Scientist REVEALS Quantum Reality is REAL; We Live in The MATRIX? with Howard Eisenberg

On today’s episode, we welcome the esteemed Howard Eisenberg, an extraordinary thinker whose life’s work bridges the realms of science, psychology, and spirituality. His insights are a beacon for those seeking deeper understanding in an increasingly chaotic world. Howard’s journey is not just one of intellectual pursuit but a profound exploration of the human spirit.

Howard Eisenberg began his journey into the mysteries of the mind at a young age, driven by an insatiable curiosity. From experimenting with altering his consciousness on a merry-go-round to engaging with the speculative wonders of science fiction, Howard’s early experiences laid the groundwork for his later explorations into the intersections of imagination and reality. “Imagination is the source of everything,” he declares, emphasizing how it shapes not only our perceptions but our very existence.

His academic journey, however, was not without challenges. Entering the conservative halls of McGill University’s psychology department, Howard faced significant resistance. The head of the department, a renowned skeptic of parapsychology, initially deemed Howard’s research as theoretically impossible. Undeterred, Howard persisted, eventually proving through rigorous experiments the validity of telepathy and other psychic phenomena. This remarkable feat marked a pivotal moment in his career, showcasing the power of perseverance and open-minded inquiry.

In our discussion, Howard delves into the concept of reality, likening it to a grand dream or divine play. He challenges the materialistic view that consciousness arises solely from the brain, suggesting instead that consciousness is fundamental, shaping and dreaming up the material world. This perspective aligns with ancient spiritual teachings and modern quantum physics, which increasingly acknowledge the primacy of consciousness.


  1. Imagination as a Creative Force: Howard emphasizes the profound role of imagination in shaping reality. Our thoughts and intentions have the power to manifest tangible outcomes, highlighting the interconnectedness of mind and matter.
  2. The Nature of Consciousness: Consciousness is not a byproduct of physical processes but the very foundation of reality. This shift in perspective invites a deeper understanding of our place in the universe and our potential to influence it.
  3. Interconnectedness and Unity: Drawing on various spiritual traditions, Howard underscores the idea that all beings and phenomena are interconnected. This recognition of unity fosters a sense of responsibility and compassion, crucial for addressing the existential challenges we face.

Howard’s work is a clarion call to awaken to our deeper potentials. He shares that the only way out of our current global crises is to turn inward, reconnecting with our inner wisdom and imagination. As he puts it, “The only way out of this mess is in.” This inward journey is not an escape but a pathway to rediscovering our intrinsic connection to the universe and each other.

In conclusion, Howard’s insights provide a roadmap for navigating the complexities of modern life. By embracing our inner capacities and recognizing our interconnectedness, we can foster a more harmonious and enlightened world. His message is both a challenge and an invitation to explore the depths of our being and to create a reality grounded in love, awareness, and imagination.

Please enjoy my conversation with Howard Eisenberg.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 254

Howard Eisenberg 0:00
You know, I say in a summary way, in my book, The only way out of this mess is in and it goes back to him at a deeper level. You know, we're all connected or even if you want to go even before we're all at that level of total connection with each other and everything, we get into intuition. And we also get into the richness of imagination, and imagination as a source of everything.

Alex Ferrari 0:23
I'd like to welcome to show Howard Eisenberg. How you doing Howard?

Howard Eisenberg 0:36
I'm good Alex good to be with you. Thank you!

Alex Ferrari 0:38
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you sir. Because I, your book, decoding reality to dream it or do it but decoding reality 2.0 it this is this is must read kind of material for people, especially if they're listening to this conversation. Where I feel that we're gonna go deep down some rabbit holes in this conversation, so everybody prepared to have your minds blown, no pressure. But so my first question to you is, can you talk about the abilities that you started to see in yourself at a young age.

Howard Eisenberg 1:17
I remember mostly the sense of curiosity, of everything, but one of the ways was also experientially, so I was interested as a kid, and experiencing, in a sense, alterations to my consciousness, like, for example, on a merry go round, you know, hanging over it with my head, you know, towards the ground, and fairly lying on the floor in my house, and imagine would be likewise, walking on the ceiling instead of the floor. So it's like playing these kind of, you know, mental games. Nothing spectacular about they just may be unusual for a child to do and maybe still have the memory of it. But that then, you know, morphed as I got a little older into my adolescence into reading science fiction, I was very interested again, in the speculative aspect of, of science, and how I was seeing, you know, within sometimes years of these books coming out, which were purely fictional, manifesting and reality like, you know, the whole idea of space travel and space program, weirdly enough, even the design of the spacesuits and some of the graphics of the early science fiction movies, and and, you know, books. Wow. I mean, it's like the anticipated, you know, to a communicators and all that stuff. But back to your question more directly, in terms of starting to experience things that are definitely way beyond the ordinary. As I became more curious, partly as a science fiction, about the relationship between imagination and reality, and in science fiction, you know, they had things like, as you may know, teleportation and time travel and things of that nature. I got curious, this is also pre-computer years, Zoeller, 50 years ago. I'm 76. Now, I got curious about trying to find some serious books on this stuff. And I remember going to some of the bigger at that time, paperback bookstores, and trying to find something with somewhat serious about looking at the scientifically. And I found that there was actually a form of science, which wasn't well known, called Paris ecology, which studies things that are beyond sort of speak besides psychology as it's normally thought of. And I found out there were some serious researchers, one of which was JB Rhine down in North Carolina. And I went down actually met him. And so I really started, you know, getting deeper into this area. So I was learning more intellectually, from people like him and literature, that these things really could exist, that is really possible. If you could do things with your mind that can be explained by or an understanding of physical reality. In terms of personal experimentation, I would think I was maybe in my mid teens, when I decided to start experimenting, and sometimes may freak you out. I was kid, I didn't know what I was doing right. And today, it's all supposed to be impossible. So example, I sit in the back of a bus or streetcar. And I envision the focus on someone at the very front of the bus or streetcar. I wouldn't say anything. And again, I'm talking about streetcars and and like some distance and with the intention that they should be aware I'm looking at them so much so that they'll like you know, jostle their position, nice way to unsettle, and then turn around and look specifically right back at me at the back of the bus not making any sound and not wearing anything unusual with your child visual attention. And it worked a number of times, and then I tried to make it more challenging here I am young scientist. So I would choose somebody who's let's say reading a book, you know, so their attention is taken by something that matter. Then somebody who is perhaps sitting in in conversation with someone didn't matter. And then I tried showing other people that I could do this, like in a large, you know, area where again, I couldn't be heard or have to be seen, I could share with someone beside me as a witness, watch, you know what I'm going to do. Another example was when I became a camp counselor in my late teens, and counselors found out about my sort of exotic interest in things personal ecological, you know, bumping the midnight, and the side to play a trick on me. So the counselors had a meeting room that we would use in our off hours, and some of the appointed to just keep an eye on the cabins while we were meeting as a group. Before we came together as a group on one particular occasion, amongst themselves, they had decided to play a trick on me. They were going to start with what seemed like an innocent conversation about psychic phenomena, mind over matter. And I'd set me up with three sort of tests. You might call telepathy or clairvoyance, telepathy, being, you know, direct contact with someone's mind sharing thoughts, clairvoyance, being in awareness, something physically remote from you. So the funny thing was, they weren't they were only doing this to freak me out, not in any serious way. But they did choose three things. I got two of them freaked out. So that's your question. Like it was so innocent things, you know, like that? Again, I wasn't trying to show off I was trying to explore is it real? And can I have some control over it?

Alex Ferrari 6:36
Well, then let me ask you, though, when you went into, you know, the, the general field of academia, and you know, they're not very open to this stuff.

Howard Eisenberg 6:48
No, they were not.

Alex Ferrari 6:49
How were you? How did you even survive?

Howard Eisenberg 6:53
So that's interesting. And I could give you a cheap answer that too, in part. So certainly the academic institutions, broadly speaking, we're not welcoming such things. And going back to the postgraduate research, I did that Medical University in Montreal, Canada, which at the time, was one of the most esteemed university departments of psychology in the world, maybe the top six. And the head of that department was Professor do head who subsequent became president, the American Psychological Association, he was renowned internationally. And he's the father of what we call neuroplasticity, special cells that fire together, wire together, he's the guy. And now he hits said some years before I applied to do this research there, that he rejected all the evidence and parapsychological psychic research, because he considered our priori impossible. He used that word a priori, like theoretically impossible, and even said in print, and I admit this is prejudice. But, you know, he was very bold and nobody thought, sure, I decide I'm going to do it. They're back to your question. So that was I went where you could argue, we particularly the hardest place to do it, if the head of the department says it's theoretically impossible, how are they going to possibly allow me to do that research. But that goes back, if you like, to the theme, the purpose, and I hope, the benefit of my book, to turn your vision, what you intend into reality. So as it turned out, and there's a big backstory, which I don't think you want to go into, because I go through many barriers the university won't allow me to do, I did this as a double degree, I did a degree in medicine. And I did a postgraduate in psychology at the same time. And they initially tried to prevent me from doing that, not because of the research interest, I want to do to even know that yet. You said no one else has ever done two degrees at one time here. So like, you know, we can't process that. And I had overcome a lot of hurdles. And all seriousness. But anyway, back to McGill. So I did do the research that was spectacularly successful, showing celebrity amongst ordinary people in various highly controlled conditions, because there was so cynical skeptical about the possibility of this. And just add a little color to the story. It happened to be Professor have the chairman's secretary, who was the one who typed up my actual thesis. And I would go into her office once in a while, which was adjacent to his, for proofreading, you know, to make some minor corrections. And on one occasion near again, near the end of this process, and I was talking to her, he walked out of his office. And she said to him, she called out and he said, Professor, have, you are wrong, ESP is real, this research proves it. Now, within one year, there was a meeting of the American Psychological Association, if I remember this correctly, in Montreal, and for the first time, he admitted the possibility of the short term telepathy. And then he, you know, went on and as I poured my book, and subsequently, you know, acknowledging, yeah, we can't explain this stuff away. There's too much evidence.

Alex Ferrari 9:57
So let me ask you this, then at This is just a straight question because we talked about decoding reality. Are we in the matrix?

Howard Eisenberg 10:06
Well, okay, so so in a way, yes, but not the way it's sometimes being put out there, you know, a pocket or whatever. So one version of that, as you may know, is that we're in a computer simulation, from a civilization of the future. Sure. Okay. on many levels, back to your question, that doesn't make sense, as the explanation of metrics, but I will tell you, we are in one, and I'll explain why and how, but not that one, we're not in a computer simulation of civilization,

Alex Ferrari 10:34
Some 13 of some 13 year old

Howard Eisenberg 10:36
And it goes back to, you know, as I, as I, you know, first couple of chapters, as you remember, the first one is, things are not as they seem, and the second chapter pretty boldly as the only thing you can absolutely know, there's only one thing, you know, but your awareness. So when you talk about an advanced civilization, having a computer simulation and all that stuff, it still goes back to the more fundamental question, but But where does the initial mind consciousness come from? So if you say they create us, and we're not real source big, like, we think we are, but they are, but how do they have this ability of consciousness? So I think it there's so many assumptions built into that, aside from computer technology, and time travel, and all that stuff. And why they would even want to do that. But just, you know, fundamentally, it's, it's, there's a principle in science called aacomas. Razor, also known as a law Principle of Parsimony, which makes logical sense, because what it basically means as the least, you know, amount of assumptions is probably the best approach to various situations, if you want to understand them. The more assumptions you make more leaky it is, you know, noise of possibility of error. So that's how I go back to what I call be like, without making assumptions just on based on what we really know. And all of us can verify. And I try to give those examples in my book of people, they should be able to do it for themselves, some of these things. That's what we have to have as our kind of bedrock to base our ideas on. But back to your question on the other side of that, because we are in sort of a matrix. But not, as I said, a computer simulation. It's more analogous to a dream, like a grand dream, a divine tree. And in some ways, we're sort of players in that dream to a certain degree, like the Shakespearean concept, you know, all the players on the stage. But not like puppets. Because at a deeper level, as I try to explain my book for many different areas of science, and some of the old wisdom and indigenous teachings, there's this convergent understanding that we all come from a common source. I use the example of my book symbolically waves in an ocean. You can look at waves for a while, and they're separate, like it was the big way, small waves, but they're in flux, they come in and out of the larger part of the ocean. So they seem sort of separated, it's somewhat of an illusion and time from a certain vantage point. They're really part of that all the same thing. And I think similarly, we are like that. So I think we're in this like, dreamlike world, created by source, big, divine dreamer. So we call it God consciousness I call universal mind. Maybe even a better word is just source where we come from. But it's a two way connection. So it's not that we are created like it's just, you know, play things a players on the stage, so to speak, went back to that. It's a two way connection. Because we are connected to that source, we can go back to the source. You know, when when Jesus says, I in the Father one, but the Father great, and I again, to me, that's what he's describing, or the kingdom of God is within you seek and you shall find. And there's so many references, whether we use, you know, the New Testament that many people would be familiar with here in America, or we use some of the more exotic other religious texts, or the indigenous teachings, they're all actually converging on the same picture, which is very different than our understanding of reality. And I don't think it's just important, you know, you just want to know things are academically because I think it fundamentally also explains why life as we know, it is collapsing around us in so many ways, so many different ways of looking at quality of life. It is not looking good. Not just you know, now for a few years, but you know, those who have children, or grandchildren, oh my gosh, what kind of world are they coming into? So I think there's something fundamentally wrong in the way we're living our lives because we we've forgotten where the reality of where we come from, and how we're fundamentally really connected.

Alex Ferrari 14:46
Well, this is really interesting because I agree with everything you've said and a lot of the concepts of the Vedic texts, yogic philosophies. The aborigine the great dream, my this is all the same concepts, just different flavors of the same ideas. But they're it from my point of view from having these, you know, very deep conversation with so many people from around the world. I see some similar things to you I see patterns of in very little, if any disagreements in the core truths. Maybe the packaging is different.

Howard Eisenberg 15:25
Yes, I agree, I agree. Yes!

Alex Ferrari 15:27
I would, I would agree and disagree with you on the sense that I feel the things are collapsing around us because in one sense, I agree with you 100%. You could see it, it is visceral. But on the other end, I see an awakening in people's curiosities to these conversations to these ideas that have never been here before. And I think the generations coming up are even coming in with awarenesses and ideas that they look at things that my parents did, or for God's sakes, my grandparents did, and they just go, what do you what are you talking about? This makes no sense because I have children. So they don't they just they don't comprehend, and things that we tell them about in the 80s and 90s. They're like, yeah, people did what? And even now they're like, Why? Why is that happening with it? That doesn't make any sense. So there, I do think there's hope, in addition, but from I've talked to some spiritual, some spiritual masters on the show, and I asked them this, and they said, all the darkness that is being brought up, needs to be brought up. So it can be a light can be shined upon it, so we can deal with it and move on and evolve. Is that kind of your point of view as well?

Howard Eisenberg 16:39
Well, the reason I wrote this book, was was a wake up call to the world global wake up call, because of what I was aware of, and because I felt so many who were not aware of it, and not even having any curiosity become aware of it. Because I thought there are some of the critical lines were crossing in terms of sustainability of quality of life, you know, their species here, I had to speak out, I'm a doctor, it was like a call on a different level. I agree with you that there are some people now we're becoming more reflective, more questioning what matters. Even the pandemic has done that for many people, you know, realizing maybe what they've given up in terms of home life, family life, and even just downtime sometimes, you know, caught up in cubicles, and commuting and so on in the previous life we used to live. But I think it's a very small minority of people who are, you know, having that questioning and reflection. And one of the great things right now with the technology we're on right now, for examples in video, is that there's a lot of people connecting internationally, who have that deeper interest, who previously would not have been able to get which is ironic, using, you know, physical technology to connect to that matter spiritual. So I am seeing more groups, you know, forming, and more individuals joining those groups. But you know, it has a dark side to, I'm also seeing some people who used to be people, I have some admiration for as scientists as authors. And they're like, going down the dark side, they're, they're getting into ego, they're getting into fame, they're getting into being a media personality. And that's, you know, the wrong way, the wrong wrong path forward. The issues we face right now, to me are existential threats. When When I wrote the book, the manuscript was completed in the fall of 2021. And I endeavor to make sure it was up to date to the minute before it went out much more so than most books are. And back then I quoted the doomsday clock, which was the alarming, you know, short interval of 100 seconds before at midnight, which basically means annihilation of life was we understand on this planet. And there was before the rationalization in Europe, that was before runaway inflation. That was the force some of the severe bottleneck bottlenecks in supply chain, even for medications, for example. It was before a lot of bad things before some of the climatic disasters in many parts of the world. I mean, as you know, the Euro West has suffered a historic drought, there's been historic fires in Europe, Stark flooding and Pakistan, I don't want to go on a long list because it gets really down. But that is part of, you know, what's going on out there. And so it's so important for us, I think, a repeat to be awake, to why it's all happening. And how it doesn't have to happen. You know, I say in a summary way, in my book, The only way out of this mess is in and, and it goes back to home at a deeper level. You know, we're all connected or even if you want to go even before we're all that level of total connection with each other and everything. We get into intuition. And we also get into the richness of imagination. Imagination is the source of everything that we have created as humans, everything.

Alex Ferrari 20:09
And I mean, literally everything that's been designed or created.

Howard Eisenberg 20:12
It's so denigrated, you know, I started, I have many different careers, as you may or may not know if you've seen my website. So I've also been a fortune 100, trainer and consultant, one of my specializations was in creative thinking, you know, thinking out of the box innovation. And for so many people, they're so locked in to just seeing things one way, but it can be taught. And that's, again, part of the purpose, my book to teach people to have more choice of how they perceive things, how they process things, and how they act, what action they take.

Alex Ferrari 20:46
Well, I mean, this is one of the reasons why I started this show, is to get information like this out there to the masses. And based on my numbers, and based on what I'm seeing, there's a lot of curiosity out there and growing by the day, so

Howard Eisenberg 21:02
I know but you know, I'm also a physician, and I still do I still have a part time medical psychotherapy practice. And I'm hearing patients more and more come out with questions like this to me. What's the point, Doc? Oh, yeah, yeah. And just before we started, you know, our discussion here today, a couple hours ago, I was talking with a young university calling, he was telling me about her 13 year old daughter, who said to her, sort of speak semi, but she said the planet is dead. You know, what's the point? So I'm hearing that too, you know, maybe because of a position,

Alex Ferrari 21:34
Maybe, yeah, and again, and now. And I think this is where you and I will differ a little bit, I have a little bit more of a positive outlook on where we can go. Hopeful is a better term. But I'm not delusional to what is going on.

Howard Eisenberg 21:47
Well, I would, I would challenge you and who is more hopeful. Again, remember, I wrote this book as a wake up call for the entire world? Yeah. I don't think we have much time. Sure. There was a critical window. So I don't know it was more helpful than I am. Because I'm already crazy hopeful. So very, the problems but it's but it's like I, you know, I try to teach both my life coaching clients in my my psychotherapy patients, to have what I call a half cup full mindset. Yeah, as opposed to half empty, or if you like, an optimistic mindset, more than a pessimistic mindset? Well, so I think is that we can choose, and I choose that, but I'm very aware of the problem.

Alex Ferrari 22:32
And I agree with you, 100%. I think that's it. I'm aware of the problem. But I do choose the optimistic view of life where we're going, you have without question. Now, let's get into a field I'd love talking about which is quantum physics and spirituality. What? And I'd love to ask you this, because you come from this world. What problem does modern physics have with quantum physics? I've heard different, like, they just ignore it, they don't want to think about it, you know, quantum entanglement doesn't make sense. It kind of like throws their whole world of materialism out the door. does. So is that is that just like, it's just, it's the Galileo effect? Essentially, I don't want to look through the telescope.

Howard Eisenberg 23:16
Yeah, I mean, the same thing would come back to question everything about the power of psychological and psychic research, which I've achieved most during the university. Most people didn't want to consider the remote possibility that it even was something that could be real, let alone you know, studied experimentally. They might telepathy for example, you know, one level, we could say why he wouldn't believe it, and and fear it, because he, oh, my gosh, people who read my mind. You know, they know all my bad thoughts. So a lot of people have a lot to hide that way. And we get caught up in our egos. And that's again, part of the problem, when we get into this extreme sense of we're all separate from each other. Anyone that accounts is what we can get whoever, you know, maturity accumulate, right?

Alex Ferrari 24:01
Because we can take it all with us at the end. Who has the most things at the end wins, apparently, and obviously, that's what we take with us to the other side. That's why we put these pieces of gold on our eyes to pay that ferryman.

Howard Eisenberg 24:17
And yet spiritually, we know that, you know, how should I say the the more direct way, the more if you want to call it almost guaranteed way, there's not attachment. Not to bring anything with you that you think you need a value externally materially,

Alex Ferrari 24:35
Right! And that's the thing that when you get into the world of quantum physics, and you get in the world of modern physics, materialism versus non materialism, and which is basically the same thing we're dealing with, in life, the middle a materialistic person who wants to, you know, they're trying to fill the hole inside of themselves with stuff money. Our whatever, or the non materialist who is looking inward, and is starting to open their awareness to a point where they start to see the truth of we are all one, and we have to not non attachment and, and the higher you get into that vibration, the more enlightened you become to the point where you could become an Ascended Master. Yeah, you know, as they did, as many as many souls have. So, I think the battle in the physics community is a complete example of what's going on in society.

Howard Eisenberg 25:32
Well, I would even say, you know, in the psychology community, you know, as I point out, you know, the myth of the head brain, I call it, there's two other brains in the body, just, you know, I just got my heart, brain and the gut, brain and microbiome, the bacteria in our large intestine, they still go on in denial, that there's no evidence to link brain as a producer of consciousness. They go on in denial, they don't even have a theory I hypothesis of how the material brain can produce a material consciousness, not even a theory. But again, you know, there's practicing denial of reality in this case. And as an aside, just a funny comment about psychologists. So they're, you know, the experts of the mind, right? When we use tests of creative thinking, we find that as you may not be surprised at young kids, you know, seven years of age are, first of all, the most creative at that stage of life. But if we look at professions, one of the least creative professions, when we give them these types of tests are psychologists. So they think they understand my mind, you know, it's the exact opposite.

Alex Ferrari 26:43
But that's ego, it's always ego. When it comes to this case.

Howard Eisenberg 26:49
By as an aside, I'm actually starting to work on the second book. And it's exactly on eco eco management. Because I think, I think the critical vulnerability we have the goddess in this mess, is our difficulty regulating our own emotions, being too carried away by them, particularly, you know, fear and greed, which are, you know, raining right now, supreme almost around the world. So I think that's really so important to learn how I with my clients, I talk about learning to think through your emotions, not denying and denial to them, not trying to suppress them doesn't work very long, we tried diet and stuff like that, but thinking through them, because emotions can also give you some times power, passion, to do good things. But they cannot think they are not wise. So we have to use our thinking ability to direct, you know, the energies of motion, but most people don't understand that they don't have to do that, even though it's possible to learn it. And I think that's why we're in the mess we're in broadly speaking.

Alex Ferrari 27:48
Now, a lot of the things that we this whole phenomenon, other stuff that you're talking about. This is probably within the last, I guess, 2000 years or so that we have, especially the last 150 years, where we've ramped up this ego materialistic, yes, concept to an extreme that is unsustainable. Yeah. But if you start looking back at these old texts, the mystics from 5000 7000 year the matrix and things like that, the concepts that they were talking about, seems so more so much more evolved, than they were than where we are today. Yeah. And a lot of these ideas are starting to come out creeping out concepts like Medicaid, meditation and yoga and yeah, and you know, consciousness in general. But a lot of the concepts that that you talked about that they talked about in the verdicts are concepts or even a you we would we've been talking about today, were is basically quantum physics starting to figure out, or at least starting to,

Howard Eisenberg 28:56
Or converging with because because, you know, as I say, in my book, and I quote, as you know, a number of very eminent physicists who have totally moved now into the camp of saying, you know, that materialism is not the explanation of what we call reality. Oh, yeah. It requires the consciousness of mind. Can you imagine like admitting it, but what they have and they're some of the most eminent as a physicist,

Alex Ferrari 29:19
Nobel Peace Prize winner yeah, I've had a couple of I've had a few Nobel laureates and and nominees on talking about that talking about the consciousness talking about how the universe that consciousness is primal not primal, but it's

Howard Eisenberg 29:39
Well, insensitive basic is the primary it's the consciousness is everything, right? It's not secondary. For example, we, right now conventional science in the West, particularly in the general population, they think caution is again is produced by the head brain, right? So they think again, you know, material comes first, physicality comes first. We're seeing the exact opposite. No, no. It's consciousness that dreams up the brain that dreams up the body, the dreams of the material world around us other way around,

Alex Ferrari 30:08
They can't even comprehend that.

Howard Eisenberg 30:10
They have dreams. So when we experienced the matrix, the simulation in a way.

Alex Ferrari 30:17
But again, it's,

Howard Eisenberg 30:19
And then there's lucid dreaming, which I teach in my book, you know, where you can actually learn intentionally, yeah, to go into the dream world, and change, how it unravels whether we're still working with fear, whether it's to explore something.

Alex Ferrari 30:33
Well, is is honestly the reason why. And I have I have this debate constantly on the show, in regards to the reasoning why people are so resistant to new ideas, to out of the box thinking, in the scope of science, in the scope of nutrition in the scope of religion, and the scope of spirituality, is because they have told themselves a story that they've constructed in their own mind, to make sense of the world. And it's the foundation of their existence. And if I believe if I'm a Catholic, and I believe in reincarnation, it starts to shake the foundation, and I can't have that. So hence, I have to dis defend myself, just to defend the story, as opposed to being open to ideas.

Howard Eisenberg 31:17
So that's definitely one level explanation, and probably the more general one, sure, but at a much deeper level, it was a share my book to another explanation as if we're all dreamed up by the wind consciousness, God consciousness source. And as I said, as to a relationship, but what's the purpose? Like, going back to our understanding, and more popular here in the west of God? Being all knowing and all powerful? Why would God bother to create us at all? If God has everything knows everything? Why create us? So we might say, you know, what's recreated? He takes care of us? Or she? But why in the first place, trade us? And I think it's, it's not sounds strange. Words are awkward here. Can we talk about things beyond our words? But it's almost like God consciousness, Universal Mind source needs us to more fully experience reality. I'll give you an example that you have a face. Now, you know, you have one I can see. But you can't see it right now. Unless you're looking at the monitor. Are you looking at a mirror? So even though it's your face? No question, you know, to you about that. Or other people just like challenging you, but it's your face. But for you to see your face, you have to have some external device, be it as simple as a mirror or electronic again, display screen, whatever it might be, be able to see it. So similarly, so that was increases your awareness having this device, even though you're coming from consciousness, having this physical device helps you be more aware in your consciousness, right? Now you can see that blemish in your face or you know, through your hair, whatever, and get your makeup, right, depending on what's going on. So decreases, in a sense empowers you. So similarly, as being extensions of divine consciousness, and everything with us. There's all these sentient beings, and also everything we consider to be part of nature, material world. It enables the divine consciousness, to have even a greater awareness and expansion of awareness. Yeah, it makes us I understand, it's a purpose, if you want to call it that way.

Alex Ferrari 33:30
It's a beautiful, it's very, The Allegory of the Cave, kind of except one explanation of, of it, because it's so funny, I was talking to a spiritual master the other day, as one does. And, and he said the exact same thing you did, in a different tone, or a different way. But he's like, God created us as an it needs, he needs it needs us to further understand itself,

Howard Eisenberg 34:04
In a way in a way more fully, again, expand awareness,

Alex Ferrari 34:07
Right! Exactly. In that we are all connected to this source energy, we are not disconnected. We are like you said the waves but we're all connected to the ocean but it's the false narrative that materialism and society is put out that we are all separate

Howard Eisenberg 34:24
Very much so and coming back to so as I said, you know, you're correct in terms of why psychologically emotionally, we have that resistance to these realizations or accepting these beliefs. But going back to the deeper again explanation of where we come from, why we're here so our understanding to quote for example, Alan Watts in this regard, but other teachers have come up with you know, similar description, that in a way to make this all more interesting. Move on consciousness God Universal Mind source puts a certain level of inherent randomness into this. So there's intrinsic unpredictability of how things will totally unfold. And if there wasn't thinking about how boring it would become free will, you know, you might have a favorite series, or whatever. And if you haven't watched exactly the same episode, every time, it would be really unpleasant, it would not be something at all you'd be attracted to. So in using Alan Watts terminology, it's like gods creating a game of hide and seek. So purposely is part of the design, it's not so obvious, we have that connection. And that was part of the role historically, a shaman and medicine man to to help people keep that connection, that alignment, you know, with a deeper wisdom, and just like, you know, the law of seven durations, you know, the distance teaching the thing, the longer picture, the bigger perspective. So I think that's part of it, I use an intrinsic design and reality. To mix things up a bit. Well, to make it less obvious,

Alex Ferrari 36:03
But that's free will. That's the that's the LM we have, yes, the, the the moment of like, it's random, because free will we at any moment, I could choose to do something, you can choose to sue something. But from again, from my understanding, the way our lives are laid out, there is probability of where we're going to go. But in many times, it could go another way. Right? So then I

Howard Eisenberg 36:26
Just in quantum mechanics, right, we we look at the so called particles or waves of probability, and the best we can do is have a probability of where it's gonna land on what's going to be,

Alex Ferrari 36:35
Right, which completely laughs in the face of materialism. So then, I've come up with it, and maybe someone else has before but I said, I asked, somebody wants to go, so are we the algorithm of God? Are we the code that he is putting out into the, into the, into the reality of the universe?

Howard Eisenberg 36:54
Yes. Jesus says, I am the father, one of the things I do you shall do too, right? Yes. That's how I actually looked at the Bible. It's coded. Of course. There's so many, you know, so many disagreements about what it means. And if I recall correctly there, there's 40,000 different denominations of Christianity alone in the world right now. 40,000 different ones. And among them, as you may well know, yourself, they don't even agree in the same Bible. I don't, a lot of these just think broadly, they do. But they don't, at all. And beyond that, I don't know. They've understood it. It's coded

Alex Ferrari 37:28
And has been rewritten so many times by so many different points of views and so many different it's, yeah, it's don't get me started.

Howard Eisenberg 37:34
So what I liked about, you know, Aldous Huxley was brilliant. And his book party called the perennial philosophy, as most of us were, you know, brought up, let's say, with different religions in our homes. Maybe if you were coming from atheistic concept, probably most of us over the years came from homes of some denomination. And we were taught by our families, usually, we are fortunate, we are blessed, we're in the right one, everybody else is wrong, like, you know, just not the right one. Some worse, you know, like, it's, you know, Devil stuff, you know, like, they're totally, you know, into evil or misled. And that's how we were taught about it, like, we were taught, you know, we have the right one, and all the other ones are wrong, you know, as a young kid, logically, something's wrong here. But a lot of people never went beyond that. And they still don't you know, that, you know, we, you know, our generation is, you know, just one of many that has followed, this was in any minute remembrance, particular church or, you know, whatever. So, we get, we get so trapped in those, you know, identities. And Huxley looked at question differently. And they said, maybe what's in common to all of these is more like the original truth signal that we should be more guided by. And so that's how he looked at it. So he looked at what if anything, is in common? All of these different religions that otherwise don't recognize and don't even agree the origins of our religion? But what at the core? Maybe they use different words and different parables and examples, but the core, what are the similar things, you know, their thing lands on the same page on so to speak, they converge on and it's so enlightening, and it fits the latest discoveries of quantum physics totally. Plus, we're learning again about, you know, consciousness more broadly and altered states of consciousness. Totally!

Alex Ferrari 39:28
And talking about different states of consciousness, what they're now discovering, in meditators, heavy meditators, where they're able to go down to a frequency that they weren't even able, they didn't even know about. It was some Tibetan monks. They said, No, no, I can keep going. It's a completely and they say that the deeper or the more disconnected from the mind you get, the more access you have to the universal understanding,

Howard Eisenberg 39:55
Like, like a simple way to do that. And it's very simple. Well, it's part of what I described my book many trillions techniques to play with reality, a simple technique is to just focus on your breathing. And particularly trying to change the balance of who we call your inhalation or your in breath compared to your out breath, your exhalation. So that's your out breath, your exhalation is about twice as long in length and duration and time as your in breath. And to play with that for a bit. And not to strain yourself physically when you're doing this. And then have a little more of a gap between the completion of your end breath when you fully have inhaled, and before you exhale, and then have a longer gap pause between when you fully have excelled. And before you inhale, and that pause between the longer exhalation and the coming inhalation. People can feel some of the depths and just a moment of time. No drugs, no special environment required.

Alex Ferrari 41:03
Agreed! Agree i It's happened to me. Yeah, it's happened to me, I'm, I'm a heavy meditator so that I felt that.

Howard Eisenberg 41:09
And I realized that, you know, the ideas I'm presenting are at the minimum provocative, because it's, you know, challenging with law that we just take for granted. But I think the, the evidence is so comprehensive that I'm presenting and the logic connecting it. And then the experiences, I just give you one just, you know, brief again, a reminder of one. If people are open to it, I mean, this does give them the way forward with hope, and empowerment from that.

Alex Ferrari 41:40
And that's the thing I love about your book, and what you're doing it is giving people the power to to do it within themselves, which is the core teachings of so many mystics and so many spiritual masters across the millennia is it's not outside of you. It's inward, you have to go inward, to find the answers, you have to go inward, to find the power within all of it's always inward. It's never, ever outside ever!

Howard Eisenberg 42:11
I know. And we now are living in an age technologically, you know, with our smartphones, where so much of us are almost, you know, addicted to our attention being outward? Yes. And I don't mean that we're just the, you know, original grabbers were out and about. And I don't even mean just our screen, because a lot of people when they're not looking at their phone, they're still thinking about, did they get that message, you know, and who they have to message. And they check their calendar. And so even though they're not even physically operating, you know, their phone or time physically available to them to use immediately, is still occupying bandwidth. So it's just one example.

Alex Ferrari 42:51
I'd love to talk to you about the concept of the multiverse and parallel realities, because it is something that is starting to come into the zeitgeist more and more with popular movies and ideas. What is your take on it? And from a scientific standpoint, and from a kind of more spiritual standpoint?

Howard Eisenberg 43:13
Well, think first of all, historically, as you know, we've had so many different very different cultures over the years, in so many different ways, with their own levels of technological advancement, and architecture, and agriculture, and practices, and so on. And they seem like so fundamentally different. And even now, we look at parts of the world that seem so fundamentally different in their ideologies and their use of technology and how they relate to working with agriculture, etc. But it all comes from one source. So he asked him multiverse. Well, in the end, going back to the dreamer analogy, of course, we are not the all of it. We're connected to the all of it, potentially, if we go in, but we, as we experience ourselves with some separation right now and individuality are not the all of it. And this is not the only type of reality that can be experienced. And it's not even a question of, you know, time travel, to choose me already exists of aliens. I mean, right now, we potentially can go into a totally different reality. I don't want to blow your mind too much. Now, I guess like it's infinite, like anything, you can imagine eventually, in some way can be manifested. And, you know, as I point out with some very, I think, living examples, some of the major discoveries in science, some of the major technological devices the fundamental things we know base are called advanced civilization on Oh came and were acknowledged by the inventor, so their imagination totally. So I repeat, everything can come from us because, again, these phones are like magic, right? You think of what you can do with them. And that's why I said like, the new alchemists of our era are those who write code for these applications. Because they're playing with me playing all types of things. And whether they playing with really information, ideas. It's not physical technology that's doing it. And our devices, as you know, in part, they're actually getting smaller and smaller and simpler and simpler, in some ways. When you think of what, you know, this would have been a mainframe, perhaps, huge, you know, part of a physical room at one point, and still wouldn't have the speed. So the weird part is, you know, we're doing these that are more and more sophisticated with technology. But the material base that technology is becoming less and less evident, or arguably required. Here, a closer closer, just coming from a mind alone, unconscious and low.

Alex Ferrari 45:53
So in regards to the it to the concept of the multiverse, is it from a point of a scientific point of view? How is that a possibility? Is there a way to explain the multiverse in a way of being able to

Howard Eisenberg 46:07
So so here's like you can call it a problem or an opportunity. Anything you can imagine, can happen. So you can imagine a part and you are because you're breaking it up? Yes. And it's not a question of how I'll repeat everything comes from resonation. We don't have to know how the imagination shows us the way.

Alex Ferrari 46:31
Okay, so then let me ask you this, on the psychedelic standpoint, and what do you want to talk about another realm?

Howard Eisenberg 46:41
Which is getting more and more popular. Good and bad today. Yes.

Alex Ferrari 46:44
Yeah. Well, they've finally decriminalized it and now the research is happening, and it's actually helping a tremendous amount of people. Can you explain from your point of view, what happens when someone takes a psychedelic? Where do they go?

Howard Eisenberg 46:56
Absolutely, absolutely. And a few respects, right. So first, let's start with how should a more conventional scientific popper believe that, you know, brain is caught, which is not. So it's really interesting, because when people take psychedelics, something like psilocybin, which is one of the proper ones out there, but ones like that, as well, it actually reduces the brain activity, particularly what we call the default mode network where like a too complicated neurologically, but like critical, important parts of the brain that we think that important for, you know, higher powers of thinking and functioning, actually knocks them out. Right, I suppose, by the way, deep meditation, right? So you know, one level my response about, you know, what we'll just like a deluxe do, they knock out the filtering of the brain, they allow you more access to the greater expanse of consciousness. In my, one of my areas of work, still currently medical psychotherapy. There is increasing interest, as you know, in using psychedelics, so they're using psychedelics to facilitate psychotherapy. So I've explained neurologically, first of all, what's what's happening contrary, when people think that enhances brain functioning? No, it takes it out of the way. But why is it a benefit clinically, for patients in the proper situations in it, I think it does require a proper situation, called the guy in the setting as they call it. Because when you are under the influence of a psychedelic, even if you have, unfortunately been a victim of great abuse, great trauma, have conditions like we call PTSD. it liberates you from that. You realize you're so much more than your memory, or what happened to you. Again, you get more in touch with that infinite resourcefulness. And it's not a temporary thing. It's like my only when you're, you know, sort of stoned under the influence of these drugs. You feel that way? No. When you have the proper guy therapist working with you, no, you're you're liberated from it.

Alex Ferrari 48:54
Yeah, I actually, I actually interviewed a an Afghanistan vet, who came back and he went to, to South America and did three days of ayahuasca. And he had PTSD had a really bad case of PTSD. And he came back and he's like, I was scared after those sessions, and now he goes, now he goes to the vet, or the, all his fat friends, it's like, you've got to go down just because it liberates you. And he didn't become like a shaman or anything like that. He's still a military, you know, as he calls it.

Howard Eisenberg 49:26
Most people, you know, that one scene from it. But if somebody was just wildly experimenting with, you know, cause harm to them, they don't know what they're doing, and they have no one to help them.

Alex Ferrari 49:37
That's the thing. I was talking to a neuroscientist the other day about that specific thing about psychedelics and what it could do. When I spoke to a spiritual master the other day, you actually spoke into a yogi. When I asked him about psychedelics, he's like, you. This is really beautiful, because you're walking into a door that you weren't invited in. And you need to be careful because you also aren't prepared for what happens inside of it unless you have guidance. And you only in there for a short amount of time, whereas the yogic perspective is you spend years preparing your awareness to get there. Naturally, which is what rom das said he because he was tired of going on trips, until he met the Maharishi and he's like, someone who's there all the time. I want to do with be there all the time it because, but I was I was actually neuroscientists and they said the exact same things, people think or that that mind speeds up. It takes it off line, which then Allah so that's then that begs the question, which is why meditation is so powerful is when you quiet the mind and disconnect, you're able to connect to other aspects of reality within yourself and the yogi's have been talking about this, that, you know, meditators and even martial artists who even masters do

Howard Eisenberg 51:01
Even connect, for example, without going too far off to things like intuition, to gut feeling to become more aware of them, to value them or highlight that sometimes they're really good cues, to what's the right way forward.

Alex Ferrari 51:15
So then we asked, What are we connecting to? Is it the quantum field? Is it the Akashic records? Is that what

Howard Eisenberg 51:23
You know, those those are all things that are more like things that which we're aware, and like, you know, one of the things I really enjoy too, and, you know, some of the ancient Vedic teachings is, if you know the expression, and I engaged in the book, the knower cannot know itself, it can only know things outside of. So we're aware of things. But back to the thing about looking in a mirror, you know, and I'll take another angle that for a moment. So when you look in a mirror, you see your face, and you know what your face, you've seen it before, and you if you try to maybe move it or touch it, you'll see correspondingly changing visually, but although you know what's your face, and only maybe looking at your eyes, what you see in the mirror is not you, it's a reflection of your face. It's not you, even though it's your face, and you see eyes, as you look at it, for example, with well illuminated, those eyes aren't seeing you. You're seeing now who are you? Is it your body? And I know I go through the exercise in my book. No. So when you asked about things like Akashic records, and multiverses, and all that, it's all within the Divine Source consciousness, all of it. It's again, infinite possibilities, there is no restriction.

Alex Ferrari 52:37
It's, it's just such a fascinating kind of conversation. I know a lot of people listening right now their minds are blown,

Howard Eisenberg 52:42
Think we're both crazy.

Alex Ferrari 52:44
I don't know, if they're listening, I hope they don't think we're crazy. It doesn't matter if they do, they don't.

Howard Eisenberg 52:49
So I feel to at this point, you know, they wrote us a wake up call, I think people really need to be awakened. I'm come from a good place. I help people I share by increasing awareness.

Alex Ferrari 53:01
But these kinds of conversations, which I have quite often on the show, I just look at all these ideas. This is fundamental stuff. This is just basic stuff of understanding of the nature of reality. And again, because I keep talking to so many different people from different walks of life, who are saying the same things in different ways. It's just pretty fascinating to see this and you start and then this is the other thing too. If it rings true to you, then this is for you. Now you are ready for this information. If it doesn't, discard it, and move on and live your life to what you know. And maybe the seed is planted maybe five years from now 10 years, and now you've you'll, you'll grab it as many things did in my youth that I didn't understand.

Howard Eisenberg 53:46
In my case, I feel a moral imperative. You know, as a doctor, as an educator, so even if people don't know these things, don't have an interest in it and even are resistant to it. I feel it's kind of my obligation, if I'm aware of something you're not aware of that's really critically important to them, to try to find a way in a friendly way to bring to their attention.

Alex Ferrari 54:08
That's all we can do my friend. That is all we can do.

Howard Eisenberg 54:11
That's right. So you can take on someone else's karma. Exactly.

Alex Ferrari 54:15
What else is carved up? Now, this is something that always fascinates me in the medical community. This is the quantum mechanics of medicine, the placebo effect if throws everything out of whack for them in regards to experiments, and I still remember talking to a doctor. Yeah, we were we're doing this experiment and the placebo effect just kept throwing all my findings off. I'm like, maybe you should look into that and what is so can you explain to people who don't understand what the placebo effect is? Sure is the concept of it and but also the deeper power that is going on.

Howard Eisenberg 54:55
Good glad to but before I do that, I managed to salvage talk to you about it. experimenter effect. Because the signals we're talking about things that affect us physically or our consciousness, the form of some type of drug substance that we're given. But the experimenter effect refers to, sometimes the unconscious or subconscious biases experimenters have for certain type of theory or hypothesis. And so they get the results they're sort of expecting. And it's a very serious problem in science generally, and particularly in psychology, what they call replication, when other people try to repeat the same experiment, they very rarely come up with exactly the same and convergent findings. It's a real problem in science and taking psychology, the replication crisis. Because of this experimenter bias, even if you assume honesty, as a, this can be subconscious. Now back this, just so you know, the power of how our mind effects things, but coming back more directly to the SIBO effect, it's just, it's fascinating, on so many levels, because at one level is such definitive proof of what they call parapsychology, psychokinesis, PK, mind over matter. So if you are given something that looks like a drop, it could be an empty capsule, it could have just ordinary sugar in it, or some other we call chemically inert substance, not gonna do anything to you. But it looks like a real tablet, or a capsule or syrup, you know, whatever it might be, and is given to you in a convincing way. Many people, my average about 30% will have the, you know, so called effect benefit of this really fake drug. And when you give them these, we have to do this, actually, experimentally, we want to introduce new medications on the market, they have to prove in one, they have an effect, they have the, you know, secondly, they're not harmful. And thirdly, it's more effective than that effect than placebos. And most drugs, by contrast, you might think, you know, a real drug is gonna percent effective now, it's more like 60 to 70%, when I'm talking about side effect issues in terms of how you know why they can be used. So it's not like, the real thing is on a percent. Now, the real thing is about 60 70%. And there's still issues, I say, practicality, placebos come in around 30 35%, but half of that, and that's it, untrained people. Here's another thing thing about, you know, their side of that. So when they do this, in the drug trial process to before they get regulatory approval, when they're giving it to these patients, they have to fill out questionnaires, reporting, various, you know, benefits and potential side effects. And it seems quite straightforward to patients in these things. So they're looking for side effects. Because they sort of know you can get side effects from drugs to some degree. But here's the funny thing. Remember, placebos, chemically inert, it has no effect. Emotionally, or physically, I knew exactly what to expect, basically. Many of them write down all types of negative side effects. You know, it gave me a headache, gave me diarrhea, I got a rash. I'm not joking. Yeah. Because if you have a negative expectation, back to the power of imagination, it can manifest negatively. It works both ways. So we need to be careful, mindful of how we direct our awareness and our intentions, because it can have effects, not just in our well being.

Alex Ferrari 58:18
And that is what I asked you about the placebo, because it is such a powerful lesson and how powerful our minds are, in

Howard Eisenberg 58:25
Without training. Imagine if we train people, you know, through imagery and have no setup doses, and so on.

Alex Ferrari 58:30
So do we control our own reality? Can we design our own reality and in this world?

Howard Eisenberg 58:38
To a degree, you know, I also use the reference of Shakespeare's karma that we're all players on the stage. And in a way in terms of this divine dream consciousness we are. But as you may know, in the world of you know, acting stage productions. Usually the characters on the stage have assigned roles. And it's scripted in some way. And we have the pact your question, and we have the power to improvise. We don't have to be stuck in that role. We don't have to follow the script, many has never questioned this. We don't have to. I mean, I myself, I've had several different careers, none of them quite simultaneously, I suppose be able to do that. Going back to what I said about McGill University to be raised together. That's a long time ago. You can't do that. Who's ever done before? Those are artificial, those barriers. But if you believe them, there'll be real for you go back to Plato's cave.

Alex Ferrari 59:31
So then we are we are all given apart in this life, like an actor would give a given apart.

Howard Eisenberg 59:37
Yes, but we have the opportunity as it's two ways, right? To reclaim our ability to improvise suddenly.

Alex Ferrari 59:43
Correct. So it is so the script is written, but we can improvise the script and we can move in different places on the set. But there's still those barriers, not barriers but guardrails in our reality. In other words, you and I are not going to just get up and start to fly, because those aren't at least you out. Don't be don't think we can't at least. But generally speaking, there are some guide rails, if you will.

Howard Eisenberg 1:00:06
This will freak you out but I have played with levitation when I was a kid.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:09
Sure. I'm sure. Well I mean I've talked to Yogi's with levitated.

Howard Eisenberg 1:00:13
I've talked about I was just a kid I just playing with it.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:16
So it's, it's possible, there's a lot of possibilities,

Howard Eisenberg 1:00:20
Where you get to hear the other way around. Nothing's impossible. That isn't to say totally good, because bad things can happen to when you open it up that way. Sure. But that's kind of how I look at it. Nothing's impossible. My first year was my mother. And she taught me there's no such thing as cat. I didn't realize years later until, you know, I was, well, you're about to our best in my studies, the majority. How powerful and wise that was,

Alex Ferrari 1:00:46
Yeah. Yeah, without question. No, Howard, I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?

Howard Eisenberg 1:00:55
Be true to yourself. Being authentic.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:59
How do you define God?

Howard Eisenberg 1:01:00
Our source, that from where we come, that's where we're connected to all?

Alex Ferrari 1:01:04
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Howard Eisenberg 1:01:06
To expand awareness and connect with every aspect of awareness, to the field of love.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:14
And where can people find out more about you the work you're doing and pick up this amazing book, Dream it to do it?

Howard Eisenberg 1:01:20
Thank you. My website, which is The books available primarily online, through Amazon, Barnes and Noble chapters, indigo, it can be ordered to bookstores, but generally, it's most available online.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:34
And do you have any final words for our audience?

Howard Eisenberg 1:01:37
Thank you, all you and the audience, for listening, and I hope reflecting on what I'm sharing. And I hope after this reflecting even more deeply and being enriched by it.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:50
My friend, I appreciate you in the work that you're doing in this world. Thank you again for coming on.

Howard Eisenberg 1:01:54
Thank you, Alex. Be well!

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