Following Jesus Won’t Save You – Consciousness That Is Changing the World with Betty Kovács

Following Jesus Won’t Save You, but acting as Jesus taught will get you closer to God or source energy!

Author Betty J. Kovacs, Ph.D., a recognized expert, shares her knowledge and passion through her books, speaking, teaching, and media interviews in the United States and Europe. She speaks to national and global audiences through webinars, keynote presentations, and media interviews. She received her Ph.D. from the University of California, Irvine, in Comparative Literature and Theory of Symbolic/ Mythic Language.

She taught Literature, Writing, and Symbolic/Mythic Language for twenty-five years. She served many years as Chair and Program Chair on the Board of Directors of the Jung Society of Claremont in California and sits on the Academic Advisory Board of Forever Family Foundation.

Within a three-year period, she experienced the deaths of her mother, her son, and her husband in separate automobile accidents. While she had studied shamanism before her son’s accident, she and her husband experienced their son’s consciousness after his death for an extended period. These experiences completely changed their lives. Her first book, The Miracle of Death: There Is Nothing But Life, is about these altered states of consciousness.

After her retirement, she began an intensified period of research into our ancestors’ experience of a vaster consciousness, Cosmic/Christ Consciousness, which she relates in her new book, Merchants of Light: The Consciousness That Is Changing the World, winner of the Nautilus Silver Book Award and The Scientific & Medical Network 2019 Book Prize.

Please enjoy my conversation with Betty Kovács.

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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 207

Betty Kovács 0:00
We can't heal it if we don't know what it is, you know, we can't heal. It's always first in ourselves. In what way am I complicit with that darkness? I have to heal that in myself.

Alex Ferrari 0:20
I'd like to welcome to the show Betty Kovács. How you doin Betty?

Betty Kovács 0:23
Good! Thank you Alex!

Alex Ferrari 0:25
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to talk to you you and your work and what you've done. And you're doing in the world trying to spread the message that you're spreading into the world. And hopefully, we can help that out a little bit here on the show today.

Betty Kovács 0:37
Thank you.

Alex Ferrari 0:39
So my first question to you is, how did you begin your spiritual journey?

Betty Kovács 0:43
Would you know I think it began as a child, really, my brother and I used to play out in nature. And there were, there was no television, no iPhones. And I think baby radio, we might have watched a half an hour on Sunday, not watch, listen. And so we were always out playing and creating stories. And we were always wondering how, as we put it in our trailers, language, how come all this anyway? Are we just always request? How come all this? And then we play games like, Oh, what is it? What if it didn't exist? What if there wasn't a world? No, we would play that, you know, Squeaks and our eyes to go eyelids together and say it and say it and see it until I think I would feel almost like I might have hit nothing. And then uhm, the whole universe would come back into bloom. And it was funny, because later, when I was doing classical studies, that's what they said is that being comes always from non being. These are the polar opposites, but nothingness is the birth is what gives birth to Bing. And so we were just always playing these kinds of games, because we didn't know anything. And so I found no way to know anything. I, we didn't even think in terms of belief, you know, it was like, how do you know, and trying to figure it out. And so I had to go to university. And there, of course, I came up against a scientific worldview, which was dreadful, the worst that could possibly be. And I found out later from my studies, of course, that science was limited from the beginning by the church to only study matter. So it really wasn't the scientists fault that we receive such a dreadful, limited worldview. And of course, quantum physics has brought that full circle, and completely gone beyond that limitation to a multi dimensional world. So anyway, that it was and then one evening, I was dating a young man who just finished his studies at Andover Newton Seminary. He had his first church and he had a party. And so here were many of the men who had gone to the seminary with their girlfriends. And they were talking about Carl Jung, and physics and mathematics. And I didn't know a thing. They were saying, really, I didn't understand anything. But I listened. And afterwards, we went into his study. And I saw Carl Jung's modern man in search of search of a soul. And I thought, Well, if there's a soul alignment search, and so you'll really became a, a beautiful mentor. He had both scientific knowledge, and he had had profound experiences in the spiritual world. And so then after that, I went into teaching and it wasn't really until there were the deaths in my family that I actually could say that I opened up finally to that spiritual world, and experienced it took a long time.

Alex Ferrari 3:43
Yeah, it tends, it tends to be a journey to say the least.

Betty Kovács 3:47
Well, especially in a world that is denied it for centuries, you know?

Alex Ferrari 3:51
Right. That's it. I mean, today's world, I feel that there's so much more awakening happening around the world that conversations like this are are more commonplace, more accepting.

Betty Kovács 4:02
Oh, absolutely. Nothing like that. When I was in college.

Alex Ferrari 4:06
No, didn't when I was growing. I wasn't when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. There was just this wasn't even a constant conversation, the conversation of a psychic or a medium or the other side or near death experience, these things just did not do. They were so on the fringe.

Betty Kovács 4:25
Except I was teaching mythology, I started teaching in the 70s mythology, and everyone was just absolutely hungry for that. The class would be filled every semester because we were talking about other people's spiritual traditions, mythology and what could possibly be, and the students were wonderful in the 60s and 70s. I loved it, but they were that was what it was beginning.

Alex Ferrari 4:52
Right, and then you is still limited to a classroom not exactly 10s of 1000s Millions of people around the world watching a video You're like this. Yeah, you could be anywhere in the world and have access to this information where before it was behind closed doors, you needed to get to a university that happen to have an open minded teacher like yourself, teaching these things. And then because people are hungry for this information, I've noticed that they're starving, and they still are now more than ever, I think,

Betty Kovács 5:23
Oh, absolutely. And that was what was so exciting about teaching the classes that it was in a city college. So some were adults, I mean, not adults, but already finished college and having a profession. The others were younger students, we all came together. And they, I learned from them, you know, we were in this together, Discovering Together these things. And yes, it was a hunger than and more so now. And in my book, I point out that, this under this, this knowledge has always been underground. Because we started out from the cave cultures and the megalithic and Egyptian and so on, we actually had a deep and profound spiritual tradition in the West. But it was absolutely censored. By the Deuteronomistic. And the Roman church, it had to go underground. So there was the death and rebirth mysteries of Egypt and hermeticism became alchemy. And then the Jewish first Temple was a shaman mystic temple that was destroyed by the Deuteronomy is underground as Kabbalah. And then mystic Christianity underground, these were so alive. And it has actually re emerged in culture, five times. And in the book, I talked about those four times in detail as the fifth. But each time they were destroyed and pushed back underground. Today, we've got to make it because we're up against almost a dissolution of the human being if we don't,

Alex Ferrari 6:53
Right, exactly. And you know, for people listening, that when you say that this knowledge has been lost and found again, five, this is the fifth time now it's underground. It's always kind of been there. It's the same concept. As you know, tomorrow, everyone's wiped out. And we and we, you know, it's 10 of us. And we start building the planet up again, we'll talk of a thing called gravity. And people are like, What are you talking about? Like, what does that even mean? Like, well, there's this thing where on earth, what this is knowledge, this is basic understanding knowledge that has to be brought back up. And the concepts that I talked about on the show and you talk about in your work, are things that we're reminding people of these basic understandings that makes more sense of the universe makes more sense of us, you know, that the earth is revolving around the Earth, the Sun took took a couple minutes for people to figure that out and accept that, without that is common knowledge for most people.

Betty Kovács 7:50
Yes, yes. And it also not only was it maintained underground, but it was in our psyche, it was already there. That's, that's who we are. Because all of these true stories about who we are, are organized by the organizing principles of the human psyche. And as Jung says that, a change a renaissance, a turn, will come first of all in a dream. So we are prepared for it through our dreams. And then when this information begins to come, for various reasons, we can relate to it, but it's always in us.

Alex Ferrari 8:29
It's always there, because our higher self knows all of all of this and we're just trying to remember it little by little. So your work really focuses on the shamanistic ancient cultures, the wisdom within those ancient cultures. How can those that wisdom lead us today to a greater understanding of who we are?

Betty Kovács 8:52
Yes, well, I will tell you how I did with me is that as I started going back, and for a long time, you know, the, in the cave cultures, here are these incredible paintings, and incredible experiences had to have taken place there. I visited those caves. And I read all of the disagreements about what was really going on. But when you're in the caves, you know, they're Shaman. There's some shamanic rituals have taken place there. And finally, experts who were working in the field did write about that. And of course, they were made fun of by the other scholars, you know, that's what always happens. But nevertheless, I think it's very clear that here we had 40,000 BCE, shamanism really developed sort of spontaneously all around the world, is that somehow or other, we got to the point that we could trigger that valve that reduces our consciousness so we can live everyday life. As Bergson said, we are all universal mind. That's who we are. But we have above that limits that so we can do our daily lives. If, and of course, any spiritual tradition has to know how to release that trigger, so that we can experience it. So but when the censorship came no triggers for sure, because the church did not want us to experience that vastness within ourselves, because we wouldn't need the church and the way that they wanted us to need it. They said, God's outside of us, this mystic knows everything is within us. So that's has been the great problem of limiting that. So that we trying to limit the mystic because the mystics were the heretics for the church.

Alex Ferrari 10:43
Yeah. And that's the thing that it's one of the common things I talk about on the show all the time, is that that the answers are within you. I even said that when I was coming growing up. As a former Catholic, I was like, Why do I need a middleman? Talk to God, I don't understand that. Like, and, and all these concepts of, you know, God being very egotistical. And in the Bible. The Old Testament God is, you know, he's vengeful, he's angry. He's, he, you know, he, he kills. I mean, he's pretty, pretty rough guy, and it is a guy, let's make sure it's clear in that book. It is a guy, no question about it. So I just that didn't make sense to me. And as I've gotten older, you know, you know, having a family and things like that you go, like, there's nothing my child could ever do. For me to banish them for an eternal hell. Like, the concept of hell, in general, is just ridiculous. And it just doesn't make any sense to me, you know? No, because it also those older, you know, even the older ideas of the shamanistic mystics, they, you know, I've really dug deeply into the eastern mystics, the yogic philosophies, the Vedic reading the Vedic texts, and the Vedas and those kinds of things. Because they made sense to me. When I read them, I'm like, Oh, this, this all makes sense to me. But every one of them every idea in the yogic philosophy is focused on, it's inside you, Oh, of course, everything's inside of you. And you are the connector to, to exact to God and yourself, because you are a God in

Betty Kovács 12:20
Exactly we are. That's our intention, when to know we are all divine. We are that cosmic consciousness. And we are immortal. And we are creators. And we had that in the West. I mean, the shaman develop me they were somewhat mystical, and then became mystics. And if they could say or live long enough, they became scientists. So but it was a science born out of the experience of the universe. In the east, they never talk about belief. They don't say my faith. No, it's either we know it, or we don't know it. And the but that's with suppression and, and repression by the Deuteronomistic. And the church is that it's all about belief, nothing, all of the techniques for experiencing who we are, were not lost, but simply destroyed or lost or denied. So yeah, but the great thing that I discovered in the studies is that we had, you know, from the cave cultures, the megalithic culture, the Egyptian cultures, incredible culture, they may have really had a theory of everything. I mean, they that was just incredible culture, which I think no, we were beginning to be able to open up to, but so were the pre Socratic philosophers. When I said that I didn't know they were mystics, but they also, but they knew how to achieve Samadhi. They were like the Easterners and yet they were destroyed. They tried to influence Plato. But Plato didn't go that direction with them. And it became more rational for the West. Maybe later he did, but it was already the rational that took over. But we had this again and again, in our own culture. And it was destroyed.

Alex Ferrari 14:11
I mean, right, the knowledge that was lost by the Mayans, because of the Spanish conquerors that literally destroyed 1000s of scrolls of knowledge that was lost. And I do truly believe though, you know, looking at it more from a cosmic point of view that this all happens for a reason. And there's a journey that the entire species as a whole has to go through the losing and coming you know, gaining the knowledge and losing the knowledge and growing a little bit more back and keep going up and down. Because it doesn't, even in the last 3000 years. Well, we've been able to do technologically in the last 100 is insane Why all of a sudden Do we have the ability to have Car, the internet, you know, few all this, it just all of a sudden just showed up all this knowledge showed up everyone awoke to get all this knowledge and last couple 100 years but last three, three or 4000. We didn't have that knowledge. So it's interesting to see how we all kind of as a, as a species decided, oh, it's time to move everything forward a little bit. And I believe that's happening now on a spiritual standpoint. Do you agree?

Betty Kovács 15:26
I, I do agree that we are. I think, though, that because of the suppression, there's too severe suppression and repression, that our evolution was thwarted. Okay. And but I'm not, I agree with you to, to somewhat, but I, I've been so horrified with the fact that even modern scholars are saying, well, yes, we should have developed the left brain first. And then now we can go back to the right brain, the symbolic brain that really ignites the higher brain centers and the heart, because the heart is the fifth brain component that connects us to the spirit field or the subtle world. And, and then some scholars are saying, well, this is the way we should have gone. But look what we've done by going this way, and how many people have suffered, and when we think, you know, of just people killing each other. And like one young man who killed so many people, he said, The world is dead. And I think there's so many young people that are born into this world of emptiness, there's no way to find anything belong beyond what the church is saying. And that does that doesn't work for them. It's emptiness. And we've every so much of what we've created has been used for destructive purposes. And I think we may destroy ourselves with this. Because we're out of balance. All of the underground traditions show the blueprint for developing the whole brain in debt, letting that right brain it's older than the left, and fee it feeds into the left so that we feel thoughts so that we work together is one of the first symbolic theorists, Giambattista Vico, in the 1700s. He was talking at the same time these French philosophers were saying there's nothing but logic all the rest is nonsense. He was saying no, no, no way. The right brain is the symbolic brain is our gives us our first language. And it should not be reduced to logical language, nor should logical language be reduced to it, there must always be a dynamic and integral continuum of movement between the two. Otherwise, we create monstrosities of four cultures. And now, where I agree with you on that, though, is that I think we do have to go through losing things and not knowing what the heck is going on. But I, we have lost so much and created such darkness, darkness that sees us as flawed. The Deuteronomy has told us we're flawed, we're not worthy of the Garden of Life. Now these technocrats, yes, is flawed, we can only be hauled by merging us with the machine. And as a matter of fact, now getting rid of even the left brain, letting AI take over and oh, we're not responsible? I think we are, it has, it has created such a danger that we have really got to come forth with this spiritual knowledge now in order to, in order to integrate that darkness and transform it.

Alex Ferrari 18:38
And that's what I'm trying to do here with the show, bring people like yourself out to the mass to a mass audience that hopefully will listen for people who are looking for this information. Now, you know, you were mentioning that people have taken ideas and so much death has happened over especially over organized religion. I mean, my favorite, my my favorite, but my, one of the best examples of that is the Crusades. And like, you know, because Christ, if you don't believe in Christ, I must kill you because that's exactly what Christ said. So, can you talk a little bit about this Jesus myth, and the Jesus that we know and the mystic Jesus which is talked about in the east, very much so by people like Yogananda and other people along other Yogi's talked about Christ Consciousness talked about Christ. As a mystic. Can you talk a little bit about that myth?

Betty Kovács 19:30
That is so important, that's one of our true stories that was destroyed, and a false story put in its place. Margaret Barker has done some beautiful work on the first temple tradition in Judaism as a shaman mystic, Temple tradition, and the Deuteronomy 621 BCE. We don't even know who they are, but they were praised who came in. All of this is wrong, they destroyed the tax. They got rid of the wisdom texts, they destroyed all the images of the feminine And the feminine is symbolic of the heart of the symbolic brain of feeling and love and birth, death. She is symbolic of the subtle world, the spirit world got rid of that. And fact in the Holy of Holies, the priest only the priest could enter, and there he united with the feminine, because there has to be both to behold, well, the Deuteronomy just got rid of that. And it destroyed all the images, her sacred trees are sacred groves, the wisdom texts, although Jews took much of the wisdom text to Egypt in good save them. But as far as Judaism was concerned, that's it. They destroyed that, that tradition. But she says and I, her evidence is compelling. Much later, 600 years later, there were many, many Jews who didn't go along with the Second Temple, that there are a few times in Egypt to Essenes all over the Palestinian lands, and they did not go along with the Second Temple, they were more Misko for going inward. And so Jesus was born out of that tradition. And as she points out, the rebirth of the shaman mystic tradition, and there is a tradition, it's called The Secret tradition that Jesus taught. Jesus taught a different tradition than what we received from the church, from the Roman church. And of course, that was the mystical path of going inward. And in the Nag Hammadi texts, which were texts, which were not found until after World War Two, and they were in Egypt, and the monks there around in the fourth century, when the church took full power, and made Christianity the Empire's religion, they visited that place, and every place and made it clear, you get rid of any text that doesn't have the official narrative, or will destroy them. The monks buried them. And we didn't find them until after the war. And what is so interesting is that here we see the mystic Jesus, he talks about what in the mind helps us to achieve that mystical state and so on. And of course, Mary Magdalena is the spouse. The church got rid of that too, as did Deuteronomy as well, the Deuteronomy, were earlier. But when Jesus came, that tradition, of course, was pretty definite and getting rid of all the feminine, but certainly it was with the Roman church, that Jesus could not have a consort, because the feminine was wiped out. But in the Nagamani texts, and no, we're discovering in many, many places, we see that Jesus was definitely a mystic, and that he, his partner, his consort, his wife, was Mary Magdalene, who was also a mystic. And so this is the tradition that Jesus taught, but that the church, when they took over in the fourth century, they destroyed everything they could get their hands on, that showed Jesus as a mystic, and made him a god outside of us. And they told us what we need to do to correctly worship Him. And

Alex Ferrari 23:12
What you were mentioning these books are the texts that they found, what are the names of these these texts they found in the World War?

Betty Kovács 23:18
Nag Hammadi

Alex Ferrari 23:20
Okay. And they're available? They're available for people to purchase?

Betty Kovács 23:24
Yes, yes, you can get, you can get the whole book of the Nag Hammadi text. And there's a new edition out now too. And, you know, when you go through them, it's like, Oh, really? It's kind of hard, because there are many different kinds of gnostic texts. But Meyer, is his first name. It's in my book, but I have Meyer is a round director in California. He did the Gnostic Gospels. It's a book called The Gnostic Gospels, and I don't remember his first name, Maya, and it's, he has such a good introduction, to help us to understand these texts better, some texts are clearer, others are kind of hard, but his his guidance is very helpful. And he makes it clear that Jesus in the Nagamani texts as I did not come to save you, I did not die for you. I came to remind you of who you are, do not follow me but become the Christ. Of this is a knockout this can be said I used to think when I was young, how could someone dying? Save me how you know? And why would a God not want me to know have knowledge and eat of the Tree of Knowledge? It was also crazy that we could even have had those false stories for so long as a as a astonishing amount.

Alex Ferrari 24:47
Yeah, and a lot of these some of that stuff still, that knowledge still snuck in to the Bible because I remember, you know, everything I can do, you can do as well. The knowledge is within you. Or God is within you, these little sentences here and there kind of snuck in those texts because I remember those. I remember listening to him like, Well, wait a minute, if he said that everything he could do I can do that doesn't he's then no longer God, quote unquote, that means he's here to show us the way, as opposed to, you know what I mean? It's okay. I remember that even as a child growing up, you know, studying the text, or the Bible. In Catholic school, I was, even, even with my basic understanding what was going on, I was like, This doesn't make any sense. Like, it just, there's so much that doesn't make any sense in a lot of that, that mythology that was created in the Bible, especially the old testament

Betty Kovács 25:48
Just wasn't no, it wasn't done, and they were false stories are, the story of the tree in the garden of life is totally falsified. Because the earlier 2500 BCE, before the Jewish stories, there were there are symbols of the tree of life, with fruit hanging from it, and the gods on one side and the goddess on the other, both pointing out here it is for you take it, so anyone who was ready to eat, and have that powerful mystical experience, it was there for us, it was never forbidden. Ever.

Alex Ferrari 26:29
Interesting, though, that, you know, because, again, I'm a recovering Catholic. And, and I in again, some people find a lot of, you know, solace and comfort in going down that path. And that's up to them. And that's completely fine. Any, any religion, any any idea if it helps you get closer to God in your own way without hurting anybody else? All All the better to you.

Betty Kovács 26:54
I'm with you totally on that.

Alex Ferrari 26:56
But what I also also on a logical standpoint, looking at it and go, Okay, well, the one thing that they always say, when it comes to when you're investigating something, follow the money.

Betty Kovács 27:09
And it's still true.

Alex Ferrari 27:11
And if you if you're, if you're following something that's telling you, that you they you need them in order to connect to God, and that you have to pay them and so on and so forth. There's that one path. And then there's the yogic path, let's just use as an example, because people understand what a yogi is, and, and that they never all they ever said was, it's in within you, there's no money to be made. In that path in the eastern path. That was the other thing that really kind of caught my eye. I'm like, wait, I mean, they don't, they don't want any money for me. They actually don't want anything for me, they just want to give me this information. And I could do with it as I wish. Those two energies are so different, especially if you've ever walked into the Vatican, and looked up, and there's gold on the walls, literally, the walls are made of gold. So there's something to be said there when Jesus is like, take care of each other, but yet the walls are full of gold. You know, it just didn't make any sense to me. You know, I'd love to hear what you think.

Betty Kovács 28:11
Well, I agree. But I do want to agree with you too, about the beauty in the New Testament. Oh, yes. The gospels were from a mystical group or Jesus. Probably not disciples, necessarily, but we don't really know. But they were written by people who were close to a person who was a mystic. And let's say that Jesus that I think that these mistakes were historical. Many people think that there were the therapeutic a, these Jews who didn't go along with a second temple. And who were mystics who had written these gospels, because that was the Jesus life they were living. As a matter of fact, Eusebius, who was a church father actually thought that they had written the Gospels. And so I think that as a child when I did go to Sunday school, not because my parents were part of the church, they weren't, but my brother and I always found a place where there were a lot of kids and there were programs. But I can remember hearing about Jesus and they had I don't know if you've ever seen felt boards where they put on picture of or image of Jesus and the disciples, and they talk, it was very impressive as a child, that this was the model of a man who was loving and kind and forgiving, and creative and cared for the world and cared for men and women. Unfortunately, a spouse was missing but that didn't dawn on me at the time. What was so powerful for them, and I've been in Catholic Church, especially in Europe, and especially when they're with the chanting, and and candles and music. I mean, some of the music is almost a technique for altered states of consciousness.

Alex Ferrari 30:01
The monthly of the month the Benedictine monks, gorgeous.

Betty Kovács 30:07
And I think that atmosphere before they started speaking English, I liked the Latin because I didn't know what they were saying that what's better for me, but this the ritual and the place can be absolutely wonderful, and the stories of Jesus, but no, I feel exactly the way you do. I, I could not believe I tried, but I could not believe I had to know. And I remember being so happy when I read from young when I was still in college and said, Some people cannot believe and, and they have to know they have to experience Gnosis. But I do know that people who do believe, as you pointed out, they that is a way of a spiritual life for them. And I would not want to do anything to denigrate that I saw the other day, I was watching a film about a man who really had a he had been an addict. And but then he had become a Christian. And his world was so empty. But that was his anchor. And I thought I wouldn't want to say anything in the work I do to take that away. That's his anchor. And whatever way he can develop that if it is you have said so beautifully. If it nourishes him, and doesn't hurt anyone else, I would want to support that. Because we might have to go I think we do go through many levels. But I that, that, that really I, I, I just felt so deeply about that. And I thought, I don't ever want to say anything that I on the podcast that would take a person who had been in that place of addiction, but found this freedom of love and on whatever level, you know, then I would want to support that.

Alex Ferrari 31:58
Right. And again, you know, we're speaking a lot here about the Western traditions. But I mean, there's what 2 billion who are Buddhists, another another billion who are Hindu, like there's other other paths, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. But as long as they connect you to God and you aren't hurting anybody else, all the better. But if you want to open your mind a little bit more, expand your ability, a little bit, and your awareness, there are other paths as well, if you're ready for them, or if you even want to go down them. You don't have to in this life. That's the way I'm a curious person. I love listening and hearing ideas all over the place. Because if they ring true to you, then you say

Betty Kovács 32:48
That right, that's where you are.

Alex Ferrari 32:50
If you don't if you doesn't ring true to you, move it along, and keep going the path and that's it, discard it and move on. It's yeah, I just don't I just don't agree with when you like, my way is the only way. And if you're not going to if you're not doing my way, obviously you're going to hell, or you're going to be damned or no, this is that's where the war starts. That's where war start.

Betty Kovács 33:10
And, and we always know that when someone says this is the only religion, we know that they have not had that inner experience. Because if they experienced that within there's, that isn't even an issue. They know, as all of the great mystics have said, at that place, the leaven is the same that makes the bread rise, it's all the same. It's that's where we know it's the same. It's when we get out on the fringes and start saying such crazy things as it's the only religion or the best religion or no,

Alex Ferrari 33:49
We're the chosen ones.

Betty Kovács 33:52
Once again, if once again, yes, we have to know something is amiss there. But we've we've taken this step in and kind of lived with it. But I think now is a time when we're saying no, this is a result of not knowing. And the West has been for centuries and denial of Gnosis real experience, and supporting only some type of logical or irrational knowledge whichever way you want to see it. And we can't be transformed by the intellect, we have to experience it to be transformed.

Alex Ferrari 34:26
And also another another example of that there is not only one way to get to the same destination is a yogi who finds enlightenment is and gets to that place where the bread is 11 is the same as a shaman in American Indian culture, or aborigine going down another path or a Buddhist going down another path. They all could get to the same place. There's not just the one path to get to the same destination. And that's what I hope Have everyone listening understands, it's not that I'm saying like, Oh, you have to become a yogi and live in a cave somewhere and meditate for 30 or 40 years to find enlightenment. No, it's absolutely not Jesus found that kind of enlightenment the same way that Buddha found it, but in very different ways, very, very different ways.

Betty Kovács 35:17
And we all have the potential within us to act to know that. And what I love now is that finally, quantum physics has come full circle. And I love Jude carova, and who's a physicist and cosmologist, and she says that, we now realize that we are all the manifestation of this divine consciousness that came in with not the big bang, she calls it, the big breath, that we are the manifestations of that, and we are the co creators of it. That's something we really need to know.

Alex Ferrari 35:55
And that concept of being co creators is so far beyond the materialistic world that we have been taught all of our lives is it is it's a concept of the the mystics, but now, again, because of quantum physics, and I've had multiple quantum physicist on talking about these kinds of things. It's, you know, they've discovered now that as you if they keep going down and down and down deeper and deeper into a molecule down to an atom, when they get all the way down to there's nothing but space, and energy, there's nothing really holes, and they're like, Well, what's holding us together? What makes a table a table? What makes Alex, Alex what makes Betty, Betty? Is it consciousness? And then that starts opening up another conversation and, and then we could definitely get into simulation theory, which I that's one of my questions I had for you today. Like, what is your thought on the idea of simulation theory, or the dream as, as the Aborigines say, or the great of the great illusion of the the Hindi, or the Vedic traditions? They all the same, in my in my eyes, like simulation theory is the same as that the we are living in a dream state, this is not reality, reality is really the other side. Where our souls live, what's your idea?

Betty Kovács 37:09
Well, I think that it's true that we have a source that is first, its prior to everything here. I mean, this is to say, yes, that everything that exists in the material world has a source in the non material dimension. And we realize that we have our source, and a non material dimension in the, in the subtle world, or the spirit world. And, you know, I've often thought about that. I mean, we can call it anything. But we have created this reality, in order to play these games, of the sacred games, of loving and becoming conscious and learning everything we can we, I mean, if we were the divine on the other side, I think when we come in, and we meet each other, and it's exciting, and relearn, and we love in 1000, or infinite numbers of ways, how exciting that's a divine game, that we come in and play this, we can call it not reality. I think it's, I think it's a reality we create for, for various purposes, but our source is the subtle world or the quantum field. What I love is that physicists describe the quantum field as this vast, eternal infinite sea of light, the foundation is light, it's vibrating energy. And the mystic also says it's a dazzling sea of light and vibrating energy. And so the mystic has always known about the quantum field, the field of fields, our source, but they and they have described it in feeling heart ways, whereas the physicist is describing it more in intellectual ways. But now we see it's the same field. And I think out of that field, we have the potential to do anything,

Alex Ferrari 39:07
Agreed 110%. Now, I would love to hear your thoughts on so many of these ancient sites that are being discovered around the world that it's kind of showing us our timeline is shifting. Is it Kokopelli or Teppei? The one in Turkey that's they've a they've aged that back to about 11,000 years, which then throws our entire human timeline out of the whack. And then there's other sites that are being they're being dated down to 40 or 50,000 years, but behind that, like, well, if, if what how could humans build this? This technology, things like that, but this knowledge is starting to come up where it was hidden for many years, and it's becoming mainstream even shows on Netflix are talking about these sites, which is so exciting. Why do you believe well, first of all, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it and say Secondly, why do you believe that this is the time that this information is starting to come out in the mainstream, not just in academia? Like it's really coming out in the mainstream?

Betty Kovács 40:09
Well, it's probably less so in academia.

Alex Ferrari 40:12
Yes, yes, you're absolutely right.

Betty Kovács 40:14
Actually, they deny everything. And for instance, I knew Marija Gimbutas, who was the archaeologist of Old Europe, discovering a whole world we didn't know about completely different, much fuller symbolic system. And now they're trying to get rid of her the university. But back to this. Yes. This is very exciting to me all of the archaeological discoveries from the cave cultures on and I got back a Tempe and and also in Indonesia, what is that the Gunung Padang? I think it is yes. And that could be this could have happened at the same time of the cave cultures. So I love Graham Hancock, I don't know

Alex Ferrari 40:57
I love Graham, I'm dying to get Graham on the show. And he's a very busy man nowadays, is I'm dying for him to get on the show. Because his you know, he's asking the questions.

Betty Kovács 41:07
He isn't doing the research showing here are these places,

Alex Ferrari 41:13
But he's asking the questions that traditional or mainstream archaeologists don't want to ask because it just it screws with their knowledge or their understanding. But that is the history of man, Galileo, Galileo was, you know, he was talking about stuff. And he couldn't say it because they couldn't accept those ideas, because it shifted their entire reality. That's what's happening now.

Betty Kovács 41:39
And this is the problem of censorship. But yes, I mean, even when the first cave culture was, was discovered by a man, and he saw that the portable art was similar to what he saw on the walls, and that would throw the dating way back. They almost destroyed that man with ridicule, and on and on and on. And the so called authorities wouldn't even go see the cave for 20 years. So this is what we're up against. In the universities and in the people who are in positions of power and so called knowledge.

Alex Ferrari 42:09
Is it ego? Is that what that is?

Betty Kovács 42:11
Well, I think, you know, I, you know, I guess once you have a theory about the beginnings and the realities of things, and you put your profession into it, I guess a lot of people get identified with it. But why can't we be identified with always learning something new? You know, that's just scary, though.

Alex Ferrari 42:31
That's scary. Because that enemies, because that admits that means you have to be humble, and you have to admit that you don't know everything.

Betty Kovács 42:36
That's right. And, you know, I always like to say, limitation breeds arrogance.

Alex Ferrari 42:43
Amen, sister.

Betty Kovács 42:45
We know a little bit we we've got enough sense to be humble about these things. But yes, I have really appreciated Graham Hancock and I have used his work and other people's work in these earlier cultures. What I think is that we do have enough evidence now that there was a lost civilization. And we are beginning to find pieces of it. Who was the person who does ice age? Sea Kings was what was his name?

Alex Ferrari 43:14
I forgot his name he's talking about.

Betty Kovács 43:16
It just doesn't come to me right now. I started out with him. I mean, I thought, Oh, my goodness, here, he found the maps of a whole other world long before we knew how to make the maps. Have good drills have good?

Alex Ferrari 43:27
Yeah. When Graham talks about that in his and that shows like, yeah, how was how was Antarctica on these old maps? When no one knew the Antarctic existed? We didn't figure it out to like the 1700s, or something like that?

Betty Kovács 43:37
No. So I think the evidence is in, it's coming in all of the time, we're finding older cultures. Now. Why is this happening now? Well, I address that in the introduction of merchants of light, because this is the phenomenal thing that is happening. We also discovered independent scholars discovered shaman mystic traditions we didn't know about before, basically, in the 20th century. Now, we knew about our cave cultures before, but we didn't really get any sound theories and more understanding until 20th. So all of this knowledge is coming into a new century, then we have these rogue people, thinkers who are going outside the system, and looking at what has been discovered by archaeologists. And at this, what I like about Graham Hancock is that he's done films now of, you know, these places that have been discovered and pointing out what is absolutely significant. And so I think people like that are very important to us. But I think also what is happening is that the the dark ness is also suffering surfacing, surfacing at this time, this horrible desire to control the whole globe, the technocrats who want to have a 1984 Brave New World and make merges with machine because we're not worthy to be alive. Human beings are flawed all Way from the Deuteronomistic, which I'm sure they don't realize they're still playing that game is that the human being is flawed. No, the human being is not flawed. We have the potential, we to experience who we are cosmic consciousness, but they don't know that. So all of this is coming up now. It's like, oh my God, I didn't know that there was so much this or that or the other thing? Well, we can't avoid it. Now, all of this darkness. These were brothers and sisters, who are the result of the centuries of censorship and false narratives. And that's what we're up against. So we want to bring light to heal ourselves and help to heal them, because they are a victim of this kind of thing.

Alex Ferrari 45:41
Now, would you agree that there was a possibility? Because a lot of people when they start talking about ancient civilizations and things, they start to tune out that like, that's not possible. That's not

Betty Kovács 45:50
That's brainwashing.

Alex Ferrari 45:52
Right. Exactly. That's crazy. That's all that kind of stuff. But on a logical standpoint, is it possible that 5000 years ago, there could have been a culture that we found that was more primitive, but there could have also been in a culture somewhere else that was not connected to that culture? That was more advanced? Exactly. Because if you look at today's world, you go to New York City, that's one experience, you go down into the Congo. That's another experience, you go into the Amazon, when there's tribesmen if you, whoever you found, you go, Oh, well, that's it. We assumed that everything was connected, like we are today, that the internet connects us information flowed freely. But it could very well be that there were other civilizations in the past, that might have been more advanced in certain areas than we were, but we're not connected.

Betty Kovács 46:42
I think that that is probably logically true. What hap, good saw is that this Ice Age culture, that was seafaring was a world wide civilization. That does not mean of course, that there weren't many different groups all over the world, playing the game in different ways, you know, at different stages have developed just like now. Yeah, just like now. Yes, I think that's certainly what's going on. But I love the question of why now. And I think that now is, this is the fifth time this underground tradition has, has emerged into mainline culture. And with it, it is brought all of this darkness which we can't heal it if we don't know what it is, you know, we can't heal. It's always first in ourselves, in what way am I complicit with that darkness, I have to heal that in myself. But I think we have to look at it. And we also have to look at who we are the potential of who we are. And all of these days, not all, many ancient texts and our own history in the western world shows us that I also have a part in the book about the beautiful San Bushmen here for they say 65,000 years, they've known how to achieve cosmic consciousness. And they, and through that kind of consciousness, they know a lot of a lot that we know intellectually. Same with the the people in Colombia in the High High Sierras that they were never touched by the, by the conquest by Europe. And they have kept their tradition and they go into their shamans train for nine years. And then there are some who trained for nine more, and they only see they go into very high zeros. They only see the shamans who are trained for nine. So here they are, and what do they know, they know things that quantum physicists know. It's just a knockout. And they say, it is Aluna we, which is the spirit world, they teach us we know from them, they have no books, but they know these things. So that's such a merging of the, the symbolic spiritual world with the intellectual so that they know it in a different way. So we have these, we're finding out that what has existed around the world, but and what we're also finding out what has happened to us because of the suppression of the soul of the heart, a feeling that there's a terrible sickness, a terrible cancer as a result of that. And in the Western world,

Alex Ferrari 49:32
Right and, and we, you know, you can't suppress that in the soul will come out the well. There's nothing you can do to suppress it. You might separate suppress it for generations, but every soul that incarnates comes in understanding that this is the truth. And they have to remind themselves of that truth.

Betty Kovács 49:54
That's right.

Alex Ferrari 49:56
All these great mystics that we're talking about from Jesus to Buddha to To Yogananda to so many of these other mystics that lived throughout centuries, the main common denominators, they all just discovered, or remembered the truth of who they are. Exactly all they did. And once they knew the truth, it's like you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Betty Kovács 50:19
You can't. And I wanted to say to what is so important is that after our son died, my husband and I had experiences with his consciousness with him. And he wanted us to know that, yes, of course, he was still alive and still creating. But he also wanted us to know what was coming on the earth. And then my husband had a very, very powerful vision of with my son and him telling him look up in the E Ching, in the this particular hexagram. And so I said to my husband, how do you remember that? And he said, Oh, that was easy. And then he said, it's starting from the top, straight, broken, broken, straight, straight broken. And I said, Well, how do you remember that? And he said, Well, it's easy. M L, you know, the two straight lines making the M and the slanted, and then the straight and, and fall in line. So it's ml. And I said, Well, what's that stand for? And he said, merchants of light? Well, it's a long story. I also found out later that Graham Hancock had run into merchants of light in his research and other places. And here's my, my husband was not one who studied these things. It also came up during the Rosicrucian. Period, these merchants of light now, I was so stunned when I realized that merchants of light was not some kind of strange name that he sometimes came up with English wasn't his first language. So we'd come. And but no, it wasn't these merchants of light. And gradually, I came to realize, in my visions with them, is that merchants of light are entities that are coming to the earth. During this time. Many people are being born now who are not satisfied with believing, but they're asking the questions. And it's also an energy field now that has connected to the earth, so that it's more powerful. And we can do the work more easily now. So I think that's another answer to why is all this happening. Now, I think that from the other side, the quantum field, the spirit field, is moving in and connecting to the earth. Why? Because we've asked for it, we're ready for it. And now is the time.

Alex Ferrari 52:27
So you believe that we are evolved enough to handle this information at this point in the game.

Betty Kovács 52:34
I think many are those who aren't, don't want to know about it. And they will do what they need to do. I think, though, that we need to know, the darkness that of course, we are censored to talk about. But if we don't know it, if we don't have the strength to stand firm and look at it for what it is, then it will do what it wants to do. And that's not what we want. You know, and Jesus said in the Nagamani text and kind of sum this up is that if you bring forth what is within you, what is within you will save you, if you do not bring forth what is within you, it will destroy you. And I think that's a way of looking at this darkness, they they don't see spirit, they don't see the potential of cosmic consciousness at all. They see us as unworthy. We need to merge with machine to be whatever and that they control the world. They're the God in the Garden. It's a great illness. But I think that when we need to look at that, and know that so many of my friends don't want to see what's going on. And because it's so horrible, and we're so brainwashed with 24/7 corporate news. But if we can look at that, and know it, I think that and then remember that the light is much much stronger. We have to can't get depressed and fall apart not now. We have to hold this darkness. As a matter of fact, that was one thing that came through so clearly is through the ML merchants of light, it's a time to work on that which has decayed

Alex Ferrari 54:15
And you were saying that the disease that we have, there's that other disease of of just greed and understand materialism that is so everywhere in the world, where you know, now we're getting not only billionaires were work in my lifetime, they'll probably be a trillionaire I know at a certain point, how much is enough.

Betty Kovács 54:40
It's never enough if you're it's you're sick, you're sick and their soul is looking for that fulfillment. But since our the West gave no in any way to fulfill that if we don't bring forth what is within us, then we the ego flips wrong inside out and we have to have power over or others, we have to have everything, money, money, money, things, things. But it's never enough or drugs, it's to change the, the weight is never enough, because it isn't the thing that will fulfill. And I think we just see exactly, here is what happens when we don't bring forth what is within us. We become horribly egotistical and greedy. And we must have power over. And now its power over the whole world. It's global That is wanted, you know, for a very few people, because all of their billions, can't fulfill them. And we just do some need to recognize this as a human. This is a human disease, if we don't go within, then we try to snatch the whole world, because we so needy.

Alex Ferrari 55:48
And that's never heard it put that way. But that is such a beautiful way of illustrating that idea of that if you can't find what you're looking for internally, which is much easier than trying to take over the world. And just fill your house and houses and boats and billions and billions off of these empty things that at the end mean nothing, nothing mean nothing, nothing like how big of a box do you need to live in?

Betty Kovács 56:19
And how horrible to bring our children into the world into which for them to experience emptiness. That's that worldview of limited science has almost destroyed the planet. And it was from censorship of the Roman church. The scientists themselves now have come full circle, thank God, it's a science worthy, beginning to be worthy of the universe. But we don't want children born into this emptiness. So that they kill or whatever, What's it matter? It's dead anyway.

Alex Ferrari 56:53
Right. Exactly. And and I'm hoping that conversations like this help things along a little bit.

Betty Kovács 57:00
I do too, Alex, I do too.

Alex Ferrari 57:02
I really do. Now, I'm going to ask you a few questions, ask all my guest. What is your definition of living a good life?

Betty Kovács 57:14
That's, there's so many ways to put it. But I would say that, especially as we get older, we, we certainly know I am old. And I have a deeper understanding of that. Many people are alone. And at that point, they know what is really they didn't know before they know, then our children know it too, is that the good life is when we love when we have people to love in our lives, who love us. Everything else, you know, it's if we can love, really love is the key to everything. And it really is the heart of the quantum field of the spirit world. It's yeah, if the good life is loving,

Alex Ferrari 57:55
What is your definition of God?

Betty Kovács 57:58
I think that it is the vast intelligence that is the universe, the gate, everything birth, all of us. And there are many levels of development of it or understanding of what that is, you know, we can we understand it sometimes as a man, outside ourselves or whatever, but their best differences on the scale of understanding this consciousness and some of the Renaissance periods, these mystics knew that their heart totally interpenetrated the heart of the cosmos, with love, and that love could transform the whole world. But yeah, it's, it's everything.

Alex Ferrari 58:42
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Betty Kovács 58:46
To experience that, but I think also to transform what doesn't, what isn't yet able to experience it, that is that if once we begin to catch on, then we want to experience more and more of who we are. But we want others to share in that joy, and that love and that creativity to know who they are just as Jesus, I came to remind you of who you are, what little bit of work I ever do, is to remind myself and anyone else, we are so much more, so much more creative than we think, than we've ever allowed yourself to imagine.

Alex Ferrari 59:27
And where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

Betty Kovács 59:30
Okay, it's And I have webinars and podcasts and videos and articles. And you can also buy the books. If you don't want to go to Amazon, you can go to come luck and buy them there. And also if you want to sign up for the newsletter, which gives information about podcasts and things like that, then you'll receive a a chapter from merchants of light.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:02
And do you have any final words for our audience?

Betty Kovács 1:00:06
No, just gratitude. I think, for people like you, you know that we that this is happening, that this is happening, and that we can connect. And each one of us has a sacred medicine to give. It's not like the old American idea of writing the great American novel. No, it's not one person. It's all of us together, that we can make a change all together if each of us becomes who we are.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:31
Betty thank you so much for not only being on the show, for this wonderful conversation, but for all the work you've been doing throughout throughout your life. I I truly appreciate you my dear.

Betty Kovács 1:00:40
I appreciate you. Thank you so much, Alex.

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