Hope and Healing: Protecting Children with Gloria Masters

Alex Ferrari 0:03
You've gone through things that are unimaginable to most people on this planet. I have to ask, Did you ever ask that question has that question ever been proposed to you?

Gloria Masters 0:16
When bad things happen, the gift is and what do we do with that? And what do we learn from that? Children who are sex trafficked across the world sleep in their own beds at night. Children can't save themselves. They need us. So you would see this sign. They're being targeted. They're being targeted to through things like Snapchat, Instagram, Tiktok, and they don't know it, because what the predators do is take on the persona of a same age child.

Alex Ferrari 0:50
I'm sorry. I'm tearing up a little bit, so bear with me.

I like to welcome to the show Gloria Masters. How you doing Gloria?

Gloria Masters 1:06
I'm great. Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:08
Thank you so much for being on the show. You know, when you came across my desk, your story really touched me, and what in the work that you're doing in the world to try to help help children who are sex trafficked and abused and kidnapped and all of these things. I felt that it was an important message to put out there, and I think that this episode is going to hopefully help heal a lot of people out there. And that's my intention. I think that's your intention as well with this conversation. So I appreciate you being so brave to come out and speak about this publicly and do the work that you're doing in the world. So first and foremost, I applaud you for what you're doing.

Gloria Masters 1:48
Thank you. I felt that.

Alex Ferrari 1:52
I do too. So let's, let's dive in. You know, tell me your story of what happened to you when you were younger and and then we can go from there.

Gloria Masters 2:04
So thanks, Alex for agreeing to have me on the show. Very much appreciated by me. So look, I was born and bred into a family where I believe intergenerational child sex trafficking was the norm. So I'm from New Zealand, from West Auckland, and I was first of all abused by my father from from infancy, really, but sexually abused more and more from the age of four and a half was when it all really kicked off the I had a mother, of course, but she was very unavailable, so very narcissistic, very disinterested, very much Get out of my way type attitude, so I had no safe adults around me now, a rather sick twist to the tail was that from about the age of five, my grandmother, my father's mother, was tasked with training me to Be the best sex slave possible. And unfortunately, where I had thought there was love and possibility of acceptance and safety, it turned out that was the very worst place I could ever be, so from her home and from various places throughout Auckland, which is my hometown and our own home. When my mother was absent, I began to be sex trafficked from six years of age, although I'd been leased to my father's friends and extended family well before that, this was when serious money started to be made, so the impact on me was not to feel at all like a person or that I had anything meaningful to offer, and What began in me as a very excited, inquisitive, curious, fun, loving child quickly changed. And you know, the adults around me choose to use and abuse and exploit as much as they could, and made a lot of money out of me, actually. So, yes, that was the start of my life.

Alex Ferrari 4:45
How did you How long did this go on for?

Gloria Masters 4:49
I meant, managed to escape all of this the day I turned 16, which is why 16 is my very favorite number of all. And. Um, that was a day I never had to see my father again. My parents had separated at 11, and I got left in the house with him as the only girl. And that's the the memoir, or my story, if you like, is focused on those 18 months of hell. I didn't think I'd make it through. So Alex, when I say I'm grateful to be here, I mean that in more ways than one.

Alex Ferrari 5:28
Was there any hope when you were in this any adult, any glimmer of kindness or mercy during these those years?

Gloria Masters 5:40
Well, no, I can safely say there were no safe air lots in my life apart from at school. But you see, it was at school I could steal food, steal other kids food and eat because they didn't want me to eat much because the predators would pay more for a younger looking child. So I was very skeletal and undernourished, but the worst thing that happened at school was that teachers had no idea, and so I was basically either ignored or being reprimanded for my out of control behavior. And Alex, this is a really pertinent point. Children will always show what's going on in their world when they're safe too. And so at school was my only safe place. So I was out of control. At home, I was too scared to be anything but compliant.

Alex Ferrari 6:43
So when, so, can you tell us the story of how you got out of this at 16?

Gloria Masters 6:49
When my parents separated at 11, the agreement was that I could see my mother every second weekend. And then part of the legal agreement, or so I'm told, was that the day I turned 16, I could decide for myself who I wanted to live with and whether I, you know, wanted to see my father. So I chose not. Now that may sound like an easy thing to have conveyed to him nothing could be further from Ruth. I was terrified, and he was scary, and my mother, of course, was never going to be reliable and never going to have my back. She hadn't been able to from infancy. So that was a door I couldn't keep knocking at it was never going to open. So suffice it to say that not only or also included in the child sex trafficking was I had many forced abortions on me at the hands of my grandmother because no one wanted a pregnant child. So between the ages of 11 and a half and 16, there were many forced abortions to the point where I thought I was going to die, and they had to call in a doctor who was one of the elite groups I'd been trafficked to, and I remember one one night, hearing him say to my grandmother, if she doesn't get if we don't get this bleeding to stop, she's not going to make it through the night. So that's how I was treated. I was trafficked to many groups. I was leased out of a nightclub in our red light district from the age of nine, and that was in an upstairs room in our red light district. And it was there I would be chained to a bed because people like the fact many name women Alex that they could abuse me however they wish to. They had to pay more. Of course. Alongside that was I had to perform in Child Sexual Abuse materials, as in videos. And, you know, perform on adult men and women and children at times, because those images and those videos the old fashioned, the old what do we call that?

Alex Ferrari 9:35
Eight millimeter? Eight millimeter, or video eight millimeter.

Gloria Masters 9:41
Yeah. Back in those days, they didn't have video,

Alex Ferrari 9:46
Eight millimeter, yeah, Super Eight,

Gloria Masters 9:49
Okay. And I always remember the sound of the clicking. The clicking is, there's the tape turned but I would, I would approach not another adult around me but at the softest, safest looking pedophile, believe it or not, because I thought if I was to approach them and behave in the sexualized way I've been trained to, they may be gentler with me and not hurt me as much. So there was, there's so many layers and levels. I'm so grateful to be here. I'm very thankful.

Alex Ferrari 10:24
Gloria I have to ask you, I mean, this sounds so horrific, and my heart and my soul cry out to you, really and I I just want to hug you, you know, hug that little girl that was going through all of this. How did you mentally deal with this? Did you have any spiritual did you even, did you think about that? Did you think about a god? Did you were you angry at this God, or was there someone there, helping you in the spiritual sense that you, you know, I don't know. I'm just asking, is there anything like that? How did you go through this mentally?

Gloria Masters 11:05
Yeah, so when I realized I it was me or me I could rely on, I started to go within. I had nothing outside of me, and there was no safe at all. There was no safe person. I couldn't trust anybody. I would put myself in the boot of my father's predator friends, hoping that when they discovered me in their back at their homes, they would keep me and keep me safe. That's how desperate I was, but they always returned me to him. But in answer to your question, I learned to go within, and I learned to look up at the sky. So often I would see the sky at night and see the man in the moon smiling, and I thought, Oh, he's smiling at me. Someone loves me. Or during the day, I'd make shapes with clouds, as children do and and just hold on to anything I could through, through light, actually. And I also became a big fan of angels. So they were around me from a very young age, little, tiny ones with wings when I was little, but they grew as I grew it now they're huge. So we have Michael, Raphael and Gabrielle and my my protectors, my lovely angels, but I had to, I had to have, I had to have something. And I think out of that grew I can do this. I can do this. So some days, I couldn't feel that I'd get through it. Some hours, I didn't think I'd make it. And sometimes it was just minute by minute, I think I just if I can just keep moving, if I can just keep breathing so.

Alex Ferrari 12:56
When you when you finally got away from this situation and became free, essentially, was there any consequences for your father, for your family, for any of this?

Gloria Masters 13:12
Yes, good question. So it took me until I was a parent myself and my daughter was the same age I was when the abuse began at its worst, that I started having the most horrendous flashbacks and triggers. Prior to that, I had told people about what had gone on as a teenager and then as a young adult, but I'd blocked all that. And so when the mind is really the the recall appears. And so they came at me, and you can imagine it was at the the speed of light. If I hadn't been a parent, Alex, I wouldn't be here today. It was that horrendous. And that was the memories. That was not the events in terms of me experiencing them, that was just the recall. So you can imagine the horror. And so yes, for me, dealing with all of that took a toll, but it was during the first year or two of recovery of memory, full memory that I went to the I went to a lawyer, who then went to the police, who then began an investigation, and they had seven full time detectives on the case. They worked very hard, and when they came and saw me, they said, unfortunately, it's not that we don't believe you. You're credible. We could put you on the stand tomorrow. It's more that the burden of proof can't be met, and you're only one person out of many who say that never happened. So my whole family turned again. Me, I lost everybody because I was evil, deluded, a liar, the black sheep, a troublemaker, and yes, my mother worked very hard to make sure the rest of the family saw me that way.

Alex Ferrari 15:17
Just to go back for a second when you said that, when you when you had a child, these memories came flooding back. It was because you completely just blocked you put them in a box, lock, the lock, the box through the wave key, and just shoved it somewhere into your subconscious, correct?

Gloria Masters 15:36
Yeah, yeah. See what? Yeah, yeah. So it's really important point actually, because you'll have amazing survivors watching this, and this is good for people to be aware of. Okay, Alex, when we when all this horror occurs as children and teenagers, we can't stay in our body, but the body can't leave, so the mind does, and that's what dissociation is now for me, the horror. You could make a documentary or a movie about it, and people would think it was fantastical, as opposed to real or true. So even though, as a 13 year old I told a friend of mine what was happening, and as a 20 year old I told someone I was training with to be a teacher. What happened? I blocked that as well. So I blocked everything to do with it until my mind was ready. I was ready to deal. And that is when I was in my early 30s.

Alex Ferrari 16:35
So the so you're, you're, you just could not process it. You didn't have the, the equipment, the skill set to process it so you your brain. I'm just trying to dig in here a little bit, because it's so important for people to understand this that you know, we all have traumas in our lives, and we all block things that were traumatic in our lives. Obviously, what you're what you dealt with was an extreme, an extreme and a horrific extreme at that. But the concept, the idea, is still the same, big trauma, small trauma, we hide that the brain is designed to protect us generally. So it's there to block. It'll block. We don't want to deal with that, because that's going to bring us pain. Let's not deal with that. But the longer you went when it finally the the dam broke, if you will. It was such a rush that you it. I'm assuming it took a lot for you to even handle that, because you were not forced to. You were it was right in front of you, and your your your brain was like, No, I can't hold this back anymore. We need to deal with this is that kind of how it happened

Gloria Masters 17:42
100% and it's like, Look, if you are in a car accident and it's a fairly serious one, it's the best analogy I can think of. You may not recall what happened to you for several days because your mind kicks in to protect it protects us from the trauma of knowledge, of knowing, of being in the moment. And as I said, the very best definition of dissociation is the mind leaves because the body can't. That's right, so yeah, so I could deal with it, apparently, in my 30s. So thanks. It came. You know,

Alex Ferrari 18:22
Once that flood of memories came back, I'm assuming it was kind of like ohh god. I don't know if this is a good term, but the dark night of the soul, you had to do the shadow work. You had to go in and deal with these, these, these monsters inside of your psyche, and you had to bring them out into the light, which is not not fun at all, and only by doing that, though, is how you essentially free yourself to be able to have a conversation like this very freely. And you have been having them for many years now. Is that correct?

Gloria Masters 18:55
About three I at three and a half, I first started talking back in 2021 when my memoir came out, but Yeah, and look, I feel healed enough and that I need to give back. I don't have a choice. Alex, it's just very big in me. You see, this purpose is to shine light help others by shining light on this darkness, so people can be helped.

Alex Ferrari 19:26
So, so one question I get asked all the time, and I like to ask this question to you to see what you have to say, because I think it's a very important question so many of us, I'm sorry I'm tearing up a little bit, so bear with me. So many of us go through, go through life with things happening to them, bad things happening to them. And the question I get asked often is, why does bad things happen to good people? I. Yeah, you've gone through things that are unimaginable to to most people on this planet. Yeah, I have to ask, Did you ever ask that question? Has that question ever been proposed to you, and have you had have you been able to answer it?

Gloria Masters 20:17
Yeah. And look, thank you, and thanks for your compassion. I see that I've wondered that myself. I've asked that of myself. And you know, the unhealed parts of me over the initial decade where I was just angry and furious and blaming. Now I see it slightly differently, and just breathe through it. I think what happens to us in life is good things happen that that makes us happy, and we can grow neural pathways to accept more happiness. But when bad things happen, the gift is and what do we do with that. And what do we learn from that. And how can we use that. So I've learned to recognize Alex without taking away from anything I suffered. Is there I wouldn't be able to fulfill my purpose on this planet had I not gone through what I did.

Alex Ferrari 21:27
That is a very evolved soul speaking right now, because it takes a special kind of person to accept that. And I think all of us, as we get older, we look back at the things that happen to us, the bad and the good, but specifically the bad and traumatic that without it, we wouldn't be who we are. These are the these are the obstacles. These are the things that make us grow. I mean, as I say that out loud, I'm like, my god, you went through such a horrific thing. I don't, I mean, what's, what was the point of it? And you're just saying it. The point of is, now you are helping, you know, people around the world, you know, hopefully, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people will watch this, and that will be a, a a kind of ripple effect from this conversation for years to to come that could help somebody going through this.

Gloria Masters 22:28
Yeah, look, and I'm not being insincere when I say it, but I've had to learn. I've had to learn the hard way. Alex, it doesn't mean I didn't have, or don't have self compassion and grace, but it just meant they were still winning, or the evil was on top, if I couldn't find a way to work through, understand and try and overcome and then use it and and in the using of it, it's not even something I can control. It's the very deep spiritual part of me. Do this, do this, do this. I've got to do this work. It's my purpose.

Alex Ferrari 23:18
When you say spiritual, What? What? What did you gravitate to? What teachings Did you gravitate to? What? Or was it just something that you found within yourself?

Gloria Masters 23:27
Well, it's interesting because I believe it's always there for us. And when people look outside of themselves, I always want to caution that you may find things outside of you, but there's always an agenda attached me, included with anything that is shared and then assimilated. For me, what I often think and wish for everybody is stop going outside and start to look within. That is where the answer is, that is where the truth lies. So I was grateful. You see, I was I'm so glad I had angels around me, and I knew the ethereal nature and the gentleness and the softness and the light is what lifted me. So on those days, it wasn't feet I had, it was wings that were carrying and, well,

Alex Ferrari 24:26
Let me ask you. I mean, this is an obvious question, because it's the first thing that pops into my head is, how did you get over the anger? Did you have anger, or did you just, did you just skip right through the anger? It goes straight to the pain, like, how, you know, if you did have anger, how did you overcome it? And how did you overcome the idea of revenge? Of vengeance, you know, I mean it. That's, I have to believe that crossed your mind at one point or another.

Gloria Masters 24:57
Of course. And look, you are talking to. Human being who also happens to be an Earth Angel. But there you go. No, of course. Look, it took me a long, long time. I it, you know, it's been over 30 years since I started dealing with this. And the, you know, the grief is a cycle, and I felt anger at times, but you see, whenever I tried to speak out as a child and teenage, or even trying to deal with my family who wouldn't believe me, I ended up using my voice and trying to be as gentle as I could around it, but I was so often slammed down that if I started to get angry, the consequences were dangerous for me. So I learned from quite a young age to just be compliant, to just be the carer, to just be everything I could be to keep everybody happy, and that was a very big conditioning. It's only been in the last five or so years with a therapist I see who said to me, much like you, where's the anger? What's happened with the anger? And I go, Oh, no, I don't need to feel angry? Well, she did some work with me. Put it this way, you wouldn't have wanted to be a driver on the road for the next six months when I was in the car. But yes, it did surface, and I did try to manage it. But I also had to accept that actually, anger is as healthy as an emotion as joy or happiness or peacefulness, or, you know, curiosity. And I had to learn to assimilate that because my father and brother, who was also a very big abuser of mine, very evil man. What was I was always terrified around them. They were much bigger than me, but they were very, very, very vitriolic and vitriolic and rage filled. So Alex, anger had never felt safe now I'm there.

Alex Ferrari 27:25
You've embraced your you've embraced your inner Liam Neeson, yeah, that's that's watching you, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's an important thing, because so many people that go through trauma, there is a lot of anger that they don't deal with, and they just shove it down as part with the trauma. So when it all comes boiling up, it's a lot to deal with. What advice do you have for people who this might trigger something by watching this, this might crack that dam that they've held, you know, sealed for 20 years, 30 years, a lifetime, even. And all of this is going to come out, rushing out. It's not even a controlled release, and like when you go into a therapist, it's a control. It seems at least somewhat of a controlled release. What happened to you was not it was just like and it all came in, and you just had to handle it on a psychological and emotional and spiritual standpoint. So what advice would you have for someone who is about to or is going through this recollection, this this flood of anger and and trauma that they're dealing with.

Gloria Masters 28:43
Well, I think it may, may may surprise the audience, but accept it. It is there to teach you and to help you. The worst thing you can do is block it or stop it, or try and remonstrate with it about go away. It's not good for me, that will then come back in ways you don't even want to imagine. It won't leave you alone until eventually you get hit over the head with a piece of four by two, because it's coming for you, and you're going to have to manage it. So best advice, accept it, breathe through it, and then ask it what it has to teach you, if you allow it to embody you, you then the trajectory it takes tapers off and it's gone more quickly than if you try and block and stop. It's healthy. We need it. We just need to learn ways to manage it so we don't hurt ourselves or others.

Alex Ferrari 29:43
You have, you've, we were talking before you came on about the hand signs for kids. Yeah, thing that you were talking about. Can we talk a little bit about what the what this is, and how important it is to teach our children and and. And anybody who's in trouble this sign,

Gloria Masters 30:02
Yeah, thank you. So this was first coined in northern Canada in, I think, 2020, when the first lockdowns occurred across the globe, and it was for women who were being domestically abused and trapped in the house. And so you would see the sign last year through the foundation, I run the charitable foundation called handing the shame back, which is what adult survivors do, Alex, when they find their voice finally about their abuses. Hand handing the shame back, speaking, and I realize we have a lot of young people and children who are still being sexually abused and trafficked, and that what I know to be true is that children don't speak of this. Only five to 10% will ever find the words. But what children can't do is hide behavior and hide what their body is doing. So I repurposed it, reached out across to northern Canada and and said, Look, I'd like to use it. Yes, go ahead. So this is now for children under 16 to use, and we know it's being used across the world. You cited an example. I've got people in New Zealand who have reached out and seen it being used in schools. We've got people all across the globe who reach out and say, I saw it, I saw it, and they're able to do something with it. Because my question becomes, who's going to save the kids? Alex, if not you, then who?

Alex Ferrari 31:37
Yeah, I was I was telling you, before we came on, that I was aware of this sign. My children know the sign as well, that we saw it on a news, on the news that there was a child, I can think we've been kidnapped, and he was and she was on in the in on the highway, and this other, this other car drove up next to her, and they pulled out the phone, and she just went like this, and she kept going like this to them, and they didn't, what is that? What is that? At the time, they didn't know what it was, but there was something on. So the lady looked up that hand sign, and they discovered that that meant that she was in trouble. Help me? Yeah, and she called the police. The police pulled pulled it over and save the child so that that signal is that hand signal, and for people listening, it's all four fingers covering your thumb as your thumb goes underneath. You could, you could look at it on on YouTube. It is such an important and powerful tool, because you can't say things in public when you're in that situation, but you can sneak a hand. You can signal pretty quickly.

Gloria Masters 32:47
And I love that you brought that up because it was only the other day I went and saw a chiropractor, and we were talking about the hand sign, and he said, it's interesting. He said, When he has children or teenagers in the room, the parents think he's looking at the bodies of the children. He's not. He's always looking at the hand to see if they're signing

Alex Ferrari 33:07
Really, really.

Gloria Masters 33:09
Can you imagine if we had this on billboards across the world?

Alex Ferrari 33:13
This is such a this is such a massive, massive problem. But I have, I have hope, because there seems to be a lot more awareness now with that film sound, I think sounds of freedom. And, you know, all the the the Epstein thing that happened, you know, these things are starting to come out now. And is in its that was not the case 10 years ago. 20 years ago, it was never,

Gloria Masters 33:42
Yeah, 100% right. I didn't. I did interview Paul Hutchinson, who was the chief producer on sound, sound of freedom, and he and I both agreed the vast majority of children who are sex trafficked across the world sleep in their own beds at night. So Alex, we've got to get over the fact this is happening in streets around you. We know that by in our country, and not dissimilar, I'm sure, to yours, but the time a girl is 16, one and three and one in five boys will have been sexually abused. So this is bigger than we think we there's more and more being uncovered, and we just need to be mindful that for our young people, they're being targeted. They're being targeted through through things like Snapchat, Instagram, Tiktok, and they don't know it, because what the predators do is take on the persona of a same age child. But you know, just just be aware, parents and safe adults, please that not everything is as it seems, and we need to. Teach Kids some tools, some body safety rules and some ways to keep themselves safe so they can let adults around them know when things aren't right.

Alex Ferrari 35:12
You, what you just said was such a powerful statement that most children who are sex trafficked sleep in their beds at night. That's that is absolutely terrifying, because I think the image in the public's eye is films like taken films like sounds of freedom, the you know, the very and those exist. That situation exists. But that is not the majority of what's happening. The majority is actually what happened to you, family, sex trafficking, their child or their sex trafficking, their sex sexual abuse, two different things, similar, but different. But what what happened to you is not just something, not just sexual abuse. It was sex trafficking. When you said that, I was leased out, you know, to groups. I mean, when you say that, I think of a car, you lease a car. You don't lease a human being. I can't even, I can't even comprehend the the being a father and doing that to your child, I can't, I just can't even process it, you know. It gets me angry. It gets me sad. I can't process that, you know, I can process taken that there's a, you know, or squid games, or something like that, which is like these rich, you know, guys with masks, and they're all, you know, all that kind of creepy stuff, you know, I get that, or they're Epstein Island, or that I that I kind of can wrap my head around, but that your your parents, the people that brought you into this world, that your loved ones do this to you, is, is something that is so, so, so difficult for me to understand,

Gloria Masters 37:03
Yeah, and unfortunately, over 93% of sexual abuse of children and young people is by someone well known to them And or their family. So rip you around there.

Alex Ferrari 37:23
I have to ask you, because it's, it's something else in this subject has come out recently is the the whole P Diddy thing here in the States, which is explosive, to say the least. And you know, there isn't anything out there that's rock solid just yet, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence being talked about. And you know, Hollywood and all of that. And you know, when you hear these stories, you like how, how could this go on for decades, in plain sight, not even like hidden in a dark alley somewhere or in a dungeon somewhere like this was parties you know, people coming in after midnight. Everyone you know who's not an adult has to leave. Like these kind of when this that story broke. What did you think? What is your feeling on that whole, that whole thing that he's got going on?

Gloria Masters 38:26
Yeah, look, I think two things. One, this child sexual abuse and trafficking is not new. This has been happening since time began. What people struggle with. And I think the reason people struggle is this thing I call cognitive dissonance. So Alex, the reason it's known but never really talked about is because it goes against good people's ethics, values and morals. And like you just said you can't even get your How could a father do that? So for most good people, they turn away because, no, that can't happen. And by the way, that child's always but misbehaving. So I think they're naughty and they're probably lying, which is what you how you would have described me. But what people didn't realize was it's a cry for help. And so the cognitive dissonance is one reason. But I also think, yes, I believe it to be true. Because, you know, I'm thinking about the children among the people that have come forward, that were children at the time of boy as young as nine, who was promised by P Diddy that he would get him into the music scene. He just didn't realize the cost to him would be, you know, another girl who was included on a beat laid out with other children as party favors for some of these celebrities and. And some of the people that did take part in it, you know, there, there are talks of, you know, they were heavily drugged. I don't care, it still happened. But the other thing I would love to know, what you think, Alex as well, is there were people there who did, who did not take part in that, but they observed it. What's your view on their complicity in this?

Alex Ferrari 40:28
Well, I mean, the me too movement kind of really broke open a lot of that complicity thing. I mean, you know, I I'd heard in my travels, in my travels, going through Hollywood when I was a young man. I was in my 20s, and I was invited to a lot of these big rooms with the big producers and the big movie stars. And I would just hear things. I would hear things about certain actors that that would be like, I'm sorry, what you know, I still remember. I still remember. I won't say his name, but we were, you know, I almost did a movie for the mafia when I was 27 and $20 million movie. So I had a gangster threatening my life on a daily basis for a year, one of the more traumatic things I've ever had to go through in my life. But when I was flown out to LA and I met a lot of these big celebrities and agents and all this kind of stuff. I over, I literally was hearing an agent, an agent like this actor's agent, says, Hey, this actor, he really wants to be in your movie. He'd love to meet with you, but I have to kind of warn you about something. You know, when he meets guys, he just likes to grab them in the balls. That's the way he says hello, and, and I was, I was just like, what? And, of course, my gangster doesn't play that, so we never got to meet. He goes, If he touches me, I'll throw him through a window. Kind of, he was an old school, old school gangster. But I'd heard these stories, and I'd heard a lot of them, so when the me toomovement happened, I saw it. But things like Harvey Weinstein, the complicit, like it was so complicit, the entire town knew. The entire town knew about that. Everybody knew about everybody knew about Harvey, but yet no one ever did anything. So same thing happened.

Gloria Masters 42:22
I wouldn't. Yeah, so what does that tell us, if no one even did anything? Is it self preservation? Is it I want to be I'm scared of what have you might do to me if i

Alex Ferrari 42:36
Oh, when they're that powerful. Same thing with P Diddy. He was so powerful in because he had so much dirt on so many people that he was basically a mob. He was a mobster. He was he was a he was the godfather. So he would just, you know, he's acting like a mafioso, essentially, not a music producer. So people were terrified. So if they did see something, they're not going to say anything, because they didn't want anything to happen. So it's so it's fascinating,

Gloria Masters 43:05
But this and that, everything you've said, If we extrapolate that out and project it onto 16 and unders, the children that were being abused, people knew nothing was said. So we, we need to start holding mirrors up high is society.

Alex Ferrari 43:23
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the stuff that look there's, there's certain musicians, young musicians and young pop stars who were in his circle that I'm just terrified to think about. What happened to those, those kids when they were kids, they're adults now, but what happened to them, what they've dealt with to get to where they are? Hollywood is one of those places that, and this is not news. I mean, you I mean, there was a documentary on on the sexual abuse of of kid stars on Nickelodeon, and a Disney Channel, and these kind of things, the pedophiles, all that stuff. This is not a new thing, but the light that's being placed on it is, and it's something that is something that's really, really important to put out there. But I love that you're saying that, like, what about the people who saw that and did nothing? Well, that's something that they're going to have to live with. They're gonna have to live with that because it's either because it was self preservation, or I don't want to get involved, or it's not my problem, or any of that stuff. I get it. I understand all of that stuff, especially in Hollywood when you your career is everything, and there's one person who could literally make a phone call and you're done and you're done. It's happened. There's happened. There's an Oscar winner out there right now who has not worked because she crossed somebody, not on the sexual stuff, but just in general. So it happens. I get it, I get it, but it's some things are more.

Gloria Masters 44:52
I know it's just, it's just Alex. I'm sure you would agree, and I'm sure your audience would children can't save themselves. They need us. Agreed, agreed. They need us. And in the non action, there is action because the action is choosing not to act. Sorry, there's a choice that person made, a choice I saw. I may have hated it, but I stayed. You chose mate, you chose buddy then, yeah.

Alex Ferrari 45:25
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that whatever happens with that case, the Diddy case, I think it's going to be a nuclear bomb going off, because it's not just Hollywood, it's music industry, it's business, it's financial CEOs, it's everything. Because he, I mean, he's been throwing parties for 25 years. You know, all of these kind of things for for 25 years. He's been doing this since the 90s. So you mean to tell me how many people walk through those doors. How many people were at one of these, these infamous parties at one point or another, it's going to be, it's going to be, I think, a needed nuclear bomb kind of going off in, in, in this, in this, this unfortunate thing that happens the world. It's the kind of light that needs to be shined on this. And I think a case like his will do that if it if, if, if it's allowed out, I think there might be, there might be some hope in this, but they have 1000s of hours of tape, 1000s of hours that they got, so unless they're covering it up or they won't release it. But I have a feeling that there's some there's some names that don't want to come out. That's for sure.

Gloria Masters 46:52
I bet there are. But you have to ask yourself, you mentioned Epstein, Epstein before, yeah, do you think while you and I still drawing breathe. The names will ever be released, because I don't think they're ever going to be released.

Alex Ferrari 47:04
No, in the absent case, that's what it's

Gloria Masters 47:07
Yeah. So the message is, kids and teenagers, you are have no value here. You may have been abused, you may have been exploited, your lives may have been ruined, but you are of no value here, because these megalomaniacs the ones who more or seen as more important, but equally, Alex, they're being protected. Now. That's the corruption, and that's that's the stuff we need to be aware of. Because, you know, when I think about it, the cost to us globally, not talking fiscal, I'm talking spiritually and and mentally is just horrendous. We're living in an age where, as I quoted to you, one in three girls and one in five boys are experiencing this. It the numbers aren't decreasing. My question is, where's the noise? If this was motor motor vehicle accidents, what do you think would be happening?

Alex Ferrari 48:10
Oh, God, it'd be lawsuits everywhere. Everybody would have you like, you can't get into that car. You're killing people, left, right, of course, couldn't. But you know, Gloria at the end of the day, it's it, you know, we live in a capitalistic world, and money is the thing that drives this planet, and they're going to save and protect and put money of above children, above women, above men, above humans, because it's about money, which infuriates me and so many levels, because it's just like, you can't take it with you. Man, this is not the way to do. This is not the way you come that's not what you do when you come down here. And I don't know it just It upsets me to my core, is it's something that I can't really again, wrap my head around, but I'm so glad that we're able to have these this kind of conversation and get this thing out there. What, what Tell me about your your organization, and what you're trying to do for people?

Gloria Masters 49:16
Thank you. So look it two parts to it. It's called handingtheshameback.org. As I said, that's what we as survivors do when we find our voice, because the shame never belonged to us. Belong to the adult who chose to abuse us. So every time a survivor speaks or shares, they're handing the shame back. So we, we do. I provide a lot of resource and content for survivors, it's all free, just so that they have a safe place to land and and a way to get some information which may help lift them and support them and have them feel less alone. The other branch of that is the Child Protection and Advocacy. Me, and that's where the hand sewn comes in, and that's where that third book keeping kids safe comes in, and in there are a whole lot of techniques and ideas for safe adults to use to educate their own children. Not a book for children to read, it's a book for parents to sit down with, or teachers to teach about. Cause a lot of children and teenagers don't know that they can say no, or that their body belongs to them, or that if they feel unsafe, there are things they can do. You know, for instance, one of the one of the chapters in the book is, is tools for parents. And in there, I've got as an example, sit down with the kids. Sit down with the girls one night, have a pizza dinner and say, right, we're going to vote on an emoji. If ever you're not here and you're feeling unsafe or there's potential for that abuse, and you're just not getting a good vote. Send us an emoji. No words needed. We will stop, drop and drive. We're going to come and get you. And you've gone from that place now for younger children, you know, the family might vote. Might be a teddy bear emoji for teenagers, whatever's current. But the point is, you don't have to use words so that the predator or the house they're in are not aware of what's going on. But all they'll know is there's a knock at the door and you'll say, Oh, forgot, we gotta go to grandma's first thing in the morning. Come on, girls, we're out of there. We're out of here, or, you know, but again, simple little tips, techniques and tricks, to help educate the children and teenagers in our lives, so at least they've got something. Because at the moment, parents don't know what's going on. You know, we talked about child sex trafficking. People don't believe this happens in their street. You know, it might be that Uncle John turned up, stayed for a few hours, Mum and Dad went home. What we may not realize is, Uncle John had paid, you know, his brother or his sister 100 bucks to spend an hour with the teenager, you know. And the thing is, I hate to be graphic, but it's true. So all of this, I decided it's time to come full circle, Alex and just give people some information so they can disseminate it and then be able to use it so they are more prepared. You know, we get people here in New Zealand had a family contact and say, really stressed. My nephew's been been at school, and he's now suspended because a group of older kids were playing an online game together. Said to him, You gotta do something to a girl at school this age might have been an eight year old, and then send us an image. And if you don't, we're going to share that photo of you that you know you had taken for us, and we're going to spread it round everywhere. So we call that sex torsion. Now there's a lot of this happening. There's a lot of things, safe people, safe adults, good people don't even know exist. It's a part of the book keeping kids safe. It's it's a road map, actually, for parents, teachers and others. So at least then once you know you can't not know,

Alex Ferrari 53:47
That's great advice. That's really great advice. Do you have any tips or advice for someone who's feeling overwhelmed with their healing journey of healing their trauma?

Gloria Masters 54:00
Yes. Look, I think it comes down to self grace and self compassion is survivors. We're used to feeling wrong, that somehow it was our fault, that there's some guilt we we misplace. So self loathing is usually in there, somewhere in the top five emotions we feel. So I think being kind to self, and if you can swap it out with what you might say or how you would treat your best friend who was sharing your story, sharing their story with you,

Alex Ferrari 54:36
If there's one message, you'd like everyone to listen, listening. Take away about healing and survival, what would it be?

Gloria Masters 54:42
There's always hope. Even if there feels like there's none, there's hope. And I know that to be true, because I had to find that.

Alex Ferrari 54:55
Now, Gloria, I'm going to ask you the same same questions ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Gloria Masters 55:03
I think one where you can be authentically you, and one where joy is a feature in every day of your life. Too often, I think we get it round the wrong way and put all our energy into work and commitments and forget that joy can be found in having a laugh with the kids over breakfast, or noticing that that dog just banged into a wall. Whatever silliness you have, the joy within, finding the child within, I think, in experiencing that is sign of a fulfilled life.

Alex Ferrari 55:47
You had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Gloria. What advice would you give her?

Gloria Masters 55:52
You're a hero, and just never, ever doubt the beautiful spirit you had and that they didn't kill it. It was one thing they couldn't get. So stand strong and stand proud.

Alex Ferrari 56:07
How do you define God or Source?

Gloria Masters 56:10
Within. It's not outside of you. It always lies within. Just tapping into it helps.

Alex Ferrari 56:21
What is love?

Gloria Masters 56:22
I think it's that feeling of everything that we embrace that lights us up, but feels potentially available to everybody, because it is.

Alex Ferrari 56:37
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Gloria Masters 56:39
To be who you are, living your purpose, what you have a unique

Alex Ferrari 56:47
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world.

Gloria Masters 56:51
Thank you. So handingtheshame back.org, and gloriamasters.com,

Alex Ferrari 56:57
And Gloria do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Gloria Masters 57:00
Just that, if in doubt, do something. But I just like to read a at the final quote out of the book, keeping kids safe, if I may, because I think it's been it's very powerful. Whose job is it to protect children? She asked, not mine said one, not my problem, said another, the question then becomes, if not you, then who?

Alex Ferrari 57:26
Gloria thank you so much for this conversation. I really do hope that this does help people listening around the world for many, many years to come. And I appreciate you and everything that you're doing to help awaken and help this planet and this and this and our consciousness. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much.

Gloria Masters 57:46
Thank you. Thank you for your wonderful interview.