ALARMING! Ex-PREACHER EXPOSES the FALSE Teachings Christians are UNKNOWINGLY Following! with Aaron Abke

Aaron Abke 0:00
It's I'm not saying that what you believe is not true. I'm saying that what you believe is actually so much more true than you possibly realize, and that Jesus is so much bigger than you realize, that you're playing too small following Paul's religion. Because what if this is true, right? If you're a Christian listening to this, what if this is true, that your Master Jesus had his gospel distorted and changed over time and lost to time, and you've been following mostly a false gospel of his. Wouldn't it behoove you to want to do the research to confirm if that's true,

Alex Ferrari 0:34
But, but Aaron is a lot easier just to go along with the program, sir.

Aaron Abke 0:39
And there we have it.

Alex Ferrari 0:39
I like to welcome back to the show returning champion, Aaron Abke, how you doing Aaron?

Aaron Abke 0:53
Hey brother, thanks for having me back. I love the new studio.

Alex Ferrari 0:56
Thank you man.

Aaron Abke 0:57
I'm excited for the show man.

Alex Ferrari 0:58
I appreciate it. Man, I appreciate it. You know, I'm glad you were able to come down, trek all the way down here from where you are.

Aaron Abke 1:04
A full 30 minute drive. It's a huge sacrifice on my part.

Alex Ferrari 1:07
Well, I appreciate you coming down, man, our last conversation did fairly well. People really enjoyed when you came on the show last time, and when I had the studio, I'm like, Well, I have to have you in. There's no question. Have you back on the show. It's been a while, a couple years. It's been a couple years. So, you know, I wanted to, this time at least dive into multiple things that we're going to talk about in this conversation. But for people who don't, who don't know your story, how did you kind of what's, what's the word? How did you realize that the programming that you were raised with, or escaped that programming of of the religious dogma that you were kind of brought up with, and I'm kind of skipping ahead a little bit of your story, but you know your religious background and how you kind of awakened? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Aaron Abke 1:59
Well, I awakened out of the religious programming I was brought up with, pretty much just by studying it,

Alex Ferrari 2:07
You started poking holes in the plot.

Aaron Abke 2:09
Yeah. So I'm a third generation pastor's kid, and was born and raised in a beautiful church my parents had called springs of life fellowship in the Bay Area, and it was this, you know, explosive evangelical church in the 90s that, like, everybody was flying from across the world to come to our church. We were having these blowout revival services every single weekend for, like years, we had the biggest evangelical speakers flying out on a regular basis. It was like the place to be. And thankfully, it wasn't a church. My dad was never a preacher of like, hellfire, damnation stuff. He really emphasized the love of God, especially, like relationship with the Holy Spirit, kind of traditional evangelical stuff. Didn't emphasize hell, the rapture, the dogmatic stuff, very much. So I didn't have to, like, confront those dogmas too much as a Christian kid, so I wanted to be a pastor like my dad. So I went to Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, and I was I was a worship leader most of my life, growing up in youth group and then in the main service. So my kind of pastoral career began as a worship pastor, but I wanted to eventually be like a senior pastor. So I got a double Bachelor's in music and theology at ORU, and I began studying, you know, biblical hermeneutics, exegesis, Koine, Greek Hebrew, early church history, and all the stuff they have you study on a theology degree. And I just started to as you really break down the scriptures and you learn about the history of who these scriptures were written, to why they were written, who the authors may or may not have been, you start to go, wow, this is painting a different picture than I've been taught in church. This is nowhere near as harmonized, and, you know, perfectly plastic wrapped, as I was always taught, like there's a lot of problems here. There's a lot of contradictions. And specifically, what really started to wake me up, per your question, was just starting to notice all of these blatant contradictions between Paul's writing and Jesus's teachings. And that was curious to me, because the Christian religion, as we know today is basically the religion of Paul, because he wrote two thirds of the New Testament. And when I actually started studying Paul, not only were just kind of the way he writes with a very, you would almost say, narcissistic style of writing, where he's always talking about himself, he literally never stops talking about it's called the gospel of Paul. It is, yeah, he called it, he called it my gospel, right? He never called it the gospel of Christ or Jesus Christ. He called it my gospel. And I'm like, this doesn't line up with the red letters to me. In fact, they're blatant contradictions over and over and over and over and over. So I started to get disillus. Confusion from my the faith of my upbringing a bit, and when I got my first job at 23 as a full time worship pastor in a church in San Jose where I grew up, it was a very dogmatic church, and they were really stressing all the things that my dad never stressed, who's going to hell, who's in, who's out, we're the correct denomination, and it just became so unpalatable to me, and I started to wrestle with so much internal conflict. Of, like, I don't believe in this version of God that you are preaching here. I don't believe in this version of Jesus you're preaching about. I don't know this Jesus you're talking about. So like, I have to make a tough decision of, Do I believe in this Christian version of God or not? And that really began around 18 when I started college. That questioning. By 23 it was like I couldn't live with it anymore. I felt so inauthentic to be leading worship on stage every day, every Sunday. But I don't believe in the God that we're singing about. So that's when I kind of blew up my life and just was like, Look, I'm out. I'm not a Christian anymore. I can't do this with you. People. Moved back to Oklahoma and just started seeking journey of what do I believe about God? And studied a lot of the Eastern teachings, especially Hinduism and Buddhism. And probably, like, after seven or eight years of, like, heavily studying Eastern enlightenment teachings started to make my way back to my origins with Jesus, and really re understanding Jesus, or maybe understanding him for the first time that he was, he was an enlightened avatar, like so many of the other ones that have graced our planet as we see behind us on this beautiful display. And you know, there he is, right there we Earth has received so few true masters, and so people are like, Aaron, why do you talk about this subject of Jesus's original Gospel and how it was stolen by Paul and the Roman Catholic Church? Like, why is that so important to you if you're not a Christian anymore? And I say, Well, part of it's because it's in my DNA a bit, but the bigger reason is that the words of a true master deserve to be heard and recognized. And if the words of a true master, like one of these beings on the platform behind us, was skewed and distorted by somebody and lost through time, isn't it worth tracing back to the source of where that corruption happened, and rediscovering or resurrecting the true message of that master. And that's what I think, especially our world today, needs more than anything. Is like Jesus taught a very real Gospel, which we can get into that is so contrary to Western Christianity, and that, in every way, symbolizes the highest spiritual ideals. But, you know, he put it in a very first century Jewish way of of interpreting spiritual truth. But he's taught all the same things that everyone else on this platform taught, and when you see it, you can't unsee it. And so I've just been pretty fiercely passionate about this subject for the last 10 years or so.

Alex Ferrari 8:03
We're similar in that way, because when I went I'm a recovering Catholic, and I was the one that constantly was asking the question, so what happened to Jesus when between 13 and 30, we don't talk about these things, that kind of stuff, and I would get in trouble

Aaron Abke 8:18
If anything important happened, they would have written about it.

Alex Ferrari 8:21
Exactly. He was like, yada yada yada. And he comes, comes in on the donkey. There he is, Hey guys, and that's it, and there's miracles, and we're done, and he dies, and that's the end of the story. But then started to really dig into the true teachings of of Yeshua, and also then started to see which is out in public, not even a conspiracy of the Council of Nicaea, of how the Roman Empire turned into the Roman Catholic Church, which I didn't figure out till I was sitting in the Vatican and that, oh, wow, the very first time. That's a good place to realize, dude, when I was sitting in the Vatican, I looked up and I go, Wow. This has nothing. I literally said, this has nothing to do with Jesus. Oh, wow, there's nothing to do with you. Got it? You walk around at the St Peter's Basilica, which is stunning. I mean, you Oh, man, yeah, it is stunning. It is,

Aaron Abke 9:09
That's part of the cover up though,

Alex Ferrari 9:10
Of course, of course.

Aaron Abke 9:11
Yeah, we have nothing of substance.

Alex Ferrari 9:12
If you walk into the St Peter's Basilica 1000 years ago, yeah. I'm not sure how long the old it is. I think it's around, I think at least around something like that. And you are an uneducated person from the fields, let's say, Yeah. And you walk into that, you like, Well, God had to build this. Like, there's no other concept. There's there. There has to be some from God. There's no other, you know, very similar to what the Mayans dealt with, what the Egyptians dealt with, all these kind of, this kind of routine. But I'm sitting there and I just said, Yeah, this Roman cap Roman, holy crap. The it's Rome, and I never, I know I'm I'm slow on the uptick, but the Roman Catholic Church was basically Rome where Rome fell. It turned it didn't fall. It just turned into all the wealth, all the booty, all the good stuff that they they'd stolen over the centuries. I just turned into the Vatican, essentially. But when I started to go deeper down the rabbit hole about how the Bible was written, when it was written, the purposes of it, what they omitted out of it, what they how they changed some stories, I just was like, this doesn't and I just very similar, like, I just started going deeper and deeper to figure things out. And you and I both, I kind of went through the Hindu, Buddhist, more Eastern philosophy, yogic philosophies, Yogananda, all these kind of amazing beings that really changed the way I look at the world. Because that when I started looking at those philosophies and those ideas, I was like, well, this makes more sense to me. And then just also being, having the pleasure of doing the show and talking to so many different masters, so many different modalities of everything, I just keep noticing the commonalities. Truth is, truth is, truth is truth is, you can change the flavor of it, and that's fine depending on where you're you're coming from, but the truth is, the truth is the truth

Aaron Abke 10:59
The golden thread.

Alex Ferrari 11:00
It is and it rarely changed, like, I rarely have someone on the show that contradicts the basic truth. Like, you know, we're here for we're a soul. We're here. We're reincarnated, oneness, yeah, we're all connected, you know. And again, you go back to Jesus, and you go, Oh, he's kind of talking about this back then, yeah. Oh yes, the world, the you know, was it the kingdom of heaven is within you, not in a big building with a bunch of guys, guys specifically telling you what to do, but it's within you. And everything I could do, you could do, and more these kind there, and it's here now, and it's here now. It's all this kind of stuff. So it's fascinating. One of my favorite things to talk about is hell, because I love the concept of hell, because it's such a great plot point, a great a great story,

Aaron Abke 11:50
A great control mechanism.

Alex Ferrari 11:52
It's an amazing control mechanism, control mechanism. It is and also a great plot device, because you need a completely you need the the bad guy without Darth, Vader. There's no Star Wars, right, period. So, and I, when I discovered that the original, the Torah, never spoke of the of hell,

Aaron Abke 12:14
It doesn't appear in the Bible,

Alex Ferrari 12:16
Yeah, the old the old testament, nothing. It's only later that it was incorporated into the teachings, and also that not only wasn't incorporated in the teachings, but then Dante showed up, and he really added a whole lot of flavor to that idea, which, by the way, from what I understand, Dante, Dante's Inferno is not even about hell. They just kind of adopted metaphor. It's a metaphor. It's like not a physical place of the seven levels of hell. So what is your understanding of the origins of hell? Because, from my understanding, it's Jesus and what he said, a couple things, and how they twisted it to turn it into hell. Yeah, and I don't know about you, when I was in first grade in Catholic school, they go, there's this place called hell. And if you don't do what you you're supposed to, you go there. I came home crying, terrified. I'm like, I don't want to go to hell. It's a trauma. It's absolutely a trauma. It is such a controlling device, like you said, to control you. And I think at a certain point in humanity's history, we needed that. We were savages. We were running around all over the place. May have been useful. It might have been useful early on, because you needed some sort of code to kind of control the mob, yeah, but we're not there anymore, yeah. So what do you think?

Aaron Abke 13:30
Yeah, well, it's an amazing subject to discuss as well, because it's one of those subjects that will really open Christian's eyes when they start studying it. It's one of the first subjects. It was the rapture. Was the first one that I kind of broke down. I was like, this is not biblical at all.

Alex Ferrari 13:46
Isn't that a publisher that wrote that?

Aaron Abke 13:48
Yeah Schofield.

Alex Ferrari 13:49
Yes, a publisher wrote that to sell some more books,

Aaron Abke 13:52
Bibles. Yeah, Bible and it was all based on a dream that a girl in Ireland had, which is a whole other story.

Alex Ferrari 13:58
It's not so it's not a lot of people think of the rapture, at least, large groups of Christians think that the rapture is the thing. It's like it's in the book. No, it's a public publisher wrote it well.

Aaron Abke 14:08
And the book of Revelation in Matthew 28 where Jesus talks about the end of the age, is clearly describing the fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad to the letter. I mean, it's incredibly detailed, how specifically, whether Jesus prophesied it that well or later, writers were attributing to Jesus these spot on predictions. It's not about an event 2000 years from now, it was about an event. And he said, This is going to happen in your lifetime to the people he was talking to. And then, of course, the other reason the rapture gets misconstrued by Christianity is because Paul had this huge secret mystery teaching that we're all going to be caught up in the air with Christ. The trumpets going to sound, and we're going to be caught up and transformed into these spiritual bodies, just like Jesus was. And we're all going to rule and reign in the cosmos with Jesus as these kind of like, like a new genus of super be. Beings, or spiritual beings, of God, kind of reincarnating himself into physical form. This was Paul's like explicit teaching in the new New Testament epistles that he told his followers, do not get married. If you're a slave, don't even worry about trying to get free. Don't take a new job, because Jesus is coming back any second now. It's definitely happening in our lifetime. And he was very bold about this. He believed it was coming in his lifetime. And of course, it didn't. And afterwards, the Paul's kind of disciples that wrote many of the other epistles in his name, they try to quiet Paul down on that subject and kind of domesticate him a bit, because, like, let's just pretend that didn't happen. And they take, kind of take it out of his writings, right? But in the seven letters are attributed to Paul, he just talking about it non stop and in very great detail. So like that's part of the reason the rapture theology got rant run away with by Christianity. It's also a very good narrative to control people with any any second now, Jesus coming back, give your tithes, give your offerings, make yourself ready. So I kind of deconstructed that right away. The next subject was hell. And I'm like, I need to know if this is actually what this book is teaching. Because back then, I was still not I hadn't come out of Christianity yet, so I was still looking to the Bible as the ultimate source of truth. Turns out that, as you said in the Old Testament, there's no mention of hell or any kind of torture chamber, place that wicked people go. In fact, it's very clear that the Jews were what they call annihilationists. It just kind of went away. Yeah, it means like the wicked, there's tons and tons of passages on this. The wicked shall perish. They shall go to the dust and never return, they shall be blotted out. God will remember them no more. So it's like the wicked get wiped out of existence. The holy ones live in heaven with God. That was Judaism's belief, and I think still is. But then you get the New Testament. And this was one of the things that would frustrate me as a Christian, was that you hear a lot of Christian pastors and stuff will say Jesus was the great theologian of hell. Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the Bible. And I'm like, is that true? So I look up the original Greek words that are being used, and to my shock, there's this egregious, horrible mistranslation of the word hell, as it appears in like the King James, the word that Jesus used in every single reference was the word Gehenna, which is the Valley of hinom, which was like the city garbage dump of the day, where the not only garbage would be thrown, but dead bodies of criminals and thieves would be thrown. It was Gehenna. Was the only place that lepers were allowed to roam free, conflagrate together. Yeah, they couldn't. They weren't allowed to go into the city, right? So Jesus is saying, you know, this is one of Jesus's great gospel teachings, actually, is heaven whole or hell maimed? You could call it that. Jesus says, Hey, if you're sinning, it's way better to just chop off the arm that's causing the sin and enter the kingdom of heaven maimed than to continue in sin and enter into hell with both arms intact. And when he says, hell, he's he said the word Gehenna, better to to cut off your arm than to be thrown into the fires of Gehenna, which

Alex Ferrari 18:21
Were on fire. It was a garbage almost, yeah, so they did literally fire, literally fired up.

Aaron Abke 18:25
Yeah. And then here's the kicker. This is amazing dude. He says where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. And they're like, look, he's clearly describing an underworld where people get tortured and stuff. But when you look at the passage he's quoting. He's quoting from a passage in Isaiah. I want to say it's isaiah 45 or might be the very last chapter of Isaiah, but it's this amazing passage where the Israelites had been sacrificing their children into the fires of Gehenna to the false god Molech, which I'm sure you're familiar with. That name, right, right? And God calls, check this out. This is incredible. God told the Jews in Isaiah that sacrificing your children in fire is an abomination to me. And it says, I did not conceive of this, nor would it ever enter into my mind to command you to do this, burning your children in fire. And he says, because you've committed this abomination, you shall be thrown into the fires of Gehenna, something like that, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. So in this prophecy from Isaiah, he's telling the Jews, because you've committed, in my eyes, the ultimate abomination, which is to burn your children in fire. Are you catching any references here? I will throw you into the fire, or you shall be thrown into the fire. And the reference of where the worm does not die and the fire's not quenched is like an idiom or a metaphor for your destruction here will be remembered forever, right? The old Old Testament, writing especially and New Testament. Testament. But ancient times, they were very metaphorical, right? In the way that they described things, they were always using pictures and metaphors to draw these allusions to things. And so he's God is basically saying, obviously, a worm can't eat you forever. It's going to run out of body to eat at some point. Fire can't burn you forever. It's going to burn up your body at some point. So it's a metaphor that in the eyes of the rest of the history, it's as if you're always being eaten by worms and burned in the fire, because that's what's going to happen to you here. And the Jews will always remember you as those wicked beings who sacrificed their children in the fire. You know he's pronouncing this great judgment on those who burned their kids in fire. And so Christians use that exact passage that Jesus quoted where the worm does not die and the fire's not quenched, to say that Jesus is teaching that God burns his children in fire, isn't that incredible, and it's the exact opposite the passage he quotes, God is condemning the Jews for burning their kids in the fire.

Alex Ferrari 19:45
And they just switched it around a little bit,

Aaron Abke 20:28
And that's why they say Jesus taught about hell, and he has not.

Alex Ferrari 21:04
And this is, this is fascinating to me. Like, why there's so much I want to talk about right now. There's like so many things

Aaron Abke 21:12
I know, the feeling, bro,

Alex Ferrari 21:13
There's like so much stuff, like flying.

Aaron Abke 21:15
This could be an eight hour podcast.

Alex Ferrari 21:17
So, so you said something. You said sin. Now, sin is a really touchy subject, yeah, because obviously, you know, according to the Catholic and the Christian doctrine, you're born with original sin, which we'll get to in a second. Very much so. But when you start studying the Eastern philosophies, Eastern thought, thoughts, those kind of masters. The concept of sin doesn't exist, yeah, karma, it's karma. There's cause and effect, yeah, which seems more logical, yep, seems more fair. And as parents, we would never damn our children for, you know, just for not doing a certain thing or damning them into hell for, I mean, there's no, you know, you just, you have a child now, there's nothing that that little child, it's hilarious to even suggest it like that you would damn them forever for whatever they might do in this world, and they could do some evil, horrible things, yeah? But you're you love them, and you will always love them in one way, shape or form, yeah, I believe. So there's that concept, but the concept of original sin, that that beautiful little being just came out, yeah, of the womb, and they're like, there's, they're a little dirty, there's original sin. God. God gave him a gave him or her a little bit of sin, made sinful, made sinful right away, because sinless one by exactly comes down. Now, the only way that you can erase this, because you can't go to confessional years later about this one, which is a whole other conversation, but you need to go, and we have to, we have to throw a little bit of water on your head, blessed by a dude at the church to release that sin. Yeah, it is such a level of control. It's such a controlling mechanism that is baffling to me, which I always joke too. Like, my, my, my parents turned to me. Like, when my kids were born, they're like, so are you? Are you what I'm like? Are you gonna baptize them? By the way, they've been to church, I think once in the last 20 years. You know, they were, they were when I was growing up, the the Christmas, Easter.

Aaron Abke 23:38
Yeah, a lot of parents get their kids baptized, like, just in case.

Alex Ferrari 23:43
That's the exact thing they say, like, just in case. Are you out of your just in case? It's all true. I mean, cover your bases. Yeah, cover your bases, right? This is not a spread in a casino gamble. We're not diversifying our portfolio here. That's not the way that works. But I'd love to hear what you think of the idea of sin from your point of view and from your studies, where it kind of idea came from. Because, again, a sin is an amazing controlling mechanism. Oh yeah, an amazing controlling mechanism. And again, at a certain point in our evolution, I understand it, and it was probably helpful at a certain point. We can't look back at, you know, men and women during Jesus's time and and say, Oh, well, they really didn't need that. Yeah, and Jesus had a rough time talking about these basic understandings. So at that point, those things might have been a helpful controlling mechanism. I'm not discounting it, but we obviously don't need that at this point in our evolution. So I'd love to hear your thought on sin.

Aaron Abke 24:47
Yeah. Well, sin is karma, no doubt, but the understanding of you know, Orthodox Judaism has been that God is the holy. Creator, and God is perfect and sinless. So if you sin, it's sort of this blight against the Creator. And so you can't join with that creator unless you are healed of your sins, right? And so Christians take that another step further, and they're like, actually on this is Paul took it another step further, and Paul was completely off base on this, among other things, among other things, but it comes from his teaching in Romans. I think Romans eight, there is no one righteous, not even one that whole verse, and he's quoting, I can't remember which Old Testament book that comes from, I think Psalms. But in the passage, he quotes yet again, when you read the actual passage, the passage is God talking to the wicked generation, the foolish generation. He says, among the foolish generation, the wicked generation, there's no one righteous, not even one. And then he goes on to talk about the righteous generation. And he says the word is very near to you in your heart and in your mouth, that you may observe it. So God in that passage is saying, you can obey my laws. You can stop sinning. The law is not too hard for you. The verse says, Paul takes those parts out and just quotes the cherry picks that there's no one righteous, not even one which in the passage, again, he's talking about a the wicked generation has no righteous people. And he uses that to say, see, we're all born Christians call it total depravity. You're born completely wicked and sinful. Now there are so many theological, ontological, philosophical issues with that it's it'll make your head spin like we just to start somewhere. How do you explain that a sinless, perfect God makes total depravity for fun. What are we talking about? This is a complete contradiction of what we say we believe, if God is perfect, God would be, therefore incapable of creating imperfection. So what is sin, then? And sin, I love the of course, in miracles, take on this. Of course a miracle says sin in the light of love is a mistake to be corrected, not an evil to be punished, right? And why would it be an evil to be punished only if you believe sin somehow stains God or hurts God in some way, you know, strips god of some of God's holiness, and then God gets angry and like, How dare you sin against me. I will punish you, but I created you. Yeah, it's like, but I I created you. I made you unable to follow my laws. I made you totally depraved, and yet I'm gonna punish you for how I made you. And there's just so many problems with that idea that Christians never, almost never try to grapple with, because the moment you do, your belief system starts unraveling?

Alex Ferrari 27:43
Do you? I'm assuming you've run into this in your work, that when, when you start throwing these ideas out to two people of this of Christian belief, it starts to rattle their world. I think the cause of most, most problems we have in this world is because I'm the right I'm the right way. My belief is the right way, yours is not. And I can't let you live by yourself. You must believe in the Crusades. You must believe it because that's what Jesus wanted. And there's no doubt that Jesus, like crusade me, like I always joke is like, Have you ever heard of the yogi crusades when they were just running around Europe, just trying to switch everyone to Hinduism, killing people and yogis just levitating and just throwing things up? Like, no, that doesn't exist.

Aaron Abke 28:30
Yeah, or Buddhist,

Alex Ferrari 28:32
Or Buddhist or Taoist, any of anything from the east. Makes no sense in at all. But when you confront someone, or at least someone hears you now that you confront someone, but someone hears these ideas that we're talking about right now, it can start unraveling their world. It starts taking out the foundation that they've built their story around, because there's a character that they've built their avatar. Your Aaron, Alex, there are certain sets of beliefs that we all have within ourselves, and the story that we've created over our programming, over the time that we've been on Earth. And there are certain rock solid things. And if those rock solid things, you start seeing holes. And in these stories, as we're talking about there's plot holes, Swiss cheese, left and right, and more and more people are talking about it now, before it was whispered, but now there's shows like this. Yep, the information's out there. And now people are just going, this, this doesn't kind of make sense anymore. Yeah? You know, you hear my kids talk, and you just go, they're like, this makes no sense. Yeah? Like, they came in programmed like that, yeah, this generation coming up, oh yeah, they are much wiser and more evolved beings than we were coming up. Because, you know, in our parents and our grandparents and so on. Every every generation gets to little, the consciousness seems to be growing. Oh yes, yeah. But what do you think about someone listening right now? Now that's starting to hear this, and they're starting to get angry, get frustrated about this. Well, no, that's possible this, but when you show the proof like the Earth is round, yeah, the earth, here's the proof. The earth is round. Here's math images, I mean, and your folk, don't get me started. And then people, I'm sure that they're the best when they come on the comments. I love it, yeah. But like the Earth is round, it's not flat, and you're showing it to them, and they some will question it. Some will start doing inward, inward investigations, yeah, others will have to reject it, because if they even entertain it, the pain of deraveling, yeah, everything is so bad that they either get violent, that's what it is. And because, wait a minute, so you mean, Father, Father, guy, he told me lies my parents would, and all of a sudden it just,

Aaron Abke 30:57
Yeah, the identity crumbles. And it's a painful ego death, correct? I mean, I went through it, so I get it. And this is why, almost always it's young people that come out of Christianity, and not older people, because, you know, they've lived how much longer, believing these things, espousing them, teaching them, and to be like everything I've believed is a lie, which, of course, it's not. And we're not saying it is, of course, in fact, I tell Christians it's, I'm not saying that what you believe is not true. I'm saying that what you believe is actually so much more true than you possibly realize, and that Jesus is so much bigger than you realize, that you're playing too small. Following Paul's religion, you ought to try Jesus's religion, or the religion of Jesus, what he taught, because it's way more aligned and beautiful and harmonious and foolproof. There's no holes in Jesus's gospel. It's again, the teachings of all the Masters put in Jesus's unique way. It's just the most beautiful gospel message that you can live your life by and be a true disciple of Jesus. But you've got to divorce yourself from the original Christian heretic Paul who founded the Christian religion. And we can get into this if you want, because it's this is something I observed man that made me upset was that I had so many friends of mine growing up in youth group and stuff, who left Christianity because they got disillusioned by it all at a younger age, and like, man, you know? And they leave the church, and I try to bring them back to church, and they're like, I don't believe in all this stuff. You know, Paul's all, he's anti gay, he's anti women. It's so massage. I'm not into this religion anymore. And I'm like, dude, everyone leaves Christianity because of Paul's teachings. Everybody, right? Hell, the rapture. It's all Paul's teaching,

Alex Ferrari 32:41
The dogma, all the negative, the dogma and fear, the fear based stuff,

Aaron Abke 32:44
Yeah and like, this might be a bold statement, but I, I'd be willing to bet this is probably true. I don't think there's ever been a person who's genuinely, authentically left the Christian faith because of a teaching of Jesus.

Alex Ferrari 32:58
I agree with you. Look at what Jesus said. This is like, you know, just a couple of the things we said that the kingdom of God is within you. You know, everything I could do you could do, and more. You know, the same power I have is given to you all. And there's in the Listen, nothing that Jesus

Aaron Abke 33:15
Love your neighbor as yourself.

Alex Ferrari 33:16
I mean, come on,

Aaron Abke 33:17
I can't handle this love your neighbor stuff. I'm out!

Alex Ferrari 33:19
Yeah, exactly. I must hate my neighbors like said, no one ever exactly so the teachings that he came up with are beautiful, beautiful and wonderful to live your life by. And then you start looking at the other masters and what they've said, which ring true. Oh, yeah, to what Jesus said. And Yeshua said Buddha had said things like this years before Jesus ever showed up. I'm not saying that he took it. It's just a truth.

Aaron Abke 33:44
Have you read Nicholas Nodovich's book?

Alex Ferrari 33:46
I have not

Aaron Abke 33:46
The missing years.

Alex Ferrari 33:47
No we'll talk about the missing years in a minute. Dude, you're gonna love that. Is it good?

Aaron Abke 33:51
Oh, man. It's a it's a Tibetan scroll that was found by a Russian traveler in the 1800s who at a Buddhist monk monastery, and they were like, Hey, we have writings of recording the life of somebody named Issa. It's called the hidden life of Issa, the name of the scroll. And Issa is the Aramaic name for Yeshua. And apparently, Jesus traveled just like the gospel of the holy 12 says. It's exactly what the Buddhists say. He went to Syria with the Zoroastrians for a while. He went to India, Egypt and Tibet with the Buddhists for some years, studying all their traditions, which was a very common scene tradition, was to study other traditions as well. When you come of age, there's a lot of rumors that John the Baptist. There's legends of John the Baptist having been in Tibet and stuff. So the book details where Jesus went, and it's amazing. So they had somebody read it from the Chinese writing to him, and he transcribed it in English while they were writing it. And the history is incredible, because everywhere Jesus goes in that book, this basically the same exact thing happens to him. That happened in Palestine, which is that he opposes the religious leaders for their hypocrisy, and they try to kill him and he leaves.

Alex Ferrari 35:06
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Aaron Abke 35:42
Escape escapes.

Alex Ferrari 35:43
He's a troublemaker.

Aaron Abke 35:44
Sounds like Jesus I know.

Alex Ferrari 35:46
He's a troublemaker, yeah? Because all all those, no matter who it is, even the Eastern religions, all of them have hypocrisies in them, all of them and have control mechanisms and so on so forth, you have to dig through the the muck to get to the true teachings. Yeah, you know, that's why I love Yogananda so much, because what you read is his work. He wrote it, right? That was 70 years ago, yeah, you know. So it's 80 years ago. Whatever it is, it's not that long ago. Yeah, walked the earth. So, I mean, he knew the Beatles. Now he didn't know what the Beatles

Aaron Abke 36:17
He did. I thought he did, or at least you met them. Maybe.

Alex Ferrari 36:22
Don't know if, no, Yogananda didn't meet the Beatles, because the Beatles found them in the 60s. Oh, that's right, but the book he they found the book, it was the Beach Boys. It was the Beach Boys either, but they but yeah, he was, yeah. I think I forgot the year he died, but, um, but anyway, that's why the Sergeant Pepper album has Yogananda and Babaji and all that stuff. Yeah, you know why all of those are on the album. It's George Harrison. Oh, yeah, each Beatle got to pick five people. Oh, wow. And he picked Yogananda, good choice. Wow. Here probably be my choice too. Yeah, he picked, I think was four people. Yeah, he picked all four of them. That's why they're all in the album. So anyway, that's a little bit of ini here, nor there.

Aaron Abke 37:01
Well, you'll appreciate this because you love Hinduism. As well as I do. When he goes to India, he confronts the Brahmin priests for I guess back then, they were doing a lot of idol creation, where they would make this the lower class do, like slave work to create these idols that they would fill in the temples and the homes of everybody. And they would do their chance and Joppa to the idols and stuff, and Jesus is like, Hey, you're you're subjugating these people who God, the Spirit of God dwells within them to make these fake idols that don't have God living in them. And you're harming God to make something that God is not. You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. Stop forcing these people to make your stupid idols and worship God directly. And they were like, We're gonna kill you. And his his Brahmin disciples were like, hey, Jesus, you might wanna get out of here, because they're coming for you. And then he he leaves. He basically always stays until his welcome is up and he goes to the next place.

Alex Ferrari 37:55
I mean, the caste system's a little bit rough, yeah, exactly. So they all have something, yeah, they all have something because they all

Aaron Abke 38:01
Not unique to Christianity

Alex Ferrari 38:02
Absolutely not. There's not, not any philosophy that is perfect because it was created. Philosophies and teachings a lot of times are created by man, not by the initial, the initial master that brought it into the world. So, okay, so I was going to talk to you about the missing years, because it's a lot of there's a lot of controversy, yeah, in those missing years. Yeah, because I always say he was 13, yada yada yada. Wrote a donkey. I was very curious about the yada yada yada. And I've heard the same things in the Mystery Schools in Tibet, in India, in India, for many people who don't know he is. He is very renowned in India as a great and powerful yogi. Oh, yeah, and Tibet. And Tibet, exactly. So my question to you is, when I saw the miracles that he was performing in the Bible, and then I read yoga, Yogananda books, and I went down the road like Man, these seem very yogic in, in the way they're doing. I mean literally, like yogic powers these. And by the way, these yogic powers have been discussed for 6000 years. So you way, way, way before Yeshua walked the earth. So what is your take on Jesus, the yogi?

Aaron Abke 39:24
Well, yeah, the Buddhists also said that Jesus was a Buddha, like a reincarnation of Buddha, or a he had attained Buddhahood. So they revered him as a true master. And apparently, same exact thing as the Bible says when he's 12, and he's like, you know, teaching all the priests, the Jewish priests, and they're like, amazed at his knowledge. Everywhere he went, the priests of that religion were amazed by him, which is just incredible

Alex Ferrari 39:49
And terrified eventually.

Aaron Abke 39:50
Yeah, yeah. But the cool thing is, Jesus came was clearly and unequivocally without any doubt whatsoever, in a scene. And this is amazing subject. To read, not just the biblical evidence, but the extra biblical evidence, which is just mountainous, but he was, we know, a Nazarene. There was, by the first century, at least, there was two sects of the Essenes. They had divided into two sects. The lower Sect was called the ossins. The northern Sect was called the Nazarenes, and there's no like consensus agreed etymology for Nazarene from scholars, because it's, it's very like, kind of lost in time of where this word came from. But scholars speculate that the word Nazar that'd be like the English or Latin translation of Nazarene, Nazarene, and it's a Aramaic or Hebrew word that sort of means keepers of the covenant. It's an abbreviation of a phrase that means keeping the covenant, Nazarene, and then a scene they believe comes from the Aramaic word osim, which means doers of the law. It's an abbreviated version of doers of the law. So you have the Nazar Essenes, Nazarenes, which were the northern branch, which Josephus and Pliny and Philo and tons of first century historians and second and third write about this was a known Essen sect even in the first century. And it kind of the etymology, basically means like the keepers of the Covenant and the doers of the law. So they were a law based Jewish sect that had, you know, the Essenes had kind of separated themselves from Orthodox Judaism of the day because of the animal sacrifice system that they abhorred and thought was a wicked, satanic practice. And Jesus very much, came to condemn the animal sacrifice system and be like, hey, all of your prophets from Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Malachi, all of them condemned sacrifices. Why are you guys still doing it? And they were doing it because it was the biggest profit scheme in in the history of the world up to that point, Josephus says that on Sabbath days they would slaughter 250,000 goats in a single day in the temple. And so Josephus writes that because of the amount of blood, they had to create little like latrines or whatever, to funnel the blood out of the temple. They said the priests robes would be drenched from the the waste down in blood. And you have, you know how many million plus Jews trying to get their sacrifice in for the day. And I don't know what a lamb cost back then, but it was very expensive for those times, right? And they would sell you. It's kind of funny to read about, because your slaughter kit, yeah, yeah. It's like a menu of a slaughter menu, right? You have doves, which are the cheapest one, and goats, and then hawks, yeah. And you get to choose your menu of like, what? What animal do you want to sacrifice today for your sins? And if you're poor, you got to settle for the dove. If you have money, you can buy the goat, or maybe the ox. Ox covers your whole family for at least 20 years, goat, maybe 10, that kind of thing.

Alex Ferrari 42:58
It's basically a snake oil salesman.

Aaron Abke 43:00
Yes, it's like Big Pharma, like they were profiting from the the poor spiritual nature of the Jews that were outsourcing all their power to the the Pharisee priest class, Pharisees and Sadducees. You guys are the medium to God. We got to go through you just tell us what to do. We can't even read the Torah. We have to come to the temple to hear it read. It was a total outsourcing. And so Jesus was like, you've got all these Jews by the balls, basically, and you're just completely taking advantage of them, making them pay you all this money to get their animal sacrifice, which all the Old Testament prophets told you to stop doing, hundreds of years ago. God called it an abomination in the books of the prophets, God said, I've never commanded you to do this. This was never my idea to have your sins forgiven. I want obedience. God says the famous verse, obedience is better than sacrifice. In the Old Testament, of course, in the book of Isaiah, I think, or Psalms, you do not delight in sacrifice. Or else, I would give it. The sacrifices of God are a broken and contrite spirit this, O God, you will not despise. And that was Jesus's gospel. Was repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Means turn away from your sins and come be baptized in the water. Because baptism for Jesus and John the Baptist was the alternative way they were offering to the Jews right to get their sins forgiven, and don't go kill animals with the Pharisees. Come out to the desert of Qumran, and we'll baptize you in the name of the Holy Spirit. Your sins will be forgiven by God, and you can follow God's commandments.

Alex Ferrari 44:33
It was the vegan way of doing. It is what you say. It was the animal less animal cruelty. So was, it wasn't that that specific move or that specific ceremony has such a revenant like it does in the Bible. Now, it was like, We need to give these people something else besides them slaughtering all these

Aaron Abke 44:52
They need a ritual. They need something they don't believe. They can just repent and have their sins forgive. So we gotta, we gotta do a show. We gotta have a show of some sort. And baptism was the. Seen ritual of bathing and cleansing, and the they call it, the angel of water would heal you and cleanse you from sin. So it was like an alternative way. And that's why, you know, this is what John the Baptist was saying in, you know, in the early New Testament, in Matthew, John the Baptist is out there screaming at everybody to come out to the desert with him and get baptized. Right? He's like, come away from that sin over there in Jerusalem, you know, and when Jesus goes into the temple and the famous story where he turns the money tables over the New Testament Gospels we have the canonical gospels, we have to say, have been extremely tampered with and edited and censored from the original Hebrew gospels, which we have some records of, the Greek ones we have today have been highly paganized. They took out almost every reference of Jesus condemning animal sacrifice. And in the Syriac Aramaic gospels, which are older than the Greek ones, there's all these passages in Luke where Jesus is vehemently condemning animal sacrifices and saying he says, Unless you cease from animal sacrifices, the wrath of God will never cease from you. So in this passage, Jesus is saying you're creating your own negative karma, like this is why you've been in captivity for hundreds of years. To the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Romans, it's because you guys have strayed away from God's law and you think you can just make up for all your sins by killing animals. God doesn't want the shedding of innocent blood to atone for sins. God wants repentance and righteousness, and that was Jesus's message. But guess what? When the priestly class is making hand over fist money profit from this sacrificial system, they don't want somebody putting an end to that. It'd be like, you trying to end Big Pharma. It's like, oh, they're coming for you, dude, and they came for Jesus, big time. But I was to circle back to the temple story in the book of John. He goes into the temple, and he turns the tables over, as we know famously, and he says, You've turned my father's house into a den of thieves in in Mark, Matthew and Luke, they say that he frees the cages of the doves. Another one says he frees the lambs. And then in the Gospel of John, it says he opens the cages of the ox, the lambs and the doves, and sets all the animals free. Can you imagine this? Imagine Jesus setting animals loose in the temple to make a point, and then stands on the temple steps and start screaming at the Jews, saying, You've turned my father's house into a den of thieves so he was exposed. It'd be like going to a Pfizer convention and being like you create drugs to kill people like you just put a bullseye target on your head. So like Jesus, very likely got killed by the priestly class because he was opposing their prophet scheme. You know what I mean, not because they were so offended by his teachings like these priests of the day were called the Herodian priests. They were appointed by Herod King Herod of Rome, which is why they were called Herodian, because Herod was like, Hey, I see y'all making a killing over there on your animal sacrifices. I want a piece of the pie, so I'll appoint you to be a priest in the temple, and you can have your dream career as a high priest, and you give me a cut of your temple sacrifices, money man. So that's why the Jews despised the Sadducees, the Herodian Sadducees and Pharisees, because they were like sellouts, right? They were in bed with Rome pretending to be Jewish priests, but really they were like politicians that are bought and paid for, and so they were strongly they weren't allowed to go into the temple. The Jews would never let a Herodian priest come into their temple, because they knew it was all a money scheme. So like, this is the world Jesus was stepping into and waving his finger at. Talk about the cojones. It must have taken for him to do that.

Alex Ferrari 48:41
The thing with Jesus, I you know, and all these, I think all of the Masters, all the Ascended Masters who walk the earth, when they come down, they are not coming into a into a time or an area of the world that is open to their ideas, right? Every one of them, from Buddha, almost never. It just almost never. You're like, Oh, thank God, you're here to teach us. Like, it's never that, yeah, and I can only imagine the frustration of a Buddha, of even a Yogananda here, which is so so documented, because it was just so recent, yeah, the frustrations of what he had to deal with. I can't imagine, you know, in a time when you're dealing with all the businesses sacrifice, he's trying to talk about, oh, the power is within you. Like those kind of ideas just were so foreign.

Aaron Abke 49:33
Well, you see why the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't have wanted to teach Jesus's actual gospel. They wanted Paul's Gospel, because Paul's Gospel is very weaponizable. You can scare the living daylights out of the business, because a good business model, right? Believe this or burn in hell, and we're the only Savior to help you. Yes, and if you are a heretic, because now that we have this religion, we get to decide who's the heretics, right? If you are a here. Tick. God's already planning on torturing you forever. So what does it matter if we what does it matter if we get you out of here a little sooner, right? And thus, the Crusades, right? It's, it's a holy war in the name of Jesus. Because, hey, if you don't confess Jesus, you're an evil heretic. And if God's gonna torture you forever, why would it be bad for us to kill you

Alex Ferrari 50:21
Inquisition. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.

Aaron Abke 50:23
And Jesus said, You always know a tree by its fruit. Look at the fruit that the polyanity, I like to call it, that the gospel of Paul created was all these inquisitions, holy wars, crusades, millions and millions of untold deaths in the name of Jesus Christ, when Jesus taught pacifism, turn the other cheek, forgive your enemy, 70 times seven, go the extra mile, he taught everything opposite of what we've seen the church doing over history, because it's a bad tree that bears bad fruit. Jesus's gospel, that tree could never bear such bad fruit, right? You know, so where did it get lost?

Alex Ferrari 51:00
Oh, it got lost a second. He he was gone pretty much. I mean, the second. Well, Yogananda, one of my favorite yoga and other quotes, is like, Jesus was crucified on the cross in one day, but his teachings have been crucified for the last 2000 years. Yeah, yeah. Which I want to ask you about that, because it's something that, and this is a, this is really, really, really controversial, nice, and I love to hear your thoughts about it? I've heard that the crucifixion was also a part of that narrative, and that he that Mary Magdalene was not the town whore, that he that was his wife, that more than likely he had children, and he did not die on the cross, that He actually went to India. There was a filmmaker that I had on the show who made a movie called Jesus in India. And there's a little area between Pakistan and India where Mary died on route to India, Mary Magdalene, but Mary the Holy Mary, mom, okay? And that she's that, that her resting place is still there. And depending on who controls that land, it kind of goes back and forth between Pakistan and forth between Pakistan and India, depending on the time they built around this thing, like there's towers, but built around, like it's like a shrine. And nobody really, you know, people talk about, you can't film it, that he snuck in, filmed it. Oh, wow, he snuck in. He almost got, I mean, he would, they would have caught him, but they he filmed. And he caught in there and filmed a bit of it, and you're just sitting there, like, what is that? So I'd love to hear from your research, not Da Vinci Code stuff, but you want to go Da Vinci, but from your research, because that is, I mean, we've been, we've been dabbling on and talking a lot about the truths of Jesus's life and his teachings, but the crucifixion is like, one of the story points in that story. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Aaron Abke 52:47
Yeah, so much you could say, I mean, I remember watching this incredible documentary that was on YouTube when I watched it, so it may still be there. I can't remember the name of it. Off the top my head, it's, it's something like the tomb of Jesus or something. But these archeologists found, so it was under a apartment building in Israel. I think I've heard this, yeah, it's such a sad story, man, yeah, I think it was builders found some cave underneath apartments as they were building the foundation, or digging the foundation, archeologists come out, go to excavate it, and as they go in, it's a ossuary, for which, once somebody's body had decayed, they would take the bones and put them in a bone box, an ossuary, and save the bone box. A lot of it had to do with the resurrection of the dead, of the flesh is going to be attached back on your bones and your, you know, all that stuff. So they would keep the bones in a lot of these traditions in Judaism, and keep all the family's bone boxes in the same tomb. So they find this tomb that has Jesus, all of Jesus's brothers, as listed in the New Testament. It has Jesus, son of Joseph, Mary, Magdalene, next to Jesus. And then there a son whose name was, it might have been like Jacob, son of SON OF JESUS. They find these bone boxes inscribed in Hebrew Aramaic, and there's all these different clues that it's was probably a genuine ossuary, or the genuine ossuary of the Christ family, because one of the brothers' names doesn't match up with Matthew and Luke of when they list the brothers of Jesus, but in the Gospel of Mark, if you actually look at the Greek word, the Greek name for one of the brothers, and I don't remember it, but it starts with a C, and it's a different name, instead of like, Jude or something, it's a C name, and that's one of the boxes was inscribed, and they're like, Oh, We don't recognize this name. And then a scholar came in and was like, wait a minute, and goes to the Greek translation of Mark, and that's the exact name in Greek of that brother before it was translated differently to English. So they're like, whoa. This is really, there's some dots connecting here. This is not something you would fake. You know, if you're faking an ossuary, you. And they're about to carbon date the bone fragments that are in there. A lot of the bones were stolen, but there were some fragments, and carbon date them and stuff. And the Jewish authorities hear about it, and of course, it's against the Torah to, like, dig up a grave and all this stuff. So they're like, Absolutely not. You're not allowed to go down there. And they sealed it off and kicked all the archeologists out. Of course they did. So like, we could have potentially had, and still could maybe one day, like genetic evidence, DNA evidence of Jesus's children. Because if you could match the DNA of the bones between Christ and, you know, Jesus and Mary to the Son, you would find if there was a match or not, and that would confirm absolute authenticity, because no one can fake that, right? So that's it's interesting. But I think I've wrestled a lot with the question of, did Jesus really rise from the dead? Because there are masters who have been said to have done that. It wouldn't be the first one. And I know that it's metaphysically possible Babaji is still walking around, yeah. Supposedly Babaji is, you know, 1000 years old, but like to physically die and come back, right? And you get into the Shroud of Turin, which is a whole nother subject. I'm sure you've researched amazing subject where you're like, wow, everything they've ever done to test this shroud, to disprove it has proved its authenticity. I mean, the craziest ones. I mean, there's tons we could talk about, but just to highlight it, is the, I think it's called bilirubin. It's a hormone that they found in the blood on the shroud. Not only can they not figure out how the impression is put into the shroud, they today, we could not duplicate it. We're like, we don't know how they impressed this image of this man, because it's not, it's not paint or anything. It's like a some kind of gamma radiation, which is crazy, right? The documentary is amazing on the Shroud of Turin, but in the blood, this is, to me, the kicker the blood marks that are on the shroud. They tested the DNA of the blood, and they found really high concentrations of this hormone called bilirubin, unless I'm getting it wrong. And they said, This is a hormone the body only produces under extreme physical stress and trauma, meaning you have to torture somebody to get this hormone to come out. So this is the blood of a tortured person. And if someone was trying to fake this, and let's say they used fake blood from somebody else, you have to torture them. No one would ever know. Oh, one day, people will be able to test the blood and know if this was a tortured person or not. They would just take somebody's blood and paint it on the thing, but it's the blood of a tortured person, and that's just one of the tons and tons of evidence as the shroud dates back to the first century. So I take all this evidence in and I'm like, wow, what if it's possible? And for me, like I've been so inspired studying the Nazarenes, the Jesus's 12, hand selected disciples who were led by his brother, James the Just, James the righteous, who Jesus appointed as his successor, not Paul. And these Nazarene Jews, the Nazarene Christians, they were the first Christians, right? They were the actual disciples of Jesus, and they taught about these things very heavily in their Nazarene the Nazarene texts which were heavily censored and burned and banned by the Roman Catholic Church, but thankfully, we have some records of them still in the clementine recognitions and other books like that. And these men were not only incredibly inspiring humans, like they all were martyred for Jesus in the most horrible ways, and they went to their their torturous deaths, professing that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and walked among us. We saw him, we learned from him, we witnessed His resurrection. And it's like, Would all of these men die for something that they knew was a lie? I have a hard time believing that. And not only that, but just the writings of like Peter and James are so high frequency. When you read that, especially the book of James, it's like you read the book of James, who was again, the first bishop of Jesus's established Church, the leader of Jesus's movement, and there's not a whisper of Pauline theology in it. It's all the gospel teachings of Jesus in the New Testament of righteous living, obedience to God's commandments, serving others. Faith without works, is dead, which is a direct opposition to Paul's teaching. And so in all these writings of these men, I'm like these, there's no doubt that these writings are coming from very spiritually embodied people. And all of these men who went to their deaths confessing that Jesus rose from the dead. How do you say that they were all lying? And then you have the Shroud of Turin and other historical records of people that have said that, you know, they saw the resurrected Christ. And I had to sit with it and say, am I open to the possibility that Jesus did resurrect from the dead in some way? And the answer is, of course, yes. I believe that that's possible. And if that was possible, and it did happen, you could see how a religion would have. Quickly formed around that person. And for some people who never met Jesus, like Paul, may have even distorted that religion to be like, Wow, it's all about His resurrection. That's the whole reason He came.

Alex Ferrari 1:00:10
Well, I mean, again, that's a great plot point. It's a great point, and it's a great controlling mechanism as well, because it's like he's died for your sins, right? He sent it. So God sent his quote, unquote, only son down, whatever that means, whatever that means, sends him down to die for your sins, because you guys are just so out of control. Yeah, I'm gonna sacrifice my child, and he's gonna come down. Like it just

Aaron Abke 1:00:37
Well on that note, dude, like the Old Testament first of all, says in Ezekiel and Deuteronomy that the death of a righteous person cannot atone for the sins of a wicked person. It's in the Old Testament. But not only that, what is the logic here? How are you going to tell me that you know to sin is to do something evil, wrong, right? How are you going to tell me that God atones for evil with more evil,

Alex Ferrari 1:01:03
Right!

Aaron Abke 1:01:04
You know what I mean, like, how are you going to Romney that by God violently murdering a righteous man? Somehow the violent evil death of a righteous man atones for more evil. It's like a negative does not wipe out a negative. That's just a positive, right? They have to balance each other, and so the death of a righteous person can't atone for the sins of somebody else. Only you can atone for your sins by repenting from them, turning your whole heart to God.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:33
So with that said, then the concept of the resurrection or the crucifixion doesn't make a lot of sense based on the logic that you just course, did you said later, makes sense. So then let's say that he was, for arguments, a crucified and He was, I believe he was, and he and he raised, and he was raised from the dead. When did he have children? When did he get married? Yeah. When did that happen?

Aaron Abke 1:01:58
I think before the crucifixion, most likely. I mean, one is never mentioned. One of the things that the Nicholas nodovich book, The Hidden life of Issa, says in the records the Tibetan records, was that he died around 48 years old, that he that's a lot longer, yeah, he lived to be 48 apparently not 33 he had the 18 missing years, and then he had, like, an 18 year ministry in Palestine before He was crucified.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:23
So, from, from, uh, some other, my mother, again, I've asked this question. We've gone down this road with other guests as well. My understanding is that he didn't have a resurrection, but he came back. And when he came back, people, Oh, my God, he's brought, been brought back to life, or something along those could be, there's 1000 things. Yeah, that could be, we're talking about deep things, but it's just, it's just interesting to have these conversations, because the historical facts laid out, um, don't always line up, you know, especially

Aaron Abke 1:02:54
In fact, they usually contradict directly, completely. That's what I've discovered.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:58
So do you? So you believe, though, that Jesus, when he was in India, found, and in Tibet, found enlightenment, in a sense, where he was able to to achieve Those yogic powers, like healing manifestation, like physical manifestations, levitation, all these things. Do you think that that's what happened? Like he had a master from, from what Yogananda says, Babaji was taught him, Oh, that'd be cool. That would be amazing, that Babaji was, according to the autobiography yogi, that Babaji was a big help in the scenario of not only him, but he's the master of masters. Yeah, he's the teacher of all masters, because he's been here, from what I understand, 2500 years, maybe, okay, that's what the that's what the Autobiography of a Yogi says. So that's really fascinating to me, yeah. And what's really interesting too, is like, when, Jesus, you know, people say, Hey, I'm I'm Christian. You're not. I this is one thing I happened when I was in Catholic school. I'm like, but there's like a billion Buddhists out there, and there's like a like another billion Hindus out there. Are they all just damn to hell because they just weren't lucky enough to find Jesus. Does that make sense?

Aaron Abke 1:04:23
There's more. There's another logical fallacy that I would put to my Christian friends when I was coming out of Christianity, was like, I can't rock with this message, because your God is a total loser. According according to you, only Christians are going to heaven, right? That's what you say you believe. So let's look at the logic of that. If, at best, we could say a quarter of the world is Christian, which it's much less than that. But let's give the best, most generous estimate, that 25% of the world presents themselves as a Christian, and let's forget that every denomination says that all the other ones are heretics and going to hell. Yeah. All the 30,000 denominations all say we're the only correct one, but let's assume they're all correct, and that if you're just a Christian of any flavor, you're going to heaven. Even in that best case scenario, the devil beats God three to one right. The devil takes 75% of God's children to the eternal torture chamber and says, neener Nene or Neen or I got your children, and God has to be satisfied with a measly quarter of them. That's not the God I know. You know, not only do I not know a God that loses to the devil, I don't know a god. I don't know a universe where there is a devil, in the sense of there's a second power called Satan who opposes God's power, and it's God versus the devil in this universe, and they're always

Alex Ferrari 1:05:44
Created Satan. But that's another story

Aaron Abke 1:05:48
In the universe that Jesus preached, in the universe that I experienced, there's only one power. There's only one God. The Old Testament says this here, oh Israel, the Lord, your God is one. There is none else beside me. So even the invention of the devil is a deviation from the truth of what Jesus taught and what the Old Testament teaches that there is no other God, there is no other power. And yet we give Christianity gives the devil so much power, which was another one of my big contentions at that age.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:16
And the other thing is that the Old Testament God, I always found them to be very insecure. And also, you know, have anger issues extremely, yeah, extreme anger issues, very insecure. You must bow down to me. You must learn my it was just like, Why create like? Imagine if you were telling your kid you must bow down, obey me, or else, obey me, or else, which is, many of our parents and our grandparents did something like that, but, but generally, like, at a a high, high level, like, if not, I will smite you. I will kill you. I will, like, it seems so ungodly.

Aaron Abke 1:06:56
Where's there room for love in that equation? Right?

Alex Ferrari 1:06:59
There's like, Is There Love in the Old Testament? Like, is there much?

Aaron Abke 1:07:02
There's a lot of fear.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:04
I mean,there's a lot of fear, but there's not a lot of love,

Aaron Abke 1:07:08
Not a lot if it's in there. And this, some of the Psalms talked about, hey, you know, maybe loving God's the best thing to do, and that is the first commandment, right? Is Love the Lord your God. But they had gotten so caught up in fearing God because of the wrath and all the you know, every ancient culture believed that their gods were responsible for their victories and their defeats. You know, they gave credit to their gods when they won a battle, when they lost a battle, they saw it as punishment. They all offered animal sacrifices. This was every pagan ideology of the world in that time. So it's no wonder the Jews got caught up in that, especially being in captivity to the Babylonians. And this was kind of the message of Jesus and his disciples. Was like you guys went astray when you became obsessed with these animal sacrifices. And God has always said, what I want is obedience to my commandments, and that is the way you demonstrate your love for God. That's why Jesus said, don't call me Lord Lord and not do what I say. Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father. And in another passage, someone says, Lord, what commandment should I follow to enter into eternal life? And Jesus, according to Paul, should have said, Oh, you don't enter eternal life by obeying commandments. There's no one righteous, not even one. You have to confess me as your Lord and Savior. That clearly would have been what he said if Paul's version of Jesus was true. And what does Jesus say? He says, If you want to enter eternal life, keep the commandments. And he says, which ones? And he says, Love the Lord your God. Do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery. He lists the 10 Commandments. And then he the guy says, Lord, all of these I have kept from my womb. And then he says, Great. Now, if you want to be made perfect, sell everything you possess to the poor and come follow me. So he was saying, Great, you've got eternal life. But if you want to go even higher than that, if you want to go for perfection and, like, sell everything and be my disciple. So he never told anybody confess Me as Lord. He never called himself God. In fact, he put people down. He was he was uncomfortable. He was like, don't call me good. Only God is good. When people tried to worship him, don't worship me only, only worship God, and He rebuked people in multiple occasions for calling him Lord because they didn't do what he said. They didn't follow His commandments. And that's just an absolute, flagrant contradiction between the Christianity we know today that says all you have to do is confess Jesus, just believe He died for your sins. That's all you have to do. And now you're going to heaven and you're saved, and Jesus said, Ah, away from me, you who practice wickedness, for I never knew you because, yeah, you called me Lord all day long, but when I was hungry, you didn't feed me. And on and on and on. So it's like we have two completely opposite gospel messages. Yeah, and I think it behooves every Christian to come to understand this, that not only this, this, great scholars call it the Battle of the apostles, the fact that this is well documented in the Bible, and especially outside the Bible, in like first century, sources that the apostle Paul and Jesus's brother James and his 12 hand selected disciples were mortal enemies with each other, and they were trying to extinguish one another's gospels. We have Paul talking about Jesus's disciples in his own writings, and then we have the Dead Sea Scrolls,

Alex Ferrari 1:10:38
Talk about the what I've heard of the Dead Sea. Oh man, this is Jesus time, no, and I know when they came out, it was a ruckus. So can you talk? Can you go down the road a little bit with the DC, the Dead Sea Scrolls,

Aaron Abke 1:10:50
The dds, dss. So on that note, when you when you learn about this, and it's undeniable when you see it, and I'm doing a whole presentation next Saturday on this in Ford University called the gospel conspiracy, how the gospel of Jesus was replaced by the gospel of Paul. When you see it, you can't unsee it. And it behooves every confessing Christian to say, Okay, I've got to make a real decision here. Of Who do I think had Jesus's message right? Was it Jesus's brother and his 12 hand selected disciples who in the New Testament, Jesus gave all his authority to them, and he even said, You 12 will rule over Israel on the 12 thrones. And he gave them his power to cast out demons and heal the sick. He anointed them. Or was it a Pharisee Jew named Paul, who never met Jesus and was a persecutor of Christians most of his life, until his big conversion experience. Which of those two camps do I trust more knew Jesus's message better? Would it really not have been his own disciples? And what's funny is, in Christianity, this is a whole a whole denomination. It's called dispensationalism, which says that, yes, in fact, Jesus's 12 disciples got it wrong. Paul got it right. And the reason that this this branch of Christianity, developed, is because this schism between Paul and Jesus's disciples is so obvious and clear and undeniable that you Christians can't just pretend it's not true anymore, because they run a greater risk. They've got to have a better answer for it. And so they say it is actually true that Jesus's disciples missed it and they didn't understand his true message. And so Jesus had to reveal it to Paul privately after his death. It's called dispensationalism, which means the everything Jesus said in those red letters passed away once he rose from the dead. That was Old Covenant. And Jesus made a New Covenant when he was crucified, and now we're under a new a new law. So like Paul says, Jesus abolished the law of Moses. Paul said that the law was a curse, the law of Moses was a curse, and we're no longer under the curse thanks to Jesus's death. But what did Jesus say? Jesus said, I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And he said, not a single iota of the law will pass away before Heaven and Earth themselves pass away.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:16
So it's basically Paul's like, well, that's old Canon, yes. So it doesn't apply anymore. It doesn't apply anymore. So Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, that's old stuff in this new part of this new thing. We're gonna have Luke drinking space milk, space milk from from a monster teat. And that's new canon. And people who follow the old cannon were very upset about this new canon.

Aaron Abke 1:13:40
Oh yes,

Alex Ferrari 1:13:42
Bring it down. Back down.

Aaron Abke 1:13:44
I'll get into the Dead Sea Scrolls. But this is one of the amazing things in the New Testament. Is in the book of Acts, Paul gets called before the Jewish church. This the James and the disciples a number of times in the book of Acts, to come give an account of, hey, what are you preaching to people? Dude, and when he goes before James, I believe in Acts 15 James, when they make almost no mention of James in the book of Acts or the whole New Testament, which is like a huge scandal, because this is the appointed successor of Jesus and His own blood brother, who is called James the zaddique, which is the highest honoring title in Essen Judaism, which means the righteous one, the teacher of righteousness. In Judaism, I believe this is in the Talmud. They believe that there's 36 zaddik on planet Earth at all times that God keeps at least 36 anointed ones, avatars, righteous people, so that he doesn't have to destroy the world because of all the sinful karma. So it's it's thanks to these 36 people, minimum, 36 God never lets it go below that. Apparently, it's thanks to these 36 zadeek that Heaven and Earth have come into being, that God does not destroy the earth because these righteous people live on Earth. So it's like they're keeping. Safe from the wrath of God. We deserved the wrath, of course. So they gave James the title of the zadeek, the teacher of righteousness, which was like the Pope of the Essenes. Scholars believe it was probably John the Baptist who was almost certainly Jesus's kind of guru or master. Jesus was clearly a disciple of John, the Baptist. And then Jesus becomes his successor. He gets John gets beheaded, and then Jesus becomes the new zadeek, or teacher of righteousness. And then who did Jesus pass his title on to? Was James. So James was the zadeek, or the just, and his 12 apostles, Paul gets called before them. And they make very little mention of James, but they do mention that he's the leader of the church. And James says to Paul, you the Jews have been accusing you of apostasia. Is the Greek word that you are teaching them to forsake the commandments of Moses and apostasy would be the greatest accusation you could make. And now the new the King James, doesn't use the word apostasy because they'd be way too harsh language to let Christians read. They say, I can't remember what the word is, but it's like forsaking, or that you're forsaking the law of Moses, but James said that you're committing apostasia, teaching people not to follow the commandments of Moses. And Paul essentially denies it. No, no, I would never teach that, which, of course, he was all through his epistles. The Law of Moses is a curse. Don't follow it. It's Jesus abolished it. But when he's in front of the disciples, he's like, Oh, I would never teach that. And they make him take the Nazarite vow to prove to everybody that he's not anti law, but that he obeys the law. And he takes this Nazareth, the seven day vow, where he purifies himself and all this stuff. And so it's this scandalous thing that the apostles are trying to call Paul into account for his teachings. So in the Dead Sea Scrolls, this is the amazing story the Dead Sea scrolls that they were discovered in 1947 I believe. And very quickly, the Vatican sent its team over to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they they took the Catholic scholars, took the scrolls into the Rockefeller library or museum, and they kept them sequestered there for like 40 years without sharing them to the public. And you have all these scholars around the world, Jewish scholars, Christian scholars, non Christian scholars who are dying to get their hands on these documents in the Vatican. The French Catholics from the Vatican are like, nope, we've got them, and we're doing our work on them. Don't worry. We'll let you know what they say.

So thanks to the work of a couple scholars named Robert Eisenman and Michael wise, in the late 80s, early 90s, they went to legal war with the Vatican scholars saying, you guys don't have the right to keep these documents to yourself. And they eventually won, and the Dead Sea Scrolls were released to the public. And then all the scholars started tearing into them. And now, what the what the Vatican scholars, the Catholic scholar, said, was, Oh, these are a bunch of scrolls by ancient and ancient sect called the Essenes. And so they're not Christian documents. They're not from the early Christian movement. Don't worry. Nothing to see here, just a couple 100 years before that, from the Essenes. And what's funny is there's no mention of the word Essenes in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Everything that we know about the Essenes from like Josephus and Pliny and Philo that they were vegetarians, they were super anti war pacifists. They lived in the Qumran desert, on and on and on. All the documents in the Dead Sea Scrolls are very opposite of that. They're very like they call them the zealots. They're very zealots documents, meaning they're all about the end of the age. They're apocalyptic, they're messianic. They're about going to war with the dark forces of the world, and this great apocalypse is coming where God's going to judge everyone. And they're very warlike, almost, which was classic Judaism of the first century. It's kind of like militant Islam. They were very militant about their faith and zealous for the law. So the Christian scholars and non Christian scholars are going over these documents being like, there's no mention of the scenes here. Like, there's some correlations, but like, there's a whole lot of other stuff here that's making us scratch our heads. And one of the words that is in the Dead Sea Scrolls is the nasaim and the ebian ebians, which means the poor ones. And so the Ebionites is a sect of early Christians that first, second and third century scholars and historians document that they were vehemently against Paul, the apostle. They called him an apostate. They said that he was deceived by a demon who was pretending to be Jesus in order to corrupt Jesus's gospel. And when you study the Dead Sea Scrolls, there's these themes that keep appearing. They talk about the zadiek, the zadiek, the zadiek the teacher of righteousness. We know that that was James's name, title given. They talk about this person called the spouter of. Lies and the law free liar. And they paint this story in so many of these documents, the Habakkuk pesher and the war scroll, where they're talking about the teacher of righteousness versus the spouter of lies. And that the spouter of lies had come from within their own camp, that he was a Jew, basically, who had gone astray and was spouting lies and the law free liars, a pretty descriptive term for it. And then another figure called the Wicked Priest, who eventually kills the teacher of righteousness. And this is what happened to James. He was killed by ananus, the high priest. He was stoned to death very unjustly. And it caused such an uproar among the Jews that ananus was deposed from his station as high priest by Agrippa, because he's like, Dude, you stirred up all the Jews to this riot because you killed their favorite guy. Get out of here, man, I'm trying to keep the peace. You're ruining my peace, right? So he deposes ananus, and then the followers of James, murder him and parade his body through the streets. This is on Dead Sea Scrolls, Dead Sea Scrolls, and it's in Josephus and some first century historians, they parade his body and violate his body in the streets to make a mockery of him, because James, the just was so revered and respected and well loved. I mean, you can imagine, he's the brother of Jesus and Josephus and Philo and Eusebius. These writers talk about James like he was just a little bit beneath Jesus in people's eyes, because he was Jesus's appointed successor and his own blood brother. So like, of course, they revered him as a Christ like figure, and this Wicked Priest, ananus, has him stoned without a trial. It was a scandalous thing, and he paid big time for it. And so the Dead Sea Scrolls document this using this language of the Wicked Priest killing the teacher of righteousness who was trying to disprove the spouter of lies and his false doctrine. And you're like James Paul ananus, these characters fit perfectly into the figures talked about in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And then on top of that, all of the coins that they found. This is the kicker. They found coins scattered all throughout the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they all date exactly in the first century Jesus movement of Palestine, when James the Just was the leader of the Christian church for 30 years, 44 ad to 66 ad just before Rome got destroyed. Jerusalem got destroyed by Rome. All the coins date to those exact dates. It's almost like the universe left a trail of coins to be like no denying when these texts were written and what generation they came from. So the Ebionites means the poor ones, and that comes from Jesus's teaching. Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So they were called Nazarenes, and Ebionites were the interchangeable words and followers of the way. And this is all through the book of Acts. These definitions the way. The Nazarenes, the first Christian sect. Paul is accused of being a Nazarene and follower of the way by the Jewish Sanhedrin. So it's in the Bible. It's an extra biblical sources, and it's in the Dead Sea Scrolls, three different sources confirming that these texts were the actual scrolls of James the Just and Jesus's 12 disciples from the first century. These are the Christian scrolls of Jesus's movement that they had to bury in these caves to keep them from the inquisition of Rome, burning them like they did all the other sacred texts. It's basically the library of Jerusalem that they took out into the desert to preserve it with all of these Nazarene documents. And so this is a scandalous, explosive discovery that we it's hard to put it into words. Actually, this is the greatest This makes the what's the Da Vinci Code? This makes the Da Vinci code look like child's play honestly with how explosive This is that there was an absolute schism between Paul and the disciples. Again, it forces every Christian to because what if this is true? Right? If you're a Christian listening to this, what if this is true that your Master Jesus had his gospel distorted and changed over time and lost to time, and you've been following mostly a false gospel of his. Wouldn't it behoove you to want to do the research to confirm if that's true, and if there was this great schism between Paul and the disciples, doesn't that put an onus on you to decide whose gospel do I trust more?

Alex Ferrari 1:24:35
But but Aaron is a lot easier just to go along with the program, sir.

Aaron Abke 1:24:39
And there we have it.

Alex Ferrari 1:24:41
Yes, I mean, I don't have time. That's it. I mean, I'll just, I mean, the father guy told me this, it's easier just to believe what I'm told I'm Yeah, it's much easier. You want me to do work. It's a lot. Now, you mentioned the Vatican, which is one of my favorite topics to talk about. Oh, wow. I love to talk about the Vatican. Ever since I went I was just like. In awe of this place of like, I can't believe that this exists and that has nothing, nothing to do, yeah, with Jesus's teachings. Like nothing whatsoever.

Aaron Abke 1:25:13
It's very anti actually,

Alex Ferrari 1:25:14
All of it, the pomp and serpent stance of it all, and the dressing and the gold everywhere the riches is just I mean, if you haven't been the walls are dripping with gold. I mean the amount the artwork. I mean their propaganda campaign of the Renaissance is hiring every single Renaissance painter to draw or to paint images of, right? Their narrative? Yep, it's everywhere. It's everywhere.

Aaron Abke 1:25:50
In fact, my one of my best friends, ironically, his name is James, is in Italy right now, and he went to the Vatican and was sending me pictures and texted me all about it, and he said the same thing. He was like, Dude, the amount of gold in this end, world hunger 20 times.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:06
Oh, so much gold. So much riches. When you go through the Vatican Museum, it is like an embarrassment of riches. Wow, so insane. Because I've said this before, but when you're when you're walking through, you know, like when you go to a museum and you'll see like, one or two beautiful like statues or something like that. They have rooms that they're literally almost, it almost looks like a warehouse. They're just piled up on top of each other, stacked to 3040, feet, up on walls, like on walls everywhere, every walls covered. And I'm going, and this is what they're showing us. You know, any one of these pieces is the main piece of a museum over here. Like, people would come just to see one of these pieces, yep. And they're everywhere. And then, and then just walking around like, oh, Michelangelo did that. Oh, Raphael did that. Oh, there's the frescas, okay? And it's just constant. Then as you're walking through it again, you start like, well, that's Egypt, that's Sumerian. That's like, they stole all this. Yeah, for sure, it's all stolen. So from your research, how much stuff does the Vatican archives actually have? Like, do they have? You know, I not only original writings, because Jesus, to my understanding, never wrote anything, right? Yeah, he was, he never wrote anything down. But as close to those original teachings, got to believe they have something in there that only very, very, very few people ever get to see, from what I understand, it's five miles of underground tunnels and experiences. That's how big it is. Oh, my, it's five miles.

Aaron Abke 1:27:50
Wow, I didn't know that

Alex Ferrari 1:27:51
Five miles. And apparently they also have a large underground facility in like Utah, no way, like Utah or Nevada, or interest, one of those things as well. The Vatican's purchased Wow as well. So it's, it's, it's really, really fascinating. But I'd love to hear what you've come across in your in your research, of, like, What the hell do they have in there? Because they're so protective and no one gets to go in there. Like, you can't just go in, no, no, and it's just, it's in incalculable what's there?

Aaron Abke 1:28:27
I mean, there's a lot of good evidence that the Library of Alexandria wasn't actually burned down, but all the books were taken by the Vatican and taken to their secret library.

Alex Ferrari 1:28:39
What year was that the burning of Alexandria was like was during the Roman times, obviously. So yes, it was, I don't remember. It was this pre that's pre Jesus, yeah, bye, bye. But by a little bit,

Aaron Abke 1:28:50
I don't know, I might have been after Jesus.

Alex Ferrari 1:28:52
It's within 100 years, something like that.

Aaron Abke 1:28:54
Yeah, I don't know if it was the Ottoman Empire at that time he burned it down. But anyway, there's great evidence that would suggest they may have most, if not all, of the Library of Alexandria, which would absolutely change the world overnight, if we could read those documents and learn about the actual history that's been lost with time. But there's the original. It's called the Hebrew gospel, or the gospel of the Nazarenes, or the gospel of the holy 12. Now scholars know that likely the disciples, and this makes sense, would have written down some teachings of their master to try and commemorate him, right? Of course, as he was alive. Yeah, this is what you would have done. Is like, unless we write this down, he never existed, so, like, we've got to preserve his teachings. And so there's an original source, a Hebrew source of the Gospels, basically, which would have been like one gospel, and it was called the gospel of the holy 12. It's mentioned by a few people, like, I think, Eusebius and some Jerome maybe that they knew of this document. But it was one of those first books that was burned and banned by the Roman Catholic Church. And in this. Document, first of all, that says, it talks about the missing years. It says that Jesus went to Egypt, and it says he learned the secret of the circle and the square, which to me, means sacred geometry, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:30:14
I was, well, I was gonna say the pyramid was not in there, that the triangle wasn't literally, but I understand what you mean, yeah, sacred geometry.

Aaron Abke 1:30:22
So this, this document, was discovered by a Franciscan monk in the early 1800s in a it was in an urn in a Buddhist monastery so early Christians when this crazy book burning campaign happened, from which was the name of the Emperor the pope de meses. Pope de meses was the first one that really like said, Hey, all Nazarene texts are outlawed. You cannot have them. You cannot own them. You cannot read them. You cannot transcribe them, or to be put to death. And they went on this big book burning campaign to get rid of all the original scrolls from Jesus's actual disciples and followers, so they could put Paul's in, right? And so Christians, these early Christians, would flee with these documents to areas that they knew were safe keeping, which would have really just been like Tibet in India, maybe, and Buddh temples, yeah, yeah. So they went. A lot of these people, apparently went to Tibet. And the Tibetans have these legends of followers of Issa, you know, coming with these scrolls to have them kept there. So this Franciscan monk finds this scroll called the gospel of the holy 12, the Nazarene gospel, and he takes it, and he's traveling back to Rome with it. And this, I think he was like 19 or something, very young kid, a Franciscan, 1800s right? 1800s not too long, nope. And he takes it to he so he starts to translate it into Latin on his way. And he translates the first like half of it into Latin. And it's, it's amazing. It's, there's an English translation of it available now that you can read and it Jesus talks all about doing no harm to animals, and like being a vegetarian and not eating or sacrificing animals. Oh, good lord, yeah, which is like,

Alex Ferrari 1:32:10
Can you imagine? Yeah. I mean, we're in Texas.

Aaron Abke 1:32:12
I know that's big news. And just all these beautiful stories of Jesus having compassion on animals. Like, there's one story of a man who, he comes across a man whose camel had collapsed under the heat of the sun or whatever, and he was beating his camel with this whip to get him to stand up. And Jesus comes over and, you know, screams at the guy. He's like, What are you doing to this poor creature? And he gives the guy a lesson being like, God has created all creatures, and this is God in this camel that you're you're beating and so you should repent for the sin and treat your animal kindly. And Jesus helps the camel stand up and, you know, prays for the camel, and the guy repents, you know. So there's all these stories like this, of Jesus intervening with animal cruelty, and then, of course, just over and over condemning animal sacrifice. And you just, you just can't have a religion about Jesus being the final sacrifice of God. When Jesus himself was opposing sacrifices left and right, it doesn't work. So you've got to scrub it all out. And that's what they did. So this poor, innocent kid who was well meaning, but just not aware of the what he was dealing with, the trouble he was in. Yeah, he takes this scroll to his the Catholic priests and bishops, and he reads it to them, and they're like, You better give us that. And they take it and lock it in their secret archives. And so I can't remember the name of the monk, but no, the whole document was taken into the Vatican. Another copy of it was apparently found in Russia or France or somewhere like that, and then, and that's been translated. And, you know, Christians like, Oh, that's a forged document. It's fake. You know, there's not, like, a lot of scholarly proof to back it up, but we know that this, the name of this document is very real, because we have third century historians talking about it. So this was like they talk about Q being the original Gospel source that the Matthew Mark, Luke and John writers pulled from Q is like the document that shows the correlation of hey, all four, I think all three of Matthew Mark and Luke have these same teachings of Jesus, word for word, and then the rest of the details are all different. So these early writers who were writing these Greek, sort of like pagan gospels, were clearly pulling from this original Hebrew source. And they call it Q, and I believe, and a lot of people believe that that was the gospel of the holy 12. So the Vatican has that which would be the most scandalous revelation of all time, if that document.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:46
Among other scandals to deal with.

Aaron Abke 1:34:48
I mean, pick your scandal, right, exactly.

Alex Ferrari 1:34:50
But isn't it interesting, though, how, and I know when you were growing up, and I was growing up, you know, the Roman Catholic Church was just instead. Institution that you could not even Yeah, dent Yeah, but that's not the case anymore. Yeah, it is. You could see cracks. Oh, yeah. And people are leaving not only that religion, but a lot of fear based religions by the truckloads. Yeah, because people are just not the frequency of them, their frequency. Yeah, they're not, they're not vibing with it anymore.

Aaron Abke 1:35:23
There's an awakening.

Alex Ferrari 1:35:24
Yeah, there's an awakening going on. Can you talk a little bit about what you see happening? Because even friends of mine, who were, you know, I was never really, you know, a Catholic. I was questioning it since I was in first grade. I was just like, like, you know, I'm like, Oh, I have to sit up. I gotta sit down. I gotta kneel. I gotta do this. I gotta listen to this guy talk. Like, I never really connected with me totally, even though I went to Catholic schools and all that kind of stuff. So I can't say, like, Oh, my Catholic friends, most of my friends who went to Catholic school, they're just like, you know, it was, it wasn't hardcore, you know, in that sense, even though the school was hardcore, they were not. But a lot of people who are friends of mine are people who listen to the show or watch the show. They're curious, and they're looking in, they're asking questions, kind of like you go down the ancient mystery routes of like how the pyramids were built, or what, when those sphinx was built? Or what? Yeah, what was that? What's the true meaning of this? Where's the holy who's, where's the Holy Grail? What's, what actually was the Ark of the Covenant? Those kind of down those rabbit holes. There's so much more curiosity now, and a lot more information, a lot more information. So what? So what are you seeing? Is this, this awakening that we're going through?

Aaron Abke 1:36:39
Yeah, well, it's, I like that. You brought up the Vatican because it is a perfect picture of what people are waking up from. You know, we, in our last podcast a few years ago, we talked about the law of one a lot, of course, yeah, and most people know me as a Law of One. Teacher, in the Law of One raw describes the negative polarity. So there's two polarities, right? Positive and negative, light and dark. There's only these two paths, the path of unity, Consciousness or Separation Consciousness. And every soul has to choose positive or negative polarity. So Ra describes how the negative polarity works, what their philosophy is like, how they purvey their philosophy. And one of the things that ra says is that the negative polarity will always adorn itself with lots of exterior beauty. They ask raw, what does a negative, you know, fourth or fifth density being look like? And they say, Oh, they are very physically beautiful in appearance to look at. And that makes perfect sense, right? The devil would obviously want to use Beauty to Lure people in. So that's one of those hallmarks of the negative polarity, is that it will always make itself look outwardly attractive. And so this is what Jesus condemned, right? He condemned the Pharisees who were robbing people for animal sacrifices. He called them whitewashed tombs. He says, You are like whitewashed tombs, because on the outside you're painted and adorned with all this beautiful painting, but on the inside you're full of dead man's bones. So he's like, look at you with your pointy hats and your long robes. He was a troublemaker man, and that amazing analogy, yes, on the outside, everyone looks at you and says, Oh, you're so beautifully adorned with these pointy hats and robes. On the inside, you have nothing to offer them but dead man's bones.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:30
So Hollywood is what you're saying. I'm joking.

Aaron Abke 1:38:32
The Vatican is what I'm saying. Is that not the perfect description of the Vatican. It's like, because the actual, and this is not to like, bash on Catholicism. I have the same critiques of Catholicism as I do with Christianity. There's gold in every religion, so I'm not like trying to bash any religion here.

Alex Ferrari 1:38:52
Okay, really quickly, though, when you say Catholic the Catholicism and Christianity are two different things. What's the main separation between those two, because I know there's multiple sects, Lutheran and, yeah, I mean, you know, there's different flavors, and everyone says that they're right, which is hilarious to me. But what's the major difference? Is it the dogma? Is it the saints? Is it the pump, the way that they do the celebrate? What is the differences?

Aaron Abke 1:39:17
It's they're both polyanity. They're they both follow Paul, not Jesus. But the difference is that Catholics really revere Mary as being a holy person, the Virgin Mary, and they worship and pray to the Virgin Mary, which Christians say is ludicrous and blasphemy. The other big difference is the communion ritual that I believe in Catholicism, like the only way to actually accept Jesus is to take the communion, yeah? Like, on the last Yeah. So that's the main difference, other than that, their lockstep with their belief system.

Alex Ferrari 1:39:48
So those are the two. That's just the two major issues, really, yeah, between the two. So in Christianity, though, Mother Mary is not like, I mean, not like she's a god, but like

Aaron Abke 1:39:58
She's not a saint. In Christianity, really, yeah, they believe she was a virgin, right? But that's about it. They don't really talk about Mary outside of that. And the Catholics are really, like, Yo, Mary was just below Jesus, you know/

Alex Ferrari 1:40:10
Really, yeah, and then Mary Magdalene this night, they'll go down that road, yeah,

Aaron Abke 1:40:14
She was a hooker for

Alex Ferrari 1:40:15
She was just a hooker that hung out with Jesus. Yeah. Okay, so you're saying,

Aaron Abke 1:40:21
So look at that, right? The Vatican, as we said, is just adorned with beauty and mesmerizing art and gold. It's, it's over the top, oh, because they're compensating for a inner spiritual emptiness that there's not actually a spiritual philosophy of substance behind it, in fact, behind it is nothing but a fear based doctrine that's to entrap you into it. Of Hey, you don't want to go to hell, do you? No, no, of course not. You really are afraid of hell, aren't you? Oh, yes, I don't want to go there. All you have to do is confess Jesus and follow our religion. Okay, whatever you say. And it gives the P it gives the ego certainty for its fear of death. But again, that's not the gospel Jesus preached. Jesus never told anyone he was going to die for their sins, to confess Him as Lord, that He was God, on and on and on. This is all Paul's idea which again, he never met Jesus, and the disciples condemned Paul for saying those things. So in the Vatican, you have a perfect depiction of the negative polarity, unfortunately, which is that they pull people in with this incredible, flamboyant show of art and outward beauty and riches and luxury. But didn't Jesus condemn rich people for those things and say, Hey, if you want to be my disciple, sell all those riches to the poor, and then that'll prove to me you might be serious here. So how could, how would Jesus have possibly approved of building a Vatican, a Epicenter like this worth billions and billions and billions of dollars, trillions, when you could end world hunger for that much money over and over again. I mean, Jesus would have absolutely walked into the Vatican and tore his shirt in half and flipped the tables over and condemned everything about it, if he was doing it to the Temple of his day, which was nowhere near as elaborate as the Vatican. No, of course not. Think about how enraged he would have been to walk in and see statues of him surrounded in Gold.

Alex Ferrari 1:42:15
Well, and he's in they're all downers, like his images are not happy, right? Every time. That was the other problem I had with Catholicism. Every single church I walked into like man, he is just tore up. He's always on the cross. He's always on the cross. I'm like, that's why I always, anytime I promote an image of Yeshua, I always smiling. I try or meditating, or meditating exactly something like that, because how he lived, how he lived, as opposed to how he died, or died, depending how you look at it. When you were talking about the riches and the truth, the movie Indiana Jones and Last Crusade came to mind. Did you see that movie? The newest one? No, no, that was the third one. Oh, yeah, years ago, yeah, I've seen them all. Yeah, the holy grail one, yeah. So when they were in that chamber with the Knights Templar protecting it, choose the cup of Christ. That's right, and the bad guy picks, sorry. Spoiler alert, came out in like 90 you're like 3089 it came out 89 Okay, sorry. So sorry. 35 years ago exactly. So he went, and the bad guy goes and grabs the most ordained, golden, diamond encrusted thing, and he drinks it, and it dies. He melts, right? He melted. He didn't know that's the first one. Oh, he explodes. It was even better. It's amazing. He ages very quickly and explodes. Oh, that's the melting one. Was the Ark of the Covenant. You're gonna get old really fast and then blow up. And exact but pretty much exactly, but pretty much, pretty much worst way to go. Then Indy went and grabbed the simplest, basic cup of, like, 100 cups, which is made of wood. He's like, the cup of a carpenter, a son of a carpenter. Yeah? Basic, simple, because that's all it was supposed to be. Yeah. He obviously survived, yeah, by making that choice. But that's what people don't understand. Like if you look at what Christ did when he walked the earth, he was he was not talking about gold. It's not talking about needing to follow, needing him in order to get to God. He was telling you, you are him. It's within you. You have a direct connection. You don't need all this other pump prompt and circumstance that, yeah, that the that the other churches have, anytime you have someone, and I'm gonna say this out loud, anytime you have a entity or a person that says, if you need to reach God, yeah, you need to go through me as the middleman. Run, yep. Run, yep, because it's always within you. You might have guidance. These Yogi's, these these avatars had disciples, and that's a there's a difference between following a disciple of following a mass. Church, right, learning from a spiritual master, which there are many who are working the earth today and thinking that they are the only way to source. You could be learning lessons. They could be evolving you. The goal of a master, spiritual master is to help you evolve past where they are or to reach where they are. That's the goal of a real teacher, yep, not to hold you down, to make you outsource, to make you outsource your power. And with all the information that's floating around there, and now I mean these conversations, I mean you and I have said this show, burnt at the stake, absolutely burned at the stake for this conversation like you and I would have never met. Would have never made it out there. We would have just been shot and killed right away. Oh, yeah, or hunger crucified just by having these kind of conversations. But there's so much more information out there now, yeah, that people are awakening. They're waking up. They're like, This thing doesn't make any sense. But I but I want to connect. I want to find peace, I want to be good. And there's so much information out there. Do you think that now? Well, first of all, what do you think is going to happen in the next 10 years, in the next 50 years, you know, you and I hopefully will be around in the next 50 years, this is gonna be a hell of a run. Yeah, these next next 10 to 30 years is gonna be one hell of a ride.

Aaron Abke 1:46:27
And it already is, right,

Alex Ferrari 1:46:29
I think it started pretty much about 2020 this decade on

Aaron Abke 1:46:32
We are on a the roller coaster.

Alex Ferrari 1:46:34
2020 hit started off with, started off hot,

Aaron Abke 1:46:37
Keep this off strong.

Alex Ferrari 1:46:38
Yeah, and it's been, it's been a roller coaster, really, ever since. Yeah, so what? What do you see in your from your perspective?

Aaron Abke 1:46:48
We know they're like you said, there's so much information coming out now that we just haven't had the luxury. I mean, the people I'm studying to learn these things, the scholars like Dr James Tabor, Robert Eisenman, Michael wise, John, Shelby, Spong, Robin, faith, Walsh, I could go on and on. All of these scholars have only come out, teaching these things, giving this information to the world in the last like 10 years. You know, this is brand new stuff that look I read. I'm going to read a passage to you real quick, because I read this as a Christian, and Christians read over these things, like in Paul's writings all the time, and they just kind of, when you read it, you're like, Well, that can't possibly mean what I think it means. So it must mean something else. And that's like all of the times where Paul is just condemning the 12 disciples, calling them hypocrites, deceitful workers, messengers of Satan, false apostles, so called apostles. He just, there's a litany of insults he he puts the apostles through. And only a few times does he say, like James, Peter and John, those so called apostles, what they are, means nothing to me. James chapter or Galatians chapter two, only a few times he names them by name. The other times he says, you know these so called apostles. So Christians read this, and they go, Oh, Paul must have been talking about some fakers out there, some other guys who are pretending to be Jesus's disciples. Good for you, Paul. Go call those guys out. And it's like, well, what if he's actually talking about Jesus's 12 hand selected disciples? And when you read the text themselves with the you understand the history and the languaging. You're like there is no doubt he is talking about Jesus's disciples. So you have Second Corinthians, 1113, listen to this. He goes on to say, For I am not less than the most eminent of apostles. Who are the most eminent apostles, James, Peter and John, right? And he says, for such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore, it's not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. And he's talking about James, Peter and John. Where's this second Corinthians, 1113, so you read that, and you go, what do I do with that? Right? So this is the decision that is going to be forced upon the Christian world, starting now and in the future is that as more people learn about this from all these amazing scholars and writers, and the next book I'm working on is on this very topic. It's coming to the surface of the collective consciousness, and it's going to force a decision to be made of Who do you believe had the real gospel of Jesus? And all before we close, I'll go over Jesus's actual gospel. It's a three step gospel, very simple. You got to choose Jesus or Paul and I think what we're going to have, and this is just my prediction, but maybe 30 years from now, maybe longer, maybe less, there's going to be a bifurcation in Christianity between Pauline Christians and non Pauline Christians, just as. Denomination eventually branches off, because there'll be some kind of disagreement on a theology and black Marian communion, yeah, the Western Baptist go here, and the Southern Baptists go there, and they keep splitting off. And that's why there's 30,000 denominations. Well, there's going to be a big bifurcating like that, where there's going to be Christians that still believe and practice and follow the teachings of Paul, which is all about fears. I call it the gospel of cheap grace or easy believe. ISM, you know, just believe in Jesus. That's all you have to do.

Alex Ferrari 1:50:30
I'm sensing a tone.

Aaron Abke 1:50:32
Yeah, there's a certain tone there.

Alex Ferrari 1:50:34
Atoning your voice, sir.

Aaron Abke 1:50:35
Yeah. It's like the gospel of cheap grace versus Jesus's gospel, which you could call the gospel of repentance. Jesus and John the Baptist called it the gospel of repentance for the remission of sins, meaning when you repent, Jesus said, Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, meaning it's here now. So that means, the moment you repent, you are in the kingdom. There's no intermediary step of repent and then confess Me as Lord and Savior, and then you're in the kingdom. Oh, and I need some money, and then give me some and make me big, elaborate Vatican temples. Exactly, it's just repent for the Kingdom of Heavens at hand. So the moment you turn from your sins and turn your heart towards God, you're in the kingdom, right? That's the first step of Jesus's gospel, repentance. The next step is obedience, which over and over and over again, Jesus said, You want to eternal life, obey the commandments. You want to be my disciple. Obey my commandments, and you're not my disciple if you don't obey my commandments. So it's repent to enter the kingdom, obey to stay in the kingdom. And then the third part of his gospel was service to others. Just like in the Law of One it was serve my people. You know the famous passage in John 21 Peter, do you love me? Yes, Lord, more than anything, Feed my sheep. Jesus said, so it's repentance, obedience and service. That's Jesus's gospel, repentance to enter the kingdom, obedience to stay in the kingdom, and service to increase in the kingdom. Now, obedience, in what sense, obeying the laws of God, which is the Law of One? Right? When Jesus was asked, What is the greatest law, Jesus said it is one Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, because loving your neighbor as yourself is loving. Is how you show that you love God. Because Jesus said, Don't say you love me when you don't love my people, because I never knew you as it goes with God, right? You can't say I love God and hurt your neighbor and harm other people. You demonstrate your love for God and demonstrating it's the only thing that matters, right? Faith without works is dead. It does not matter what you say. You can say all day long. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Yes, I'm saved and I'm forgiven. But if you go on lying and cheating and stealing and harming people and living selfishly, Jesus says, I don't know who you are. I don't care if you confess me as your Lord, it means nothing to me. Well, yeah, that would do what I say. He said

Alex Ferrari 1:53:04
That was the problem I had with the whole in the Catholic religion, in the sense of the whole confessional thing, right? Like, so I'm like, okay, so I can go kill somebody, come in, do a couple of mirrors. I'm solid. Like, that doesn't make sense, you know? And also, if I eat meat on Fridays, I also go to the same place, right? Like, there's, there's, like, one first grader figured this out. Yeah, I'm a first grader. Second grader walking around going, Wow, man. And we would joke the kid, like, my friends, my school friends, were like, All right, get it all in now, because we're going to confession in a minute. Get your sin out. Get your sin out now, because we're gonna go get this cleaned up in a minute, you have your fun. Now. It's, it's hilarious. You mentioned Peter, and Peter's a very interesting character, because when I went to the Vatican, I went into the into the catacombs of the Vatican. I was open that day, and I saw the resting place of Peter, hence, St Peter's facility. Yeah, it was, it was, I don't, if you haven't been there, no, I haven't. So when you go down, you just see, you know, just giant stone sarcophagus, yeah, of you know, like, oh, there's Pope from 1300 in this, you know, there's that Pope and, oh, there's Pope John Paul. Okay, I know that one, you know. And there's and there's the other one and and then you turn a corner, it's all white. It's a lot it's all white, so it's not a lot of color interesting. And I turn a color, I turn a corner, and I look, and there's this room, full color, full adornments, just tons of artwork inside. And it's closed off by a glass door, and they said no picture. So there was no pictures allowed down there. Oh, wow, so I couldn't take any pictures down there. I respected that, but I looked over and I'm like, what? Who's in that room? And it then I read, I was like,

Aaron Abke 1:54:53
It must be James, right?

Alex Ferrari 1:54:54
No, it's Peter. It's Peter's it's Peter's resting spot. And you know, it's kind of like you. Uh, you know, believe or don't believe, like, but, you know, we kind of understood like, oh, that's one of the apostles. Like, oh, there was such revenance there. Yeah, even, even with everything we've said, there was something there that I felt in that in that room, and I felt when I was in that room, and I looked over, I was like, there was just, like this weight of like, oh, oh, this is what's, I mean, wow. What is from my understanding, Peter and St Peter's Basilica. There is some drama there. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Aaron Abke 1:55:34
Well, I mean, when you go there, you're gonna see two massive statues right on the right, you're going to see a massive statue of, you guessed it, the Apostle Paul. On the left, you're going to see a statue of Saint Peter. And this was one of the big rewrites of the Roman Catholic Church. Was they tried to paint Peter and Paul as buddies. There's even this crazy legend that they died together under Nero. A lot of Christians believe this. There's zero historical proof for that. There's actually no historical proof that Paul even died in Rome. We have a letter to the Romans where he's saying, I'm trying to go to Rome. Please sponsor me to come teach you my gospel. But there's no record of him actually being there or being killed by Nero there. There's a lot more evidence that he went to Spain and died in Spain. So anyway, they're trying to make it look like Peter and Paul were buddies, when in fact, they were mortal enemies. And in the early Nazarene text, this is well documented in the clementine recognitions. The name of Paul has been ironically changed by a third century translator named rufinus, who very much bragged that he gladly and willingly edited all the documents he translated from the Nazarenes and early first century Christians. He changed them to fit the Catholic narrative because he was trying to dispel the heresies he says. So he changed Saul's name to Simon, Simon magus, but when you read it, it's Peter. And this guy, Simon magus, having all these debates. And Peter's traveling around wherever Paul, who it really is, is going, and trying to debate him in public to show the fallacy of his gospel. And this guy, Simon magus, is bragging that Jesus appeared to me just like Paul does in the New Testament. Who are you? Just because you walked with Jesus, you think you know him better than me. I speak to him every day. He appears to me all the time.

Alex Ferrari 1:57:28
So Paul, please excuse my ignorance. Paul was not an apostle. No, he was not

Aaron Abke 1:57:34
Paul's the only person who ever called himself an apostle. Nobody else calls Paul an apostle but himself. He gave himself the title.

Alex Ferrari 1:57:41
So then, why did he have some why? So if Paul was never an apostle, Peter was yes, and actually walked with the man. Hung out, you know, hung out with Jesus. Why did anyone give any credence to what Paul said?

Aaron Abke 1:57:57
Because of the Roman Catholic Church brother,

Alex Ferrari 1:57:59
It just was like he's a good writer,

Aaron Abke 1:58:01
So the history is really dense, but the summary is that Rome was extremely anti semitic, despised, loathed the Jews, they were just an absolute thorn in Rome's side more than Christian for hundreds of years. No, before Christianity, okay, like leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem Jerome Eusebius and Josephus all credit the uprising that caused the fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad to the death of James, because James, the just was so revered in Jerusalem by everybody that when he was killed, they just revolted and rioted against the Herodian priests and all that Rome had to come in to try to squash it. Huge. War breaks out. They destroy the temple in 70 ad, all because of the death of James. They said so like when you go to the Vatican the St Peter's Basilica, there's no statue of James anywhere. He's been edited out of early church Christian history. And if you ask most Christians who was Jesus's appointed successor, who led Jesus's church. They say, Paul, well, they're all going to say, Peter, okay, Peter on this rock, I will build my church, sure. And then Paul came later, and, you know, tidied up Peter's gospel a bit. But it wasn't Peter. It was James. This is in the Gospel of Thomas. This is in all the historians I mentioned, well documented. It's even in the book of Acts, right? And so, why is James nowhere to be seen. Why is James's death which caused the destruction of the Second Temple? I mean, this is a scandalous This isn't mentioned in the book of Acts, because it's clearly a Roman Catholic rewrite of first century history. And the most notable Nazarene historian, by the way, his name is hegesypus, or hegesippus. He was a Nazarene just one generation after the disciples. He wrote a five volume history of the early Nazarene church, from Jesus's crucifixion to his present day in about 180 170 ad, a five volume set of the history that Rome burned and erased because they don't want, they don't want the real history getting out. But Eusebius quotes a huge segment of his fifth book. Hegepis, fifth book on the death of James and how it caused the fall of Jerusalem. So the fact that James is nowhere to be seen, never mentioned in Christian church. Nowhere in the Vatican is this clear rewrite of we got to get James out of the picture, because he was the actual appointed successor of Jesus, and Paul was not. Paul was mortal enemies with James and with Peter, and they had to rewrite that. So acts, the book of Acts, is one attempt of them to do that, to try to harmonize this Great Schism. And they make Peter and Paul to be kind of friends. But what's funny is, in Galatians chapter two, it's it's obvious that they weren't friends because Paul brags about opposing Peter to his face in front of all the Jerusalem apostles. He says, I walked in and I saw James eating with Gentiles. And here's this guy, Peter, this hypocrite, Peter, he calls him. He's trying to tell the Gentiles they need to live like Jews. And yet he's eating with Gentiles. So he says, I opposed Peter to his face, and I said, You hypocrite. You're trying to get these Gentiles to live like Jews, and you're not even living like a Jew. And then the James shows up, and all the apostles show up, and he calls them all hypocrites, and Paul's bragging about this in the book of Galatians. So like this, idea that Peter and Paul were friends is totally not biblical, but it's most people aren't going to look this deep into the history. They're just going to say, oh, you know, the Vatican tells me the Catholic Church tells me that Peter was the appointed successor, and Paul and Peter were buddies, so that's what's true.

Alex Ferrari 2:01:32
But, like, but my question is, again, I know the Roman Catholic Church, I guess, gave Paul the power, but like, what street cred did he have? I mean, Peter walked with Jesus, right? Paul had no street cred. So is he just a snake oil salesman, essentially the original snake oil sales. I mean, he's originally, he's like, Oh, I like this situation. Let me, let me insert myself in this. Yeah.

Aaron Abke 2:01:55
I mean, so Paul is a very complex figure, right? And I say all these criticisms of Paul and like, I have to always make it clear, like, I don't have something against Paul in particular.

Alex Ferrari 2:02:07
He doesn't owe you money.

Aaron Abke 2:02:07
Yeah, like Paul, I there's a lot of things I admire about Paul. He was very courageous and bold. I think he was well meaning. I don't think he was trying to be deceptive, or I don't think he was knowingly trying to distort the gospel of Jesus. I think I believe, just like the Ebionites did, James and the apostles, I believe he was deceived by an evil spirit. Because even Paul says he was in the New Testament, He says, There is a thorn in my flesh given to me by God, a messenger of Satan sent to torment me. And he says, I've pleaded with God three times to have this messenger of Satan be removed from me, and each time God says My grace is sufficient for you trust me. And so Paul's like God is sending me this messenger of Satan to strengthen my humility, to make sure I don't get too prideful. So you're like even Paul says he was being tormented by a messenger of Satan when he has his conversion experience on the road to Damascus, he doesn't say he sees Jesus. He never says he saw Jesus in the flesh. He says, I saw a great light and heard a voice.

Alex Ferrari 2:03:14
So he sounds very much like a televangelist.

Aaron Abke 2:03:17
Yes, sort of like that, and like a very like. It's kind of funny, because psychiatrists or psychologists will often study Paul in his writings, because Paul is like, like the perfect narcissist, like the quintessential definition, right? When you read his his writings in the epistles, like, he talks about himself non stop, and that's actually one of the ways scholars know which of those epistles Paul didn't write, but his disciples wrote in his name later, is that the seven epistles of Paul, he uses the first personal pronouns of I, me and mine, like 1800 times like the next closest book is Hebrews, and he only uses first personal pronouns, like 3% of the time. And in his other gospels, it's like, it's like 80% of his sentences have a first personal pronoun in it. So that's one of the ways they know this was written by Paul because he could not stop talking about himself, but he would, he would very Jesus, like I know, right? And calling it my gospel, and saying that the 12 hand selected disciples of Jesus are hypocrites. Man, it's pretty narcissistic, don't you think?

Alex Ferrari 2:04:27
I think absolutely, but I gotta ask Aaron, though, so in the grand scheme of humanity, okay, and in this little space of you know, Yeshua and Jesus's teachings and things like that. And by the way, what's happening here the telenovela that is this. It's absolutely a telenovela, for sure, someone slapped somebody, I'm sure, one point or another, no doubt. And this has happened in every major religion, every major there's always these stories. There's always that. Why? Do you believe that in the in the awakening of humanity's consciousness, that these kind of roadblocks are thrown in front of humanity? Because if, let's say, yeshua's teachings go unclean, clean as perfect as they can be early on, Buddha's teachings are the same, and Daoism, a ton of them, whatever they whatever it is, all are more pure and not corrupted by by man. And you know, the characters like Paul come in and kind of like, Let me insert myself and do all this kind of stuff, or the Roman Catholic Church in general. What do you think that we needed to go through all of that to get to where we are right now.

Aaron Abke 2:05:44
Yeah, well, you know, Jesus said, My sheep know my voice, and he said the voice of another, they will not follow. And so if Jesus's true sheep followers recognize his voice, that's the catalyst that the universe, God, source, I think, has given humanity since Jesus was hey, we gave you a true master, a truly enlightened being who came and had real teachings that have been documented. And just like, like you said, every single religion, every single holy person who's ever visited this planet, their teachings are always corrupted over time by the ego of man who's who's much lower level of spiritual intelligence can't really compute exactly what this master was trying to say, and so we dumb it down to our level of Okay, so in my mind, God is angry, full of guilt towards me and judgment. So like because you are, that must because I am, so that must be what God's like. And so God has to kill something to atone for my sins, and we make it this ego driven message that has really nothing to do with anything Jesus taught. And so the catalyst is, do you really recognize the voice of Jesus? And this is why I said earlier, that something I noticed was that everyone who had ever seen leave the Christian faith, including myself, did so because of Paul's teachings, not Jesus's teachings. In fact, one of my first YouTube videos is titled, why I left Christianity for Jesus. Because I'm like, I gotta be true to the Jesus that I know in my heart and that I believe I see in those red letters, and he is not about any of this business you guys are talking about. I don't know who this Jesus is, right? And when I began YouTube, I was making videos the series is called moving backwards, still on my channel to help questioning Christians find satisfying answers to these questions of like biblical inerrancy, hell, the rapture, what was Jesus's real message? And it's because I noticed this great exodus is happening from Orthodox Christianity. And 2020, really sparked a kind of Renaissance for Christianity, which had been dying off very fast for the last couple of decades, at least, just church numbers dwindling by the year. And I mean, my first church job, I was hired at a church that was all kind of elderly people, and they were looking at in in, put in some youth in their church to liven things back up, because they're like, no young people want to come here because there's nobody young here, so let's hire a young worship pastor. He'll attract younger people. And this is a every church I interviewed at was in that exact spot. We have no young people in 20 years. Our entire congregation will be dead and we'll be wiped out. So we want to keep this thing going. We got to get the youth in here. And I'm like, the youth don't want to be here. They don't resonate with this, and it's because there's this great awakening happening. And so I think the gospel of Jesus, due to these teachings coming to light with the internet and the age of social media, the truth always comes to light eventually, you know, and now that it's coming to light, it's giving those questioning Christians who said, I don't vibe with this polyanity that I'm hearing taught anymore. I want the gospel of Jesus. I want Jesus's words only. Let's cut Paul out of the equation. What did Jesus say about salvation? And it's very different than what Paul said, and that is finally becoming like the what's the word I want to use, the fulfillment of that catalyst, I think, that God put on planet Earth is, hey, this message of this master is going to be highly corrupted. There's going to be very few people, for a long time, who figure this out, and who follow their intuition and say, This doesn't feel like the gospel of Jesus. And now there's more and more and more people like this, including myself. This is something that I'm very passionate about teaching, because, again, I believe the words of a true master deserve to be heard for what they were, and so uncorrupting them is our first order of business, and I think humanity is just now really beginning to do that these teachings are flooding over the inner. At now, and it's harder and harder for Christians to avoid and dodge them. So it's going to put more and more people Christians in that position of Who do I really want to follow? And almost every Christian I've ever known, they're beautiful people who are so well meaning. I've known very few Christians who I would say were, like, intentionally insidious and deceptive and not really Christian. Oh, you know, most Christians, their hearts are so devout they want to follow Jesus. They love God, but they've been indoctrinated with polyanity and don't understand the real teachings of their master. And to me, those millions, billions, even of devout Christians deserve to know the truth, and not all of them will want to hear it. Of course, not all of them will accept it, but those who will, there's more and more of them by the day, and I see this with my own following, like we'll get them in the comments on this video on YouTube, there's so many people that are like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for spelling this out for me, because my intuition always felt off about this Christian doctrine, but it's all I knew. I was born in it. I don't know any other way of seeing it. I'm not a scholar, you know. And we need people to spell this out for those kind of questioning Christians in a way that they can sink their teeth into and say, that resonates, and that is the true gospel of Jesus that now I'm gonna follow that gospel. I think that's a worthwhile thing to do.

Alex Ferrari 2:11:23
Now. We could keep going for another eight hours,

Aaron Abke 2:11:27
Easily, easily.

Alex Ferrari 2:11:29
But I'm gonna ask you a few questions I asked you back in our last interview, and we'll see if they've changed any. What is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Aaron Abke 2:11:37
I mean, I would. I could simplify it down to living in total obedience to God's will. An easier way of saying that would be living a life of service. You know, I've had a lot of worldly fulfillment, maybe not as much as some people, but I've done the drugs, you know, I've had the partying phase and all of that. And I've found nothing in the world that's truly fulfilling, but the fulfillment of being of service to people, to helping people, blessing people, living a life of what I call heart based consciousness, where everybody you see, you feel genuine love for them, like that is to me, with the will of God for everybody. And when you're living from the heart, there's just an indescribable amount of fulfillment every day when you know like I'm just living in alignment with the way God intended me to live, a heart full of love, openness, peace of mind, loving God's creation, loving God's universe, not judging people. That, to me, is the only real fulfillment.

Alex Ferrari 2:12:36
If you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Aaron, what advice would you give him?

Aaron Abke 2:12:40
Keep going, buddy, you're on the right track. Follow your intuition.

Alex Ferrari 2:12:45
How do you define God or Source?

Aaron Abke 2:12:47
I love this question because the answer does change a bit. Right now, I would say, if you ask me, who is God the most accurate answer for me would probably be devastating, bliss, something like that.

Alex Ferrari 2:13:09
That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Aaron Abke 2:13:11
Love, for sure.

Alex Ferrari 2:13:12
Now, what is love?

Aaron Abke 2:13:14
Love is the awareness of oneness.

Alex Ferrari 2:13:17
That's good answer, yeah, that's a very good answer.

Aaron Abke 2:13:19
Love is the awareness of shared being. You know, like to see the light in something else, someone else. That's what love is,

Alex Ferrari 2:13:27
And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Aaron Abke 2:13:29
To know God.

Alex Ferrari 2:13:31
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Aaron Abke 2:13:35
So as of the time of this recording, my I have a I have the master class I mentioned on this topic, which I'm going to go super deep into the biblical exegesis, and I'm going to take people down the rabbit hole man on this whole subject, with all the proofs. So if you're interested in that, maybe we'll put the link in the show notes or searching that'll be available. It'll be $33 to purchase. It's probably going to be like a four hour masterclass. It's a huge subject, as you can see from today, so we'll make that available for the audience. If they want to go deeper on this subject. Other than that, you can find me at pretty much at Aaron abke anywhere, Instagram, YouTube, aaronabke.com same place.

Alex Ferrari 2:14:16
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Aaron Abke 2:14:19
Thank you for watching. Thank you for being interested in this subject. And if you are somebody who really resonated with this, because maybe you grew up Christian or religious, and you're like, wow, these, these are the answers I've been looking for, I would just encourage you to continue seeking that feeling of what really resonates with me about who Jesus is. I've been taught a lot of things, surely not all of them are true. So let me rely upon what Jesus said was the only truth within you, the Holy Spirit, which is the messenger, the helper. Let me continue to follow this inspiration I feel to learn more about. The real Gospel of Jesus, because I'm telling you, it's so much more beautiful than Christianity has given it credit for. It's so much more powerful, and it's so much simpler. It's so easily livable. To just understand God wants us to live with a repentant heart of I don't want to do any harm, I don't want to do wrong. I want to do what's right, to have that repentant heart. Living in obedience and loving your neighbor as yourself is the way of salvation. And you talk about, you know, what is fulfillment I can promise everybody, listening, living that gospel is the highest fulfillment. And the reason you resonate with this conversation we're having is because your heart knows that already and wants to follow that message so so keep pursuing it.

Alex Ferrari 2:15:47
Brother, I appreciate you and everything you doing to awaken the planet, my friend, thank you again, so much for coming down, and I can't wait for our next conversation.

Aaron Abke 2:15:53
Likewise, brother, thank you for having me.