of blackberry canes with kindergarten scissors. When the canes grew back, he laughed.
How long was she there?
She says there is no time there, but from piecing it together she estimates about two years.
What changed things?
She says she began singing Away in a Manger, other women joined, and at one point in the song light, love, warmth and joy flooded in.
Who did she see in heaven?
She says she saw her former fiancé, who had died of leukemia the month before. She says he looked about 35 and was laughing.
What messages did the three women give her?
She says one gave her a quilt, one gave her lace, and one said, in English, to give something to Ron and that they must live together.
What is M.K.’s main lesson?
She says to lighten up, and that it is how much you love, not money, power or fame, that counts.
Is a near-death experience proof of an afterlife?
Next Level Soul shares near-death experiences as lived experiences told in the person’s own words. Researchers continue to study and debate what they mean. Nothing here is medical advice or a medical claim.
Keep Exploring
- The complete guide to near-death experiences
- What is a near-death experience? (glossary)
- What is a life review? (glossary)
- A man describes a chilling experience of being clinically dead for 45 minutes
- A boy describes a demonic near-death experience
- A scientist reviews patterns across 1,700 near-death experiences
- A woman is saved by the Holy Spirit after a tragic murder
- An angry atheist and addict is stunned by who she met in heaven
- Browse more free masterclasses and the Divine Encounters podcast.
Follow Along with the Transcript
Alex Ferrari 0:00
Tell me what your life was like before you died.
M.K. McDaniel 0:08
I'd been caring for my best friend who was going through treatment for leukemia, and we thought it was going to be a two or three month ordeal, but it turned into almost eight months, and by the time he died, I was pretty much a physical, emotional wreck, and there was a bad flu going around. I picked it up. It became pneumonia, and then I got super sick, and had to have a friend take me to a dock in the box. And before we got there, I got out of the car, and just I felt my life force just kind of leaking out. It was the weirdest thing, and I just fell to the ground. He carried me in. They got me going again. I wake up in a hospital with an oxygen tent and my family around. And they're from California. I was living in Washington at the time, and Colorado, and I thought, what's going on? You know? They said, wow, you're super sick. You've got something called ARDS acute respiratory distress syndrome, the doctor said you got about a 38% chance of making it, because this is kind of new to us. This was 23 years ago. I was kind of a guinea pig for the project. We're not sure what to do, but we're going to put you into a drug induced coma. We're going to intubate you my scar to prove it, and then we're going to do our best, you know, but we're gonna give you something called White amnesia, so you will remember nothing. Your brain will just shut down as far as remembering anything while you're gone. And hopefully, you know, we'll see you, see you soon. But I had no options, so and my dad gave me a thumbs up and gave him a thumbs up and waved goodbye to everybody, and black. All of a sudden, I woke up. I was conscious. It was totally dark. Later, I'd learned that was the void, but at the time, I thought somebody had stuck me in a closet. It was just quiet, and I thought, What is going on? And I didn't know if I was standing or sitting, and I thought, I better not move. I might, you know, hurt myself. So I just kind of hung out and thought this was kind of strange and and waiting and waiting and waiting, and then all of a sudden it started to get a little lighter that got my attention. It was kind of like a reddish glow. And I thought, sun's coming up. Great, you know, maybe I can see what's going on. And as it got lighter, this fog was swirling around, so I really couldn't see anything. And I thought, what's going on? And then I started hearing moaning and shrieking, and started getting kind of warm, and I smelled really bad. I'm just thinking, I don't know what's going on. And all of a sudden, scared me half to death. This voice comes out and says, Do you know where you are? I thought mine's racing. Only thing I could come up with was hell. And then that thing just scared living, you know, what out of me. So I just freaked out, and I turned to the left. I mean, you never forget this stuff. It's always very fresh. And ran into the darkness. I didn't care if I hit a wall or fell on a hole or what, I had to get away from that thing, and all of a sudden it was like, light, bright lights came up. And I looked around and oh my gosh, I'm like, in New York City after a bomb, buildings are falling down, the windows are blown out. There's fires everywhere. There's people screaming. I mean, it was like, What now, you know? And I thought, well, I'm out here in the middle of this, you know, parking lot, what's remaining? I better go hide, because I don't know if there's been a war or what's going on. So I tucked in behind some concrete, and was just, you know, trying to look and see and get some clues. And I do remember seeing there was like, eventually this ragtag bunch of people kind of started toward me. And I thought, like a homeless camp, people were coming at me. And I thought, Oh no, you know. And I just said, Well, maybe we can get together, you guys, you know, you know, I'll get some fire for the you know, firewood when you find some water. And this one guy just said, we are all alone here. Where's here? And I thought, No, this is just too scary and that. And I thought, well, I better find another place. So I started running. There was this metallic scuttering sound like, like aliens, you know, expletive, here. So I tried to get up this concrete kind of wall thing. But I fell, and I was going backwards on my back, and I thought, this is going to hurt. And then it all went black again. The lights would come up. This happened over and over and over. And each time, God, the scenario got worse. And a lot of times I was challenged. The time I woke up or the lights came up and and here's this huge demon standing there. And I thought, I know this is a demon. It looks like a big foot with a bad attitude, but I just know that's what it is, holding a big stick. And it was very far away. And I looked up, and I just stared. And I thought, Oh, now what? And he says, you want to get out of here? Yeah. And he's. Says, I can make that happen. And I said, I thought that was strange. He was speaking English, you know. And I said, okay, yeah, sure. What do you got? And he says, well, I need you to do one thing for me. So sure, I'll take a look. He didn't seem to be gonna hurt me, you know. I just it's so weird to be in a place like that. You adapt, all right. So the lights come up behind him, and as far as you can see, is this huge BlackBerry field with it really high canes are all twisted up and the big old thorns on them. In Washington and a lot of places I've lived, they grow wherever nature pours a vacuum. So anytime there's an empty space, blackberries come up. And I know how hard it is to cut them, and you usually need really thick gloves and thick cutters and all that stuff. So I looked at that, and I went, you know? And he says, just cut those down for me. Save me the job. I'll get you out here. And then he hands me these kindergarten scissors that they cut paper with. And then he starts laughing. And I thought, Oh, you creep. I said, All right, you're not gonna I'm up to this, you know, you're just being a creep. But I'm, if it's a chance to get out of here, I'm gonna do it. So I scritched down in there. I'm going to all cut up and I'm gnawing on one of these damn canes. And finally get one cut, and I put it behind me. I turned back around to grab another one, and the thing grew back. Now, this demon person just thinks that's hilarious. You know, he's really laughing. And, you know, I'm a fighter, I'm a survivor. And I thought, I'm just going to show him. I'm going to keep doing this if I got no place else to go, even though. So I start cutting. But then the lights went out, and then the lights came up, and I was in another place. There's no time over there, so you really, you don't have a watch. There's no clocks. There's Sun doesn't come up and down. You don't know how long you're there. When I got home, I'm back home is not, not here. When I got back to my body, I was in pretty terrible shape. I couldn't move or anything. So I kind of recreated what went on to try and figure out a timeline. And the closest I could come up with all the time that I was on this road. Also, there was this road to nowhere that I was on a lot, walking, walking, walking, I think two years. That's what it felt like, with all that that went on at the very end after it was going to get so much worse. I mean, like I say, they kept getting worse and worse. We went to the road. I met two living people, which was very rare. In fact, there's a lady that's going to start doing a study on the very few people that have seen alive, people and hell, because I had to give them both messages. But the one there was a terrible one in an abortion clinic there was coming off the road toward the end. Of course, I didn't think this was ever going to add. I noticed up ahead of me, it looked to be people on this road, and they were kind of wandering back and forth. And they didn't look human, because they were lurching and muttering, and, you know, think zombies. And I thought, this is really dangerous. I don't I've got this road is the only road there is, and I've got to get through. So I thought, well, if I just kind of adapt their stance and mutter and keep my eyes down, I can get through the group onto the other side of the road. So I got about halfway in, and all of a sudden they all froze. And I thought, oh, been made, you know. And so the ladies, the ones with rags on their heads, and they moved to the outside. The male portion of this mob moved to all around me, and then one pushed me and another one knocked me down. And then there was a very unpleasant interchange of things. You know, you can imagine what a mob would do to a single lady in the dark over there. So this was a horrible experience. And then just be the last guy up said, we've all got AIDS, and now you're going to get it, and you can't die. So you're just going to get worse and worse and worse, and you'll look like us, and he had skin falling off his face and all that stuff. So demon lady came over and said, You're with us. And I got up, left my clothes together, and joined a whole bunch of other ladies that were going to tromp on out follow this lady. At this point, I was getting kind of tired, and I thought, maybe I'm not going to get out of here, but I'm a stealth fight anyway. We went through as this the snow started, and we got into this deep snow thing. We finally got out to this hideous little shack out in the middle freaking nowhere, and the wind's blowing, and we go in the shack, and there's no insulation. The snow is coming in. We're all cold, and we're sitting on the floor. And she says, Now we wait for customers and perky little thing. And then I said to her, you know, I've been here a long time, and this seems like a particularly dense, dark so what's going on? She says, Oh, well, it's Christmas on Earth. That's always the worst day in hell. And to that point, I really didn't know I was dead. Your soul is is you, and it's alive, whether it's incarnated in a body or not. So that was a little depressing and and to think that, you know, I thought, No, I'm gonna get out of here. I'm not gonna sit, sit. And just had this happen. So I started singing a Christmas carol just to tick her off, and she screamed at me to shut up. And I just kept going. And it was my favorite Christmas carol Away in a manger, and some of the other ladies started singing too. And now the demon ladies shouting and waving her stick around and all that other stuff. And I got to a certain part in the song, and she screamed and leapt at me like the spider, and I just shut my eyes, and when the lights came up, it was a whole different story, just infused with this incredible love and light and warmth and joy and bliss and and all that other stuff just wiped from my mind. I was just swimming in love as all I can describe it. It's wonderful. It was just light and love and all that. But then it started kind of settling down, and I could kind of make out everything was still white, but the floor and there was kind of walls and kind of not a ceiling, but a archway or something. And I looked off to the right, and there was, weirdly enough, like an architect's table with this huge book, and it was open about halfway. I thought, when I looked at that book, I thought, Whoa, wait a minute. Somebody was showing me something in that book. And I said to them, no, no, I want to stay here with you. And I looked up, and there's my fiance, ex fiance, former fiance that had died the month before, and he's standing there and and he died of leukemia, and all his hair had fallen out, and it was all blotchy and blue and everything. And now you look great instead of 52 he looks like he's 35 and and he was laughing, and his hair was brown instead of gray. And and I thought, What the heck, you know? And I thought, oh, shoot, he doesn't know he's dead. And then he started really laughing. And I thought, oh, wait a minute, if he's dead, you know, brilliant. I figured it out I'm dead too, and we're in heaven. Doesn't get any better than this. And I was, happy to see him. And I says, Why are we standing here? I said, Let's go see the angels and the butterflies and all the good stuff. And he came a little closer, and he says, Now, Mary Kay, you've got too much left, too what they're throwing me out. I said, No, no, no. And bye, bye. I think I went to a time out place, and it was beautiful, you know, nice meadow, pretty, you know, the stream and all this stuff. So I had followed this stream back. And during that time, I met three different ladies who gave me messages and stuff. So there was a lady sitting or standing there going down this stream, and she had, like, a quilt or something handmade. And I thought, just says, get any weirder, you know? She handed me the quilt, and I said, thanks. And she spoke to me in a language I didn't understand, but it was that lilting kind of dealer seniority, yeah, you can hear from the Swedish people or whatever. And I thought, okay, you know? So I took the quilt. I'm walking down the stream trying not to trip on the rocks and come around. And there's like a sandbar with a lady in a rocking chair, and she had, like, I don't know, a lace 90 or something like that. And she gets up and she hands it, and she's, you know, happy to see me. And so now I gotta, I gotta quilt on one shoulder, and I got this thing on the other. And I thought, okay, so I came down to the bottom, and there was in one more lady. And I thought, Okay. And she's speaking blah, blah, blah, but and all of a sudden it becomes English, and she says, Give this to Ron. You must live together. So I got this piece of paper in my hand, so then I wake up. Lights come up, and there's these people, and they're all screaming, and the lights are too bright, and I can't move. And I thought, now what? I'm back in hell. Oh no. And my daughter turns around, says, Mom's back, and my mother's screaming, yay. And I thought, what's going on? And they come over, and I can't talk. I got that thing my throat, and oh, she says, Oh, Mom, you've been so sick. We thought, you know, they told us you were gonna die, but you're not. You're you're here, and we're so happy, and you've been really sick. And there's gonna be a lot of things you're gonna have to but right now, just don't worry. You're safe. You have no idea where I've just been. I was in heaven, and now I'm here. What with too much left to do. And, you know, God must have a great sense of humor, because that's was the worst thing about hell. Nobody had a sense of humor. You know, it just gets you through it. Lighten up, I guess would be the thing. Lighten up. It's not that the stuff that we deal on a day to day basis is just not that important in the long run. Nobody gets in because they got enough money or enough power or enough fame. It's how much you love. That's what what counts in the life review, you know, that's what I hear about that life review, I love that I was seeing my life. But that thing about flipping it around so you can feel how it it felt to interact with each person, another thing that encourages me to be kind now just to continue with the loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non judgmental and useful. That's I say, that to everyone.
Our Sponsors
- Next Level Soul TV: exclusive spiritual movies, series, audiobooks, courses and events. Get the app.
- Earthing.com: discover the science-based healing powers of earthing and grounding.
If you enjoyed today’s episode, watch and subscribe to Divine Encounters on YouTube.
