About the Book: This is an amazing true story of a female civilian employee of the Army Corps of Engineers in Basrah and Nasiriyah, Iraq. She was riding in a truck with other men when a roadside bomb destroyed the vehicle. Her body was so severely damaged that there was no possible way she could live. She vividly recounts her Near Death Experience (NDE) when she went out of the body to the spirit world.
There it was decided that her work on Earth was not done, and with the help of spirit guides, they repaired the body so she could reenter it. She retained the conscious memory of what happened, and more details returned during her time in the hospital. This is an amazing story of survival in wartime conditions.
This has happened to many others in Iraq, but how many remember the spiritual side of the experience? Before this experience, Sudman was dubious about anything that smacked of the paranormal. This experience made her a believer. She shares her story here for the first time to demonstrate that the paranormal is normal and to assist others who have had similar experiences.
This book is for anyone interested in near death experiences and out-of-body experiences. It is one of the first such books to come out of the Iraq conflict.
Please enjoy my conversation with Natalie Sudman.
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 181
Natalie Sudman 0:00
And I was standing right next to the truck. And I was with about eight other beings. And we were all talking about what I had agreed to do what talking about it kind of on a different level, if you think about like, the way I was talking about things with, with this huge array of 1000s was kind of like the overview or the management perspective of how to do things. And then when I'm standing next to the truck with these other eight or nine beings, we were discussing things more like from the ground level, you know, things can look very different from management level and from if you're the, the one pounding the nails right.
Alex Ferrari 0:45
I'd like to welcome to the show Natalie Sudman, how you doing, Natalie?
Natalie Sudman 1:04
I'm doing well. Alex, thanks for having me.
Alex Ferrari 1:06
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to hear about your fairly boring journey in life that you've had self. Your, your NDE is. I've had a lot of NDErs on the show. And everyone's unique. Everyone has a very unique story, but yours is one I haven't heard before. And it was very, I won't get into details because you'll get into those. But my first question is, what was your life like prior to your near death experience?
Natalie Sudman 1:37
Oh, that's a big question. I don't know. It was pretty normal. I grew up in suburban Minneapolis area and went to you know, into college and went to grad school for art. And I was working as an archaeologist before I went over to Iraq.
Alex Ferrari 2:01
So you were Indiana Jones? Essentially, you are a female Indiana Jones.
Natalie Sudman 2:06
I wish archaeology was that exciting.
Alex Ferrari 2:09
The archaeology any archaeologist I talked to they're like, Yeah, that's a lot. A lot of dust. Brush it off.
Natalie Sudman 2:16
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't do the digging, luckily, because I don't like to dig, dust and heat and cold. Yeah, I walked a lot. I did a lot of surface survey. So I got to, I used to say I get paid to just walk around and look for cool stuff, which is a pretty good job.
Alex Ferrari 2:34
Very cool. So then when you went to Iraq, let me ask you, before we get to your NDE, what was your experience like in Iraq? And what were you doing in Iraq?
Natalie Sudman 2:44
I was a civilian employee of the US Army Corps of Engineers. And I was hired to be a construction representative, which basically means kind of babysitting, construction contracts, doing the administration that's required of those and also going out to the sites and checking them over, I had, luckily for really fabulous Iraqi engineers who knew exactly what they were doing. And they were my eyes and ears in the field, largely. And they really kept track of the projects day to day in the field. And then I would go out maybe once a week and check the different projects.
Alex Ferrari 3:33
So and what was your experience? Like when you were there?
Natalie Sudman 3:35
Um, such another such a large Yeah, really big question. I like I liked being over there. It was fascinating to me. It was, you know, of course, there's all the all the horrors of war and all the stupidity of killing each other. There's, there's no way to justify that. And yet, there's also really sublime moments within that. And it was I just am fascinated by kind of microcosms of, of the world, you know, I'm interested in I don't know, there's little, you know, there's little odd, quirky little worlds within the world. Like there's a whole world of professional scrabble players. And there's I don't know, you know, those kinds of odd little corners of the world or
Alex Ferrari 4:50
Subcultures, or subcultures yeah,
Natalie Sudman 4:52
Yeah, there they are. They're joyful to me. And they really are somehow Oh, a little odd microcosms that contain all kind of everything about life and about humanity. But in a very kind of small world that is maybe more manageable and often easier to easier to find some affection and humor for, you know, sometimes the big world is overwhelming. And especially lately, a lot of the news we get is negative news, or difficult news or fearful news. And sometimes it's easier to concentrate on a smaller world and really be able to find the joy and the beauty, which is also available in the big world, but sometimes not as easy to find maybe.
Alex Ferrari 5:58
So before your before the nde were you a very spiritual or religious person.
Natalie Sudman 6:05
Um, I grew up in a church and a Presbyterian Church, and I kind of just wandered away from that in my 20s. And I've always been interested in psychic things, psychic phenomena, I remember even as a little tiny kid, like maybe four years old, sitting in church and staring at someone and thinking, scratch your ear, scratch or scratch until they would scratch their ear. So, I mean, I played around with stuff ever since I was a little I would have dreams that, and then they would later happen, things like that. I kind of got more serious about it. In my 30s, maybe 10 years before I went to Iraq.
Alex Ferrari 6:53
It's interesting. It's interesting that a mind of an archaeologist, which is a little bit more analytical, I'm assuming, you know, said that there's a different part of the brain that left side of your brain versus the right side or the more, for better lack of a better word. Whoo, whoo. It's interesting to see that even before your nd you had that kind of two sides to your world.
Natalie Sudman 7:17
Yeah, I guess. So. I think that I think that that split is artificial. I think that we all, we all use our whole awareness. I think that there are some people who may be lean more toward analytics. But even scientists and engineers require creative intelligence to do what they do to make connections and to, to analyze things that maybe seem disparate, or, you know, we all we all do better using both. Both those halves. Artificial split.
Alex Ferrari 8:07
Yeah, Einstein, I mean, used to go play violin to go figure out some complex math. So yes, there's no no question about it. So. So you're over in Iraq. It's a lovely day, you're rolling around in a truck. Tell us what happened.
Natalie Sudman 8:23
Yeah, so when we went outside camp outside the wire, we would travel in an armed convoy. So on this day, we had I had two colleagues with me, or maybe it was three colleagues with me. And only two of us could travel in one vehicle because we also had a driver and a guard and each truck, so we had a four vehicle convoy, we had a got a lead truck. And the two principal trucks with all of us Corps of Engineers, people in it, and a gun truck and back. And we had visited a few construction sites and we had it was the end of the day, we had been a long day. So I was kind of leaning my head on the door handle half asleep and the our vehicle hit and improvised explosive device on the road. And the instant that or maybe before I don't know, the instant that it exploded, I I left my body. And the book that I wrote goes into a lot of detail about my perceptions of my experiences, but it kind of in a nutshell, I've found myself standing on like a little stage and there were 1000s of beings all around me kind of like a stadium and Mmm, I was I immediately knew where I was. I knew what I was doing. I wasn't disoriented. I knew what had happened. I knew what was going on. And I just started downloading information to these beings. And we had a little back and forth. I said, I wasn't interested in going back. And they're like, Well, what if you did this? Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm easily swayed. Even in the afterlife. Yeah, you want to go to her rack? Sure. Hang up the phone. Oh, my God, what have I done? Yeah, yeah, so I agreed to go back we talked about we talked communicated. I mean, it's all kind of the communication is not even I wouldn't even call it telepathic, I would call it kind of conceptual. It's, it's instantaneous, and it's complete. Anyway, then I call it blinking. Because it's, the movement is so quick, I blinked to another environment, which was I describe it as a sort of velvety blackness, where I really didn't have a form anymore, I was kind of an organization of energy centered on my awareness. And I had that at first, there were two other beings there kind of tuning, tuning up my organization of energy. And then I had a guess, a kind of a version of a life review. And then I'd went into a depressed state. And, and I don't know how long it was in that, I mean, there's no time in that state, and eventually came out, blinked again. And went, went to what I call a healing environment. Where I could see my body in the truck, I could see all four of us in the truck. And I could also perceive that all of that scene is organizations of energy. So our bodies were organ organizations of energy, and the truck was organization of energy. And everything was very fluid. Because you know, energy is fluid. It doesn't have we perceive things as solid form, but actually, they're simply, there simply, organizations have energy, even if you break down particles, farther and farther and farther, what you end up with is just energy. Anyway, so I was playing around with different injuries. And eventually I set the injuries that I wanted. And then
Alex Ferrari 13:01
What do you mean, you set the injuries? Like you had choices?
Natalie Sudman 13:05
I chose my injuries. Oh, you chose you? Because you were like this. I'm a high was in charge.
Alex Ferrari 13:11
Yeah, like, this body is a hot mess. Let's like, you know, I'm gonna have a limp or I'm gonna have this chronic, you decided what your injuries were going to be moving forward.
Natalie Sudman 13:20
Okay, yeah, that would set me up for the things that I wanted to do, or how I wanted to experience myself or things of the world. And then I blinked back to that big gathering. And we kind of went talked about or communicated about some, some things that I had agreed to do. And I blinked again. And I was standing right next to the truck. And I was with about eight other beings. And we were all talking about what I had agreed to do what talking about it kind of on a different level, if you think about, like, the way I was talking about things with, with this huge array of 1000s was kind of like the overview or the management perspective of how to do things. And then when I'm standing next to the truck with these other eight or nine beings, we were discussing things more like from the ground level, you know, things can look very different from management level and from if you're the, the one pounding the nails, right. So this was talking about things from the level of pounding the nails. Okay. And then when we're done talking about that, I just, I blinked and I popped by it. There was an audible pop in my head and I was back in the truck. We were still rolling. The truck was still rolling down the road. My eyes were still closed, but I knew exactly what had happened. And, yeah, I knew I knew where I was. I knew what was going on. And I I had some memory of where it had been, but I immediately at least set it aside. It was like, why not hope that I can do it? That's not gonna help me right now
Alex Ferrari 15:05
We'll talk about that in a minute I got, I got injuries, I gotta take care of my gonna survive this thing. So let me so let me stop you. And let's go back a bit because I want to just kind of dig in a little bit. First the stadium, there's the new I've never heard of this, this this kind of NDE. It's similar to it sounds like a council of elders. But on an extreme level, I'm assuming you've done research on NDE. So you might have heard these kind of things where there's, I don't know if you have or have you not heard of the Council of Elders?
Natalie Sudman 15:35
Yeah, I have heard of that. And I guess. I guess I have never, you know, read a definitive, this is what people are talking about when they say council of elders. So there's no define Cultural Council of Elders, Sure.
Alex Ferrari 15:55
Yeah. It sounds at least from my interpretation, listening to it sounds like a council of elders on an extreme. I mean, 1000s of beings. Did you? When did you see anyone you recognized at all? Or was it just,
Natalie Sudman 16:07
I recognized all I mean, in a sense, I recognized all those beings.
Alex Ferrari 16:15
But from your life was it like,
Natalie Sudman 16:17
These weren't. No, these weren't like relatives or old friends, or they, they were beings functioning in a different capacity. They weren't it. I do know that some of them had had lives in bodies, but they weren't in bodies now, and it felt like maybe their time and bodies they'd already done that. Maybe they were finished with that, or, but still had an interest in this reality. I think that we put very specific boundaries on this reality, we say when you're in a body or in this reality, when you're not, when you're not in a body, you're not in this reality. But I think that the boundaries are much more diffuse than that, I think you can certainly be out of a body and still be participating in this world, interacting with this world, on on different levels, or in different ways. And I think these beings had some interest in humanity, maybe put it that way, in humanity. And in I would, I would say, also in other consciousnesses or other kinds of being that we often overlook, or don't consider to be conscious. Animals, plants, rocks, the wind, clouds,
Alex Ferrari 17:50
The earth in general, earth in general as a being. Alright, so So it's fascinating to me. So then you after that, you blink and then your life review. There was like a sort of life review. What can you can you dive in a little bit of what that was, like it just love to hear your perspective of what that life review was? Did you feel both sides of the story of what you were watching, like, explain exactly what that life review was like?
Natalie Sudman 18:17
Yeah, mine was different from the some others that I've read, I I haven't researched and the ease I don't spend a lot of time listening or reading and the ease but what I was essentially doing was the way I describe it, I think, in my book is kind of a leisurely stroll through my life. I, I think that it's certainly I certainly could have maybe did and don't, don't remember this part of it. But what I recall of it is merging with certain scenes, but not in the in a way of judging myself or of, of, of becoming aware of when I had hurt people are becoming aware of when I done something kind for person. What I was really focusing my attention upon was where things had, let's see effects had been a surprise to me. So we live in a cause and effect. Reality right? And you set something in motion a lot of times you think that it's going to do this or do that or lead to this or lead to that. And it was very, very, I was very, very interested in the places where they didn't lead to the things that I thought they would lead to. And I liked that surprise. I liked that. That play that creative place where I could learn something about myself, others the nature of reality, or the nature of consciousness. I was also interested in the places where I had fun and fun, you know, we think, oh, you know, Margarita on the beach. But sometimes really hard work is fun. Sometimes there's a real profound satisfaction and sense of joy in, in the, not only in the accomplishment of something, but in the doing of something. And I was really interested in those parts of my life.
Alex Ferrari 20:50
Sounds it's so far, nothing seems very dramatic at all. As far as the other side is concerned.
Natalie Sudman 20:56
There was nothing traumatic. Absolutely beautiful.
Alex Ferrari 21:01
Wonderful on the other side, do you have a feeling of love when you were there?
Natalie Sudman 21:08
Well, the way I talk about that is that that feeling of love is so natural, and so pervasive that it's really only noticeable when you don't have it. So when I think about when I return myself to these places, which I can still do, I can return there. And and I can put my attention on what, you know, what, what does that mean? What does that feel like? Is there love there? It's, of course, it's there. It can't not be there. That's the very essence of everything is here, too. We simply don't acknowledge it, or we don't pay attention to it, or we aren't, we are opening ourselves to it. Or, you know, as soon as you believe that we're separate from it, you're going to have the experience of being separate from it. But what if you said to yourself, Wait a minute, this is this is the very essence of me, not love as an emotion. But love as a state of being love as a state of being is the very essence of everything that exists. So as soon as you believe that and allow for it, you're going to start to experience it even here. You don't have to go somewhere else to experience that.
Alex Ferrari 22:29
So very much like air here, because if when you're breathing, and you don't really think too much about it, it's just there. But the second it's not there, you figure it out pretty quick, then you need it. So is that a good analogy? Sure. That makes sense. All right. So so after, after the life review, you blinked back to the stadium area from I was taken.
Natalie Sudman 22:51
You know, I went to the healing healing environment. Okay, so once in a while since I've written my book, and it's been a while since I think about I don't think about this in, in process or in this happened in this happened, and this happened. Right. I think about it as this happened.
Alex Ferrari 23:17
It's a giant thing. So yeah, I'm trying to,
Natalie Sudman 23:20
You know, yeah, in a way I, you kind of have to, you come back into a body and you have to organize it in, in linear time.
Alex Ferrari 23:30
Right! There was no time, I'm assuming, so it's not like, so this happened that I opened the door, this happened,
Natalie Sudman 23:36
Right! Yeah. I'm gonna say from the Yeah, so I'm gonna say from the deep rest environment when I blink to the healing environment, which is where I could see the it's like I was had like a 45 degree angle down, I was hovering above the whole desert scene, with the blown up truck, and essence, inside the truck. And I was kind of doing the equivalent of waving a hand and I would set different injuries in my body. And then I would see an in one instant I would see my whole life as it would happen if I had that injury. So I would wave my hand and I make the hole in my head bigger and give myself some brain damage and then see a flash of how the rest of my life would go. I was with two other beings. And we thought from that perspective, that this was hilarious. We just thought this was so funny. I mean, we would we chop off my arm and then watch me my right arm and then watch me try to figure out how to write and do everything the rest of my life with my left hand and oh my god, we were laughing so hard. It was really really funny because from that perspective, it's understood that in essence, we're, we're playing roles. And, and, and from our perspective, we put everything in the context of one lifetime, birth growth, maturity, age death. And, and in that context, have having to do without an arm for 40 years. Sounds like a long time, and could be really difficult. But from that perspective, from the out of body perspective, my context was much, much bigger. So that 40 years is like 24 years, let's see what happens. Let's do it. You know, in the same way that an actor might say, Oh, my god, yeah, let's play that villain. When will I ever get another chance to play a villain? You know, or? Oh, yes, let me play that. Let me play that person who's in a wheelchair. Let me see what that's like what that feels like.
Alex Ferrari 26:07
So, it sounds like and I use this analogy all the time. It's the video game analogy, where you're playing a player and you're like, you go through a level, which is life. And you're like, you know what, this time, let's do it without the gun that I normally have. And let's go down this path that I never go down to see what happens. But you're doing is like, okay, let's play this game, but I'm not gonna have any weapons at all, I'm gonna have to do everything at the end. Or I'm going to, it's a different experience every time you're looking at it, it sounds fairly hilarious. And then the video was in the video game I in the video game analogy, you remember playing video games that you could just like, do silly stuff to like, let's see what happens if we go through this level, upside down or like
Natalie Sudman 26:46
Because you're not really hurting yourself. No, because you are not that you're bigger than that.
Alex Ferrari 26:54
You are the awareness that is watching this, this character and participating and partying and participating through this, this this process as well. But it's the equivalent of me getting upset that Mario in Super Mario Brothers is oh, we chopped off a leg. Let's see how he could jump now and be the next level without that leg. So that so that's, that's amazing. What I find interesting about because it's the first time I've ever heard this, and any conversations I've had a near death experience. It almost sounds like and you've I'm assuming you've heard of the soul blueprint. While we come down here to do in a mini way. It sounds like you are creating your your your blueprint for your life, at this point actively and I've never heard of anyone having that opportunity in in a near death experience or out of body experience. It's a very unique perspective that you're like, nope, let's chop off the arm here. No, that's not gonna work. Let's do that. And so what were the injuries you chose, by the way if you don't want me asking.
Natalie Sudman 27:55
So I had my right heel was broken, and a chunk of sharp shrapnel was in there. Both of the bones in my forearm were shattered and the wrist, some of the wrist bones were broken. All the bones on the right side of my face were broken. I had a skull fracture. It's kind of redundant. But then I had a hole was blown into my skull here. And there was shrapnel in the frontal sinus there. There was shrapnel in both eyes, I think. I think they took a little bit out of that eye. A lot of damage to my right eye. The retina eventually came detached. It was and it was tattered. They did reattach it. But I don't these two eyes don't line up because this whole created some issues with the muscles and nerves.
Alex Ferrari 28:52
So let me ask you this, then, what did you hope to learn in this life by the injuries you chose?
Natalie Sudman 28:59
I don't remember that. You don't remember that. But you know, I remember he. I do remember the deal, because I remember choosing them. You do remember choosing them. I remember choosing them and being satisfied with that, like, oh yeah, this would be great. Who you set them.
Alex Ferrari 29:17
I love this. I love the way you look at this. This is going to be fantastic. Let's go.
Natalie Sudman 29:21
Let's do it. Yeah. And so I think that, that knowing that I chose them. I mean, I think I have that knowingness on a deep level. I don't sit and go I can't believe I chose this. Why did I choose this? You know, a lot of our suffering comes from from resisting what is and, you know, as soon as we say why did this happen to me or why am I experiencing this or how do I get out of this or you fearing what this might imply, then then we begin to suffer. But it's possible to say, well, here I am, How do I best handle this. And that doesn't mean you're going to be happy, necessarily, it doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be easy. Believe me, it wasn't easy recovering. But if you can carry a little bit of sense of humor, and if you can remember that, no matter what you experience, value can be found in it, then I think you can give yourself a little bit different experience a little bit less difficult experience.
Alex Ferrari 30:52
And then after the, the that area, the healing area, you went back again, sorry, for the timeline. Sorry, the back to the gathering into the gathering of the state. And it was kind of like, like, Alright, everyone, we're all set, we're all doing this, this is the way we're go. It was basically kind of a wrap up, before it before you head back down to the game. Or to set or to set as a as a new character, you've set up for yourself. Yeah. And you're down on stage with these other two beings like okay, here, the nails were pounding the nails here. So
Natalie Sudman 31:28
Yeah, this was like eight or nine other beings who I think I mean, I feel like I work with them a lot. But yeah, we were just talking about, like, I was saying, you know, give me some reminders. So I don't, you know, it's not easy being back in a body and remembering what you're doing.
Alex Ferrari 31:47
So just throw me a couple of bones here, a couple of cheat codes, if you will, along the way. So we know what's going.
Natalie Sudman 31:53
Right. And then, you know, they were they were in my memory. I can't remember specifics. But I remember them kind of describing and explaining certain things again, and saying, you know, watch out for this. And here's that things in your life. You mean? Yeah. I don't remember the specifics. And I guess I don't, I haven't really tried to, I think it what matters here too. Anyway, probably even if I could remember. I wouldn't tell people because it's mine. And everybody else has theirs. And I think it's very easy to listen to other people's stories and go, Well, I wish I had that. Or, well, I'm doing something more important than that. Or, well, I'm not doing anything as important as that. When none of those things are true. We're all doing our own thing. And everything. We're all doing something valuable to ourselves and to humanity, whether we realize it or not. And there isn't anyone doing something more important. Yeah, it may look like Carolyn Mace is doing way more than he, you know, she's out there, healing people and training people. And she's out there every day. And that's great. That's what she's here to do. It doesn't mean that you're here to do that. You know, we're all here to do do different things.
Alex Ferrari 33:19
It's like again, if I may use the Mario brothers analogy, you're looking at Luigi as like a leech. Isn't that nearly as important as Mario and then look at that, look at that mushroom who tried to hurt Mario, he's obviously not that important. But he was there for a specific purpose. To give a challenge to Mario to jump over it. Like everyone has it. The big I mean, I'm using Mario something. Yeah, everyone has a point to be here. And it might not look like you know, an exciting scenario because you look at big movie stars. You look at Mother Teresa, you look at the Dalai Lama, you look at all these other people doing amazing things. You're like, oh, but I'm, I'm just a mushroom.
Natalie Sudman 33:57
You're a mushroom
Alex Ferrari 33:58
No, you're in this go around. You're the mushroom. Yeah, and the next round, you might be a Mario. Right? It all depends on what you want to do and how you want to evolve and in this life and experience in this life, and it's just I love your sense of humor about the whole thing. I'd love your, your perspective on your your whole thing because, at least at this point of the story, it seems very freewheeling like yeah, chop off an artist's. It all sounds cool. It's awesome. So you're back in your body. You're in a hospital, you're going through all this thing. At this point, you still remember parts of this right? So are you dealing with the distress and the trauma of what happened to you in a better way? Or did you have that information that can help you along this path? Because um, you still have to play this game. You still have to play this character and and despite what you just told me, as far as your injuries are concerned, that's not for the faint of heart. So how did you deal with that trauma and did this experience or the memory of that help you?
Natalie Sudman 35:01
Yeah, I still didn't really remember. I mean, I was they kept me pretty drugged up for a month and then I was busy with other stuff, I didn't really kind of go back into that moment for a long time. But I had a different perspective, just because of it. So even in the truck when I, when I opened my eyes, and the truck stop rolling, and I thought, well, I better, you know, I better get to it. And I kind of did what I could to look, you know, tried to get a gun out and didn't hear anything. I didn't hear any, any gunfire or anything. So I thought, I won't mess with that, because I couldn't get it out from a guy's legs jammed against it. And I made sure no one was bleeding out. And then I sat back and waited for the others to come and help us and looking out the window i I couldn't see out of this high. And I thought, Oh, dang it. That's my good eye. But then I got really excited. I thought, Oh, I wonder if I can see other worlds more clearly, if I can't see out of this eye. And I was really excited, like, truly honestly excited. And that really that's that kind of experience is possible when we when we don't fear what might be right. You know, there was no fear in that moment. I didn't think oh, how am I going to drive? Or how I'm going to read or or I'm an artist, how am I going to do art? I didn't, I didn't worry about things. I just thought, Oh, I haven't done this before in this lifetime. I wonder what this will be like, and I was truly excited about it.
Alex Ferrari 36:51
Was that maybe a residual of where you just come from? I think a little bit you were still you were still you drank that Kool Aid and the cooling
Natalie Sudman 36:59
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so they they flew us to, they flew me out to well to Bilad, which is the surgery center in Iraq and then to launch the Germany and then to Walter Reed Army Medical Facility. So I spent then about a month at Walter in Walter Reed as an inpatient. And a lot of what I remember, I mean, it was very drugged up. So I'm sure there's, I do remember days when the pain was just so bad. I couldn't, I couldn't think straight I couldn't even move. But I also remember a lot of times, just finding things very funny. Just finding it really hilarious that, that I couldn't even get out of bed and finding it hilarious that people kept walking in my room and just giving me gifts because it was right before Christmas, and lots and lots of really sweet, wonderful people go to Walter Reed and take gifts and choked up gifts to people who have been injured. Okay, so anyway. Yeah. I say that I never laughed so hard is when I was in Walter Reed. They were just really great doctors and people who were nurses who were willing to laugh at me about what could have been considered traumatic or really dire. You know? So you were blessed. It sounds nuts. But
Alex Ferrari 38:55
You were blessed with that, because there's other experiences that are not that
Natalie Sudman 38:59
No exactly, you know, if I had been terrified of what my life would be like, after I got out, I would have had a very different experience. And, you know, I was thinking, I am so lucky. I'm so lucky. I still I can see, you know, whereas it would be very easy to just concentrate on on the eye I could see out of
Alex Ferrari 39:27
Isn't that really interesting? And this is a really great learning moment for people listening is that what happened to you is what it is, regardless, it doesn't have a good or bad energy. It's a perspective, right? It is the energy of what you focus on. So if you want, I love your ideas, like you could either focus like, Oh man, I could still see or, oh my god, I can't see out of the other eye. Those two experiences are completely different. Yes. And how you decide and it's your choice. is how you decide to move forward with what is? Yeah, it's you can't. Again, this is what you were saying with suffering, you suffer because you're trying to control or trying to avoid what it what right as how it is, what is period, you know, a tree falls in a forest on your leg? It's not, there's nothing negative or positive about that. It just happened. Your perspective is you'd be like, damn, I'd like that leg. How is it? How am I going to get out of this situation? But the incident itself has no charge to it, if you will. It's just, it's part of the charge too. It's part of the simulation, if you will, part of the game that we're in, things happen the way they're supposed to happen. In many ways. I find this so fast. I mean, your story is so so wonderful and fascinating. I have to ask you now, so you get out. You get out, you rehabilitate. You're back in the world. At what point? Do you decide to go public? With this story? I'm assuming you, at a certain point decided to like this coming out of the closet, the near death closet, this is what happened. When did you decide to do this? And how were you received by just people around you, your family, your friends, colleagues.
Natalie Sudman 41:19
So first, I decided to write it all down for myself. Just thought, Oh, I just want to I just want to record for myself, what happened? And so I wrote it. And then I thought, Well, it turned out better than I thought. So maybe I'll send it out to some agents and publishers. And I was really nervous about that. Because yeah, I thought, yeah, you know, what are people gonna think? And it took about 10 months before I got a positive response from Ozark publishing. And then I thought, Okay, this will be scary. But I have to go ahead with it. Might as well just go ahead with it. And what I found is that most people, people who are interested friends and family who are interested in this kind of thing, were interested in the book. And people who have no interest in this kind of thing, simply ignored it, and pretended it didn't exist. There was one friend, I think I lost one friend over it. That's okay. That's it. So it was way less scary. You know, here's my imagination, creating the fear, creating the suffering, when the reality was just fine. No problem at all.
Alex Ferrari 43:01
Now, you, you've mentioned in other interviews, and I'd love to hear your, if you could tell the audience this, we've kind of touched upon this energy, and how energy is organized. Can you talk a little bit about how energy is organized from your perspective?
Natalie Sudman 43:17
Um, yeah, I guess. Energy is, energy is neutral. Until we think you until we bring our thoughts and our imagination to it. And when we do that, it begins to take on form. And so the picture that I'm being given right now is, if you imagine somebody and somebody originally thinks of this reality, and starts to imagine it, and imagine that enough to kind of build a lot of build a lot of the structure of this reality, it's still very fluid. It still isn't as solid as we might think of it now. But then they show it to somebody else. And that person brings their attention to it. And now there's now there's two people really shaping this reality with their thoughts. And pretty soon there's 10 people and then 100 people and 1000s of people and, and everybody is is agreeing to certain things. They're agreeing that this is a cause and effect. Reality. They're agreeing to the shape of the Earth. They're agreeing that it's a creative reality. So it's always shifting and changing a little bit, and that they're things are moving in this way. that way and populating it with things and, and the more attention is placed. Communal attention is placed on this, on this thought, the more the more stable that organization of energy becomes, if that makes sense,
Alex Ferrari 45:27
Right. So everyone says that your wall behind you or the shelf behind you is we've all agreed that that's a shelf,
Natalie Sudman 45:34
We've all agreed that it's a shelf, and that you can't put your hand through it, you can set things on top of it, and it's not going to they're not going to the books aren't going to fall right through it. And the wall is going to block out the wind, we've all agreed to that. And there's ways to receive the world, there, it's possible to shift your perspective, shift your awareness to another, say another frequency, or Yeah, to another frequency or up an octave or two. And to perceive this reality, in a very different way to kind of see the organization that you know, you can look at a lamp and you can see that the lamp as we've been taught to see it or you can look at the lamp and see it as an organization of energy and understand that the metal, you can you can know that know the metal in its other states, at the same time that you know, the metal in this state. And you can know the sort of the structure without the metal with or without the metal.
Alex Ferrari 46:53
No, it makes no you've actually made a lot of sense, at least to me, you're making a lot of sense that because you know from what I've studied in yogic philosophies, and what Yogi's have been able to do is, you know, when they get to a certain level, they are able to go to that next level octave. And they perceive things like you know, being at two places at the same time, they will pass through walls, do things that people would look at, like, you're insane. But these are spiritual masters that we're talking about an ancient texts, again, and again, these kinds of stories pop up. And this starts to make sense. And this is one of my favorite topics is when science and spirituality combined, which is now quantum physics and, and all this kind of stuff and starts getting really exciting. With simulation theory and things like that, that you're like, oh, so we are in the matrix, in many ways, and you're looking above what the construct is, which is what that main character is able to do. He's looked at and he goes, Oh, I can see the code behind what is happening. So he could start manipulating the environment. So we're talking, we're talking about that, but only beings or souls at a higher level are able to do those things. And throughout history at least.
Natalie Sudman 48:02
Well, I think that there are examples of people who do some of those things. Without having the whole profound spiritual awareness. I think there are
Alex Ferrari 48:18
Athletes, athletes could do things I've seen, like they're in the flow. I've heard of those things like that. Yeah.
Natalie Sudman 48:24
Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's lots of people who have had experiences with family members who have crossed over appearing before them, or, you know, those are the same kinds of things. I think that that we all are, most people have experiences of, of one kind or another. I think that a lot of times the Western world, the Western culture concentrates on those tricks, you know, learning to be psychic, or learning to move something with your mind or things like that. And, and there's, there's value to that, I think that the yogic tradition is much more focused on on the wisdom and shifting the very base perspective. And then those tricks just start to happen, what I call tricks, right? Things just start to happen that way. So you can come at it from different angles. But I don't think it's you know, I don't think those things are unattainable, I think agreed. We have experiences of them already.
Alex Ferrari 49:44
Yeah, it's just different different levels of the code being shown if you will, just different perspectives of it. Did you have any after effects of the near death experience like did you come back with different awarenesses different for lack have a better word abilities of things that you didn't have prior to that, like, I don't know anything.
Natalie Sudman 50:07
Well, different. Oh, awarenesses as far as not really getting depressed anymore. And, you know, having a sense of humor about being banged up. I, I had done a few psychic readings for friends before this happened. But afterward, I had a lot more confidence in those readings, and the information seemed a lot clearer. So. So that was a change. And I do do readings now, for people professionally, so that that was a change. I'm not I'm not sure. You know, otherwise, I think. I think the that psychic stuff, a lot of people seem to think that that's more important or more notable, or maybe it's just more fun to think about, then the day to day shift in perspective. But I think that the day to day shift in perspective, it's it's much more important, and much more influential in my life, you know, just having that perspective of this is, so I'll deal with this as it is, instead of going, why, why why, why, why why I just say it is, and probably the way to find out why is to walk through it. So how do I best handle this? So I asked myself different questions than I did before. My experience, and I think that has made the biggest difference to me, and maybe the people around me, maybe I'm a lot easier to be around. Who knows
Alex Ferrari 52:07
Right because you're a little, you're a little easier. You're easygoing?
Natalie Sudman 52:12
Yeah, not really. No, but very easy, easy to be around, honestly. But it may, I think it may be a little easier.
Alex Ferrari 52:24
You're at a 10, you're now at a seven. Not at a two, but you're at a seven. It took the edge off, if you will. And I think what you're saying is so important because people do get caught up in the either psychic phenomenon, or mediums or channels or other things that people might bring back from a near death experience. But that perspective change is massive, because it's every second of every day of your life is affected by were these other, either gifts or abilities that come and go. And they're not every moment, you know, thinking about those things every moment every day. And if we can shift our perspective, life becomes more enjoyable, or at least easier to deal with. And you don't sweat the small stuff as much. I imagine. You know, we're the best reality show for the other side ever. Like?
Natalie Sudman 53:24
Yeah, I'm sure we amuse them to no end.
Alex Ferrari 53:28
I mean, we are the Netflix we are Netflix for the other side. There's no question. What's going on now? Oh, okay. She just got oh, this is gonna be a good story. She got blown up in this thing. And the Iraq. Let's see where this goes. Yeah, that'd be
Natalie Sudman 53:40
A good one. This will be a good one. Yeah, yeah. And I honestly, I think that that shift in my day to day perspective, is what allows me to do better readings. I think that when we are in fear and resistance, we're in our own way. And if we can release that fear and let go of that resistance, and trust that's that a smarter part of us a higher part of S. Is is going to take care of us, then it really frees up a lot of energy to do other things that are more fun, and more creative or Yeah,
Alex Ferrari 54:24
Agreed. 110%. And I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?
Natalie Sudman 54:35
I think for me, it's just living an honest life. Be honest with yourself. And when you're honest with yourself, you're, you're honest with everything around you. I think there's real integrity and that and if, if we were all doing this, we'd be in a pretty different place, I think. Agreed.
Alex Ferrari 54:59
How do you define God?
Natalie Sudman 55:02
God is everything, everything that exists
Alex Ferrari 55:08
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Natalie Sudman 55:13
I think the ultimate purpose of life is to remember who we really are. I think we've done this experiment of what what if we forget that we are all one? What if we forget that we are all God? What if we separate ourselves? What will our experience be? And I think we've taken that about as far as it can go without destroying ourselves and and we're walking ourselves home now. I think we're, we're remembering and invited to remember that there is no separateness that we we're all one, we're all God. We're all related. We all. We can all take care of each other.
Alex Ferrari 55:59
And where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?
Natalie Sudman 56:04
I have a website NSudman NSudman.com. And that has my art, and I think it has still has a link to the book. And I have a blog site trace of elements.com, where I post links to all the interviews I've done. So your link will go up on there, too. And I have a Facebook author page Natalie segment. So that's fine. All those things and hope to see you around.
Alex Ferrari 56:40
And do you have any parting messages for our audience?
Natalie Sudman 56:44
Be good to yourself.
Alex Ferrari 56:46
Natalie, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure and so much fun talking to you. I've never thought about near death as it's so much fun and hilarious. So I appreciate you bringing humor to this subject matter and hopefully some profound insights as well. So I appreciate you and what you're doing for the world. So thank you my dear.
Natalie Sudman 57:06
Thanks, Alex. Thanks for doing your work too.
Alex Ferrari 57:10
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Links and Resources
- Natalie Sudman – Official Site
- Book: Application of Impossible Things: A Near Death Experience in Iraq
- Natalie Sudman Blog’s
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