Inside the Studio: Atlantis & Aztec: The Lost City of El Dorado with Luke Caverns

Luke Caverns 0:00
They arrived at so many cities that they describe as being totally gold plated cities. I mean, some of these places were so wealthy that kings had gauntlets like like Thanos gauntlet all the way down to the elbow, and actual functioning fingers plated with gold. If it's something that can soften stone, it is also going to remove your hand.

Alex Ferrari 0:22
I never thought about that, but you're right.

Luke Caverns 0:25
There, there are, there are other Machu Picchu out there that haven't been discovered. Essentially, Hades is grabbing him and pulling him into the underworld while he's also looking up and being pulled down.

Alex Ferrari 0:36
I like to welcome back to the show returning champion, Luke Caverns,

Luke Caverns 0:49
Yeah man! Hey, thanks for flying me out again.

Alex Ferrari 0:53
I appreciate that, man. I appreciate it. Our last conversation,

Luke Caverns 0:57
I didn't change my clothes,

Alex Ferrari 0:58
Neither, neither did I, sir, neither did I. But no, our last conversation, man, we were talking. We went deep down the rabbit hole of ancient Egypt, great pyramids, technologies that were used back then, theories, all this kind of stuff. But in today's conversation, what I really wanted to get into is something that I really have never delved I mean, we've talked about it on the show before, about Mayan Aztec, Aztec Inca, Mesoamerica, ancient civilizations. But I want to get into a little bit more of the mysteries. Yeah, of and I know that is one of your sweet spots. Is that correct?

Luke Caverns 1:36
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's, I would say I spend about 50% of my time studying ancient cultures of Mesoamerica and South America. So you know, that would include the, I guess, let's say, you know, the big few are the Maya and the Olmecs, a little bit of the Aztecs, but the Aztecs come later on. The Aztecs really don't reach their height until right before the Spanish arrive in Mexico. I also study cultures of South America, which would be Inca, ancient Tiwanaku cultures. And then, and then the, I guess the easiest way to say, is the cultures of El Dorado, all of your goldsmithing cultures that were creating these cities that the Spanish were looking for, you know, these cities of gold. And so, yeah, I spend about 50% of my time studying these cultures in the Americas, and then the other 50% of the time studying what we talked about last time, which is, you know, Greco, Roman, Egyptian culture.

Alex Ferrari 2:31
That's amazing. You have a cool job.

Luke Caverns 2:34
I'm trying to, I'm trying to make a job out of it.

Alex Ferrari 2:38
You got a very cool job, man. All right, so let's dive into first before we get into El Dorado and the lost city and all that stuff. What is the oldest recorded culture in Mesoamerica? I'm my understanding is the Olmecs. Is that correct?

Luke Caverns 2:55
Yes, yeah, yeah. So,

Alex Ferrari 2:57
Because they're fairly mysterious, they don't there's not a lot of information about them, or am I wrong?

Luke Caverns 3:01
There's, there is not a actually, okay, so the Olmecs, we think end. It's a little bit hazy to when their culture ends. And the one thing you have to think about is is, well, I'll say this, we think that the Olmec culture ends somewhere between 400 BC and 300 AD. The problem is that we don't have any recorded contact or any oral or written history from the later culture, which is the Maya, that they don't come from the Olmecs, but the Maya start rising into their into the height of their society at around the time the Olmecs end, and there's almost not really any continuation of Olmec society. So we have nobody telling us who the Olmecs were. In the same way that the Greeks tell us who the Egyptians were. We have nobody, no Aztecs, no Maya people, telling us anything about the Olmecs. We don't know what the Olmecs called themselves. We don't know what they believed. We don't know what their religion was. We don't know we don't understand their iconography. We don't know where they got the ability to quarry, transport, lift and move these mega, these huge, megalithic heads. And there's more than just the heads, but we'll get into that we know almost nothing about them, because when their civilization ends, essentially we are cut off from knowing anything about them. And so they're they are literally a lost civilization. We don't even know their name.

Alex Ferrari 4:28
You don't even know how old they were.

Luke Caverns 4:30
So when they, when they excavate and carbon date bones that they find at some Olmec cities, they think that the first major Olmec city was a site called San Lorenzo. San Lorenzo in Veracruz, Mexico, is one of the, I guess, what is there now, seven fertile crescents of the ancient world. It's one of the seven places in the world that civilization began on its own. You know, it started there, and, quote, unquote, on its own, yeah. So, you know, I think that the. There's, I don't know if I can call them all the top of my head, but you have, yeah, you have Egypt, you have Mesopotamia, you have India, China, you have China, you have turkey, you have Peru, and you have San Lorenzo, where they where the Olmecs were at? There are others, I'm sure, but those are the big seven.

Alex Ferrari 5:16
How about Africa?

Luke Caverns 5:17
That would be Egypt. Egypt. Okay, so, yeah, so Egypt. Egypt is the first recognized like civilization. You know what is a civilization? But that's what, that's what they call it the Fertile Crescent of major civilization, major cities being built. So, yeah, San Lorenzo is one of these. And I think it's, I think it's the most recent of the seven Fertile Crescent. So they put the they put the rise of San Lorenzo at about 1600 BC, and which is 3600 years ago, which is more recent than, quite considerably more recent than, than any of the others. I mean Egypt, India. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean India is like 4000 5000 BC.

Alex Ferrari 6:00
And that's an estimate, because they say the Vedic text could go back nine to 10,000 years.

Luke Caverns 6:04
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So they they think that the Olmecs are around 1600 BC, is when it begins, and that it, for whatever reason, falls off at around 400 BC. But Olmec studies are so they're so hazy, and you can't really get any defined dates, no matter how hard you look. There's a monument called monument 19, and it's housed in the Mexico Museum of Anthropology. And it's probably it's about this big, maybe two and two or three feet tall, two or three feet wide, and it depicts an Olmec man being carried in this flying serpent with a rattlesnake tail, with this dragon looking head. And the Olmec man is riding inside or being carried by this serpent while he's holding one of those handbags that you see in other cultures in the world. And if you try to find, if you try to find a concrete date for that, they'll say, Well, this was probably carved between 1200 400 BC,

Alex Ferrari 7:06
And that's being pulled right out there, there the buttocks.

Luke Caverns 7:09
All they can do is look at the city that it was found, which that site is levento. So you have three main Olmec cities. You have you have San Lorenzo tresipotes and La Venta, or maybe at San Lorenzo la venta, and then trace the potas. And they find it at La Venta. But you can't carbon date stone, so all they can do is look around at the little biological material found in the area. And a lot of bones don't even survive in the in the acidic soil there. So, you know, you bury somebody 3000 years later, not even bone is left. Is just sand in that specific soil. But in certain conditions, they're able to find people that are buried there. They carbon date the bones. And some people are 1200 BC. Some people were 400 BC. So they're like, Oh, well, this monument, I guess it comes from somewhere in these two time periods,

Alex Ferrari 7:58
Or past, or could be older.

Luke Caverns 8:01
It could be it could be older. There's no kind of, what we were saying, kind of, what I was saying about Egypt is, is, when you push those dates back, Well, the thing is, limestone is tender. It can be eroded. You know, it's, it's easy to erode limestone, as compared to basalt. Basalt can be 9000 years old and get rained on every day and look the same. So we have no idea how old the Olmecs are. We don't even know their name. We know nothing about them. So

Alex Ferrari 8:30
They are the mystery of Mesoamerica, one of the big, big mysteries, yeah, yeah. I

Luke Caverns 8:34
mean, they're, they're, they're, like, the elephant in the room for Mesoamerica. You know, there are other things there. There's a lot of strange things in the Maya and the Aztec world, but the Olmecs, you see so many mysteries and coral you see a lot of the same mysteries in the Olmec world that you do in the Egyptian world. Gosh, dude. Olmec headdresses also have snakes coming off the top of them. They Olmec headdresses also have, so the Egyptian head, the Egyptian hedge it, which you have, you have the white crown and the red crown of ancient Egypt. And there's one that's, it's angled up in the back. In the front, the forehead kind of curls back against it, and then you'll have a serpent coming out of it. That exact headdress is depicted on Olmec monuments. The exact same thing. What I will say is that the Olmecs and Egyptians probably did exist at the same time. You can't prove that they knew about each other, but it's just interesting that their headdresses look exactly the same, and they transported similar sized, 50 ton monuments down rivers, in a way that hasn't been explained before. We haven't been able to prove that these Egyptian river rafts were able to carry these, you know, 50 ton Aswan granite blocks up and down the Nile River in much in the same way we haven't been able to prove that Olmec balso River rafts are able to carry 50 ton Olmec head. It's up and down the quetzalcoats rivers from the tushla Mountains, which is 100 kilometers away.

Alex Ferrari 10:05
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And how did they even carve these?

Luke Caverns 11:03
We really don't have much archeological evidence of their tools. They think that they were using, that they were using hand chipping blocks. So it's kind of like a hand ax. You have a smooth side, and you have a more angled side. And you would, you would hit against the block again with this and chip it away. And,

Alex Ferrari 11:21
But, but, but, those things from the Olmec heads that I've seen, it's fairly smooth. They're very smooth and there, but that's a hard rock as well, correct?

Luke Caverns 11:29
Yeah, basalt. I don't know where it is on the Mohs scale, but it isn't that far behind granite.

Alex Ferrari 11:35
It's, it's a solid piece of, you know, it's not what limestone is hard too, righ or no?

Luke Caverns 11:39
Limestone is not that hard. I'm not sure. I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of pulling this out of my ass, but I think limestone is like a four, and granite is like a 9 8 9,

Alex Ferrari 11:50
So Basalt is not too far behind

Luke Caverns 11:52
Basalt is not that far behind granite. Yeah, right. So it's a hard, it's like twice as hard as limestone,

Alex Ferrari 11:54
So, in other words, a couple pieces of copper tools are not gonna knock this down.

Luke Caverns 12:02
Yeah, and I don't think it wasn't copper. I think that they attribute the Olmecs to Flint.

Alex Ferrari 12:07
Oh, the Flint. Well, the Flint is pretty powerful, yeah.

Luke Caverns 12:11
Well, it can be, but

Alex Ferrari 12:12
It can be, but it's still not, not to get the kind of accuracy

Luke Caverns 12:16
Oh, man, these guys, there's some, there's some Olmec monuments that are the cuts are. The cuts are amazing.

Alex Ferrari 12:23
I know in the Egyptian some of the Egyptian statues that were created, the precision of one side of the face to the other side is a mirror of each other.

Luke Caverns 12:35
Yeah, yeah, the symmetry is.

Alex Ferrari 12:36
The symmetry is impossible to do by hand. It's literally impossible. It had to be some other sort of technology to be able to create that is the Olmec head, similar or not?

Luke Caverns 12:46
No, no, they're not very similar. I mean, they can be, they can be proportionate the Olmec heads. So Egyptian statues, they are. They're idealist. It's idealistic artwork. So the Egyptian statues do not actually look like the Egyptian people looked. It's an art style that they perfected. And so, you know, it'd be like if I drew a character, a character of you in much in the same way I drew of everybody else. Like, have you ever gone to the hotels or like the Gaylord, and they have an artist there who will draw you in the same style they've drawn everyone else this picture. It's like a Pixar.

Alex Ferrari 13:24
Let's say everyone's drawn like Pixar, sir.

Luke Caverns 13:26
Sure. That's what the Egyptians were doing. It's their Pixar. It's this idealistic version of what they look like. But they they also have, the Egyptians sometimes have artwork, and we know that's we know that's true because the Egyptians also have our artwork. Sometimes that's not idealistic, and it shows you literally, exactly what the person looked like, and it's not as flattering as the traditional stoic Egyptian statues. You know.

Alex Ferrari 13:48
How do you explain the symmetry, though?

Luke Caverns 13:50
Yeah, same mystery, same mystery as the vases, same mystery as as the the pyramids, you know? I mean, it's just,

Alex Ferrari 13:57
There's a there's another mystery, but so, but even the the Olmec heads, there might not be the precision, but the qua just, I mean,

Luke Caverns 14:04
Yeah, so the Olmec, the Olmec heads, what I was getting at here is there they are not idealistic, so they're not going to be symmetrical. It is an exact portrait of what that person looked like. So that's what they look like. Yes, yeah, there. I've met people in in Veracruz, because, you know, there's, there's the argument all the time that people think that the Olmec heads may represent African looking people, because they've got, they've got the big lips and they've got the wide noses, like,

Alex Ferrari 14:30
Oh no, but no, some native, I mean, Mexicans, yeah, and South Americans absolutely look indigenous, yeah? Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Luke Caverns 14:39
I think people in North America, you know? Well, it's funny, and it's only people in North America that theorize that in the United States, but, you know, they say that because they haven't traveled around Mexico. When you travel around Mexico, people that live in Mexico City look much different than people who live in the Yucatan, like America, and then in the middle, I knocked on the door of an Olmec Museum. A guy who opens up the door. He was an Olmec. It was clear as day. He was, like, six feet tall, big, big face with big, wide nose and big lips and big eyes. And I was like, Yep, okay, they live. I'm in the right place. Yeah, I'm in, definitely in the right place. And I walk and I see a stone head that looks just like him. And so how many are there? Are these stone heads? There are 17 known basalt heads. However, when I was in Veracruz a couple months ago, Dr Barnhart and I, we walked into this museum. It's not even a museum, dude. It's a shed with a metal roof on top, just just to protect the the artifacts from getting rained on more. There were three more Olmec heads there that were limestone, and they were twice as big as any of the other Olmec heads, but the limestone, but the limestone had eroded away because they've been sitting in the rain for 3000 years. So it was like really hard to make out the features. So we'd have to take photos of it and turn the contrast all the way up, or shine lights on the heads from certain angles to try to get the image to pop off because it was just gone. But with basalt, it was perfect. You know, you can, you can see all the features of the people, dude, the basalt heads are so amazing that they even carve the pupils and the corneas into the eyes.

Alex Ferrari 16:13
I saw that. I've seen those. Yeah, crazy. And you're not doing that with a

Luke Caverns 16:19
I don't see how I don't see how you are.

Alex Ferrari 16:21
I mean, because it's a, it's an amount of precision. That's look. I mean, I was, I was, I saw the David in person, and the precision in the artistry in the David in that's grant, that's not great. That's marble. Marble, yeah, marble is a fairly soft, yeah, yeah.

Luke Caverns 16:38
I think, I think marble is softer than limestone.

Alex Ferrari 16:41
I mean, it's pretty it's a pretty soft rock where you can mold it with, yeah, sand, sandpaper and,

Luke Caverns 16:46
Yeah, that's why they can make all that stuff look so good.

Alex Ferrari 16:48
It looks so stunning, exactly, but, but the Egyptians were doing things like that with the hardest rocks in the world. And even the Olmecs have a level of detail, yeah,

Luke Caverns 16:59
Absolutely

Alex Ferrari 16:59
That, that is you need to respect.

Luke Caverns 17:02
Oh, man, they've got it's but it's more than the heads. We went to three of these museums that, like I was saying, they're not museums, they're just sheds with a roof on top. And, I mean, you pay a little bit of money to walk in, they open up the door for you, and there's monuments and megalithic statues in there that you're not gonna see no matter how deep you search on the internet. They're just they're just statues that people have put in here to protect it from the rain. And one of them was a basalt bird, but the head was cut off. I don't know how the head got cut off, because this bird was, this bird was God, four feet long and three feet wide and three feet No, four feet tall, and in the wings, like the feathers of the bird, were cut into the rock. And this is basalt. This is a basalt, and the claws and the feet of the bird that the statue was sitting on. The bird's feet were caught, were in, were carved into the rock, and the claws were carved into the rock. It was beyond anything. I wish the head was on there so you could see it. But it was beyond all of the Olmec heads. It was, it was more intricate than that. And that was just one. There was, there was also, uh, also saw a Sphinx in the Olmec world. There's, there's a, it's exactly, it is a, it's probably a jaguar, but it's, it's sitting in the exact same position as as the sphinx of Egypt. The tail goes around the same side, except the only difference is the two paws that are out in the front are going up to the head, and the paws turn into human hands with claws on the end. No, it's nice, and it's ripping its own head in half. And so half of it is this Olmec style, this very Olmec style head, and the other half is like it looks like erosion the first time you see it. And then when you talk to somebody who's a geologist there, no, that's not erosion. They carved it to look like that. And it's actually, it looks they they carve the basalt to look like smoke billowing out of the head. And it's, it's bizarre, man, and that's amazing. I hadn't seen anything like that, and you're never gonna find that on the internet. It just blew my mind. I mean, so when you talk about precision, it may not be symmetry or proportions in the same way that the Egyptians are doing it, dude, they're doing they went on another level. Oh, the statues in Egypt just, just imagine a statue of somebody ripping their own head in half. And half of the head that's carved out of stone is turning into is, is smoke in marble, it's on another level, on marble, and marble will be difficult, and they're doing this in basalt, so it's,

Alex Ferrari 19:46
And this is, again, in the time period that we just can't we have no idea.

Luke Caverns 19:50
We don't. I mean, yeah, we don't know anything about these.

Alex Ferrari 19:52
Let me ask you, because is there any connection with the Atlantean, uh, story? Mm. And Mesoamerica. Is there any connection at all with any other ancient civilization, far ancient, like pre Younger Dryas and civilizations that are connected to, to that, that area of the world? Well, it is kind of very I mean, that's one of the reasons why America is America. We have no natural you know, we don't have Germany and France, yeah, Spain, you know, trying to take over us all the time. We have oceans protecting us. So it's pretty isolated, you know, all of, all of North and South America, so from the rest of the of the continents. So is there any, any story that connects it to

Luke Caverns 20:37
There are some places where, there are some places where people are trying to see or think that there may be a connection. I'll try to go into those. So one of the things that Graham Hancock has popularized is what I was talking about on la venta monument 19, where you see the little handbag on the on the Olmec person, he is holding a handbag that is exactly the same as the handbags you see in in in Mesopotamia. So you think you see one in Syria or Assyria, you see one in this in the Sumerian world. And so

Alex Ferrari 21:13
Egypt, too. Egypt, yeah,

Luke Caverns 21:15
I think, yeah. I think I've seen some in Egypt, maybe. But when you look at it, definitely to the Middle Eastern handbags. I mean, even the there's even a lip on the handbag at the very top where the handles connect, and they're roughly the same size as well, you know, proportionately. And so Graham Hancock has theorized, you know, what, if there was a civilization, you know? What does he say? Like, a department of people going around and bringing civilization and knowledge of how to build cities to different cultures,

Alex Ferrari 21:47
Which is the, there's that story of Atlantis,

Luke Caverns 21:49
There's that sort of, yeah, there's that sort of Atlantis story. And so it's tough when you're talking about Atlantis, because it is become so, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Atlantis is kind of a compass word, like, if we're going, you know, an academic would rebuttal that by saying, are you talking about Atlantis in Plato's dialogs? Because there is nothing mentioning the new world in that. It's like, okay, well, we're talking about the broader scheme of all these mysteries coming together. Atlantis has kind of become the umbrella term for all of this. You know, that's really the only thing in Central America. The Maya seem to be pretty isolated that. I mean, they say that the Olmecs are Mesoamerica mother culture, which may be true, but the Maya really aren't influenced that much by the Olmec. There seems to be a separation, like the Olmec die off, and then the Maya begin, and there's not a lot of connection between them?

Alex Ferrari 22:41
Well, let me ask you this. This is a deeper question in regards to just civilization in general, if it's the mother civilization, if the Olmecs are the oldest, let's say, for argument's sake, the oldest civilization in Mesoamerica. How the hell did they start? And why didn't they start 5000 years earlier? If there were humans, if there were humans around. What happened? You know, 3100 years ago? Yeah, yes, that they, all of a sudden, said, Let's carve some rocks.

Luke Caverns 23:11
Yeah. So, so, yeah. I think maybe we touched on this briefly in the last episode, when we were talking about, you know, at the end of the Ice Age, a lot of the megafauna and the big species in North America die off. Well after that period, it seems like North America, which arguably the Olmec heartland, is like at the bottom of North America, you know, right before you get to Guatemala. So, you know, they think that possibly after that, civilization is allowed, you know, people can keep growing because they're not having to compete with these monsters that are around and hide from them, all you know. So, so, so, but, but also, it's still another 9000 10,000 years before the Olmecs appear after the time of the Younger Dryas. That's a long time, correct? And I don't know. I mean, I can, I can tell you why the Olmecs in particular got started, but I can't really explain why it took 9000 years for civilization to kick off. But so the Olmecs, they became powerful for the exact same region for the exact same reason that the Egyptians did. They had the main river system. So the Egyptians had the Nile. Everyone else had the desert. And, you know, the Tigris and Euphrates River are not the Nile River. They're good rivers, but it's not the Nile doesn't produce the food that the Nile does. The Olmecs have the quetzalcoats River, as well as three other rivers, and they're little tributaries, and they're able to produce the most, the most fruitful maize farms in all of Mesoamerica. So they're, they're, they're corn kingpins, you know. So they become insanely wealthy, just like that, as soon as mass production of corn begins.

Alex Ferrari 24:56
When you say wealthy, what do you mean by wealthy? Gold?

Luke Caverns 24:58
Well. Not gold, so you've got, so you've got, you've got tribes all around the Olmec Cartland. So you have the Olmec Cartland here in Veracruz, but down to the south east of them, you've got, like the proto Mayas, early, early, early Maya people before they're really building what we what we see as a maya. Right south of them, you have the Zapotecs, early proto Zapotecs, that are just trying to, trying to farm maize.

And who are they? Are they going to become the Aztecs or something?

No Zapotecs are just their own people and die off. They they build the city of Monte Alban, which is, you know, it's popular. It's like, I think it's a popular restaurant now. But they build a city of Monte Alban and and they're one of the civilizations that invent riding in Mesoamerica. And they flourish up until about 800 ad but at the time that the Olmecs are around, the Zapotecs really haven't gotten started. They're living in like little earthen mounds farming, you know, but they're not farming it the way the Olmecs are to the to the west of the Olmecs, you have the pre Teotihuacan civilization. So you know, the Pyramid of the Sun, the Moon, the temple of quetzalcoat in Mexico City, you have the pre Teotihuacan civilization.

Alex Ferrari 26:13
Those the mines, or the Aztecs, those the Aztecs.

Luke Caverns 26:15
No, no, they, they disappear before the Aztecs arrive. The the Aztecs are still in what is the modern day United States? They're somewhere. We don't know where they came from, which is interesting. They say that they come from a place called as salon, which is, we don't know. We have no idea where Aslan was it they they think that it was possibly in Utah or Nevada or Colorado. Yeah. But they were, they were kicked out. According to them, they were kicked out about 150 years before they really take over Mexico. So they're not from they're not from Mexico, they're from somewhere in the, somewhere in what we consider the United States. So the Aztecs aren't even around yet.

Alex Ferrari 26:54
So the Aztecs are Mormon because they're coming from I'm joking,

Luke Caverns 26:57
Yep, yeah, basically, and, uh, yeah, very different from the Mormons, the

Alex Ferrari 27:01
Mormon Aztecs. I mean have you not heard about the Mormon Aztecs

Luke Caverns 27:05
So, yeah, you got all these proto, super ancient you got the ancestors of all of our classic Mesoamerican civilizations living around the Olmecs. But the Olmecs are taking off because they've got all the corn. So when I say that they're rich, they are probably, we can't even prove this, but they are probably indexed, because there's not a currency, right? They're just trading goods. They're probably trading a lot of their corn for things like Jade, you know, and Jade is Jade was gold to Mesoamericans, that's what they deemed as as the most valuable metal. There is gold in Mesoamerica. It's very deep in the ground and hard to get to. So, yeah, they were rich in Jade. They were rich in stone. They probably, I don't know, in exchange for all of this corn and food they were producing, they probably had other people go get the stones for them, and they taught them how to move them all. But they're employing these people, maybe, you know, that's probably how their economy was set up. Interesting, but they're rich in that sense, and and so that's why they're able to build this giant, gosh, I think it's like a 200 ton pyramid, something or 200,000 ton pyramid at the site of La vinta. And it's the America's first pyramid, as far as we know, and this is

Alex Ferrari 28:22
Their Chichen Itza. Oh, way, way, yeah, all that stuff. So let me ask you, then, with the with that pyramid, and with all the pyramids that in Mesoamerica, I've been to Chichen Itza and Tulum and a couple other places when you're when you're at the observatory in the Chichen Itza site, or at Chichen Itza itself. The precision, yeah, that those things are built in is no joke. It's no joke. And people like, oh, you know, it's not the Great Pyramid. They're different. They're completely different things. I know it's not nearly as big. I think the I think, isn't the Pyramid of the Sun, exactly half the height of the great of the Great Pyramid, but as twice the base, or the same amount of base,

Luke Caverns 29:05
Same, same, same base, half the height. Okay, someone, I think so

Alex Ferrari 29:09
Exact, though, yeah, like, it's an exact number. Like it's half exactly coincidence, as it always is, a lot of coincidence in the ancient world. Apparently, I

Luke Caverns 29:19
Speaking of that, I have wondered if I don't think it's a coincidence, but I have wondered sometimes if the methods, the methods that become available to ancient people who are, you know, taking these psychedelics, opening up their minds to, I don't even know, levels of consciousness that provide them with the ability to produce, you know, mathematical equations and figure out the stars. Because Mesoamericans are astronomers big time. And I've always wondered, I mean, they're the words. They were the ancient World's Greatest astronomers. They were not eclipsed by anybody else in the world. By far the Maya were that were the greatest astronomers in the ancient world.

Alex Ferrari 29:58
I mean, I was at that. I was at the. Observatory in Chichen. Itza was like, and there's an observatory.

Luke Caverns 30:03
Yeah, yeah. And so I have wondered, if you know, when they built Teotihuacan, which the Maya didn't build Teotihuacan, but still, Mesoamerican civilization, they all share that kind of knowledge. It's like the Greeks. You know, all the Greeks in Athens knew how to read the stars the same way that the Spartans did, but they didn't really get along, but they subscribed to the same overall beliefs and the same gods. You get what I'm saying. And so I have always wondered if, if the means by which they had the knowledge to construct Teotihuacan, if it was inevitable that it was going to be exactly the same base and exactly the same or exactly the half height. So whatever means by which they're doing, they're accessing something similar to what the Egyptians are accessing. So it is evidence that they're both tapping into the same thing, because it was inevitable that it would be that way, if that makes any kind of sense at all,

Alex Ferrari 30:56
It does. I mean, it's just the coincidence of it being half the size, yeah, to, like, accurately, half the size.

Luke Caverns 31:04
Well, here's another thing that you can you can add on to that is, so have you ever seen the Have you ever seen from a bird's eye view, straight down on top of the Giza Plateau? You've got Khufu, you got the three great pyramids, two of them are perfectly aligned, and the third one is just a little bit off, okay? And how that aligns to the constellation of Osiris, or what we consider to be Orion, well, Teotihuacan, the Pyramid of the Sun, I think the one that's the same, the same base and half the height though the Pyramid of the Sun and the pyramid of Moon and the Temple of Quetzalcoatl is the same alignment to Orion. It's they are set up just like this one two, and then the third one is off. So then off to the side, just a little bit.

Alex Ferrari 31:48
So then creating, which, which? Again, when I ask any mainstream archeologist this question, like, coincidink, like, it makes no sense, but we always what you said in the last conversation we had, which is still, I think one of the best theories I've heard about this is that they that everybody on the planet, all these civilizations, they were all high on some sort of psychedelics. And that's, that's historical fact. That's historical Yeah, that's historical fact. Everyone was either doing Ayahuasca or mushrooms or licking the toad, or whatever it is, they're in their op.

Luke Caverns 32:22
I think, I think a lot of people, when you bring up psychedelics, they kind of roll their eyes. Academics do this. And then we also have we we have this, we have this ingrained thing in in modern American culture, we're like, oh, drugs, no. It's kind of,

Alex Ferrari 32:35
It's the, it's the Judah, Christian yeah mentality, yeah. That came over

Luke Caverns 32:40
Well, and dude, the Christians were doing psychedelics in in the first in the first centuries. AD, like the for up until 400 AD, the Christians were heavily the Christian culture were heavily involved in psychedelics. So it's just a stick. It is a it is a historical fact, whether we like it or not, that all ancient cultures had religious cults that were heavily involved and heavily influenced by psychedelics. Nobody can deny it. It's a fact. I mean, the Oracle at Delphi, yeah, the oracle at Siwa, there was one in Egypt as well,

Alex Ferrari 33:13
Yeah. They were obviously high, yeah. And you know, when they were connecting into something and channeling something or so on and so on. But that idea that they all these cultures, were all opening doors to the same location, which is the next level of consciousness,

Luke Caverns 33:29
That right there is my Atlantis, that's what I think is happening.

Alex Ferrari 33:33
That makes the most sense to me from a from the point of view that I come from, which is a spiritual standpoint of consciousness that psychedelics do do that, they allow you to bypass a lot of work that the yogis might be doing in the meditation, and it opens up doors that you might not be ready for. That's why people, a lot of people, go crazy if they take a psychedelic. And a lot of people back there. Can you imagine walking in and all of a sudden you walk up and, you know, I had a I had a friend of mine who took, took some LSD, took a lot of it actually, accidentally in the 60s. And when he got there, after his whole body was deconstructed, and he went into another realm, he went all the way to the edge of the universe, where there was a creature, a being, who said, Turn to Him, and goes, What are you doing here? You're not supposed to be here. Get out of here and left, and he got slammed back into his body. Imagine that. And he did it again, by the way, years later, and he got back to the same place. And the guys, I told you, what are you doing here? He got it was fascinating. Fascinating. He's an Oscar winner, by the way, now, yeah, with the movies he did, but imagine we, we're, we're going into a psychedelic experience with the knowledge and experience that we have now. You imagine a tribesman somewhere in the Amazon who took a little something something and got thrown into that, yeah, it's absolutely mind blowing. But to be able to come back with some. Of that knowledge, some of that, that information, to be able to do the things that they did. Because, I mean, I'm when, I'm when I was standing in front of Chichen Itza, I'm looking at, I'm like, there's no, there's no way. I don't, I don't understand that the accuracy, you know, the clap thing, the clap thing with the stairs. Yeah, come on, man, that's crazy.

Luke Caverns 33:51
Yeah, I think, I think that, you know, well, there's two things about Chichen Itza that archeologists tend to, you know, it's probably, it's probably just coincidence one of them, one of them is the clap. But it's not just the Chichen Itza. You can see that at other Maya sites in particular, and they say that it mimics the call of the quetzalbird. The other thing about that is that I'm sure you've seen this before, and maybe you're even there when it was happening. But on the on the spring equinox, oh yeah, the you'll see, you'll see, there's the stairs turning. Yeah, yeah. The staircase there is a kind of a rail that goes up, or a little wall that goes up that supports the staircase. And in the walls of the staircases pop off of the off of the in the snakehead, then there's a snake head at the bottom. There's also a snake head at the top too. And and so when the when the sun is rising and when it's setting, on the spring equinox, and it happens before the equinox and right after the equinox to, I think it's a cycle of, like, 10 days that you can see this effect, but on the equinox, it's the most vivid. And so when it's setting the steps that come off the side of the pyramid project onto the staircase, the wall that juts out from the pyramid that connecting or supporting the staircase, and you can see the undulating serpent going down the pyramid. And I swear archeologists say, Well, you know, it's just a coincidence with the orientation.

Alex Ferrari 36:45
Jesus, you could throw a monkey.

Luke Caverns 36:47
Oh, where, what? Why say that? Like, okay, we don't know anything really about the Maya. They're just, we only just in the last 50 years, deciphered Maya hieroglyphics, you know, to the point that we could start reading everything. And they were the ancient World's Greatest astronomers. If anybody that existed in antiquity could do this, it was the Maya, and there is there, literally academia that's saying, people in academia saying the majority, the vast majority. That was a coincidence. I would say the vast majority of Mesoamerican archeologists think that.

Alex Ferrari 37:18
So eventually, what you're saying is, then you could throw a monkey in a typewriter in a room, and eventually they're gonna write the some at one point or another. Got that monkey's gonna write the Godfather, yeah, yeah, it's eventually gonna just pump out war and peace, yeah, eventually, yeah, just by time. So that's the equivalent of, like, maybe I was, oh, look, look what we did on this exact date. Every year we had this snake. Oh, no, we also built the head of that. That's insane. Yeah, that is such a stupid

Luke Caverns 37:46
Well, we were also the ancient World's Greatest astronomers.

Alex Ferrari 37:48
But on top of that, and it's about astronomy, don't worry about that. That's the problem I have with mainstream academia when it comes to all this stuff, is that they don't, they don't, are not open to other people's ideas. And it could be because they're selling textbooks and they don't want to rewrite them, or it could be that they are so ingrained in what they've been they've been taught that they can't they can't open themselves up to other ideas that might disprove what they've done. And same thing physics and quantum physics has been in purgatory up until recent years. It's been around for over 100 years.

Luke Caverns 38:26
I think that there's also a trend now with, you know, you have people, I guess, I guess, like myself, who, you know, build your own platform, and I'm able to express my views on online. And whoever's louder gets the most Sure, sure whoever's loud or whoever's story is interesting gets the most clicks. Is that the other? And I think that there is now a knee jerk reaction by academics who know that if somebody's hypothesizing something that's been mentioned by Graham Hancock, when Graham Hancock is saying, Well, look at all the amazing things in the ancient world that are still mysteries. This, that and the other, this this academic has heard Graham Hancock mentioned this before, Randall Carson, they hear, they hear some they hear someone else mention it, and they go, no, well, you know that that's probably not true. Actually. That's just actually a coincidence. You know, they want to be, they want to be like antithetical and the contrarian. Yeah, they want to be contrarian and, and I am seeing that all the time now, and I almost think that that this old guard is still there. It's dying off. In the new guard are people who are just trying to be contrarian, you know, because the Graham Hancock gets all these clicks talking about ancient mysteries, so they're trying to basically kill the mystery and, you know, and they're not, they're not trying to, they're trying to kill people's wonder in the ancient world, is what I should say,

Alex Ferrari 39:45
Which is not going away. If these shows, if these episodes that we're having are any indication, people are starving for this stuff. I mean, Ancient Aliens has been on for what, 18 seasons. You know, it's forever. Yeah, um, I wanted to touch upon that. Uh, before we dive into the Lost Cities, the the ancient alien hypothesis, which basically has its origins from the Sumerian please correct me if wrong from the Sumerian stories of the Anunnaki coming in. And there's, there is historical fact for this story sure to be around, yeah. And then you could also go to the Bhagavad too. And there's a lot of conversations about, you know, that as well, flying machine nuclear weapons in that story as well. And people were like, well, you know, they were just telling stories. I go correct me if I'm wrong. But when you carve something into stone, it's generally not a story. If you're carving something into stone, it's not like you and me, like you know what? Let's talk about the Jedi, yeah. And let's just it's a lot of work to do something like that. It's not like you and me writing something down, and we could just tell a story. There's some sort of historical fact for this, and there's also to my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong. A lot of the major ancient civilizations have some sort of sky gods, sure, some sort of, you know, other person, other being, coming down and bestowing knowledge and helping them raise civilization. Yeah, a pantheon, yeah, throughout the world. I can't believe that's coincidence. I'm not going to sit here and we're not going to talk about UFOs showing up and sharing this, but I'd love to hear your idea, your thoughts on the Anunnaki, on the basis of, historically, where they, where they're found, and how it also affects Mesoamerica as well.

Luke Caverns 41:36
So the Anunnaki, you know? I mean, that's, that's Middle Eastern history, Sumerian, right, yeah, yeah. It's, it's not really my forte. But, you know, I do know that that the Anunnaki are the basis and inspiration for a lot of other religions, deities as well, and other religions, pantheons. I mean, I believe that the Epic of Gilgamesh comes from, yeah, yeah. And, you know, the Epic of Gilgamesh seemingly inspires Noah's Ark

Alex Ferrari 42:08
Yeah, as a flood story. So first time the flood story ever shows up, yeah,

Luke Caverns 42:12
Yeah. And so I have no doubt that that the influence of Anunnaki, whatever that story really is, and whatever the actual history behind it is permeated all of Mediterranean history. You know, they're, they're here on the Mediterranean, and that story, that idea, starts, yeah, they encompass it. Encompass, encompasses the Mediterranean world, and all the way up to the point that it influences Judeo Christian religion, at least. You know, the earliest texts of Judeo, Christian religion. Furthermore, you know, we don't really see, I guess there are parallels in the same way that you have elemental gods in Mesoamerica. You know, you've got the wind god, you've got the sky god of the rain. You got the God of the mountain, you've got the god of the underworld. You have these elemental beings. And I don't really think that that's a coincidence. Again, I think that where people are probably deriving these things from, whether or not you know, human beings are all designed genetically similarly, so that when you take these psychedelics, we're all going to envision certain things, or whether what people are seeing is really there or not? I, you know, obviously I can't answer that, but they are even on opposite side of the world, 1000s of years apart. People are creating the same deities. They're creating the same elemental beings. And so I think that they're being influenced by the same things that that's I don't think it is a literal culture coming there and bringing them the knowledge of these gods. No, I think they're learning about them in their own way, and it's pretty obvious that they're tapping into a similar source. When you look at all the similarities between the pantheon of gods,

Alex Ferrari 43:54
And when you look at the Bhagavad, I mean the stories of I mean the blue skinned, you know, blue skinned gods, you know, that came down, flying machines, nuclear weapons, laser weapons, talking about this 6000 years ago, you know, and probably older, depending on how far back you think, the vedics, the Vedic texts, go, that doesn't have a direct relationship to the Anunnaki, But it's in the same,

Luke Caverns 44:22
It seems to be similar.

Alex Ferrari 44:24
Well, a sky god, yeah, God's coming in from Sky kind of vibe.

Luke Caverns 44:27
Oh, the olmecs have the same thing,

Alex Ferrari 44:29
Yeah, yeah. And, well, isn't the Maya, isn't the very famous I have it? Where is it? It's somewhere, yeah, there it is. This guy.

Luke Caverns 44:39
Oh, is that piccall?

Alex Ferrari 44:40
Yeah, yeah, I got that when I was there.

Luke Caverns 44:42
So, Oh, you went to palenke, yeah. Oh, cool, cool.

Alex Ferrari 44:45
So, so, when I was that, that, um, that, that's the top of his sarcophagi sarcophagus, correct? Isn't that, like a supposed to be a spaceship? I mean, well, I mean, I'm asking,

Luke Caverns 44:57
Yeah, no, the the traditional idea. Idea is that is that he is being if you look at it, there's a monster underneath him. That's it. Yeah. So if you look at him, please tell us show it on here. So if you look at it right here, you've got the monster of the underworld. This is his jaws, and it looks like he's reaching up and he's grabbing, he's grabbing Bacall. And the idea is that you can see his sash kind of moving right here. And the idea is that he is either moving up and being pulled down, or is being pulled down and into the underworld. And he's underneath the tree of life, which is kind of like a cross, sure. And there's so there's so much more, there's a lot of stuff going but the idea, the idea is that, like Hades, essentially, Hades is grabbing him and pulling him into the underworld while he's also looking up and being pulled down. That that's the traditional idea.

Alex Ferrari 45:48
Now, what is the Graham Hancock spaceship model of the same image I just wanted?

Luke Caverns 45:53
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I think, I think if you turn it to the side,

Alex Ferrari 45:58
Yeah, it looks like, it looks like a rocket ship. Yeah, it looks like he's inside.

Luke Caverns 46:02
It looks like he's inside of a rocket, like, on a, on a, like a, like a bike stool, like, yeah, turning knobs. I can and I can see it. I can see it too, yeah, I mean, that it's not what I believe, but it's an interesting, it's an interesting story. Gosh, and it's funny, even right here, this fire was, like, there's a little fire nitro boosters.

Alex Ferrari 46:21
Yeah, there's, there's no doubt about it, there's something there. It's fascinating. And I agree, like, Look, I'm not sure if there's a rocket ship on there, yeah, but it's interesting to start to go down the storyline of this and to see where this is, because, again, there's so many cultures around the world that talk about sky gods or some other being coming down to bestow knowledge to them. Yeah, throughout through, and it's Mesoamerica is no different, and Native America is the Native Americans no different. So there's it's interesting. Why that is? Why would we need? Is it because we have a need to have a God above us to come down and, you know, and you know, we are just, you know, we're just followers, something like that. I put that, yeah, followers and put it back. What do you why do you think that it permeates throughout the world, in every culture, Japanese, Asian, I mean, everywhere.

Luke Caverns 47:25
Man, I wonder if it's just the I wonder if it's just the inevitable. It's just the inevitable route that humanity was always going to go down. There's no, I don't know. Man, maybe there's no, there's no reason for it other than, maybe there's no reason for it other than, that's the way it had to happen. If that makes sense. You know, human beings had to be exposed to something, or that somebody, somebody eventually took two plants, put them together, and ate it. And, you know, you're all of a sudden, maybe that primitive mind that people have. Here's a whole other thing is, is, you know, when they tried to study the evolution of human beings, it seems like there's a missing link between, like, a an early, earlier prehistoric human or homo sapien, yeah, and then what we are today, it seems like there's a little gap. And I have it makes makes sense to me as someone who's not like a microbiologist or a biologist or a doctor, but it makes sense to me that, who knows, maybe these early proto humans are messing around with foraging, these plants, put two things together, eat it, and then all of a sudden, your IQ, like just people, are taking psychedelics faster and faster and fashion, and your IQ is inflating and growing, and all of a sudden your genetics respond to that and change, you know?

Alex Ferrari 48:47
I mean, yeah, so I can understand there's that theory of psychedelics being the reason why we there was this giant jump.

Luke Caverns 48:52
And that also connects to, have you ever heard of the serpent seed theory?

Alex Ferrari 48:56
No, what's that?

Luke Caverns 48:57
Okay, I think this might be something that that you and your audience would like. So I don't really on my channels. I almost never talk about religion, Christianity. I'll say I am a Christian, but I think that, I think that Christianity and God is vastly different than people think. You know, I think we have a very simplistic view of Yahweh, of the Bible, of this, you know,

Alex Ferrari 49:21
Angry, jealous, God, angry, jealous, very insecure,

Luke Caverns 49:24
Sitting up on a cloud, sitting up on a cloud, throwing lightning bolts at people, you know,

Alex Ferrari 49:29
And let's not even talk about what Jesus's true teachings are. Sure it's been manipulated a little bit over the years.

Luke Caverns 49:33
Yeah, and, and one, especially, especially like, as America has, the United States has run away with Christianity. You go to a church nowadays. It is the, I mean, these local niche, you know, trendy Baptist churches are not, are not preaching or teaching or representing themselves the way that Christians in the first centuries. Ad were, it's, it's just such a different

Alex Ferrari 49:57
Pre Vatican, yeah, pre Roman Catholic.

Luke Caverns 49:59
Yeah, yeah, it's just so anyways. But I think that, I think that this idea of human beings taking a part of something, either eating something, or taking a part in something that they maybe weren't necessarily supposed to or is, is something that's only reserved for higher consciousness beings, or higher beings. I think that that is reflected in the story of Genesis with Adam and Eve. You know, you have Adam who I you have, you have Adam who I think is mankind. You have Eve, who I think is just woman kind. I'm sure that there are other men and women alive at that time too. And the Bible, seems, the Bible even tells men and women to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over the earth. Yeah, before Adam and Eve are being even mentioned, God tells them to be fruitful and multiply. But, um, you know when, when she consumes of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and, you know, she looks at it and, and I won't go all the way into it, but she looks at it and says, it says, It's pleasing to her eyes. She eats from it, and then she enjoys it. Her mind is like opened up. She convinces Adam to take part in it as well. And then when God comes down to the garden and he's walking amongst the garden, they appear. And you know, he asked them, like, why are you covering yourselves with vines and clothing. And they're like, like, oh well, we were ashamed. He was like, Who told you that you should be ashamed? And so they're like, oh well, you know the serpent in the tree. And so I think there's two ways. There's two ways that this goes. I think that. I think there's two ways I think this goes. I think one, you have the literal serpent seed theory, which is that the vast majority of the times that the word fruit is mentioned in the Bible, it means a man or a woman's sex organs, the vast majority of the time. And so I think that when Eve was looking on the serpent, who I don't really think is a serpent, I think, according to the Bible, demonic people or fallen angels are just beautiful men. That's where they are. And she looked on him and saw that it was pleasing to the eye. And she was beguiled by him, beguiled as a sexual term. So I think that, I think the long story short, they probably, you know, did it with, did it with this serpent who's really just probably a good looking person, and probably she was impregnated by some kind of higher being. And so, I mean, there's a literal conversation between Yahweh and the serpent and Eve and Adam where this is very, very clear. But long story short, I think that either human beings is getting kind of mystical, are impregnated with the with the DNA of higher beings. That's why we have this innate sense of good and evil. That's why we have intuition. Because we are higher beings, that's a whole other thing. Or there's just psychedelics out there. And somehow some woman had a relationship with God, or wherever this higher being is, and he said, he said, all the food of the forest and all the foraging you want you can have, but these few plants don't consume that. That is not for you, you know. That's the knowledge of good and evil. She takes that, you know, and then her mind is opened up. She has good and evil because she knows the knowledge of good and evil. Because, in the Bible, as soon as God finds out that men and women have taken part of this, He then turns around to the council that's in heaven, whoever these other beings are, the council, yeah, and he's supposed to be the dude, he said. And he says to them, he says, Behold man, has become like us because she took part in this fruit, this tree, or whatever.

Alex Ferrari 53:29
So okay, so that I love that theory. That's a whole rabbit hole. It's a definitely a deep rabbit hole you can go down. I love the theory. I think it's a very interesting hypothesis of that what I find interesting. And I heard this the other day. I'm not sure if I heard it on my show when I was talking, I heard it somewhere else that humanities, the DNA. This could, this could so long, so called junk DNA that we have, which makes no sense why we have junk DNA. But there is something called junk DNA that we have inside of us that no one really knows what it's for. It's just there because we could explain every other piece of our DNA, except for this piece called junk DNA, and that there is literally caps on the top of our DNA strands that limit our aging, like we have an expiration date. Oh, really, a built in expiration date. This is science. This is not, this is not tinfoil at this is science that there is a cap on our, on our age, because in all, in all honesty, we should live forever. We generate a new skin every what few years, a new heart. Our cells die off and regenerate, die so, like Wolverine, we should arguably be regenerating ourselves, basically until we want to stop. What causes the aging? What that is interesting? What is causing that? So that's one aspect to it, which then goes into the Anunnaki thing of our DNA being affected, which also goes into the theory you just said.

Luke Caverns 55:00
As a side note, did you know that some reptiles don't age? Oh, exactly like a crocodile does not age. It dies when it gets too big and it can't consume enough food or compete against other smaller, faster crocodiles. They can't get enough food, so it dies off from malnutrition. So it's weird. Some beings, like turtles, they have the same problem. They just get bigger and bigger and bigger and they can't sustain themselves, so they die from malnutrition. It's interesting that some animals don't have an age factor, but we do.

Alex Ferrari 55:26
Well, jellyfish, there's a jellyfish that lives forever. Oh, is there really? There's a literal jellyfish that regenerates itself constantly. No way. So it cannot die. It does. It just doesn't die. That's crazy. Yeah, it's just, it's a specific brand of the brand, a specific kind or species of jellyfish. There's a brand of jellyfish that can regenerate itself on a constant level and live forever, because it can't get too big like an alligator, because of the kind of entity. So so this, this idea of the Anunnaki coming in, doing genetic testing on us and getting us to where we are, which I'll get to in a second, where, where that theory goes, but leans with what you were saying in regards to the taking the psychedelics or going down the road, something happened to our genetics. However we did it, something happened to our genetics that all of a sudden we just took off because we were weaker than Neanderthals and not as well suited for the environment as Neanderthals. Neanderthals are heavier, hairier, stronger, much stronger than us, bigger. They are built for this earth. Yeah. We, on the other hand, today, if we are out in the sun too long, we burn, yeah, right. We get sick. How many animals in nature have colds, yeah, yeah, or flus. I mean, seriously, yeah, you know, other than, other than when we'd create certain some sort of crap like bird flu. But in nature, have you ever heard of an elephant dying of flu or cancer. It's not a thing. So in nature, that's not but we are. It doesn't seem like we are really suited for the planet, quote, unquote, in the same way that a Neanderthal would have been, or how just the rest of the Earth, rest of the other creatures on this planet, are. So the question is, what? What caused us to take a massive leap to the point where, in a, I don't know how long the time period was from when this, when we started, to when Neanderthals were gone, but it was quick, like the Neanderthals got wiped out quickly, and there was, and then they're not the only one. There was, like, a bunch of different Homo erectus,

Luke Caverns 57:41
Homo sapiens, yeah, I want to say there's maybe just less than 10,

Alex Ferrari 57:44
Yeah, something like that, right? Yeah, of other kinds of off breeds of us. But yet we, and by the way, Neanderthal bigger brains, yeah, on top of it all. So what was it about us, what caused us to make this evolutionary jump in the span of very small amount, not hundreds of 1000s of years, but like, 1000s of years, like quick.

Luke Caverns 58:05
I wonder if we were like, I wonder if we were just vastly more violent than all of the others,

Alex Ferrari 58:12
But we weren't, but we weren't, but we didn't have the physicality to do it. It was our break. The only reason we survive on this planet is our brain. Well, sure, sure, yeah. You know, that's the only reason we can even survive, and we're the apex predator is because of our brain. We can't fight a gorilla, our brain can Is that crazy? We can't fight an elephant, we can't fight a bear, but we're the apex predator of this planet because of our brain. And yet, there was an ape, there was another cousin of ours, and maybe more, I'm not sure. I don't know about the other eight or nine that had a bigger brain, had more strength than we did, was better suited for the environment than we were, and yet they didn't make it. So I don't think violence was the thing. Maybe mentally, we were more violent, but physically we couldn't compete within the Neanderthal directly like you and I can't go against the silverback. Yeah. No, there. I think was a 10 to 12 times as strong as us. Oh, it's something. And they just leaves. By the way, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah. So it's the massive amount of power that these, these creatures have, but yet, we dominate the entire planet through our mind. So what was it that made us make this evolutionary jump? Could it have been psychedelics? Possibly of a rewiring. I mean, that's a lot of psychedelics. And also possibly, it could be a lot of psychedelics, but that would explain a small group of people. Think everybody was high? Sure? Yeah. So that might maybe for some elites or some people who just got access to that, yeah, that makes sense. But for a species to jump because of just that doesn't hold as Sure, sure, yeah, as much for me, does that make sense?

Luke Caverns 59:53
Yeah, yeah. And I guess, I guess I'm not really taking into consideration or stating, you know, I have no idea. If that did happen, you know, I don't think it was 10,000 years ago. It was probably at, maybe at a time where there weren't that many Homo sapiens, if that makes sense.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:08
Oh yeah. There wasn't millions of us. There was maybe 100,000 Yeah, 50,000 the world, 20

Luke Caverns 1:00:13
Sure, sure. So that's what I'm saying. You know, maybe it's something that was ubiquitous then, and

Alex Ferrari 1:00:19
Maybe it was small enough groups that, like, if I took some, I took some, I gave it to my wife. We had a kid. Yeah, that new kid adds that that new gene tray,

Luke Caverns 1:00:27
Yeah, he's pushed a little further, a little further. And who knows. I mean, these, these untapped genetics, you know, these, these, like almost pure untapped genetics, you know, I wish that we had other hominids alive, so that we could, it sounds bad, but so that we could test it on them, you know, like a Homo erectus or or homo homo abilis Or a Neanderthal, just say, Hey, man, take this Ayahuasca. Let's see what happens, you know, and see how that, see how they react to that. I have no idea, you know, I'm just kind of spitballing, throwing out there, because nobody really knows. But what? What do you think?

Alex Ferrari 1:01:01
I think I honestly the the Ancient Alien Theory, which comes from the Sumerian text of the Anunnaki man. I it's pretty out there, I gotta say. I mean, it is a pretty out there theory. It makes logical sense to me, even as a storyteller, as a filmmaker, it makes logical sense. I'm not sure what messed with our genetics, but I think something did. Something happened to our genetics on a species wide level, something happened that we could make this giant jump. Now we're also estimating, based on this conversation that we've only been around for 100,000 years, yeah? Or maybe 200,000 years, yeah?

Luke Caverns 1:01:45
I think 200 is, like

Alex Ferrari 1:01:46
The general thing, right? But no one is taking into account that maybe within those last 200,000 years, we've been reset a few times, yeah, yeah. Like, like a Younger Dryas every 10 20,000 years, yeah? And we just don't know it. We don't remember, yeah, have access to,

Luke Caverns 1:02:01
I mean, I mean, one thing about that is, say, say there was a civilization that existed 150,000 years ago, pre Atlanta, yeah, and say, say they built, gosh. I mean, okay, so 150,000 years ago, yeah, yeah, yeah. 150,000 years ago, Florida is so much bigger than it is right now. So say desert. Florida. Desert. Yeah. So say, so say Florida. On the coast of Florida, 150,000 years ago, there's a massive civilization built there that housed, let's say 50,000 people, 100,000 people. That's a big city in the ancient world, and say that they have, in Florida, they have, they have a bunch of trees. So they're building a lot of stuff out of wood. They're piling up dirt and making mounds. They don't really have the same kind of rocks to build big rock pyramids. Cool, but yeah, so even if they so, they're building all of that. And over the course of 150,000 years, the coastline of Florida sinks and all of that due to soil disposition. I mean, do the walls of Jericho are the earliest? Walls are 8000 years ago, and they are 45 to 60 feet under the ground, 8000 years ago. Multiply that by 150 divided by eight, you know, I don't know whatever that is, but multiply it by that, how far down is the structure going to be? That's 150,000 years old? You're not finding it, you know. I don't even know if any advance in technology would be able to locate a structure that's 150,000 years under the ground, you know.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:39
Well, how about in the ocean?

Luke Caverns 1:03:41
Yeah, well, the ocean rises up. How are you? Yeah, there's no way.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:45
Well, they just found that. Like I said, Well, I sent a large conversation. I found that city on the coast of India. There's that city or that those ruins underneath those giant monolithic ruins in Japan, under the ocean, there was obviously a city there at one point.

Luke Caverns 1:03:59
Yeah, was that was that city calling Yogi something something,

Alex Ferrari 1:04:02
Yeah, but, but these are, these are, there's so much that we don't know, yeah, but, so let's say there was a city 100,000 years ago that's gone now,

Luke Caverns 1:04:11
Yeah, it's completely gone.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:12
It's gone. There's nothing left of it.

Luke Caverns 1:04:15
And I would venture to guess there are some exceptions to this. Most of the time in the ancient world, your civilization is either built on a coastline or next to a river. Well, this till to this day, yeah, yeah. I mean, it takes some, it takes a lot of ingenuity to build your civilization away from a river. Like, you know, the Maya did that, which is crazy that they did that. They They carved giant holes in the ground to catch rainwater. And crazy, they had these big tanks in the side of mountains with full of waters. Nuts.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:48
Yeah, it rains a lot down there, yeah.

Luke Caverns 1:04:50
But you know, if there was civilizations 100,000 years ago, I would venture to say, just roll the dice. I'd say it's more likely that they were going to be. Coastline civilizations, more or less, and that is gone. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:05:04
The coastline is different 100,000 years ago, the coastline doesn't even look the world doesn't look like it

Luke Caverns 1:05:09
Yeah. I mean, the coastline is you, and I would be you, and I would sail a mile off, off of the beach, or a mile away from the beach, into the ocean before we're on top of what would have been an ancient city

Alex Ferrari 1:05:19
If a mile maybe 20 miles. Who knows? 30 miles? Who knows?

Luke Caverns 1:05:23
So you're not, you're not recovering any

Alex Ferrari 1:05:27
To be honest with you, I think that's by design. You think so? I think that's by grand design. You know, of of the if you were gonna get metaphysical in the universal standpoint of our evolution as a soul of souls here. We're not supposed to get that information. I don't think we're ready for it, but as we become more ready for it, these these things are starting to pop up more and more, much more than they did 50 years ago or 100 years ago. So this information is starting to pop up more and more. These conversations are starting to pop up more and more because we're more ready to accept these conversations. I say on the show all the time that a show like this wouldn't have made it 10 years ago in the same way, because people weren't as interested in hearing about channels or psychics or ancient mysteries, not as the same way as they are now. They're rabid, and getting more rabid internationally than they've ever been, because they're looking for answers. And now the answers are starting to come up in different and all fields across the world, things are starting to come up. But I think it's by design that we're not, not really supposed to know our if tomorrow we found archeological proof that we've been around for 200,000 years, and there has been 20 advanced civilizations, and there is proof of all of it, and it's all laid out beautifully. What would that do to the psyche of the human race right now?

Luke Caverns 1:06:57
People will be having an existential crisis.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:59
Can you imagine if there's been 20 other times. I'm just throwing that number out, every 10,000 years we reset. And every thought, every 10,000 years, we move just a bit but further bit further. Sometimes we go back. Sometimes we go further, a little further out. But let's say that's the that's been the path for the last 200,000 years. And let's say, for argument's sake, that, and 200,000 years ago we were planted by aliens. I was just throwing them out there. Screw it. Why not? Anunnaki showed up and they planted us 200,000 years ago and see what happens with us. And they're watching us somewhere, and just saying, imagine if all that information just showed up tomorrow, and there's proof. It's, you can't argue it, it's, it's right there, it's, yeah, it's, it's there. Can you imagine what would, what would happen to humanity?

Luke Caverns 1:07:48
Oh, man, tear us apart.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:53
It would so, because we're not ready for that information.

Luke Caverns 1:07:56
That's probably why. That's probably why would they won't just come out and say aliens exist,

Alex Ferrari 1:08:00
Even though they're they've been dancing around forever now with the uafs and the UFOs and governmental government agencies. I'm like, There's something going on. I don't know what's going on. There's something there's something happening. Um, you know, we're so kind of numb at this point that there's congressional hearings on uafs. Nobody cares, and no one cared that. There was a bunch of guys from the government saying, yeah, there's things in the air. We don't know what they are, that that was not top that wasn't headline news, yeah. They're like, Oh, and today they were over. Yeah, you know, we're just so kind of, like, kind of accepting of it. If that would have happened 50 years ago or 100 years ago? Yeah, can you imagine our heads was exploded? Yeah. We're ready for that kind of information. To be honest with you, I think we're almost ready for something to something to show up. If something showed up tomorrow, we kind of be kind of more, somewhat more prepared for, I don't think we're there yet, but I think it would be interesting to see where we go. It's, I think all of this is by design. Man, just like Einstein said, he goes, I don't believe in God. But, man, this is not a coincidence. There's an organizing

Luke Caverns 1:09:09
I do. I do feel like though that, you know, you have a, you have a large group of people, you know, let's say, in the first world, that are, I guess, sort of mentally prepared for some being from another, you know, planet or whatever, to show up. But, man, if that really did happen, world religion would just flip upside down, like, I mean, you would see, you would I honestly think we would see war like never before, something, something, I think that something would eventually happen, because you have, well, how many religions would say that's a demon, you know what I mean. And if an alien shows up, they're definitely more sophisticated than our own civilization. And then what happens if they try to get involved? And how many people are going to see it as you know, that's. Devil, you know, and then rises.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:01
So the thing is this, and this is another thing a lot of people always have. A lot of people always ask me on comments and stuff. They're like, do you think that, you know, you know, an alien race is going to show up and, like, destroy the planet, or something like that, like Independence Day? And to my understanding, from a spiritual standpoint, that's not possible to be done. And then this is a logical, logical argument. You know why? Because to be able to access technology that can help you travel across the universe, you have to be at a level of consciousness that is so far beyond war that you wouldn't be able to access it. Does that make sense? I could see that, yeah, because you, you know, we've been accessing this technology little by little by little, but there was a reason why Alexander the Great did not have a nuclear bomb. He would have used. We would have destroyed ourselves. Yeah, there's a reason why Rome didn't have machine guns, because they weren't ready. That consciousness of humanity wasn't ready for that kind of information. So with that understanding, if you continue to evolve past to a certain level of consciousness, you will gain access to that kind of technology.

Luke Caverns 1:11:07
Yeah, yeah. And there's a reason. There's a reason that it was the Manhattan Project that invented the nuclear bomb, and not all of Adolf Hitler's scientists that he had, you know, isn't that amazing? They were far ahead. I mean, these guys, they were, these guys were working on trying to recreate, or create UFOs. And they had, they had the they had the German was that Tiger tanks, and they had jets before anybody else did. And they were working on devastating bombs. I mean, had the v2 rocket, and they were working on other stuff. It is a miracle

Alex Ferrari 1:11:41
That Oppenheimer and gang?

Luke Caverns 1:11:43
It is a miracle that we, that we created, that we weren't even we weren't even on top of the world, yet we were still like under

Alex Ferrari 1:11:51
Oh no, we started. America's rise to power really happened after World War Two,

Luke Caverns 1:11:55
Exactly. And so it is a miracle that the Allies created that bomb, and not the Axis powers

Alex Ferrari 1:12:04
Exactly. Though, there's probably another parallel reality where they did,

Luke Caverns 1:12:07
Maybe so, but, but when you're saying that, as far as you know, if there are, if there are beating beings from other worlds that you know, if they're creating, if they have the ability of interplanetary travel, they're probably far beyond the idea of of war and just eviscerating other civilizations. That also alludes to that, the fact that there's got to be a sense of morality and beings that are, you know, we have our reality here. There's something outside of it, even greater, you know.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:37
Oh, well, of course. And that's not we're talking about simulation theory, and, yeah, and we're starting to get into the quantum physics of it, which I didn't, I could go deep down that rabbit hole, but yeah, I mean, there's, there's a definitely, we're not it. This is definitely not it. We're this is, this is, in my opinion, a simulation. This is a game. This is where we come down to learn our lessons. This will come down to experience things. We are Mario playing, trying to save the princess, and we happen to be playing Mario, and we're learning these lessons as we go through the game. And just like you and I, choose the path that we want to go down, we as souls, choose the path we want to go down in this life. That's just this is a concept that's very old, spiritual idea of soul blueprints and soul plans, where we come down to choose the path that we want to walk, choose the struggles we want to walk. Because people like, why would you want to choose a struggle? Because I don't know about you, but anytime I've struggled in my life, that's the one I've learned the most lessons I never learned when I'm high, like up the top, when I'm winning. You don't learn when you're winning. You learn when you lose. You learn when you have adversity. You learn when Darth, Vader is in front of you, not when woohoo. It's smooth sailing. You don't learn. You don't grow. So those adversities we look at like, Oh, God. Why would you want to be born into an abusive family on the other side, it's not looked at like, just like you and I would look at a video game going, oh, I want to go on level hard as opposed to level easy. It's just too easy. I could just run right through and I got the code for that one level. Hearts gonna challenge me. And, you know, and we're looking at it as a player in the game, but for that player hurts a lot ones, yeah, but we're looking at it from this point of view. But anyway, yeah, sure. We can keep going down these, these other roads, but all going back to the Anunnaki and this ancient aliens theory, it's fascinating. Ancient Aliens has made a complete Empire off of, oh, yeah, of these ideas, and they're still strong. It's because people are fascinated with this stuff. I tell people that I talk about ancient civilizations on the show, and they're like, really, you know, I've been watching that Graham Hancock thing on Netflix, or I've been watching the I watch ancient civilizations. There's a lot. I mean, there's a there's a reason why those shows are so popular, yeah,

Luke Caverns 1:14:51
And they all have to whisper it like it's a secret, you know, right? I know.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:55
I think the Annunaki kind of stuff, yeah?

Luke Caverns 1:15:00
Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:15:00
It's fascinating, but now it's people are. People are people are starting to come out of that closet a bit more and wave that freak flag a bit more because of these kind of shows and these kind of conversations. So Alright, so let's, let's dive into another area that I of, Mesoamerica, that I have absolutely not know nothing about. Let's do the Lost Cities of the Lost City of Z The Lost City of Gold. El Dorado. What are? What is the history behind all of that? Man, is it? Is there an actual city of gold? Oh, yeah. Is there, like it? Do you just believe has they found something? Tell me what?

Luke Caverns 1:15:39
Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So, so, okay, so, just basic terminology, yeah. So El Dorado Lost City of Z all the cities of gold that is South America. Meso America begins right at Mexico City and in somewhere in Panama. We don't really know exactly where it ends. So that's Meso America. You know that's that is your iconic cultures are Teotihuacan, which they just we don't, you know. We don't even know the name of the culture that built Teotihuacan, like the Pyramid of the Sun, the Moon and Quetzalcoatl. We have no idea what their name was, and they were extremely influential. Ice tax, yeah, yeah. You have the Maya, the Aztecs, the Olmecs, the Toltecs, the Zapotecs, teoti buchanos, and there's couple others in there, but those are your those are your main in Mesoamerica. In South America, you have ancient Colombian and Ecuadorian cultures, which, there's a whole host of them. You have your Peruvian cultures. So you know, you have your Inca, your Warri, your Moche, you can go, you can go, your coral supe cultures. And then in the Amazon, you have Amazonian culture. South of Amazon, you've got Patagonia. And I don't know much too much about that, but that's kind of where your cultures are. And so in so you were asking about the Cities of Gold. So when Cortez arrives in Mexico, Cortez conquers the Aztec city of Tenochtitlan. He come. When he arrives in the city, he sees all I mean, it is described as being so amazing and so miraculous, far beyond anything that the Spaniards had seen. They would the Spanish soldiers would go to Cortez, and they would say, were my eyes lying to me? Was I dreaming about what I saw? It was, it was a city sophisticated beyond anything that the Spanish had seen. And that's not really talked about a lot. I mean, they had, they had temples with astronomical with Astro that were astronomical observatories. But you would walk into the temple and there would be a rectangular hole cut in the roof, and parallel to that would be a rectangular, uh, pool of water that was maybe, maybe an inch deep. And so they have markings around the edge of the pool. And so they're sitting in chairs watching the night sky and move over the pool, rather than having to sit up like this. They're watching the pool, and they're making markings and and calculating the calculating the constellations and the movements of the night sky every night. They also had their own zoos where they had birds and animals. Who's this is as that is the Aztecs, yeah, and the Aztecs are standing on the shoulders of giants, right? They're standing on the shoulders of the Toltecs and the teoti buchano Maya. And they learned, I say, learned, basically stole all this knowledge. They were kind of like Rome. They just, they just took what they could from all the cultures and created their own empire out of it. And it worked until the Spanish showed up and disease came with them. The disease is, why? Is why the Americans really fell the city of Tenochtitlan was was, which is the Aztec capital, was miraculous, but they also had gold, which was something that Cortez had not seen in the last three years. Going through Mexico, there is gold in Mexico, but like I was saying earlier, it's very, very deep under the ground. And ancient people weren't, weren't getting that gold. And now there were some areas in the Aztec world where they were eventually mining gold just before the arrival of the Spanish. But a lot of that gold was coming in from off of the coast, from from another, from other tribes who lived very far away off into the ocean from their point of view and and so after Cortez conquers Tenochtitlan in 1521 I think he sends off one of his guys that's underneath him, who is Pizarro. And so Pizarro launches an expedition off the western coast of Mexico into South America. And he's they're just going off of what the Aztecs are telling him from these people who are coming in off the coast and trading stuff. So they follow these trade routes, and they arrive in Ecuador, I think, in South America. And from there, they start basically just conquer, trying to conquer South America, you know, in these dense jungles with snakes and all kinds of diseases, and like the fiercest Native American. You can imagine, with Poison Tip, arrows and and, you know, everything you

Alex Ferrari 1:20:04
Have armor and guns.

Luke Caverns 1:20:06
They don't have armor and gun or swords, but they're, they're hard to fight, though. Oh, yeah. And that in that Indra, no problem. Yeah. And, and so they are tracking down these cities of gold that they've been hearing about in Mexico, just just like the faintest whispers of, yeah, I think, like somewhere far, far away. That's where this gold comes from. Of course, the Aztecs didn't, weren't as familiar with gold as the people that were trading it to them or the Spanish. They both knew what gold was. So Spanish end up in South America, and they're asking, they're asking all these tribes this right here, this we want gold. We want gold. However, they're communicating, you know, through multiple translators. We want gold. We want gold. And all these tribes are telling them, oh yeah, yeah, okay, you leave me alone. But those people, you know, somewhere far down this river, it's there, and over there, it's there, and these people have it, and these people have it. And archeologists look back and they're like, oh well, the natives were just lying to the Spaniards to try to get them just to move on and leave them alone. But when the Spanish they arrived at so many cities, this is a super nuanced conversation, but they arrived at so many cities that they describe as being totally gold plated cities. I mean, some of these places were so wealthy that kings had gauntlets like, like, Thanos gauntlet all the way down to the elbow, and actual functioning fingers plated with gold and masks and clothing that was intertwined with these little pieces of gold paper, almost like they had gold that they had, like, yeah, yeah. And, and so they describe a lot of these cities that they found like that, but for whatever reason, none of them, like lived up to what they were looking for. But they were still taking all this gold. Well, they arrive in the city of Cusco, and a Spanish chronicler there. There were very few Spanish chroniclers that actually took the time to write all this stuff down so that people would know about it in the future. When they arrived in the city of Cusco, they arrived at this place called the Garden of the Gods. And this is the capital of the Inca Empire. And the Garden of the Gods was a garden with, you know, trimmed hedges and bushes and little trees and large trees, and you know, llamas standing in the garden and and birds and birds in the trees, and Little Foxes and all these other animals all made out of gold. All of it was made out of gold. Every single leaf on every single Bush, every tree, the trunk of the tree, was all made out of gold. That one of them, though, so that was the Garden of the Gods, and the outsides of the temple walls were gold plated. Gold was draped over the wall so the sun is shining, and it's just, it's this city of gold. And even on the inside of the temples, you would walk in with these candles, and you know, you walk in with, like, a host of candles to help light up the room, or these ancient, you know, torches and and the insides of the walls will be plated, so the room is just bing, bing, bing, bing, reflecting with gold light. And so the you know, Spanish, take all that and melt it down and send it back to Spain. And then, for some reason, you know, the continue, the continued mystery of, well, where were these Cities of Gold? Just keeps going. They're just looking for more and more and more and more and more. And so the mystery starts to become that, you know, people think that they never found them. Well, they did. They found them and they melted it all down, but there's more out there to this day. Oh yeah, man, I would say, I would say, not even the majority of it has been discovered for sure. So then, after Pizarro conquers the Inca realm, and they they melt down all of the you know people look at the if you've seen Inca sites, they don't have, they don't have iconic imagery that you were that gets burned in your mind, like, Egyptian imagery with the Egyptian headdress that gets burned into your mind. You know what the image of them looks like, the Olmec heads, they have imagery that gets burned in your mind. The Maya as well. You know, like, because sarcophagus people go, well, where's the Inca identity and all of their artwork, it was, it was hammered into gold. So their imagery was in gold and was all melted down. So all we have left is this. All we have left is the architecture that they lived among, which they may or may not have been responsible for it, but they definitely were. If they weren't, who would it be? An even older and even older civilization? That's That's one of those things that these Peruvian civilizations, that's one of the biggest mysteries in the whole world, man, there are stones in Peru that dwarf everything in Egypt. There, Egypt doesn't even come close to the size and weight of stones.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:53
What kind of material, hard stones, again, basalt and granite. So let's go into like. Yeah, like Machu Picchu, when that was discovered. I mean, that's, it's on my bucket list everybody else's bucket list to go to Machu Picchu at one point in their life. The technology to do that is insane. And the stuff that I seen, unlike in Egypt, this is different technology. In Mesoamerica and South America, where it looks like the stones almost were poured into molds because they're so tight. And they're not like, you know, four foot by four foot, four by four foot. They're like all odd shapes, but they fit perfectly together. And from what I understand, because there were some earthquakes, they're not just perfectly together in the front. They go all the way back, yeah, because some of them cracked. You saw that? You like, holy cow. This is So, according to archeologists, is like they signed it down. And the amount of precision that that takes is mind blowing. What's your take on the construction abilities of Mesoamerica and South America, which, as you say, are bigger stones and arguably even more difficult, they're not as precise as Egyptian, to my understanding, the Great Pyramid, nothing. I mean, some of it might be sure, but, like, precise in the sense of, yeah, they're precise here, but they're not, like, aligned to Sure, sure, yeah. They're not perfect proportion, or anything like that. But the preciseness of the build of like a wall or of a temple, it doesn't make an image. You can't stick a hair like you said through it back then, and it's still there 1000 year plus.

Luke Caverns 1:26:48
Yeah, they have blocks. They have blocks that are 12 sided. There 12 sided blocks, 12 sided blocks. Yeah, so it's, I don't even know how to describe it, yeah. I mean, there's a block that's about this big. It's maybe four feet wide, three feet tall, and it has, it is fitted against, yeah, I think zigzag, 10 other blocks, yeah. It says, like a zigzag, yeah. It's, yeah, it's fitted against 10 other blocks. And it has 12 sides, I believe, something along that or 12 different angles on the block. And, yeah, I mean, how do you do that? So there's a theory out there that I don't I don't know that there's scientific evidence, although it makes sense. You know, the geopolymer theory, where people are are pouring the rocks like it's liquid at one point. I I don't think it's that. And I also don't think that it is primitive hand tools chipping away at the blocks. There are legends in South America, a lot of them. I mean, Percy Fawcett, when he was searching for the last city of Z when he was in Bolivia, he heard about this. It also comes from, from Tiwanaku cultures that are in Bolivia. It comes from Inca cultures. And these rumors still even spread 1000 years later. Or people are, you know, indigenous people that live around there are still talking about say or say indigenous, but native people that are recent descendants of these people, they talk about this. And there's even Inca, or possibly pre Inca, roads that go down into the Atacama Desert, which is south of that Inca Peruvian territory, into the deserts of Chile. In those deserts are acid deposits that we know were mined in ancient times, and the stories that come down from the ancient cultures say that there were acids that were mixed with bird poop that were used to soften the stones of the gods, which, you know, are these gigantic stones, and so we don't know how they mined it, yeah, we don't know how they mined it. We don't know how they carried it. We don't know how they applied it and used it. But people say it's possible that the edges of stones were covered in acid so that they could be, like, pushed and moved, kind of like putty, yeah, like, like putty. And then, then they were pushed into place, and they settled along each other. And there's, I think there's some evidence for this, because when you see, if you look at any of the two, so they're also earthquake proof that we think that that's part of the design, yeah, is that that's the reason that they're not straight up and down blocks like, you know, bricks, like we aligned today. They're all these different angles because they lock together and and earthquakes in Peru, big magnitude 10 earthquakes happen every 300 years or so so, and they're still here, and they're still Yeah, and they're still there. And there has been since the time of the conquering of of of the of the Inka world. Yeah, they built, they try to take. Down the these, these pre Columbian walls, and they couldn't do it because they were too big and too heavy, so they just built New Spain on top of it. Yeah. And in 1650 a magnitude eight to 10 earthquake knocked down the whole city, and the walls were still there. They were like. They were like, well, we're gonna have to rebuild it. So they rebuild New Spain on top of the inco walls. And then in 1950 an earthquake knocks it all down. And the walls are still standing there today, and they haven't built anything back on top of them since. So they're locked together. And so if you look in some places, though, during these earthquakes, the blocks have moved by a few inches. You know, one, one block that's on top will kind of slide off of the block underneath it, and the block underneath it will have this lip that comes up, and then it curves down underneath the block. And what it looks like is, when this block was set on top of it, it pushed some of that, it pushed some of that soft stone up. So it creates this lip. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense, or it smooshed it down and it it spills out the end. And we see that on, see that on lots of blocks. And so it also aligns with the legends that bird poop and acid were used to were used to put the stones together.

Alex Ferrari 1:31:08
But has nothing that doesn't explain how they moved it,

Luke Caverns 1:31:11
Doesn't even explain

Alex Ferrari 1:31:12
How they how they quarried it. None of that

Luke Caverns 1:31:15
Well, and there's no explanation for how they mined the acid and carried it and applied it. You know, if it's something that can soften stone, is also going to remove your hand. Yeah, never thought about that. But you're right. I mean, it didn't have, you would, you would put your hand in and pull it out and it beat the bones left on your hand.

Alex Ferrari 1:31:32
I mean, right? Because if it's messing with granite basalt

Luke Caverns 1:31:36
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there's, there's, you know, we don't, it doesn't explain. So, in a way that I was saying that some of the, some of the blocks in the Osirian, you could maybe fit three or four of them in this room. If you took two of the biggest Inca blocks, you could probably fit two of them in this room, like, lot, like long ways, like

Alex Ferrari 1:31:57
That's massive, yeah, those are massive. Think about that, that's crazy. Tonnage is that that must be,

Luke Caverns 1:32:05
There's, there's so many different estimates of tons, 150 to 250 tons

Alex Ferrari 1:32:14
For what's the biggest ones in the Great Pyramid, 8080, yeah, and that's no joke.

Luke Caverns 1:32:20
Yeah, it's no joke. It's no joke 80. I mean, 80 tons is, is

Alex Ferrari 1:32:24
80 tons. Remind me, that's 160,000 pounds. I think so. 2000 pounds per ton.

Luke Caverns 1:32:32
I know that. I know that there is a, I know that there is a, you'll have to remind me what are the stones called. They go on the top of doorways, a lintel. Oh, yeah, yeah. There is a lintel in Machu Picchu that you will when you go to Machu Picchu one day, it'll be, it's in the entrance to the city, I think, and, or it's, you know, when you start going through the tour of the main part of the city, you go underneath this doorway. The lintel on top of the doorway weighs as much as 7 7 7, 47's just the block

Alex Ferrari 1:33:04
Is seven, 7 47's, yeah, yeah. Just as the block

Luke Caverns 1:33:08
The lintel that sits on top of the doorway that covers the doorway, yeah, it's crazy. And it's on top of, it's on top of a steep mountain, right? The mountain is so steep that, gosh, I can't think of the archeologists who quote, unquote, discovered Machu Picchu, Dr Barnhart. He's got a, he's got a hilarious joke about that. He's like, he's like, Yeah, you know all the Victorian and American archeologists come here and they just, and they say, they say, look at the city I discovered with my little friend who showed me where it was exactly. And so, so you have that's funny. And he said, Run along now,

Alex Ferrari 1:33:46
Run along. Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

Luke Caverns 1:33:48
Yeah, I love that's hilarious joke,

Alex Ferrari 1:33:53
Archeological humor. It's very nice here. We're growing in the show, yeah?

Luke Caverns 1:33:57
And that is, I laugh at that every time I think of that. But I forget the name of the archeologist. Now, he's very famous, but when he is going up the when he's going up the mountain, he he and the guys he's the guys in his expedition, are laughing hysterically because they can't climb the mountain. It is that steep. So they're all of the guys he's traveling with are falling like, 10 or 15 feet, and they get to a point that they're just cracking up, like gut busting laughing, because it's so hard to get on top of this mountain. And then they get up there and they see blocks that are the size of this whole wall, that are two to three feet thick. And they're just like, how, how is this on top of this mountain? So that's the question, and that's one example there. There are. There are other Machu Picchu out there that haven't been discovered,

Alex Ferrari 1:34:46
Sure, which was gonna be my next question, because of, is it not radar, but lidar?

Luke Caverns 1:34:53
Yeah, yeah. Light, light, distance and ranging.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:56
So they're now going through the Amazon, and they're just. Governing full cities that are still under under foliage, under under jungle, and they just haven't gotten around to getting there to take it out. It's too hard, or it's too expensive,

Luke Caverns 1:35:10
Yeah, too hard, too expensive. And, you know, there, and you got to think, so they're doing this in particular. They're doing this in Bolivia, in the western Amazon in Bolivia. And then they're doing this in the model Grosso region of Brazil, which, that's where Percy faucet was kind of around and, and, yeah, I mean, they're, they're running LIDAR over remote areas of the jungle and detecting cities. And then, you know, the the country spent all of their government budget on the LiDAR, because it's super expensive. It's not cheap at all, and they're only detecting a small area. So what probably happened was, you have people who fly over the Amazon real low, and who knows what they're doing. But as they're flying over the Amazon, they will notice when the canopy, like the treetops, goes, you know, and they'll go, Oh, that's interesting. They'll fly back late the next time they have to come down, and these are low flying planes, and they'll note certain areas of interest. And they've been doing this for 100 years now, noting little bumps in flat areas of the Amazon that are next to a river, but you can't see below the canopy, and there's no way to get out there. So 100 years later, they come in with Lidar and scan it. Sure enough, there's a city there. And they go, Well, we spent all of our budget on this. Does anyone want to walk 70 miles into the Amazon for I think we can. We can spare like, $10,000 to do it, and there's nobody there who's no that's not enough money for me to go out there. They just don't have the budget to actually get people to go out there.

So, so there could be riches, it could be there are,

There are, there are. And you got to think, you got to think, I'm talking about flying over like it's an easy thing to do. The Amazon is the size of the United States, right? So, okay, so, so the regions where we're finding the cities, are less than 100 miles. I drove 100 miles just to get here, probably maybe like 80 miles to get to the studio. Okay, the sites that they're finding, the the sites that they're finding these cities at, are less than 100 miles from the edge of the jungle, and they're just right in there, relatively easy trip to get into. Imagine, 1000 miles. What's it? What's in there? I mean, we just, they just found you

Alex Ferrari 1:37:30
Can't even, like, airship. I mean, if you got the military involved, I'm sure you can get, like, a bunch of resources set up. Sure, sure, get it. And they could drop in a whole bunch of reading and start cutting and start slicing. But that's obscene amount of money and time and manpower.

Luke Caverns 1:37:45
They do that in Central America, but they don't do that in South America, just because the budgeting is different, like Central America has way more funding, or Central America and Mexico way more funding. They didn't discover. Did you see these reports a couple years ago where they discovered 60,000 pyramids in Guatemala, in one city, 60,000 pyramids using LiDAR,

Alex Ferrari 1:38:08
60 but like different size, little sizes, right?

Luke Caverns 1:38:11
Yeah, some little, some gigantic, you know, but 60,000 pyramids at one in one one city, one city that was 10 miles away from the nearest town into the jungle. That's how that's how difficult it is to find a lost city. So in that jungle, that jungle, oh, I've done, I've done the calculation that jungle, where it is at, is the Amazon is 270 times bigger than that little piece of the jungle in Guatemala. So the Amazon's 270 times bigger than that jungle, where it took until two years ago to discover a lost city 10 miles

Alex Ferrari 1:38:49
So is that also part of the grand design that we're not supposed to get access to some of this stuff before then, because interesting. I mean, you're, you're, you're, it's, so it's, it's basically the, it's the, basically the middle of the ocean. It is, it's essentially, you know, it's, it's a needle in the ocean, essentially, yeah, so there are, it seems like there's natural barriers to knowledge that we keep running into. Now those, those barriers are starting to break open a little bit. But like, little by little, little by little, like, because we're able to then go deeper into the ocean, maybe understand the oceans are absolute mystery. We know more about space than we know about the ocean. I mean, seriously, there's things in the ocean that we still don't even understand, because we can't go that low. We can't go that deep. It's a It's so far deep, it's so far gone that we can't literally go down there where the Hubble and the and the other telescopes are showing us things, you know, millions of light years away, and we don't have that kind of information for it. So there seems to be a natural barrier. And there seems to be a natural barrier all around us. There's a barrier of space where we really, you. We arguably can't really travel in space. We're talking about Mars, and that's a challenge, but we've been there. We've dropped a few things off, so on and so forth. But there's barriers. I think that's a natural design. The reason why we can't jump from planet to planet right now, because we're not ready to same thing with the Amazon right now. Like there's a natural barrier to the information that we can gain from these lot. Can you imagine what might be there? Well, just knowledge wise, not even our artifacts and riches. Yeah, that's a given. But imagine someone wrote a whole bunch of stuff down and they happen to have it in a place where it's been safe.

Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you this. So right in, right in this, in this area of the motto grocer, region of Brazil, where Percy Fawcett Lost City of Z that he was looking for. How's that movie? By the way, to Awesome. Is it good? Yeah. It depicts the everybody should watch it, because the the music. I won't, I won't over explain it, but it's stunwell. It gives you the feeling of what, the wonder of exploring the jungle for something that's greater than ourselves. It gives you that feeling,

Yeah, and again, is in that look that sounds like an analogy of a spiritual journey.

Luke Caverns 1:41:25
Oh, he was on, he was on a spiritual journey. There's, there's absolutely no doubt about that. He was, he was visiting, he was, he was very skeptical, but he was constantly visiting with people who were, you know, supposedly claimed to be channeled channels.

Alex Ferrari 1:41:41
Yeah, tell me about that. You were talking about that. What is that? What is that? What do you mean? What's that connection?

Luke Caverns 1:41:43
Yeah. So, you know when, when you're going to these indigenous Yeah? Well, this with indigenous people. And there's also, you know, the first people that arrive at a newly found European city in Brazil 100 years ago, the people that are living there are going to be kind of out there people who are, you know, they're either extremely brave people trying to go there to, you know, to build a new life for themselves, or they're kind of outcasts from Europe that are looking for a new opportunity. And so in there you're gonna find people who claim to be like oracles and channels and people who are suckers and stuff like that, hucksters, yeah, you're gonna find stuff like that there. And so he has nothing else to do when he's in South America, sitting at, sitting at this, you know, little town. And so he's at the, he's at this, you know, pub, or whatever, and or this bar, and there's a psychic over there, yeah, he's like, Okay, I'll just go talk to the psychic. And the psychic would know who he was, what he was doing, that he was searching for a lost city, and the psychic would tell him things about the lost city that was there, and these psychics that were that he claimed were just these people who didn't seem like they knew that they weren't very highly educated. People would be talking to him about Atlantis in a lost city off the coast of South America, and that the survivors of Atlantis retreated deep into the Amazon and started civilization in South America. Good, the story that we were just talking about. And, yeah. And, I mean, this is all, this is all real. I mean, he really experienced and heard these things. And so the movie, no, well, no, no, there's a scene in touch about, there's a scene during World War One. So he went and fought in World War One. And, and he was a hero of World War One, actually. And there is a, there isn't a psychic that comes to, you know, I mean, the military will, like, pay for some psychic to come and visit all the boys to keep morale up and entertain everybody and, and they all are like, they're like, oh, you should speak to this guy who's an explorer. That's, that's one of our majors, or one of our captains. And so they go track him down, and he comes and just entertains the psychic. Sure enough, the psychic knew who that he was an explorer, and he was looking for a city in the jungle, in the Amazon, and she kind of, who knows if she was playing into it.

Alex Ferrari 1:43:49
So this is so there's a lot of that story, a lot of connection with channels and psychics, yeah, yeah. I mean, on his journey,

Luke Caverns 1:43:56
Yeah. I don't know how much we don't really know how much he believed it. Oh no, but they're there. But yeah, yeah, oh yeah. It's, it's like decorated all through his story is that he was meeting with these people and oracles and those kind of things, yeah, yeah, and so and so he started, well, we think that maybe he was, at least, at the very least, he was interested in the idea of, oh, people are saying there's this lost Atlantis civilization that ended up in the Amazon.

Alex Ferrari 1:44:22
You want to hear something, you want to hear something that's funny that I actually have, I had on the show an academic, Michael Laflem, who's an academic, thank you for that name. Yeah. He wrote a book about Atlantis on the shelf here somewhere, and he actually not only went through the normal route of academia. But then he started going through the esoteric and he's like, what, you know, what? There's this kid in the 1800s who just started channeling about Atlantis, and this kid was uneducated and all this, and it just starts telling the story. So they wrote a book about he wrote a book about Atlantis 18 year old, like or 12 year old. 15 year old kid or whatever it was. It was in the 1800s uneducated, middle of the Kansas somewhere like no connection to anything. Never could have had access to any book about Plato or anything. He just starts laying all this stuff. So then he starts going down the route of of psychics, mediums, channeled information about Atlantis, and connecting the dots between the channeled information and the historical information, and then starting to paint a picture of all of it. And it's pretty fascinating that I wonder if there's going to be more brave souls who are going to start looking at the esoteric knowledge base of a lot of this stuff, because believe or don't believe relevant, is the information something you could use? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just like, just like your boy there, yeah, no. I mean, it's fascinating. It is really fascinating. But there's, I've spoken to a lot of channels and psychics, about Atlantis, about Lumeria, and about, you know, that time, and what caused it, and where did they go and, and a lot of them tell me things, I'm like, What is, what it's like? What was the politics like? What were, what was the technology like? Oh, this, this, this, it's just fascinating. So it's, it's interesting. I mean, if they're not connecting to something. They are very good storytellers. Yeah, very, very good.

Luke Caverns 1:46:25
Yeah. He so he would come across these, these oracles that would tell him things. And he, at the very least, he became interested in the possibility that, you know, oh, you know, maybe this Atlantis place that they tell me about, these survivors of Atlantis are in the City of Z that I'm looking for. And so, you know that would kind of convict him and give him a little bit more of a push. You know that maybe, well, we have to watch a movie we don't know. No, I'll just tell you. I will just tell you he goes on a final journey in 1925 and disappears into the Amelia Earhart, yep, and yeah, he disappears into the jungle. And he disappears in in a region on the zingu River in the model Grosso region of Brazil. And so they launch, there's 100 people, 100 explorers die searching for him. Over the next died looking for Yeah, yeah. Over the next five to 10 years, 100 100 explorers follow behind them and die. And about 70 years later, there is a guy named Michael heckenberger who is a an archeologist living alongside the zingu River amongst these local tribes, and he is doing research on on ancient cultures just in that area, not be necessarily because of Percy faucet, but I'm sure he was well acquainted. And after 13 years of living down there, he found a city right next to where he was living. For it took him 13 years to find a city right next to him, and it's called kui kugo, that's named after the local village that he was staying in and and so they've excavated the site. It's a huge site. They think that there could have been how long, how long was this? So they think, they think it lines up right with the height of, like, classical ancient America. Which classical ancient America tends to begin around 200 ad, all the way up to the time of the Spanish and it's just like, cut off, you know, because disease and everything. But they think that the height of it was around 800 ad, which pretty much that pretty much fits the rest of of ancient America as well. And they they think that it was a city that could have had around 25,000 to 50,000 people living there, which is very significant, especially for the ancient Americas. And it was bigger than all of that. One city was bigger and more sophisticated in their architectural engineering than any site in Western Europe at 800 ad goes it was bigger than, bigger than anything. Well, well, so Rome is, we're, you know, Rome is kind of falling off. So 800 ad, we're now in the dark ages, you know?

Alex Ferrari 1:49:13
Oh, that's true, yeah, that's right, Rome fell off, yeah.

Luke Caverns 1:49:15
So Rome is an eclipse. You know, when Rome falls off, it begins to fall off from 476, AD,

Alex Ferrari 1:49:20
That's when I became the Roman Catholic Church. Yeah.

Luke Caverns 1:49:22
So it begins, it begins to fall off. You know, you have the time of, like, the Byzantine Sure. So it begins to fall off. And when you hit the Dark Ages, we don't, we don't even reach the height of Rome for like, another 1000 years after the fall of Rome. If we call around 500 AD, the fall of Rome, 1500s

Alex Ferrari 1:49:40
Yeah, when we got those getting back up, yeah, yeah.

Luke Caverns 1:49:43
So by 800 AD, the height of the world was actually in the Americas, but, you know, the other people didn't know it, which is, like, that's mind blowing to think about when Rome fell off. The rest of the world falls in the dark ages, and there's some Islamic empires that are, like, roaring but other than that, it's in.

Alex Ferrari 1:50:00
How about the Asians? Africans?

Luke Caverns 1:50:03
Africa. No, you know, I mean, you have, you have, you have some things going on in Africa. You have the Mali Empire. But I want to say the Mali Empire is like 14, 1500s so that's kind of like back when civilization is picking up again. I'm not an expert in China or anything like that, but I think, I think the general idea is, is that America was, yeah, Rome falls off, and then the Americas are roaring, and the Americas are like, on top of the world, basically, even though the other side of the world exists, yeah, so, so at 800 ad, this site of Kui KU is the biggest site, maybe not in the world, but it's one of the biggest sites in the world at that time. And time. And then we don't really know what happens to the site of Kui KU but it took Michael heckenberger 13 years of living right next to it to discover it. Then they found a site called yanos de mohos in in Bolivia, which is just west of of kui kugo in another region that Percy Fawcett estimated, or said it was one of his guest sites of, according to all the indigenous people he had been hearing from, that was one of the places that he thought that his lost city Z would be in, and he may have been headed that direction on this last expedition, but we don't really know, because he didn't tell anybody exactly where he was going. Because, you know, you're searching for a city you don't want to don't want another Explorer to find it first, of course. So Janos de Mojos blows everything out of the water. It's got two gigantic step pyramids. It's got astronomically And geometrically aligned into buildings, yes, but in a different way, like, it's wider, it's wider. Yeah, it's wider, and I don't think it's as tall, but, yeah, it's wider.

Alex Ferrari 1:51:47
It's wider because, yeah, Chichen, it says wide, it's big, but it's not, like, Great Pyramid, big,

Luke Caverns 1:51:52
Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's it's wider, but I don't think it's taller. And you've got two of them, and you have raised plazas. So like, a raised Plaza is, imagine you take a pyramid and you stretch it out, you do that on four sides, and then in the middle, the middle of it is raised up. So people come up, and they come down into a into a central plaza, and that's where they that's where they gather and everything. And then you can sit on the sides like an arena. So if there's a performance or a festival or something, in the middle,

Alex Ferrari 1:52:18
Is this, and this is, Are people allowed to go there yet or not yet.

Luke Caverns 1:52:22
I don't know how you would get there. You I mean, you would have to know a team of archeologists willing to take

Alex Ferrari 1:52:27
It's not like a Chichen. It's already,

Luke Caverns 1:52:29
Heck no, you can't just know this is in the jungle. Yeah, yeah. I think yeah. Yanos de mohos is excavated in the way that the trees are cut down so that people can go out there. And so archeologists gonna go out there and work, but that's that's really about it. And so, so actually, no, no, I'm sorry that is not correct. I'm thinking of Kui Ku yanos de mohos people have been there. Some trees are cut down, but it's not that vast because it's so deep into the jungle. But they have gone around with they've gone around and mapped some of it on foot, and as they've done more and more LiDAR, they have found highways that are in the city. Because it's almost impossible to see it when you're there on foot, it just feels like you're walking over little hills. Because, I mean, if you look at the city of Ephesus, like the Greek city of Ephesus, their amphitheater is not visible before it was excavated. It's just the side of the hill, like the marble staircases, are covered in soil this thick from 1500 years, true of sitting there just 1500 years, it's soil this thick. Hap you know, six inches of soil. So, so they're walking around this site, and then they shoot more and more and more lighter on it. They find not one, but two, giant step pyramids, multiple plazas, multiple house mound buildings around, I say house mounds. They're like, they're like house they're like mound neighborhoods. It's this big mound that's raised up off of the earth, and they they're farming right below it, but you would have had giant neighborhoods of wood and thatch houses living on top of it. Now I say giant, I mean giant. And I'll tell you in a second, they had highways that were 100 feet wide, raised 10 meters off of the ground, and go over 100 miles straight off into the jungle that they know connected, made of what just, just the earth, like they lifted up the earth off of the ground, like it'd be like you and I going outside and gathering dirt, like building a ditch and then gathering other dirt to raise 100 foot wide, 100 miles more than that. Jeez. Yeah, they and it's in a straight line, and they know that it goes to other cities exactly like this, but it's so far off in the jungle. How do you even follow it? You know, it's not like you can just scan LIDAR over it, because you can't even see the LIDAR until it's processed. So you would have to get on that road and walk it through the jungle. But you're not doing that, and it's like impossible to still follow the road. You need LIDAR just to see it, because it's so grown over. But from doing that, and from excavating tombs, and there's various other ways that they estimate the population. In size. They estimate that the population of that city was 1 million people.

Alex Ferrari 1:55:06
In what year?

Luke Caverns 1:55:07
Uh, around 800 ad,

Alex Ferrari 1:55:09
So 880 how many people are in Europe? In London,

Luke Caverns 1:55:12
Not 100 not Not, not a million, not America. Yeah, yeah. Well, to give you, to give you an idea, under Augustus, at the height of Rome, its population was 1 million people. And so they estimate 1 million people were at this site of yanos de Mojos. And that site is like 30 miles into the jungle, you know. So, so you have this whole Amazon here. This is like that far into into it. All of this right here is still unexplored territory. And you have, you have roads going over 100 miles into the Amazon. So I guarantee you, it's a web of these cities. And the reason that all these explorers are going through and hearing all these legends of there's a gold city that way. There's a gold city that way, because there really was, because El Dorado was all of South America, like it was not one city. It's all of South America. Eldorado was literally everywhere. And what's amazing is, even archeologists, I have said this, like on Twitter, I've said this, you know, people ask me, What do you think about El Dorado? I'm like, it was all of South America. I think if, as they continue to excavate Kui KU and they find, like, the main tombs or the main palace, they're gonna find gold there. And these are places that the Spanish didn't even know about. There's the majority of South America was untouched by the Spanish. There's even some significant Machu Picchu. The Spanish never knew that it existed. Yeah, it was, yeah, so. But when they found it, none of those gold idols that the that the Inca had were there. None of that was there. They found some pottery, but all the gold was gone. So where that went? I don't know, but, um, there's a lot of there's a lot of mystery, man. Um, so, but when I say that, you know, El Dorado wasn't just one city that people were looking for in Ecuador, because it comes from Ecuador and Colombia. Actually, I think Colombia, um, El Dorado wasn't just one city, it was all of South America. And then I'll have archeologists, you know, scoff at that, and they're like, Oh, this guy talking about El Dorado, South America, blah blah dude, I am complimenting the ancient cultures of South America and saying that they were all amazing. They were all spectacular. Goldsmith the treasure was everywhere. It still is everywhere. But even today, 500 years after the arrival of the Spaniards in the Americas, it's still almost impossible to get to those cities, and

Alex Ferrari 1:57:29
It's gonna probably be another few 100 years before we get through all of it, if that

Luke Caverns 1:57:33
Well, that city I was telling you about in Guatemala, where the 60,000 buildings were discovered, the arche the first, you know, major archeologist, ahead of the excavations out there, he said it'll be 200 years before they learn everything about that city. Oh, just that city. Just that city.

Alex Ferrari 1:57:49
So we're looking at three to 500 years, yeah, if not more, yeah, as we, as we move forward on that so it's interesting how much, how much barrier there is to this information and to these to these artifacts through the jungle, because the jungle is as difficult, if not more, depending than the ocean is, and the vastness of it and the complex complexity to get to it,

Luke Caverns 1:58:15
It might, it Honestly might be more difficult and some ways more dangerous, you know,

Alex Ferrari 1:58:23
Oh yeah, oh yeah, much more. I mean, the only thing, the only danger you have in the ocean is, is the pressure, really deep ocean. There's not a lot of, you know, sea monsters out there, yeah, where we would be going to go down into that world. I want to ask you one last question. I want to get your opinion on this man, Antarctica, Antarctica, Antarctica. Man, yeah, I gotta believe that there's something there, that there were people there at one point or another in this last 200,000 years, the polls have shifted. They have shifted that's, that's, that's science. So the poll at one point Antarctica was flush, and had animals, had had foliage, had fauna, had everything at one point. And then when the pole shifted, it turned into what it turned into, what do you think about what they're we haven't, I've seen the pyramid, yeah, which are like, is it a pyramid, or is it just like a really sharp Yeah, it look, it looks kind of pyramid, sure, sure. No question. But what do you think is there? And is there any any archeological, any discoveries there that I haven't heard about, that you guys have heard about, or just out of just pure theory, what do you think we could find there? Do you believe that there's something there to be found.

Luke Caverns 1:59:40
I will say that I don't think there's, I really don't think there's any archeology even done on Antarctica. You know, we that we know about, that we know. Yeah, you know, there's no official records of man. I don't think there's any official records of archeological surveys in Antarctica. In the Falkland Islands, we know that there were people, you know, that's just north of Antarctica in the Falkland Islands, which is like a barren wasteland. We know that there were ancient people living there, and that's not that far of a jump from Antarctica. You know, if 200,000 years ago there were people there, it's possible, you know, that they were on the coastlines. And I think I I'm not sure when, but several 10s of 1000s of years ago, I think that the I think that the ice, they have evidence that the ice did not fully cover the ground of Antarctic maps, yeah, yeah. Well, the maps, yeah, yeah. They, they say that the period Reese map may depict the may depict a un on snow covered or ice covered coastline. But then I saw, I saw a very compelling, a very compelling presentation by someone I'm very close with, Johanna James, if you've heard of her, she did, she did a really good presentation the other day. And she's, she's even more like alternative open minded than I am, but she kind of debunked the period Rees map and and showed how projections of cartographers 500 years ago could make South America look like it was Antarctica. And it was really, really cool thing. Anyways, that doesn't matter, but I think that there could have been ancient people living in in Antarctica. The other, the thing that I think compels me the most to wonder if there's something to think, you know, perhaps there really is something significant. There is, you know, some of the smartest scientists of the 1940s were launching secret expeditions down there while they were trying to conquer the rest of Europe as well, you know. So, oh, the Germans were there, yeah, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 2:01:46
I mean, I think, well, there still are go. There are governments there. I mean, there are outposts out there, yeah, US is there? China's there, Russia's there, and they're in their different areas. There was supposedly a pact that no one owns Antarctica until the ice all melts and there's a lot of land there, sure, then there's gonna be some fighting, yeah? But that's the only thing that I understand, that there are military bases and other things like that there, yeah, but no one's talked about anything that they found there.

Luke Caverns 2:02:12
No, there has to be something there. Have there has to be so, you know another thing, another thing is, if, if there were animals there, which there definitely were once upon a time. Ah, man, I would love to be able to pull back the ice of Antarctica, pull back the ocean. Yeah, gosh, you got to think what kind of what kind of species must be buried under the ground in Antarctica, even going back as far as you know, Pangea and the dinosaurs, like, you know, there

Alex Ferrari 2:02:43
What was there, because during that time that definitely was not ice.

Luke Caverns 2:02:46
No, no, I want to say Antarctica. During the time of Pangea, Antarctica was like the lower center portion of Pangea, and it was tropical, I believe. And so, I mean

Alex Ferrari 2:02:56
There has to be something there.

Luke Caverns 2:02:57
Oh, I bet you there's all I bet you there. I very much envy the human beings that will get to, you know, discover what was, discover what was there in, who knows how many 1000s of years from now. But if we're even around by then,

Alex Ferrari 2:03:10
Is there a possibility that the polls shift quickly?

Luke Caverns 2:03:13
I've seen people say this. I've even seen people throw around the idea of a pole shift happening during the Younger Dryas, like, just 12,000 years ago. Although I don't know, you know if there was a pole shift 12,000 years ago, I don't even know if we would recover from that even now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that would be like,

Alex Ferrari 2:03:35
Like, if the North Pole was Hawaii all of a sudden,

Luke Caverns 2:03:39
Oh, if the North Pole is Hawaii, you and I are washed away by the ocean. Like, if it happened right now, you and I are washed away by the ocean in like, 15 minutes, right?

Alex Ferrari 2:03:50
No, no. If there's like a, yeah, that doesn't happen, but, yeah. But let's say within a, let's say 100 year term. Okay, okay, I'm not saying tomorrow. It's not day after tomorrow, but let's say over 100 like it's starting now, and it's slowly moving in 100 years from now, Hawaii, because weather is acting really funky lately. I'm not saying sure polls are shifting, but let's say something like that happens, and all of a sudden Hawaii is the North Pole. Interesting. And Antarctica would be melted, yeah, that water, all that water, would come in, the sea levels would rise. Florida's gone. New York is New York is coming. California's gone, yeah, all it's all gone. And that's the majority of Austin might be gone. Um, Austin, there's a really good chance that Austin's is not here. I mean, if not, I got great beachfront property, yeah, that's basically where we're at. I mean, Colorado will be fine, and the interior of the United States will be fine, but the majority of the population of the of the United States would be, would be dead, yeah, would be gone overall. I mean, if it happens quickly over a slow portion, I think people would start moving. But. Yeah, it's fascinating to theorize this, and I'm just saying this to see, like, what would Antarctica give us? Like, what's there, man, dude, imagine if there are ancient civilizations that are that's where the 100,000 Year ancient civilization is the one that you and I have no understanding of, and that their pyramids done, and there's other archeological cities or underground caverns, like they have in Turkey or something like that. And maybe there's some sort of technology that's been frozen down there from back then. I'm not saying, Yeah, ray guns, but, like, whatever that is, man,

Luke Caverns 2:05:32
I imagine I would love to take a chunk of Antarctic soil and, like, pull it up. You know, you know,

Alex Ferrari 2:05:39
They've done that they have. They done, oh yeah. They've done,

Luke Caverns 2:05:42
Okay, okay,

Alex Ferrari 2:05:43
Well, I've been doing four samples. They've been doing core samples down there for a while.

Luke Caverns 2:05:46
What do they find?

Alex Ferrari 2:05:46
Yeah, they find, from what I understand, that they find that there has been a lot of stuff that's happened over the course of the last hundreds of 1000s of years. Because they're seeing how where the the heat was. It's kind of like tree rings. You can kind of see where you are in time through it. I'm not an expert in it by any stretch, but I know that they have found stuff in the cores that they go so far down that when they pull it up, they could just start seeing the timeline of weather, interesting, of how, where the ice is getting, what, when it was colder, when it was warmer, all that kind of stuff. I'm not sure that they found animal remains or anything like that.

Luke Caverns 2:06:25
Oh, hey, I bet you, man, if we could melt Antarctica, all the all the ice off of it, you know, without destroying the entire planet. There are, there are, there are island chains and different areas of Canada where you have these northern winds, you know, so you have these mountain sides, and you have the northern winds sweeping up this mountainside, and you know the other which makes this side much colder than this side. And when wooly mammoths and ancient megafauna would die and fall over on the side of that on the side of that mountain that the northern wind is constantly hitting them. They froze, and they have been sitting there for 10,000 years, perfectly preserved in the way that they are so much so when you walk up to the wooly mammoth carcass, the fur is still blowing in the wind. You know, it's that well preserved.

Alex Ferrari 2:07:15
It's kind of like the mummies of Peru or something like in the desert in Chile or so you don't want to talk about, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're stuck in there in the desert, and they're just like, yes, yeah. They look so dry that, yeah, yeah.

Luke Caverns 2:07:27
Well, and they found some of them, like, they found a little girl like this, and these, uh, I don't know, I forget who the explorers were, but they come up and they're like, like, hello, hello. And they're like, you know, going through, going through the cold, like, the ice cold winds. And they come up and they, you know, tapping on this girl, trying to get her attention. She's been dead for 500 years. That's crazy. That's great.

Alex Ferrari 2:07:47
Well, I mean, yeah, the and that was the thing that Randall Carson and Graham Hancock were talking about, that that some of the wooly mammoths and stuff that they found, they they found what they were eating like they died midway through a meal. Yeah? So that means that was fast, whatever. Oh, yeah, kill them was fast. Yeah. So if something hit the planet, like a younger dryers, or something that was a massive melting, which, again, is the flood, the flood, the flood myth, or the flood story, that makes a whole lot of sense. Yeah? I mean, it's, it's fascinating, man,

Luke Caverns 2:08:20
Well, and that's what I was saying, is they're probably mountainsides in Antarctica, as Antarctica is moving down, you know, moving down and becoming and becoming, you know, the, I guess, the South Pole, moving away from Pangea, whatever, you know, during the Cambrian period, Jurassic Period, blah, blah, blah, everything Is living there. I guarantee you, I guarantee you, that there are probably species that are perfectly preserved underneath that mile thick layer of ice, absolutely just encapsulated by ICE, that if we could pull it back, we'd see a, I don't know what two 50 million year old giant lizard, you know

Alex Ferrari 2:09:00
Or wooly mammoth or T Rex,

Luke Caverns 2:09:01
They're there. I guarantee they're there.

Alex Ferrari 2:09:05
Yeah, species that we've never even thought about or seen. I mean, it's Look man, this conversation, as well as our first one has just for me, it's created more questions. That's a good conversation.

Luke Caverns 2:09:20
Whenever I give live presentations, uh, what do I I usually have an intro that's something like that, something like, you know, most, most presentations and lectures like this, they sit you down and they explain to you, you know, the mysteries of a certain culture or this topic, and then they explain it to you. And I always start off with, I'm not going to do any of that. I'm not going to answer one question throughout this 50 minute lecture. You were going to leave here with twice as many questions as you came in with. There's just so many. Every answer spawns 10 new questions. You know

Alex Ferrari 2:09:54
And I found that to be the case in everything I talk about on the show, from spirituality to the other. Side to ancient mysteries, all of it, it just, it's never ending. You spend multiple lives, yeah, multiple we've probably have you and I have spent other lifetimes, answering, trying to answer, these questions, Another World, probably another time left like, you know, figuring things out. There's a reason why you're probably drawn to ms America and South America, as opposed to African Yeah. You know, there's a reason why I love ancient India and I'm drawn to, like, Japanese culture and Asian cultures. There's certain things that just are drawn to by by nature, for no reason. There's, like, no reason. The second you saw the Troy, you were like, That's it. That's what I want to do. You know, for me, it was watching et, and I was like, oh, I want to be, I want to be a movie.

Luke Caverns 2:10:48
Another thing was, my parents had a, they had a chichnita, you know, they're magnet collectors of everywhere. And they had a, they had a chichnita magnet from like 1995 and it was right at eye level for most of my teenage life. And so it was right at eye level on the fridge. And every day I would go and open that fridge and I'd look at this blue pyramid. And I mean, every single day, you know, multiple times a day, and and that, like, ingrained something in my brain that I became obsessed with pyramids and ancient history. You know, it's

Alex Ferrari 2:11:21
They were planning it, sir, I'm sorry, they programmed you, sir. Probably some question, yeah, look. Man, it has been such a pleasure talking to you and on the show. Man, can you please tell everybody where they can find you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Luke Caverns 2:11:36
Yeah man, so you can just find me anywhere my through my name, whether it's YouTube, Instagram, Tiktok, whatever, just Luke Caverns, Luke Cavern, and we talked a bit about the Olmecs earlier. By the time this comes out, I've officially announced I'm leading an Olmec tour at the end of the year that people can travel with me to by the end of the tour, it's gonna be called megalithic Mexico. But it's also a it's also an Olmec tour. At the end of the tour, you love seeing every single Olmec head and every single Olmec statue, as well as all of the other megaliths in Mexico, because they're all kept in these specific really, really, most of them are kept in these really, really nice museums, gigantic museums, and I'm going to be taking a group of people there for about eight days this December, so that'll probably be announced by the time this episode comes out. So you guys feel free to join me,

Alex Ferrari 2:12:27
Brother, I appreciate you and everything you're doing to help awaken the planet and finding out about our ancient mystery. So I appreciate you, bro,

Luke Caverns 2:12:35
Yeah, man, I'll wear a different shirt next time I come on.

Alex Ferrari 2:12:38
Appreciate you man, thanks.