Theosophy: The Secret of Who You Really Are with Pablo Sender

Pablo Sender, PhD, has a degree in Microbiology and a doctorate in Biological Sciences. He joined the Theosophical Society (TS) in his native Argentina in 1996. He has lived and worked for this organization in its International Headquarters in India and in the National Headquarters of the American Section. He is currently living on the grounds of the Krotona Institute of Theosophy in Ojai, CA. Dr.

Sender is one of the world’s leading Theosophical scholars. He has been a student of the Theosophical teachings and comparative religions and philosophies for over twenty years. As an international speaker, he has presented programs and retreats in India, Europe, Oceania, and the three Americas. His articles are published in Theosophical journals worldwide, and he is the author of books in English and Spanish. His latest book is “The Evolution of the Higher Consciousness.”

Please enjoy my conversation with Pablo Sender.

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What is Theosophy?

Theosophy is a philosophical belief system that originated in the 19th century. It is based on the idea that there is a universal wisdom that can be discovered through spiritual practices and that this wisdom is not tied to any particular religion. Theosophy teaches that all religions are ultimately based on the same underlying truths and that connecting with this universal wisdom through direct experience is possible. Theosophy also emphasizes the idea of personal spiritual evolution and the potential for individuals to reach a state of enlightenment or self-realization. Theosophy has significantly influenced the development of various spiritual and metaphysical movements and has been a source of inspiration for many people around the world.

Theosophy is a complex and multifaceted belief system that encompasses a wide range of ideas and practices. Some of the key teachings of theosophy include:

  • The idea is that the ultimate, unknowable reality lies beyond the physical world and can be accessed through spiritual practices and experiences.
  • The belief is that all living beings are interconnected and that everything in the universe is interconnected and interdependent.
  • The concept of reincarnation holds that the soul is eternal and that individuals have multiple lifetimes in which they can learn and grow.
  • The idea is that there are spiritual masters or “adepts” who have attained a high level of spiritual enlightenment and are able to help guide others on the path to enlightenment.
  • The belief is that it is possible to develop psychic abilities and tap into hidden knowledge through spiritual practices and meditation.
  • Theosophy also emphasizes the importance of compassion and service to others and encourages individuals to work towards the betterment of humanity and the world.

Here are a few more points about theosophy:

  • Theosophy was founded in the 19th century by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, who is considered one of the primary founders of the modern theosophical movement. Blavatsky’s writings, including her book “The Secret Doctrine,” have significantly influenced the development of theosophy and continue to be widely read and studied by followers of the tradition.
  • Theosophy has often been associated with the occult and paranormal phenomena, and its teachings have influenced the development of various metaphysical and New Age movements.
  • Theosophy is not affiliated with any particular religion and is open to individuals of all faiths. Its teachings are based on the idea that all religions are ultimately based on the same underlying truths and that connecting with this universal wisdom through spiritual practices and personal experience is possible.
  • Theosophy strongly emphasizes personal spiritual growth and self-improvement, and it encourages individuals to develop their own inner wisdom and understanding of the world.
  • Theosophy is not a dogmatic belief system, and followers are encouraged to approach its teachings with an open mind and to draw their own conclusions based on their own experiences and understanding.
  • Theosophy has a global following and has inspired the formation of various theosophical societies and organizations around the world. These groups often host lectures, workshops, and other events to explore and discuss theosophical ideas and practices.

Overall, theosophy is a spiritual belief system that encourages individuals to seek knowledge, wisdom, and personal growth through spiritual practices and experiences.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 173

Pablo Sender 0:00
We do create the reality in the sense of how we perceive reality

Alex Ferrari 0:16
I've been able to partner with Mindvalley to present you guys FREE Masterclass is between 60 and 90 minutes, covering Mind Body Soul Relationships and Conscious Entrepreneurship, taught by spiritual masters, yogi's spiritual thought leaders and best selling authors. Just head over to nextlevelsoul.com/free

I'd like to welcome to the show, Pablo Sender. How you doing Pablo?

Pablo Sender 0:52
I'm doing well. How are you doing?

Alex Ferrari 0:55
I'm doing very good, my friend. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm really excited to talk to you. Anytime I hear of a new spiritual practice or teachings that I haven't heard before. I love doing deep dive to see the nuggets of gold that I can mine from those teachings and we're definitely going to be talking about a new, a new kind of new it's been around forever but new to me feel the theological I could feel philosophical, the the esophageal society or theists, are they awesome. I can't say please forgive me. But I'm not the first.

Pablo Sender 1:32
Even our members have difficulty sometimes.

Alex Ferrari 1:37
But before we get started, my first question to you is, how did you begin your spiritual journey?

Pablo Sender 1:43
Um, I guess i It began when I was a child, really, because I would wake up and feel that life was empty. I couldn't understand why I wake up in that way. So I was about a turn nine. So I started reading some books that my dad had in his library on Atlantis and Egypt and UFOs. And I guess that began to show me that there were other things in life that you don't normally hear about. And then as I grew up, I was always interested in philosophy. I read some Western philosophers, and I read some of New Age literature, but never found something completely satisfying. So when I was about 20, I thought that I wanted to learn how to meditate. And I tried reading some books, and I needed more guidance. So talking to my mom, who was going to yoga. Her teacher was a tes member. So she knew about TS stands for Theosophical Society. So she knew about this organization, but she had never been there. So talking to her, she said, Well, I know about this organization, let's go and maybe they are teaching how to meditate. So she told me they are and they were giving a class on meditation at the time. And that's how I came across the Theosophical Society. I was at that time in college doing my, my grad, I'm a microbiologist. And I was really attracted to the idea that theosophy proposes of combining religion, philosophy and science. So that's how I found the path that I feel, you know, it has been great in my life.

Alex Ferrari 3:52
So can you talk a little bit about what the fee a lot a lot of damage? The TS society?

Pablo Sender 4:01
Yes, the TS has three objects or three goals. The first one is to try to form in in the organization, a nucleus of what they call the in the 19th century universal brotherhood, without any distinction of race, sex, caste, creed, or color. The idea was that for humanity to be able to live in a in a healthy way, we need to generate a sense of kinship, brotherhood and sisterhood, tolerance, and really encourage loving relationship with respect to all differences. So that's the first aim and the society has been it's been Usually at the beginning, it was attacked, often because it normally would break some barriers that were part of the culture of the place like in India, people from different castes would come together and eat together. And that was not accepted. In other places, similar, similar situations. But I think eventually, many people today recognize that that's the way to go. Then there is a second object that encourages the comparative study of religion, philosophy and science. The idea is that in order to understand life in a deeper way, we need to look at it from all the different avenues of knowledge that humanity has developed. Because each Avenue has its strengths and its weaknesses. So there is room for a scientific point of view. But we don't need to be limited to the material realm that science researches, there is room for a philosophical approach to humanity and to life unto ourselves. But without being limited to this being just an intellectual speculation. So there is room also for a spiritual or religious approach, in which we have these spiritual aspirations, but without being limited by a particular dogma or theology. So that's the idea of the second aim. And the third one is about promoting or encouraging the study of the the hidden laws in life that are unexplained by science, like the Theosophical Society was the first one in in the West, in bringing up the idea of karma. And, you know, talking about what in the East they know, as chakras, et cetera, because part of the idea of the Theosophical Society was to bring up this hidden aspect of life and of human beings, which are important to understand our place in life and how we can search for for, you know, however you you visualize it enlightenment, or fulfillment or happiness, but from a deeper point of view. So those are the three objects or aims of the Theosophical Society, which are framed in what we call freedom of thought, which is an official declaration, let's say, by the General Counsel of the society that says that all members have to respect the freedom of thought of other people, and there is no discrimination, you know, or no, no personal has to hold any particular idea, whether philosophical or otherwise, to be a member of the society. So that's more or less the general structure of the organization.

Alex Ferrari 8:11
So I'd love to hear your thoughts about how science is seems to be, in recent years specifically, is starting to meet spiritual spirituality in a very profound way with quantum physics and quantum mechanics. And it's starting to catch up to ideas that have been around for 1000s of years in spiritual texts. How does How do you? How do you like view that and? And where do you think this is all going as far as science and spirituality meeting?

Pablo Sender 8:42
Yeah, I think it's very important that, that this happens. As I said, the, actually the Theosophical Society was the the first organization at least in the West, in modern times, to actually research the interface between science and spirituality. And actually one of the foundational books that one of the founders of the Theosophical Society wrote, The subtitle is a science, a synthesis of science and religion and philosophy. And she contrasts quite a bit, science and spirituality there. And I think it took quite a while But gradually, some scientists are beginning to try to look at life in this more, let's say holistic way. And I, I make emphasis on some scientists because I think the science as a discipline is still quite far from embracing something more spiritual. Normally, we see attempts in individual scientists, many of them are ostracized because of their attempts like Rupert Sheldrake, for example, who was one of the first ones I guess, in, in doing this very explicitly. But more and more individual scientists begin to, to see that this is a an interesting field of, of research. And since science cannot define consciousness, I mean, there is a definition, but not the explanation of how consciousness comes about. beyond what we can see in the brain. There are some scientists that are turning to more philosophical or spiritual ways of explaining what consciousness is. And as you mentioned, the field of quantum physics provides some avenues to try and to try to explain consciousness in ways that are not so much material. So I think it's hopeful what is happening. But the problem with science and I have a PhD in molecular biology, I, I spent half of my life in a lab because I started with science in high school. And the problem with science is that for something to be accepted as scientific, you need to devise an experiment that can measure that principle that you want to propose. So it's, it's quite difficult to measure to devise means to capture that which is not physical, because we are using physical means. So quantum physics may be a way of entering into that realm. But even quantum physics, in many aspects is regarded as a philosophy or not as a science. Scientists know because you can do certain experiments to see if if what these theories say are true.

Alex Ferrari 12:01
It's very just fascinating what's what's happening and where it's all going. I have heard us speak of the insightful mind, can you dive into that a little bit?

Pablo Sender 12:11
Yes, in the Theosophical view, there is far more to the human psyche, that what we know by means of regular psychology, for example, and I mean regular because again, in psychology, too, there are new lines of work on theory that are getting closer to the spiritual, but our normal conception at the psychological level of what a human being is, is far more limited than the Theosophical view. And similarly with science, which talks about the brain. And the idea is that besides this kind of mind, which uses thought as as the main cognitive tool, what we are doing now is using thoughts and words to communicate. Besides this, there is a deeper aspect of our minds, which can perceive and understand things that thought is not necessarily able to lose. We see this in mistakes from all religions, when we see even in our western tradition, see Plotinus for example, one of the main characters in the Neoplatonic philosophy which influenced quite a bit early Christianity Plotinus was very rational, they would follow the teachings of Plato and Pythagoras, but he would always say there is a religion of, of life of human beings that escaped the level of thought and logic. And in general, in our culture, we think, okay, if there is a realm like that, it is irrational. It is something that maybe miraculous but the sovereign, supernatural doesn't follow the laws of nature or logic. But the the idea in the Theosophical view, which coincides with many mistakes is that there is a higher kind of intelligence that can grasp realities, beyond the processes of thought and logic, and then you can present them in a logical way using your thoughts, but the perception is beyond the that kind of cognition. And the importance of this is that this is what brings to a person is sense of the reality of the spiritual because by mere logic, how are we going to believe that anything exists? beyond what the senses bring, we can buy logic because thought is based on the senses. But when this higher mind is accessed, then we have real experiences not imagination, we have real insights realizations, that, that there is something more and that changes how we live.

Alex Ferrari 15:29
So then what is the lower mind?

Pablo Sender 15:31
The lower mind would be the mind that we normally use, by means of higher thinking, etc, which lower only in terms of philosophical categories, not lowering the sensories, that is not useful. The lower mind is the one that we use for everyday life. The problem is, if we are limited to that, then there is a whole aspect of the of life and the cosmos that escapes us. Most spiritual traditions have different practices for us to start awakening these other higher mind, which is what brings a person in touch with those more spiritual realities, motivations, feelings, thoughts, etc.

Alex Ferrari 16:26
So it's kind of like connecting to your higher self in many ways.

Pablo Sender 16:30
Yes, yes, yes, we can put it that in that way.

Alex Ferrari 16:33
So what are the stages? In the consciousness of our mind? I've heard you speak about that.

Pablo Sender 16:41
Yes, there are many stages, I mean, all classifications are arbitrary. So there are many ways of describing anything. But one of the descriptions we find in theosophical literature that I find quite useful, is that there are different levels of consciousness that we can see in our daily life. One of them is the mind that is being driven basically, by our emotions or desires. We see this happens a lot in let's say, for example, politics, universities, see that many times people support certain things, not because they have thought out policies and the effects of the policies and the causes of that, but rather, because they feel first in a certain way. And then they use their minds to justify how they feel. And therefore, those the positions of many people are not based on facts or rational discourse, they are based on feelings. This happens in religion, the this happens in relationships with other people. So that's the level that we will call the desire mind, the level where the mind is a vehicle for our desires, fear, fears, wishes, etc. Now, there is a more rational, state of consciousness more rational, I mean, that has its own rationality and intelligence, but more rational in the typical definition of what rationality is, that would be the mind that tries to look at facts, independently of how we feel about those facts. And that's when the lower mind, let's say, is working at its best. So we look rationally we look at the facts, we try to connect the facts in the best possible way understand that. And that is a mind that is, I think, in general, a better guide than in mind that is just an expression of the desires. This doesn't mean that desires are wrong, it's just that desires and emotions are giving us some input about the world, the person in relationship, but then the mind has no idea and he has to work with that and try to understand those emotions, for example. Now, beyond that, there is the mind that is aspiring to something beyond it, because we see that sometimes the intellect, can can get close in it in its own world and reject anything that the intellect cannot verify or perceive. So, there is what we could call the aspiring mind the mind that is trying to see if there is something more and that aspiring mind is like a bridge between that higher mind that we described earlier and the more concrete mind. So the aspiring mind is perhaps a that that mind that is trying to search for more trying to see, to challenge the perceptions that come through our senses trying to aspire to something different. And as we nourish that one, then we start getting in touch with that higher mind, which, you know, from the point of view of the law of the lower mind or the concrete mind, competition makes sense, because you maximize your profits by competing, the higher mind begins to take into account other things that are connected more to the value of human relationships, of cooperation, of love, of a healthy relationship. So all those are things that are, are that are important for the higher mind, not for the lower mind. So we are all in touch, to some degree with all these levels. But we can nourish those that you know, that are higher in this philosophical category, because at least we believe that's what will bring in better life for everybody. And we can still be successful. But you seen more the higher mind and the selfish mind.

Alex Ferrari 21:21
Now, we've been talking about the mind a lot. Can you talk about the power of our thoughts? Because it's something that we all we're all pretty brutal with ourselves, in that mind. So can you talk a bit about the power of our thoughts and what we can do to hopefully help better our lives with our thoughts?

Pablo Sender 21:37
Yeah, absolutely. I think many traditions, talk about the fact that we are, we become basically what we think about, not in a magical way, sometimes in the new age, this is postulated, like in a magical way. But this is a very, if you think about it a very obvious, you know, conclusion, the fact that we are what we think and the importance of thought, even in Christianity, for example, when you see in the Bible that Jesus says, A sin is not only in the art, but in thinking about committing the act. You know, if you devoid that from the connotations of what sin is, etc, what he's saying there is that, if you keep thinking on something, eventually, you will start being have the tendency to act in that way. Because the way we think, begins to generate a certain worldview, and begins to prepare us for a certain kind of action, that eventually we are going to enact externally. So the idea is that we, when we start thinking, in terms of more holistic terms, not only our action changes, but also how we perceive life, you see people who are very competitive, let's say, they will tend to interpret the whole world and all relationships in a transactional way. This is only natural, because we the way we think shapes our perception. So if you start thinking in other terms, you will start perceiving life in a different way. We can talk in more esoteric ways about this, there is the idea of what we can call the aura. The aura is supposed to be some, the means of perception, just as we have a physical body, we have an emotional body, that is part of the aura, that is a means of perception of the the emotional aspect of life. And similarly a mental body, which is the means of perception on the mental level. And the idea is that all our thoughts, let's say taint the way in which our emotional and mental bodies work. So it's like looking with glasses. So if we have thoughts that tend to be benevolent about others and about ourselves that tend to be cooperative, that tend to be you know, all these kinds of things, then that's how we are going to perceive ourselves and others. We can't be, you know, judgmental with others without being judgmental to ourselves, because we have the same mind for both things. So, one of the main or fundamental practices in the Theosophical tradition that is proposed to people is to begin to pay attention to how we think how we interpret things, and to train our minds to choose the kind of thoughts that we are going to hold. And that when we go into a direction that we feel is unhealthy to develop the ability to say, I don't want to go in that direction. Normally, we don't have any means, you know, we worry, we think ill of something that one person may do. And we need to understand normally we don't have means to know what the reality will be. And then we can say, I'm not going to go there before I have to face the situation or the person. So let us stop the mind and focus on something else. And that's a skill, like anything else is a skill, we need to learn to be the masters of our thoughts, and not the opposite to be led by by thoughts and fears, etc.

Alex Ferrari 25:56
So can we create a reality?

Pablo Sender 26:00
Well, we can create a reality psychologically, we are constantly doing that we are constantly interpreting life in different ways, we see two siblings in the same family can have a completely different experience of how their parents are or how their lives are. We see in daily life, that things that bother a person, don't bother the other one, we are, we do create the reality in the sense of how we perceive reality. And, and that's very, very objective in the sense that it does produce a completely different experience of life, just by means of our our interpretation, you know, you go to the theater with high expectations, because everybody says, this is a great movie. And then chances are, you are going to be disappointed. If you would have gone without expectations, many times you would, would enjoy the movie more. So you see how just the mental image changes the experience. Now, the idea of changing external objective reality. In general, I would say that in the Theosophical tradition, the view tends to be and I say tends to be an I speak in this way, because there is freedom of thought in society. So I'm giving you you know, my take of my my study, work tends to be that this idea in the new age that we just think about something and that will immediately manifest and it's kind of overblown is a more an overly simplistic interpretation of certain laws in in in life. It's evident that we can just turn physical reality, because with our thoughts, but there are there is the possibility of doing that. By highly developed people we know, yogi's, that can precipitate manifest material, like certain things, blocky, one of the founders of the Theosophical Society did that in front of people many times because one of her strategies to challenge the materialistic view of science at the time. She had been trained in Tibet for many years, etc. And she had this power. So she would, for example, in India, call people in the government of the colonial government in India, and do these demonstrations and say, I want you to explain in a scientific way, how am I able to do this? And then she would say, these shows that science doesn't know everything about the cosmos, and that there is room for a lot of things that science doesn't understand. So that was her strategy. But anyway, the point is that highly skilled people can even produce certain things physically, I'm Lebowski would explain the mechanism. This is not a miracle. This is all using laws of nature, which most of which science doesn't know yet. But for most people, and thankfully so most people don't have the power to shape the physical reality in that way. Because if they do, they did, the world would be far more of a chaos than it is the grid. Now, there is one more aspect to keep in mind and that is the what we call karma. And that is that our present thoughts will generate a different objective reality in our next incarnation. Again here if you had said The theory of reincarnation, the idea is that all our thoughts and our desires are kind of designing where we are going to be born in our next incarnation in what circumstances. And therefore they are right now creating our next experience. And it happens many times that people may wish to have power to have to be, you know, to be influential to have power to be the president of something, and they are their strong thoughts and desires may or may not be enough to produce that in this lifetime, maybe they don't have enough, or the circumstances are not right. But that will lead them in a, in a future life to be born in circumstances where they can actually get that, the probably means that if the person is not able, you know, we may want to be a precedent of anything or organization or country, whatever. And eventually, karma will bring us to that. But if we are not able, we are just going to mess up, and that will produce suffering, and that will produce difficulties, and that will produce karmic difficulties. And that's how we learn as a soul. To wish for the right things, you know, the saying God punishes people by granting them their desires. And so anyway, all these things are really complex. But what I want to point out is that our thoughts are actually creating a different objective reality, but mostly for our future experiences.

Alex Ferrari 31:51
Now, how do we actualize our potential?

Pablo Sender 31:57
In some approach, I mean, there are many ways and all spiritual traditions propose a particular way. And I, in the Philosophical Society, we value all of them. Now, it's important that there there are different ways because we are all different. Some people are quite intellectual, and rational, and more devotional approaches, so on, don't give them anything, or the opposite. Some people may be very devotional and more intellectual approaches are not inspiring for them. Other people may be more practical and they want to, they are a spiritual life is about doing and giving and helping, et cetera. So it's great that there are all different kinds of approaches, I think, what is often in the Theosophical tradition, there is something that is offered, that is this idea of three main areas of our lives, that we can start working on. One is the study of the study to understand life and human beings better the study of spiritual literature, also philosophical and even scientific, to the extent that that helps us understand ourselves and life. And the study is important, because it begins to give you a different view, that perhaps you would not have come to by your own thinking, you know, for example, this idea that many traditions talk about karma, this law of causes and effect that says that, you know, whatever we do, we are generating down the, you know, in time, we are generating certain effects that we have to deal with. And therefore, we can think of what we do now, with in a wider or broader perspective. So, you know, studying that and beginning to reflect on it and look, trying to look at your life, etc. You, you begin to have a different view of life. The lifestyle, the worldview that we absorb, as we grow up is a great worldview for material purposes, but it's not so good for spiritual purposes. So we need to actively generate or discover a different worldview, if we are interested in this self actualization that you said. So the study is important. But it's not only intellectual study and person we have many scholars that are experts in what the Buddha said or Jesus said, and they are neither the Buddha or not Jesus. They they in olden knowledge that we incorporate has to be assimilated. And for that meditation is important. So the study and the meditation by which you try to access that higher mind, so that you begin to perceive the reality of these things. And not just as as intellectual knowledge, that is also important. And the third, let's say practice that is recommended is service of whatever kind service not necessarily limited to the physical giving food to the hungry or things like that. But surveys in the sense of begin to be interested in, in the welfare of everybody in, in people's happiness in trying to be a beneficent force in the world. Because that is an essential part of spiritual growth, as meditation and study may be very self centered, and that self centeredness is a barrier to discover our higher nature. So study meditation and service are normally recommended, as practices that will help us produce the self actualization.

Alex Ferrari 36:22
Now, what is The Secret Doctrine?

Pablo Sender 36:26
The Secret Doctrine is a book that Beloved's key Helena Blavatsky wrote, as I mentioned, she was one of the founders of the Theosophical Society. And what she claimed in this book, she said, what I'm doing here is translating some stanzas from a very old book that is kept by her teachers that she met in Tibet. And she says, this book is not public is not publicly available, they use this book to train, they are disciples, let's say. And they allowed me to translate some of these dancers and publish them, only a few of them, relatively speaking. I mean, she, she published, seven stances that they have several verses. And she said, there are like 60. And what this book is a two volume book that describes the the beginning and development of the cosmos in the first book, and in the second book, the beginning and development of humanity on this planet. And the way that the stands has described, this is a way that is not only from a physical point of view, but it's also from a spiritual point of view, from a psychic point of view it it tries to encompass all the levels in the cosmos, you know, spiritual and intellectual and moral and psychic and physical. So it's a, it's a quite complex book to read. I just finished the book that will be published next month, that is called approaching The Secret Doctrine, where I work on how to study this book, and the main, the main topics, and then some practical practices based on these teachings. And the book is fascinating, but it's not easy to study by on your own, and basically gives you a different view of life, the purpose of life, the Constitution of the cosmos, and human beings and on the journey, why we are alive and where we are going. So that's more or less what she tried to cover there. And she called it The Secret Doctrine, because it was based on these stances that she claim her teachers had, and they are secret. So that's why she called it in that way.

Alex Ferrari 39:13
That's good marketing, too, for that matter. Yes.

Pablo Sender 39:17
The book was sold far before she could even publish it. And he has been in print ever since that there are, you know, scholars in in esotericism. They regard The Secret Doctrine as the most influential book in esotericism.

Alex Ferrari 39:38
And it's fascinating. My final question is, how can we expand our consciousness and awaken in this life as we keep coming back and back to learn lessons as a reincarnated, reincarnated soul, but is there any tips that you have for us to to expand our consciousness now and awake? In now, so we don't have to come back the next time.

Pablo Sender 40:03
Yeah. Yes, besides those general practices of study meditation and service, there are there are things in in, you know, there are many practices that we can use. Many of them I have a class that I have been given for about 10 years, weekly class that is based on these, the practical aspect of theosophical literature, and I give my students an exercise every week to, you know, on different aspects of their spiritual life. And so there is a lot that can be done. In particular, with the idea of expanding our consciousness. One of the main problems that we have is that our body and our senses are like an anchor for our consciousness, we perceive we we normally perceive, only through the brain, and the senses are mostly we have other perceptions, what we call God feelings, and intuitions and inspirations, they come from other aspects of our nature, but for the most part, we proceed through the body. And that keeps our awareness confined. If you study the experiences of mistakes, in many traditions, the Christian tradition or the Hindu or or Tao is some or of course, Buddhism, and even Native Americans, all their great mystics have, at some point, the experience that they that their consciousness is interpenetrating, everything they feel as being inside a tree, inside a bird that is flying by in the very ground, as well as within their bodies. And these are common experiences of people that never met. And this happened throughout 1000s of years if we are going to believe what we read in the Vedas and these very old scriptures. So what this indicates is that in all our consciousness, or consciousness is, let's say, in each of us, there is the possibility of a perception that transcends the body, the use of this particular brain and these particular senses, and we can feel ourselves as being far beyond the physical body. But the habit of perceiving only through the physical body is an essential limitation. So part of the practices to expand our consciousness, besides the the necessity to learn about our other aspects, to learn about our spiritual nature, etc, one practice we can do is to try to have this sense of being, you know, we always feel we are inside the body, well try to feel the opposite the bodies inside you, you as a sphere of consciousness, because a sphere of consciousness, really the bodies inside us, we are in the whole aura, and we can expand that aura. And if in meditation, we can perceive at the level of these higher bodies, this is exactly what we perceive, we perceive we are the sphere of consciousness, and the bodies within. So without necessarily having to have a psychic experience of the type that I just mentioned. It is a good practice. For example, if you are walking on a park, try not to feel that you are within the body. Try to expand your sense of presence, we do have a sense of, you know what we call my personal space, we have like a sense that I begin in a certain place, and if you come too close, you're invading my personal space. So use that sense of personal space and try to extend it to try to feel that your presence is this in this sphere. And then when you work, as I said, feel that you are far beyond the physical body. In meditation, there are techniques in which you can visualize like a bubble around your body and feel your presence there and then you can expand your bubble more and feel your presence there. And all of this produces a certain let's call it flexibility in our consciousness, by means of which we really start having a say means that, that the body is only a very small part of ourselves. And it typical feelings that come with that is a feeling of lightness and expansion and freedom, the feeling of freedom is quite characteristic of beginning to perceive beyond the physical body. So, you know, just to mention one particular practice this, this practice is quite effective, I have an app that, you know, Chimes every hour, and then I stop for a few seconds, and I tried to have the sense of expansion. This is something that I have been working for quite a bit. And it is amazing how you can really feel an expansion of your being of who you are.

Alex Ferrari 45:55
Fair enough. Now, I'm going to ask you a few questions to ask all of my guests tonight, quick kind of rapid fire. What is your definition of living a good life?

Pablo Sender 46:06
Living the life that is not only about me, but is about all of us, because ultimately speaking, we are one.

Alex Ferrari 46:15
What is your definition of God?

Pablo Sender 46:18
God, is that the sacredness that is in life, I don't believe that God is an entity, but God is the sacredness that is in everything that exists in the cosmos.

Alex Ferrari 46:33
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Pablo Sender 46:36
The ultimate purpose of life is to realize our divine nature, that we are not this small, limited person, but that we are a divine divine consciousness, and we are using this limited person to express ourselves on the physical plane.

Alex Ferrari 46:57
And where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

Pablo Sender 47:01
I guess the best place would be on my YouTube YouTube page, because there are many talks there if you're interested in these concepts. So Pablo Sender channel, you can find it there. I have also a website with some articles that I that I written and a couple of books. And then I work in education for the Theosophical Society in America. So I give weekly classes online. So if you want to participate live, search for the website of the Theosophical Society in America, and you will find me there.

Alex Ferrari 47:41
I want to thank you again, so much for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure talking to you. And we can talk for hours about these concepts. That said, we just barely scratched the surface of the meaning of life. But I appreciate you coming on the show and for all the work you're doing to help awaken souls around the world, my friend so thank you so much.

Pablo Sender 47:59
Yeah, thank you and I really enjoyed having this conversation. It's evident that you know, by your questions that you are serious and intelligent and I really enjoyed this kind of podcast thing.

Alex Ferrari 48:15
I appreciate you my friend. Thank you.

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