Shamanic Healing with Your Spirit Guides with Julie Kramer

Julie Kramer 0:00
The only shifts that are going to occur are going to start with us individually. They don't know they're dead. They literally don't know that they're dead, and they can become attached to us. So we're shifting our consciousness into altered states. What I feel are often underlying causes of pain, which are spiritual illnesses. This work has always been evidence based. Shamans were the first medical doctors. They were the first therapists. They were the first priests and priestesses. They were the first mediators. It's actually quite common for people to stay here after they've died and not leave. And these are what we call ghosts.

Alex Ferrari 0:43
I'd like to welcome to the show Julie Kramer, how are you doing Julie?

Julie Kramer 1:00
I'm very well. Thank you, Alex.

Alex Ferrari 1:02
No, thank you so much for being here. It's I'm very excited to talk to you, because I haven't really had many shamans on the show or talking people talking about shamanism. So did you how did you get into shamanism? Was there a life before shamanism and or did you as a child want to be a shaman?

Julie Kramer 1:28
Certainly not the latter. No, I discovered shamanism at the age of 26 and I'm 51 now, and so I've been at it for many moons now.

Alex Ferrari 1:38
So what was your life like before you discovered shamanism. I mean, this is just not a normal path you walk down to become a shaman, unless you're an indigenous person or something like that. So how did you fall into this path?

Julie Kramer 1:51
Yes, that is all correct. So my story is, in fact, not that uncommon, as I've discovered over the course of now working with so many people who have become practitioners of this work and who discovered it at some times quite late in life. In my case, I was fortunate enough to discover it when I was really just becoming an adult. I would describe myself as having been a bit of the late bloomer. And so yes, there was a pre shamanism, but not a very well formed sense of self. By the time I experienced shamanism for the first time, and I was simply at a retreat center at a place called Holly Hawk here in British Columbia, which is where I live now. And I was compelled to attend this one particular workshop I worked at the retreat center, and when I experienced contacting my helping spirits for the first time, using shamanic journeying, which is the premise of my work, it just felt so natural. It felt so at once ordinary and extraordinary. It felt like I was coming home. I immediately connected with helping spirits who felt familiar to me, even though I hadn't had necessarily the experience of knowing her they were up until that time, but they felt as if they had always been there, which of course, they had been, and I felt like I had known them forever. And so there was such an immediate sense of familiarity and ease and comfort upon first practicing shamanic journeying that I was so inspired to continue from that point onwards.

Alex Ferrari 3:29
So what is shamanism exactly? What's your definition of shamanism?

Julie Kramer 3:34
Yes, well, I appreciate you asking me what my definition is, because I think definitions do vary in some instances, quite widely. I think the way that I would describe it is that people who have been raised within shamanic cultures, or who have an affinity for a shamanic perspective, feel that the world is alive with spirit, and so there's a sense of consciousness, intelligence, wisdom, pervading all of existence, and the possibility that we can contact that consciousness, contact that intelligence or wisdom directly, and that it's available and accessible. And so historically, of course, shamanism has been practiced on every continent since the beginning of recorded history. And what that means is that all of our ancestors practiced in some manner. And so that means all of our ancestors either were medicine people, Shaw women, if you will, Shaw men, or were part of communities where there were people like that who were understood and honored and respected for their ability to interact with the spirit world and to contact that intelligence pervading all of existence, on behalf of the community and so in a certain way that still. True in the sense that that's the role I play, and the role that the students that I train play. What we're doing is contacting the spirit world for the benefit of others. Certainly we benefit too, but in order to bring healing, in order to bring wellness, in order to bring harmony to the communities that we're a part of.

Alex Ferrari 5:18
So Julie, can you explain to me what the exact process is for what you do, or connecting to the spirit world or or what shaman is like. What's the process of shamanism, the technical process of it because, you know, I've heard a lot of the things you've said from other modalities, other traditions, and I believe that all of these roads lead to the same place, or just different flavors and different roads that all go to the same place. So what is the technical process of what you do?

Julie Kramer 5:50
Yes, certainly. And so basically, what we do is enter into natural trance states. And so that's done by way of rattling, drumming, singing, dancing, whistling. So we're shifting our consciousness into altered states. So we're shifting our brainwave activity effectively from beta to alpha to theta. And theta is simply an expansive state of consciousness that allows us to perceive that which we may otherwise overlook, or that which is beyond our physical reality, if you will. And what happens is that we have subtle senses that are the correlates to our physical senses, and those begin to open when we're in a trance state. And of course, there are different means for entering into a trance state, so I describe the way that we do that as entering into a natural trance state. Because, although there are certainly people practicing entering into trance states using psychedelics and hallucinogenics and so forth, that's not my particular path, and not what I teach. And it's amazing how easy it is, and that's part of what I find so appealing about this work is that it's accessible. It's available. Anyone can actually shift their consciousness, and in so doing, we then become aware of the presence of helping spirits who are actually surrounding us all the time. We become aware of the Spirit that enlivens all of reality, and we can begin to interact through our subtle senses. And so just as I can hear the sound of your voice through my sense of hearing, there's a subtle sense of hearing. We call it clear audience, or clear hearing, that enables me to hear the sounds of my helping spirits. And so it's the same pathways of perception, if you will. They're just perceiving the invisible.

Alex Ferrari 7:46
So are you hearing it technically, like out in the real world? Are you hearing it in your mind? Because I know there are two different ways to hear spirit.

Julie Kramer 7:56
Oh yes, I would say both, although predominantly I hear in my awareness, I would say, so it's more like what I would describe as telepathic hearing.

Alex Ferrari 8:05
So it's kind of like you hear a voice in your head. But the question is, how do you determine what your voice is versus your own the voice that you're hearing versus the voice in your own mind you your thoughts? It's a problem I always run into when I'm meditating of what am I just talking to myself? Or is this an actual message coming in from the other side?

Julie Kramer 8:31
Yes, and I think being able to draw that distinction is important. Obviously, I think in my case, because I used clairaudience as one example, but in actual fact, that coexists with other experiences that are happening simultaneously. So just as I'm talking with you right now, and you're hearing my voice and I'm hearing yours, and I'm seeing you on screen, sadly, not in person with you, but at the same time, I'm feeling the temperature in the room and I'm aware of my surroundings. So there's a lot of information coming in through various channels of perception, or pathways of perception. Similarly, when you journey, you're sensing and experiencing and perceiving in a number of ways all at once. And so I may hear the voice of a helping spirit and also see them, and they may touch me, and that may provide a certain sensation. And their presence feels a particular way. The quality of their presence, their nearness, has a particular quality, a felt sense for me. So it's all happening at once, and so part of how I distinguish my voice from theirs, is that if it's just me, then it is literally just my voice in my head. But if I'm actually connecting with my helping spirits, I'm having a sensory experience that's complex, and not just through one sensory channel, if you will. But I think Alex. There's also the piece about confirmation or accuracy. So in other words, yes, I'm receiving guidance on my own behalf, but I very often journey on behalf of others, and that means that they can then tell me that resonated with me or that didn't, that fits, or that doesn't they tell me how accurate I am. They tell me how helpful the guidance is. And in that way, this is work that's offered in service to others, whether it's clients or whether it's, in my case, circles of students. And so we get that immediate feedback, because we can tell whether or not the information is accurate, we can tell whether or not it's landing and it's helpful. And so that's a part of how we make that distinction.

Alex Ferrari 10:49
You mentioned that how you get into these states is you're using a sound essentially. So are the drums or the sound that you're using helping you reach a certain frequency, helping you get to that frequency faster, and hence being able to connect with the spirit world by connecting to that frequency?

Julie Kramer 11:08
I think there are two things that are happening simultaneously. I think that when we are exposed to percussion, so as you said, sound, whether it's rattling or drumming, something repetitive at a particular speed, so it has to be quite quick over time that alters the brainwave activity. So exposure to that repetitive sound of rattling or drumming alters the brainwave activity. So that allows us, pardon me, to enter into a trance state, and classically, when shamans described preparing to journey, they would talk about raising their energy or getting heated up. And so in actual fact, the term shaman, which is from the Siberian Tungus tribe. In truth, I've heard a variety of translations for that word, but predominantly the translation I hear is to heat up or to raise up or to lift up. So something of that nature, where, yes, we're trying to raise our frequency so that we can come into resonance with the frequency of the helping spirits. And I think there's also an element too, because the shamanic journey entails traveling into other spec spectrums of reality. So entering into other dimensions of reality. We're not having an out of body experience. There's always a way in which some of our awareness remains in our body, but we are sending our awareness into the other realms, collaborating with helping spirits. They're accompanying us and taking us places and showing us things that are relevant and important, but we have to raise our energy in order to sort of propel ourselves into the other realms. And so there's that element as well.

Alex Ferrari 12:58
So to my understanding that the spirit world is at a certain frequency and that we're down here in the mud, if you will, that and they can't they can only go so far, so we kind of have to meet them in the middle somewhere where we try to match their frequency a bit closer. So we're kind of coming up through the mud until we could, like, poke our hand out to the other side and be able to have a connection with it, is that, does that make sense?

Julie Kramer 13:27
Yes, although I think that process Alex, can differ from one person to another, some people can raise their frequency very, very quickly, almost imperceptibly. And for others, it's more of a process, and that can also vary from day to day. Some days it's harder than others. I mean, even in my case, having practiced since 2000 there are some days when I still struggle, if I'm not feeling well or if I'm tired. And so it's not necessarily formulaic, but yes, in principle, I would agree.

Alex Ferrari 13:57
So when you go into these realms, what have you encountered? What have you seen, and have they always been positive? Or have you run into negative experiences as well on the other side?

Julie Kramer 14:08
Excellent questions. So I think what I'll say is that, in my experience, everyone has a power place, and a power place is a place in non ordinary reality, or in the invisible realms that is a source of potency, a source of support, that is a refuge for each of us, designed specifically to cater to our needs. And so one of the places I visit often is my power place, and this is a place my helping spirits took me to that I discovered by way of them showing me where it is and what it is, and it's a place where resources are available to me that help me hone my gifts, that help me become replenished and restored, and that also helped me. Gain insight into the situations that I'm journeying about. And so my power place has a lot of complexity, which is quite common. And so some of the landscape is sort of this beautiful river scape, and it's a forested area that reaches this beautiful river. And so sometimes I'll just spend time with my helping spirits dangling our feet into the river, and then nearby there's a crystalline cave. And the crystalline cave is a place where a lot of healing takes place, and there's sound healing that takes place in the crystalline cave. And so the helping spirits administer that sound healing for me in order to tend to my well being. And that's a place where I sometimes bring clients as well when I'm reading them on guided journeys, in order for them to receive that healing as well. And part of the work that I do is based on divination. So in broad terms, we could say we journey with a particular intention. So part of the practice is developing an intention and then asking the helping spirits to meet that intention. So everything that happens in the journey is in response to what that intention is. And so for me, when I think about journeying, I think about guidance, kind of in one bucket and then healing in another bucket. And so often I journey with the intention of receiving guidance from helping spirits for myself or others. And so there's a dedicated space where divination happens. And one of my helping spirits actually, it's very interesting, actually looks into a crystal ball. And sometimes I wonder if she's doing that for my benefit, just for the humorous element, because it is quite an interesting stereotype in a certain kind of way, but classically, is also a form of divination, a form of scrying. And so there's a dedicated space where that happens. So it's very purposeful and intentional. We move through the different parts of my power place in order to address specific needs, in order for certain intentions to be fulfilled. So I would say that's a place of beauty. It's a refuge, it's a sanctuary, it's a place of connection. It's where all of my helping spirits gather, of which I have a great many now, because I partner with different helping spirits for different purposes, and much as with the practice in general, it's very purposeful, so things don't happen randomly or by accident. It's very intentional and deliberate. And so that's one example. I mean, goodness, there are endless examples. Certainly the classical teaching is that there are endless realms, and so there are endless possibilities in terms of what we can experience, and certainly an attention for journey and can be just to explore in order to experience different types of realms and the beings that inhabit different realms.

Alex Ferrari 17:51
Yeah. And the second part of that, that question is, have you they've all been positive, or have you ever had a negative trip? If you will.

Julie Kramer 18:01
Well, in our work, we're very intentionally partnering with benevolent helping spirits. So for me, I would take that even a step further to say I want to partner with beings of the highest consciousness that I'm capable of relating to. And so yes, I want to raise my frequency as high as possible to interact with beings who have the greatest insights, the greatest wisdom, the greatest clarity and the greatest maturity. And so I would say, helping spirits, much like humans, perhaps, are not all equal in that regard. We don't all have the same level of consciousness, we don't all have the same level of maturity. So I'm deliberately seeking to partner with helping spirits that I feel are very sophisticated and that I feel I can learn and benefit from. These are my teachers. I've had the benefit of working with living teachers also, and helping spirits are my teachers, and so I want to work with teachers that have a very great deal to teach. So we're partnering with benevolent helping spirits in this work, and at the same time, yes, of course, there are stories of people having confusing or frightening interactions. This warrants a deeper explanation, so let's try to unpack this together a little bit. Sure. So in my experience, and in my opinion, at the time of death, the soul leaves the human physical body and leaves this realm, leaves the human realm in an ideal world that happens well and naturally and without impediments. However, it's actually quite common for people to stay here after they've died and not leave. And these are what we call ghosts or poltergeists. I don't personally use those terms because they do often have. A pejorative or negative cast, and yet I understand that experiences that are frightening are real and do happen. And I feel that I hold it differently in a different light. I have a lot of compassion for beings like that who are lost or stuck, and sometimes quite honestly, acting out, sometimes simply out of fearfulness. People don't cross over at the time of death for a variety of reasons that we can actually all relate to very easily, because of our attachments, because of our fears. People don't cross over at the time of death because they're afraid of being punished for not having, perhaps done good deeds, for having possibly harmed people, for having created suffering. And so people are afraid of punishment. They're attached to their belongings, to their loved ones, to their status. Oftentimes, when someone has had a violent or unexpected death, like a car crash, for example, where they perhaps died instantly, head on collision, a tragic death of that nature. They don't know they're dead. They literally don't know that they're dead. And they can become attached to us, to living people, and can cause symptoms and habitual patterns and behaviors that are quite problematic. So there's what happens when you know you go to stay at a hotel, perhaps a historic hotel somewhere, there's a ghost in your room. There's sort of that variety of situation who might be creating phenomenon in order to get your attention, or because they're playful, or because they're a child who died, and they're just being a child. But then there's sort of another category, which is when someone's passed away but not crossed over, and they've become attached to a person, and let's say that person who died was addicted to drugs, they can influence the living person that they become attached to. They'll be drawn to a user, because that's what's known to them and familiar to them, and they get a little bit of a high from that person using and that can then exacerbate, perhaps a pre existing stage of addiction that could worsen significantly. And so we see this through generations of families, when there is generational trauma, addiction, abuse, etc. So I realize I'm bringing up a very complex and big topic, and I think it's an important awareness to have that, yes, there are beings who are present here with us, a great many, in my opinion, and I hold them with compassion, because I feel they need our help, even if they're behaving in ways that are unideal and that are even frightening or harmful. For me, they all have the light of source in their hearts, even if they've become lost or confused, just like a living person who's struggling with addiction deserves support and help in order to heal.

Alex Ferrari 23:14
So this is a question I get asked all the time, especially when people are investigating psychic phenomenon, shamanism, channeling all that kind of stuff. How can someone protect themselves from negative entities or negative experiences when they're going down these journeys?

Julie Kramer 23:35
Yeah, certainly that's an excellent question, Alex, and I appreciate your consideration for our viewers who may be inspired to try, because I think it's important to have some parameters in place and some support in place. So first and foremost, although I understand the distinction that you're making, which is often true by the same time, sometimes sweet, innocent, well intentioned Auntie Lucy actually stays here too because she can't bear to leave you because she loves you so much. And in fact, that's a very common phenomenon among parents who tragically die young, whether suddenly or through a disease process. So when there's the ability or the opportunity to prepare people with young children. It's very common for them to not cross over successfully, because they can't leave their children. And so those who stay are not necessarily only of the variety who might be acting out or who might be mischievous, but can rather have extremely benevolent intentions, and yet it's not serving their spiritual unfolding to stay here, stuck in the human realm, and it's not serving ours either, because they're not helping spirits their departed souls. And that's an important distinction, and part of it is. So learning this practice, of course, in my view, and this may sound biased because, of course, I teach introductory workshops, but ideally, you seek out a teacher, and you engage in a process that enables you to build a practice that you can then carry on engaging in for the rest of your life. I don't feel that you need a teacher forever. And yet, I think it's helpful at the start, to have a container within which to practice and also to practice in community. I learned at Holly Hawk, as I mentioned, which is where I now teach. I lead my introductory workshop as typically a three day non residential retreat or an in person residential retreat, sometimes a day longer. But I love to create safe, stable containers within which we can all dive in together, and we can ask questions, and we can have experiences, and we can unpack our experiences, but all of the work is predicated upon partnering with benevolent helping spirits. That's the intention that we're holding. Those are the helping spirits that we want to form alliances with, and oftentimes we're renewing alliances that have existed within our families and other lineages that we've been a part of, and so many of us have helping spirits who are part of different cultural paradigms that we're not a part of in this lifetime, but that we were a part of another lifetimes. So often, when we learn the practice of journeying, we meet helping spirits that we've actually known and collaborated with and worked with in other lifetimes, and that's very much in response to the intention. I only want to partner with benevolent helping spirits who are compassionate and who are dedicated to our evolution and our well being.

Alex Ferrari 26:57
How are these helping spirits differ? Or are they the same as spirit guides. And also, have you ever run into Ascended Masters, like Jesus, Buddha, Yogananda, these kind of beings as well?

Julie Kramer 27:09
Yes, I would say Alex, all of the above. So first of all, for me, the terms helping Spirits and spirit guides are interchangeable. And I would also say to sort of riff further on that spirit, helpers, wisdom, beings, guardian angels, to me, those are all interchangeable terms, describing benevolent spirits again, who are dedicated to our well being, who want to help us heal, who want To help us evolve, who want to help us grow and be well as humans, recognizing we're of course, in my view, spirits inhabiting these human forms, at least this time around. They see our perfection. They see us as spiritual beings. They don't see us as humans are not limited to the human experience anyway. So I would say all of those terms for me are interchangeable. And when I talk about meeting a helping spirit that could be any and all of the above, it could be a benevolent ancestor, or, I would say a well ancestor. It could be a god or goddess from any tradition. I was saying earlier that I have helping spirits from traditions that I'm not a part of, like I can't trace my biological lineage to those cultural contexts, although I feel that my soul's lineage is tied to those cultural contexts, because I feel that I've had lifetimes in those places. And so there are Gods and Goddesses from different lineages, religious figures, just as you said, Jesus, for example, with whom I work closely, although I wasn't raised Christian or in any religious context at all, certainly the Buddha prophets, saints and yes, certainly historical figures. I once led an introductory workshop in Colorado over Presidents Day long weekend, probably 70% of the participants had deceased presidents as helping spirits who came to share their wisdom. Now mind you, they're no longer that person, you know, that's just, I would say, a facet of the diamond. And so if you have Abraham Lincoln as a helping spirit, yes, that being is drawing from the experience of having been incorporated or having lived as Abraham Lincoln, but that's not the totality of who and what he is. I often say the helping spirits put on those costumes so that we can more easily recognize them. But a wonderful journey to do is to ask the helping spirits to drop their forms so that we can experience them as simply pure light, and then we can also drop our own forms.

Alex Ferrari 29:59
Julie there's a lot of people watching who are going through a lot of pain and a lot of feeling lost in their lives. How can going on a shamanic journey help them overcome these obstacles in their life?

Julie Kramer 30:15
Yes, certainly, so. Learning how to journey enables us to contact helping spirits who love us unconditionally, who are devoted to our well being, who don't judge us, who don't reject us, who love us in ways that in many ways, are beyond our imagining, and for most of us, beyond our living human experience. Because I think so many of us have felt judged or criticized, or have felt that we haven't measured up in some way, or have felt that our love was conditional how we were loved by parents or caregivers was conditional. The helping spirits beam love to us in a way that, in and of itself, is fundamentally healing. In my experience, a lot of attachment wounds can become healed through relationships with the spirit world, and for many people, of course, especially post pandemic, there's a chronic I feel pervasive sense of isolation that people still feel, even though there has been, to some extent, a return to normalcy, the divisiveness that you referenced A moment ago, feeling a sense of belonging, which can start with belonging to a gaggle of helping spirits, but then that leads to feeling a sense of interconnectedness. We're not separate. We're not separate from spirit. We're not separate from our spiritual selves. We're not separate from the natural world. We're not separate from source, or whatever you want to call it. And so there's a bridge back I feel, to wellness, to wholeness, to oneness, which I feel is our natural state that the helping spirits do offer. And part of that is also community, experiencing a sense of community, and having spiritual discoveries and having relationships with the unseen world, beginning to talk about those things openly. I mean, I've had students from law, from architecture, from medicine, from real estate, from from film, from every industry, and it's remarkable how many people, people who seem very buttoned up and that you wouldn't think of as being spiritual at all, people have experiences of the Divine all the time. We're wired for it, and I feel it hurts us. It harms us to deny those experiences, to pathologize those experiences, to reject those experiences, to deny ourselves the opportunity to be in relationship with spirit. We're hardwired for that. And so at the level of just learning how to journey, there's so much that can be regained in terms of a sense of belonging and connection and wellness, when you do that with other people, and then when you form relationships with helping spirits. And then, of course, the focus of my work is I train people to become shamanic healers, or spiritual healers, and that's a sort of continuation, if you will, from first learning how to journey, then partnering with helping spirits in order to provide healing for others, not that gets into more complex territory, where we're talking about the fact that there can be spiritual illness, there can be imbalances or disharmony on a spiritual level that need to be addressed spiritually that don't get resolved through other means. And so part of the pain that people are in has to do with spiritual illnesses being present and not being diagnosed and treated they're not being remedied. So we're trying to throw other modalities at spiritual healing, which aren't going to effectively identify, diagnose, treat and remedy spiritual illness. So my passion is to train people to become excellent practitioners, so they can go out into their communities and help people who are in pain and specifically address what I feel are often underlying causes of pain, which are spiritual illnesses.

Alex Ferrari 34:40
So I have to ask you, I mean, you we're talking about things here that are so kind of Woo, if you will, these, these, these are kind of radical and kind of crazy ideas, if you will, going down this road and but you've been able to present this with such professionalism and. And you're so articulate when you do it, I have to believe that during your journey doing this work, that you've had opposition, so opposition to people with your ideas and and these traditions and things like that that breaks from the model that they came from. How what do you say to people who are watching, who says that this is just absolutely insane, this is nuts. I mean, this just doesn't make any sense. What would you say to them?

Julie Kramer 35:30
I appreciate you asking that question, and thank you for those kind reflections. Well, perhaps this goes to the question you asked originally about sort of who I was before I discovered shamanism, and I said I hadn't become a very well formed person yet. And perhaps a different way of talking about that would be to say that I was going in a direction that was not consistent with my calling, and that was very much because of, I would say, the expectations that my family held for me or of me, which I think many of us experience which were well intentioned. It's not in any way meant to be a criticism of my family. They were simply operating within the realm that they were familiar with. And so I went to what Canada considers to be an Ivy League university, Queen's University. I worked in conventional corporate jobs. I left a job at the Four Seasons in order to move to Hollyhock and to work there and explore spirituality, which was not a very popular choice in terms of my family members. Had my family been left to their devices, I would be selling life insurance. That was literally the career that my family envisioned for me, or I'd have 10 children. Yes, right, however, Not to disparage in any way those things, only to say that's not the best use of my time, that's not in accord with my soul's calling. Unfortunately, I had the wherewithal to say, I don't think this is who I'm supposed to be. I'm going to go in a different direction, and I had a great deal of support in that, largely from the spirit world. Now, having said that, what I experienced as a young person, the academic environment that I was a part of, the corporate environments that I was a part of, helped me understand this is a profession like any other, and I want to hone my craft, just like if I had become a professional tennis player, or just like if I had become a diplomat, which was the only other idea that I had for myself That was interesting to me, because I was very interested in politics, and I'd lived abroad as a teenager, and in a way, I am a diplomat now. I'm a spiritual diplomat. But those, those same imprints of you know how formative it is to go to a certain school and work in certain environments has shaped me as a practitioner, because to me, this is a credible profession, and I'm simply honing my craft just like anybody is. It's a it's an art and a skill, and I'm very dedicated to excellence, and I love excellence in every field, in your field, you are excelling in your field. And one thing that I feel so honored to be in conversation with you because of is how you've distinguished yourself in your field and how much respect you've earned in your field. You embody excellence in a field that is very broad and where there are literally millions of people, you've distinguished yourself among millions. It's an incredible accomplishment. I thrive in environments where excellence is aspired to. Why not in this work, and so I am very devoted to shamanism, regaining what I feel is its natural place alongside Western medicine, Eastern medicine, psychotherapy, psychiatry, body work, other healing modalities, energy medicine. I just don't feel that we can dismiss the existence of other realities, just by way of maybe a few 100 years of deciding, or maybe a little bit longer than that, but a short time relative to human history of deciding that that's not rational, or that it's not proven or provable, that's denying and dismissing 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of years of human experience, I trust that human experience, and I feel myself carrying that forward. I feel the lineages in me that are still alive I didn't have loved ones who were shamanic healers or even recent ancestors who did. But I know I had distant ones who were and I know I had family members with psychic gifts. They didn't cultivate them, but I know they kept them alive through that lineage for me and hopefully for my descendants. And so it's thrilling for me to be able to uplift this profession, and I love talking to people across disciplines about it, because it applies everywhere. There's nowhere that working with the helping spirits doesn't have a place if someone's interested. And for the skeptics, I would say, find a trusted, skilled, experienced, professional practitioner and have a session and see this work has always been evidence based. Shamans were the first medical doctors. They were the first therapists. They were the first priests and priestesses. They were the first mediators. They were the first midwives. They were the first death doulas. They did everything, and in some cultures, they still do. And they had to get results.

Alex Ferrari 41:06
I have to ask when you first walked in to your parents house and said, Hey, Mom and Dad, I know I have a really good job and all, but I'm gonna go off and be a shaman. How did they react? Because, I mean, that's up there with running away with the circus, I'm going to be a psychic medium now. I'm going to channel other beings like it's definitely not a path that is generally well accepted. So what did they say? And how did you deal with it?

Julie Kramer 41:33
Well, it's interesting to talk about that now, because my my parents, sadly, are deceased and in a certain way. Thank you. The three parents. I was also raised by a very beloved stepmother from an early age, so she was as much a parent as my biological parents were. And so in a certain way, I can talk about this more freely because they're gone, but what's also true is that I can also talk about how the conversations went down when they were living, but how the conversations have unfolded since they've passed, we've had quite different conversations since they've passed, so that's been quite interesting to experience that contrast. I'll use my mom as an example. I would say there was a lot of mockery. There was a lot of not I mean, yes, a lot of not taking it seriously, a lot of not believing in it. Open mockery, open teasing. In fact, recently, I had a conversation with my my mother's former financial advisor who was interested in a referral because she wants to see a shaman. And she said, Well, you know, your mom and I used to make fun of you all the time, but I've come to see that I actually need a shaman. And of course, I'm only going to ask you because I trust you. And so it's very interesting, over time, how things can come full circle like that. That was a very momentous conversation, but I would say, you know, I was also in my 20s, and so I think my parents chalked it up to exploration, you know, adventure. They didn't take it seriously, and then in the fullness of time, they did. And my father, who seemed more conventional than my mother in many ways, bless his heart, he died very suddenly and died in a way that wouldn't typically kill somebody in the modern world, because normally there are medical interventions to prevent the sort of death that he had, but just a tragic perfect storm that resulted in his very sudden death. But bless his heart, before he died, about a year before he died, he came to one of my workshops, and by then he knew I'd been working at it a long time. He saw how hard I was working. He saw that I was making progress. He saw that I had students and clients, I had a successful practice, and then I had a successful teaching platform, and he began to take it seriously. He started having sessions with one of my teachers. He came to my workshop, and he said, I want to know you, and I want to know who you've become, and I want to share this with you, and it was such a blessing, because I'm so grateful to him that he took the time. He flew down to Colorado, where I was living at the time, and he attended a workshop, and he took an interest, but it took time, and yet, like many of my students, like many of my clients, I simply happen to be the one within my family system saying, I think there are others in the family who have these gifts. I don't think I'm the only one, but I am going to focus on cultivating these gifts and developing these skills. And it's amazing how that's given everyone else permission. Because now it's a little bit less weird and a little bit less Woo, and that's part of what I love is well, if that makes it a little bit more ordinary for the next generation, for my descendants, I don't have my own children, but for my nephews, or for their friends, if it makes it a little bit less woo for them that they can have those conversations and maybe turn towards those gifts in themselves. I'm happy to take a little flack in order to give that to my clients and my students and my family members.

Alex Ferrari 45:33
I can only imagine that Christmas was very interesting. I mean, I must imagine that year one, year two, Christmas time must have been insane. You were taking shrapnel constantly during those interactions regarding shamanistic healing. How do you think that affects the collective because I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the world seems a little bit upside down. Now. Things are you know, industries are falling and crumbling, and institutions aren't going there seems to be a lot of upheaval around the world right now. So I imagine you felt that. So how do you believe that shaman is the healing can help the collective heal through this? And also, where do you think this is all going? Where do you think we're going to be in five or 10 or 20 years as a species, as a society,

Julie Kramer 46:22
Yes, goodness, well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it? Well, I'm noticing two things at once, which I find fascinating. So when I started out, it was again 2000 and I had never heard the words shaman, shamanic, shamanism. I had heard of spirit guides. And I had talked with some family members about helping spirits or spirit guides on occasion. So there was that thread too in my family. And at the same time, I've seen, over the course of these many years, 25 years now, that those words shamanism, shamanic, Shaman have become far more widely adopted, although they're not always understood consistently or in the same ways. And so I was appreciative of your early question about how I understand shamanism and how I would define it. What I'm noticing is that because I've now been teaching. So I was introduced to shamanism 2000 but I started teaching very early on with the blessing of my teacher, Sandra Ingerman, in 2003 so I've also been teaching for a long time, and I've noticed it once a way in which my Students are continually more evolved, more open, more curious, more able to apprehend complex understandings, more capable of evolutionary leaps. I'm barely keeping up with them. I mean, they're incredible, and I've noticed a shift in that respect, where people are more open, increasingly so. And yet, when I look around at the culture, if you will, at the mainstream, like you said, I would say the opposite seems to be true. And that's a very interesting paradox to hold at the same time. And so there's once a way in which I feel that the only shifts that are going to occur are going to start with us individually. So if, if I'm on purpose and I'm inspiring others to be, and they are on purpose and they're inspiring others to be, to me, that's what builds a movement of any kind. I would say, on purpose, spiritually, that's the movement I'm invested in creating or contributing to. But obviously there are movements of different kinds. But for me, it always starts with the individual, and then the ripples outwards from there. So there's once a way in which I feel the momentum of that, but on a very modest scale. I mean, I'm working on a very modest scale, and then I look out into the world and I think, oh, out there, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. And that's my feeling. I think it's going to I think things are going to deteriorate dramatically to a far greater extent than we've known or can imagine in North America, and I would say that is going to precipitate an awakening. And so I know spiritual teachers differ in their views. I believe there are some, well, I've heard some talking about how spiritual awakening is only available to the special few. There are others who feel that awakening is available to everyone. Obviously, we're in that camp, and that's what I'm dedicating my life to. I'm dedicating my life to spiritual awakening through this means or by way of this path. As you said, All paths are valid and important. And we have to find what resonates for us and as things worsen, I think that creates more openness to other possibilities, because what we're doing isn't working. So where can we find wisdom? Where can we find guidance? Where can we find a way forward that's different from what we're doing, because what we're doing is creating a mess, and so interestingly, that suffering may precipitate, I feel will precipitate openings to the spirit world that will ultimately be more widespread. So that's the overall arc that I'm hoping will be the case. That's what I feel.

Alex Ferrari 50:43
It sounds that what you're saying is that what happens with the individual mirrors what's happening within society, just like us, when we are not when we get nudges from the universe, when we're not on the right path, the correct path, we get nudges, tap on the shoulder, whispers, but then it starts getting a shove, a push, until finally, when we're so stubborn that we haven't listened, a sledgehammer comes in and forces us to reevaluate where we are and move in a certain direction. And if we do not move in the direction that we're told to, move into, the sledgehammer gets bigger and bigger and bigger to the point where you can't not address it. And I think that's what's also happening in society we're in the world right now is that humanity is not listening to the nudges and the whispers and the taps on the shoulder, and we're starting to get sledge hammers and just getting pounded left and right all around the world in many different ways. What are your thoughts?

Julie Kramer 51:39
Yes, I definitely agree with that analogy. And so what do we do? Because I think what happens when we look at the collective, if you will, and feel that we're off track, is that there can be such a sense of helplessness and hopelessness and and rage and fury, you know, because we're not necessarily influencing policy or decisions that are causing harm to the environment and to people and to people who are facing deportation and vulnerable communities and so forth. And so it can be so frustrating, and there can be such a profound sense of helplessness. And I would say, then start with yourself, so let's not be the pot calling the kettle black. Are you living on purpose? Are you in alignment with your soul's purpose? Are you living in a way that's meaningful, and what are the risks that you face if you choose to do that? So although we can laugh about what I faced within my family. Yes, there was mockery, and yes there was, I would say, you know, light hazing and and a certain degree of rejection. But it what? But it wasn't. It wasn't exile. There was room. I had wiggle room, and I also then met my partner, who, as you may know, is the founder of sounds true, and has worked with spiritual teachers for 40 years. And she knew who I was, and she knew I was a little baby shoot of a spiritual practitioner, but she knew what I could become, and I chose a life with a woman, even though I thought I was straight. And I chose an unconventional life, a partner also committed to their spiritual unfolding, a life choice that from the very beginning, because my helping spirit said, if this, if this is what you want, if your spiritual unfolding is what you want, this is the only partner for you, and it's going to be an unconventional life, and you won't have children, and that's the sacrifice you have to make. Because for me, I couldn't do both, and we won't get into all of the reasons why, but that was just true for me, not that it's true for anyone else, but it was true for me, but we have to confront what are those risks? I actually feel I had it pretty easy in a certain way, in terms of my family of origin, ultimately being supportive of my choice in my path, and of my choice in my partner, I have clients and students who face bigger obstacles than I did, and we all have to confront whatever those risks are, whatever it is precluding us from claiming the truth of who we are. Because I feel that when we don't, or if we don't, I do feel that can cause terrible unhappiness and unwellness. And so although we can stand on the sidelines looking at all of the ways in which society is a mass, I feel the only place to start is with ourselves. So if we can become an example for the people in our lives. Of living on purpose again. How does that ripple out and then ripple out more and more broadly? So I always come back to the individual, and the individual having to, if you will, sing their song. No one else can sing that song for you. Only you can, and that's part of my passion, is to help people uncover the gifts that they were given from Grace and that they're here to cultivate. That's what the world needs from each of us, is to bring forward the gifts we were given from grace. I think it's far more fundamental than that. Unfortunately. I think first we need to determine how are we going to feed everybody on this planet, and how are we going to keep everybody on this planet safe, and how are we going to end war, and how are we going to end divisiveness and tribalism? How are we going to actually learn how to cooperate and to find solutions that reflect our shared interests, instead of this combative approach to policy and politics that we see more and more widely. So unfortunately, I feel like we still haven't resolved how to care for our basic needs as a species. How do we care for our home, this planet? How do we revere this beautiful planet instead of damaging it and exploiting it. So we have a lot of work to do. And yet, what's also true is that I know I'm not wired to be the one doing those things. I'm not well suited. Like don't, don't. In actual fact, even though, as a younger person, I thought maybe I'll be a diplomat, please don't put me in a room of policy makers, because that's not my gift. So I think it's a both and in the sense that for the people who are called to contribute in those ways, please do and let me teach you how to journey so that you can ask the helping spirits to guide you in your work and come from a place of wisdom and integrity. And then there are people like us whose calling does have to do with spiritual unfolding and awakening. And so let's stay in our lane and help as many people as we can with this way forward. For for those for whom it's relevant, it's feasible and it's appropriate, because some people need to stay focused on their basic needs right now, and that's appropriate, necessary and understandable. I wish that wasn't true for as many people as it is on this planet right now, but it still is.

Alex Ferrari 57:44
Now Julie, I'm going to ask you a few questions. Ask all of my guests, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Julie Kramer 57:50
Dogs, nature, my wife, my helping spirits and people around me who want to learn and grow.

Alex Ferrari 58:02
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Julie, what advice would you give her?

Julie Kramer 58:06
Well, we were talking about adult Julie, and little Julie had a difficult road in certain ways, and what I would say to her is that the experiences that she was beginning to have were real and valid, and that she didn't need to be afraid and that she didn't need to feel alone, and that the spirits that she began to sense around her as a child were there to help her and protect her.

Alex Ferrari 58:38
How do you define Source or God?

Julie Kramer 58:40
Everything, the brilliance and radiance of everything.

Alex Ferrari 58:47
What is love?

Julie Kramer 58:47
Well, love is right here between us. I feel the warmth of your heart. We do this practice in my work, the heart like practice. And I was doing the heart like practice before joining you, of course, not knowing you and what it would feel like to be with you. And I feel the the strength of your heart light I feel. I feel your heart light reaching towards mine, and I feel your heart light reaching towards your listeners, and I feel you wanting to offer them hope and a pathway forward and relief and resources and inspiration, and so it's right here.

Alex Ferrari 59:30
And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Julie Kramer 59:33
Oh, to graduate from human school, to use our time here, in my opinion, to evolve and grow. And that's what I feel the human laboratory is about evolution and growth, ultimately awakening

Alex Ferrari 59:50
Now, where can people find you and the amazing work that you're doing in the world?

Julie Kramer 59:54
Oh, thank you. My website Julie M, as in Marie, a pesky middle initial kramer.com.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:02
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Julie Kramer 1:00:04
Well, mostly, I'm so grateful to have had the chance to have this conversation with you, Alex, and in so doing with you and through you to dialog with so many of your viewers and listeners. And what I would say is, if this has sparked any inspiration in you, then please reach out, and let's see if we can find a way forward to enable you to contact your own helping spirits directly. That's my joy and passion, to help people make that first contact or rekindle that first contact, and then carry on from there.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:38
Julie, I want to thank you so much for this conversation. It's been such a pleasure and honor speaking today, and I appreciate the work that you're doing and everything you're doing to help awaken this planet. So thank you so much.

Julie Kramer 1:00:49
Thank you, Alex, for everything you do.