TOP Indigenous Psychic REVEALS WHAT Will Happen to HUMANITY in 2025 & Beyond! with Shawn Leonard

The wind carries whispers of a time long past, yet they echo in the souls of those who walk the earth today. On today’s episode, we welcome Shawn Leonard, an Indigenous psychic medium whose connection to the spirit world is both profound and illuminating. Hailing from the Mi’kmaq Nation in Canada, Shawn carries the ancient wisdom of his ancestors, weaving their teachings into his modern spiritual work. His journey is one of reconnection—to spirit, self, and the earth.

Shawn shares vivid stories from his life, moments where the veil between worlds seemed thin, and spirits reached out to remind him of their presence. From childhood experiences of his great-grandparents’ ghostly visits to deeply impactful encounters with lost souls, Shawn’s path has been one of profound discovery. “If you’re not sure if psychic ability is real,” he advises, “learn to become more psychic. It’s innate within us all—a natural part of evolution.”

In his journey, Shawn leaned into his Indigenous roots, embracing sacred ceremonies and the medicine of his culture. Smudging—a ritual of cleansing with sage and sweetgrass—is not just an act for him but a bridge to the spirit world. Yet, as Shawn explains, it’s not the ritual itself that holds the power; it’s the intention behind it. “The words, the vibration, the sound, the heart—that’s where the magic happens,” he says.

Beyond his personal spiritual practice, Shawn sheds light on the interconnectedness of humanity. He speaks of the Indigenous medicine wheel, a sacred symbol representing harmony and balance among all peoples and the earth. Yellow for the East, red for the South, black for the West, and white for the North—each color representing a direction, a people, and a unity within the circle of life. “We are all one,” Shawn reflects, “and until we embrace that truth, our struggles will persist.”

Shawn also touches on humanity’s rapid technological progress and the spiritual shift it demands. He envisions a future where humanity learns to balance innovation with reverence for the earth—a harmony necessary for survival and expansion beyond this world. “In seven generations, we will step into other worlds,” Shawn predicts, “but we must first learn to live in balance here.”

SPIRITUAL TAKEAWAYS

  1. Reconnect to Your Innate Spirituality: Psychic abilities and intuitive connections are natural and present in everyone. Developing them is part of returning to our true selves.
  2. Honor Sacred Ceremonies: The power of ceremony lies in intention and love, not the tools or traditions alone. Approach them with a genuine heart.
  3. Embrace Unity: The divisions we see are illusions; humanity is one interconnected family. Healing comes when we recognize and celebrate our shared existence.

As our conversation with Shawn Leonard draws to a close, one can’t help but feel the weight of his wisdom and the hope he offers. His message is clear: balance, love, and connection are the keys to moving humanity forward.

Please enjoy my conversation with Shawn Leonard.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 548

Shawn Leonard 0:00
Indigenous people. I mean, we had, unfortunately, we lost who we were, right? A lot of it was lost. But I think everybody's lost who we are. There's big stuff coming for humanity. They were terrified of us because of what we can do, because now what we could do can affect them where they live, that when we do step out into this next realm, in the next seven generations, because I'm telling you, the next seven generations, we will be there. We will be going to other worlds.

Alex Ferrari 0:24
When you look at space and you look at the Earth, there are no lines, no there are no lines of nation. They are imaginary lines that we've been that man has put together to separate ourselves.

Shawn Leonard 0:36
If you're not sure if psychic ability is real, learn to become more psychic everybody. It's in us. It's innate within us. It's a natural part of progression and human evolution, not even human evolution. It's within all of the animal nation and plant nation within the world.

Alex Ferrari 1:02
I like to welcome to the show Shawn Leonard, how doing Shawn?

Shawn Leonard 1:04
I'm pretty good. How about you, Alex?

Alex Ferrari 1:06
I'm good, my friend. Thank you so much for coming down to next level. Soul studios, man, I appreciate it.

Shawn Leonard 1:10
Well, thank you for having me. I'm all the way from Nova Scotia, Canada, the great white north, the great white I'm just kind of brown right now. We did have snow over Christmas, but it melted away thankfully. So I'm happy.

Alex Ferrari 1:20
Well, I appreciate you coming on. You know, we have a our friend, Sara Landon, connected us, and she's like, You have to talk to Sean. And he has a very unique story, and he has a unique perspective on the work, the spiritual work that we do, because you are an indigenous psychic medium, yeah, which I've never, I've never met an indigenous like a medium maybe, maybe in my Latino roots, maybe I've met but never in the in the North American sense of North American indigenous. So before we get started, we'll talk about your book, spirit talker and and everything that you're doing. But were you always like this? Or was there a time in your life that these abilities were not shown to you, meaning that you lived a quote, unquote, normal life before the insanity?

Shawn Leonard 1:22
Right! Um, that's a tough question to answer, and I'll tell you why, because I think, you know, most of us probably have experiences all of our lifetimes, but there comes a point where you start to embrace things, or things shift or change within you that you have to see. I see the world differently. And growing up very young, I had many experiences that I thought were just normal, but maybe not so normal to everyone else, and my mom made me feel it was normal. So mom said, this is normal. It's all good. And you know, I remember at a very young age having my great grandparents would visit me. Oh, and they would after they passed away, I was very close to my great grandparents, and I remember showing waking up very early in the morning and looking in my room and seeing them standing there. And it would be not like I could see them like full body was, like silhouettes of people, but I knew that it was my great grandparents. And it kind of startled me a little bit, as it would, it would. I mean, you're just a little boy, like, you know, four or five years old, seeing, you know, shadow people in your room who sound like your great grandparents, but they felt,

Alex Ferrari 3:15
Did you hear it? Or did you hear it in your mind?

Shawn Leonard 3:17
I could hear them with my ears. I could actually hear them having like it was almost whispers. They were whispering to each other, although to themselves. Maybe they're talking their full voice, but to me, it sounded like whispers and and I told my mom, and my mom says, well, they just love you. You know they're just visiting you. And you know that's pretty normal to have your ancestors, the people that you love, to spend time with you. And I thought, okay, so it would keep happening. And I actually then at some point realized if I turn the night lights on in my room, that I didn't see them as much. So I had all these night lights and and then for whatever reason, my mom needed to save an electricity would come in and turn the night lights off. Like, how much electricity is a nightlight using

Alex Ferrari 3:59
Nickel, saving nickel, nickels a day, so

Shawn Leonard 4:01
Probably like half a penny back then. But anyway, one night, I woke up and I noticed that the lights were turned off, and I saw my great grandparents there and and I pretended I was still sleeping and I was I was still a little startled, because I could hear them whispering to each other, although I didn't cover up my head with the blankets. I just covered my eyes and pretended that I that I couldn't see them, right? And at one point, my great grandmother ran her fingers through my hair. Oh, that's fun, yeah? So she actually, and it was really not like startling in any way. It was almost like a term of endearment, yeah, comforting, like, very loving, right? And I didn't know she could touch me, so I flipped the covers off me. I did a back flip off my bed. I didn't think my feet touched the floor. Was out the door. I was in my mom's room, and I said, Listen, Mom, I know that they love me, but this is really scary. She just touched my hair and she's so she brought me into the room, and we had a conversation with my great grandparents,

Alex Ferrari 5:00
And did she see them as well?

Shawn Leonard 5:01
She did not,

Alex Ferrari 5:02
but she so you they were still waiting for you when you got back.

Shawn Leonard 5:05
No, they weren't okay so, but I went back in, and she made me talk to the air and because I couldn't see them, because the lights were on at that point, but I just started saying, you know, Nam pop, I love you, but you know, this makes me very uncomfortable. But could you please not visit me like this anymore? I appreciate if you're gonna visit me, just make sure I'm asleep. And that was it. And I never came again. I never saw them again. I have nothing that's that's not the 100% the truth, because much later in life, and I still feel them around, I just don't see them the way I did, but I don't need to see them or the way I did when I was young. But I do know that they do show up, because much later in life, I became a mailman, because I and I always joked that I was delivering paper messages by day and spirit messages by night, like a psychic superhero of sorts, yes, and I remember one time I went to this house and this man who I didn't see come from nowhere, right, just appeared, and as I was going to deliver the mail, he walked up to me. He says, I'll take the mail in for you. And I looked at him, and I said, You look a lot like my great grandfather. And it kind of took me back a bit. And he goes, Oh, he must be a really nice man. He was. I said, he really was. He goes, I'll bring in the mail. So I gave him the mail, and I thought, and I turned around, thinking in my head, I don't think this man lives here, right? And when I turned back around, he was gone.

Alex Ferrari 6:32
But what happened to the mail?

Shawn Leonard 6:33
That's what. did he deliver the mail? That's I was looking to the little hole going I hope he delivered the mail and but I mean, nobody ever called a complaint that they didn't receive their mail. So I'm assuming that it made it to where it needed to be. And I thought it was just a unique way of him to revisit me. But this way, I saw him, not as a shadow, but as a person, as a solid person. I was, you know, to me, I wasn't able to tell the difference if he was physical, non physical spirit or or what have you. It just looked like a real, physical person. There was nowhere for this person to go. And there was, like, probably seven stairs to go at the mailbox. And I even remember thinking I didn't even hear the mail slot move, and he just vanished. But I'm sure it was him. I'm sure it was. How old am I now? Then, then, oh, I was probably in my 40s. Oh, wow, yeah. My 40s late, like later in life. Okay, yeah. So it doesn't mean that they stopped visiting USA.

Alex Ferrari 7:28
So at what point did you decide to come out of the spiritual closet? Because, you know, your culture is very similar to the Latino culture. It's the spirituality psychic mediums, that kind of stuff is really in our DNA, very accepted. Yeah. So I imagine, from my from what I think would happen to you is that when you did decide to come out as a spiritual medium or a psychic medium, it wasn't, you weren't ousted, you know, ousted in like, you know, alienated and ostracized by your community. They were like, Oh, finally, yeah, is that the way it went?

Shawn Leonard 8:05
What kind of I mean, you know, through life, my mom was very Catholic, right? So I went to church, although it wasn't something that really spoke to me. And I just felt like I went through the motions of going through with my mom at a very early age, but I was always very connected, and having all these little strange things happen to me, like, you know, the visitations, etc. So, you know, when I was young, you know, I had all these strange encounters where people would visit me, etc, and all these like things that would happen that kind of were waking me my whole life. But it wasn't until my 20s, in my early to mid 20s, things started to kind of shift a bit. And I had children, and I was a, you know, very young father, and I remember going to where my ex wife would work at a restaurant, and just vibing people out for fun. And I did that quite often, but I just never really told anybody about what I vibed out. I would just go and vibe out, you know, people for fun as I'm sitting there waiting for to get done work, right? Sure. And then I remember looking at one person thinking, I bet you that guy's like, cheating with that girl. I just have a feeling they're cheating. And and then I and then another person I'd look and say, okay, he feels like somebody couldn't be trusted with money. And then another person I'd say, I feel like you know nothing against people who use medical marijuana or whatever you know, at that time, I felt like he was probably a drug dealer, and not, like, in a mean way or a bad way, or, like, horribly hurting people with, like, hardcore drugs or anything like that. But because in Canada now, you know, we have legalized marijuana and things like that,

Alex Ferrari 9:41
As a nation, as a nation, we are, we're a little bit behind. We have multiple states.

Shawn Leonard 9:45
And I mean, I don't, I don't use drugs in any way myself, but I understand why some people may out in the world for reasons for help them. Absolutely right. It is medicine. It is a plant medicine. But I, you know, and I then, after my wife got done work, I would tell her about it. I. And she, she, she kind of ridiculed me a little bit. She beat you up about it, because she said she thought you're a little judgmental, aren't you? I'm like, I'm not being judgmental, just these thoughts that I had.

Alex Ferrari 10:09
But, but did she But did she understand about the psychic medium stuff?

Shawn Leonard 10:12
She did. She knew is always kind of very connected, very spiritual, and just out there in the world, like in in have had a different perception, you know, part of who I am as Indigenous person. You know, ceremony and connecting to our ancestors and culture is something who we are. It's, it's a part of who we are as in our being. And so anyway, she, she, she just made fun of me a little bit. And then we went home, and within a week, she come home, and she goes, you're not going to guess what happened today. And, like, I don't know what happened. She goes, Well, you know, I caught that cup of kissing in the kitchen. The guy got fired for stealing money, and the guy could come in and got busted by the cops for stealing drugs. And she said that happened in one day. She says, How did you know that? I said, Well, I didn't really know. I mean, nobody really knows everything for sure. It's just, it's sense of things, right? And that's all. I brushed it off. It's just something that I was, I had an extra perception of sorts like that. So she decided she was going to bring somebody to the house, another waitress. Her name was Jen Syme, really nice lady, and and I was, we were going to have dinner, and after the the dinner, I was going to read her. And I thought, Well, I mean, I don't really know what I'm doing. I can't do this. You know? She goes, Oh, I'm sure you can just do what you did at the restaurant. Just tell her what you what you think or feel, etc, and I'm sure she'll be happy. And so she came over, we had dinner, and after dinner, we sat down and deliver a room. And, you know, I started to vibe her out like I did, and I, you know, apologized to her, saying, you know, I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm so sorry. You know, I know you're probably expecting, have high expectations. And then I said, you know, I feel like you're you have a grandma pass something very generic, right? Because I was nervous, very careful, and nervous about saying anything. And she goes, I do have a grandma that has passed. And I thought, Okay, well, that's pretty easy. And then I said, well, and then I heard the name Dale in my head. I said, Who the hell is Dale? She goes, I just met Dale. Oh, my God, we're dating. I'm like, Really, wow, I guess I did. She goes, Yeah, I just met Dale. And she's, I said, Are you writing a book too? She goes, I'm working on a book, actually, right now. And I said, this is I'm seeing something about you, like, moving around the world and pets. She goes, we just talked about looking after people's homes and caring for their pets around the world. Like, are you shitting me? Wow, I was just kind of, like, shocked and and again, in my head, I'm thinking, this is, like, some type of, like, I'm some type of Mind reader, or some sort because, like, she's thinking about these things. It's, you know, it's in her head. And this is coming from her somehow. And I'm still very, almost a little bit analytical over it. And then she goes, Well, I really came here to connect to somebody. I'm like, okay, not your grandmom. She goes, No, there's someone else. I was really hoping that you connect to someone else. Well, Jen, you know, I'm not very good at this. This this is new. And, you know, just, just try. She goes, I think you're better than you know. So I just kind of sat there, and I stared blankly, like I normally do, and an image popped into my head, and it was of a young man, and he's wearing a baseball uniform and a number on his shirt, and he's bouncing a baseball up and down his hand. And I thought, What the hell is this? Right? Like, where is this coming from? So I told her, and she goes, that's who I want to talk to. And then I saw him walk into a shed, and that's all I saw. And then she started to cry. She goes, that was my best friend, Groberg in high school. I've always wanted to make a connection to him. We played baseball, and one night after game, he went home and he hung himself in the shed. Yeah, and I've always wanted to know if he was okay. I'm like, and I didn't know how to answer that. I feel he's okay. Jen, you know, I feel he's okay. I feel like he's in a good space. Because I was so new, I didn't really know. So it gave me the encouragement to kind of open up more, to develop, to grow, and to start meditating more, and might start talking the spirit world more, and not just through ceremonies, through culture, but, you know, doing this in a very intentional way. So I started to do that. And things more. Things started to happen. It actually got a little weird, even weirder than my life already was, you know, it was just things were aligning just the right people at the right time. And, you know, different people were coming to see me. Now I never, I never, like put out there that I wanted to do this. I never put out there that I thought that I this is who I am. It was like spirit had had a made the choice for me, and but I decided to kind of open up to it, to see what could grow or what could develop. And when that took place, it was like when, when you step into a space like that, you know of the uncertainty. You know spirit will step in to help and guide you. And when you don't know, you know the spirit world was there helping you. They they will show you that they are. And you know, she went and told 10 friends and. And you know, next, you know, I got people calling me all the time to come see me, and I'm like, What the hell just happened here?

Alex Ferrari 15:06
Let's start charging. I can't keep doing this for free.

Shawn Leonard 15:08
Yeah. So I did. I started charging a little small, minimal fee of, like, doing sessions and and then I just got so busy. It was, like, booked for like, six months. And then next thing, I was booked for a year. I was like, this is I'm still working, trying to do all like balance on my life. And really it led me to an imbalance, of course, right? Because I didn't know how to balance my life in a good way at that time,

Alex Ferrari 15:29
And you were too scared to go in full time just yet?

Shawn Leonard 15:31
I was my mom, you know, God love her, but she ingrained in me, Shawn, because you got a good job.

Alex Ferrari 15:38
Yeah! Oh no, yes, that it's that baby boomer. Yeah, it's the baby boomers. Yeah,

Shawn Leonard 15:42
You have a job, you have benefits, you have a family, you know, you have to keep these things. So I was working non stop pretty much, I know, and and, you know, unfortunately, my marriage fell apart. And, you know, I still have my two beautiful girls who I love very dearly, who live in Calgary, Alberta, but, you know, it was a life learning lesson for me, and I really did embrace it. And even I did embrace it, I'm going to tell you, it wasn't like, as clear cut as like, I am sure, like I was very confident. This was all real. There was still a small Smidge within me of doubt, and it was a fellow who showed up in my life. His name was Orion. I wrote about him in the book spirit talker, and we worked together. And he was a Muslim fellow from from Bosnia, and I started to tell him about my, you know, kind of spiritual growth, and my understanding of connections to spirit and such. And he gave me a hard time. He's a guy we played sports together. He really has will be pretty good. And so anyway, it was, it was this moment that shifted my life. Even though I was kind of embracing, I was still like, doubtful, and I was just typing in my computer because I was doing like, AutoCAD and bills and material at that time for, like, high end office furniture for a company named Hayworth. And so I was working at the company, and just sitting there, you know, blindly, blankly staring at my screen. And I noticed, when I get into these spaces, it's almost like a meditation of sorts. The Zone, your zone, you get in the zone. Right as I get into the zone, I started to hear a voice in my head that I didn't invite. I didn't anticipate. It just kind of popped into my mind, and it just said, it just said a name, and it was repeating the name over and over and over again. In my mind, it was Charlie. I just said, Charlie, Charlie. Try. I'm like, okay, either I'm going schizophrenic. Maybe there's some mental, real problem with me. Maybe I'm confusing this with something. And then I thought, Okay, well, I'm gonna go home. I'm not feeling well. I should go home. And I looked at Orion, and when I looked at Orion, it stopped. I'm like, okay, so I think what Orion must be doing something with Charlie on the weekend their buddies, you know? I because I don't know. I really don't know most of the time. Sometimes when these things are given to me, I just know they're coming to me. So I said, Okay, or I got a really weird question for you, but are you doing something with Charlie? Or did you used to know a guy named Charlie? And he goes, I used to know a guy named Charlie. Why do you ask? He says, that's a really strange question to ask. I said, Are you thinking about no. And then soon as i He said he knew him. It was like an image. Got impressed in my mind. It was a bar sign, and the bar sign was, it's a bar in Calgary, Alberta called the town and country bar, and it's just a T and C, the T and C, right? And he went, blink, like, That's so strange. Why would I see the town and country bar sign? He goes, that's the last place Charlie was seen alive. I'm like, really? I mean, you don't, you know something happened to Charlie, right? I didn't know what happened to Charlie yet. Then I start to see an image of this house, and there was a backside entrance to the house going down into a basement. There was a little thatched roof, and he was walking down. I saw four, about four or five shadows behind him, but I couldn't make out who they were. I felt some blunt force trauma to the back of my head, and he was going into the house, and that's all I saw. And I asked him, I said, did you know about this? And he said, No, because how do you know this? I said, I don't know this. Orhan, I really don't know. He goes, No, somebody told you. Somebody put you up to this. It's not really cool. And he got really angry. Really angry with me. Yeah, I freaked him out. I was freaking myself out, to be honest, because it's not something that I didn't know what was coming from, really,

Alex Ferrari 19:30
And you also didn't have the tool set or the experience on how to curb what was coming because, from my understanding with psychic mediums, information comes in, but it is up to you what comes out and when it comes out, and to who it comes out absolutely, because it could destroy a life. It could or it could

Shawn Leonard 19:48
Potentially, potentially, like I what I find, all the information that has been coming to me from all the years is to help people. It's never to hurt my heart like hurt or harm anyone. It was always come. To me to kind of help guide, heal,

Alex Ferrari 20:02
But they also have to be prepared and prepared for, like, because, yes, because we look we all got stuff we got work on, yeah, but if it's just thrown on us and we're not ready, it's jarring.

Shawn Leonard 20:12
It is jarring, yeah? And I actually, we had to kind of leave it because he got angry, yeah, so I stopped because he didn't understand. He didn't understand. And he says, like, what are you trying to say? Are you saying I did something to him? And I'm like, no, because I was in Bosnia when this happened. I wasn't I'm said, I'm not accusing you, or I'm not. So we let it go, and I forgot about it. He stopped hassling me, thankfully, which was kind of nice. And I picked up the Calgary Sun paper, as I did quite often in because, I mean, I'm from Canada. We were hockey fans, right? So, checking out the hockey scores. And so anyway, I'm flipping through one of the Sun looking for the latest hockey score of the Calgary Flames. And as I'm flipping through there's a story of, like, almost a half page story about a guy named Achari who is nicknamed Charlie, and he was working at the airport, you know. And where he was last seen was at the town of country Briar, where he was found murdered. In this home. They had a picture of the home with the thatched roof the stairs, so I saw that, and I'm like, okay, so Oren comes in. I put the paper down in front of him. He said, I want you to read this. And he did, because you remember that little conversation we had a little not too long ago about this? He goes, not real. Not really. I said, I know you do. Come on, please just be honest with me. Because, okay, I remember. He says, What do you want me to say? I said, I want you to tell me the truth. Did you know anything about this house? Because at that point, I was thinking that somehow I'm receiving this from people, right? And at that moment, I felt almost like it was a person telling me a story. And if he didn't know this part of the puzzle, then there's no way that can come from him. It's not coming from him, it's coming to me from somewhere else, and you didn't understand the spirit world was talking to you at this I did, but, man, I'm gonna tell you I was stubborn. They literally had to beat me over the head with this stuff. And it's, it's, you know, in the more I started to embrace, right, the more I started and that was, like, that moment was pivotal for me, because I realized this was real, 100% real. This isn't something that I can make up. This is something that is coming to me from somewhere, and I'm gonna tell you, it feels like it's coming from people, you know, you know, I remember when I was young in the experiences that I had, but maybe that's my imagination. I could brush things off, but I can't change this. This is like cold, hard facts of something that someone else didn't know. And I asked, Where I like, how did you know this guy? And he goes, Well, I worked with him at the airport, like, seven years ago. And I said, Well, how, why would you be mad at me? How could I know I didn't even know you worked at the airport seven years ago, let alone knew a guy whose nickname was Charlie and his real name was a charity for God's sake. How am I supposed to put all that together? And he goes, I don't know he said, Sean, but he says I needed to know that he was okay. And that's all he said. I said, Let's just leave it at that. And it was at that time I realized that there's a conversation that happens like in full depth of how this works. I understood the the language. Let's say I just it's like, in a moment, even though I was playing with, like learning a vocabulary, all of a sudden, one day, it became fluent, and I then knew, and I didn't have those words like clairvoyance, clairsentience, clairaudience, Clair cognizance. I didn't know what those words really meant, right? I just knew that I could see things, feel things, hear things, and just know things. And it was like a combination of everything coming together that was being put, placed in within my mind. It was just, it was amazing. It was amazing. And I decided, from that point in my, like late 20s, at that point, that I decided I was going to embrace this a lot more and and it like that moment, like shift in my life.

Alex Ferrari 24:01
So with when you're going through all of this, how do you how do you balance this all I mean, do you do I always like asking, do you see dead people? Are they walking around? Is there anyone right behind me? No I'm joking. I'm joking.

Shawn Leonard 24:15
Sure there's people with you, but I don't see them like that very often.

Alex Ferrari 24:18
Yeah, so for you, because I know some people see them all the time. Some people never see them, only hear them. So it's all very, you know, dependent on the person.

Shawn Leonard 24:26
I think we're all dimensional beings, yeah, right. We live in one dimension now, obviously we're here, right? There's many other dimensions of space, time and energy. And I feel like our spirit people, you know, when we transfer from this physical form, our spirit, our light continues on right, and it continues on to what, to where. And there's different levels of energy for which I can reside in. I mean, there's earth bound energy. And, you know, sometimes I've gone places and have seen what people would call ghosts, like, there's an earth bound spirit that they're there. And I've got even gone out, like when I was really trying to understand. And the levels of energy of people. Where are we going? Where we can reside? I started to delve into the paranormal, let's say, and go to places that were haunted, because I really wanted to understand why some people really loving and caring compassionate, why are some people angry, upset and have this huge ego they're still identifying as who they once were, not just the many lifetimes of who we've lived, not only within this world, but many other worlds. You know, there's so much more to us than we can even comprehend, and just this experience, but still, some people cling to it, and I wanted to understand why and why they have not moved into a different space, or higher level energy, or higher source of energy, or or the other side, whatever word you want to call it. I don't think there's every any wrong or right word for it. And many religions around the world have been trying to describe it in different ways forever.

Alex Ferrari 25:48
And these are ghosts. You're talking about these?

Shawn Leonard 25:50
Yes, so I went out and started to kind of delve into that a lot. And I met, I met many of them. I even recorded a bunch of them talking to me. So I know at this point, you know, my life changed from the sense of and I started to be able to record different spirits talking to me. I remember even doing a reading at home when I had people were coming to me very early on. I used to, because I started with tape cassettes. You know, the internet wasn't around. There was nothing there. I'd have to test my cassette tape like, you know, play and record. And I would always have to go, testing 123, testing 123, so I did that, and I was waiting for someone to come home. Nobody was in the house but myself. I smudged. I invited the spirits of the people to come, you know, prior to them showing up. And when I went to play back the recording on my tape, I heard somebody go, I'm right here.

Alex Ferrari 26:39
No, that's fun.

Shawn Leonard 26:40
Yeah. Talking with the willies.

Alex Ferrari 26:43
I mean, that's always fun,

Shawn Leonard 26:45
Yeah, but it wasn't like scary,

Alex Ferrari 26:49
But it's still, you know, right? I mean, I've watched way too many horror movies,

Shawn Leonard 26:54
Exactly, but it was like, really, like, something tangible, of a voice that was there, that was not mine, and I realized it was a person, because when the person come, I was able to play the voice, and she identified with it as her father. Oh, wow. So she recognized, she recognized the voice. And then, you know, I actually gave her the cassette. I wish I would have kept that voice, because it was the first one I recorded. But over the years, during different sessions, I was able to record many different spirits that would show up and leave the imprint. Now, when I used to record earthbound spirits, they would still sound like who they once were. And I remember one place in particular, in Nova Scotia that I that I because I end up moving back home to Nova Scotia, Canada, where I currently reside, and I went to a place called Point Pleasant Park. And if you go to my YouTube channel, I actually have a recording of different voices on there, of different spirits, but there's one of a pirate, and he still sounds like a freaking pirate. He goes, he sounds like a pirate. I like even though I was like, This man was coming around, he was kind of little startling to me. But, you know, he was still and his name was Edward, Edward Jordan, and I was able to identify him, you know, by speaking to him. And I actually recorded his voice. And then when, after the the session, because people brought me blindfolded, wanting to see if I could tune into some spirits there, because this is where I was delving in, probably one around 2009, 2010 that's when I was really delving into that really deeply. And so I did my research, and it turns out there was a pirate, Edward Jordan, and he, you know, did some bad things. And in Nova Scotia, because in Canada, we have a very rich, deep, long history and culture that goes way back to the late 1700s and he had a ship taken from him because he was a criminal, and then he somehow convinced him he should be a mate on the ship, and then killed everyone, except one guy who got away and threw him out into the St Lawrence River. And he survived, and he couldn't swim, but he was hanging onto a board, and he came ashore and said, well, listen, Edward, that was, you know, helping me on the ship, his once old ship, you know, killed all these people, etc. So they actually were able to catch up to him, capture him, and in Point Pleasant Park, they hung him. They hung him there. But not only did they hang him there, they hung him and put him in a gibbet. Now in Nova Scotia and Canada, went back in the day for pirates. Sometimes it would take people and they would hang you, but also put you in a metal hanging Yeah, and they would tar you and feather you and hang you there in the harbor, sure, as a deterrent, as a deterrent for other people, right? So, so this is the person that I connected to, lovely, not a happy fellow. I'm assuming he's see here's that ego, right? That fear, that ego, and that's where people think negative things in relation to spread. They're still just people,

Alex Ferrari 29:45
So why don't they let go? What's the reason? Since you've talked to so many of them at this point, I always wondered that, like, Okay, if there's a ghost who's been traumatized or, you know, you walk into I remember when I went back to New York to manhat. That, and I went to the 911 Memorial, right? And I was raised early, early my life, raised in New York, I was in the Twin Towers when I was younger. You know, visiting like a tourist, of course. So I remember like looking down and being in the Twin Tower and seeing the other time. So I had a connection to the space. I still remember walking out of the subway, and as I stepped onto the sidewalk, the energy I felt was so heavy. So it was like I had to, kind of like, really, almost like, protect myself from this heaviness that was there. I imagined that if you walked onto that area, there's probably a ton of angry people, or tongue bolster or things like that. But you go to the place you know, in Auschwitz, you feel that, or or Gettysburg, I heard is another one. Why can't they leave? They can and But why don't they?

Shawn Leonard 30:53
Well, it's, it's their their belief, their choice. It's their choice. We have free will. We have free will, not we have free will and spirit. Nobody says you have to go through the big, bright, white light. White Light. Nobody's saying, Okay, you got to go. You got to go now, you know, and I feel like after some time, that light may dissipate in some way would could it ever come back for you? Of course, I bet I believe it. Can I believe and come back for everyone? I've actually, in my time, helped some spirits transition, and there's some that I haven't been able to help transition because they I can't make them, but what I can do is, you know, through ceremony and indigenous culture, one of the things we do is smudge, so we can clear the space and put our prayers, our words, our ceremony, into the smudge and almost create a shield, or a barrier of sorts, like in a space. So they don't like that. It's like garlic the vampires, let's say that doesn't mean it's hurting them. It just means they stay outside of that. So, you know? And I've met many spirits like this, and I've tried to help all them, if I can, and there's been places I've been where people said their spirits, and I've not seen or heard one of them, you know, I don't, I can't. They may just avoid me too, because they even feel like that sometimes they know who I am and they don't want to deal with you? No. I mean, if you knew there was somebody you didn't like, let's just say the Pope was coming to town. I'm not equating myself to the Pope, not in any way. But if somebody was coming to town and you were non Catholic, would you go listen to him? No, you just avoid them. You'd say, I'm going shopping today. I'm going to Walmart.

Alex Ferrari 32:18
That's really interesting about that, because so many people are, I mean, Hollywood has made ghosts, you know, yeah, legendary in that sense of the fear and the poltergeist and that kind of stuff. But on a spiritual standpoint, I always wondered what happened to those souls and why they won't let go. And a lot of psychic mediums like yourself will go in and literally have a conversation with them where they don't even know that they're dead, yeah, that they don't even know that they've passed like, it's just, like they're just staying in this and they're angry that, why are you in my house? Right? You're in their space. Like, you know, do you ever see that movie? The others? Yes, the Nicole Kidman, yeah. What a brilliant film. Absolutely, you know, the ghosts thought that the live people were the ghosts because they didn't know that they were dead. That's right. Sorry. Spoiler alert, it's been around for 25 years. Sorry. But that idea was so I thought was so cool and such a cool way of telling that story. But there are souls who have passed, yes, sometimes traumatically, sometimes they just have a lot of unfinished business, and they get caught up in the story of the personality, of the ego of this place, and a lot of times, they don't even know that they actually have passed. Right? Is that true?

Shawn Leonard 33:29
That's true. Well, I think some of them, most of them, know that they've passed. Okay, most of them have. But I feel like they they don't believe they're dead because they're not, because they're still alive in just different forms. So they don't, they don't identify as being dead, because they still they know that their spirit. They walk through walls, they walk through things. They see people. They can avoid that, but they just just avoid people. And I, I've been in places, and one of the places I've been to the place, I'll tell you about two stories that are just amazing to me, that because I learned from these experiences too, when I because I don't walk in, going, hmm, I'm just like, You mean Shawn Leonard, like the big the big

Alex Ferrari 34:04
P, actually, the big PM, yeah,

Shawn Leonard 34:08
I don't walk around like announcing myself. But I remember, I was like, on an island in Nova Scotia called tan Cook Island, and I walked out to the island, and I went into this little fishing shack that somebody's selling knick knacks, right, little souvenirs and stuff. There's very few people live on the island, and it's a very cool space, by the way, because you don't need a license to drive there or anything like that. There's, there's cars driving in with holes where your feet would go, nice, yeah? It's kind of kind of kind of silly, yeah, yeah. But it's been around forever, and there's been a lot of people living there. So I walk into this fishing shack, and I hear somebody go, Oh, my God, he's gonna know all my secrets. And I heard him walk out the door. Like, did you guys hear that? And there's only me, my wife, and somebody else working there, who are friends? I said, You guys just hear that man walk out of here? They're like, No, I said, A man just walked out of here. And. I described his voice, and she goes, That sounds like so and so from up the hill. I said, What do you mean? Because, yeah, he lived up the hill, and he killed himself and his children in that house up there. Oh, geez, I didn't hear any children mind you, right? But I heard him,

Alex Ferrari 35:15
And he was so traumatized,

Shawn Leonard 35:17
Like he traumatized himself, I'm sure. I mean, I feel like he had mental illness, sure, right? And probably very severe mental illness. So, I mean, nobody does anything that normally to their family or hurts anybody. There's something off, there's something not functioning, right there, right? So he's done something horrible. Could I help him? Maybe, if he allowed me to, but he'd have to actually listen to me. You know, it's like a psychologist or a therapist or, you know, we're still people, you know, if you if you want help, sometimes you have to go talk to somebody to maybe get some help, and maybe they don't know how. Or maybe there's this fear that I'm, you know, potentially because of belief systems. Maybe they believe, well, now I know death is real, and then I can exist. There's a light. Maybe if I go, I'll go to hell. Maybe, maybe there is no real hell. Maybe you're in it, and you're keeping yourself there. And so I've been there a few times, and other people have sensed and felt them out there, unfortunately, and and, but another property that I went which is kind of neat, because I don't go around thinking I'm going to be hearing spirits. But I went to another property, and I was just there for September fire outside, out in the middle of nowhere. Musket of it, and it's nice. And Janet Maxwell, McDonald, is the lady's property that I was on. And so I went out there and we were having a fire. And I'm just admiring the stars, the beauty of the night. And, you know, I'm just just in awe, right? And I mean that space, and then I hear this lady come up to me, go, I don't like you on my property, I pardon? And it was quite loud in my year, right? And I didn't see her, but I heard her, and I said, there's a lady on your land. She goes, Oh, that's so. And so she's the old owner, and we feel around every now and they're like, I'm like, that sounds all light and flow for you. But this lady doesn't sound so nice to me. She doesn't like me. And then I said, she's gonna come back and talk to me. I know it. So I took my my ex wife's phone, and I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna record because I know when she does come back to talk to me. Because this is the really cool part, because when I do get an earth bound spirit that comes to talk to me even though I'm with other people. Other people won't hear them, but you can, I can hear the machine and the recorder can pick them up and record them. It's mind boggling to me. How is it that I can hear them? I always kind of joke that I'm getting older and I got a lot more hair my ear. But you know, for some reason, I'm able to hear it, and other people aren't. But if I hit record on like a digital recorder on my phone or what have you, and just sit there, then sometimes you can actually hear them talking to me, and if I hear them, I can stop and rewind, and you can hear them too. So that's what I did. I waited, and probably about 15 minutes went by, and they just got chit chatting again, and she came back, she goes, tell that woman's son to stop hunting on my property. I said, got her rewind it. Played it back. They could hear. And so anyway, she's still out there, and her son does hunting the property. Lives just down the road, and he's got a little hunting camp back in the woods too. And she about a year ago, she called me and said he was back then hunting camp, and about three o'clock in the morning, somebody came and started banging on the windows and doors, and he got out there with his gun, and there's nobody around, and he won't stay back there. Now, she says

Alex Ferrari 38:32
It's pretty fascinating the idea of Earthbound, earthbound spirits, because it's something that so many people are afraid of because of Hollywood and everything like that. But if you look at them as just people, people who are in trouble or are confused or lost, that's where it goes from my understanding that when you walk into a space like that, depending on who you are, and the kind of light or energy that you're putting out there that could repel very much, like, what happens to you? Sometimes they're like, Oh, hell no, I gotta get out of here. This guy's gonna I don't want to. I don't want to deal with that trauma, right? I don't want to talk to him. Absolutely. They won't. They can't really affect you, and they can't really hurt you, no. But, like, if, if any of these, these souls are on the wall here, these Ascended Masters would walk into a space like that, they would scour like, if there's any, they would just leave, right because the light would be so powerful, the the energy, the vibration, the frequency, so powerful, they wouldn't even want to be around them. Is that That's fair? Is that fair to say?

Shawn Leonard 39:38
That's true. Because if you approach them, I mean you, I always approach all people with kindness, compassion, love. You know, I don't approach even spirits, no matter what level of energy they're in. And most, let's say 99% of the spirits I connect to communicate to me, are from a high level energy. But it's that 1% you know that every now and then I run into that are still lingering around wherever they are. Mm. Yeah, in their own energy field, in space. I like to say that it's the astral world. You know, the in the astral world are in that space. It's still very much connected to the earth, kind of in between spaces. I don't want to say it's Purgatory and somebody's keeping you there. It's, that's religious belief systems, which I don't subscribe to, per se. But there is levels of energy, and I would help them if they'd be willing to listen. And, you know, in indigenous culture, we have ceremonies like where we light sacred fires and we make medicine offerings, we put our tobacco into the fire and say our prayers. And I think that shifts the energy from which they are in if they would choose to be part of that. And I do feel like, you know, no matter what religion is out there, I feel like there is some type of ceremony in relation to the loss of when somebody makes their their you know, they transition from physical to spirit, right? And I feel like that does help many spirits move on to a higher space. They're surrounded by unconditional love of the people that they that they were family with. You know, there's an energy there.

Alex Ferrari 40:58
Shawn, let me ask you, this isn't I've always wanted to have this question answered, and you might be the person to answer it, ceremonies, in general, yes. What gives them the power or the I guess the word is power. What gives a ceremony? It's power. Is it the sage that's actually burning? Is it the intention of the person doing it, and the frequency of that person that can or if it's a group of people that creates this barrier, it sounds to me, it's more energy of the human beings it is doing that, as opposed to the sage.

Shawn Leonard 41:33
Yeah. I mean, I like to say, you know, you see those old movies where somebody's walking to a space and, you know, there's haunted and you get the priest, and he's like swearing at the spirit, pretty much saying the power of Christ, and nobody goes anywhere, right? It's the energy that you give it. It's the energy of the person that you you operate from. Because, if you know, when you approach something with fear, with in indigenous culture, one of the things we do is we smudge. It's big, a big part. So when you say smudge, what is smudging? Well, Smudge is like a ceremony where we use, like sage, sweet grass, tobacco, cedar. Sometimes we'll use other sacred medicines for that, but we put it in a smudge bowl. We cleanse our hands. So we cleanse our aura, let's say our spirit, but we say good things. You know, creator, help me to know good things in life. Creator, help me to see good things in life. Help me to hear good things, speak good things, feel good things, great, or cleanse my aura so that I'm in a good space of life, so they can approach people in a good way. So it's very simple, right? It's just words, but I'm when I say that I'm coming from my heart, right? That's why I wear this medallion today. My indigenous name is White Eagle spirit talker A while back, get Bucha, Guru, magic, Mohammad jig, which is a heart medicine the ego carries. That's why there's a heart on the ego. Yeah. So when you approach spirit, and you approach ceremony, and you do things, you should always come from an unconditional, loving space the sage, if it was to walk in, and I hear a lot of people say, Hey, I there's something in my home, you know, I've used some stages not working well. What did you do when you do it? You're either like, waving it around, like scared out of your mind, or did you approach it and say, you know, I know that you're here, and I send you unconditional love, and may that love guide you home into the space and place where you need to go. It's the words. And you could say that enigma. You could say that in indigenous language, you could say that in English, it doesn't matter what language you speak, it's the you speak, it's the words, the vibration, the sound, the intention, the heart and all. That's what brought everything into creation. In the universe was the voice. It's in the beginning there was, you know, the voice, right? It let there be light, you know. So did it say that with fear? Did it say with certainty and unconditional love and a knowingness of what it's creating. And we're all creators. We're all come from the same source. You know, no matter who we are, it's how we approach life and the people, our brothers and sisters that walk upon Earth, whether you're indigenous or non Indigenous, or, you know, whatever culture you are, we still have to approach all people in a good way.

Alex Ferrari 43:59
I wanted to ask you, the word indigenous is thrown around a lot, yes, in today's world, yes, um, native. It's another one that gets thrown around for people who don't understand what that means. I mean, I understand the definition, which is people of the land, yeah, people that were the oldest people who ever lived on a land, is that

Shawn Leonard 44:21
Kind of, kind of, I'd say first peoples,

Alex Ferrari 44:23
First Peoples, yeah. Okay, first First Nation. First people, first people, yeah. So like the aborigine are the first of the first people of that. And we have our, we have multiple tribes here in North America that are original people. That goes back. I mean, we're talking, if we're talking about indigenous I mean, we're going back 10,000 20,000 years. You know, it's not like you just showed up. No. So these are original people, original, at least bloodlines, right? Of original people who actually walked the earth before. Um, I guess before. I mean, so who are the indigenous of Europe?

Shawn Leonard 45:05
The indigenous people of Europe? That's a teaching I have, yeah. So tell me, it's because we're all indigenous from one place of the world or another, right? We all are, of course, we're indigenous people. Now I represent the indigenous people of North America Turtle Island, because that's where my ancestors have come from. And there's different, let's say way, way, way back there was different tribes of people, different races of people that lived upon Mother Earth, right? Sure, you know, and you know, I'm just one part of them, and I'm representing that aspect of culture from that space as First Peoples of Turtle Island. But there's first peoples from all over the world, and that's why, when people come to me thinking that they can't perform certain ceremonies in a certain way, like saying, Well, I can't smudge. Why can't you? You know the you know, you're telling me that the people of Europe didn't use frankincense or myrrh or, you know, or down the incense of India. You know, in different spaces, there's different medicines, and there's different medicines that may speak to your culture more, but it doesn't change the ceremony. The ceremony is the same. It's how you approach it. It's the love, the kindness, the compassion you have in your heart, that you put into your smudge, the words that you say that come from deep within you, and that connection to Source and creator is what gives everything power.

Alex Ferrari 46:19
So another question I've been I've talked about on the show before, but I think you'll have a very unique perspective on is ancestral karma. Yes, is something that was introduced to me, probably within the year, and I had never heard of it before, but it's something that in many readings I've gotten from my guests or friends of mine who do this kind of work, they would talk to me about ancestral, ancestral like things in your family's line, right, that you are holding on to, so, things that your your ancestors dealt with. So let's say alcoholism is a thing that your ancestors dealt with for, and it just follows, it follows the generations until somebody says enough and breaks that and like heals that, and so on. Can you talk a little bit about ancestral karma from your point of view?

Shawn Leonard 47:13
Right! You know, there's generational trauma, you know, depending on the generations that have been affected in indigenous culture, we always look back are seven generations before us, but also what we do today affects the seven generations that are moving after us. So we always have that perspective in mind that we go back talking to our ancestors seven generations now, when I meet people, and I've done sessions for many people, often I'll see that there's not only generational trauma, but also ancestral trauma that has, you know, been passed down through genetics, you know, within us, because I feel there's an aspect of who we are that is planned like I feel like we create our life, we do. We co create our life. But I'll tell you about a dream first, to give you a sense, because that's how, as an indigenous person, I teach many times, is, I had a dream a long time ago. Is on the other side the spare world, and I was in this room, and I was surrounded by a bunch of people wearing long white robes. And I thought, okay, how strange for me to be in the space. And I was on there was, like rows, maybe about five rows. And there were, there wasn't very many people there. There was one man standing in the front, and he was teaching, and he looked at me. He goes, Are you supposed to be here? I think I don't know where the hell I am. I said, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here or not. The guy beside me, who can't quite make out, starts talking to him and says, sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher. And he goes, Yeah, apparently you're supposed to be here. I'm like, I guess whatever he said, I'm like, and he goes, You know, I'm going to talk today about DNA in the human genetics, and how you know each one, each person living upon the world, has a plan for life. And you know your genetics written in the code of your DNA. You know, you'll have your eye color, your skin color, you'll have all this. You'll you're predisposed to a heart condition. You know, because of your genetics, it's written in your code of your DNA itself. But he says there's all this stuff they call junk DNA. Yeah, right. It's not really junk, just we don't know how to understand it, or it doesn't make sense to us. But there's a, there's a code in there about your option, lines, your lessons, everything that you're going to face in life is written in there. You just, we don't know how to read it yet. And I was like, wow. Okay, so he takes me outside, and he touches something like a plant, and he says, you might not know this, but even this plant has a purpose. And it was, it was one plant in a rock quarry, and he had a little device, like a cell phone, and he showed it to me, and it showed me that its parents were this. It was learning this. It would live this long. It would go through this things, through life. And this was his, his goal and His purpose for being here. I. I'm like, You're telling me this plan has a purpose and has a reason for being here, because everything does. There's nothing that doesn't have a purpose. And then I woke up, and so I meet people, especially because I have a TV show in Canada called Spirit talk. And the show, I go to different indigenous communities, and I meet many indigenous elders. I learn about traditional teachings and culture aspects with each and in indigenous culture, we have reciprocal type of approach to things, where you give something to get something. So I would give sessions to people in the communities I would go to, and in turn, I would get to meet elders and learn from the knowledge from different elders. That's amazing, right? But in doing this, you know, I've done season five. Season Five comes out in Canada and in Maine on eptn, but I would meet people that things would have happened to not only them, but to their grandma, to their great grandma. And it could be, you call it generational trauma. Could be an alcoholism that they were predisposed to. It could be abuse, physical, sexual, mental that they would be facing. And so even though their ancestors, their you know, their mom, their father, you know, other people had faced these things. They were facing it too,

Alex Ferrari 51:25
Because those ancestors couldn't

Shawn Leonard 51:27
They didn't break the cycle. They didn't heal it. They didn't heal it. They didn't move through it. They didn't move beyond it. So I would empower people, because with the way I approach sessions, you know, I connect to people in the spirit world. But if I, you know, spirit often takes me to places where you struggle, where you're hurting, where you suffer, where you're stuck in life in some way. It's not to, you know, pick a sore spot just for the sake of being right, because this is where you need to heal. This is where you need to move through. This is where you need to get better from.

Alex Ferrari 51:56
One thing I've heard, and I'm going to ask you a question about this with indigenous people, when an Ascended Master finally finds enlightenment in this lifetime and in their last in their lifetime, that general, general relation generationally, it ripples, yeah, seven generations forward center. It's literally said that and change the past. It ripples seven generations forward and seven generations ahead of all the souls that are attached to their line, generationally gets cleaned out all the traumas. It's like a gift that that soul gives their whole line, their lineage, their lineage, because they finally got to the ultimate healing, the ultimate understanding of We are the truth define, you know, the Neo right? You know that kind of thing, the Buddha, Buddha consciousness, Christ consciousness. And it ripples. Is that something that you've heard that has

Shawn Leonard 52:56
Ascended master consciousness, of sorts? Yes, yeah, you know, I feel there's maybe some truth to that, and maybe some because I feel like we all have a purpose, like you can help change the future generations by the way you approach life. And if they've they're your offspring, or your people that are coming after you. They they will actually, what I do in my life will help my children. Yes, right? Will help my children, because they're they will learn from my experience. But, you know, because our genetics are connected. And there's science to this too. I can't find the right word for it right off hand, but there's science. But it's, you wouldn't know where things are connected, even though they're non connected.

Alex Ferrari 53:34
Oh, that's quantum physics. It is quantum physics. Yeah. It's, oh, God, I forgot the action at a distance. Type of, yeah, yeah. Like, if you, if you affect a cell here, and it's 5000 miles away, it moves the same way, right? It's connected, because we're all connected by the quantum.

Shawn Leonard 53:50
So, there is science to this, right? There absolutely is science to this. I'm more in the spirit aspect, but I love science and the relationship. I almost feel like all that stuff's catching up till today. Yes, it has been how we've been thinking for like, 1000s of years. Right, correct. What I do will affect, you know, the people in my life who I'm generationally connected to, because we're all connected. You know, some of my genetics, some of my genes, my cells, are connected to some of the cells of my mother, connected to my children, to my uncles, to people, my ancestors. So the work I'm doing can actually shift and change. You know, the future generations moving forward of my family.

Alex Ferrari 54:27
Is there any stories of indigenous people or indigenous souls throughout history? And I guess that's really weird, because there's so many different tribes. But that found enlightenment, a Bucha of indigenous, or a Christ of indigenous, that there's like this legend of a of a soul that found the elder of the elders.

Shawn Leonard 54:50
Yeah, I would say in indigenous culture, there was, I mean, considering, I mean, my name is White Eagle spirit talker. But I have heard of other. The elders of the past. I mean, there's many, but I do know of one that other people may know of, called White Eagle, who was, you know, a chief, way back in the day that he was a person who reached enlightenment of sorts. And, you know, I think in the ascendant master conscious of people who are out there talking about at Senate masters, they do often speak about an indigenous person named White Eagle. Interesting. So I feel like in cross culture, I mean, they're not just indigenous people talking about this person. There's other cultures that recognize them. And I even know there was a medium from Europe named Grace Cook who founded the White Eagle thing, and just because she had a spirit guide named White Eagle, who was an indigenous person that, you know, crossed many, you know, lifetimes, and it achieved, like this kind of knowing or Ascended Master consciousness. So I feel like they, you know, whether our incest, because they're all our ancestors, we're all connected, right? There's no you know us and them, there's just us that I feel like that, that energy of that person who come into life in the past is still very connected to many people today. And I think way to go would be the person that I would say probably best represents that today.

Alex Ferrari 56:14
And there's probably many others as well, but that's one that popped off, yes, for me, that's the one I would know offhand, yeah, yeah. Because there's 1000s of them. There's 1000s of them.

Shawn Leonard 56:18
If I was to say there was another one. He was even an actor as a Chief Dan George, you know, very wise spiritual man who ended up on TV and films and different stuff. And he'd always appear as the wise elder fellow, but very prophetic. I, and, you know, actually filming season five of spirit talker. I went to BC, to British Columbia, Canada, and I made a connection to him. For one of his family members, I would say he was pretty ascended to me.

Alex Ferrari 56:50
You feel the energy of the souls that come through you.

Shawn Leonard 56:53
Yes, absolutely, you feel them. I mean, we all feel them. I mean, when you think about connect to certain people, certain people you speak to or connect to, you can sense who they are in the bigger picture than just the ego of one life that they lived.

Alex Ferrari 57:04
Oh, yeah. I mean, so I would say, because of all the channels I've had on the show, and, you know, Sarah, right? And those kind of people who come in, and, you know, I've had Bucha come through. I've had Jesus come through. I've had Babaji, Yogananda, these kind of souls, you've the energy you feel in the room. You just feel it. And that's from this point of view, right? I can only imagine, from your point of view, of like, when something comes in, you're like, oh, this. This has a different flavor to it, right?

Shawn Leonard 57:28
I mean, I I can't say I've heard from too many, sure, ascended masters, but I would say I've heard from Joshua or Jesus once, probably the most profound person I've ever heard, oh Yeshua, yeah, because I heard his voice, yeah. And I was going through a tough time in my life. It was, it was I was going through, I was going through a divorce, and, you know, like me and my kids were having some issues, and it was tough. I'm human still. I'm going through the human condition, right? Sometimes you have to go through tough things and learn to grow and beyond that. But he, he spoke to me, and I was just, I was laying in bed, and I was sleeping, and I heard somebody call my name Shawn. And I'm like, thought it was a little crazy for a minute. It's like, I'm sure I heard somebody just call my name Shawn. I'm like, Yeah, Shawn, you do not have a bad family. You have a good family. All he said, and I thought about it and I cried. It was so impactful. One sentence of wisdom that he had given me was so profound, I'll never forget it. And it was just the kindness, the compassion, the love, the peace that I felt in that word was so intense I understand why people would follow that man. Oh, I if I was in 2000 years ago and I I was walking down the street and I saw that man speak, I would have probably dropped all my shit and followed the guy too. So I mean, I think, you know the ideology and the religious, you know stuff around him. I think he's probably like the farthest from maybe what we made him out to be, in some sense.

Alex Ferrari 59:13
But like Yogananda said, Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross, but his teachings have been crucified for the last 2000 years. There you go. And it's one of the most beautiful quotes, because it's true. I mean, we were talking about it earlier, like no one ever leaves Christianity because of Christ or his teachings. You're right. It's all the other crap that was piled on after he left.

Shawn Leonard 59:33
But I feel inspired by that man in my own life. And he was an indigenous person of, you know, Jewish descent. You know, he was still indigenous of his culture and a teacher. There's many Ascended Masters, I think, that we could align with, if we chose. But between White Eagle and Joshua, those are probably two that I felt I've heard in my life.

Alex Ferrari 59:53
So we've kind of mentioned, you were mentioning about the DNA, that things were written in our DNA, as far as our what we're going to deal. With in this life, or challenges or benefits or things like that. And I've always said, I've always thought this myself, is that you know this, this is a perfect it's absolutely perfect vehicle for your journey in life, whether it be sickly, whether it be super strong, whether it be gorgeous beyond all recognition, or ugly in the terms of people, the way they look at you, right, deformed, or whatever it is, it is a perfect vehicle for what you're supposed to do in this life. Absolutely, there's there's people. So if you're a if you're born with an amazing beauty, and I'm sure you've met these people, Oh, of course, these, these people. When you and my wife, my wife as well, they are to us, but, but when you like, I worked in Hollywood, so I met a lot of big movie stars and and celebrities and stuff. And when you see them in person, there's something like, Oh, Jesus, there's, they're stunning, like, men women, like, there's just something about them on a physical standpoint that you can't even explain. Then, many times they open their mouth, but no, but, but, but on a just on a physical standpoint, the stunning, the beauty of it, without that, without those genetics, they don't experience the life that they do. A Tom Cruise or a Brad Pitt has an experience that you and I in this lifetime will never understand, right? We will never understand that's okay, and that's fine. That's fine, you know, and you will also see the beauty of someone who has autism, and he's teaching his family, he's teaching everyone he touches because they're generally happy. They're generally the happiest and the most loving and so pure, and they are going through their journey and affecting people. So everyone's got a different path. It doesn't have to one's better than the other? No, of course, not, yeah, but it's so but without the genetics, they don't have the life that they have, right? Without the genetics, they don't have the life if you're not born, you know, to a certain parent, to a certain thing, you know, I was, I was born my parents, one of my parents, was very creative. Hence, that kind of spilled off on me, right, you know? And I've taken it to another place from where they took it, right? And I hope my kids do bigger and better things, right, whatever I give them. But without that, without that, without that genetic, that story inside of you, you don't have the life. So this is a long question, so I'll get to it now my question is the soul blueprint or the soul contract? From your point of view, how do you perceive those and how? What's your understanding of the soul blueprint or the soul contract?

Shawn Leonard 1:02:50
Well, I think we, we obviously have lived many lifetimes, and not just upon this world itself.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:56
Is that, is that something indigenous, as far as like the many lifetime idea? Yes, because the West, and the European is where the one.

Shawn Leonard 1:03:02
We have teachings in indigenous culture. We call it, you know, when we look at the Milky Way, and like, I have an Oracle Card that called wisdom the elders. And there's an art piece in there that is done by Tracy metallic, who is an indigenous artist. And you'll see it where there's a couple people pointing up with the Milky Way. And we call it the spirit road, because when we look up in the Milky Way, when we feel our light, because those light, you know, we're star people. We're made from the stars. We were like, literally, we're made from the stars that one day, you know, in all the stars out in the universe, because we're all connected, right? That are we could choose another lifetime within this world, or we could choose another lifetime in one of the other many worlds that are out in the universe, especially within the Milky Way. That's why we see it as a spirit road, because our spirits have to make a choice when we transcend, or, you know, from this form to our other form eventually, like we didn't start here, either we're not from earth. I mean, if you look back at human evolution, like, how many hundreds of 1000s of years ago? Let's go back 250,000 years. How many people were walking around the Earth? Maybe 100,

Alex Ferrari 1:04:14
Probably, yeah, maybe a few 1000, maybe a few 1000. And also, that's homo sapien, yes, that's not Neanderthal. That's right? Other, other, our cousins, right? Our relatives, our relatives, our different relatives that were offspring.

Shawn Leonard 1:04:27
How many people are living upon the world now? Oh, God, billions, right. Where did we come from? Did we originate here? No, we didn't. We didn't originate here. We've originated from other stars prior to this lifetime. And I don't know how many lifetimes we've lived, I just don't know, but I'm sure it's a lot. I know of some that I've lived in this world, but I also have a memory of when I came here, like about 20 some 1000 years ago, which my life's a little weird. I know things that I shouldn't know, that people, maybe other people, do. Do? I'm sure there is people out in the world that know things like that for themselves, but I've known when I've I've shown up here. Does it mean that I was not connected to my ancestors? Maybe we all came at once. Who knows? Maybe we try, we travel as soul family, Soul tribes.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:15
Well, do you believe, though, that let's say you're, you're obviously an indigenous person in this life, in another life, you're another. You know you're well, we'll be indigenous from somewhere. Yeah, you'll be African, or, yeah, European, or you'll be somewhere else. Doesn't mean you have to be like indigenous, like from North America, exactly. You're North American, indigenous. No, the last five, 500 lifestyles,

Shawn Leonard 1:05:35
I lived a lifetime in Egypt. I remember a lifetime way back when I was regressed through regression hypnosis, where I was a sun god worshiper. I mean, hence my connection this lifetime, to grandfather sun. I even have a teaching on he hosts called the four sacred fires, which is about that first sacred light from which we're all created, from which is grandfather sun. And not just this sun, but all the suns, because, again, they're all all connected, right? So what we do in this one affects the universe. Why do you think other star beings and other people are so interested in what we're doing here? Is because what we do here affects the whole we're all connected in a way that we don't understand, way bigger than we understand. I'm hoping that one day we will, at some point, we'll start to deeply, more deeply, understand it in a greater way. And I'm sure we will. We're headed that way. We definitely hit it that way. But you know, I I've lived many lifetimes, one of them in France, where I remember once at the funny one that I remember there was progress. I was a cleaning Lane in England. Once hated that life.

Don't think I ever showed up as a woman to get either tough life. I'll tell you that. But you know, I remember one in Egypt, where was the sun god ship, where ship, where I was, one in in southern France, in the 1200s where I was just a, like, a peasant farmer, fellow, sure, you know, I wasn't like anything like in anybody important, or anything like that. But it was, it was a really cool experience, from what I remember. And actually went to France to kind of explore that in like, 2004 just to because, I mean, even though I had the experience, and I'll tell you this, like, kind of very quickly, briefly, but way back when, when I was like, be stepping into my spirituality more in the year 2000 2004 Right? That I wanted to understand, like other lifetimes. So I went to this guy. His name was Ian, and he did regression hypnosis, and he did a group session. So I went to this group session with with my ex wife, and we went together, and there was maybe 30 people there. And during the regression, you know, all he said, through hypnosis, just go to a place you feel comfortable. Could be a field, could be forest, could be an ocean, wherever it is. Just allow yourself to go next. You know, I'm in southern France in the 1200s we got a, like, dirty old white shirt on. I'm a rake in my hand. There's a field to look behind me. There's a castle up behind me and, and anyway, I see this guy in the right, the right of me in this little blacksmith shop, hammering away, blacksmith, you know, blacksmith stuff like horseshoes. And, you know, who knows, but and I looked at him, and it was a weird thing that even though, when I looked over there, I could feel it was my father and my father from this lifetime, and he didn't look like how he did, you know, in this life, but I knew it was him. I just knew him on a soul level. I could see it in his eyes, and I knew him. And then I looked at the hill, and there was like another hill that was far away, probably a few miles. And it was like this switch back road that was coming down. This lady on a white horse rode down this hill, and she was bare back and had long blonde hair past her, her bomb, and she had seen somebody very clean and important, and I want she rides up to me, and I'm like, doing my thing in the field, and she starts, like, galloping around me in the field. I'm like, Oh, great, I got some princess. And I'm thinking, I must be making this up, because this is ridiculous, right? That she's riding around on me and teasing me and laughing. And I'm like, if I look at her, right, somehow I'm gonna end up dying. That's what I'm thinking in my head. And then the guy says, It's time to come back to this room. And I knew it was some type of Christian too, but I didn't feel Catholic. And I thought, How is there even Christians in the 1200s that weren't Catholic,

Alex Ferrari 1:09:14
Right and hadn't spawned off yet,

Shawn Leonard 1:09:16
Right! Like, how does that even happen, right? And so we get up, me and my wife, we go home, and she wants to talk about what she saw. And I got, I'm not really, you know, I think I made up everything. It was too strange. She goes, Well, you know, so we slept on it. We woke up, and she goes, I gotta tell you what I saw. It's been, I've been thinking about it all night. She goes, You know, she's always like in France in the 1200s I was like a princess, and I was at this castle, and I think you were in my past life, because you were like some dirty farmer boy in a field, and I rode up to you, was riding around you and teasing you, and I'm like, she goes, What did you see? I said, I saw something freaking thing. So I called everybody in the class to find out if they had like, a similar experience, and nobody did. Yeah. So I even went to France in 2004 to kind of explore this even further with her. And we went, we found out about a group of Christians called the Cathars. And there were new age thinking Christian people that were Gnostics. Oh, the Gnostics, yes, that were existing in southern France in the 1200s and anyway, the Catholic Church declared a crusade against them, of course, and annihilated 200,000 people. Yeah, in the 1200s Yeah. He called them all heretics because they were, I mean, to them, they were heretics, right? But I know I was one of those people. And so I went to these castles because I knew I saw a castle, and they were called Cathars. So how many Cathar so caith castles could exist in the 1200s and there was a few. So I went to the mall hoping to find something, and I start walking around. None of them quite looked right. And on the second last day we were there, we went to this one Castle called puiver. Excuse me, I get to puy ver and the castle doesn't look right, but I walk up and there's one guy working there with a little kiosk, and he's selling, like, you know, books, little DVDs and such. And I tell him the story, because I know who you're talking about, because I'm actually history major. This is my summer job, and he's and he spoke pretty good English, considering we're in France, right? Because they're used there's a whole legend of a lady in white, a princess of Aragona, Spain, and she in the legend, he says, because this was predominantly a farming community, he said, the castle doesn't look the same, because it's been rebuilt like seven times since that time, and we even fixed it up like in the, you know, mid 1900s so the tours could come. And he said, but there was a princess of Aragon of Aragon of Spain who would come to this castle to hear the troubadours, the traveling musicians, the poets. And she would come up from Aragon and hear them. But one year this big field, he says, out here, where we are flooded and the troubadours couldn't come. So she used to go down by this rock, by the river, by the water, and eventually she disappeared. And nobody knows what happened to her. She never came back. So we there's a legend that she somehow lost her life or fell in the water and and the water subsided, and then all the troubadours came back. So she lost her life to bring back the troubadours. But she had long blonde hair, she rode a white horse. She had, you know, white dress. And they, you know, I'm like, you know, this is amazing. So anyway, we get looking around, and I walk down to the field, and there's a clearing, and I could tell where there's old remnants of buildings. And he goes, I, you know, this used to be little villages. I could see it like I was standing there, and I saw the the hill that she would have rode down, and there was still an old road. He goes, That's the old road from Spain there. And it was just like, it was surreal. That's amazing. And I knew I was there before. I knew I lived there before. It was just it was awesome. Because, you know, any doubt, you know, because, I mean, I always had doubt. I'm always one of those people that have to kind of know for sure. And so I explore. I want to go deeper. I want I want to research more. So I had to go there to find out, and I found out. And, you know, it was just amazing, because then I know there's so much more to us than just this one lifetime that I'm living. We're divorced Now, mind you, maybe we weren't meant to be together a whole life, and maybe not even in that one, right, right? But different lessons, different things that, you know, I'm obviously not a farmer in this life, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:13:23
So Shawn, I wanted to ask you, we were talking earlier about this, this shift in humanity right now that's happening. I'm sure you felt it more than most, in regards to the consciousness of of humanity as a collective, how we are opening ourselves up to these conversations, this kind of stuff, this book, 30 years ago sits in the back of an occult section somewhere, right? And it's it's not out there, and it's not as in. These conversations aren't as accepted as they would have once been, right? Would not have one spin. So is there anything in the indigenous from in the indigenous point of view of kind of like a prediction of where we're going. And because I got to believe a lot of this stuff was kind of written in the stars, if you will, or or spoken about, like there will be this time where humanity will shift. And we've seen it. We all seen it, even in our lifetime. We've seen the shift in humanity, being more open to things, not only the technology and all that stuff, but just the spirituality, seems to shift. Like when you and I were growing up, the Vatican was you couldn't use it. Was perfect, yeah, nothing. It was just infallible, right? Not so much. Today, you know, not so much. There's been a couple stories of things that happened, so things are shifting. I'd love to hear your point of view of where you think humanity is right now, where we're going in this next year and maybe in the next decade or so, or generally, this broader, broader paintbrush.

Shawn Leonard 1:14:57
Well, I mean, when I was young, even though it was where. Catholic, right? You know, indigenous people. I mean, we had, unfortunately, we lost who we were, right? A lot of it was lost. But I think everybody's lost who we are. And thanks to technology and the ascension of different spirits that have stepped into the world at this time, and you know, that have laid the foundation even some of the people that have come before us, like Wayne Dyer and some other great speakers and teachers and authors, etc, you know, this is a progression, and I think because of technology. I mean, we wouldn't be here today, correct, if we didn't have the technology. But because everything is being sped up in technology, our spirit has to kind of race to kind of get there as well, to balance, because there has to be balance. And because we're advancing so fast in one way, we have to advance really fast in another as well. So I think a lot of spirits like yourself and all the guests that you have on the show have been inspired to move into this area of life right now to help bring awareness and understanding greater than you know, than what we've had in the past. Because, I mean, for so long, you know, it was just Woo, woo, right? Now, there's new age, right? And, you know, you have quantum physics that says you know, everything that you know spirituality has been saying for a long, long time, right? You know? And then they even have quantum physics say things are even connected, you know, if you would have said that before, it would have been new age, but now it's science. Funny how that works. So I, you know, I think it's, it's a time for us to kind of step in, to move because, I mean, the the imbalance within the world, it's, it's, it's more prevalent now than it ever has been. I mean, other than World War One, World Two. I mean, we're literally on the cusp of, like, having another world war. Oh, yeah, you know. And if we don't shift and change our perspectives, and I think things are, you know, we need to find balance in some parts of the world, like, you know, maybe Canada, United States and Europe are moving into this, you know, raised conscious and awareness, let's say, and maybe even India, in some parts of India and some other places. And I'm sure there's many places in the world that are like that, but you know, there's a lot of oppression. And one day, I think it'd be nice if the world wasn't oppressed in any way. And I think that instead of being separate nations, you know, we become the human nation. And you know, we had teachings in indigenous culture. We have the medicine wheel, which, I'm not sure if you're familiar Well, the Medicine Wheel is a circle because we're all in a circle, but in the circle there's different colors, right? You have in the east, which is yellow for the rising sun, but also even could represent the, you know, the yellow, the Asian people of the world. And you go south and you have black, or you have the red, the red people, the red earth people. So people who are indigenous of are more connected to their culture in that way. You go west and you have, so I forget. I'm going to start over, okay, because we have yellow, red, black, white. That's why That's I forgot. I'm on the spot here. So, you know, in indigenous culture, we have the medicine wheel. So in the medicine wheel, it's a circle which represents all people the world and the different directions, because there's the four directions of Mother Earth. But on the east, we have the color yellow, which represents, you know, the rising sun, and perhaps even the Asian people of the world. And then you have down south, which represents the red people, right in the southern part of the world. But you also in the West, where the sun sets the darkness and the black, where the sun goes down the last and also the black skinned people of the world. And then we have white of the North, right, which represents the Caucasian people of the world. But you can't have a circle without all those colors in it. I mean, it's one circle. If you take out one, or you take out this or that. I mean, it's not whole or complete. So there's in, you know, Mother Earth, you know there's oppression around the whole world, but we have to find a way to, kind of like, shift the conscious of the world, not just of our own little space and place, whether it's just Canada, United States, what have you, but if we change and we show other parts of the world with technology now, which is amazing, because, I mean, China is trying to and nothing against Chinese People. It's just the oppression of government and such right that it's, it's, you know, they're going to start watching YouTube and other things, and it's going to help them think different and broader. And you know, is that not going to have effect on their people in time? It will? Will they be always oppressed? No, they won't. And I think, you know, the same with Iraq, Iran, or other places that you know maybe struck struggle with oppression, right? Or Kuwait or and nothing against the people. I just feel like it's government structures that have been in control, and in the past, it's been it's been religion and government, and now it's us, the people, that have power, and we have to remember. That we are. We are the world. We are a human nation together on one circle, one hoop of life. And what we do to help change us in the people that we love, we care about, will ripple out into that, that that globe, that which we all live upon. You know,

Alex Ferrari 1:20:18
Is there anything in the in the in the oral, the oral traditions in indigenous from your line, or that you have heard of that is similar to like, like the Mayan calendar, which was the 2012 was a big, big deal. Is there anything like that? Not specifically a calendar, a date, but is there anything like this? Will be the time of this. This will be the time of this.

Shawn Leonard 1:20:42
Not that I know of, but what I would say is that, you know, we're, I mean, we're always taught to live in the moment, okay, in the present, right? And it doesn't mean that what we do today, you know what, what you do affects the seven generations. So our teachings all revolve around what we do today can help our the future, seven generations beyond us, because we want to have a healthy, sustainable place and world for them to be upon. Do I feel like there's change coming within the world? I feel like it's like more rapid than ever before. And I also feel that, you know, there's big stuff coming for humanity, and you don't say stuff, what do you mean? Well, I mean, it's hard. I don't want to get into too much. I don't want to scare people either. Because, I mean, with wars and things like that, like I said, we were on the we're, I'm swear, we were on the brink of nuclear war.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:32
Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, this, though, like, nothing that you're saying here is shocking, yeah, you know it's, it's not, it's, it's, we could all see the tea leaves, yeah, we could all see it. We could all see the economy. We could see food. It's gonna happen again. Yeah, all these institutions, is something's gonna happen.

Shawn Leonard 1:21:48
I if I was to give you a prediction potentially, and I don't wanna scare anybody out in the world, because that's not my intention. For being here is to help enlighten people. I feel potentially, we might be facing a couple other nuclear attacks on the future down the road,

Alex Ferrari 1:22:03
Not world ending, but just enough, no, just enough to scare the living hell out of everybody

Shawn Leonard 1:22:06
No. But history repeats itself. Yeah, it does over and over, until we learn the lesson, just like a crime within ourselves, right? You know, there was, there was two bombs that went off in the past. There probably two again at some point where, I don't know and but I don't think we're meant to know. I don't think it's like I can go and just stop somebody from doing this. It's not, you know, if there's a plan for Earth, and there's a plan for Earth, that I feel like something like that's going to have to take place before we realize, hey, we can't do this to ourselves.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:37
We need something to happen to just say enough's enough. Yeah, we can't be boring, but without the counter energy, right? You can't without the opposite, the polarity, the duality. Yeah, you can't learn. You need to have,

Shawn Leonard 1:22:53
You need to have negative things that you fight your struggle or strife.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:55
You need Darth Vader, yeah, you do without Darth Vader, Luke, can't be Luke,

Shawn Leonard 1:23:00
I don't know I've seen. I'm gonna tell you things I've seen sure, like I've I've connected to other beings in other worlds.

Alex Ferrari 1:23:09
When you say other worlds, are you talking about physical other physical universes?

Shawn Leonard 1:23:12
No other worlds, realm, other planets. Other planets got it like other beings on another other world, like, I've connected to two of them. One was scared to show me anything, because they didn't want humanity to know where the hell they are at all. Wow. They're terrified of humanity. They were terrified of us because of what we can do. Because now what we could do can affect them where they live. We could hurt them where they are without them maybe knowing that we are going to do it. So there's this fear from one of the nations that I connected to that, you know, because humanity is scary, we have, you know, that's why I feel like there's so many star beings and star people coming here right now, and they may be like, hopefully interjecting in some way to kind of help us in a small way. I think they're introducing themselves to us a little bit now, and I think it's going to become more apparent down the road, and we'll really know, I even feel like that they're going to make an announcement the next few years that they know of another world where there's beings, or that they're here or something. Well, no, they know of another world. I think it's Proxima b that they've gotten a signal from. And not only did I feel like that, James Webb has gotten a biochemical of life, and they have not announced it. Why? I mean, well, it's probably good, because there could be some person in some other world that's off balance that decides to drive a proverbial car bomb off because they're the devil. Do you know what I mean? That's how we've been thinking here for so long that we have to shift our thinking. Because if we're going to move further and grow deeper, beyond this world itself, and embrace other beings from other worlds. We have to find balance here first, because the next evolution of humanity is beyond our world, and we're not ready for it. No, not now. We're not, we're not ready for we have to, you know, through the work that all of us are doing to kind of help balance this out is that when we do step out into the. Next realm in the next seven generations, because I'm telling you the next seven generations, we will be there. We will be going to other worlds.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:06
It's just logical what we've done in 100 years,

Shawn Leonard 1:25:10
Right! We'll be, we will be like, and I mean, what has humanity done in the past? Like? If you look at humanity in the history, repeating itself, sailed ships from Europe to what they thought was a new world, or they're, you know, the people, and conquer them like, is that going to be the plan for the next world? Have we learned from what we've done, what has happened or occurred the occurred the first time? You know, we need to learn from these things that have happened in the past, and if not, they will repeat. Just like I said, potentially there's a, there's there could be, like, two nukes that go off in the world down the road, because we didn't learn from the first one, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:25:48
I mean, those two first, those first two bombs that got dropped, they they definitely rippled. They did. They're still, we still feel the ripples. Yeah. I mean, they basically brought the rise of North America, of the United States to be the dominant power in the world, which there's nowhere in history, nowhere, nowhere. Is it written that that's going to stay forever, right?

Shawn Leonard 1:26:13
Like recently, in the last four months, I had another being connect to me, who I mean, and I'm going to tell you, I'm not really into the alien stuff as much. But do I believe there's star people and star beings that connect to us? Yes, yeah. But there was one guy who was blue, and I think he said he was a Lemurian, connected to me. He didn't tell me his name. I saw his world. He took me there. I saw it. I saw how they live and how they and they and it feel like they lived on other star systems, more than just their one and they even told me the history of what they went through and why they had to live in different worlds themselves because of, you know, things that they faced in the past amongst their, you know, different beings as well. But they they're the world that I saw, that they live in. If this is, you know, where we're rent to go something, because we're going to move out into the universe and live in different worlds. And live in different worlds, in within the Milky Way, like physically, then we need to learn how to live in harmony and balance, and not only that, but to love the world from which we live upon. And that's one teaching that indigenous people have been trying to share for a long time, right? Is like how you know Mother Earth caring for her, that you know the animal nation, you know the plant nation, you know all the all the nations of Mother Earth herself, that we have to learn how to not take more than we need.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:33
It seems like there's a lot of that going around right now. I saw a documentary The other day on Netflix about, um, just people buying stuff constantly, yeah, the amount of garbage that is being produced on a daily basis, the amount of plastic, the amount of just, just garbage, just, you know, clothes, you know, things aren't being built to last forever. They're built to last for a season because they need more money and they want to keep building it, and they're not thinking about what's going to happen to the planet. They don't think about our food supply, they don't think about animal welfare, they don't think about our ecosystems. They don't think about any of that stuff, because it's all about the dollar dollar.

Shawn Leonard 1:28:13
I think there's a Cherokee proverb that says Like when we fished out the last fish out of the ocean and cut down the last tree where we realize that we can't eat money.

Alex Ferrari 1:28:25
Well, it's Easter Island. It's exactly what happened at Easter Island. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a perfect example of a culture that literally killed all its animals that were on the planet, on that little world of theirs the island, knocked down all the trees, you know there was, and they, they basically stopped. They destroyed all their natural resources. So it's a beautiful story about what will happen to us eventually. It's slow. We're plants, fairly big. It is for us. I mean, we still have a lot of people on that planet, but still fairly big. But it can't. We can't go this.

Shawn Leonard 1:29:03
No, it's, it's another 100 development, development, development. It's, you know, it's not sustainable for the growing population

Alex Ferrari 1:29:09
So something has to something has to happen for this.

Shawn Leonard 1:29:11
Well, we have to look at life differently. It does have to happen. We have to look at our perspective with on Mother Earth, like if we were fearful of maybe not being able to and I'm not saying this has to happen. I'm not putting it out there for somebody to make this happen or create because that's not my intention, sure, but I feel like we need to look at life and sustainability and really value what Mother Earth provides for us in relation to food, water and resources and care for Mother Earth in a much more greater and profound way. And I think from what I've seen in the world that I did get to visit with the person that had shown it to me, for it was pristine. The waters were clean, the forests were rich, and a lot of the trees they had there were similar to what we have here. It was just it was the world was bigger, and they had no. Roads. They had no need for roads. They could travel, you know, you know, without roads, like they had their ships to fly, wherever they needed to go, etc, they were harnessing the sun in different ways. It was, it was, I got a glimpse of what could be, of what a future balanced civilization could look like. And we're not on that path. And I think if they've evolved to that space, which I know they have, we can, we can too, but we have to shift and change. And we can't wait for our, you know, our universal brothers and sisters, to come down and scold us and spank her hand and say, Listen, this is you're doing it all wrong. We have to figure it out. And it takes people, good people, inspired people like you, like me, and other people that have come in to not only help us find out about what spirit is, but you know, understand who where we are and the value of that.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:53
Have you ever seen the movie The Abyss?

Shawn Leonard 1:30:56
The Abyss? I think I seen it was underwater.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:58
Yeah! The underwater one, yeah, with Ed Harris and Mary, Elizabeth Master, Antonio. It was written, directed by James Cameron. Okay, Avatar and Titanic so on. In that movie, the directors cut. I'm a filmmaker, so I'm sorry the directors cut, which was on laser disc. That's how old I am. Oh, yeah, they in that movie, they in that Director's Cut, which was cut by the studio, but James Cameron's original vision was that there were aliens underneath the water, right? And they were always watching us in the Director's Cut, there was a moment where the oceans literally giant tidal waves come, and they're coming towards every coast in the entire world. I mean, we're talking about tidal waves that you can't even understand how big they are, you know, like and life ending ones, and they're all coming without warning to every coast on the planet. And all of a sudden they just stop, and it just sits there, the wave, right? And it was a message from these star beings who lived under waters like, you're not the biggest boy on the block. You guys got to behave yourselves, right? We don't like and they were saying to Ed Harris, like the war, the famine, the explosions, it's like it needs to stop. So it was really, it's just a it's such a beautiful idea, and then the waves went back in. It was just a warning, like, Guys, yeah, play nice. You need to learn, right? If not, we're here, and at any moment, we could stop this right, just like that. It's really fascinating to think about that idea now, because we're getting to that we've been at that place we are, yeah, and we can't keep going this way.

Shawn Leonard 1:32:44
We can. So that's why we have to shift and change. That's why the world has to look at, you know, not that we're warring against each other, fighting over like land, like Russia, fighting in Ukraine over what, I don't know, what they're what are they? Funny, it's ego, but it's also for, you know, just because, you know, Mother, Russia would be greater like this is ridiculous as it is ego.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:03
It's pure ego. When you look at space and you look at the Earth, there are no lines, no there are no lines of nation. They are imaginary lines that we've been, that man has put together to separate ourselves,

Shawn Leonard 1:33:17
Maybe one day, maybe, maybe one day that we will get there maybe, you know, I hate to say this, like to sound like a, you know, weird kind of conspiracy person, maybe one world connection, of, like, government of some sort, would be good for all of us.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:34
Oh, yeah, like, yeah. Well, right now, no no, because right now there's way too much, you know, but I think they're in, I think what the like the United Nations were supposed to be with this kind of concept is good. The concept is there. We're just not there consciously. It's like trying to, it's like Christ coming down 2000 years ago and talking about the power of God is within you. You know, everything I can do you can do, right? You know, be kind to like these ideas were so far beyond the normal person at that time because the level of consciousness was so different, so lower, yeah, that they couldn't grab it. So that's where we are now, you know, but we are very fast,

Shawn Leonard 1:34:17
Yeah! And again, like, what's good about technology is even, I feel like even for the last probably 100 years, we've been mentally brainwashed of sorts, absolutely, with media in different ways. Yes, right. So now we there's people free speaking, people that can speak out into the world where it's not controlled, right, right? So that is where this big shift is starting to change, too, yeah, shows like this, right? Absolutely, shows like this, right? So before it was the news, and there's, like, instilling fear and all this, so it's really kind of like, oh my god, like, what should we do? And it's just, you know, nobody's less and less people are watching the news, and in modern day, the way

Alex Ferrari 1:34:55
Movies in Hollywood, right? It shows in Hollywood,

Shawn Leonard 1:34:57
It is, yeah, it's, it's, we're changing in that way where there. More of a platform of where we the people, are connected, and we have, we have our own voice, and what we use that voice for has enormous amounts of power. And so I you know, thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you for doing what you do out in the world. I know you told me the story about your spirit guide, guiding you with this. And I mean, it's definitely part of your your your path, your mission and your purpose for life. And thank you for accepting that. Thank because we do have free will, and what we need is more people accepting their power of what they can do to help shift and change the world for a greater, better space.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:35
It's, it's about changing your programming. You know, you have programming. I have programming of those first seven years of life that really, really in the operating system. Our operating system is really built in that time. And I think, like I've, I've said before, is like we spent the first seven years being programmed and the rest of our life trying to deprogram ourselves, to connect to different things. The fear I had when I was doing the show, when I launched it was programming, I had to break through that and have faith. I'm sure you have done that many times in your life. All of us do. But when the call comes, whatever that is, it doesn't have to be grandiose. When that call comes, you have to have the bravery, the courage to take the leap and understand that there will be someone there to catch you. There will be someone there to guide you and help you. Have to ask you this one last question, Sean, we've been talking a lot about spirit and spirit guide everything in the soul blueprint and other worlds and all this stuff for someone listening to this who is watched this whole thing and goes, these guys are absolutely nuts. This is insane. What are they talking about? You know, this is Woo, woo, craziness. What message would you have for someone who is completely just like because if someone has listened to this point of this conversation, they are conflicted because they are searching, but their program is telling them this is BS, yeah, and I find a lot of that in our comments, people who who will attack what we do, but like, why are you here? Like, there's things in the world that I don't agree with, but I don't go to their there and attack them. I don't need, I don't have the, you know, the need for that, whatever their belief is, their belief. That's the way I look at wherever they are there. But I love to hear if you if there was a message for that person who is, who is, says, this is all a bunch of malarkey, if I may, use a term, an old term, this is a bunch of BS, and it's not real. And how can this all be? What message would you have for that person?

Shawn Leonard 1:37:50
I would say, get out there and explore. Go out. And if you don't believe in ghosts, go to places where ghosts out and go start talking them, start take a recorder and just talk to them and see if they talk back to you, because the minute somebody does say something back to you, your whole life will change, because then you'll know that everything you think is invisible and not real becomes real, and it'll shift and change your life in a way that you'll go deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole, because you want to know more, because you want to know About more who you are, how it all connects together, and it'll open up something inside of you that is fun, it's exciting, it's joyful, it's, you know, it's amazing. Any fear associated with it. Put that all to the side. Let it all go, no matter what anybody tells you, especially when it comes to spirit, even with ghosts, even if they have egos, you know, just approach them with kindness, good, goodness, love, respect, you know, get out there and explore, read, learn, research things, you know, delve deeper. Not just listen, get out there and do it. When I wanted to understand things about spirits, I didn't just read a book. I went out there and said, I wonder if they're really real, if they're really there, and why are they there? I went out and explored, and then I learned a lot from that whole experience. If you're not sure if psychic ability is real, learn to become more psychic everybody. It's in us. It's innate within us. It's a natural part of progression and human evolution, not even human evolution. It's within all of the animal nation and plant nation within the world. It's connected. It's already there. It's just us remembering and re tapping into it. But we've got to try. You know, you know, it's like, and it's like people say they're in no offense, for people who think the world is flat, you know, because they have their belief system, and that's their belief system, and it's okay. I never knock anybody's belief system, because then I'm as bad as anyone else for saying, you know, that's crazy. That's wrong. I mean, that's your belief system. But maybe try going floating a balloon up with a camera on it, and see if you can see the curvature of the earth. Just give it a go and see what happens. You know, get. Went as big as you can and float it up there with a GoPro, or put a GPS tracker on it and see if you can find it after explore. Don't be fearful of exploring and trying to understand who we are in the big picture of Mother Earth herself and within the spirit world and within the universe.

Alex Ferrari 1:40:18
Beautifully said, sir. Beautifully said. Now I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests, sure, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Shawn Leonard 1:40:26
Being whatever brings you joy, just doing whatever brings you joy, just living in the moment of joyfulness your whole life is the best way I can answer that. So whatever that is for you, then that's what you're here to express. Do it with your whole heart and do it with full of joy.

Alex Ferrari 1:40:43
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Shawn, what advice would you give him?

Shawn Leonard 1:40:47
I would say, don't be scared. Don't be scared. There's nothing to be scared of.

Alex Ferrari 1:40:53
How do you define God or Source?

Shawn Leonard 1:40:55
If I was to define God, I would say, what isn't God? What what isn't the Great Spirit, the Creator? What isn't that? There's nothing that God is not

Alex Ferrari 1:41:10
Beautifully said. What is love?

Shawn Leonard 1:41:13
Same the same. I don't think we when we think about our lives on the other side, coming into this world and knowing the struggle and knowing the struggle and the hardships and the tough things that we're going to go through, whether it's the loss of a child, the loss of a parent or a spouse, or, you know, the mental illness that you might be taking on, you've done it for your own evolution of understanding and knowledge. You've chosen it, and you've done it from a place of unconditional love because you knowing, no matter what you take on in this life, that you know that one day you'll step back out of all this experience and see it from an unconditional, loving space.

Alex Ferrari 1:41:48
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Shawn Leonard 1:41:51
Whatever brings you joy, follow your bliss. As Joseph Campbell says, it's right, whatever is your joy bring it brings you joy in life, that's the ultimate purpose for each of us.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:00
And where can people find out more about you, the amazing work you're doing, and pick up a copy of your book, Spirit Talker

Shawn Leonard 1:42:04
Well, you can find Spirit Talker on Amazon. Hey House, it's it's a published book by Hey House working on my second book. Now. I also have an Oracle Card Deck called wisdom the elders, also published by Hey House publishing. You can find me on my website. Shawn, S, H, A, W, N, hyphen, middle line, if people don't know what hyphen is, Leonard, L, E, O, N, A, R, D.com, and if you sign up for my email list on my website, you'll get a free meditation, and I give five spiritual tips of developing your intuition and psych abilities as well.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:05
That's beautiful. Shawn, do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Shawn Leonard 1:42:14
Thank you. Thank you for being present today. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being who you are and showing up in this world and just being open up to listen to this conversation so thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:46
Shawn I appreciate you and everything you're doing to awaken this planet, my friend, thank you so much for being here. It's been such a pleasure talking to you, and thank you so much.

Shawn Leonard 1:42:53
Well, thank you.

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