Unfolding Consciousness, Exploring the Living Universe and Intelligent powers in Nature and Humans is our subject, and our writer and speaker is Edi Bilimoria born in India and educated at the universities of London, Sussex and Oxford, Edi is an extraordinary blend of experience in the fields of science, art and philosophy.
A dedicated student of the perennial philosophy for half a century, Edi has given courses and lectured extensively in the UK, and internationally in California, The Netherlands, India and Australia. He has organized and chaired several major conferences on the different but overlapping roles of Science, Religion and PRACTICAL philosophy. He also served as Education Manager for the Theosophical Society in Australia, developing courses and supervising the Research, National Media, and National Members Lending Libraries. His written work has been published extensively in the fields of science, engineering and esoteric philosophy.
Edi is an award winning Consultant Engineer for the petrochemical, oil and gas, aerospace, transport, and construction industries. He has also worked in safety and environmental management for the Royal Navy and has been Project Manager and Head of Design for major innovative projects such as the Channel Tunnel, The London Underground systems and offshore installations.
Edi is also an experienced glider pilot, is a talented singer… and an extraordinary pianist and practices regularly on his mahogany Steinway grand piano.
Edi Bilimoria is a lovely, gentle and compassionate soul with a powerful presence and the most beautiful of hearts.
Please enjoy my conversation with Edi Bilimoria.
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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 215
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 0:00
So the perennial philosophy is really the eternal wisdom, the eternal truths that underlie and are the source of all signs, religions and philosophies. Because they all spring from that bound fountainhead of the one central wisdom.
Alex Ferrari 0:23
I'd like to welcome to the show, Dr. Edi Bilimoria. How you doing, Dr. Edi?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 0:37
I'm delighted to meet you, Alex. And whenever people ask me how I am, I say, that is not an option. Good health, and a positive attitude, or mandatory. It's not optional.
Alex Ferrari 0:52
Very true, very true. I'm excited to talk to you about your seminal work that it's so beautifully displayed behind you unfolding consciousness, exploring the Living Universe, and the intelligent powers in nature and humans. A small a small task, to say the least is having this conversation and the books that you're writing. But my first question is, what began your journey into consciousness in general?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:23
Let me put it this way, Alex, I was trained in science. But I've always maintain an equal interest in music and art. And my love in life also I have three loves was the perennial philosophy. And that combination coming together showed me that the main element, so to speak, and the universe and man is indeed consciousness, and the whole of life is an unfolding of consciousness on various levels and on various planes. So I wouldn't say that journey started. You know, with sudden awakening, it was a dawning awareness that scientific materialism was not providing the answers to the deepest questions of life. And the perennial philosophy of all nations, in all cultures, without exception, put the emphasis on consciousness, and its expression through Matter and Form, but science reverses it, and says consciousness is the product of blind matter.
Alex Ferrari 2:55
But let me let me ask you this, because, well, let's let's do this, what is your definition of consciousness because it varies from person to person.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 3:05
It does. Alex and the job redefinitions is your limit things, right! Let's put it this way. In the great sacred traditions, there are two ways of defining the Divine One is the apathetic it is not this this is not that mean, it is not only that it is much more than that. And the other one is the Qatar Vedic 1001 will not be enough 2000 definitions will not be enough. So rather than defining consciousness, I would say how would you define love? How would you define generosity? We experience these things. But if we define, we put it into a box. Because consciousness is not an object, you define and put in a box. It's an experience. And you can't put an experience in a box. Fair enough, couldn't see the expression of consciousness, in terms of awareness in terms of sentience in terms of all the other qualities that we experienced as human beings,
Alex Ferrari 4:13
Or for people who are listening, what can you can you explain what perennial the philosophy you were talking about? I can't say the first name of the philosophy you were just mentioning.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 4:23
Well, the the perennial?
Alex Ferrari 4:24
Perennial, perennial philosophy, can you explain what that is?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 4:27
Yes, it comes under various names. One is esoteric signs. So, the other one is hermeticism. But essentially, it is to do with the inner side of life and nature. Esoteric means that which is hidden in the sense of the invisible influences that are behind the outward phenomena. The causative actors, the noumenon behind the phenomena. So the perennial philosophy is really the eternal wisdom, the eternal truths that underlie and are the source of all signs, religions and philosophies. Because they all spring from that fountainhead of the one central wisdom, which then flows out in these various streams that we call science, religion, philosophy and art. So, perennial, is a wonderful term that was also used by the great Albert Schweitzer. And he writes likened perennialism to a tree that always bears the same fruit, but never the same type of fruit. So for example, you'd have an apple tree, it will always give you apples, but never the same kind of Apple, every Apple will be different. Meaning meaning that the eternal wisdom, always one, in essence, has got to be modified, and adapted to the age and the culture. And the mentality of the age we live in now.
Alex Ferrari 6:21
Being a man of science and being trained in science, I imagine that going down roads that are not particularly approved of, let's say, by the scientific community, like you have in your work. First question is, how did that how did the How did your colleagues accept these ideas? And, and why are so many mainstream ideas and materialism is so stuck in in their way that they cannot see any other option and refuse to even have a conversation I mean we're going back to Galileo for God's sakes. I mean, if they don't open their minds, why is that?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 7:06
Through the scientific and medical network, we have what we call now the Galileo commission. And here is just a booklet. I don't know if you can see that.
Alex Ferrari 7:17
Yeah, we can see it, we can see it. Yeah.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 7:18
Inviting scientists to look through the telescope, in just the same way that Galileo invited his professors to look through his telescope, rather than during arguing on the basis of their preconceptions. Now, the tragedy, Alex is the greatest of scientists have seen the limits and the limitations and the beauty of science and have pointed to the deeper wisdom by whatever name well, Newton, the prime example absolute prime example but Einstein, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, volve, gan Tao Li, the Nobel laureates that ushered in quantum physics, the tragedy, Alex's, their deepest thoughts have been ignored by the mainstream. And Schrodinger explained it many explanations that in the 19th century, there was an explosion of scientific materialism and technology. And that created this sort of attitude, that there is nothing but materialism. So we are nothing but machines, because we create machines, we are nothing but machines. So materialism is deeply entrenched. And when scientists are invited to look through the telescope, meaning look at the evidence, believe you me, they say we don't need the evidence is rubbish anyway. Well, I say what kinds of scientist are you then? And there is a very important point, Alex with evidence through what it is you're looking St. Paul, did he not say that those who looked at the eyes of the fish see flesh, those who look through the eyes of the spirit, was the spirit. If you don't like St. Paul, let's go to William Blake. Only if the doors of perception are cleansed, will we see the finer picture? If your windscreen if your car is all fogged up, you're not going to see very much fog means preconceptions. So the vast majority of scientists will ignore the inside acts of the Enlightened scientists and there are many there are many enlightened scientists now. increasing in number. Rupert Sheldrake an obvious example, Brian Josephson, Nobel laureate.
Alex Ferrari 10:18
And well, let me ask you this, then. Because so many when quantum physics came into existence, the ideas of quantum physics came into existence in the 19th century. It really hasn't. And please correct me if I'm wrong. It hasn't made tremendous strides over the last 100 and 100 years or so since I was 1918. If I'm not mistaken, I might be wrong, maybe a little earlier. But within the last 100 years or so, it hasn't made tremendous amount of progress because of this kind of entrenchment of the mainstream, correct?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 10:53
Yes, you're right, Alex, and earn, it hasn't made progress. The least progress it has made, has been in the life sciences in the biological sciences, which is a tragedy. Generally talking to physicists, you will get a far more open, I don't mean gullible, just a more enlightened approach, that, with rare exceptions, in the life sciences, biology is deeply entrenched in the old machine mechanistic paradigm. And the machine paradigm is not wrong. And this is the whole point. It's right within context. And regarding context, I can give you an example if you like. These are what they mean by context and levels, if you like, please write what we briefly every day, or whatever the weather in England, I like to go running around my local lake, it's not mine, it's five minutes away. And there is a beautiful playground. And you see, children having a lovely time on the swing and the slides. Now let's imagine just imagine that a child comes down to slide and knocks the 2000 perfectly, and the slide manufacturer gets hauled in, Hey, you didn't design the slide. Now. From his point of view, a child coming down the slide is a mass coming down a slope, it's just the transformation of potential energy at the top kinetic energy, of course, it can be a child, it can be a piece of wood, it can be a stone, as far as the slide design is concerned, there is a mass coming down a slope. That's good physics. That's all you need to know. The child knocked a tooth out, mommy takes him to the dentist. Now, the dentist is going to regard the tooth, well, the lack of it as an object, the dentist isn't going to say, what's your soul nature? And what's your spirit? The slide manufacturer is interested in the weight of the child say three stone coming down, the dentist is not interested in the weight of the child. It's an object. Now, supposing the child has a terrible trauma and needs to see a psychiatrist. Will the psychiatrists say what's your weight? Are you an object? No, the psychiatrist is going to be interested in your soul nature. What's your internal subjective nature? So these are different levels. So to ask the question at one level at the physics level, and try to solve it at the soul level is to talk nonsense. So this is why a source of great confusion that we don't use our mental models in context, the physics model is great for physics. But a dentist can regard your teeth as an object which doesn't make you an object.
Alex Ferrari 14:08
Right! Completely that makes it that makes all the sense of the world. So then the the knowledge that has been around humanity for the last 6000 years, whether that be Chinese medicine, or Ayurvedic medicine and medicine that's far older, much older than Western medicine. And when the west or mainstream medicine or mainstream mainstream science ignores it dismisses it, is that that that sounds to me of being pure ego. Because don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong. Look, if I get like I always tell people if I get shot, do not rub a leaf on me. Take me take me to a hospital and let them do what they do to save my life because at that level, they're they're far beyond Ayurvedic medicine and Chinese medicine, but for the long term these other other systems have been around for centuries, that deal in energy that deal in other Chi energy and other ideas of energy that we don't understand or yet except, so, is that ego that is that is
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 15:21
It is part ego just thought the institutionalized ego, but let me first say that, in general physical science use wisely will be, will result in the physical release of man use unwisely, it will result in his downfall. Now, I rarely talk about my personal health because there's not much to talk about, but these eyes looking at you believe you me, was saved when I was 15 years old, not by acupuncture not by homeopathy. By top of Tomic consultant, and the the remedy was contact lenses in those days. And in those days, God forbid you have a corneal operation because they would use Gillette blades. In the 1960s, now they can operate with lasers, but then wearing contact lenses for 20 years. At the age of 15 onwards, the blood vessels creep into your cornea because of the starvation of oxygen. Material Science then came in and they made gas permeable lenses. So I would go down on my knees to Western medicine. But there are other things where they will block research and understanding into other healing modalities. And they do not understand that allopathic medicine is essentially reductionist, whereas the homeopathic and acupuncture are energetic mechanisms. So they're looking at the energy systems of the body. So, again, talking of context, if you fall down and break your leg, my goodness, so good luck going to homeopath, but for chronic diseases. I know personally, the people who've had long term lung problems, and I've gone to homeopath and other people who had similar allergy issues and gone to an acupuncturist, rather than putting cortisone cream on your skin. So, in general, it would be very good for the energetic practitioners on your patson to learn something about human physiology and structure, so that they don't get carried away with their success, and they don't attribute their success and develop their own ego. Equally. It would be very good for the Western doctor to learn something about the energy systems so that the arrogance could be somewhat taken down a bit. On the one hand, arrogance, and you won't have on the one hand, the other hand gullibility arrogance, is stripped away by the a devotional approach. The excessive devotional approach is straightened by the intellectual approach, context and balance.
Alex Ferrari 18:52
It's it would be nice if they looked at the energy body, but they have to first admit that it's there before they study it and accept it, which is, again, it always fascinates me that, you know, I've had multiple quantum physicists and scientists on the show, that especially to deal within the ideas of science and spirituality, and the ideas that have been laid out in the Vedic texts and other ancient wisdom that has survived all these years. Quantum physics is starting to be able to explain or understand or even speak about, like the concept of Maya, the concept of the dream of the illusion, what is your what is your feeling on on that on like simulation theory and that whole idea?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 19:43
I feel quantum physics is really the crown jewel of science. And Bernard Carr who is very kindly endorsed my work for Stephen Hawking's pupil if I may say is PhD, Stephen Hawking was SPO To the supervisor, burning cause a wonderful Uroboros diagram showing how physics has explored everything from the largest dimension, relativity theory, excuse me, to the very smallest quantum theory. But what is missing? His mind, mind is out of the equation, it doesn't mean physicists are mindless. They haven't put the central emphasis on nines. Quantum physics has brought the whole question of consciousness into the discourse. Eugene Wigner, the Cambridge Nobel laureate said it is not possible. I'm paraphrasing to talk about the phenomena of consciousness without invoking the central role of consciousness. It does not mean that quantum physics explains consciousness this this is a misunderstanding, he doesn't consciousness is needed for many of the interpretations and to make sense of the experiments in quantum physics like the famous to whole experiment. So quantum physics, the other tremendous contribution it has made, which has not really infiltrated the scientific mind is shown nonlocality and entanglement and it is shown the central role of participation. John Wheeler at Princeton said, we can no longer look at phenomenon in a detached way behind a glass partition. Because we are part of the phenomena we are trying to understand. And I said earlier that it is a tragedy that scientists have not listened to their great fellow scientists, Max Planck, himself said, the great founder, that it is not possible to understand the full nature in entirety. And because we are part of nature, we have got to include ourselves in the understanding. So real understanding is a participation, not a detachment.
Alex Ferrari 22:25
It's like trying to do a science experiment on something that you are a part of having a clear understanding of that. Absolutely. Absolutely fascinating.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 22:35
Very simplistically, if I want to understand my neighbor, in a materialistic sense, I drag him and put in my kitchen table coffee mug weighs bits and pieces come on. But how do I only found out his material? Parts stuff? Yeah, to know him. I've got to bring him in, have tea with him and have a conversation with him.
Alex Ferrari 23:00
So how do you measure that which is consciousness? Because you're absolutely that's a great example, by the way, because materialism looks at the body. And to find out who your neighbor is, and they can cut it, they can weigh it, they can look at it, they can analyze it, put it under a microscope, they could do everything they can to the material body. But what has constantly evaded science is what's running the body. What is running the mind the concept of emotions, the concept of consciousness is something that is unquantifiable. And they just ignore it. They just like well, that this we just we're just going to focus on the body. But there's something unquantifiable about consciousness. Would you agree with that?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 23:47
Unquantifiable in the quantitative sense? Correct? Quantify love, quantify selfishness. Yeah, but you've hit on a very important point that Alex, the body of science looks to the form to the change in form. And evolution in the Darwinian biological sense looks only to the change in form, but what's driving that change of form? There is an inner principle that is driving that change in form. Why does take the human eye I use the example of the eye. Why is it that the cornea doesn't have a blood supply whereas all the other organs have knobs now why because if you had blood settled cells, a light wouldn't go through. So where does the cornea get its oxygen from from the air and from your tears the cells in the back of the cornea have a pumping action to keep out moisture because if moisture in grasses you know your car windscreens fogging up. Who designed that the I, I think gotoh correct me from all Blake. If the eye was not of the Essence of Light, he could not see light. And this is an important point. Science has found that a woodpecker can peck 20 times a second without cussing its brain because of soft tissue. Yes. But which scientists designed the woodpecker. Scientists know that the giraffe has a long neck and therefore, the head has got to be light, it needs a strong heart to pump the stuff up. It needs valving in the throat. So when he puts his head down, he doesn't go. But this has all come together as an orchestration. No veterinary scientist has designed a giraffe. So it's a very important point. And so after Thomson FRS pointed out, science does not explain, it discovers. And it observes. The discovery is a marvelous, but it does not explain the cheetah that runs a 70 miles an hour, thanks to its muscles Undertale acts as a rudder. No scientists designed a cheetah and we can go on like that. Sure. So there is an inner principle behind the form.
Alex Ferrari 26:34
Well, let me ask you this. It's up because this is an example I use. A lot of times when speaking about quantum physics and spirituality. Is that and please correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, sure. We've been able, we've been able now to go down to the quantum level, pass the molecule past the atom going past the neutrons, and if you just keep going down and down and down, at a certain point, there is just space between the two between particles Am I correct in that explanation?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 27:06
There is vibrant space. Right.
Alex Ferrari 27:09
So that vibrant. So now, materialism, by that idea alone, has been in many ways debunked, because what is solid is not solid,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 27:20
Alex, Sir Karl Popper, all those years ago, it's another example of science ignoring the great people. What did he say? He used the word promissory materialism. In his great book with Sir John Eccles, Nobel laureates or Karl Popper. He said that the very discoveries of science has demolished the notion of materialism. Materialism, he said has transcended itself. So that space you talk about is the mental field. It is so to speak. A field of mind, which is why mathematics is such a beautiful subject, in explaining the physical world. How can a abstract subject completely off the mind mathematics explain a physical phenomena? If that physical phenomena were not intrinsically of the nature of mind? Am I indeed. So you're absolutely right. Heisenberg also said if we go chopping down quark, subclades sub sub box, we reach a stage where division has no meaning. Right? And yet, at cern, they're now proposing to build another large hadron collider. And I've mentioned that in the in the book costing 20 billion 20 billion now, it'll be doubled that when they build it tabash More and more particles defined at the ultimate particle. So one of the reasons for this is the explosion of technology. And because we have machines and technology, we worship material science, which I always say has its place.
Alex Ferrari 29:29
Right. And that started back in the Industrial Revolution. When Yes, when we started building these amazing technological feats, that airplane, the car, factories, everything that then we did it in such a short it's within the history, very short amount of time. 120 years has been immense. The neurological movement, it has been an explosion. But so my question to you is going all the way down and dividing, subdividing and keep going and keep going when there's that vibrational energy, space, if you will. What is holding it together then? Is it consciousness? If this table that I'm on right now I'm resting on has space in between it? What makes it solid? What is holding these particles together? What is holding me together? What is holding this microphone together? What is the thing that creates this material thing that we touch? Is it the mind? Is it consciousness? What is it?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 30:37
Let's call it a field. Okay. In the same way that a field will organize iron filings, right here by magnet, it call it the field of mind, your field of consciousness. But that's, that's a deep question.
Alex Ferrari 30:56
It is, it is. That's what we try to do on the show, I try to go
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 31:00
The deeper the better.
Alex Ferrari 31:02
Exactly. So then. So then the idea of well, I just found I just learned about the winners of the Nobel Peace Prize in 2022. I mean, I stay as close to the scientific community as I can, but I'm not up on it all the time. And I just discovered what they wanted for quantum physics, which was that the universe isn't real. We're using quantum entanglement to explain those three physicists. That is mind blowing. Ideas. How did that how is the scientific community even grasping these concepts of, of what they're talking about, which has been proven now by math and quantum physics?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 31:43
Yeah. So if it's not real, what are they all about? Right, right. Let me answer it in two parts. Firstly, when Heisenberg was dying, his last words to his pupil, von Visakha. Were it is very easy. I never knew this before. Physics is of no importance. The universe is not real. So but he only got a Nobel Prize in Physics. It doesn't mean it's not real. It exists. But it is not the ultimate essence of reality exists means exists to stand up. Let's look at reality in this way. Now, part two mounts. How many dimensions can one see if one were a bug? Crawling on on a flat surface, only able to see one dimension, you know, one would not see. The breadth. If one had two dimensional vision, one sees length and breadth, but one would fall off the edge so to speak, one could see three dimensions, you know, but taking this further, there are some people who only see the literal, they open the book, and there they see the literal. Another dimension is to see the meaning behind the words. Now, it doesn't mean that the third dimension was hidden. It's only that the bug didn't see it. So these higher dimensions are subsumed, they're hidden. So the more dimensions one can access, the more reality becomes real. So string theory and M theory that talk of 13th dimension and other dimensions, I exploring these other dimensions. So the universe is not real, in the sense that what they're seeing is an aspect of the whole and not the whole thing, which is another way of looking at Maya Maya does not mean just illusion. It means that appearance, things are not what they appear to be.
Alex Ferrari 34:14
Let me ask you this then. Because I've studied Hindu traditions and yogic yogic philosophies and things like that. From my understanding, you know, when you get to a certain level of evolution as a yogi, like Yogananda, or you know, or baba Ji or Lahiri Mahasaya, any of these, any of these yoga or Buddha in baba ji, baba, baba Ji is Oh, yeah, of course we're here. Yeah, the painting of the back.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 34:25
His name mentioned
Alex Ferrari 34:56
Yes of course. So, these these masters When they evolve to a certain level, are they in a spiritual sense, becoming more aware of? Are they seeing things that we are not seeing, which seems to us magical, which is been spoken about in the spiritual texts so much? Are they just able to see things from a different perspective like that fly example. They're there. Now, their their view is widened a bit to the point where it's almost difficult to explain what they're able to see without being there. Does that make sense?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 35:30
Yeah, that's, that does make sense, the crude analogy would be, I'm in this room to explore my house, I need to go from room to room to room. If the walls were made of glass, and I went up in a helicopter and the roof were transparent, I could see the house as a whole. Let's be a bit more specific, both have their uses. If I want to understand the the lie of a city and its relationship to the mountains and the scenery, I grew up in a helicopter, but if I want to see where you live your street, that's not going to help, I need to come down and go and explore this at street level. So these masters can indeed, see the universal and they operate from the standpoint of the universal, which is why, why their vision, their spiritual vision is so much wider. The parent, for example, has a much wider awareness of where the child is and what it's doing, then before it became a parent, as another simplistic example, very, very close indeed have this universal vision, which they can access when needed.
Alex Ferrari 37:00
Being a parent, I understand completely what you're saying. I completely understand,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 37:07
Talking now you are aware of what's going on. If a child were being naughty, some way or the other.
Alex Ferrari 37:14
Well, you know, it's fascinating, I find that before my children, I didn't see this, but be after my children, I'm able to see the potential, or the probability of something going wrong by the axis that they're beginning to do. And it's not apparent all the time. But like, and it's weird, because I walked by, and I look, I go, that class is gonna fall, that class is gonna be that glass is gonna break.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 37:40
They know it. And you know, this is going to lead to tears.
Alex Ferrari 37:43
Oh, yeah, exactly. And but it's almost a sixth sense that parents have. And I see it all the time. And I stopped them from a lot of times, I stopped him from doing I'm starting to let them do it. So they learn, because I keep stopping them because I keep seeing what they're about to do. But that is that's very interesting in our conversation, because that is an awareness that did not exist prior to having children. I think parents listening will agree with us that that there is a different perspective. So on a spiritual standpoint, these masters have been able to heightened their awareness and those eyes those, that vision, if you will, has been open to them by their own meditative practices by their own abilities going inward and so on. And it explains a little bit about what this these kinds of magical quote unquote stories of things that Yogi's could do or even Jesus did, or Buddha, did. These ideas start to make a little bit more sense. Is that a fair statement?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 38:44
It does make complete sense. Because what we call magic is our misunderstanding or our lack of understanding of the higher laws and the higher principles, which they, as a result of the evolution and their status have managed to access and use very wisely and very sparingly.
Alex Ferrari 39:10
Right, that's very true. Yeah. Generally Yogi's aren't walking around going, Look what I can do.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 39:14
No, no, ignore anyone who says, right, if anyone's like, false idols and false gurus,
Alex Ferrari 39:24
There was one there was one story I saw that there was a, a yogi that came and spoke to another yogi. He's like, look what I can do. And he levitated across the river to the other side. And I just wanted to show off to this one yogi, because he had focused his entire life on that power that that yoga and power and then the other Yogi's, like, what do you think he goes, I use the bridge. Like I just walked across the bridge. Why did you waste decades on doing that when you could have easily just walked the bridge? Why wouldn't you spend that time even evolving beyond this ego.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 40:01
Well said, there is a an injunction in the yogic philosophy and in the awkward silences if I may use the word occult in the true sense of the invisible laws. Use the minimum amount of energy for a certain result. Don't use the sledge hammer hammer to crack a nut in other words,
Alex Ferrari 40:28
Right! Very true.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 40:29
So only use high octane energy when you need it. Very limited across the bridge when you could swim across it or use the bridge.
Alex Ferrari 40:43
Right! It's an across the river. I mean, it's a nice, it's a nice parlor trick. Yeah, but the amount of energy it took to learn that, that yogic power could have easily been focused on higher resolution.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 40:57
Yes, and not only that, it would run counter to your further evolution and progress correct would definitely run counter. There would be an inner deterioration for misusing a higher power as a party trick.
Alex Ferrari 41:16
Now, I would love to hear your thoughts on the work that's being done now in psychedelics and consciousness. What is your what is your experience with psychedelics and consciousness? Because it's another field of consciousness that is unquantifiable and cannot be explained by the material realism of of science and physics, because it's just beyond what they're doing. They're trying to figure it out. But it's almost like a child trying to solve, you know, a trigonometry. It's so far beyond them.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 41:51
Yes. I've written a heavy piece on psychedelics in the book, and I'm completely against it. Now, let me say I'm in no way am I knocking the use of psychedelics? For serious psychiatric problems? Yes, or No, I mean, I really mean that for serious depression, but do use psychedelics. As a means let's have a glass of whiskey, let's take a bit
Alex Ferrari 42:23
Correct it's irresponsible,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 42:25
It's and it has serious side effects. For a start, if I want to, let me give you this example, if I'm raising my consciousness using psychedelics, I am bursting, so to speak, into a region that I'm not qualified to enter. So, for example, I love playing the piano. I've played the piano all my life and I have a beautiful Steinway, I would love to give a concert in Carnegie Hall or or Festival Hall. There are two ways I can do it. One is to qualify. Practice 10 hours a day to win a competition and be invited. The other stupid way is to burst into the hall. You know, blow the pianist off and you know, play the piano. A stupid example. But am I qualified to do that? No. If I climb the Himalayas, I wish to climb it. I don't want to go on a helicopter on top and say I've climbed the Himalayas. But there's a more serious point, psychedelics disorder, the inner nature. Rudolf Steiner, Levitsky and all have warned against the disorganization of the etheric body the Linka Ferreira, the, the model body, the energy field. What psychedelics also do is cause a disorganization in the Pituitary and the Pineal. So, to resort to psychedelics is ultimately to ask for one's inner deterioration. There is only one way, the way of truth, purity, philanthropy, meditation, study, all of that
Alex Ferrari 44:31
The hard way. They said they're cheating.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 44:33
It's not the cheating literally the hard way to joyful way.
Alex Ferrari 44:37
No, you know, I mean, the long path, it's the long path versus the long short.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 44:42
You're not bursting into the bank. You're, you've earned it.
Alex Ferrari 44:47
And that's it. That's so interesting, because, you know, I've studied Rom Das as well and Rom Das. He did, yes. And he specifically said he's like I kept taking trips, but I couldn't Stay, then it was it was just fleeting, it would go in and out in and out, till finally him at the MA Rashi. And he's like, I met a person who was there all the time. And truly, and he's like, I want to learn that. And that was a big lesson for him. One of the founding fathers of most of psychedelics in the 60s.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 45:21
But if you take a psychedelic, have a trip experience, and then it spurs you then to walking the path, that's fine. It's an experience. Right, but it's not a substitute.
Alex Ferrari 45:34
It can't be a substance you can't cheat. Yeah, but it is a doorway in. And I've had I've had, I've had a veteran veterans of war veterans who are now taking in clinical settings, psychedelics, to take care of their PTSD. He told me on the show, he's like,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 45:54
I wouldn't say Alex, a war veteran. If you think of the trauma, right! My goodness, then I would say it's a psychedelic, it's medicine for them. Correct! And, yeah. Nice to hear it.
Alex Ferrari 46:11
Yeah. So it does have its place, but it is a powerful tool, like anything else. And you will not find enlightenment through a psychedelic?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 46:20
No. Or if you do, you will pay a heavy price. If you keep using it.
Alex Ferrari 46:26
Right, exactly. Because it's again, it's something that you just can't stay there.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 46:30
And, and the heavy price very often is psychic attacks. Because you opened your gateway, you've rented the protective veil of the etheric body. And, you know, you hear people saying on a bad trip or a good trip, and you've opened yourself up to entities that would not normally hook into you.
Alex Ferrari 46:56
Right! It's like trying to be a professional American football player, and you are playing in high school. And if somehow you snuck your way into an NFL game, you're gonna get run over pretty
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 47:08
Alex Ferrari 47:09
And kicked hard and beat up pretty hard. Because you're just not ready for that. So someone like a Yogananda? Who was able to go there whenever he wanted to. Yeah, because of years of training. And, and, you know, just going down this long spiritual path can just go there instantly, because he was strong enough to play the game, if you will.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 47:33
Yes. Well put play. Yes. Very well put, I couldn't put it better play the game. According to the rules,
Alex Ferrari 47:40
Right there. And there are rules, like you said, you can sneak onto the field. And there's nothing stopping you from doing it. But beware,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 47:50
You can rushed into a concert hall
Alex Ferrari 47:52
And play the piano, because security will take you out security will take you out eventually, you know audience will boo you and the audience is going to boo you so it's not what you want. But there is there is place for depression and other traumatic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's, it's just a powerful thing. But I am glad that there's a lot more research happening now. It's not been demonized like it was
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 48:16
No, that's good at Imperial College, for example, where I went,
Alex Ferrari 48:23
Exactly, exactly, exactly. Now, could you do you held up the book by Yukteswar, the holy science, which is one of my favorites. In that book, he talks about the Hugo's the, the cycle of, of enlightenment, if you will, of this other species of us, do you believe that we were, we are now rediscovering knowledge that has been lost in centuries past?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 48:50
Yes, we are so to speak, cycling backwards in order to go forwards. That sounds paradoxical. Right? We are rediscovering knowledge which was lost because in the midst of antiquity, the human body, he was entirely different. We were much more open the psychic faculties were much more augmented, shall we say? But having acquired our coats of flesh that has been shut down a bit, so to speak, and we are rediscovering this ancient wisdom, this ancient knowledge on a higher turn of the spiral. So what we knew, semi unconsciously unconsciously, we are now rediscovering in full awareness and consciousness
Alex Ferrari 49:45
And, and hopefully going to a place that we haven't been before beyond where we've been before. I'm done above. Right, exactly, because I mean, not to get into the pyramids in you on all the things that they're discovering around the world, just going this doesn't make sense. The concepts, the things that they've been telling us over the years, as far as science archaeology that you know, we live started 5000 years ago. I'm like, Yeah, well, how is it that they built the pyramids? But really? Exactly like really? 5000? If that's the case, then how can we can if we tried to rebuild the pyramids today, it'd be mammoth,
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 50:29
You would never get a 25 tonne, granite capstone on the top with all the slaves and all the scaffolding in the world. And all the heavy lift, craning
Alex Ferrari 50:41
Even if even if we wanted to try to do in the preciseness of it. And the the hidden math in it.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 50:49
Yes. And people have found it so precise that you can all you can not even slip a piece of paper. So this was a technique of etheric energy for wanting a better word that they had access to using sound. I heard that yeah, using sound. And there is a place in India that are visited called Shiva pool, where I witnessed and I was very young than levitating stones, and we're talking of how much does a stone of that size weigh on us a 50 pounds by putting your finger just touching it with your finger, and you needed seven people or 11 people. But the mantra was Kamali dervish, who was the name of the local Sufi, saint. And that, obviously, this wisdom had been passed down. Unfortunately, I didn't have a movie camera.
Alex Ferrari 51:53
That would be amazing to do. And a lot of this knowledge that we're talking about has been passed down from centuries of knowledge. And in science is just ignored it. And it's just so I feel that it's opening up. And I think it started with the, the, not the invention, but the remembering of quantum physics. And when these ideas started to come in, it started to start to crack this materialism it is it's in from your understanding, scientists are becoming a little bit more open minded, again, not in mass. But there are more now than there were.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 52:31
And scientists, what they say, at university is entirely different from what they say at home to their families, and they have to maintain that mask of respectability. But it is also important that some of this, a lot of this knowledge is not released, because it would absolutely play havoc. I mean, look with what we're doing with nuclear power, for goodness sake. So if we had access to higher energy forms, given on the mass state of human morality and ethics, we just annihilate ourselves. So they saying in The Secret Doctrine, that the Ark of Sciences, the invisibles, laws of Nature and Science, aka science only drops its pearls far and wide apart. And only when the pressure of evolution demands that this be necessary, because you've got pearls in front of swine, rather than pearls to be used in the most beautiful sense,
Alex Ferrari 53:49
Is that why if you for lack of better word, the quantum field or whatever you want to call it, the universe, the the other side, whatever you want to call it, that information, when it's ready to be released comes through at the moment that it needs to come through and not before.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 54:07
Absolutely, Alex, no one could have put it better. Yes, one sees many examples. Typically in mathematics, Newton, and Leibniz when they formulated the calculus. In music, one sees a particular art form coming through different minds so prepared minds will access the universal cloud of knowing. So when a certain knowledge is needed, that's when it is put through. And if I'm you say this was the central thrust of the Theosophical Society, yeah. And if I can just say that one of the great things you're talking in the middle of the night In sanctuary, that between degrading religious superstition, superstition, and even more degrading scientific, brutal materialism. The white dove of truth knows not where to put her very foot. So, one of the reasons for this outpouring of wisdom 32 sofka. Society was not was not to divulge Arcot secrets, but to inculcate a brotherhood of humanity, which could only be done by showing these higher laws of nature, and showing that man and universe are not just put together by blind chance. So there was that outpouring of wisdom then, because science was charging ahead, but it completely ignored the spiritual side. And it needs to be countered with the esoteric and Yaakov wisdom. So you're absolutely right things come through when they're needed. Yeah. Mines through prepared minds
Alex Ferrari 56:11
Right, it would be the equivalent and I've said this on the show before the the idea of me going back to the 1800s and going, here's the internet, explain the internet, explain Wi Fi explain a cell phone explain a car or
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 56:25
Vocabulary, then? Well, I would they would'nt think the 18th century,
Alex Ferrari 56:30
They wouldn't even understand they weren't prepared for that information.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 56:35
One good example of that, when you said people are beginning to science are beginning to open up you have interviewed Ervin Laszlo. Yes, I love Ervin. As the idea of Akasha is now in his book, right? He says it is the womb to which everything we perceive with our senses as they emerged, and into which everything will ultimately read ascend. The Akashic Record is the enduring record of all that happens, and has ever happened in the whole universe. Now that's comes from a scientist,
Alex Ferrari 57:10
A Nobel nominee 2 time, 2 time nominee
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 57:15
of the of the Budapest club. Yeah. So it is slowly trickling.
Alex Ferrari 57:22
It's fascinating, excuse me, for something like the Akashic Records, which I've talked about. And I, in my research discovered that the Akashic records are talked about in the Vedas, I had no idea I had no idea because I was just in the research, and because I thought it was a new age like, Hey, man, it's the Akashic records. And when I found out that it was in the Vedic texts, 4 5 6000 or older years ago
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 57:45
Newton referred to it as aetatr aetatr not etatr, aetatr
Alex Ferrari 57:52
So this concept of the Akashic records is now coming in which then quantum physics is starting to try to explain this idea, which is so far beyond our capability of even understanding it is the equivalent of me going back to the 1700s. And saying, this is an iPhone, it's that far removed, but our minds are a little bit, a little bit more open to understanding our concept now, but still not widely accepted. But maybe in 50 years, maybe in 100 years, these ideas will come up. Doctor did tell me about your books, because I mean, you it took you, you wrote these books in about a week, right? A week or two, it didn't take you long to write these books at all right?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 58:39
For each week, each day of the week, substitute about 10 years.
Alex Ferrari 58:44
Exactly, exactly. This is a massive, massive library, if you will, for volumes of unfolding consciousness, very difficult concepts to talk about how long tell me about the books? How long did it take you write it and why you decided to write it?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 59:02
What if I say to someone, why do you love this lady or gentleman and you come up with lots of reasons you don't really love her, you have an investment. I love her because of her money or her looks or whatever. So my driving force was really, really a love of the subject. But then one has to be practical. You know? A composer writes a symphony because he loves it, but he has to use the instruments and he has a timeline. My driving motive was, again, this whole question of scientific materialism, which is so triumphant in its field, but it's so impoverished and so constipated in what it cannot deal with, as Schrodinger Nobel laureate As a great student of the Vedanta said, we do not live in this world that science constructs for us. And he said in his lectures at University College, I'm very astonished that how deficient the scientific picture is. Science going to explain how the waves of rarefaction and sound waves impinging is and we have a process in the brain. But why? Why does an old song reduce us to tears? Experience it cannot explain. And then he says that science tries to explain these things. But the answer is a city that were not inclined to take them seriously that Schrodinger. So there are reasons. So bottom my driving motive was to try and redress this balance. My first book, The snake in the rope, was to show how are called Science, the perennial philosophy resolves conundrums in science. And this, this set of four volumes is in a sense, ongoing. Interestingly, looking back, my ideas were implicit. But the more I was writing, the more they became explicit. Implicit means rolled in. Explicit means turned out. So I had this implicit love and desire to write but the more I was writing, the more my reasons clarified.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:41
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:01:42
To write to suggest that it's not so difficult to read, because I have a summary of each chapter. But the beginning, I have a synopsis at the beginning of each chapter and the lead from each chapter to the next. Index of nearly 90 pages.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:02
Good Lord. God bless my friend!
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:02:05
And five languages in the glossary.
Alex Ferrari 1:02:08
Good Lord, well, let's, I'm going to ask you a few questions ask all of my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:02:18
My definition of, or my experience of living a good life is living a life where I'm fulfilling my potentiality. And I can never fulfill my potentiality, just by living for myself. So it means the flowering, think of a bud that flowers into petals. So there is that bud, me, the petals I wish to flower, our music, science, and what I'm writing about. And a flower should admit a fragrant perfume, not because the flower is so vain, because it is natural nature. So a good life for me has nothing to do with material possessions other than one basic leanings. And I made the point in a couple of chapters of the difference between inner poverty and outer poverty. If you think of poor Jeffrey Epstein and his unfortunate accomplice, he was not short, a few millions. He was not short of complete indulgence, where did it get him? So a good life is always to grow the inner riches. And the older one gets, the more one should grow inwardly. When one is young, one grows outwardly if you don't grow, if you're two inches at the age of 10, something's wrong. So, there is the outer growth, and then there is the inner growth. So a good life is to grow inwardly, ever more ever more. Because the soul of man and my man, I mean mankind, but each person is limitless. And the only limitations are what we put on ourselves.
Alex Ferrari 1:04:26
Well said, my friend, well said, What is your definition of God?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:04:34
I don't define. Well, I said earlier, about the apathetic and the caterpillar. God is not this not that. Not that. And then, in the past, Cesar Astron, which is my religion I was born into we ever saying the 101 names of God. Islam has the 99 names 99 does not mean 100 minus 100. If one doesn't mean 100 plus one, it means infinite. So, my understanding is, it is the universal field of intelligence, of consciousness, conscious matter if you like conscious substance, which informs all of the universe. And Silla, the great shallow Beethoven, of course, so immortalized, said the, the universe is thought of deity. And since and because this thought has overflowed into actuality, the universe there off, has realized the plan of its creator creator doesn't mean a chap with a white beard, you know, didn't run consciousness. So it is our task of every intelligent being to try and understand the original purpose.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:05
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:06:10
Alex Ferrari 1:06:13
Fair enough, my friend, fair enough, and where can people
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:06:18
In harmony with the world mind
Alex Ferrari 1:06:25
I have to ask, what is the world mind?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:06:27
The world mind. I mean, it is the the field of consciousness that informs our personal existence, depending on the yoga, and depending on the age we live in.
Alex Ferrari 1:06:42
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work that you're doing?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:06:49
Oh, gosh, I'm not used to self advertising. I do have a website. Another way of finding out is, please speak to Alex. He's a wonderful person. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to him. The other person is Ann Kelly who is doing a wonderful job for me in the as my PA assistant. I would always say the messenger does not come first, I'm the postman the message. It is most important.
Alex Ferrari 1:07:29
Agreed. That's what I tried to do here in the show. That's what I constantly am trying to do.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:07:33
I can I can sense that. But you can't have the message without the
Alex Ferrari 1:07:38
A messenger. Your Messenger. Yeah, absolutely. And do you have any final words for our audience?
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:07:46
Yes, there is a way and it is that the the principle that gives life dwells in us and is around us. It cannot be seen or touched or smelled. But it can be discerned by anyone who desires wisdom.
Alex Ferrari 1:08:13
Dr. Edi thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been such a pleasure and honor speaking to you and thank you. Thanks for the work you're doing.
Dr. Edi Bilimoria 1:08:21
My honor as well.
Links and Resources
- Edi Bilimoria – Official Site
- Books by Edi Bilimoria
- Earthing.com: End Inflammation Today – Discover the Science-Based Healing Powers of Earthing/Grounding
- FREE Mindvalley Spiritual Masterclasses
- MUSE 2: The Brain Sensing Headband – Meditation Tracker Headset Device
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