YOU Wouldn’t Believe THIS Unless You SEE It With Your OWN EYES! with Linda Clemons

In today’s enriching episode, we welcome Linda Clemons, an expert in body language and non-verbal communication, whose insights offer a profound understanding of how we communicate beyond words. Linda’s journey from a successful career in sales to becoming a renowned body language expert is a testament to the power of effective communication in all aspects of life.

Linda begins by discussing the foundational principles of non-verbal communication. According to studies, only 7% of our communication is based on words, while a significant 93% is composed of non-verbal elements such as tone and body language. Linda emphasizes, “Our words are powerless or powerful, passionate or passive, poison or potent. And once the words are out, we can’t retrieve them.” This highlights the importance of not just what we say, but how we say it and how our body conveys it.

Linda Clemons explains that body language is our first language, often communicating more than our words. From a young age, we learn to read and interpret non-verbal cues instinctively. For example, a mother can discern her child’s feelings through their facial expressions and body posture even before they speak. Linda shares a powerful quote she often uses: “I cannot hear what you are saying because who you are being is getting in the way.” This encapsulates the essence of non-verbal communication—our actions and presence often speak louder than our words.


  1. Congruence in Communication: Linda emphasizes the need for congruence between our words, tone, and body language. When these elements are aligned, our communication becomes more authentic and effective.
  2. Awareness of Non-Verbal Cues: By becoming more aware of non-verbal cues, we can better understand others and improve our interactions. This awareness helps in both personal and professional relationships, enhancing trust and connection.
  3. Impact of First Impressions: First impressions are powerful and often based on non-verbal communication. Linda advises being mindful of our body language, especially in initial interactions, to create a positive and lasting impression.

Linda also delves into the importance of understanding micro-expressions—those brief, involuntary facial expressions that reveal true emotions. She explains that while these expressions can be fleeting, they are powerful indicators of a person’s true feelings. For instance, a quick twitch of the lip or a flash of the eyes can convey emotions that words might conceal. This understanding can be particularly useful in situations where trust and honesty are crucial.

Moreover, Linda discusses the significance of body language in professional settings. She shares that successful leaders often use body language to convey confidence and openness. For example, exposing the palms during conversation can signal honesty and openness, while closed postures can suggest defensiveness. In her workshops, Linda teaches professionals how to harness the power of body language to enhance their leadership and communication skills.

One intriguing aspect Linda highlights is the concept of “leakage”—the unintentional expression of emotions through body language. Even when people try to hide their true feelings, these emotions often leak out through micro-expressions and body movements. By paying attention to these subtle cues, we can gain deeper insights into others’ true emotions and intentions.

Linda Clemons also offers practical tips for dating and building personal relationships. She advises maintaining an open body posture, leaning in to show interest, and using facial expressions to validate and engage with the other person. These non-verbal signals help create a sense of connection and trust, making interactions more meaningful and enjoyable.

In conclusion, Linda Clemons’ expertise in body language and non-verbal communication offers valuable insights into how we can improve our interactions and relationships. By becoming more aware of our non-verbal cues and striving for congruence in our communication, we can connect more authentically with others and enhance our personal and professional lives.

Please enjoy my conversation with Linda Clemons.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 198

Linda Clemons 0:00
So but he said in that study that our words are 7% of our communication. So Alex, think about this 7% are the words that are coming out of our mouth, or they are powerless, you know, or powerful, passionate or passive, you know, poison or potent, our words. And once the words are out, we can't retreat.

Alex Ferrari 0:22
I'd like to welcome to the show linda Clemons. How you doin Linda?

Linda Clemons 0:40
I'm doing great Alex thank you.

Alex Ferrari 0:42
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you. I've never spoken to a body language expert before. And it's something that's so important to us because we all interact with human beings on a daily basis. And I don't know if you know this or not Linda, but not everything that we say is what we really feel. I don't know if you know this or not.

Linda Clemons 1:00
Absolutely, absolutely. And now it's it's so funny, because we can say one thing, but your body will scream out something else. It's kind of like when you're growing up, your mother was asking you to do something that you may comply with it. But if you give the frown on your face, or change your tone, or your body language turns away, your mother will look at you said, you know, you better act like you want to do this. So it is so true, it doesn't matter what we say, our nonverbal is actually will get in the way. And when favorite quotes, Alex's by Emerson and I use this all the time, when I'm sharing on the subject, and I'm gonna clementines it a little bit. And it goes like this. I cannot hear what you are saying. Because who you are being is getting in the way. Oh, such a great quote. Oh, and I think it guys or that said, you know, we've heard the phrase Action speaks louder than words. And, and if my late granny was alive, she would say, Honey, I hear you talking, but I don't see you walk in. So it's so critical that you know, our words, and our tone and our nonverbal are congruent. So yeah, it's, it's our first language.

Alex Ferrari 2:06
You know, so interesting, too, because coming from Hollywood, as you can imagine, the amount of people who love to talk, love to talk, and they don't do it for my, you know, working in the business for almost 30 years. The people who don't talk that much, or the are, I found to be the ones who do a hell of a lot more than the people who talk a whole lot, generally don't have a lot of stuff going on. And they're trying to pretend that they're much bigger than they are, which is I'm going to assume most of Hollywood. And then there's the occasional people who could literally do pick up a phone and do things, get things done. And then within six months, you're you're rocking and rolling, where other people are like, oh, yeah, I'm over here. I'm talking to Steven Spielberg, I'm talking to this. And then you call up, you know, somebody who you know, who knows Steven Spielberg? And like, is this person work with Steven? Stevens? Never heard of this guy, man. I don't know what he's talking about. So it's so funny how that is? How in your experience, I mean, as they say, quiet waters run deep. Is that your experience?

Linda Clemons 3:09
Absolutely. Think about this. People who are doers, they do. They just do. They get in the business of doing why everyone is waiting on the island, how we're gonna get off, what are we going to do someone build the ship over again, the doer is doing it's building the little shack, it's getting work building the boat, get off the doers doing talkers, are usually steel, they just usually they're, they're just simply getting it out through the verbal. So that's what I've learned a long time ago, is that when doers do it, then they'll give you their commitment. And they go into action. Because the action does speak a whole lot louder than the words. Others like to hear themselves talk. So those particular people and they were talking about Nollywood, they could be auditory communicators, and auditory communicators, you know, they love to hear themselves talk. And you know, thinking about Hollywood when I when I look at some of the greatest actors and actresses, and I believe Meryl Streep, one of the most nominated actresses, I believe in history, the most nominated got most nominated. And you know, Alex, when you look at her, I think when she did the role playing Margaret Thatcher I when I was looking at Margaret Thatcher, she gets into that role and, and, and but what would think about this, what it would look like if we're going to the movies, so let's say Alice, we're gonna have a movie day, and we're going to the movies. And all we see is the actors, just reading the lines are just going over the lines without doing anything. No motion, nothing. Just the words. We're not paying for that. We're paying for. Stop, stop. You had me at hello. We're paying for all of that. The movements that Oh, did you see the way he looked at her? Did you see she just came back? Oh my gosh, she just realized that's her long lost husband. We're looking for those movements so that we can flow with it. And it's so important. It is so important.

Alex Ferrari 4:56
So tell me how did you get involved in this kind of this business this worked you do?

Linda Clemons 5:00
Thank you so much. You know, I gotta tell you, I was country before country was cool. So I've been doing this a long, long time, well over 40 years and I have the opportunity. I'm trained in analytical interviewing, which is a nice word for interrogation. It's like an analysis. And what's so interesting, I was in a boot camp in the mountains, 80 hours, you'll see me mountains, right, I'm gonna say that right? 80 hours in the mountains. There were retired ATF, FBI, CIA agents, doing a bootcamp for military personnel. You know, I didn't have a military background. Yeah, I was in ROTC when I was in high school rank very high. But I was in sales all of my life. I was a top sales producer. And I'm thinking, I'm already a superstar in sales. Alex, I'm making I want to take this thing to the next level. I want to learn what they're what they're talking about, and what they do when they do interrogation. What CIA does what the Russians do, I want to learn the behavior science, and it was the most eye opening experience for me. So one of my greatest aha was not too long ago. It was of course, during the situation with the George Floyd situation, and you had all commentators, given their feedback, and different body language, different analysis, we're coming up with one body language expert. Well, no FBI agent, best seller, New York Times best seller book, Joe Navarro, you know, best seller, and he recommended me when the media called him and I'm thinking, I've never met him. I've got all his books, Alex, everything is God. I know what other body language experts out there are doing. And he told the producer that Ms. Clemens is far more the best expert now. Is it? Alex? Is it or was it because I'm a woman of color? Based on the situation? I don't know, our perhaps he saw my work otherwise, he would have never recommended me. So you never know who's watching you. But the way I do, and I did something for Mindvalley. Not too long ago, body language dating. But the way I do it is a little bit different than most body language experts out there, I get into one accord and sync with the presence of the individual, I'm 100% present in their presence. So to the point that I'm picking up the cadence to your breathing pattern. So the next thing, you know, our hearts are just insane. You know. And so as I build that rapport with that individual, then I begin to ask a series of questions, first level questions, which simply gives you the facts on the response. Hey, what is your name? My name is Alex Ferrari. Okay, where do you live? I live in Texas. So those are facts. That doesn't mean Oh, Alex is learning. Then I began to do second level where I begin to peel the onion of the question, to get the feeling. And then the highest level third level, which gives the emotional reason why you're saying what you're saying. So I take the time to do it, really get to know the person so that I can watch those micro expressions. You know, Alex, have you ever been in a room with someone. And they're, they're talking about someone and I just had been in a room in the meeting, that someone said, you know, what, I, you know, I just hope he does something else with the project and blah, blah, blah, he's that the best person for the job, but she's not the best person. And they thought the person was gone. They thought they left the building with Elvis. The next day, you know, the guy or the woman, or they come back into the door. The person that said it, immediately, they freeze, they freeze. That's why people walk in a room, you ever walk into a room that you ever fill it with a talking about me, you ever walk in that room, and all of a sudden, Alex they get everybody gets quiet? And you go, what? What were you talking about me? And so are our amygdala, the part of our brain, which is our truth, brain doesn't lie. And the moment that that stimuli, or someone asks you a question, and you decide to maybe give an alternative answer, you know, that's a nice way to say lie, right? Give an alternative answer. It doesn't matter what you say, your body's gonna get in the way and tell the truth.

Alex Ferrari 9:16
It's funny. It's funny, because if you're even going back into like high school, and you're sitting around with a bunch of guys or gals, and, and they're like, Oh, do you like Bobby? And the girls like, No, I hate Bobby. But you could see in their face, that veil and there it was like, what do you use the word like the second we said the word Bobby you lit up? And it's like, they can't stop it. It's your sociopath. If you can stop it. Essentially. That's the sociopaths have that ability.

Linda Clemons 9:44
Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. That's why I said people all the time. Unless your sociopath or psychopath, you know, and they do have that ability because that's how they think they, their brain truly believes it. That's why everything's congruent. But you right? I don't like Look at my face. I don't like Bobby, John. And you're laughing at the same time. I don't like. And that laugh really?

Alex Ferrari 10:10
Nervous laugh, of course. So can you tell me about what can be communication theory is?

Linda Clemons 10:15
Ok so let's talk. The communication theory was a study done by Dr. Maha Rabin out of UCLA well over 50 years ago, and it was based on an intimate interaction, one on one, but 100 people that were in groups, small groups, and how we respond emotionally and non verbally. And with that study, he discovered, and of course, you always have people that come along later on other experts that says, Oh, we dispute the study, but they haven't done a study, right? So but he said in that study, that our words are 7% of our communication. So Alex, think about this 7% are the words that are coming out of our mouth? Are they powerless, you know, are powerful, passionate, or passive, you know, poison or potent, are words. And once the words are out, we can't retreat them. So just think if you said something, and perhaps we you know, we'd love data before we made a mistake, didn't have the right data, we say something and we're wrong. And you see the look on the individual's face. You know, we got 43 muscles in our face. And so you can imagine what those that expression that comes when you hurt someone, but once the words are out, we can't retrieve them back. 7% every, you know, actor in Hollywood, they have to make sure they've got those, the right words that are on the script, and the words come across in the study. 38% of our communication is our tonality. You know, it's the same that goes, it's not what you say, but what how you say it, but I'm gonna do a remix on that. It's not just what you say and how you say it. It's what they hear. So it goes back. So, for example, if the if the if the spouse is trying to talk to the wife, and she's trying to be mad, or whatever, she goes, Stop, look at me, look at me stop so that the shoulders is going one thing, but the voice is saying, Stop. So the tone is sending a different message, tone, and a different message and the tilt of the head. So 38% and workshop that I do sales, hypnotherapy is just using the words and knowing when to use pregnant pauses. If I'm talking to your audience, and I say to them, listen, Alex, Steve, Linda, Brenda, Kevin, everyone that out there, if you don't hear anything else that I'm sharing with you, I need you to hear this. You can hear it in the silence. So knowing when and how to use the tone. If I said to you, Hey, Alex, I saw Steve and Sandy at the mall the other day, and they were alone. Okay, Linda, big deal. People go to the mall all the time. But what if I did this? I saw Steve and Sandy at the mall the other day. They were alone. Same words, different tone. 7% words 38% tonality? And Alex 55% of our communication in the communication theory is nonverbal. So if you add the 55 and a 38 Wow. 93%. So it's critical. It's how you show up. That actually leaves a lasting impression.

Alex Ferrari 13:38
It's, there's a comedian who is it's I think it was funny. So he did a little bit about something like this. He said about those the same words like the girl was like, you know, Guy was with his wife or something like that. It's like, and she's like, No, stop it. Oh, my god, stop it. Right. And then she's like, now imagine if a court reporter said, Your Honor, she said stop it. Oh, my god, stop it. You're bad. He didn't say it that way. Say it that way. But you see the difference, just by how it was? And how was how was put out. But the other thing is interesting, too is you said something as to how it's received. Most fights that happen inside are arguments or disagreements that happen in life, but especially in a marriage or in a romantic relationship. It's all about how that was the intention is not always received. It's so so critical. Because like you say something and then your wife would get angry. I'm like, because guys aren't sophisticated. We're very we're blunt objects. Let's just put it straight. We're blunt objects. So when we say something in this agreement, we generally mean what we say. Generally gentle because we're again, not sophisticated animals. But but then the way exactly but the way the other person received Is that and you get and then the guy will get like, what I didn't know, it's, it's not about taking the garbage out. What do you what do you mean? It's like, no, it's so much more like a no, but I just it's the garbage I know it's the how you said it. And it's just so fast. So most arguments most disagreements, most I would argue most pain in communication that we have as human beings is misunderstanding, intention. Is that a fair statement?

Linda Clemons 15:26
Absolutely. That is a fair statement. And of course, the emotional state we are in when we deliver the message, how many times you know, let's just talk about this. You ever received a text message? And if you aren't, Rick, or amiibo? And then you're gonna pick up the phone? Excuse me? What did you mean by that? I don't like the tone. But whose job? Is it? It's not that they've used all caps. It's perhaps how you perceived it. So can you imagine if it happens in the written word? You know, can you imagine what happens when we're talking to somebody? Or where we suspect someone of something? If I were you? I wouldn't do that. If I were you, I wouldn't do that. See it just all how we deliver that. So how powerful that can be Alex, how powerful that can be in just communicating with our, with our children, right? With their loved ones, with their with your wonderful audience. You know, with your director, if you're an entrepreneur, with your team, if you're building a company, it is very critical. Sometimes we have to think before we launch where my grandmother was like before you launch that drug.

Alex Ferrari 16:34
Well, let me ask you, though, in today's world, there's so much more communication, especially the younger generations, coming up through texting. Texting is such a, I find it a horrible way to communicate. Because there's no tone, you can maybe put an emoji in there, and they help trust me there. Because if you say something, and I've caught myself doing this, I texting something. And I think, oh, they can do better. No, I'm joking. But happy hahaha face yourself. Because if not, it all depends on how it's received from the other end. There's a key a Key and Peele, the comedy, The comedy team, they did an entire skit about two people, two guy friends, texting each other one was getting angrier and angrier. And the other one was just getting more and more relaxed. It's like, do you want me to come over there right now? He's like, Yeah, man, come over right now. I want to I want to this is I can't stand this anymore. I know we should. This is horrible. Like it was just a Larry's. But again, there's miscommunication is, and by the way, miscommunication is one of the cores of good comedy, right! Comedy is miscommunication,

Linda Clemons 17:43
Miscommunication. I love it. That is so true. And then someone would say, Well, I thought you meant well, it's not what I said, what I thought you meant. It's what you hear, and how you interpret that. So and that's why it's so important. You know, it's strange that you mentioned about the texting, I did a training session earlier this year, because, you know, during the pandemic, there were a lot of college kids that were finishing up their to last two years, you know, four years of college the last two years during the pandemic, and of course, not having that connection. So the, they brought me in to be able to help these college kids with their interviews, because their interpersonal skills was just like this. And it was very difficult for them to look and communicate without automatically looking down. And so just to get them in those interviews, I mean, they look good on paper, the grades, and their their work that they've done, but their interpersonal skills were not great at all, because that time locked up. And so it's very, very critical. You know, that as great communicators, you want to make sure it's not always about us. It's, I think, was Stephen Covey that once said, begin with the end in mind. So how do you want the person to feel when they leave your presence? Right? How do you want them to feel? Alex Do you want you know, what, just imagine like, if someone right now, who was listening to your show that, you know, it could have been just having a bad day, you know, they woke up, the coffee was flat, then you know, coffee was cold and the tire was flat, they found out the dog needed braces, everything is happening, right? And then all of a sudden they turn on your show, and then their mood is transformed. And so that's what I tell everyone, and especially when I'm dealing with executives C suite, you know, there's a silent language of leaders, people are not going to hear what you say. They're going to actually hear what you do, and watch what you do. That's what they believe, because your actions are overriding everything. But it is so important that every time someone leaves your presence, and this is what I believe they should lead better than when they approached you. They should lead better. And for those of you who are out there wanting to be people magnets and and you know, increase your interpersonal skills Your Dating Skills, whatever. You want to be around people that elevate you, and make you feel good.

Alex Ferrari 20:06
Oh, no, there's there's no question that I mean, we all have those friends that bring us down, we're like, Well, we did. I mean, as I gotten older, I've let go of those friends. Because I just thought I was just like, I'm too old for this, you know, exploitative. Just can't, I can't I just can't take this anymore. I'm just getting too old for this stuff. But, you know, I wanted to ask you though, from your perspective, you know, I think the whole interpersonal communication, you know, being able to talk to another human being, unfortunately, I feel it's becoming more and more generational, where your generation, my generation, we had no other choice. We got on a phone and spoke, we got into person to talk. We played out in the streets, this and that. And nowadays, and maybe I sound like an old fogy talking like this now, but, but nowadays, the younger generation is all about the texting, is there even scared to have come? So in their dating life, they're just like, I've seen, I've seen shows about this, that they just don't know how to talk. But they look literally each other. They text each other, they have no understanding of how, and they have no skills on cues, physical cues, micro aggressions, micro cues, they have no understanding of that. And even if we haven't, I haven't been trained in that like you have. But I could pick up a couple things. I mean, I'm in the communications business for 2030 years, I've worked with a lot of people, as a director on a set, you need to communicate your vision to multiple people. And you got to know when the person is just not picking up these things you have to pick up but that's, it takes time to do you. What do you feel about that?

Linda Clemons 21:33
Oh, my gosh, Alex, you're on the money. I'm telling you this, that, you know, I've seen I listen, I had a friend her she did. Like her daughter had a what is it the sleepover they have the Girls Party, and the room, she goes into the room. And the room was quiet. The girls I mean, I know when I grew up, we were having fun and talking about the boyfriend stories were like Greece, like Greece. Greece goes into the room. And they're all committed they all taxi. And then just what was the purpose of the get together? And the other thing that drives me batty is that if you're in an office, for those that are sitting back in the office are able to come in, some are still in a hybrid, that you are emailing someone, and they're sitting right next to you, and they're in a cubicle right next to you. So now you're missing now, we are cocooning, if you will, right, because what's happening, we've been in for a long, long time, I don't want to go back. I don't want to be around people. I don't want to they don't want to do that anymore. And they don't realize it's hurting their development. And there's something else about this, this our wonderful generation are future leaders. There was a study that was done, because this particular generation, the parents, if you will, they're like little caterpillars. They weren't that this generation, they weren't able to like break out of the shell to get their colors. You know, that's how a butterfly gets his colors, it has to go through the struggle. They weren't able to do that. Because the parents were saying, I don't want Billy to go through what I went through. I don't want Alex Mikayla to go through what I went through. And so they make it easy. So now here's what the study said, this generation, millennials and z's, are seeking more therapy, psychiatric help than any other generation before us. It's in vogue, if you will, for them to say, I'm going to see my therapist, because you and I have to like know how to get back in there and work it out. Get back in there, work it out. You know, we have to do that. So we learned the resilience. That's why you know, so what's the first email? Or was it back in the 90s? You know, I mean, gosh, I've been doing a networking and relationship building before Zuckerberg was even a born he didn't even have a face, let alone a face book. And so and the old fashioned way, being building relationships, adding value, by getting, you know, giving more than you get, they don't do that. And I used to tell and I tell my nieces and my nephews, and the young young adults that I talked to listen to me, Jesus, because you have 5000 friends on Facebook, that's not friends. That's so so Do you know how long it takes to get a good friend and develop a relationship. And they don't have that. So when there's a little dramatic thing, because someone on the on the internet, you bet your life as a part of that and all of a sudden they insult you or they don't like you. There's some of these people are shattered, you know. believable and, and I hate to say this suicide among among that generation is high. But yeah, they're seeking more therapy than than anyone else because they're going through problems and challenges and never nothing on conflict resolution. We need it in the schools, be the end of the universities, nothing on you know how the art of and the art of resilience. They know nothing that, you know, they don't have that. No, as a soft spot for me.

Alex Ferrari 25:07
I don't know. I mean, look, I mean, I think our parents, you know, look, we could fairly say our parents loved us, but they were savages. And our grandparents were even more savages. I mean, to me the things I would hear what my grandparents did to my parents, I'm like, I'm, like, surprised that I even survived. You know, it, like, it's, you know, I come from Gen X. So, you know, it's a completely different perspective. And, you know, you just, it's you were there was struggled, there wasn't the ease that there is today with the technology. But our generation is the bridge generation, because we knew what life was like without a remote control. And we also were there with the birth of the Internet, and we know how to navigate both worlds. You know, as opposed to, like, my kids were born into this magical world where they can watch any cartoon whenever they want, for days on end. And I go gather around children, I'm going to tell you a horror story. Back in the 80s, there was one day you get to watch cartoons, and it was Saturday morning. And if you missed it, you'd have to wait to the next Saturday.

Linda Clemons 26:12
What we love, but we love homework. From you, oh my gosh, you know, it's just like, it was so funny. There was I don't know, it was a commercial or something. And one of the shows where they had so many young adults, they were looking at the rotary phone, and they will know. They were looking at you. What is it?

Alex Ferrari 26:41
Yeah, my kids, I walked into an antique store. And I saw one of those and my kids were like, what's that? That's a phone. And they're like, what? And I know that's a phone. You mean? Like like your phone in your pocket? I go no, no, here and let me show you how it works. And then I started to dial and their eyes were like, What is going on? I go, Yeah, you would have to dial seven. And if you screwed up on a number seven guests started up all over again. And the horse was the numbers, the phone numbers with like all nine, eight, sevens. Nine is it? It's horrible. It's like,

Linda Clemons 27:14
Alex, are we that old?, are we talking like our parents?

Alex Ferrari 27:18
I think generally speaking, my show is a little old skews a little bit older. So I think a lot of people are laughing right now hopefully. But the kids who are listening. The struggle was real.

Linda Clemons 27:30
Struggle is real.

Alex Ferrari 27:34
Struggle was real. No. It was a struggle.

Linda Clemons 27:38
And you know, it's so funny. We're talking about this. Because I was I think I was aware of body language growing up with my parents, you know, I all day, you know, you're looking at kids and how they're interacting with their parents really sit down timeout. My mother will give you that look that your death just through your body. You.

Alex Ferrari 28:03
I do see, I've brought the look back from my gender back. I brought it back my children. And I can't do it. I can't do it on it has to have I can't fake it. You have to get into a motion. I'm not Meryl Streep. I can't just bring it up like that. But I'll do a look. And my kids will like, No, I pierced I got like, I cut right through them with my eyes. And my wife, oh my god, they this is how bad they are about cues. Because I can sense with my wife when she's not when they're getting on her nerves. And I have I have probably about a good 1520 minute head start on the kids. Meaning that I can tell something's coming. It's kind of like an earthquake monitor. I'm like, Oh, that's good. This volcano is gonna pop any second now. And I would tell them, I even say it out loud. Now even if so my wife get here and go, girls. You're about 10 minutes before something happens. You don't want to happen. And they're like, no, no, no, no, I'm like, and I like clockwork, like clockwork, they do something pops off. And the same thing goes my wife will say to my my kids, but I'm I don't I have more emotional and I express myself like that much quicker. So I have a shorter fuse as they say. But but they don't pick up so I've been trying to teach them these little they're, it's funny, and it's cute that we're talking like this. But these are skills that they need to learn like when your dad got home or grandpa got home. You could sense the absolute moment they walked in at that a good or bad day, just by the way they looked and things like that which Alright, so let's let's talk we've been having some fun, but let's talk about

Linda Clemons 29:44
We had a good effect we had a good landscape because we would watch the interaction. But oh, parents? Oh yes. Think about it. Alex. That's how little girls steal that with Mommy says no, you can't have the cookie before dinner. Listen to mommy still. No you can have the cookie before dinner. How does a three year old four year old know when Daddy walks in the door to change her little tone? Hey, Daddy, how does she know how to take her little hand and stroke his cheek and then goes in for the kill? She asked him for a cookie any any any milk? Like, but how is that because they've seen it demonstrated see. And that's why it's so important even as adults and for parents that are out there, when you can tell your your children, Hey, these are the you know, we want you to grow up to be great kid. And, and integrity is important. But if you don't demonstrate it, absolutely. It's gone.

Alex Ferrari 30:37
It's no, you've got to be you have to be an example. And now, by the way, when they do that, because my kids do try to do that to me. And when they do that, I'm like, ask your mother. I don't get I'm not gonna get in trouble. Like, nope. As my mother about that. Nope, that's not my department.

Linda Clemons 30:54
Right, Alex? You feel a trek.

Alex Ferrari 30:56
I'm an old dog. And I like it this way. But oh, wait, the Wi Fi is down. Got you. Oh, the iPads not hooking up. That's daddy's department. That was asked him I love it. So alright, so what are some nonverbal cues? We're talking a lot about nonverbal cues, what are some nonverbal cues that we can pick up on? When we're when we're having a conversation with someone that we can kind of tell the words aren't matching the intention?

Linda Clemons 31:23
Absolutely. So let's talk about this, for some of you that are out there that are still doing the zoom, because you may 7 Zoom meetings are and if some of you that are in person, so let's just say, you know, Alex get gave me a great welcome onto this platform. And what if I came onto the screen, and I said, Alex, I'm so excited to be here. Automatically, the assumption, the folded arms is closed off, you know, and you know, closing off a Power Zone. When I say Power Zone, I'm speaking of the heart area, the throat area of this little dip here is called the suprasternal notch. As a matter of fact, Princess die, when she felt really vulnerable, she would stroke the suprasternal notch and at the same time, Marilyn Monroe would use it to expose the neck to be very seductive. So I'm going to so that's a power zone, the heart area, the belly button, the navel connection, our first connection to another human beings to the umbilical cord. When we turn away, we're cutting off the connection, and of course, the reproductive area. And we'll save that for another show show. So to give you a great example here, so the arms are folded. So here's what happens with biases, pre judgment, their perception is family. Listen up, ladies and gentlemen, the perception is when you fold the arms there to the recipient, or perceives it has been closed off. So what happens if the person judges you on that movement? And they decide, You know what, I'm not gonna watch the show today, because this person is closed off to Alex, and you miss this piece right here. You miss this piece where I'm going like this. You saw me folded arms. When you introduce me, then all of a sudden, I'm talking going like this, and my niece brings me a scarf and says, Oh my god, she must be chilly. But you missed the other movements. How often do we judge the first movement? So when I teach in masterclasses Alex, I tell all my students watch for more than one movement. And we call those clusters looking for more than one movement that validates what you think you think Linda's not in the mood. Okay, what else she's doing her arms folded. Oh, she's turning her body away? Oh, she's looking that way. Wow, that's three movements that validate that. The other thing, whatever is on the mind, shows up in the matter. Whatever is on the mind shows up in the matter. And it could take a millisecond. The moment that you're thinking like, oh, this person gets on my last reserve nerve. Oh, hi. You can't even switch it that those micro expressions, you can't even switch back that quick. Because what's happening, the brain is going to allow the facial expressions to linger because the brain is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is how you really feel I'm sending the right cues down there. And so we tried to override that. Another thing that you could be aware of when you're having a communication, and you walk into a meeting, and it says, Okay, we're going to go over the agenda today. But there's a couple of things that are going on. There's a rumor going around the office, data data die. Did anybody have anything to do with it? Or you know, what was said? So watch this. The moment that you say that timing is critical. Watch for the people who do lip compression. So I'll say to you, Alex, do you know anything about what's going around? I'll say Dorinda, Steve mckaela Do you know anything? What's going around? And all of a sudden, when I get to Steve art, Linda, that Linda goes like this? I'm not quite sure. Okay, why did I do that? Why did I do that? I'm holding it in the brain said girl, you know, you know what's going on? You know exactly what's going on. I know you try to cover for your person, but you know what's going on. So Automatically, I'm trying to suppress what the lip, the amygdala is telling the truth, the truth break, it sends the right signals. And when I see lip compression, that allows me Oh, before I go to the next question, let's begin to peel the onion. So let me ask you this. So Linda, were you there? The meeting that was about 12 o'clock. And I think that's when they had the discussion. And this was said about this and, and then all of a sudden, some other things started happening. So everybody out there that's watching, I want you to do this. Raise your hands, come on out. Let's play with me. Raise your hands, raise your hands. Okay. So take your hands and put them on your thighs, okay, put them on your bikes, and start stroking your thighs. Okay, that's a pacifying gesture. You'll see this happen when people are getting nervous chemicals are being released from the hands. So all of a sudden, they're trying to self soothe themselves. That's a second movement. As soon as I ask you, did you hear anything? Now you're getting nervous. It's probably why I've been called to jury duty, probably about seven times. And ever, ever. Every time the defense interviews me or the prosecutor interviews me, they send me along my way. Because when they find out that I'm a behavior expert, they don't want me in there at a sales expert, because I may sway the jurors. But guess what happens? Half of the body language is gone, Alex, so if you have a witness or suspect on the on the stand, and then all of a sudden, were you aware of what took place on February 14, were you aware that were you at the scene, and that person is withholding information, you're just seeing the upper carriage you're not seeing below the waist? Ah, so what happens if they're crossing their ankles, they're holding back, that's another way of the body abiding the time. And time again, ah, but you can't see that. On the stand, we should have crystal clear stands. So we can see the full body. And then we may not see unless their body is really nervous. If they're doing the footstep bouncing my foot, I'm bouncing my foot right now, but you can't see it. So now that nervous because something, they're getting close, they're getting close, they're getting deep, and all of a sudden, I'm getting nervous. See, they're missing those nonverbal cues. So it's very, very critical. Again, whatever goes on in the mind will come out in the matter. And one more thing. But those of you that watch wonderful presentations like this and watch TED talks, and many people have sent a TED Talk presentation. And there was a study that was done a few years ago, some of your most successful TED Talk presenters use well over 422 hand gestures in an 18 minute span period, speaking with their hands, exposing the pox, compared to those that didn't do too well in the numbers, their numbers were well under 200, upper hand gestures. Why is it when you're doing business with someone, you're talking about money, and you're saying, you know, you have that's the best deal that I can give you there, people feel uncomfortable, because your palms are not exposed. So it's very important when you're speaking, move with purpose, family, and also, when someone who is lying or being deceptive, unless they're a sociopath, or are psychopath it's very difficult, difficult for them to lie for extended period of time, with their palms exposed.

Alex Ferrari 38:29
That's very interesting. So that's why you know, Italians and Latinos like myself are they just, you know, they, they move their hands? Constantly. It's a constant movement, even when I talk you know, when I'm when I talk to people, I when I talk to you, like when I'm interviewing people, my hands are moving, but you don't see them because they're underneath there underneath the camera. So I but I'm always like, yeah, this or that. And you might see the camera shake a little bit, because that's me moving the table. But I always I do and especially if like I'm doing a presentation. I can't hold my hands in. It's like they just, they just pop out constantly to it's a thing. I don't know why, but

Linda Clemons 39:12
It gives it gives fuel to the presentation and the passion with so just Can you imagine what someone's excited? Hey, you just won the lottery, the hands go, yay, you just did this. Yay. You're getting a promotion. Yay. People who are clinically depressed do not raise their hands in the air. Like they just don't care. They don't raise your hands because it changes the emotional state.

Alex Ferrari 39:33
So can we talk a little bit about microaggressions that came up a lot in some, some court cases that I've seen and you know, they always you know, they always have the language expert on CNN or Fox or something like that. And they just like, you see the way to do this. And to the point where like, I think it was one of the Supreme Court nominees that they were being brought up. They they froze frames, and you could see him like angry as they're like talk thing, but they're but they're split seconds like you wouldn't notice them unless you were going frame by frame. What how can we pick up on some of these? These microaggressions? Okay, what are microaggressions?

Linda Clemons 40:12
So, so they're still microaggressions. And I think what you're speaking about when they freeze the frame Alex are micro expressions, expressions. Thank you. Yes. So the micro expressions is like, for example. So someone says to So someone says to you, so Michael, so what do you think about the new director? What do you think about the new producer? What do you think about that, and you go like this watch. You watched me, he's okay. Really quickly, so that that little smile was trying to come out, but it went back. And so even the twitch of the corner of the lip, all of those give signals in a split second, however, we miss it, because so many of us are broadcasting rather than tune in. So many of us bring people in our office, you have to deploy a company and yeah, yeah, I gotta watch one look at my head. It's the end of the frickin month, you've got to meet your quota. sales numbers are back to slow. And then all of a sudden, you've got an employee comes in, they've got a problem, one of your good people, and they want to talk to you, and you don't have the time, but you're trying to pretend that you do. So. Here's what you do. Alex, come on in. Come on in. Come on in. Now, Alex, I'm going to take off the take out the sound. I'm going to just do it on my own. Alex. Look at my hand. So look at the hands. If I said Alex, come on in shooting the palms be exposed. Welcome. Come on in. But I'm doing like this. Yeah, yeah. Look at the breath. Yeah, yeah, come on, in. So just here's what I did with the back of the hand, I just did dismissal to the hand dismiss, we don't realize because that's what you're thinking. And the body sent the right cue, you were just trying to override that. So micro impressions, micro expressions, micro expressions, are those little twitches that you take, it takes a split second, I mean, millisecond that quick that you notice that when you say something to someone, or you ask them a question, or in the interview, you notice it very quickly. And you have to second guess yourself to that, just see that for my feeling something. And that's the thing, when you start saying, you know, I don't know, I don't you know, I maybe it looks good on paper, she looks good on paper, but my feeling is something what it and that's that micro expressions that you're seeing the nuances, those little things, but they're fleeting moments. And they happen very, very quickly. And if we are not tuned in, we miss them. But then you'll start seeing the broader movements from the micro expressions that the person gets more aggressive, if you will, it'll start to grow and expand, you'll see it in the hands. So when I'm looking at folded arms, for example, folded arms doesn't always mean you're closed off, right? always mean that right? It could be a person's norm are their baseline. So in body language, who you are under normal circumstance without any stress, we call it that, well, that's Alex's norm. That's his baseline. That's who he is. So if Alex comes in every day, and does does the podcast Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, for some reason, you tell your wife, or my dinner today, Friday, the same thing, you're out of baseline from the routine, just like with a child that comes in takes up the backpack. So when you know a person's baseline, so if folding the arms is part of your baseline, when you're listening to people, and you're trying to figure out a problem, that's a good time to do it. But if the person doesn't know you, Alex, it takes four to seven, some say eight seconds, I'm gonna give you an extra second to make a good first impression. And the remaining time about 2030 minutes. I'm trying to validate if you're the real deal. So if my initial impression of you when I meet you for the very first time, so you say to me, so yo Clements, tell me where you're from, what's your background? You say? Okay, but how would I know that? That's your norm. So I'm going to my sponsor, or my director or my advocate for the company, who brought me in. So when I say sponsor, you guys, I've been in aggregate, okay, the company so who's someone who brings me in? And they'll say, Linda, Jimmy, all the team players, all the I mean, everyone, but I met Alex and I don't really think he likes me. What would make you say that? Well, when I walked in the room, he just belt it out. So tell me about yourself where you're from, and he folded his arms? Then she's gonna say, oh, that's just Alex, why the heck do I know? Who and HR gives me a directory of all the cray cray personalities in the company? How would I know? So it's critical that first 48 seconds. Now, what I'm looking at what folded arms when the meeting gets heated, and temperatures begin to rise. I'm looking at hand grip. I'm looking right here. outs the pressure, the pressure, see that and from that What I'm noticing that I know, okay, there's a temperature change a temperament is about to change right here, simply from the hand grip, not just the folded arms, but how they dig in. And that's the sign. And that's the sign of anger and someone's temperament. And you want to watch that, when you're in that individuals presence. So those micro movements, those micro expressions are those little bitty things that sometimes we try to suppress. Quite often they're leaked out. And by the way, that's a term and nonverbal communication called leakage. It leaks out, it oozes from you.

Alex Ferrari 45:35
So we've been talking about a lot of these these micro micro expressions and other things, nonverbal cues. Do you have any tips for people who are dating who are trying to find, you know, a maid, boyfriend or girlfriend? Because they haven't had been out of the dating for quite some time? Now? I can't even imagine if I had to go back into the dating pool. My wife and I both look each other like No, no, no, we're just gonna stick around because we'd both neither of us want to go back out there. But, but when you're trying to find him, you're trying to learn about a new person, introduce yourself, see if we're a match. What are some tips on dating and finding love with with body language?

Linda Clemons 46:19
I gotta tell you this, if it's okay for me to mention, I have a body language for dating course with Mindvalley. And it's been really, really popular. So I'm excited about that. And of course, I have about several friends who have wonderful marriages for people who they've met online, because they were just focusing on you know, like, what do you like, what's important, and your values and that kind of thing. But when you're dating in person, here's the thing you got to remember. And everybody write this down. I guess one thing that I came up with, it's open the Word open, like open the door. I like your eyes, lean, like you're leaning in and being like their B, E a m, like there's an internal light and fire in you. So just think of this open, Eileen and beat. So when you're meeting someone, make sure that your powers, your body language is open, that you're not closed off any kind of way. It's very important. Because at the moment that the person sees you, they want to see the expression in your face the eyebrow flash, you know, you ever go to a networking event, Alex, and someone invited you and you walk in the room, you don't see the person that invited you, but you're looking around and look at my eyes, you're scanning the room, that's what you call scanning the room. But you don't see anyone that you know. And then all of a sudden you see your friend Linda, what do you do with your eyes as soon as you see me across the room, Linda? Right. That's an eyebrow flash eyebrow flash. And by the way, the ladies out there, when you see a man that likes you that you could tell that he likes you. Number one, you'll see the eyebrow flash and number two, he'll defy gravity, He'll lift up on his feet like Superman, Linda, Linda, you know, he'll defy gravity. Those are tips right there. Now, here's the thing, that when you are talking, when you're talking, keeping the power, and this is right now for the ladies, keep the power zone open. So let's just say hands on deck. When I say hands on deck, that means your hands are on the table. Because if you're sitting there and you meet at your meeting in a restaurant, and you say okay, so what do you like to do? Oh, that's great. Your hands on the table, but you're not expressive. So book a hands on the table for arm and leaning in with the tilt of the head and the motion around and just listen. Just listen, and validate. So if you if someone says something interesting, wow, you know, the good jokes or whatever wasn't good to just me and love people, women when they laugh at their jokes, whether they're good or not, you know, so but just validate. So give facial validation. It's like, Wow, that's great. So people love people who are interested in

Alex Ferrari 48:53
I'll tell you what means. I mean, I've done over 1000 interviews at this point. And, and I, I do this all day, every day, and I've been doing it for you know, getting close on eight years now. And when I when I've had Occasionally, people who do not give any cues, it's like talking to a wall. And it's not it's awkward. It's weird, because you just feel like, like you and I are having a communication. It's a back and forth. It's a tennis, kind of a tennis match where we're kind of a dance. But when the other person is flat footed, and the music is playing, and there's nothing and I feel like man, I gotta I gotta I gotta keep this, I gotta keep this dance going. When the other end, it's hard. And sometimes I don't know about you, when you meet somebody it gets in an interview scenario. It might be different, but I guess it just a meeting scenario would be very similar, where the wall is up, because they don't know you. So they're not going to show you who they are. And my job as an interviewer is to be able to break through that wall and make the Very comfortable very quickly. If not, the conversation is stale. And the audience picks up on that. And sometimes it takes a minute. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes I've had, I've had interviews that I couldn't break through the wall because it just, you know, I've had some Oscar winners on the show that just were so media trained, that I just couldn't. There wasn't there wasn't a receptive audience on the other side. But is that that fair statement? Dude, have you ever experienced that?

Linda Clemons 50:30
Right? Alex? What is I just was a Joakim, who was the guy that played the Joker? Joaquin Phoenix, okay. He was on I never forget on David Letterman. Oh, God. Remember?

Alex Ferrari 50:45
Letterman had no idea what to do. He was but he was doing it on purpose. And character. Yeah, he was in character. Yeah, he was he was in character. Letterman know it, though. I don't think Letterman knew. And Letterman. I mean, Jesus is legendary interviewer for God's sakes, interviewed 1000s and 1000s of people. But that interview was so awkward to watch, because Letterman would throw something at him. And he would just like, yeah. It's just, it's

Linda Clemons 51:14
Like, oh, and the poor, can you without even looking at the audience? Alex, could you just feel just through the screen? How uncomfortable the audience was for David Letterman. And David Letterman, from where I'm from, where I'm from Indianapolis, Indiana. Right. So but that's exactly true. So here's what happens when we do that. It's primitive, first of all, to now for the initial time. In other words, when you meet someone for the very first time, the brain is trying to figure out is this person, friend or foe? Is it gonna eat me, that's about mine is this friend or foe? That's why we build rapport. That's why you do that with your guests. To make them comfortable. You build rapport, so that that instant connection can take place, because you can't go any further. They're sitting there, and they're closed off in a protected mode. That of course, like you said, that was deliberate, but Letterman didn't know it. Thus, it made him feel awkward in the audience, because the audience was resonating with David. And the same thing that happened with Dr. Phil, when he first was on the Oprah show, he didn't test well at all. He didn't test well at all. Because his no nonsense, that dog ain't going on one type of thing. Well, Oprah's audience, you know, it's, you know, the spiritual, the empowerment this. And so when he's getting up, says, Look, girl, we got to do this. They're thinking, Oh, my gosh, you're talking to our Lady Oh, like that. And he did not test well at all. Because his personality, if you will, did not resonate. When they got when the numbers came out. Oprah had to come back and says, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, you guys, this is what he did for me to help me win that case, you have to be tough. Oh, we love you. Now. We love you now. So it's very critical that you build that instant rapport because it personally could be a trust issue. Okay. Is it their baseline? Or is there something else going on? Is there another story? You know what I mean? It's very important.

Alex Ferrari 53:10
Now, I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?

Linda Clemons 53:17
Oh, my goodness. My definition for me, because we only pass this way once is to live my life. So of giving, sharing, and caring, I believe is so important to do your giving while you're living. That's a good life for me. And my riches come in health. Because you could have all the money in the world. There are people that are chasing wealth, Alex, they're chasing the wealth. And then next thing you know, they spend all their wealth to chase health. And so I want to be prosperous in my health. I want to be prosperous in my spiritual walk, and my spiritual connection. That's important to me. And I also want to be healthy and happy in my relationships with friends and the people that I meet. That's for me is living a good life. I want to stand I think was Erma Bombeck. That once said, that when I stand before my maker, I want to stand empty, because I used everything that you gave me. And that's what I want to do.

Alex Ferrari 54:22
What is your definition of God?

Linda Clemons 54:26
By definition of God is love. Spirit and peace. It gives me a calmness when I have that spiritual connection, because June the fourth 1996 I was a radio personality. And I morning Dr. Just got off the air and I was scheduled for a surgery was an outpatient surgery. Needless to say, I think it was Mother Teresa that said the best way to make God laugh is to me. Yes, I was scheduled to come out I'm just a couple of hours. But something happened that too much anesthesia, I ended up in a coma. And I was in a coma for seven days. Oh, my heart stopped for 60 seconds. My radio listeners were praying for me. And you know, the doctors told them just kind of like kind of prepare for the worst they didn't know. And I just believe, to my bottom chord that is something bigger and greater than me. That said, Not yet. Not yet. My child. Not yet. So I have a I have his direct line.

Alex Ferrari 55:37
I now where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

Linda Clemons 55:40
Oh, yeah, they can follow me on Instagram @LindaClemons, and Clemons is spelled CLEMONS. My website is my and So just love to hear from you. And and if there was something that you got out of our conversation today, let me know. Let me know if there's something fed your mind body or spirit. I appreciate that.

Alex Ferrari 56:05
And do you have any final messages for our audience?

Linda Clemons 56:08
Yes. You know, one of my favorite quotes is from Benjamin Mays. They're very 1,536,000 seconds in a year. You've only got a minute 60 seconds in it. forced upon you. You didn't seek it. You didn't choose it hurt if you lose it accountable if you abuse it. It's only a tiny little minute. But the rest of your future is in it. Spend it wisely.

Alex Ferrari 56:35
Oh, beautiful, Linda It's been a pleasure talking to you and thank you so much for the work that you do, and and trying to help people around the world so I appreciate you my dear.

Linda Clemons 56:45
I love you man.

Alex Ferrari 56:49
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