The MAINSTREAM is HIDING THE TRUTH About the Great Pyramids’ TRUE Ancient Builders! with Luke Caverns

In a world where the mysteries of ancient civilizations beckon, today’s episode brings you the enigmatic and fascinating Luke Caverns. A seeker of lost histories and hidden truths, Luke’s journey into the depths of ancient Egypt’s secrets unfolds with an electrifying resonance that echoes through the corridors of time.

Luke Caverns begins by sharing a vivid memory from his childhood, a moment that ignited his passion for ancient history. As a young boy, he was banished to his room while his parents entertained guests, but the distant sound of swords clashing and ancient armies battling in a movie captivated his imagination. This initial spark led him down a path filled with the rich stories of his ancestors, antiquarians, and treasure hunters, fueling his insatiable curiosity about the past.

In our discussion, Luke Caverns delves into the mysterious Olmec heads of Mexico, emphasizing how the elements have eroded these ancient artifacts over thousands of years. He draws parallels to the Great Pyramid of Giza, questioning how such structures could have withstood millennia if they were as old as some theories suggest. Luke’s insights challenge the conventional timeline, urging us to reconsider the history we’ve been taught.

One of the most captivating moments comes when Luke recounts his grandfather’s adventures in New Mexico, where he discovered the legendary seven lost gold mines. This tale of exploration and discovery runs deep in Luke’s veins, passed down through generations. It’s a legacy that has profoundly shaped his worldview and fueled his quest to uncover the hidden truths of our ancient past.

As we traverse through Luke’s anecdotes, he speaks passionately about the challenges facing modern archaeology. He describes the resistance from mainstream archaeologists who cling to established narratives, often dismissing new evidence that contradicts their views. “We’re not really at all in a place where we can definitively say what was and wasn’t happening some 12,000 years ago,” he states, underscoring the vast unknowns that still shroud our understanding of ancient civilizations.


  1. The Eternal Quest for Knowledge: Luke’s journey is a testament to the relentless human spirit in seeking knowledge and understanding. His stories remind us that our quest for truth is ongoing and that every discovery opens new doors to the past.
  2. The Power of Ancestral Legacy: Luke’s connection to his family’s history highlights the powerful influence of our ancestors. Their experiences and stories shape our identity and fuel our passions, urging us to continue their legacy.
  3. Challenging Conventional Narratives: Luke’s willingness to question established historical timelines encourages us to maintain an open mind. In the pursuit of truth, it’s essential to embrace new evidence and perspectives, even when they challenge long-held beliefs.

As we near the end of this profound conversation, Luke reflects on the complex and sophisticated nature of the Great Pyramid. He theorizes about the advanced technology and knowledge that ancient Egyptians might have possessed, knowledge that has been lost to time but hints at a civilization far more advanced than we can imagine. Luke’s insights inspire a sense of wonder and curiosity about our history, urging us to look beyond the surface and explore the depths of human civilization.

In conclusion, our discussion with Luke Caverns is a journey through time, a quest to uncover the secrets of our ancestors and understand the profound legacies they’ve left behind. Luke’s stories and insights challenge us to rethink our history and remain open to the endless possibilities of human civilization.

Please enjoy my conversation with Luke Caverns.

Go deeper down the mystical rabbit hole by downloading the Next Level Soul App for FREE

Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast

Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 464

Luke Caverns 0:00
There are actually bigger Olmec heads that are made out of limestone that have been rained on for 3000 years. And it's like a, it's like the face melted off the front of it. So the pyramids would look like they've been melting if they were there 12,000 years ago being rained on until Egypt turns dry. The Great Pyramid is the one that is aligned to TrueNorth perfectly. No, we're just so disconnected from this outer world that exist around this that I'm kind of getting off in the loo now, but this is the you know, this is the time to talk about that. But yeah, I think that there are, I think that there's definitely a natural energy that people connect to.

Alex Ferrari 0:42
I'd like to welcome to the show, Luke Caverns. How you doing Luke?

Luke Caverns 0:55
I'm doing awesome, man. Thank you so much for having me on.

Alex Ferrari 0:57
Oh, thank so much for driving all the way over here. To come into the studio, man. Because we originally were going to do this on Zoom. And I'm like, where do you are? You're not that far away from me. Just Yes. Come on over. We'll do a sit down, man. So I appreciate you making the trip out here, man.

Luke Caverns 1:12
Yeah, well, it took us a couple of times, having to re scheduled the podcast. But uh, yeah, I'm glad that the first time we're doing this is in person and it's a real treat to be here and see your studio and meet you. And yeah, it's for people watching. It's pretty amazing to see somebody start a virtual, you know, podcast and move to in person. It's, it's such a leap that I just want to publicly acknowledge, amazing.

Alex Ferrari 1:39
Thanks so much, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, I've been been hustling for a long time with this man. So I appreciate those words. But I wanted to have you on the show, man. Because your your take on ancient mysteries, lost history, ancient Civilizations is super, super cool. I like to geek out about that. So we're gonna go deep down multiple rabbit holes in this conversation. Because you're all you came all the way out here. So we're gonna just go into it and and go at it. So I got to ask you, what was the first? What was the thing that got you interested going down this road of ancient civilizations, ancient mysteries, because it's not the most lucrative of professions if, if archaeologists tell us the truth, sure, yeah. Unless you're Grave Digger or grave robbers. Yeah. And you're Indiana Jones. And that's a different conversation.

Luke Caverns 2:24
Yeah, that can that can be profitable. It's not deadly. So my earliest, it's been interesting, you know, going down this path, I haven't, I hadn't really taken much time to sit and think about how the journey has played out until I started coming on podcast, and I had to talk about it. And so I've spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, what am I what are some of my first memories of falling in love with ancient history, I actually think that the very first memory that I have, is maybe 2005. And my parents are having over some of their some of their friends. And they basically banish me to my room, and they're having some of their friends over to watch movie they banished me to my room. And they say, you know, the movie we were watching, it's not appropriate, you go in and watch Star Wars on VHS and, and I remember I'm sitting there watching Attack of the Clones on VHS and my little, you know, old box TV. And, and I hear this like thunderous sound of swords clashing, and people yelling in the next room. And like my parents, my dad had a theater room. So when the bass would rumble, it would shake the house a little bit. And so I open up the door, and I look and I see this, I see this just battle scene of these two ancient armies clashing against each other. And so I walk up and there was there's a glass door to the theater room, and I walk up and I'm not supposed to, there were tons of movies I wasn't supposed to watch but and so I walk up and I'm sitting outside this glass door, and all I hear is this low rumbling coming through the doors. And I'm just watching these two ancient armies go at each other. And I it's just a very visceral memory that I have. I've never seen anything like that. And maybe it was the fact that my parents were telling me I couldn't watch it. And, and so I sit down on the floor outside of the outside of the theater room, and I watch like two and a half hours of this movie without really hearing much of it at all. And I don't know, I think just the imagery, like so many people throughout the last two 3000 years that were obsessed with the ancient past before them. Something about it just resonated with me deeply. And then even from the time that I was a little kid. It was like the it was like something in the ancient world was calling out to me and like grabbing my heart, and I never lost it. On top of that, as I started getting older, my dad would tell me more about his dad and his grandfather and his great grandfather, all of which Were antiquarian and amateur archaeologists and treasure hunters in the American Southwest. And so they spent, they made their money in oil of which we don't have any of that money now, but they made all their money in oil. And basically, they use that oil money to fund expedition searching for lost Spanish gold and lost Native American treasures. And my grandfather, on my dad's side, he discovered the seven last gold mines of New Mexico, it's like a, it's like a big legend in, in New Mexico. And then probably, I want to say 70 years before that, in the 1890s. My great, great, great grandfather is involved. If you pick up a book that's like the legends of Texas, there's one called The Bill Kelly mine, and it's about it's about the four Reagan brothers since that's my paternal last name. And those four brothers, one of which is my great, great, great great grandfather get caught in this 60 year treasure hunt for this last Spanish gold. That's that's down in the canyons of Big Ben. And so I just grew up hearing these stories and and in the end, there was a gold mine operation that exploded and somebody died and they lost all their wealth and and my dad was born in the fallout of that poverty that came afterwards. So my dad did not pick up the fascination for ancient history and exploration, my dad just had to climb his way out of really bad life. I picked up the fascination through my dad. So I guess that was sort of in my blood, even though I didn't know any of those guys, but it just I kind of ruminated on, you know, what my forefathers had done before me. And that kind of inspired the sense of oh, man, I want to do something like that, be an explorer and discover ancient things. I have a whole bunch of Native American artifacts that they discovered. In a in a box in North Carolina, where my parents are at, on my mom's side, my grandpa, he was a traveling missionary. But I guess he was kind of like a biblical historian as well. So he cared about the the biblical, he cared about the world that the Bible took place in. And when I was I remember sitting in church, hearing him preach the most fascinating parts of that was when he would put you in the shoes of people living in the Near East at the time. And put you in their shoes of what their life was like. And I didn't realize but that was the beginning of me becoming an anthropologist because I was curious about what their actual lives are like. So my dad's side, I have this sense of adventure and discovery on my grandpa's side, I have this, I have this historian influence, and I guess, an anthropological influence. And those two things just pushed me my, my entire life towards where I'm at now. And then the last thing is, my dad and I, the way that we bond still today, is watching historical movies, or historical documentaries and pausing it every 30 seconds to talk for 15 minutes about something, you know, and then resume it. And so, so yeah, all of my familial influences pushed me towards history. And I guess, sort of being an explorer along with it.

Alex Ferrari 8:05
And your DNA, obviously.

Luke Caverns 8:07
Yeah, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 8:07
It's, it's, there's no question that's in the blood, so generational that I mean, you could just I could as you're laying it all out, it's just generational that you Yeah, that you were almost destined. Like if you were on the other side, and you're writing out a soul blueprint or soul plan. I'm like, What do I want to do this life? I really want to be like, I want to go into like adventures in archaeology and oh, this family go in this one. This one. This one will walk you right through

Luke Caverns 8:32
What's really what's really interesting is I think when when I was in kindergarten, we had a career day and kindergarten but it was it was actually like your school picture day, but But you would pick your outfit. Yeah, you know, that would match with what you with what you wanted to do. And I did not know, but I put on I put on Theodore Roosevelt's like, his Ranger hat, or it was It wasn't even a ranger or a cowboy hat. Some? Yeah, it was it was his field hat I put, I put something like that on. And I put sort of like a like a duster jacket on kind of like an explorer. And I had I had the binoculars and I have that is my kindergarten class photo is me as an explorer. And my mom, I didn't know about this till maybe a couple years ago, and my mom pulled that out and framed it for me and gave it to me for Christmas. Yeah. And so now that photo sits on one of our bookshelves at home. But yeah, I mean, even in kindergarten, you know,

It was there, man. Yeah, is there so I have to ask you that. What was the movie with the two ancient civilizations? Ancient environments? Were fighting each other? I have a get I have a feeling I know what it is.

What do you think it was?

Alex Ferrari 9:36
It's the Mummy.

Luke Caverns 9:37
The Mummy. No, no, it wasn't the mummy. I tell you what, though. I'll tell you what. I was so scared to watch the mummy for the longest time. My dad was always telling me oh, we got to watch this movie. We got to watch this movie and he had this little drawer with VHS tapes in it. And the one that was always sitting on top was the mummy where you see Brendan Fraser and a woman necessary but then you have the face. The sand Yeah, I never wanted to watch it because it looked too scary. But I ended up watching him. I mean, maybe, I don't know, at some point shortly after that, but it was actually Troy.

Alex Ferrari 10:08
Okay. All right, Troy, that's, that's a much better movie

Luke Caverns 10:11
That that started my Troy started everything.

Alex Ferrari 10:14
That's a great movie.

Luke Caverns 10:15
And that's that's the earliest memory I have of falling in love with ancient history. And then, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm five or six, and I'm kind of learning to read. And so I'm flipping through my grandfather's on my mom's side, flipping through his ancient history books. And I, you know, I could read the word Troy, T R, O Y. And, and I take it to my grandpa, and I would have him read to me about Troy in this book. And so it's this book called Lost Cities. And I ended up stealing it from him. I don't know, sometime when I was like, 10 years old, and I never gave it back. So I think he's okay with it. Yeah, he's definitely okay. So yeah

Alex Ferrari 10:51
It's funny, you know, going down into, it's a good segue into lost cities, because Troy was a myth. Yeah, for the longest time, I mean, was like, God, it's just an analogy. It's something like, you know, it's a, it's just a folklore, if you will. But then they found it. They actually found Troy. So that, and I want to hear your point of view on this means that kind of things are happening more and more now where things that were thought to be legend, they're finding proof of like they did that there was a city off the coast of India, that they found underneath the ocean. Okay, that was a a city that was myth. And they're like, No, it's they found ads that's happening everywhere. It's starting to happen more and more and established archaeology, or traditional archaeology, or archaeologists, mainstream archaeology, which sticks to the narrative that's been thrown at them from 100 years ago, which we'll get into the pyramids in Egypt in a minute. But the old guard is having a problem. rectifying the way they think about things because it's been, that's what I find fascinating about mainstream archaeologists, is that they, they, they think that what they know, is the end all be all, and there is no room for new ideas or new things that come up in new ideas or new things could come up. But they they can't move the needle too much. Yeah. Yeah. Like they can't if they move the needle too much like No, no, no, no, but that's what it was Sadra, 100 years ago, where I would imagine that a field like archeology, and anthropology is a field that is a constant state of change, constant state of movement, because you're finding out new information, new technologies, DNA, you know, they can go in and look at things or carbon dating, other things that weren't available 50 years ago, is now available, new information is being found, or new ancient civilizations are found in the Amazon or something like that. Yeah, that confirm myths or something like that. How do you think that, you know, because you're obviously the new guard. And, you know, Ed, who was on the show before, who was one of your, one of your teachers, and Burnett, who's a wonderful, wonderful teacher leans more towards the older guard, not that he's not open to things. I'm not trying to put him on the spot. But two very different generations. How do you see this moving forward? And why do you think the older generation is? So like, they think their minds are closed? And by the way, it's not just archaeology? It's physics. It's all of it's all of it. It's all of it.

Luke Caverns 13:29
Yeah. Wow. There's a lot to unpack there. Yeah, so first? Yeah. Dr. Barnhart, professor of mine, and I still travel with him. I think this year, he and I are doing five trips together. So we're very, very close friends. And yeah, sure. I mean, he's, he's, he's an archaeologist, you know, I guess academic. Actually, actually, like world class academic through through and, but he has actually more of an open mind than a lot I would have. I would have to agree with you. Yeah. And a bit more than others. Yeah. Yeah. He's not you know, he's not he's not jumping on the Atlantis ship. But he's got all kinds of ideas

Alex Ferrari 14:07
Atlantis ship Atlantis, what do you mean, what's the Atlantis ship?

Luke Caverns 14:10
Well, well, you know, there's, there's this whole push now that we say this whole push you have a lot of people who are diving into Atlantis is kind of like the umbrella term for all of it. But people are interested in lost civilizations that are kind of haven't quite been identified. And I don't know, you know, you look at the dialogues of Plato talking about, you know, the story of Atlantis, that kind of becomes the umbrella term. And so there's kind of like Graham Hancock's idea. There's this idea that there was a globe spanning civilization 12,000 years ago, and people just put the title on that as Atlantis. Really got it. Dr. Barnard is not jumping on that. But he has tons of other ideas that aren't commonly accepted. And what I'm hoping is that as time goes on, I'm not an academic. I went to school for anthropology but I'm not an academic. But I am hoping that the younger generation that's coming in, and maybe with the with the advent of just an explosion of technology, that people are going to become more open to paradigm shifting a lot. You know?

Alex Ferrari 15:18
Don't you agree that right now our paradigm shifting almost daily in our life AI when did AI showed up?

Luke Caverns 15:26
Oh, my God

Alex Ferrari 15:26
AI showed up. What a year ago? Yeah. A year. And I mean, we know now it's, like really showed up like when it became it's part of the Zeitgeist. It's been around for a long time, YouTube's been using AI since 2010. Sure, and so many others, but like, now it's everywhere. And it's going faster and faster and faster and faster. So our paradigm has shifted constantly. And yet a lot of these academic fields are moving like molasses.

Luke Caverns 15:51
I'll give you I'll give you a specific example of what I think is wrong with academia right now. You have, I'm not gonna say his name, although he deserves for me to say his name. There there is a there is an archeologist who's very well, he's he's, you know, I mean, he's, he's a world respected.

Alex Ferrari 16:11
Dr. Jones, Dr. Jones, Dr. Jones, I understand. I understand. Call him out. It's okay. It's okay. He's old. That's fine.

Luke Caverns 16:19
Yeah, he he. I don't know he he's out of he's a professor out of out of the Midwest. And he's specializes in ancient South and Central or Central, Central and South American archaeology. And he is probably like, the most vehement vicious archaeologist that I have ever seen. And he's a part of the he's a part of the organization that was trying to get Graham Hancock's and ancient Apocalypse taken down off of Netflix. Yeah, he's a part of that he's a part of that group. And he even blocked me on Twitter. I've never even interacted with this guy, just because you said, Sure, sure. And because I'm open to ideas, I'm not crusading anything in particular, but because I'm open to certain ideas. And because I'm associated with people are friends with people got our shows up, God forbid, I'm friends with people who have slightly different views about ancient history than me. He's a zealot. Yeah, exactly. And so he blocked me, because of the people I'm associated with. He has tweeted about me more than 50 times since he blocked me, which, which is like the most slimy thing you could do. And he's probably one of the guys that's like, the best example I can give of somebody who is totally fine with the status quo, you know, and doesn't really care about pushing anything of real significance forward. Now, why is that? Because he wrote the textbooks, and he sells $180 textbooks to his students at University have to buy his textbooks, and his textbooks have the information that he doesn't want to be changed. He's just one example of hundreds of people in all fields of academia that are essentially gatekeeping, you know, the future. So it's going to take this old guard to literally die, before things start moving forward. And I don't know, maybe this next generation people that are my age or so maybe they become exactly like that, again, I don't know. But I just hope that I just hope that this next generation looks at the at the state of the world, and kind of realizes that people are going to have to put their, they're gonna have to put their egos to the side for the betterment of the world. You know.

Alex Ferrari 18:35
It's seems almost like that, I think that the new generation, I don't think that's going to be a problem, because the new generation information is changing so rapidly, there are no textbooks in the way that they were before they have to print them and have to sit there and they're constantly being updated. All this information is constantly updated, shows like this is getting information out to the public, in ways that you would normally have to go into an academic environment to have conversations like this, or even to, you know, look into this stuff like the History Channel, and, and these kinds of these kinds of in podcasts like this, where we can go in deeper, but the information is changing so rapidly, that I don't think that the the new guard that is coming in is going to have an issue with that because I don't think they'll have control of not like the old guard, the old guard, like you wrote a book that book. Sure that book didn't change for 50 years, like you know, they've made it change. It was locked in and if you wrote it, you have definitely an incentive to keep it there as opposed to like, hey, maybe maybe they're right, let me rewrite the book for edition five. And sorry, guys, this is a constantly changing giant, constantly changing field. Yeah, we're updating things constantly. So what we taught you last year, probably we found something new that changes that. You know, is is the egg the healthy part of that the yolk the healthy part of the egg white the health bar. I remember that. That was a that was a debate when I was coming up like first of all, like no, no, no, no egg whites horrible. That's the bad part for you now is the ideal, then they switched it around. I remember that as a kid. I'm like, Guys, can we? Can we at least with the egg? Can we at least figure that out?

Luke Caverns 20:11
Just eat the egg man?

Alex Ferrari 20:13
It's gonna be okay. Now. Alright, so let's dive into something real quick. The, the 14th, the worldwide civilization that Graham Hancock talks about? I love Graham, I think he's, I think what Graham is doing is remarkable. Whether you agree with everything or not, he's asking questions. And he's forcing that he's forcing dialogues that might have not been. Yeah. And that's all that that's what a good investigator does, just posing questions. Now, this idea of this 14 or 14,000 years ago, there was this worldwide civilization. I love a good story, because I'm a filmmaker. So I love a good story. And I love I love his ancient Apocalypse show and all of this stuff. There are elements of that theory that makes sense to me. I don't know if there's enough information to say that there was one worldwide civilization that all of sudden crashed down because even Rome, which was a huge empire, and ran for about 1000 years, which is pretty, pretty damn good. Wasn't the whole world. Yeah. Could it be possibly, but man, it's been wiped out completely? I don't think that that per This is my own personal thing. I don't think there there was something that big maybe there was, I think there might have been two or three. That could have been an Atlantean Atlantean. Civilization, there could have been Lumeria. That could have been a couple other big civilizations. That's a possibility. What are your thoughts on pre Younger Dryas? Do you agree with the Younger Dryas theory in general that something happened 12,000 years ago that caused I mean, the math the way he lays it out in that in that show, and with Randall Carson, and and what Graham is talking about, they lay out a very convincing hypothesis, very convincing when there's actual, it seems to be geological proof, things like that. I love to hear your thoughts on that whole thing, sir.

Luke Caverns 22:15
Yeah, yeah. So to start it off, to start us off the Younger Dryas hypothesis, people. You know, it's amazing that it's amazing that we somehow know for certain what killed off the dinosaurs, but people are still haven't figured out what happened 12,000 years ago, you know, but

Alex Ferrari 22:36
There's no textbooks talking about the dinosaur stuff. That's that important.

Luke Caverns 22:39
Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think that, but there's definitely enough evidence that something cataclysmic happened to end the Ice Age. I think that a plausible argument is that a large chunk of meteors from the toward Meteor stream hit the North Atlantic ice cap, and just instantly, he does that, yeah, instantly, just heated up the world and ended the Ice Age. And so you have this global flooding and the sea levels rise and everything. And I can say, almost certainly without a doubt that maybe the majority of humanity died during that George during that time period. I mean, we have we lost 85% of our wildlife species in North America. You ever notice when you go to a museum? There's not really or when you go to a zoo? There's not really a North America section, because we have like, rabbits, Fox, deer, Wolf bear, wolf. We used to have

Alex Ferrari 23:35
We have moose a couple of years. Sure, sure. But no, you're right. It's not like Africa.

Luke Caverns 23:39
Yeah, we used to have all of those species. You know, we had giant camels, we had elephants, we had woolly mammoths. We have woolly mammoths. We had saber toothed tigers, we had dire wolves. We had something called the American lion, which looked exactly like the African lion but twice as large. And so bear twos in the giant bear the short faced bear the short, please. They think that the short face bear was a barrier that stopped people from coming across the Bering Strait or the Bering Strait started or balter, always Bering Straits up north, and they think that that barrier was so vicious that it was a barrier stopping people from coming into the Americas. Although we know that that's not true. There were people here before the Ice Age. Now we do how many? I don't know. But yeah, I mean, all those species are gone. And, and that's just to name a few. I didn't even mention the giant sloth. I don't think there's so many. All those species are gone. So you can imagine that if anybody was here in North America, they're gone. And people all around the world, the sea levels rise. You have people who are living along the coastlines, you know, I don't really know if 12,000 years ago there are people living farther inland because the amount of trekking Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's tough to live further inland unless you're living along huge body of water. But a lot of people died. A lot of coastal people died, probably the majority of humanity died. So I totally agree with that. As far as a 12,000 year old or pre Ice Age or Ice Age civilization, I don't see it being impossible at all. I mean, they say that the they say that moderately, are modern and are anatomically modern human beings have been around for 200,000, maybe even 300,000 years. And so they didn't really do anything of significance until 6000 years ago. So it took it took, it took them at the very least 194,000 years to build itself to build a town. You know, how do you want the same brain? Right, we had the same brain drain you had you had people that were as smart as Einstein living 150,000 years ago. You know, yeah, that so the likelihood is that the likelihood is that there were civilizations, the likelihood is I bet you there are civilizations that existed 100,000 years ago, how, you know, sophisticated, I don't know, but but

Alex Ferrari 26:06
But if you think about it on a logical standpoint, if there was a civilization like ours, right now exact just take our civilization put 100,000 years ago, and there's a cataclysmic, something happens, meteor hits, the Yellowstone Volcano explodes, whatever that that kills most 100,000 Yet, nothing's left. None of this. There's no Styrofoam. There's no plastic, it's all gone. It's all been worked on in the earth is just taking it back in 100,000 years, it could all be what you would be not. There wouldn't be bones left barely, unless it was hidden at a certain way. But generally speaking, sure, it would be. I know, it's hard to believe. But there was a show once on on history called cowboy. I forgot the name of it. But it was like, What if all humans left or something like that? Oh, really? Okay. And it was such a fascinating show. Because they would literally show like, if all humanity left today, how long would it take for New York to go? And they just look, here's 1500 years from now, the Empire State Building would crash? Because they would Mongol? You know, they said that the last thing humanity would have made that would still be functioning is the Hoover Dam. Take about 100 100 120 years for it to the gear the little things to pop and stop. Still Vegas would be the last city to lose lights

Luke Caverns 26:06
Did they engrave something on the Hoover Dam for for future civilizations to

Alex Ferrari 26:32
I've been there twice. So yeah, I think I think I saw a bunch of stuff that they have. They're like engravings and things like that Hoover Dam because they know it's gonna last forever. It's not going away. It's the one thing that humanity in current day has made. That's almost as it's so equivalent of last thing as long as a pyramid sir. It's just so it was such a massive. I mean, I've ever been there. Now. I want to go. It's just like you just there. Jesus, man, it's can't even comprehend now, what they put in there

Luke Caverns 27:58
A ton of people died in that right? Oh, inside of people fell?

Alex Ferrari 28:00
Oh, absolutely. mean, it was a whole other time.

Luke Caverns 28:04
I bet you there has to be not to get off in the weeds. But there has to be bodies of people who are crushed by stones on the pyramids. And I'm like, well, he's stuck down there.

Alex Ferrari 28:13
But they're gone. Yeah, they're gone. So that's my point. So like, if there was if there were if there were civilizations on earth 1000 years ago, you know, how about if we reset every 10 15,000 years, every fifth 10 50,000 years, we said if you look into the yugas, you know, the Yugas the the Indian cycle of true of you start from it's 24,000 years. So it's a 12 year cycle, you start at the top and you're an enlightened, you're an enlightened species, meaning that you are as close to source as possible. So you have access to more information, you have access to more knowledge and so on. And then as you start going down in time, and that cycle, you start getting dumber and farther away from from ignorant and you start losing your connection with source. I'm getting a little spiritual here. And then when you get all the way to the bottom of that, which is 12,000, which was about 12,000 years ago, oh really well, give or take. I'm not I'm not excuse me, I'm mistaken on the time period, that when we were at the lowest point was the Dark Ages. Because if you remember why in this last 150 years, we have done insane things. But we were sitting around for six, 400 years, 500 years. Nothing happened. Yeah, once wrote about quite a long time when Rome fell. Nothing. Yeah, like it was the dark ages and not one thing, then the Renaissance came. And that's when we started to come back out. So we're now on the upward swing. And that's why, at least from a spiritual standpoint, we're supposedly accessing a lot more information, things are starting to move much faster. And there's no argument of that. I mean, I always wonder like, how is in the last 150 years? We've done? I mean, my grandma, grandpa when he was born, there was no cars. Oh, yeah. No planes. Electricity was a thing recently. I mean, yeah. And now You know, he, when he died, the Internet was in its infancy at AOL was kicking in when he died. And when I was born, you know, I was born in the 70s, from the 70s to today. Good Lord, how much have we changed? So it's so much information? That's so that's, that's the cycle. So imagine if we are every 25,000 years recycling, like literally just something happens. Okay, that didn't get it this time. Let's reset, and we start the ball over again, with some sort of cataclysmic thing. There is geological proof for multiple, younger, dry or there's a younger drive. So there's a couple other drives.

Luke Caverns 30:39
There's multiple events over the course of 1200 years or so. Yeah, there's 12000. About there's multiple events over the course. So I want to say that the Younger Dryas begins, I'm not an expert in this, but it is. These are some rough dates. It begins around 12,800 years ago, and it ends around 11,600 years ago. So that's like a 1200 year time span that multiple events happen to end the Ice Age.

Alex Ferrari 31:10
It wasn't just like one thing that just knocked that over the weekend.

Luke Caverns 31:14
They think maybe right at the very end, that's

Alex Ferrari 31:16
There was one thing, but there was a bunch of things happening. Yes. So if a bunch of things were happening, that could have given the people of the earth, at least people who were in tune to that. The the the warning to build those underground cities in Turkey? Oh, yeah. Or the ones that they're discovering in China. And I mean, did you see the one in China? That cavern system?

Luke Caverns 31:41
It's okay, yes. I've seen some about this on Twitter.

Alex Ferrari 31:44
Oh, my God, it's, I mean, they still don't there's no, there's no record of it. No, they have no idea who built it. It is massive, underground, beautifully carved with things inside the walls. It was stunning. Yeah. And then also in India, and all around the world, there are these underground or inside mountain scenarios that people could have very easily lived. So that that kind of lines up. Like if they started seeing things like oh, man, oh, shoot, we better start doing something about this.

Luke Caverns 32:17
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, we're kind of at a point where it's anybody's best guess as to what, as to what ancient cultures were doing, and what they were in tune to, sometimes some, something I've tried to think about is, think about how utterly handicapped we are in modern society, there's no way that we could go out into the wilderness and survive on our own. All the times I've been in the jungle. If I actually had to live out there, I would die. You know, think about, you know, animals seem to intuitively predict be able to predict the weather. Yes. And you you, you know, I visited indigenous people in the jungles of Central America, and they are living in a different frequency a different they're, I should say, they're attuned to different things. You're you're Yeah, absolutely. And so, how do you as a modern person, you know, I, I walk around with a crutch all day, my phone in my pocket, you know, my car? Not our technology, my air conditioning? Sure. How can I with all of my books and everything, you know, that I read all the time? How can I ever think that I can accurate accurately, put myself in the shoes of an ancient person and be able to definitively say what they were and we're not aware of, you know, just their their, the I mean, we're studying Martians. Basically, they lived a completely different life than we do. Imagine how much you would be able to soak up. If you lived outside every single day. I say outside just a much more natural, yeah, much more natural way of life than then we have today. Imagine how much you would soak up and know like, you would be able. When the birds stop chirping. You go, Okay, there's something there's there's other predator around or there's going to be a storm. Let me look at the sky. You know, you could you could smell it in the air. You could feel it in the wind like we are just so our pineal gland is so calloused now, you know, and literally, calloused or calcified. I shouldn't say, you know, we're just so disconnected from this outer world that exist around us that I'm kind of getting off in the womb now. But this is the you know, this is the time to talk about that. But yeah, I think that there are, I think that there's definitely a natural energy that people connect to, that you're supposed to be connected to.

Alex Ferrari 34:49
If enjoying this conversation, I invite you to go deeper down the rabbit hole with me. On next level soul TV. It's packed with exclusive content like live special guests Q and A's daily. podcasts commercial free access to the entire next level soul catalogue, early access to episodes before they air and special meditations, you won't find anywhere else, we will be adding new exclusive content every month. Plus, you can connect with me during my monthly live streams. Just go to and join our soulful community today. I'll see you on the inside.

Luke Caverns 35:25
And I think that over the last, I don't know, since the Industrial Revolution, we're just slowly getting more and more and more disconnected from the way we're supposed to be living. And I think that we're not really at all in a place where we can definitively say what was and wasn't happening some 12,000 years ago and what people may have not been able to look, you guys even have astronomers back then who were aware of different phenomena in the sky to perhaps be able to, to predict meteor showers, you know, or something that is going to enter into their atmosphere and they need to burn burrow under the ground and build cities underneath the ground. It just who knows man or maybe, you know, you have those initial events in the Younger Dryas you have these meteors from the toward MediaStream, pelting the earth and then all of a sudden, all these people are like, Okay, we got to go underground. Because when it hits the earth, perhaps it raises the temperature, all of your agriculture dies off. So you need to move underground. You know, there's just so many things that can happen. You know,

Alex Ferrari 36:27
I was talking to Christopher Dunn the other day on the show, and it was something that I came, I told him this and he completely agreed with me on it is that we have built this technology in this technological advancements that we've built on archaic energy. Yeah, we are burning things to get electricity. Yeah, we are so fragile, as a society. You know, anyone who's lost power in their house for more than an hour, understands how how absolutely vulnerable we are in this world, in the modern world. Because all this technology is great, but Wi Fi goes out internet goes out. This is absolutely useless. Absolutely useless. It does not it does nothing for you. You know, everything without like electricity. This room is just a box. That sounds cool. No one can hear you screaming. Literally, it I always find that fascinating that we've been we've spent so much energy on creating technology, but we have not focused on the energy on how to actually get energy in a more efficient, more robust way. Like we are so burnt, we're basically cavemen. Yeah, we're burning firewood, or oil to get electricity.

Luke Caverns 37:48
You know, some something that's funny that you just said, when you said, you know, if something happened, like if our if our electric grid went off, and we are, you know, say we can't power our phones anymore or something, I think, you know, archaeologist, I don't know say say it reminds me of people trying to study the study the cult of Dionysus in Pompeii. So Pompeii the Mount Vesuvius erupts and covers the city of Pompeii in a wall of ash. It's excavated, you know, officially excavated some 1800 years later. And they end up finding these rooms for the cult of Dionysus. And I, and when you said, when you said, you know, this sounds like a really cool box. It is my brain immediately went to Yeah. Okay. So say, say a volcano erupts or something and people, people excavate this room. 2000 years later, they would walk in and they'll go, you hear the sound cancelling in here, look at these old Oracle's that people are speaking into this must have been a silence cults temple that people would come into, right. And, and because it was so quiet, they could hear maybe they thought they could hear the voices and the microphones or the way that they spoke to the gods like, no, that's not at all what this was meant for. That's what archaeology is doing. We're probably so far off. I was with I was with Dr. Barnhart in the not in the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City. And we were looking at the Maya gods and he was like, he's like, Yeah, you know, they don't really have a lot of love in their culture, do they? You know, you don't see a lot of joy. Like you see another culture, he's like, they're very McCobb and kind of scary. But on the other hand, we're probably just dead wrong about everything that we think about these people, you know, and so that would that's what that's kind of, you know, giving your audience an idea of like if people excavate this room 2000 years from now they're gonna have absolutely no idea what they're looking at

Alex Ferrari 39:40
All the books will be gone. So then all this knowledge is on paper, so it'll be gone I doubt that this room would be around 2000 years but let's say argue Yeah, for argument's sake that this this is made out of cement. Yeah, you know, this is made out of like Roman cement, not hard some sure sure Roman cement that's gonna last 2000 years. And if it does, you're absolutely Right, they're gonna find some you know, maybe they'll find some of these resins.

Luke Caverns 40:04
They'll think this they'll think this was the gods. Yeah, this was this. This is the shrine with the silence gods, right? You walk into the temple and you'll hear anything. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 40:14
Well, so Well, that isn't that basically what ancient the theories of the Great Pyramids were was basically a, you know, some British archaeologist, and this is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong. Some British archaeologists who first came into it, walked into the Great Pyramid and they said, Oh, this must be a tomb for the, for the Pharaoh. And, you know, there Look, there's a there's a sort of coffin looking thing. That's what this is. And that theory, which is a dude's idea, has been held on to by mainstream archaeologists all these years, though, there is no proof that anybody's have ever been found there. That anything that connects to any other tombs that they found in Egypt, all of the tombs are completely different, and nothing has ever been, but yet, they still hold on to the idea that the Great Pyramid is a tomb when there's absolutely, truly no proof whatsoever that there was other than a British archaeologist from the 1800s. Who said that, is that correct?

Luke Caverns 41:14
Partly, yeah, okay. There's a lot that goes into that. So, where, to us in the modern day, the earliest literary source that we get that the pyramids were used, that the Great Pyramids of Giza, because that's, you know, it's different than the pyramid of gunas. Sure, but if we're talking about the the Giza Pyramids, or let's say that the five, the Five Great Pyramids, so let's start with the step pyramid of Saqqara the pyramid of zoster, although that one is different than the others. But after that you actually have the first Great Pyramid is called the Red Pyramid. That is, it's not at Giza, but it's, I want to say 15 or 50 miles south of Giza, then you've got the Great Pyramid of Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure. And then you have the Bent Pyramid in there as well. So the earliest literary evidence that we have, that the great pyramids are being referred to as tombs for you know, long dead pharaohs, is in about 450 BC. When Herodotus travels to Egypt, from Athens, I believe in Greece, and he's essentially just exploring Egypt and writing about it.

Alex Ferrari 42:21
Is he the one is he the one who told Plato about Atlantis?

Luke Caverns 42:23
No, that's Solon

Alex Ferrari 42:24
Thank you.

Luke Caverns 42:25
So, so, Solon, is about 150 years before Heraclitus. And Heraclitus is alive at the time of Socrates. And Socrates is before right before Plato, I believe so Plato is a little bit after as

Alex Ferrari 42:41
It goes, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, in the in this in the teacher, okay. Yes, yeah, and the teacher to student

Luke Caverns 42:48
And I think that I think that Socrates and Heraclitus were friends, I think they I think they knew each other. There were boys that Yeah, and so so Heraclitus, he documents he documents Egypt, and maybe around 450 BC, and he speaks to they always call them priests but who a tour guide in Egypt. That is a real thing. By the way, there were tour guides in ancient Egypt there there were

Alex Ferrari 43:14
Of course, because it was the the biggest building on the planet and everyone who walked by the like, Would you like a tour? Here buy this.

Luke Caverns 43:21
Yeah, I that has been going on forever. That has been going on for at least 2500 years.

Alex Ferrari 43:29
I can imagine just like you have a generational generational tour guides. Why did you get in my grandfather, the grandfather of graphite tour out of the Great Pyramids.

Luke Caverns 43:42
That's that's actually hilarious. I bet you that that's the case. I'm sure. There are people there. I'll get back to Radisson in a second. But there are people in Egypt. So you know, the, you know, the Egyptian headdresses that have the Cobra chef sitting up on the front. They think that that comes from an ancient practice. Oh, also Moses, how he can turn his he could turn the Cobra into a staff. Turn the staff into back into a cobra film. Yes, yeah. There are still people in Egypt that can do that. And that is a practice that has been carried down for 1000s of years turning a cobra into a staph yes, they can grab a cobra by its head. And I don't know how these

Alex Ferrari 44:25
It's a it's a it's a it's a it's a Vulcan nerve pinch.

Luke Caverns 44:28
Yeah, it's something like that. And so they'll grab a cobra by its head and it'll stiffen up and turn into like a staff and people people, they'll take they'll take that and they'll wrap it and put it up on top of their head where the cobra is is alive within the cobra is still alive. Yeah. Sitting on top of their head doesn't bite them or anything. It's like these Egyptian snake charmer. And there's a Egyptologist who's, he's really fascinating guy, Bob Brier. He just retired. He's kind of one of these guys who has a lot of these not really accepted theories about Egypt but he's you He's an Egyptologist and just amazing. He just retired. But one of his discoveries in Egypt was, I guess, maybe not a discovery but he brought it to the forefront and let people know about it. That these Egyptians snake charmers and and the things that you that we hear about in the book of Exodus is still happening today. There's still people who can do it. So these, these cultural trades are being handed down over time. So yeah, there were probably, yeah, there. There were probably there. Today, some sort of gods. Yeah. So anyways, so Harada is traveling through Egypt. And he has a tour guide that takes him to the great pyramids and, you know, he's course asked him the purpose of it, and they tell him that the they tell him the names that we know today, which is Khufu, Khafre, him and curry. And, and so that is, first, I think its earliest literary evidence that we have of the pyramids being attributed to somebody, there may be some graffiti that goes back before that. But that's how far back it goes as far as we know. And so that's 450 BCE. And just to give people an idea of how much longer after the suppose time of the pyramids, they say that the Great Pyramid was built in about 2560. You know, that's the exception. And so and so even if it was built in 2560 BC, that's more than that's 2100 years later that Herodotus is standing at the base of it. And he writes down for us, essentially, who the Egyptian priests tell him the pyramids were for the tour guides. Yeah. And so I think I want to say that they that that is also the same source that we get the 20 year estimate from that it was 20 years per pyramid, which is

Alex Ferrari 46:47
That has been disproven, like, just just math, it doesn't make, they would have to be putting so many bricks up every second or every minute for that that time on.

Luke Caverns 46:59
Yeah, that certainly doesn't make sense. Um, as far as when they were built. That's a tough one to say, because the archeology, and the carbon dating seems to be all over the place. Now, I have seen so here's the thing, if we if we placed the pyramids at 12,000 years old, and I haven't seen anybody talking about this, and I haven't put this in a video yet, I'm sure I will, one day. The blocks in the great on the Great Pyramid are on the three great pyramids of Giza, the blocks that are exposed right now and most of the casing stones, although we all know on the third pyramid, the smallest one mid career, whoever was putting granite casing stones on them, but on the middle pyramid and the Great Pyramid, those are all they were white limestone Polish casing stones. Now, if they were there 12,000 years ago, they are in Egypt during what is called the African human period where Egypt is a swamp and it's raining a lot. I have seen limestone megaliths in swamps that are 3000 years old, and they're unrecognizable there. So there are 17 Olmec heads in Mexico, that we only have 17 Because they're the ones that survived. They're made out of basalt. Basalt is not as hard as granite, but Basalt is not going anywhere. And you can still, you know, it can be rained on for 3000 years, and you'll still see the face there. There are actually bigger Olmec heads that are made out of limestone that had been rained on for 3000 years. And it's like a, it's like the face melted off the front of it. So the pyramids would look like they've been melting if they were there 12,000 years ago being rained on until Egypt turns dry. So if we go back to 1000 years ago, it probably takes 4000 more years, maybe around 8000 years ago 6000 BCE, that Egypt starts drying up and and people start really moving close to the Nile. So there's some dilemmas there. It's like limestone would be really, really, really, really, really deteriorated after 4000 years of being rained on because I've seen it. However, the explanation of the explanation of Old Kingdom or Old Kingdom Pharaohs commissioning the pyramids to be built in 20 years, there's actually one Pharaoh Sneferu that they attribute to having built three pyramids he built the pyramid of my doom which suppose you know, collapsed the Bent Pyramid which they say had an issue in the way that the corbels ceilings were aligned and so he had to narrow the he had to narrow I guess the projection of how tall it was. But for some reason, he still finished it and then he moved on to the Red Pyramid. So how does one guy build three pyramids and is over the course of his life? And each of them take 20 years so I mean, how old is this guy by the end of the and

Alex Ferrari 49:53
He started when you were your age. He had he had and he lived beautifully because he's bright ending off around 90 Sure. In a time period where people were not living till 90

Luke Caverns 50:02
Exactly. And so that's, it's tough thing. It's a tough thing to buy outright. I'm kind of I actually, I kind of find myself in a unique belief that I don't really know, I don't know who shares these ideas. Although I think Graham Hancock is is coming around to this idea, too, that he believes that the Sphinx the origin of the space is possibly a lot older than the rest of Egypt. And that I've kind of just thrown this out there. This is an idea that there may have once upon a time been a sphinx cult that just like the coltan here, sure, yeah. Once upon a time, there may have been a sphinx cult in Egypt. And we know that the great pyramids are built on these kind of natural primordial mounds, like if you go down into the bottom of the Great Pyramid, I believe I've been there, but I've seen tons of photos of it. That there there is a mound underneath the pyramid. And so you have this idea, this primordial mound that they saw a significant and they covered it up. For what exact purpose the pyramid serves the entire purpose of that. I don't know I don't believe that it was just a tomb. Maybe it was maybe somebody decided they needed to be buried in there, because you see that box that's like the right size of a person at that time. But no evidence of of anybody in any of the three great pyramids at all, that there's no evidence that they were as hard physical, archaeological evidence that people were buried and they're not on a body never found a mummy. There's no hieroglyphs. There's no hieroglyphs. And that's another thing. So when you this is this is, I think maybe one of the biggest hang ups in Egyptology. That's, of course, not really acknowledged much at all, by Egyptologist. But when you go to the pyramid of Saqqara, which is said to have been built by Zoster with his architect, Emo tip and about 2800, or that might be an over projection, but let's say around 2700 BC, that is the step pyramid that's built out of modestly sized limestone blocks. I mean, it's probably this big, so it takes maybe a couple of people Sure, sure, no, carry that. And there's this huge labyrinth of tunnels underneath the pyramid. And when you go down there, you know who this Pyramid was built for, because his name is written all over the labyrinths underneath the pyramid. And there's actually hieroglyphs of him standing, performing divine ceremonies and visiting his palace and the afterlife. And the walls, you may have seen this before, where it's got the turquoise scarabs all over the walls, the little blue, it's decorated, like his palace and Memphis was when you're there it is, you know who this pyramid is built for. But then the next five Pharaohs that come through all are the next four pharaohs, but there's a fifth one come through, and they all build pyramids that are even bigger, even more grand. But but they don't really put their name now we're not gonna humble they're humble. I'm not gonna put my name in it. Yeah, no, they're not humble Faris. I mean, I mean, we through literary evidence, we know that synephrine was a good person. We know sniffer existed. We know when he existed. And we know he was a good person. But there's no way he's not. If he built a pyramid and he has his tomb somewhere. There's no way he's not putting his name on there. You know why you build you build the biggest building on the face of the planet until the Eiffel Tower is built. And then you don't put your name anywhere inside of it. Or even on the mortuary temples on the outside of it. Just there's something there that that that

Alex Ferrari 53:38
But as is traditional Egyptologist still holding on to that idea that these are tombs. Absolutely. Why that makes no sense. There's so much counter evidence, yeah. To this, like this conversation, any logical human being. I mean, we'd say there's just no evidence,

Luke Caverns 53:56
Well, I kind of find myself in this in between area where we have a precedence. For people being buried in pyramids, there are other pyramids that are buried. But these three great pyramids, the Bent Pyramid and the Red Pyramid, these are all the most grand pyramids, and you don't see the hieroglyphs in them, and in any of them, any, any of the five of them anything. And I find myself at this place where I'm thinking, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe the guy who commissioned this is buried in it. But that cannot be the only purpose of this pyramid. Look at all look at all of the chambers and the labyrinth and the corridors that are inside of the pyramid. There is a greater purpose to this than a simple tomb. I mean, the traditional idea is that sometime in remote history, people are taking their dead kings and burying them out in the desert with all their treasures and stuff. And either people go back out to visit the king or people go to loot the Kings treasures. And as they uncover them from the sand, they find this strange effect that people are being Almost five in the sand. So Egypt starts to grow this death cult, this is the traditional idea. A lot of it makes sense. But it starts to get strange when it gets to the Great Pyramids. So, so people started getting this idea that, okay, the body needs to be mummified, there's something significant about the shimmering sands of the desert, that mummify people's bodies when you're buried in them. And this is remote history, you know. And then, so eventually, they, they noticed that they discovered this, because kings burials are being looted, and their body is just sitting out in the open with all the artifacts gone. So it's not a respectful way to like, treat your, you know, your chieftain of, you know, whatever old ancient Egyptian tribe you have. So they start putting rocks on top of a building these things that look like a Twinkie out of rocks. Oh, this is one way back. Yeah, yeah. And so these are called mastabas. And so sure enough, people are ripping the blocks off of the mastabas. And get it taking all the king's treasure and stuff. And and you know, you come in town, you're like, did we just bury the king with this thing last week? Why is it for sale here?

Alex Ferrari 56:01
Let me ask you real quick. Why are they being buried with treasure? If they understand, then this is this is the stretch? If they understand that they can't take it with them?

Luke Caverns 56:11
Well, they thought they could. So is that so that's the idea.

Alex Ferrari 56:14
Yeah, because, but even then, though, with the as as time progressed, though, that idea started to not make as much sense were in the later in the later generations closer to where we are, they understood that they're not taking the gold with them.

Luke Caverns 56:31
Yeah, bye, bye. By the end of the New Kingdom of Egypt, around 1000 BCE, when the Persians and other people start to come in. A lot of these old ideas are gone, like like the death cult of Egypt, people thinking they're going to be reborn, and the next life, they're gonna be able to take all their items with them. All that's kind of gone, by the time the Greek start ruling Egypt, and you have Alexandre and told me all the way down to Cleopatra. The Greeks keep the tradition going, but they don't really, I mean, some of the Greeks don't even believe in their own gods. So we're getting back to a point of like heightened consciousness where people are starting to realize the reality of the world that they're in. So there's this time period where they think they're going to take things with them. And so they build these mastabas above ground, and then people still rob them, then they tunnel under the ground and put a mastaba on top of that people still break in and get them. So they think that their pyramid came from, okay, we've we've tried burying them above ground under giant rocks, it's not going to work, we've tried to bury them under giant rocks inside of a tunnel underground, that still doesn't work. So let's just build something so big that nobody can ever get inside of it. And then eventually, they think that there may have been a thought that's like, Okay, if your body is now violated in the afterlife, your body has to be protected in this life. And if it's violated and people take stuff from it, it affects you in the next life. So they thought that the Pharaoh was like, Well, I'm just gonna build the biggest thing that the world's ever seen in that didn't work. Because we know that people were tunneling into and into it in the 1000s of years ago that people were were tunneling in. So I see the logic behind why somebody might build something that big. If we were to open up the pyramid, and there's one chamber in there with a sarcophagus shaped box, and you see hieroglyphs on the walls. If you're like, you're like, Yep, I know. Yeah, okay. I built that. But you go into the pyramid, there's no hieroglyphs, there is the box there. But there's not even a lid to the box on it anymore.

Alex Ferrari 58:37
And that lid was not something that someone was gonna just lift off

Luke Caverns 58:40
Exactly. No hieroglyphs anywhere. And but you have all of these other chambers? And I mean, you even have, you have tunnels that are this big inside of the pyramid pointing out to the sky towards astronomical bodies that the Egyptians would have recognized. So I'm, so I'm kind of at this point that I'm kind of at this point where I think Graham Hancock and I actually agree on this is kind of a nuanced answer. I think the Egyptians sometime after about 3000 BC, are responsible for the pyramids. If kings were buried in them, it wasn't just a tomb, there was a much bigger purpose

Alex Ferrari 59:18
They might just like, well, this, that big thing out there. Let's bury our King out there.

Luke Caverns 59:22
There there if it Sure, sure. There, I think, I think if it wasn't just a tomb, there's a much bigger purpose. And I think it's obvious when you look at the interior of the pyramids, I mean, people there, they're so complex, that people are even trying to build machines out of them. Like, you know, there's the Ram water pump theory, there's the land of Kim, who's got this idea that they were possibly chemical producing factories. I mean, they're complex enough that people are theorizing like

Alex Ferrari 59:47
Christopher Dunn.

Luke Caverns 59:48
Yeah, he's there. Yeah, of course, Chris. They're so complex to be we're looking at the interior trying to find a deeper meaning, which I think I think it's it's something there's something that's there what it is, we don't know. And I also think that it's possible that in the Old Kingdom of Egypt, that begins around 3100 BCE, you have you have this king, we have this slate palette called the normal palette and you see the very first Pharaoh smiting the king. So Egypt used to be you basically like a tale of two lands, you had the north and the south, Upper and Lower Egypt, except upper was actually South Egypt and lower. But anyways, one conquers the other in the Unites the Kingdom of Egypt, and you begin the Old Kingdom, Early Dynastic Period. And I think that during the, during that period, you had the rule, you had like the absolute rule of a pharaoh, which is what made Egypt so powerful. And these pharaohs were, I think, I think, very spiritual and morally aligned people, for the most part, and I think because of their absolute rule, and because they have the Nile. So the thing is, the reason I'm dubious about I say this all the time, I think when we're looking for Atlantis, I don't think Egypt is the place to look for Atlantis, because when you're looking for an ice age, civilization, there is not a huge reason for people to be living on the Nile 12,000 years ago, because all of Sahara is is green at that point there. I think what makes sense is the reason people are living along the Nile is because when the Sahara dries up, you either have to go to sub Sahara, you know, if you look at the Sahara Desert, below it, you have the Congo and all of these green areas, and that's where all the animals were, that's where the safaris are at, or you go along the Nile, and a lot of people went along the Nile, and that fertile soil on the Nile allows you to it's the most abundant grain factory on the planet. And so that grain made Egypt powerful. And when you have one guy who Egypt is the one place in the ancient world where somebody could go to become a God, who if you were Pharaoh, you were literally God. Sure. And you could tell anybody what you wanted to what, what was going to happen. And so I think is that for these from 3100 BC until basically 2100 BCE, you have this old kingdom period. And I think that I think that we were seeing probably a science and technology that the world hasn't really ever seen since then. And I think that possibly, I was just talking with a friend of mine the other day, about the evidence of tools that we have the built the pyramids, I mean, if you haven't seen the blocks in person, it's hard to. I mean, I haven't

Alex Ferrari 1:02:35
Yeah, can do Copper Age. Yeah, it's it makes no sense.

Luke Caverns 1:02:39
So yeah, I mean, you have, you have two and a half million megalithic limestone blocks per Pyramid at Giza. And these blocks are five to six feet tall, five to six feet long, and maybe four feet wide, or so cut on six sides, and weigh how much. So the average block is between of the most of the pyramid is between two to six tonnes when you go inside the king's chamber, which is lined with with read as well. And granted, you're looking at 20 to 80 tons. And these are, oh, it's crazy, you'll get 20 to 80 tons, but the blocks are half the size as the ones on the outside. So I mean, you're talking you're talking about blocks with an insane amount of density. And that are lifted up in 15 foot high ceiling perfectly. Yeah, perfectly aligned. So the blocks that are in the ceilings are heavier than anything else in the pyramid. And there's five chambers that include these that include these, these megalithic rows as one granite blocks. And the the tools that they attribute the Egyptians having used are these two foot long bronze sauce and, and copper chisels

Alex Ferrari 1:03:57
To cut to cut some of the hardest, hardest rock around correct?

Luke Caverns 1:04:02
Hardest rock on the planet that some you know, some of the hardest rocks in the planet. And yeah, I mean, in the blocks, the blocks and the blocks in the king's chamber, as well as the casing and the outer stones on the pyramid. I mean, they're so fine. That, you know, for two and a half to four feet, they are just perfectly aligned to each other perfectly pressed against each other. I mean, there are some of them. You actually can't pluck a hair. If you think about how fine I mean people say you can't put a credit card. You can't pluck your hair and put it through the cracks.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:31
Can you imagine like when you're a kid you're building up like a Lego something on Legos. And you start at the bottom of the base and you start trying to build something when you're if you get off by one one block. The whole damn thing comes the whole thing is off. Oh yeah. So can you imagine that's an a Lego set? Can you imagine on the scale that they were at the kind of precision that they're about? It's it's not comprehensible? It isn't even to today would be a very could we build it? Yeah. Got it, when they ignore the cost of it, but the, with all of our computers? Sure with all and even then, I mean, there's still a lot of

Luke Caverns 1:05:12
Yeah, you don't you don't want to think that's crazy about that as I was listening to a lecture series on Archaeoastronomy are the study of ancient astronomy. And so there's this, there's this really why I was excited to listen to the episode, it was called the astronomy of the Great Pyramid. And Oh, for 30 minutes, this this PhD, who really well spoken, interesting, interesting lecture. But he's talking about how, you know, it is per the Great Pyramid, as well as all of the pyramids are aligned almost perfectly to, to the cardinal directions. And it's not just, it's not just magnetic north, it is true north, which means you had highly advanced astronomy to be able to align a structure to true north, but also the Great Pyramid, I think the base of is 13 acres, and you had to flatten out the ground for 13 acres perfectly. And it's hard to comprehend that. And what's amazing is that the great pyramid itself, you know, he he builds up and builds up and builds up and builds up everything. And it's amazing that of all the 118, around 120 pyramids that are in Egypt, the Great Pyramid is the one that is aligned to TrueNorth. Perfectly, not but not I mean, the other ones are close, but they're just they're just you know, fractions of a degree off. Or maybe like one degree off, the Great Pyramid is aligned perfectly. And at the very end. You know, he's talking about like, if we were to do this today, we would have to use highly advanced GPS, this, maybe this lecture is like 10 years ago. So the technology he's referring to is a bit different than what we have 10 years later, but at the very end, he goes he was and we just have to chalk this up as coincidence, one of the 120 pyramids was going to be perfect. It's just just so happens. That is the Great Pyramid. It's perfect. I didn't

Alex Ferrari 1:07:09
Was that serious, Was he being serious on that comment?

Luke Caverns 1:07:11
Dead serious. That's how the lecture ended. Oh, this buildup, and then he goes, he goes. So we're just left to conclude that it happens to be coincidence that the Great Pyramid is aligned, and I go, Oh, man, I've listened this for 30 years. And I'm like, There's no way that the great pyramid itself, the Great Pyramid, right happens to be accidentally aligned. And so all this long tangent to say that I think that the Old Kingdom is responsible for a lot of the mysteries of ancient Egypt. And I think that they probably had an understanding that wasn't even nobody even came close to it until the until the Greeks come along some 2500 to 3000 years later, and start rediscovering a lot of these ideas. And there's a huge precedents for that, that we can get into. But I think that they probably had a technology that constructed the pyramids, that was clean. And when they were done, there wasn't any evidence of the tools that they used to construct. Now the carbon dating that comes from the pyramids, doesn't line up to the traditional narrative. And so they think that this is this is as conservative as Egypt. I mean, Egyptologists are very conservative. They're not going to, you know, hypothesize things that are way, way out there according to what they think. But even they will push and say, oh, okay, maybe the pyramids are like 500 years older than we say they are.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:39
And they're getting and they're pushing back a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Maybe 1000 years.

Luke Caverns 1:08:43
Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. So. So if they're 1000 years older, I'd say I'd say I think it's totally plausible that they're not actually in the position that we have them in, in the historical timeline, where exactly, it would be probably a little bit older. At the very, very least, I wouldn't be surprised if they were older. Even if they were pushed back 500 to 1000 years. Our whole idea of the way we studied archaeology and ancient history gets completely shaped Sure. And so I think that I think that that's totally possible but just just from looking at limestone myself that's been rained on when I look at that in Central America and I and it's actually harder limestone in Central America than than in Egypt. I look at the pyramids. I'm like, Yeah, that's a tough thing to get around. You look at the Assyrian Yeah. So the Assyrian it's a megalithic structure. The strangest thing in Egypt. It's it has bigger limestone blocks than you see on the Great Pyramids. Actually, like they could two to three blocks could fit inside of this room. That's it. That's huge. Yeah, yeah, that's just way bigger. I mean, one block is one of the one of the As blocks are like, at least eight times larger than then the average blows, what what is it for, they have no idea. So it's a multi storied structure that's built into the ground. So it's not built up, it's built into the ground. And it's got multiple floors with stairways that go down. And it's filled two thirds of the way up with water. And the limestone, that's there are these big, long, perfectly flat slabs. And I just, and you know, people theorize that this can be 12,000 years old. The only problem with that is that 12,000 years ago, that area looked very similar to the way Central America does today. And when you look at Central American blocks that were around 3000 years ago, that are also limestone, they're torn up from the water. So it's, they can be older, but I just don't know if they can be 12,000 years old, because you would see that you would see the destruction of water on limestone

Alex Ferrari 1:10:53
In limestone being there the thing that's underneath the casings, well, the casing is limestone too. Right. So but but the rocks itself is what limestone? Yeah, yeah. But so you think that couldn't be? Well, then how? How would you? How would you argue the Sphinx being older?

Luke Caverns 1:11:11
Because the Sphinx is destroyed. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty. It's pretty Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you look, you look at the so at the top of the so one of the things that I'll have this conversation will go okay, well, what about the the limestone casing stones on the pyramids, we don't see those anymore. Well, that's true, most of the limestone casing stones are gone. But in the middle pyramids, the casing stones are still there, at the very top. And the wear on those is not the same as when you're down in the Sphinx pit, to look at the walls on the Sphinx like the, the erosion that's inside of it, the erosion. canals that are in there are two feet thick, that water has been flowing down there in the Sphinx had to be repaired at the time that at the time that they attribute the pyramids to have been built.

Alex Ferrari 1:11:58
So there's a possibility that they could be a bit older. Yeah, for sure. 12,000 years older is, is is where you're going to

Luke Caverns 1:12:07
If they were if they were 12,000 years old, they would look exactly like the Sphinx. That's what I that's what I think. So which makes it

Alex Ferrari 1:12:14
Pretty tore up. Yeah, I mean, the Great Pyramid looks those pyramids look pretty tore up. It's it's a gray area, that it's a it's a possibility, because I've always wondered just like, well, the technology for the building got worse. Like, it's absolutely we don't start with the best buildings ever. We started with like little tents. And yeah, we went up to the Empire State Building and now to, you know, all the amazing skyscrapers that we make. They haven't gotten worse, generally. Yeah. So why did it get worse in Egypt? Like we start with the Great Pyramid, and then we start getting down to this like mud? Yeah, it makes no sense.

Luke Caverns 1:12:50
And it's supposedly it is supposedly, so the way that they the traditional idea is that, you know, 3100 BC, Egypt is united. And then over the course of 600 years, it goes, and it's like, all of a sudden, they build the world's biggest building, which is that would be a secara step pyramid. And there's like nothing before that. There's not we don't have a precedent of large stone buildings leading up to that it's just all of a sudden, I mean, even the secara step pyramid in the labyrinth underneath that

Alex Ferrari 1:13:19
Was that consider the oldest pyramid?

Luke Caverns 1:13:21
Yeah, that's considered the first one.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:23
So that's considered the first one before the Great Pyramid.

Luke Caverns 1:13:25

Alex Ferrari 1:13:26
In the current timeline

Luke Caverns 1:13:27
Yes. And so that's why I was saying down in those labyrinths underneath that pyramid, you it's very obvious who that pyramid is built for. And then the five later pyramids which are bigger and better, no hieroglyphs no names, no nothing. That's according to the traditional timeline. So you got this step pyramid. Very obviously, that's built for you've got then it's the then it's the my doom pyramid. It's actually six pyramids. My Doom pyramid step pyramid, Red Pyramid, cuckoos, pyramid coffers, pyramid and min Curry's pyramid are all much, much more impressively built in the secara step pyramid. None of them have hieroglyphs inside of them at all. They're not decorated like the like the underside of the secara pyramid is they don't have a very obvious sarcophagus like the secara step pyramid does. And then after the construction of the Menkaure pyramid, there are others but they're all they're all completely destroyed, like fallen apart. They were constructed so badly that they actually look like they're 12,000 years old because they've just completely fallen apart

Alex Ferrari 1:14:29
It's almost like someone came upon Sure sure. Yeah. came upon the great pyramids. Yeah, and said, We let's build try to build something like this. And this is the best they they could do. Yeah, and that's why it's like the step pyramid or the bent and all this stuff because they can't Yeah, they don't know how they did it.

Luke Caverns 1:14:35
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. And I honestly used to think exactly that that like, it certainly seems like they came upon this. The deeper you go, the more strange it gets because In the Bent Pyramid, there are there are cedars from Lebanon installed in the roofing of the Bent Pyramid that are built into the pyramid that, you know, people, architectural engineers, even independent people who pay to go inside of it that aren't associated with academics or anything. They'll go inside. They're like, yeah, there's no way those were installed afterwards. Those were installed during the construction, they carbon dated, it's 4600 years old. It's like, how does any of this make sense? There's so much evidence that locks it in at about between 4500 to 5000 years old, then there's more evidence that pushes it back. Okay, maybe this is 5500 to 6000 years old, that's essential. And then and then you look at things from a logical standpoint, just approaching and you're like, well, it looks like the all these other pyramids are cheap imitation of what these were trying to be like, these people came across it. Yeah, these three different areas. How do you even how do you solve this mystery? And it's why it's the greatest mystery of all time.

Alex Ferrari 1:16:03
It's one of them. Yeah. Without without question. Yeah. So there's two things I wanted to get your point of view on? Because these are let's go down deeper in the mysteries of Egypt. Yeah, we'll get into Mesoamerican a little bit. But in Egypt, there's

Luke Caverns 1:16:16
I just want to say as well, I don't have I have absolutely nothing invested in any of these ideas. I'm just presenting the evidence as I know it. And of course, it pushes me down for selling. No, I don't have any textbooks I'm selling. Nobody's forced to buy anything from me. I don't even have any products for sale. And and if the pyramids were absolutely 100% proven to be 4600 years old, I will go. Yeah, well, the Egyptians were accomplishing some crazy stuff that we can't comprehend playing. If they're proven to be 12,000 years old, holy crap, we just, Okay, well, where's the civilization? We've got to learn? You know, we have to open up a whole new study about the civilization that built them 12,000 years ago, correct. Even if they're 1000 years older, that's a lot of rewriting of textbooks. Oh, my God. Yeah. And so I don't have I don't have a stake invested in.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:06
I don't have a dog in this fight.

Luke Caverns 1:17:07
I find I find all of the ancient world fascinating. I love the search for Atlantis and the search for lost civilizations that could have existed during the Ice Age. Just as fascinating as I find researching the Greeks and Alexandria trying to study the I mean, the Greeks and Alexandria are exactly like you and I curious, you know, intelligent guys trying to uncover the mysteries of the ancient world. And they did it. And that is really fascinating to me. But that's not it's not, it's only half as old as as the it's only half as old as the most conservative they in the pyramid, I find that I find it all fascinating.

Alex Ferrari 1:17:44
So there's two things I want to ask you about. Two things that were found in Egypt that I want to hear what traditional archaeology has to say about it, because it's so insane. Well, the obelisks that are all over Egypt, there was one very famous one that's found in the in the quarry. And there's scoops there scoop marks in the in the hardest, some of the hardest rock ever.

Luke Caverns 1:18:12
Yes, I think I think that yeah, the unfinished obelisk. I think that's right, that's a red granite,

Alex Ferrari 1:18:17
Which is like eight or nine on the hardness scale, like diamonds, 10, something like that. So it's extremely hard. And they're scoop marks, like someone took an ice cream scoop and scoop them. So explanation for the scoop marks would be one to the drill marks where they actually see you see drilled holes that are perfect. And you see engineers today look at and they go well, that's a drill hole and like how would you even comprehend doing something like this in the hardest rock? of its of its time, that kind of thing? So those two technologies that are there is proof for I'd love to hear your thoughts on what traditional archaeologists think and then what your theories are.

Luke Caverns 1:18:58
Yeah, so So okay, I'll start with the course and then we'll go to the unfinished obelisk so the cores are found all over Egypt and I believe we see them in limestone and as well as granite now the cores are are these these drill these drill holes I want to emphasize that they're not it's not just like they drilled away and turned everything that that used to be in the hole just to dust you know, and then just sweep all the dust out No, no, they literally burned it cord in there and pulled the core out. So they left what you stuck. Like guys house yeah, they left what used to be intact and you so you have this core, this cylinder just exactly like this glass of solid granite and limestone, and then you have the hole there. What the heck did they have that did that? You know that? That is That

Alex Ferrari 1:19:52
So it's not a drill. It's actually a coring.

Luke Caverns 1:19:55
Yes, it's a it's a literal coring. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:57
Of the some of the hardest rock on the planet. In a time period that they had Copper Age tools, yeah, bronze, bronze age

Luke Caverns 1:20:04
Copper, they had some bronze.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:08
This is not nothing of this is doing this, right? No, none of this

Luke Caverns 1:20:13
There's not even a precedent for like, what is the tubular technology that they're even if it's even if it's a hand crank drill that's cutting into it, and they're able to pull something out. Where's that? Well, I can imagine I can medal. Yeah, I can imagine what it would be. I can picture it in my mind, but it's not in the archaeological record. The even even what they what they say could have done it.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:38
Well, where is it? Is that what's the archaeologist? That's what traditional archaeologists

Luke Caverns 1:20:41
Well, no, no, they don't even say that. They say they say that it was

Alex Ferrari 1:20:45
Look away from the man behind the curtain.

Luke Caverns 1:20:46
Yeah. They say that it was I think they think they say that it was copper, like little copper hand. We're doing. Yeah. And so that's traditional idea. And I think Flint Dibble on the Graham Hancock debate, yeah, he says that as well. That's ridiculous. And then as far as when you go to the so the unfinished obelisk is this. It's massive. Like dinosaur sized

Alex Ferrari 1:21:11
It's like 120 tonnes or something like that?

Luke Caverns 1:21:14
1200 tons 1200. Yeah. Okay. It's massive. Yeah. Yeah. 1200 tonnes, I believe. Absolutely. Gigantic. Like it's yes. It's yeah. It's hard to imagine how big this thing is.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:26
And it was still it's still in the ground. It's still in the ground. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't think about they were planning to lift this. Yeah. And move it.

Luke Caverns 1:21:33
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that they don't because, or at least they think that they didn't, because the because the granite cracked or something like that, or it was just not it was just unfinished. But yeah, so it's so large that you jumped down into this pit that is around it. And the pit is, you know, you have you have the obelisk laying on its side. And basically, you have this giant bedrock of as one granite and you're just cutting out an obelisk inside of it to raise it up. And so you jump down into the pits that are along the sides of the obelisk, in the pits are like seven feet tall. So you know, it's towering over you even when you're standing next to it while it's laying down. And then there are the scoop marks going underneath the obelisk. And I think at one of the ends as well. And it literally looks like somebody's scooping into strawberry ice cream, right? Yeah, it's like soft strawberry ice cream. It's exactly what it looks like. And so what they say. And you you watch this, you watch this documentary before you actually get to go view it, which is very strange that to go view the unfinished obelisk, you have to You're funneled into this room where they make you watch documentaries and how the obelisk was made before you can go look at it.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:52
And it's it's their narrative. Yeah, it was their narrative.

Luke Caverns 1:22:55
So they have these dolomite stones, the the stones that are this big, and it's a very hard rock, and that they were to cut to cut the cut the obelisk out of the ground, they take the block, and then they drop it on the granite. And they're just doing that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:15
Do you mean like grinding like grinding corn into a paste?

Luke Caverns 1:23:17
Yeah, yeah. they're just they're just dropping a dolomite stone on granite dropping? Yeah, just.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:25
And it's, it's landing perfectly every time. He's silent ladies and gentlemen.

Luke Caverns 1:23:32
And yeah, for anybody listening. I just I don't know what to say. It's,

Alex Ferrari 1:23:38
It makes no sense.

Luke Caverns 1:23:40
Yeah, it makes no sense at all. I mean,

Alex Ferrari 1:23:42
Why but I understand what is the reason and they have to, they have to come up with an explanation like that, which logically doesn't make any sense. And we're now at a point where there's so much information out there that that played 50 years ago, that played 100 years ago, if you're going on a tour of the apple is and they show you a documentary, or they tell you what's going on, you'd go okay, but now there's so much information, the internet and everything

Luke Caverns 1:24:08
And there's so many so many people who are experts in different areas or different areas that are maybe more educated on this specific thing that can come they can come in and go they can come in and go on no no. And they have a platform now to send out that knowledge that can be or this or this Yeah, it can't be a can't be gate kept by anybody else anymore. Now here's here's another problem with these dolomite pounding stones. So So let's say that, let's say that you can somehow I mean think, Okay, we have to imagine we have to imagine somebody's mapped out alright, this is going to be the OB let's say they draw it and chalk along the ground. And it's just flat ground at some point and we're going to, we're going to somehow cut the world's biggest obelisk out of this bedrock. So then they go here's your dolomite ball. To start dropping a hole in the ground, yeah, from from scratch just from flat ground, boom, boom, boom. It makes no sense. It doesn't make any sense. Now. Now maybe if you're there for 1000 years, you get down here

Alex Ferrari 1:25:14
Like water dripping like water dripping on a stone.

Luke Caverns 1:25:17
Yeah, you get down at the bottom, but then you have to cut me think about this, you have to cut the ground away underneath the pyramid, or I mean underneath the obelisk to raise it out, right? You know, you've got to cut the bottom layer. How are you going to drop the How are you going to drop this this really heavy dolomite ball? How are you going to drop in a wall that's in front of you that have a tunnel underneath? That doesn't make any sense. So that's where that's where they're showing the scoop marks of from and they think the only the only other explanation they think is rather than dropping it. They're pounding it against the against the granite like this. And just I guess they're just chipping away the granite into like little tiny specks of sand.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:59
But those scoops don't look no erratic. No, they look perfectly. Yeah, like, like a machine went in and scooped it out like an iceberg. Yeah, that technique, it would look horrendous. It'd be like digital, it would be like, yeah, it look all over the place. It wouldn't be so so uniform.

Luke Caverns 1:26:17
Yeah. Well, it's so miraculous that I think I saw Ben van Kirk wake from Uncharted X, he's asked a question that's like, well, what could what could what could achieve this, I think this is when he's on on Joe Rogan. And it's so miraculous that he's like, I can't think of anything other than something that could basically melt the stone down and soften it and scoop it away, like a molecular, you know, tool to be able to melt it. It's so miraculous, that the only explanation he come up with was like, like, sci fi something, you know, that's how amazing it is. What actually did it? I have no idea what I think it what I think it is, is I think that you have people who are and we haven't gotten into this necessarily, but I think you probably have the sacred cults of knowledge, people who are doing psychedelics and tapping into something that's just so far, so far outside of the realm that that we're in right now. It's kind of like Nikola Tesla said, you know, if you start studying, if you start looking at science, things by was it the vibration frequency sounds something along those lines or waves, you will make, you'll make more strides in a decade than you have in a century in science. And I think that I think that ancient people, were probably privy to things in the natural world that we don't know. And I think that they are exposed, they were able to exploit the natural world so much more efficiently than we are. And when they were done with something, it was done, there was no there wasn't any evidence of how they did it. And that's how clean their world was. And you look at the Egyptians, they're damn near like the, the the best example of people who I mean, we see like some trash dumps and later Egyptian when they kind of lose and later Egyptian society when they kind of, you know, when the Romans showed up, when Yeah, when the Persians show up and the Greek show up and the Romans show up like we see these trash dumps, but in the Old Kingdom, and in the some of the Middle Kingdom as well. We're not seeing this. And so I think that I think that these, I will also say I think that the obelisks, I think that those are almost more, it's easier to say, okay, these are definitely Egyptian because the same kind of technology that it took to cut those obelisk out of the ground, to lift them up to make all I mean, the corners are razor sharp like that, like this table on the herbalist and obviously there are it's red granite, it's as smooth as this table. And they're also cutting into the obelisk, Egyptian hieroglyphs all up and down all of the herbalist and we see names in there

Alex Ferrari 1:28:53
With with just chisels

Luke Caverns 1:28:55
Yes. But Yeah, and angles. The angles in the proportions of the hieroglyphs on the obelisks are perfectly are perfect. And the names that are there are perfect. And so I find myself where I'm just years and years and years down this rabbit hole. I'm like, I found myself where I'm like, okay, for me, I think it's a matter of loss technology. I think there's no doubt yet. Yeah, dude, you look at the you look at the Greeks later on the Antikythera mechanism could theater, that's the computer, they could predict all of the movements of our solar system on it. It was it was like it was it was an ancient GPS. And it wasn't just one. There are literary sources that tell us that there were entire street corners in Alexandria, where a wealthy person could go buy one. And you know, the Romans come in and melt them all down and turn them into swords of quite obviously. Yeah, but cheese, but I mean, dude, like. Yeah, I mean, I think that I think that ancient people were way further along than we give them credit for. And then at the end of that lecture, didn't say, Well, we're just left to come include that the Egyptians, just by accident, by coincidence, perfectly aligned, the Great Pyramid to TrueNorth

Alex Ferrari 1:30:06
The one thing and I don't want to get into the other pyramids yet, but the one thing that when, when Dr. Dr. Ed, Dr. Bernhardt showed up, I asked him, I'm like, why is it that the rest of the world, there's pyramids all around the world, with, with, with, with civilizations that should have never had any contact with each other. And yet, they're all building pyramids. And there are a lot of them. There's not a couple. There's a lot of pyramids in, in America and the American Mesoamerica in India, and China and Japan. And they're all around that same parallel around the world, which is exactly well, how is that possible? And he's like, Well, and this is his, this was his, and I got I know, he's a friend of yours. Okay. But the the idea he said is like, Well, I think apparently, I think the best explanation for that is, human beings just eventually figured out that the pyramid is the most stable. Sure, structural idea. And I'm like, Man, that is, that's almost as bad as the what you just said, like, well, we're just here to conclude that they was just by coincidence that they didn't make it. That doesn't make any sense. It's a very easy kind of cop out, in my opinion. And that, you know, in the way that is, because that just doesn't make there's so many other mysteries involved with that conversation, which we'll get into of the how they built it, where they built it, why they built it, what's the purpose of them, all of that kind of stuff. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that connection, man.

Luke Caverns 1:31:34
Well, I think that there's the Egyptologist I was talking about earlier, Bob Brier. He has a, he has a lecture series where he talks about the mysteries of the pyramids and obelisks. And during his with everything that that guy knows about about Egypt, and all of the unorthodox ideas that he has that Egyptologist disagree with him on, he gets to the pyramids, and he goes, he goes, I'm going to explain the pyramids to you, I'm going to tell you about how it doesn't take a higher mathematics to be able to construct the pyramids, and that the pyramid shape and that the structure of the pyramid, it wasn't significant to the Egyptians. What? What do you like with all with all the other ideas? You have that I agree with? This? You know, I don't, it's fine. But um, I think that I think that and I'm starting to just kind of develop this research now on my own. I think that rather than I think, a good explanation to a lot of these ancient mysteries, something that may be able to explain them with more research, is that rather than a lost civilization, or a, a department of people, you know, like the handbag ministry, people bringing knowledge around the world, correct? Sometimes I wonder if what if that is more spiritual than it is physical? And what if people are tapping into plants and psychedelics that rather than everyone being connect rather than a physical cultural connection? Perhaps all these people in the ancient world across different timelines and 1000s of years apart, are tapping into something, and they're all seeing the same things in the same imagery. They're all getting high around the world, and coming back and coming back into their world. And that's actually the iconography, the iconography and the things that they see. Do we know that the Egyptians were were to hide off psychedelics? Yeah, I mean, you see the lotus flower all over Egyptian hieroglyphs. New research is just now showing the depth at which Greeks were Oh, Ron Hira, were on psychedelics, the Romans as well, ancient India as well. The Sumerians I mean, they're there, and and do Mesoamerica, one of those America and South America more than all of them, and even North America as well. Yeah. All over. It's all over the ancient world. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you something that I think is interesting. Some of that, I think might be the best evidence of two different cultures living at two different times, producing similar iconography, building similar architecture, and having the same political setup is the Maya and the Greeks. So the Greeks are 5000 BCE, the Maya are I'm sorry, the Greeks are 500 BCE, the Maya are 500 ad. So the height of both both cultures is 1000 years apart from each other. So and we know that without a doubt, I mean, we know that that they didn't know each other. So but when you look at the Maya world, city states, you'll get the Greek world city states, the Greek world, look at all the look at all the great battles other than the battles that they had against Persia, they're all against themselves. They're all word of each other. Yeah. You know, Sparta hated Athens and vice versa. And, you know, they all didn't like each other. Macedon had to conquer everybody to get him to, you know, to get him to all play nicely. Even that didn't work. They were hoping Alexander would die in part You know, the Maya world, exactly the same thing. People say, you know, the word Mayan empire gets thrown around. But the Mayan empire did not exist, there was never an empire because they couldn't get along. So the all they had were city states that all worship the same gods, just like in Greece, they all worship the same God, some of them put other gods above others and have their own little cults to send the other, my world exactly the same thing. The Greeks are well known for their columns, you know that their columns and all the things, the Maya have columns that are very similar, very similar as well, with the with cylindrical, you know, a cylindrical column with rectangular bases on both sides, same sort of architecture, the Maya have temples that look very similar to ancient Greek temples. And they're both prolific users of psychedelics. And they both have the most inconspicuous, most obvious, iconic pattern in their culture. Have you ever seen this pattern before? It's just a spiral. That is the most common pattern in the Greek world and the Maya world.

Alex Ferrari 1:36:07
So you're saying that this is fascinating, because now you're diving into the spiritual is that everyone's taking psychedelics of some sort, whether it's

Luke Caverns 1:36:17
For everyone watching, it's a square to spiral, you look it up,

Alex Ferrari 1:36:21
Boom, boom, boom,

Luke Caverns 1:36:22
It's called, it's called a meander. That's what they call it meandering patterns. And it's the most common pattern you see in the Greek world, and then I extend into Rome. It's the most common pattern you see in the Maya world.

Alex Ferrari 1:36:34
So you're saying that everyone's doing acid wasn't doing peyote? Everyone's doing Ayahuasca somewhere, there are tripping on some sort of psychedelic somewhere in the ancient history, ancient world. And that that is a doorway into the different realm, the other side, a higher level of consciousness, right? Yeah. So while a yogi is meditating in a cave for 30 years to get there, instead of using psychedelics, they're taking fast tracks to psychedelics. And it's a rougher ride, as well. Oh, yeah, from what I understand this psychedelic is a much rougher ride than going the long way around. Now, by them going, they're all going, they all get tickets to the same place. It's the same, it's the same party, everyone goes to the same party, no matter where you are in the world, because the other side is the other side. Yes. So they're all accessing this higher level of consciousness. And that there, the truth is the truth. Yes, pyramid is the strongest thing, the best kind of construction. And these ideas are being allowed for them to come in. So that's why the priests and the Oracles and those kinds of people were getting this information because they were high on something. Absolutely. So that information, which then becomes protected, because we can't give it to them to the common folk, they'll destroy each other with it. So that's how they that's how they they maintain power. And also they were able to, that explains the connection between all of these civilizations, which had no reason, technical reason to have any sort of connection,

Luke Caverns 1:38:04
That is my Atlantis. That is my Atlantis.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:07
So that is a wonderful, you see, that makes sense to me. Even if, I mean, there's some leaps there, you have to agree that there is another side, you have to agree on a bunch of stuff. But that doesn't make sense. It does also align in many ways with the Atlantean idea of Thoth coming over and there's like a bunch of eight or nine different chosen ones that went to different areas and, and built up these areas. That all still lines together. Both those both those stories can can be told that the same way doesn't contradict each other. But I find it very plausible that that is if you're thinking on a spiritual standpoint, very plausible from all the Swamis and Yogi's and gurus that I've spoken to. And mystics that I've spoken to the higher level of consciousness you can get to them through psychedelics, and being able to access it. That's pretty, is pretty fascinating. I wanted to I wanted to kind of finish off the Egyptian side of our conversation with two major questions. One, the basis I hear so much about the vase is Ben from Uncharted. He's He's D talks about the basis of time. Can you explain to the audience what the vases are? And what is the the importance of why there's the why they're so important, and then I'll come up with my last question.

Luke Caverns 1:39:24
Yeah, well, it's cool as an archaeology nerd to or an ancient history nerd to see you know, I saw I saw so Matt Bell, he's like the main collector of them and and Ben from on Uncharted X. He's like, the main promoter, you know, I mean, he's done so much to spread the word about how amazing these vases are. And it's so cool to see, you know, 1000 people retweet this photo of all of all of these FC predynastic vases sitting on this table and everyone's freaking out about them. That's really cool. So the thing that makes the vases I'm so amazing and so intriguing is, like we were talking about today as one granite. And we may have talked about Dyer, right a little bit, we talked about dolomite a little bit. These are some of the hardest stones on the planet. And definitely the hardest stones that ancient cultures were using in their construction. Not only were they using them in construction, actually, and for going across the established timeline, this is actually before, before, they're just cutting them into these large blocks and using them in their construction. They are making the most beautiful, well carved proportionate vases. I mean, it's that's what we see them as today as vases that the world has ever seen. I mean, a lot of these heart artists are out of out of granite die, right and Grando direct in there, maybe some dolomite vases as well.

Alex Ferrari 1:40:56
So it's for the audience to understand. It's essentially you found vases made out of diamonds, basically, and someone carved in diamonds, polished diamonds, in a way, in a way that in those times would have been inconceivable in today's time,

Luke Caverns 1:41:13
In a way in a way that is inconceivable today, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:41:16
Like, it's not even doable today is what you're saying? Almost.

Luke Caverns 1:41:21
You would take in insane investment to be able to make that happen.

Alex Ferrari 1:41:24
Yeah, I mean, we were talking about not only engineering, but diamond tip this or that.

Luke Caverns 1:41:30
Yeah, I mean, computers would have to monitor the process to make sure that the proportions, you know, and other people can explain this better than I can. But the computers would have to you couldn't do no human could make it themselves. No one would have to be Yeah, a computer, a computer would have to make the vase to make sure that the proportions are as accurate as they are. And so that's that's kind of the thing is people say, Okay, well, these may be fraudulent vases that were made today. Well that were made, you know, because they have a history in dealers over the last 100 years. So they think that maybe the late 1800s, early 1900s. These are fake phases that are made by some kind of, you know, post industrial revolution. But even then it's impossible. Yeah, it's like, it's like, okay, are you forgetting the fact that we would need a computer today to make this? They weren't doing this 100 years ago, and getting into these proportions? So it's,

Alex Ferrari 1:42:25
So the proportions of the days are perfect, is what you're saying? as well?

Luke Caverns 1:42:27
Yes. And so, so Okay, so you're taking the world's hardest, no, and I'll try to explain this the best I can. You're taking basically the ancient world's hardest stones that were used, and you're creating these vases out of them that are you know, sometimes there may be five or six inches tall, five or six inches wide. And they have an interior to them as well. Now the interior the wall, and the interior is proportionate with the wall and the exterior. So they're, they're perfectly parallel to each other from the opening of the vase all the way down.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:58
You mean, at the bottom of the width of it is perfect.

Luke Caverns 1:43:00
The width of it is perfect and perfectly proportional all the way around. That's insane. Yes, on the hardest, some of the hardest, and some of them are so within a degree of within a degree of they're perfect, I guess proportionally or they're parallel to each other. Their proportions are perfect to within 100 of a human hair. And some of the vases are so thin, that they're as thin as a human hair. Stop. Yeah, yep.

Alex Ferrari 1:43:28
Yeah, they're trans. That's impossible. Like if you were gonna go that thin. It's true. It's gonna break

Luke Caverns 1:43:33
Translucent granite. Imagine that, like you put a flashlight inside of it, and it turns into a light bulb. Yeah, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:43:40
So no wonder he's losing his mind over. Most people. Yeah, yeah. How does it How does traditional archaeology explain this?

Luke Caverns 1:43:47
That they were made by that yeah, that they were made by craftsmen in a primitive in a primitive, during a primitive era of Egypt called then the kata culture. So you have no Kata one, two and three. It's like, you know, the three different sections of necrotic culture where we witnessed the pottery change and everything. This isn't pottery. But yeah, they just say that the these primitive cultures were carving these by hand, and it's just something that they decided to stop doing before they built the pyramids. That's the

Alex Ferrari 1:44:21
They do hear themselves, right, as they speak out loud. I mean, this makes no sense. I mean, just again, logically, these vases. So how old do they think these faces are?

Luke Caverns 1:44:33
So the latest date of these vases is 3100 BCE. So right at the same time that Egypt actually is established as a nation 5400 years the oldest is about 4000. So they think 4000 to 3100

Alex Ferrari 1:44:49
BC, which BC BC so then we're looking at 6000 years old,

Luke Caverns 1:44:54
5 to 6000 like 5100 to 6000. Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:44:59
Which is technical. The older than, Oh, yeah, the pyramid?

Luke Caverns 1:45:01
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, technically, yeah, about five to 700 years older, according to the traditional timeline,

Alex Ferrari 1:45:09
Because whoever made those vases could probably make the pyramids.

Luke Caverns 1:45:13
I know, right? It's obviously the same. It's obviously the same quote unquote, technology. I mean, the same people could have done either one. And to be honest, and to be honest, who's to say, this is kind of, I don't know, it's like, I guess it's kind of a vague statement. But who's to say that, that these vases aren't harder to make than just the pyramid itself,

Alex Ferrari 1:45:35
It sounds like it's, but the thing is that the thing is fascinating is like, look at the pyramid I get, because it's a massive construction, that had a purpose that we have yet to really understand what it was, yeah, that there's something big going on there. This is like a vase. I mean, unless the vase is connected to some sort of electrical grid around the world, and happens to just be this big. This is more for decoration, or, or ceremony, or something small, because it's a small item. It's not a grand item. But the way it's made, it's made with Grant technology.

Luke Caverns 1:46:13
I mean, it has to be it has to be

Alex Ferrari 1:46:16
So then. So then this is essentially and me carving wood, fiddling wood. And making you know, a little horse out of a piece of wood,

Luke Caverns 1:46:24
Get this get this to. So I think there's a YouTube, there's a YouTube channel that tried to recreate these vases. And now, can you with an ancient lathe. So here's here's a whole other part of this mystery is that these vases, are thought to have been chiseled away by hand chisels. This idea of this idea of a lathe that you could put a stone, the best way I can describe a lathe is and I'm not an engineer, but it's a one to two people are turning a crank, and you're essentially spinning some kind of drill onto a piece of stone where you can make a vase out of it. But it's not going to have the smoothness and the proportions and the exactness of

Alex Ferrari 1:47:09
Perfect precision from top to bottom

Luke Caverns 1:47:12
It's not going to have that buy into carve, so you're going to think it, it would be more understandable if the vase was almost halfway solid. And there was one, you know, like, if I were to sit here and go to two, I could cut this very rough, ugly hole inside of a vase. But to make the walls proportionate all the way around there. How did you get in there, that's the thing. That's the thing that a lathe wouldn't be able to do. So this YouTube channel recreated the vase, the vases, but they're very rough, you know, very, very rough sand materials. Yeah, they tried to do it as close as they could. And they recreated the vase. But it's not. It's not precise. Like it's a rough. I mean, they're very, very rough vases. And it took them eight months to do it for one vase from one vase to make a rough, ugly copy of what the of what all of what these ancient pre dynastic vases look like. Now, here's the thing is that Zasa in the step pyramid of Sikar, that we talked about, he was buried with 40,000 vases of this kind, yes, 40,000 of them. So this is just that. This is yes, it's so think about that. You I would bet. I would bet anything that you and I can get in the car and go to if Austin has a museum of of ancient history or something. If there's an Egyptian section, there'll be one of these vases, they're they're that common. There's one in San Antonio that I went and took photos of last week. They're everywhere. Every single Egyptian Museum you go into you will find one of those bishops? Matt Bell has 17 of them. There had to be there had to be 1000s, hundreds of hundreds of 1000s I would say yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:48:55
That would be as common as this glass that we have.

Luke Caverns 1:48:57
Yeah. So it's so if it takes me, I just don't think there will be hundreds of 1000s of them if it took seven months, six to eight months. One, you know, no, of course. That's yeah. So that's why people were freaking out. Because it's, it's, you know, it's amazing. So, alright, so how do we get the dates, you know, because, you know, everything gets tossed up into because it's such a popular idea. Everything gets tossed up into, could this be 12,000 years old? You know, it's just an interesting topic to think about. So here's how we find them. They're basically almost all found in graves. Just because it's found in a grave from a certain time period does not mean that it is from Yeah, that it's from that time period. These are things that could have been handed down, inherited, whatever. So we find them in Nubian graves, or at least that's kind of where that's kind of where the original ones are found in the early 1900s. When they start being documented. I think they're documented the 1800s as well. When people start really taking notice because for the longest time, yeah, and the longest time in logging Timing Egyptology all they're looking for is gold, you know, so it's so funny. This this is how crazy archaeology and Egyptology could be, and we're not that far removed from it is that when Egyptology first started and archaeologists are going into Egypt, they're opening up the sarcophagus and looking for the gold. And they're grabbing the bones and like throwing them out of the way. Yeah, they're taking, you know, old royal mummies and going, get these bones out of here

Alex Ferrari 1:50:27
Like $1.50 a pound.

Luke Caverns 1:50:30
They're looking for all the treasures. They're tossing these vases to the side, you know, and all they're looking for is the treasure. Oh, it's not here. Well, let's just, let's just take all this stuff and put it in storage. And so you have the literal bones of some of the most important people in all of history in cardboard boxes today, because their sarcophagus was violated by old Egyptologist, and the flesh that was on these old mummies. to fund these archaeological expeditions. They created this, they created this like, fake scam product called Mumia. And it was supposedly it was these it was like a ground up liquefied version of ancient mummy remains. And they would sell it to people in Europe, that it was supposedly cure their ailments. So they're like violating the sites that they are. Jesus. Yeah, I mean, there. Yeah, it's there. It's isn't it? Yeah, it's crazy. We're not that we're not that far removed. We're not so so these vases start. People start taking notice around the late 1800s. And so where most of them are found are Nubian grave sites in Aswan Egypt, which is kind of at the bottom of the Nile at the southern tip of the Nile in Egypt. And so these are 5000 to 5500 year old graves that they're unearthing and we know how old they are, because you can just carpet date the person that's buried with them. And they'll have this stone vase next to him with as far as we know, nothing in the vase. Unless, you know, these archaeological digs were so poorly managed, that they didn't even document what was in it, or they turn it up and pour it upside down and like, oh, it was dirt. But really, the dirt was something else, you know, so who knows, but it's been lost. Yeah, yeah. So, so much has been lost. Um, however, when? A couple when a couple friends of mine brothers of the serpent, if you've ever seen their podcasts, there are two really, really cool guys. Yeah, Kyle and Russ. They went to Egypt, and they saw photos of what they were told was a 10,000 year old gravesite like, like early pre that, you know, they're they're museums in Egypt for pre dynastic Egypt. So dynastic Egypt is what we all think of when we imagine the Pharaoh standing like this. There are museums about what was going on in Egypt before that. And in one of them, there's a photo of what they say was a 10,000 year old grave. And in that photo is one of those stone vases. So it's been around forever. It's been around for a long time. And they're finding these vases that go back to the tip to not exactly the same bigger but similar. So this is just came out that discovery of these vases at Gobekli Tepe I think that that got publicized like two weeks ago or last week or something.

Alex Ferrari 1:53:12
Look, man, I appreciate you coming on the show. So so much, man. I look forward to our next conversation about Mesoamerica and and all the other cool stuff. But this has been honored and where can people find out more about you, man?

Luke Caverns 1:53:25
Just just basically just Google my name Luke Caverns, Luke Caverns and that's my, that's my Youtube, Instagram. And basically, I was thinking about recently, I've been thinking about, you know, I'm writing my first book, it's over the Olmecs right now. Now, I'm also writing a book on Alexandria, but that'll be a long time from now. I've been thinking about what exactly is it that I do as an anthropologist, I think what I like studying is cross cultural connections, like ancient cultures interacting with each other. And what I'm realizing is that I'm really enjoying trying to put together the puzzle pieces that we'll talk about. of ancient Central American and South American cultures, how they're interacting with each other through the jungles of Panama, which is extremely hard to, to cross even crossing the Pacific ocean or the coastlines, and how they're sharing ideas with each other. There's a lot of mystery there, as well as how the Greeks the Egyptians, and the Romans all interact in the city of Alexandria and and there's something about the way that cultures meeting that I really enjoy studying and writing and making videos about. That's so yeah, that people can that's basically what I do. And people can find my videos where I talk about mysteries of Central America, South America, and a little bit of like, Greco Roman Egypt as well. So yeah, just on YouTube, Instagram, Tik Tok. Whatever.

Alex Ferrari 1:54:51
Appreciate you, man. Thank you for everything you doing, man.

Luke Caverns 1:54:53
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. Yeah.

Links and Resources


If you enjoyed today’s episode, check us out on Apple Podcasts at and leave us a (hopefully) 5-star rating and a creative review.

Want to take your SOUL to the next level? Check out our curated Courses and Books that can help you along your path.


Embark on a captivating journey of personal growth and spiritual enlightenment with Next Level Soul TV—your delightful nook in the infinite universe of soul-stirring content. We're not merely a platform; we are a circle, a gathering of souls intertwined by curiosity and eagerness to delve deep, contemplate, and flourish together.


Want to Get the Next Level Soul App FREE?