EXPOSED: Vatican REMOVED & BANNED This Book From the BIBLE! (Book of Enoch) with Paul Wallis

In the labyrinth of ancient mysteries, we find ourselves drawn to the tales that unravel the enigma of human origins and cosmic connections. On today’s episode, we welcome the insightful and eloquent Paul Wallis, a distinguished researcher and author delving into the profound narratives that challenge our conventional understanding of history. Paul Wallis, renowned for his work on ancient scriptures and the enigmatic Book of Enoch, offers a compelling perspective that bridges the chasm between ancient myths and modern discoveries.

Our conversation begins with a reflection on the anomalies within biblical texts. Wallis recounts his journey into ancient translations, revealing how fundamental meanings of key words can transform our understanding of these stories. “In my book ‘Escaping from Eden,’ I take the reader through the process of retelling these stories using the root meanings,” he explains. This approach led him to uncover connections between the biblical accounts and the Sumerian, Babylonian, Akkadian, and Assyrian narratives, suggesting a shared ancient origin.

Paul Wallis introduces us to the fascinating Book of Enoch, a text left out of the mainstream biblical canon but preserved in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. He describes the Book of Enoch as containing themes that were “off-syllabus” for forming the imperial department of religion, which sought to control narratives. The Book of Enoch, with its rich descriptions of ancient watchers and their interactions with humanity, offers a more complex worldview, hinting at ancient encounters and hybridization between humans and otherworldly beings.

The notion of ancient contact continues to captivate as Wallis discusses the concept of the Anunnaki, sky gods mentioned in both the Book of Enoch and Sumerian texts. These beings, he suggests, played a role in human evolution through genetic engineering and cultural exchange. Wallis highlights the recurring motif of hybridization and the transfer of knowledge, seen in the teaching of agriculture, crafts, and other advanced skills to early humans. This narrative of ancient visitors and their influence on human development is echoed in various cultures worldwide, reinforcing the idea of a shared historical memory.


  1. Reevaluating Ancient Texts: Wallis encourages us to revisit ancient scriptures with fresh eyes, using fundamental translations to uncover deeper meanings. This approach can reveal connections between seemingly disparate cultures and their shared narratives of creation and contact.
  2. Acknowledging Ancient Knowledge: The stories of the Anunnaki and other ancient beings remind us that humanity’s history is interwoven with cosmic influences. Recognizing these ancient connections can expand our understanding of human potential and our place in the cosmos.
  3. Embracing Conscious Evolution: Wallis’s insights into ancient contact suggest that humanity’s journey involves not only physical evolution but also the development of consciousness. By exploring these ancient narratives, we can unlock deeper aspects of our own spiritual growth and potential.

Throughout our conversation, Paul Wallis emphasizes the importance of understanding our ancient origins to grasp the full spectrum of human potential. He points out that stories of ancient contact, hybridization, and technological exchanges are not merely myths but encoded memories of humanity’s past. By decoding these narratives, we can reclaim lost knowledge and insights that can guide us toward a more enlightened future.

In conclusion, the profound wisdom shared by Paul Wallis invites us to explore the depths of our history with curiosity and an open mind. His work challenges us to question the established narratives and to seek out the hidden truths that lie beneath the surface of ancient texts. As we embrace this journey of discovery, we move closer to understanding the true nature of our existence and our interconnectedness with the cosmos.

Please enjoy my conversation with Paul Wallis.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 449

Paul Wallis 0:00
What got me into the whole area of ancient contact was doing this translation work in the Bible around anomalies in the stories we tell things that don't quite make sense in the text. And I asked myself what happens if we use more fundamental translations if we use the root meanings of the key words. And in my book escaping from Eden, I take the reader through that process, I retell the stories using the root meanings. And it became clear to me immediately the stories hadn't changed in a random way. I was now reading the summary form of the Sumerian, Babylonian, Akkadian and Assyrian stories.

Alex Ferrari 0:49
I like to welcome the show Paul Wallis. How you doin Paul?

Paul Wallis 0:51
Good day Alex, it's great to be with you today. And I'm tiptop.

Alex Ferrari 0:54
I appreciate you coming on the show my friend, I'm a fan of the work that you've been doing on YouTube and everything you do, talking about ancient civilizations, and, and just all the origins of humanity and all the things that you do. So I appreciate you doing this good work out there getting out this information to the world, because as we were talking about earlier, there is a hunger for this information. There's a lot of people who is curious and not really not really buying the narrative of the of the traditional academic narrative of human origins. I mean, I always found it kind of ridiculous that was like, oh, it's Oh, yeah, we're 5000 6000 years tops old, you know, and we like, test doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And then I started. And then of course, we can go into the deeper worlds of how old we are, and all that kind of stuff. But the first thing I wanted to talk to you about Paul is the Book of Enoch, which is a very mysterious book that was left out of the Bible purposefully. And I talked about the Council of Nicaea on the show cons all the time. And people were like, what there was a council that put the Bible together and like, yeah, yeah, it wasn't, didn't come from a mountaintop somewhere. It was a bunch of guys, editing things they wanted out and putting things in that they needed to control the populace, and so on and so forth. But the Book of Enoch is one of those texts that survived over these over these hundreds, if not 1000s of years. What do you know what your understanding of its ancient origins and the spiritual narrative that we're kind of left out of the main narrative?

Paul Wallis 2:31
For sure. Well, it is a fascinating book. And I should say hats off to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which has always kept the Book of Enoch in its canon of Scripture. And the Ethiopian canon is the longest continual, biblical canon in Christian history. They kept it in they weren't concerned about it. But when the Hebrew canon was being revised in the Common Era, and as the Christian canon was being put together, those editors, as you say, decided, best to leave it out. And it was because it included themes that were really off syllabus, in terms of forming certainly in terms of forming Imperial Christianity, which morphed very quickly into the Imperial department of religion, whose agenda was to give a religious imprimatur to the feudalism of the empire, obviously, why would you choose any other kind of religion, but to make Christianity work that way, they had to distort it, and they had to control what was in the canon ultimately, and the themes that were in the Book of Enoch that were unhelpful. What a far more complex worldview, a worldview that is hinted at, in the canon that we now have when we all go to a bookshop and buy our Bibles, but not unpacked to the degree it is in the Book of Enoch. Now it isn't ancient book. And when you read it, it's clear you're reading the world explained through an ancient lens. But anomalous information starts appearing in the text. So there are accounts of some kind of, well, we would call it a close encounter, we would call it a craft, we would call it first contact. And the first contact that's described in the Book of Enoch is with a group of people called the watches who have been observing the planet from on high. Well, today, we would say out of space, and then at some point, a group come they have disobeyed some kind of prime directive, and they're now going to breed with the human beings. They have decided that Earth girls are hot, they want some of this action. And there's this story of hybridization that happens which creates a great state Think among the gods. It's a breach of protocol, it shouldn't have happened. Now we've got hybrid human and watcher wandering around. But it's not an Invasion of the Body Snatchers kind of scenario, there's actually a positive aspect to this encounter as well. The writer of the Book of Enoch talks about a rich cultural exchange between a civilization that's landed on a planet, and our ancestors who are already here. And so it talks about learning, agriculture, and then more entertaining things like hair and makeup and nicer clothes and jewelry. And it sounds like there's quite a party going on back in the deep past. And it's all there unpacked in the Book of Enoch, but not what was wanted for mainstream Judaism or Christianity. Now, we still have references to that narrative in the Bible, as we have at Genesis six has a summary form of this storyline in the Book of Enoch, and the writer of Genesis six assumed his reader knows the Book of Enoch. Jude in the New Testament assumes we know the Book of Enoch and quotes it word for word, when he references the biblical Enoch from the book of Genesis. And it's a reminder and this reminders repeated all through the Old Testament through the Hebrew Scriptures, the ancient writers expected us to read the Bible, in the context of a a world family of narratives a world family of literature, so that we would get to this and say are yes, the ancient hybridization are yes, the ancient et visitors? Oh, yes, the ancient craft that used to visit us. But once you're reading the Bible all on its own, and many Christians boast, it's the only book they read. When you read it on its own, you don't have that context. You don't say, Oh, I recognize the pattern. And over the generations translators have presented these stories in a more spiritualized way, and haven't had the technological frameworks we have today to understand what's in the original texts. But through my books, the Eden series, I show that we can go back to the Hebrew original texts, this is the wonder of the Bible and say, I'm not sure that was translated quite right, what's the root meaning of these words again, and that's been my approach into this whole other layer of story. And it's a story that gives a totally different explanation of human origins, human potential, and our place in the cosmos.

Alex Ferrari 7:44
So you mean to tell me that before you mean, the world wasn't created 6000 years ago, and we should just ignore the dinosaur bones that we find?

Paul Wallis 7:53
Well, I'm sorry to shock you. We certainly should not ignore the dinosaur bones. My children will be horrified by just we ever did that. But yes, the timeline of humanity really is a very interesting topic indeed. And just in the last 25 years or so, discussion among polio biologists about human origins has really shifted. And when you and I were at school, yes, that was the story. We were told that to all the human races, the Sumerians were the first civilization, although probably we weren't even taught about them at school, we'd be taught about the Egyptians and Romans. But we wouldn't go back to cities springing out of nowhere, raising the obvious question of how on earth do human beings do that? When we're thinking about human origins, early humans, hominids, the timeline has been pushed far further back than I was taught. And so I think there's quite a consensus that humans have our build design, and roughly intelligence had been around for at least 200,000 years. And some of the measures that we take for evidence of human culture would take us back about 1.4 million years, when you're looking at artifacts use of fire, that sort of thing. And the store has become more complex, we've dug up more types of human. And so now it's not just one missing link, we're looking for. It's an explanation of half a dozen different human species who coexisted on a planet before. We obviously got the upper hand. So even in the mainstream consensus of human origins, the stories become far more interesting.

Alex Ferrari 9:46
It absolutely and in the Book of Enoch, and when I've done my studies into the Sumerians and Babylonians, you start going into those worlds and there's these pesky pesky sky gods that show up a call the Anunnaki in the Book of Enoch, and by the way, and for people who are listening, the sky god, storyline is in indigenous cultures around the world. For as long as we can remember, I mean with 1000s of years, these stories were passed along about sky gods coming down and talking about this. And so it's it's, it's literally on stone in in the Sumerian Sumerian texts, as well as the art of the monoliths and things like that, that we've discovered. But it's the Annunaki in the Book of Enoch, or a version of that in the Book of Enoch.

Paul Wallis 10:42
Oh, yes. So when I talk about the watchers in the Book of Enoch, and this hybridization moment, that is a restatement of what you can find in the Enuma Elish and the other ancient Sumerian texts regarding the observers who came down and hybridized. It's the same story. And the observers introduced in Genesis 11. In the biblical version of it. This is the story of the Tower of Babel. And even in the translation today, you would read it and think what's really going on here, because it says that tower or whatever it was, was a construction to get people to the heavens or so people could reach the heavens. Well, as soon as you realize that the heavens was just an ancient way of talking about the sky and deep space, and then realize that a civilization was bombed out of existence, because that's what they were doing. You realize there's a bit more going on here Regenesis 11, alongside the Sumerian original, because that's where the biblical texts come from. And there's a little bit more finessing to the story. And we're told about 50 technicians who dispatch, I think it's 300 observers from ancient Iraq, to their stations in the stars. And now we begin to realize, wait a minute, this is either a launch pad or a portal and we're talking about a civilization reaching spacefaring capacity. And then off planet visitors deciding they don't want a planet Earth that spacefaring. And so there's this great conflict. And so that's just one instance of an overlap of story. And the reason the similarity story is so interesting to me, is that that is where many of the biblical narratives come from. What got me into the whole area of ancient contact was doing this translation work in the Bible around anomalies in the stories we tell things that don't quite make sense in the text. And I asked myself, What happens if we use more fundamental translations if we use the root meanings of the key words, and in my book escaping from Eden, I take the reader through that process, I retell the stories using the root meanings. And it became clear to me immediately, the stories hadn't changed in a random way. I was now reading the summary form of the Sumerian Babylonian Akkadian, and Assyrian stories. And as I follow that White Rabbit, I remember that about 150 years ago, when we started translating the q&a forms of those ancient cultures. That's when we discovered Oh my goodness. This is where the story of Eden comes from. This is where the story of Babel comes from. This is where the story of Adam and Eve comes from. And as you rightly say, Alex, these are not God stories. The Sumerian stories are not about gods they are about sky people, or a nooner in the Sumerian or Anunnaki in the Akkadian. And the word indicates people who came from the sky and the drama of the story tells you that so many of the stories begin with the advanced beings coming down from the sky. In the Bible, the advanced beings are called the Elohim. in Samaria, they were the Noona. In Mesoamerica, they were the feathered serpents in the Vedas, they were the kings with their advanced flying technology. And you're right, Alex, the narrative is all around the world. And it was as I took the time to read the Bible in the context of world literature and ancient indigenous story, I realized that the themes that repeat from culture to culture are all about external interventions from beings that you and I would call extraterrestrials.

Alex Ferrari 14:50
It's fascinating because it's in every culture, it's like in all the major cultures of the world, and yet they've never been taken seriously. They said, Oh, it's just stories or its myth, and I, and I'm saying to myself, I was talking to somebody the other day about it, I go, you know, if you meet Paul want to sit down and write a book, it's fairly easy. Even 50 years ago, if you want to write a book, I mean, you could do it longhand with some pencil and paper, then the typewriter showed up. Now we could do it on computers, we could even dictate books now, very easily. So creating a story out of thin air, not a heavy lift for us other than the creative lift. But back then, to get a piece of stone, or clay, and chisel out the words of a story. Seems to me that was much more intentional and not a throwaway. Because the amount of effort it would take to not only construct a stoking, there's no white out, and I'm not even dating myself with a white out, there's no white out, there's no delete button. They were very conscious with every word they put down, how they put it down. And there was a purpose behind there's an intention behind it, not in one culture, but in multiple cultures around the world. So that's why I find it fascinating that made the mainstream does not. At least when we were growing up, it's been even longer. They weren't even they wouldn't even acknowledge that they wouldn't even look at it. They're like, Oh, that's meant that story, because they can't explain it. And it doesn't make sense through their lens of current days. And I was talking to Chris Dunn the other day, about the technology of the past. And I go we they only look at the past archaeologists look at the past through the lens of our technology today. So if they didn't have an iPhone, they were obviously savages. But yet, maybe they had a different type of technology that was more advanced than us, but in a different way. Maybe understanding magnetism, gravitational pole, maybe being able to use the earth as a battery based on the quartz in the rocks and things like that. Maybe the pyramids are power station around the world, and why are they all around the world? And why are they all on the 29th Parallel? These are all questions that start to come up. Questions. So I find it fascinating. Yeah, I find it fascinating.

Paul Wallis 17:17
That point you made about how difficult it was to create these records compared with today where we can tap something out on our phone or our laptop, that's a very good point. Because these ancient texts we were just talking about were glyphs in clay, or glyphs in stone. And next month, I'm going to Turkey to the lake van region. And I'm going to look at narratives that were etched with glyphs, and reliefs carved into basalt. And the effort it would take to carve into Basalt is extraordinary if you're trying to use Bronze Age or Iron Age tools. That's a pretty major commitment right there. Because we would be using what tungsten carbonized we'd be using diamond grazers in diamond to work. So it shows you how important these memories were that they etched these stories in the way they did, using motifs that recur all around the world. The importance of the narrative is also shown by the efforts, cultures have gone to, to extinguish these stories. So these stories of ancient contact, ancient interventions in human evolution, they exist at the folkloric level. In any country. This is not what you're taught at school, but it will be the traditional knowledge. And an example of what happens we could go to Central and South America. Look at what happened when the Spanish arrived. With the letters patent from the King of Spain, and the Pope,

Alex Ferrari 18:59
The priests behind them and the priests behind them. Yeah,

Paul Wallis 19:01
And the priests and bishops with them, because this takeover was achieved by military, some of which were commanded by bishops. And they kept a log of what they did. And when they went in, they weren't really copious in destroying these ancient narratives as they existed now, the Mayan culture still survived, and still survived in certain regions like Guatemala, and they had left behind a massive library of literature full of these kinds of stories. And the Spanish looked at these and said, Well, these can't survive and burn their libraries to the ground and recorded the fact they were doing this. And it was only sort of 200 years later that we found out some of the wisdom that was in the Mayan literature, and it was a totally different story of human origins. Now I argue that if the Spanish had been reading the Bible by the root meaning gangs, they just said, Oh, we recognize these stories we know about the Skype people we know about genetic engineering. But they didn't, the q&a forums had not yet been discovered or translated. They looked at this and said, Oh, this is akin to witchcraft. This is just devilish stuff, because it wasn't Catholic orthodoxy. So they stamped that out, to delete and replace it with Orthodox Christianity. And that's what Christian empires have done all through history, whether it's the Spanish or the Portuguese, or the Dutch or the British. We go in, and we replace the traditional knowledge. Now, this is history within my own family line, it happened within Garner, although, with less violence, what happened there was that under British rule, if you were gone a man and you wanted to get on, then you would learn to speak the Queen's English with an English accent, thank you very much, and you would dress British, and you would distance yourself from your mom or your art or your grandma, if they were still following the old ways and telling the old stories, which includes stories of contact and abduction, to do with a non human presence on planet earth. No, no, no, no, that's all witchcraft. That's idolatry. Forget that. And it was really through a cultural pressure, that those stories were suppressed, pushed down. And that's been done around the world as well. But the indigenous knowledge always survives. And despite these really intense efforts that involve killing priesthoods, and burning all their literature and banning books, the index librorum prohibit Toram. All the books Catholics are not allowed to read, all these efforts, ultimately fail. At the folkloric level, the memory of what happened in the deep past survives. And that's where I go in my books to get a different answer to Who are we? And what company are we living our lives in.

Alex Ferrari 22:07
And, and again, for people listening, when these stories are told through the Book of Enoch, and through the clay tablets, and all of these things that we're talking about. They're told us stories, not as a nonfiction book, quote, unquote, but it's stories with characters and ups and downs, and bad guys and good guys, and because that is how story translates the meat and potatoes of a society. It's just like George Lucas did with Star Wars, we will be talking about Star Wars for another 100, 200, 300 years later, to a point where they might not even see the movie ever. But the story might still ring true. Who knows if that'll ever happen? Or I always joke, I'm like, yes, in 500 years, someone's going to look backward 1000 years. And if we've done something wrong, and maybe just a few of our stories have been left behind. And the natives of that time it looked back, they pick up a comic book, and they're gonna go Oh, Superman was Kyle was the God and they have a whole religion that goes around Kyle, who is Superman and Clark cut. That could could happen. But it's just fascinating. That story is so imperative, in moving our knowledge forward, because a good movie, I come from filmmaking, I come from Hollywood, a good movie, holds a good book, hold, we're still talking about Dickens, we're still talking about Shakespeare, because of the power of stories. So it's really fascinating.

Paul Wallis 23:37
That's very true. I love how you put that Alex, these cultures chose the medium of story, to maintain their cultural memory for hundreds and 1000s of years. And the reason the story will survive is because it is resonant because when people hear it, they they can feel there's something in this, there's something important about this. And they're crafted with such care and beauty, that people will say, I love this story. And I will preserve it and tell it very carefully. And indigenous cultures often have quite strict protocols for training, the guardians of story to ensure that the story doesn't change, and the sequence of Chinese whispers through the generations. And there's a reason that some contemporary story has that resonance if you go to the Marvel Universe, and what's more recent movies, it is full of ancient wisdom. It's full of Plato. It's full of stoicism. It's full of ancient Sumerian story is not an accident, because writers or readers, the writers know these ancient stories and are quite consciously sewing them in to the film, so that when people watch the film, there's a weight to it. And the story sticks with them, people feel there's something to this. If you read the Edgar Rice Burroughs stories of Tarzan or the Rajon Kipling story of Mowgli in The Jungle Book, there's something very resonant about that story of a wild human, a hairy human living among the animals, who is met by a sophisticated female who symbolizes the wild man and brings him into the city. Now that story is far older than Edgar Rice Burroughs and rajgad Kipling, it is told in the earliest written story known to humanity, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and it is the retelling of the story of Enkidu, the primitive human who is upgraded and adapted through introduction to different foods by a female sky being called sham hat, so that the human being can go from living wild among the animals, to living in cities, where the human being according to the Babylonian story then becomes the working class for the sky people. So it's an ancient ancient story that keeps getting re told. And the reason it's resonant is because it's human memory. And I think we sensed that when we read it, but as soon as you start reading the family of world literature, you recognize the patterns. And you say, there has to be a reason it's told in this culture and this culture cultures that seemingly had no contact with each other at different periods of history. And it was those correlations that first got my attention. And that pulled me into the whole world of paleo contact.

Alex Ferrari 26:50
In from coming from the world that I have come from, which is Hollywood and having a podcast in that space, I've been able to speak to some of the greatest storytellers of our time, and also story gurus, if you will, who understand story at such a deep level that they're the ones who teach the screenwriters and the filmmakers about story. And I've had deep, deep, deep conversations with them about the stories that we've all heard of the hero's journey, Joseph Campbell's hero's journey. There's a reason why that story rings, so true to us, because it's a example of our own life is the soul's journey. It is so many different things I

Paul Wallis 27:29
I don't want to interrupt. But Joseph Campbell was such an interesting discovery for me. Because as I was doing the research that led to escaping from Eden and the whole series, it grew out of a period of study where what I thought I was doing is preparing my next sermon series because my background is in Christian ministry, 33 years in church based ministry. And I knew there were these anomalies in Genesis, I'd never got my head around these plural, gods, these plural Elohim. So I started studying, I did a sermon series on different characters in the Bible, and I tried to do it at greater depth than I'd ever done before. And I started thinking, Wait a minute, all these characters, whether I'm looking at Adam, or cane, or King David, or Abraham in Isaako, Jacob, the story is all following the same shape. It's the same story told over and over again. Now, I had never heard of Joseph Campbell when I made this discovery, but I started piecing it together. And as soon as I realized somebody had spotted this before me, and a book about it, a few bugs. Okay, you've missed something, Paul, and all the 30 years you've been preaching, there's a whole layer you need to get into here. So I just thought I'd mentioned that.

Alex Ferrari 28:56
Yeah, it's when I when I mean, I was introduced budget to Joseph Campbell's work, but to Star Wars from Star Wars because as a filmmaker, you watch Star Wars is one of those films you watch. And it is the most perfect representation of the hero's journey, the first Star Wars, the 77 Star Wars of the hero's journey, such a great representation and Lucas worked with Joseph Campbell, he was a mentor of his and was bringing him the script and showing him Am I hitting this right Am I hitting that right? Am I getting the court jester character right, am I getting the villain right is this the proper obstacle here? And it is, it is fascinating, but going back to the book of Gilgamesh Epic of Gilgamesh, I was I was speaking to somebody the other day about the Epic of Gilgamesh. And I discovered that the, the story of Noah, the story of the Great Flood is again, in many, many, many cultures around the world. There's always this great flood story. But then I discovered that it's in The Epic of Gilgamesh, it's literally in The Epic of Gilgamesh. And that's older than all the stories that we have of currently that we have discovered. So, arguably, this is the origin story of Noah. And it's the origin story of many as we've discussed of many of our common stories that come from the Epic of Gilgamesh just retold again and again. So then you have to ask yourself, well, obviously there wasn't a Noah. And there wasn't a big boat back, but was there some form of that. That made sense. There was some sort of record of that. Maybe not the way the Bible portrays it, or Russell Crowe did in his amazing movie Noah Theron Aronofsky movie but is there a common the combination of there's the right there's what you think what I think and the truth is somewhere in the middle between all these stories, truth if you're enjoying this conversation, I invite you to go deeper down the rabbit hole with me on next level soul TV. It's packed with exclusive content like live special guests Q and A's daily podcast commercial free access to the entire next level soul catalogue early access to episodes before they air and special meditations you won't find anywhere else. We will be adding new exclusive content every month. Plus, you can connect with me during my monthly live streams. Just go to and join our soulful community today. I'll see you on the inside.

Paul Wallis 31:27
Well, you have to ask why so many cultures around the world have a flood narrative? Why so many stories of origins begin in a flooded world. Now that's the case in the Bible. One of the anomalies I'd spotted is that before the Let there be light, and that whole process of creation begins. The planet already exists. So wait, what what's going on there before the sun, the moon and the stars the planets already here. And it's flooded and in a state of chaos. And then the Elohim arrive in there ru R which I argue is a craft that creates water ceases when and they start rehabilitating the flooded land. That's the hidden layer a story in Genesis chapter one. And if you go to the Sumerian text to the Enuma Elish, it begins with the separation of waters the separation of freshwater from saltwater, and then the separation of lands from water that's there, it's in the Bible, you can go to the Philippines. Their story of origins is the same the clearing of floodwaters from the high ground before life can be nurtured. If you listen to stories from Central and South America, their creation stories creation stories begin on a flooded world that has to be rehabilitated, you can go to Africa, listen to the story of Santa bois, the Almighty wiener bye above the waters, who comes and clears water from the land so that life can be nurtured. And then the life is governed by the sons of Sun Ebola. All around the world. There's this rehabilitation of a flooded world. In Genesis one to 11, you've got probably three different narratives of flood to have been sewn together in Genesis six, and will begin on a flooded world in Genesis one. So I think there probably was a flood event that our ancestors were totally unable to forget. But these stories are a very interesting fusion of what's been remembered, and what's been forgotten. But visitors coming when we were on the brink of extinction, clinging to life in a flooded world. That is an almost universal story. The Iroquois have a version of that story as well. And so then how does the Noah story fit into that it is fascinating. The Noah story is the biblical version. And then we've got a couple of versions referenced in The Epic of Gilgamesh. And so throughout Mesopotamia, we hear of Archer hausys, who'd not pushed him, as you sudra. And curiously, the measurements of the escaped craft that the Noah character has for him and his farm, give a volume that only varies by about 4% across four cultures telling that story across centuries. So there's some very unusual precision in it. And then some interesting details around who warned the knower figure who initiated the flood and the story because it's not presented as an accident. It's it's described As an attempt to get rid of the human population, and again, it's the correlations that make you stop and ask, wait, what? What is this? This isn't just a fable. There's something else going on here. Even if we don't read it in a fundamental way, as science or as a diet diary entry of what happened. There's some memory that's being carried by the stories and the correlations have made me go back to many texts with a quite different question than the one I began with. And the question I go back to now is, what memory was this story designed to carry?

Alex Ferrari 35:39
So then let me ask you, is this the Younger Dryas that happened 11,000 to 12,000 years ago? Or is this an earlier flood, or an earlier extinction event? Because again, if you start going back into the yugas, this the 26,000 year cycle that happens throughout humanity, you start enlightened, you go down to the Dark Ages, and you come back to the Enlightened time. And that's in 26,30,24,26 that's confusing, but 24 36,000 cycles. So that would mean that we would have and there is actual geological proof now, from what I understand of events happening every 10 to 12,000 years, something the Younger Dryas and then there's the older drought, there's a couple of other dryness in there. So where does this story come from? Is it from the most recent one? Or is it from 50,000 years ago, that we are 100,000 years ago, and it's just been carried on throughout this time, the cycle of high high enlightenment, high technology, loss of everything, high technology, loss of everything. And I always bring out to people like, you do realize our society is extremely fragile. I mean, we the whole thing that we've built, the whole thing we've built up over the last, I'm arguing last 300 years, 400 years is where a lot of the bulk of what we've done really the last 150 the bulk of a lot, a lot of the stuff we have but but let's say the fight last 500 years. It's extremely fragile. I'd argue that our, our, our society 500 years ago was more robust. A could handle something like that, because they didn't have technology. They understood the land better, they understood how to most people understood how to farm most people understood how to, you know, kill an animal to make food if they had to. We are just babes in the woods right now. You lose power in any of these major cities in the US and everyone just loses their minds. So anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Paul Wallis 37:40
Yes, I think you're right, I think it is disturbing to realize how fragile our civilization is. And then disturbing to realize we might not be the first civilization here. And that previous human civilizations and maybe civilizations prior to homosapiens have come and gone. Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher argue that every 5000 years or so, we should expect to see an extinction level event from which the very least civilization has to reboot, and maybe to an extent, world ecology has to reboot. When I started researching paleo contact and the research path that led to escaping from Eden, I thought, Oh, yes, this must be the Younger Dryas cold period. And the flooding that would have happened at the tail end of that, or maybe at the beginning of that. And I do think we have a lot of stories that come from the tale period of the Younger Dryas cold period about 10,000 years ago. Except that the more you read the ancient stories, you you realize you're reading the library of stories that have been layered on top of each other. There may be just like in Genesis six, more than one flood narrative that's been sewn together, we can find the megalithic remains of cities that would predate the last ice age. So you've got the beginning of the Younger Dryas. Yes, that's right. Exactly, and the end of the Younger Dryas and then prior to that even next month, I'm going into the lake van region, where megalithic remains at the bottom of Lake van suggests a far longer timeline. And as you suggest a cycle of destructions of culture and it doesn't take long for a civilization to disappear. Right now we're using ground penetration, radar soil magnetization technology lidar to find cities in the Amazon. And we can find these huge cities to rival anything that was happening in Europe at that time massive cities, from shore to shore. And we're talking about common era cities, we're talking about cities that were there in the 1500s. And yet now or you can see as jungle, that's how quickly nature reclaims a lost civilization. And if you can walk through a jungle and not realize you're walking through an ancient city, and it's only 500 years old, then what a cities that were here 10s of 1000s 100,000 years ago.

Alex Ferrari 40:33
And let's not even talk about Antarctica, which is a whole other mystery of, of what would I mean, if, if an article one point which it's what is understood is true, was not under ice, and was actually green and fertile. Well, if there was animals or humans on the planet, more than likely they would have made it there at one point or another, and the positioning of it even the cycle of the last 50,000 years, 100,000 years is not where it is now. You know, 100,000 years from now, an article will probably be Miami is I don't know, and Miami might be under the water completely. Actually, Miami might be under the water in my lifetime, as things are continuing to go the way they are. It is it is fascinating. I have to ask you about the Bhagavad Gita, which is another an ancient text, the great Indian, ancient texts, they talk about sky beings, they talk about wars, new killer, new killer, or these light weapons that kill a lot of people and, and their skin is blue. Why is their skin blue? Like what is that? What is that? Why is that is the thing. And this has been around what how old is the Bhagavad Gita, we're talking about 6000 years old, like, if not the Vedic texts, they say, go back. Even older than that, how old is the Vita and

Paul Wallis 42:03
And the stories are older than the texts, of course, because many of these stories exists, as oral tradition long before they're written down. And what I find interesting about the Vedic tradition, and it's not something I've really probed up until now, I hope I've got enough life left to really get into the Vedic tradition, because it is so rich. And what is so different about it compared with the traditions we're familiar with in the West, is those texts are very open about ancient technology. So when it talks about the craft, that these blue people would fly around in, it's specific, that they were craft that they were fueled in this way that these were the speeds they could attain. This is what their technology looked like when it obliterated cities. And when we read the descriptions of the wars, as you rightly say, Alex, we look at it and say, That's a nuclear strike, isn't it? When you look at the aftermath of it, when you look at how it happened, they clearly have technology like laser beams for the purpose of war. And it's there, it's just stated that way, you know, whether you say it's just a story, or if you think there's real human memory in it. At the very least the story is open. We're talking about technology. Whereas you come to the Bible. It's full of very similar narratives. Technology is described flying craft spacefaring craft, weapons of mass destruction. In the book of Ezekiel, we've got handheld equipment, that if you can give it to six individuals, you could ethnically cleanse an entire district. And this is something that is EQ witnesses to his absolute horror. We've got stories of obliteration of entire cities, of course, in the book of Genesis. And yet, translators have taken those texts, and said, well, there was no ancient technology. So these must be spiritual stories. And so they use spiritual language to tell a story, which somewhat obscures what's going on, but not completely. And if you read Exodus, and Ezekiel, for instance, slowly enough, you'll realize you're reading stories very, very similar to the stories in the Vedas, and these battles in the sky. They are referenced in the Bible. There's a great long section of the Enuma Elish, which can be summed up as there was war in the heavens, and it was with technology. So I really would like to study the Vedic texts, more extensively in the future because I love how unashamed they are about the technological aspect, and also how unwarranted they are about describing a populated universe. In 1600, Giordano Bruno was executed by the Roman Catholic Church for merely suggesting we might have populated planets elsewhere in the cosmos, this was regarded as impossible and heresy and an assault on Catholic faith. And so they burned him alive for everybody to see, this is what happens to you if you speculate about these things, and yet in the east, totally uncontroversial. People have been reading it and believing it for centuries and the sky have not fallen. So I think the integration of world thought there's a lot of information that can be gleaned in that way.

Alex Ferrari 45:52
Well, also don't forget the Catholic Church was very quick to pardon Galileo, it only took about 500 years. 1986 is when they officially pardoned him. For his heresy of, you know, the Earth is not the center of the universe. Yeah, and I've got proof. So they've been a little slow.

Paul Wallis 46:14
And 409 years to get from burning Giordano Bruno to telling the faithful they should all be thinking about a populated cosmos.

Alex Ferrari 46:22
It's absolutely insane. What I find about a Find out more fascinating as well, is that you're saying that the mainstream or you know, the academics will look at those stories. I'll go obviously, there's no technology like this in the past, these must just be stories. Well, if they were writing stories back then where are the where's the Stephen King's of the day, like how many more like there aren't many more of those kinds of stories, it's not like they created in 1984, they created a Star Wars scenario. There is no other stories, a lot of them. Because if you think of culture 1000s of years ago, we're just doing narrative stories just for fun like we are, that there's literally 10s of 1000s of stories being written every second of every day. Now, back then, well, where the route is that in the meantime, in 1000s, and 1000s year, there's no more sci fi. Throughout all of all of the Vedic texts, there's no more sci fi.

Paul Wallis 47:19
Of course, we're waiting for a couple of 100,000 cuneiform tablets to be translated. There may be a few more stories buried there, should be watching with interest in investing in our Siri ologists, who will be making the discoveries?

Alex Ferrari 47:36
Let's hope let's hope and pray. The one thing I also found fascinating about myth, because I again, being a storyteller, I love myth and folklore, is that a lot of the stories that they wrote off as myth is now starting, they're starting to find archaeological proof of those stories. So perfectly example. Troy, they discovered Troy, they always thought Troy was part of a story. And it was like it was a great story. And it was, if not mistaken, it was in the Odyssey. If Ms is in the Odyssey, or the Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Homer's Odyssey Odyssey. So it all Homer was fantastic. It was just a great story. When they found Troy, then they just find a city on the coast of India, as well, that is underwater. And that's another, another city. That was complete myth. So these things are starting to pop up at a time now where human consciousness seems to be rising, and there's much more curiosity about this stuff. There's a new generation being born, coming from the factory, as I like to say, programmed from the factory, thinking very differently than our generation did. Or even definitely our parents generation, our grandparents generation, did. They just look at things happening today? And it's just like, what? It just doesn't make any sense to them. And they're the ones these younger archaeologists, these younger biologists, younger physicists, that are coming up and going, What do you mean, you're not going to look at that? This mountains of evidence over there that you've been piling up in the back corner? What's wrong with you? And as the older guard starts to die out, these institutions start to lose their power. This younger new generation is starting to open up doors that you and I as curious souls have been waiting for.

Paul Wallis 49:28
Yes, it is. And it's, it's even more interesting that because I think the old guard are changing as well. Because when archaeologists get old enough, and they're not having to defend tenure, yes, they're a little bit free to say, Actually, I have always questioned that I have always wondered about that. And we were saying before we came on here about receiving correspondence from people in their 80s and 90s, who were telling you and me I don't believe what I believe five years ago, I'm questioning everything. I've got a real appetite to find out, find out what's really going on. And appetite that I've not had in all my life. It's a very interesting period. And I find this from the world of ministry as well. Retired, elderly ministers are suddenly free to say, I'd always wondered if these texts were really about et encounters or other civilizations. And so our elders do have a role to play in this. And I hope our elder elders will give coverage to the younger generation. So we're looking at the data that's already there, and connecting the dots and saying, wait a minute, doesn't this indicate that timeline? Doesn't this indicate that this was not myth? I mean, it's a great story, though. What about Heinrich Schliemann? Discovering Troy because everybody laughed at him. Because they say you're going to a work of fiction to find a real historic place. I mean, that's just crazy as that's like thinking you're descended from a fictitious character. But he found it. And that discovery has given courage to others to go in search of other mythical places. And the discovery of that city under the Gulf of Cambay. The Indian coast was extraordinary, because that didn't come about because there was a Heinrich Schliemann, saying, I think this is true. They found it and then said, oh, so that wasn't a myth. And we have the technology to discover more and more places like that. I mean, I think it's tremendously exciting. What LIDAR saw magnetization technology is revealing. And it's interesting. That was the technology that revealed the probable side of the Gilgamesh tomb, which is again, a fine that could tell us Oh, so Gilgamesh wasn't just a story. So Gilgamesh was historic. And of course, the $64,000 question there is, was he really a hybrid of human and sky people. So there's so much story to emerge, so much possibility to discover that our ancient storytellers were doing more than weaving stories for entertainment.

Alex Ferrari 52:17
Yeah, there wasn't a lot of Netflix back in the day. So I imagine that to do something for story, but I do agree that it's probably a stretching it that they were just doing it for entertainment only. I was talking to somebody the other day, and another researcher, and he brought up such a great, great point, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, about the Anunnaki, and the genetic modification. And this all this stuff in the ancient texts, is that as, as animals on this planet, as humans, as a species, we get sick a lot. We also are not really built for the sun, we have no hair on our bodies. You know, if we stay out in the sun too long we burn, there's a lot of things about us. That doesn't make sense in the natural world. Whereas in animals generally don't generally don't get sick. I mean, I've had a cat and I've had animals, I never had my dog never had 14 years never had a cold. Like that wasn't a thing they have for they can adapt to, they adapt to the environment much much easier. All animals really do and insects and birds and everything than we do. So there seems to be like this weirdness about humans. And of course, our big brains and our big brains, obviously. And there was other species of humans, like, like the Neanderthals, who are much stronger than us, bigger and strongest. And there were other Homo erectus and a couple other homosapiens that are, you know, cousins of ours, that had the same size brain as us. And also had we found that they do tools, and they understood fire and the so there, so what made us like that? So quickly overtake everything, because it wasn't a slow progression as evolution is supposedly, is it a slow process. All of a sudden, this one species just took over, and basically took everyone out. So I'd love to hear on both those things, the speed of our of our rise, and also just how we kind of don't seem to fit in the grand scheme of the ecosystem. I'm not saying we're aliens, I think we're here. But as we've evolved over time, we're not ready. I mean, you and I get thrown out into the Sahara. We're not gonna make it man, you and I get thrown onto the Amazon. It's gonna be a tough go unless you have this gear and stuff that our brains have developed for us to adapt to the environment. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Paul Wallis 54:57
You're exactly right. And that really caught my attention when I was 11 years old. And I realized we couldn't quite explain our presence on planet Earth, you're quite right. If you're I will put out into the wilderness on our own. After three days, three nights would either be in need of a hospital, sick, or dead. And that's because we are somewhat ill adapted to our environment. I mean, even something very basic like eating, are we carnivores? You eat raw meat, you're gonna get yourself sick, we're gonna have to cook it first. Even certain vegetables, we have to boil them for 12 minutes before they're not toxic. If we're going to start eating certain beans, how did we learn how to do that? How come we're ill adapted to the physical environment to the weather, to what we're in drink? Why did we get ill? And it didn't seem to fit with the explanations is being taught as young boy, that was for sure. Because on the one hand, you had the religious explanation of why we're the Alpha species? Well, that's because we're God's special creation. Well, if that's the case, why is it so obvious that we're some kind of a primate? And why are we so vulnerable on the planet? And the scientific explanation says, Well, what makes us the Alpha species? Is our high intelligence we can survive in the wilderness, if we can build a fire, build a structure, build a weapon. Oh, great. So how did we get that? Well, we don't know. So there's this gap in our ability to explain ourselves. And so when decades later, I started reading stories of intervention in human development, where rapid technological progress is made, because we receive a visitation, and we receive tuition. This made some kind of sense to me back in the day, in the 60s, it was Erich Von Daniken, saying, our story makes better sense if we allow for the possibility of external interventions. He wasn't the first person to suggested Plato said, that's what happened, that we are part of the natural foreigner of this planet in our roots, but that we have had help to upgrade us to become more conscious, more intelligent, but that some of these alterations actually made us more vulnerable, because now all of a sudden, we're less robust physically, we don't have hair protecting us from the climate from the sun from the cold weather, we can do more fine motor stuff. But there's a lot of vulnerability built in that relates to what we were saying before the vulnerability of our civilization. And so many stories around the world. Tell us this is what happened. That not that we were created by visitors, but that we were tweaked. The Mayan story fascinates me. Because if we listen to the story of the genetic engineering done by cuckoo, Khan, cocomat, squid, Sal Cottle, they're really all the same figure. What that story tells us is that was a very long, slow process of finessing natural processes of evolution to create us. And then what the feathered serpents wanted was a species intelligent enough to work for them, but not so intelligent that we couldn't be managed. And that the result of this experimentation was us, plus the eight blight creatures that live in the forest. Now that caught my attention, because this is a story that is ages old. And yet, it's just stated something that DNA research would have confirmed today. And that is, we didn't come from apes. We and apes came from something else. We share a common ancestor. And then the difference between our branch and the ape branch is very, very subtle. A fusing of two chromosomes is very odd thing to find. So we've got data in the present, that confirms the story told by the ancient Mayans, which in the West, we hadn't heard that story because we'd burned all their books. Until Charles Darwin said, I think we are apes have a common ancestor. So I find all that fascinating as well. I find it fascinating the evidence that's emerging in DNA research. And if you want to find serious credential scientists around the world, open to the idea that we have either off planet origins or that we've been altered artificially. It's DNA researchers. You want to talk to you and you'll find some Rising body of people open to these stories.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:03
And it is from the difference between us and the primates is so minuscule. It is, it's a chromosome or two, in the DNA strand, there also seems to be because there's I've had a lot of guests on who have spoken to a lot of people who are into the body hacking movement, of being able to hack their body and longevity and live for 1000 years and that kind of stuff. You know, all the rest of obviously, all the billionaires want to live forever, because why wouldn't you, you have billions of dollars, life is good. So they're all fascinated with freezing themselves, and all that kind of stuff. But when you dig deep, deep, deep into the DNA, of of yourself, there is a chromosome or a part of the DNA that's kept, that literally puts an expiration date on your body. Because arguably, you shouldn't age, arguably, you regenerate your skin, you regenerate your, your your, like, I don't know what the time is. But like, within a year, you have a new skeleton, you have new, a new heart and because you're constantly regenerating your body, but yet, there is a time limit on that. on a genetic level, I find that tremendously fascinating. And then when you start going down the road of the yogi's and the Ascended Masters and the avatars, with stories like Baba Ji, who, you know, has been around for 2,3,4000 years, and hangs out in in the Himalayas and still alive today doing good work behind the scenes. And you hear these yogic stories from the Vedic traditions of people living hundreds of years, no apparently was supposed to live 900 years, if I'm not mistaken. In the Bible. It was a Noah Abraham and there was no Yeah, no, it was opposed to or Moses, excuse me, Moses to I'm not sure if it's Moses and Noah, but I know one of them. No, I lived for No, there was no right. Yeah, lived for 800, enter. So this idea of long term life is interesting at for certain people who understand or can manipulate their DNA at a molecule, a atomic level, if you will.

Paul Wallis 1:02:15
Yes, yes, that's right. So it's it's the telomeres that define how long we live. And so it's intriguing to me that in this Sumerian and the biblical narratives, there's a moment in which our advanced visitors decide how long human beings should live. And they say, we're going to cap this at 120 years, which is pretty much our, our top point to this day, I mean, more of us are able to live longer lives, but there really does seem to be an upper limit around 120 years. So that caught my attention. There was a really interesting experiment done with a fellow who lived underwater for 90 days. And when they brought him up, he was healthier than it had been before. And his telomeres had lengthened. And they were trying to work out what what had caused this. And there's a theory that it was a higher oxygen content that had caused this to happen. And I only read this story recently, but I realized there's ancient story that relates to that. You can go to Hawaii, listen to ancestral stories on the land of Molokai, they'll talk about an ancient invasion when the model came. And these were sort of draconic entities who arrived from somewhere and governed over our ancestors in the deep past. And when they wanted to make humans more manageable, have them not live as long have them not be as smart. They reduced the oxygen content in the atmosphere. That's part of that story. And I thought, oh, gosh, that rings bells. Because there's something like that in the mind story, where the feathered serpents have an emergency meeting because they can't manage the human beings. We're too clever. We're too smart. We've got too much for sight, future sight, empathy, telepathic connection? And how can you manipulate people who know what you're thinking? And how can you ambush people who know when you're coming? We've got to dumb them down. And so quit so caught allow us to go back into the genetic engineering lab. And he says, Oh, we don't need to change them. We just need to spray this vapor over human populations, and that'll dumb them down. So that's a really interesting overlap of a change in the atmosphere to reduce our health, lifespan intelligence. For a real world example of that, I'm old enough to remember the 1970s when journalists were telling the world that leaded fuel will was brain damaging our children that our whole atmosphere was becoming polluted because of leaded fuel, and that children who lived in urban environments surrounded by idling traffic, were less intelligent and more aggressive because of the fumes from leaded fuel. Now, of course, there was a huge pushback from the oil industry against this story. Oh, this is this is just paranoia. There's no evidence for this, except there was evidence, and the journalists pursued this around the world. More and more evidence came is why today, we now drive vehicles with unleaded fuel. Because we worked out this was happening, our atmosphere was damaging us, our children, our future, and we didn't want to brain damage our children. And so we cleaned up our airspace. And I look at that moment in history. And I think, wow, if we had known the story of the model, and taken it seriously, if we'd known the story of the feathered serpents, and taken it seriously, we would have known that the cleanliness of our atmosphere is absolutely vital to our health and longevity. And we would have listened to those journalists a lot more quickly,

Alex Ferrari 1:06:15
You would think, right? I mean, it's, it seems like common sense. But I mean, I remember in the, in the 80s, they were talking about the ozone layer, the ozone layer, and the hairspray was killing the ozone layer. And they finally I can think it's been repaired or got close to being repaired because of a lot of the things we did you know, you're talking about dumbing down their creation, so it doesn't get out of hand. Man, that does seem really loudly to what's happening today. With AI. We are creating an intelligence. Now it's a basic intelligence and it's a it's a verb, it's a virtual intelligence doesn't, you know, at this point, at least as we're talking here, they're not, you know, embedding that into humans yet, or hybrid humans. But that is coming. That's what Elon Musk wants to do. We all want to kind of be able to plug into the, to the matrix and learn Kung Fu and five minute and five seconds. So that is something that is happening. But our, the way we're looking at AI is very similar to the stories of the Anunnaki. How they looked at their creation, their hybrid creation of humans, like, Oh, we don't, can't we got to put some guardrails up, because we don't want them to get out of hand. And we're looking at AI the exact same way I just kind of came to me while you were talking about like, well, that's basically the argument we're having about AI right now.

Paul Wallis 1:07:40
Yes. And I mean, there are so many versions of that story of we create something and then what we've created threatens us, it's a very resonant story, whether we're thinking about Frankenstein's monster, or how in 2001. And I think it's resonant because we can feel there's a danger coming. And it's, AI can be a really powerful tool, as long as we're the masters. And as long as we don't seek to create a new conscious intelligence. I think that I think we need to be creative in how we use it, it could be a phenomenal tool. But my concern is partly how, how conscious does the AI become? But then how unconscious do we become, because you've only got to travel through an international airport to begin to experience what it is when decisions are made by machines instead of by human beings. And how vulnerable you feel in that situation, if it's an algorithm that's going to decide whether you're going to be allowed through or allowed home or carted off to some holding room somewhere. And humans are not habituated to using the human intelligence. Well, there's a terrible vulnerability built into that. I think we need to be cleverer in our use of AI and not allow our instincts, our higher intelligence to play the role that should be playing chips in the brain has a potentially very positive application, there would be people suffering from paralysis all around the world, wishing Elon Musk every success in what he's doing in creating human to machine interface. Wouldn't that be awesome? If people suffering from paralysis could operate their bodies through that kind of tech or could communicate through computers using that kind of tech? That's great. So I don't want to jump up and down on Elon and stop him doing that. But we need to be very intelligent about What else we might do with that technology. And I'm very happy that the Oppenheimer movie was so successful and so resonant, because it really raises that question of technology can be used in very many ways, and we can't just be dispassionate. And saying, I'm very happy because I've made this technological leap. We have to become politically morally more intelligent, as our technological abilities lift.

Alex Ferrari 1:10:32
Now, I wanted to go back to the Anunnaki, in the Book of Enoch, is there in these older stories, a spiritual component, because it sounds at least from my understanding of the Anunnaki story with the Sumerians, that they're just gods, and they're just beings that come in and they do all the stuff they're doing. But talking to gurus, and Yogi's and swamis. Over the years, I've come to understand him quantum physicist, I've come to understand that you need a certain level of frequency, to even to be able to travel, to get to the level of technology to be able to travel from star to star, you have to be at such a high level of frequency, that you're basically so close to God, so close to source, you have a open understanding of things that you and I think is science fiction. But they would think of it like oh five frequency is obviously fundamental, I don't understand why you guys don't understand that, that you can create your own world with your own thoughts, because it's based on frequency, and so on and so forth. That things that the yogi's and the avatars have been trying to teach us for 1000s of years. But is there any aspect of spirituality within those stories? Are these gods ever talk or the Anunnaki ever talk about a spiritual aspect to where they come from? Or their belief system?

Paul Wallis 1:11:58
Well, the short answer to that question is no. But there's a very interesting way in which consciousness comes into the picture. When we look at ancient stories of contact. It also relates to contemporary, you follow EEG, but I can go there for a moment, because when we listen to Department of Defense personnel who have had to engage with UAPs, or UFOs, in the modern era, they were talking about the way our visitors are able to zip through space, and through our air space. And through the water. That's all domain anomaly in the language of the Department of Defense. And these craft move, as if they were animals, rather than craft being piloted, as if you couldn't get a piece of paper between the thought and intention of the pilot and the movement of the craft. Now, that's what's been observed. We go back to script writers, and what they're doing with the data that's leaking out of real world engagement. And if you go to the Star Trek universe, to Star Trek Discovery, there's something there called the spore drive, which enables the pilot to interface directly at an organic level with the craft, so that through the mind of the pilot, the craft is instructed to ping into this air space in this other part of the cosmos. If you listen to the physicists who are working on the metamaterials obtained from UFO retrievals we've got a microbiologist working on those. That's Nobel Prize nominee. Gary Nolan, why is a microbiologist working on these materials? Why in the hearing of July the 26th 2023, were the witnesses talking about non human biologics? And it wasn't quite clear if they were talking about the pilots or the craft. So I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that there is something organic about the materials from which these crafts are made. That involves the ability to interface between the mind and consciousness of the pilot, and the behavior of the craft. So this comes to what you're talking about. Where does our mind need to be? What does our frequency needs to be before we can flip through the cosmos? So that's not just a spirituality question. It's a technology question as well. And then back to where I started in the indigenous narratives of the world. They speak about our visitors coming because they are very interested in our capacity for consciousness, that there's something unique about the way a human body can do HOST consciousness and express an experience, experience consciousness that is different to our visitors. And that many of our visitors have a far flatter experience of life, because they don't have the emotionality of human beings. And it's not hard to imagine that even if all life in the cosmos is related, there's something unique about Homo sapiens, we have an animal strengths, a certain robustness. We have mammal emotion, and we have high intelligence. And the abduction narratives of the world suggests that this is a very interesting cocktail to our visitors, and that they want some of what we have, because it gives them a richer experience of life. And because their experience of higher frequency is so much more powerful and more rewarding. So I think that's why a lot of our company is here today. Because the potential of us becoming space spheres and citizens of the cosmos really is something phenomenal

Alex Ferrari 1:16:08
So everything we've been talking about Paul, in regards to the Book of Enoch, and the Anunnaki and Sumerians and Babylonians, all these stories of the sky guys, the light, God's light beings, whatever they're called. What does that mean for us spiritually? And our evolution as a soul? What does all of this mean for humanity? Understanding, let's say, everything we discuss, is fact. Let's just Let's just put that out there for fun. And everything we could prove all of it. And all of it there's that we found the video. We found the video someone was filming back then we got the video, we got it all taken care of. What does that mean for the evolution of humanity's consciousness and our individual soul understanding where we're coming from? What's the plan? What was the point of all of that, as opposed to the narrative that we've been told?

Paul Wallis 1:17:02
Hmm, all right. I think what has gripped me is that these different stories of origins that exist in these indigenous narratives, implies a different level of human potential. So when I talked about that dumbing down story that we find in the mind story, it's there in African story as well told by the epic people, it indicates that our ancestors were smarter than we are, there was a point at which we were better. At fast site remote viewing, we were better at future site. We were had better pre cognition, we were better self healers that we had some kind of an x ray vision that enabled us to self heal, that we were more empathic, more telepathic. And that that made for a far more harmonious society. That's part of the wind story of the model, that when you know what the other person's thinking and can feel what the other person is feeling, it forces you to live in a win win kind of mentality rather than win lose mentality, that high intelligence is not just about having superpowers. It's about creating a more harmonious society. And in my books, I talk about real world phenomena like acquired Savant syndrome, that indicate those high abilities are still there in our brains, that can be knocked on by accident. If we have a central nervous system event or a brain injury. This is the syndrome that studied by peer reviewed neuroscientists around the world, it's a real thing. And they asked the question, is it possible to activate our higher cognitive abilities without an accident without a brain injury, without a central nervous system event? Because if that's possible, then that's the holy grail for human progress. And so I'm interested I mean, I am interested in superpowers, if I'm really honest, I'd love the idea of X ray vision. Sure, if higher cognitive ability leads to a better human experience, a more harmonious experience of human life, then let's go for it. And it brings me back to Plato, you talk about the great purpose of everything. Plato had a really cosmic vision of origins. And he, he would have fascinating conversations with quantum scientists in the present day. He believed that consciousness was not only a vital principle in understanding why the material universe behaves in the way it does. He believed that the material universe is actually the emanation of a unified field of consciousness. That consciousness came first. Right at the Big Bang, prior to time, space, energy matter. was consciousness and that that is why consciousness is something we find in the cosmos, Plato argues it's a property of the cosmos, that the cosmos as consciousness. And if I can use an analogy, if you watch a little bird wake up in the morning, you will sit, stretch your wing, it'll stretch another wing, stretch one leg, stretch the other leg, and it'll start singing. And Plato's analogy is that when the unified field of consciousness did that, it created the material cosmos. Now he starts to unpack that idea. And what that leads to is a kind of a moral vision and an idea of what's good and bad, and what's progress and what isn't. And it is as if the whole material Cosmos exists to answer a cosmic question. A unified field of consciousness is a harmonious thing. But can that harmony exist? In a material cosmos of free moving agents, including conscious entities exercising free choice? Can we do consciousness? Can we do intelligence? Can we do harmony in this world? And that's the question that the universe is here to address. And I think we're here to address it at an individual level, we could really boil that down to saying, Alex have Have you learned harmony? Have you learned love? And what's your contribution to allowing that to happen at a social level at a global level? And if we're asking the question, can we do harmony as the material cosmos? We could say everything that answers yes to that question, we would call good. And everything that answer's no. Well, we might call that bad. And I find that a really interesting framework with which to understand the cosmos, and with which to understand my purpose. Here, have I learned harmony? Have I learned how to deal with random situations or random people who I learned love? Is my intelligence at that level? Am I vibrating at the level? And this again, is all Plato, where I'm not bogged down by what he called heavier emotion like fear, insecurity, resentment, anger, fury, unfulfilled ambition and forgiveness. Am I vibrating at a level where I'm enjoying a human experience, and these things are like water off a duck's back. I think this is all stuff we, we instinctively feel we're trying to learn. We want to be happy, we want to be healthy. We want to be intelligent, we want to be conscious. And I think that drive within us is something very, very profound.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:54
Beautifully said, my friend beautifully said, you mentioned Plato, I have to I would be I would have to be remiss if not asking this question. Atlantis, we could talk for hours and hours about Atlantis. I love that. I love Atlantis. I was probably there and former life. But is there any other reference to Atlantis other than Plato's reference in any of these ancient texts that you've come across any glimmer of that story?

Paul Wallis 1:23:28
Well, not by the name of Atlantis, but the idea of a prior civilization that was more advanced, and that was obliterated. That's a global story. So when we hear Plato say we shouldn't be surprised to hear it. And he says that he got information about that prior civilization from a descendant of Solon who was a real world Greek legislator. And he got that information from the ancient priesthood of Egypt. And they said they got that story from the survivors of Atlantis. So it is a story with some pedigree when you look at the detail of it in Plato. And as soon as you allow for that story to be told without the specific name. Yes, it is a recurrent story told around the world, and one we should take seriously. And people have found many submerged, megalithic cities that would have been above sea level no more recently than 10,000 years ago. And often they said, oh, have we found Atlantis? Well, they might not have found Atlantis but they certainly have found a civilization that was obliterated in the deep past. So I would not be surprised if we did find Atlantis that fits with the very precise geographic and geological descriptions that Plato gives. It's not a very Edgar ethereal kind of story. He talks about the geology of the area, he talks about the technology they use, he talks about the shape of the city, the construction of it. So I do think we'll know it when we find it. And I won't be surprised because I think it was part of a global civilization that predates the most recent Ice Age. And that was very, very advanced.

Alex Ferrari 1:25:25
Would it make sense that Plato's account is a Atlantis but the ancient texts that are similar stories are of other civilizations in other times, maybe 20,000 or 30,000 years ago, as opposed to just play those is very strictly Atlantis, and took place around the time of the younger with a date around the time of younger to other Younger Dryas which makes sense. But some of the other ones might be distorted recycles itself, just like story. We in just like the cycles of enlightenment, in Dark Ages, enlightenment Dark Ages that humanity has gone through, according to the Vedic texts, and up to schwa, from reading his book, The Holy science, it seems like there's cycles of everything. And if you look at Earth, as jarred, through cycles everywhere, cycles in the seasons, cycles of life, cycles of water cycles of land, it just, it's a constant dying and rebirth, buying rebirth. It is such a common theme in our existence, in this quote, unquote, simulation that we're in this game that we're all in it is a constant thing. So why wouldn't it make sense that there was an Atlantis style, civilization, then we lost it, then we had to build the backup, and there was another version of it, and we lost it, and we think it makes a lot of sense. Would you agree?

Paul Wallis 1:26:48
I do agree. And I think it's it's almost comical how people read Plato talking about that, because he talks about the cycles, he talks about Atlantis. He talks about Paleo contact, he talks about altered states of consciousness and contact in the present. Era amazes me how people can move all that to one side and say, well, we don't take that seriously. But he was one of the greatest human minds in history, and he is at the foundation of Western thought. And how you can separate those things off? I'm not quite sure.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:25
Exactly. Now, Paul, I'm going to ask you a few questions. I ask all of my guests, my friend. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Paul Wallis 1:27:33
Oh, what a great question. I, as I was just saying, I think we are here as learners. And I think any curious person who really follows their curiosity is going to enjoy this life, more than if they didn't have that. I think it's one of the most important things that makes us homosapiens. So I think having a fulfilled life is not just about, you know, having what you want, and not having what you don't want. There's always this, this drive, to go beyond to to become more to learn more. So I think fulfilled, it's a funny word. But I think we feel happiest and most energized, and perhaps do the greatest things when we allow that, that discontent and that curiosity to really drive us at the same time, it is nice to have the things we want and not have the things you don't want. I think the only way we can achieve that most of us is by helping each other. And I think if we're too focused on ourselves as individuals, and getting ourselves right, and our and our own individual life happy, we're actually going to miss a great deal of enjoyment and enrichment that comes from giving and receiving and being part of human society. We are social animals. And so I think our way forward into fulfillment has to be something we discover, as families, as friends, as neighborhoods. And I do think in this period, this is the vision we need to recover a bit. I think we've lost our sense of society somewhat. I think when we recover, it will realize we're enjoying life a whole lot better.

Alex Ferrari 1:29:27
Now, if you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Paul, what advice would you give him?

Paul Wallis 1:29:33
I am by nature, worrier. And I think as I've got older, I've learned to worry less because I've worked out that worrying, doesn't change anything. It just stops you enjoying the meantime of everything. And so I would say all take it easy, don't fret, don't stress. Almost everything you're experiencing matters less than you think it does. us. And I think if I could have taught myself that then I would have saved myself a lot of fretting. And I could have enjoyed myself a bit more freely. So I think that's probably my best advice.

Alex Ferrari 1:30:12
What is your definition of God or Source?

Paul Wallis 1:30:14
Oh, I love this question because my definition of God has he changed through my research into paleo contact and finding paleo contact in the Bible and ancient narratives. There's a definition of God, the apostle Paul gives that I really like. It gives it to a non religious audience in Athens. And he uses the Greek word Samos. And he says, By theists, I mean, the source of the cosmos, and everything in it, that in which we all live and move and have our being, of which we are all offspring. And what I love about that definition is there's no separation in it, it means I couldn't be closer to source than I am, it means that my intelligence is a participation in Source Intelligence. My consciousness is a participation in the consciousness of the cosmos. And without separation, there's no separation anxiety. And I think, unhealthy religion has always traded in separation anxiety, you know, a message that says, You're separated from God. In this life, it's going to be even worse in the life to come. And we're going to tell you how to claw your way back into God's good books. That is the bedrock of all manipulative religion. But this definition of God that Paul gives, there's no space for that. Because we're all emanations of source. We're all deeply connected, we should all be expecting to think divine thoughts and have divine experiences. And I find that a very abrasive way of thinking about God, even if I don't use the word God, because I know it's very off putting to a lot of people. But that's how I think of God.

Alex Ferrari 1:31:53
Beautiful. What is love?

Paul Wallis 1:31:55
I, as I was saying before, I think love is something that expresses itself, in community in plural. And I think it has to do with living not just for oneself, but but for others. And it's a desire for the good of the it's a desire for harmony.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:16
What is the ultimate purpose of life?

Paul Wallis 1:32:19
To learn love.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:20
And what does World Peace look like to you?

Paul Wallis 1:32:23
I think world peace is what happens when love gets expressed in foreign policy. When when countries can learn love, instead of fear, and paranoia when we want the good of another country as well as the good of our own. I think I mean, we cannot have world peace, unless we think in those terms, loving the other enough to want a good that they will feel is good for them.

Alex Ferrari 1:32:50
Beautifully said my friend. And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Paul Wallis 1:32:55
Well, first off, go to Amazon, and you'll find my books, The Invasion of Eden is the one being launched this very week, so you can find what I'm thinking what I'm into in that book. If you want to get in conversation with me, then you can come to my YouTube channel that Paul Wallis channel, or to The 5th kind on YouTube. I have two websites, And Anthony with an H. Wallis with an IS. And if you come to, we can get into a longer conversation and you can keep up to date with everything I'm doing.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:28
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Paul Wallis 1:33:30
Oh, I think I think we really touched on it just what we were saying. But I think if we could do love and curiosity, then we can chart a better way forward, live healthier and happier lives, and ultimately be more fulfilled as a species.

Alex Ferrari 1:33:47
Paul, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been such a pleasure and honor speaking to you and I appreciate the work that you're doing to help awaken the planet my friend. So thank you.

Paul Wallis 1:33:55
Thanks, Alex. It's been a pleasure.

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