Alex Ferrari 0:00
Societal programming, community programming that religious put into you when you're born, because when you were born, you were just a little girl.

Salima Adelstein 0:08
Our heart is like a mirror, and if we don't polish that mirror, we're going to have a distorted perception of our reality. And that's what I've learned in Sufism. We carry all this separation within us. I was so locked into my own head. When we talk about the evolution of the soul, it's evolving that human love into a divine love. I think every individual, whether they realize it or not, are searching for truth. Our human race is in that evolutionary process right now.

Alex Ferrari 1:06
Now, before we jump into this episode, if this conversation resonates with you, please, like subscribe and share this with whoever you feel that needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep bringing this information out into the world and helps us awaken this planet. Thank you. I like to welcome to the show. Salima Adelstein, how you doing Salima? Thank you so much for being here, my dear. I'm so excited to talk to you because I've never had a Sufi or anyone that understands Sufism on the show before, because it's kind of mysterious. It's even more mysterious than then. You know, there's obviously, there's Christian mystics, there's Jewish mystics, and obviously in Buddhism and Hinduism, there's a lot of mysticism as well, Yogic and and all of that. But Sufism is very interesting because I just don't know. I literally know, other than the dancing, that's all, that's all I really know about Sufism. I really haven't gone too deep in it so well, first and foremost, how did your journey begin into Sufism? What was the moment you kind of awakened to that that road, as opposed to so many others in the world?

Salima Adelstein 2:25
Well, I was meditating for 25 years, so I really wasn't looking for Sufism or anything else. I was perfectly content with my meditation practices. I was having beautiful experiences, and I had just come back from India. I had been studying with different gurus over there and spiritual healing. And I was teaching a workshop in New Mexico at the time, and a friend said, Hey, there's a Sufi master that's in town. I know you like meeting new people. Why don't you go over and see what he has to offer. So I was up for a good adventure. I went over, like you, I didn't know much about Sufism at the time, and I walked into this yard, and there were statues of Buddha and Ganesh, and that was the little that I knew. It was taking me a little bit by surprise, saying, gee, I didn't know that Sufism had anything to do with Buddha or Ganesh or any of these things that I'm seeing in this backyard. And I walked into the house and this, and I mean, huge, this huge man, about 220 pounds, greets me with this huge hug. And he says, My daughter, I'm so happy to see you. Well, I figured, gee, nice host of this house, right. Turns out that was the Sufi master. Wow. And I was, I really was blown away everything that I thought I knew about mysticism and how men treated women in a spiritual setting. After all, I just came back from India where everybody politely is Namaste. And here's just shattering in one moment, all my preconceived notions. It's like everything just blew apart in my in my internal being. And then he started to talk about the evolution of the soul and what happens in our soul as our soul reaches enlightenment and beyond. And he had me captivated at that point, and as I was watching him, I was noticing this absolutely brilliant light that was emanating from his being, and this absolutely embracing, pure love. It's like a divine love that was just emanating from his being. I don't know if you've ever had those moments where you say I want what they have. Yeah, and at that moment, that was my aha. I want what he has. And I got initiated into this Sufi path in that moment, not knowing anything, and he gives me the name Salima, and it means the one whose heart rests in the deep peace of God. Well, I had to laugh, Alex, because that was not the state of my soul at that moment in time. I was a rebel. I was an activist. If there was a good cause. I was out on the street protesting peace was the farthest thing from my being. I was a drama queen.

Alex Ferrari 5:50
Fair enough. Fair enough so.

Salima Adelstein 5:52
And he invited me to come and studied with him in Jerusalem while I was there, studying this ancient Sufi path and learning about the soul's evolution in the human body, I was so transformed that I found that inner peace within me. I found all the places of separation within my own body and within my own heart that led me to a unity and a wholeness and a oneness that I never experienced before. So when I came back to the United States, I wanted to share it with everybody. You've got to experience this. So I set up a little spiritual retreat in my at the time, I had a little studio, and my little studio and invited anybody who was curious to come and learn about this. And that was the start of what now is a university. What now is many Sufi communities all over the United States and the world.

Alex Ferrari 7:02
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So for everybody who doesn't know what Sufism is, can you tell us a little bit about what Sufism is?

Salima Adelstein 7:10
Sufism is a direct experience with the Most High, with God. So we can talk about it. We can lecture about it, but what Sufi does is give you an actual direct experience of that connection with the God within you and the God outside of you. It's a path of love that opens up all the channels, if you will, within you that don't know love, to experience love. It allows your soul to break out of what I would call the prison of your ego and all your ego limitations into the unlimited possibility of what the jewels and the treasures of who you are and how to bring that into life. Here in this world, we say, in Sufism, die before you die. It's kind of a strange expression, but what we really mean when we say that is give yourself an experience to understand both the transcendental nature of the universe, but also the omnipresence of God in everything, and to understand my age old questions, who am I? What am I doing here? What is this world all about, and what is my purpose in it

Alex Ferrari 8:42
To my understanding Sufism is the kind of mystic arm of Islam. Is that correct?

Salima Adelstein 8:49
That is correct. But it also goes beyond Islam, right to the beginning of creation, when God created the human being, and when God said to all the souls, Am I not your Lord? And we answered, Yes, and God placed his light inside every single human being. And that's really the beginning of Sufism. It was brought to awakening through Islam, but in each each era of humanity, there were different messengers, avatars, prophets, that came carry the same message. It was an opportunity for the human soul to awaken to its divinity, to its angelic soul.

Alex Ferrari 9:43
What I find fascinating in my work is that I I interview people from every walk of life, like yourself, and talk to Christians and Buddhists and Hindus and yogis and masters and all this kind of stuff. And I just keep realizing that everyone. Is going to the same place. It's just a different it's just a different flavor of the message. Jesus said it, Buddha said it, you know, Mohammed said it, all, of, all, of,

Salima Adelstein 10:12
All roads lead to the one,

Alex Ferrari 10:15
All roads, you know, it's just like, as the old proverb says, is we're all seeing a different part of the of the elephant, you know, and we're all just, but we're all moving in the same, the same direction. So would this be kind of like, and I'm just trying to wrap my head and also give examples for people to chronic grasp in the Jewish religion, it's the Kabbalah. Is that the mystic aspect of Judaism. Am I wrong with that? Or am I correct?

Salima Adelstein 10:43
No, that is, and I grew up in a Jewish tradition, so this was quite a, if you will, a shock to my family.

Alex Ferrari 10:54
How'd that go? How'd that conversation go, Mom, Dad, sit down.

Salima Adelstein 10:59
It went better when I told then, when I was a teenager, and I told them that I met Jesus on the beach.

Alex Ferrari 11:07
Well, there's that that's,

Salima Adelstein 11:10
I think that was a little bit more shocking to them.

Alex Ferrari 11:14
They're like, where have we gone wrong with this girl?

Salima Adelstein 11:18
What happened to our daughter? But my mother said something very interesting. You know, they initially had a hard time with it, but as they saw the transformation in me, my mother said to her friends, she said, You know, I don't understand what my daughter is doing, but all I can tell you is, she's the happiest I have ever seen her in my life. And what more can a daughter do for her mom? Right? What more can a mom want from her daughter? And when I went to my niece's Bat Mitzvah, the transition into adulthood when you're 13, it was major controversy in my family. What role am I going to play now that I'm in Islam and not Judaism, right? Forgetting the fact that it's all one,

Alex Ferrari 12:14
It's all part of the Abrahamic traditions, even,

Salima Adelstein 12:17
And it extends beyond religion, right? So the rabbi decided that, well, okay, my name means peace. There's a prayer for peace in Judaism. I will do the prayer for peace. My brother said to me, that's all you can do. I don't want you up there talking anything more. Just do the prayer. Okay? I said, You got it, Dave. And these three older gentlemen came up in afterwards, and I said, Uh oh, here it is. It's coming. And they said, We have a question to ask you. And I said, sure. He said, we've been going to temple every week all of our lives. They were about in their late 70s, early 80s. We've heard this prayer over and over again. This was the first time we felt peace when you said it. How is that possible? You're not a Jew anymore.

Alex Ferrari 13:25
That's fascinating. What I find fascinating Salima is, you know, I come from a Catholic background, yeah, so I come from, I'm sure he still feels guilty about it. So, I, you know, I've been exposed, and I went to a Jewish preschool when I was, when I was a little kid in New York, so I've been exposed to Judaism and Christianity most, most of my life, in one way, shape or form, with either friends and family and so on. But what I find fascinating is this, and wouldn't call it tribal, but the programming, societal programming, community programming that religions put into you when you're born. Because when you were born, you were just a little girl. You weren't a Jewish girl or a Christian girl or anything else. You were just a girl. And they in the programming is so, so ingrained that you being the odd duck out, you know, say, Hey, I'm with Islam now, not even Islam. I'm just going a different path than Judaism, that they can that little story with those those gentlemen is so powerful because they were like, Wait a minute. I don't understand how I can still feel something that's not part of the programming or part of the traditions that I grew up with, and that's such an important part about it. I had the other day, I had a Christian near death experiencer on, and I've had people. Comment, and a lot of people came because of the Christian part, but they were completely confused about the idols, and I wouldn't call them idols, the masters, the avatars that I have up on my wall in the live studio. And they were just confused. Like, wait a minute, I don't understand. Their programming was so ingrained in the you know, Jesus is the God. Jesus is Lord. All that kind of, you know, thing that they couldn't wrap their head around, you know, Buddha being up there, or or Yogananda, or some in, you know, or Ganesh, or or Vishnu, or anything like that. It's, it's fascinating to me, and I'm trying, and I'm hoping that these kind of conversations open people up to break free from their programming, to understand that you can find it anywhere you were on already a spiritual path. It sounds like absolutely you are not looking for Sufism, if someone would have so if someone were walked up to you and go, Hey, you know, I think what you need is Sufism, you'd be like, Okay, move it along. But, but that path connected with you, and it brought you some it brought you something that you had just not felt before on the other path. And that's perfectly fine, correct?

Salima Adelstein 16:14
Exactly, because, you know, I think every individual, whether they realize it or not, are searching for truth. Are searching for meaning. Are searching for who am I and what am I doing here? And whichever path you takes that answer those questions for me, Sufism gave me the experience, rather than the talking, and that's what made the difference, that all of a sudden, I mean, here I am a Jew in Palestine, right, right? My programming. These are my enemies, of course. Yeah, right. Enemies. And here I am in the home of a Palestine Sufi master who was only treating me like his daughter. What is that?

Alex Ferrari 17:05
But that's what Jesus said. That's what Jesus said. That's what Buddha said. They all,

Salima Adelstein 17:10
They all say the same thing, because it's true. But when you experience it, before that, I didn't know, but when I experienced it, it's like, oh yes, we know truth when we hear truth. You know, some people get goosebumps, some people get an awakening. Some people get a sense of aha. But our human vessel, our soul, notes truth when we hear it and when we experience it. And for me, I didn't realize, even though I was having wonderful experiences meditating, I didn't realize how much separation was existing within my heart, this separation of Jewishness and Palestinians, this separation between me as a female and my brothers as a male, we carry all this separation within us. I was so locked into my own head, I had no idea all the turbulence that was going on within my heart. And what Sufism does is take that turbulence and bring it into a deep divine love and surrounds it with such peace and such calm and serenity that you get to we say, you see the world through God's eyes. You hear the sounds of the animals singing God's praise. You speak the words that move the hearts closer towards the one. Your hands become the hands by which God heals

Alex Ferrari 19:03
You sound like Rumi.

Salima Adelstein 19:08
Rumi was one of the great Sufis.

Alex Ferrari 19:10
I was gonna say he's one of the great, great Sufis of any time, let alone our time.

Salima Adelstein 19:17
And it's universal, even though a lot of it is based in Islam, it's absolutely a universal path for everyone, regardless of whether you're believing or not believing, whether you're an atheist or an agnostic.

Alex Ferrari 19:36
I think it's really important, and it's also one of the reasons I wanted you on the show is to show a different side of Islam, because, you know, Islam does get a little bit of bad press, and it's a little bit, I'm trying to be kind, but like in every religion, I mean, there's extremists in Christianity, there's extreme there's even extremists in Buddhism. I. There's a screen up in Hindu there. It's extremists in every religion and every philosophy, even. But when I heard I, when I when I was doing my original studies back in, back in the years and years go by, when I started studying world religions in college, just for fun, because I was interested in it, I discovered Sufism at that point, and didn't go too deep into it, but I just was fascinated with like, huh, there is a mystical side to Islam, and then there's then there. After I discovered the Cabal, I'm like, oh, there's a mystical side to Judaism, and then there's a mystical side to Christianity as well. So it's just like the mystical side is really interesting to me, because that's away from the traditional path, because a Sufi is so as a Sufi, what's the major difference between being a Sufi and being someone who just follows Islam or or is a, You know, a run of the mill Muslim, if you will.

Salima Adelstein 21:05
Most, as you say, run it through male Muslims. Most born Muslims don't understand why they do certain rituals. You know, they pray five times a day. They follow the laws and the prohibitions, but they have no understanding of what we would call the haqqah, or the inner truth, the mystical reasons behind it. And what Sufism does is open up the Why are you doing these things? It opens up the reasons behind what happens when you pray five times a day. In my own experience, I knew how to pray before I went to study is Islam and to study Sufism. And I have to be honest with you, Alex, I had a lot of resistance to learning how to pray in the Islamic, traditional way.

Alex Ferrari 22:03
Right! Because you're like, I had enough of that already.

Salima Adelstein 22:05
Yeah, I've done that. I've done that. I don't need that. And I'm finding God within and etc on out. But one of the things that I noticed, and it's one of the beauties of having inner vision is I decide, well, let me just watch, and let me see what happens during these movements that Muslims are doing in the traditional prayer. And what I was shown shocked me, because what I was shown was there are angels that are actually washing your light body every time that you pray, that there are prophets and ascended masters that are standing in each of the positions and helping To bring you closer to that God within and God without. And I was like, I'm a fool. Here I am saying no to something that has all these gifts and treasures to it, but I never experienced in any other prayers that I did. And that's what happens we don't have as human beings, we don't have enough curiosity. We don't have enough mystical knowledge about the Haki Ka, about what's called the inner truth behind the things that we do that bring us joy, that bring us happiness.

Alex Ferrari 23:40
That's fascinating. What I also love about what you just said is that you're not just talking specifically in the the story or the, I hate to say the word genre of Islam, but you were talking other Ascended Masters, other prophets, other avatars, other saints, if you will, who are there in that process? It seems that Sufism is a bit more open to a bigger, larger truth than just the dogma that is been taught like you were saying, like you have to do this, this, this, this and this. But no one ever tells you why it's like for me, for me, it was like Jesus was born, he does a whole bunch of stuff until he's 12, yadda yadda yadda, 18 years gone, and then he shows up on a donkey, and I in first grade, I'm going, where's the yada yada yada years like, that's what I call them, the those are the most interesting. Yeah, I want to know where Jesus was in his 20s and his late teens. Like, you know, as a teenager, is he? Was he a rebel? Was he, you know, was he smoking and drinking? Like, what is he doing during this time? You know, I'm curious to find out so. But those things in the traditional paths of any religion seem to be frowned upon. No, no, don't talk about that. Even in Hinduism, there. Aspects of the mystical side that they don't like a traditional Hindu would not want to even talk about at all, at all. So it's fat, it's, I guess it's, it's fear. It's fear, because, like for me, I was fearless. I'm very we're both troublemakers. I can smell my own we're both, we're both troublemakers, which is great. Jesus was a troublemaker. Buddha was they all were troublemakers. So we're in good company, as they say. But as troublemakers, we always question everything. And for me, I had no fear of questioning, because I want the truth as you did. We want the truth regardless of what happens or what comes crumbling down. I need to understand the truth. That's my I guess what I've always looked for, and I assume the same for you. So as you're you're searching for truth. People, when you ask these kind of deeper questions, Hey, why do I pray five times a day? Why can't I have this or that? Why are these prohibitions in place on your end. Or why do I have? What happened to Jesus? What happened those 18 years? If you start to go down these roads that the doors are normally closed, it shakes the foundation. It could possibly shake the foundation of your belief. Because if your belief is all of this, this, this and this, then, if, if Jesus really did go to the mystery schools in Egypt, he really did go to Tibet. He really did go to India and learn from the yogi's and then came back as a master, a Realized master at 30. Well, that changes your whole foundation of your belief, because that's not the narrative that was told. I'm assuming similar for you,

Salima Adelstein 26:43
Absolutely, yeah. And you know, there's a difference between following the law and following the dogma and having a path that opens up the truth and then having the experience of the truth. And that's the difference between Sufism and traditional Islam. So at our university, we have many quote, born Muslims that are coming into our school and saying, Wow, I never knew that. You know. And here they have, you know a white former Jewish girl teaching them about what they think they know,

Alex Ferrari 27:29
Which is, yeah, because in a perfect, a perfect, perfect, perfect illustration of that is the Bible, the Bible that we know, that Old Testament and New Testament, The Old Testament being the Torah, or I think, versions of the Torah and the new the testament being the stuff about Jesus, if you will. I was never told that there was a Roman Emperor called Constantine who put this all together at the Council of Nicaea. And there was an editing process, and it got everybody together and like, hey, let's, let's figure out what the canon is of this story. And like, oh, we can't leave your incarnation, and that's going to ruin what we're trying to do, which is control people. And so that's a perfect example of what you're saying. Like, I was never told that, but that's historical fact, but it's never promoted. And let's not even talk about the King James Bible, which is the one that we all talk about, and the one we all really read now, well, who's King James, and how did the and why is there thou and Lord, and it's all these kind of things are inside the Bible, because the king said to put it in there and rewrite it, according to him, it's just fascinating. But this is all historical stuff that's never told to us,

Salima Adelstein 28:41
Yeah, and what's the beauty of Sufism is there's a book inside of our heart, book, and the more that we read this Holy Book, the more the truth of the holy books that are out there become known to us.

Alex Ferrari 28:59
So it's, it's, it's similar to the kingdom of heaven is within you. Yeah, the truth, but the truth is within you. That's the key. That's right. We just have to understand how to look inside and look for the answers that are within us all the time. It's kind of like the old horror movies. Is like the phone calls coming from inside the house. Thing. House, and you're looking for the monster or something outside, but it's actually inside, and that's the thing we're looking for, the answers outside of us, but the answers are inside of us, and that's what the masters have said for all these years.

Salima Adelstein 29:33
And the other thing that's important here that I want to mention is our heart is like a mirror, and if we don't polish that mirror, we're going to have a distorted perception of our reality. And that's what I've learned in Sufism, is how do we polish the mirror of our heart so that the light of our soul shines through and that light touches the. Everything that we do and everybody that we meet,

Alex Ferrari 30:04
Very Rumi esque, I have to say, that's I love those. I love it. It's beautiful. Now, you mentioned earlier that when you met your master, that the Sufi master that put you on this path, that he started explaining to you the evolution of the soul from his point of view. Can you explain that in, you know, I'm assuming a truncated it's a longer conversation, but you know, the evolution of the soul five minutes go. So, from a Sufism, a Sufism point of view, what is the journey of the soul and the evolution of the soul.

Salima Adelstein 30:44
So one of the best ways I can describe it is by talking about what we call the nafs, or our ego. And in Sufism and also in life, our ego tends to run the show, and our ego either is listening to darkness and things that are going to get us off of the truth, or it's listening to truth and it's looking for truth. This evolution of the ego's journey, or the journey of the nafs, from its primitive state, if you will, from the place where we say we have three major voices, if you will, that we listen to the voice of our ego, the one that says I know I'm the best, or conversely, I don't feel good about myself and I'm the worst, right? And an outside voice that we learn from our programming, as you said, from our teachers, from our siblings, from our peers, as we're growing up, that feed us information about ourselves, that set the picture or the image of who we think we are. Part of the evolution of the soul is breaking down those pictures, breaking down those images and those illusions, so that in that process of breaking down, in those process of taking the wounds that we've experienced, and everybody has experienced wounds in their life. Taking those wounds that we've experienced experienced and bringing the love and bringing the light to them, it opens up the pathway that takes our human experience. And what we would call in Sufism, are human qualities in our soul and elevates them into our divine qualities. So we may have, for example, love most of the time when humans love, it's a conditional love. I'll love you if, right when we talk about the evolution of the soul, it's evolving that human love into a divine love that's an unconditional love that says, no matter what, I will love you

Alex Ferrari 33:39
When in your in your university, that you how you teach your students? How can you, how do you teach them to embody the Divine Presence, as opposed to understanding it intellectually? Because there's so many people on the spiritual path who use this a lot more than use this.

Salima Adelstein 34:02
That's right, that's right. It's through the spiritual practices that we do in Sufism. I've given a little giveaway, if you will, at the end of your show, 5c's of Sufism. And in that you'll have an opportunity, or your audience will to use some of these Sufi practices to actually experience the presence within you, and then to be present with that presence.

Alex Ferrari 34:34
So is there one that you can kind of just talk about right now before

Salima Adelstein 34:38
They're a little long, but one is very simple, and it's, I'm sure, one that is very universal, and you just take your breath and do ah sound, the first thing that it does is what it opens the heart. It. No other sound does that. If you look, yeah, other sounds have different effects on the body, but the ah sound, that's why we say it, when we take a decent, deep sigh right to sort of let out the tension in our body, that ah sound begins to open the heart. When the heart is open, then that's when we can start to experience whatever is inside. Sometimes it might not be the best thing. It might be, in my case, right? It might be all those separations that I thought I was way beyond, right, but they still existed within me. Because when I was meditating, I was going up and out and having my soul, my spirit, was having the most glorious journeys outside of my body without ever being aware of the beauty inside my body. We say in Sufism, you think you're a small star, when in fact, you comprise the entire universe. Imagine experiencing that entire universe within you, just through the ah sound, combining that with the law, ah law, and repeating that over and over, it means the one. It's also the name of God in Islam, but its mystical meaning is the one, so it connects you to that oneness within you, and it connects you to the One who created you.

Alex Ferrari 36:50
What is the biggest misconception that people have about Sufism in general? Because it's because it's connected to the, let's say the bad press sometimes not Sufism in general, but Islam and people have preconceived notions.

Salima Adelstein 37:05
Absolutely. People do not recognize that the word Islam actually means peace.

Alex Ferrari 37:13
Wow, I didn't know that,

Salima Adelstein 37:15
Right! That is the biggest misconception that the word Islam means peace. It comes from the root word salaam, meaning peace.

Alex Ferrari 37:26
So, so as far as but out of Sufism, what is some of the misconceptions of Sufism that you've come across in your in your journey down the road, that people might have of it,

Salima Adelstein 37:36
That it is only for Muslims that is a religion, that it's based on dogma, it's based on shoulds and should nots, that it is interested in just one aspect, rather than the totality. Those are all the misconceptions that I've come across that it that, for example, an atheist couldn't be a Sufi. And what I say to any atheist, do you love? And they say, Oh yeah, that's the primary ingredient to beginning the path is love. Is Love. It always is used to work in a children's hospice program years ago. Yeah, and I learned so much from those kids, so much they would say to me, tell my parents not to cry, and I said they're going to cry my love, and they'd say, tell them not to because I know that I'm going to be out of pain. I know that I'm going to a place where there's only love. So I've asked them to draw a picture of where they're going. And you know that every single child that I worked with Drew exactly the same picture, which was this beautiful, like White Castle in the Sky. They were going home, and that's what they knew, and they knew and they knew it, and they wanted to make sure that I helped their parents. They said, then we know they're going to be sad, but tell them not to be sad

Alex Ferrari 39:29
That that work is being a hospice worker, children's hospice, no less, which is even even more heartbreaking in many ways. What are the lessons that you besides that one, what are some of the things that you've picked up on? Because that's a very special and privileged space to be in. You know, when anyone's passing to the next to the other side is, is special, but a child, it. US have a different feeling because they're so they're still close to the to the Creator. You know, we lose that as we get older, but then gain it as we get closer to the end. That's the fast as you're dying, all of a sudden, I see angels. I see Uncle Bob show up. But during, but in the middle of your life, you're just like, I can't think about any of that stuff. I need to create, create, create hustle, hustle, hustle, make money. Make money, make money, kind of thing. It's ego, ego, ego. But at the beginning, we're so close, we're joyful, we're loving, we're unconditional, loving, almost, but it's kind of beaten out of us by society as we get older. So what was, what is that like being around them at such a young age,

Salima Adelstein 40:43
It's joyful, it's peaceful, and I think more importantly, it's remember I talked earlier about who am I and why am I here? That's what I love the most from them. It's like I know that I'm here for a short time. I know I was sent here to help my parents. I know that what I'm doing here is part of a larger plan, and I'm okay with that. There was an acceptance and a beauty, and how they dealt with what was going on in their lives, that even when I work with people who are older, who were dying, did not have that same sense of purpose and commitment to this is what my destiny was. This is what my destiny is. I'm not meant to be here forever. I'm only meant to be here for a short time. I've completed the work that I was meant to do here. That really shocked me. It really did, you know, but you're only five years old.

Alex Ferrari 42:02
What work did you do?

Salima Adelstein 42:03
Well, what work did you do, right?

Alex Ferrari 42:06
But the thing is that they, from my point of view, work interviewing so many near death experiencers and mystics and, you know, intuitives and so on. I understand from my, at least my point of view, is that a soul comes in, even if they're in there for a few minutes. It's a job. It could be how that affects the parents, how it affects the world around them, how, you know, and they it's very, very different. So it does make sense that they say that, like my work here is done. I get it because they this life might have just been but you have to have to understanding foundational understanding that we have multiple lives, that we incarnate multiple lives. Is that something in Sufism as well, or is it a one and go?

Salima Adelstein 42:49
Actually, it's not interesting enough. That was probably the hardest adjustment I had to make to Sufism, because, remember, I came from a meditative path where reincarnation is a part of it, and I really had to sit with it for a long time to really understand, how do I reconcile this within my own being? Because Sufism doesn't believe in reincarnation, but they do, they do believe in parallel universes. So our work here is done, but we're in a million other but we may go to another universe to do another part of our work. So if we don't complete ourselves here, we get another opportunity someplace else to complete ourselves.

Alex Ferrari 43:38
Well, Salima, that's basically a different flavor of reincarnation in so many ways. It's just a different point of view, but it's the same concept, if the soul's works not done, they will go somewhere else, parallel to us, or come back in a recycling scenario. It's just

Salima Adelstein 43:56
And that's what I thought. Interestingly enough, I was working with a man who was part of my meditation community at the time, and when he transitioned, I had the blessing, if you will, to see what happened. And what happened in his transition is he immediately went to work on the other side, and I, everybody was asking me, what was going on, because I was kind of in a shock kind of state. They said, what's what's happening? Because the room was so peaceful. And if you've ever been in a room when somebody transitions, there's a real peaceful flavor of happens in the room. And they said, well, and he just went to his next job, and I saw it as clearly as I see you sitting there and and that's when I realized that there is an afterlife. There is something that happens. I'm not sure. Whether we return to this earth or not, but I do know that we can. Our soul continues to evolve until it's complete, until it's reached its perfection.

Alex Ferrari 45:13
That's so beautiful because, I mean, we're saying the same thing that's so beautiful. Thing like this is a perfect illustration of what we've been talking about in this conversation, different paths to the same place. Sufism believes in parallel realities, which is pretty quantum physics of them, you know, and also, also very Marvel Comics of them, as well, with parallel realities. And then in the Hindu tradition, or in the yoga tradition, it's or in the Buddhist tradition, it's a coming back of reincarnation. They're both. I mean, as you explained it, they both sound the same to me. It's just one's up and down. One is parallel. But if we're doing

Salima Adelstein 45:55
Even in the Hindu tradition, one of the things that fascinated me was, if you've completed your your cycle, you don't come back. You're done, right?

Alex Ferrari 46:07
You finish eventually, eventually you can, if you've learned everything you need to, and you've evolved to a point that of Self Realization, you truly understand now you're a master, hence, an Ascended Master. But many times those masters, the Bible was it called when, um, they decide to come back to help humanity. I forgot the name bogi, bogi vata, bogi sata, yeah, yeah, you know, I'm talking about Quan Yin, yeah. The ascended master Quan,

Salima Adelstein 46:34
They don't come back. Yeah, they generally don't come back in this form in here.

Alex Ferrari 46:38
Right! They but they stay around and help, as opposed to transitioning to the next office. So I have to ask you this question, because I've never, I've always been fascinated, what's with the dancing, the dancing and that whole, that whole world, tradition, the whirling, the whirling Sufis. Yeah, because I heard this is what I heard, that it's a meditative practice in that sense. What is it exactly? Because that's the famous that's the image that most people think of, if they know anything about Sufism is that.

Salima Adelstein 47:16
Right! So Sufism has many different what we call tariqahs, many different paths that are part of the umbrella of Sufism. The particular path that I'm a member of is called the shadow Leah path. It doesn't whirl. I was fascinated by whirling, so I went to Syria to study whirling. What I can tell you is it's an absolutely ecstatic experience. So it's it's the opportunity to bring heaven to earth within your body through the whirling.

Alex Ferrari 48:03
So it is a meditation in a form of it,

Salima Adelstein 48:06
In a form of it. Yeah, it's a way of taking your soul and returning it to its source and then bringing it back in to live in the world.

Alex Ferrari 48:21
And speaking of the world Salima, the world is going through some stuff right now, it sure is. I was talking to a friend the other day about this when I'm assuming you know who Yogananda is, Paramahansa, he's right behind me when Paramahansa, when he was writing Autobiography of the yogi, in the process of writing it, they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, and it's such a dichotomy of what the work that he was trying to put out into The world and what was happening in the world. I say that to kind of put people in a state of like, things are bad or things are rough right now, but they've been a lot rougher into humanity's history without question. It just seems like it's a lot crazier because of all the connection and social media and stuff. But from your point of view, and I brought the Yogananda story too, because those teachings were needed more than ever at that time, and those teachings are now even more needed, more than ever, than than before, all of these different journey or paths, Like Sufism, like the Kabbalah, you know, like mystical Christianity, these paths are starting to come out of the shadows almost, and starting to come out into the public, you know, public way, for perfect example, someone like yourself who was on a meditative path, you know, and you know, I'm assuming more of the Eastern philosophy kind of. World, all of a sudden, was introduced to this, this path. It was very in the shadows. Kabbalah was very in the shadows for for centuries. But it seems to start. It's becoming more mainstream. Do you believe that these things are starting to come into the world? Because we, we need them more than ever before, and that people are, are are more receptive to this because they're losing kind of their they're losing their faith in this more dogmatic, traditional separation or fear based ideals in any, in any and all paths. And they're looking for something a little bit more inward, inward. They're looking for answers, and they're looking for answers anywhere they can get them, and the traditional paths are not doing it for them. Do you think that's why all of these different ideas are coming up right now?

Salima Adelstein 50:50
I'm not sure that that's the reason, as much as our own evolution as a human race, right? I I happen to have been on a peace mission to Japan last year and met with some of the victims of the Hiroshima bombing. Interestingly enough, two weeks afterwards, they won the Nobel Peace Prize. But their journey of evolution of their soul was fascinating to listen to, and it reminded me of the journey of our civilizations, of how we have to go through such darkness in order to appreciate the light, in order to navigate our way through the darkness, through the sadness, through the grief, in order to arrive at our joy and our happiness. And for me, I feel like our human race is in that evolutionary process right now, and we're ready for that because of all the experiences that we've had. My Sufi master used to say, how could you know happiness if you've never experienced sadness? It's the duality of this experience, right? How we experience God is through that duality.

Alex Ferrari 52:41
Can you explain that a little bit more?

Salima Adelstein 52:44
Sure we have what we in Sufism will call Jamal, which is the beauty, one of my favorite exercises I'd love to give people is just to say, stare in a mirror and say, when God created me, God created beauty. And just notice what comes up in your being and continue to say that until you find the truth within yourself. Those are experiences of Jamal, of the beauty of a sunset, the beauty of the ocean and the beauty of our environment. I live in New England, so the beauty of a fall and all the different colors we also have the Jamal. The Jamal is the more severity, the more what we would call in Sufism, the majesty of God right, the crises that we face, the storms that happen in our life And in the environment, the center point of that Jeb and Jalal is known as Kamal or completion or perfection. It's in that Kamal that we know ourselves and we know God. It's in that place that God describes himself as expanding and contracting our breath. Can you imagine if all we did was exhale all the time, or all we did was inhale all the time? Impossible, right? It's in that contrast that we begin to see truth and know truth and find God.

Alex Ferrari 54:47
As you were talking, what came to me is you were talking about humanity as a general, as a macro, but on the micro, it's our journey. We. The only times I mean, at least in my lifetime, that the biggest lessons I've learned are always been the more difficult ones, the more challenging ones, the more painful ones. I appreciate the relationship I have now with my wife, who I've been with for decades at this point, because I had bad relationships before I knew what I didn't want, I learned what I didn't want painfully, painfully, as she did as well. So it's just an example of

Salima Adelstein 55:35
Those, how we grow without faith. It's no growth, right? It's like, you know, the squeezing of the lemon to get the lemonade, to get the juice. You know, we're not going to get the juice of life if we're not squeezed. And those experiences that we have, that we may label bad, actually squeeze us so we get to experience the joy that we get to experience our own growth

Alex Ferrari 56:11
Well, that, if I may, quote Rumi one more time in this conversation, like, I just adore, I adore Rumi, and I might, I'm paraphrasing here, but isn't the very famous one is like the cut that happens to you allows the light to come in or something,

Salima Adelstein 56:28
The wound is where the light is

Alex Ferrari 56:31
Right, but you need the wound in order to let in order to let the light in

Salima Adelstein 56:37
Your heart needs To break open, in order to find the divine within, in order to find that divine spark, that divine light that God placed in every single human being, the heart has to break open in order to find it. I have a farm where I live in Pennsylvania, and we raised chickens for a while, and you know, when the chicken is in the egg, All it knows is this inside of that shell, right? As soul is like that when it's imprisoned in our body, we have to break free just as that chick breaks free, out of its shell to experience more,

Alex Ferrari 57:25
The truth that chicken is experienced, the truth, the truth of where it actually is. It's not his world is not the shell. No, it's so, so much more, right?

Salima Adelstein 57:37
And our world is not just this body. It is not in a universe inside of us to explore,

Alex Ferrari 57:44
And it's a very big one too.

Salima Adelstein 57:47
Yogananda, inside of your heart, right? Inside of your heart.

Alex Ferrari 58:00
If you could tell, if you can give one piece of advice to someone who's watching, who is lost, who's lost because they're in tremendous amount of pain. They're lost because they haven't been able to find a path that resonates with them on their on their journey, in their search, or just feel lost in general, in this in this life, we've all felt that way at one point or another. We feel the the this thing that we're like, oh, I don't know what to do, where I am, I don't know where I'm going, all that kind of stuff. If there was something you could say to that person listening or watching right now, what would that be?

Salima Adelstein 58:35
Probably two things. Number one, find something that you love, even if it's a cat a dog, and share that love, and the second is, find something that you can truly say, I'm grateful for love, and gratitude helps anchor us when we feel lost. It helps establish a sense of meaning in places where we're not feeling much meaning.

Alex Ferrari 59:08
Beautiful. Thank you for that one question I wanted to ask you, in regards to the mystical side of Sufism, which, if you have been, and I'm assuming you've been in India, so you've spoken to Yogi's and have heard the stories of the yogis and the mystical, the mystical aspects of what they do, by by location, levitation, manifestation, all these kind of yogic powers that they have. Is there anything like that in Sufism, like when you evolve to a certain place, that there's these stories, these these myths of a a mastery, Master Sufi, who can

Salima Adelstein 59:31
Not only stories. When I was in Syria, there was stuff you saw. It was a Sufi master. Who literally put a sword through one of his disciples and pulled it out. No blood, no nothing. I witnessed this.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:10
Don't try this at home, everyone. Don't try this unless you're a Sufi. Don't try it.

Salima Adelstein 1:00:17
I was on a trip to Morocco. I took a group of women to Morocco. We met with some Sufis in Morocco. They would take a kettle of hot water, it was hot, a kettle of hot water, pour it into their mouth and then spit out cool water.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:35
So what? What's happening there, from your understanding?

Salima Adelstein 1:00:40
So what's happening? There is an A way of transmuting reality, yeah, so that we're moving out of what we would call in Sufism, the world of imagination, into the world of we have a word called it's called lahoot, and I'm trying to find an English definition for it into the world of all possibilities.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:12
It's kind of, it sounds kind of like Neo from the Matrix, understanding how to use the code and manipulate the code in this simulation, and now it he knows how to do things, and he could do things that nobody else does, because he's kind of seen behind the curtain, almost, and he understands the game. Does that make sense?

Salima Adelstein 1:01:31
It is. And that's not the end of the story. If we stop at the miracles, right, then we stop with our own evolution and we become and that becomes the illusion. Rather than continuing on that journey. It's the

Alex Ferrari 1:01:51
It's the egoic traps, if you will. Of the yogi's talk about these, this kind of on the path to enlightenment, there are these little traps, and the perfect example of this a great parable. And please forgive me if you've heard this before, people listening are watching where there's two Yogi's on the edge of a river, and there's and one, one Yogi turns to the other and goes, here, watch this. And he levitates across to the other side of the river, and then the other Yogi just walks 15 feet and goes on the bridge and walks across, and he goes, what did you think of that? And he goes, I feel that that's a waste of 35 years of your time, when I could have just taken a bridge. You know, it's you learn. You take it three decades to learn this trick, but you could have it's like, what's the point of that? Because as you evolve, it spiritually, certain things unlock within you, and you're able to, like, do them. Those are pretty amazing.

Salima Adelstein 1:02:44
They were pretty as I said, I've witnessed them with my own eyes,

Alex Ferrari 1:02:49
Right! Yeah. So it's not just stories.

Salima Adelstein 1:02:51
It's not just stories. But more importantly, and I think this is what I'd love to leave your audience with, in Sufism, we have two concepts. One is called Fanaa, which is the annihilation of your ego. And when I first heard that, I was like, I don't know if I want to annihilate my ego, but the actual experience of it is the dissolving of your ego into divine love. We have many pictures around the world, and at least I did around the word annihilation.

Alex Ferrari 1:03:25
Yeah, I already, I just saw Armageddon coming with this giant comic, just what I saw so

Salima Adelstein 1:03:35
But the actual, the actual, real experience of it is the dissolving of the ego into pure divine love. And then from that, the other term in Sufism, or the other experience in Sufism, is that of Baqa, and Baqa is the self subsisting within that divine love within the world. And for me, that's where we're all headed.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:04
It sounds to me that what the goal is of all of this, almost, of everything we're talking about, every path, every every tradition, is to find, quote, unquote, heaven on earth, to just to experience what you feel when you're a soul on the other side, but you're like, it's kind of like you're a soul on the other side. You're dropped into this experience in this reality, and then you have to learn and learn and learn and learn, whether in a parallel reality or in a reincarnation scenario, you're learning, you're learning, you're learning up until the point where you finally learn how to break free of this or understand what this the reality. To know the truth, once you understand the truth, then there's no reason for you to be down here anymore, because you've already know how the game is played, and we're all kind of everything you're saying sounds like versions of what I've discovered and what I've experienced speaking to near death experiencers. Uh, we're on the other side is pure love. There is no ego, instant manifestation, all these kind of things which we're trying to do down here. And you were saying it's like trying to find pure love. Well, that's what's on the other side. That's what I all I ever hear from near death experiences, is this pure, unconditional love, and we're trying to achieve that here on our own spiritual paths. Does that compute to you?

Salima Adelstein 1:05:28
Oh, absolutely. And the beauty is that that's all of that's all inside of us, and we keep looking outside for something that is inside, and that was my biggest aha in Sufism is, you know, the one of my favorite movies is the Wizard of Oz. You know, so many spiritual parallels in in the Wizard of Oz.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:56
Oh, my god, yeah, it was the matrix of its time. I Yeah, it's, I love, I absolutely love that movie.

Salima Adelstein 1:06:07
To be able to find that in here, where it exists all along, is such a gift, gift to yourself and gift to humanity.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:21
Is that what? So it's, you know, I haven't actually sat down and thought about the Wizard of Oz, but it's just like, like you've had the ability to go home all the time. All you have to do is click those, those heels of the movie slippers, and you go,

Salima Adelstein 1:06:36
That's it. And that's why we say Sufism is really a path of remembering and being reminded because it's already inside of you, and one of the practices is actually called remembrance, that you're remembering who you are in truth, you're remembering and reconnecting with that divine light, Divine Spark, within you that's connected to all of us.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:05
I've really, truly enjoyed this conversation. You're such a is you're such a pleasure. Your energy is so beautiful, so peaceful and loving. I can sense it coming off of you, off the screen. So it is. It is so beautiful. Where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you and your organization are doing in the world

Salima Adelstein 1:07:25
Through our Sufi University. It's www.sufi.net or www.sufiu.org See you all your many courses. You can either take a whole program or just dive in with a little foundation and just learn the basics.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:48
That's amazing. And if you can leave our audience with one remembrance or prayer to awaken that divine beauty that we've been speaking about within them, what would that be?

Salima Adelstein 1:08:01
So this is one of my favorite prayers I'd like to share. It's called the light prayer, and it goes like this, put light on my right side and light on my left side, light in front of me and light behind me, light in my senses, in my eyes, my ears, my nose, my hands, my mouth, light in my heart, make Me all light. Remember we are light. We are love, and spread your light into the world. It is the light that will take us out of the darkness and into the love. Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:16
It's so beautiful. Salima, thank you so much again for being here. It's been such a pleasure meeting you and continue doing the amazing work you're doing to help bring some light into this world and into every soul that walks it. So I appreciate you and everything you're doing.

Salima Adelstein 1:09:31
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate your podcast and all that you're doing to help spread the word out to help people of all to help the souls go to their next level. Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:44
Thank you.