William Peters, M.Ed, MFT, is the founder of the Shared Crossing Project whose mission is to positively transform relationships to death and dying through education and raising awareness about shared crossings and their healing benefits. As the director of the Shared Crossing Research Initiative (SCRI), William and his team collect and study extraordinary end-of-life experiences (shared crossings).
William is a global leader in shared death studies and end-of-life phenomenon. He has developed methods to facilitate the shared death experience and to assist experiencers in meaningfully integrating their experiences. William is a psychotherapist at the Family Therapy Institute of Santa Barbara where he specializes in end-of-life counseling as a means toward psycho-spiritual evolution.
He served as a hospice worker with Zen Hospice Project in San Francisco. His work is informed by his two NDEs and a variety of shared crossings. William has presented at the American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine’s Annual Conference. William’s work has appeared in the American Journal of Hospice and Palliative Medicine and in Omega – Journal of Death Studies.
William’s book entitled At Heaven’s Door: What Shared Journeys to the Afterlife Teach About Dying Well and Living Better, published by Simon & Schuster.
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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 061
Alex Ferrari 0:04
I'd like to welcome to the show, William Peters. How you doin, William?
William J. Peters 2:25
Hey, good to be here. Thank you.
Alex Ferrari 2:27
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you about your new book At heaven's door and everything inside and your journey which is fairly interesting. Take on the near death or just the the afterlife in general. It's a very interesting take on it. So how did your spiritual journey begin, sir?
William J. Peters 2:51
Well, I you know, I think it began at 17 years old, when I had my first near death experience. I mean, I was living a pretty standard life first suburban kid and in San Francisco area, basically. And, you know, skiing on the squall Valley mountain, really well known ski resort outside Lake Tahoe. And it took a very bad fall, and fractured my spine, and on impact. And then what I remember is that everything went dark right away. But I still had an observing self egowasn't an ego, I don't think it was just observing consciousness. Things were dark, but I was just watching this, I wasn't the least bit worried. And then I started moving away from my body. I could see my body on the ski slopes, things started to lighten up at that point, I had the you know, the light came back on, if you will, I could see the ski area Lake Tahoe, then, you know, Colorado Rockies, Continental US and I was moving quickly were enamored by the whole experience, you know, no pain, like I said, and then as I was taken up in the, in the beauty of it all, I was watching a life review that was of my life up to the first 17 years of my life that was being played back to me really in the background. I mean, I was kind of, you know, there's multiple things happening. But I was enjoying looking at the galaxy, just at peace, really enthralled. And then I noticed this whole life review was going on and I was my attention focused on that. And I was like, wow, there's that there's this is my whole life in detail. And focusing on how my actions in particular influenced other people. So it was a real lesson in karma. And not a not a pleasant lesson either. Because the things that really stuck out was, you know, the times when I was unkind or selfish or mean or what have you. And I learned that everything matters. And so and as I was going through that at some point, once again, all this the stuff happened and simultaneous Lee, I then found myself in this tunnel of sorts and then the distance I could see a light. And the first light didn't mean a whole lot to me. But then as I got closer to the light that got, you know, not that much closer, I was still pretty, I realized, oh boy, I'm dying. And then I then I had a whole nother download of realizations, which is I've been here before. And I was and not just once or twice, like, finding hundreds, maybe 1000s of times. So it's very familiar to me. And I was, then I felt emotion, arise within me, that expressed I don't want to die. I didn't complete what I came to this incarnation to do. I don't want to die. At that point, I was pleading with God, if you will, because I grew up Catholic. Because I looked at the light, it was clear to me that that's where the power was. And, and it was, it was a lovely, you know, sway Civ, if you will. alluring, pulsating light. And I was just seeing a piece of it. By no way would I claim that I saw the whole, you know, I'm, I could just see, oh, my gosh, I'm just getting a sense for this light. And this thing's enormous. And so finally, I'm in the light. And I've stopped in the light, and I'm more blissed out and comfortable in a certain way. But I'm still agitated in another way, like, I want to go back you got I can't I can't leave this life. I don't. I've already done 17 years, I don't want to go back and do another childhood. It's like, you know, it's kind of really working in my mind. And it's in some really specific details about what I did and did not want. So I don't know how long was up there pleading, but it wasn't that long. And I felt a jump, then I felt a gentle push on my, on my bean, if you will. And I started heading back at first I just thought I was being pushed out of the light. And then I realized, wait a minute, then he then that that that light, God, if you will said make something of your life. And that was it. It was a very solemn, direct, clear message, you know, and I got it, it kind of shook me up, like make something up my life. What does that mean? And then I started moving back, you know, kind of moving back towards at that point, I didn't know what I was moving towards, except I had a sense of Oh, I am going back. Now. As I turned my vision away from the light and started looking back to where I thought was Earth, I could see nothing. I mean, I was just gazing into a beautiful galaxy, there was no earth in sight. But I realized I was being pulled along in some way. Or a guided there was a more of an energetic feeling of gravitational pull. And I just went with it, somebody realized, oh, there's some there's some some force guiding this. So eventually, I could see planet Earth. And then, you know, skier as I landed in my body, and landed on my bike, I felt the coldness of the snow. Because I was covering the snow on my back. And if I had no feeling in my body, and then I screamed one last time, I don't know if it was must have been an internal scream, I think I think about it wasn't internal scream, you know. Don't let me be paralyzed God, don't let me be paralyzed. And then I felt feeling come back into my body, from the extremities first, like from my feet, and toes and fingers, and they just kind of move back into the center of my body I can't remember is that way or the other way? Anyway, but it was like moving across my body. Like you're under a warm shower. That type of sensation. And I didn't think after that I can, you know, go back to my body. And then I opened my eyes. I was covered in snow. My friend John came up to me, said, Wow, that was a Wipeout. And I forgot about the experience for a decade. Really, I just didn't. I mean, I think I remembered in dreams. And such. I know, I did. I know I've remembered it in dreams and went bad. In fact, the first few nights afterwards, I was dreaming quite a bit about it. And but I didn't, you know, 17 year old kid, you know, partying and, you know, athletic, I was an athlete. And that's that was my first you know, what I would call spiritual experience in a really in a personal way. I mean, I have those religious experiences and things like that, you know, when you I grew up Catholic, and, you know, I wouldn't say that I had a particular calling to, at that time to, you know, Roman Catholic spirituality in a certain way. I was more like, I liked the goodness the morals they taught, I mean, that were that they were being taught but I didn't have any spiritual experiences, per se. That was the really the first one I didn't even know what to do with it. In fact, that was Don't even call it a spiritual experience until over a decade later. I didn't even know I had it until I actually had a second death experience in 2001. Was it I must have been 13 years after? Yeah, I was 1992. I was 30 years old. Yeah. And that was just an ICU experience blood imbalance, idiopathic thrombocytopenia, kind of a hemophiliac condition. And I went into the ER and they immediately did a blood test, put a fall alert on me. And next thing I know, I wake up and I'm on top of a ceiling somewhere. I know it's an ICU. Once again, I am this observing consciousness. Whatever, with no, no connection to any, to me or to anyone. I'm just roaming around this ceiling of the ICU, Kaiser Oakland hospital, and no identity until the nurses are talking about the various patients. And they mentioned this guy in bed three, who's 30 years old, super healthy, no known history, you know, we don't know what he's doing here. What are your and I don't know how he got here. Now the doctors coming a little bit later to check them out the expert from UCSF, that's the medical center. And I'm just watching I think at some point, I just roll move I move myself because I can move myself my conscience I look over at that body. I go, Oh, my gosh, that's that's me. You know, and, and I, but that didn't really catch my attention very long, either. But I guess I remember saying, okay, that's me. But then I went around roving, and that because I was much more curious about being on the, on the 10th floor, the, in the ICU, I just remember moving down the halls and just kind of checking things out. And that was it. Oh, the doctor came in. And that's one of the things this was interesting. So when the doctor came in the hematologist, he approached me. And he approached my physical body, he tapped on my hand and said, Mr. Peters, Mr. Peters, and I remember that getting my attention, but I didn't feel it. I was above my body. And I was looking down at the top of his head, and at my body, and then I had this question, well, do I answer him? Do I not answer him? What if I do answer him? What will happen? And I thought to myself, well, I'll just answer them and see what happens. And so I just said, Yeah, I started, I was very slowly Yes. And as I said, Yes, I started filling in my body energetically, it was a similar experience to being on that ski slope, you know, all of a sudden, the energy moved across my body. And then I opened my eyes, and then my whole perception, my perception field changed in the sense that now I was looking up at the doctor, as opposed to looking on top of his, him from on top and seeing his crown. And that was that, you know, and then we had a conversation. So those are, those are two early experiences, of the really awakened to me to these experiences of being out of body, having a sense of self and consciousness that exists independent of the physical body, and a whole host of other phenomena, as you've heard already. So now I did fast forward to the subject of my book and my research on the shared death experience. Well, when I went to work in hospice, I started having these experiences, and that is someone is dying, and I would pop out of my body, and I would be with them. This happened a few times, but one in particular, I actually said it was what I call my gateway experience into my own shared death experience. I'm at the bedside of this gentleman Ron will call him in the book is referred to as Ron and he's dying. And he's, but he's unresponsive. So he's been in what we call, you know, unresponsive, semi comatose state. So but I was always reading to him stories. He loves these Jack London adventure stories. And so I would read him these stories on a regular basis. And on this afternoon, I was reading to him, and once again, to be really clear, he was just almost like sleeping on the bed and looked to be at peace. And I found myself suspended above my body, looking down at my body. I was still reading. I didn't stop reading, and I could see myself reading. And I looked over at Ron and his bed and he was prone no changes. But then I look to my right. And there's wrong. And Ron's got big face. Now it's not Ron's full body. He's got his big face, his eyes are open, he's smiling. He's that he's blissed out, as if to say to me, Hey, you know, check this out, William, check this out. So I feel like he kind of invited me there in a certain way, I can't explain how that happens. But this is this is kind of one of the shared death phenomena, where it's called the co experienced out of body. Now for your viewers, listeners who are familiar with the near death experience, the out of body experience, OBE is very well known and studied. In the shared death experience, it happens as well. But it's typically a co experienced, in other words, you're typically with the dying or, yeah, and when we I distinguish out of body experiences from, from being in other heavenly realms or visionary realms, so this is the OBE and my, you know, my definition happens, right? In the human realm, typically in the room, or nearby where the die exist, or where they exist and where they last existed. I guess it's too early to say it. And then, but when you go beyond that into another realm, that that then becomes visionary heavenly realms. And yeah, so I hope that's a good introduction, I should say the definition the shared death experiences this, somebody dies in a loved one caregiver or bystandard reports that they feel like they shared in the transition from this human existence into a benevolent afterlife with the dying so they feel like they witness in this journey with the die and that's the dominant motif is that there's a journey going on, there's the dot the spirit, soul consciousness, however you want to call it of the die, begins this journey out of the physical body and begins moving into another dimension and the shared death experience or is able to participate in that observe it and see a lot of the phenomena that the presumably they're experiencing, and the phenomena are almost identical to the near death experience, except that perception is from a different angle.
Alex Ferrari 17:22
You're You're bystanders, you're an audience member.
William J. Peters 17:25
There you go. Perfect.
Alex Ferrari 17:26
Exact so was Ron, your first one in the shared?
William J. Peters 17:31
Um, Ron was, Ron was not my first one, I should say.
Alex Ferrari 17:38
So what happened on that very first one, because I'm assuming you freaked out a bit.
William J. Peters 17:42
Well, you know, this is a great question. So I, I, after I had my first near death experience, I went on to college, the following, you know, four years or such. And after college. Well, let me just share this. This is kind of interesting. So between my junior and senior years in college, I went to Europe as so many college students do in those days, it was so economical. Especially the way we traveled. It was like, you know, we ever had a let's go Europe. Book and $10 a day and that was your, your Eurail pass and you were like travel. So and so I remember being in Greece with two of my buddies I was traveling with and we wanted to go up beyond the Iron Curtain wanted to go to Budapest and East Berlin. And but the quickest way in the map was to go through what was Yuka Slavia. But that was beyond the Iron Curtain. And there was no information on Yugoslavia. It was like it was just like a blank on the map. So no one was really going there. Even though as we know, Dubrovnik is one of the most beautiful tourist areas in the world. So but the reason I'm sharing this is I just decided we just decided to take a bus ride up to Dubrovnik, because we knew Dubrovnik was cool, but there was no information on how to get there. So we just found buses and just trusted rebill to work it out. took off from Greece from Athens and just started heading north along the coast. You know, so those are no the geographies you had to skirt Albania and all the rest of it, but we woke up. I woke up on an overnight bus ride. And you know, that is when you're waking up you have that you're kind of there's a liminal state. You know, sometimes I have a lot of visions and just a lot of good stuff happened psychically just as I'm waking up. And as I woke up, I pulled back the window, the drapes on the windows. I was really groggy, and I looked out and I saw really, we were on a plaza. And I know this is Bosnia. Now I did that I know where it was, was in Bosnia somewhere. So a Muslim culture, as I looked at all I could see was women. The dark eyes of women with their Workers on and their hands like this begging. Now I know I grew up in, you know suburban California, I had never seen that sincerity, authenticity, and raw expression of need, and desperation. These were, these were young women, most of them had babies on their backs. And I was just blown away, I started weeping as I looked out that window. And in that moment, I realized something I should say, I was suffering from chronic pain from the back injury. So I was looking kind of normal. But I was hiding the fact that I was in intense back pain. But it wasn't willing to own it wasn't going to slow down my life. And so the looking in the eyes of, you know, these women, I, I made a commitment to myself that the people like this, these people had something to teach me, like I needed to learn. And I don't know where that came from. But I made a commitment to myself that I'm going to work with underprivileged people who are living close to the edge in poverty. Okay. Fast forward after college. I, you know, I ended up I went to a Catholic prep school in Silicon Valley, and I called up one of my teachers, a Jesuit priest, and I said, Listen, this is my, when I'm feeling like I want to do and he was like, Wow, that's amazing. You know, I'm gonna put you in touch with a Jesuit international volunteer organization. So I ended up working in Belize, Central America is my first job working, you know, teaching the city, which at that time was a very poor city. I still is actually. But at that time, there was only, you know, one, stoplight couple paved roads. It was, it was, you know, it was poor. And then after that, I went down to Guatemala, and then I ended up in Peru. And so I ended up spending a couple of years in Peru almost a year and a half in Peru. And one evening, so I was working with Center for Working children working with very, very, you know, people on the edges, it was there was a civil war going on, there were refugees in our town up from coming down from the war torn areas of the highlands. And we would go we would, as a group, try to get out to the beach, we were about 15 minutes inland on a car ride, try to get out to the beach, you know, during the summertime there, every now and then. And on this Sunday afternoon, we're driving back from the beach. And it's hot, hot in the Atacama Desert, you know, in summertime. And we're on the pavement, you know, well, when those were driving on this two lane road must be I don't know, seven, eight o'clock at night. And we see you see something on the road. And as we're approaching it, we finally realize that's a that's a human body. And you know, the we got a couple of Peruvian people in the car and they said, Don't stop, don't stop, the police come, they'll blame you for it and you know, take you to jail data. And I said, No, we're stopping. I said, No, we're stopping. And so I got out of the car, and I walked over to the body, because I didn't know what I was walking up to really. And I could see that it was a peasant in Spanish that competency. No, you know, a man of the of the field, a man of the land. This was an agrarian worker. And he was in his Sunday best to because they work six days a week and but he so it seemed like he had been perhaps struck by a car. I turned you know, and I turned him over his face. And I turned him over. And I realized that he did not have alcohol on his breath. So this wasn't a belligerent, you know, this wasn't there wasn't recklessness here. So I, you know, I was kind of trying to figure out Is he safe or not? And I and at that time, I took his polls and realize he had a very slight pulse. But he wasn't breathing. So I started mouth to mouth with him right there. And then the car pulled up and we had a wagon here. And so and so as we were doing that, as I was doing that, all of a sudden, I felt just with the first breath after that, all of a sudden my world got really tunnel visioned. And this is something that happens in the shared death experience, we call this the change in the time space continuum. All of a sudden, my vision got narrower, or my sensitive sensory field got really big. And I started feeling presences, like all sudden, I felt like there's some something here, and I wasn't registering it like, like I would today, because now I have these frequently and I know the phenomena, but in that day, I was like, wow, this is interesting. And it was very sublime. It was like, okay, and I got the sense that you're doing the right thing. Like all of a sudden, I got the sense of guidance, like, yes, do this. There was clarity, there was focus, there was guidance. I can't say that I felt specific beings or angels. No, I couldn't say that. I could say that there was presences around undifferentiated that I was feeling. And so I continued to CPR, I put him in the back of the, the wagoneer, we took him to the hospital. And I felt like I was in this altered state. During this entire experience, we finally dropped him off at the hospital, I walked in, they said they would take care of him. And I said I'd come back the next day, they said you could give blood the next day. And I felt this incredible connection with this compass, you know, and it was just weird. And I the connection, I believe, came because of this deep spiritual experience that we had shared together in a certain way he completely unconscious. So that would be my first one of that sense of whether something happening now. So he would, I would come back the next subsequent two days, they did tell me that he has, you know, severe brain damage, and it would not be coming. If he did come back, you would not be normal. And then he died a couple days later. And then I came when I realized that he had died. I came in the morning at two days later. And I said he died earlier this morning. And then when I heard that, I went out into the courtyard, and the hospital has a clear blue day, I'll never, you know, just course in the desert, they're all that way. But it was just clear and warm. Summertime. I just sat down on the bench, I started weeping. I don't even know why. And then again, those presences came back. And I got this sense of this real guidance of like, Thank you, thank you, you, you You did well, or you you just did what you were supposed to do. It was there wasn't like anything, like, you know, holding you up as a saint, it was just like, Thank you for carry. And that felt like as good as I felt in my life really, like I was doing what I came here to do it felt right. Anyway. So that's my first shared death experience. And then the one at the hospice was the beginning of another round of these, that would be much clearer in a certain way like I you know, I would having out of body experiences changing the geometry of the room, light changes. You know, I didn't have very many life reviews with people. I didn't visit very many I don't can't remember visiting, you know, heavenly realms as I did you know, later and other times, but that but the definitely working at hospice Zen hospice in San Francisco for two plus years that I did with dying people all the time, that really put me in touch with these experiences. Now, at the time, there was no name for this experience. And I would share I shared it once with my supervisor I thought the world of and he didn't have a name for it either. He didn't even really want to hear it. I wouldn't didn't not not then did not they didn't want to hear it. He just didn't think it was that important. He just kind of said, you know, continue the work. You know, there's a lot of people need your help here. So, so yeah, it wasn't till 2000 and I when I heard Raymond Moody, speak about the shared death experience at a conference where I just lit up like a Christmas tree and said, Oh, my God, there's a name for this. I had no idea. So I talked to Raymond about it and Raymond is become a really
Alex Ferrari 29:30
Sweet sweet man,
William J. Peters 29:31
Sweet man, really supportive of the work of agreement and I are teaching a course right now together on the shared death experience. And at that time, he just looked at me and this was all affirming to said, William, if you think you can do research on this and know how about to do that he goes, That's great because there's been no research done to date. And we do know that these experiences exist in the literature, just you know, in disparate places under different names, but I'll you all support you and best i Can't and so he did. I mean, he, he provided some guidance initially and hadn't come out to Santa Barbara to raise money for the research project. And, and as it turned out, you know, I started teaching about shared death experiences and found that they were ubiquitous. People are having these things right and left they don't know a name for it. Hospital staff typically doesn't know about them, doesn't really know what to do with them seems to suggest that people may be having grief, grief hallucinations. Now the season Hoffs hospice workers, like Maggie Callahan, who wrote final gifts, a great book on nearing death awareness, she was well aware of this. In fact, she wrote, you know, an endorsement on my book, because she thinks that this experience is one that's going to like her work is going to revolutionize end of life care, because when people know that these experiences exist, and that you can have them and then you can prepare for them, you can enable them in a certain way, people are going to want them. And it's going to change end of life care. So, so that's how we got started. And I can go on more and more, but I've been going for a bit here.
Alex Ferrari 31:17
So no, that's fascinating when so when you're in a hospice room, and you had these shared death experiences, are you kind of a guide? Or does the person that is dying know what's going on? Are you there to help them along? Sometimes they're just smiling at you like, what what's the, what is your place here? What is your purpose during that process?
William J. Peters 31:41
You know, this is a that's a very insightful question, because that's one of the one of the questions I was asking early on was what? Not just what's the purpose of this? That was another question. But what are the different ways in which the experiencer the shared death experience or can participate in this shared death experience? And like, what's their role? Like, what what's going on here, like, so to boil it down to the low gravy, as they say, in the south, there are four modes of participation. The first mode is sensing at a distance, now you're gonna say syncing at a distance? What does that mean? Well, yeah, the one of the fascinating aspects to the shared death experiences, you don't have to be a bedside, two thirds of shared death experiences for 64% happen remotely, that means down the hall, cross town or across the world, time does time and space, in a certain way, space certainly doesn't make a difference time makes a difference, presumably, but in 25% of our cases, they don't happen at the time of death, they happen, you know, an hour before or later, what have you. So the first, first way to experience a shared death experience is through sensing at a distance. So sensing in a distance would be something like, you feel chills and your cross your body, you then think about a good friend of yours or a loved one, and you have this kind of arrest in your heart, you know, something just happened to John, like, Oh, my God, something just I got to college, I gotta call John. And, and there's different ways you can have that. So the other way is, you could be you know, down the hall of in your house and someone dies. And you could see that person in your inputs, feels like a dream, but it's really a vision, and they've come to you and said, I'm okay. Just want you know, I'm okay. And they're gone. These are sensing at a distance. So the next one is witnessing or observing what we call death related phenomena, which is basically near death phenomena. So you see a chart change in the time space continuum as the first one, you get disoriented, the room changes, shapes, all that you see the light in a different way, the light may be cascading. You know, by the way, the change times change the time space continuum can be pretty freaky in the sense that walls can fall down, ceiling goes away, you're looking into the heavens, these are big, these are not just, you know, little disorientation, your view it starts that way. But it tends to bleed into other phenomena, like the ceiling goes away and all of a sudden, you feel like you're in a galaxy, you're no longer in the human realm. So that's, you know, heavenly realms, you'll see deceased relatives, you'll see the dying the most common entity you see in the shared death experience is the dying 51% of our cases we stay report seeing the dying 16% of the time you'll see an elevated spirit being if you will, and Angels guide, elevated wise ascended something or other that is often called I've named the term and some of these, they call it refer to it as the conductor there seems to be this force that is guiding the whole transition for the dying. And then oftentimes it's an angel, light being whatever and it's recognizes this, this entity is in charge of this. The third type of entity you see is deceased relative friend of the dying. And that's 13% of time. So those are some of the main phenomena, I guess the other one that matches up pretty closely with the Near Death Experiences. You're going along as a shared death experience. And all of a sudden, you realize, oh, this as far as I can go. So maybe there's a welcoming party, that you see that the dying is going into, and you know, it's all jovial and you're, you're blissed out and happy and all of a sudden, you realize, oh, I can't go to that party. Yeah, security's gonna stop me. Yeah, exactly. There's a bouncer, and you're about to get bounced. And then when that happens, once you realize that you are instantly back in your body, I mean, and that when that when you hit that boundary, it's over. And then they're back, and you're literally back in the human body. So that's all witnessing unusual for a phenomena related to death. That's the second type of mode of participation, the third type is accompany. So that means you actually are with the dying, and you are moving along in this journey from the human life into the afterlife. And typically, seeing all the phenomena I've described, and moving towards the light, the light serving as the ultimate destination, at least for what we can tell. Now, we know there's something beyond that. But in terms of the bounds of the shared death experience, we know of nobody who's gone into the light and gone past the light, we know that people have gone into the light stopped. And that's it, they typically don't go as far into the light as nd II experiences, they tend to get up close to the light, maybe close to light, maybe not, a lot of times, they don't even get close to the light, see the light in the distance. And that's it. So, so that's, that's accompanying, but in some cases, very small percentage, 6%, but quite significant, especially when you hear the experience, the experiencer expresses that they were called into the experience in some way they don't quite understand. And their role was to assist the dying in the transition typically about orienting them as to where they are in their journey. And it begins with Hey, you know, you've died. And then you know, you're confused, you might want to turn towards the light. And by the way, there are some spirit guides up here that can help you. And then you move along with them, to orient them and then at some point, you've done your job, you typically hand off the dye to some elevated Dean's deceased relatives, and you're done. And you hit the boundary and you're back. But that's the fourth mode of participation, namely assisting or guiding the die.
Alex Ferrari 38:05
That's fascinating, because, I mean, after talking to so many near death, experiencers there is a disorientation. There's a remembering, of like who you truly are like you've been wearing this suit for so long, you forgot what it's like, without the suit, and you forgot where you even came from what you really are and all this stuff. And there's that kind of remembering. And that's why they're they're like No, no Come this way. Kind of like you're hazy, like you just woke up. And you see what's going on what's happening. And then you need. So sometimes the the shirt death experiencer is there to act as a guide as well, which is fascinating, is really truly fascinating.
William J. Peters 38:46
Fascinating. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, the whole experience is like a near death experience. But what's so interesting is there's no trauma,
Alex Ferrari 39:01
For the shared for the person doing the sharing.
William J. Peters 39:03
Yeah, for the shared death experience, or there's like the near death experience, you have to have a brush with death.
Alex Ferrari 39:09
Right! Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. What are what are the the major benefits that that shared death experiencers have when they come back into their body? Because I'm assuming how many how many of the have you had in your life?
William J. Peters 39:31
Probably had a couple of dozen.
Alex Ferrari 39:33
Okay, so you've had a couple dozen. So do you have the same benefits that do you get the same benefits that are near death experience or gets those kinds of what are they called the After Effects and major After Effects?
William J. Peters 39:49
Very similar. Let me go through them with you. So the primary after effect, which is obviously different than the SDE we'll start with an NDE but I'll start with it. And that is a sense that your departed deceased loved one is a live and well, and content in a benevolent afterlife. That's the first one you get. The second one that is shared along with the SDE is the nde is that well, you know that the you survive human death. And you exist in a benevolent realm, call it heaven call what you want an afterlife. So there's that one, your fear of death and dying? Why should say of death is alleviated? Dying itself is still can be difficult, but yeah, exactly. But death itself No, no fear there. Your grief is radically different in a shared death experience, because you have a sense that your loved one while you grieve them, you miss them as you naturally would, you have a larger context to hold the light the loss in, you realize that there's something bigger going on here and that this human existence exists inside a larger, ultimate reality. And the for the fifth, after a fact, if I've got them numbered out correctly is that you have a renewed understanding for the purpose of a human life, both generally and specific to you. So people will come back and say, I've got to you, I know I'm here for a short period of time, this life has purpose and meaning I gotta get about doing it, and living it out. So that looks like people often change relationships, change professions, you know, make big life decisions. And that that's what they feel like they're called to do. And most people, if you talk to him many years later are very grateful for those changes and attributed to the, to their shared death experience.
Alex Ferrari 42:17
And they also do they also come back more empathetic, more kind more aware of how their actions affects other people and so on.
William J. Peters 42:25
I think there's some an effective Well, that would be That's a good question. I you know, there is a there is some data that suggests that they come back with psychic abilities or other gifts, intuitive gifts. What we do know is this is that when you have one SDE, you're likely to have more, and like 41% of the people and are now over 250 interviewees, our participants in our research have had more than one. So that tells you something. So there's some sort of what I would call wiring, or software, if you wanted to be a little use that metaphor that allows you to be receptive, and capable of having more of these experiences and the other highly desirable. So people don't shy away from them if they you know, a lot of us get into end of life work. And it's not all of us. But some of us because we want to be around death and dying because it's a gateway to these experiences.
Alex Ferrari 43:38
And it also gets you It also gives you a much clearer understanding of dying, because it's something that we all eventually rich or poor, big or small. We all go we all start off the same way. We all in the same way. That's correct. Yeah, at that. So you become much more you're like you said, less afraid of death. It's not this Boogeyman. It's not the guy with the sickle sitting there waiting for you. It's not a negative thing. It's like it's part of the process, just like there's a winter and a summer and a spring and a fall there are these seasons within a life and at the end. It's just part of as as, as they say in The Lion King, it's the circle of life.
William J. Peters 44:22
It is it is and I think you said it really well there because there is an acceptance and a receptivity and a and a piece. A real piece about this is the way it goes and it's all good. And it's and you know, I often say it's a kind design, you realize that there's a force at play here. And we're here on earth for certain reasons, mostly to learn it seems like but that this will be over at some point and that's just the way it's designed. And it's
Alex Ferrari 45:01
It's like, it's like a movie. You mean a good movie? It's a good movie, but there's still an end.
William J. Peters 45:06
That's right. That's right.
Alex Ferrari 45:09
They're still in and as much as you want it to live in that world and I've seen movies that I've just been enthralled with the, the world and the characters and, and the the universe that they live in, that you want to live there, but at the end of the day, the movie has that the end comes up. So it is a process on of everything that we do. Can you talk a little bit about the pre death premonitions.
William J. Peters 45:39
Oh yeah. So. So, when I let me give some history on this, when I started, after I met Raymond Moody, I poured myself into research on shared experiences, they came up under a variety of different names and primarily the London Society for Psychical Research, had done a good deal of research in the late 1800s. And Sir William Barrett, also of the Society of Psychical Research, published a book called deathbed visions in 1926. And he had like 57 or so accounts, about 17% of them were SDE shared death experiences, I read through all of them and you know, it the language is a little anachronistic, so had to send partial details. So but in that I realized there were a lot of phenomena. Now, what's interesting is these researchers called most of this phenomena generally was fell under the general category of apparitions at death, apparitions, deaths, that's very, that's very wide definition, if you will. But as I was doing this, people would come, I would be interviewing and I had a big clinical practice still left, I still see people clinically, but now more of a researcher and presenter and teacher or what have you. But in the days when I was seeing lots of people and put out, you know, told people I was interested in my colleagues knew about it, I was getting all sorts of people with lots of different phenomena. So I don't know if I hadn't shared death experience, William, but I had this experience. And I so I created through this clinical work, my own map to make sense of what these variety of end of life experiences were. And I called it the spectrum of end of life experiences. And it began with to answer your question pre death, premonitions. So the first phenomena that I often heard was, well, this is gonna sound strange, William, but I know I'm here to talk about the death of my father. And I did have a shared death experience with him and Dakota. But something else I want to share with you is that about three months before he died, and he remember, he didn't have any symptoms, he was perfectly healthy. I had this vision of my father dying suddenly, and me being there to comfort him in his final moments. And he said, it was just the most bizarre and scary vision it was more real than real. Like, I it was not a dream, William, it was happening. And I thought, okay, and he said, then, then he, this gentleman says to me, and when he died, and I got word of it, it felt exactly the same way. Like I had a pre cognitive experience that told me exactly how my father was going to die, what my relationship was going to be to it and prepare me for how I was going to feel that's a pre death premonition right there. And that means essentially, that you have knowledge of someone's death or your own death, before it actually happens. And pre death. premonitions can happen, you know, many years in advance, but the bulk of them happen within a year or so months out in advance, and you'll if you're observant, you might see people exhibiting different behavior. So one thing I like I've often noticed, and I saw this in my research as well, continue to see it is you know, I'm in a university town here and I remember I, a wife of a professor coming to me and saying, This is for grief and bereavement counseling. Her husband professor had died. She came to me and she said the strangest thing happened three months ago, just before he died. So he was an absent minded professor. He was fanatical about what he did. He always had books and papers strewn all over the place. But all of a sudden, he started cleaning his desk. He started organizing his notes and, and returning books to colleagues and writing notes saying thank you for this and that And so he actually did something that that was really strange. He kind of was preparing for a sabbatical, but he didn't really have a sabbatical coming up. And she said, It's just I look, as I look back at it now, I think he knew he was going to die at some level, that this is fascinating, because I said, did he ever tell you that? That he thought something happened? No, you never mentioned it. But the reason why I share this is because I think there are levels of knowing there's levels of awareness. Sometimes you have a dream or a vision or an experience that lets you know, this is a pre cognitive event, it's preparing you informing you that someone you or someone you know is going to die. And sometimes it impacts you below your consciousness as it did with this professor. Because she by the time he died, he literally said to her, like a few, like a few, he died tragically to suddenly. But but he she said a few weeks before he died, he said, you know, by the way, you know, I just want to let you know, the estate plan is here, as we discussed, and you know, she's like, What are you telling me all this for? And he goes, Well, you know, I just you know, you were not young, you know, but he didn't he didn't connect it up to like, I'm die. But he had some intuitive sensory guidance to let him know something was happening.
Alex Ferrari 51:23
Clean up your clean up your business. Clean up your business. Yeah, clean up your business. You've used the term before called terminal, lucid, lucid, lucidity?
William J. Peters 51:33
Terminal lucidity. Yeah, acidity. Yeah. What is that? So that terminal lucidity is that's also our spectrum of endo life experiences. And let me just go through the spectrum real quick. So the spectrum is predicted premonitions. Like I said, a few months, year two in advance, predict synchronous, predict synchronicities happen as well. Those are things like, you know, you just see these synchronistic events, like all of a sudden, the, you know, birds will be circling around your house black crows are something moments before the death of somebody and you're like, What is that all about? And like, I know, I've seen crows, but never like that pros are gathering and you know, like, all of a sudden your grandfather dies. Okay, so that's a pretest synchronicity, by the way, synchronicities happened throughout death and dying processes, you know, before during, after, there's pre death visions of visitations, that's when the dying and caregivers as well but primarily dying, report seeing deceased relatives who have come to say, hey, get your affairs ready, or we're coming for you don't worry about it's all being managed. And then there's this terminal lucidity, which we'll come back to in a second, but I'll define it now, which is this unexplainable, physiological capability that is not possible, given the medical condition that you're in. And yet you exhibit these physiological behaviors, whether it's whether you have Alzheimer's, and all of a sudden you have acute, sharp, accurate cognition. You know, we see to hear about this all the time, persons with Alzheimer's, come to their alert, and that they talk to their people along the bed around the bed and telling them asking them questions that are pertinent to their current life, even things that happened in the last few days. And everyone's like, well, she's been comatose and semi conscious. For months, if not years. How did she know to ask me about this? I never told her about it. So that's terminal lucidity. You also see that physical expression as well. So blind people see, you know, people that have been crippled or bedridden, get up and move around their bed.
Alex Ferrari 53:53
Liked what I heard Steve Jobs and Betty White both had similar at the end.
William J. Peters 53:59
Very well. Those are great popular figures. So Steve White, excuse me, Steve. Right. Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs, as reported by his sister, Mona Simpson. He had you know, he'd been suffering from cancer or some type of abdominal area cancer. He was liver cancer. And he was, you know, semi conscious, largely unresponsive. And then he opened his eyes just moments before he died. Big eyes open and said, Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Now we call that a terminally lucid event because he didn't. Yeah, he was comatose. And then he died soon after that. So terminal lucidity is confusing, because if you don't know about it, it looks like hey, the person is recovering. They're getting over their cancer. They're coming back to life. But in fact, it's a harbinger for death coming shortly. So yeah, that's a good one. And then the one you're talking about Betty White, is that her caregiver reported that Betty opened her eyes moments before she died. She is largely unresponsive. And she called out to name to her partner life partner for many years, whose name I can't remember Alan. Alan, that's correct, Alan. And and that's a terminally lucid event. Because as the caregiver says, like, you know, she hadn't done any communication with anybody. And yet, then she opens her eyes. And she goes, Alan, Alan, and she's engaging with them. So the interpretation for terminal lucidity is that you're peering beyond the veil. And in Steve Jobs case, he was looking at something clearly amazing and gave voice to it. And and Betty White's case, it seemed like her life partner, Allen was there to greet her and meet her, which we often see, and the shared death experience, which comes, you know, well, if you follow the map of this right after, if this person dies, and Betty White dies, well, it's very likely that she's going to be greeted by Alan and other departed loved ones. And we see that in the shed I've experienced, there's a lot of corroboration in these experiences. And then if you go to the flip side, if you will have after death experiences, we have a lot of posts, we call it direct post death communication. That's when a loved one bereaved loved one feels like they're asking, there's the departed loved one is in their mind hearing their thoughts and questions, and will often answer questions they didn't even know they're asking things can be as trivial as where to sit the relatives at the funeral? Or what kind of flowers to get to the funeral? Or what should I wear to the funeral? I mean, when you start hearing this as a researcher, like, holy moly, why do these people care so much about the funeral? And they're giving instructions, the other one is posed as visions and visitations. And that's where you feel you, you know, typically, you are in your room and a quiet place. And all of a sudden, you see your departed loved one appear at the foot of your bed, and they've come to you and they say something like, I just wanted to let you know I'm okay. Hope you're well love you. And I often give a little a hint or instruction about something like, Hey, you might want to take that job or
Alex Ferrari 57:16
Buy Apple buy Apple at $7.
William J. Peters 57:18
Yeah, exactly exactly. That type of thing. Yeah, those are the main ones we see there Alex. Yeah!
Alex Ferrari 57:26
That's pretty. It's it's amazingly remarkable. What I love, what you've done is that you've, you've gone into this as a researcher as Yeah, as a, almost a scientist, if you will, in the way that you're approaching, cataloging these experiences, and giving a framework to a tribe, which really never had frameworks before. I mean, look, I've heard of, you know, my grandparents would talk about things like, you know, when the Oh, my sister died, you know, woke up in the middle of the night, she was at my bedside or, you know, smiling at me or something like that. And you hear these things as you're a kid, and you're just like, oh, okay, grandma's grandma has been hitting the whiskey again. You know, or something, those kinds of things, or, you know, someone dies. And you have a dream of them dying. But you didn't know that they were dead yet. Yeah. And you're like, you wake up in the morning, you're like, I think, Auntie died, or something along those lines. There was a really, I'll tell you one, this was a really strange one. I think you'll be very interested in this. Yeah. My aunt who I adored, passed about a year and change ago, maybe a year and a half ago, two years ago. And, you know, I got to see her probably three or four months earlier. I got to actually see her again. And I hadn't been in Florida in a decade. And I got to see her and I showed her my kids and all that stuff on the phone. And when she passed a few days later, so weird. I was doing a project where I was going through old videotapes. For a project I was working on, and all of a sudden, while I was playing back an old VHS there was a three minute scene that I forgot that existed. But then I vaguely remember shooting, which was a Thanksgiving scene at my father's house, with all of my family around a lot of a lot of the family on that side of the family around. And there she was. Young, you know, in her probably in her 50s, early 60s, and I pray I pray even younger than that part in her 50s and she was there and I just found it so odd. That basically two to three days later Are. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. This video came up and then I shared that video with my family who there was really no footage of her and existence other than this magical three minutes that was sitting in a VHS and a box of work, which I didn't even know was there. I was just scanning through the VHS and there she was, I was like, how in God's green earth did that happen? Yeah. Have you ever heard of anything like that? Because that's a really that was for me. Even then I'm like, Man, that seems the timing is a little off.
William J. Peters 1:00:39
Yeah. And that's what we call, you know, a synchronicity. When you as the experiences says, Wait a minute, I this is far beyond chance. This is just not coincidental. It seems like I was guided here, or there's some force at play that is manifesting this experience for me that is meaningful to me and to my family and is healing. Yeah, we see that quite a bit. I have to say, as a researcher, you hear like a few dozen of those cases, and you go like, okay, there's a lot of chance here. But people like to believe that there's, you know that there's something meaningful behind this. But now, after I've heard, you know, 1000 plus of these, I'm like, No, these are, these are events far beyond chance, far beyond coincidence, far beyond probability. And they're inherently meaningful to people.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:34
So I encourage you, that's what I found so wonderful about it is that it was a wonderful way of almost saying goodbye to her. And, and for my family, like my father, and whatever relatives or loved that know her. When I sent it out on a text and an email. People were like, crying like, Oh, my God, look at her, like, I can't believe that that was. And there was my grandmother was there she had passed on years earlier. Like it was his whole family thing. But it was three minutes. That was I was I was practicing a new camera that I bought, in 90, whatever, 92 or 90 93, or 94, or something like that. And I truly never even knew it existed. It was so far gone. And that just popped up two or three days after two passes. I was like, no, no, no, no, this is, this is way too coincidental for me, because there would be no reason in the world for me to even look into that box. Yeah, via VHS. Seriously, I don't even I didn't have a VHS I was doing a project that that will buy a VHS deck, bring it in to watch some of these old VHS is that I had, because I was doing some some work on it. But it just it was just the timing was so off on it. So I just found it's interesting. It's, and that's something very recent that happened.
William J. Peters 1:02:54
Yeah, and I would completely affirm you not just because, you know, I want to affirm you, I'd say it's in the research. We have people that sheepishly you know, almost with a sense of shame, say, you know, I had this experience, and I mean, I think it is pretty random. It is really meaningful. But am I making this up? Am I trying to make more of this then is, and we say, you know, I say clinically? Absolutely not, you're a reasonable person, you live your life, you know how things go in this world? If it falls out, you know, outside the bell curve, then you know that it's a special event, you know, and there's probably some force coordinating it. Can I prove that? No, but I can do it the research, I can say, you know, 1000s of people have these experiences, and they feel just like you,
Alex Ferrari 1:03:49
From all walks of life, from all walks of life, from all walks of life, every religion, every community, every everything, every every kind of tribe in the world, because you got it. Now, can you tell me what the shared crossing project is?
William J. Peters 1:04:05
Yeah. So I started the sharecropping project in 2013. And the goal was to positively transform people's relationship to death and dying and end of life through raising awareness. Essentially, educating people about these profound end of life experiences that we've just been discussing these these experiences that are inherently meaningful, spiritual. Granted, they're far out to the mainstream. But my goal is you identified it was to give a very research based structural framework so that rational, reasonable people could see that these experiences happen, that they're valid, and that they are they contribute, and I think the highest way to a best The end of life possible, like they really help people have good deaths, and learn things that we've already identified the after effects that will ease their grief that will let them know that their loved ones are alive and well somewhere. And then the second aspect of our mission sharecropping project, which is always really important to me. I mean, in terms of something that I just thought was imperative, was to bring people together in community to talk about these experiences, because when you start hearing other people, talk about them, you know, when you know, Suzy, who you know, works with the post office, or the library comes in, and you see her every day. And you she shares her experience with their, you know, mother when she died, and she has this shared death experience. And you're like, wow, hey, if Susie had them, it's kind of funny, it sounds similar to what we had when you know, so and so died. It's like, okay, so you bring these people together, and you start realizing these experiences happen all over the place? And and they do, and they do, can I tell you, how, what's Can I tell you? What's the frequency? And what portion of the population have them? No, but I can tell you that they are far more common than you, then the general public knows.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:16
Now I'm gonna ask you two questions asked all my guests. What is your mission in this life?
William J. Peters 1:06:22
Well, I think my mission in this life is, is twofold at the level of kind of work and contribution to the common good. It's to just said, It's my mission is to share crossing project to help people come into relationship with death and dying through through learning about these experiences, so they can have better end of lives and realize that we're human beings here. Now we're spiritual beings, and we're having a human experience in that, all we can tell from the research is that we survive this human life and go on to a beautiful afterlife. And, and that's my work, that's my work life. But I also have my own personal responsibilities, I have a loving daughter, and really committed to being the best father, I can be for her. And my friends and community and family relationships are very important to me. And in those relationships, I think I learned the virtues, or at least I tried to practice them a patience, of kindness of caring. I think that's the other part of that kind of the side of my personal growth side, if you will, developing those virtues, which I will say for me, as a hard working guy, and I do much better at the work that I do. At the level of I find life can be pretty, you know, irritable and cranky at times. And so that's that I have to work on that too. So
Alex Ferrari 1:07:51
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
William J. Peters 1:07:56
Well, I think the ultimate purpose is to elevate, if you will, your soul spirit, I think there's something about this place, it's a school, it's like, a multi level, layered, if you will, University of sorts, and people come here we incarnate and get our own personal curriculums within the great University of human life. And, and that's the purpose is to learn to grow to become more loving, kind aware. And, and this is, you know, this is a training ground for that. And I, one thing that I have to be careful about is some people think that I'm rather how to say this, that I look at life a little too lightly, like, like, some of my close friends will say, you know, you don't really, you don't really seem to be concerned about dying. And like you don't you know, I said, Well, I'm not really No, I mean, I want to live as long as I can healthily in service. But I don't have a sense. I mean, I have a sense that this is not the end all at all. I mean, I feel like this is a part of the journey, not the destination. And in some, you know, and I'm a Buddhist practitioner, and I believe that that this life has a good deal of suffering in it. And I think this is a relatively hard round. Look around. Oh, it's rough. It's rough. I mean, come on. Now. This is you know, you have to be out of your gourd to think that this is a heavenly realm. I mean, there's a lot of beauty here there's a lot of
Alex Ferrari 1:09:39
I can be blissful and you could go into deeper philosophical conversations, allowing the external to affect the internal and if you find bliss within yourself and you I mean, I'm sure Buddha as he walked enlightened through the through the earth, He hid a lot of the external did not affect them as much because it does to normal people and, and then normal people, people who haven't been enlightened, and so on and so forth. So there's a larger philosophical conversation, but I understand what you're saying, completely. I mean, look, we've all gone through stuff. Yeah, we've all gone through trauma, we've all gone through some sort of suffering, with some suffer more than others. Some are more aware of things and others, it is a journey. It's a process, we're all walking a path. And we all have our I love the individual curriculums. Because we truly do. And I personally do believe that the earth the universe is a kind universe, and that whatever is pushing you on the path that you need to walk on, is there for your benefit. And as you and I both have been around the block a few times, you start looking back at your life and going, what was what I thought was the worst thing that could ever have happened to me at that moment? Actually, really, I'm very grateful for it, because it completely made me who I am. And it guided me through this, or I lost that job. And I got this job and you know, all this kind of stuff. So yeah, fascinating conversation.
William J. Peters 1:11:04
It is. And I yeah, I mean, and, you know, even you know, like, it's kind of, you know, I lived in Central and South America, some pretty hard places. I one of the biggest teachings for me there was that most of the people that I was, quote, unquote, there to help and serve, are happier than me. And most of my contemporaries in the United States of America, I, you wouldn't look that way if you took a photo. But I think there was, you know, in compared material life circumstances. But I just think it'd be got to be very careful about how we rank and sort and look at people's individual curriculums. I, you know, I remember giving a talk. I will actually I was at a workshop, but it was a talk within a research workshop. And I said I was doing, I do a lot of guided visualizations in my work with people as I prepare them for healthy end of lives. And prepare them is a parody for a conscious, connected and loving end of life experience with a lot of these shared crossing experiences, so you can have them, but I was teaching guiding people through a review of their life. And they, you know, they were imagining being dead, and they were reviewing their life. And I just asked him to look at what had they accomplished in their life? What were the things they were most proud of, and someone came up to me afterwards and said, You know, I was a, I grew up poor, and I married and I ended up, you know, having two kids with disabilities, and that's my whole life, I took care of those kids. And, you know, my husband and I, we loved each other. And she has, but you know, I hear you say, accomplished in your life. I don't, it's really difficult for me to hear because now I see you doing your teaching, and I, some other people in this group have made major contributions to science, or, you know, big jobs isn't I've just been a housewife, just doing the best I could to care for my two disabled kids. I stopped and I looked at it. And I said, that is the most beautiful curriculum for this life. That one of the most beautiful I've ever heard. Like, you're telling me that you came here, you grew up poor, you married and you know, you had the Fate, destiny, whatever, to have two disabled kids and you cared for them, through your through their lives? And wow, what an amazing opportunity. I can only imagine that you develop patience, kindness, empathy, empathy, compassion. And all the difficult conversations I imagine you had with your, with your husband about what was the best way to be with them, how to allocate resources, all of that. She goes, yeah. I said, Wow, congratulations. You know, you've lived a full life. So I say that because I wanted to be really careful about, you know, not all here to, you know, solve cancer or be Gandhi or Martin Luther King. I mean, most of us are living pretty, you know, employees lives, you know, they may look boring on the outside in certain way. And even the, even the, you know, the nine to fivers, which is so many people are, like, you know, well, you know, are you You kind of yours, your work, your fellow workers are, you know, whatever. I mean, there are lots of circumstances, very individual curriculums, we have to be careful about judgment for ourselves, especially when you're listening to someone like me, you know, who's like, you know, author and, you know, I'm the first person to say and people around me will say, you know, William works hard, he makes contributions, but, you know, first guy to say I've got a lot of stuff to work on and, you know, so
Alex Ferrari 1:14:58
Absolutely! And where can people find out more about you and the work you're doing and where to buy the book?
William J. Peters 1:15:03
Yeah, thanks. So you know, sharecrossing.com is my website and a website for my organization. And what I want to encourage people there on that website is there's a lot of free resources. And one of them is the story library that I've been trying to create for years, and finally got it up just before the end of 2021. And we have stories, video cases, essentially, of people sharing their shared death experiences, it's a great way for people to learn about these experiences firsthand from experiences. It's no other library like it, and that I've seen anywhere where you can see, you know, I think eight or nine we have right now we'll be adding more. So that's just a great resource. And, you know, you can also follow us on you know, Twitter, and Facebook and Instagram, and I try to provide good material there to a lot of our interviews and videos and things like that just good stuff. It's just not just it's a community, for sure. But I try to seed it with good information so that people can feel like they're going there and getting good information. And the book at heaven's door, I will say, that is the time I wrote that which is not two years ago, but it published in January of 2022. It has really, I'll say, My favorite collection of shared death experiences with different relationships, different types of people, so good diversity, you know, mothers losing children and having SDEs with them, Mother, you know, sons, a grown adults with parents, spouses, children die. So it's a good cross reference of different deaths, and all extremely spiritual and uninspiring. So and that's an audio and in Kindle and hardback and what have you. So,
Alex Ferrari 1:16:55
My friend, thank you so much for coming on the show. And thank you for the work that you've been doing and helping the world with their, with this process that we're all going to have to go through at one point or another. So I truly appreciate you my friend. Thank you so much!
William J. Peters 1:17:09
Alex, thanks,pleasure being with you really appreciate our conversation and your knowledge about this. That's is wonderful to see how you've had these experiences. Your questions were inspiring to me to say, Oh, wow, this is a real conversation.
Alex Ferrari 1:17:21
I appreciate that.
William J. Peters 1:17:23
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- At Heaven’s Door: : What Shared Journeys to the Afterlife Teach About Dying Well and Living Better
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