The TOP FOODS That STOP You From LOSING Belly FAT! (Weight Loss Mistakes) with Dr. William Davis, MD

Alex Ferrari 0:09
I'd like to welcome to the show Dr. William Davis. How you doin Dr. William?

Dr. William Davis 0:13
Hi Alex I'm great!

Alex Ferrari 0:16
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I am. I am excited to talk to you today because I know many of us love bread and love wheat and we products. And, you know, I wanted to kind of get into the science, a little bit of what it does to us and what's going on. And you are definitely the foremost expert on that. And we're also going to be talking about your new book, The Super Gut, which I have also recently discovered the power of the gut. And in that in the focus of having a healthy flora and prebiotic probiotic post biotic all that kind of stuff that can help with an eye. It's really changed my life. But we'll talk about Super Gut in a little bit. But first, what made you decide to write your best selling book Wheat Belly?

Dr. William Davis 1:04
It all started oddly Alex with my effort to put a stop to coronary disease. So what I was doing is going back now 25 30 years, I worked in the cath lab, aborting heart attacks, putting stents in doing angioplasty, excimer, laser blue, all that stuff. Yeah. And then my mom in New Jersey, where I grew up, died of sudden cardiac death, just about four months after her two vessel coronary angioplasty. Well, so i Qi died of a disease that I managed every day. And so it was a vivid illustration to me just how silly it was, how fruitless how dangerous, it was to try to manage a disease like coronary disease, and a cath lab. So I wanted to find a way to help people like my mom, identify trouble, you know, two years, five years, 10 years before it became a real threat, and then maybe find some way of taking action. So that was when I brought the first CT heart scanner to Wisconsin, one of the first in the Midwest, very early days, 25 years ago or so. And we started scanning people left and right what this device does, and it still, it become only now it's only now 25 years later, it's becoming very popular. It's always trying to make money, which is so ridiculous. We're trying to screen people for early heart disease. And these are people like you and me, we're going about our business going to work, going to school, going for a jog going for a bike ride, feeling fine. These are not people in the ER with chest pain, neck, and this, these are asymptomatic everyday people when you look for hidden coronary disease, and we score it by something called a coronary calcium score, only because when you have atherosclerotic plaque 20% of the volume, this is a fairly standard rule 20% of the volumes occupied by calcium, we can use that measure calcium is easy to do. And we can calculate how much plaque you have. And so normally zero, no plaque at all. Any number above zero is increasingly more plaque. And so people come through, like a business guy come through is 52 years old. He says, oh, you know, my dad had a heart attack at age 59 And my Zed my future, I'm 52. He has a scan his scores, let's say 500. But he freaks out. Of course, if he does nothing, we help publish these data. If you did nothing, which of course is stupid. Your score goes up 25% per year. So 25 years ago, people say well, what should I do? Well, it's at baby aspirin, high dose statin drugs like Lipitor, 40 milligrams, low fat diet, low saturated fat diet, exercise program, maybe some other things like beta blockers, etc. And then we help policies. How fast is a score go up now. 25% per year has zero impact on this measure. Even though my colleagues Alex to this day that call it optimal medical therapy. It's like putting sugar in your gas tank and call it optimal fuel. It's ridiculous. But that's the best they have the best they have hardly does anything at all. Well, people are freaking out. Right. So unfortunately, a lot of my colleagues took advantage of this, they still do to this day, oh, you need the real test, a heart catheterization, maybe some preventive stents or bypass which is malpractice. But Alex, it's done every day preventive stents done all the time, Donald? Oh, the science is clear. There's no benefit. If you take someone like you and me, I say Oh, you got a blockage. We put a stent in well, I did you no favors because does not reduce your future heart attack or other heart problems. So that's done because it pays so well. Well, this makes me angry. I tried to find new ways. Now it took some time, zigzagging trial and error, but it led to some very important Since, like the importance of vitamin D, when when I added vitamin D, and this is years ago, was the first time I saw coronary calcium scores rubbin go up 25% per year drop, I mean plummet. At first, I didn't believe it. I went back to the scans of compare them pre post. Yeah, not only had the calcium plaques shrunk, you can kind of see some of the contours of the other software elements. They shrunk also, so Wow. But he also looked for other ways to give people advantages. And one of the things I did was reject this ridiculous idea that cholesterol causes heart disease and reducing cholesterol reduces your risk of heart disease. There's a germ of proven but it's mostly garbage. It's outdated. It's it should have been abandoned years ago, there's a better class of tests. It's called lipoproteins testing, not cholesterol as an indirect gauge of those particles, lipoproteins. Actually looking at the lipoproteins themselves, their number per volume, their shot, their shape, their size, you can do this, and I did it. And we became clear that virtually everybody with coronary disease had an excess of small LDL particles, not LDL cholesterol, the indirect measure the actual particles, small LDL particles well back then, I asked Well, what causes that and the science was clear, even 20 Some years ago, science out of University California, Berkeley, Hopkins, Samantha University, Texas, and grains and sugars, wheat grains and sugars. The only common foods that cause small so I asked my pay or these patient I said, Hey, let's try it. You know, your your statin drugs don't do anything as hard as I think let's try this. They do it. Small LDL particles often start at like 1800 or 2400 Nano moles per liter particle count per volume. They go wheat grain sugar free drops to zero or some other very low numbers, not just a mutt it's it's a dramatic improvement often eradication. But this is when people start coming back and they say I don't understand why they lose 73 pounds. Why didn't my blood sugar drop so much? I had to stop the Metformin the insulin, and my hemoglobin a wouldn't see dropped from 12.7% that long term measure of blood sugar. It's now down to 5.3%. I'm no longer a diabetic. What? Why do I have to stop my three blood pressure medicines? I was so lightheaded. Why is my also Clyde is so much better off than biologic injection that cost me $4,000 out of pocket every month. In other words, I started seeing I had stumbled out, I didn't do because I thought it would cure all human disease. I did it because I just wanted to eradicate small LDL particles and people who had cardiac calcium scores and we're scared for their future.

Alex Ferrari 7:44
So I have to ask you a question. Why is it that the medical establishment is so is so uneducated in nutrition? I heard I hear that in medical school, they barely get a two or three hour lecture on nutrition. When please remind me the doctor, the Greek who created medicine, Hippocrates? Yes, He literally says, he literally said that the pharmacy is in the food of the healing is in food or medicine is full of food be thy medicine. Thank you. That's what that Thank you. Thank you so much. So articulately, saying whatever I was stumbling across. Um, but yeah, but that so it was at the beginning. And I know there's profit. I know, there's pharmaceutical companies, I know, there's money you just said like the stands and things like that. I know. It's, you know, health for business. But even then, I'm assuming most doctors get into this business, not to just make money. And I know many I have a lot of doctors in my family. It is not as what it used to be in the 70s and 80s, you can make a really good living as a doctor now you've got a hartsel hard fight with insurance companies. So it's not even about the money anymore. But when I talk to my doctor, relatives, and I go, do you guys not understand about nutrition? Do you not understand about this and you understand about vitamin therapy, and they're like, oh, that's all kind of like magical, who hot kind of stuff? Why is that in your opinion, you being a doctor?

Dr. William Davis 9:14
You know, as you point out, there's there's a list of reasons, external pressures from health insurers. The you know, when we discharge a patient, say from the hospital after a heart attack, the hospital actually runs through a checklist of drugs that the patient they insist are on baby aspirin, beta blocker, ace inhibitor, statin drug and on and on other words, the practices on was dictated by the by big pharma the practices of Big Pharma to a large degree, Big Pharma has had its hand reached into so many areas of human behavior health, that the doctors are also guilty of that they've allowed Big Pharma to control their behavior. It's hard to fight Big Pharma. They are a gargantuan business with deep reach and Congress into the Senate. So they set the pace for a lot of things. There's also unfortunately, this kind of willful ignorance. If I do something in medicine and pays me $3,000 Every time I do it, like inject an AI with a certain drug, or implant three stents, or replace a knee somebody, and then I find out there's some nutritional or natural means of doing something similar, it's not as harmful nor expensive. I kind of ignore it. And so is willful ignorance. So they'll say things like, oh, Alex, Did you consult Dr. Google again, or be completely unaware. And even you know, vitamin D that we were talking about isn't really a spectacularly effective nutrient, that we are supposed to get from sun exposure. But we live in doors were close over a lot of surface area, and many of us lose the capacity of active vitamin D as we get older. But it's so powerful. You think the doctors would be experts in managing your vitamin D. They're not their rank amateurs. At best. They mismanaged it all the time. So there's this willful ignorance, they look at new trends nutrition as is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, everything in moderation, move more, eat less all this stupid things I say that do not work. But you know what, it's my view, all doctors should be experts in nutrition, in nutrients, and the microbiome, because if they were first schooled in that stuff, and then everything else comes second, joint replacement, coronary stents, carotid endarterectomy, etc, the world would be a hugely healthier place, and the health care bill else will be cut from $3 trillion a year to some much smaller number. But there's not enough profit net and profit meaning the transfer of wealth and people like you and me into the pockets of someone to doctors, healthcare systems, Big Pharma, and the medical device industry.

Alex Ferrari 11:58
Yeah, and you know, a lot of people when I talk about this stuff, I'm not against modern medicine. If I get shot, don't rub a leaf on me. Like, there's not a natural cure for being shot. You know, there's, if there's an emergency, absolutely, but long term care is where I see there is obviously some benefit, depending, but there seems to always be some sort of either natural way, or at least some other way that you can work something out to see if it helps, because I've just been I've been around a long time, I've talked to a lot of different health professionals over the over the course, modern medicine, VRE, and also, you know, herbal vitamin, their vitamin therapy, I've dug into vitamin theory a whole lot. I mean, vitamin D, we are all pretty much deficient in vitamin D, unless you're taking a 5000 Ibu supplement every day, I just did my blood work. And they're like, your vitamin D is really low. And it's such an important vitamin to have in your life. Correct? Oh, absolutely. Top of the list. It's like one of the most important things people are like, Oh, vitamin C, vitamin C, like, Yeah, that's fine. Vitamin C is water soluble, and we'll call you when it's great. You need it. Vitamin D is one of those things that we don't get very easily from, from our foods and, and things like that. And I've been vegetarian vegan for about 10 years. And people always ask, well, how are you going to get your Vitamin D 12? And I'm like, from the algae that or how are you going to get the omega from the algae that your fish are eating, that you're taking the fish oils from? I'm killing the middleman out, and just taking getting. So there's always if you educate yourself a little bit here and there, you can really find ways to try to take the best care of yourself as possible. And that's why I was so drawn to your work as well. Now, do you do want to talk a little bit about wheat? What is the inflammation and inflammation, inflammatory part of wheat in your body? Because inflammation is essentially the cause of most diseases and in the world. Am I Is that a fair fair statement?

Dr. William Davis 14:05
Yeah, it's a big player. Inflammation is a big player in a lot of diseases from obesity to cancer to neuro degenerative disorders. Absolutely, Alex! Well, there's a number of things. One of the things that farmers and agribusiness scientists did, so that not that they're evil. And they did this for their own purposes, like increase yield per acre, or resistance to pests like insects and mold. So one of the things they did was there are two components in in wheat that are pest resistant, and that is a protein called wheat germ agglutinin. And another one called phytates. Well, wheat germ agglutinin is very good at pest resistance. So farmers chose strains of wheat that were enriched in both wheat germ agglutinin phytates. Not recognizing that we term a gluten is a very potent bowel toxin to humans, thereby causing intestinal inflammation, and phytates are bind all positively charged minerals like magnesium, manganese, calcium, iron and zinc and you poop it out. Now that's not necessarily inflammatory, but the wheat or gluten is very inflammatory. So that's one thing. Another thing is the glide in protein. People say gluten, but it's really the glide in protein within wheat, that's been dramatically changed and it's inflammatory properties have been increased. So gliding works in two major ways. One is itself a bowel toxin, that opens the barrier, the intestinal so called intestinal leakiness, you can actually measure this you can actually measure before and after consumption of wheat, something called Zonulin, which is a protein that goes up in your bloodstream, when you consume the glide in protein wheat, because it opens the barriers between intestinal cells. So when that happens, you increase body wide inflammation. There's also amylopectin, a in wheat mo pectinase, the unique carbohydrate of wheat, that is the Jested to sugar faster than table sugar. And so when you eat, let's say, two slices of whole wheat bread, your blood sugar goes up higher than it would with tea, six teaspoons of table sugar. So every time you have a sandwich, or a bagel, or pancakes, or pasta, you have a big rise in blood sugar, well, that rise in blood sugar is followed by a rise in insulin. That's the process that leads to insulin resistance. And that couple of inflammation, those two very nasty duo, because the underlying cancers, coronary disease, hypertension, dementia, on an on many, many diseases, and also that rise in blood sugar and insulin grows visceral fat, that's the fat around your waist, and also in circles, organs, and that's inflammatory fat. And so if you biopsy visceral fat, you look like pus it's full of neutrophils or white blood cells. And visceral fat is known to release numerous inflammation mediators, proteins, like interleukin six and looking at one beta TNF alpha. And so wheat and grains are perfectly crafted to cause inflammation and insulin resistance and weight gain. And so they're hard. They're, they're horrible foods, yet they are the basis for all dietary guidelines and dietary advice.

Alex Ferrari 17:23
So what foods should we be eliminating?

Dr. William Davis 17:25
So this is all foods, my view made with wheat, especially modern wheat, so this modern wheat is something very different. Also, I hadn't mentioned that. So traditional wheat would be a four and a half foot five foot tall plant that we all recognize from when we were kids. But modern wheat is now an 18 inch tall, so called semi dwarf strains. And it's short, real fixed stalk real thick seeds, a real long seed head. So they dramatically change the plant for increased yield, not for evil purpose. But when you change something so dramatically, you change the effects on humans who consume it, potentially. And they what they did was amplify a lot of the adverse effects wheat germ, agglutinin, phytates, and the glide and some other factors also. And so anything made of wheat. Now, we don't think of grasses this way. That's what grains are. They're seeds of grasses, but they're very promiscuous. And they breed with each other and share genetics. So right started out as a weed in wheat fields, wild wheat fields. And so right over the centuries acquired a lot of the genetics of wheat. So even though they taste and smell differently, different, the genetics are almost identical. Likewise, barley overlaps a lot corn, like the Z and protein of corn is a lot like the glide in protein, by the way, Alex, so all those people with celiac disease told to eat gluten free foods were the primary ingredients often corn starch, corn starch contaminated by the Z and protein. So it's an instance where ignorance and diet by my colleagues yesterday are all just as make sure you eat gluten free foods, not recognizing that many of them will have occurrences other celiac disease from gluten free foods and gluten free foods are just plain awful, because they raise blood sugar and insulin and sky high because they've made a corn starch, rice starch, tapioca starch, potato flour, just horrible replacements. But once again industry comes to your rescue to make money.

Alex Ferrari 19:23
So what bread is there a bread that you can eat out of out of something else? Is it like out of smells spelt or like all these other kind of grains? Is there anything else that we could eat if you love bread? You're killing You're killing me Doc doc You're killing me. Look we all everyone listening is like no like you mean no bread. I'm like I get it. Bread is so comfortable. It is tasty. You want to eat it as much as you can. Is there it can we make oat bread? Can we like is there some other kind of bread that we can consume?

Dr. William Davis 20:00
First of all, as I know of no way to make the seeds of grasses save for human consumption, whether we call it modern semi dwarf wheat, or spelt from Middle Ages, or einkorn wheat from pre biblical times the first wild wheat that humans first consumed, or Emmer wheat of the Bible, no matter what you do, it has adverse effects. Modern wheat just has been amplified in its adverse effects. So here's a question. What happened to the first humans 12,000 years ago in the Middle East when they first figured out how to consume wild wheat that was einkorn wheat, which by the way, is a 14 chromosome plant that illustrates this how far things have drifted modern wheat is a 42 chromosome plant, you know, so in other words, humans have 46 chromosomes if you're if you're six foot seven man you have 46 chromosomes. If you're a five foot two woman you have 46 chromosomes. If you're from Mongolia, you have 46 chromosomes if you're from Canada, 46 chromosomes, but for runners of all week 14 chromosome einkorn modern trick messed up and week 42 chromosomes This is how far things have drifted off. But despite all that, when humans first consumed wild einkorn wheat, what happened to those people? Well, there was an explosion in tooth decay. Remarkably, Alex before paid people eight grains, there was almost no such thing as tooth decay was very uncommon. One to 3% of all teeth recovered prior to grains showed evidence of tooth decay, rot, abscess formation or misalignment of teeth. When grains were added 16 to 49% of all teeth showed rot, abscess formation misalignment. In other words, there was an explosion in tooth decay. Now, the lack of tooth decay, by the way, was at a time when there was no such thing as dental floss, fluoridated toothpaste, dentists, orthodontists, and yet there was almost no tooth decay, which makes sense if people live and they did, by the way, this fiction of all people live 23 years now, they lived off into 50 60 70 years old, but there's a lot of childhood mortality that skewed the lifespan of people. But people would live to 55 67 Whatever, with full mouth of teeth. Well, you know, if you're eating meats and tough things, nuts and hard fruit, you need teeth. And if you didn't have teeth, you're gonna die because you didn't have a blender back then. And so, uh, there was explosion of tooth decay, there was a doubling of knee arthritis, with consumption of grains, ancient grains, and then there was appearance of multiple deficiencies, but especially of iron that, by the way, has persisted. You'll see, by the way, lots of people iron deficiency nowadays, unresponsive to iron iron injections. Some get blood transfusions because their hemoglobin is so low that they're breathless and tired and cold all the time. These are mostly females, oddly, they go off grains and the phytates that bind iron, and they're anemia reversed within two weeks.

Alex Ferrari 23:07
So no, so what you're saying is no grains of any kind that includes oats that includes quinoa includes all of those kinds of grains, none of them we can can really ingest.

Dr. William Davis 23:19
Well, so this includes wheat, rye, spelt all different forms of wheat. einkorn Emmer includes corn, oatmeal, rice, millet, sorghum. These are all seeds of grasses. So quinoa is unrelated something different. So there's no way to take a seat of grass. So you know, if heaven forbid, you and your family were starving, hadn't eaten anything in two weeks. And you spy a field of wild wheat? Would you say to your family, hallelujah, we're going to eat like kings tonight? No. So it is testimony to the cleverness of humans that we figured out 12,000 years ago how to consume seeds of grasses, we first you have to isolate the seed as a husk, yet they grind it with the stones back then. And then he did it in water and a stone bowl and made a pirate she wasn't made too many 1000s of years laters late later that the Egyptians figured out how to make beer, and then they leavened bread with the beer. So that took many 1000s of years. But it is it is clever, but they did not know they were trading calories for long term degradation of health and now modern agribusiness. All they do is amplify all the problematic issues with with grants, including by the way back where we started heart disease. So small LDL particles are triggered to an extreme degree by the envelope pectin, a lot of wheat and grains you'll see that grain eating small LDL particles 2400 no grains zero. It's a dramatic effect.

Alex Ferrari 24:58
How about so so and also Rice like white rice, brown rice?

Dr. William Davis 25:02
Yeah, rice is mostly sugar starch, like 90% so that it's got that

Alex Ferrari 25:08
Even Brown, even brown rice?

Dr. William Davis 25:09
Even Brown is mostly starch. And put it has some other issues. It does have a little bit of wheat germ agglutinin. It's in rice, but it's it's identical to what's in in wheat. So it's called wheat germ agglutinin. It's not as much as in wheat, but it's that potent Bell toxin. If I give a milligram Alex of wheat germ agglutinin, I don't move on to spec to aurat, laboratory rat, it D News the entire GI tract, little hairs are ripped off just by that little bit. And the average American he eats healthy whole grains gets about 18 to 19 milligrams a week germ agglutinin is less than rice, though. But rice has also been identified very reluctantly, by the way by the USDA was there the USDA is not in the business of supporting consumer health. They're in the business of supporting agribusiness health. And of course, what they were reluctant to report was that our rice is a natural concentrator, so we can't blame agribusiness on this one. Rice is natural concentrator of arsenic. And so it's not quite clear just how big a deal this is, though it is clear such products as rice milk and children is very dangerous. So there have been episodes of chronic acute toxicity in parts of the world like Bangladesh, where there's also arsenic in the water. They eat a lot of rice. It's not quite clear, though. No one's done these studies yet, is arsenic consumption via rice, say a chronic toxin that leads to such things as let's say gastrointestinal cancers. So that's not been sorted out yet. So but it's back to this idea, Alex that there's there's no way you can shake and kick. The grade is no way to make them healthy.

Alex Ferrari 26:51
So even because I've read in some, some research that rice and beans combined, there is a balance there that is different if you just ate the rice by itself. I'm sure you're you're right. And I'm sure there's I'm sure you're gonna tell me yeah, maybe but you're still eating rice. And it's not canceling it out. But there is there are there are societies throughout the world that eat rice and beans. You know, I'm Cuban. So I was raised on rice and beans. So it's difficult for me to pull out. And beans. I'm assuming beans are okay at this point. Black beans.

Dr. William Davis 27:26
In fact, I think beans are fabulous. They're a great source of nutrients for your microbiome.

Alex Ferrari 27:32
Great. Sorry. So beans and then. So again, with everything we're saying is like, you know, if you if you cut out all of this stuff, yes, it's ideal not to have this stuff. We all can't be Tom Brady, who hasn't had a grain of sugar in 30 years. And that's why he's just unretired at 44 to go back into the NFL. Because he is he is definitely the exception to the rule. But at a certain point, like, Yeah, you should watch these things. But you can't. You know, when you're out in the world, if you want to have a slice of pizza, have a slice of pizza if you want to have this or that. But just keep things in not moderation, but just be aware of what you're eating, and the effects that it has on you. So if you have one piece of bread, once a week, or once a month or whatever, how much damage is it really going to do over the long haul? If everything else is doing well? I'm trying I'm really grasping at straws for the audience here, Doc. So I'm just trying to see if there's anything somewhere some hope for the audience.

Dr. William Davis 28:33
Well, as you as you know, everybody has has to make their own decision to probe for their own beliefs, ambitions, tolerances, etc. But several things that factor into your thinking. One is that small LDL particle effect. So one of the reasons why small LDL particles so nasty, is if you eat let's say, a bagel that contains the amylopectin a that triggers formation of small LDL particles, the small LDL particle, unlike the large LDL, the large LDL particles, your liver recognizes and clears out of your bloodstream very rapidly, less than 24 hours. The small LDL particles not just smaller, its surface conformation is different. And the liver doesn't recognize it. It's very poorly recognized. There's something called a protein B that's probably recognized because its surface shape has changed. So the liver does not clear it. And it circulates for five to seven days. So one bagel, one slice of pizza, whatever cardiovascular risk for about a week, meaning one Delta's per week is 52 weeks per year increased cardiovascular risks, it's that bad. The small LDL particle is probably recognized last longer, more adherent to the arterial wall, more likely to become oxidized, more likely to become glycated, modified by sugar, more likely to gain entry into the wall of the artery and promote inflammation so the small LDL particles is a perfect craftable best way to get into your arteries. And so that's just one slice of pizza week. Another thing to be aware of, is that glide in protein I mentioned. So, as I mentioned, humans just don't have that the jest of equipment to break down a lot of components of wheat and grains. And that's true of the glide and protein, the best we can do. So if you eat an egg or other protein source, let's say the proteins like us, you break them down to single amino acid, that's how it's supposed to be. So you can convert them to muscle and tissue, etc. The glidin protein of wheat is often undigestible, or broken down into peptides or fragments four or five amino acids long. And these act is opioids, on the human brain, and it can have a variety of effects. But the most common effect is appetite stimulation. It's varies, it varies from a very soft effect to an overwhelming crippling effect. The worst would be with bulimia and binge eating disorder. And these people have 24 hours a day food obsessions from Glide and Dr. Opie like peptides. And so I tell you that because sometimes I've been grain free for a month, right? Went to an office party, and they were serving hors d'oeuvres, I thought, What the hell, what was not gonna maybe do, that's it. I'll exercise more tomorrow, or something like that. But what happens is X ray exposure, a Greek night's the appetite, I call it the I ate when cooking and gain 30 pounds effect. Don't gain 30 pounds from a cookie. But it sets in motion that appetite stimulation, I've seen too many people, just from an occasional indulgence regain 2030 pounds in a month, because they can't they really have a hard time turning it off. That's among the effects. Why? And there's a third effect that's very common. That is so a lot of us who go grain free and get rid of a whole bunch of a long list of health conditions upon re exposure get quite sick. So many of us have bloating, diarrhea. Men get angry. Ladies get panic attacks or anxiety, some get suicidal thoughts. Appetite stimulation, of course. If you had a skin rash that went away with brain illness, it comes back. If you had an autoimmune condition that receded with grain elimination, it comes back for months. So one good example was when I was doing this, in the early days, I had a guy with rheumatoid arthritis. He came to me for coronary disease. So I gave him all the stuff that's really wheat and grains because you have smaller particles when you get vitamin D fish or whatever, but he does all these things. He says, you know, my rheumatoid arthritis is, is 70% Better, longer. It's almost gone. I'm almost off all my medication set for one. Then he says to me, I'm going to Germany, and I'll be damned. I am having Pumpernickel. Alright, he does it. He said within minutes, all the pain, swelling and crippling disfigurement came back, he had to go back on all the drugs, it took him six months to get back off the drugs. So it's an extreme example, but re exposure also, once you're free of these things, and you enjoy magnificent health and you go back, you can get quite ill.

Alex Ferrari 33:12
I tell you, I I've done a couple of juice cleanses in my day. And when you do a juice cleanse, it completely reset your system. It is I've gone to three days I've been gone a couple of weeks with just juices, fresh juices, and you lose your taste for bread for rice. For all that stuff. The one of the reasons I became vegan vegetarian is because I had a juice cleanse and I just like I don't really want this stuff and and I just started to do more and more research on it. And that's when I went down that road. There's another thing in regards to gluten. That excuse me, not gluten but with the gluten peck the thing you said the gluten thing, wheat gluten, the gluten. Thank you the glidin that triggers autoimmune disease. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that is one of the biggest one of the rising diseases we have.

Dr. William Davis 34:05
Yeah, so the science is quite clear from Dr. Alessio Fasano. He worked this out while at University of Maryland now at Harvard. And he showed that the glidin protein of wheat is very unique in that it actually prise apart the barrier between intestinal cells. And accordingly, that's why you get that rice that Zonulin oddly named Zonulin protein. The other name for Zonulin is haptoglobin. Two. And so it actually opens the barriers and allows things to get into your bloodstream and lymph, it could be breakdown products of food could be breakdown products of bacteria. And these are all inflammatory and can trigger an autoimmune response set in motion and autoimmune or immune response. This is well worked out with type one diabetes and children, rheumatoid arthritis and several others. What is not clear of the 100 or so autoimmune diseases, how many can we blame on wheat? That is not the Fully catalog. But it's the arrows are pointing towards the majority. So it's it's shocking Alex to people like me who you know here the USDA and US Department Health Human Services telling people eat more healthy whole grain it's the centerpiece of your health, a thing we know, underlies type two diabetes, autoimmune disease type one diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and numerous other forms of conditions including other autoimmune conditions. So now it's been amplified, Miss segues into the super gut conversation. The other thing that really increases intestinal permeability is overgrowth of unhealthy microbes. So modern people, Alex on 40 have done a number on our micro biomes. We have eradicated hundreds of beneficial species. These are species that were doing good things for us.

Alex Ferrari 35:52
And just interrupt you for a second just so everybody understands what microbiome can you explain what that is like the flora and it's basically the gut, essentially, the stuff in the gut.

Dr. William Davis 36:02
Yeah, so actually all the organs of the body skin, eyes, mouth, airways, uterus, prostate, as well as the GI tract contain trillions of microbes, and all the things we've been exposed to as modern people, antibiotics. You know, most of us have taken 30 courses of antibiotics by age 40 herbicide, pesticide residues and food, air and water. glyphosate, which is the active ingredient in Roundup, is also a very potent antibiotic emulsifying agents and other additives in common foods like ice cream and salad dressing, screw up your microbiome, synthetic sweeteners, drugs, like anti inflammatory drugs, stomach acid blocking drugs, statin cholesterol drugs, birth control pills, I mean, on and on common drugs all disrupt the microbiome. And so modern people as a rule, have introduced massive disruption of their intestinal microbiome in particular, because that's when it has the biggest implications for health. And two general things have happened. One, we've lost important species that did important things for us. And to in their place unhealthy microbes, many of them stool microbes have proliferated, and then ascend it up into the small bowel at 24 feet of small bowel, the ilium, jejunum duodenal stomach comprising 30 feet, Alex 30 feet of unhealthy microbes. And but you know, microbes don't live for decades, they live for minutes, hours. And so there's rapid turnover, trillions of microbes when they die, some of their breakdown products enter the bloodstream. That's a very important fact that was finally validated by a Belgian group in 2007. It's called endotoxemia. But it tells us once and for all, how microbes in the GI tract can be experienced as depression in the brain, or dementia, or Parkinson's disease, or rosacea or psoriasis, in the skin, or as fibromyalgia, or restless leg syndrome, in the limbs. And in other words, microbes in the GI tract can be experienced as diseases or conditions in virtually every other organ of the body, from coronary disease, to atrial fibrillation, to depression, to fibromyalgia, to restless leg syndrome to lupus to rumen. So all this has to be re examined in light of the contribution of the microbiome.

Alex Ferrari 38:31
So So I've heard the term lectins. What are lectins?

Dr. William Davis 38:35
So lectins are compounds in plants. of all sorts. They're fairly ubiquitous. And they can be taught to humans, if they're allowed to gain entry to the bloodstream, they can be toxic to the GI tract, but I think it's been overblown. One of the problems we have is when you have the overplayed ration of unhealthy microbes. These are microbes like Ecoli salmonella, that you might recognize also as the microbes food poisoning, because the kid the burger giant flipping your burgers didn't wash his hands after going number two. So these are fecal microbes, so proliferation of those fecal microbes, so there's an increase in intestinal permeability and increase in intestinal inflammation. And it makes you sensitive to things. It could be lectins it could be night shades, like eggplants and tomatoes. It could be FODMAPs foods with fibers and sugars. It could be histamine containing foods. It could be sorbitol, for to the other words, all these people with apparent intolerances to some component of foods, you've seen this, oh, I only can eat these five foods. Or I can't eat this list of 43 foods. That's the problem is not the food. There's nothing wrong with the food. There's something wrong with your microbiome that allowed these for you experiences food and talk to us. By the way, there's a new device that your listeners might your viewers might want to know about. It's called the air device a ir E from a A company called Food marble and I have no relationship with them, though I know the inventor now some of the people. He's my friend now, Dr. Angus short PhD in Dublin, Ireland. And he invented this device you blow into it registers hydrogen gas levels, talk to your smartphone and give you a little graph. He says microbes produce hydrogen gas, but you don't. And so you can use it to map out where in the GI tract microbes are. Because Alex, I was guilty until a few years ago, I thought this this issue of 30 feet of overgrown stool microbes. It's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. SIBO. I thought it was rare. But then I got a hold of this. And Angus shorts said this is only good for People with irritable bowel syndrome, IBS, who have foot fodmaps intolerance. And he is his fiancee, now wife was put on a low fodmap diet for IBS. And he saw how difficult was so he events, his device to help her? Well, I get a hold device I called up I said, Hey, I guess that's not what this is. Yeah, you can do that. It's a device to map out where in the GI tract microbes are living and tell you what the sources of all food intolerances, why shouldn't they all but most food intolerances. So the company is in the process of changing your instructions and literature, there's some regulatory issues slowing them down. But unfortunately, you buy the device, the air device, a ir E, the instructions are not suited to what I'm talking about. So I have seven pages of conversation and how to do this in the Super gut book. Now, you don't have to buy this as 200 bucks. But you don't have to buy it once. If you do, if you were to have your doctor test he would do in a lab or clinic if he even knew what it was, which is unusual. And you might have to do it several times because you do it a baseline follow up to see if you eradicate the bacteria. Do it again for recurrence. So if you buy the device, you buy it once, use it over and over and over and you can share with people in your family.

Alex Ferrari 42:05
So how so let me ask you then, two questions. One, what is the ideal diet that we should be eating? What is the thing that works? And I know I mean, there's obviously different beliefs and things like that in regards to meat and non meat, vegetarian, non veg, all that stuff. That's fine. But what is the ideal scenario? What should we definitely be avoiding? And then, and then also, if we can explain of probiotics, prebiotics, post biotics all that stuff, and what we can do to help our flora and our super gut.

Dr. William Davis 42:35
Yeah, we also have to break your vegetarian vegan kind of conversation. So. So what I do, Alex is, whenever in doubt, or whenever in question, ask How did humans do it? For the last 3 million years that got programmed into our genetic code? Right, so this is mostly in Africa, because humans didn't migrate out of Africa. They didn't several waves, but typically 30,000 60,000 years ago, so most of the adaptations occurred while in Africa. So what did what did they eat? And what do the few remaining people who maintain that lifestyle like the Maasai, the hodza, the Malawi, as well as puppets of humans, who still follow hunter gatherer lifestyles, like the Yanomami in Brazil, and the mosses in Peru, the Mori in New Zealand, the natives of New Guinea, these people all eat the same way they get up in the morning, grab a club Spirax kill something. Typically open the abdomen, eat the stomach, intestines often raw. That's a probiotic, by the way. Drag the carcass back to the camp, cook it, eat the brain. Rich in such things as hyaluronic acid eat the liver, tongue heart, rich in collagen, eight deliver with vitamin D, and some omega threes. Then eat the meat by the way, the meat is the least nutritious part of the animal and then of course digging the dirt for roots and tubers, gather berries, gather nuts, go for fish and shellfish. So you know if we were starving, that's what we would do too.

Alex Ferrari 44:18
Exactly Alright, so then but in the modern world that we live in today if we're not going to go club something, what is something that what is it? You know, obviously, we've talked about what we should avoid all we products, all grain products, milks, like milk and those kinds of things as well. Is there any other things that we really should kind of be avoiding

Dr. William Davis 44:39
Dietary guidelines, dietary guidelines have done more harm to the world because you know, the US kind of sets the pace for dietary guidelines once we do it. UK picks it up Australia picks up New Zealand picks it up and then the rest of Europe and Asia picks up South America pick it up, and we broadcast the message of cut your fat cut your saturated fat Based on the slimmest and most distorted of evidence, right, and then some garbage science that came out over the last 20 years, there never was good support for that argument. And in fact, you can all go to Walmart, you can see the impact of cut, I've had to find the low fat diet, because a low fat diet is by necessity a hard high carb diet, including wheat and grains with glide and derive opioid peptides that are appetite stimulants, and you get visceral fat, insulin resistance, type two diabetes, obesity, and all the diseases that follow hypertension, Karner disease, peripheral vascular disease and dementia. So it is a disaster of unprecedented proportions created by human blundering. And so, you know, we could wait for them to retract their advice, but they're not going to, we're never going to hear this. You know, we we made a mistake us for science and misinterpretation, and we take it all back, that we're not even sure if grains are safe for human consumption, we'll never hear this. So I don't want to wait 30 years, see if they smarten up. So you know, me and a lot of other people are doing this now and enjoying. I don't think it's a stretch to say magnificent health.

Alex Ferrari 46:13
So then, what can we do to increase our flora to help our internal microbiome to get healthier and to get get you know, the flora back?

Dr. William Davis 46:23
One of the things I like to do is replaced very specific last key microbes. My favorite is Lactobacillus reuteri are EU T ri, named after the German microbiologist who discovered it in human breast milk in 1962. Or Gerhard Reuter, R e u t, er German. Well, back then it was easy to find he could find it in human breast milk and people stool in chipmunks and squirrels, and monkeys and chickens, as well as indigenous populations. In the studies where they actually looked at species, they found 100% of humans have Lactobacillus reuteri. And most animals do. Well, now we've almost all lost it. Because rotary is very susceptible to common antibiotics like ampicillin. So you took Anthozoa and saved for an upper respiratory infection, sinusitis, whatever, it wiped out all your rotor, right. So what happens when you restore Rotary? Well, it takes up residence in the entire GI tract. And it sends a signal to your brain via the vagus nerve up through the chest, neck brain, to release the hormone oxytocin. And oxytocin may recognize the hormone of love and empathy. And so people say, I got my rotary restored and I like my spouse better. I like my kids back. I like my co workers better they annoy me less. I understand other people's points of view better, isn't that son at a time of course, I want other people's company more. And this occurs occurring pre pandemic, at a time of record setting social isolation, divorce and suicide. So there's that social aspect but the ladies love it. They knock your door down for rotary because it increases dermal collagen dramatically, they lose their wrinkles. Guys regain lost muscle and strength that we lose with aging. libido goes up the erotic content of your dreams increases like when you were 19 years old, your appetite is further suppressed. So getting rid of glide and drag opioid peptides from wheat drops your appetite dramatically. This goes even further out as you can walk pie, you are in complete command of appetite impulse. You're no longer tempted by garbage, of bone density and ladies is preserved substantially. Sleep is deeper. I'm a chronic Insomniac for years for decades, right sleep for five hours fragmented sleep terrible watching TV, reading books, middle of night feeling like crap next day. I now sleep nine hours straight through deep sleep. And those of us who were active graphic devices like Apple watch or a ring or Fitbit will see about a 20% lengthening of rem sleep deep restorative phase of sleep that's helpful for maintaining mental health. In other words, Alex so useful muscle and strength, smoother skin, less wrinkles, better bone density, increased libido, I don't think it's a stretch to say what we're doing with reuteri is turning the clock back put 10 or 20 years to Alex. That's one microbe.

Alex Ferrari 49:36
Wow. So where can you get those kind of microbes? Where can you get the probiotics, Flora, all that kind of stuff.

Dr. William Davis 49:43
So this one's very specific. One of the kind of annoying things we have to get into with microbes, you have to pay attention to strain. So just to illustrate, so you've got Ecoli I've got E coli, your listeners have ecoli. But what if you ate lettuce contaminate with Ecoli From cow manure, you could die that E. coli, same species, E. coli, like different strains. So strain, it seems like a nitpicky thing, but it can literally mean life death differences. So we have to pay attention strain. Now, that said, I'm going to tell you that I started doing this initially, by using two strains from a Swedish company in a commercial product called BioGaia, gastrous, gstr. Us. These are two very specific strains, but they sell it to you as tablets made for infants. And so the counts of bacteria are so small because they're for babies. So I reasoned, this is back several years. Now. How do I increase the counts? Well, an easy ways make yogurt data, but but not yoga in the conventional sense. We're going to use dairy but fermented for a prolonged period. So we get huge numbers of bacteria, in this case, 36 hours. And we counted the back the bacteria, we got as high as 262 billion microbes per half cup serving. And so part of the magic here is to get big, big, big bacterial numbers. That's why I think we're part of the reason we're getting these huge effects. Now, I called the company, the executives, Nate. I told them all this stuff, which to me, I hope to your listeners is like, wow, smoother skin, muscle sleep, I mean, libido, all that. They're like, oh, oh, we don't really care about that, which I, all they cared about was the baby stuff. I thought they were knuckleheads.

Alex Ferrari 51:35
It's like, it's like Xerox back in the day, like, this computer stuff is ridiculous. We're gonna stay with, we're gonna stay with, we're gonna stay with the copiers. That's the future.

Dr. William Davis 51:44
Excellent analogy. I'm gonna use that. Well, so they kind of discouraged me from doing anything. Well, since then, I've gotten seven other strains of Rotary. I've made yogurt. And some other people have done this. And this is just anecdote though, it seems to recreate all the effects. Now we have I have an animal trial mouse trial. We're going to test different strains for its capacitive boost oxytocin, that's about to get underway. I have our first human clinical trials rotary lined up, we'll do that also. So we're going to get smarter. But I think what's going to happen is, I'm going to say, I'm predicting now that here's the best are among the best rotary strains. But until that happens, I would just buy the BioGaia gastrous tablets and use those to hassle you have to buy a bunch of tabs and crush them. Once you get started. You make future batches from a prior batch. You don't have to buy just buy once. This is true, by the way, for most fermentation projects. Don't have to keep on buying probiotics or microbes. Buy it once or get it once. Maybe a friend gives it to you. I have my entire neighborhood doing this yogurt. And so somebody new says, Hey, Bill, can I have a so I yeah, I'll give him a little Tupperware thing here. And they make it from that. They make future batches from that. That's just one microbe Alex, there are other microbes you can choose for other effects. If you want a reduction in knee pain from arthritis, let's make yogurt or other fermented foods, by the way, with bacillus coagulants. If you wanted a healthier child healthier babies, dramatic increase in sleep reduction, diaper changes and bowel movements, reduced potential for type one diabetes, allergies, irritable bowel syndrome, and higher IQ. Let's get Bifidobacterium fantas and that child system. In other words, you can achieve extraordinary things. Now the downside of all this is all these wonderful little fermentation projects won't work if you have that overgrowth issue. So you got to first decide if you have that. One way is to test with the air device. Another way you don't have to get this, just look for what I call telltale signs. These are things like seeing fat droplets in the toilet, because you're not digesting fats, because the bad bacteria you do a deal with blocking digestive enzymes, or conditions that are synonymous with SIBO. Food intolerances. If you have a food intolerance, you have SIBO. If you have fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, restless leg syndrome, a neurodegenerative disorder or an autoimmune disease, it's virtually guaranteed you have SIBO or at least have a very high likelihood of SIBO or at least major disruption of the composition of microbes in your colon, the large bowel.

Alex Ferrari 54:31
So do you so what you're saying is that you could treat certain kinds of diseases or conditions with with a probiotic, that depending on the strain.

Dr. William Davis 54:45
Now with a probiotic, so one of the problems with probiotics, Alex is they're very haphazardly concocted with a lot of new science not yet factored in. So for instance, so microbes just like people, you know, we don't live in in isolation by ourselves, right? We live with our partners, our families, our neighborhoods, our communities, microbes are the same, and they collaborate in creating communities and metabolites. So there's only one probiotic, by the way that has actually incorporated. These are called Gilder consortium effects. So my friend microbiologist Dr. Rowe Kento, has created a consortium of microbes, they it's a commercial product called Sugar shift. Once again, I have no relationship. They're not paying me. They're my friends. Now, Martha Carlin, and Ro Hello, my friends. And they create a product called Sugar shift, they call it sugar shift, because this collection of collaborative microbes consume sugars in your GI tract, thereby reduces your blood sugar dramatically, and non non diabetic people, at least in pulmonary evidence. And by the way, one of the reasons why they're doing this is they really think that these, this collection of microbes takes sugars in your GI tract converted to another sugar called mannitol, which is not the Jasper by humans, but it is able to penetrate into the brain where it dissolves something called Alpha synuclein. That's the protein that gums up your brain in Parkinson's disease. And Martha's husband has Parkinson's disease, she's given it to him now this just anecdote. She says he converted from walking with a cane or walker to walking freely now.

Alex Ferrari 56:26
So God has things. So these things are taking out those. It's a It's can't be digested. So it's actually taking it and converting it or getting rid of it and getting it out of your system.

Dr. William Davis 56:38
Down denature it dissolving it. Yeah. Now this has to be borne out in real clinical trials, which takes a long time, it's very expensive, because it involves such things as MRIs, and and sure measures of Ambulatory ability and psychometric testing and such. I, they're going to do that. But so far, just anecdotally, and based on the experimental model, it looks like it works. But you can see what we're getting at here. We're talking about having incredibly powerful tools, blood sugar, Parkinson's disease,depression,

Alex Ferrari 57:11
Autoimmune disease

Dr. William Davis 57:12
Autoimmune diseases, you know, depression is a biggie, you know, depression is not well served by the healthcare system never has SSRIs are not very right. I mean, a side effect of SSRIs is suicide.

Alex Ferrari 57:24
But let me ask you a question. So, because for the layman, when you think of micro biomes, you thinking of probiotics. So is there is it this is not these are not probes, because when you go to the supermarket, and you go to Whole Foods, and you go to the refrigerator, and they have prebiotics, probiotics post biotics, that's not what you're talking about, because there's strains and there's billions of strains and so on and so forth. Is that what you're talking about?

Dr. William Davis 57:49
That is what I'm talking about. But they're so haphazardly concocted that they typically don't have a lot of benefit to them. They do have some benefits, sure, increased mucus production in your intestinal tract, they do suppress proliferation of some of the unhealthy microbes. But there's a lot of problems with the current commercial crop of probiotics. There are numerous improvements that could be made, like what role and Martha did with the sugar shift, create a consortium or Gill that's one thing. The other thing is to include what are called keystone species, and species important for other microbes, like plankton in the ocean. If you lost plankton, there's no whales, or jellyfish to filter feeders. So the same kind of principle applies to the human GI tract, there are keystone species that support other species, and most commercial products have failed include keystone species, the failure to specify strain. Another example besides ecoli, would be lactobacillus rhamnosus. GG strain, the GG strain has been shown to be quite effective in abbreviating diarrhea after an antibiotic, but other strange rhamnose Don't do that. You buy a fancy probiotic pay a lot of money for it right has left the muscles rhamnose no strain specified, it's probably not G G, because it's cheaper to buy the nine G G. So there's a lot of problems with current. So of all the things you and I can do and your listeners can do for their microbiome. The last thing is that probiotics the least important it does help. Now that's going to change as manufacture gets smarter about what should go into a probiotic. But the most important thing people could do is just bring back what your great grandmother did. And that is ferment your foods. Really fermented veggies, yeah, coffee, ears, yogurts, not yogurt, not the garbage in the store stuff we make ourselves with prolonged fermentation. And we choose the microbes we want for specific effects. It's very easy, it's virtually no cost. So I've gotten my counter, tomatoes, garlic, and basil leaves all fermenting takes about three days. And there are some rules you can't use chlorinated drinking. I have to use filtered water. Because chlorine and fluoride kill microbes can use iodized salt. Iodine kills microbes, and to keep below the surface of the water. So fungus doesn't grow from the air. But it's delicious. And it's probably the most important thing you can do. There's a husband wife team from Stanford, just an Erica Sonnenberg. And only about four or five months ago, then they published a very extensive, very important paper that showed that frequent consumption of fermented foods dramatically change microbiome composition. Oddly, when you eat something that's from let's say, kimchi, right, or fermented sauerkraut, well, you're getting species like pedia caucus, pedia caucus, penta spacious, or Luca nostoc, mesin droid ease. So you're inoculating yourself with those microbes, they only take a temporary residence, but it's not quite clear how this happens. But the presence of those fermenting microbes allows other beneficial species to develop, it's not quite clear if they've been latent. But you somehow are more receptive to them from the environment. Nobody really knows. But the Sonnenberg showed that frequent consumption of fermented foods, opens the door to restoration, and you know what you can feel it. You if you start eating fermented foods, within a couple three days, people typically say I am, I feel happy. I feel crystal clear. I have energy I didn't know I had. I'm sleeping. And I'm having vivid, childlike dreams, flying monsters showing up in English class, my underwear, that kind of stuff we had as kids. So it really is transformative. And it's virtually free Alex and I love things that people can do on their own, that are powerful, don't involve the healthcare system don't involve the obstruction of the doctor, but you can do on your own.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:55
And a lot of everything that you were talking about is in your book Super Gut as far as like the different kinds of strains how to build I'm assuming there's a way to you have a way to create your own yogurt here. Recipes, little things like that to help you along the way.

Dr. William Davis 1:02:12
And there are people who say Oh no dairy for me. You can use other other media like you can use coconut milk, canned coconut milk, it's a good medium. I've I fermented hummus, hummus is very receptive salsa, veggies to fears of course, there's all kinds of stuff you can ferment. One of my favorites and this is not in the book because I just thought about this a few months ago, is what I call saccharomyces boulardii, sparkling saccharomyces boulardii cider, or other juices so, it very one of the easiest things you can ferment get a commercial product called Flora store. Fo ra STLR. It's in Walgreens target Meijer. It's like 15 bucks. Take a capsule, empty it into any volume of cider is one the easiest apple cider. Just make sure so you want the cider not the juice. You want the sides cloudy site unfiltered with rich and pectin. Just make sure there's no preservatives like potassium sorbate. So empty your florastor capsule into any volume court down doesn't matter. Cap it very lightly. You know you stir a little bit, capital le put it on your counter, let it sit there for 48 hours, maybe up to 72 hours. That microbe is a is a fungus. It's a cousin of Saccharomyces Serra VCA that people used to make wine and beer. But saccharomyces boulardii is uniquely adapted human body. But in the cider, it takes the sugar and converts it to other things including carbon dioxide, at about 24 hours, it's you'll see this thing bubbling out it's like a cauldron. And it's fermenting. That's why I say capitalized because you could Cabot tightly reload, or at least thing will pop off. Give it 4872 hours, what you're doing is the capsule as provided, I think has something like I forget 6.5 billion counts. We're increasing it to big counts, and you drink a quarter cup, something like that half a cup. It does have some sugar left. And it is incredibly healing. If you take this during an antibiotic, it will dramatically abbreviate diarrhea and the disruption of your microbiome because it's a fungus and it's not affected by antibiotics. So it's one of the best things you can do both to recover from an antibiotic and to prevent antibiotic associated disruption for microbiome.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:41
Those probiotics that you know, they're very famous in the in the supermarkets and Walmart, Whole Foods, the one the yogurts you buy, are those any good.

Dr. William Davis 1:04:51
Not a whole lot. But here's some good notes. So let's take our my favorite microbe Lactobacillus reuteri. So bacteria don't have sexual reading Production, right? There's no mommy and daddy microbes, they just double so called asexual reproduction. So rotary doubles every three hours, at 100 degrees Fahrenheit. And so we ferment for 36 hours. That's 12 doublings. And that, that tells us how we get it 200 plus billion counts,

Alex Ferrari 1:05:22
And how do you stop that stuff? How do you stop from them to continue,

Dr. William Davis 1:05:25
Just put it in the refrigerator.

Alex Ferrari 1:05:27
Got it.

Dr. William Davis 1:05:28
And the low 40s temperature of a refrigerator stops most doubling. Now, in the factory, you can imagine if you had a shoe factory, and it took you five days to make a pair of shoes, and your competitor could make a pair of shoes in three hours, who's gonna make more money? Probably the guy who's faster, right? So same thing with yogurt. They don't want to wait 36 hours, they wait four hours. But you can imagine if microbes double only every typically one, two or three hours, four hours is nothing. And so I illustrate, I tell people, I remind about this kid's riddle, which would you rather have a million dollars or Penny, or a penny that doubles every day for 30 day, kids always say write a million dollars,

Alex Ferrari 1:06:16
Take that Penny any day of the week.

Dr. William Davis 1:06:19
So five and a half million dollars. But if you look at the curve of money, as it increases, the big uptick in money doesn't occur till about day 2827 28. Same thing in microbial doubling. If it doubles every three hours, say it doesn't really increase numbers till about hour 33. And so if you're fermenting for four hours in a factory or some home fermenters for 12 hours, you really don't have anything, you're on the flat part of the curve. You want that sharp climbing part of the curve, which is our 33 with Reuter, right. With some species, it could be 24 hours.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:57
So you basically have like 16 cents.

Dr. William Davis 1:07:01
Exactly, right. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:03
You got 16 cents and so you haven't given given at a time to compound yet to get to where you want to go. Dr. Davis, it's been an absolute joy talking to you where can people find more more about what you do in the work that you're doing and books and things.

Dr. William Davis 1:07:18
So Super Gut Book Of course, which is everywhere, Barnes and Noble books, a million. Amazon, of course, I have a I consolidated all my websites, I had too many, Facebook, all that stuff. I can sell they almost everything into drdavisinfinitehealth.com. And there there's a a blog, there's also a membership. Inner Circle where I do this. In fact, I'm doing it tonight, for a couple hours, I mean, typically 70 to 100 people, and they'll say things like my first batch of infantis yogurt didn't turn out what's wrong, you know, or I added lactobacillus kci Shirota to my rotary, and I slept 14 hours, I don't want to sleep working hours. So talk about all the crazy things that can happen.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:09
Well, Dr. Davis, thank you again, so much for doing your work that you're doing and, and trying to educate people and giving them better health. So I appreciate you my friend. Thank you again.

Dr. William Davis 1:08:18
Alex, thank you for what you're doing. Because I don't know if you know this, but anybody who wants to talk about health nowadays has been blacklisted from major media. So what you're doing, and other podcasters and bloggers has been catapulted to being extremely critical for getting the word out of proof and health. Because the Big Pharma now rules the media world and we need to spread these kinds of ideas. So thank you.

Alex Ferrari 1:08:44
I'll do what I can my friend I appreciate you.