Rosaline Bosco is a Professor of English and has a Ph.D. in English Literature. Her thesis is ‘Typology and Symbolism in the Works of Nathaniel Hawthorne.’ She has also self-published three books on Amazon (‘God has our backs,’ ‘The Brimstone Fallacy’ and ‘Co-create with Your Universe’). Rosalie is interested in spreading awareness about Consciousness, as it will enable human beings to change their realities in a Conscious manner.
Her book ‘The Brimstone Fallacy’ answers a number of questions that have been considered unanswerable for a long time. It explains why good people are not always rewarded, and bad people are not always punished in their current lives. It provides insights into the Human experience on Earth, Reincarnation, Concepts of Original Sin, and Karma.
Consciousness and the true nature of Heaven and Hell revealed through Near Death Experiences have been explained through a multi-religious approach. There is a major shift occurring on our planet, and this book clarifies how we can shift our Consciousness from the Third Dimension to the fourth and then the fifth. Finally, the book concludes with an explanation about why Heaven and Hell are not truly places but Dimensions of our Consciousness.
Please enjoy my conversation with Rosaline Bosco.
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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 253
Rosaline Bosco 0:00
We experience heaven and hell, every moment of our lives and every day. It is our choice.
Alex Ferrari 0:20
I'd like to welcome to the show Rosaline Bosco. How are you doing Rosaline?
Rosaline Bosco 0:23
I'm doing fine. Alex, thank you for inviting me to the show. I'm really happy to join us here today.
Alex Ferrari 0:28
Oh, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate this. And I appreciate you staying up late over in India to do this conversation. So I truly, truly appreciate it.
Rosaline Bosco 0:38
Thank you, Alex. Thank you.
Alex Ferrari 0:39
So your your your work is fascinating, because one of your first books here that I read was The Brimstone Fallacy, which is, we're going to dive into a little bit but you're also do a lot of work in the consciousness and trying to raise consciousness for the West and the East for that matter. But my very first question to you is diving into that the first concept of Heaven and Hell and all that stuff. Why are good people not always rewarded? And why bad people are not always punished in our lives? In other words, why did good things happen? Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people sometimes?
Rosaline Bosco 1:17
Yeah, that was the question that got me started off in the first place. And at one point of time, in my life, when my mother lost her leg, her leg was amputated, due to the mistake of a doctor. And, and later, she lost her life due to cancer. So that started off a lot of questions in me. And she was a very good holy kind woman who would never speak a bad word or, or a about anybody. So and she was a very soft natured woman. So this was the first thing that affected me very deeply, and probably my quest started there. And I realized that I did not know everything. So all the social conditioning that may have made me believe till that point of time that good people will be rewarded, and bad people will be punished was certainly proved wrong. So that started a barrage of questions. And now we have a lot of people talking about reincarnation, and all these things. And so I also think that there are two parts that there are two sides to the same coin, one could be the reincarnation part, the other could be your soul's purpose to learn. So, when we look at it from the eastern point of view, we think of karma and coming back, and doing our lessons again, and evolving our consciousness. And another could be the purpose of the soul, to do something for humanity, to be with the people of whom the soul loves as a spirit guide, and to guide people. So I think the the basic idea that good things happens to happen to good people is not correct, in my point of view. Yeah,
Alex Ferrari 3:47
It doesn't in generally, it's part of the souls journey to learn. And it from the outside, it could be like, well, that person was so beautiful, like your mother didn't her to fly and bad things happen to her. But that yeah, according from the eastern point of view of reincarnation, it is her path and her choice to go through these things to learn and grow in this life.
Rosaline Bosco 4:10
Yes, yes. But then I believe that the soul also has a purpose. So my mother's soul might have had a specific purpose to be with us, and to help us evolve. So it could be these are two different facets of the same concept, I would say, Well, the way of looking at it from the eastern point of view, and another way of looking at it from the point of view of the soul's purpose.
Alex Ferrari 4:42
Right, so in other words, so in other words, you get a two for one, she grows as a soul and she also helps you start you down on a path, because without going through this, you would have maybe never even asked those questions, correct?
Rosaline Bosco 4:56
Yes, definitely. Alex. Yeah, I would have I would have just been a puppet who would have been just socially conditioned to accept everything that the church and other people told me.
Alex Ferrari 5:09
That's an interesting concept too, because there's so much that, you know, I've said this on the show before is that, you know, our belief system is basically programmed into us since we were born. And we are just a result of the conditioning and the environment that we were born into, wherever you are in, you know, you could be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, you know, whatever your family is, that's what you are. Only later in life, you become more, if you're if you are curious more, you question a lot more of the things and you start thinking, well, that doesn't feel right to me anymore. I, well, wait a minute, what, what are this billion other people over here in India are thinking a little bit different than I was? What are they doing different? Are they all going to hell? Because they don't believe in what I believe and vice versa. So you start thinking outside the box a little bit, but that's scary. But that's extremely scary for most people, because it, it rocks the foundation of their entire existence. And then then they're like, Well, wait a minute, my mom's not wrong. My dad is not wrong. How dare you? And then that's where fights begin. And wars. Would you agree with that?
Rosaline Bosco 6:23
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So when the basic foundation is wrong, even I was not able to come to this mindset. For so many years in my life, it took me a very long time. And a number of incidents to bring me to this place, where now I strongly believe, especially after looking at so many near death, hundreds and hundreds of near death experiences where I've come to believe that this is what is true, and not what we have been taught and conditioned to believe.
Alex Ferrari 6:58
So my next question is, is Hell real? because that is a concept in the West specifically. And I think in many other religions as well, there is a concept of this place, but I'm not as educated in the other religions, but in how I was taught how it was real in first grade, and I was terrified. As a child about this concept of Helmick, I don't want to go to hell. And that's exactly what it was built to do. But I love to hear it from your point of view, is hell real?
Rosaline Bosco 7:27
Hell is definitely not real, Alex. So I think we experienced hell, right here on earth. It is not that you will have to go somewhere else to explore it, it is after your death, that we need to experience how we experience heaven and hell, every moment of our lives, and every day. It is our choice to experience heaven or hell wherever we are. And it has to do with consciousness. Because what you believe and what we think, and our expectations, and again, how we have been conditioned, based on gender, or status are so many other things, makes us believe that something is healthy or happy there are there are poor people who live happy lives, holy, holy, contented lives. So you could be happy wherever you are, and create heaven for yourself. So and this I think could carry on even after the the consciousness that you carry, could carry on, extend even after death where you could be could experience all those fears, and all those negative elements that we have had in our lives experienced in our lives without getting rid of them. When we cross when a person process over, I think he or she carries carries this. So that's why many near death experiences when they when when they are in a situation which is like hell, then some of them immediately pray to God. They they get that compulsion to pray to God. And finally, they see a grain of light and they move on. So there's
Alex Ferrari 9:34
Well yeah, that's very interesting because you you've you've obviously studied a lot of near death experiences I've spoken to many near death experiencers on the show, and I've had a few that have seen hell in their in their near death experience. One specifically reminded me that she's like, I created that for myself because of my belief system, that I felt that I needed to go through that hell and once I decided I didn't want to do it anymore. When I asked for help, that's when that little speck of light came in. And I was transformed out of it out of all your experiences in your death with with near death experiences, is that a common thing? Because generally near death experiences don't stay in a hill and then come back yes, they there is some sort of redemption if you've not redemption, but some sort of elevation in vibration to the point where you get to a light of some sort of Angel love being something comes in saves you and pulls you out of that, or do you have any in your any cases that they went to hell stayed in hell. And then when they came back from hell, they were just woken up, and they There was never saw any Heaven or any positive place.
Rosaline Bosco 10:44
I don't remember anything of that kind. And so whenever they plead cling to God, I mean, when when they say Jesus saved me or any god of their choice, which of a God of their choice. I mean, immediately, they see the light, and then But then the life review is always there. So if you think that is a part of hell, or something like that, then But then again, even in the life review, only your soul, you judge yourself, you evaluate yourself based on what happened in your life. So I don't think anybody was has been stuck in hell, for a very long time, unable to escape from that, and come and has come back straight from that experience.
Alex Ferrari 11:39
So what you're telling me is Dante has lied to us all these years? Well, isn't isn't honestly, isn't Dante responsible for the current idea of hell in the Western mind? Was those books Inferno and so on?
Rosaline Bosco 11:58
Yeah, to a certain extent, yeah.
Alex Ferrari 12:00
It's good marketing, good marketing. You know, they, they came up with the help of he really painted a picture of the seven layers of hell and you have to go through it and all this damnation and all this stuff, which, you know, I was raised Catholic, I'm a recovering Catholic, as I always say, on the show, and the the concept of the Old Testament and in, in the, in the western Bible, in regards to the punishing God, the jealous God, the vengeful God, all of this stuff goes against anything I can even feel in my bones. Because as a parent, you just would never do anything like that no matter what your child did, you will never throw them into a pit of hell, you will never punish them forever. That is not what love is. So. So in other words, I'm gonna ask you the question, Does God rain down catastrophes, and natural disasters, and disease as a form of punishment to people because so many people, maybe people listening right now believe that truly in their heart,
Rosaline Bosco 13:06
I think people have foisted their own image, human image on God. So human characteristics. So they, it's just a personification of God, as a human being, but when you take the Bible, and when you take it in every place, you see Jesus talking about forgiveness, and Jesus talking about unconditional love. So, I mean, the damage that all these years has been done to the psyche of the people is, is too much. And that is what prompted me to write this book, in the first place, because I rebelled against the idea of punishing God. I couldn't accept that kind of God, because there were so many experiences, real experiences, which I had, where God, I felt the love of God so much. So my real life experience was completely contrary to what people were challenging. And that is how I couldn't reconcile with the idea and I made it a point to try to let it be known to people,
Alex Ferrari 14:30
Even if you just look at the ideas of the 10 commandments, or even of the Old Testament God, from a critical standpoint, he's very jealous. He's very vengeful, he's insecure. You know, it's a fast if you just look at it from a psychological standpoint, the character that is painted in those in those stories, is extremely vengeful, extremely insecure, extremely egotistical. In the way that it's like you must have I am the only one you shall not. It didn't make much sense to me. I was like, wow. But when Jesus showed up and starts preaching all these things, he was a direct threat to everything that was brought before him, hence what happened to him. But if you truly go through his teachings, like Yogananda said, Jesus was crucified in one day, but his teachings have been crucified for over 2000 years. It's extremely, extremely true if you'd really listened to what Jesus was talking about. He was the first idea in the West, at least, that started to paint a picture of a different God. And we use the word God for lack of a better source, you know, you know, the one energy I am, whatever, whatever makes people feel comfortable, because God is a very loaded word nowadays, because of all of this programming that we've had over the years, right?
Rosaline Bosco 16:02
Yes, that is why I use the word universe instead of God, cooperate with your universe, right! So I substitute, I substituted the word, God with the universe, because I wanted to make it something common for everybody to understand and connect with.
Alex Ferrari 16:20
So then the concept of, of the devil is just another character created to instill fear, or in the form of punishment towards us.
Rosaline Bosco 16:32
Yes, definitely. And I think Jesus was meant to come to change that kind of consciousness or change that kind of an image, that religion, especially institutionalized religion, had tainted about God. And I think God Himself, wanted to wanted people to make an impact on the people to make a change in the minds of the people. And that is why Jesus had to come. And he's, he redeemed us from all those kinds of kinds of beliefs, which were built up by the Old Testament.
Alex Ferrari 17:21
And from my understanding from my studies, you know, Jesus did spend time in India, to my understanding he spent time there. learning, teaching, learning and learning from Yogi's learning, meditation, learning these kinds of concepts. These are ideas that I mean, Yogananda spoke about this, because a lot of the things that he teaches are very Eastern, they are definitely not Western, in idea, the idea of that they everything's within you, you have to go inward, the kingdom of heaven is inside of you, you can do whatever I can do even more. These concepts are definitely not Western, they lean more Eastern. And isn't Jesus very renowned in India and in the east?
Rosaline Bosco 18:03
Yeah, Jesus. There are a lot of institutions here, which have been begun by Catholics and missionaries, Christians, and there are hospitals, which have been initiated by people all over the world. So Jesus is very well known and well received here. Here in India, speaking of symmetries, think about when we speak about reincarnation, and these kinds of concepts. I don't, really, I doubt whether a person has to be born in a pot has to travel to a place or has to be born in a place to get these ideas. It might see, I believe that each one of us, when we awake at a particular point of time, we get, we get all the knowledge that we carry over from the past. So whatever it is, so I might have been born in the in the US and you might have been born, we have had so many past lives, that is what near death experience is telling us. So in that case, we unless we have something to establish the Jesus really came to India. The point is that he might have learned it, he might have he might have come with wisdom and the understanding that we accumulate with all experiences.
Alex Ferrari 19:52
And nowadays, you know, must have been more difficult 2000 years ago to come to this realization if there's no one teaching you how to access that knowledge, we're in today's world, this information like this conversation is online. And anywhere anybody in the world can hear this conversation and it could trigger a way to go down a path, start reading your book, start reading other books start thinking about are meditating things open up. But I'd imagine, you know, two or 3000 years ago, that was a much more difficult place, if you only stayed in this one little patch of land, and never exposed to anything else.
Rosaline Bosco 20:28
Yes, that is why we acknowledge him and appreciate him as a true revolutionary. Because even though he had this, to go within, he carried this concept of going within and saying that the kingdom of God is within, in the eastern part of the world. I am not sure who carried all these revolutionary ideas, as Jesus did, like, like turn your other cheek? When when Yeah, so this kind of forgiving forgiveness and unconditional love was unique to Jesus Christ. So
Alex Ferrari 21:16
In the Vedas, did they speak of anything like this in the Vedic texts in the Vedic text?
Rosaline Bosco 21:21
The Vedas, or maybe just see Hinduism as a way of life. So they have ingrained in them, for example, they are very tolerant, they practice vegetarian vegetarianism. And then there, there are genes who believe that they shouldn't even harm an insect. So it is, it is a way of a living for them. But I'm not sure whether it's explicitly mentioned as such. Texts, as much as Jesus keeps on repeating over and over again, through parables, and through story stories. And it was it's very, very simple. The reason why his Christ Consciousness has become so widespread is because it's very simple to follow, unlike the way the texts which can be read and understood by a privileged few. So that is where there is a little bit of so here in India, you you can't expect every day everybody to be so knowledgeable as to know the meaning of Sanskrit, in which the way that yeah, so even for me, I don't I don't know the language, I don't know Sanskrit. So as much as I know English, so it's difficult for me to go and interpret and learn that language. But whereas it is not so in the case of Bible, yeah,
Alex Ferrari 23:11
With with Jesus in his stories and the ideas that he was putting out, so he was yes. From from my, from my research as well. The simpler the explanation, the more powerful it is, if it gets too complex, too. And if I have to explain it to you, very deeply, sometimes it's it may be there's something off but like you said, those teachings of Jesus teachings from Yogananda teachings from Buddha, these are very basic ideas to help their truth, their truths, essentially that are that ring true. The second that you hear them, it's it's pretty, it's pretty fascinating how how Jesus was able to do what he was able to do, at the time, that he was able to do it. I mean, he only had a few years before they said, Enough is enough. We got to get rid of this guy. I mean, it was he only he only was you know, really preaching his for a few years before he finally said, No, you gotta go, does it it was too much of a threat to the establishment. And from your point of view, I mean, the ideas of the Old Testament the ideas of the established Western religions, was about control. It was about power and control of the people fear fear is still being taught today. Every single time you turn your television on, afraid, be afraid, be afraid the only truth is me or buy my product, because this is the only way you're going to be able to survive this this coming apocalypse of it's constantly like that and you keeping everyone fearful. Well, that's what the Bible was doing. Old Testament Bible at least, was doing to control the masses, because power and so on.
Rosaline Bosco 24:56
Yeah, they might the people at A highest level of hierarchy might have thought that this was the best way to make people listened to. So the like, for example, the 10 commandments. So when they spoke about the 10 commandments, they thought at sea, even this I see as an evolution of consciousness. So, see, at that point of time, people believed that this was the best way to take it to the people so that they would listen to fear. But then now, we have begun to understand, and we have began to ask questions. And with the evolution of consciousness, we know that the idea of a punishing God is really fictitious, it's wrong. And when you believe that God is your Father, that you lose the personal connection when you think that God is vengeful, so you have only fear and you hide from and you hide from God, we hide from God. So we don't have that real connection with God, that that is not a real connection. But now, I from my point of view, I feel that God is my Father, who will forgive me my trespasses, as he has said, in the as Jesus Christ has taught us in this in his prayer, so I believe that 100 person so I have more connection with God as my father, even though idea of portraying God as a father figure, or based on gender is being questioned these days, of course, because nd experiences are showing that God is formless, and God is pure light, and the angels and other every spirit guides de su forms, according to their according to our our expectations, and our belief systems. So this is what is. So we have come I think we have come a long way away from the punishing God. And people. I mean, these ending experiences, I think God itself is it's not an accident. Do you believe it's an accident? It's no, these are definitely not accidents. Yeah,
Alex Ferrari 27:37
No, there's no accidents at all. And again, from my experience, talking to so many NDErs, as well as that, you know, if you were Catholic or Christian your entire life, you know, Krishna is not going to show up for you. Like, generally speaking, that's not Jesus. I have a running joke on the shows. Jesus is the hardest working man on the other side, because he's everywhere. He's always helping people. He's always bringing people he's always in these near death experiences. But for others has been Buddha, there's been Krishna, there's been I started going deeper into indigenous near death experiences where they've never heard of Jesus. And I'm like, who shows up for them? How do they work through and and their experiences of a near death experience? It is pretty fascinating. And the one thing that you were saying, and I just want to kind of put a exclamation point on it is that we that we people projected human frailties onto God, as a character. And if people think that this is the only time it's happened, it's pretty much happened in every religion, ever. from Hinduism. I mean, there's a lot of humanistic elements to a lot of the Hindu gods, that mean the Greeks, alo Zeus, the you know, all these, I mean, they were, there was a soap opera going on, on Mount Olympus. You know, they were cheating on each other. They were having kids here and there. I mean, it was a pure soap opera. So if you start looking at it, from that point of view, you start to if you look at it critically, and I know somebody's listening right now, their foundation is they're fighting this, and that's okay. It's alright. You don't have to believe anything that we're saying. But if you start looking at it critically, and you just start going, huh? This is making sense. I might not like it what they're saying, but this is starting to make sense. And maybe this is a seed that will start people at least becoming curious. And reading and listening and watching more shows or listening to books or watching watching whatever to take them down a different path. Because like I said earlier that day, like if you believe if you have a belief system that is separate from others, that is a problem because God is all one the concept of all of us instead of i It's a we, we are all together in this we are all connected if I harm you, I'm harming myself. These concepts, as she as Jesus said, Do unto others as you would like to want to you See these kinds of concepts, if it's separation, or fear based, maybe you should start looking into something maybe you should start thinking about things slightly differently. So, I hope this helps in that manner. Now, I want to go into consciousness because that is another area, that you are very passionate about, what began, what began your journey to understanding consciousness. So, what is it specifically, what is your definition of consciousness?
Rosaline Bosco 30:33
Consciousness is imperceptible, it is unconstrained, it cannot be defined in the first place, your consciousness cannot be defined, but there are states of consciousness, the first state of consciousness, which you call the awake state, which is extroverted and which makes you look at the outside world and your activities everyday activities. So, that belongs to your gross body, that is the awake state. And then you have the dream state of consciousness, when your imagination and dreams come into play, and then you have the third phase of phase of consciousness, which is the dreamless state, which is sometimes people say that it is a dark place, but actually it is a dense place, it is it is very dense, and everything is everything is silent there, but, there is your pure consciousness, you will you cannot call it the fourth state that is called Turia, the man to care open a shirt, which was written after pride like first or second century AD speaks about Turia as unconditioned, unchangeable, non dual, which is Advaita. So, this Toria account this consciousness shines upon just like a light, just like a flashlight, it shines upon all the three other states. So, Turiya cannot be called the fourth level of consciousness, but it shines, it helps to show like a flashlight and a dark room, the true nature of all these three different states, the awake state, the dream state, and the dreamless state, and these stem from this consciousness and the storia is complete. It is divine, it is the divine part of every human being. That is pure consciousness. And we're just unconditioned. That is the mind. That's your definition. That's my definition of so.
Alex Ferrari 33:29
So the concept of conscious because I've had so many people on the show talking about consciousness is pretty fascinating, deep well of discussion, to say the least. But when you look at it from trying to really get into it, you're like, Okay, if you look at yourself, like I am, okay, I'm thinking I am thinking. And then there's a voice inside of you saying certain things about you. You're too fat. You're ugly. You're not smart enough. Well, that's the ego. That's the monkey brain talking. Yeah, yes. But there's something else behind that. That is, is aware of everything and watching everything. Yes. Yeah, that, to me, at least is consciousness or the higher self as the player in the game that we are the video game of life, if you will, well, we are avatars running around. They are the player playing the game in a crude explanation or analogy of it, but I think it kind of solidifies a little bit of what it is. Is that Is that fair? What do you think of that?
Rosaline Bosco 34:39
Yeah, definitely Alex. The only catch is that unless you come to the point of realizing that these these different states, the three states, the awake state, the dream state, so these are not Reality, but then there is a divine reality there is this consciousness, which never changes, until then your mind keeps on playing those mental games, if you cannot stop that, and again now type three a punish, it also talks about the five sheets sheets of consciousness, which are the first one is called the Annamaya Kosha Annamaya. Kosha is your physical self and Anam means food in Sanskrit refers to food. So it's made up of your physical body is made up of that and then you have the Pranamaya Kosha random Maya Kosha a Kosha means sheet. So, that is the oxygen and the energy that is surging through your body. The third one is called mono Maya Kosha mono Maya Kosha is your mind. So the mind is what keeps on going back and forth. And then you have the Vineya Annamaya Kosha, which refers to your cognitive abilities, your skills, and all that. And then finally, you have the Anandamaya Kosha, and in the Maya Kosha is bliss. So until you reach and Turia is separate from all these five different sheets of consciousness, when these ways are removed sheets of copper when these waves are removed. And a person begins to understand that all this materialism and all this running after and all this competition, is just an illusion. And the only thing that is, you are much more than that. Why do I want myself Why do I want to limit myself to an ordinary petty being who's running after so many other things when I am everything. So until a person comes to really realize his or her divine nature, life is really very difficult Alex fits, it's it's a rat race, and there's so many anxieties and frustrations and depression. So
Alex Ferrari 37:33
It's very interesting that you say that, because, you know, even in my own journey, it's taken me a while to figure that out. It took me a long time. And that's for many people, you know, it takes time before you figure out that this is, this is not real, what's important in life. And from somebody who was constantly hustling, constantly trying to control and gain and compete with others and all this. But when as you get older, you start to realize, hopefully, not everybody, but hopefully towards the end. When you're about to transition. You go, wow, that seemed like a lot of waste of time. Everything I did everybody, I hurt everybody, everything I did to accumulate more stuff, more things. There is no u haul, connected, no packing trailer connected to the to the hearse, you can't take it with, you really can't take it with you. And when you understand that, then if you can understand that earlier in life, life becomes a little bit more joy is to work through. So even now to this point where I'm at now, it's like, how much bigger of a box to live in, do you need, you know, after a certain level, there are certain things that have to be checked off security, you know, you know, protection from the elements, you know, food, things like, you know, a nice place to sleep, a comfortable place to sleep. Once you're done with all of that, you know, why do you need a 25,000 square foot home? Like me, to me it's even if I had a billion or $10 billion, I wouldn't. I would be more on the Steve Jobs side. Steve Jobs lived in a small neighborhood house and he was one of the richest people. But he also studied Yogananda a lot. So there's that.
Rosaline Bosco 39:31
But it would be a see I see those kinds of people around me also, but it would be really rude of me to go and break their break their illusion, because it's the day will come to learn it when it's the right time for them. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen to everybody at the same time. So
Alex Ferrari 39:56
But it's also dangerous to try to break the illusion as well. because if you challenge somebody's delusion, or challenge their foundation, that is when things happen, that's why I never preach, I never try to transform anybody in any any aspect, like, if you like PCs, I'm a Mac person, it's okay, enjoy your PC. You know, if you're an engineer, if you want an iPhone or a Samsung, if you want to eat meat or don't eat meat, if you want to believe in this or believe in that, if you start to challenge, that's when problems happen. Now, if they ask you questions, if you become curious, then you might be able to start dabbling a little bit, but you can't even then you still can't just pull the curtain back because it's too it's too jarring. It's today, it's the it's dangerous, it's really dangerous, because it can hurt the relationship, it hurt you. But it's interesting to see that.
Rosaline Bosco 40:57
So, there are say enlightenment has become a common term these days, like, many people are talking about enlightenment. So, unless you but there are so many steps, you need to you will need to pass before you reach that particular point of life. So, as you say, when you can you cannot go and tell somebody that these are the these are the facts of life, and you will have to listen to you will have to understand that. So, in consciousness, Sage Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, he has given up he has given now, seven steps towards enlightenment, there is a kind of a road route to enlightenment. So, you will have to tackle them one by one until you reach that particular place, which you're talking about your that means, your ability to give up things. So, the first one would be so, to reach this point of enlightenment, the first step is you need to have a longing for that. Unlike a longing for materialism, material things a longing for enlightenment. So that is called switch in Sanskrit. So that would be the first and the second would be self inquiry. So when we see things happening near and near death experiences happening, I mean, there are so many people who are interested in finding out more about these things. But at the same time, there are people who just say, No, it's just hallucination, when it happens to millions of people, still they can seem so, self inquiry is a very important aspect that would be the second stage, this is given by type three opposition. The third one would be Tano mannessah, which means a weakening of worldly desires, which you and I are discussing about. So, it's not necessary that I should have so much to make me happy, I can be happy with enough whatever is enough for me, as you said, the basic house some shelter, and see if this would be and the fourth stage would be self self realization, which is called sub chatter to apathy in Sanskrit. So, unless you realize that this is this world is illusory, you cannot come to that understanding. And then comes a stage of detachment, which is called a some sub t. So, as some sub t shows you gradually to move away from all this step by step. And naturally, when you have this kind of detachment, you travel to the next step, which is cessation of suffering, this is what Buddha was talking about all the time and say, desire is the root cause of all evil. So cessation of suffering. And finally you have a what is called Turiya or Turiya. So that is when you become one with the Divine and you don't have all these kinds of expectations, I think that's stage ma can be reached only by a very few people. And they are the sages and the Ascended Masters. And but nowadays a lot of People are getting into the mindset, what with climate changes, and so many challenges that we are facing today. People are beginning to understand that there is something there is a larger reality behind what we see.
Alex Ferrari 45:15
Oh, yes, there's no question. I mean, the explosion of the popularity of the show is a testament to that, you know, it's and it's not coming from an egotistical place, but I look at it from a place of, of service, and how many people from around the world are just dying for this information? They are so curious, more so than there was five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it seems to be amplifying, meaning that there's more people. And that the second is, you know, what's really interesting. The second that people find out what I do now. They have questions. They don't have damnation. And it's private questions, that public questions, because one thing is to be public one way another thing to be private, but privately I get conversations about, is this near death experience stuff real? Is? Are channelers real? Are mediums real? What did that Yogi say on your show? What did that spiritual master saying you? So are we in a simulation? What is quantum physics have to do with all of this? Like all these kinds of very large ideas? People are really curious, because they're starting to wake up and sense, even though they might not understand they're starting to sense that there is more to this? And do you believe that? I mean, I do believe that we're going through an awakening, and there's this great awakening happening on the planet right now. It is happening. But is that feeling where so many people are starting to question established, established systems that have been in place for hundreds of years, maybe even 1000s of years. I mean, you could look at the Catholic Church and the struggles it's been having over the last 20 or 30 years, and you know, things are going on decline. And our ideas of money, ideas of economics idea of, of competent, what's fair, what's not fair, all that kind of stuff. These are all revolutionary ideas that are starting to just pop up everywhere, where when I was a child, there was never even a conversation about this in the public.
Rosaline Bosco 47:23
I was lucky to be introduced in the into this, like, pushed into this, Alex, my childhood was completely innocent. I was I was a total, I mean, protected by Indian parents, protecting children, especially girl, children, girl child is very special, I was totally protected. And, you know, my mother's dead. That was, that was what led me to that. And afterwards, there were there were a lot of things. Instead of praying for my mother, which the Catholic Church generally says, Pray for the departed souls. So I had an urge in me to pray to my mother, because I believed in her sight, I believe that she was a kind of a saint. So I started praying to her. And that was when the magic started happening. There were so many incidents in my life, which led to this quest. I mean, see, people don't believe I, my regret is that people don't believe in angels as much as they believe in ghosts. So I, I believe that I always had a presence with me. And now I certainly believe that it was my mother who was with me all the time. And I used to hear a small object, especially when I was in deep contemplation and working in the kitchen, I used to hear a small object will be moved from one place, or just a paper fly from one place one place to another. So many of these things. Like for example, I had given a gift of a drill to a very close relative of mine. And she reported that the Journal had been lost. She couldn't find it wherever she kept it. So after some time when I visited her and I just had to keep my hand in the locker and I found that she felt so so many synchronicities happened in my life. And it was like they were, they were wanting me to wake up because I was, I was aware I was a person who was afraid of everything. I lift in total fear. And I also believe that I could control control everything the people around me I could save them. But then once when my husband he was diagnosed with a heart ailment, and he had to undergo angioplasty and even discussing this very seriously, and the doctor said said Doctor said, immediately if you have been reported to us, so that was when I remember a cocktail, he told me his book where he says, I wasn't able to live with myself. At that point of time, he says, I wasn't able to live with nice, and then he started question, then who is the other I who isn't able to live? So that is the part that key question. So that was the exact state. And at the time I just surrendered. I just surrendered. I prayed to the that was the first time I prayed to the universe, I prayed to the God saying, I cannot live with this any longer. Let me surrender. And afterwards, so many things started happening like magic. And there was so many angels around us. It was unbelievable. So, I mean, we have a lot of support, Alex, there are miracles happening every day around us. And only thing we dismiss them as coincidences.
Alex Ferrari 51:27
Well, let me ask you this, the and I agree, the exact same thing happened to me with the show is I surrendered. And the second I surrendered and it started, things started to open up, guests started to show up, success started to happen to this show that I was not. But it was because I surrendered and stop trying to control. And can you talk, I want you to talk a little bit about this concept of surrender. Because it's especially in the Western mind, there is this idea of control, and wanting to control everything, because that's the ego. Because the ego wants the ego doesn't want you to surrender because then it loses its control its power. But when you surrender to a higher, higher power than yourself, whatever you want to call it, the universe, God, source, whatever, when you surrender to it. I know people were like, well, if you surrender to it, then how do you live life, you can't just let something else control you. They have freewill. I mean, all this kind of these kind of ideas start to creep in these arguments start to creep in. And my explanation, from my own personal point of view, and I'd love to hear yours is when you surrender, you do not give up the control of the journey, you give up the control of experts expectation of what will happen. So you write a book, you want it to be read by millions of people. But if the expectation and you try to control that, that's when it doesn't work. But you still have to write the book. And once you write the book, you give it up, like I'm putting it out to the universe, whatever needs to happen for this to do this, or whatever this is supposed to do. For the best of myself and for the world. Let that be. And then but you still have to be active in this process. You cannot just sit down. So do you agree with that?
Rosaline Bosco 53:19
Yes, talented doesn't mean that you don't work for it. For example, when I wanted to move into a new house, I visualized how the how the house should be and I had an idea and now I I love just love this house. I just love this place. And I had to go go through a lot of hard work. I was definitely helped along the way. But then I don't get frantic about it i i Don't get frustrated about it. I put in all the hard work that I'm supposed to put in. And even the the show this interview Alex, how would How would I it is beyond my dreams to be invited to this show and talk to you. But then how does it materialize and why didn't did happen earlier. So there is not that kind of thing that is simply not in my hands. So things happen when they're supposed to happen and when you surrender. See, that is why the Course in Miracles is very very relevant because it shows you how the ego can manipulate you. The ego can say that. There is a quote in the Course in Miracles which goes like this. The ego shows you tells you that it can oppose God's will and present its own will as a gift to you. But how can we oppose Scottsville we Godswill can never be post. So. So the ego keeps telling you that can that you can fight against the situation and somehow make things happen. So surrender is having faith in God, and also doing your part at the same time. Because sometimes when you keep on struggling and struggling and fighting, then it becomes more difficult. So there is this idea of going with the flow, which means that you surrender, and let things happen after you've done your best.
Alex Ferrari 55:38
Right, it's, it's the is the attachment to outcome is the problem is that is the biggest problem we have is because if you have this attachment to outcome you want that's a form of control, you want to control it. And most of us are walking up river upstream. And it's very difficult, but the water is going to continue to run, no matter what you do. So if anyone's ever tried to walk upstream in a reverse, you will understand how futile it is. And you might be strong at the beginning, you might last an hour or you might last a day walking up. But at a certain point, you get tired, and you lie down and you let the water take you where it's going to take you anyway.
Rosaline Bosco 56:18
As long as I was resisting things in my life, I found it very difficult. And also there was so much psychological stress that was building up inside. So when I am that is the stage where you place real trust in God, isn't it. So when you surrender,
Alex Ferrari 56:43
To do this show was one of the scariest things I've ever had to do in my life. Because I was so fearful of losing everything that I'd done, because I hadn't come out of the spiritual closet yet. So once I surrendered, it taught me so much about the nature of reality. Because things happen and continue to happen with me in the show that are completely out of my control, I do not control the algorithm of YouTube, I do not control how people are finding me these are things that I have no control over whatsoever, but yet, it continues to happen. And yet it continues to grow. And yet things are happening that are completely out of my control, once I let go. And then I started seeing it in other aspects of my life. And then when things do suck, you know, when something negative comes into into the path, I look at it as an opportunity to grow, as opposed to oh, woe is me, Look what just happened to me. And it's not always easy. I'm not perfect yet. You know, it this is this is a process. We're all learning on this, you know, we're not all perfect. But you start looking at things a little bit differently. And go okay, well, this has been placed in my path. Why? Why is this here? What do I have to learn? How do I approach this? Okay, what are the lessons that I'm really needing to learn here, because I don't want to do this again. And these are the way I the way I walk the path now, as opposed to the way I used to word be fighting and very male energy of like, I have to control I have to dominate after compete. I have to do all of that. And at a certain point as at least as I've gotten older, it's become much easier to do this.
Rosaline Bosco 58:26
Yeah. Yes, then you are in a kind of a blissful state when you allow that to take over you instead of feeling disappointed all the time. Yeah, that helps. Yeah.
Alex Ferrari 58:42
So one last question I have for you. Where do you think the future of mankind is going with this great shift?
Rosaline Bosco 58:49
So I think many of us have gotten to this point into this bandwagon of consciousness. And, and I have a question for you, Alex. Yes. When would the picker I mean, the biggies really get involved in this. Because there are so many exciting things happening in near death experiences, which could be made into movies, like the secret or the soul, or even the ghost, which was an interesting movie. It's an automobile. So, this is the most interesting phase of humanity. And when, when is when are people who are of consequence going to take this opportunity and take it to the masses because I believe when people realize that materialism is just too devolution. So then they would, I mean, it's not as easy as I might make it sound. But still, the message once the message is even worse could be prevented. So I am hopeful for humanity, because with so many near death experiences and people coming back with the messages, saying, We were asked to speak about this to as many people. So this was many people, I've heard many people say, I was afraid to speak about this for 20 or 25 years. And now I've come out of the closet, and I am speaking about this. So there is a larger picture, and definite that something good is going to happen with all these things.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:51
I would, I would agree with you that and I've spoken to many of them that there's like, I haven't spoken about this in 20 years, but I decided to finally come out and talk about this. And, and I hear that again and again and again. But what is it about now, that is allowing people to do this, like and I've said this on the show before, as well as that this show wouldn't have worked 20 years ago, or 30 years ago, it would have been a very difficult thing, it might have not been the audience that is ravenous now for this information wasn't around 20 or 30 years ago, you know, now, it's becoming much more. I mean, if you if you just type in the word near death experience on YouTube, my God. I mean, there's so much information now with that, that was talked about like you're crazy. You're insane. These ideas that we're talking about so freely now. were looked upon even a decade or two ago, as you're on the outskirts, you're on the you're on the fringe of society talking about near death experiences and channeling and price consciousness and your whack job. We're in today's world, there's more and more people not only accepting these conversations, but want these conversations in their lives so they can truly look inward. And in what did you say the thing it was the second self inquiry. Inquiry Yeah, exactly. To to really start asking these deeper questions. And I do think that the pandemic did shake the world up with that because we all have to stop for a minute. Go wait a minute. I kind of like spending time with my family. I don't want to work and commute two hours a day. You know, these all these questions started to come up. And it was a jarring for the world. I've never seen anything like that just the whole world stopped for a month or two.
Rosaline Bosco 1:02:49
It was a blow to humanity though it was a blow to humanity on the one side it like shook us. It like made us sit up and and even a nature around us seem to be seem to have more freedom that point because we were over exploiting our natural resources. And the birds were coming out when human beings had to stay indoors. So I'm what what did what message did we get? What message did we get the message that the earth is also a conscious being and we are doing so much to hurt the earth for example, in 1818 z naught one, when Thomas Young's spoke about the nature of reality. So the dual nature of particles of atoms, people do not believe him. And now today, closer he speaks he has gotten Nobel Prize for Physics for his work on quantum entanglement. So but then how do we get the message across to people? So what what was discussed before two centuries has come to fruition now in this whole process
Alex Ferrari 1:04:17
Is a slower it's a slow process. And people still to this day in the Old School of Physics are like oh, this quantum physics stuff is ridiculous. It doesn't go along with our materialistic point of view constant Yeah, we can't we can't allow it but and for for over 100 years there's been honestly not a lot of of advances in quantum physics because there's just been this fight against it. Because it doesn't make sense to them. Quantum Entanglement completely throws materialism out the door and they cannot wrap their head. So just like Galileo look through the telescope we will not look through the telescope, we will kill you. Just look The information is right there. Look, look, look, no, we will not look through the telescope. And that's where we are now, I think in many ways,
Rosaline Bosco 1:05:06
Unlike Bruce Lipton and Gregg Braden, so there are very few people. I've I just watched the shows I just, even on your podcast, I bought tissues, they are absolutely brilliant. But then yeah, we are making at least we are making a headway in that direction. Yeah, when I grab it, sorry, I think the people over there are many old souls coming back. These old souls come with more knowledge. And that is why I presume that they can accept these things better than people who are like, the who are older or senior, these young, these young souls, these young children, even though they are young, they have so much inbuilt in them. So they're able to accept all these things. So
Alex Ferrari 1:06:05
I have children, I know what you're talking about it this new, the new generation coming up are accepting concepts that took me years to figure out and understand but for them, they're just like, What do you mean? You know, we shouldn't? What is racism? They think they can't grasp the concept to like, really, is that a thing? Or Wow, it's these these bigger ideas that we're fighting against? They just like no, of course, of course. I'm hopeful as well. I'm hopeful as well, Rosa. Now, I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Rosaline Bosco 1:06:43
A fulfilled life is life with your close your family, close ones and doing as much as you can, to the best of your ability for the people who who are close around you, your everybody might not be able to do a lot of social work. For example, my husband, as a social worker, he goes out of his way to help people, people who he meets on the road, and but then I do not, I don't have the opportunity to do that. But then even doing random acts of kindness. Whenever I have the opportunity that would really make a person that is my idea of a fulfilled life.
Alex Ferrari 1:07:26
How do you define God?
Rosaline Bosco 1:07:28
God is now that I've come to believe that God is an integral part of me, I feel very close to Him. And God has come to my rescue so many times. So my love for God is unconditional. Just like his love for me. He or She or how you preffer.
Alex Ferrari 1:07:58
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Rosaline Bosco 1:08:00
The ultimate purpose of life, near death experiences say that this life, which we find so challenging, is really an exciting opportunity. And it gives us so many flavors and tastes. But then so many of us struggle so much here. So it depends on what you I think that I think life is very exciting.
Alex Ferrari 1:08:31
t's, it's interesting to say the least, is extremely interesting. And where can people find out more about you and the books that you've written as well?
Rosaline Bosco 1:08:43
My books, you can find them on amazon.in, an amazon.com. And I've written another the third book, Co create with your universe. So that also can be found on Amazon, all over the world. And in India, you can find my books on notion press, or amazon.com.
Alex Ferrari 1:09:05
And do you have any final words for our audience, Rosaline?
Rosaline Bosco 1:09:07
Be happy, be satisfied, because you are much larger than what society has conditioned you to be. So whatever your circumstance, believe that you are upbeat, you are a part of the source. So that would be my parting words to all.
Alex Ferrari 1:09:33
Rosaline thank you so much for being on the show. This has been such a wonderful conversation and I truly hope it helps somebody out there listening to start walking the path of self inquiry and closer to source universe or God, whatever they'd like to call it. But I appreciate you and the work that you're doing in the world my dear, thank you so much.
Rosaline Bosco 1:09:52
Thank you so much Alex it's wonderful to be on the show. Thank you!
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