Vatican ALTERED JESUS’ True Teachings; Rosicrucians & Sacred Geometry REVEALED! with Dr. Robert Gilbert

Dr. Robert Gilbert 0:00
The pope sent his armies to wipe up every man, woman and child, and he basically said, you know, kill them all. God will know His own. You're going to have a weak spot that will later come to destroy you and others if you don't work through your whole experience of human life.

Alex Ferrari 0:17
Hence what you had to go through in the military, like you had to go down that road again to relearn a lot of those things and just experience it correct?

I like to welcome back to the show returning champion Dr. Robert Gilbert, how you doing Dr. Robert?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 0:40
I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me again.

Alex Ferrari 0:42
Thank you so much for coming back. We had such a good time. Last time talking about you were teaching me all sorts of things, and I expect you'll teach me a few more things in this conversation, but one area that we never really touched upon. I was so fascinated with the Rosicrucians,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 0:58
Rosicrucian

Alex Ferrari 0:59
Rosicrucians. I was so fascinated with I will mess that up at least five more times. So please forgive me, but I was so fascinated with them that we never touched on sacred geometry, which is kind of something you do a little bit about you didn't know a little bit about as well. Yeah. So to start off today, what is sacred geometry for anybody who doesn't understand what it is?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:21
So sacred geometry is essentially the study of all of the patterns behind everything in creation. And the term itself, sacred geometry basically means the sacred measure of the earth. Geometry is the key there. But what it really is pointing to is that there is an invisible, energetic pattern behind everything in physical creation. And so whether you're looking at it from the perspective of biology, physics, chemistry, there's always a pattern behind everything that we see in the physical world, but it's not necessarily understood in a sacred way. It's understood as some type of dead clockwork mechanism that occurred as a random chance mutation over time, and there's no real meaning or importance behind the things that it's created, but sacred geometry is looking at the patterns behind everything in existence with the understanding that it was brought about through the tremendous effort of all types of higher realities, and has a great significance for who we are, why We're here, and for every person's own spiritual journey, what is the purpose and destiny of their lifetime? So in a simplified form, we could say that sacred geometry is the study of the patterns behind everything in creation, and then that includes all types of very high level sacred initiation knowledge from traditions all over the world which were guardians of particular parts of that knowledge. And we can also look at what's going on in modern technology and science and see the patterns that they found. And we can see that many of those patterns are, in fact, rediscoveries of patterns that were known in the ancient world, but were known in a much more sacred and holistic context than how they've been rediscovered today. So things such as the platonic solids, which people often think of when they think of the term sacred geometry, those patterns have been rediscovered in all kinds of aspects of modern chemistry, etc, but they have no frame of reference for them in the ancient world, these same patterns that were empirically rediscovered as the foundation of chemical structures for everything that exists were already known and taught 1000s of years ago in spiritual traditions around the world.

Alex Ferrari 3:58
So how old does this go back? I mean, when's the first mention of sacred geometry in whatever historical text that we have?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 4:05
Sacred geometry itself is somewhat of a more modern term. It didn't necessarily have a term of that kind in the ancient world. It was simply the understanding that different traditions had of the spiritual or energetic patterns behind everything in creation. And so we can find references to this. Going back to our earliest spiritual documents, there's all kinds of references to the energetic patterns or the creative patterns behind different parts of the world. And so in the Western world, we tend to go back to certain references that are in the Egyptian tradition, and then into the Greek tradition. The Greeks were really the foundation for the Western world being highly precise about patterns that we think of as sacred geometry today. And of course, in the east, there's all kinds of amazing. The observations and knowledge that's held in the Indian tradition, the Chinese tradition, etc.

Alex Ferrari 5:05
So how does that? How does sacred geometry connect us to the human energy field, this field that you were talking about?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 5:13
So there's an energetic pattern behind everything in creation. Again, if you study it from a modern scientific perspective, they'll consider this to be just a random evolutionary mutation process and not really have any specific significance to it, but really everything that exists, including the more esoteric realities, like the energy field the human being is based on, are all based on sacred geometry, they all have particular patterns to them. And so if you start looking into the patterns behind the human being and the human energy field in multiple traditions around the world, you'll find that some traditions are the guardians of very specific knowledge that other traditions may not talk about as precisely, and then there's some information that tends to be held amongst multiple traditions, because it's so fundamental. So I'll give you some examples of what we're talking about in terms of the energy patterns in the in the human being. So when you deal with sacred geometry, you're dealing with how things of a higher consciousness level then move from the higher spiritual planes of consciousness into the levels of energy and vibration, and those patterns at the level of energy and vibration then literally crystallize into physical form. And so this has to do with different types of energy patterns. One of the most important is what we often refer to in the West as the central column of energy. So if you see representations from the Indian the Himalayan tradition of the seven chakras, they're arranged along a vertical axis in the human body, running between the Crown and the perineum. Now the actual central column of the human body, the higher level teachings of that have been very secret for a long period of time. I'm doing my best to help make the larger esoterically minded public aware of them, because we can start putting some of those previously hidden pieces together, but the first thing you have to be aware of is that some people will train in yoga, and they will think that, well, that central column of energy is along the interior of the spine, what's called the Sushumna Channel in Indian Yoga. But that's actually not the case. That's a separate energy pattern in the human being related to the spinal energy, but the absolute center line of the human being, from the Crown Center to the perineum at the base of the trunk, is a central line of energy that is known in many traditions, although, again, often kept secret, as the most important energy channel in the human body. And this continues out the top of the head to high above the head, out the perineum between the legs, down into the earth. And today we have some fragments of information about this energy column that talk about, let's say, the first energy center above the head, which a few decades ago got popularized in metaphysical circles as being the soul star, and then potentially some other centers higher than that, but very little solid information about it. If you look at Nepalese Tonka paintings, you'll see very clear representations of the multiple centers above the head and the sacred geometric energy patterns that they hold. But it's hard to get that type of more solid representation from other traditions. The reason it's important is that we have different aspects of our consciousness and energy that are aligned along the central axis inside the human body, and then as it exits out above the crown and goes above the head with those multiple energy centers, these become centers of more advanced consciousness where more advanced activities are possible. So for example, by activating the centers above the head, it opens up certain faculties, or we think of today as clairvoyance or clairaudience. And I often like to emphasize the idea of it that using a great piece of terminology coming from the French medical doctor Samuel Sagan, from his initiation school that I trained with in Australia in the late 1990s the Claire vision school, he had a great piece of terminology where he referred to Being able to receive packed thought forms at the locations above the head. Now, packed thought forms are where we receive a tightly packed set of information in a very short period of time, like an instantaneous transmission, a download. Yes, it's a download. It's a transmission. And so often we'll be thinking of a particular topic for some period of time, then we get into a very relaxed state. May not even be thinking about anymore.

Alex Ferrari 10:10
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Dr. Robert Gilbert 11:06
But when we're in that open state, we receive an instantaneous download of a tremendous amount of information, that eureka moment, and if we try to explain it to somebody else, it may take us days to try to unpack into one word after another what we received as a packed piece of information in a second. Because there's an entire process here that is moving between the holding of information in a tightly packed form in higher consciousness, and then unpacking it into one word after another. Now everybody does this to some extent, and the secrets of how this works are based on the energy column above the head, which has a much higher vibratory rate and a higher energetic quality than anything in the human body, and how we then bring that down through the Crown Center, unpack it into the brain to be able to then express it as one word after another, which is a very slow process of transmission of information, but it's how we tend to work here within the physical body. So again, just giving you an example of sacred geometry, this central line of energy in the body has all kinds of secrets to it, about how our energy and our consciousness work, and about what are practical exercises that would be done in some classical traditions that know about this pattern and how to use it, and then lead to being able to start opening up the centers above the Head and getting more direct perception of non physical realities.

Alex Ferrari 12:43
Now, one thing that you were saying earlier, in regards to everything you just said, in regards to the center of the energy, and it kind of going out, yes, when I've studied yoga philosophies and yoga traditions, there's talk of yogis who are masters at this walking, masters who, if you walk near their energy field, you become intoxicated by their peace, their love, literally in a room like it's a field around them, and that could go out for a while, a good distance, absolutely anybody walks into it, you just become not entranced, Just intoxicated by the love and the beauty and the connection to the divine that that being has. Have you have you heard or have experienced that personally, or have you heard it? And how can you explain that with this concept of sacred geometry, of what we're talking about?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 13:36
So this is something that is actually the manifestation of the toroidal field being generated by the person who's holding that vibration. So for someone who's a true spiritual master, they can generate a huge energetic field around them that goes out a tremendous distance. There are stories, for example, that in the 1980s around badrnath, India, that there was a reappearance of Babaji. Of Babaji, yes, Maha Avatar, yes, very high level

Alex Ferrari 14:06
Right there.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 14:07
Yes. And you'll find these reports. And I'd actually spoken to some people who had experienced this at bhadranath, and that as they got closer to where this manifestation had occurred, and this person was when they got within a few miles, they just felt like they passed through a field that they were now completely embedded in, and they could feel the transmission that was coming just by being a couple of miles away. But again, what's actually happening in sacred geometry is it's a toroidal field around the person. The toroidal field is the perfect form to circulate energy, because not only is the divine center in constant, dynamic interaction with the periphery and the physical plane, but it is also creating a perfectly balanced form. Of a spherical container around that center, so that it's perfectly balanced. And so this becomes something again, that can stretch out for miles, and people will feel if they have any sensitivity when they've entered into that field.

Alex Ferrari 15:15
Now let me ask you this. This happened to me a few years ago when I went back to New York. I was raised in New York for a little bit, but I went back, and I had not been there since 911 and I went to the 911 site, and it was, it's all up and running, the museum's there and everything. But I literally, when I walked from the street, the second I just jumped onto the sidewalk, or walked onto the sidewalk, this wave of just heavy, really heavy energy, and I was not expecting it hit me, and I was just like, at that point, I made a very conscious effort to like, Okay, I need to protect myself and my family from because there was, there was a tangible energy that you felt it was something similar to like, when you're in the subway system coming from Queens, and you walk up out into Manhattan, there's just energy that kind of picks you up and lifts you off. Or when you go to Maui, you get off the plane and boof, a wall of just relaxation hits you. Yeah, all of these examples. Can you explain what is happening at those at those points that has that happened to you as well.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 16:23
So this has to do with the vibrational characteristics that then get imprinted into locations. Okay? So parts of it has to do with the intrinsic energetics of the location, somewhere like Maui, somewhere where you have Pacific Island and, yeah, it's very harmonious. But then there's also the aspects that can come from the imprinting by other beings at the site, usually human beings, that then leave an imprint energetically. So it's well known in metaphysical circles that if you go to battlegrounds, places where a lot of people had died, or places where people had tremendous amounts of suffering and fear and pain, that this has a vibrational quality to it, that vibrational quality can soak into the area and it can be quite difficult to remove. So the same thing is true somewhere like at the sites of the 911 disaster in New York, there was so much trauma and so much suffering and so much pain and shock that it gets embedded into the location. It becomes a vibrational field that soaks into the area. And so this can really happen in any location. It could even happen if someone is, let's say they're looking to buy a house, or are they going to rent an apartment, and they go somewhere, and some places feel really nice, but you go someplace and just feel this something. I feel so terrible, so uncomfortable here I can't stay I remember being a child, and I was going with my parents on a trip to Britain, and there was some old British castle that we went to, and they had a sign that one of the things you could do there is you could go into the torture chamber and and that was just kind of like done as a whole tourist type thing. And they had, like, put these terrible images on the wall of people being tortured and all, I guess, to play it up. But, and I was just a little kid at the time, I'm like, Oh, I guess this is what you do. I'll go into the torture chamber and see what's there. And I was immediately overwhelmed by the images and the vibrations that were embedded into the walls where people had been horrifically tortured for long periods of time. And I couldn't understand why so many of the tourists, they were just kind of like in a blase state, kind of nodding their heads, and that's interesting. And I'm like, you can't feel what? What's here? This is horrific. And I had to, I had to leave before the tour was over, is just the feeling was just too, too terrible. And so depending on people's levels of sensitivity, they'll pick this up sooner rather than later. And it is simply something that we find everywhere. Now, one of the really fascinating aspects of the modern work of biogeometry, coming from my friend and teacher, Dr Ibrahim Karim, in Cairo, Egypt, is that their methods to be able to analyze the energy of not only the seven planes of existence in any location. It could be in a room of a place, it could be in a home, it could be in an office, it could be an outside location. But we're able to analyze the energetics of all of the seven planes of existence, the physical, the energetic, the emotional, the mental, the causal, spiritual, divine, but we can actually break it down into testing the sub planes with. In the larger plane, so particular sub aspects of the emotional plane, for example. And then you'll find that, yes, in some places, there were terrible things that happened, and that that vibration is still embedded into the location, particularly along the at the emotional plane level, vibrational plane level, things of this kind, sometimes even very dark energies, up into the causal and spiritual level, particularly when they did what we think of today as black magic, mysteries, and sometimes in additions to initiates knowing how to analyze these things or ways to deal with them. Sometimes nature itself will respond to it. So I heard a remarkable lecture years ago by a man named sig londgren in the American Society of dowsers, where he had gone to a site in Central America where there was a pyramid, and they talked about the way that the pyramid had been built out of mortar that contained the crushed up bones of murdered, tortured, sacrificed children. And then he looked around the location of this pyramid, and he could see all these particular types of flowers, plants that he hadn't seen anywhere else, growing around it. And he asked one of the local guides know, what is this? And they answered, oh, this is a plant that our shamans know can be used to cure night terrors in children and so that the Earth responded to the horrors that had occurred there by actually creating something growing out of the earth that is for the night terrors of children to, in a way, antidote what had taken place there. So again, we find that these vibrational characteristics around us all the time. Human beings are projectors of whatever we're thinking or feeling at the time. They're being projected out of the field very, very strongly. And we don't tend to think about that too much in modern culture, in ancient world, they certainly did, but it is something that's happening all the time, and so that's why, on the esoteric path, one of the first things you need to do is rather than we usually are fairly egocentric in our spiritual work, at least in the beginning. And so we're like, oh, I want to protect myself from everybody else's Bad Juju that they're sending out of their field. But one of the sobering experiences that you have on the path then is like, Oh, well, actually, I'm sending out all kinds of crazy stuff myself. Every time I generate a detrimental thought or emotion or something of that kind, it's being projected out of my field like black arrows, and it's affecting the people around me. So when the first things you have to do is you have to clean up your own business, yeah, exactly, your own thoughts, your own feelings, etc, because all going to be projected outward.

Alex Ferrari 23:00
So in with the the idea of these energetic imprints on locations. I mean, I walked Alcatraz, and you can feel things at Alcatraz and things like that. But when I was at the Coliseum in Rome, I was up. I did not get down. I didn't go into the underneath where the glad, glad gladiators used to repair for battle. Yeah, I didn't go down into the cat, not catacombs, but down underneath. I was only up up top, and I was in awe, and I didn't feel anything outside on the top. I didn't feel anything. But from what I heard from people, the feeling underneath where the gladiators would be prepared, where they would die, where they would come out. They said the energy down there was so icky. Yeah, yeah. So it's, I'm using that as an example, that it lasts for 1000s and 1000s of years. It's not, I mean, we're talking about recent 911 Alcatraz, this is within last, even civil wars, a couple 100 years. But we're talking about the Coliseum and other areas that that's 1000s of years. So this stuff, you're like, you're right, it can hold into these places for a long, long time,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 24:08
Absolutely.

Alex Ferrari 24:10
So let me ask you, you mentioned this earlier, that in Scotland, they were seeing in some museums elements of sacred geometry. That is far, far earlier than what the Greeks were even talking about.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 24:23
Well, we have from the records from them.

Alex Ferrari 24:25
From the records that we have from them. So my question to you is, and this is a deeper question, might go down some rabbit holes with this question.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 24:32
Sure.

Alex Ferrari 24:33
It seems, from my studies as well, that we were more evolved on certain levels, older, farther back past the Egyptian the Egyptians and all that, that when we we kind of devolved down till we get to the Dark Ages, which is probably as devolved as we have been the last 10,000 years. And please correct me if I'm wrong. We're now. We're. Are kind of on an upward swing, which kind of coincides with the yugas, and that idea of Yukteswar, another, another gentleman who's on the wall behind me exactly, do you if you do under if you believe what I'm saying, or make sense to you? Does that mean that we, if we agree with the yugas? That means that we've cycled multiple times, and this and this is not the first time around for humanity, and there was a catastrophic event that kind of zeroed everything out. And a few people now we're getting a little bit more esoteric, a few people from, let's say, a higher civilization left and tried to rebuild civilization. It would be the equivalent of a nuclear war going off. You and me are the last couple, maybe a handful of other people who've been on the show. And we all go, Okay, you go down to Mexico. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this boat that we have here, and we're gonna go over to Egypt, and we're gonna, and we're gonna try to bring up whatever people there. We're gonna try to give them this information and try to bring them back up. And that's where you see these glimpses of advanced thought, advanced ideas that not are laid out like they are now in a tablet or a computer, but these ideas were around before, and we kind of devolved, and now we're rediscovering, does any of what I just said made sense?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 26:11
Yes, absolutely, it's sometimes a difficult topic to discuss in modern times, because we live in a time where there's so much speculation about these things that often people's random speculations are presented as fact, and then there's just been so much in so many different directions that the water gets very muddy. But let's go back to what are the actual historical records related to things like this? So there are records related to water catastrophe, things like that throughout the world. You find that in the writings of the Pythagorean tradition, and particularly found in the works of Plato, that when the Greeks went to study in the Egyptian temples, then you can find this in Plato's works like Timaeus, that there's a discussion where the Egyptian priests are talking to the Greeks that have come there to study, and they're somewhat being playful with them, and they're saying things like, Oh, you Greeks are like little children. There is no ancient knowledge among you that our knowledge comes from a previous civilization that was destroyed, and this was Atlantis. So sometimes people think Atlantis as some kind of modern, New Age metaphysical invention, rather than something found in historical records that the Egyptians are saying, Oh yeah, that's where we got our our knowledge from. And then you'll see the remarkable reality of it, that some of the things that have been left to us from the Egyptian Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, seem much more beautiful and perfect than the things from the New Kingdom. There's like a real devolution going into the New Kingdom, remnants that we see that it's like they had a very high culture very early. So a lot of what we're taught today about, you know, we were just cavemen, and then everything's been an upward ascent, and we didn't know or have anything significant before that is fairly ridiculous. And of course, there's been whole compendiums of information about what we have from historical records demonstrating ideas of this kind, such as the book Forbidden Archeology and things like this, where the final kind of documentation for it. So there is a process going on here that has to do with moving through alchemical cycles. And so that's related to what you described with the yugas. So the yugas are the four stage alchemical cycle described in the Vedic tradition in the Himalayas, related to the alchemical process that living beings go through over time and great civilizations now, the amount of time that we're actually talking about. There's some debate amongst this. With Vedic scholars, you mentioned Sri Yukteswar, and from some reckonings of the Kali Yuga, they'll say it's we're in the midst of it. It's going to go on a lot longer. But according to Sri Yukteswar, his book The Holy science, which he says he got the information from Babaji. He's saying that, essentially, the end of the Kali Yuga was 1899 and that we are now moving into the new age of light. Now he has a particular way of reckoning this, as far as numbers of years and cycles and things, and again, other parts of the Vedic tradition say, no, no, it's a much longer cycle. And so it could be cycles within cycles. But what's fascinating to me about this is that the 1899 end date for the Kali Yuga agrees perfectly with the end date for Kali Yuga that's given by Rudolf Steiner in the Rosicrucian tradition, the exact same date from two very different traditions. And you. Using different numeric, numerical reckonings for arriving

Alex Ferrari 30:04
Before, way before Yukteswar correct around the same time period?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 30:09
When Steiner talked about it, it was slightly after the publication of the holy science, but he talked about it as something that was held within the Rosicrucian organization previous to the publication of Sri Yukteswar work. And of course, for people that understand the Rosicrucian tradition, a lot of it was held very, very hidden and was revealed for the first time by the work of Rudolf Steiner, who died in 1925 and in fact, there was a lot of resistance to Steiner and many esoteric groups around the world because they weren't appreciating that he was revealing things esoterically that had been kept very hidden before. And in fact, if you were to collect all of Steiner's written works and the transcripts of his lectures that have also been put into books. It's a library of more than 350 volumes. It's an incredible library of esoteric knowledge coming from Steiner and so the fact that the Rosicrucian tradition and the Vedic tradition of India have agree, at least for the Babaji part of it on the year 1899 for the end of the Kali Yuga, is something very significant. So that's related to this moving into a new age of light. Now, we shouldn't think that oh, because we're just transitioned over, everything's going to be hunky dory. It can actually be some of the most difficult parts of the transition, and the transition can take quite a while and have quite a lot of challenges to it. So this is one thing that we're seeing as an alchemical process in the background. Now this is also related to the development of different faculties during different phases of an alchemical process. So when we say that there was more advanced knowledge in the ancient world, I think that was absolutely true, in a way that is not appreciated by modern science. Today, in understanding the holistic context of how things fit together and the spiritual foundations of the world, there's indications, and there's certainly the belief of the European Rosicrucians that in earlier times, human beings were effortlessly clairvoyant. They perceived energy fields around things. They perceived non physical beings around them all the time. And so one of the things that's been almost forgotten today is that we live in a spiritual world. The physical world is just like the tip of an iceberg. It's one small part the physical plane, above which we have multiple other planes that create and inform and sustain the physical world. And so there's all these things going on all the time around us with non physical realities, non physical beings around us that in the ancient world, we could effortlessly see. So the older you go back to text, people are talking about spiritual beings, non physical beings, as something like, oh yeah. So like, we see them all the time. They're all around us. Now today, we kind of chalk that up to an ancient superstition. But it's believed, again by the rusicrucians, that no in ancient times people had very active faculties of what we think of as clairvoyant, and they could perceive these non physical worlds and beings around them all the time. Now, what happened in the alchemical process is that for us to develop new faculties, to be able to truly master and understand the physical plane and to become crystallized as a fully conscious spiritual being. Through incarnating on the physical plane and a constant reiterative alchemical process, there was the need to lose the ancient form of clairvoyance so that we could move this larger holographic field of information around the head that Sir John Eccles talked about collapse it into the brain and start to master the brain. So it's understood that references in the ancient worlds to things like the Minotaur and the labyrinth are related to our getting control over the physical brain, the mind.

Alex Ferrari 34:15
So dive into that, because I'm very familiar with that myth. How do you use the Minotaur and the labyrinth as an example of this a metaphor.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 34:24
So part of it is purely on the geometric basis, that if you look at a maze, a labyrinth, it is similar to the form of the folds in the human brain that we are ourselves caught in the labyrinth, in the maze, and we have to learn how to navigate our way through it, so we can begin to activate the frontal lobes get away from some of the terrors and difficulties that are contained in the reptile brain and things of this kind,

Alex Ferrari 34:54
The really low vibrational.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 34:56
Yeah, although I don't want to be too. Negative about it, because what we think of as the reptile brain, like these areas back here are also known in some traditions as the ancient palace, and there's some massive primordial states of awareness that we can connect to through these but most people never do because it's like very, very deep stuff. But we had to develop the frontal lobes, which we have over time, and in this process, we began to shrink the etheric body around the human being. One reason today we're having a type of psychedelic Renaissance. And when people do psychotropics, one of the reasons that they're start to once again perceive energy fields, non physical realities, things of this kind, and sometimes it can be hallucinatory rather than a true vision, but that's based on the structure of a person's chakras. If the chakras are perfectly balanced, they may see things that are actually real. Otherwise, they may be distorted perceptions based on the structure of the energy fields and centers. But one thing that's happening with that, that's why people are perceiving things, is that during the time that you're taking the psychotropic, it's expanding the energy field beyond the physical body itself, much more so than normal. Now, depending on the amount you do, there will then be a snapback later, and you have a couple of days you have to recover from the experience. But during that time of the expansion, you're kind of getting back to where people were in an earlier time to perceive these types of things. And so there was the process where we went into the human brain, we began to shrink the etheric boundaries of the energy around the body, so that we really moved into the physical body, really felt ourselves incarnated in the body. We could use the brain in a more practical way. And this then led to all of the changes of consciousness over time, in which people used to identify as part of a group, and in the ancient world, to be cast out from your tribe was considered to be one of the worst things imaginable, a fate worse than death today, if somebody was said, Well, we can send you to prison for the rest of your life, or we can, you can just leave town. I'll leave town. But this different state of consciousness where people felt they didn't have any identity outside of the group unit, whereas today we feel so separate from the group and so independent. But that came during this whole process of moving into the brain and losing our consciousness of our connection to all of creation and the world around us. And so this has gone on now for quite some time through this Kali Yuga process, and so it has a purpose to it. Sometimes it can be presented as just, oh, we went through a terrible dark age, or we're still in a terrible dark age. But we have to always understand it's going to be part of an alchemical process that has a purpose, that has a meaning to it. So this is something that's very prominently found in the European Rosicrucian tradition, and again, especially with the work of Rudolf Steiner, who I believe is the most advanced, true Rosicrucian teacher ever to make themselves public. And so he talked about the way that now that we've passed through the Kali Yuga period, we've become so individual, so separated out from everything else, we've lost the old clairvoyance. He said that it's not a matter of necessarily getting back the old form of clairvoyance. It's a matter of getting a new form of clairvoyance. And this new form of clairvoyance is a type of super heightened, super activated thinking process that human thinking is something that's already, to some degree, the seeds of a new clairvoyance. So if you look at very advanced scientific work, where they were to come up with all of these concepts in physics and these types of things, that's very advanced work, and it's already starting to develop a type of of new clairvoyance. So in the ancient world, we didn't necessarily have the ability to direct the clairvoyance the way that we can direct our thinking today. Today, I can decide, oh, I'm going to think about some advanced problem in mathematics, and I'm going to think it through, or this physics issue, or whatever it is, and I can think it through. I can stay on that track. I can direct my thoughts to a target in the ancient world, the clairvoyance was more a kind of dreamy things floating around you, and beings may bring things to you and show you things, or whatever it is, but today, it's much more directed the way the thinking is directed. So what the Rosicrucians talk about is it's possible to develop our thinking process, to become the seed of a new form of independent and directable clairvoyance, to look into things and to explore them at a deeper detail. And so this is then completing an alchemical stage in which we lost the old clairvoyance, we developed new logical, rational thinking capacities that all of our new science and technology is based on. And. Now not losing what we've worked so hard to gain for 1000s of years, but now employing that to go back to developing a new form of clairvoyance to perceive non physical realities.

Alex Ferrari 40:13
I have to ask you, Robert, I mean, you've been doing this, how many years now?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 40:16
Well, I'll be 63 in November, so I've been thinking about this most of my life.

Alex Ferrari 40:23
So from the moment that you started down this esoteric path to where you are now, how does it feel to be that more and more people are interested in this idea that you're coming onto shows that are being seen by millions of people? I imagine 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. I'm imagining if you got a room full of in the hotel somewhere, in some sort of ballroom, if you got 50 people to show up, you were like, jumping up and down. Am I wrong in that sense?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 40:55
No, that's very true.

Alex Ferrari 40:57
How do you feel about this now?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 40:58
I'm not sure that it's that in the last 10 years, for example, that it's been just the aspect of more people, although I do think it's constantly increasing, I totally there's an awakening. But certainly when I was active back in the 80s, 90s, et cetera, it was very, very active. But we didn't necessarily have the technological infrastructure to be able to communicate so well and so quickly, and so not only is that leading to an exponential growth and number of people interested in this, which I do think is happening, but again, there's a lot of people already, by the 80s, etc, that were really on this. It really came out of the 60s. Sure, 60s people began to open up to these greater ideas generated more through the 70s and the 80s. There was a whole community, but we didn't have the infrastructure at the time that we have today, with podcasts and things to get ideas out. So that's fantastic. It is absolutely wonderful to see what's happening. But I often refer to one aspect of this as a blessing and a curse. So the blessing of the time we have today is that, particularly, if we take a look at what in previous lifetimes we had to deal with, that you'd have to join one particular group for the rest of your life, and maybe after 20 years, they tell you a little bit of something secret or significant and very hard to get any other information that today you can find all kinds of previously secret, highly advanced information from traditions all over the world. The Tibetans, Central Americans, people all over the world have released highly advanced information you simply can get your hands on before, and sometimes you can get it, you know, for 1995 buying a paperback, that's astonishing. What's happened with that and with the growth of social media that now, with podcasts and all of our communication technologies, things can get spread very quickly. It's amazing. But again, that's the blessing side. The curse side is that the information has become so fragmented and in many cases corrupted that it's very hard for people to know how the fragmented pieces fit back together into a coherent whole. And that's always been what my interest is, to work for myself, to put things back together into a coherent whole. And then I found people were very interested in hearing about this as well, and my goal is to save people as much time as possible to not have to recreate the wheel to see how various bodies of work may fit together, so people can create a path for themselves that's very, very direct, because we all have our own particular spiritual destiny or purpose. I often talk about the key questions everybody has in life, which is, Who am I in the deepest, most existential sense, why am I here? And then, what have I incarnated to do in this particular lifetime that I need to achieve before this lifetime is over? Because life is a limited time opportunity, and when you're on the other side of it, if you haven't accomplished what you came here to do, then you will regret it, and not only will you suffer for it, but other people will suffer too, because you didn't do the work that you could have done while you were here. And so this is something that I think is very significant today, and I often talk about the way that my observation huge numbers of human beings are so beaten down by fragmented information, all of the pathologies that are present in culture today, and just the suffering and confusion of physical life today, where so Many support mechanisms have been taken away from people that they can barely get through the day, much less understand how to manifest what their spiritual purpose was upon incarnation, and so many people are not fulfilling their karmic contract, and then that leads to a worsening situation for everyone but. So the more we can wake people up to, you know, you have a purpose, and it is possible to remember who you are, why you're here, what you need to do, and to put that together. Your mission in life, your purpose over time, may be different than mine, but there are certain universal pieces that at least, let's get this back on the table so people can have something to work with to get their bearings in a very confusing situation in modern times.

Alex Ferrari 45:33
But do you believe that? I think, as we go through the you, as we're going through the Kali yugas, that we are evolving more, we are awakening more we're more open to these ideas than we were even, even 50 years ago. Because there are, there's, I mean, I have a lot of interesting, esoteric conversations, yes, yes, this wouldn't have been on national television. Yes, in 1985 like, that's true. It just wouldn't. It wouldn't have done it. Though I agree with everything you're saying. I do believe that there is some sort of awakening, because people are searching yes for these shows. I don't have $100 million budget for marketing, right? They're finding us, they're finding this show, they're finding these conversations. So they're searching for it. It's that because you don't just like, hey, I was looking for funny cat videos, conversation about esoterica, sacred geometry, it just seems interesting. People are searching for this kind of information. So do you agree that there is some sort of thing connection with the Kali Yuga in that sense that we are awakening as a species, and it's going to be rough over these next possibly?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 46:36
Absolutely. And so you know this idea that the Kali Yuga ended in 1899 which is agreed upon with the Babaji lineage in the Himalayas and with the Rosicrucians in the West, we can actually see changes in society and structures related to this. Now, one part of it is, this, is the growth of modern technology, which really began around 1899 I mean, that was when we began industrial even electrification of the world, all these things. But also before that time, people might be able to gather in spiritual groups that were based around one particular tradition or religion or something like that. But it wasn't until the late 1800s that the Theosophical foundation got founded, and that became a place that people could come together to discuss metaphysics in general from multiple traditions. And today, the Theosophical Society is certainly not what it once was. But if we were 140 years ago, it was an entirely different force in the world, very different situation at the time, but that something became an international organization where people could come together and talk about esoteric realities, spiritual realities, from multiple perspectives that were not restricted to the dogma of a particular religion. That was a huge international development massive. And so from that time, we have seen the development of modern metaphysics in the last 100 and plus years, in a way that's absolutely incredible, and we do now have some it's very natural for people today to think in terms of reincarnation, karma, chakras.

Alex Ferrari 48:21
Near death experience, the other sides go to the light, all that stuff.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 48:24
And for a lot of people, if they don't believe in it, they understand the concept, right? Whereas 100 years ago, a lot of people would never know what these concepts were. They'd had no idea of it. And of course, today, in our superficial culture, it tends to be something that gets mocked in Hollywood productions and things, and whatever it be, the extremes of metaphysical people going off the rails and the woo, woo and things then so that it tends to often still be focused on in mainstream stuff as something farcical. But nonetheless, it is something that's developing very quickly, because society is getting to a place that's very existential, and people are wondering, why am I here? Is it even worth being being alive? And so at that point, you're having to deal with these core questions of human existence. And again, I think what we just need to do at this point is give people enough information to be able to construct a coherent understanding of what are the spiritual foundations of human existence, and that you have limited time, and you may want to take advantage of this opportunity.

Alex Ferrari 49:31
Now let's move over to the Rosicrucians, Rosicrucian Rosicrucians, um, the time period that they were coming up and there, and they started preaching a lot of this kind of concepts. How did that mix with the Vatican? How did that mix with Gen you know, because from my understanding, from our last conversation, they did talk about like, these very esoteric concepts, not only. From Jesus Christ's life and other things, the Vatican is has a very different stance on it. Yeah, was there ever budding heads? You know, had a had one of the nights at a grand master, the Knights Templar here the other day, and the Vatican and Templars had a little bit of a of a situation. Historically, I didn't find anything with the Rosicrucians like that. But is there anything that was there any mixing, mixing of the two? Did they have animosity towards each other? Did one try to stifle like any, any connection?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 50:31
Yes. So to give a little bit more context to it, we need to see the development of the Western tradition over time. According to the Egyptians themselves, earlier knowledge was held in the Atlantean period. In the Rosicrucian tradition, it's believed that from the Atlantean period, where there was a great water disaster, etc, many traditions talking about the flood, etc, that different things went out to different places. For example, from that high culture. There was one branch going out to the Indus Valley, and that became the Vedic tradition of India. Then, of course, there was the aspect in Egypt where we think of for the West as Egyptian culture. And then when the Egyptian high spiritual science began to die out, they began to consciousness. Was changing. You know, there was conquest by the Romans, all kinds of things. Then some of that knowledge went to the Jewish Kabbalah, particularly the sacred geometry of time. And then some of it went to the Greek Kabbalah, particularly the sacred geometry of space. And then as this developed further, you have the foundations of Christianity and the Essenes. And with the beginnings of esoteric Christianity, there was still a foundation in Egypt. So the writings of the early church father origin from the early Christian centuries, and Alexandria, Egypt, and at this point, Christianity still contained knowledge of reincarnation and things of this kind, which they referred to as the transmigration of souls. So it's still well worthwhile for people today to read books like on first principles by origin from 1800 years ago. It has incredible observations for the fundamental spiritual realities of the world that were one time in Christianity and then were taken out by the Catholic Church in a whole series of church councils and things Council, nicea and so on, and so what happens over time is that there are rejuvenative impulses that come in. So one of these was the Holy Grail tradition around the eight hundreds. Now my personal belief is that a lot of the information about the Holy Grail tradition has been corrupted in the last 40 or so years, particularly based on a bunch of forged documents and false teachings coming from Pierre plantard In France, whose ideas were then promulgated in a book called The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, and that then led to a whole cottage industry of false information about the Holy Grail tradition that has been thoroughly debunked from the original French sources. But since a lot of people don't read French, they don't even know it's been thoroughly debunked. And so now people still read those books, and then they come up with new theories, and they're just building a whole superstructure of esoteric concepts based on a shaky foundation, but the original Grail tradition in Europe was about human beings don't have to go through a centralized external structure to connect to spirit. Human beings connect directly to spirit through what we started out talking about the central column, the vertical column of energy in the body, this gets activated, and we can connect ourselves to higher spiritual realities. Higher spiritual beings receive pack thought forms from higher beings, all these types of things. And this then led particularly to the formation of the Grail groups in the south of France that now bringing in the Catholic church, the Catholic Church was completely opposed to this. Now, let me just bring in a quick side note. The great Russian philosopher Gurdjieff talks about the way that people start on a particular spiritual trajectory. I would say that was true of the Catholic Church in the beginning that particular trajectory with the original Christian teachings, kind of things that included reincarnation, karma, teachings of origin, etc. And then over time, what he says is, if you're not careful your spiritual trajectory, you won't even know it. It'll start making a U turn and go around the exact opposite direction. So you have to get corrective shocks in your life at certain points. To keep you going the right direction of where you're trying to get your spiritual evolution. Otherwise, it'll make a U turn and you'll end up going the exact opposite direction that you thought you were going. Well, that obviously had happened to the Catholic Church by the time of the formation of the Grail groups in the south of France, the most famous of them being the Cathars, but there are other ones as well that

Alex Ferrari 55:22
The Templars had a little something to do with it, too. Legendarily speaking.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 55:25
Yes, that's a that's a bit of a side thing compared to what I'm describing now with the Grail communities south of France. These were, like groups of people living in the South of France that were really developing Grail communities

Alex Ferrari 55:39
Based on this grail communities. What do you mean by a grail, like just around the concept of the idea of the Grail?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 55:44
That's right.

Alex Ferrari 55:44
Is that a physical cup, like it is in Indiana Jones, yeah.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 55:48
Well, again, this, there's something in Rosicrucianism called occult materialism, and that is where higher spiritual realities get corrupted into being presented in purely physical forms. So yeah, originally, there was a physical cup that contained the blood of Christ at the time of the crucifixion. But this is really much more of a metaphor, in that every human being is, in fact, a grail cup that receives a solar logos from the central column coming down into the body, just like you see the pictures of Christ and or Jesus becoming Christ in the Jordan with baptism by John, and in these classic illustrations, you'll see Jesus there in the Jordan, and there is an illuminated column coming from above his head into the Crown Center, which is descending the dove of the Holy Spirit. Now, this is actually indicating the actual energetic principles involved here. Now, what a grail cup is, is a representation of the interior of the Taurus. That's exactly what a grail cup is, wide at the bottom, white at the top, narrow in the center, and in the best representation of of this, the handles are shaped in the form of a heart. And so you'll see in some of the imagery that I use with the Vesica Institute for some of our courses and things, I use that form of the Grail cup. So they understood that the Holy Grail tradition was about having a living spiritual practice and existence that they supported each other on, that didn't go through external authorities or an external institution, but you would connect directly to spirit, and you'd bring these forces down the column into your toroidal field of the Grail cup of your own energy body, which includes the solar forces of the Christ being, was part of that original understanding other forces as well, but that's a very significant one of them, with the understanding from this perspective that the Christ being is essentially the solar logos and is the sense the higher self of Humanity. It is the being that is a direct emanation of the Godhead that holds, at a higher level, the possibilities of the activation of spiritual powers within the human being. And this was exactly what you'll find in the original Christian teachings coming from origin in the book on first principles, where he describes who and what is the Christ being. So these Grail communities were literally men, women, children, living together in groups, very active spiritual life, developing something of tremendous power and significance. And then, of course, because the Catholic Church had done the classic U turn described by Gurdjieff, the pope sent his armies to wipe out every man, woman and child.

Alex Ferrari 58:44
Very Christ like, by the way, very, very Christ like.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 58:47
This is where the whole term comes about, kill them all. God will sort them out. And that actual term, it's a slightly changed from the original languaging, but it's actually when they were asking one of the leaders of the Pope's armies, what do we do about the women and the children and all about from the people who are the heretics and those that aren't? And he basically said, you know, kill them all. God will know His own. And so they, they slaughtered every man, woman and child in these Grail communities in the south of France. Now, this same impulse then also manifested within the order of the Knights Templar, which is a whole other conversation, they were working on all types of things. First of all, they had taken vows of chastity and obedience and poverty, and so they actually became the first international bankers, in a way that was based on a system that didn't become what international banking later became, which was all about consolidating, controlling all the money in a centralized way, and everybody else gets screwed. It was really to be able to create a system where they themselves owned nothing, and they were developed. Upping a whole system for this, as well as what they were doing in the world as a military order. But there was a real powerful, a real, true spiritual impulse, I believe, very related to the Holy Grail and this same esoteric tradition that was within the Knights Templar, and was no doubt, one part of the motivation for when the King of France controlling the pope at a later time, then had him destroy the Knights Templar and on Friday the 13th, yes, exactly. So there's a whole thing there at the Templar. I think the Templars were a fantastic, very positive organization, and they also fell victim to when you're trying to do something positive with the spiritual trajectory, the institutional forces will come get you.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:45
Well, that's in every path of from medicine today to food industry to pharmaceuticals to money to media. And anytime you go against the mainstream or the or the powers that be, they're going to fight back absolutely but until the point of when the people just finally say, No, enough is enough.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:01:04
That's right. And so you then see, as the foundation here, this is leading to the question about the Rosicrucians, because this is coming out of that. So you then have that the Rosicrucians themselves say it was in the 1400s around 1459 that a particular, very advanced spiritual initiate was initiated by 12 other great initiates, and that central initiate became known as Christian rosenkroits, not his birth name. It's like a title. And so Christian rosenkreutz then founded this new establishment on the earth of this spiritual knowledge. After the Grail groups in the south of France got destroyed, after the Knights Templar got destroyed, they're founding something else to bring this progressive spiritual impulse forward, again, very connected to being independent. Now what this means is that they were developing an independent path of spiritual initiation that didn't require an external institution to go through, because the Catholic Church demanded that you go through them to connect to spirit. And of course, that became very, very toxic. And instead, the whole thing is no you can connect directly to spirit, not only is that your birthright and a possibility, it's absolutely essential for the healthy development of the human race that you do have your own direct connection to spirit.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:33
Of course, it's the concept of self realization.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:02:35
Absolutely

Alex Ferrari 1:02:36
It's, you know, it's what Yogananda spoke about so beautifully when he was here is to self realize who you truly are, yes and having that connection to Source itself, which is a message that I talk about ad nauseam on this show, because it's something that needs to be said. Yes, a lot of people still are kind of asleep, and they think that they need to give their power away, yes, to an outside source of themselves. And by the way, there's always someone who says, Oh, I'll take care of that.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:03:03
Absolutely

Alex Ferrari 1:03:04
Throughout history,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:03:06
Absolutely.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:06
So can you talk a little bit about what the Rosicrucians said in regards to self realization? How does one become self realized outside of dogma of all sorts? And I pick on the Catholics as I'm a recovering Catholic myself, but Buddhist, any kind of dog dogmatic organization a lot of times. And Buddhism is not a great because that's more philosophy, more philosophy than an organized thing. But any organized traditions, seems like you need to come through us, as opposed to we'll help you on your way. Yeah, and let you you the powers within you if you need some guidance. Here are some tips. Here are some things that we've learned along the way for you to find access to this power yourself as a great guru or great teacher, would it's not like I am the only way as your teacher to get to where you need to be. No, no, I'm here to teach you exactly what to do on the show every day.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:04:03
Yeah, absolutely so. Again, according to the Rosicrucian John 1459, there was this establishment of what became the Rosicrucian tradition. But again, it's never been a hierarchical structure. One problem that came in later is that as people wanted to follow teach Rosicrucian principles, they would then create a Rosicrucian organization. And that's okay, if you just kept it fairly light. But often what they would do is they would then bring in Masonic types of organization in which people had to join an organization and work through grades so and so. What you'll find then is that at a later time, well, the Masons themselves will say that they were operative Masons until around the 1700s and meaning that they built cathedrals. They were Masons that built sacred spaces. So. But then they became what became known as speculative Masons. And so at that point, they began to be more of a fraternal organization the people could join. And it had social advantages and things of this kind. And it evolved in particular ways in Britain and France and America and things of that kind. But it changed over time. By the 1800s people like Albert Pike were already publishing books saying, we've lost the keys to our mysteries. We don't even know what the rituals mean anymore. And this is from people at the very height of the Masonic Order that in the mid 1800s were saying, we don't know what the rituals mean anymore. So there's development here that when people said, Oh, I really want to create, like a Rosicrucian organization in the beginning, there's no Rosicrucian central organization. You know, no salesman will call on you. There's nothing to join externally. And so people didn't even know really about the Rosicrucians until the publication of certain books, usually in German, in the early 1600s and then there was what was called the Rosicrucian furor, in which some of these books were published, and they talked about these hidden Rosicrucians that were like modern Christian initiates, and how Advanced the knowledge was. This was deeply connected to the Protestant Reformation, because the Protestant Reformation was already about we can't let the Catholic Church keep controlling Christianity. There has to be a free spiritual path in Christianity that's independent of this shock. Now, again, once they had the Protestant Reformation and religious wars all over Europe. All these people got killed. No were trying to impose the power of the Pope with the Catholics or no were trying to get freed for a Protestant thing. Then Protestant churches began to form. They often became very authoritarian, although not as authoritarian as the Catholic Church in all the ways that people normally do these things. But at that time, because the Protestant Reformation had been happening in some of those parts of the world, prayer had gone the furthest. That's where this whole Rosicrucian idea caught on. Because today, if you go to India with the whole idea of the Hindu religion, which is kind of a blanket term for something that has a lot of different branches to it, from the whole Himalayan tradition. You know, if you say, oh, where's like, the esoteric masters of this tradition? Oh, there's this guru and this guru and all these really advanced people that you can point out. But if you say that in the West, it's like, Oh, where are all the great Christian initiates? I mean, not just intellectual, but who can, like, do miraculous things. You don't really see that much. And this was talking about the existence of people that are real Christian initiates, that have those same types of powers, but in a Christian context.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:51
So to stop there for a second. So when you're saying that someone like St. Francis Assisi, St Thomas Aquinas, even earlier, Mother Teresa. Now it sounds like the saints, when they're sainted, it through the Catholic Church. Those they they perform miracles, but they're definitely not on par with Jesus, like Jesus is the one and the only and, and that's the kind of the only initiate there is where, in the Hindu tradition there are multiple masters. There's Babaji, there's everyone on this wall is an Ascended Master, an avatar who brought great light into the world and have different teachings, but maybe, you know, just a different perspective on we're all talking about the same thing, just different flavors of the same thing. But is that what you mean, like in the Christian faith?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:08:38
Yes. Who would you point two, in the Christian world that would have the abilities of some of these Hindu saints. And so they do exist. But one of the ways that things developed in the West is that it became more and more difficult for these people to present themselves publicly. And so with this idea that, Oh, there are real spiritual initiates, masters, etc, in the Christian lineage that exist in the West, and these hidden Rosicrucian masters that became a big thing in like the 1600s and so the Rosicrucian idea moved forward. At that time, people that were Rosicrucians were really connecting through the central column to spiritual sources of inspiration and things of this kind. And there is no real central physical organization. But then people desire to create physical organizations for developing on an esoteric initiatory path in the Christian tradition. But again, they kind of, then often would lose the way, because I think as soon as you bring in a Masonic style of organization where you're working through grades, you're working through the organization, people start putting more attention on political development into higher grades in the organization than actually direct connection and core spiritual development. Yeah, and so you still have that today. A lot of times, when I talk to people about Rosicrucian things, and they say, Oh, well, you must be a part of this Rosicrucian organization, or that Rosicrucian organization.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:09
There needs to be this kind of organization about it. So if you're a Kung Fu Master, what belt are you? Yeah, you know, you have to get the different belts where, if you go to Shaolin in China, in the traditional Shaolin monks, they don't have belts. That's right, exactly. They just are masters, yeah, because it's not necessary. In regards to this leveling up, I think that leveling up aspect, too is very western in thought, because there's no belt Yogi's. There's no levels that you get to. What Yogi level are you at? Your level seven or a level? There's none of that. They just are correct?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:10:49
Yes. So in the Rosicrucian tradition to begin with, there are no gurus in the sense of what you have in India, which is a very ancient structure, the Rosicrucian approach to this is that you might have an elder brother or sister on the path, but they don't have any coercive power over anyone. They can tell you what their understanding is of things, if that might help you along. But none of it is a dogma. So there's, there's no dogma that you have to to swallow. It's all about complete freedom in spiritual life. Now, at the same time again, because there's no central organization in its true form, there's, it's fairly loose to begin with, but it's really about, there has to be absolute spiritual freedom for people to find their own way, and it's all about getting people to connect directly. So even very advanced people in the Rosicrucian path don't present themselves as gurus, but they are masters in the sense of not a master of another person, but as someone who has mastered higher levels of the crystallization of Siddhas and powers and things of that kind.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:04
So this is what we consider a yogi, the yogi powers that we the levitation, biolocation, manifestation. These are kind of ideas like famously yogic powers, because they're reaching different cities or different levels in their own evolution. And it's a side. It's kind of like a sex as a side, side effect, if you will, of it. Yeah, that's why I always looked, when I looked at Jesus's path like he sounds very yogic. A lot of the things he was doing were very, very yogic. Just by comparing the two, would you agree?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:12:37
Yes. I mean, because it's part of, like a universal path of the development of Siddhas, or esoteric powers, through the development of consciousness and energy to higher levels. So it's universal in that sense. Now it is the case that the Rosicrucians understand that there are, just like we have the multiple religions. You've got the very advanced masters in Buddhism, very advanced masters in Hinduism, you know, whatever it might be in Sufism, whatever, there are more advanced masters in Rosicrucian, independent initiation in Christianity. And so these are various individuals, Christian rosencroits, would would be one. Again, that's an initiation name given to a specific individual of a very, very high level, the individuality who manifested as Jesus would be one. Although it's understood in Rosicrucianism and Paul beginning esoteric Christianity that the Christ and Jesus were two separate things. Can you explain that the Christ is the solar logos? The Christ is the spiritual being, literally, of the sun and the forces of the sun, S, U, N,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:48
So that's the consciousness, if you will, or the the spiritual energy, like Christ consciousness, is that what that is, kind of?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:13:56
It certainly manifests as Christ consciousness. But again, this goes back to Origin's key work on on first principles, written in Alexandria, Egypt around the second century. Ad where he's saying, you know who and what is the Christ being? How can we understand a being of this nature? And what he says is that the Godhead is something so vast everywhere that we can barely understand the being that is connected to everything that we see in the created world, everything we can't see in the invisible worlds, all levels of manifestation, all the many mansions. It's an incredibly vast being. So to really get a sense of this being that goes through different levels of manifestation. So let's say there's a Godhead level. You also find this in some very advanced Masonic teachings and things. There's the Godhead level, which is like everything everywhere. Then this moves into a macrocosmic level. All in which you have spiritual beings of a macrocosmic scale connected to things like planetary forces. Now you find the same thing in the Vedic tradition. There are certain spiritual beings who are the manifestation of the power that manifest as a planetary power. So elementals, if you will, not Elementals. These are elemental beings are on a much smaller scale.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:23
Okay, when you say power, earthly powers, what kind of powers are we talking about, like the wind or the or fire?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:15:28
Well, at this point, we're talking about macrocosmic beings, things like what we think of as the higher angelic ranks in the West, cherubim, Seraphim, things like this. And just like in the Vedic tradition, there are particular spiritual beings that are the actual being of the planets. That same concept exists in esoteric Christianity, it got lost, along with all the other original things as Christianity went on, but that there's a particular being or consciousness that is behind that planetary force. And of course, you know, one of the best ways to understand this is through Jyotish, the science of light from the Vedic tradition, very, very advanced. So what Origen is talking about is that the Godhead is so vast you can't really get a handle on that. And so what happened is that at the macrocosmic level that the Christ being is the Godhead, reduced in scale to a level that the qualities can be perceived through a type of incarnate being. And so Jesus was an extremely advanced initiate from the Essen tradition, which itself brought a tremendous amount of knowledge from the Egyptian tradition. But it was at the time of the baptism in the Jordan by John that the Christ being the solar logos, the being of the sun, s u n also considered a sun or a macro, cosmic emanation from the Godhead S O N in parts of original Christianity, then brought into the Grail cup of his physical body through that vertical column that's shown in the classic images of the devil, the Holy Spirit, moving into his crown and then the solar logos moved into that physical form for the period of three years. Now, by the time that the crucifixion happened, the power of the Christ being at that level of manifestation within the body was already tearing it apart. And that's represented by that Jesus's sweating blood in the Garden of Gethsemane. It's literally tearing the body apart. This is a being of a vast scale. And so the nature of Jesus as a spiritual initiate is not the same as Christ being. Jesus is a microcosmic being. Like all of us are. We are also the crown of creation, the microcosm of the macrocosm, because we have the qualities of the Godhead, reduced in scale, but reduced in scale to a microcosmic level. The Christ being is a larger fractal. He is the the, the Godhead, reduced in scale to a macrocosmic level.

Alex Ferrari 1:18:09
And that would that be the same thing for Buddhist, for Buddha, or for any of the ascended masters that are on the wall? Or is it different?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:18:15
It gets that gets technical, because at that point we go from a type of esotericism that just deals with generalities, to dealing with the specifics of different forms of evolution, states of consciousness, the higher dimensions of different beings. So when we start looking at different traditions, they may be more of the macrocosmic level, or they may be more of a microcosmic level, but they have advanced to a very high scale where they're almost on the verge of becoming macrocosmic,

Alex Ferrari 1:18:48
And we're so, in other words, so being like a Babaji, who is, that's right, who is, from my understanding, train, helped trained Jesus and trained all the masters at one point or another, And he's in the grand scheme of the Vedic tradition, Mahavatar Babaji is he's the guy,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:19:07
Yeah, very, very high level,

Alex Ferrari 1:19:09
Very, very, very high level to the point where he's still incarnated to this day. He comes and goes as he wants. He lives in the Himalayas. He hasn't incarnated the way he did in the 80s, which is a whole other thing. But so being like him is at a level that we can't comprehend. And then there's other kind of like Demi, I hate to use the word God, but the demi gods, if it like, like in Zeus. And then all the demigods,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:19:33
Well, there's, there's spiritual initiates, who, as microcosmic beings, have gone through processes over many incarnations where they have developed particular siddhas, particular powers to a high level. But they don't necessarily have the same Siddhas. They may have very, very different powers. So for example, in the Rosicrucian tradition, it's understood that there are certain very advanced esoteric Christian masters, and Christian rosencroits is one of them. Another one of them is the one referred to in the Bible as Melchizedek or malikaze Deck, the King of Righteousness. It was actually considered in the routing tradition to have had many incarnations previously, including Manu, who wrote the laws of Manu and Mannai who founded Manichaeism in Persia, etc. And from a certain perspective, Rudolf Steiner is also an advanced master, but his Siddhas have to do with the development of the new form of clairvoyance. Through the making of thinking clairvoyant and developing consciousness powers to a certain level, he wouldn't necessarily be able to transmute one physical element to another, holding it in his hands. Another type of initiate could be able to do that. It depends what they trained and what they developed.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:48
So then, so someone like, if someone came, an initiate, would come to this earth now, and their mission is to share information their their power could be mass communication, do you be able to do it in a way that they're very, you know, charismatic, or something like that, in a way that that the people are attracted to it? And does that make sense?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:21:11
It could be one aspect of it. I often like to give the example of Stylianos, a Tesla's, who was a Greek Christian, hermetic healing master, who died in the 1990s and a Teslas, who was known to the public as daskalas, which is simply a Greek term, meaning teacher, had all kinds of esoteric abilities. He could do miraculous healings of people, which involved dematerializing parts of their body and re materializing them in a perfectly healed form. He could remember all of his past incarnations. He could read, write and speak all the languages he knew in the old incarnations. So he could read, write and speak Middle Kingdom Egyptian, because he had been a hierophant in the court of Akhenaten, and on the sly, some Egyptologists would come to him to translate old text, because he knew all the stuff he could actually write out for you from memory, the things they had done in the court of Akhenaten as particular spiritual practices, and show you the hieroglyphic text that he would draw for you.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:19
So he's tapping into almost his own Akashic record of his entire existence, and pulling that information out as needed, because we would go mad generally, if we had all that information.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:22:32
Well, it's because we don't have a structure to hold it right. And so one thing that he discussed is that there is a particular structure you can create in your energy field, which he did back in the Egyptian times, that allows you to not lose the memory from one incarnation to the next. And that's what he had done. He created a sacred geometric structure in his energy field, which is potential in every person's field, but by devoting attention to it during practices with it, you can then crystallize it out. And that's what I introduced to people in my Gaia sacred geometry series, that it was referred to as the symbol of life by by daskalas. And it's the same pattern as the Tree of Life in the Jewish Kabbalistic tradition, but often in the Jewish Kabbalistic tradition today, they don't understand about the aspects of building it in the human energy field. And in some Western traditions where they try to build it in the human energy field, they are not constructing the pattern in the right locations. And that's what happened to the the Golden Dawn tradition from England in the late 1800s is they had a way to build the Tree of Life in the energy field, but the locations for building it were not geometrically accurate.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:47
So it seems like he's created a cloud computing in a sense, he's created the cloud where all the information stores, which is in his energy field, and this is the hardware, this is the actual computer that's connecting to that and bringing that information in and out, because what's in the cloud cannot fit in this computer here is that, is that a good analysis?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:24:07
He didn't create the cloud, the cloud. Tapped into the cloud. He tapped into it, but he managed to create a structure in the energy field that allows him to not lose the awareness of it. So it wasn't like it wasn't it wasn't like he he didn't know it, and then he had to tap into it. He like he knew it, the same as like, I know where I live, I know who my friends are. I know that right now,

Alex Ferrari 1:24:29
But he established a way to connect to that information, that can that information is available to all of us. That's right, very much. So like, when you have a past life regression with someone, or you meet with a, let's say, a psychic medium, then they tap into like a past life event. They're able to tap in, or they're able to tap in one way, shape or form, to that information. He was just able to do it instantly.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:24:51
He had the structure in his energy field to hold it correct, which is what most people don't have. Now we have the same pattern in our energy field with the 10 centers. Linked together in a set of pathways that create this sacred geometric grid that, again, is best known to the public as the Tree of Life in the Jewish Kabbalistic tradition, but originally was the symbol of life in the Egyptian tradition, and can be given other names as well, because it's such a fundamental pattern, and it's not, and he himself never claimed to have created this pattern. This is something that he trained in in the Egyptian temples as one of the hidden teachings that, again, I did my best to explain this to people and teach them the basic pattern of it in the Gaia TV sacred geometry series to show what the significance of these patterns are because he had developed this pattern in his energy field. He could do these miraculous healings. He automatically remembered his past lives. He recognized all the people around him. He knew from past lives and exactly what their relationships were. He could rewrite and speak all the ancient languages, ancient forms of Sanskrit, Aramaic from the time of Jesus, where he was also present with Jesus as a young boy. At the time he was there with the Essenes, all these types of things, all these really advanced abilities he could do, conscious out of body travel, where from an out of body state, he could re materialize from the etherica, physical hand, to manipulate objects from an out of body state, do all kinds of advanced things. And again, these are the types of things we tend to think of more in terms of Eastern masters. And he says, No, there's always been Western Christian initiates that can do this. But there's absolutely no advantage in letting yourself be known to the public. He didn't make Himself known to the public. He was outed by a professor from the University of Maine back in the 1980s who found out about him and what he could do and made him known to the public. Once he was outed to the public, because he was completely private before that, he then began to do some public teaching and things of that kind, before he died in the 90s. But these things were always around us. So there is a path of esoteric initiation in the Christian tradition, with Masters with different abilities, but there's absolutely no advantage for them to let the public know that they have these capacities.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:08
Especially with the dogmatic powers, the power structure that's in the Catholic Church or the Vatican in general, and Christianity in general, whoever, wherever the power lies. It's not beneficial to come out and say, Hey,

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:27:18
There's there's that, but also just the way our society is set up today, right, that that's going to become a nightmare for the person who is presenting these abilities.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:28
But with that said, though the things are changing dramatically now, because there are, you know, I mean, I speak to psychics and channels publicly constantly now and before, psychic mediums were like, you know, quiet, or they were witches or something like that, where now these ideas of people are becoming much more comfortable with these ideas, these abilities. I agree, what he's, what he did, still would pretty be a rough sell in today's world, but it's getting better.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:27:58
It's the way that our social media has such a toxic aspect to it that if you were to make yourself known as having these types of abilities, it would get you so much toxic attention that it would be extremely difficult. So again, this leads us back to the whole thing about the Rosicrucians, and that there are esoteric masters in the Christian tradition who have very advanced abilities, but they will not make themselves known to the public. There's no advantage in that whatsoever. Daskos is a good example of someone with these abilities, but he didn't make himself known. He was outed by somebody else, and then he became known for this. So in the Rosicrucian tradition, once again, the whole idea is that there's no gurus. There's no one that you follow, or there's a particular dogma. It's all about learning how to connect directly to spirit. And so there is a pathway within the tradition, and without going into the details of it, because it's a whole big topic of itself, there's like seven stages of Rosicrucian initiation that are described by Steiner, just as there had been seven stages of holy grail initiation that came for the earlier tradition. And the first part of the path is simply the study of spiritual science. Why? Because then we can begin to develop a knowledge base for how things work, and to get enough of a knowledge base to have discernment, to start to be able to figure out how the fragments fit together and when things have been misrepresented, or there's a knuckle ball in the information that has somebody's agenda in it that you don't want to take on without understanding what's going on there. So to understand the principles is the first step, and then at that point, there's a whole set of stages that that come out. After it in a developmental process. But people should know that these developmental processes exist. So for example, I had to figure out, well, how do I communicate some of this to people? I created a series of different courses, but the very first one on the spiritual science track is called Essential teachings and practices of spiritual science, and that's where I explain certain things about the human energy field and about the path of spiritual development. And I include what is one of the most fundamental exercises for the Rosicrucians, which sometimes is called the six basic exercises, but I prefer to refer to as the six essential exercises. And so it has to do with things that, from the Eastern tradition, has to do with mindfulness. So first, you have to observe all of your thinking, and in a way that you are not trying to change it, and you're not sugarcoating it, but you're observing everything that's going on in your thoughts. And then once you have what Gurdjieff called the terror of the situation, about how toxic our thoughts actually are, then you can start actively generating more beneficial thoughts. And then the observation of our feelings and emotional impulses, again, don't sugarcoat it. You're observing it to complete neutrality. And then you start actively generating more beneficial emotions, same thing for our will impulses. Then you move into higher level exercises that have to do with the development of looking for the positive positivity in every situation, of having openness to new information from multiple sources, and then harmonizing all this together, what's hidden inside of it is that not only is this something that is absolutely critical for any real spiritual development, because you could do all kinds of advanced spiritual practices all day, but still not have a coherent energy field when you die, because your whole inner life is still chaos. This is what gets the inner life activated, so it could be understood, just on a level that I just explained it, but energetically in sacred geometry, something else is going on, and that is that your energy field has got to have an organizing center. Remember, we said, everything comes out of a center in sacred geometry and then creates the world around it. So people don't begin with an organizing center in their body of energy. We have to create that organizing center. That organizing center optimally will be the heart center. So the heart center is considered to be the 12 petal lotus and the Vedic tradition, and what the Rosicrucians bring out is that six of the lotus petals and the 12 petal lotus we've developed in previous rounds of evolution, we now have six more lotus petals we have to develop. If we can develop those fully, then the full 12 petal lotus will come into proper balanced circulation, and it will become the organizing center for the entire body of energy. So the six essential exercises, in a steeper hidden way, are actually activating the heart center to become the organizing center for the whole body of energy. And so that's an illustration of a fundamental Rosicrucian initiatory practice. And then there's more advanced stuff later on. So the class that I have after essential teachings and practices is called Connecting to spiritual realities. And there we go into more details about the central column of energy activating the centers above the head, things like this.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:37
I want to go back for a second with with Jesus, because we spoke about a lot of his abilities and knowledge and power that he brought in, that he brought into this world. There is that there is a missing time period, if you will, of Jesus's story, the very famous. He's 12 years old and yada yada yada, I come in riding on a donkey. I'm always fascinated with the yada yada yada, and I've spoken about that, that time period of Jesus's life, to multiple experts and multiple mystics as well. I'd love to hear what you have to say, what the Rosicrucians had to say in regards to these missing time periods, because I have, I have my my knowledge of what I've heard I'd love to hear yours.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:34:25
Yes, and there may be some deeper knowledge in the Rosicrucian tradition, and I'm not aware of there, because I haven't studied that in detail. Certainly they agree that that was a period as an initiate of going through all types of travel and information from multiple places, initiatory activities. But I don't have any particular idea, specific information on that, yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:34:46
To my understanding. You know, he went to Egypt, he went to Tibet, he went to India. I mean, because, again, this and learned accordingly, because it just makes sense. He was more yogic in pot and the way he did things, but, but he they do. Day that he he traveled there, certainly he traveled. Yeah. It's something he learned from other things. Yeah. So let me ask you, though, this is, this is interesting idea that if Jesus came in or initiate in general, do they come in with this knowledge already kind of programmed in, or do they have to kind of go through the journey of self understanding and self realization themselves in order to be able to teach it in another way, to be able to teach it to their to be able to do the mission that they're doing. In other words, you know, I could talk about painting a house, but I really got to go paint a house at first, so I can teach you how to paint a house.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:35:37
Yeah.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:37
Does that make sense?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:35:38
Yeah, there's multiple levels to it. So one aspect is, is there's the aspect of these people are still individual human beings, having their own Soul Life and their own spiritual evolution. And then there's the activities they're doing for the world as a whole. So there's going to be certain things that the individual needs for their own spiritual development and journey. We tend to have a somewhat shellfish view of it, of oh, you should be out there doing things for everybody, but I mean, they still need to have their life too. So there's that part of it. But then the things that they need, which again, may be a constantly incremental improvement type of journey, to keep learning new things and keep building on their skills from before. So that's one part of it. Another part of it is that there is a Rosicrucian saying in the beginning was the memory. So not everybody has the complete memory of somebody like a daskalas, most people don't. So the meaning of the phrase in the beginning was the memory is that when we incarnate into a particular lifetime, first thing we have to do is remember, who am I? Why am I here? What did I incarnate to do in this lifetime? So to regain that particular knowledge now, sometimes that also means that we need to go through certain experiences that we had in the past to build up those skills. So I often will give a particular illustration of this from my own life, and that is when I was growing up in South Carolina, I mostly just hung out with the stoners and things, and it was something where I didn't seem to have a military oriented bone in my body, and so my friends were all quite surprised when I ended up joining the Marine Corps and becoming a nuclear, biological, chemical warfare defense specialist. Now to me, it made perfect sense, and later I understood it in more detail that I had had so many monastic and military incarnations that I needed to recapitulate that experience. I don't have to spend my whole life at it, but I had to spend some years to regain that series of skills by going through that experience again. So there's another course that I haven't taught for many, many years, it's not available online, called karmic biography, which basically shows people how to start remembering who they are and why they're here. And people often, when they start looking at this aspect of their lives, they'll say, like, I had to go do this thing, but I didn't end up staying there. It was something that they then realized they needed to do to bring up a certain set of skills or abilities or memory for something that will be important for them. And so that's that's another part of it, to go through a recapitulation of things that had happened previously, to bring that all back into activity in a way that may not have happened wherever you happen to be born in this lifetime, and whatever your social surroundings were, may have to go somewhere and do some things. I think it's probably true even of an initiated level of Jesus. So again, I Don't speculate much on what exactly he did. I don't know, but these are an example of some of the considerations about what has to happen that particular incarnation.

Alex Ferrari 1:39:02
Now, did the Rosicrucians have any prophecies of what humanity Oh, I decided to say of what humanity is going to be going through over these next years through their work.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:39:14
Yes, this is related to what became known in medieval Christianity as the Archangelic ages. So we've talked about the way that the planetary forces, that it was understood in the original Christianity, that the Christos was the solar logos, the spiritual being of the sun. Because the Sun is the center of the solar system. The sun is the microcosmic representation of the Godhead as a physical center, source of light, heat, all life. And so the being that's going to be behind us today, we are so materialistic that we tend to think everything's a dead clockwork mechanism. Them, rather than everything that exists as a powerful reality in the world has a being behind it. Everything has a being behind it. And there are different levels of beings. So one of the classes of beings that we're aware of from the nine ranks of angelic beings in the esoteric tradition is above the angels are the Archangels. So there was understood in Christianity, and going back to previous traditions as well, they had different names. In other traditions, the Egyptians knew them as netters. But then getting into Judaism, Christianity, etc, became known as Angels, archangels, etc, having to do with the levels of development of the being. And so there's an archangel connected every planetary force, and the different planetary forces have different powers to them. They have different things. So again, one of the best ways we can understand today, there's some of it in Western astrology, but it's much deeper in Vedic Jyotish, the science of light from the Himalayas, it's very deep understanding what those planetary forces are in every human being. And also, if you get a really good Jyotish reading, something that doesn't exist in Western Astrology is that they will talk about the Dasha system, which are timing periods in your life in which your karmas will ripen, and a particular karma is going to come to the fore. It may be something good or maybe something that you're not going to be happy about, but you need to go through that thing has to get processed. So same thing is true on a macro level. And so, for example, Archangel Mikhail is the Archangel of the sun. And so there was understood in the esoteric Christian teaching, having to do with alchemical processes over great periods of time, that there are seven Archangels that are related to the seven planetary forces and that work in a particular time cycle. Long story short, because it's a it's a big topic. We are currently living according to the Rosicrucians in the mykhayek age. And this began around the year 1879 now the timing cycle has to do with the cosmic clock, the precession of the equinox. So we have the circle of the Zodiac around us, around the sun that has the 12 signs of the zodiac and the sun's apparent position, every 72 years, will move one degree backwards in the 360 degree circle of the Zodiac where we see the sun at the vernal equinox, and moves backwards 172 degree increment. I'm sorry, one increment, one degree every 72 years. And so that means to get through one particular age, like the Piscean age, or the Age of Aquarius, or all these types of things, will take 2160 years, or to do the entire what they call platonic year, to go for the sun's apparent position of the vernal equinox, to go through the entire Zodiac. And the complete cycle will be 25,920 years. You mean the Yuga cycle. The yugas are another alchemical cycle that have an interaction with this. And there are many other alchemical cycles as well. But for this particular one, with it being 2160 years for the sun's apparent position of the vernal equinox, to go through the full 30 degrees of one sign of the zodiac, because many people think in terms of this as the Piscean age, or we're about to enter into the Age of Aquarius. And before that, the Piscean age, we had the age of Aries, etc. That this 2160 years gets divided between the seven planetary forces, the seven Archangels. So each one of them has a regency of around 300 years. So today, we tend to think of this as some type of philosophical thing, rather than an actual energetic timing cycle. But it's as real and as powerful seen from the Rosicrucian perspective as our sleeping and waking cycle, or all of our biological circadian rhythms. It's something that's very, very real and very powerful at a higher level. So we're in the age of Archangel Mikael right now, and it's the, in a sense, the highest of the periods, because the sun is the highest of the forces. And so there's some really good things with that that have to do with there has been a real growth and a lot of understanding of human rights and moving out of various forms of slavery and empowerment of all kinds of people that were disempowered previously, all kinds of amazing mikaelic things happening during this time. Another part of the age of Mikhail is that Mikael is the regent of the cosmic intelligence. Now what that means is that Mikhail is. Has the understanding of how all the traditions on the planet fit together, that the original, primal gnosis of spiritual knowledge at one time broke up and fell across the earth and different traditions got different pieces of the knowledge. He knows how it all fits back together into one. And that's part of the Rosicrucian impulse today. It is an esoteric Christian path, but is also something that's hermetic and looks at how all the traditions fit together in a way that gives power to all of the cultures and pieces of the puzzle. But that's like a huge part of it. How does it form back into a coherent whole? And there's many other pieces of it as well. It's a larger topic, what the whole age of Mikhail is about. So started in around 1879 go on for roughly 300 years. And Steiner never talked about this from the Rosicrucian tradition in his public work, but he had a private initiation school for people going through a type of Rosicrucian initiation, again, not as the guru or anything, but just to give them more advanced practices and things they could work with some more information from the tradition. And in that private initiation school, he talked about that, although we have all these world catastrophes today, world wars, all these types of things, all these problems. Says, comparatively, these are the good times, the time that's coming next, he says, is going to be so much harder that you have to understand that we're planting seeds today, and that there is a rusicrucian exercise to understand the movement of the growth of a plant, from a seed To the sprout to the plant and the flowering and the reproduction and the whole thing, there's a whole orderly series of an alchemical development, a cycle that things will go through. So seen from this perspective, all the things that we are developing with modern surveillance technology, everything that we are developing with modern, destructive technologies related to medicine, biological control, various types of things in physics, biology, chemistry, these are all things that, if they are not properly guided by Humanity, the seeds that we are planting now are going to grow into a flower of fire, like AI is a very good example. That is a very good example, and that the next of the seven periods is the one known not as the period of Mikael, which connected to the sun, but the period of orifel, which is connected to Saturn, and in the Vedic tradition, in Jyotish, the science of light, they refer to Saturn as the prime malefic. Now that doesn't mean that Saturn's all bad. It has a particular influence that people don't tend to enjoy in their life, but it is what helps bring some of the most fundamental growth in life. It's hard work, challenges, etc. And I don't want to give anybody negative input, but it's just something about if Winter is coming, it's good to know to have a coat, something like that, that

Alex Ferrari 1:48:17
Can't put your head in the sand and go and winter's not coming. Winter's not coming.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:48:21
Yeah. So the age of a Raphael is coming, and when it comes and we reincarnate to be present at that time, we need to do everything we can in this lifetime to make sure that those seeds don't create the most destructive outcomes. I mean, it'll be bad according to what we do or don't do leading up to it.

Alex Ferrari 1:48:43
But aren't we? I mean, don't we started iron, starting to see ripples of that in this, in this lifetime? Oh, absolutely no. I mean, what's going on in the world? I mean, oh, absolutely from I would say 2012 was kind of the beginnings of it. But 2016 2020 I think this decade has been one of the most insane of my lifetime. Oh, yes, and we're not even halfway through yet. Yeah. From what I hear on the other from my guests and people who speak to the other side, is we're in for a bumpy ride, but it's part of the growth, and on the other side of it, we will be better for it. And I always give the analogy that the best, the most growth that I ever had in my life, are in the most challenging parts of my life, not when you're winning. You don't learn from winning, you learn from losing, and that's how you start to adjust and grow evolutionary. And I think we're doing that through as a consciousness, right?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:49:39
Absolutely. I often like to tell an anecdote from my time in the Marine Corps, which was that whenever the drill instructors would get mad at you in boot camp, that they would start screaming at you, and they would say, All right, boys, the good times are over. The party is over. And I was always super bummed because I didn't know the party had started and I wasn't. Having a good time before, and I wish I had enjoyed the time while I had it. So it's kind of like that now. Is like I'm telling everybody, Hey, this is the good times now, comparatively, things are a lot easier to do. Now all kinds of opportunities are available to us. We take advantage of being incarnated at this time. We will never be here again in this way, take advantage of everything that you can do. Life is a limited time opportunity for your own experience, your own spiritual growth, everything of this kind. Again, one of the beautiful things I think about esoteric Christianity is the whole idea of the prodigal son. And, you know, this was something that led to the Pharisees and things hating Jesus, because it's like, how can you give people such a horrible teaching that the son who went out and blew all his money and did all of this dissolute stuff that we tell people not to do when he came back, he was more valued by the father than the son who followed all of our rules and followed the straight and narrow that was considered to be heretical and absolutely horrific, but instead, it's actually one of the most redemptive aspects of Christianity. Christianity has become so corrupted that today we kind of associate it with people who are holier than thou and extremely judgmental and all this type of crap. But original Christianity is about we are all prodigal sons and daughters. You need to sew your route wild oats. You need to experience everything you need to experience in this world, as long as don't hurt somebody else. Go and experience what you need to experience. That's what this is here for, and it's very important to do it. And I want to tell people, go ahead and experience we need to experience without hurting other people. Now it's going to be a lot easier to get those experiences now as part of your prodigal son or daughter development process, then it's going to be at a later time, at the same time as don't neglect your spiritual development, because you want to have a core that's been developed that's going to help you through when these more difficult times come in the future,

Alex Ferrari 1:52:00
That's a very Eastern way of looking at things this, that you have to go out and and experience life and go through the trials and tribulations and sow your wild oats, if you will, as long as you're not hurting anyone. Because that's the point of this, absolutely, the point of this video game that we're in is to play. Is the play. It's not to just always go down the path that you know that there's not a monster down there on the corner as a video game. No, you got to go down the paths that there could be a monster, and you'll have to deal with that monster or that challenge as it arrives. Would you agree?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:52:36
Yes, absolutely. You know these great stories about the Dalai Lama talking about some of his earlier incarnations where he was totally dissolute and he screwed everything up and did all kinds of crazy stuff, and it was like an essential part of the path to become who he's become now.

Alex Ferrari 1:52:52
And I think it's because we, we throw so much, we idolize our our spiritual teachers, that that that missing period of Jesus, let's say the teenage years, in the early 20s, yeah, which I don't know about you, yeah, they were interesting to say the least that we can't they become almost God. They literally become God like that. They could have never done anything bad, or done anything that was not holy, or something like that. It kind of tarnishes their image. Where I look at is like, No, I I would like to if I'm following a deity like that, I want to know that they've gone through stuff. I can connect with them in that way, because we're all human. We're all going through this video game, playing the game at different levels, of course, different skill sets, but you have to kind of go through that. I mean, almost everybody on this wall and one point or another had challenges. You know, I use Yogananda a lot in what I talk about, because he's a very recent master who walked the earth. He was literally recent. I think he died in the 50s, if it was 50s or 60s, I think he died, and there's footage of him and there's talk. So he wrote the book. You know, Jesus didn't write a book. Some other people got together and wrote something about him. But Yogananda actually wrote a book. Yoga schwa actually wrote a book. That's his writings. So it's very fascinating, but to see that they all went through stuff, you know, Yogananda was just trying to figure it out when he was a kid, he was, yeah, I don't want to go to America. Why? Yeah, that's that's humanizing.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:54:28
Yeah, there's a concept in Rosicrucianism called premature purification, and it's based on this idea that you may think, Well, I don't want to go through all of these prodigal son type of activities and potentially make mistakes and this type of thing, I just want to purify all my vehicles, or whatever state of development I'm at right now without having fully experienced life, and then I can be holy and sacred. I'll be a saint, and I'll be a spiritual master. And all these things. But what they point to is that if you haven't gone through and out the other side of all of your earthly experiences and experienced all that and worked through it, then you've got a weak point in your structure that will often collapse later. This was very important in the 1960s when you began to have a whole series of Eastern masters come to the US and in a completely different context than the ashrams that they were in in India, in a completely different cultural context, many of them fell into sexually manipulating their students and things like this. And you found this with Indian and Tibetan and a variety of teachers, and it was because of premature purification. They hadn't gone through all of these things. They were still at an adolescent level of emotional and sexual development. And having not having done premature purification, it led to a weak point in their structure. And so this is a hidden part of what the whole prodigal son and daughter thing is in Christianity, you're going to have a weak spot that will later come to destroy you and others if you don't work through your whole experience of human life.

Alex Ferrari 1:56:13
Hence what you had to go through in the military, like you had to go down that road again, to relearn a lot of those things and just experience it correct.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:56:21
Yes, although I wouldn't use my military experience as an illustration of my prodigal son activities, I'm very glad during my teens and 20s, there was no social media at the time,

Alex Ferrari 1:56:30
You and me both. My friend, you me both. I'm not. I haven't been on Earth as long as you have, but I also agree that let's not enjoy it. Let's I'm so, so grateful that there was no social media or easily recording devices back when I was in my teens and 20s. To say the least. Robert, I want to ask you a few questions I ask all my guests, okay, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:56:56
Again, it's a combination of living a fulfilled life is always going to be finding a balance between the things that I enjoy, that I want, that I need, for my own personal development as an individual, with the things that I can offer to the whole in acts of service. And so I have a completely fulfilled life if I've managed to do the things that I need from my own development and be able to harmonize that as well for the things that I can offer to other people to help them on their path.

Alex Ferrari 1:57:35
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Robert, what advice would you give him?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:57:40
I would actually advise him to go more deeply into the prodigal son path at an earlier time, because it's hard to do it later. You don't have the energy, and sometimes it's just not, not possible. So I tell him to get started on it as soon as possible, early on, go down that prodigal son path in the beginning.

Alex Ferrari 1:58:01
On a side note, that is why there's so many of these. You know, the gurus that came to America that fell off the path, oh yeah, but yet their teachings, oh yeah, are very powerful. Osha is one absolutely that I that comes to mind after seeing that documentary on Netflix, uh, wild, wild country, or something along those lines. Yes, what a wonderful, wonderful documentary. Um, you know, you watch that documentary, and obviously it's biased. The document is a bit biased, sure. Um, no question. But then, as I dug deeper into it, his teachings were fairly profound, absolutely centers around the world, and followers to this day around the world. But he did, you know, when you have 45 Mercedes, what is it, rolls, Royces, or whatever he had, you know, and had guns and, you know, like he definitely, there was something that went off the path, yeah. But yet, his core teachings, there's stuff there.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 1:58:55
This is one of the most important things I think people need to understand that's been somewhat corrupted in modern metaphysical understanding, and this is also true with people getting canceled and things on social media, that there's some type of ignorant belief that human beings are one unified system, and either they're all good or they're all bad, all of the things that they Think or Do are perfect, or they're all flawed, and no one is like that. There's parts of people's structure, part of people's teachings who are teachers that is fantastic work and can coexist with them, making mistakes on other levels of their structure. I don't know any perfect people, and it's always a thing of looking at the different parts of themselves, physical, energetic, emotional, mental, spiritual, culture, all these different things are always happening at once. And so there are many spiritual teachers that have brilliant, important teachings. But doesn't mean that they are themselves, 100% divine. And. Don't have huge fault lines in their internal structure, and we have to think that way with everybody. The way social media acts today is like, once somebody makes one mistake, throw them out and don't allow them in the public square for the rest of their life, or made a mistake 20 years ago or 15 years Oh, yeah. We dug up something from 30 years ago.

Alex Ferrari 2:00:18
I heard someone was talking about John Wayne. Said something like, Are you kidding me? When John Wayne said it, that's what he believed, because that was the time period he was in. Like, you know, you're gonna go back to Genghis Khan. Like, cancel Genghis Khan. It makes no sense.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:00:32
Yeah. There's way too much of this ignorant belief that people are all good or all bad, or that their work is all good or all bad, or we throw somebody's entire life's work out because I said one ignorant thing one time, and it's it's very destructive, and it leads to people being afraid to have the prodigal son or daughter experience, because you'll be shamed publicly if you make one mistake.

Alex Ferrari 2:00:55
Now my next question is, how do you define God or Source?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:01:01
Well, that's one of those things that can easily fall into superficiality. But essentially, I would define it as the Absolute Source of all creation, something that is so far beyond any limited understanding or limited definition, that it includes absolutely everything that exists that we know about, and all the things an unknown world we have no concept of. And it manifests through the source. It manifests through the center, in every person and everything. And that becomes a practical approach to connecting to the source, and that also becomes the foundation of our deepest longings, like to have a partner and to merge with a partner, that we're no longer two, but we become one. The source is always linked to the center and always linked to the state of oneness. And what is love? Love is that attractive force to become one and where there is no separation between the self and other and their well being, their good, their joy and happiness, is completely inseparable from our own. It all for me, love is all connected to the state of oneness and unity.

Alex Ferrari 2:02:23
Beautiful answer and what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:02:28
The ultimate purpose of life is to use this amazing Space Time Matrix that we've been incarnated into to be able to develop our experiences and our consciousness and our energy to the highest level possible, so that at the end of this round of physical incarnations, we will be able to become independent, individual spiritual beings acting as free agents in the universe to bring Good and new experiences to all the aspects of creation, many of which we have no concept of in this particular box we live in.

Alex Ferrari 2:03:07
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:03:11
Well, thank you. It's at vesica.org it's V, as in Victor, E, S, I, C, A, dot O, R, G, and that's where we talk about all my different online classes. I'm starting to open up some live events again, and so everything is contained at vesica.org

Alex Ferrari 2:03:30
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:03:33
Just once again, that remember that life is a limited time opportunity, and it's going to be over before you know it. So we need to, every day, keep reminding ourselves of the key questions, who am I? Why am I here? What did I incarnate to do in this incarnation and to make sure that we are moving in the right direction, to take advantage of the limited time opportunity of being here.

Alex Ferrari 2:04:00
Dr. Gilbert, it has been such a pleasure and honor speaking to you today. I know that I can talk to you for at least another four hours, so I look forward to our next conversation. Wonderful. Thank you so much for everything you're doing to help awaken the planet. I appreciate you.

Dr. Robert Gilbert 2:04:13
Thank you so much. It was great to be here.