Stephen Chong, M.Ed., is a highly respected Personal Development Coach, Speaker, and Author who has been helping people achieve their goals for over three decades. He has earned a reputation as a gifted storyteller and a keen observer of modern life whose insights help his clients to realize their highest potential.
Throughout his career, Stephen has focused on teaching people the essential skills of envisioning and goal-setting, which bring out the best in executives, managers, and staff in the modern workplace. His expertise in this area has been demonstrated in the many coaching and training programs he has developed and delivered.
One of Stephen’s core areas of expertise is leadership development. He understands that effective leadership is critical to the success of any organization, and he has developed a range of programs to help leaders enhance their skills. These programs focus on developing the self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and communication skills needed to inspire and motivate teams.
Another key area of Stephen’s expertise is effective communication. He understands that communication is the foundation of all successful relationships, and his programs help people to develop the skills needed to communicate effectively with colleagues, clients, and loved ones. These programs cover a range of communication styles, including assertive communication, active listening, and conflict resolution.
Stephen is also passionate about helping people to step out of their comfort zones and reach their full potential. His program on “Living on the Edge of Your Comfort Zone” helps people to break free from their self-imposed limitations and take bold steps toward their goals. By providing guidance and motivation, Stephen helps his clients to achieve things they never thought possible.
Another key area of Stephen’s expertise is team development. He understands that teams are the backbone of any organization, and his programs help teams to work together more effectively. By developing strong interpersonal relationships, effective communication, and a shared sense of purpose, Stephen’s programs help teams to overcome obstacles and achieve their goals.
Finally, Stephen is a specialist in overcoming obstacles. He understands that life is full of challenges, and his programs help people to develop the resilience and mental toughness needed to overcome them. Whether it’s dealing with a difficult boss, navigating a personal crisis, or achieving a difficult goal, Stephen’s programs provide practical strategies and tools to help people succeed.
In addition to his work as a coach and trainer, Stephen is also an accomplished author. His books, including “The Power of Envisioning: A Practical Guide to Setting and Achieving Your Goals” and “Living on the Edge of Your Comfort Zone: The Key to Achieving Your Full Potential,” have helped countless people to achieve their goals.
Stephen’s book, Bodies of Consequence, unfolds humankind’s greatest mystery … ‘What happens to us after we die?’
This is the story of Matthew J. Cooper, a World War II veteran, and skilled sniper, and his cherished grandson, Michael. As Matthew ascends to the afterlife, he must confront the consequences of his life’s actions and seek guidance from his grandson, who follows in his military footsteps.
In “Bodies of Consequence,” readers are taken on a one-of-a-kind journey that delves into the afterlife. The book explores the consequences of life in the hereafter through the intertwined experiences of three generations of a family.
As the veil of light parts, Matthew is summoned to face his casualties, his “Bodies of Consequence.” He must confront them and bring them to light, including those of his grandson Michael. The ex-sniper in heaven makes it his mission to save Michael from his own “Bodies of Consequence” and guide him towards a better path.
Dr. Chong, M.Ed., is a highly respected Personal Development Coach, Speaker, and Author who has dedicated his career to helping people achieve their goals. His expertise in leadership development, effective communication, team development, stepping out of comfort zones, and overcoming obstacles, combined with his gift for storytelling, make him a valuable resource for anyone seeking to realize their highest potential.
Please enjoy my conversation with Stephen Chong.
Listen to more great episodes at Next Level Soul Podcast
Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 201
Stephen Chong 0:00
What I saw, were these huge vortices, vortices of power in which these souls were entrapped. And standing around these vortices of power were these angelic beings. And the way it was described to me, and what I saw was these souls are trapped by choice, it's not judgment.
Alex Ferrari 0:44
I'd like to welcome to the show, Stephen Chong. How you doing Stephen?
Stephen Chong 0:47
Very well, thank you, Alex. And thank you for having me on the program.
Alex Ferrari 0:50
Thank you so much for waking up early. I know you're on the other side of the world today, I truly, truly appreciate you waking up, you have some coffee. So hopefully, you won't doze off in the middle of the interview. So I appreciate that. Thank you. So thank you for coming on the show and sharing your story your your near death experience and what happened to you on the other side. And my first question to you is, what was life like prior to your near death experience?
Stephen Chong 1:16
Okay! Alex, it's, it's very distinct, because life has become more vivid, by virtue of what I've learned through the experience. Things that are not important get dropped away. And it's like, it's, it's almost hard to describe the music and the colors of life become more intense. So, and it's like you, you get pushed and redirected to what you meant to be doing, you know, to fulfill your purpose, that become the ultimate part of the experience, I believe.
Alex Ferrari 1:54
No, so were you a religious man prior to your near death?
Stephen Chong 1:57
Now, you could call me spiritual if you like, but no, no, it is. There is no religion in me no, that I know of.
Alex Ferrari 2:06
Right. So you essentially, were living a fairly normal everyday life prior to your near death experience?
Stephen Chong 2:13
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And like, any good 60 year old, I did something stupid and fell off the roof.
Alex Ferrari 2:20
As our ego Listen, our mind thinks for 20. But our body quickly reminds us that we're not to be sure. I mean, for people listening and who are younger than both you and I, you know, sometimes I've like, oh, yeah, I could run over there and walk or I could jump over that and, and then all of a sudden, the knees start to ache for some reason. And the ankles are like, what? Remember what happened when you were 22. And you were playing football and your ankle got tore it up there that it's back. The mind is always younger than the body for whatever reason. Absolutely. So what happened? So tell me what happened?
Stephen Chong 2:59
Well, what happened I was I was up cleaning as you do your cleaning out the gutters. And it was a Saturday morning. And normally my wife is absent, going shopping or doing things. And the latest flip. And if you can see behind me I have these louvered windows. So the ladder went through all of these louvers by the glass everywhere. And I'm in about five meters off the ground here. So I'm in a screaming heap, calling up my wife's name. And I couldn't feel anything I couldn't feel my body really hard ohh ohh I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble. But purely standard. You know, the the paramedics came and, and, you know, thanks to the gods were there on the day. Okay, but things work. Nothing. I fractured my neck. But yeah, through the course of rehabilitation was one as well. So,
Alex Ferrari 4:02
So what so when did you have your near death experience?
Stephen Chong 4:06
What happened that Alex, the experience came consequence consequential of the accident. So during rehabilitation, the head this the title of the book going through my head, and just to backtrack, I'd shut down on me and I've written five books and screenplays and things so I'd shut down and said I'm not doing any more. But this title was, was pounding in my head. You know, whilst lying on the couch in this rehabilitation, and eventually I've given it I said, Okay, to the universe if you want me to write this thing, you know, I had no idea I don't know you want me to write about the afterlife? What? Why not? I'm not there yet. But I bought in the process and said, Okay, do you want me to write it? No, I mean, and from that point, it was like being that was the term but given a superpower. As soon as I sat down to write, again, prior, I had no storyline, no characters, no nothing. It was like, was there it was, it was a cascade. I sat down to write not by, by saw these things, he heard the music and saw the colors. And it was like, taking dictation, you know, all I had to do was kind of interpret what I saw. And therein lies the majesty of the experience. Because I say previously, I'd shut down and I'm not doing anymore, but it was there waiting for me, which was the greatest gift.
Alex Ferrari 5:53
So then what was it? So tell us the story of the other side?
Stephen Chong 5:57
Oh, my goodness, where do I start? That was a first person narrative. So I'm seeing through the eyes of this character in heaven. And the character himself in life was a young man who was abused under the auspices of the clergy. And he was stuck in this purgatory by virtue of the guilt and the shame and the anger that he felt he was stuck there. And this is what I'm seeing. He's, he's, he's there and doesn't know how to get out. And the story evolves, with the Bishop of the sea, who's passed, under whose insouciance this young man was abused, they come together in relationships, and by virtue of the forgiveness that are, they're able to show one another, they then move through the different levels of him. So they will, through his previous characters eyes, he was taken through the different levels of heaven, but I'm seeing and trying to interpret to the best of my abilities, what this character was experiencing.
Alex Ferrari 7:14
So what so let's go for the ride where what happened?
Stephen Chong 7:19
Well, my goodness, where do I start? Let me give you an the first experience that come to go on is the healing arena. This character, these name is afar, he was taken to this, if you can imagine a huge Coliseum. And in an in the like the in the audience is always beautiful souls, Cutler's and music and they're all chanting the sound so there's always beautiful spirit around and in the middle of this arena, where these lounge shares recliner chairs. And so I'm just seeing this and then writing in in to the erotic escolher bodies sarafan beautiful little angels were these. This is this equipment soles. And they were put on these lounge chairs. And then in walked with this angelic beings best to describe it. And then he he started to manipulate the energy and in like in a magnetic ball, and from the magnetic ball shot down this, these streams of light into these souls that were reclined on the, on the couches. From there, you know, once he finished his his work, he these souls were totally renewed. So, you know, whatever was the ailments were before they were totally renewed. But the interesting thing about that Alex was what I what I learned afterwards, was souls that have caused injury by others on Earth do not bear the consequences of those actions. So they are relieved that those burdens are caused by others, if that makes sense, not what they did to themselves or not what they know if I were fired, you know, a bad thing to you. You would not you might be suffering under the weight of that, that action, but you do not suffer the consequences of that actually relieved that those burdens. And that was what that magnetic curl was, I understand was all about it again. Whether you believe it or not you is, I don't know, but that's what I saw. And that's what I interpreted.
Alex Ferrari 10:04
So let me let me ask you so so you didn't have an actual near death experience in the way that is traditional?
Stephen Chong 10:10
I wouldn't call it traditional No, but it was certainly a, I guess you'd call it a spiritually awakening experience. No doubt about that.
Alex Ferrari 10:17
Okay, so then, so when you when you were told about this, this, this book idea, it started to come in you were almost channeling this stuff. You got it, you got glimpses into the other side, at least.
Stephen Chong 10:31
Yes. I don't. Like see, the term channeling doesn't sit well with me. Sure. Fair enough. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm just a regular dude, you know, not I'm not a medium or anything like that. But I cannot deny what I experienced in it, because it was real. And it was a gift. And I just had to write what I saw.
Alex Ferrari 10:56
Was, let me ask you then did at any point in this experience that someone explained to you or anything explained to you why you were the one chosen for this?
Stephen Chong 11:07
You know, I cannot say that. No, I don't know. No. But I gotta tell you, what was it what's interesting, probably three or four months after writing the book, and you know, you do all the editing and read it 100 times. I'm missing something here. And it was like a revelation. And if so, read through the book, again, probably for the 100th time. But what I now understand, is not just a story in the description of what heaven is, like. It describes inherent in the text, or laws of heaven and earth, laws under underpin. Hell, the experiences happen in heaven and consequential interactions on Earth. And I've written out, I found 14 or 15 I go far.
Alex Ferrari 12:05
So what are some of these somewhere? So what are these some what are some?
Stephen Chong 12:09
Let me give you a couple, let me read you one or two is one, what you have cause to effect in your fellow man is what declares your place in heaven? Let me give you another one. Judgment of Heaven is neither vindictive or eternal, but probationary and remedial. Takes a while to wrap your head around that sort of stuff. And I mean, there's I mean, the one we all know, is what you sow, sow, so shall you reap. The great ticks tell us that that's one of the principal ones. But there's a whole heap of others. Forgiveness is at the heart of our ultimate realization. There's a lot more on it.
Alex Ferrari 13:00
So So where does so where does the reincarnation or people coming in and out of lives? does that play into what you saw?
Stephen Chong 13:13
That's a good question. The answer is no. I didn't see, you know, I've got particular beliefs. But in in the course of the text in the course of the writing, there was no mention of reincarnation. No.
Alex Ferrari 13:29
But there was mention of souls doing going through a process and well, let me ask you, yes, go ahead.
Stephen Chong 13:36
Well, let's put it this way. The the, the levels of heaven are experienced. They're an exploration so they're enabled there. It's an evolutionary process. So if we look at that second law, the Javelin of Heaven is neither vindictive or eternal, but probation, remedial in remedial, that means it in heaven is completely new, continuing to evolve through the evolutionary process. So whether that's reincarnation, reincarnation or not, I don't know. So,
Alex Ferrari 14:09
How many levels are there in heaven?
Stephen Chong 14:12
I would say that I experience probably four or five, I was taken to the nether regions, which I will
Alex Ferrari 14:25
So what are the nether regions?
Stephen Chong 14:26
Let me try and describe this. The best of my ability was taken through a like a landscape that was denuded by fire. So it was Yep. And the smell was was awful. And remember, I'm seeing and smelling and hearing all this and then taken through this immense portal. And remember, the character is guided by an angelic being so he's not on his own. He's taken there. And what I saw with it is huge vortices, vortices of power in which these souls were entrapped. And standing around these vortices of power, were these angelic beings. And the way it was described to me, and what I saw was these souls are trapped by choice. It's not judgment, trapped by virtual. Let's call them the seven deadly sins, the gluttony, the wrath, the last that sort of thing. So they are in trouble in trapped by this choice. And these angelic beings are standing there waiting for the first signs of redemption. So as soon as they were able to escape from that point of choice, they were taken away to some other area. But it was what was explained is that it was not God's judgment, it was choice in the souls were entrapped by choice. So that was, if that doesn't turn, knowing that if it doesn't turn one away from errant choices, I don't know what will. But then I was, I don't know. Again, I was taken in the nether regions, and then to even the higher levels. Right at the end of the book, I was taken up to these, these and angelic areas with grand views of the music and the love. The colors were embedded through through all of our lives.
Alex Ferrari 16:40
There is no for my understanding, there is no language on the other end is all telepathy. Almost instantly knowledge.
Stephen Chong 16:49
That's a very good question. Yes. Yes. Through the writing was, of course, there was a dialogue, as described in the book, but it was a process of Yes. So thought has power, yes. And thought, enable transportation, so the adept could transport themselves from one area to the other. Just by the parents door. Yes, that was inherent.
Alex Ferrari 17:15
So and was there an overwhelming feeling of love?
Stephen Chong 17:21
Ah, Alex. Yes, let me give you an example of that. The one that comes to mind was the this Athar character was taken into a hole for children. And what remember, I'm seeing through his eyes, so I'm walking into this beautiful building. And I can even now feel the sense of overwhelming love that was in this place. And this place was the word the court called the hole for children. So children that have left the earth plane early, are totally loved and nurtured by the Divine by the father, and his angels. I can barely describe the love that I felt soon as I walked into this building, it was like a warm blanket on a cold day. But the love all children, irrespective, irrespective of whether their ties to parental responsibilities are strong, or whether they those ties are severed, or are loved by the Father without exception.
Alex Ferrari 18:35
So there's so so what I'm hearing is no judgment. Complete love. That souls, its choice is a very big thing, freedom of freewill seems to be a very big thing there, that we choose to come down here to experience this this realm, if you will, to is it to to learn lessons?
Stephen Chong 19:03
Yes, I understand the boiling the with the divine purpose. You know, we we, we are a teardrop from new I have the Father, we all have a divine purpose to fulfill. That, to me is it is an absolute given.
Alex Ferrari 19:21
Well, let me ask you a question. Everything that we've been talking about so far, there's some very big some very broad ideas, but there's some ideas are very, leaning into Christianity and Catholicism are those kinds of iconic images of like the nether regions, and obviously, you know, there's other obviously other religions that talk about those kinds of things. But, you know, I'm just curious for like other people who have Buddhist beliefs or other kinds of beliefs that don't lead themselves into this iconography. What did you What is your feeling on that?
Stephen Chong 20:01
That's a good question. And let me let me answer that by virtue of a very recent experience. I lost a very dear friend a couple of weeks ago. And he was very, it was a very staunch Catholic, a beautiful man. And then he, I challenged his systems of belief through, through, you know, the things that we're talking about now. But ultimately, with these passing, now, I understand. And I feel a hole in the heart to through the brute of loss of my, my best friend, but I know this, even with the strong sense of religious, Catholicism that he believed in, he is in the most beautiful places, by virtue, not so much, perhaps because of his religious religiosity. But by virtue of what he's done for others, you know, he served his community with much love. So with the basis of the religion in his soul, but it's what he's what he did for the community, which was a great thing. So I, I know he's exhausted been the higher levels of the heavenly tears.
Alex Ferrari 21:23
So it's not as much about the, the club, or the group that you're involved with, it's your actions. And what you do is that what makes sense. So in other words, because there's so much that if I divisive, like, my religion is better than your religion, I'm the I'm the chosen people, you poor thing, you're not chosen, you're gonna go to hell, you know, these kinds of these kinds of ideas that have been thrown around for for millennia at this point in the game. But I like the idea that it is not the group that you're associated with, basically, you were born into, you're born into your religion, you don't, generally speaking unless you pick it up later in life, but you're born into the religion that you are raised with, because you're born with it, you don't come in as a Catholic, you don't come in as a Jew, you don't come in, as a Muslim or Hindu, you are taught these ideas by your parents and society around you. But it's not about the religious group that you're in, it's about what you do for your fellow man, the service that you provide, the deeds that you do, are much more, or those are the only thing that really count. But the basis of religion, brought him down a certain road, because there are certain ideas in Catholicism that are really good. There's a lot of dogma in there as well. Not so good. But that's the set of every religion. And I is that make sense?
Stephen Chong 22:43
Oh, absolutely. Alex, I think you're absolutely right on the money with that. And let's look at that through the prism of couple of these other laws. Where did it go? In Heaven, the Emperor wears no clothes. So to me that this perfectly describes what you're saying doesn't matter whether you're wearing the robes of a, of a bishop, or a pauper. You in, in heaven, you are, it's what you have done to your fellow man that causes you a place in heaven that determines your place in heaven. So, you know, if I've, if I've, you know, you could take a look at some of these world leaders now, so their presidents or whatever, but in when they confront themselves in, in the heavenly realms, they you don't where the status is what you've done to your fellow man.
Alex Ferrari 23:41
That makes that is it makes a lot of sense because it really doesn't at the at the end of the day, like they say you can't there's no u hauls attached to the horses. Generally, you can't take it with you. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars you've done? or what have you done with what you've been given? What have you done with the platforms you've been at? Or even not? So grandiose? What have you done in your own community? What have you done within your own family to help others in your family? It's something about being of service being of help. And what part does forgiveness play in the evolution?
Stephen Chong 24:21
Very interesting. Yeah. Let me give you another law around that. Where did the forgiveness one guy the giveness is at the heart of your ultimate realization. I think it's a hard one to wrap your head around.
Alex Ferrari 24:22
Well, let's unpack that for a second. Say that sentence again.
Stephen Chong 24:30
If forgiveness is at the heart of your ultimate realization
Alex Ferrari 24:44
So let's use the word realization is the word I want it because that's that's the important word there. If forgiveness in the word realization, and you know, you know, yogi's, like yoga Nanda spoke about Self Realization. And being able to realize who you truly are interior that you are a part of you are God, you are part of the source energy, whatever that you know, we call it God call it source, call it whatever you want to call it, and is realizing that and forgive, you cannot ascend to that level without forgiveness. And without service.
Stephen Chong 25:26
Yes, absolutely election that, to me was inherent in, in this character of ours, progression through the heavenly realm, he would not have been able to see what he saw and take into the places that he was taken to, without him forgiving others for the things that had have happened to him,
Alex Ferrari 25:52
And also not only forgiving others forgiving yourself. Absolutely. I mean, I think it's, I think that's the we're we're so much more brutal with ourselves than we are with others in many in many, many ways. And I think the biggest forgiveness is to forgive ourselves for mistakes or things that we perceive to be mistakes or things like that. You know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter these these things that we are we're, we're so caught up with things here on this plane, that at the end, it doesn't it doesn't matter, like when you're on your deathbed, are you really going to worry about that one thing that you did when you were in high school? Really? Yeah, but that one thing could have haunted you for 30 or 40 years? If not you maybe your entire life, because you haven't forgiven yourself of something that you perceive to have done wrong.
Stephen Chong 26:44
Absolutely. And, you know, we've been told by by virtue of religion, we've been taught so often that we are sinners, that we are sacred. And therein lies another law that you just find that one to have a go. To know that you are spirit is not to see new things in you. But to see yourself as you really are,
Alex Ferrari 27:07
Stephen Chong 27:08
Yeah, yeah, to remember
Alex Ferrari 27:11
To realize who you truly are realization of who this this, this, you are not this meat, meat suit walking around, you are more, more powerful. Jesus said these things. You know, Buddha said this, and these are these are not revolutionary ideas. Truth is truth, regardless of where it comes from. And that's the one thing I'm very, very interested about when I do this show is I realized that so many of the people that I bring on the show, very similar ideas are brought through different packaging, similar ideas, because truth is truth. And you might not want to listen, you might not connect with me or you in this conversation. But you might connect with somebody else in another show, you might connect with a book, you might connect with a TV show that's giving you the same idea you might connect with the movie that gives you the idea. But the truth is the truth.
Stephen Chong 28:02
Regardless, yes, there you go. And interesting, Alex, I think, and I pondered often about this distinction between, you know, we talked about near death experiences, and all this sort of thing. And why I was given this book in the form of story. Because what we know is when we talk about these things people get when they're entitled to, to burdens of proof, you know, they want to know where this stuff comes from. And I've pondered often why I was given, not the messages, but the story. And what I understand now is, is exactly what you're saying is that when you you know, when you hear others experiences in the near death field, it's rather objective, you know, you're seeing what the other person had the experience, it wasn't that amazing, which, which it is, you know, but when we read these stories, we can we delve into the levels, you know, beyond the literal whether you believe it or not, and down into the metaphysical where, you know, these these laws, universal laws are exposed, but even deep, we go into the mystical, when you read a piece or a chapter or something in you go, I got there. That's, that's the truth. That's my truth. And then thereafter, you obviously live that truth, but through the medium of story through the eyes of this character, we are able to read and discover our own truth which I think is the magical part of it.
Alex Ferrari 29:44
So what are some other levels that you're the character went through?
Stephen Chong 29:49
Oh, give you another one. The abode of reunion comes to mind. Again, remember on my I make no judgments on this, I just bought what I saw. The, the abode of reunion was what I saw was his plane, where the all the souls are standing in are in communion with other souls and some of the souls and the silver cord stretching over these, the mists, the myths between heaven and earth, about what the what sees, and what it was explained, is when, when we sleep, when we still in the body sleep, we are able to solve is able to go to this abode of reunion and meet up with loved ones that are able to, to guide and give us advice. If that makes sense. So then that soul, you know, when that when the body wakes up the other soul sleeps by itself. But that, that, that what my understanding was that cord, that silver cord of attachment was the love between way on earth having that soul in heaven that was, so we're burdened by something or problem or whatever, we're, the soul is able to get advice from those on the other side through that.
Alex Ferrari 31:25
It's it's so funny you say these things, because these are things I've heard before. And many near death experiences. The silver cord is even in an ancient spiritual texts, they talk about a silver cord, connecting the soul to the body. When we sleep, we're able to leave the body. Dreams are interpretation sometimes guidance for you. I wish they would be more straightforward with the situation. And not and not like, oh, there's a dog in my bed eating ice cream. What does that mean? I can you just tell me what the hell this is. As opposed to me trying to figure out why the dogs eating ice cream in my bed when I was a kid like I don't understand these kinds of these kinds of dreams that we get is fascinating to me. So that's a really interesting place. Well, I mean, you have to tell me a couple more because this is all fascinating to me. Okay, well, was there a life? Was there a place where life reviews happened?
Stephen Chong 32:27
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I miss I talked about what I understand is date that was like a purgatory. So when we pass we pass through these myths where our life is reviewed. And there's not, you know, that God sitting on his throne saying, No, you are bad. You are a bad dude, you're looking in the mirror of reflection. And what you have done to cause to effect in in another. But the interesting thing. What I saw from that is that when we when the souls exit these mists, if you will, they were robed in these. And the best I could describe in his like your, the aura you carry, but there's a beautiful light, some were beautiful groves in all the colors I can cannot describe to you properly. But so some souls, and you can't ran, you can't take this garment off, it's part of you. And some souls were coming through these myths, with these beautiful colors. But others were coming through in light, passion, dark, brown things of what these colors designate is the pathway that you then follow. Like the Grandmaster said to us, I go to prepare a house for you sit in John 14, the same thing. So the colors of the robes designate the pathway that you then follow. So each kind of pure, really spiritual and good guy or person, you are bigger. But there were others that were had to fall ahead to follow. There was a character later in the book that tried to move up, thought this person's you know, she was the station was higher than she thought she could not reach those higher levels.
Alex Ferrari 34:34
So it's interesting because I understand what it is it sounds from listening to you that there's a judgement play here, but from my end, meaning someone's judging you like you can't move forward. But it seems also that it's something that the soul itself is trying to like okay, I have to go down to this level and, and this is where I'm at right now because there's levels of of illusion of the soul. But with that said, Then, without reincarnation there is, it's difficult to understand how you can continue to develop and evolve and go back and forth. Because if you come into one life, just one thing and you live for one day, and you go up not a lot of stuff you could do so, yeah, the concept of the concept of reincarnation, which has been talked about, forever, it makes a lot of sense to me if we are to believe this idea of souls evolving. So it's learning. If we're here to learn lessons, then why does one person have a life literally a life of a minute or two on Earth and die? And, and others live for 100 years and die? And there's everything in between? And why do we some people get born as a male, in a place where men are strong, or female where they're oppressed, or you are a person of color in a place that you're oppressed, or vice versa? You know, or you're rich, or you're poor, there's so much experience to be done down here. It's difficult to do this one time. And it's truly not. Fair is not the word to use. But it's tough fair, you come down here day one time and life sucks. That's it, I don't get to go back down and try to figure it out. Like, you know, I want to try both sides of the fence. So it seems like that, Does that all make sense to you?
Stephen Chong 36:24
Oh, absolutely, it does. And let me repeat though, through the course of this book, I did not experience that sense of reincarnation, I believe in I hear what you're saying. Absolutely. And totally, I believe exactly what you're saying. Let me give you a there's a don't ask me what part it was. But there was a portion where one of the character was in a in a library, I think any he was told that souls, if you so choose, can, you know, you can evolve up to higher levels, you have to get all forgiveness that we talked about helps you evolve. But if the soul chooses to stay as they are, they are not, that's okay. But they're they are not denied the love of the Father. Father says, I'm okay with that. I still love you. It's all good. But you can, by choice, evolve through the levels of heaven by virtue of, you know, forgiving others and all those things we've talked about. So I guess said it quite a bit to reallocate reincarnation that says, if you want to go back, then you're all good.
Alex Ferrari 37:37
Well, there has to be, there has to be a system for the soul to work this stuff out. Because you can't be the one and done scenario, it makes no sense. Even on a logical step, everything else makes sense that you come back down to earth, you relive multiple lives, learn different lessons, you might have brought in some ancestral karma that you got to deal with. And there's that and you're there. All that stuff all makes sense to evolve to essentially become an Ascended Master, like Jesus or Buddha or Yogananda, or che or one of these, these walking, ascended, become eventually Ascended Masters. And then you choose to either go to the next level, which we don't know what it is, or come stay here and help other souls evolve to lift. That all make sense. But the one and done idea is very difficult for me to wrap my head around, because it's the same. It's the same reason why, when I was in first grade in cat and Catholic school, and the nun told me, Well, there's a heaven and hell and if you eat pork on Friday, you're going to hell, and if you kill somebody, you're going to hell I got that doesn't seem right. Like there's a, there's something a little off balance here. And I go well, and then later in life you'd like, I have a kid kids like I would never no matter what they did, would never dam them for eternal damnation in a Hellfire like that makes if we wouldn't do that to our own children. What would the source energy or God do? It makes? No, it just doesn't make any sense.
Stephen Chong 39:11
No, it doesn't. And I gotta tell you, I recently watched your wonderful interview with Neale Donald Walsch. He explained that so you man, that man is an absolute master.
Alex Ferrari 39:23
Love Neil. Neil is wonderful. And he walks that path. He walks that path. You Neil is such an interesting, interesting person because he's, he went through a lot through his life being homeless and all that. And this came to him and the way he abled, he's able to been able to later in life, by the way now, he wasn't a kid when this happened. And, and he has been able to put this stuff out there. He's, he's a one. It's like, I have the best job in the world. I get to talk to people like yourselves, and get exposed to ideas and thoughts and bring all these things out to the world. So they can You know, if they're looking for answers, maybe they find it in this conversation, maybe they find it in another conversation, I'm here to facilitate these ideas to come out into the world because they're needed now more than I think, than ever. It's kind of like the break. It's kind of the breakdown the old models of like, if you eat pork on Friday, you're done. You know, again, I can't I can't grasp that, you know, like, that doesn't make any, it
Stephen Chong 40:23
It doesn't make any sense
Alex Ferrari 40:24
It made it might have made sense, when, when pork wasn't cooked properly. And people would die back 2000 years ago, where this originated from, and they're like, Okay, I'm just gonna write this in like, they don't eat pork. And now that's what that's why people don't like pork. Because it was a disease. And there's a whole other thing. But yeah, but if you start really becoming, you really go into the the spiritual texts, and you really start to analyze what the core messages are of almost all religions. All major religions have cores of love, of understanding, forgiveness, service. And if you take all the dogma away, yeah, these teachers is what they were saying. So everything that you're talking about, you know, these different levels of, of heaven, that were different areas of heaven, that you're talking about some I've heard before. But others are new to me. And I cannot by any stretch, say that I know all Oh, yeah, I know how heaven works like I do know one.
Stephen Chong 41:31
Well, it's a quote from a thought comes to mind, Alex, he said, I'm not here to tell you what to believe. I'm here to tell you what is true. That was not a direct quote from this character. And whether it was channeled on odd or whatever, where I saw it from God knows where it came from. ultimate realization of the things that we're talking about, is not that we understand heaven, and what happens. It's how we manifest that understanding in the body, now on Earth, so that we are you and I, and many others are able to make life a better place, not just for ourselves, but for our children, our in our family, our community, our nation, now we will, which is what you're doing, which is wonderful, that that's the ultimate realization of the knowledge that we learn about the heavenly realms.
Alex Ferrari 42:32
And I think and also for people listening, because, believe it or not, the word God and heaven have their trigger words at this point, because of all, you know, all the issues that people have had with religious dogma over the years. So you're using the word heaven, as it could be the other side, it could be across the veil, it could be the you know, whatever word you want to use God, Source Energy, love all that is, there's many words, these are just labels. So I want people listening not to get caught up was like, Oh, this is just Catholic propaganda. I'm like, No, it is not by any stretch of the imagination. It is just a different terminology that you know, and it makes sense because you were raised Catholic, and you were raised in that in that. So this makes sense coming from which I brought up earlier in the conversation, like it's very Christian, Catholic icon, icon of a con iconographic, I can say the word icons that are being used in this description. But I want people to understand that this is the ideas behind this are not based on any religion, correct?
Stephen Chong 43:35
Correct! Absolutely. Absolutely correct. No. Spiritual Yes, I guess we want to give it a term. But it's you and I trying to understand life with the gifts that we've been given that
Alex Ferrari 43:52
The other side did you encounter any any Ascended Masters, did you encounter Jesus, Buddha?
Stephen Chong 44:00
Alex Ferrari 44:02
How could you leave this out? How could you leave this out?
Stephen Chong 44:04
I was waiting for you to ask me. I gotta tell you, when, when I was given him I know nothing about. So I'm seeing and hearing all of this. And I like I said before, there was no character development, no storyboard, I had no idea where the story was going it every time I said, I had no idea where it was going to answer the question, every time a character was introduced. Like would ask, what is this person's name? straightaway, I would get a far larger Samuel, they all come straight away. Then there was this angelic being that they were introduced to the took them to the higher levels, and I can not even begin to describe what I What I saw, and I think I did quite poorly in the book, give him self deprecating. But when I asked, What is this person's name? I got nothing. I. And I remember I asked three times, what is his character's name? So, in the book, I just called him the master. That was the best I could do. So I couldn't even begin to say one word, or Jesus, or probably a manifestation of all that, I don't know, when I know he was the master of the heavenly realms. But I cannot tell you he's, he's known
Alex Ferrari 45:46
But he was not a he was a source energy. He wasn't God. It was something else.
Stephen Chong 45:53
Yes, he were. He was a oh, he oversaw and I must say the rooms I don't know how I couldn't even describe how far that went. But he was an overseer, What a lousy term
Alex Ferrari 46:10
Administrator. He's, he's made. He's made management is what your
Stephen Chong 46:15
Prime Minister or something. So I remember distinctly three times I asked what this masters name was, and I was not given it. So I can't help you with that. I don't know.
Alex Ferrari 46:31
And did the character run into their his relatives or other souls that he's incarnated with or?
Stephen Chong 46:39
Oh, yes, yes, he he, the character of a thought, if you remember, he was abused by clergy. And he was stuck in this Purgatory and he got out all good. But then he he, he met up with his mother, who had not abused him physically, but didn't really nurture him as as a fine parent. And he met up with her after she passed. But just to give you a description of that, he was standing on top of a hill, overlooking the mists, and these souls were coming through the mists, and now erode in those colors I mentioned before his person, his mother walked out and she was dressed in these fashion, Brownie colors. And he, he approached her while she was she tried to go up to heavenly levels, pathway that wasn't her own and wasn't able. And then he approached her. And she was quite abusive to him. But he, he did, he's, he forgave her for what she had done to him. So he met her. And it was a relief of burden for him. She couldn't accept that forgiveness, and had to follow her own pathway. But he, by virtue of his capacity to forgive him for what she had done, he was further related to any any incumbent. Yeah, like the rock in which you attended
Alex Ferrari 48:17
Was there any spirit guides or anything like that, that he came with?
Stephen Chong 48:21
Yeah. Oh, Alex, that was taken to a school, a school for spirit guides, where spirit guides were actually taught how to be spirit guides, which is kind of cool. If you think about it, I mean. Again, I'm in this kind of lecture theater, and seeing, there's all these souls there. And they've been instructed by a master guide to how to be spirit guide sets, what what they did, which is kind of cool. And what's interesting, what come from that is we all without exception, have a spirit guide, call upon without exception. I understand that our listening is a little bit intimidating. But they are always there. And Epic, is my understanding.
Alex Ferrari 49:23
And from my understanding, also, there's many other there's groups with us at all times, the relatives, spirit guides, angels, ascended masters, all depending on what your mission is, in this life. How much how much help you need to walk the path that you're walking, essentially. Did you want Did you find and on the other side that there was a plan to a life a plan to a soul coming down meaning like, there's a reason you've come down you're like your character, born to a mother who was not very supportive and abuse. So verbally, then is going to meet this clergyman who was sexually abused as them and like, they're these are lessons that this, the soul needs to learn this this Well, this time around if we if we're going to be carnation route, but there's a plan to this whole thing. It's not just like, see what happens?
Stephen Chong 50:18
Yeah. Ohh I hope not.
Alex Ferrari 50:22
Right. I Oh, that would be horrific.
Stephen Chong 50:27
Even with all that easy just follow the plan we'd love to be a bit of place here 100%. Alex, I, and I think you mentioned I know you mentioned before that we all have a divine and specific purpose to fulfill. I there to me, there is absolutely no doubt about that. And to me, it comes back to the connection we find we uncover with the Spirit. In fact, it reminds me one of the laws let me give you another law law for time. Lead thou me on
Alex Ferrari 51:05
What's that again?
Stephen Chong 51:06
Lead thou me on
Alex Ferrari 51:08
What does that say? Again? I don't understand the whole word. The whole sentence. Say it again?
Stephen Chong 51:13
Lead thou me on. Okay, explain. So, to me it that's so profound because what it opens up the eye to say, the Father's Day, he's there with you us all the time. He's love boundless. What we need to do is to recognize that love that's there for us, on all occasions it ever. But we need to make that choice to make that connection. And there in my simple brain issues of trust and trust and faith. But by by opening the heart to say, Here I am big fella. Let's do we need to do
Alex Ferrari 52:02
To be to be open and to be open enough for the guidance for the faith that there is someone else or some you know the universe, whatever you want to call it is guiding you on a path that is for your best development, whether it be a fun path, or a not so fun path. It's irrelevant in the scope of the soul's evolution. For us, we have to deal with pain, suffering, happiness, joy, every Gambit while walking down this path. But at the end of the day, and I've used this this analogy so many times. But I think it's as perfect of an analogy for this as can be as a video game. We are the characters in a video game, our soul is the player on the other side. And we keep going down levels and we keep going around the corner that there's a monster there, you got to do it again, keep going and you're learning and getting experience as you go through the game. And there is a path that is laid out for you and the soul is guiding you through that path, then sometimes the monster does surprise you and you have to deal with it. But generally speaking, it's there's a guidance there behind the
Stephen Chong 53:13
And like what you do, you know, there's an essence of courage. We're putting ourselves out there for the university from the odd brickbat.
Alex Ferrari 53:24
Well, there's no i Yeah, I've said this on the show before I was scared to open the show up because I had another I have two other very popular shows in a different arena. And I decided to open up this show because it was what I was, you know, I had to I had to have a come to Jesus conversation, for lack of a better word to come to God conversation, just say, Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to trust the process, I'm gonna trust the path. I'm in your hands. And the second I did that the doors opened up and swung open. And the show is doing what the show is doing right now, which is growing exponentially and finding millions of people around the world and in a very fast, fast, fast way. And it's all because of faith and trust of like, okay, I'm doing, this is where I'm supposed to be in. And I've had such an enjoyable time talking to you know, guests like yourself and diving into the deepest, the deepest questions of that we are challenged with as, as humans, like, you know, why are we here? What is the purpose of this and trying to explain this whole life in every aspect of it, whether it just be spiritual, it could be financial, it could be physical, it could be mental, all the things all the gambits of life. So, you know, why wouldn't I enjoy this? I learned so much by just talking to people on a daily basis. So I'm very blessed. And then everybody else gets the benefit from these conversations as I put it out there, but yeah, it does take a sense of bravery to be able to do this kind of work and put yourself out there. But in today's This world is a lot easier than it was five years ago, 10 years ago, absolutely. 20 years ago, this conversation wouldn't have happened back then. So but I, but I do, I have to ask you that when you did come out with this, I'm assuming you came out of the closet, let's say, I'm assuming that everybody was open to these ideas, family, friends, colleagues. Are you nuts? Stephen? What are you doing? Like? How would you? How did you deal with that?
Stephen Chong 55:29
That's a very interesting question. And it comes back to what you were talking about, there is no you have to, it's a sense of sense of courage to say, Okay, this is. And it's almost as if now, the gift that I was given through this writing process, I have to say, Now, this is a message whose time has come. So I'm just a message, boy, you know, whether one believes, you know, whatever. But I've got to stand on the on my power button and expels what I saw. Because I believe it's so profound and so important to do that. Now. Others will make the judgment on what they read and see and hear, that's all good. If, if the message that we get out, or I get out, changes one life for the better, well, I think I've done my job. And the other books on mine, I've got to stop moving around Alex
Alex Ferrari 56:35
Stephen Chong 56:37
The other reality is that, you know, I'm 66 in a in a month, my, my time on Earth is limited. So if I've got a message to expand, then it needs to be done pretty quick.
Alex Ferrari 56:52
I completely understand you. And you know, at the end of the day, and I've said this, again, if the message that you hear in these interviews, and these conversations resonate with you, great use that information, and apply it in your life, if it doesn't discard it and move on. It's, it's as simple as that there's no, there's no in between, it helps you take it if it doesn't move on, this is not for you, you may not be ready for it, you might want to find it from another source, you might need to hear it four or five or six more times from five or six different people or different places or different ideas, before certain things start to germinate inside of you. And sometimes you hear us an idea like this and 10 years later it starts to grow.
Stephen Chong 57:39
Alex Ferrari 57:40
It's but but it's our job to put this out there into the world and get this information out to the world and hopefully help people evolve and awaken to their self realization to the realization of who they truly are. Regardless of of, of a lot of the crap that we deal with talent.
Stephen Chong 58:02
Sorry. It just to finish off, perhaps there was a part in the book where a thorough is taken to a hill, and there's a great chiasm before him. And on the other side of this chiasm is like the sort of like the pearly gates. He's beautiful heavenly gates taking him up to another level. And he looks at these gates and then looks into the transom and go borrow. If I got one more step and I'm, I'm in the chiasm, I'll fall down. And he looks behind him and goes, I can't go back there that was too painful. So he can't go forward, he can't go back. And eventually what he understands is that he has to have faith. So he takes a step forward. And it of course, he landed on his feet there was not chosen, they are awful. And he moves across to the higher the higher levels. But to me that explains exactly what we're talking about.
Alex Ferrari 59:02
Well, that's very Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade that he has to step over the chasm and he's like, I'm only a man of faith can match and then he steps in and and and, and of course there was a bridge there. But it wasn't so it's very Indiana Jones in that sense. But I'm gonna ask you a few questions even though I asked all my friends, all my guests, what is your definition of living a good life?
Stephen Chong 59:26
Fulfilling your purpose, recognizing and fulfilling your purpose in life, and then having the courage to step across the bridge and getting it done? You know, there's no, if I if I expanded from my own particular purpose, I don't want to come back. It's too hard here. So let's get it right this time so that we don't have to. That's my simple
Alex Ferrari 59:53
Right and that's just you thinking about it here because you're in the middle of it. But the second you get to the other side, you're like that was rough but Then I got at least another three or four lives I gotta go through. All right, who else do I go down with? All right, let's see how it goes. Who knows? Who knows? Look, it's just like when you're playing a video game, you're like, I don't want to go back to that level of gain more experience, because it's such a pain, it's going to take a few hours of my day and pop up. But I gotta go if I want to keep moving forward, so it's right. Now, how do you define God?
Stephen Chong 1:00:25
You know, there's a, there's a beautiful woman in my life, who is absolutely my mother. And lots of people come to see her for the, for the grace that she gives them. And she she answered this question by saying that when she sees people coming up her driveway, she says, God now I don't suppose to be anywhere near her, the elevation of her levels, but that's how she explained it. If I could get anywhere near that level, I'd be half happy.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:07
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Stephen Chong 1:01:10
Love it every opportunity love is all you need.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:15
As the Beatles say love is all you need.
Stephen Chong 1:01:20
That expands it does expansion.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:22
And where can people find out more about you and the work that you do?
Stephen Chong 1:01:25
Thank you, Alex. The books not quite out to public yet not till May. But if they can get onto my website, www.stephenchong.com.au. They use Stephen with a p h. And they can drop me a line mark a question or three. And I'll do my best to answer.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:47
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?
Stephen Chong 1:01:53
When you when they pick up the book and read, read with the spiritual eyes, and then they will see the laws of heaven that will make their life a much more fulfilling place.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:11
Stephen, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and for the work that you're doing in the world to help awaken as many souls as we can on this planet. So I appreciate you my friend.
Stephen Chong 1:02:20
Thank you, Alex. Much blessings to you too.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:24
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