Yogi Anand Mehrotra is the youngest known spiritual Master in the world to develop and present the Himalayan yogic tradition in its pure and raw form. He has dedicated his entire life to bringing the original teachings of the Himalayan yogic tradition to the world and does so in a unique and powerful way. His Sattva Yoga teachings come from the Vedic tradition and merge with the pure Tantric roots as taught by the ancient Masters in the far reaches of the Himalayas where he was born and raised.
Anand is originally from Rishikesh, which is recognized as the yoga capital of the world. Rishikesh is one of the most sacred places in India. It calls thousands of pilgrims and spiritual seekers from around India and many countries of the world.
Please enjoy my conversation with Yogi Anand Mehrotra.
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Follow Along with the Transcript – Episode 230
Anand Mehrotra 0:00
All right. So from the yogic perspective, why is there anything at all? Because that's the nature of being like, why is fire hot? The fire does not decide, oh, today I'm going to be hot. And tomorrow I'm going to be cold the nature of fire is hot, the nature of water is wet. So the nature of being is to become.
Alex Ferrari 0:31
I like to welcome back to the show, Anand Mehrotra. How you doin Anand?
Anand Mehrotra 0:35
Very good, how are you?
Alex Ferrari 0:36
I am good, my friend, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I'm, I'm excited to talk to you again. You were you were popular on our last episode, last conversation has been watched by by many people, and I just love talking to you, I could talk to you for days and days and days. So I wanted to have you back and really kind of focused our conversation on the similarities between spirituality, your perspective on consciousness and quantum physics and science and how those two worlds are really starting to connect more and more on a daily basis. And many ways quantum physics is catching up with what the Vedas were talking about for 1000s of years. So can you can you tell the audience what is the Vedanta? And Are there similarities between it and quantum physics?
Anand Mehrotra 1:27
Alex Ferrari 1:28
Vedanta, thank you very much I apologize.
Anand Mehrotra 1:31
The word the word Vedanta has a few meanings. The first meaning is that it's at the end of the Vedas, right. So it refers to the collection of writings which is attached to the end of the Vedas, the way as being the oldest surviving scriptures of our world today, which are the the most voluminous bulk of the yogic tradition, right so they get a turbine, the Sama Veda. And so were the unties. The end part of the way that's the other meaning of it, Anta is it made up of two words Veda and Anta, meaning, the wholeness of knowledge, the end of knowledge, the ultimate knowledge. And so Vedanta is referring to the nature of self, the knowledge of self, for the self is at the, at the center of all knowing it is the self who knows, but if the Knower is not known, all knowledge is held in ignorance. So after speaking about the nature of reality, and all its expressions in the relative, in all the distinct roles that we play, and how to optimize our life, then the whole teaching comes down to but hey, do you know who you are? And that's where where data comes into place. And Vedanta begins with the fundamental inquiry into nature of self and the there is a unity of realization that the self nature is consciousness that consciousness is a causal, that there is no cause to consciousness that consciousness is not an emergent phenomena, but rather the foundation of reality for all realities experienced by consciousness and so it's an a deep exploration of self and which gives rise to you know, which is very mad and and talking about multiple dimensions of reality that ultimately reality is what is perceived in a certain bandwidth of consciousness like a butterfly lives in a butterfly universe and you know, elephant lives in elephant universe right so that reality confirms an elephant reality conforms to the elephants perception. The bats reality conforms to the bats bats perception the end which seems which has from a physical structure level the biggest, you know, brain to the body, right? This way when we watch ads I mean they live I'm fascinated by ads. Oh, they're always in there. They seem to be up to something but they seem so alien to us, right like but they they you realize that they are up to something there is a whole meaning to their existence beginning middle and end and their their journey has a purpose so they're always on their way somewhere. So the and lives in a very and specific universe so we find the reality conforms to the perceiver so from the Vedanta, you know, which now quantum physics is talking about the most popular the quantum physics now coming to the string theory, which you know, it's talking about multiple dimensions. And so the universe from the Vedic from the Vedanta prospective, there are multiple dimensions of reality each confirming to a particular state of consciousness, and that consciousness is not an emergent phenomena, but a causal and the nature of self is Chitta is consciousness. So everything is within consciousness, which gives to the observer effect right the as the observer, so is the observed as is the experiencer. So is the experience and that's the great as is the dancer so is the dance. That's not a Roger you know in Switzerland, the You know where they do the Hadron Collider they have they have the statue of Nataraja the dancing Shiva which points to one of the amongst other things, it points to the unity the you know the primacy of the dancer, that the dancer is ultimately the dance they know you know, the dancer has to be there before the dance commences.
Alex Ferrari 5:23
So, as they say, no, nothing exists until it's observed essentially,
Anand Mehrotra 5:29
Yeah, but the we we are talking right we are speaking, there is a question about does something exist? That question itself is being asked by some by an experiencer. So, in the absence of the experience, we cannot even fathom it, we cannot imagine the absence of experiencer. Because whatever you imagine is being imagined by an experiencer, by a Knower
Alex Ferrari 5:55
And is that consciousness?
Anand Mehrotra 5:58
That is consciousness of consciousness is what makes any experience possible, right. So, everything is experience, life is an experience any thought feeling, sensation, observation is an experience and experience is rendered, that's what experience means, that which makes contact with consciousness. So, it is consciousness that experiences it is consciousness that knows, so, the Knower is consciousness, the knowing is consciousness, and ultimately that which is known is also held in consciousness. So, the knower known and the process of knowing a lot of consciousness, so, in Bhagavad Gita is called the Chitra, meaning the field, the three Chitra Raja, the knower and Shedra get the process of knowing it's all an expression of consciousness. And so, the nature of your being is called Sat Chit Ananda, chatter being pure consciousness.
Alex Ferrari 6:55
So, how can somebody distinguish between the egos voice and consciousness?
Anand Mehrotra 7:05
So, the consciousness the another word, which is used for consciousness and this very beautiful distinction being made in the Vedanta is atman right. So Atman is the universality localized, okay. So, that is the fundamental sense of I am, so, you and I are talking and we are talking from a very you know, connected place within our being we can experience a certain level of unity the listeners who are listening to us, they are only listening to us because they can experience certain level of unity meaning they resonate with what we are saying otherwise, they would have moved on to something else by now. So, if you're still on there is a certain level of unity being experienced yet, within that unity that is also distinction. So, we are deeply connected yet we still have a unique aperture, every listener listening has a unique aperture of understanding of perception of consciousness, that unique aperture In Vedanta, is referred to as Atman, the localized universality, so the Atman, then declares a hombre mass me, I am totality, right? So the atman nature is Brahma now the atman has mind. So we have the experience, we all say, Oh, my mind is crazy, no, or my thoughts they are going crazy. Now, if the West materialist thinking believes that consciousness is an emergent phenomena, that even the AI is merely nothing but emergent phenomena within the brain, then how can that I experience its own parts as distinct from it? Maybe, but then the ayat also is a thought. So, if I also is a thought, then who is the perceiver but we know from the intimate experience of ourselves, we can have this experience that we can find ourself, actually as a distinct presence from the activity of the mind. So the eye cheetah is subtler than the mind the mind is structured within consciousness, but the eye the pure eye is subtler than the mind it is not to be found within the mind the mind rather is to be found within the eye. Now that mind has memory that is minus because why does it have memory because there is the in relative reality that is the experience of time. And time means moving from known to the unknown, right? That's why we experience time, because we remember what happened yesterday. We don't remember what happened tomorrow. So we feel we are being dragged by this arrow of time. So there is minus memory. That's one of the main reasons why we have time right? Because we have memory minus and then the second is the we have meaning making we make meaning up, right we give things meaning, we and that is called booty. And that's from where the term Buddha comes right but the is intellect and Buddha is the Awakened intellect. So, booty and then the third aspect of the mind is Ankara or ego. Okay. So, ego is the after effect of memory and meaning making, right. So the atman enters relative field of reality starts to experience space time flowing within its own field of consciousness, starts to develop memory, interacts with parents culture, listens to stories, listens to religious stories, religions to socio economic stories, watches television, all these words, our mind is a sponge it is absorbing everything minus is being formed. So the child's eyes are wide open as we are children, we are wide open, we can sleep with our eyes, our brains are developing at phenomenal rate, we are absorbing incredible information from being incapable of speaking, in few years, we start to make meaning up by putting sounds together. And so all of a sudden language is born. And then language through language stories are born. So mine generates that and then the IRM starts to be formed, oh, I am American or and then we go to school and then we find body Oh, you're not good enough, you're not pretty enough. And then that I am the atman starts to create this identity within its own mind, which is the ego. Right? So ego is a hallucination that atman has and you know, English the closest word to word to it is soul. But soul often is sometimes can be misunderstood as an isolate itself. The Atman is not isolate itself, it is just the localized universality. And that is why in Vedanta, one of the Mahabharata case, the first grade declarations of truth is a Humber must me that I am totality, who says that the atman says that. So it is important to have that distinction when we are talking about atman we are not speaking of an isolated identity, it is a unique aperture to wholeness, but its essential nature is whole.
Alex Ferrari 12:29
Right. So the concept of one or the Law of One, if you will, that we are all one, that our soul is a extension of a unique extension of the whole, the whole entity, as opposed to a separate soul that got like, is lost in the universe somewhere and it's hiding in his body, let's say it is just a unique representation of source of God of whatever you'd like to call it, of the whole. And that's the concept that seems to be coming up more and more is that we this idea of the one that we are all connected for. And Buddhist Buddha has been talking about this since he came out, which is all creatures, all things are an expression, a unique expression of the source of God, from the ant, to the blade of grass, they all have forms of consciousness, just different levels of consciousness, like a blade of grass has enough consciousness to follow the sun. And the ant does what the ant does. So is that what you're saying?
Anand Mehrotra 13:36
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Alex Ferrari 13:38
So I'd love to dive in a little bit into what you're saying and regret because I've never heard it put this way and it's so beautifully put, that there are multiple realities that we are currently living in. But the reality is based on the perception of who is seeing it, so the the the elephants reality, the answer reality, the dogs reality, these are different realities, completely my cats reality is very different than mine, we kind of share the same world but the perspectives are massively different. And but that goes with any human being as well my reality is very different than your reality. So, it from the from the Vedas point of view, what does it talk about in regards to these multiple realities or multiverse which is a key word that's being thrown around a lot? Now, the multiverse are different versions of reality,
Anand Mehrotra 14:35
Yes, from the on as far as the multiverse theory is concerned, you know, the, from the Vedic perspective, the you know, the concept of time. When we speak about universe we have to speak about time, right, because it's really time. So time and space are inseparable, right. And so, we find that from the Vedic perspective, the even the concept of time is billions of years that uh How old is the universe? Billions, right? So it says just for it's a metaphor, that in one breath of Brahma, there is 1000s of lifetimes billions of lifetimes of a human being in one breath of Narayana, this million lifetime of Brahma and one breath of Shiva, there is millions of lifetimes of run. So we are speaking of incredible scale of time. Right? And so, the, and what is the nature of pure being, it is a miracle, meaning it is timeless. Now, that's a really a very important insight, for when we speak about God as a with an address right, God as a personality, then God exists within space time somewhere. And so, if God exists within space time, then space time becomes primary God is secondary, right. So, within the Vedic teachings, there is the term called Nirach Carl Neeraj Carr, formless, timeless dimension of pure being that nature of pure Being is timeless, there is no time at that level of being. So time emerges from that level of being. And since time emerges with time emerges, what space time and space emerge together. And with it as the time and space emerge, that is universes so within every time space is a particular, within every timeline is a universe, right? So you have not one universe, you have multiple universes, like a room full of bubbles, balloons, you know, balloons, which feel like universes. So there is universes within universes and that's one of the things what Shivas dance represents, right? So do you see the circle of fire around that around that Nataraja dance of Shiva, and all those distinct flames that present a universe? Right, so the universe which is born out of this ferocious energy, of this ferocious energy, that is Shiva, that power of consciousness, the dance of Shiva Shakti, which is inseparable consciousness, the being and becoming, right, so from the yogic perspective, why is there anything at all, because that's the nature of being like, why is fire hot, the fire does not decide, oh, today, I'm going to be hot. And tomorrow, I'm going to be cold, the nature of fire is hot, the nature of water is wet. So the nature of being is to become, right. That's why Shiva and Shakti so since that being becomes it's not one universe is multiverses many universes that they their form and being created within the breadth of the cosmic being and can one have access within the the level of localized consciousness that is the atman We are experienced, we you know, we, as you were saying that we have you have unique aperture and I have unique, but there is enough overlap. Right, so there is enough overlap. So there is enough overlapping of our own unique uniqueness so that we have a certain level of consensus about what reality we perceive. When we have less overlap with someone, then we have extreme difficulty in understanding them. They appear like an alien to us, they become the villain. Right? So in writing, that's what breeds all violence and conflict in the world. Right? So in yoga, he said the the only way out is in so only way out of violence is in meaning as you go in, and you expand your awareness, you start to gain more overlap with distinct apertures. Your ability to understand the distinct approaches increases, because you're gaining wholeness. So it's a so called other starts to become your own very self.
Alex Ferrari 19:04
That's a really, really interesting perspective. I never really thought of it that way. But you're absolutely right. Because once your awareness, your internal awareness becomes wider and wider, like up a Jesus of Buddha, a Yogananda with these kinds of masters, their awareness is became so wide, that they understood that there was no differences, that we all are one and that's the thing, but when your awareness is so narrow, that is where violence and fear and anger come into play. So like, the first time the Europeans walked into India, I'm assuming there was a couple of a little bit of violence because it was so different than what they were their perception. And it seems like as a, as a, as a as a species. We've been slowly becoming more aware to this point now where, when, for example, when Yogananda showed up Back in the 20s, no one had ever seen an Indian in a turban, or heard and it was completely alien, where now these concepts are much more accepted. And we're more globalized. So there's not as much separation, as there was because the awareness has opened, we still have more to go, no question. But from where we were 100 years ago to where we are now, the awareness, internal awareness has grown Correct?
Anand Mehrotra 20:29
Absolutely. I mean, awareness being the knowing quality of consciousness of what we know, we our knowing is moving in the direction of greater unity. And you know, you have this great painting behind you, which for us represents the celestial ashram of, of Baba. Ji in. Yes, right. So, there, you know, Shri Tisha speaks about this being Dwapara Yuga. Right. And the Dwapara Yuga. From his calculation, which, you know, let's say it can be the opera within Kali Yuga. It's a very, very deep Vedic mathematics question. But there is a distinct to higher yoga quality to the times we are living in, when you compare it to even even in our lifetimes, you know, if we have been alive for a few decades, we can see that there is a phenomenal acceleration in the potential for knowing each other, where the barriers to knowledge are dissolving, where space is no more a barrier to knowledge. Like right now I'm sitting in Lakshman jhoola above Rishikesh in the base of the Himalayas right in in a very remote location comparatively, and we are having this conversation and somebody can be driving, you know, in Vegas and be hearing it or somebody can be in Italy or Australia and be hearing this. So we find that space and time are no more barriers to knowledge. So there is this greater unity. So this is Dwapara Yuga, which is the higher yoga Then Kali Yuga. The Kali Yuga is dark is Dwapara Dwapara, meaning the age of openness to is the duality, of course opens up more. So you find and that started from the three rotations perspective at the end of 1800s, which coincides with you know, within the contemporary era. One of the first you know, Indian Yogi's before Yogananda was Vivekananda, who came to America, yes. And, you know, Yogananda came, and that really opened up the floodgates of this incredible movement. And so in the last purely on that level of spiritual emergence and resurgence rather, which is happening, and also at the level of technology, there is a phenomenal growth. I mean, if you study the biology of humanity, it's not like we have grown more brain or somehow we have a thicker cortex and nothing has happened. But somehow the information that is available in the field is much more within the last 150 years or so, right? There is a much faster acceleration that has happened. And that is the upper yoga so we find greater unity now. Absolutely.
Alex Ferrari 23:14
So you said something really, really quickly. You said the field, are we discussing the concept of the quantum field or the Akashic records are where all information lives that you're not we're just being at we're being given opportunities to access or souls are incarnating that can access this information?
Anand Mehrotra 23:33
Yeah, yeah. So like, we know that from the Vedic perspective, that is the field of Veda, right. So the all at that subclass level of being, all knowledge is held in unity, meaning it is not isolated knowledge, it's part of that one whole ocean. And so there is the the kind of the sea of knowledge, which is the field of Veda, right? And that that knowledge starts to flow. And that flow of knowledge is the domain of Saraswathi. So in the Vedas, the one of the goddesses who is really deeply involved is Saraswathi. And so she's shown picture, with a Veena in her hand, and a book of knowledge. So Saraswathi represents this junction point where the boundless knowledge, the sea of knowledge starts to get converted into knowable knowledge. Right, so what do we know there is a gap in our knowing right? So we know and we don't know. We know. And we don't know, we know. And we don't know, so that there is a to, to have certain level of nobility that has to be also the unknown, right? Because that's what makes knowledge what distinguishes knowledge is that you know, versus you don't know something. And so there is this flow, like the music that you play with play music, there is a silence between every note and that gives the note its value. And so that silence is the gap. So Saraswati converts this silence into knowledge. Right and And this is a way that being known what becomes available within a certain yoga. Right. So the from the Vedic perspective, we are living in a comparative, comparatively higher yoga. Now, within the great Kali Yuga, there is a higher age of the opera happening, where we find, I mean, we can be all whoever was alive. As I said before, we can verify this from our own observation, you know, even like 9095 oak trees, there was no Internet, right, like 99 Internet was, maybe within the defense of governments have it, but public domain, it wasn't that easily accessible. And, you know, iPhone is not too long ago, you know, we have the 2000s, you know, and now we have this, you know, zoom, and all these things, we have podcasts and all these things, this is phenomenal acceleration in the flow of knowledge, you know, so it's much more available, but it's Dwapara. So is the age of duality. Right, so one of the meanings of DWIs duality, so we have an acceleration in the possibility or the accessibility of the spiritual transformation. But at the same time, we also have an acceleration in the potential for self destruction, we can destroy ourselves much quicker than, let's say 150 years ago, right? With that you had to 300 years ago, in order to fight a battle, you had to get on a horse and bring out a metal, like just a sharp metal and fight. Now you can be eating and hamburger, you know, go out for lunch, and come back and just play a video game. This time, it's just real, and you can shoot people 1000s of kilometers away from by using a drone, you can you can attack someone, you can express your violence towards someone just by sitting on a computer and write aggressive things about them, you can be disturbed by you can you can have anxiety attacks just by looking at a phone by reading something, right. So there is a great gift of these times. But there is also a great need for vigilance. For us it is then accelerated growth moment faster, much faster, either we can go much faster in the direction of growth, or we can go much faster in the direction of self destruction,
Alex Ferrari 27:17
Right, because if the nucular bomb would have been given in the genghis khan days, we would have destroyed ourselves, by the Alexander the Great days or the Roman days, we would have destroyed just the planet would have been gone. We're not too far away. Unfortunately, to that point, you know, but hopefully there's enough failsafes that it won't happen, but at those times the the consciousness to the awareness, we just weren't ready for that kind of. So, is that another thing that as we become more evolved, they drip out they meeting the field or the Universal Intelligence drips out information as or knowledge as we are capable of handling it in this age,
Anand Mehrotra 28:03
That time flows. So, there is distinct levels of consciousness right. So distinct levels of time also, like a butterfly's lifespan is for us a week or so, right or like when we go into dream reality when we dream in the dream, a dream might seem that it lasted for a year or a few days or months, but in relative reality, maybe few seconds have passed right. So, you find time behaves differently at distinct levels of consciousness, yet all experience requires time right because experience means the there is a flow of knowledge and that flow of knowledge happens in time right. So, there is a base nature, there is a certain intrinsic quality of manifest reality, which has Karla so one of the names for Shiva in yogic system right and the great name of the Great Mother is Kali, the Great destroyer of time. So, in the relative reality, there it changes, but it is there. So, there is a certain flow of time it gives rise to the potential of what we call yoga system, right just like the whirling of the Earth, around the Suria and then ultimately the galactic year. So we find these whirling spiral movements and so, that gives a certain flow to changes and there is a certain flow of time and within that of course, there is time within time within time. So this whirling of time gives rise to the potential of distinct levels of knowledge being available, which is called the yoga system. And within that, depending on the level of consciousness you have, you can start having access to that level of knowledge and information. Now what you do with that information, how you use it Now that you have freewill, so, freewill and predetermine ism coexist. They are not opposing values, actually, but they are complementary, one cannot exist without the other. And we know that from our own intimate experience,
Alex Ferrari 30:15
Now you've mentioned time a few times in this conversation, but from my understanding, isn't time a man made construct based around our Earth circling the sun? Where if is another unit, like the concept of time, and Jupiter is very different than the concept of time on Earth? Based on the rotations and things like that. But if you go to another galaxy, the time is relative, isn't it?
Anand Mehrotra 30:39
Yes. Yes, absolutely. Time is relative, just like in your dream, right, your dream time is different. But there is meditation, right? Yes, there is a time because you see, time is what is a process of flow of knowledge. Right. So as long as the experience SA is experiencing, the experiencing is time. So when you say I'm experiencing, so there is a movement in it. So when you go into deep meditation, deep when you transcend all thought, and there is this and you now do you have transcended all fluctuations, citta, Vritti, nirodha, her yoga, so the cheetah has, there is no red tape, meaning you have transcended the modifications of consciousness. Yet in that being space, there is still a flow of time being felt because there is an experience or experiencing right? There is the meditator meditating. So you can come out and you can sometimes feel oh, only few minutes have passed. You have this feeling or a few minutes have passed it. Look at the watch. Maybe one hour has passed.
Alex Ferrari 32:00
Yeah. Oh, yeah, happened to me.
Anand Mehrotra 32:02
So same thing in sleep, like you go to deep sleep. Sometimes you might, you know, take a day fall asleep, it's usually happens in the afternoon with people, if they're really tired, and they go to sleep in the after lunch. And they fall deep, thoughtless, dreamless sleep, they wake up and they might follow how long I've been asleep. I've been asleep very long, but they might see only 15 minutes they've been asleep. So you find time absolutely is relative but there is still a time regardless. So there is a dimension where there is no time. Absolutely there is Neeraj call the state of being where there is no time. But within the relative reality, all relative is time, space time, right? It is the stages within the field of consciousness, locations within the infinite sea of consciousness.
Alex Ferrari 32:50
I want to we've been talking a little bit about our reality and the awareness and how our awareness is in our agreement to what we are agreeing to and our awarenesses create the reality we have. Is there a concept in the Vedas, talking about how to co create with reality, co create with the source energy, our reality and how we walk through life?
Anand Mehrotra 33:12
Yeah, so I speak about these four stages of experience, right? So at the grassroots level, is the experience of the ego, where the ego experiences itself as an in isolation, right? So ego experience itself in isolation. So it's fundamental experiences, life is happening to me. So there is an alien quality to life. Right? So you're, you wake up and that's the reason of existential anxiety that human beings suffer from that you've wake up and now you have to face the unknown. And the unknown is a threat. So you have this existential threat that is this chronic sense of restlessness, meaning you're not at home, you're not home. Right, then as you have a certain level of awakening, the first level of unity starts to happen down now the atman can see it's not the ego and can start to experience the relative reality as an ally. So it starts to have life is happening for me. Right and that requires a certain level of consistent awareness. As you maintain that, then it starts to happen, life is happening through me. by Thy will be done. The source energy is flowing through you now you are no more resisting the creative intelligence that organizes everything from the atoms in your atoms and molecules in the body to the Milky Way galaxy. There is the creative intelligence so you start to become much more open to that creative flow of existence. So it starts to happen you know, in the Bible says die will through me. Right. So it's this experience that is the speedruns of flow that there is an incredible internet, a lot of artists and people have this experience of flow state where you find that incredible genius is happening, you're doing something incredible, but you don't know you, you don't think that you are doing it, right? It's just happening through you. And you can call it, oh, I'm in the zone, I'm in the flow, but you feel you're plugged into something greater. And that gives you such as experience of high, it gives you success. It's such an experience of meaning to life, you you come out of that you feel oh my, you are elevated, something changes in you because you find meaning in that experience, you somehow are plugged into a greater intelligence. Right? And then it that is the state of co creation, right where you are being the channel, to that creative intelligence of existence is flowing through you. And that becomes a desire, less desire, desire, less living. So it's not the desire less living is not your fighting desire, but rather your desire becoming in tune with the desire of existence for you. And that's what we call dharma. Right? So Dharma is spontaneous, right action, co creating with existence where you are an instrument in the hands of the greater intelligence, you are being informed by spirit, instead of you interfering, using your greatest gift to your own destruction.
Alex Ferrari 36:23
That's a wonderful way of putting it, it's wonder hope, I hope everyone listening gets a little bit out of that, because that's very profound, and could solve so many problems in a person's life if they could just make that switch in their in their, in their point of view. Now, so much throughout, throughout the Vedas, and throughout the yogic philosophies, the concept of vibration is brought up. And in many spiritual practices, the concept of vibration has come up, where in quantum physics, vibration is also a major element of what they're what they're discussing as well. Can you talk about the parallels between our vibration that if everything is a vibration, even though that chair you're sitting on, doesn't look like it's vibrating, it is vibrating and versus the vibrations of what quantum physicists are talking about, inside of an electron or an atom,
Anand Mehrotra 37:21
From the yogic perspective, the whole universe is that dance, rise dance of dancer food dance of Shiva dance of Shakti, Shakti living primordial energy. And now string theory is speaking about now I cannot I do not call myself a scientist or anything, right? I prefer the term Yogi's better, just joking. That's what the string theory is talking about, you know, ultimately, that all particles are points on the strings, right so that the fundamental nature is based realities, is vibratory, and because you keep looking for subatomic particles and the list keeps getting longer and longer. Don't find the fundamental particle. So what you find at the fundamental level is not a particle, but an energy. Right? Because ultimate, there is no such thing as the ultimate thing in the universe. All you have is events unfolding at different rates. And so it's all events within the field of Shakti which is pulsations, right of energy. So, Shakti in the Tantra, they speak about Shiva and Shakti. So, Shiva is the primordial consciousness and at a certain level that that Shiva principle Shiva has a spunda, a pulsation and that pulsation is Shakti. And in that Shakti comes relative reality, meaning the birth of spacetime universes upon universes are formed there. Now, as that pulsation is forming, this greater structure within that also is forming sub structures. So So substructures are all fields, all vibration of of Shakti only. Right. So then, in the Patanjali, yoga sutra, another term that Patanjali uses for it is Pranava, the base vibration which becomes own the sacred mantra in the yogic tradition, and the ocean being the hum of the universe, the bass hum, which is there, so all the other mantras are built on home. Right. So within the yogic practices, there is a phenomenal importance on the use of correct sound, and how to use sound to change your physiology and change your thought and change your feeling and sound is it an effect of vibration wherever there is vibration, there is a sound, either audible sound, or an audible sound. So in the yogic system, there is specific practices. So it's not just a belief, but you can verify shift specific techniques to shift your vibration and that vibration is your feeling state, your thinking state, your emotional state You're seeing state you're being state ultimately starts to change. Right? So when you apply and then as a result when you shift, what do you find? Your life shifts? Right? So you shift your vibration, and your reality shifts, it's a verifiable thing. We don't need to believe in it. We don't need to believe in it, we can practice it and verify it from our own observation. That's what science is, right? So it's the vibration sometimes it's peak of vibration, it can sound low is such a, you know, abstract term, shift your vibration, okay? Make it very actual concrete. Vibration is what it is you're thinking, it is your feeling. It is your emotional state, feeling state thinking states seeing state being state. And so when you start to work with your being all the things you have available, you start to shift those you start how you're vibrating starts to change, what you're experiencing starts to change, what you're seeing starts to change, your whole life starts to change for the fundamental nature of reality is vibratory, nobody can deny that everything is an event, your thoughts are vibration, everything you think is vibration, the voice inside your head, which generates anxiety, which generates that your feeling of not being enough, where you feel, you know, the sense of meaninglessness, these are all vibrations, all currents within your own field of consciousness. So, you can work with that, Shakti and you can convert it in something which inspires you.
Alex Ferrari 41:37
So, let me ask you this in regards to the vibration, you know, in my studies of the Vedic texts, and the yogic philosophies, as a, as a master starts to ascend, and their vibration starts to go higher and higher, because they are getting closer to the awareness of one and a higher state of love. Because the vibration of love is the highest form of I have, from what I understand highest form of vibration, where anger and hate and that is very low, very low vibration. So what can we do to raise our vibration? And isn't isn't the point of life in many ways to evolve to a place where we are the Buddha? We are Jesus? We are the Yogananda is where we eventually get to that place in our evolution.
Anand Mehrotra 42:30
Yes, I mean, that's what evolution is from yoga perspective is greater unity, right, that's what the word yoga means from moving from a state of isolation, which is imbalanced in the chakra system, it is the root chakra, fear, isolation eagle, the third eye chakra, right. So all the kriya master the kriya is based on that bringing the Shakti up to the third eye, and the other chakra, which is unity. And, and one of the other names for unity is love. Right? And so there is an optimization of that. And what is important to realize you see, is that we are not trying to get somewhere. That's not our teaching, in our tradition, we are not chasing some another carrot, we are not chasing some perfect state of enlightenment or when when I'm in like, no, enlightenment is a is a new idea. Right? So what we have in yoga, evolution is a better term. Because every you know, or if you have to use enlightenment is better to use living enlightenment. So it gives you an idea that you're not chasing some end goal. Right? So you are now not using enlightenment as another form of waiting that oh, I'm gonna be now I'm in the Enlightenment waiting room, instead of my salary raise waiting room finding my soulmate waiting room, right? So my Ferrari waiting room to whatever we are my million follower waiting room. So there's just now you have changed the label of your waiting room to enlightenment. That's not what it is. We it's living enlightenment. So it's a greater degree of awareness ever unfolding, right? So it's moving from unity to unity, from love to love that it comes a point in your evolution, where you're not moving from lack. But you're moving from wholeness to wholeness. Our universe is a great example of that, from our perspective, from the localized nervous system that we have from the limitations that are that we experienced, we find when we look around the universe, we find an infinite universe. But we also find that this universe is in finite, but it's still expanding. And so it's a great conundrum, you know, infinity in that sense, because it's infinite yet it is infinite ly expanding. So it's a strange thing, you know? So that's the thing with infinity, right? It's a it's a mind blowing. Concept infinity, right? So you'll find that what it is pointing to because As within so without, as the universal RV as the universe within, so is the universe without the ultimate evolution is not from moving from lack to abundance, ultimate wholeness is moving from wholeness to wholeness, from love, to love, right. And so, there is the meaning of life. So, we are not living to get somewhere else, that nirvana is not at the end of life, Nirvana is not that there is something wrong with this life and you need to go nirvana is to wake up to the beauty that there is here, you know, the heaven is here, I mean, this has happened within you. Right, the within envy, because what when we say within that within is, everything is within, for everything is within your consciousness, everything is within, right. So, there is yes, on a certain level, we can say within seem so different, but there is ultimately all within So, the, I always speak about because a lot of time, we can get confused and get into this, oh, I'm not enlightened yet. And so we remain attached to the positionality that keeps us suffering, there is a secret, you know, identification with suffering. And so we have to embrace our awareness and embrace it and really step into our greater level of awareness now, and then keep, keep moving in that direction. So I speak about the Trinity of yoga, the state of yoga, the practice of yoga, and the experience of yoga, right? The state and the practice and the experience emerge. And when I use the word yoga, just as a disclaimer, I'm not talking about downward dog.
Alex Ferrari 46:48
You mean Lululemon pants, no, pants,
Anand Mehrotra 46:52
You're listening. And then they just stop their car and get off the car and get in Downward Dog.
Alex Ferrari 46:59
Yoga, yoga is the word yoga has been kind of taken over in the western society. Everyone just thinks to the physical but there is so much more to that word. Absolutely. So funny. But so you have a Buddha sitting behind you. And you know, Buddha story of finding enlightenment, the Nirvana. He didn't just find Nirvana underneath that tree, the banyan tree and just go, Okay, I'm out. I'm done. He lived a long life. So to Jesus, Jesus found a form of enlightenment, where then he started to teach, he kept going. But it's it's just a level of awareness. It is not a destination, it is just part of the journey. Correct?
Anand Mehrotra 47:41
Exactly. Yeah, it's not the end, it's the
Alex Ferrari 47:44
Very much so very much so.
Anand Mehrotra 47:46
But when you find love, right, when you right like that, as a child, remember, one of the earliest memories I'm sure everybody will have is that when you were a child, and you found as children we are discovers, right, because our brains are forming. And we discover and we are so excited by the simplest of things. Maybe it's a bird, or a fountain, or some just the way the sun is shining on the still water. And whenever we find something that amazes us, the immediate thing that we want to do is we want to show it to someone, whether it is our mother, or our sibling, we want to share it. So that is our innate nature. When we want to share the love, we want to share our joy. And so when we come to our essential nature in our own Buddha state, that's naturally what we do. We want to share it with others, right? Whenever you find something of value, you say, Hey, listen, I found something of value, it will help you. Here it is. And so then when you share it, it increases even further. Right? That's why right now we are speaking and we are speaking of some, some, some things that mean deeply to us the questions that you ask and when I'm speaking and the underlying intention, why, you know, I'm sitting here at this time and you are there, because there is an innate there willingness in us to share that innate call to share that you find is true within your own heart, for you know that as other hearts which know it and they just need to hear it and there is a certain vibration, innately vibration, a certain resonance that can happen. Right? So the Buddha did not become Buddha just by sitting under the tree. The Buddha became Buddha when he started to teach and share it. Right. So love is ultimately experienced when we are loving.
Alex Ferrari 49:44
It's just very true. And when you find love, let's say a romantic relationship. It is not the end. It is my friend, just the beginning. Just the beginning and you just keep going you're like oh I found you, you're my soulmate. I'm done. No, it's not you, then I begin then you start the journey. It is part of the journey, it is not a destined love is not a destination. Love is part of the journey. So that's a really great way of looking at enlightenment. Because you're right people do we'll start putting that I love the carrot is like another character Chase, another character Chase. Now there is one thing that fascinated me, especially when I read Autobiography of a Yogi, which was, the first time I read it, I couldn't grasp it. When I was younger, I got it when I was in my 20s. And I just couldn't, I wasn't ready. Yet. Only later, 10 years, 12 years later, when I read it again, I started to grasp certain concepts. And they started to ring true to me, because my awareness has grown a bit. But the concept of yogic powers, and I'm going to bring this around to quantum physics in a minute, I'm just curious to hear your perspective, the concept of when you evolve as a yogi to a certain place the the levitation, the being two places at the same time, you know, manifestation, these kinds of things that have been talked about, throughout 1000s of years about these ideas, and in many ways are traps of the ego to it can be, but regardless of the traps, is it that on a quantum physics level, that the yogi has, awareness has gotten to a point where there and I love using this analogy, the matrix, they see the code in the world, and is able to manipulate it in a way that looks magical to other people, but to them, it's just part of their awareness. Very similarly to if I go to an animal and and we're both in the dark, and I turn on a flashlight, it's magic to that animal because it's awareness is not doesn't comprehend the power of the flashlight, but to us it's or fire. It's, it's magical, but we understand the power of fire and how to create fire because we have a different awareness and understanding. Is that, is that a fair?
Anand Mehrotra 52:03
Yeah, miracle is ultimately just the distance between what you know and what you don't know yet, right? It's just knowledge to yet to be gained. And so the word that is spoken of in the tradition is city, right? And said, he comes from what sadhana? So there is the word sadhana. Sadhana is spoken to the spiritual practice. Other meaning of sadhana is tuning that you're tuning your instrument. Right, so as you attune your instrument, sadhana gives rise to Sidi and the one who has that become siddha. So sadhana is tuning and as you tune us just to start to become see something's very clearly just like, as you said, you know, if you like if you don't, you know, somebody speaks a language you never, you haven't don't know, you're wondering like, Oh my God, look how they speak that language to that person is just comes very naturally. So that is that level of attunement, which makes the big to him or her it's no more miracle. It's just the part of isness of isness. It's just the isness of life.
Alex Ferrari 53:17
Right! So what watching someone play a musical instrument to us might look, in many ways magical, because I mean, I would love to be able to play the guitar at the level of these masters. But to me, when I look at them, I'm like, How do you do that, but to them, it's walking. It's a level of just a different level of knowledge. But it does look miraculous.
Anand Mehrotra 53:37
That's what genius is, right? The dimension of genius is that somebody was able to express something in elegant simplicity to that which seems to the observer extremely complex. But in when you're observing a genius at their craft, you find an absence of effort. If you perceive effort, then you know, okay, wow, this person is great, but you can admire their strength and work but you you would you wouldn't say that it's a genius. So, genius requires from the observer standpoint, a certain absence of effort, there is an effortlessness to it, then you know, this is a maestro is a master in his field, right? And so that mastery is an absence of effort because the upload the individual in that state is plugged in and is is expressing that that unique creative flow through them. And that's what cities are, you know, you gain a certain refinement of perception, a certain level of attunement, you are plugged into a deeper level of and the cities when the masters have shown it, it's purely to open our open the individual's mind to the possibility right, not really to chase the city. Because ultimately, there is only one said one miracle and that has never stopped happening.
Alex Ferrari 54:53
Right. So the this this old story I heard where there was two Yogi's at the at the base Have a river. And one said, Hey, look at what I can do. And he floated across the river. And then the other Yogi crossed the bridge. And he's like, I spent 20 years learning how to do that he goes, I just use the bridge, it seemed, seemed like a waste of time if it was up to me. So the yoke, chasing the power, where the other one was like I could have spent these last 20 years doing something more productive, because there's other ways to get across the bridge other than floating across. So it can be a trap these these these, these
Anand Mehrotra 55:38
One of the greatest. One of the great chants within the yogic tradition is Hanuman Chalisa. Right and there are incredible insights in that and one of the things it says Aster said didn't even indicate that as to set the meaning the eight cities right not only the that the nine points of insight and elasticity that you are the giver of eight cities, right so lucky man, these are these levitation all these different things. But who are you are devoted to but you are the greatest devotee were you did you find liberation at the feet of supper rom tapestry Raja writes, The King who is not the king was conquered the world. The word that is used to describe Rama is tapestry. Who does tapas. So the you found liberation to tapasya not through cities, but to Abbas say these are byproduct they just happen. Right? So you're not chasing that that's the byproduct of you doing your top Aha, you getting attune to your own source nature, then natural cities appear. But then as they appear, they don't have any big meaning to you. They are not like some big, so much charm there is no charm about and they just natural, like you walk you walk. Right? You may restring such complex meaning using just 26 27 alphabets. Just do it without getting a second thought about it.
Alex Ferrari 57:09
Well, it's so what you're trying to say is also that the if you meditate and you are in the process of meditating deeper and deeper and deeper, you will get to eventually a place that you may levitate according to the yogic philosophies but it is not a goal.
Anand Mehrotra 57:25
We don't even chase that
Alex Ferrari 57:27
No no chasing it's just it's a byproduct.
Anand Mehrotra 57:32
Yeah, even non meditators are doing that they are getting on the plane levitating. In this yoga, the levitation cities available to everybody just need a passport to buy a ticket and
Alex Ferrari 57:52
A credit card, a credit card across continents,
Anand Mehrotra 57:56
And your luggage also.
Alex Ferrari 58:02
It is it is and it's it's so funny, but anyone can levitate you just get on a plane
No, I bring that up because I really was curious on the way what was happening with that and in the scientific quantum realm
Anand Mehrotra 58:23
From the yogic perspective level, you see, our bodies ultimately is Akasha made up of the subtlest Pancham element five elements are there and the ultimate element from the on a physiological level is called Akasha right. So this is the the space ether. So the essential nature of even the structure body is weightlessness, right and so gravity also which is you know, which is the most one of the most mysterious of the four forces fundamental forces of nature according to Western according to science of these times, let's forget the term Western accorded the sign that you know the weak nickname for strong nuclear force, electromagnetism and gravity and gravity is the most mysterious because the weakest right yes, so weak and yet it holds seems to hold all of this structure together. And so, the ultimately what that gravity is also is an expression of Shakti only so you can access that certain level of reception where you know even when you are experiencing in Korea, the Shakti is rising so you can feel within your spine this kind of levitating elevating, right so when we are excited, when we are joyous we jump right from young hate when we get excited we jump we we want to push against gravity, our bodies when you are happy, your body language is different. Versus when you are sad. You're more kind of pulled by gravity and you close in you become narrower, but in your joy as you become expanded you radiate. When you're excited. Sometimes as a kid you can hardly control yourself you jump out or you go in sporting events, people are excited to jump out of their chairs. So there is a natural all phenomena that when the energy we have these peak experiences there is levitating, they're pushing up that happens, right? So you can get to that level of inner ecstasy, where you can transcend that, that expression of Shakti as what we call gravity, this feeling of heaviness on the structure. So that does not mean that you're going to start you know, wear red underwear or some your pants and start flying around with the cape. But there's the whole point is that you you start transcending the illusion of your fundamental identity as matter and you stop stop living in this kind of boundary dominant reality, it starts to become more fluid for you and a death has a very transformative effect.
Alex Ferrari 1:00:50
So in other words, your you'll become Neo and start dodging bullets.
Anand Mehrotra 1:00:58
No bullets now. To the level of new, the bullets disappear.
Alex Ferrari 1:01:05
As as profound as that movie is, the one statement is like, he's like, how do you bend the spoon? You cannot bend the spoon until you understand there is no spoon. And it's taken me decades to understand that statement. It's such a profound statement. But you're like you said like, oh, well, you get to the point of no, there is no bullet. There is it doesn't exist. So of course he could dodge them because they don't exist.
I have one last question to you about Kundalini energy. And we've kind of talked a little bit about it. In the energy that comes from the root chakra going up? Can you talk about Kundalini energy in how? It's an energy that is apparently dormant inside of us that we open up or with our awareness? Can you explain it a little bit?
Anand Mehrotra 1:01:56
Kundalini is referring to the infinite potential of being as I said, In the beginning of our conversation, the Atman is localized universality. So what is the potential of localized universality it is universality, right? So what is the potential of Atman is Brahman, and so that Brahman is Kundalini, the infinite potential of being is Kundalini, that potential of your own brain potential of your heart potential of your creativity, we all know we are infinitely capable. And that infinite capacity that pulsates within us, that actually inspires us to get up every day, and to create something to create meaning to create art to to, to reach out to each other to find connection, that is Shakti. Right. And so Kundalini is really referring to that. And when we speak about Dharma and just speaking about that, it is not yet fully, it requires your participation, that evolution at the human level is pro choice. It's not involuntary, it requires your participation so that they are the teaching about that the Kundalini is Dom and meaning it's points to that you cannot evolve without participation. Right? It requires your willingness, it requires you actively getting engaged in that and then accessing your own infinite potential moving in that direction. It requires certain practices, setting clearing of your own incorrect knowledge. And then you find it just a natural unfolding of your own higher nature. That's all Kundalini means.
Alex Ferrari 1:03:32
Anand going to ask you a few questions. I ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?
Anand Mehrotra 1:03:40
Living a good life is being good. There is no good life. There enough. Great people have great lives. So be great discover your own greatness, life will become great naturally.
Alex Ferrari 1:03:53
What is your definition of God?
Anand Mehrotra 1:03:56
Oh, God is the finest experience of relative reality you can have right the finer than the finest experience that you can have is God. God is only relevant when you can experience within God as a collective idea. Maybe not so needed. God only as a personal inner experience is relevant.
Alex Ferrari 1:04:19
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Anand Mehrotra 1:04:22
Alex Ferrari 1:04:23
Evolve yes, yes. And my friend where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?
Anand Mehrotra 1:04:30
Oh, they can find on go on sattvayogaacademy.com And a lot of My Teachings are on Sattva Connect is an online you know, library and platform for all of our teachings. So there is a lot of live streams and stuff they can go and find that so sattvayogaacademy.com and search for connect.
Alex Ferrari 1:04:47
And I will put those in the show notes and do you have any final messages for our audience my friend,
Anand Mehrotra 1:04:52
Just listen and absorb and you know, know yourself and realize that we are in a you're not To be here, and this time, this is a great privilege. This is a greatest gift and all the difficulties in our lives, our opportunities, they are our teachers, they are only here to guide us closer to ourselves. You know, there is nothing, there is nothing wrong. There is only opportunities, no obstacle, but just the way. And so look and really tune into that. All that you see, Truly, truly, truly is accessible within you. Just like the goal is found within the womb of the earth. That is goal hiding within us,
Alex Ferrari 1:05:41
My friend thank you again so much for coming on the show again and sharing your knowledge and wisdom with all of us. I appreciate you so so much my friend. Thank you again.
Anand Mehrotra 1:05:49
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And best of luck, everybody and namaste. Bye bye.
Alex Ferrari 1:05:57
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Links and Resources
- Sattva Yoga Academy
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- Episode 052: Liberating the Mind & Finding Your Purpose with Yogi Anand Mehrotra
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