Michael Le Flem 0:00
And so when people say, was Atlantis real? Well, yeah, there's a preponderance of evidence that some thing did happen. Or as the New America was rising, the old Atlantis was sinking.

Alex Ferrari 0:13
Growth and destruction. It's very similar to, it mirrors our own life cycle.

Michael Le Flem 0:18
And he says, so you don't know anything when you're awake, but you know everything when you're asleep. And Cayce just stared him down and says, that's what they say. Because this wasn't a purely human person. This was a thought presence that could project itself into materiality.

Alex Ferrari 0:35
It's before the internet. It's before Chat GPT. It's before any of this.

Michael Le Flem 0:39
And then he started to hear things about religion, the life of Christ. And then finally, Atlantis, an ancient river system that used to start at the Nile and empty into the Atlantic Ocean near the Congo. He said this existed.

Alex Ferrari 0:55
And you just look at history, no empire lasts forever.

I like to welcome back to the show returning champion Michael Le Flem, how you doing Michael?

Michael Le Flem 1:13
Hey, Alex, thank you for having me back.

Alex Ferrari 1:17
Yeah, man, our last conversation, dude was fairly epic. Man, we went down the deep Atlantis rabbit hole man,

Michael Le Flem 1:24
We sure did man.

Alex Ferrari 1:25
Dude, I learned so much that book that you were referring to. This, the channeled, all the channeled information. I forgot that really difficult book to read.

Michael Le Flem 1:33
Oh, a dweller on two planets.

Alex Ferrari 1:34
The dweller on two planets. That's right, and I remember, you know, it's funny after that, after that interview, you know, we had a link to that book, and your book, and we started to see a lot of people buying that, that old book. They wanted to go down that rabbit hole man.

Michael Le Flem 1:52
Yes, I don't want to take credit for it, because, again, the author, you know, was a channeled spirit, you know, named philos, according to Frederick Oliver, the guy who penned it, but, yeah, we definitely made some some sales for that disembodied, disincarnate spirit, because I saw the same thing. I saw it going to number one, actually, a couple months after our show aired. And I thought, I don't think people out of nowhere are buying a channel book on Atlantis written in 1886 because, you know, CNN told them to so,

Alex Ferrari 2:24
Absolutely man. So wanted to have you back, because I know you've, you've, you've continued your research into Atlantis, as it's an endless well that could take lifetimes too, to say the least. So first thing I wanted to kind of go down the road was, is Edgar Cayce? You know, we've spoken about Edgar Cayce on the show a bunch in the past. He was one of the very first, he was the first channel that I really was interacted with. Read his books, read the Atlanta I think I have the Atlantis book, but I have the the original Edgar Cayce Atlantis book. It's a classic, and it's really interesting about how he he spoke about it so extensively. How did, what is your research in regards to Edgar and understanding what Atlantis was based on what he was he was able to channel through?

Michael Le Flem 3:22
Well, that's a great question, and it really is a fundamental part of my book. And you know, Edgar Cayce, to me, was somebody that I came to kind of in the middle of my research. I had started just as a historian myself, looking at the historical sources, and, you know, Plato and other pre platonic sources, and some Indian sources. But really I wanted to get, to the best of my ability, a clearer picture beyond just the traditional historical or geological or archeological evidence. I wanted to go into that realm of clairvoyance, remote viewing, which, you know, has helped so many people in these types of searches, and included, you know, including the CIA and the NSA, who have been using remote viewers since the 70s, documented for military intelligence. And so I came across, naturally, Edgar Cayce, just at the bookstore, you know, in the Clairvoyant remote viewing section, and didn't think much about it at first, you know, and then I read a couple of his biographies, and that's what really got me fascinated. You know, there is a river his first biography, which was written when he was alive, by Thomas Sugrue, and then the one that put me over the edge to use him as a source was a incredible book. Here's another one that can go to number one on Amazon. It's one of the most beautifully written biographies, period. But it's called a seer out of season, and it was written by a guy named Dr Harmonbro who was a, he was an intern at the University of Chicago, who, in the, I think, mid 40s during World War Two. He his wife, actually got an invitation to be an intern with Edgar Cayce. And he was, you know, just a 1920 year old kid, and he actually went down to Virginia Beach, and so for the last about three years of Edgar Cayce's life, because I think he died in 1945 this guy who was a very strict skeptic, materialistic, you know, thinking person, witnessed all these incredible hypnagogic trance sessions that Edgar Cayce gave for missing persons or health readings. And then he started to hear things about religion, the life of Christ. And then finally, Atlantis, and I use him because he was there. He was incredibly skeptical, you know, just like so many other people who eventually, you know, came from Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, these doctors who heard about Cayce and came to try to debunk his abilities, but were unable to and actually he was reported on the New York Times. So Edgar Cayce was famous in his own time, mainly for giving medical readings about people's rare illnesses, at a time when naturopathic medicine was under attack by the Flexner Report and the Rockefeller kind of pharmaceutical, the origins of the current medical system we have today. But within these readings, occasionally he would mention this lost civilization, you know, in a very mundane way, he would just say, well, this illness is caused by your failure to address karmic issues you've dealt with with your husband in the second destruction of Atlantis in 28,000 BC. You know which to people from Virginia Beach who were traditional Southern Christians in the 1940s This must have sounded ridiculous, and so thank God, Alex, he had a stenographer, Gladys Davis, with him for at least, you know 10,000 of his you know 14,000 plus readings. And so there's an entire enormous physical archive in virginia beach that has all of his data and has thanked God for the purposes of my book, digitized it with search functions. And so I was able, over seven years, to go through all the Atlantis readings. And really, Colette, like kind of corroborate about 20 years of readings he gave, you know, from about 1923, 24 that's when he first started talking about Atlantis. And then it started to get more frequent towards the 40s, but over a span of about 20 years, you know, spread out over months between each reading this word and this topic would come up. And so I pieced together all the dates, all the people, all the names he said, on a kind of grand storyboard, and then tried to corroborate that with archeological, geological and historical data from multiple countries and multiple sources and see where it aligned. And to my great shock, almost every single thing he said about that subject, I found evidence that suggested he was telling some version of the truth.

Alex Ferrari 8:15
That's crazy. Now, you just said something that I hadn't heard before. 28,000 BC,

Michael Le Flem 8:22
Yes.

Alex Ferrari 8:23
So my understanding was that during the last Younger Dryas is when Atlantis fell.

Michael Le Flem 8:30
It's a great question. And yeah, and then maybe I didn't mention but he notes that there are three major destructions, the first being of what would have been a much larger almost where the entire Mid Atlantic Ridge, north of South America now occupies continent sized land mass, which he claims was partially destroyed in a catastrophe around 50,000 BC. So he puts the first destruction of Atlantis around 50,000 BC, but the second destruction, which was a technologically driven destruction by misapplication of a tremendous power crystal that they were using at 28,000 and then the most famous, and really the one that people refer to as the default would be the one around 10,000 BC or 9600 BC, depending on how you look at that, I would say that destruction lasted many hundreds of years, you know. And of course, Plato was telling the truth. There was one day where it did sink and was destroyed. But as Cayce describes, he adds a much more realistic and rich texture to the story for the final destruction, at which point Atlantis, as the, you know, global seafaring culture that it was, had been reduced to three islands, which he identifies as post side, Arian and Aug and post side, of course. Is, I believe, I would argue, is really what Plato was describing when he describes the totality of Atlantis. He's really focusing on the capital city within the island of Hoside, within the remaining archipelago of the Atlantean empire in its third and final destruction. So I really wanted to, in the book explain that, because I think it was just there was so much information from so many different sources and so many different people who were getting kind of pieces, you know, pieces of this, pieces of that, pieces of that, but none of these people were really talking to each other, because the average historian won't admit clairvoyant evidence as real, even if a date is given and that data directly aligns with geological data. Or, as I tried to show I came at it as a skeptic myself, and I anticipated readers being skeptical, so I wanted to show them things that Edgar Cayce did discover that were verifiable, like, for instance, the configuration of all the geopolitical powers that would be arrayed against each other in World War Two, about a decade before the war broke out, when it was not at all clear that there would be an alliance between the countries that were later at war number two, an ancient river system that used to start at the Nile and empty into the Atlantic Ocean near the Congo. He said this existed in the 30s. Nobody, nobody took it seriously. It was just part of a life reading. Well, in 1986 shuttle imaging radar determines There is a river that's exactly where he said it would be, and many other things. You know, people used him to try to find Amelia Earhart, believe it or not, his act, her actual husband was in the room asking him, what happened to my wife. You know, Woodrow Wilson consulted with him. Even Nikola Tesla got a reading from Cayce. So he was famous in a kind of inner circle, esoteric circle, kind of way. And Atlantis, like, as I mentioned, was only, I think, 500 or so readings from a catalog of over 14,000 so he wasn't even interested in the subject. He said, personally, when he was waking he would read the transcription and say, well, that doesn't sound like what's in the Bible, but I don't know. You know that's and that's another reason I liked him, because he himself was skeptical of what he was saying. But then what other people who were experts in Egyptology or Assyrian genealogy would say, How did you know this name of this Chaldean King at this time, and he's, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just channeling the super conscious mind, the Akashic reference. I don't know anything when I'm awake. You know,

Alex Ferrari 12:52
It's fascinating. It's fascinating because when he's talking about, when he's talking about these things. He himself was like a fear God fear, a God fearing, you know, Christian man, if I'm not mistaken, correct?

Michael Le Flem 13:09
Yes, he was a Southern Baptist, I believe, yeah. And his son said, one of my favorite vignettes in the book is my favorite to write, was, it's like a movie scene, you know, from Oppenheimer, A Beautiful Mind or something. This article comes out, I think, is in the New York Times, and it says, sleeping profit cures illnesses, you know. And it was like a front page story from the 20s in the New York Times. And I had a picture of him, you know, lying on his couch in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, as a, you know, 29 year old man or something at the time. And this Harvard psychologist named Dr Hubert Munster Berg, I believe his name was. Who is this very stern German, you know, cartoonish, towering figure of psychology from Harvard, says, I'm going to get on a train. I'm going to go to this, you know, hillbilly in Kentucky's house, and I'm going to debunk him on record. And you know, this is documented in his biography. And Dr monsterberg shows up, and he looks around Cayce's little shack he was living in at the time. And he says, Okay, how do you do this? And Cayce says, You know what? Like a guy from Harvard psychology, like, what are you doing in Hopkinsville, Kentucky in the 20s? And he says, You must just be cherry picking facts from almanacs. So I'm going to look around your house. Do you mind if I look around and, you know, like, Christophe waltz from Inglorious Bastards, kind of vibe. And he looks around and he's like, Okay, I don't see anything, just the Bible, the newspaper, some romance novels in case. He says, Yeah, I don't use any of that. And he says, like, Well, how do you do it? Says, I just go to sleep. And then I. Say things, and she writes it down. And people tell me it helps them, and as a Christian, that's all I care about. And he says, so you don't know anything when you're awake, but you know everything when you're sleeping. And Cayce just stared him down and says, that's what they said. And he says this other doctor told me about you doctor Wesley Ketchum from, I think Princeton or Stan, Stanford. And he says, yeah. Dr Ketchum was the reason I got in the New York Times. He's cured 47 patients with my diagnoses, and I don't even need to see them. And he says, So you, Dr Ketchum tells you what's wrong with the people. Then you go into your trance. He says, No. And he says, Can I talk to this? Dr Ketchum? He says, Yeah, he's in a hotel down the street. And then a week later, monster Burke went back to Harvard and said, This is real. This is something we have to take seriously, because I witnessed two readings with my own eyes with another Stanford doctor, and this man is tapping into something we don't understand.

Alex Ferrari 15:58
So it's interesting too. Like, because, like, when they were asking, How do you know this? You know, these weird like Babylonian, you know, gods or kings or something, and, and it's, it's, it's before the internet. It's before Chat GPT, it's before any of this.

Michael Le Flem 16:16
Still weren't even available Alex in the public libraries of Kentucky. Well, yeah, you've gotten access to Chaldean an encyclopedia, right?

Alex Ferrari 16:24
Or, or an encyclopedia wouldn't even have had that information in a standard New World old school. That's how I'm dating myself. A new world or, or a Britannica encyclopedia wouldn't even have had something like that. So it is. It's baffling of what Edgar was able to do. It was really, really

Michael Le Flem 16:42
Truly, it's truly baffling. Yes.

Alex Ferrari 16:44
Now so you were alright, so you mentioned the the last destruction, which is the most famous, because it was the closest to us and Plato, and that's what Plato was referring to, is the the 12,000 a year ago. Yeah, unequivocally, younger, drys, younger, driest kind of time period I really have never heard too much about the fur the second one and the first one. I love to dive in, because if there was a destruction 50,000 years ago, well, then that means they had, as he claims, then there had to be a lead up to that. They didn't just like, you know, 500 years later, boom. No, there must. So that means that humanity, or a form of humanity, was going around back then. Because I know, according to even even mainstream humans, homo sapien, sapien, has been around since, what, 250,000 years or something?

Michael Le Flem 17:36
Yeah, conservatively, they would say, I think the most recent 300 right.

Alex Ferrari 17:42
Yeah, 300 400 something like that. So it took a minute to get revved up. But if Atlantis was around 50,000 years ago, well, that's the first destruction. Then how many 1000s of years before the first destruction, did it build this empire? So how much information do you have about these other versions?

Michael Le Flem 17:58
That's an amazing question. And, you know, it's why I titled the book, you know, visions of Atlantis, because, as I think I mentioned last podcast, really what these different timelines kind of represent. It's almost like, you know, if you've ever been to the eye exam and the optometrist is, you know, changing like this one and the 200,000 emergence, let's just say conservatively, you know, quarter of a million years ago, people with the same physiology as us and same brain capacity, same mental potential as us, existed conservatively a quarter of a million years ago, taking that as a departure point, the lens is very blurry. You know, the vision is not clear, and that's how I tried to structure the book. You know, as I'm not going to tell you anything definitely. I'm just going to tell you, Look, here's the only available evidence I have for say, 50,722 BC, which was the precise date Edgar Cayce gave for this destruction. And using his specific date, I looked and I said, Okay, what is his version of the origin, you know, of humanity. And it's very difficult, because, like anything, I always tell people, if you think an esoteric Emergence of Life is bizarre, is it any more bizarre than and I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying, is it any more bizarre than, you know, the protoplasmic Emergence of Life in the Darwinian model, that's equally bizarre, you know? And so when I tell people what Edgar Cayce said about how humanity originated. You know, take it with a grain of salt, but it's also it's supported by a lot of indigenous traditions around the world. And I think that's important as well, because, just like he could have had no knowledge of, you know, Chaldean Kings List, he had definitely no knowledge. Knowledge of key to people's oral traditions from the 40s and things like this that I didn't even have, you know, an easy time discovering with the powers of the internet. And so, to answer your question, you know, he places at a kind of pre 50,000 you He doesn't give a specific date for, say, the origin, but it's, it's actually close, probably to that 150 120,000 BC type time where he describes a a being called a Melius, who really was a kind of like Christ Consciousness presence, who later was embodied in the person of, say, Yeshua. But it's this kind of like light bringing androgynous being that comes or incarnates, because this is still a time case, he says, where certain beings had a kind of ethereal presence and could project themselves into materiality, to interact with the hominids that were evolving and the kind of proto humans, and all the things that we see in the fossil record. And he kind of brought this early evolution and the division of the sexes, and this kind of like standardization of the human form, which, you know, Cayce says, had gone through many alterations over the years and then from that. And he doesn't give really any definite knowledge about pre 50,000 BC. In fact, I think there's maybe, like five total readings that even discuss the third iteration, or the the original, you know, iteration. But he says, you know, the five races incarnated based on a kind of color spectrum perfection of the different qualities that each human being intrinsically has. And it was a very it's a very bizarre reading. It's very kind of like theosophical, like the root races. But it's not in a superiority ranking. It's just like each race which he you know, he calls them by colors, the black race, the brown race, the yellow race, the white race and the red race, which would be Native Americans. And he places the red race as the original Atlanteans. And it says, actually, that the Iroquois and other tribes are direct descendants of the originals. But of course, this was a, you know, enormous time span over multiple cataclysms. So you can't really claim that there was an indigenous or single origin group, you know, from which all these other branches came. Cayce said at the same time that Aemilius appeared in Atlantis, he appeared in four other places at once, because this wasn't a purely human person. This was a thought presence that could project itself into materiality. And he says all these races actually formed at the same time, and that there was no evolution from monkeys out of Africa. He actually categorically denied that, because somebody asked him that directly, um, but he says much more complicated. He says, We were intervened with. We were a project, you know, which I would argue the Old Testament talks about directly. The Sumerian records talk about it. He doesn't go into too much detail. It's a very confusing point. But he does mention that by 50,722 BC, all the mega fauna that existed at that time, the giant lizards that were four times the size of a modern Komodo dragon in the Pacific and carnivorous kangaroos and giant eagles and dire wolves in North America. And William Reina, he says the people were dealing with this, and they had reached a kind of alternate, very different than our type of technology, almost like a kind of steam punk, if you want to think of it that way, level of technology that had very different manipulation of energy and Cayce claims that at one point in trying to combat this, you know, animal menace, as he calls it. He says there were numerous global conferences where people met in these kind of zeppelins that were made from the hides of pachyderms that existed on the Atlantean continent and on the continental shelf, and that's been proven. They found elephant bones far, far out into the Atlantic Ocean. And Plato says there were elephants on Atlantis as well. And Cayce says in this first kind of, like attempt at technology, they went this kind of, like, non electrical route, almost like a steam punk kind of, they use gas to power the balloons, and it could entrain to a kind of crystal that would guide it. And at one point he says that this crystal, which he called the Death Ray, which is interesting, because that's the same name that Tesla would later call one of his. You know, alleged inventions. And Cayce says it was kind of like able to be used in the way that, you know, harp can bounce things off the ionosphere. He says it was a directed energy weapon, essentially. That wasn't exactly like a laser, but it was able to seismically affect parts of the earth. And in trying to deal with this animal menace, the World Congress 50,007 22 BC, deployed this weapon, and it had kind of catastrophic environmental impacts. It did destroy a lot of the mega fauna that were marauding the planes and, you know, certain places in the world, but it precipitated a pole shift, he claimed at the time, that was already in progress. It exacerbated it, and began the breakup of the original continent of Atlantis, which he claimed stretched as far as Cuba, all the way through the mid Atlantic, up to present day remnant, probably of the third and final iteration, which would be the sores and off the coast of Portugal. And he claims that, you know, after that, the remnant populations were able to, you know, still continue, because there was still enough of the five large islands left, but that it had fundamentally changed and begun migrations to parts of Central America and Africa. But, you know, to my great shock, when I did a search of, was there a megafauna extinction around 50,000 BC, because that's what Cayce said, they deployed a weapon to kill animals. Would you believe? And take it with the grain of salt, like everything I say that the Journal of quaternary sciences, which is a prestigious, you know, Journal of archeology and natural sciences. They said that recently, you know, six years ago, they did determine that there was an unknown mass extinction event of megafauna animals around 50,000 BC plus or minus 100 years, which, to me, is a statistical data point that they didn't say 40, they didn't say 30, you know. And things like this, Alex just started popping up again and again and again. And what I always tell people with dates is, you know, just like you know, another podcast host said, months when you're trying to convince people that are skeptical. You know about, say, JFK, everybody starts with the most arcane facts. And well, Ruth Payne, and you know, was wearing this dress on this day. And did you know about the 201, file in the CIA? And he's like, just start with this if they think the original story is correct. Why was there a bullet coming through the windshield from the front? Why was that bullet removed? Why was the wind chill removed at a crime scene? It's the same with this. I always tell people, If you believe one thing, I say, here's an irrefutable thing that you don't need. Edgar Cayce, for Plato said in the year 360 BC, when he wrote his dialogs Timaeus and critius in 360 BC, Plato placed the destruction, the final destruction, of Atlantis at 9600 BC. He said this in 360 BC, when there was no geological evidence, no idea of how the Younger Dryas took place beyond quote, unquote, legends from Egypt, and what else does he say in that dialog? He says, You have a myth of a kid called Phaeton who loses control of his father's chariot and falls to the sky and burns up everything upon it. And the priest says to so long now you think that's a myth, but every once in a while, a comet descends on Earth, destroys everything on it, and you Greeks, who don't record things in stone, have to begin again like children. That's why you're here asking the Egyptians who come from Atlantis, what the hell happened? And so what are the chances that Plato, if this is a mythological story, which he disclaims initially, it is not he says that in the character of I think his critic is telling Socrates. This is a strange story, but every word of it is true. 9000 years before my you know, great, great uncle Solon went to the temple of Nate that says there was this cataclysm, and lo and behold, what does mainstream geology do? They place that same date as the beginning of our current era after a cataclysmic flood, probably caused by a common. Possibly in the Atlantic Ocean, near where the Carolina bays is are. That's one theory. But what are the odds that Plato knew the exact date within 100 years of the end of the Ice Age in 360 BC, if he was making another Allegory of the Cave to teach, you know, virtue and all this crap that people want to put on him, you know. And I take the approach that, like Mauro Bellino and other great scholars that I refer, excuse me, that I respect tremendously, do, which is like, let's not translate the Bible into what we want. Let's just say, What were these people saying in Hebrew? Whatever the consequences of that, you know, and I just did the same thing. Let's just actually go through let's read, to the best of my ability, what did these ancient sources say? And then let's read very carefully. What did Edgar Cayce say? How can I prove that he said that, you know, let me go through the chain of custody. I'm gonna do that with all my clairvoyant sources. Because I don't just want to say that a person sat on a couch and said this. I want to say this was in the context of a person who had been absolutely verified by dozens of skeptics who had academic credentials in the respective fields he was talking about, which is not just an average source, that's a tremendous asset.

Alex Ferrari 31:31
So Michael, you were mentioning the 50,000 year ago, plus character, we'll call him a character of this embodied consciousness. Who projected himself in four, five different places around the world, something like that, and he was basically a consciousness, or I say he, but it was basically a consciousness and projected into the physical realm to interact with us. When you said that, the first thing that popped into my head was, Baba Ji. Are you familiar with you? Familiar with Babaji? Vaguely, vaguely, yeah. Yogananda, Paramahansa. Yogananda, who's on my on my show, behind my show, right there. He wrote in The Autobiography of a Yogi about Babaji, a character or a yogi who is the master of masters who trained Yeshua, who trained Bucha. He's been around for 1000s of years and is still currently alive in the Himalayas, as we speak.

Michael Le Flem 32:31
Heard about the yes now I do recall, yes,

Alex Ferrari 32:34
Yeah. And he comes and goes whenever he wants. Sometimes He incarnates for a few years. He did, I think, back in the 60s or something. And there was a moment of that a boy just showed up, and and he did a whole bunch of stuff, and then he just, he's gone, that kind of and there's pictures of him and everything. I mean, there's still, there's photos of him, but that that that just brought me to when you said that, it just brought me to it. And the reason I bring it up is because the more that I do, what I do, I mean, I'm a I'm a form of a researcher, even though I'm not writing books like you are. But I've spoken to hundreds and hundreds of people from different walks of life, and what I keep finding, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, what I keep finding is the similarities from the different walks of life. They're just there's truths that keep ringing again and again, and I keep hearing them from near death experiences, from channelers, from psychics, from quantum physicists, from mystics, from yogis, and they all seem to keep coming up. And is that what you found in your research,

Michael Le Flem 33:41
But in their origin story, you know, they talk about, in the beginning there was the word, it's like, this is a pre Christian society, you know. And where are they getting like, you know, logos and this idea of a cosmic word that can form cymatic physical matter, which is what they're describing. I mean, how the hell did they know this, you know? So I find that interesting, you know. And it's also astounding. Alex, like we think that, and I always tell people, like we are the victims, in many ways, of our own kind of medieval and I'm not, you know, trying to just trash medieval Christianity or the Catholic Church. I grew up in Catholic school, and, yeah, you know, I went to Cardinal Gibbons, but that's right, you know that. But I'm saying the political arm, and it's, it's control over a certain type of human narrative. Even atheists today, who have no, you know, religious, you know, beliefs or anything, they're still influenced by that way of thinking from that church of Rome, control of the past. And I always tell people, you know, I was reading a book, and the guy made such an interesting point. He said, You. There were people teaching kids in Greek academies 2200 years ago, about the spherical movement of the planets. And then 1000 years later, people think the world is flat, you know. And it's like this idea that we've always progressed in a teleological aggregate form of knowledge, even in recorded history, is false. You know, the pre Socratic philosophers in ancient Greece had a better understanding of the size of the Earth its relation to the solar system, you know. And we just are taught that, oh, you know, Copernicus came along one day, you know. And then Columbus came along one day, and, you know, where did Columbus get the maps? Where he already knew the continent was beyond because, as we know, the Piri Reyes map, which shows Antarctica free of ice. Where did they get that map? People don't usually remember this. Piri Reyes says in his notes that even though that map comes from the early 1500s in Istanbul, he says we captured a Spanish sailor in a war who had sailed with Columbus three times, and he had this damn map. So right there. It's like, okay, and what does period say? He says, and Columbus had been using maps that dated to the time of Alexander the Great. So you're going back now to the fourth century BC. Third century BC, they knew that Antarctica had been ice freak. They also when they sent that map in the 50s to the Naval map making team in the United States Navy, they looked at the map and they said, What who made this? And the guy said, this is from, you know, the 1500s but they think it's, you know, 1000s of years old. He says, This is impossible. This map requires aerial surveys, and in fact, the United States used the Piri Reus map to update some of their military maps. So this, again, is like what I really wanted to convey in the book. It's almost like I used Atlantis as a subject of inquiry to really, I'm not saying trick the reader, because I think it's the most comprehensive book in one that you can get on this subject from a variety of sources. But I wanted to really show the professional bias that has surrounded not just this issue, but anything involving, let's say, the unknown or mysteries that haven't been, you know, announced on the new nightly news or something like this you know.

Alex Ferrari 37:47
It's, it's fascinating. The the I agree with you 100% that humanity's journey is one of going up and down, going up and down, going up and it's cycles. It's cycles of evolution. They're cycles of growth and destruction. Growth and destruction. It's very similar to, it mirrors our own life cycle.

Michael Le Flem 38:11
And, you know, speaking of cycles, Alex, you know, I hadn't read the work of my friend now and an incredible researcher, Babu dev Misra. But two years after I published my book, he wrote his book, yuga shift, and he which I highly recommend. It's an incredible book, and I was so, you know, mad because I said, Why didn't you write this book two years before I published, because there was a chart in that book that of all the evidence I presented, I was like, this is now impossible to just disclaim discredit as a kind of fable, because in the Yuga chart, which he rectified, and he actually directly aligns With the procession of the equinox, that 24,000 roughly year cycle where the Earth passes through all the constellations. And what are the chances again, that, as he discovered, you know, the Maya, the Aztecs, the ancient Greeks, the ancient Egyptians, the Sumerians and the ancient Indians all had this knowledge that we move through ages, you know, Satya Yuga, Trita Yuga, Creta Yuga, Kali Yuga, which he claims, ends in about a month, which is great, but it's like it's about time. But think about that, that final cycle, you know, and it's book ended by two important events that he calls the Greeks called cataclysms, which was a destruction by water, and then 12,500 years later, roughly, ecurosis, which we enter in March of 2025, on his calendar, which is great, which is the destruction by fire, or the P. The cleansing by fire. But it doesn't mean literal always. It could be a process burning off waste. That's how I, you know, sleep at night when I talk to Babu, I mean, but if it does come, I'll be on the mountain with you, with Yogananda, holding hands, and we'll all just vaporize together.

Alex Ferrari 40:22
But But that's exactly I mean as of this recording. Look what happened in LA Well, I mean, I've never seen, I've never seen anything. Never seen

Michael Le Flem 40:30
Very interesting. You said that. In fact, when those were happening, I was in communication with him, and he just said, you know, it's, this is interesting. And, you know, I think, really, though, what's what people need to remember is, you know, with all these cycles, it's almost like, you know, Frederick Oliver talks about this, the kid who channeled the DWELLER on the two planets in 1886 which we don't have time to go into too much, but is one of the most extraordinary sources, I think, that I put in the book. But he says that, you know, he even said that history is like a nut on a screw, you know, that goes up and then it goes down. And we forget that. We just think it keeps going up and up and up. But if you look at the dates for the cataclysmals, well, when is it? It's exactly in that window of like 10,000 BC to 9600 BC, you know. So somehow the ancients knew whether they could verify it through geology or not, which likely they could since they had a lot of other inventions, I would argue, including crystals, flying machines, they built the pyramids, I would argue around 10,450 BC. I'll put that on record. That's what Cayce said, and I found a lot of evidence to support that. But these people were absolutely aware that nothing is forever, you know, and that these ages had to take place to bring in novelty, which was kind of the purpose of the whole human experiment, was just seeing the different ways, and that's why I think a lot of these ancient cultures talk about this, you know, the fall, the rebirth, the regeneration. It's just the natural cycle of life. And why should civilizations be any different than the people that make up the civilization? It should actually be a mirror of us, not the other way around, I think.

Alex Ferrari 42:36
And it sounds very Joseph Campbell hero's journey as well. I mean, this, like this, kind of like this, up and down, this destruction, the rebirth, the death and the rebirth, and it's just part of our it's just part of our story, our own, our own, uh, mortality is that we are born, there is a cycle, and then we die, and that cycle is varies by different people and so on. But when you brought the yugas up to my understanding, the yugas were introduced in a way, the way the Yuga cycles that, that we know as well, was introduced by the book The Holy science by Yukteshwar is the book that which is not an easy book to read.

Michael Le Flem 43:24
That's right, he talked about, you know, because he's, he can read these in, you know, his own language, and a lot of these, he said what was going on was the Yuga cycle had been through mistranslation. Like so much, it had been kind of spiritualized into fantasy, where the Kali Yuga was stretching for 400 or 500,000 years. And he discovered, through another text that hadn't been really studied a lot, that really the dates were much shorter. And then when he discovered these two bookends, the ecclerosis and the cataclysms, which adds 600 years. He compared that to the precessional cycle, or to the Greeks idea of the great year, or the Mayan great year, and these different things. And he said they're all the same, you know, they're actually all talking about the same thing, which is this universal precessional process that you know, because of the Earth's axis, it does change its position, and then things happen, you know. And the Egyptians knew this when they told Solon this story. They say history is cyclical, and every once in a while, the gods send a comet. But it's not mythical. It's real. It's a rock that falls from the sky. And, you know, just to show you how different we are from even the 19th century, idea of, say, asteroids, you know, there was like, a guy from, like, the Royal Society or something, or the Academy of like the Sorbonne and I found this, and I didn't put it in the book. But it was like from the 1860s and it was like a treatise that this extremely intelligent person wrote on this stupidity of believing that rocks fall from the sky, you know. And so you got to take all these things into consideration like we take for granted now, after we've witnessed, you know, say, the Tunguska event, you know, 120 years ago over Siberia, or we've seen, you know, modern, smaller pieces of meteorite that have been recorded for the world to see. But we take for granted that, like people did not believe in this, though, you know, when a guy, even in 1800 was reading that account, he's like, Oh, rocks really. Rocks fall from the sky. That's, you know, that's interesting. Or if you told somebody Alex in Edgar Cayce's time that there were anatomical humans 225,000 years ago, if you told an American professor of anthropology in 1940 that the human race goes back a quarter of a million years. They would call you crazy, because at that time, they still thought humans were 12 to 13,000 years old. So that's insane, it is, but that's the truth. Nobody was talking about 300,000 years BC, 100 years ago, nobody, no anthropologist, even believed such things, you know. So I always tell people, bear this in mind, that we are just barely, you know, recovering a lot of this reality absolutely scratching the surface. You know, we thought 30 years ago that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens couldn't interbreed. Well, we now know they can. So what else? Then they found a third and fourth. Dennis opens, and then this and that. And it's like Homo floresiensis, the little hobbit people. They didn't even know they existed or the job. Imagine if an indigenous person said, oh, did you know you know my, my great, great, great grandfather, 15,000 BC, was a midget, but not a dwarf. Was a literal different species of anatomically miniaturized person, and they were battling giant lizard. You'd say that's like Lord of the Rings. That's really cute. Well, what did we find in that cave in Flores? Giant lizards, mini mammoths and many people. So these stories, you know, we can't just sit there even with giants or stories of vimanas or any of these things that trigger people. It's like, let's just look at the facts. There are people alive today who are over eight feet tall. How the hell did that happen? Could there have been people that were that tall, that where there were more of them? Yes, probably. We know there were miniature people in caves and Flores that were three feet tall. So when Edgar Cayce says In the beginning, there were giant people that were 12 feet tall and there were miniature people that were three feet tall. It's like, we're not that far from 12 feet now, if you take the tallest person in the world, just go three feet more. And I know it sounds incredible, and I've heard the the blood pressure couldn't reach, but it's like, look. Let's just take what people say and have an honest look at it, whether we're triggered by it or not, you know. And I think it takes a kind of certain personality to do this work. I've always been, you know, quite skeptical of anything, even my own research. That's why I think a lot of people really like the book was, I didn't proclaim anything as absolutely true. And I actually don't like people that say this is exactly what, because you weren't there. You know, we don't know very much, believe it or not, about events that happened 30 years ago that are entirely shrouded in mystery. So for anybody to tell you, they know exactly what it was that Monday morning at noon, when the big one hit on the shores of post side, you don't know. You have no idea. You know, it was all fiction, because there actually is a very clear record that something very serious did happen. And there's a lot of evidence that Atlantis 100% was something very close to what all these people were saying.

Alex Ferrari 49:23
Let me ask you this, Michael, you know, from from my point of view, we all, as we move through life, have to believe in certain stories, and that's all they are. They're stories. Unless you've experienced it, it's a story. So all religion is a story. Yeah, all history is this story. Is a his story. It's his story. It's a history is stories. And yet, there's been bloodshed and murder and all of these things because. As they were like, No, this is my story. I have to, I've I've put that I I've attached my ego, and I've attached my understanding of why I'm here to this story. And if you challenge this story, it will rock my foundation. So now I must kill you. And that's been going on throughout the throughout humanity as we know it, over the last 10,000 years, at least, if not longer. So I find it always so fascinating that people are so willing to die, so willing to hurt others for these stories, and then in academia, it's the exact same thing. Quantum physics is still looked as as the woo woo physics, even though it's been, things have happened again and again and again, and they're starting to come around to it with Atlantis, with any historical thing you were just talking about, someone from the 1940s saying that humanity, 250,000 years ago, would say you're crazy, because they are holding on to these stories. Would you agree that? I think if we all just understand that these are beliefs that we have no proof of anything. Look. I believe in Jesus, I believe in Yeshua. I believe that there was a man who walked and created miracles. I believe there was a Bucha, you know, that walked. I believe there's a Babaji that walked. I know that there was a Yogananda who walked as he only died, you know, 50 years ago, 60 years ago, something like that in 1940 I think he died so. But there's a belief. There's no real proof in it. I can't tell you that there was a Jesus without a fact. Is that, oh, well, here's a picture of him.

Michael Le Flem 51:42
You can't prove you're talking to a human being. This could be an advanced AI, absolutely upload.

Alex Ferrari 51:48
Now we're going down the matrix world. Now we're going down the matrix world. Now we're all in a simulation, and everything is is up for grabs at that point, which is another conversation.

Michael Le Flem 51:56
Well, you know, the thing is, I think it's, it's unfortunate that, you know, the route that we could have gone. You know, I always find it ironic, as somebody who who studied philosophy and history in an academic setting, I always find it ironic that, you know, we call Plato, the founder of, you know, Western philosophy, along with Socrates and these people. But we almost not only ignored, but like rejected, all of their radical reappraisals of reality, you know, like we only like to talk about, like we really are the inheritor of like, I would say more like Aristotle, like, a very conservative kind of cataloging of events and reality and ethical systems. But if you look at Plato, for example. I mean, Plato would be at Burning Man today. Plato was an initiate of the Eleusinian mysteries, where he tripped on psychedelic ergot beer and then came out and created these absolutely brilliant allegories, like the allegory of the cave, which the writer of The Matrix directly cites as the direct influence for the movie. And how many people use the matrix without even realizing there's platonic that's a platonic idea that goes back, oh, 2400 years, that this guy knew this, that we live in this weird, you know, fake reality, where we only see shadows on the wall, and if you knew the truth, they would blind you. And if you came back to the cave and told the people the truth, they would call you crazy. And it's like, that's that, if anything he said was true, I think particularly today, think about how many times Alex, in your life, you've tried to explain to people you know that aren't familiar with your work, what you do, and their reactions is like, what? Yeah, okay, buddy. And you're like, No, look, you're still chained in the cave. There's, there's other, there's other things that Sure, buddy, yeah, okay, there's, you mean, there's a, there's a place outside of the cave, yeah, right, you know. And I'm not even saying like, I never want to presume, you know, I know, like a philosopher kill Oh, I I'm sitting at the top of the mountain like Zarin. Let me tell you what, what to think. No, quite the contrary, this book for me, was just as much of a journey that I did for myself. It was an intellectual exercise, just like I, you know, sit here and, you know, struggle with my, you know, Phrygian scales and whatnot on the guitar. I did the same thing with the book. It was like I went through the scales of history, so to speak, and I looked at every combination permutation, using Atlantis as the focal point of my, you know, deep, really, critique of everything I was taught about this time period. And to my great shock, the evidence that I discovered was overwhelmingly in support. Report that there was something that was completely destroyed that only left us few mega lists around the world, few language commonalities, but an abundance of ancient myths, hundreds around the world, from India, from the Mahabharata, from Plato, from other sources, and then this emergence of this geological record that's now aligning, and then this emergence of this Yuga phenomenon that people are now becoming aware of. And I think, as Edgar Cayce said famously in an interview, he says, You know, I think one day the the awareness of people towards what I do you know, is slowly changing. He said that in the 1930s I think people are slowly changing in their acceptance of psychic phenomenon, you know. And I think they are with shows like this, and, you know, just the kind of zeitgeist of the time. I think we can all say, regardless of what our political views are, that we're all changing, you know, what? Wouldn't whatever walk of life you're in tell me that it's not dramatically changed in the last, you know, even five years. So I think it's the time to, you know, reinvestigate a lot of these things that we've always just kind of put off. Oh Atlantis, oh extraterrestrials, oh government retrieval programs. Oh, you know, you've been watching too many unsolved mysteries, you know? Well, no, like the Pentagon says, yeah, by the way, we've lied to you for 90 years. We did recover a thing in magenta Italy. But, you know that was, that was in 1933 so we've been lying to you for 90 years. And yes, we talked to the intergalactic Federation. That's the Israeli space minister said, but you know, you don't have to really worry about that. And it's like,

Alex Ferrari 56:53
Go back on Facebook, go back on Instagram. Like, go back on Instagram, yeah.

Michael Le Flem 56:59
I mean, so I always tell people, like, there will never be. When people ask, like, you know, you know, when is the moment that you know the world? It's like this one. This is the problem. I think it's like the official spokespeople from the United States Government have said, we have recovered alien spaceships and been reworking them and engineering them in secret locations, just like quote, unquote crazy people have known for 60 years. And like, the world didn't stop. People still went to, you know, Little Caesars to get their uh, pizza. So it's like the same with when they find the Hall of Records, you know, and vindicate Edgar Cayce. And, you know, there's a whole, you know, display of, you know, artifacts made of Oracalcum with the history of Atlantis. And it's, you know, we're able to decipher it. It'll be the same thing, like, I'll care, you know, but my neighbors will still go to Little Caesars and get the pizza. So it's like, we need to stop needing and seeking the approval of, like, this moment, you know, when will, yes, you will return. You know, it's like, well, you don't need him to return. You could just live by his precepts and be a good person. I think he would tell you the same thing, don't worry about what I'm coming back. Focus on what you're doing right now. And so that's what I tried to do, is just not deliver some sort of like smoking gun, which really bothered me with a lot of other approaches to this type of work, is, you know, there is no smoking gun with anything. There's just a preponderance of evidence. And like in a criminal court, you weren't there at the murder, I wasn't there, but you still get accused of the crime if there's a preponderance of evidence. And so when people say was Atlantis real? Well, yeah, there's a preponderance of evidence that some thing did happen. And if you want to know more, you know 50 pages and find out.

Alex Ferrari 59:12
I wanted to ask you about Lemuria. What did you discover about Lemuria in the times of Atlanta? Because that's the other doesn't have as good of a PR firm as Atlantis does.

Michael Le Flem 59:26
Funny you say that because I was just reading a book on that subject recently, and I thought it's really funny. You said because I said, you know, whoever's representing them, I swear to God, I said that in my head, whoever's representing the Maria like they need to get signed with CAA or something. But I think you know, from what I've gathered, Edgar Cayce does talk about Mu. He does talk about Lemuria. Sometimes he mentions it. Sometimes he calls it Mu more often. And. He does, at one point, describe, kind of like the contours of the Pacific as it would have existed before that 50,000 BC cataclysm which destroyed Atlantis, which he would say in a couple other channelers, like Ruth Montgomery, was another famous clairvoyant from the 70s, and she talked a little bit about the destruction of Lemuria, which she places concurrent with the breakup around 50,000 bc of the Atlantean continent that the weapon deployed destroyed Lemuria in the process, through flooding. And it would have been a large land mass that, you know, would have stretched really throughout, like the majority of Australia, past New Zealand, up to Hawaii, parts of Easter Island. Some people think I didn't do very much research, because there just simply is very little, and you have to go really into the kind of the dream time aspect of the indigenous people, the Aboriginal people who, you know, they again an interesting day. They can trace their culture back over 60,000 years. You know, if you ask an indigenous Australian today, some of them say we go back at least 60,000 BC, and they're telling you that now alive in their old traditions. So again, I think these dates as fantastical as they sound, because we're accustomed to this narrative that history began, you know, 5000 years ago, but for 195,000 years before that, we were just, you know, sitting around the campfire, you know, twirling our thumbs. That's absurd to me, and I think that's another big mental block. Is people don't know that the human race, people think that 15,000 years ago, everybody was a cave person, not that they were making 3d beautiful art, 45,000 years ago in caves in Lascaux. It's like the people that made those drawings and paintings were not primitive people by any stretch of the imagination, you know, and yet they made this beautiful art at a time where we're led to believe, you know, they were they were primitive and so, again, I think we just have to get over the lack of concrete evidence, particularly For Lemuria, which many channelers describe as an even older root civilization that even in Atlantis, Cayce would say they would look to Lemuria as a even older civilization than you know where they came from. But again, I don't know, Cayce didn't say very much about it. You just talked about the continent of moo a lot, and that it was tied to that concurrent destruction

Alex Ferrari 1:03:06
You were you were mentioning that in a month or so we're going to be having this cycle is supposed to be ending. One of the units is supposed to be ending. That's what Babu says. That's what Babu says. What exactly we don't want to, yeah, and even, but even if, the if the cycle is ending, it doesn't mean that the whole world's gonna burn or anything like,

Michael Le Flem 1:03:28
No, it just always says that, like with anything, you know, we're look, I it's really hard to deny these dates, because it's not just the yoga cycle. It's like, if you look at just, look at the political cycle. Look at financial market cycles. You know, they're all intrinsically tied to this kind of, like micro, macro, weird type of process. And you know, if you look at, for example, his date where, you know, let's just say the hard cutoff would be March 2025, for the official, quote, unquote, end of the Kali Yuga and the beginning of the 300 year ecparosis transition period. Or, I'm sorry, 1200 years, I think it is up until the next cycle. Well, if you look at this, I mean, in the last, say, 100 years, you know how much is changing right now compared to how much has changed in the last even 50 years? I mean, it's like we have condensed so much change on every level into just the last two years that the idea that there isn't a massive transition that this ancient processional chart directly predicted is almost impossible, like you're almost being disingenuous if you say that's not an accurate it's like the most controversial, biggest election in US history was probably the last year, you know, and it's like the inauguration of the most controversial president in my lifetime. And the most change in the government, whether you like it or not, is concurrent with the end of this cycle. And what is the cycle about? It's the Kali Yuga. It's the i It's the age of deception, deceit, corruption, ignorance, blindness. It's the by seeing age that you know, Yeshua came to to enlighten people and all these other, you know, great figures like Buddha and all these other people, and yet we're entering this kind of period where there's a clearing up, there's a burning off of all the false belief systems, and a kind of influx, I guess you would say, of information or solutions to these very difficult problems that have been holding us back throughout these, you know, 1000s of years, we've been stuck in this cycle.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:49
So, so this next cycle, this next 1200 years, I'm curious about what your take is on. It is a cycle of, kind of deconstruction of the old systems which I've heard again. I've heard this so many times from different channelers and psychics and mediums and every and also mystics and stuff. This is in also historians who have said the same thing. This is a time of deconstruction of old systems, and we can see it. We can see it all around us, all of the systems that we held up as rock solid. Yeah, you and I are of similar vintage. Both. We both. I always use the Vatican as an example. The Vatican was the Catholic Church was infallible. We know now it's not. The government was infallible. And then Richard Nixon showed up, and everyone goes, oh, right, what happened, you know? And then the pharmaceutical industry, then the healthcare industry, the media Hollywood, the Hollywood and the media Hollywood is, is being broken down, being disintegrated, yeah, it seems like it's, it's like you just said, it's a clearing of what, of what doesn't work for us anymore, and then all this new information, this new enlightenment, this new consciousness, is coming up. Is that what is being said in these, in these this was supposed to be happening in this next cycle?

Michael Le Flem 1:07:18
Yeah. And I also found that from, you know, not just the processional cycle, but but so many of these indigenous traditions, the Hopi, you know, allude to it. And, you know, so many of these people were writing 1000s of years ago about this moment that we're all living through, you know. And I can't help but think that that's why there's been this kind of resurgence and interest in topics like Atlantis or the Younger Dryas, whereas when I was growing up on Atlantic Boulevard, by the way, going to Florida, Atlantic University, swimming in the Atlantic Ocean, I didn't think anything of it. In fact, people think I'm making this up, Alex. But if you asked me 10 years ago, when I was a professor, you know, at Loyola. What do I think about Atlantis? I wouldn't, I wouldn't have, and I would just say, well, that's, I think Plato talked about what, you know, because I just, I hadn't done the the work. And, you know, it's the weirdest thing, like, I don't know if it was a download or some sort of, whatever you want to call metaphysical experience. But I'll never forget, and I've really never shared this one day just sitting in Wicker Park like any other day, watching a bunch of you know, girls sun tanning, people playing volleyball, and just normal summer day in Chicago, where I lived at the time, and like this bizarre interest, almost like a hypnotic suggestion, started like coming into me to investigate the topic of it. I swear not making this up, and I really never shared this on a podcast, so, but I went to the bookstore and, like, almost as if I was, like, MK, ultra hypnotically suggested, you know, press the trigger. You know, in the kitchen. Sirhan, I went there and I read every single book in myopic books on the subject in a span of about two months. I just kept going back, going back, going back. And then this led to hundreds of books and articles and the Edgar Cayce archives, and I spent eight years on this obsessive question. It used to scare me, because I used to tell my friends that I stopped all research and writing for like two years. Because anytime I would look at the document, you know, visions of Atlantis, which was many different names on my desktop, it would freak me out, because I was like, What is this? You know, what is this? 300 Page notebook you have of channelings and Edgar Cayce notes and weird maps that you found. I didn't know what was going on with me, and so I almost, like, wrote the book as, like an exorcism, like, I have to at least get this on paper. And, you know, maybe, maybe five people on earth will buy it and like it. It's in my great shock, you know, 1000s of people have read this book now in the last couple years, and not just confirmed that, you know, they enjoyed it and they enjoyed the approach, but like, brought new information from, you know, like you do with all these, you know, ancient wisdom traditions that you know. And it's like, every week I get an email from somebody, did you know that? You know this happened to Frederick Oliver? Did you know that the Azores, if you want to go there, we can go scuba diving. And I'm like, that's the key you know is this is a history is a group effort, you know. And anytime you see anybody that that's talking down to you on any show of any credentials about this person knows this, and that person knows that, and this person's an idiot, and I know how to speak Chaldean, and this, it's the authoritative version. I always say, hey, what was it like there, bro, what was it like in Caldea? Oh, right. You, you know, grew up in, you know, Miami, like, like we did. What are you talking about? You know, the truth, you know, right? We don't even know, really, what happened at the end of World War Two, with about 15 different routes I could go for that one, you know, and that's in contemporary history, with video recordings, millions of people involved, people still alive, that were there, and yet, you're gonna tell me you know exactly, you know, when that last capstone was put on the pyramid, and what the guy was wearing when he did it? No, I would say, look, the best we can do is look at the totality of this question and try to take from as many sources as we can and really just change the way we think you know about the past. And that was my goal with the book. Was just to show people a different way of looking at ancient history that was fun, you know, because I thought that was a big problem with a lot of these people are boring as hell. And if you can't sell the idea, you know, like Aristotle said, You got to have ethos, pathos and logos. You got you can't just have a good argument if you're boring or you're not funny, and so my favorite authors always were able to captivate you, you know, and make every page a page turner. And so I really spent a lot of time not just on the research, but on the stylistic engagement with the readers. And so that was a huge, I think benefit to to even hook more people, because they got excited, like, Well, wait a minute, what? You know, there's a crystal. You know? What was this? This is that sounds like a Death Star. What is this thing I want to, you know, because I'm not going to just tell you, hey, there was a crystal in the I'm going to actually explain the science of it with the NASA physicist who studied that Edgar Cayce reading, and said, This is a real possible thing. I study astrophysics. I'm an employed PhD from NASA, and I'm looking at this Cayce reading, and he's describing a functioning machine. And you're going to see how things that might seem incredible are actually feasible, but that we have to have an open mind.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:46
So Michael, the big question I have to ask you, man is, where is Atlantis? Man, where can we find it? Is there any remnants? Is like? Is there a place I can go scuba dive and see the remnants of it? They just discovered an undersea city in India that they thought that was myth, and it was right off the coast, and they found it's like,

Michael Le Flem 1:14:06
Funny how that works, isn't it?

Alex Ferrari 1:14:08
It's super funny how that works. And there was,

Michael Le Flem 1:14:13
Isn't it funny how, like, the people that built civilization, you know, that we inherited, uh, were right about everything, I always find that incredibly arrogant, like, you know, when Heinrich Schliemann discovered Troy in the 19th century, and people were like, Oh, you're, you're getting funding to go on an expedition to find the lost city of Troy from, you know, Greek legend, yeah. And then he goes, there, finds that damn tomb, and it says, Priam. And it's like, huh, wow, that's interesting. You mean the people that built civilization and invented philosophy, and you know, we're actually telling the truth this place called Troy. So. So, you know, to answer your question, I would say, you know, if you go to the third destruction, which is the most contemporary, which probably, you know, took place around 10,000 to 9600 BC, and you go to these three islands, post side Arian OG, you know, I would place them, and I talk about this in the book. I've always stuck with those three where, where the Azores are today. I've always said that. And you know, even the word asaurus, nobody has any idea where that etymology comes from. People think, oh, it's Portuguese. It means a hawk, but it really doesn't have a meaning. But it's interesting because Azaz, there's a first time I've mentioned this on a show. Azaz was an Atlantean King mentioned in the Timaeus. And it's interesting because there are other characters in that story who have place names near Gibraltar, like Goddess who's a character from that Atlantis story. And we have to pay attention that not everything stays the same. So goddess later, over 1000s of years, was a Phoenix. The oldest city in Europe is now modern day Cadiz, Spain. So the word Cadiz comes from goddess, which Plato claims was a character in the Atlantis story. And so when you see these things, you know, I look at the mid atlantic Ridge, where the Azores are today, as the absolute final site of the third remnant destruction of Atlantis. And you know, when people say, Well, what similarity does that have to the evidence? I would say, well, it's directly outside the Pillars of Hercules where Plato placed Atlantis. It's also got a namesake, prominent lante and King. It's also and I've spoken to the man diopliciano Silva, who discovered the enormous pyramid at the bottom of the island of Terceira when he was uh, fishing on his depth finder. And I have a picture of that depth finder reading in my book. He was gracious enough to um Grammy an interview, even through a Portuguese translator, and he says, I found an actual pyramid at the bottom of the Ocean off the coast of the island of tercera in the Azores. And, you know, it's a volcanic island range. Atlantis was a volcanic island range. It has hot and cold springs that it's famous for, Plato says that region had hot and cold springs where Poseidon lived. I mean, why is it strange to think that the enormous you know, as I said, go to Michael the phlegm.com and look at the top left image on my website, which is a famous map of the Atlantic Ocean drained. And I think people don't know this, that the one of the largest mountain ranges in the world is under the Atlantic Ocean, and it splits it in half. And so when people say, You mean to tell me there was a continent in the middle of it's like, well, first of all, have you ever seen the Atlantic Ocean drained. It's not flat on the bottom. There's an enormous mountain range called the Mid Atlantic ridge. And I'll end on this. Don't take my word for it. Take the words of the people from 1877 from the Challenger expedition, from England, some of those prestigious oceanographers in the world, Alex, when they discovered the Mid Atlantic ridge in 1877 over two, three year voyage, the first thing they did when they came back to announce their discovery was they released an article in Scientific American that I found. And do you know what they called it? What they call it, glimpses of Atlantis. And in the article, these prestigious oceanographers, who were professors, said it now appears in light of discovering an enormous mountain range outside of the Pillars of Hercules. That this story that so long heard from the Egyptians, that we heard from Plato, this is their words, is now actually coming true, and it's likely that as the old America was rising, the old or as the New America was rising, the old Atlantis was sinking because they still believed in the catastrophic model of climate change at that time of catastrophism, it wasn't taboo to imagine catastrophism at that point. So again, don't take my word for it. Take the word of the people who discovered the Mid Atlantic ridge and published in Scientific American an article saying we probably found what Plato was talking about.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:10
So as you said, the New America was rising and Atlantis was falling. Is there going to be a moment in the next 500 years to 1000 years, or 2000 years where that is gonna go back up.

Michael Le Flem 1:20:23
This is the year for that one.

Alex Ferrari 1:20:25
I won't either. I won't either. But the thing is, and this is what I always I've heard from so many people, is, and you just look at history, no Empire lasts forever.

Michael Le Flem 1:20:35
No and no, nobody lasts forever. I mean, I always tell people nothing, left. We know for a fact. Consider this, if you went back to 11,000 BC, North America, if I put you in, let's say Utah, do you know what you would be witnessing in Utah and Inland Sea, where Lake Bonneville is now in that region. Okay, by the way, I see that Edgar Cayce and Frederick Oliver both describe. How could they have known that? The other thing is, half of North America 12,000 years ago was basically covered up to like Dayton, Ohio, in a nice multi kilometer ice sheet. And there were wooly rhinoceros is running around the tundras where Chicago is today. I mean, I don't think people have any idea how much has already changed. And, you know, just think about, um, what that could be. You know, I think it's absolutely possible that, you know, look at the eruption in, I think, 1902 in Martinique, where 30,000 people were just erased by a volcanic eruption on the island of Martinique. Who's to say that, if there were not super volcanic reactions over multiple portions of the world, as many of these ancient sources suggest there were, that you couldn't have entire places wiped out. You know, it's absolutely possible, and I don't think we should discount that, especially when there's a enormous mountain range in the middle of the what Atlantic unknown etymology, first mentioned by Herodotus as the Atlantis sea in like 432, BC. Again, not a Greek word, and a word found here in Mexico from the Aztec people from Atlan curious, the island to the east. Interesting, amazing, build pyramids, interesting? Yes, I think it's all much more, you know, actually realistic. And I think I'll end on that is that quite to the contrary, just like it never shocked me that the government was re engineering extraterrestrial craft that they had recovered. I've known about this for I mean, I've known as much as anybody who's ever seen one in you know, the flesh as Can, can know, but I've known from the evidence that that's obviously happening. I didn't need CNN to announce that it's the same with this. Something went down 12,000 years ago. That's undeniable. We know this. There's too many flood myths, too much geological evidence. What it was we may never know. But I wanted to, as an intellectual exercise, exhaust every angle until I could piece together some version of what I think happened in the Atlantis story. And I think in that sense, I did succeed. Because, you know, the response I've gotten from people is, wow, I really appreciate your open minded approach. And I appreciate not being told what to think you know. And I think they like the chapter where I go to war with the debunkers, which is a brutal they had it coming. You wanted this.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:16
I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests, sir, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Michael Le Flem 1:24:23
I think it's doing what you enjoy as much as you can. I think it's that simple.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:29
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Michael, what advice would you give him?

Michael Le Flem 1:24:32
Well, little Michael was out of control. I'd probably slap him in the face. But I always say, don't change a thing. Michael, don't change a thing.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:41
How do you define God or Source?

Michael Le Flem 1:24:43
Just as that you know some sort of ineffable, I guess, unity consciousness that many people have, many versions of, that will probably never know in this reality. I think that's I. Really, all I can say about that,

Alex Ferrari 1:25:01
What is love?

Michael Le Flem 1:25:02
It's the thing that thing, many people know it. But I think once you start to, once you start to define that one, it becomes, I think, something very different than love. Once a label is put on. But I think everybody knows what that is, but I won't go anywhere.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:27
If you, if you could ask God or source one question, what would it be?

Michael Le Flem 1:25:30
I would never, I would never deign to address that source. No, I mean, I, I, I don't. I think, if that were possible, I think it would terrify me, because I would have to know that that would be true. And I think the idea of knowing something absolutely is is not why we're here on Earth.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:00
Beautiful answer. And again. And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Michael Le Flem 1:26:05
Well, it's the meaning of life. Is the meaning of life? It's whatever meaning you impart on this experiment or experience, whatever you want to call it. I think there are many people with many meanings of life. And like you said, you know earlier, that's really what defines us as a species, is that we are a storytelling species of whatever we are, and we all have competing meanings. I don't think there is one meaning. I think that's quite dangerous way to live,

Alex Ferrari 1:26:42
And where can people find out about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world, sir?

Michael Le Flem 1:26:46
If you're in Monterrey, Mexico, and you're at the Urban Food Mart on the 25th of January, I don't know when this airs, but we'll be playing this now. I'm joking, but I will be playing little guitar that night. But they can find me at Michael Le Flem, just my name one word. Michael Le Flem, L, E, F, L, E, M, .com, which is my author page, and there's a contact form there, and I respond to everybody that reaches out to me, even if you know, like some people tell me, you know, Atlantis is in Dayton, Ohio, and I have the map, I'll still engage and reach your map. Believe it or not, I take the craziest calls, and you'll call this number Now Michael and I'll tell you a secret that my wisdom teacher told me that you know Atlantis hotline, where you can drop clues and tips. But yeah, and then I'm also, I think it will be out, probably by early March. I started a podcast with a great colleague of mine, an author from Poland, Alexander cheskevid, you wrote a really cool book called deja vu, which I recommend if you're interested in my book. And we're both kind of CO hosting a show about the search for questions around things like Atlantis and ancient history and kind of unknown mysteries. So that should be out, and I'll have a link to that on my website probably in a couple weeks.

Alex Ferrari 1:28:24
And do you have any parting messages for the audience, sir?

Michael Le Flem 1:28:26
Just chill out. I think everybody needs to chill out as we go through the process. I think everybody's a little too on edge, to be honest, lately. So you know, whatever you gotta do, you know, you get a get a guitar, get a piano, whatever it is. Just, I think everybody needs to relax, and we'd all be a lot better. And, yeah, that's my part. My parting wisdom is just chill. Everybody chill. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:28:55
Michael, it's a pleasure talking to you, man, such such a fun conversation. I can't wait for the day that you make it over to Austin, and so we could do an in person interview, and really even go deeper down a rabbit hole. Yeah, in this, in this stuff, man, it's an endless, endless, endless rabbit hole, my friend. So I appreciate you, and I appreciate you fighting the good fight, getting this stuff out there for the world to

Michael Le Flem 1:29:18
Well, I do it for South Florida like you. Because when you come from South Florida, you you live by the 954, you die by that. So I stand with my South Floridian brother until death but

Alex Ferrari 1:29:31
A one A, baby, a, one A, one A, one A,

Michael Le Flem 1:29:37
Till the day I die, I will never call a one A, anything else but a one, a, and I still have my 954, area code. Thank you very much on my phone. But that's a different podcast. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:29:51
We'll call it the A, one, A's

Michael Le Flem 1:29:54
No. Thank you so much, Alex. And you know, congratulations again on being able to. So I watch your show all the time, and you know, you always have the most fascinating guests, and I think that's a really big part of this is seeing different perspectives, you know, and choosing ones that resonate with you instead of what you're told to think. I think that's the key to this next phase that we're entering, is empowerment and individuality as opposed to a kind of towering conformity that we've been subjected to by so many of those things you talked about. So congratulations. I think this is a great vehicle for that pursuit.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:36
My friend. I appreciate you, brother, till the next time.

Michael Le Flem 1:30:39
Absolutely.