Alex Ferrari 0:00
You took this to another level, where you're now hooking them up to machines, checking their brains, seeing what's happening.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 0:06
I didn't set out and say, hey, you know what I want to measure psych the brains of psychic mediums. That's what I want to do. It didn't really happen that way. She channels these South American tribal languages. That's a whole other story. And so I've just kind of like been saying yes, and one thing leads to another, and now here I am, 12 years later, and now it's a significant portion of my work. And there was a couple of lines that just started going nuts. You know, a couple of these squiggly lines, they were just out of control. I double, triple, quadruple, check that nothing's wrong. The signal is great. Where is this coming from? It was coming from the right parietal lobe, which, you know, is one of the areas that sometimes gets identified as a god spot.

Alex Ferrari 0:51
As a doctor, as a scientist, as as a researcher, is this stuff real man?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 0:57
I didn't even know about that part of the brain. Didn't know about the God spot, until I saw this weird pattern and started doing research, because I'm like, What is going on here?

Alex Ferrari 1:21
Now, before we jump into this episode, if this conversation resonates with you, please like subscribe and share this with whoever you feel that needs to hear it. Your support helps us keep bringing this information out into the world and helps us awaken this planet. Thank you. I like to welcome the show Dr. Jeff Tarrant, how you doing Jeff?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:43
Good, good. How are you doing?

Alex Ferrari 1:44
I'm doing very good, my friend. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm super, super soaked man to talk to you because we've only had, I think, one or one or two other people ever on the show. We're closing in on 600 episodes at this point that they've spoken about the psi phenomenon, or psychic phenomenon, from a scientific back, like a scientific backing. You know, we talk a lot about the woo on the show, and we know we've spoken to a lot of psychic mediums, a lot of channelers, and we dig deep into their processes and how it happened, what, what the technical stuff that's going on in their brain is. But you took this to another level, where you're not hooking them up to machines, checking their brain, seeing what's happening. And I've seen that done with a channeler, a very famous Channeler by the name of Darryl Anka. He they hooked his brain up while he was channeling, and what he was able to do was pretty insane, like the scientists had no explanation for what what he was doing. But I haven't, I haven't spoken anyone who's done it with a psychic medium when they're doing their thing. So before we jump into this, I mean, I'm so excited before we could jump into this lovely field of discussion. What made you start doing this insane work, man? Because I gotta believe that, as a doctor, your fellow doctors going, Oh, cool. Man, that's so awesome. I assume that's not the way it went for you.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 3:15
You know. I mean, I've always been a little bit, uh, kind of on the fringe of my field anyway. So I think anybody that knows me professionally or otherwise, probably wasn't super surprised. You know, it's like, oh, that's Jeff. You know, doing, doing Jeff. So, you know, whatever. But you know, honestly, I did not get into this, really, with much intention. So I didn't set out and say, hey, you know what I want to measure psych, the brains of psychic mediums. That's what I want to do. It didn't really happen that way. It it happened more that an opportunity presented itself. I was doing other research, and, you know, neurofeedback, clinically and things like that. And actually it was a student of mine when I was working at the University of Missouri, who, you know, said, Hey, my mom's a psychic medium. She channels these South American tribal languages. That's a whole nother story. Do you want to measure her brain? And I was like, Sure, yeah, that's how I wouldn't you, yeah, wouldn't I? Exactly and, and honestly, you know, I jokingly say that it's her fault that I'm or maybe it's his fault that I'm doing this. Because, you know, if they hadn't have suggested that I would have never stepped into this. And then, literally, she started introducing me to other psychic mediums. She was involved in the Forever Family Foundation, which I'm sure you're familiar with. And so, you know, just I really didn't know what I was doing. I was just kind of stumbling into this and saying yes. You know, every opportunity came up, like, Yeah, let's Yeah, let's do that. And so I've just kind of like been saying yes, and one thing leads to another. And now here I am, 12 years later, and now it's a significant portion. Know, my work so, you know, go figure,

Alex Ferrari 5:02
That's amazing. So how many, how many psychic mediums have you put under, you know, like, followed their like, what would that? What's the term? Exactly like, you hook them up to a computer and check their brainwaves. What's the actual term for that?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 5:16
Yeah, so it's a quantitative EEG. It's kind of the official term of kind of what we're doing. There's other things going on, but that's kind of the basic idea, you know. So we're getting an EEG reading the electrical signals of the brain, but then we're quantifying it. So rather than just looking at the squiggle lines, we can essentially transform all of that into numbers so that we can see, well, how much of each type of brain wave is happening in each region. How does that change when they're doing different things? So that's the quantitative part, putting numbers on, you know, on this data. And so what was the original part of the question?

Alex Ferrari 5:55
So, like, so, all right, so how many, how many mediums? And did you? Did you also do channelers as well, or just psychic mediums.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 6:02
So it's interesting, because I certainly started off just with psychic mediums, and really, all of the ones that I was working with initially were those that had been certified through the Forever Family Foundation. And so I got,

Alex Ferrari 6:16
Can you, can you explain what the Forever Family Foundation is for people?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 6:20
Yeah, it's a nonprofit organization that I think they've been around maybe 25 years or so, and they started off, and they still are an organization to help grieving people kind of work through their process by helping them connect to mediums that have been sort of vetted. And so what they did eventually was create a certification process for these mediums, which is quite rigorous, and, you know, where they have to do a number of readings, the sitter doesn't know them. They don't know, you know, it's like triple, quadruple, blinded, and all these kinds of, you know, scientific, controlled kinds of things, so that they can say, Well, okay, if you score significantly above, you know, what we would consider, you know, chance, and you can do it over and over again, you know, then, you know, there's sort of an evidential aspect, right? So they'd be considered an evidential medium, and they put their stamp of approval on them. And so they've been doing this for like 20 something years, and I think they've only certified like 24 people, 26 or something.

Alex Ferrari 7:28
Really, how many have they? How many have tried?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 7:32
That I don't know. That's a good question.

Alex Ferrari 7:34
I gotta imagine, over 25 years is, let's say, even if it's just 100 a year. I mean, that's a lot of people.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 7:40
It's a lot of people. And so, you know, what I like about that is, it's pretty rigorous, right? Like, it's not like everybody that signs up, gets, gets, you know, sort of this, this stamp, this certification stamp. And so, you know, the first set of of mediums that I worked with had all been through this process and passed it. And so for me, that was really fortunate, because I had this really solid group to start with. And so of that group, I've probably, I've probably brain mapped maybe six mediums that, and all of these mediums also consider themselves psychic, so they kind of do both. And I'm sure you've heard this a million times, you know, they, you know, one of the common phrases, right, is that, you know, all mediums are psychic, not all psychics are mediums,

Alex Ferrari 8:23
Correct. I was, you read my mind. That's exactly what I was about to say,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 8:27
Yeah, and, and so, you know, I had an opportunity to do both with with them. And then once I started doing this, then, of course, people started contacting me. I started meeting other people that weren't necessarily certified. But I was like, Yeah, well, yeah, let's, let's see what's going on. And so probably I've got another, I don't know, maybe 15 or 20 psychic mediums, in addition to that sort of initial batch. And how about channelers? I've got a handful of channelers, really. The one that is the most impressive. I just did some work with her last year. She's actually in Slovenia, and really impressive, really impressive Channeler, and her data was just kind of blew my mind. So it might be similar to kind of the study that you were talking about, where the scientists were like, wow, okay. Like, what do we do with this? So her data was very interesting and somewhat different than the other channelers I've looked at.

Alex Ferrari 9:27
So let me ask you, Jeff, I mean, when you started walking down this path, were you spiritual? Did you have a spiritual background? Did you have a religious background? Did Did you ever at one point go, this is just freaking weird. Or am I talking to the devil? Are these demons, like, like, you know, like, all this kind of stuff. A lot of the programming that many people walk with walk in with, what was your background and your point of view of this whole psych phenomenon?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 9:55
Yeah, you know, by the time that I that, I started actually doing this, um. Um, you know what? We'll skip all of the stuff before that. You know the different phases that I went through of being a super skeptic and whatever. By the time that I got to the point of doing this, I would say I was, I was pretty open minded to to all of it.

Alex Ferrari 10:15
You were skeptical, but you were skeptical before?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 10:19
Oh, yeah, there was a time period where I was a super skeptic. I didn't think any of this stuff was real, you know, I subscribed to Skeptic magazine and Skeptical Inquirer and, you know, you know, read James Randy's books. And, you know, I was like, Yes, this all makes sense. This is where I'm at. And, okay, you know. And then at some point, really, it was in the question about spiritual or religious? I've never really been religious, but I've definitely had my own spiritual practice, you know, focused mostly around meditation, Qigong, those kinds of practices, and so, you know, I've kind of explored various traditions, but I don't really associate myself with a specific Sure, I'll call myself anything in particular, you know,

Alex Ferrari 11:05
No isms, no isms, no, no isms. Oh, right,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 11:09
You know. And so I didn't have any of the fear factor of of any of this. In fact, you know, when I was very young, I was fascinated by all of this kind of stuff. And you know, when I think back on it, I don't even know that I believed it back then, but it was like I wanted it to be true, you know, I really wanted it to be true, you know, kind of The X Files thing, right? You know, you know, I I want to believe. I really want it. I really want this to be true. But there's a significant chunk of my brain and still, it still pops up, even after everything I've seen that's kind of like, maybe, right, you know, and I've seen some things that there's just no way to refute, but yet, there's still a part of my brain that is a little bit skeptical and and honestly, I kind of appreciate that, because I think it keeps me from also being too naive and just accepting everything. Because, you know, certainly I think there's people who are very gifted and skilled, and then, you know, there's other folks that maybe not so much and so,

Alex Ferrari 12:13
But you know what? It's just interesting, Jeff, that you know, you said that that organization only basically certified 2425 something, yeah, over the course of 25 years. So it's pretty rigorous. I don't know about you, there's, I think, more than 25 psychic mediums out there working, right? So there's also, and this is, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, my understanding from the research I've done by just talking to so many of these, of these people, is that there are variation, variations of skill and ability, kind of like a basketball player. You and I could both play basketball, but we're not. Michael Jordan, so there are, there are people who are at a higher level of ability. But maybe we, we have, like, the, you know, the B team psychic medium, who can maybe get a couple things here and there, and maybe Uncle Bob is is talking to them, and maybe one or two things come in. So they do have some sort of skill set. But then there's these others that you're just like, what is happening? Like, oh my god. I spoke to a I spoke to a psychic medium the other day, and I was absolutely blown away at how accurate, fast that was the key fast. She was just like, a Bucha. I'm like, how you don't know me? How do you know this? Like, Grandpa shows up and you're just like, what? How do you know that about my grandfather? Like, it was just like, amazing. How? But the thing was so impressive was she was, I think, 95 to 98% accurate. Wow. And the two, the five to two to 5% that are not accurate. I'm sure I'll figure out later, like, oh, that's what you meant, kind of thing. So do you agree with that analogy of like the basketball player? Like there are some who are working and are providing a service, but then there's others who are just literal superstars in the space.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 12:54
Yeah, yeah. I that's exactly the way that I kind of view this as well, that, you know, you've got the elite performers, right? You know, the people who are very consistent, very accurate, just every single time. And then, you know, there's kind of the B team, you know, where they're good, but I feel like it's spotty, right, right? Like, kind of sitting, and even sitting with them during a reading, right? You can almost feel it where it's kind of like they're they hit, they hit, they hit. And it's like, okay, I have no idea what you're talking about. Like, that,

Alex Ferrari 14:52
That's not even, I'm not going to figure that out in two days. Like, that's your you know, you're like, your brother, I'm like, I'm an only child. Right? Like, exactly your brother's, your brother died already, right? No, my brother never died because that never happened, kind of thing, you know,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 15:08
Yeah, and so, but it's interesting, because at this point, I don't when that happens. I don't look at them and say, Oh, they're making stuff up, or they're, you know, they're, they're trying to trick me, or something like that. I see it more is that maybe whatever information they're getting, they're interpreting it a certain way that, you know, the interpretation may be the problem, right? Like, where you know how they're translating the information they're getting, maybe they're, you know, the way that they kind of put their their verbal lens on it, modified it enough that it doesn't resonate anymore, or that's picking up on something else. And it's not a precise science, right? You know? I mean, so, you know. And I've talked to, you know, several mediums and seen them work where, you know, they're getting bombarded by different, you know, entities want to talk to them. And so it's like, well, you know, that's got to be difficult to sort through all of that. And so, you know, usually I just give them the benefit of the doubt, and it's like, this is a complicated process. It makes sense that you're not going to hit everything, that everything's not going to be exactly perfect. And in fact, you know, to me, that makes a lot of sense. And but, you know, I also think that kind of everybody has these abilities. And again, back to the kind of skill idea, right? That everybody can play basketball, but, you know, some people are just naturally gifted or playing an instrument or languages or whatever, you know, and so I feel like everybody has this ability, but it's like, well, how much do you need to practice, how much do you need to develop, you know, get your brain to be more flexible, whatever it's going to take in order to actually be able to access some of this, you know. And so for me, that's where a lot of the fun is. Is, is looking at people who are developing their abilities and seeing like, well, how can we facilitate that, you know, how can we, how can we help you on your path,

Alex Ferrari 15:08
When you were saying that they get bombarded. I always use this reference point, and many psychic mediums agree with me. Is the scene from ghost with Whoopi Goldberg, where she's like, literally, is, is Bob here? Bob? Okay, Bob's here. Now what kind of thing? But there's like, literally, a waiting room of spirits waiting to talk to their loved ones and to my understanding they like. When with this other one I just had recently, my grandfather showed up, and he was just, would not she was like, calm down. Stop yelling. Stop yelling. Because he was like, because I get access to so many psychic mediums that a lot of times, you know, my grandmother will come through or, you know, and they're like, Hey, listen, I have a message for you from, you know, your aunt, or something like that. And he always got left on the sideline. He's like, I'm tired of it. I want to talk. And I want, don't you dare cut me from the show, you know, like, you know, that kind of stuff. I was like, what is happening? This is amazing. So they are a little bit excitable, because they want to talk to their loved ones. And you're just, you're just basically as a medium. You're just a, basically a phone. You're You're a device to connect to them, because they can't hear any other way, and that's why they kind of bombard the poor medium. Sometimes that it's over, it's overwhelming for the unskilled, for the skilled, they could just go and they compartment. But for the ones who are younger or starting out or haven't developed as much, it's overwhelming, and they're doing the best they can. And I love what you said about the interpretation aspect of it, because when image basically it's images, most of the times this image is sometimes it's audible, and we'll kind of get into that. Most of the times is images. They're like, I see a rose, I see a rose. And like, does a rose mean anything to you? And they're like, Oh my God, my mother loved roses. She had a big rose garden out from like, okay, that's where that means, kind of thing. But the interpretation of what comes in. It's a human process, still,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 19:03
Yeah, and actually, I think that's a really important point. You know, the more that I study this, and I'm sure we'll get into this a little bit, but you know, very often we see such a differentiation in what's going on in the left hemisphere versus the right hemisphere when they're doing their work. And you know, the left hemisphere is very language oriented. For most people, that's where the vast majority of language processing happens. And so, you know, the way that I've been thinking about this is that if somebody they're getting information which is coming in, let's say, from the right hemisphere, but then they start interpreting it. They start putting, you know, language on it, trying to boil it down to something. And I think that's where we get in trouble. Sometimes right the left hemisphere gets involved, starts thinking, analyzing, trying to fit it into a box with something that makes sense, or preconceived notions, and and then we can get off track right, because it maybe is no longer. Longer the original symbol, right? So, like, if they, if they saw a rose, instead of saying, I'm getting a rose, you know, if they said, you know, is your mom's name rose, or is, or, you know,

Alex Ferrari 20:14
Your dog's name rose,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 20:17
Right! So then they put kind of an interpretation on it that may be completely off, right? And it's like, but, you know, and it's because of that left hemisphere, it's not that the information coming in is wrong, it's just that, you know, when we start doing our human thing, then we get in trouble,

Alex Ferrari 20:35
Right! And this is part of the process here at the game that we're playing here, the game of life. We are human, and there's going to be human issues. Just, you know, this hardware is fantastic, but pales in comparison to the other side. Again, one of the things I've spoken to a lot of near death experiences as well, and one of the massive, one of the common things that they say is, when they are on the other side, they have access to all knowledge instantly, and they could comprehend, like, quantum physics. Oh, that's what quantum physics is. Okay, great. And they just, they just understood it, like, how do you Oh, that's free energy. Got it, okay? But when they come back, they can't bring the information back, because this hardware is nowhere near if this is the the two meg or the 50 kilobyte floppy disk back in the day, and they're they're playing in the cloud, essentially endless information. So that information is you have access to intimate information. So the other side is almost like the processing of trying to to process that and put it out into a way that we understand. It's not easy. And I'm kind of putting this out there for people to understand about mediums that you mediums, that it's not an easy process. Would you agree?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 21:46
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I feel like, well, I not even feel, I mean, we know that a large part of the brain's job is to filter out information. It's a limit. It's a limit access to information. And, you know, I think the brain does that for obvious reasons, right? If we, if we were open to all sensory information all the time, we would be overwhelmed. We would never get anything done. So it makes sense that the brain does that. But so then it makes it really tricky, right? Because when you sort of expand outside of the limitations of the brain, which, you know, again, I think we'll see that when we talk about some of the brain patterns that we've seen, right? But when they're able to expand outside those limitations, yeah, you've got all this, this access, the Akashic records, or whatever you want to call it, or the quantum field, or you've got all of this information, but now you got to bring it back and translate it through the human brain. And, you know, it's like a bottleneck, right? It's like, okay, well, what information can you squeeze through to be able to translate? I mean, I think a similar thing happens. I don't think it's the same process, but with psychedelics, right? You know, people can be in a psychedelic state and have these very expansive understandings of time, and, you know, the way the universe works, and it makes perfect sense. But then, you know, when you come back, it's like, okay, like, you know,

Alex Ferrari 23:14
Yeah, I've spoken to a lot of people who've had that psychedelic experiences, and it for my understanding, and I'd love to hear your point of view on the what happens in the brain is that when you take a psychedelic, and it could be any, pick your pick your your not your poison, but pick your choice of pick your medicine, if you exactly but anytime You taking any sorts of psychedelics, it breaks through the facade of this reality. So this construct, the matrix, if you will, is what it is. But when you take a psychedelic, it opens you up and you see beyond the code. You see beyond what it is, and it's overwhelming. That's why they say be very careful with psychedelics, because it's so like, you were just saying the brain filter stuff out. Like, right now as I'm talking to you, I've got a screen over here flashing. I've got lights over there going, but I unless I focus on it, it's, I'm all about you right now, and it's completely taking that stuff out so I don't get overwhelmed. So when you do with psychedelics, it opens you up beyond the construct, and it can be overwhelming, but coming back into the construct, I don't think you bring back the information, but you bring back the awareness that that exists now, yeah, and that's what changes you would you agree?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 24:39
Yeah. I think that's a really great way of of putting it, you know. And you know, when you look at what's, what happens in the brain during a psychedelic state, and again, it doesn't seem to matter whether it's LSD or psilocybin or Ayahuasca or whatever, it all, pretty much does a similar thing in the brain, which is, you know, essentially, um. Or temporarily quiets down certain regions of the brain that are involved in identity, right? Like how you see yourself, how you see yourself in relation to the world. It basically shuts that off temporarily, so that all these limitations in the way that we see ourselves in the world no longer exist. So then you're just open. But, you know, as soon as the, you know, medicine wears off, then all of those controls come back online, and then, yeah, it's kind of like, oh, okay, now what? Right, you know, like, how do you you can't retain all of that because it's too big, you know, in the brain isn't going to allow it, you know. But what's interesting is, in a handful of psychic mediums, you know, I've seen a brainwave pattern when they're in their connected state that seems to mimic what you see with psychedelics, certain of the same brain structures shut down in a very similar way. And so at least for some of them, I think it might be a similar process that they're it's a way to get the ego out of the way, and the way that they've figured out how to do it kind of mimics what happens with psychedelics, where you're you're disrupting that ego process, so that I'm not the one kind of running the show, and I can just be open to whatever else is available.

Alex Ferrari 26:17
Another extent. So is meditation. Meditation does if, once you become proficient at meditation, especially some of the Masters, you do the same thing as you do with psychedelics. I love the I think it was the Maharishi who gave this quote. He's like, when you take a psychedelic, it's like taking a sledgehammer to the wall. When you meditate, it's like you're putting in a window and like, that's, I mean, so beautiful, because you both get there, just one's a little bit rougher, and one takes and one takes a little longer, too. So there's a little bit of a shortcut with psychedelics versus but you got to deal with what comes with that. Like all shortcuts in life, sometimes you gotta kind of be careful. So let's get into, let's get into the science of this. What have what have you observed when you put a psychic medium on the brainwave machine, if you will, EKG, EKG, or EG, EEG,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 27:17
QEEG.

Alex Ferrari 27:17
QEEG. So when you put them on the QEEG, what? What are you seeing? That shocked you when you the very first one you did, you're like, what is happening? And is there a difference between the psychic side and the medium side, or is that just kind of a blurred line at that point?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 27:36
You know where to start. There's so many little pieces, right? But the, you know, probably the first thing that I saw that was, you know, really stood out. So the very first medium that I studied, the one that I referenced, you know, that when I was working at the University of Missouri and, and whatever. And, you know, when I did her brain map, there was this one, you know, I was looking at the raw signal, right? Those squiggly lines. I was just looking at those. And there was a couple of lines that just started going nuts, you know, a couple of these squirrely lines. They were just out of control. And, you know, when you, if you've done this enough, you know, you look at that and go like, Oh, there's something wrong with my signal, right? Like, the signal is bad. I've got a bad connection. Something's wrong with the cap. Something's going on well, you know, I double, triple, quadruple check that nothing's wrong. The signal is great. She's not moving around, so it's not caused by some sort of artifact that would happen externally. But these giant excursions almost look like seizures, but it's only in very specific locations. And so then when I looked at, well, where is this coming from? It was coming from the right parietal lobe, which, you know, is one of the areas that sometimes gets identified as a god spot. You know, I know that's kind of like a scientist don't like that term, you know, the god spot. You know, like this idea that there's an area in the brain responsible for spirituality, but this is one of the areas that has gotten that name, because it has to do with boundaries between self and others. So when it's normally doing its job, it's essentially creating this artificial structure that says, you know, I'm Jeff. I live in this body. I'm separate from you. You live in your body. We all exist independently, right? But then if you disrupt that, that area of the brain, well, guess what? The boundaries don't exist the same anymore. So people start having more spiritual experiences and connecting to the spirit world, and they have more empathy, right? Because you're not as rigid in this kind of like structure of how you see yourself, separate from everybody else and everything else. So that was the very first, you know, thing that really jumped out at me that was like, wow, okay, this is super cool, because I didn't even know about that part of the brain. Didn't know about the God spot. It until I saw this weird pattern and started doing research, because I'm like, What is going on here? And then it made perfect sense, right? It's like, well, the way that they're able to tap in is to kind of get this part of the brain out of the way so that they have more access. And then what's happened is, since then, I've seen that a similar pattern, or, you know, an increase of really slow brainwave activity in that same region with many, many, many mediums when they're doing their mediumship work, not all of them, but at this point, I'd venture to say 75% 80% that there's some sort of abnormality in that that region so makes me think there's something to it, right,

Alex Ferrari 30:44
And that 25% that doesn't have it, do they? Were they accurate when they were doing their work? Or, like, were they accurate?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 30:51
Yeah, they were accurate. And it's just a different process, yeah, yeah. My, my current feeling is that there seems to be, you know, two or three regions in the brain that show up over and over and over and over again. And then there's other sort of like less common things that show up. And so what I suspect is that there's, there's kind of these generic ways that seem to work, that most mediums will use in some form or fashion to get there, but then some people figure out a different route, right, you know, just like there's, you know, the thing about spirituality, right? Like all roads lead to the same mountain top, kind of a thing that, you know, maybe there's, depending on how your brain is wired, maybe you have to maneuver it slightly differently than I would have to, because we have different brains, right? You know, which makes sense to me, but it's also cool that there are these certain patterns that show up very consistently. In fact, I'm not even surprised anymore. I almost expect it. When I do a reading, it's like, oh, yeah, okay, there's that right parietal lobe. Oh, there's the right frontal lobe. You know, just over and over.

Alex Ferrari 31:59
Is there? So when you when they are on, when they are going into their into their process, is there the gamma, the gamma waves and, like, are they going down to a deeper, like, a meditative place? Like, what happens with when you meditate, you go, and I don't, and I always forget, the gamma, delta, beta, all that good stuff. What is the one that's like, you should be asleep at this point, but you're not. Kind of wait, is that what happens?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 32:28
Yeah. So, you know, the slowest brain waves are like, Delta, and then theta, that's kind of the two slowest brain waves. And then, you know, there's some stuff in the middle right, alpha, beta, and then on the high end is the gamma. Gamma is the fastest brainwaves. And so what's interesting is, you know, increasing slow brainwaves, like delta and theta, does seem to be like another strategy that some of them will use to shut down that part of the brain. Because, if you know so it is kind of like that part of the brain's asleep, right? It's like, you kind of put that part of the brain to sleep while everything else is still functioning, so that it's a way to get it out of the way. But what's interesting is certain regions of the brain, the brain waves involved, are also not consistent, like especially the right frontal lobe. You know, we see that a lot, doing something interesting. But like, some mediums will increase, say, gamma in that region, and some of them will decrease gamma in that region. It's very interesting. So it's almost like, I mean, again, like maybe different different people have different ways of engaging their awareness and their attention, and it works for them, but it's just a slightly different process. So, you know, from a from a science perspective, it makes it a little bit challenging, right? Because you'd like everybody to do exactly the same thing,

Alex Ferrari 33:54
But they are, but, but, but even though they are, the different parts of the brain are work doing that, like those the two techniques that you're saying, slowing down and speeding up, they're still accurate. They're still they're still accurate of what they're doing. So it's essentially just like, I'm a left handed shooter. I'm a right handed shooter kind of thing. I mean, you're both getting it into the basket. It's just a different way of going about it.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 34:17
I think so. And, you know, and I, you know, I've been referencing the right frontal lobe. And, you know, the right frontal lobe has a lot to do with paying attention, like, how we pay attention, and so, you know, I think that's a good example of how some of those differences right, like, some people may need to, like, really zone in, you know, almost like a concentration meditation, like their whole focus, single attention focus is on whatever it is they're tuning into, and that's going to look very different than if somebody has this very wide, spacious, allowing receptive type of an attention both might work just depending on the person and how they need to get into that space.

Alex Ferrari 34:58
What's really interesting is. The calming down of the ego. It's what happens with the psychedelics on a very forceful way, meditation on a very subtle way. And now psychic mediums are doing the same thing in order to access the other side. So all the roads are going to the other side. We use the term the other side, for lack of a better term, but connecting to the quantum field, connecting to the Akashic records, connecting to loved ones or spirit guides or anybody on the other side, all roads are going to the same place, and it seems like a prerequisite to be able to access any information on that side. Does that make Does that make sense?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 35:40
Yeah, totally. And that's exactly what I think is going on, is that, you know, how you get your ego out of the way. You know varies just like so again, if we use that analogy that you know, you're kind of saying like, Oh, there's all these different methods, right, that can get you there. And even within the world of meditation, right? There's, there's 1000 different styles of meditation. But the one thing they all have in common, for the most part, there's some exceptions, but for the most part, is quieting down the ego, right? Like, pick a meditation, right? And it's like, well, you know, it could be a concentration practice, even, right, where I'm just focusing on my breath and nothing else. And it's like, well, if you're if you're just focused on something neutral, and you're not thinking about yourself, or you're quieting your ego, and that, you know, on the surface, it may look very different than something like a Zen practice or something right where you're, you know, just sitting. Just sit right. Just sit and, you know, sort of entering this kind of spacious awareness. But in both cases, the ego is getting out of the way. And so I think you're exactly right, that that seems to be the the main issue. And it's just, well, how do you get there? Like, you know what strategy works for you to get yourself, yourself, you know, small, small s self out of the way, so that you can, you know, connect into that other realm of information, whatever that is.

Alex Ferrari 37:08
So the the surprising part with the psychic mediums, and by the way, is there a difference between psychic and medium, like, when they're doing predictions versus Talking to a loved one or someone on the other side,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 37:19
Usually, right? I mean, like, not all the time, and that's interesting too, because some of the psychic mediums I've talked to, and I'm sure you've run into this, that for them, it's a little bit of a blend. It's kind of like, well, it's kind of like a little bit of both, and it's not really clear sometimes to distinguish one from the other. But then, you know, for other people, it's very clear. And you know, probably the best case that I've got that really demonstrates this is Laura Lynn Jackson, which, you know, you might be familiar with her. You know, she's great, and we've worked together for a long time, but her brain is very interesting, because she has a very distinct way of perceiving psychic versus mediumship information. So literally, she says she sees psychic information in her left visual field, and she sees mediumship information in her right visual field, yeah. And so when I measured her brain, it showed exactly that, because the way it shows up in the brain, visual information crosses over and shows up on the opposite side of the occipital lobe, where it gets processed. And so we saw that first off, that corresponded to what she was, you know, talking about, in the way she perceives things. But the other thing that was interesting is her brain was much more active in a psychic reading, so there was big increases of gamma. In particular, you know, the frontal lobe quieted down a little bit, but it was in the back of the head, there was just this huge increase of gamma, whereas with the mediumship reading, the only thing that increased was slow brainwaves. So gamma didn't increase at all. It was just theta and delta, and the frontal lobe shut down completely. Everything just dropped out of the frontal lobe. So the mediumship looked very different than the psychic reading. And so, you know, she was a great example, because it's so distinct for her that it made it really easy to see this, this differentiation. Now, I don't know if that's gonna be true for everybody. It's not always that clear, right? But you know, certainly in some circumstances we see, you know that they certainly appear to be different things in terms of the way the brain is processing it.

Alex Ferrari 39:32
Now, so we talked about psychic mediums. What about channelers? Have you had a channeler on under, under the under the QEEG?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 39:42
Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, the the one I've had a couple, but the most recent one, and the one that I'm probably the most impressed with, her name's T Asha Dorlay, and she's in Slovenia. And so I went out there. I went out there and, you know, just. Ran down the street. So I went and hung out there for a few days, and we did a bunch of testing. And you know, she, I had never really met her before, before this experiment. And you know, she claims to be able to channel all kinds of different angels and guides and all kinds of things. And, you know, like, okay, sure, whatever. And what was interesting is that when we would do it, you know, she'd be sitting there, and just this wisdom would just be, like, coming out of her, right? I mean, she's just, I mean, just like you said, they were like, man, okay, like,

Alex Ferrari 40:36
There's no way she memorized this.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 40:37
No, no. It's like, it's like, Okay, I can't prove that that's, you know, Angel, whatever, but it's like, but whatever you're saying that's like, profound stuff, right? And what was interesting is that every single time she did A a channeling, reading, and we did a bunch of them over the course of several days, her every one of her brain waves dropped out, everything, uh, delta, theta, alpha, beta, gamma, everything. Just like, boom. So it was almost as, like her entire brain just like, shut down. Shuts down, yeah, you know. But yet, she's sitting here spouting out this wisdom, right? So very interesting, because it's like, okay, clearly she's not thinking about any of this, you know.

Alex Ferrari 41:18
So that's, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point to make, because according to the scan of the brain, there's no activity, meaning that

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 41:28
There's some activity,

Alex Ferrari 41:30
But no, but not at the level. If we're at 100 maybe it was down to 20 or 15, yeah, so there's, there's something, but to be able to be talking that much, it should be up to 90 or 100 essentially, right?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 41:43
For sure, and especially if she were, like, thinking and processing, or, you know, trying to articulate, you know, I mean, when you're explaining something, right? Like, your brain is very active, uh, and you know. And this happened every single time, and you know. And she would say, like that, she basically has no awareness of what she says, right? Like she's, you know, she comes out and she's kind of, like, How'd that go? Right? Like she, you know, she has no idea. And so, you know, and her whole nervous system, because we did some other measurements as well on her physiology, and she got way more relaxed, you know, like all of her metrics, like, super relaxed, you know, she'd have the smile on her face and just, you know, but like no activity, like nothing and so to me, that was very interesting, because the only other time I've seen anything resembling that was two, two times. One time was with my very first Qigong teacher. This was, this was so long ago that I didn't even know what I was looking at, you know? But this is many years later, thinking back, you know, I hooked him up. It's probably my very first EEG machine, right? And, and what I expected was to see all this alpha, because at the time, that's what we thought meditation was, was, it was all alpha. And instead, his EEG, just like, dropped out. There was, there was nothing there. And, and I was like, I was like, What the hell happened? Right now, I understand from where I'm sitting now, right? But what's interesting is when I would ask him, like, Well, where did you go? Like, what, what were you doing? Right? And he's like, you know, he was into shamanic stuff too, right? And he's like, I go to the void, right? It's just like, you know? And it's like, okay, that was his term. And then the only other time I've seen something like that was actually with an expert biodynamic craniosacral therapy healer, and it's kind of an energy healing modality. But, you know, kind of at the height of the experience for him, when he was doing a healing session, you know, that's where I saw basically everything dropped out. And I was like, what were you doing? And he was like, you know, basically described, kind of a non dual, you know, kind of just completely open, receptive, nothing, like basically nothing in the field, just kind of this vast emptiness. And so it's like, Okay, interesting. So the only times I've seen that is when people are basically able to completely get their own self out of the way, you know. So the brain waves seem to look similar, even though they're doing something slightly different, you know, each of them, you know, I think the overlap is that somehow, you know, that was their strategy to remove, to remove the self is just shut the whole system down.

Alex Ferrari 44:34
So it's very interesting that, again, across multiple different disciplines you're seeing same thing, you need to shut down the self, not throw it away or anything, but just quiet it to a point where you can then access other things. And it goes across multiple modalities, not just psychic mediums, not a channel list, but Qigong, meditation, psychedelic. Looks all of them are doing the same thing. So is that the main from your research is that the biggest factor you see from people blocking their own psychic development is the inability to quiet the self to a point where they can then open the door to be able to or the conduit to be able to get the information?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 45:21
Yeah, I would say, if we had to, if we had to boil it down, right? I'd say, you know, yes, kind of the internal chatter, you know, that sort of interferes, you know, the other thing that I've seen a lot of and, you know, this taps into some of the other work that I do, right, like combining meditation with neurofeedback, so we can kind of see what's happening in the brain and use that to kind of coach people into certain meditative states. Is the sort of issue of non efforting, right? Which is a big, you know, it's kind of a main point in meditation practices. But I think, I think it applies to psi abilities too Right? Like, if you try too hard. It doesn't work, right? There's this weird space that you have to be in where, certainly, you're trying, you're paying attention, there's there's an intention to what you're doing, but you have to do it in a way where it like, feels natural. You know, where it feels like, yeah, this effortless. It's effortless. This is just what I'm doing, right? And so what I see a lot of times with people is, especially, you know, really eager to develop their skills, is they're kind of trying too hard, right? You know, it's like a paradox, right, you know? And so it's like, it's like one of those Taoist riddles, right? It's like, you know, try, but don't try kind of a thing, right? You know,

Alex Ferrari 46:39
Do or do not. There is no try. Sorry, I always got to bring Yoda. I was like, Yoda's behind me right now, you gotta,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 46:48
You know, is it Yoda or Grogu?

Alex Ferrari 46:52
No, no, it was Yoda, sir, it was Yoda and there is no Grogu. It's baby Yoda. Let's just clear that right now, I don't care this Grogus, horrible name. It's baby Yoda. Oh. Yeah, what you're also talking about seems to be that they need to get into the what they call the flow, just like athletes get into the flow. It's doing without thinking, and that's when you reach your highest abilities. In music, in art, any artist, any writer, any painter, when they are in the flow, they aren't thinking or trying, it's effortless, but it's so difficult to get to that place, because you need to learn to quiet the self. It happens accidentally. Sometimes, I think all of us have felt the flow at one point or another when you're doing something you really love because of the love and the attention you're giving something. I remember I was editing my first commercial back in the day when I was coming up and I was editing my first direct. I directed something. It was my first and I literally sat in the edit room upstairs in this edit suite for 12 hours. No, I mean, I didn't eat. I just it just like, I don't even think. I went to the bathroom. All of a sudden I looked down. I'm like, I've been here for 12 hours. It was so it was surreal to me. I was like, because I was so focused, so in it, I was absolutely in the flow. I was just kind of like, not even thinking. I'm like, Oh my God, I wish I could be that all the time, but that's what, but that's what meditation teaches you, Qigong, tai chi, all these other kind of modalities to do that on a calmer way. Psychedelics do it in another way. And this is what psychics and mediums and channelers need to learn in order to access their abilities. Would you agree?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 48:38
Yeah, I would. And you know what's interesting? You know, kind of like tying it, tying it into brain waves. So one of the brain waves that's associated with being in a flow state is gamma, that really fast brain wave. And it's interesting, because you would think that, yeah, exactly right. You know, it's kind of like, wait a minute, you know, like, if it's a really fast brain wave, it's like, well, aren't you like thinking and trying and pushing? And it's like, Well, that's true with, like, beta and high beta, but when you get above that to gamma, this interesting thing happens, where gamma will spike and burst when you are engaged in a high level integration of information, but without trying. So this is why you'll see gamma and things like, you know, these Tibetan monks that they measure while they're doing a compassion meditation. It's like, why are we seeing gamma, right? Like, that's a really fast brain wave. It's like, well, because they can enter a compassionate state, a deep, heavy compassion state, without trying. They don't have to try to do that, right? It's like, second nature. And so, you know, so we do see these gammas show up. And what's interesting is, that's what we see, mostly with the psychic stuff, you know, in the back of the head, you know, in the occipital lobes, where you're processing visual information, gamma. That's the the I mean, and that's, again, not 100% but let's call it 80% Uh, you know of the time when people are doing a psychic reading, and so it's interesting, right? Because it's like, well, what's going on back there? Certainly there's activation. But it also suggests that maybe they're integrating information, you know, in this very effortless way, which may be why we're seeing that that gamma as well.

Alex Ferrari 50:18
But let me ask you this, do you believe that, that when you're saying the gamma is a higher frequency, meaning that it's like a faster frequency, according to the spiritual practices and the spiritual research I do, in order to reach enlightenment, you must raise your vibration. You must raise your frequency higher so because slower frequencies are more grounded in the three dimensional world where higher frequencies you start to access, the higher the frequency you start to access the other side. Hence, a lot of the spiritual masters have said this. Even living spiritual masters, and also masters who only died within this last century, who we have video of, we have film of, would say things like that. That kind of rings true with what you were just saying,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 51:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I started smiling immediately when you started down this path, because I knew where you're going, or at least I thought I knew where you were, yeah, and I was right. But so it's interesting, right? Because, you know, we talked about the flow aspects of gamma. But there's some other interesting research with gamma that shows that it's associated with things like lucid dreaming, right? And it's associated with psychedelic states, right? So even though I said everything drops out, everything drops out except gamma,

Alex Ferrari 51:40
And even on the even with the channelers and the psychics and some of them, they will drop everything except gamma.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 51:46
They drop everything, right? Okay, like channelers that I was talking about, they drop everything but, but in the psychedelic states, everything drops out except gamma, and that'll increase. They've seen gamma bursts at the moment of death. This has been documented in two different humans and also in like rat studies, like at the moment of death, there's this huge burst of gamma.

Alex Ferrari 52:09
So which makes it makes sense, right?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 52:11
So it seems like gamma is also associated with, you know, I call it expanded states. I don't know what else to call it, right? So it does seem like gamma may be related to this higher vibration kind of a thing. And what's interesting, it was with a lot of the psychic mediums, I was trying not to over complicate this, right? Because it's tricky doing this in this format, right? I can't put up a slide deck or something and show everything, but one of the things you'll see very frequently is that simultaneously, you might see an increase of slow brain waves and gamma. It's almost like the slowest and the fastest both show up together. And it's very interesting, because what at least my interpretation at the moment, is that the slow brain waves allow people to dive into this state of, you know, kind of the subconscious field, right? But then you gotta have some way to, sort of like, you know, bring it in and bring it down and and integrate it and do something with it. So it's almost like many of them. It's kind of like they're, they're walking both sides. It's super common that we'll see this, where the slowest and the fastest both show up, and the stuff in the middle just kind of in doing anything. And so, you know, it's very interesting, you know, but I do think there's something to that with the sort of raising your vibration thing.

Alex Ferrari 53:36
That's, yeah, because it just again, from my from my research and what I've been doing, it's I keep seeing these common denominators across all different fields, all different types of people I've spoken to that they just keep within nature, even within, you know, I've spoken to quantum physicists, rocket scientists, psychic mediums, channel I've spoken to everything in between. And this kind of these commonalities keep coming in. So when I hear things like that, I'm like, oh, that's this, yeah, there seems to be a blueprint for this, and we're just still trying to remember it. I believe that we did know it at one point or another, and many of the ancients would have even known about it, by the way. Have you studied anything in regards to ancient you know more of the ancient peoples, ancient cultures in regards to this kind of stuff, and did they ever you know now we're getting into the esoteric. It's not as much the science aspect, but on your just in your general research, have you gone down those roads of what might have debated text said about certain things like this, or about channeling mediums and things like that.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 54:46
You know, I mean, years and years ago I was kind of like getting into some of that stuff. And one of the problems with the way my brain works is it's kind of like, out of sight, out of mind, right? Like, it's like, sure, at some point I probably could speak intelligently. About that, but, but probably not today.

Alex Ferrari 55:04
Fair enough. Now we've been focusing a lot on the psychic medium aspect of things and a little bit on the channeling but is the term psi phenomenon. There are a few other modalities in there, if you will. For me, the psychic medium and the channel is not weird. I just know so many of them, but there's, there's two others in there that I can think of that I'd love to hear what you've done research on telekinesis. Yeah, there's remote viewing, and there's also energy healing. So out of though, let's just jump into telekinesis. What's your ex? Because now we're now, we're getting into another world. Now we're getting into, you know, Stephen King land, what is your experience with telekinesis? And have you studied someone who says they can do it? You actually saw it and put them under the EEG and see what would happen.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 56:01
I'm personally super interested in telekinesis, or psychokinesis, you know, like the, you know, most people kind of use the terms interchangeably. And, and for me, that's been one of my own personal interests, right? Because, you know, you can't, kind of be a researcher in these areas and not dabble yourself, right? And, and my own personal strengths seem to be more in psychokinesis and energy healing, more so than some of the other stuff, even though, you know, I think I can touch on to some of those myself every once in a while. But so I've always had an interest in psychokinesis, you know, sort of moving things with your mind. And there's really kind of two different ways of approaching it, right? So one is kind of the macro psychokinesis, macro PK, which is, you know, moving things that you can see. So that's what we always, you know? So, back to Star Wars, right? You know, Yoda, of course, X Wing fighter out of the day. Go by swamp, right? You know,

Alex Ferrari 56:57
You're nerd. Go ahead.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 57:00
That's fair. That's fair.

Alex Ferrari 57:02
Hey, hey, I've got, I have a life size Yoda in my office. It's all good,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 57:05
You know? So when we think of psychokinesis, that's what we think of, right? Or some of these other movies, or, you know, you know, the X Men, or something like that, where you can kind of move things. Now, the way it's usually practiced, right, is like rolling a ping pong ball on a table with your mind, or, you know, spinning a little tin foil pinwheel that's balanced on a nail, right, like in getting it to move just by focusing on it. So I'll get to some of the science here in a minute. But so then the the micro PK, which is what is mostly researched, is looking at very, very small things that you can't see with the naked eye. You have to kind of measure statistically, and so usually that's done with looking at a random number generator. So it's just a machine that's kicking out ones and zeros in the background randomly, and they've got quantum ways to make sure it's truly random. So it's spitting out ones and zeros in the background. And of course, if those are the two options and it's truly random, you should end up with 50% zeros and 50% ones, or really close to that. And so they've devised lots and lots of research saying, well, if somebody focuses on one of these devices and says, I want there to be more ones. Can you statistically make more ones just by focusing on it? And that data is ridiculously obvious. I mean, it's clear. The answer is yes. You know you can. You know we can do this right, like we can. We can manipulate matter with our consciousness, and so I've been playing around a lot with that kind of research, because it's much easier to do research on that than somebody moving something right. You have to control so many elements to make sure that there's not a little breeze in the room, or somebody didn't accidentally breathe on the thing or whatever, you know, but the micro PK is very interesting, and there have been a couple of studies. This guy named Friedman put out a study last year, I think it was last year, and then I kind of did a similar study recently, just with a small group, but in both of the cases, the one that Friedman did in my little, small study, what we did was use technology to inhibit the left frontal lobe so kind of zap the brain in such a way that you shut down the left frontal lobe temporarily. And what, what we found in our research, and what Friedman found is that people did better on a micro PK task, if you could shut down that left frontal lobe. And so again, it's like more evidence that the brain actually gets in the way. It's actually inhibiting these abilities, and if you can quiet it down, then people do better. I. And so the other part of your question was, have I ever been able to brain map somebody, or seen this myself? And, you know, I've had a couple of really good subjects for this, people who are very skilled, but trying to arrange getting a brain map on people is tricky. And one of the things about PK in particular, and they'll all say this. They're like, you know, it's very fussy, right? So, like, if you feel stressed, if you feel anxious, if you feel under pressure to perform, it almost kind of kills it, right? And so it's

Alex Ferrari 1:00:32
Like, okay, like any skill, like almost any skill, if you feel that, you know, it's in it, it goes back to the flow. To be the optimate, you have to be in the flow. But if you feel pressure, you're in thinking about it. You're inside your own head. You're building it up. You're done. It's done.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:00:47
Right! Yeah, you know, this guy's sitting here measuring my brain waves with a camera, and he's, you know, I have to perform. You know? It's like, okay, not the ideal circumstances. But I did do an experiment with Caroline. Corey. Caroline, yeah, if you know, Caroline. And so I went down and visited her and hooked her up and had her do a little PK test. So we put a pinwheel under, you know, some sort of a glass bowl or something, so that there weren't any influences. And, you know, and you know, she was able to get it to move some, you know. And you know, we're able to look at her brainwave activity when she was doing that. And there was a difference between when, you know, kind of successful PK moments and non PK moments. And you know, there was a couple of different things that were that were interesting, you know, not surprisingly, you know, quieting down the frontal lobes again, you know, you sort of see that. Not a huge surprise. The one thing that I thought was very interesting, though, was there's a specific part of the brain called the fusiform gyrus that, you know, when I looked at that specifically, kind of like the channelers, every brain wave quieted way down in this part of the brain, just this one part of the brain, and it's like, well, what in the world is that is going on there? And that also happens to be the part of the brain involved in synesthesia, which is synesthesia, is, is like, where you mix your senses, so, you know, like you might hear colors, or, you know, whatever, right, there's, you know, it's a condition that some people have

Alex Ferrari 1:02:37
You mean, you can hear red,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:02:38
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, yeah, you know. So it's like your senses get mixed up, right? And so and, and there seems to be some evidence that people with synesthesia are actually more psychically tuned in. And so it's interesting that this part of the brain, everything got really quiet there. And, you know, for me, I'm like, Well, I'm not sure what that means exactly. But then, when I talked to Caroline about her experience, you know, she was really talking about this way of connecting to the target, where it was like this. I don't even know if I can articulate it, but almost like a it wasn't a logical part of the brain, right? It was more like an energetic feeling, sense of being connected to this other thing. And so it makes me wonder if there's not some connection between what we saw in that part of the brain and that feeling state of, sort of, you know, some, some of some PK people will talk about it as empathy or, you know, or just a connection to the target. But it's like, you know, maybe in that state, some of these distinctions between sight, sound, touch, whatever, don't really exist, right? It's more just the essence of what it is. You know, I'm extrapolating. I don't know that that's exactly what was going on, but it was pretty interesting. So obviously, I need more data for that type of work.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:03
There was, I remember watching Deepak Chopra on Oprah, I mean, decades ago, and he was, he was trying to put, he was trying to talk about how your mind does affect you, can control the world around you and affect by your consciousness, by your your intention, where you focus. And he had a string. I don't know if you've ever done that, the string with something at the bottom of it, yeah. And you could just literally, it's being held by by either someone else or by something, and by you going, Okay, I want it to swing to the left, and all of a sudden it just starts slowly going to the left. It's a very small, lightweight way to start, as opposed to, like, I need to take this mouse and throw it against the wall, Stephen King style, or X Men style. That's a lot more complicated. Yeah, but yes, just these smaller things, like the tin foil thing that you were talking about. Have you done that before? And have you done any research like that?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:04:04
You know, I mean, I've played around with that kind of stuff. I haven't really done so for me, what I when I tried to do it, I was like, I want to see if I can do this right, right? And, and, you know, I was able to, you know, spin a pinwheel. I got really good at it, where I could just sit down and just make the thing just start going almost immediately, you know, and not even just like a little wiggle, but like full circles and, you know. And I was like, okay, okay, so then I upped the ante, right? I was like, Okay, now I'm gonna put a glass case over the top to make sure. Even though I was, I thought I was being pretty careful, right, you know, but I was like, Okay, I'm gonna make sure that there's nothing and and then it was like, starting from zero, you know, as soon as I put that glass bowl, bowl over, over it, it was like, Oh my God. Like, I cannot get this thing to move at all. Eventually I was able to get it to move. But one of my conclusions just, and this is just my own experiment, right? Like it wasn't like a big scientific thing, but my own conclusion was that it was my own mind, right? It was my belief that was getting in the way. Because when I put the bowl on it for it seemed like this is going to be way harder. Now, how am I going to get this to move? There's a glass bowl in my way, right? Like it feels different. Yeah, it's in your head, right? And it's like, okay, none of that matters. But it does matter, because psychologically, it matters. And so I think it's the same thing with something big or small, right? Like, theoretically, it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter if it's an X Wing fighter or if it's a, you know, a piece of string. It shouldn't matter, but, but in the mind, it makes a difference, because, like, oh, that's big and heavy. I can't move that. You know, this is a little string. No big deal. I can. I can maybe move that. And so to me, it's very interesting, where I think it really gets into the psychology of it, like, somehow you have to start with things that you can convince yourself are possible, and then, you know, slowly, kind of work your way up, you know, just to be able to manage it.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:39
Well, that's the the brilliance of ignorance in many ways. Or youth. When you're young, I could do anything. There is no possible, like if I could start a company right now, it's going to be a billion. When you're our age. We have a lifetime of crap that we're carrying with us, and we're like, we can't start a bit if we do this, this is what this is what could happen. And this is what could happen. This was going to happen. Like, with my kids, I can see five steps ahead of, like, what is potentially going to happen to them. You know, I think as a parent, you kind of figured those things out, like, one or two steps away they're going to kill themselves. I need to, I need to get them out of that situation thing. But that's but that's the case with a lot of with a lot of people, it is trying to, again, it's the thing that we've been talking about this entire conversation, calming the mind, to release the ego, and believing that with specifically with the telekinesis, believing that's even possible. And we'll go back to Yoda, and an Empire Strikes Back where he's Luke's trying to lift it up, but he's in his own head, and he goes, that's impossible. Well, you've already failed. You failed already because you think it's impossible. And then this little guy comes in and just goes, crank, crank, crank. He goes, this is, this is why you fail. You know, George Lucas was so spiritual. I mean, so much going on, but, but that's, but that's a really key lesson is about letting go of that stuff. Now let's dive into energy healing. Because energy healing, you also have a lot of experience with energy healing scientifically, or what kind of research have you done with energy healing? Because, again, it sounds crazy, as crazy as throwing, you know, moving something with your mind. You're gonna put your hands over me. I'm gonna heal. Like, what kind of ridiculousness is this? So as a doctor, as a doctor, so as a professional, how did you go down this road, the research of it?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:04:39
Yeah, so, I mean, you know, my own personal experience of how I ended up kind of down this road was, you know, back to my beginning Qigong practice. So when I first got into Qigong, I really didn't even know what it was, you know, this was like the early 90s in the middle of Missouri.

Alex Ferrari 1:04:39
So huge Qigong community there,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:04:39
Huge Qigong community, right? And, and so I found this guy that was teaching a little Qigong class at a, you know, interfaith church space thing, you know. And so I started going there, and I didn't know what Qigong was, and so I just accepted whatever he taught as being Qigong. But this is the same guy that I measured his brain, right? And everything kind of flattened out. Yeah, but little did I know at the time, he was mixing in all kinds of stuff. He was mixing in all kinds of energy healing stuff and and shamanic stuff. And I thought it was all just Qigong, because I didn't know the difference. And so, you know, my very introduction to that work involved energy healing, and it was just kind of like part of the thing. And so, you know, I started feeling the Chi, feeling the energy, you know, being able to, kind of, like, have these experiences where, you know, sending energy to somebody else, and they're picking up the same kind of vibe that I'm putting down, you know, kind of a thing where, you know, like, if I was, you know, internally imagining sending, like, roots under the earth, you know, to come up healing roots, to come up and meet with them, and connect with them, to provide grounding and healing, or something like that. And then after, and they didn't know, but then afterwards, they'd be like, I kept getting images of, like, trees and being like, you know, and it's like, okay, this is interesting, right? Like, there's something, something cool is going on here. And so then, you know, later. So I was always interested in that, and I felt like it was something that kind of resonated for me. It just kind of made sense, you know, just kind of felt natural. But then my first real exploration of it was actually with Pranic Healing, which is a hands off energy healing practice, so you're not putting your hands on anybody, but you're, you know, you're, you're kind of

Alex Ferrari 1:11:24
Like reeking the kind of, like a Reiki, a Reiki, excuse me, Reiki, kind of vibe, um,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:11:29
kind of, except this is, you know, a person's not laying on a table, and you're not actually touching them, so it's more at a distance, you know, I mean, usually in the same room, but so, you know, you're kind of like sweeping the Energy. It actually reminds me a lot of external Qi healing and Qigong, where, you know, you might be sweeping the energy around the person, kind of clearing it that way, and then, you know, kind of directing energy with your hands or whatever, and, you know, circling it and into certain chakras and whatever. And so we did a little tiny study. I got roped into this. I actually didn't even want to do it, but the person that kept bringing it up like was very insistent and tenacious, and so eventually talked me into it. I was like, Sure, fine. Well, you know, we'll do this. And she was a product healer. And so we set up this little small study where we brought four different people in that had some sort of a pain issue. I don't remember if it was specific to a certain area or what it was, but pain was their dominant complaint, and so we brought them into the office two times, and we'd hook them up to the EEG and do the whole thing. And each time they came in, they would be facing, kind of the front of the room, and the healer would be standing behind them, so they couldn't see the healer. And again, it's there's no touch involved, so it's just movements and intention and things like that. And so one time they they would come in, and the healer would just stand back there and basically just hang out, you know, and and every once while, make some movements or something, just so that they didn't get the impression that this was the placebo, right? But, but basically they weren't doing anything. They were just kind of standing there, and then the other time they came in, they would actually do a healing session. And so we kind of alternated what order we did that in, and we did it with all four people. And what was interesting is that, you know, the brain wave changes in the healing sessions were dramatically different than the placebo sessions. And so, you know, again, that was, for me, it was very interesting that it was like, okay, something is happening, right? So the people that are receiving the healing, something is happening. Some of them were more dramatic than others, right? You know, I mean, you know, some people's brains might just change a little bit. Some people, it was like crazy, you know, how much their brain would shift? And, you know, for me, this kind of there's, there's two things that were interesting. One, that we could demonstrate that this was different than just placebo, and it wasn't just relaxing, right? Because they were sitting there for the same amount of time, same chair, same office, you know, same instructions. But the other thing that was interesting was that the participants that we had are kind of similar to what we've talked about before. None of their brains change the same way. So even though all of their brains changed, there wasn't, like, a consistent pattern. And again, initially I was kind of like, like, man, what am I supposed to do with this data? It's all over the place, right? You know? But again, the more I started thinking about it, it was like, well, actually, this makes sense. Like, these are all different people. They're going to respond to the healing differently. So why would your brain change the same way my brain is going to change, you know, that actually makes less sense, you know, then, then, you know, showing these individual differences. So, you know, it's only a pilot study, but I think the results were compelling enough to sort of point to the idea that, yeah, this is real. Something real is going on here.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:56
There is there's a because we're talking. Talking about the mind and being able to do things with this mind. There's a parlor trick that I used to do as a young man. I haven't done this in years, but I don't know if you've ever seen anything like this, even in your Qigong practice, but because you were talking about the roots, and like when you visualize roots coming out of your feet going into the ground. Trying to lift you, like two guys, trying to lift you is almost nearly impossible, like you shouldn't. Two guys that should easily be able to lift a man of your weight can't. All of a sudden, that's a little parlor trick. The one I used to do was I go, I would put my arm out, and I'd go grab and I'd get the strongest, most muscle bound guy I could find at the party, yeah, and, and I'm like, I bet, I bet you can't. You can't bend my arm. And they would laugh. They're like, hahaha, you, of course I can. I'm like, All right, let's try it. And at first, I'm just going to do it with my muscle, and I would really strengthen it. And they would try, and then, boom, they'd knock me, because they're much stronger than me. I go, Okay, now give me a second. And I would just settle for a second. God, I haven't done this in years. You're bringing this stuff up in me, Jeff. And I would pretend, in my mind, I would focus that my arm is a steel pipe with 1000s of gallons of water flowing through it. And once I did that, take me 10 or 15 seconds. Once I got it to that point, I'm like, Okay, try now. And these guys could not bend my arm, if their life depended on it. And I've had, I've had serious, I mean, serious dudes like and they were just like, What the hell are you doing? And I'm like, you know, I'm using the Force. What do you want?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:16:49
What do you think I'm doing? Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 1:16:52
Exactly. But have you, have you kind of played around with that? Have you seen that kind of abilities to be I mean, that's a small parlor trick. There's like those are light as a feather. That old, the old one, usually as a kid, you know, you get four. I remember it was like four, like two girls, two guys, and they're like, all right, light is the light. And all of them were focusing light as a feather, and they would just lift you up with two fingers on each like, under two knees and under two arms, and you just lift you right up in the air, kind of stuff. Have you played around with that? Have you experienced that as well?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:17:20
Yeah, you know, it's funny that you bring that up, because, yeah, same thing. Like, I haven't done those kinds of things in a long time, but, right? But, but there's a lot of Qigong exercises like that, you know, where you know kind of sinking the Chi, right? Like, if you if you can sink your chi, using that terminology, yeah, it's like, you can't be moved, right? You know, like, you can, you know, people can come up and push you or knock you over, and it's like, nothing, right? You're just like, you're just like a mountain, you know? And what's interesting about that is kind of like the point that you made, you're not using your muscle, right? No, you know. So what are you using? So, what are you using? That's the question. That's the question. Yeah, right. So that's interesting, right? Because, you know, you know, clearly, intention, in that case, is stronger than your muscles, and so, you know, and it's a weird thing, right? Because, again, you know, in the Qigong world, you know, one of the lessons that I kept getting hammered into me was, you know, relax more, relax more. And I'd be like, Man, I can't, I can't relax anymore. I'm like, I'm as relaxed as I can get. And it's like, no, relax more. And it's like, okay, you know, but, but there's like, this idea that if you the more you relax, and if you don't have any tension, then the energy flows through the body much more fluidly, whereas if you tense the body, then you're sort of restricting the flow, right? And so the energy doesn't flow. And so, you know, if you can learn in the way that you use your body and use your intention to sort of allow that energy to be present in its full force, you know, I think that's what this suggests, right? Is that there's, there's some power there that either can be used internally, or if you can learn how to sort of work with it externally, and that's where it becomes healing, or even martial arts, right? You know, certain aspects of martial arts, of being able to externalize that energy that, you know, it can't all be just muscle, because, you know something, the one inch pipe, one inch punch, yeah, you know, you know, it's like, these are not big guys, you know, and but you know, the amount of force that they can generate with a one inch punch or something similar is ridiculous. It doesn't, doesn't make sense. You know, from a physics perspective,

Alex Ferrari 1:19:36
Jeff, I can talk to you for another four or five hours. This has been such an amazing conversation, brother. I'm going to ask you a few questions. I ask all my guests, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:19:48
Oh, okay. Oh, no.

Alex Ferrari 1:19:50
These are going to get deep. We're going to go deep here, sir. So prepare yourself.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:19:54
Okay, I should have prepared myself. It's yeah, living a fulfilled life. Yeah, that's a that's an interesting question. You know, it probably varies week to week and day to day, how I might answer that, but the first thing that came to my mind, which is what I'm going to go with, is learning. I want to say learning. I'll say being true to your nature. And that's also kind of a broad way of saying that, but I feel like one of the things that is really challenging is that we get trained through culture and through whatever else that we're supposed to be a certain way, look a certain way, act a certain way, even if that's not who we are. And so, you know, I feel like probably the most fulfilling way to live a life is to be like, can you figure out who you really are and just embrace that, right? If you're a weirdo, great, be a weirdo, right? Like, if you're not hurting somebody else, I don't care, do whatever you want to do, right? But it's like, you know, how do we find that right? Because it's almost like we have to, kind of, like we have to, kind of like, relearn some of that childhood stuff, right? Like, who, who were we as kids? Because, you know, most of the time, if we look back and it's like, oh, wow, I'm totally different now, and it's like, are you, or did it just get covered up with a bunch of other things that really are not that important? And so, you know. So at least for me, for this moment, I think the answer is getting back to that childlike, pure nature, and, you know, and living from that place.

Alex Ferrari 1:21:30
Now, speaking of childlike nature, if you had a chance to go back in time and speak to little Jeff, what advice would you give him?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:21:37
This sounds like a RuPaul intervention. What advice would I give him? Wow, it might be the exact same advice, right? You know, of what I was just saying that, yeah, you know, you know, I think I would say, you know, Hey, man, like, just do your thing. Like, don't worry about what other people think. Don't worry about, you know, just don't try to make other people happy. Just, you know, be true to yourself, be genuine, be kind, be loving, and the rest will fall into place.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:17
Now, what advice would little Jeff give you?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:22:21
Okay, what advice would little Jeff give me?

Alex Ferrari 1:22:23
Don't open the Star Wars toys. Keep them in the box.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:22:31
Oh, right, you know I had the Darth Vader, collectible head thing.

Alex Ferrari 1:22:35
Stop it. Stop it. My mom gave away all my Star Wars toys. Don't even get me started, sir.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:22:42
Yeah, I don't know where all my stuff went, but, but, yeah, don't open the Yeah, for sure. I'd probably say, you know, and this is talking to that part of me that is super skeptical, and at least was at various points, you know, I would say it's like, Hey, man, you know, this stuff is all real. Just embrace it, you know, and you know, and explore. You like, be curious and explore, and, you know, keep that child like, you know, response to things. Because, you know, I think that's where, I mean, I get in my own way with some of these things. I you know, I think, I think I do have some natural ability. I'm certainly not one of the rock star elite performers in this space. But, you know, I feel like all that conditioning is what has kind of, like prevented me from kind of developing it further, you know. And so it's like, I think that younger version of myself understood on some level, even though it didn't know how to do any of this stuff. I think it was, it knew, right? And so it's kind of like, you know, I think that's the advice it would give. Is like, stay connected to that stay connected to that openness,

Alex Ferrari 1:23:55
Fair enough. How do you define God or Source?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:23:59
Oh, Jesus,

Alex Ferrari 1:24:01
I told you, I warned you,

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:24:05
Oh, boy, okay. So I mean again, this definition probably is going to vary, you know, day to day, week to week, depending on, you know, what I what I think and what I feel about things. So for me, whatever you want to call it, God, source, whatever I mean, I feel like it's I feel like it's everything, and I'll see if I can articulate this, right, that the way I kind of perceive things, that my own belief system, my own experiences, you know, like, you know, Whatever is that, you know, there's sort of a field. We can call it a quantum field if you want, that exists out there where every possibility forget about time. Time isn't real. Forget about time. Every possibility that you could imagine, and even way beyond what you could imagine, all exists. It's all. All possible in this, this realm. And so, you know, and things are constantly manifesting and being destroyed and being changed, and everything's morphing and developing, and, you know, constantly and and I think that's what we are, right? We're this tiny, little speck within this field that's kind of gotten pulled down into this one little experience, and that's what's going on here. But what I think God is is all of that other stuff, that whole quantum process of change and energy is really what I think it all is,

Alex Ferrari 1:25:44
What is love? What is love? Don't hurt me.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:25:50
I think what I'm going to go with is selflessness,

Alex Ferrari 1:26:01
Beautiful, beautiful. Beautiful answer. If you could ask

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:26:05
That coming from me, one more to answer.

Alex Ferrari 1:26:07
If you could ask God or source one question, what would that question be?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:26:12
What is my purpose?

Alex Ferrari 1:26:16
Great question to ask, and which leads us to our final question, what is the ultimate purpose of this life?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:26:24
That one, I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to say, I don't know, because I that that is, for me. I think that is the perennial question, and why I would probably ask God, that question, right? It's kind of like, what, what is it I'm supposed to be doing here? Right? You know, like, and sometimes I feel like, I'll, I'll have a sense of that. But many times I feel like I really don't have a clue, you know, like, or is there a purpose, or is the purpose just to kind of, like, I said in that first answer, just to, like, be yourself, be a human. Have a human experience, like, there's no right or wrong answers. Just, just be a human. Just, you know, just do your thing. Uh, but honestly, I have no clue. And fair enough, if you figure that one out, please let me know. Because, okay, that's the question I want to know more than anything, probably.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:15
And where can people find out more about you and the amazing work you're doing in the world?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:27:19
Uh, there's, there's a couple of places. So we have a couple of websites. One is www.psychicmindscience.com, and that's gets into all this kind of stuff and some of the courses that we offer and using technology to develop your skills and things. The other one is www.neuromeditationinstitute.com, and that's pretty much what it sounds like, more about using meditative techniques, often with technology, but sometimes without, and kind of focused more on mental health. Since my background is a psychologist, you know, I can't help but weave that into some of the work I do.

Alex Ferrari 1:27:58
And do you have any parting messages for the audience?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:28:01
Yeah, I think, I think the advice that I would give is don't try so hard. So, I mean, I'm sort of joking, but not really, I mean, so I think that would be one thing, like, don't try so hard. I think the other thing that that I would say is practice right? Those almost sound contradictory, but I don't think they are right. It's like, I think the more we practice, the more comfortable we can get with these abilities. And so then we don't, we don't try so hard, it just feels more natural and easy. So practicing, don't try so hard, meditate or figure out some other way to start to quiet down that internal chatter, and probably use some sort of strategy to examine your limiting beliefs around these things and see if you can change those, because those obviously get in the way. So those are the big four, I guess.

Alex Ferrari 1:28:57
And Jeff, I have to ask you, we'll finish it off with this, my friend, after everything we've talked about all the researcher, as a doctor, as a scientist, as as a researcher, is this stuff real man? From your point of view?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:29:13
Yeah, that's that's an easier question. So the short answer is, yes, yeah, this stuff is real. You know, it's not always mind blowing, it's not always consistent, but it's real. I mean, both just from my own personal experience of what I've seen, but also from the research. The research is very clear. You wouldn't know it from mainstream media, but when you really get in there and look at it. There's no doubt that this stuff is real.

Alex Ferrari 1:29:46
Jeff, it has been absolute pleasure talking to you, my friend. Thank you so much for being the brave soul that does this kind of research and is putting this out in the world. Man, I appreciate you and everything you're doing to help awaken this planet, my friend. So thank you again for being on the show.

Dr. Jeff Tarrant 1:31:30
Thanks. I greatly appreciate it was a lot of fun.